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Log for #openttdcoop on 7th July 2010:
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05:45:21  <KyleS> !password
05:45:21  <PublicServer> KyleS: utters
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10:41:09  <V453000> hi people
10:42:57  <V453000> !dl win32
10:42:57  <PublicServer> V453000: http://binaries.openttd.org/nightlies/trunk/r20080/openttd-trunk-r20080-windows-win32.zip
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10:45:33  <V453000> !info
10:45:33  <PublicServer> V453000: #:1(Orange) Company Name: 'Coopers #188'  Year Founded: 1950  Money: 261603732  Loan: 0  Value: 261742616  (T:2, R:0, P:10, S:0) unprotected
10:45:36  <V453000> !password
10:45:36  <PublicServer> V453000: dented
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10:46:15  <PublicServer> <V453000> oh wow
10:46:20  <PublicServer> <V453000> totally nothing new :D
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10:54:01  <Lukeus_Maximus> !help
10:54:01  <PublicServer> Lukeus_Maximus: http://www.openttdcoop.org/wiki/IRC_Commands
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10:54:20  <Lukeus_Maximus> !password
10:54:20  <PublicServer> Lukeus_Maximus: dented
11:01:07  <Lukeus_Maximus> !password
11:01:07  <PublicServer> Lukeus_Maximus: fondly
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11:11:56  <VVG> I stumbled upon line syncing wiki page. It seems to point, that when using double bridges, you need to sync main line and secondary line. I don't get why there is need for that, since trains don't have any choice anyway, if they don't want to stop.
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11:14:27  <mrruben5> !password
11:14:27  <PublicServer> mrruben5: divers
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11:18:00  <Phazorx> VVG: could you give some details about what exatly you mean by line syncing?
11:18:54  <Vitus> I think he means syncing bridges
11:19:04  <Phazorx> Vitus: and what is that?
11:19:31  <Phazorx> something what we call "maintaining minimal gap"?
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11:19:48  <Vitus> Having both trains travel same distance so they don't interfere with eachother
11:20:06  <Phazorx> that's more or less general concern
11:20:19  <Phazorx> especially since we hav ever present FS:1063
11:23:29  <Barbaar> what is the current stage? still planning?
11:23:59  <mrruben5> stage is back up
11:24:08  <mrruben5> but not sure what that is supposed to mean
11:24:14  <Barbaar> that's why i'm asking :)
11:24:31  <Vitus> The server was down for some time :P
11:24:46  <Phazorx> !status
11:24:51  <Phazorx> !stat
11:24:53  <Phazorx> !stats
11:24:53  <PublicServer> Phazorx: use @coopstats
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11:30:22  <VVG> the gam might become shorter/wider if bridges are not in sync?
11:30:25  <VVG> gap*
11:33:44  <Mazur> It was at planning, then it crashed, and now it'ss back up.
11:34:15  <V453000> VVG: no
11:34:33  <V453000> the gap says how many bridges you need according to used train length
11:34:36  <V453000> but
11:34:39  <Mazur> VVG: If 2 bridges are not in sync, every other train gets hold up a second while the other clears its track.
11:35:09  <Mazur> On a full line.
11:35:12  <Phazorx> Mazur: might get to hold up
11:35:17  <Phazorx> if already at minimal spacing
11:35:20  <V453000> the sync says that no matter which bridge the train takes, both bridges are equally long in total path from the first split, to the final merge of the 2, 3, any bridges/tunnels
11:36:02  <Phazorx> VVG: in general we try to preserve speed of moving trains
11:36:16  <Phazorx> and at same time we like to pack as many train into same lane as we can
11:36:30  <Phazorx> together that creates a tighly packed train stream moving at same speed
11:36:35  <Mazur> V453000, and that the signalling over all bridges toegether work like a normal line.
11:36:51  <V453000> ...
11:36:57  <Phazorx> any difference in distance creates an issue where following train at some point runs into the end of previous one
11:37:07  <Phazorx> and if it does it will slow down or stop
11:37:37  <Phazorx> and since another train is following this one is also distanced by minimal interval it will also slowdown/stop
11:37:39  <Phazorx> and so one
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11:37:40  <Phazorx> so on
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11:38:03  <Phazorx> so any difference in distance (or as you call it sync problem) is a danger to line throughput in general
11:38:15  <Mazur> Anyway, we're two or three days into voting now.
11:38:16  <Phazorx> as it might cause whole line to stop
11:38:45  <V453000> Mazur: at least 5
11:38:47  <V453000> maybe 6
11:39:02  <Mazur> You're including planning.
11:39:18  <V453000> well lets say planning and voting is voting too
11:39:23  <Mazur> Or maybe you're right, I'm distracted by the footie and the cycling, anyway.
11:39:35  <V453000> I have been gone for 4 days
11:39:38  <V453000> so ... ;)
11:39:48  <mrruben5> ohhh footie :P
11:39:51  <Mazur> 5 days in planning.
11:39:53  <mrruben5> HOLLAND!!
11:40:09  <Mazur> What is this Holland placee you mention?
11:40:15  <Mazur> Show me on a map.
11:40:38  <mrruben5> It's next to germany :)
11:40:45  <hylje> you may find a Holland in a map but be sure that map is truly a fabrication
11:40:46  <mrruben5> you know it as the netherlands
11:40:47  <Yso> xD
11:40:52  <hylje> the truth is there is no Holland
11:40:55  <hylje> Holland is a hoax
11:41:06  <Mazur> Not really, it's a history.
11:41:19  <mrruben5> Holland are actually two provinces in the netherlands, but dutch people seem to be using it as a synonim to the name of our country
11:41:22  <hylje> the people who tell you of Holland are just covering up that they were scammed into traveling to Holland
11:41:24  <Mazur> Hasn't been a Holland there since 1815, mrruben5
11:41:32  <mrruben5> yup
11:41:32  <hylje> which, as you know, is a hoax
11:41:53  <mrruben5> Holland is not a hoax :P
11:42:52  <Mazur> The nation has only been called "The Kingdom of Holland" for about 5 years, when Napoleon wanted to rule the world.
11:42:59  <mrruben5> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holland_%28disambiguation%29
11:43:00  <Webster> Title: Holland (disambiguation) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (at en.wikipedia.org)
11:43:04  <Mazur> Never before, never thereafer.
11:43:20  <mrruben5> In English (but also in Dutch and German), "Holland" is informally used as a name for the whole of the Netherlands. This informal use is reinforced by the Dutch Tourist Board (VVV) who refer to the Netherlands as Holland in its English Language Literature and on their main website, Holland.com.
11:43:39  <Mazur> Still wrong.
11:44:29  <mrruben5> Might be wrong, but you can't deny the fact that a lot of people use it as a synonim
11:44:46  <mrruben5> But we dutch people are weird like that, just look at our language.
11:44:59  <hylje> the fun thing with conventions is a million people in the wrong make a right
11:45:24  <Mazur> Only because most of the sailors and ships came from hte province of Holland back when Holland ruled half the world, doesn;t mean the nation is Holland.
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11:46:08  <Mazur> hylje, actually, they don't.
11:47:55  <Mazur> And football fans are not the kind of people I'd call upon foir justification of anything.
11:48:16  <Mazur> Except that alcohol might make one drunk.
11:48:22  <mrruben5> So where do you live then mazur?
11:48:30  <Mazur> The Netherlands.
11:48:48  <Mazur> Leiden, to be more precise.
11:49:57  <mrruben5> you don't like dutch soccer a lot, I guess
11:50:07  <Mazur> There's a region called "Holland" in east Anglia, but I do not think they have a team in the worldcup.
11:50:19  <VVG> That holdup before non-synced bridges, does it also happen with presignals?
11:50:21  <Mazur> You guess wrong.
11:50:43  <Mazur> Yes, VVG, because one bridge will clear slower than the other.
11:50:57  <mrruben5> then I don't understand your stance about the use of the word Holland
11:51:16  <Mazur> It's erroneuous.
11:51:29  <Mazur> Try calling a scotsman "English" and see what happens.
11:51:34  <Mazur> It's the same thing.
11:51:52  <Yso> but isn't Leiden in Holland?
11:51:55  <Mazur> Ask a Frisian if he's from Holland, for instance.\
11:52:12  <Mazur> Nope, because Holland ceased to exist as such in 1815.
11:52:20  <VVG> Hmm. Each diagonal part counts as one tile?
11:52:26  <Mazur> It's in South-Holland, now.
11:52:31  <Phazorx> VVG: not realy
11:52:37  <Phazorx> it counts differently actually
11:52:41  <Mazur> VVG: Nope, as half of one.
11:52:48  <Phazorx> Mazur: not true as well
11:52:48  <Yso> i don't get it, so zuid-holland isnt holland?
11:52:57  <VVG> eh?
11:52:57  <Mazur> Correct, Yso.
11:53:01  <Yso> k
11:53:10  <Phazorx> VVG: there is an ancient bug
11:53:16  <Mazur> The Zuid- part is a clue, there.
11:53:21  <VVG> oh
11:53:38  <Phazorx> visualy and train legth-wise one diagon tile is equals to 2 half tiles and 1 straight tile
11:53:40  <Mazur> South-Korea is not the same as "Korea", either.
11:53:42  <VVG> Not taking that bug into account, diagonal part counts as a half tile?
11:53:52  <Phazorx> and if you talk about speed and traveled distance it is actually 0.75 tiles
11:54:13  <Mazur> Hlaaf the square-root of 2, actually.
11:54:24  <Phazorx> Mazur: should be but it isnt
11:54:32  <Phazorx> Mazur/VVG refer to http://bugs.openttd.org/task/1063
11:54:54  <Mazur> WHat moron coded that, then?
11:55:02  <Phazorx> VVG: well you cant NOT take that bug into an account
11:55:11  <Phazorx> since it affects the matter of your question greatly
11:55:30  <Phazorx> Mazur: Chriss Sawyer back in 1991
11:56:01  <Mazur> And he hardcoded 0.75?
11:56:12  <Phazorx> Mazur: in half of places yes
11:56:14  <VVG> ahha, now i aget it. before i thought diagonals were half a tile, so by plain counting i could't see how syncing would matter, if distances are the same
11:56:17  <Phazorx> and other half is hardcoded 1
11:56:35  <Mazur> It's the millennium bug all over again, only without an excuse.
11:56:58  <hylje> north korea is best korea
11:57:06  <Phazorx> the most disturbing to me is that devs wont aknowlegde that as a bug
11:57:24  <Phazorx> and wont fix it becase it would be a cheat for money earned at diagonal travel
11:57:53  <Mazur> Which would be lost by added travel time, if coded right.
11:58:10  <Mazur> mateurs.
11:58:12  <Mazur> +A
11:58:27  <hylje> les mateureux
11:58:30  <Phazorx> Mazur: yup and i suggested to ruby add the tile counter for diag tailes per train to deal with income
11:58:37  <Phazorx> and the answer was a NO
11:58:54  <VVG> thanks for clarifying things for me
11:59:05  <Mazur> If I didn;t have the attention span of a bonobo in heat, I'd deal with it.
11:59:08  <Vitus> Just a question: isn't the cargo payment calculated from manhattan distance already?
11:59:23  <Phazorx> Mazur: please do... it's a pain to deal with
11:59:27  <Mazur> Manhattan distance?
11:59:52  <Mazur> Nerkins have a distinct sense of distance?
11:59:59  <Vitus> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taxicab_geometry
11:59:59  <Mazur> Or NewYorkes?
12:00:00  <Webster> Title: Taxicab geometry - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (at en.wikipedia.org)
12:00:21  <hylje> try drawing triangles in a grid layout
12:00:30  <Phazorx> Vitus: is is calced by MH distance as it was in TTO
12:00:43  <Phazorx> which is the root of Rubi's beef with it
12:01:29  <Mazur> I see.
12:02:00  <Phazorx> Mazur:just sync travel to visual rate (making both to be 1), put a counter for diag tiles and total tiles traveled for a given train (reset when it reaches destination) to downshoft the income
12:04:29  <V453000> Why would you need that fixed lol Phazorx
12:04:34  <V453000> just accept syncing
12:04:56  <hylje> i would prefer the game have subtle problems fixed
12:05:06  <Phazorx> V453000: i dont like silly rails which look very disturbing and unrealistic needed to deal with that game
12:05:08  <V453000> this isnt a subtle problem imo
12:05:20  <hylje> and replace the fake difficulty with real, thought out game mechanics
12:05:47  <V453000> lol it is just a detail
12:05:53  <hylje> although most of syncing problems would be fixed with actual bridges and tunnels too
12:05:53  <Phazorx> Mazur: also, i would even suggest going as far as to include ratio for "diagonally traveled distance" to be in config
12:06:20  <Phazorx> so that would make rubi happy if it can be 1, 0.75 and 0.5*sqrt(2)
12:06:56  <Phazorx> hylje: this is the real issue for coopers
12:07:03  <Phazorx> since we strive on perfection
12:07:12  <Phazorx> use full speed networking and smart devices tha pack trains
12:07:21  <Phazorx> and all that only works till they start turning
12:07:23  <hylje> yeah syncing is still a problem for elaborate joins
12:08:08  <Phazorx> basically i stoped working on advanced SML becaue of FS:1063
12:08:33  <Phazorx> there is just no point to make it smother and better if it is not usable in any case other than straight line
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12:09:34  <Phazorx> brb
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12:09:38  <V453000> well
12:10:06  <V453000> this is just ridiculous :)
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12:13:17  <Lukeus_Maximus> what's ridiculous?
12:15:52  <V453000> everyone makes so much noise about that bug
12:20:24  <Phazorx> V453000: you dont see it as a bug
12:20:38  <Phazorx> or you dont find nature of that being relevant to what we do?
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12:21:15  <V453000> I dont know what you mean but I am not sure if I want to ask you about it
12:21:19  <Phazorx> on the other hand you also tell me that SML is not a full speed network so it kinda makes sense together ;o)
12:22:12  <V453000> well your SML is fullspeed, my SML doesnt have to be ... it is just how you use it, and if you think that you define something and everyone will use it as you say without modifying it, good luck
12:55:39  <Lukeus_Maximus> I used the "alternate" shifter design and made a 3 lane SML
12:55:51  <Lukeus_Maximus> go me "the noob"
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13:07:36  <VVG> by alternate you mean what? I just recently started using smls, i'm interested in their implementaions.
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13:23:16  <mitooo> !download lin32
13:23:16  <PublicServer> mitooo: unknown option "lin32"
13:23:22  <mitooo> !download
13:23:22  <PublicServer> mitooo: !download autostart|autottd|lin|lin64|osx|ottdau|win32|win64|win9x
13:23:31  <mitooo> !download lin
13:23:31  <PublicServer> mitooo: http://binaries.openttd.org/nightlies/trunk/r20080/openttd-trunk-r20080-linux-generic-i686.tar.bz2
13:25:44  <Lukeus_Maximus> VVG, there is an SML on the wiki which is an "alternate" implementation of an SML, the one that doesn't use stations but shifts up when trains are joining the line
13:26:49  <Lukeus_Maximus> ie. no penalties
13:27:57  <Lukeus_Maximus> just had a thought, how about using the fastest lane for the exits.
13:28:22  <Lukeus_Maximus> then with a regular prio on each shift the trains will naturally filter up
13:28:40  <Lukeus_Maximus> staying down only when blocked by a faster moving train
13:29:15  <mitooo> !password
13:29:15  <PublicServer> mitooo: sunned
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13:30:49  *** Webster sets mode: +o Phazorx
13:31:24  <Lukeus_Maximus> hey, PublicServer, do you change the server password every time someone asks !password or do you just change it every 5 mins or so? (Yes, I am aware that I'm talking to a bot)
13:31:48  <mitooo> i think it's every 5 minutes (or more or less)
13:32:59  <Lukeus_Maximus> !password
13:32:59  <PublicServer> Lukeus_Maximus: sunned
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13:39:14  <fmauneko> !playercount
13:39:14  <PublicServer> fmauneko: Number of players: 3
13:39:42  <fmauneko> !password
13:39:42  <PublicServer> fmauneko: sunned
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13:45:33  <VVG> building started?
13:46:15  <V453000> @stage Voting
13:46:15  *** Webster changes topic to "Welcome to #openttdcoop, the Cooperative OpenTTD | PSG #188 (r20080) | STAGE: Voting | www.openttdcoop.org | New players, use @quickstart and !help | Screenshots: http://img.openttdcoop.org | Coopetition ladder: http://mz.openttdcoop.org/ladder | Welcome to the depths of insanity | create a wiki userpage"
13:47:08  <Lukeus_Maximus> well, my crazy half-of-a-plan will have to do then...
13:47:23  <V453000> !screen
13:47:23  <PublicServer> *** V453000 liked to make screenshot of last action, but nobody was working since. (http://ps.openttdcoop.org/public/screenshot.png)
13:47:43  <V453000> you mean unfinished?
13:47:52  <Lukeus_Maximus> yep
13:47:53  <V453000> we are voting for almost a weak btw ;)
13:48:00  <Lukeus_Maximus> *week
13:48:07  <V453000> yes
13:48:09  <Lukeus_Maximus> also, forget about my plan
13:48:19  <Lukeus_Maximus> I'd rather vote and do some building
13:48:32  <V453000> lets start building tonight
13:48:37  <V453000> when some people gather
13:48:57  <Lukeus_Maximus> I just thought I'd submit a plan while it was in planning was all :p
13:52:36  <V453000> you still can
13:52:45  <V453000> but ...
13:52:50  <V453000> it is ending tonight
14:01:34  <Lukeus_Maximus> I think I'll pass
14:02:41  <Lukeus_Maximus> It seems that there are over 9000 different goods types and they're all interwoven so complexly that I'd have to make a huge goods mind map before I could do a sufficient plan
14:03:01  <Lukeus_Maximus> what grf is that anyway?
14:03:04  <V453000> firs
14:05:00  <VVG> it's split in chains, not just one big complex system
14:10:17  <VVG> oh, missed the plan part...
14:11:41  <Lukeus_Maximus> is there a good page for FIRS?
14:12:16  <VVG> http://tt-foundry.com/sets/FIRS/schema/economies only one avaible
14:12:19  <Webster> Title: TT Foundry: Pixel Creations for OpenTTD (at tt-foundry.com)
14:12:37  <VVG> no picture scheme avaible like the one for ECS vectors
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14:29:23  <V453000> make your own picture :)
14:29:26  <V453000> best way to go
14:33:38  <VVG> I'm reading up on SMLs on wiki, at the end it says "Even if we have for example DB set with BR182s, we still can put these shifters to use as we can have only one engine per train", why is that?
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16:39:59  <V453000> !password
16:40:00  <PublicServer> V453000: cinder
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16:41:05  <V453000> @stage Building
16:41:05  *** Webster changes topic to "Welcome to #openttdcoop, the Cooperative OpenTTD | PSG #188 (r20080) | STAGE: Building | www.openttdcoop.org | New players, use @quickstart and !help | Screenshots: http://img.openttdcoop.org | Coopetition ladder: http://mz.openttdcoop.org/ladder | Welcome to the depths of insanity | create a wiki userpage"
16:41:24  <V453000> !tweet After a long voting, it is time to build!
16:41:30  <PublicServer> V453000: Tweet sent: http://twitter.com/openttdcoop
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16:41:36  <V453000> lol
16:41:39  <V453000> !password
16:41:39  <PublicServer> V453000: cinder
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16:46:26  <fmauneko> !password
16:46:27  <PublicServer> fmauneko: whores
16:46:39  <fmauneko> lol whores
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16:46:45  <PublicServer> <V453000> hehe
16:48:05  <PublicServer> <fmauNeko> Finally building :p
16:48:22  <PublicServer> <V453000> I will just teleport the plan and then I will make signs where is what
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17:02:07  <gnemonix> darn, my ISP isn't playing nice today
17:04:57  <Lukeus_Maximus> !password
17:04:58  <PublicServer> Lukeus_Maximus: batted
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17:05:54  <Lukeus_Maximus> wtf
17:06:01  <Lukeus_Maximus> who just DELETED the plan?
17:06:08  <PublicServer> <V453000> dont worry
17:06:17  <Lukeus_Maximus> oh I see
17:06:20  <Lukeus_Maximus> you've moved it
17:06:27  <PublicServer> <V453000> it is just teleported to the lake so it doesnt obstacle
17:06:45  <Lukeus_Maximus> teleported?
17:06:58  <PublicServer> <V453000> you take it and copy it at some other location
17:07:02  <Lukeus_Maximus> sounds hacky
17:07:03  <PublicServer> <V453000> then delete the old one :)
17:07:22  <Lukeus_Maximus> but put it like that and I geuss its legit
17:07:29  <Lukeus_Maximus> viewport are copy ftw
17:07:34  <PublicServer> <V453000> sure
17:11:32  <PublicServer> <fmauNeko> Hmm, you have 2 MSH03 on your plan
17:11:43  <Lukeus_Maximus> labelled a and b
17:11:56  <PublicServer> <fmauNeko> Nope :p
17:12:05  <PublicServer> <V453000> yea thx
17:12:08  <PublicServer> <fmauNeko> So, there's 4 MSH03
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17:12:22  <PublicServer> <V453000> the center was supposed to be 1
17:12:25  <PublicServer> <V453000> just numbers
17:12:28  <PublicServer> <fmauNeko> :)
17:12:40  <Lukeus_Maximus> you've number number 01 as 02 and 02 as 03 fool!
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17:13:47  <Lukeus_Maximus> shall I label the SLHs?
17:13:58  <PublicServer> <V453000> there are no SLHs on the plan
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17:14:44  <Lukeus_Maximus> so each station is just connected raw to the SL
17:14:53  <PublicServer> <V453000> no
17:14:54  <PublicServer> <V453000> see
17:14:57  <Lukeus_Maximus> s/raw/close to
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17:15:22  <Lukeus_Maximus> ah
17:15:25  <Lukeus_Maximus> MSHs
17:15:27  <Lukeus_Maximus> right
17:15:32  <PublicServer> <V453000> thats the problem of firs
17:15:44  <Lukeus_Maximus> what?
17:15:47  <Lukeus_Maximus> problem?
17:15:49  <PublicServer> <V453000> million MSHs
17:16:08  <PublicServer> <V453000> if you dont merge some industries together :)
17:16:15  <PublicServer> <V453000> which we did last time, so ..: :)
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17:16:21  <Lukeus_Maximus> which is bad practice and it escalates...
17:16:33  <PublicServer> <V453000> ok :D nice sign spam in a plan
17:16:36  <Lukeus_Maximus> please tell me this is the basic economy for FIRS
17:16:59  <PublicServer> <V453000> I think there are no economies yet
17:17:01  <PublicServer> <V453000> but I dont know
17:17:58  <Lukeus_Maximus> I'm unsure about FIRS in general, how you're supposed to get your head around it is just GAAAAAHHHH
17:18:19  <VVG> !password
17:18:19  <PublicServer> VVG: dinned
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17:18:46  <Lukeus_Maximus> I swear half of these passwords aren't actual words
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17:19:36  <PublicServer> <VVG> MSH stands for main station hub?
17:19:41  <PublicServer> <V453000> yes
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17:20:48  <PublicServer> <VVG> msh01 will be the first to be built?
17:20:53  <PublicServer> <V453000> no
17:20:55  <PublicServer> <V453000> just random
17:21:33  <PublicServer> <VVG> well, don't you have to establish a supplies supply first, since this is a firs game?
17:21:39  <PublicServer> <V453000> no
17:21:53  <PublicServer> <V453000> a) we just build for the final network
17:21:58  <PublicServer> <V453000> so it doesnt matter much
17:22:07  <Lukeus_Maximus> supplies are to increase production
17:22:10  <PublicServer> <VVG> what about closing primaries?
17:22:11  <PublicServer> <V453000> and b) supplies just make higher probability for increase
17:22:29  <PublicServer> <VVG> no, without supplies primaries drop production and close down
17:22:42  <PublicServer> <V453000> no
17:22:49  <Lukeus_Maximus> <argument>
17:22:54  <PublicServer> <VVG> that part was already changed?
17:23:37  <PublicServer> <V453000> it was never there iirc
17:24:02  <VVG> in r963 that's how it is, and not much changed since it in 0.2
17:24:10  <PublicServer> <V453000> you can start connecting the hubs with MLs btw :)
17:24:16  <VVG> andy promised to change the closing stuff in 0.3 on forums
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17:26:03  <PublicServer> <VVG> i guess, if a primary closes, it will be reploped?
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17:27:16  <Lukeus_Maximus> rule regarding TF plz
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17:27:23  <PublicServer> <V453000> for ML you need NONE
17:27:30  <Lukeus_Maximus> high/med/low/none etc
17:27:39  <Lukeus_Maximus> so no tf
17:27:40  <VVG> @quickstart
17:27:41  <Lukeus_Maximus> ok
17:27:42  <PublicServer> <V453000> for hubs you need some, try to low
17:27:42  <Webster> Quickstart - #openttdcoop Wiki - http://wiki.openttdcoop.org/Quickstart
17:27:49  <PublicServer> <V453000> but for straight lines you dont need any at all
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17:28:14  <Lukeus_Maximus> I'll see to that later
17:28:18  <Lukeus_Maximus> for now, BBQ
17:29:13  <hylje> i beat you to bbq
17:29:18  <hylje> although it was just a patty
17:29:49  <VVG> what is TF?
17:29:56  <V453000> @tf
17:29:56  <Webster> tf: Terraform, see also: http://wiki.openttdcoop.org/Terraforming
17:30:01  <VVG> oh
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17:36:25  <V453000> !password
17:36:25  <PublicServer> V453000: hobbit
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17:37:12  <PublicServer> <VVG> how many lanes per direction?
17:37:21  <PublicServer> <V453000> depends where, see plan
17:37:24  <PublicServer> <V453000> mostly 2
17:37:28  <PublicServer> <V453000> or, LL_RR
17:37:35  <PublicServer> <V453000> but in the centre area LLL_RRR
17:37:51  <PublicServer> <VVG> oh, missed that sign at plan
17:38:26  <PublicServer> <VVG> since there are no sidelines, primaries are connected straight to mls?
17:38:41  <PublicServer> <V453000> sidelines are connected "as we can"
17:38:48  <PublicServer> <V453000> you never show sidelines in a plan
17:38:51  <PublicServer> <VVG> wait, there is a notice about sls
17:38:57  <PublicServer> <VVG> ah
17:39:18  <PublicServer> <V453000> that is only SL management about the supplies
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17:39:31  <PublicServer> <V453000> but the ML-SLH-SL stays of course
17:39:34  <PublicServer> <V453000> hi Spikey :)
17:40:42  <PublicServer> <VVG> what's the use for power station?
17:40:48  <PublicServer> <V453000> none
17:40:49  <PublicServer> <V453000> kind of
17:40:51  <hylje> sink
17:42:14  <PublicServer> ***  made screenshot at 00001930: http://ps.openttdcoop.org/public/webcam/00001930.png
17:42:32  <PublicServer> <Spike> food drop etc is 2-way station?
17:42:38  <PublicServer> <V453000> no
17:42:41  <PublicServer> <V453000> oh tat
17:42:45  <PublicServer> <V453000> yea
17:43:14  <PublicServer> <V453000> doesnt make any problems since it is in the edges
17:43:25  <PublicServer> <Spike> mhm... can also make it terminus :)
17:43:36  <PublicServer> <V453000> well
17:43:39  <PublicServer> <V453000> doesnt really matter
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17:43:44  <PublicServer> <V453000> but terminus would be better
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17:44:01  <PublicServer> <V453000> because you  dont unbalance L_R traffic
17:44:19  <PublicServer> <Spike> hmm... also can do it roro.. seeing the space i got an idea
17:44:41  <PublicServer> <V453000> ok
17:44:52  <PublicServer> <V453000> I take the Machine Shop \o/
17:45:42  <PublicServer> <Spike> can try psb station... or a basic other station...
17:45:59  <PublicServer> <V453000> psb for drop doesnt have any use :)
17:46:07  <PublicServer> <VVG> stations at outer ring, like steelmill, are they supposed to be tremius?
17:46:08  <PublicServer> <V453000> the same if you use just normal signals
17:46:15  <PublicServer> <V453000> VVG: no
17:46:28  <PublicServer> <Spike> remember 152? ;)
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17:46:44  <PublicServer> <Spike> the massive desert map with SML
17:47:01  <PublicServer> <Spike> or 153 i don't know the exact number
17:47:15  <PublicServer> <V453000> 152
17:47:16  <PublicServer> <Spike> 152 :)
17:48:18  <PublicServer> <Spike> never made a PSB station so want to try it anyway :D
17:48:43  <PublicServer> <V453000> as I said, PSB has a point only for pickups and jam-expected drops
17:48:50  <PublicServer> <VVG> what's a PSB?
17:49:12  <PublicServer> <Spike> but else i end up with a dull station again plain and simple :)
17:49:13  <PublicServer> <V453000> PreSignal Bypass
17:49:43  <PublicServer> <VVG> what does that bypass part mean?
17:50:20  <VVG> oh nvm, there is a wiki article for it
17:51:22  <PublicServer> <VVG> map is so montainous i can't imagine how to fit in anything...
17:51:43  <PublicServer> <V453000> if you build just ML, only make a grid
17:51:44  <hylje> there's always a way
17:51:47  <PublicServer> <V453000> so just go over anything
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17:53:45  <PublicServer> <VVG> a grid?
17:55:47  <PublicServer> <V453000> well
17:55:52  <PublicServer> <V453000> the plan is a kinda scheme
17:56:00  <PublicServer> <V453000> the MLs are in some grid
17:56:44  <PublicServer> <VVG> by making a grid you meant following a plan layout?
17:57:23  <PublicServer> ***  made screenshot at 000054AA: http://ps.openttdcoop.org/public/webcam/000054AA.png
17:57:53  <PublicServer> <V453000> yes
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18:00:06  <PublicServer> <Spike> V made a concesis for ya... i do both ;) the dull one and the PSB one ;)
18:01:00  <PublicServer> <V453000> :)
18:01:07  <PublicServer> <V453000> oh yez
18:01:14  <PublicServer> <Spike> ?
18:01:52  <PublicServer> <V453000> at the normal signalling :)
18:02:18  <PublicServer> <VVG> i'd like to try msh 01 e, is that ok?
18:02:34  <PublicServer> <Spike> sure
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18:03:15  <PublicServer> <VVG> what directions to prioritizy?
18:03:22  <PublicServer> <V453000> well
18:03:30  <PublicServer> <V453000> on a MSH that is pretty much your choice
18:04:30  <PublicServer> <VVG> should i place a sign i'm working on it?
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18:06:34  <V453000> @unban Train_man
18:06:34  *** Webster sets mode: -b Train_man!~Train_man@cpe-76-186-146-77.tx.res.rr.com
18:06:40  <V453000> did this work?
18:07:21  <PublicServer> <V453000> VVG: yea, good to make everyone know not to touch until you are donte :)
18:07:45  <PublicServer> <V453000> but btw MSH 01 are going to be one of the hardest hubs
18:08:04  <PublicServer> <V453000> I recommend some LL_RR hub for the start
18:08:07  <PublicServer> <V453000> 2 and 3 lines is a big difference
18:08:23  <PublicServer> <Spike> woops.. 1 bomb too much :D
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18:08:51  <PublicServer> <VVG> hard is in? i guessed it will be 2 lanes in every direction
18:09:08  <PublicServer> <V453000> ugh
18:09:09  <PublicServer> <V453000> no
18:09:10  <PublicServer> <V453000> 3
18:09:25  <PublicServer> <V453000> and it needs proper balancing
18:09:42  <PublicServer> <VVG> oh my, i so mixed msh, for mlh...
18:09:55  <PublicServer> <V453000> what is mlh
18:10:17  <PublicServer> <VVG> mainline hub :)
18:10:23  <PublicServer> <V453000> that is nothing
18:10:25  <PublicServer> <V453000> maybe BBH
18:10:41  <PublicServer> <VVG> i got things mixed up :(
18:11:42  <PublicServer> <VVG> i thought it will be one of the easier things, and there is such a nice flat space
18:12:06  <PublicServer> <VVG> i better try something else
18:12:26  <PublicServer> ***  made screenshot at 000056A9: http://ps.openttdcoop.org/public/webcam/000056A9.png
18:12:52  <PublicServer> <V453000> BBH 06 could be easier
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18:13:07  <Train_ma1> woohoo
18:14:01  <Train_ma1> @quickstart
18:14:04  <Webster> Quickstart - #openttdcoop Wiki - http://wiki.openttdcoop.org/Quickstart
18:14:13  <Train_ma1> !dl win64
18:14:13  <PublicServer> Train_ma1: http://binaries.openttd.org/nightlies/trunk/r20080/openttd-trunk-r20080-windows-win64.zip
18:16:33  <PublicServer> <fmauNeko> Hahaha :p
18:16:37  <^Spike^> is it just me or does the server hank sometimes
18:16:44  <PublicServer> <Spike> hang*
18:16:53  <PublicServer> <V453000> im not building yet so dunno
18:17:12  <Train_ma1> just wondering, what was the ban for 2 years ago?
18:17:52  <PublicServer> <Spike> seems to hang at the beginning of each month shortly.. aka auto-save?
18:17:59  <PublicServer> <V453000> no idea
18:18:40  <PublicServer> <VVG> i'll go for BBH06, ok?
18:18:44  <Train_ma1> !password
18:18:44  <PublicServer> Train_ma1: belted
18:18:44  <PublicServer> <V453000> sure
18:18:57  <PublicServer> *** Train_man joined the game
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18:24:32  <PublicServer> <Spike> there V food drop... with both what we want :D
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18:24:41  <PublicServer> <Spike> even tried to keep it compact :)
18:24:44  <PublicServer> <V453000> meeeh
18:24:48  <PublicServer> <V453000> this isnt the "normal signalling ;)
18:24:48  <PublicServer> <Spike> what... :)
18:24:54  <PublicServer> <V453000> see this
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18:25:10  <PublicServer> <Spike> you want normal signals there...
18:25:16  <PublicServer> <Spike> yeesh.. demandig...
18:25:17  <PublicServer> <V453000> this works perfectly
18:25:20  <PublicServer> <V453000> no slows
18:25:23  <PublicServer> <V453000> just advice
18:25:25  <PublicServer> <V453000> do as you want lol :)
18:25:35  <PublicServer> <Spike> i've always learned them this way :)
18:25:46  <PublicServer> <V453000> well ... this is kinda my pioneering style :D
18:26:06  <PublicServer> <Spike> stupid town :)
18:26:09  <PublicServer> <V453000> :)
18:26:54  <PublicServer> <Train_man> it's been a while since i've done stations like this
18:27:02  <PublicServer> <V453000> OMG
18:27:05  <PublicServer> <V453000> nice terraforming
18:27:06  <PublicServer> <V453000> really
18:27:19  <PublicServer> <Train_man> sorry
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18:30:40  <^Spike^> Train_ma1 going to finish it?
18:32:28  <^Spike^> Train_ma1 ?
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18:33:45  <PublicServer> <VVG> is there a need for balancers between inner and outer lanes?
18:33:50  <PublicServer> <V453000> sure
18:34:48  <PublicServer> <VVG> afk 5 mins
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18:35:45  <Train_man1> !password
18:35:45  <PublicServer> Train_man1: cougar
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18:37:10  <PublicServer> <VVG> do balancing part need to have doubled bridges?
18:37:31  <PublicServer> <V453000> well
18:37:36  <PublicServer> <V453000> depends how you balance
18:42:31  <PublicServer> ***  made screenshot at 0000B4E8: http://ps.openttdcoop.org/public/webcam/0000B4E8.png
18:44:49  <PublicServer> <Spike> Train_man #1: could you watcht the TF
18:44:55  <PublicServer> <Train_man #1> ok sorry
18:44:58  <PublicServer> <VVG> how long should a prio be?
18:45:02  <PublicServer> *** Train_man #1 has changed his/her name to Train_man #2
18:45:07  <PublicServer> <V453000> Train_man #1: that was said once already
18:45:16  <PublicServer> <Train_man #2> ok
18:45:17  <PublicServer> <Spike> vvg usually take TL+2 or so
18:45:29  <PublicServer> <Spike> there is no standard rule for that
18:45:33  <PublicServer> <V453000> indeed
18:45:36  <PublicServer> <Spike> but TL+2 usually is a nice start
18:45:39  <PublicServer> <VVG> +2 as in +2 signal blocks?
18:45:58  <PublicServer> <Spike> if TL = 5 you do +2 so you take 7
18:46:23  <PublicServer> <Spike> see my example close by :)
18:51:43  <PublicServer> <Spike> vvg you're gonna hate me ;)
18:52:31  <PublicServer> <VVG> sorry, missed the chat
18:52:43  <PublicServer> <VVG> what was i to see?
18:52:52  <PublicServer> <Spike> my sign ;)
18:53:05  <PublicServer> <Spike> like i said: you're gonna hate me for those :D
18:53:06  <PublicServer> <VVG> ah!
18:53:32  <PublicServer> <Spike> tip ;)
18:53:58  <PublicServer> <VVG> that space was for prio )
18:54:17  <PublicServer> *** Train_man #2 has left the game (connection lost)
18:54:24  <PublicServer> <VVG> i originally had it going straight, like this
18:54:42  <PublicServer> <VVG> later moved it back one tile, to make space for prio, forgetting to check cl
18:55:17  <PublicServer> <Spike> i'm looking how to solve it
18:55:54  <PublicServer> <Spike> i get a feeling that isn't gonna work
18:56:05  <PublicServer> <VVG> wait a sec
18:56:35  <PublicServer> <VVG> no...
18:56:40  <PublicServer> <Spike> think outside the box ;)
18:56:43  <PublicServer> <Spike> be creative
18:56:48  <PublicServer> <VVG> haha
18:57:33  <PublicServer> ***  made screenshot at 0003E6F3: http://ps.openttdcoop.org/public/webcam/0003E6F3.png
18:57:52  <PublicServer> <VVG> is such a workaroud ok for this setup?
18:58:24  <PublicServer> <VVG> no....
18:58:48  <PublicServer> <Spike> why not turn it around
18:58:51  <PublicServer> <VVG> for curves, 4 and a half is not eough?
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18:59:30  <PublicServer> <VVG> turn around what?
18:59:37  <PublicServer> <Spike> nah it won't work
18:59:44  <PublicServer> <Spike> was thinking bridge = tunnel
18:59:47  <PublicServer> <Spike> and other way around
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19:04:27  <PublicServer> <Spike> v what are you creating for deathtrap
19:04:41  <PublicServer> <V453000> this will be infuckingsane :D
19:04:48  <PublicServer> <Spike> aka big fail? ;)
19:04:56  <PublicServer> <V453000> also possible :D
19:05:10  <PublicServer> <V453000> but we havent had anything similar on our server yet
19:05:36  <PublicServer> <Spike> what is the idea behind it... so maybe the presigs make sense to me
19:05:47  <PublicServer> <V453000> it is a huge overflow
19:05:56  <PublicServer> <V453000> with a few features
19:06:01  <PublicServer> <V453000> I will describe when I am done ;)
19:06:59  <PublicServer> <V453000> it will be about 4x fail-safe, 10 times failing and 20 times weird
19:07:19  <PublicServer> <VVG> is that a pickup?
19:07:23  <PublicServer> <VVG> station?
19:07:27  <PublicServer> <V453000> yes
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19:11:08  <PublicServer> <V453000> hi
19:11:26  <PublicServer> <Spike> VVG:
19:11:27  <PublicServer> <Mazur> Hi, V.
19:11:28  <PublicServer> <Spike> just an idea
19:11:42  <PublicServer> <Spike> will let you win 1 tile
19:11:52  <PublicServer> <Spike> see what i mean? :)
19:12:09  <PublicServer> <VVG> missed it :(
19:12:13  <PublicServer> <Mazur> Zooming broken?
19:12:18  <PublicServer> <Spike> should i redo it? ;)
19:12:24  <PublicServer> <VVG> yes
19:12:29  <PublicServer> <Spike> bridge add
19:12:36  <PublicServer> ***  made screenshot at 0000BCE9: http://ps.openttdcoop.org/public/webcam/0000BCE9.png
19:12:36  <PublicServer> <Spike> disconnect
19:12:39  <PublicServer> <VVG> cl?
19:13:18  <PublicServer> <VVG> oh!
19:13:31  <PublicServer> <Spike> do i need to do more? :)
19:13:38  <PublicServer> <Spike> or you see it :)
19:13:49  <PublicServer> <VVG> yeah, i saw it
19:13:52  <PublicServer> <Spike> oki :)
19:13:55  <PublicServer> <Spike> gli finishing it then :)
19:14:02  <PublicServer> <Spike> don't make it too hard on yourself :)
19:14:35  <PublicServer> <VVG> i went a safe route and made a bit of inbetween space for direction lines, which wasn't quite safe in the end...
19:15:03  <PublicServer> <VVG> afk a few mins
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19:16:36  <PublicServer> *** Mazur has left the game (leaving)
19:17:05  <PublicServer> <VVG> Spike, are other parts ok?
19:17:21  <PublicServer> <Spike> as far as i've seen yes
19:17:25  <PublicServer> *** Mazur joined the game
19:18:00  <PublicServer> <Mazur> Damn, any way I can get keyboard zoom baclk to work if it doesn't?
19:19:57  <PublicServer> <fmauNeko> Got to go
19:19:59  <PublicServer> <fmauNeko> cya
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19:27:12  <Lukeus_Maximus> !password
19:27:12  <PublicServer> Lukeus_Maximus: hymnal
19:27:25  <PublicServer> <VVG> i finished mostly, may anyone check please?
19:27:41  <PublicServer> ***  made screenshot at 0003E0F9: http://ps.openttdcoop.org/public/webcam/0003E0F9.png
19:27:43  <PublicServer> <V453000> sorry, gotta finish this
19:28:04  <Lukeus_Maximus> !password
19:28:04  <PublicServer> Lukeus_Maximus: throbs
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19:36:48  <Lukeus_Maximus> I'm building some of the centre ML
19:36:59  <PublicServer> <V453000> good
19:37:09  <PublicServer> <V453000> that is exactly what needs doing :)
19:37:10  <PublicServer> <V453000> the ML
19:37:13  <Lukeus_Maximus> MSH 01 E to BBH 04,
19:37:19  <Lukeus_Maximus> is it in the right place?
19:37:24  <Lukeus_Maximus> I do want to get this right
19:37:31  <PublicServer> <V453000> yes
19:37:34  <Lukeus_Maximus> good
19:37:39  <PublicServer> <V453000> just ~connect the signed hubs
19:37:41  <Lukeus_Maximus> I'll do a hub next
19:37:50  <Lukeus_Maximus> or just ML
19:37:55  <PublicServer> <V453000> :)
19:38:02  <PublicServer> <V453000> as you want
19:38:05  <PublicServer> <V453000> but ML needs doing
19:38:41  <PublicServer> <VVG> ble, missed some 2 balancers, and there is no more space (
19:41:56  <PublicServer> <VVG> low tf is ok, right?
19:42:15  <PublicServer> <V453000> well ... I always say: if nobody notices your TF, it is still none ;)
19:42:23  <PublicServer> <VVG> lol
19:42:26  <Lukeus_Maximus> I think keep it minimal
19:42:30  <PublicServer> <V453000> if you can keep it look natural, it is good
19:42:32  <Lukeus_Maximus> as low as poss
19:42:45  <PublicServer> ***  made screenshot at 0000F4E0: http://ps.openttdcoop.org/public/webcam/0000F4E0.png
19:42:58  <Lukeus_Maximus> I TFed one square where there was an up followed immediately by a down...
19:43:03  <Lukeus_Maximus> that's just silly
19:43:11  <PublicServer> <V453000> sure :)
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19:47:48  <PublicServer> *** V453000 has left the game (connection lost)
19:49:39  <V453000> whee
19:49:41  <V453000> !password
19:49:41  <PublicServer> V453000: imaged
19:50:06  <PublicServer> *** V453000 joined the game
19:57:48  <PublicServer> ***  made screenshot at 0003D01E: http://ps.openttdcoop.org/public/webcam/0003D01E.png
20:00:25  <PublicServer> <VVG> i'm done here, though someone experienced should check it. :)
20:02:11  <Lukeus_Maximus> we are using standard railway right?
20:02:19  <PublicServer> <V453000> nah electrified
20:02:22  <Lukeus_Maximus> not electric / maglev etc.
20:02:26  <Lukeus_Maximus> ok
20:02:33  <Lukeus_Maximus> HEY!
20:02:36  <PublicServer> <V453000> :P
20:02:41  <PublicServer> <V453000> :D
20:02:43  <Lukeus_Maximus> I saw that sneaky upgrade!
20:04:35  <PublicServer> <V453000> everybody forgets :)
20:06:49  <PublicServer> *** VVG has left the game (leaving)
20:07:16  <VVG> i'm off for now
20:07:19  <PublicServer> <V453000> cya
20:07:51  <VVG> not leaving yet! :)
20:08:23  *** mixrin has joined #openttdcoop
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20:12:50  <PublicServer> ***  made screenshot at 0003FC16: http://ps.openttdcoop.org/public/webcam/0003FC16.png
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20:17:50  <J_Darnley> Have people decided on a terraforming policy yet
20:18:01  <PublicServer> <V453000> be clever
20:18:09  <PublicServer> <V453000> ultimate policy
20:18:19  <J_Darnley> :)
20:18:27  *** perk11 has joined #openttdcoop
20:20:23  <welterde> !password
20:20:23  <PublicServer> welterde: exodus
20:20:35  <PublicServer> *** welterde joined the game
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20:20:47  <Lukeus_Maximus> so my implementation of MSH 01 E is large, confusing and probably badly made, but I did it.
20:21:14  <PublicServer> <V453000> hmm
20:21:28  <Train_man_Work> !password
20:21:28  <PublicServer> Train_man_Work: exodus
20:21:33  <PublicServer> <V453000> it will probably work quite poorly due to weird forced balancing ... but lets see later
20:21:53  <PublicServer> *** Train_man joined the game
20:22:02  <Lukeus_Maximus> that terraforming was what I was trying to avoid, but oh well
20:22:10  <PublicServer> <V453000> CL2?
20:22:11  <PublicServer> <Train_man> ugh something's wrong with my irc client
20:22:11  <PublicServer> <V453000> ... :p
20:23:09  <Lukeus_Maximus> erm
20:23:29  <Lukeus_Maximus> do we drive on the right or the left (I do on the left because I live in the UK)
20:23:42  <PublicServer> <V453000> on the right
20:23:43  <Lukeus_Maximus> ok
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20:23:55  <PublicServer> <V453000> xD that would have hurt
20:24:16  <Lukeus_Maximus> be thankful I asked :P
20:24:17  <PublicServer> <V453000> but your splits and merges dont vary
20:24:26  <PublicServer> <V453000> so it could be even swapped
20:26:14  <PublicServer> *** welterde has left the game (leaving)
20:27:52  <PublicServer> ***  made screenshot at 0003D433: http://ps.openttdcoop.org/public/webcam/0003D433.png
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20:35:17  <Train_man_Work> !password
20:35:17  <PublicServer> Train_man_Work: acuter
20:35:37  <PublicServer> *** Train_man joined the game
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20:38:39  <Ramsus08191> !password
20:38:39  <PublicServer> Ramsus08191: acuter
20:39:03  <PublicServer> *** Ramsus08191 joined the game
20:39:16  <PublicServer> <Ramsus08191> Hello there
20:39:19  <PublicServer> <V453000> hiya
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20:40:00  <Train_man_Work3> !password
20:40:00  <PublicServer> Train_man_Work3: acuter
20:40:17  <PublicServer> *** Train_man joined the game
20:40:24  <PublicServer> <Train_man> what is wrong with my connection?!
20:40:41  <PublicServer> <V453000> dont ask us
20:40:48  <PublicServer> <Ramsus08191> hmm finally buildings have started
20:40:55  <PublicServer> *** Ramsus08191 has joined company #1
20:42:17  <PublicServer> <Spike> W.... T..... F......
20:42:41  <PublicServer> <Ramsus08191> that machine shop is going to be srnw?
20:42:47  <PublicServer> <V453000> nah
20:42:54  <PublicServer> ***  made screenshot at 0003BE33: http://ps.openttdcoop.org/public/webcam/0003BE33.png
20:42:54  <PublicServer> <V453000> just a little overflow
20:43:06  <PublicServer> <V453000> but that basically is self regulation
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20:43:55  <PublicServer> <V453000> looks like a flower :D
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20:46:21  <PublicServer> <Train_man> oops
20:46:24  <PublicServer> <V453000> 5
20:46:30  <PublicServer> <Train_man> k thx
20:46:31  <PublicServer> <V453000> take  me like your personal bot :P
20:47:00  <PublicServer> <Train_man> :p thx since my irc is only on my phone
20:47:05  <PublicServer> <V453000> :D
20:47:28  <Lukeus_Maximus> ok
20:47:30  <PublicServer> <V453000> holy
20:47:35  <PublicServer> <V453000> who is building BBH 01
20:47:43  <PublicServer> <Ramsus08191> hmm so acording to the plan BBH04 would be LLL_RRR and BBH12 would be LL_RR?
20:47:45  <Lukeus_Maximus> I'm bring in the ML from MSH 01 E to the Machine shop
20:47:58  <Lukeus_Maximus> how best should I tackle the:
20:48:11  <Lukeus_Maximus> a wild MASSIVE LAKE has appeared!
20:48:14  <Lukeus_Maximus> ?
20:48:25  <PublicServer> <V453000> I will connect it there
20:48:26  <hylje> build a bridge
20:48:28  <PublicServer> <Train_man> yes how do i tackle these lakes?
20:48:39  <PublicServer> <V453000> lakes ... be smart :)
20:48:48  <Lukeus_Maximus> yes, I thought bridges would be best
20:48:52  <Lukeus_Maximus> but still, tricky
20:48:59  <Lukeus_Maximus> ok, here goes
20:49:01  <PublicServer> <Ramsus08191> round it?
20:49:11  <PublicServer> <V453000> depends really
20:49:18  <PublicServer> <V453000> most of the time it is possible to go around
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20:49:38  <PublicServer> <Train_man> am i doing it right (west of goods station)
20:49:52  <Lukeus_Maximus> looks right
20:50:01  <PublicServer> <Train_man> ok thanks
20:50:03  <Lukeus_Maximus> stepped climbing, TL5
20:50:12  <Lukeus_Maximus> I see nothing wrong*
20:50:18  <PublicServer> <V453000> why would you EVER use that stepped climbs?
20:50:20  <Lukeus_Maximus> *disclaimer: pros may disagree
20:50:33  <PublicServer> <V453000> it is ugly, needless, superhugeTF, shall I continue?
20:50:45  <De_Ghosty> !signal
20:50:47  <De_Ghosty> !signals
20:50:53  <De_Ghosty> !wiki
20:50:53  <PublicServer> De_Ghosty: http://www.openttdcoop.org/wiki/Main_Page
20:51:33  <PublicServer> <Train_man> should i make islands for bridges, make canals and fake islands, or should i create a huge bridge?
20:52:02  <PublicServer> <V453000> where
20:52:02  <De_Ghosty> all of the above
20:52:08  <PublicServer> <V453000> ยจ:D
20:52:17  <PublicServer> <V453000> good one De_Ghosty
20:52:32  <PublicServer> <V453000> Train_man: one more such TF and you are banner perma
20:52:39  <PublicServer> <V453000> d
20:52:47  <PublicServer> <Train_man> what did i tf?
20:52:55  <PublicServer> <V453000> wait are you building BBH 01?
20:52:59  <PublicServer> <Train_man> no
20:53:03  <PublicServer> <V453000> ok who is that ?
20:53:13  <PublicServer> <V453000> sorry for inconvenience
20:53:19  <PublicServer> <Train_man> it's ok
20:53:50  <PublicServer> <V453000> and then there was silence
20:53:54  <PublicServer> <J_Darnley> That's me at BBH01
20:53:58  <PublicServer> <V453000> ok
20:54:02  <PublicServer> <V453000> keep the TF low
20:54:06  <PublicServer> <V453000> this is really very, VERY bad
20:54:19  <PublicServer> <J_Darnley> I did ask...
20:54:45  <PublicServer> <V453000> well this is nowhere smart :D
20:54:53  <PublicServer> <Train_man> what trains will we be using? The speed of them, i mean? These silicon bridges look a bit ugly
20:55:03  <PublicServer> <V453000> 230 kmh
20:56:12  <PublicServer> <Train_man> ok i'll besupporting the phillipines
20:56:20  <PublicServer> <Ramsus08191> hmm I believe we are going to pick wood as well.....right:
20:56:23  <PublicServer> <Ramsus08191> ?*
20:56:33  <PublicServer> <V453000> what do you mn
20:56:35  <PublicServer> <V453000> mean
20:57:19  <PublicServer> <Ramsus08191> I will try to do BBH04, and there is a forest in between, if we are going to pick wood, I will leave space for station and such
20:57:33  <PublicServer> <V453000> nah
20:57:34  <PublicServer> <Spike> try to do it without too much TF
20:57:43  <PublicServer> <V453000> BBH is more important than a forest
20:57:49  <PublicServer> <V453000> we can prospect a million of those
20:57:51  <PublicServer> <V453000> well almost :)
20:57:57  <PublicServer> ***  made screenshot at 0002DFC3: http://ps.openttdcoop.org/public/webcam/0002DFC3.png
20:58:15  <PublicServer> <Ramsus08191> bleh, anyway, I will preserve it, increasing difficulty :D
20:58:27  <PublicServer> <Train_man> i'd like to see how msh 03b is built with low tf
20:58:41  <PublicServer> <V453000> very easily
20:58:54  <PublicServer> <V453000> that is a really easy spot
20:58:55  <PublicServer> <Train_man> hmmm you guys are good
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20:59:21  <PublicServer> <Ramsus08191> wtf, now I have a furniture factory here as well lol
20:59:27  <PublicServer> <V453000> :D
20:59:33  <PublicServer> <V453000> you have spectators
21:00:33  <PublicServer> <Train_man> i'll leave it up to the pros now to continue my ML
21:00:35  <PublicServer> <Train_man> ;)
21:02:25  <PublicServer> <Train_man> are you guys american or european, anyways?
21:02:34  <PublicServer> <V453000> im ufo
21:02:42  <PublicServer> <V453000> most of us are european
21:02:46  <Lukeus_Maximus> if it matters you are not on the internet yet, keep going...
21:02:48  <PublicServer> <V453000> but some people are american
21:02:49  <PublicServer> <Train_man> i see
21:03:14  <hylje> on the internet nobody knows you're a dog
21:03:15  <hylje> or dutch
21:03:21  <PublicServer> <V453000> :D
21:05:44  <PublicServer> <Train_man> my little friend akoz showed me to use PBS signals everywhere, so I don't exactly know how you guys signal. I'm not signaling my stations/railways so you guys can do it. I don't want to screw anything up :/
21:05:58  <PublicServer> <V453000> wow
21:06:01  <PublicServer> <Ramsus08191> normal signals
21:06:05  <PublicServer> <V453000> that is exactly the case I talk about
21:06:11  <PublicServer> <V453000> PBS makes people turn their brain off
21:06:25  <PublicServer> <Ramsus08191> I only see the use of pbs for some merges and station entrances
21:06:30  <PublicServer> <Train_man> they're really easy to use, that's why
21:06:37  <PublicServer> <V453000> they are also pretty bad :)
21:06:53  <PublicServer> <Ramsus08191> but they cause other types of problems as well :D
21:06:53  <PublicServer> <Train_man> for the bridge entrance, is pbs ok?
21:07:13  <PublicServer> <V453000> you cant say PBS is bad in general, it is good when you can use it
21:07:15  <PublicServer> <V453000> but that is rare
21:07:19  <PublicServer> <V453000> and yes, bridges are fine :)
21:07:31  <PublicServer> <V453000> although I use presignals only
21:07:37  <Lukeus_Maximus> I have to say that #openttdcoop is "Do you play ttd? Can you place a track section? Good. Now absord PSB and PBS theory. Oh btw, don't confuse between the two!
21:07:44  <PublicServer> <V453000> only in very tight spaces I do use PBS
21:09:04  <PublicServer> <Train_man> woohoo done
21:10:10  <PublicServer> <Ramsus08191> is cantilever bridge ok?
21:10:16  <PublicServer> <V453000> yes
21:10:18  <PublicServer> <Lukeus_Maximus> no
21:10:25  <Lukeus_Maximus> alright yes
21:10:28  <PublicServer> *** Yso joined the game
21:10:37  <PublicServer> <V453000> it only loox bad :)
21:10:41  <PublicServer> <V453000> matter of opinion
21:10:57  <PublicServer> <Train_man> do what i did
21:11:02  <PublicServer> <Ramsus08191> bad? I prefer it then the silicon ones, also cantilever is cool
21:11:04  <PublicServer> <Train_man> party of color in the southwest
21:11:32  <PublicServer> <Train_man> plus there's three colors of silicon vs two of cantilever
21:12:59  <PublicServer> ***  made screenshot at 00046C17: http://ps.openttdcoop.org/public/webcam/00046C17.png
21:13:55  <PublicServer> <Train_man> hey @ MSH 03a should i build across the lake or around?
21:14:11  <PublicServer> <V453000> well
21:14:18  <PublicServer> <V453000> first of all the bridges are too long :)
21:14:36  <PublicServer> <Train_man> they are? i made three though
21:14:43  <PublicServer> <V453000> ooh
21:14:44  <PublicServer> <V453000> ok
21:14:49  <PublicServer> <V453000> well
21:14:53  <PublicServer> <V453000> do what you can :)
21:15:02  <PublicServer> <V453000> build longer, build further, whatever
21:15:03  <PublicServer> <Train_man> kk
21:15:12  <PublicServer> <V453000> oh, DCritic?
21:15:17  <PublicServer> <Train_man> yes?
21:15:34  <PublicServer> <Train_man> huh?
21:15:43  <PublicServer> <Train_man> hmm
21:15:58  <PublicServer> <Train_man> oops sorry
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21:20:39  <theholyduck> so, how far in zeh building phase
21:20:43  <theholyduck> are thou?
21:20:49  <theholyduck> !dl win64
21:20:49  <PublicServer> theholyduck: http://binaries.openttd.org/nightlies/trunk/r20080/openttd-trunk-r20080-windows-win64.zip
21:20:52  <PublicServer> <Train_man> not far
21:20:53  <PublicServer> <V453000> beginnings
21:20:59  <PublicServer> <Train_man> but main stations are build
21:20:59  <theholyduck> type of game?
21:21:17  <PublicServer> <V453000> openttd
21:21:29  <PublicServer> <Ramsus08191> coop
21:21:30  <theholyduck> i ment, boost, standard cargo, chaos, etc,etc
21:21:36  <PublicServer> <V453000> etc
21:21:38  <PublicServer> <V453000> mixed with etc
21:21:46  <PublicServer> <Ramsus08191> no I think its the second one
21:22:21  <PublicServer> <Ramsus08191> its cargo I think
21:22:26  <theholyduck> !password
21:22:26  <PublicServer> theholyduck: clowns
21:22:28  <PublicServer> <V453000> firs cargo
21:22:39  <PublicServer> *** theholyduck joined the game
21:22:39  <PublicServer> <Ramsus08191> with damn annoying forests in the way
21:23:02  <theholyduck> just turn off trees?
21:23:10  <PublicServer> <V453000> :D
21:23:21  <PublicServer> <V453000> that didnt hit the spot theholyduck
21:23:37  <theholyduck> v, your plan is madness
21:23:38  <VVG> !password
21:23:38  <PublicServer> VVG: clowns
21:23:39  <theholyduck> MADNESS i tell you
21:23:45  <PublicServer> <V453000> it is just firs
21:23:49  <theholyduck> heh
21:23:50  <PublicServer> <V453000> im innocent
21:23:53  <theholyduck> tons of cargo eh?
21:23:54  <PublicServer> *** VVG joined the game
21:23:56  <theholyduck> types anyway
21:24:01  <theholyduck> still, i'm looking at that plan
21:24:03  <theholyduck> and i'm like
21:24:07  <theholyduck> i dont enven know
21:24:10  <PublicServer> <Ramsus08191> its not that complicated as long as you can see through the signals
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21:24:38  <PublicServer> <V453000> if you write down what produces what, it is ok
21:24:39  <PublicServer> <theholyduck> question though
21:24:45  <PublicServer> <V453000> for building it is easy
21:24:46  <PublicServer> <theholyduck> who is building that "theholyduckstyle" bbh01?
21:24:47  <PublicServer> <V453000> there is only a lot of it
21:25:11  <PublicServer> <VVG> i absolutely don't get how that stations in the middle works, must be some magic o_0
21:25:28  <PublicServer> <V453000> I can say that #openttdcoop never seen this :)
21:25:39  <PublicServer> <theholyduck> well, i THINK i understand how that works
21:26:10  <PublicServer> <VVG> should have used MLSS for eyecandy depots there :)
21:26:10  <PublicServer> <V453000> it is just a huge overflow with a few additional features
21:26:20  <PublicServer> <V453000> the depots are very nice imo
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21:26:42  <PublicServer> <theholyduck> i'm still wondering who is building bbh01 while cramping my "style"
21:26:46  <PublicServer> <theholyduck> hat is, hueeeg
21:26:47  <PublicServer> <VVG> mlss look even more nicer, from screenies
21:26:50  <PublicServer> <theholyduck> *that is hueg
21:27:01  <PublicServer> <J_Darnley> that would be me theholyduck
21:27:05  <PublicServer> <theholyduck> not that i mind or anything,
21:27:09  <PublicServer> <theholyduck> i'm just confused that other people build like that
21:27:18  <PublicServer> <V453000> :D
21:27:28  <PublicServer> <V453000> "damn I am that bad? :D"
21:27:35  <PublicServer> <Train_man> is MSH 03b cramping anyone's style?
21:27:56  <PublicServer> <theholyduck> remember to put a sign
21:28:01  <PublicServer> ***  made screenshot at 0003DD14: http://ps.openttdcoop.org/public/webcam/0003DD14.png
21:28:01  <PublicServer> <theholyduck> when you start building somewhere
21:28:04  <PublicServer> <Train_man> i did
21:28:13  <PublicServer> <theholyduck> was more talking to the other guy
21:28:19  <PublicServer> <Train_man> oops ok
21:28:43  <PublicServer> <theholyduck> now, to decide on a junction to build
21:28:54  <PublicServer> <V453000> there is quite a choice :)
21:29:03  <PublicServer> <VVG> do you use fail-safe sml shifter for some traffic management in not sml games?
21:29:13  <PublicServer> <V453000> usually not
21:29:25  <PublicServer> <VVG> is that a bad choice?
21:29:28  <PublicServer> <theholyduck> didnt we use something like that in the chaos game
21:29:30  <PublicServer> <V453000> but i have a hub design that also uses SML
21:29:33  <PublicServer> <theholyduck> in 170?
21:29:36  <PublicServer> <theholyduck> err
21:29:40  <PublicServer> <theholyduck> whatever it was
21:29:45  <PublicServer> <theholyduck> toyland chaos game
21:29:46  <PublicServer> <V453000> VVG: it isnt needed
21:29:50  <PublicServer> <Train_man> if tl is 5 then does it mean diagonally it would be 5 half tiles?
21:29:51  <PublicServer> <V453000> theholyduck: no
21:30:00  <PublicServer> <theholyduck> i just seem to remember it
21:30:12  <PublicServer> <V453000> there was normal balancing
21:30:15  <PublicServer> <Train_man> i'm assuming yes
21:30:23  <PublicServer> <theholyduck> Train_man: when the tile counting tool says 5
21:30:28  <PublicServer> <theholyduck> its okay
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21:31:09  <PublicServer> <theholyduck> which is 9 half tiles
21:31:34  <PublicServer> <theholyduck> er
21:31:40  <PublicServer> <theholyduck> you maint train lenght?
21:31:42  <PublicServer> <theholyduck> silly brian
21:31:48  <PublicServer> <theholyduck> i read corner lenght
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21:32:28  <theholyduck> well, either way, a 10 wagon train only needs 9 half ti
21:32:33  <theholyduck> *tiles to turn
21:32:55  <PublicServer> <VVG> how do i make a view port?
21:33:05  <PublicServer> <V453000> press v
21:33:08  <PublicServer> <theholyduck> or hold the map button
21:33:10  <PublicServer> <VVG> ty
21:33:14  <PublicServer> <theholyduck> and go down to viewport
21:33:16  <PublicServer> <theholyduck> depending
21:34:22  <PublicServer> <theholyduck> so, v, should i attempt building msh02b where marked?
21:34:25  <PublicServer> <theholyduck> i like a challenge etc,
21:34:29  <PublicServer> <theholyduck> and i enjoy building on mountainsides
21:34:33  <PublicServer> <V453000> fun :D
21:34:34  <PublicServer> <V453000> yea
21:34:35  <PublicServer> <V453000> sure
21:35:06  <PublicServer> <Train_man> you're the opposite of J_Darnley :p just kidding, J
21:35:19  <PublicServer> <VVG> ghm, where would you build msh 4-1? it all high mountains out there
21:35:43  <PublicServer> <V453000> MSHs come later
21:35:50  <PublicServer> <V453000> [besides MSH 1,2,3]
21:35:59  <PublicServer> <theholyduck> heh.
21:36:00  <PublicServer> <V453000> but those in the smaller stations are later
21:36:07  <PublicServer> <Train_man> i'm confused... it says MSH spokes are L_R but is Lokeus planning to merge them?
21:36:12  <PublicServer> <theholyduck> well yeah
21:36:13  <PublicServer> <VVG> your machine shop won't work as good as it can without msh 4-1 :)
21:36:16  <PublicServer> <theholyduck> i was wondering aswell :P
21:36:29  <PublicServer> <theholyduck> is food drop not a msh spoke?
21:36:37  <PublicServer> <V453000> it is
21:36:47  <PublicServer> <V453000> but these are major MSHs with fixed positions
21:37:07  <PublicServer> <theholyduck> well, i was just commenting on how 02a is LL_RR
21:37:10  <PublicServer> <theholyduck> out of it
21:38:27  <PublicServer> <theholyduck> also, will spikes food drop even WORK?
21:38:33  <PublicServer> <Spike> which one :)
21:38:39  <PublicServer> <VVG> msh 01 w will be a 3 lanes every direction?
21:38:41  <PublicServer> <theholyduck> top one with the presignal bypass
21:38:42  <PublicServer> <Spike> i also notice i forget 1 entrance :D
21:38:47  <PublicServer> <Spike> that one will work
21:38:56  <PublicServer> <theholyduck> presignal bypass hasnt worked very well in any games i've played in
21:38:59  <PublicServer> <theholyduck> other than with tl 2
21:39:01  <PublicServer> <Spike> oh no i got both
21:39:11  <PublicServer> <V453000> theholyduck: because you fucked up :P
21:39:19  <PublicServer> <theholyduck> well not me doing it, but other people
21:39:21  <PublicServer> <Spike> in 152 it worked :)
21:39:29  <PublicServer> <V453000> presignal bypass does work
21:39:34  <PublicServer> <V453000> but for drop stations is pointless
21:39:38  <PublicServer> <theholyduck> it always ends up with trains having to wait
21:39:56  <PublicServer> <Spike> V453000: i like to challege myself.. may i for ONCE! ;)
21:40:08  <PublicServer> <theholyduck> atleast, every time i saw it used on a drop station
21:40:08  <PublicServer> <V453000> come on :D
21:40:16  <PublicServer> <theholyduck> it was much more efficient to just not use any form of special signaling at all
21:40:20  <PublicServer> <theholyduck> just standard 2 ways
21:40:33  <PublicServer> <theholyduck> much fewer waits and higher speeds and the rest
21:40:34  <PublicServer> <V453000> theholyduck: only influenced by the fact if there are signals after the exits or not
21:41:17  <PublicServer> <theholyduck> but yeah anyway, should i make msh02b LLRR?
21:41:21  <PublicServer> <theholyduck> like lukeus does?
21:41:26  <PublicServer> <V453000> yes
21:41:30  <PublicServer> <theholyduck> ok :P
21:41:34  <PublicServer> <theholyduck> lets gooooo
21:41:35  <PublicServer> <theholyduck> etc
21:41:57  <PublicServer> <V453000> I thought "lets gooooo" is translated as "quack quack"
21:42:29  <Lukeus_Maximus> I didn't think you wanted the major FOOD DROP as a L_R input trach
21:42:40  <Lukeus_Maximus> *track
21:42:59  <Lukeus_Maximus> anyway, good night, I'll see you all tomorrow
21:43:01  <PublicServer> <Spike> ?
21:43:03  <PublicServer> ***  made screenshot at 000305CD: http://ps.openttdcoop.org/public/webcam/000305CD.png
21:43:40  <PublicServer> <VVG> blah,, was typing a message and tycoon popup blew it away :(
21:43:41  <Lukeus_Maximus> only 501? I am disappointed...
21:43:51  <PublicServer> *** Lukeus_Maximus has left the game (leaving)
21:43:53  <PublicServer> <V453000> :D
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21:44:13  <PublicServer> <VVG> bbh 05 looks so inviting
21:44:25  <PublicServer> <V453000> be its guest
21:46:04  <PublicServer> <VVG> it's scary
21:46:13  <PublicServer> <Train_man> what's scary?
21:46:14  <PublicServer> <theholyduck> what is?
21:46:16  <PublicServer> <VVG> atleast where the sign is
21:46:22  <PublicServer> <VVG> bbh 05
21:46:46  <PublicServer> <theholyduck> v, i'm attempting msh 02b
21:46:50  <PublicServer> <theholyduck> the other v
21:46:55  <PublicServer> <theholyduck> the non 423412412 one
21:47:32  <PublicServer> <VVG> oh my
21:47:48  <PublicServer> <theholyduck> whats life without challenge
21:47:51  <PublicServer> <theholyduck> eh
21:48:09  <PublicServer> <VVG> that looks like a bit too much of it
21:48:18  <PublicServer> <theholyduck> trying is half the fun
21:48:25  <PublicServer> <theholyduck> just keep rebuilding and EVENTUALLY you'll find a way
21:48:43  <PublicServer> <Train_man> i bet i could build it
21:49:30  <PublicServer> <theholyduck> how powerful are our engines?
21:49:37  <PublicServer> <theholyduck> as in, how much of a gradient do i need to give them
21:49:46  <PublicServer> <V453000> gradient = steepness?
21:49:52  <PublicServer> <theholyduck> well yeah
21:49:56  <PublicServer> <V453000> full hill np
21:50:01  <PublicServer> <theholyduck> ok
21:50:08  <PublicServer> <theholyduck> makes it so much easier
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21:52:05  <PublicServer> <VVG> where will you place a machine shop?
21:52:12  <PublicServer> <V453000> underground
21:52:23  <PublicServer> <VVG> no, really
21:52:56  <PublicServer> <V453000> there you go
21:53:06  <PublicServer> <VVG> :)
21:53:44  <PublicServer> <theholyduck> v, you might want to prefix your station with some obligatory
21:53:46  <PublicServer> <theholyduck> DO NOT TOUCH
21:53:47  <PublicServer> <theholyduck> signs
21:53:52  <PublicServer> <V453000> im sure I will
21:53:59  <PublicServer> <theholyduck> judging by what usually happens in these games
21:54:10  <PublicServer> <Spike> i'm touching it..
21:54:11  <PublicServer> <Spike> ;)
21:54:14  <PublicServer> <V453000> I see :)
21:54:16  <PublicServer> <theholyduck> where somebody takes a look at your crazy designs without having done brainsurgery
21:54:19  <PublicServer> <Spike> ;)
21:54:23  <PublicServer> <theholyduck> on themself that is
21:54:29  <PublicServer> <theholyduck> and end up breaking it
21:54:35  <PublicServer> <V453000> brainsurgery is usually already useless :p
21:54:50  <PublicServer> <theholyduck> sure, but you need drastic measures to wrap your head around your designs
21:55:03  <PublicServer> <V453000> :)
21:55:11  <PublicServer> <V453000> not that drastic
21:55:20  <PublicServer> <V453000> understanding a few signals
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21:56:04  <PublicServer> <VVG> mm, was heqs 0.7 released after game start?
21:56:17  <PublicServer> <V453000> yes
21:56:39  <PublicServer> <VVG> a pirt, it got some nice cargo trams
21:56:43  <PublicServer> <VVG> pity*
21:56:54  <PublicServer> <V453000> yea ... but we wouldnt make use of them anyway
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21:58:02  <PublicServer> <VVG> well, you can make some nice local feeders, which in turn let you build less small, but more bigger stations :)
21:58:05  <PublicServer> ***  made screenshot at 0002E3B7: http://ps.openttdcoop.org/public/webcam/0002E3B7.png
22:01:22  *** perk11 has quit IRC
22:01:30  <PublicServer> <Ramsus08191> bbhs dont need prios right?
22:01:34  <PublicServer> <V453000> wrong :)
22:01:40  <PublicServer> <Ramsus08191> :/
22:01:45  <PublicServer> <Ramsus08191> but why?
22:01:50  <PublicServer> <V453000> well not prios, they need line choosers - and those involve prios
22:01:59  <PublicServer> <theholyduck> the balancer needs prios
22:02:02  <PublicServer> <Train_man> I made MSH 03B!
22:02:03  <PublicServer> <theholyduck> to work
22:02:11  <PublicServer> <Train_man> (bigger than it had to be :p
22:02:33  <PublicServer> <theholyduck> whats up with the tripple bridges?
22:02:42  <PublicServer> <theholyduck> you don't ACTUALLY need them
22:02:57  <theholyduck> @cl 5
22:02:57  <Webster> theholyduck: (cl <no arguments>) -- Returns full name and reference url (if defined)
22:03:02  <theholyduck> hmm
22:03:05  <PublicServer> <Train_man> eh... idk
22:03:05  <theholyduck> how was that again
22:03:08  <theholyduck> !cl 5
22:03:11  <PublicServer> <V453000> @gap
22:03:17  <theholyduck> @gap 5
22:03:17  <Webster> theholyduck: For Trainlength of 5: <= 11 needs 2, 12 - 18 needs 3, 19 - 25 needs 4.
22:03:30  <theholyduck> so yeah, uynless your bridges are longer than 11
22:03:33  <theholyduck> you only need 2 of them
22:03:47  <PublicServer> <Train_man> ok thanks
22:04:44  <PublicServer> <theholyduck> i think we might need to do something about the bridge crossing you made aswell
22:04:58  <PublicServer> <theholyduck> yeah
22:05:04  <PublicServer> <theholyduck> the first signal gap is the shortest
22:05:06  <PublicServer> <theholyduck> on one of them
22:05:26  <PublicServer> <theholyduck> which is bad, or atleast, needs compensating for
22:05:40  <PublicServer> * theholyduck goes back to his own junction
22:07:00  <PublicServer> <Train_man> hey what's with "Ammler Loved" anywho?
22:07:07  <PublicServer> <V453000> hm?
22:07:12  <PublicServer> <V453000> it is a swiss loc
22:07:13  <PublicServer> <Train_man> that train
22:13:07  <PublicServer> ***  made screenshot at 00040AE0: http://ps.openttdcoop.org/public/webcam/00040AE0.png
22:15:08  *** KyleS has joined #openttdcoop
22:15:37  <KyleS> !password
22:15:37  <PublicServer> KyleS: brooch
22:16:10  <PublicServer> *** KyleS joined the game
22:16:12  <PublicServer> <Train_man> welcome bienvenidos aloha konnichiwa
22:16:24  <PublicServer> <KyleS> thanks ;o
22:16:38  <PublicServer> <Ramsus08191> Hi
22:17:05  <PublicServer> <Train_man> hey btw spain won
22:18:58  *** Burns has joined #openttdcoop
22:19:34  <PublicServer> <KyleS> hai duck :o
22:19:43  <PublicServer> <theholyduck> yo
22:20:16  <PublicServer> <J_Darnley> oops, did I use the wrong kind of track
22:22:03  <PublicServer> *** Spike has left the game (leaving)
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22:28:09  <PublicServer> ***  made screenshot at 00050FCD: http://ps.openttdcoop.org/public/webcam/00050FCD.png
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22:35:08  <PublicServer> <Train_man> hey isn't msh 02a supposed to be L_R on the spoke?
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22:39:26  <PublicServer> <Train_man> you know what they should do in the next update?
22:39:47  <PublicServer> <Train_man> a future landscape
22:40:32  <VVG> as in post nuclear war landscape?
22:40:38  <PublicServer> <Train_man> yeah
22:40:53  <PublicServer> <Train_man> and uranium deposits etc
22:40:56  <Razaekel> there was a mars version a while back, iirc
22:41:04  <VVG> and where you'll get industries in such a landscape?
22:41:10  <Razaekel> located around valleis marineris or summat
22:42:38  * planetmaker absolutely sees the benefit of such landscape
22:42:46  <planetmaker> *fails to see
22:43:08  <Razaekel> there isn't any, really
22:43:12  <PublicServer> ***  made screenshot at 0002E1C0: http://ps.openttdcoop.org/public/webcam/0002E1C0.png
22:43:14  <Razaekel> it's just a change of scenery
22:43:18  *** heffer has quit IRC
22:43:18  <Razaekel> and industry
22:46:04  *** Progman has quit IRC
22:46:11  <PublicServer> <theholyduck> there, i'm back
22:46:15  <PublicServer> <Ramsus08191> wb
22:46:29  *** Phazorx has quit IRC
22:46:58  <PublicServer> <Train_man> there, i'm back
22:47:06  <PublicServer> <Ramsus08191> wb
22:47:50  <PublicServer> <Train_man> the land right next to you is really flat, theholyduck. You sure you shouldn't have built there?
22:47:58  <VVG> bbh 05 anyone doing yet?
22:48:10  <PublicServer> <Train_man> if there's no sign, there's nobody
22:48:27  <PublicServer> <Train_man> i'd like bbh03 built more tho
22:48:39  <VVG> i'll grab it then, just go get a coffee
22:49:47  <PublicServer> <Ramsus08191> erm.. ok.. I dont think I am doind it the right way... can someone take a quick look here..?
22:49:56  <PublicServer> <Ramsus08191> bbh04
22:50:18  <PublicServer> <Train_man> hmm
22:50:34  <PublicServer> <Train_man> it looks alright
22:50:47  <PublicServer> <Train_man> why?
22:51:03  <PublicServer> <Train_man> maybe you should have attempted something smaller as your first, like an msh
22:51:09  <PublicServer> <Train_man> my first is in the southwest
22:51:58  <theholyduck> train, challenges is more fun
22:53:17  <PublicServer> <theholyduck> well, i'm only leveling land that was level allready
22:53:22  <PublicServer> <VVG> 3 lines into 1 and so soon after ml looks like a bad idea
22:53:32  <PublicServer> <Ramsus08191> hmm I think I am going to wait and leave some space for improvement,
22:53:39  <PublicServer> <Ramsus08191> hmm
22:58:14  <PublicServer> ***  made screenshot at 00008C2B: http://ps.openttdcoop.org/public/webcam/00008C2B.png
23:00:25  <VVG> @cl
23:00:25  <Webster> cl: Curve Length, mostly used to describe how big a curve must be to let pass trains with a certain TL at full speed, see also: http://wiki.openttdcoop.org/Max_Curve_Speed
23:00:37  <PublicServer> <Train_man> it's 5
23:00:50  <VVG> @gap 5
23:00:50  <Webster> VVG: For Trainlength of 5: <= 11 needs 2, 12 - 18 needs 3, 19 - 25 needs 4.
23:01:21  <theholyduck> yeah, 11 is the distance you need for gaps :p
23:01:44  <theholyduck> er
23:01:45  <theholyduck> rather
23:01:50  <theholyduck> for 2 tunels/Bridges
23:02:06  <PublicServer> <VVG> :)
23:02:09  <PublicServer> *** V453000 has left the game (leaving)
23:02:13  <V453000> me off
23:02:14  <V453000> cya :)
23:02:18  <PublicServer> <Ramsus08191> bye
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23:09:38  <PublicServer> <theholyduck> hmm,,
23:09:45  <PublicServer> <theholyduck> so, i've been looking at msh01e
23:10:08  <PublicServer> <theholyduck> is that even going to WORK, northbound?
23:10:27  <PublicServer> <Train_man> yeah it is
23:10:32  <PublicServer> <theholyduck> no, it wont
23:10:39  <PublicServer> <theholyduck> the balancer wouldnt balance
23:10:46  <PublicServer> <theholyduck> too long waiting and no prios
23:10:48  <PublicServer> <theholyduck> etc
23:11:01  <PublicServer> <Train_man> oh
23:11:22  <PublicServer> <Train_man> well Lukeus, today's not your day. it has to be redone...
23:11:32  <PublicServer> <theholyduck> well it might NOT have to be.
23:11:33  <PublicServer> <Train_man> hey can you please build bbh 02
23:11:35  <PublicServer> <theholyduck> depends on traffic :P
23:11:48  <PublicServer> <theholyduck> i can give it a go atleas
23:11:51  <PublicServer> <theholyduck> why?
23:11:58  <PublicServer> <theholyduck> i need a distractionf rom my mountain one
23:12:12  <PublicServer> <Train_man> i messed up bbh02 area
23:12:26  <PublicServer> <Train_man> if you look at it, it has been turned into an arty exhibit
23:13:07  <PublicServer> <theholyduck> well its 2x lllrrr and 1x llrr
23:13:11  <PublicServer> <theholyduck> whats the hard bit in that?
23:13:16  <PublicServer> ***  made screenshot at 0000A933: http://ps.openttdcoop.org/public/webcam/0000A933.png
23:13:26  <PublicServer> <Train_man> idk how to do it
23:13:38  <PublicServer> <theholyduck> lets give it a wirl then
23:13:41  <PublicServer> <theholyduck> take a look as i build
23:13:45  <PublicServer> <Train_man> ok
23:13:46  <PublicServer> <theholyduck> first up, we draw the basic lines
23:13:56  <PublicServer> <theholyduck> just to help wrap our heads around it :P
23:15:18  <PublicServer> <theholyduck> thats the basic junction
23:15:21  <PublicServer> <theholyduck> right
23:15:25  <PublicServer> <Train_man> yup
23:15:32  <PublicServer> <theholyduck> next step.
23:15:37  <PublicServer> <theholyduck> creating all the splitters
23:15:50  <PublicServer> <Ramsus08191> wiat, where are you guys doing it, I am with the same problem
23:15:56  <PublicServer> <Train_man> bbh 02
23:16:06  <PublicServer> <Ramsus08191> oh ok
23:16:41  <PublicServer> <theholyduck> so yeah, essentially, we need to split off all the incomming lines
23:16:42  <PublicServer> <VVG> cl needs to be full 5 tiles, 4.5 not enough?
23:17:08  <PublicServer> <theholyduck> VVG: just use the counter thingy
23:17:13  <PublicServer> <theholyduck> when it says 5 as the number
23:17:14  <PublicServer> <theholyduck> the cl is right
23:17:19  <PublicServer> <Train_man> i believe every half tile counts as one in the equation, am i right?
23:17:26  <PublicServer> <theholyduck> train, you are not
23:17:34  <PublicServer> <VVG> well, it takes two diagonals to actually switch counter
23:17:39  <PublicServer> <Train_man> then we need to redo my msh
23:17:42  <PublicServer> <Train_man> :(
23:17:51  <PublicServer> <theholyduck> i said way back when you asked that originally
23:17:53  <PublicServer> <theholyduck> that you were wrong
23:17:53  <PublicServer> <VVG> so, first 5 is enough, no need to try for second ?
23:18:00  <PublicServer> <theholyduck> yeah
23:18:07  <PublicServer> <VVG> cool
23:18:07  <PublicServer> <theholyduck> first 5 = 9 half tiles
23:18:11  <PublicServer> <theholyduck> which is enough
23:18:14  <PublicServer> <Train_man> oh i must have not been paying attention sry
23:18:20  <PublicServer> <VVG> 4.5 full tiles :)
23:18:44  <PublicServer> <theholyduck> anyway, whoever i was helping at bbh02
23:18:52  <PublicServer> <theholyduck> time to make the 3 splitters
23:19:14  <PublicServer> <Train_man> ok
23:24:01  <PublicServer> <Ramsus08191> ok, in this split, will be a single lane carrying the trains that want to exit from the 3Lanes from the ML...?
23:24:21  <PublicServer> <theholyduck> naw.
23:24:32  <PublicServer> <theholyduck> for now, every line split off is seperate
23:24:36  <PublicServer> <theholyduck> until the merger at the end
23:24:40  <PublicServer> <Ramsus08191> hmm ok
23:24:44  <PublicServer> <theholyduck> gives the most throughput
23:24:55  <PublicServer> <Train_man> ok
23:28:02  <PublicServer> <theholyduck> heh, looking at it, i did that split, way early
23:28:18  <PublicServer> ***  made screenshot at 0000D95A: http://ps.openttdcoop.org/public/webcam/0000D95A.png
23:28:23  <PublicServer> <theholyduck> and actually, it would be better in the other direction
23:28:24  <PublicServer> * theholyduck redoes it
23:28:35  <PublicServer> <Ramsus08191> nah, no one will notice it...
23:28:39  <PublicServer> <Ramsus08191> nvm...
23:33:56  <PublicServer> <Train_man> brb gotta chow continue building
23:37:53  <PublicServer> <theholyduck> err
23:37:58  <PublicServer> <theholyduck> why did i build my splitter like that
23:38:00  <PublicServer> <theholyduck> silly brain
23:38:17  <PublicServer> <Ramsus08191> hmm let sapace for 2 diagonal lanes?
23:38:25  <PublicServer> <Ramsus08191> hmmm
23:40:11  <PublicServer> <VVG> hmm
23:40:27  <PublicServer> <VVG> i wonder what side i have to priotisize
23:40:44  <PublicServer> <VVG> feels like i've done it the wrong way
23:42:47  <PublicServer> <theholyduck> there we have 2 splitters done
23:42:53  <PublicServer> <theholyduck> and we have 5 lines that need to be turned into 3
23:43:09  <PublicServer> <Ramsus08191> hm? where?
23:43:20  <PublicServer> ***  made screenshot at 0000D95E: http://ps.openttdcoop.org/public/webcam/0000D95E.png
23:43:20  <PublicServer> <Ramsus08191> ah I see
23:43:21  <PublicServer> <Ramsus08191> nvm
23:43:35  <PublicServer> <theholyduck> for now, i'll jusst lazy balance it
23:43:40  <PublicServer> <theholyduck> it should work just as well
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23:45:13  <PublicServer> <Ramsus08191> what do you mean by lazy balance?
23:45:32  <PublicServer> <theholyduck> a FULL balancer lets every track chose every track,
23:45:33  <PublicServer> <theholyduck> essentially
23:45:35  <PublicServer> *** Train_man has left the game (connection lost)
23:45:36  <PublicServer> <theholyduck> or close to it
23:45:42  <PublicServer> <theholyduck> in this case, i'm just letting the 3 tracks straight through
23:45:47  <PublicServer> <theholyduck> and balancing the last 2 onto them
23:45:57  <PublicServer> <theholyduck> should work just as well in practice.'
23:47:30  <PublicServer> <Ramsus08191> in game 186 I have seen a pbs merger, dont remember who built it, does it work good in practice?
23:47:40  <PublicServer> <theholyduck> usually, not so well
23:48:23  <PublicServer> <Ramsus08191> I think it was like this....
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23:48:45  <PublicServer> <theholyduck> well, with low, LOW traffic
23:48:52  <PublicServer> <theholyduck> that would work fine
23:48:56  <PublicServer> <theholyduck> in some sideline or something
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23:49:18  <PublicServer> <theholyduck> but its not a very good idea for any capacity
23:51:50  *** Train_man_Work3 has quit IRC
23:52:58  <PublicServer> <theholyduck> :O i has to go
23:53:06  <PublicServer> <theholyduck> family is callingk
23:53:10  <PublicServer> *** theholyduck has left the game (connection lost)
23:53:14  <PublicServer> <Ramsus08191> aoright
23:58:23  <PublicServer> ***  made screenshot at 0000AD34: http://ps.openttdcoop.org/public/webcam/0000AD34.png

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