Log for #openttdcoop on 14th July 2010:
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02:45:56  <duckblaster> !password
02:45:56  <PublicServer> duckblaster: pooped
02:46:08  <duckblaster> nice password
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03:31:18  <Davelister> !password
03:31:18  <PublicServer> Davelister: sharps
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04:08:54  <duckblaster> !password
04:08:54  <PublicServer> duckblaster: boasts
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04:10:59  <Absolutis> !password
04:10:59  <PublicServer> Absolutis: boasts
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04:59:59  <Absolutis> !players
05:00:00  <PublicServer> Absolutis: Client 225 (Orange) is duckblaster, in company 1 (Coopers #188)
05:00:07  <Absolutis> !password
05:00:08  <PublicServer> Absolutis: butler
05:00:58  <PublicServer> *** Absolutis (FIN) joined the game
05:07:35  <PublicServer> <Absolutis (FIN)> Can ships be used in this game?
05:08:04  <duckblaster> openttd? yes, openttdcoop? no idea
05:08:28  <PublicServer> <Absolutis (FIN)> this specific PSG game
05:08:57  <duckblaster> i don't know, ask planetmaker or someone else
05:09:20  <planetmaker> moin :-D
05:09:30  <duckblaster> are ships allowed?
05:09:33  <planetmaker> why do you need ships?
05:09:47  <duckblaster> i don't, Absolutis does
05:10:32  <PublicServer> <Absolutis (FIN)> well, i don't need ships but they could be useful in some cases.
05:10:49  <planetmaker> On this map I'd tend to say 'we don't need them' and the plan wants rail
05:11:20  <planetmaker> if there's a good reason to use one, it might be considered nevertheless
05:11:58  <planetmaker> the only reason to use on on this map, though which I see, is to ship supplies to an industry
05:12:33  <planetmaker> ships are generally problematic: if not done rigth, they eat HUGE amounts of CPU and make a game unplayable very quickly
05:12:44  <planetmaker> *right
05:17:55  <planetmaker> in any case: if you need a ship, use VERY MANY buoys. like every 10 tiles distance at _most_ for them
05:18:11  <planetmaker> better make them closer even
05:35:46  *** Yso has joined #openttdcoop
05:36:16  <Absolutis> hi yso!
05:36:31  <Yso> good morning
05:37:43  <duckblaster> !players
05:37:45  <PublicServer> duckblaster: Client 225 (Orange) is duckblaster, in company 1 (Coopers #188)
05:37:45  <PublicServer> duckblaster: Client 227 (Orange) is Absolutis (FIN), in company 1 (Coopers #188)
05:38:39  <Yso> !password
05:38:39  <PublicServer> Yso: gargle
05:38:55  <PublicServer> *** Yso joined the game
05:39:06  <duckblaster> the password was pooped a bit earlier
05:39:22  <duckblaster> who set the word list?
05:47:26  <PublicServer> <Absolutis (FIN)> afk
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06:09:49  <PublicServer> *** duckblaster has left the game (connection lost)
06:10:37  <duckblaster> !password
06:10:38  <PublicServer> duckblaster: delved
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06:14:22  <Absolutis> what is the next game going to be like?
06:15:24  <Absolutis> Planetmaker?
06:15:42  <planetmaker> Absolutis: no idea
06:15:55  <duckblaster> any idea when?
06:16:00  <planetmaker> !info
06:16:00  <PublicServer> planetmaker: #:1(Orange) Company Name: 'Coopers #188'  Year Founded: 1950  Money: 2061624919  Loan: 0  Value: 2070181363  (T:363, R:72, P:10, S:0) unprotected
06:16:06  <planetmaker> a week?
06:16:10  <planetmaker> a few day?
06:16:20  <duckblaster> thanks
06:16:35  <planetmaker> I mean... this game is far from done
06:16:41  <Yso> !!
06:16:52  <duckblaster> how much more?
06:16:59  <PublicServer> <Absolutis (FIN)> there is still much of free space...
06:17:01  <planetmaker> twice? three times?
06:17:22  <planetmaker> The network didn't see any serious traffic so far
06:17:28  <Yso> look at all the empty MLs :)
06:17:37  <duckblaster> just needs more trains
06:17:38  <planetmaker> ^^
06:17:40  <duckblaster> :P
06:17:45  <Yso> and the SLs with just one or two primaries
06:17:55  <PublicServer> <Absolutis (FIN)> And more industries more trains :)
06:17:59  <planetmaker> what yso says
06:18:08  <planetmaker> Absolutis: sure
06:18:11  <planetmaker> But just fund them
06:18:31  <planetmaker> but only fund what you connect
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06:41:10  <Absolutis> spike, do you know anything about the next game?
06:44:15  <PublicServer> <Absolutis (FIN)> gtg
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06:59:31  <planetmaker> hm, why are people so intend on a new game when this is at most half-way done? :S
06:59:42  <planetmaker> and how would *someone* know anything about the next game?
06:59:48  <duckblaster> just interested
06:59:56  <duckblaster> i am a noob
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07:00:22  <planetmaker> 'new game' will be decided when this game is deemed 'done'
07:00:37  <planetmaker> and what map that will be... is mostly a spontaneous decision
07:00:43  <planetmaker> we have no plan there
07:02:07  <planetmaker> and IMHO the fun part of building only begins now: transforming it from a good network to a really good one, stress-testing it
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07:14:34  <KyleS> !password
07:14:35  <PublicServer> KyleS: rinses
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07:20:33  *** Absolutis has joined #openttdcoop
07:20:38  <Absolutis> !password
07:20:38  <PublicServer> Absolutis: rinses
07:20:47  <Absolutis> !players
07:20:49  <PublicServer> Absolutis: Client 229 (Orange) is Yso, in company 1 (Coopers #188)
07:22:01  <planetmaker> [08:59]	<planetmaker>	hm, why are people so intend on a new game when this is at most half-way done? :S
07:22:02  <planetmaker> [08:59]	<planetmaker>	and how would *someone* know anything about the next game?
07:22:04  <planetmaker> [09:00]	<planetmaker>	'new game' will be decided when this game is deemed 'done'
07:22:05  <planetmaker> [09:00]	<planetmaker>	and what map that will be... is mostly a spontaneous decision
07:22:07  <planetmaker> [09:00]	<planetmaker>	we have no plan there
07:22:08  <planetmaker> [09:02]	<planetmaker>	and IMHO the fun part of building only begins now: transforming it from a good network to a really good one, stress-testing it
07:22:10  <planetmaker> ^^^^ Absolutis
07:24:02  <Absolutis> !password
07:24:02  <PublicServer> Absolutis: rinses
07:24:20  <PublicServer> *** Absolutis (FIN) joined the game
07:47:48  <PublicServer> <Absolutis (FIN)> Hubs are starting to get _some_ pressure.
07:48:15  <PublicServer> <Absolutis (FIN)> not all hubs, of course.
07:52:33  <PublicServer> *** Benom joined the game
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08:11:05  <PublicServer> *** Yso has joined spectators
08:11:12  <Yso> cya l8r :)
08:11:21  <PublicServer> <Absolutis (FIN)> Bye!
08:11:45  <Absolutis> afk, playing civ.
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08:15:23  <Absolutis> Civilization 4 vanilla when being specific.
08:22:34  <PublicServer> <Absolutis (FIN)> ...
08:22:39  <PublicServer> <Absolutis (FIN)> i hate windows.
08:23:39  <planetmaker> !clients
08:23:44  <planetmaker> !rcon players
08:23:44  <PublicServer> planetmaker: #:1(Orange) Company Name: 'Coopers #188'  Year Founded: 1950  Money: 2066683584  Loan: 0  Value: 2085305407  (T:398, R:82, P:10, S:0) unprotected
08:23:57  <planetmaker> !rcon clients
08:23:57  <PublicServer> planetmaker: Client #1  name: 'PublicServer'  company: 255  IP:
08:23:57  <PublicServer> planetmaker: Client #239  name: 'Absolutis (FIN)'  company: 1  IP:
08:23:58  <PublicServer> planetmaker: Client #229  name: 'Yso'  company: 255  IP:
08:24:48  <planetmaker> [10:11]	<Absolutis>	afk, playing civ. <-- please read the rules again. Especially the last line
08:24:58  <planetmaker> afk --> not within a company on this server
08:25:03  <PublicServer> *** Absolutis (FIN) has joined spectators
08:25:04  <planetmaker> !rcon move 239 255
08:25:04  <PublicServer> planetmaker: players
08:25:04  <PublicServer> planetmaker: server_info
08:25:04  <PublicServer> planetmaker: clients
08:25:04  <PublicServer> planetmaker: echo doneclientcount
08:25:05  <PublicServer> planetmaker: #:1(Orange) Company Name: 'Coopers #188'  Year Founded: 1950  Money: 2066683584  Loan: 0  Value: 2085305407  (T:398, R:82, P:10, S:0) unprotected
08:25:05  <PublicServer> planetmaker: Current/maximum clients:     2/255
08:25:07  <PublicServer> planetmaker: Current/maximum companies:   1/ 1
08:25:07  <PublicServer> planetmaker: Current/maximum spectators:  2/10
08:25:09  <PublicServer> planetmaker: Client #1  name: 'PublicServer'  company: 255  IP:
08:25:09  <PublicServer> planetmaker: Client #239  name: 'Absolutis (FIN)'  company: 255  IP:
08:25:11  <PublicServer> planetmaker: you have 3 more messages
08:25:11  <PublicServer> <Absolutis (FIN)> done.
08:25:50  <planetmaker> thanks.
08:26:57  <PublicServer> <Absolutis (FIN)> Altough i can't ;_( something went wrong with the patch installation and now it cant start the game >:(
08:27:43  <PublicServer> *** Absolutis (FIN) has joined company #1
08:41:20  <Absolutis> brb
08:41:21  *** Absolutis has left #openttdcoop
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09:04:18  <PublicServer> *** Yso has left the game (leaving)
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09:12:01  <fmauneko> Ohai
09:12:07  <fmauneko> !playercount
09:12:07  <PublicServer> fmauneko: Number of players: 0
09:17:49  *** Henri has joined #openttdcoop
09:17:59  <Henri> !password
09:17:59  <PublicServer> Henri: rafter
09:18:21  <PublicServer> *** Henri joined the game
09:19:24  <fmauneko> !password
09:19:24  <PublicServer> fmauneko: rafter
09:20:06  <PublicServer> *** fmauNeko joined the game
09:20:09  <PublicServer> <fmauNeko> hai
09:20:12  <PublicServer> <Henri> hi
09:22:40  <PublicServer> *** Henri has left the game (leaving)
09:22:54  <PublicServer> *** fmauNeko has left the game (leaving)
09:24:35  *** Lukeus_Maximus has joined #openttdcoop
09:24:40  <Lukeus_Maximus> !password
09:24:40  <PublicServer> Lukeus_Maximus: rafter
09:24:56  <PublicServer> *** Lukeus Maximus joined the game
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09:35:38  <Absolutis> !players
09:35:39  <PublicServer> Absolutis: There are currently no clients connected to the server
09:35:43  <Absolutis> :(
09:36:28  <Absolutis> someone there?
09:37:20  <Absolutis> anyone?
09:37:51  <Absolutis> hello?
09:38:08  *** Absolutis has quit IRC
09:40:09  <SmatZ> :p
09:40:22  <Lukeus_Maximus> I am here
09:40:28  <Lukeus_Maximus> oh bother
09:40:33  <SmatZ> :)
09:40:52  <Lukeus_Maximus> he came, he saw, he left unanswered
09:41:20  <SmatZ> yeah :)
09:43:37  <fmauneko> :p
09:43:46  <fmauneko> !password
09:43:46  <PublicServer> fmauneko: dilate
09:44:05  <PublicServer> *** fmauNeko joined the game
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09:49:50  <BigB> !players
09:49:51  <PublicServer> BigB: Client 249 (Orange) is fmauNeko, in company 1 (Coopers #188)
09:50:12  <BigB> heya
09:50:15  <BigB> !password
09:50:15  <PublicServer> BigB: dilate
09:50:16  <fmauneko> I'm alone :'(
09:50:20  <fmauneko> Hey :p
09:50:34  <PublicServer> *** BigB joined the game
09:51:49  <BigB> wat are you doing ?
09:54:07  <V453000> elo
09:54:12  <PublicServer> <fmauNeko> Hai V
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10:01:03  <V453000> !password
10:01:03  <PublicServer> V453000: dimmer
10:01:27  <PublicServer> *** V453000 joined the game
10:01:44  <PublicServer> <V453000> anything happening? :)
10:02:31  <PublicServer> <fmauNeko> Nope :p
10:02:46  *** Henri has quit IRC
10:05:12  <PublicServer> <V453000> seems good
10:05:32  <PublicServer> *** Yso joined the game
10:05:37  <Yso> re
10:06:00  <PublicServer> <fmauNeko> Hi Yso
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10:15:26  <Absolutis> !players
10:15:28  <PublicServer> Absolutis: Client 249 (Orange) is fmauNeko, in company 1 (Coopers #188)
10:15:28  <PublicServer> Absolutis: Client 252 (Orange) is BigB, in company 1 (Coopers #188)
10:15:28  <PublicServer> Absolutis: Client 254 (Orange) is V453000, in company 1 (Coopers #188)
10:15:28  <PublicServer> Absolutis: Client 256 (Orange) is Yso, in company 1 (Coopers #188)
10:15:32  <Absolutis> !password
10:15:32  <PublicServer> Absolutis: giggle
10:16:26  <PublicServer> *** Absolutis (FIN) joined the game
10:16:28  <PublicServer> *** Absolutis (FIN) has joined company #1
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10:21:13  <PublicServer> <Absolutis (FIN)> can you predict how many trains we end up with?
10:21:27  <PublicServer> <Absolutis (FIN)> i would predict somewhere near 700.
10:21:28  <PublicServer> <V453000> I coul do some guesses, but why
10:21:45  <PublicServer> <Absolutis (FIN)> For fun?
10:21:50  <PublicServer> <V453000> then I predict about double that amount
10:22:09  <PublicServer> <Absolutis (FIN)> abut 1400?
10:22:14  <PublicServer> <V453000> 1200 i think
10:22:30  <PublicServer> <V453000> we will see
10:22:43  <PublicServer> <V453000> look at it now
10:22:46  <PublicServer> <V453000> it is empty
10:22:53  <PublicServer> <Absolutis (FIN)> 409.
10:23:03  <PublicServer> <V453000> 350 without trainyard and stuff
10:23:11  <PublicServer> <Absolutis (FIN)> oh.
10:24:03  <PublicServer> <Absolutis (FIN)> well, after some thinking, i'll predict somewhere slightly over 1000.
10:24:10  <planetmaker> moin V453000 :-)
10:24:13  <PublicServer> <V453000> hi
10:24:20  <PublicServer> <fmauNeko> Hi pm
10:24:29  <planetmaker> moin fmauneko
10:24:39  <planetmaker> [12:21]	<PublicServer>	<V453000>  then I predict about double that amount <-- hehe. I predicted about the same :-)
10:24:46  <PublicServer> <V453000> ye
10:24:46  *** fmauneko is now known as fmauNeko
10:24:50  <PublicServer> <V453000> it is a large map
10:24:56  <PublicServer> <Absolutis (FIN)> any info about the next game?
10:24:57  <PublicServer> <V453000> and we have a lot of MLs
10:24:58  <planetmaker> great minds think alike? :-)
10:25:06  <PublicServer> <V453000> the next game comes a surprise
10:25:12  <planetmaker> Absolutis: that question starts to become boring
10:25:17  <PublicServer> <Absolutis (FIN)> ok.
10:25:21  <PublicServer> <V453000> I made a replacement map for the next one that should have been firs
10:25:33  <planetmaker> he. Enough of firs for now? :-)
10:25:44  <PublicServer> <V453000> firs once in 10 games is ok
10:25:47  <PublicServer> <Absolutis (FIN)> nope :(
10:25:49  <PublicServer> <fmauNeko> Agreed
10:25:50  <PublicServer> <V453000> but in 2 in a row :/
10:26:02  <planetmaker> yeah... it doesn't quite fit the usual coop style
10:26:09  <planetmaker> a bit unfortunately
10:26:11  <Ammler> the problem is, that you try to use everything
10:26:20  <planetmaker> :-) Or that
10:26:22  <PublicServer> <V453000> Ammler: :D
10:26:35  <PublicServer> <V453000> but yea, you are right :)
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10:26:46  <Ammler> you don't do that all the time with default industries, why you think, you need to with ECS or firs?
10:26:47  <planetmaker> Indeed one could try like farms only and a FS industry to make them grow
10:27:00  <PublicServer> <V453000> I never said we need FIRS :)
10:27:12  <planetmaker> hm... isn't there a farm economy even with FIRS?
10:27:23  <PublicServer> <V453000> are there economies already?
10:27:39  <PublicServer> <Absolutis (FIN)> i don't think the economies are implemented yet...
10:28:04  <Ammler> V453000: I meant, why do you think, you should supply every industry with firs, you could ignore some like you do in the games with default industries
10:28:10  <PublicServer> <V453000> oh that
10:28:13  <PublicServer> <Absolutis (FIN)> but i knowthere is 3 basic economies, this , mining, farming.
10:28:15  <PublicServer> <V453000> yes sure
10:28:23  <PublicServer> <V453000> but when we have FIRS, it is the challenge to do that :)
10:28:40  <PublicServer> <V453000> but yes :) I remember the last Pikka industries becoming Wood-only :D psg 170
10:29:13  <Ammler> lol
10:29:16  <PublicServer> <fmauNeko> What about an ECS game with all vectors ?
10:29:22  <PublicServer> <V453000> not with me
10:29:28  <PublicServer> <V453000> ECS is bad
10:29:29  <planetmaker> fmauNeko: too problematic IMHO
10:29:37  <planetmaker> too many restrictions
10:29:40  <PublicServer> <fmauNeko> I agree
10:29:53  <PublicServer> <V453000> planetmaker: with parameters that disable the tarded behaviours of industries it is playable
10:29:53  <Ammler> we did once with parameter 15
10:29:59  <PublicServer> <fmauNeko> I remember the huge picture of industries networks
10:30:01  <planetmaker> hm... I'll look whether I can find a farm economy for FIRS
10:30:22  <PublicServer> <V453000> well
10:30:26  <planetmaker> V453000: well... can you control everything there by parameters which is needed?
10:30:28  <PublicServer> <V453000> how do you get supplies from farms
10:30:35  <PublicServer> <V453000> I think so, yes
10:30:36  <planetmaker> for farms?
10:30:43  <PublicServer> <V453000> from farms :)
10:30:53  <planetmaker> eh?
10:30:55  <PublicServer> <V453000> or ... how does the farm economy look?
10:31:02  <planetmaker> I don't know yet
10:31:11  <planetmaker> less industries. Mostly farming-related
10:31:14  <PublicServer> <V453000> you need some oil to get chemicals for fertiliser :)
10:31:19  <planetmaker> and different cargo prices
10:31:24  <PublicServer> <V453000> ooh
10:31:28  <PublicServer> <V453000> prices :/
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10:31:44  <PublicServer> <Absolutis (FIN)> I think there is basic industries of other types.
10:32:05  <planetmaker> V453000: well. But then you have: oil, fertilizer, farms and dairy. 5 industries is not that much :-)
10:32:13  <planetmaker> or maybe additonally meat packer
10:32:14  <PublicServer> <V453000> true :)
10:32:20  <PublicServer> <V453000> but oil aint farms! :P
10:32:21  <planetmaker> so that animals are also used
10:32:33  <planetmaker> V453000: farming economy. Doesn't mean only farms :-)
10:32:38  <PublicServer> <V453000> :(
10:32:41  <planetmaker> but dominated there
10:32:44  <PublicServer> <V453000> :)
10:33:53  <planetmaker> <-- hm
10:33:55  <Webster> Title: TT Foundry: Pixel Creations for OpenTTD (at
10:34:53  <planetmaker> but quite outdated I think
10:35:05  <PublicServer> <V453000> indeed
10:35:23  <Absolutis> <--
10:35:26  <Webster> Title: TT Foundry: Pixel Creations for OpenTTD (at
10:35:33  <Absolutis> look at the top economy.
10:35:46  <V453000> well it is good
10:35:50  <VVG> hello
10:35:53  <V453000> but original is still far best :)
10:36:20  <Ammler> s/best/easiest/
10:36:27  <PublicServer> <Absolutis (FIN)> economies arent available in 2.0. they arent done yet, it says.
10:36:32  <Ammler> and not prettiest ;-)
10:36:39  <VVG> how many games you played using originals and how many using ecs/firs? sure not enough to get enough xp :)
10:37:04  <PublicServer> <Absolutis (FIN)> i play firs for many of my games.
10:37:08  <planetmaker> Absolutis: yes, that's what's standing there
10:37:18  <planetmaker> But I know how the code works :-P
10:37:18  <Ammler> VVG: maybe the fact that we don't use those is the experience ;-)
10:37:24  <V453000> I used to play older firs, didnt play 2.0 yet :)
10:37:43  <planetmaker> yeah. I only played 0.1.2 and 0.2 :-)
10:37:45  <V453000> Ammler: true, but I still like how it looks :)
10:38:04  <V453000> I mostly played the pre-1.0 revisions
10:38:09  <PublicServer> <Absolutis (FIN)> i have played firs since r3xx.
10:38:15  <VVG> he
10:38:15  <planetmaker> psst. There's no 1.x
10:38:16  <Ammler> maybe with next firs release, we should play 10 firs games in a row or so...
10:38:22  <planetmaker> there's only 0.x.y
10:38:24  <V453000> whatever :)
10:38:35  <VVG> i played only decent FIRS game, started at r913 of FIRS
10:39:26  <PublicServer> <Absolutis (FIN)> Slh11 was at a target of a pretty large amount of traffic some time ago.
10:39:55  <PublicServer> <Absolutis (FIN)> it's not anything compared to finished games, ofcourse...
10:40:03  <VVG> once i understood how the supplies thing works, i found it interesting at first, easy a bit later :)
10:40:31  <Ammler> for SP, ECS is more challenge
10:40:36  <PublicServer> <V453000> in this regard ECS is better
10:40:50  <PublicServer> <V453000> the supplies should be consumed over time imo
10:42:25  <VVG> it needs some combination of consuming over time, amounts consumed per production level and station service rating to make it hard :p
10:44:40  <planetmaker> V453000: how is that better?
10:44:52  <V453000> it depends how much you deliver then
10:45:00  <V453000> not only how often
10:45:52  <planetmaker> well... effectively it amounts to the same in ECS: its consumption speed depends upon the amount delivered
10:45:58  <planetmaker> as such you need to supply it also every so often
10:46:28  <planetmaker> and additionally you run out of stock before the month is over and then you're screwed again...
10:46:40  <PublicServer> <V453000> well
10:46:48  <planetmaker> I think supplying things once a month is not really difficult
10:46:50  <PublicServer> <V453000> if you deliver 500 supplies, it could last for some time
10:47:31  <PublicServer> <V453000> btw why does 2cc set have so high-capacity wagons? I dont see any reason :(
10:47:48  <PublicServer> <V453000> 30-40 is normal ... 60 is retarded imo
10:47:57  <VVG> turn off vehicle expire :)
10:48:05  <PublicServer> <V453000> but still
10:48:13  <PublicServer> <V453000> you have short wagons with ... 35? capacity
10:48:56  <VVG> Seems like 2cc creators didn't think you'd need low capacity wagons for end-game
10:49:01  <VVG> using FIRS
10:49:12  <PublicServer> <V453000> that doesnt matter
10:49:24  <PublicServer> <V453000> the point is, all other trainsets have 30-40
10:49:31  <PublicServer> <V453000> why 2cc set needs more
10:49:52  <PublicServer> <V453000> I understand in case of japan set, where it is slightly higher because trains arent faster than 120
10:50:30  <VVG> i actually like higher capacity, leads to less trains -> less congestion -> more stuff to connect
10:50:52  <PublicServer> <V453000> well
10:50:55  <PublicServer> <V453000> that is true indeed
10:50:58  <PublicServer> <V453000> But
10:51:05  <PublicServer> <V453000> I am rather talking about balance between trainsets
10:51:23  <VVG> they aren't supposed to be balanced inbetween, afaik
10:51:32  <PublicServer> <V453000> omg no
10:51:49  <PublicServer> <V453000> but why would you make trainset that has double
10:51:56  <PublicServer> <V453000> that just doesnt make sense to me
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10:52:11  <PublicServer> <V453000> even the previous 2cc had 49? capacities
10:52:13  <planetmaker> why would one do what all others do, V453000 ?
10:52:14  <VVG> i see alteast one sufficient reason - because there was none before mb
10:52:15  <PublicServer> <V453000> now even higher? ew
10:52:28  <PublicServer> <V453000> planetmaker: because the game works with it best
10:52:49  <VVG> it does?
10:52:53  <planetmaker> I don't see that
10:52:59  <PublicServer> <V453000> well
10:53:22  <PublicServer> <V453000> depends of course, but original industries are imo best with 30-40 wagons
10:53:25  <PublicServer> <V453000> and that is another retarded thing
10:53:42  <PublicServer> <V453000> for example ECS tends to skyrocket 1000+ production very fast
10:53:51  <planetmaker> the 60t capacity is only late in the game. And then you can already have quite high-production mines
10:54:01  <PublicServer> <V453000> and again, makes it weird with normal trainsets ... there would 2cc be understandable
10:54:28  <VVG> well, this high capacity is very good for 0.2 FIRS in fact. You get a lot of mines with stable 500-1k production here, depending on type.
10:55:39  <PublicServer> <V453000> planetmaker: yea, I understand, but what is the fun of late game? that it is HARD as fuck because the productions incnreased. ... but when you just solve it by double train capacity, you suddenly have effectively half trains and again, you solve for people - which in my opinion is a negative effect to gameplay
10:56:21  <planetmaker> V453000: I disagree
10:56:40  <VVG> i don't have much xp with default industries. How often you get there primaries with production values 500-1k?
10:56:51  <planetmaker> If you play alone, it's IMHO a pain to constantly have to tend everything, you cannot do as much maintenance as would be required
10:56:56  <PublicServer> <V453000> VVG: depends how long you play :)
10:56:58  <planetmaker> Just upgrading trains is IMHO a good option
10:57:13  <PublicServer> <V453000> I always managed to tend everything
10:57:26  <PublicServer> <V453000> yes, upgrading trains
10:57:32  <PublicServer> <V453000> but lets look the other way
10:57:41  <PublicServer> <V453000> see for example Tropic Refurbishment Set
10:57:45  <PublicServer> <V453000> or UKRS
10:57:58  <PublicServer> <V453000> both have very weak capacities
10:58:09  <PublicServer> <V453000> and then they get to 30-40 in the end
10:58:16  <PublicServer> <V453000> so it still is fun
10:58:21  <PublicServer> <V453000> you still upgrade
10:58:34  <PublicServer> <V453000> but you do not reach such ridiculous values
10:58:56  <planetmaker> well. Then just don't upgrade to the 60t wagons with 2cctrainset. And I don't see how 60 is ridiculous
10:59:07  <PublicServer> <V453000> because it is double?
10:59:26  <PublicServer> <V453000> and "just dont upgrade" is something like "just use Kirby"
10:59:36  <planetmaker> yes. If you like
11:00:03  <planetmaker> you're not required to use any vehicle. You play without expiry anyway, do you?
11:00:10  <PublicServer> <V453000> of course
11:00:24  <PublicServer> <V453000> but I always use the best one of course
11:00:26  <planetmaker> you don't build always maglev in default games neither, do you?
11:00:42  <PublicServer> <V453000> I have finished only 1 game with maglev :)
11:00:48  <planetmaker> so... because the newest, most expensive wagon is not what you think it should be, it is crap? Come on...
11:00:57  <PublicServer> <V453000> damn
11:01:01  <PublicServer> <V453000> it isnt that I dont want to use it
11:01:04  <PublicServer> <V453000> that isnt the point
11:01:30  <PublicServer> <V453000> the point I see is as I said, it makes it easy for people, therefore makes less requirements on traffic throughput
11:01:43  <VVG> some want it easy
11:01:48  <PublicServer> <V453000> making people think LESS ... I like to compare this to PBS
11:02:00  <VVG> and some don't want to think :)
11:02:06  <planetmaker> V453000: obviously you don't like it. Maybe you consider it easy. Allow other people to play differently than you.
11:02:09  <PublicServer> <V453000> PBS is one of the biggest evil that killed a vast part of newby people
11:02:16  <planetmaker> YOU can play it difficult. Just limit yourself
11:02:21  <planetmaker> But don't require others to think alike
11:02:25  <PublicServer> <V453000> I doubt it is about the difference
11:02:55  <planetmaker> [13:02]	<PublicServer>	<V453000>  PBS is one of the biggest evil that killed a vast part of newby people <-- eh?
11:03:07  <PublicServer> <V453000> ever looked how new people play?
11:03:40  <PublicServer> *** Absolutis (FIN) has joined company #1
11:03:46  <PublicServer> <V453000> mostly not understanding how the signal blocks work, using only PBS, of course then they have no idea what is wrong
11:03:59  <PublicServer> <V453000> particularly now with the "yet another PBS bug" FS
11:04:05  <planetmaker> V453000: do you think that it changed how 'new' people play?
11:04:10  <PublicServer> <V453000> it did
11:04:50  <PublicServer> <V453000> just imagine that you have to somehow merge 2 tracks
11:04:55  <PublicServer> <V453000> what do you do with PBS?
11:04:58  <PublicServer> <V453000> cross, PBS, done.
11:05:09  <PublicServer> <V453000> but with block signals you actually have to use brain
11:05:09  <VVG> so much easier
11:05:15  <planetmaker> well. Before it was: cross. signal. done
11:05:25  <PublicServer> <V453000> well, yes
11:05:28  <PublicServer> <Absolutis (FIN)> :D
11:05:33  <PublicServer> <V453000> but that is similar to double tunnels
11:05:40  <PublicServer> <V453000> in time you see that it just doesnt suffice
11:05:56  <planetmaker> so, path signals are better, if it doesn't show ;-)
11:05:58  <PublicServer> <V453000> but with PBS crossing, you think it is best because 2 trains can pass at a time
11:06:23  <VVG> isn't that a good thing?
11:06:34  <planetmaker> and they ARE more efficient than dumb-ass signal configurations
11:06:35  <PublicServer> <V453000> it is in terms of throughput of that particular place
11:06:44  <PublicServer> <V453000> efficient, ok
11:06:46  <PublicServer> <V453000> but
11:06:53  <planetmaker> you really need to understand block signals well to make it better than a dumb-ass path signal entry
11:07:08  <PublicServer> <V453000> well
11:07:13  <PublicServer> <V453000> why to compare the way how they work
11:07:15  <PublicServer> <V453000> that doesnt matter
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11:07:44  <PublicServer> <V453000> also if it didnt kill people from thinking, they might be able to use presignals properly in time?
11:07:45  *** heffer has quit IRC
11:07:50  <PublicServer> <V453000> therefore making similar effectiveness
11:08:31  <VVG> but they might not want to use presignals properly
11:08:34  <planetmaker> "in former times everything was better"?
11:08:43  <PublicServer> <V453000> planetmaker: pretty much
11:08:46  <planetmaker> You sound like a grand-pa taling about his youth
11:08:50  <planetmaker> *talking
11:09:00  <VVG> PBS is good for simple solutions
11:09:07  <PublicServer> <V453000> well basically it would make sense planetmaker
11:09:15  <VVG> And complex solutions is just not everyone's thing
11:09:18  <PublicServer> <V453000> so far devs look like solving for people is the way
11:09:35  <PublicServer> <V453000> VVG: but when you use PBS ALL the time, you just cant do anything complex
11:09:52  <VVG> why? you do, someesle might do too
11:10:11  <V453000> all only PBS signals
11:10:12  <planetmaker> [13:09]	<PublicServer>	<V453000>  so far devs look like solving for people is the way <-- hardly.
11:10:16  <PublicServer> <fmauNeko> Back
11:10:22  <planetmaker> But accessibility is a good thing to design for
11:10:30  <planetmaker> Making it easy for people to catch on
11:10:31  <V453000> you seen this?
11:10:37  <V453000> that just doesnt make sense
11:11:12  <V453000> as far as I understand what is going on there, they fixed some PBS behaviour so the logics of it are sometimes violated
11:11:19  <V453000> of course breaking more than fixed
11:11:40  <V453000> and resulting in working with senseless newby construction
11:12:04  <PublicServer> *** Absolutis (FIN) has left the game (leaving)
11:12:14  <Absolutis> playing civ, again.
11:12:15  <V453000> or rather, this FS task is only the result of it
11:13:43  <Yso> i have a question regarding how firs works: how many supplies does it take to get an increase on production at the primaries?
11:13:52  <VVG> 1t per month
11:14:15  <planetmaker> V453000: so... what's the point you take from that FS task?
11:14:27  <VVG> they don't increasy right away, they only get a chance to do so
11:14:35  <planetmaker> Yso: it needs 1t in order to get a _chance_ for a production increase
11:14:37  <V453000> planetmaker: you know how the bug was done?
11:14:48  <VVG> thouhg, if they have supplies, they loose a chane to lower production, so they only grow
11:15:04  <planetmaker> V453000: I haven't read it all nor followed it completely what the issue is. But it seems PF for _lost_ trains
11:15:13  <V453000> well yes
11:15:29  <planetmaker> which is and has been somewhat undefined behaviour
11:15:30  <Yso> well i deliver ~70t FS / month to a mixed farm and its production does only change up and down by 2t
11:15:30  <V453000> PF somehow related to PBS ... breaking with lost trains
11:15:45  <planetmaker> with lost trains they have no defined route
11:15:48  <VVG> Farms have very very low production as per design.
11:15:54  <V453000> well okay
11:15:55  <VVG> 70t is way overkill, 1t is enough :)
11:15:55  <planetmaker> And re-defining the undefined ... what#s wrong with that
11:16:13  <V453000> but still they dont have to go ito the back of a oneway PBS signal endlessly anytime they get lost is kinda bad
11:16:15  <planetmaker> yes, it will break games who rely on undefined behaviour
11:16:29  <V453000> not only those
11:16:50  <V453000> also if a train for example autoreplaces in a depot it cant find path from, it is lost, gone, blocked in the depot
11:17:03  <V453000> easiest thing in the world to achieve
11:17:30  <VVG> but it is easy to solve - make a proper way from depot, right?
11:17:37  <V453000> and all this only because something like this was fixed : maybe not exactly this but similar
11:17:45  <V453000> VVG: there is a way from the depot
11:17:57  <V453000> but the train would have to turn around somewhere or such
11:18:14  <V453000> imagine a line, going away to a coal mine ... and at the coal mine you have a depot
11:18:28  <V453000> it goes to the depot to autoreplace because it is close
11:18:37  <V453000> but trains ignore "can I get also away from the depot?"
11:19:01  <V453000> tbh I dont know how exactly does searching for the autoreplace depot work
11:19:05  <V453000> but it happens
11:19:25  <VVG> well, it is a network design flaw then
11:19:49  <V453000> ever looked at how 99.9% people build?
11:19:54  <VVG> or a pathfinder, if you want to modify PF instead of network :)
11:20:06  <VVG> no
11:20:14  <V453000> pathfinder is fine, PBS only dodges back to the 1way
11:20:20  <VVG> i found coop long ago, no need to look at others' work :p
11:20:52  <V453000> well when you build and have ANY sort of ML (just line where is high traffic, doesnt have tobe anything like our ML) ... then you probably will not place depots there because they slow
11:21:00  <V453000> so what you do? place them on the station spokes
11:21:05  <V453000> and yes, they block :)
11:21:48  <V453000> the point is rather WHY does this exits
11:21:51  <V453000> exist
11:22:01  <planetmaker> V453000: you basically complain about subtleties of the game changing and as such things which rely on them break
11:22:05  <planetmaker> oh well.
11:22:20  <planetmaker> asking for no changes, is basically asking for bugs to remain un-fixed
11:22:29  <V453000> I dont ask for no changes
11:22:39  <V453000> but particularly this one should be reverted imo
11:22:51  <V453000> most of the changes are awesome
11:22:54  <planetmaker> which "this"?
11:23:13  <planetmaker> two-way red = EOL no-more?
11:23:14  <V453000> this PBS thing?
11:23:33  <V453000> yes, something like that it does
11:24:51  <V453000> I never had problems with PBS before and as well people who use them normally .... but now PBS is really dangerous
11:25:34  <V453000> and since everything else supports PBS usage, it is quite bad
11:25:50  <planetmaker> I still didn't get which change you consider 'dangerous'
11:26:32  <V453000> that they block themselves in PBS areas when they just go against 1way PBS signal?
11:26:39  <V453000> it can block forever
11:26:42  <V453000> without any real reason
11:27:35  <planetmaker> you mean the "waiting for free path"?
11:27:40  <planetmaker> when a train turned?
11:27:53  <V453000> nah
11:27:54  <planetmaker> that's a setting you can change.
11:28:08  <V453000> imagine a terminus PBS station with 3 platforms
11:28:18  <V453000> train comes, drops, goes back
11:28:33  <V453000> but at the point of going back, it sometimes go right into the entrance
11:28:40  <V453000> of course turning around, trying again
11:28:45  <planetmaker> can you - for illustration purposes - create the situation ingame?
11:28:46  <VVG> eh?
11:28:54  <V453000> planetmaker: not sure
11:28:54  <VVG> Even if entrance is 1w pbs?
11:29:01  <V453000> VVG, exactly
11:29:03  <planetmaker> if you can't it doesn't exist :-P
11:29:12  <VVG> How come?
11:29:16  <V453000>
11:29:18  <V453000> see this for example
11:29:41  <VVG> this picture shows nothing
11:29:42  <V453000> VVG: because there was something "fixed" violating some safe-tile waiting positions or such
11:29:46  <V453000> doesnt it
11:29:48  <VVG> some one might have just messed with trains
11:29:52  <planetmaker> ^
11:30:02  <V453000> VVG: then how did the train get there
11:30:09  <planetmaker> the train cannot have gone there by itself w/o someone messing with signals intermittently
11:30:14  <VVG> some one messed with trains
11:30:20  <V453000> planetmaker: but it did
11:30:23  <V453000> that is the point
11:30:28  <planetmaker> then show me ingame
11:31:07  <planetmaker> if it works, I agree, it should not happen
11:31:33  <PublicServer> <V453000> lets see if I can reproduce it but I never tried to
11:31:35  <planetmaker> hm... maybe it can happen
11:31:49  <planetmaker> but probably not w/o someone touching the network
11:31:58  <planetmaker> and then these things happen with all kind of signals
11:32:17  <V453000> in "normal" case
11:32:20  <VVG> i don't see how it can happen without messing up train orders and/or signalling, or some other network parts
11:32:22  <V453000> the train would take the 1way path
11:32:34  <V453000> VVG: because the train went against the 1way
11:32:36  <planetmaker> V453000: yes. Unless there's no way to the destination
11:32:42  <V453000> of course not being able to go through
11:32:45  <planetmaker> then it might take any. As it's lost
11:32:56  <V453000> kind of
11:33:01  <planetmaker> which is no bug
11:33:11  <planetmaker> as you messed with  the network
11:33:21  <V453000> but even lost trains still go through signals, and obey some kind of eol
11:33:26  <planetmaker> which then would be bad network design
11:33:28  <VVG> they don't
11:33:50  <planetmaker> V453000: lost trains just proceed *somewhere*
11:34:05  <PublicServer> <V453000> yes but it is controllable by 2way eol and normal signals
11:34:06  <planetmaker> and only obey red / not red on the immediate signal ahead
11:34:33  <PublicServer> <V453000>  success
11:34:34  <planetmaker> at a split they take *any* direction, wether wise or not
11:34:38  <PublicServer> <V453000> I managed to reproduce :)
11:34:44  <VVG> share it please
11:34:49  <PublicServer> <V453000> see ingame
11:34:55  <VVG> !password
11:34:55  <PublicServer> VVG: taping
11:35:06  <V453000> planetmaker: well
11:35:08  <V453000> that is the point
11:35:11  <PublicServer> *** VVG joined the game
11:35:13  <PublicServer> <VVG> where?
11:35:18  <V453000> the "signal ahead" is the thing that makes trouble
11:35:25  <PublicServer> *** planetm4ker joined the game
11:35:27  <planetmaker> V453000: not really
11:35:30  <PublicServer> <V453000>     !pbs retardiness
11:35:30  <planetmaker> where?
11:35:34  <PublicServer> <V453000> see
11:35:41  <PublicServer> <V453000> it goes to the station to the left
11:35:49  <PublicServer> <V453000> lets say it just went there for service or whatever similar
11:35:56  <PublicServer> <planetm4ker> ok, where's the problem?
11:35:58  <PublicServer> <V453000> well
11:36:02  <PublicServer> <V453000> it will never get there?
11:36:08  <PublicServer> <V453000> with the older PBS it always did :)
11:36:18  <PublicServer> <VVG> train is lost, ain't it?
11:36:19  <PublicServer> <planetm4ker> it's lost
11:36:21  <PublicServer> <V453000> yes
11:36:30  <PublicServer> <V453000> but why shouldnt it work now when it did before
11:36:31  <PublicServer> <planetm4ker> where's the problem then?
11:36:42  <PublicServer> <V453000> problem is that before it worked
11:36:51  <PublicServer> <V453000> and you cant solve this
11:36:51  <PublicServer> <planetm4ker> hm
11:37:00  <PublicServer> <V453000> from what I saw why the bug is
11:37:10  <PublicServer> <planetm4ker> see
11:37:20  <PublicServer> <planetm4ker> a path solves it
11:37:22  <PublicServer> <V453000> all that was needed was to build a PBS station that just makes sense
11:37:25  <PublicServer> <V453000> yes path solves it
11:37:39  <PublicServer> <V453000> but who has paths fom every depot everywhere
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11:38:05  <PublicServer> <VVG> well, now everyone wil have if the don't want stuck trains :)
11:38:12  <PublicServer> <V453000> they wont
11:38:18  <PublicServer> <V453000> they will not know how to fix
11:38:36  <PublicServer> <planetm4ker> V453000: that's not an intrinsic path signal problem you describe
11:38:45  <PublicServer> <planetm4ker> it's how generally OpenTTD's path finders work
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11:38:55  <PublicServer> <planetm4ker> they simply don't consider paths with 180° turns
11:39:06  <PublicServer> <V453000> I dont have any clue how pathfinder works
11:39:09  <PublicServer> <planetm4ker> IMHO you complain about the wrong thing
11:39:17  <PublicServer> <V453000> I say this change makes more problems than any use
11:39:35  <PublicServer> <planetm4ker> no. It just uncovers a small short-coming in the path finders
11:40:22  <PublicServer> <planetm4ker> eh... what insane construction is that?
11:40:38  <PublicServer> <planetm4ker> oh... saw the signal wrong-way :-)
11:40:45  <PublicServer> <V453000> something like this was supposed to be fixed
11:40:50  <PublicServer> <V453000> I dont know exactly what
11:40:57  <PublicServer> <V453000> but the solution is simple
11:41:17  <PublicServer> <planetm4ker> to what? And how?
11:41:18  <PublicServer> <V453000> just "place signals that make sense"
11:41:27  <PublicServer> <V453000> that the trains didnt pass
11:41:37  <PublicServer> *** Mazur joined the game
11:41:44  <PublicServer> <V453000> because the PBS safetile is in the end
11:41:49  <PublicServer> <V453000> of course ...
11:41:57  <PublicServer> <V453000> as I said
11:42:02  <PublicServer> <V453000> I dont know how exactly it works
11:42:07  <PublicServer> <V453000> but I say it is a bad change :)
11:42:16  <PublicServer> <V453000> or at least,
11:42:19  <PublicServer> <V453000> makes bad things
11:42:25  <PublicServer> <V453000> and now I gotta get some lunch :p
11:42:29  <PublicServer> <planetm4ker> I don't really see a problem
11:42:33  <PublicServer> <planetm4ker> with neither setup
11:42:34  <PublicServer> <V453000> we aint getting anywhere anyways
11:42:46  <PublicServer> <planetm4ker> how should the circle now behave?
11:42:49  <PublicServer> <V453000> so that blocked train in Knudsvall Sidings is ok in your opinion
11:43:08  <PublicServer> <V453000> the circle ... Idk I though they would enter the station although it doesnt make sense
11:43:10  <PublicServer> <planetm4ker> V453000: somewhat yes
11:43:13  <PublicServer> <VVG> the setup is broken. Are you saying that change you posted a link to was supposed to make this setup work?
11:43:26  <PublicServer> <planetm4ker> the only sane solution I see is to extend the PFs
11:43:29  <PublicServer> <V453000> VVG: it always used to work
11:43:37  <PublicServer> <VVG> How come?
11:43:44  <PublicServer> <V453000> well
11:43:45  <PublicServer> <V453000> it did
11:43:50  <PublicServer> <V453000> but now something is different
11:43:51  <PublicServer> <planetm4ker> V453000: yes. A bug which concealed a bug
11:43:52  <PublicServer> <V453000> so it doesnt
11:43:59  <PublicServer> <VVG> There is onlu one safe tile, shared between both platforms
11:44:00  <PublicServer> <V453000> pretty much as planetmaker says
11:44:17  <PublicServer> <planetm4ker> As I said: making it work sanely, uncovers just that trains are lost if they have no direct route to a destination
11:44:17  <PublicServer> <V453000> VVG: ignore the circle
11:44:27  <PublicServer> <planetm4ker> so I consider all two cases ok
11:44:32  <PublicServer> <V453000> I dont
11:44:42  <PublicServer> <V453000> because trains can get lost way too easily
11:44:51  <PublicServer> <V453000> just picking a wrong depot for example
11:44:54  <PublicServer> <planetm4ker> but I do agree that the KnudsvallSidings case would be nice to work in the case of the option "trains turn at EOL and in stations" activated
11:45:09  <PublicServer> <V453000> ye
11:45:10  <PublicServer> <planetm4ker> V453000: so ... you want it easy?
11:45:19  <PublicServer> <planetm4ker> I thought you want it hard, so that people need to think?
11:45:21  <PublicServer> <V453000> it isnt about easiness
11:45:21  <PublicServer> <VVG> :)
11:45:38  <PublicServer> *** VVG has left the game (leaving)
11:45:49  <PublicServer> <V453000> well think .. the source of the problem was making people think less if I am right
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11:46:20  <PublicServer> <V453000> but sure, more complex network with all connection solves
11:46:32  <PublicServer> <V453000> but why would you make connections you do not need
11:46:40  <PublicServer> <V453000> only in case trains get in a wrong depot
11:46:45  <PublicServer> <V453000> sure, do not make wrong depots :)
11:46:54  <VVG> Because pathfinder is not perfect :(
11:47:00  <PublicServer> <planetm4ker> V453000: you don't need to do that. Just add go via orders
11:47:16  <PublicServer> <V453000> what will go via solve?
11:47:23  <PublicServer> <V453000> or ... how do you mean?
11:48:43  <PublicServer> <V453000> oh, btw ... the person of CS rails did read my message ... didnt reply so far
11:48:52  <PublicServer> <planetm4ker> ok :S
11:48:57  <PublicServer> <V453000> oh this via
11:48:58  <PublicServer> <planetm4ker> I meant orders like now
11:49:01  <PublicServer> <V453000> well
11:49:06  <PublicServer> <V453000> ok but
11:49:51  <PublicServer> <V453000> now imagine the orders
11:50:04  <PublicServer> <V453000> would be like this
11:50:12  <PublicServer> <V453000> train is returning from drop
11:50:15  <PublicServer> <V453000> and goes autoreplace
11:50:24  <PublicServer> <V453000> woo, fucked
11:50:26  <PublicServer> <planetm4ker> yes. Network design flaw
11:50:26  <PublicServer> <V453000> wha
11:50:41  <PublicServer> <V453000> well
11:50:42  <PublicServer> <V453000> yes
11:50:53  <PublicServer> <V453000> but it makes trains just more dumb than before :)
11:50:54  <PublicServer> <planetm4ker> don't place your depots on the wrong track
11:51:03  <PublicServer> <V453000> well I dont
11:51:12  <PublicServer> <V453000> be sure people will :p
11:51:16  <PublicServer> <planetm4ker> of course
11:51:20  <PublicServer> <V453000> also it would break overflows I think
11:51:21  <PublicServer> <planetm4ker> one can always screw up
11:51:40  <PublicServer> <planetm4ker> it changed how some things work.
11:51:48  <PublicServer> <V453000> without a doubt
11:51:51  <PublicServer> <V453000> but in a bad way :)
11:51:52  <PublicServer> <planetm4ker> But it doesn't make it bad as it made things behave more consistently
11:51:55  <PublicServer> <planetm4ker> and logically
11:52:18  <PublicServer> <V453000> well I know what you mean but I still want it reverted :D
11:52:28  <PublicServer> <planetm4ker> won't happen. And luckily so
11:52:33  <PublicServer> <V453000> too bad I can not make the "reason" that didnt work before and now does
11:53:09  <PublicServer> <V453000> because the "fix" doesnt truly make sense
11:53:19  <PublicServer> <planetm4ker> it does
11:53:26  <V453000> not in this case
11:53:33  <V453000> in the other
11:53:39  <PublicServer> <planetm4ker> in most cases, though
11:53:54  <V453000> Vitus would know it
11:54:00  <V453000> we can ask him later
11:54:05  <V453000> I think he is back on Sunday
11:54:11  <V453000> ... he went to France
11:55:24  <V453000> anyways, lunch time already :p
11:55:27  <V453000> laters
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12:00:25  <PublicServer> <fmauNeko> I tried to do an overflow with PF trap in another game, and it won't work, the trains prefer to wait at the red entry signal. Do I missed a config param ?
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12:03:06  <PublicServer> <Mazur> V453000: Vitus found a hotel with WiFi, he was here last night.
12:03:07  <V453000> fmauNeko: I would have to see it :)
12:03:18  <V453000> Mazur: I know, he told me
12:04:25  <VVG> fmauNeko: red twoway eol settiong should be set to true in config
12:04:53  <VVG> it's off by default since sometime, more on that was in the forums
12:05:06  <V453000> VVG: I think there rather is an issue that htere actually is an entry signal :)
12:05:18  <V453000> doesnt have to be an issue though :)
12:05:21  <V453000> if done welll
12:05:28  <V453000> as I said, I would need to see it :)
12:05:31  <VVG> well, if it is one way signal...
12:06:45  <V453000> no matter
12:07:07  <V453000> really, cant say exactly :) the possibilities are a bit too wide from what we know :p
12:07:08  <VVG> how so?
12:07:11  <fmauNeko> V453000:
12:07:38  <V453000> ugh
12:07:48  <V453000> then it is yapf.twoway.eol
12:07:52  <VVG> i guess you have the setting set to false
12:07:56  <V453000> !rcon set yapf.twoway.eol
12:07:56  <PublicServer> V453000: 'yapf.twoway.eol' is an unknown setting.
12:07:59  <V453000> hmf
12:08:02  <VVG> pf.
12:08:07  <VVG> not yapf i think
12:08:20  <V453000> yapf.rail_firstred_twoway_eol = [true | false]
12:08:33  <planetmaker> VVG: it'd work if there'd be an entry signal and a choice between the track to the station and the track to the depot
12:08:44  <VVG> wrong i was
12:08:44  <VVG> yapf.rail_firstred_twoway_eol
12:09:26  <V453000> as planetmaker says would work too of course :)
12:09:28  <planetmaker> VVG: but honestly: just give it a usual choice with pre-signals...
12:09:35  <V453000> depends how you make the overflow
12:09:38  <VVG> eh?
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12:10:05  <V453000> planetmaker: doesnt matter :)
12:10:15  <V453000> as long as eol i on of course :)
12:10:17  <planetmaker> VVG: an exit signal on the track which leads to the depot
12:10:18  <fmauNeko> That was the issue, thanks :p
12:10:56  <Macha> !password
12:10:56  <PublicServer> Macha: loaves
12:11:06  <VVG> planetmaker: i learned my overflows, such as shown in neko's picture, in this game already, thanks to Vitus )
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12:11:31  <planetmaker> VVG: yes... and I should have addressed fmauNeko and not you :-P
12:11:39  <planetmaker> sorry ;-)
12:12:37  <fmauNeko> :)
12:12:53  <VVG> What os is that in picture?
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12:13:53  <planetmaker> linux
12:13:54  <V453000> facebook os
12:14:11  <fmauNeko> Ubuntu 10.04 :p
12:14:20  <VVG> hehe
12:14:27  <Macha> They screwed up the window buttons there :P
12:14:44  <planetmaker> Macha: not at all. They copied OSX
12:14:53  <fmauNeko> Yep :p
12:14:59  <planetmaker> Nearly to the pixel
12:15:10  <fmauNeko> I still prefer OSX
12:15:21  <planetmaker> he
12:15:22  <PublicServer> <Macha> Consistency is nice... They've had the convention for years, why change it?
12:15:30  <Tray> !password
12:15:30  <PublicServer> Tray: proton
12:15:31  <fmauNeko> But i'm not home, and I didn't brought the 27" iMac with me : d
12:15:38  <planetmaker> Macha: which convention?
12:15:59  <PublicServer> <Macha> Right side menu buttons - Ubuntu always had them, so do nearly all Linux distros by default.
12:16:12  <PublicServer> <Macha> And then they changed it in 10.04
12:16:14  <PublicServer> *** Tray joined the game
12:16:25  <planetmaker> Macha: they chose the nicer UI
12:16:29  <PublicServer> <Macha> I'm still mixing minimise and maximise up. Course doesn't help that I use Arch a lot now.
12:16:52  <planetmaker> hm... I work on both. I have no difficulty whatsoever
12:17:03  <planetmaker> but then... I mostly close windows here by means of cmd+w
12:17:07  <planetmaker> or cmd+q
12:17:11  <PublicServer> <Macha> Nicer how? It seems arbitrary.
12:17:42  <planetmaker> Macha: I assume they used other OSX features not visible in the screeny, too ;-)
12:17:44  <VVG> planetmaker: will you be updating server to newer nightly? i saw some fix for desyncs
12:17:54  <planetmaker> VVG: might make sense
12:18:16  <PublicServer> <Macha> planetmaker: They didn't copy any features, just made a theme more like OS X
12:18:17  <theholyduck> i never really got why people use ubuntu on a daily basis
12:18:25  <theholyduck> i mean sure, trainingwheels is nice if you're a bit slow on the uptake
12:18:36  <theholyduck> but why would you continue using them for more than a few days?
12:18:51  <PublicServer> <Macha> theholyduck: Because it works. Unlike say Arch, which took 20 minutes to get wifi.
12:19:15  <fmauNeko> Because I'm lazy enough to not reformat my drive
12:19:26  <VVG> huh?
12:19:29  <theholyduck> well arch is weird anyway
12:19:43  <theholyduck> its like they intentionally designed a distro thats completely unusable without user created packages
12:19:49  <theholyduck> arch without aur is impossible
12:19:55  <fmauNeko> agreed
12:20:18  <fmauNeko> But thanks to yaourt, aur is more integrated in the system : d
12:20:19  <Absolutis> !password
12:20:19  <PublicServer> Absolutis: proton
12:20:30  <PublicServer> <Macha> I know. One of my friends is Arch-obsessive. He got me to try it. It's on my laptop, but I wouldn't put it on a new system.
12:20:37  <Absolutis> Damn you jon :D
12:20:42  <PublicServer> <Macha> fmauNeko: I use clyde here
12:20:51  <theholyduck> well my point was, you could always try debian,
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12:21:05  <theholyduck> its essentially ubuntu, but without all the annoying broken and nonstandard stuff they add for trainingwheels
12:21:40  <fmauNeko> My 2 servers are running debian :p
12:21:54  <PublicServer> <Macha> My server is running Ubuntu :P
12:22:18  <theholyduck> the other advantage to debian is you can run squeeze or sid
12:22:25  <theholyduck> rolling releases is just so much more awesome
12:23:26  <fmauNeko> Macha: Clyde seems good, but Yaourt is french :p
12:24:32  <Macha> An annoyance, which might just be my bad luck, is the linux drivers for my ati graphics card _all_ suck :(
12:24:34  <VVG> If a station is one tile shorter than TL, how much of an effect it has on train's loading/unloadin speed?
12:24:51  <PublicServer> <Absolutis (FIN)> none
12:25:10  <planetmaker> Absolutis: of course it has
12:25:18  <Macha> radeonhd: totally unusuable - lags while scrolling IRC. radeon: 3d games just don't run. fglrx: Slow, if not as bad as radeonhd.
12:25:30  <PublicServer> <Absolutis (FIN)> I did't know that.
12:26:11  <VVG> But, how big that effect is?
12:27:24  <theholyduck> VVG, i dont remember the exact percentage
12:27:26  <theholyduck> but it is pretty high
12:27:42  <fmauNeko> Macha: which ones ?
12:27:52  <planetmaker> Absolutis: that was obvious
12:27:57  <fmauNeko> I use radeon there, everything works
12:28:03  <planetmaker> but I don't know how big the effect is
12:28:33  <Macha> Oh, by the way, do I count as a "usual suspect" yet?
12:28:42  <planetmaker> Macha: if you want
12:28:44  <planetmaker> :-)
12:29:00  <planetmaker> no one needs express permission to add oneself to the list
12:29:07  <planetmaker> actually everyone is welcome to do so
12:29:44  <VVG> meh, i thought it would be nice in roro setups, if you could do some fancy logic to let train into braking space before a station right after a train in station starts moving :)
12:29:45  <PublicServer> <Tray> I have a question about my SLH 04, the prios does only penalty to one of the bridge tracks, is that a huge disadvantage?
12:29:59  <Macha> fmauNeko: Guild Wars, L4D2, EVE. EVE and Guild Wars get a splash screen, L4D2 just doesn't display anything. They work (albeit pathetically) under fglrx. All under wine
12:30:43  <fmauNeko> That's why I keep a dual-boot
12:31:00  <planetmaker> ah... VVG that was once tested
12:31:02  <fmauNeko> But I don't play big games on this computer anymore, I use the iMac :p
12:31:11  <VVG> and the result was?
12:31:18  <planetmaker> it turned AFAIK out that it's not advantegous to make trains too long
12:31:31  <planetmaker> like 10 ... 20% less through-put
12:31:53  <planetmaker> *
12:31:56  <VVG> and with 5TL for example the lower loading speed penalty is too big?
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12:32:06  <planetmaker> maybe... just maybe there was a blog article about it. Not sure though
12:32:12  <planetmaker> yes, IIRC
12:32:46  <planetmaker> I mean... build a small test-setup and give it a try
12:33:06  <planetmaker> But... make sure that you actually include loading / unloading in the test
12:33:15  <planetmaker> e.g. build it next to a coal mine or so
12:33:17  <VVG> that is the hardest part :)
12:33:19  <planetmaker> and ship coal in a circle
12:33:43  <planetmaker> one station with the too short tracks, the other one tile longer
12:33:44  <PublicServer> <Absolutis (FIN)> afk
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12:33:49  <planetmaker> you'll see where the jam will be
12:34:12  <planetmaker> the jamed station obviously then is worse
12:34:39  <Macha> What's with the road crossing the rails at some stations?
12:34:46  <VVG> penalties
12:35:18  <planetmaker> a penalty worth 300 points :-P
12:35:25  <planetmaker> worth 1/5 of a reverse path signal
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12:42:11  <PublicServer> <Macha> Aluminium pickup jammed
12:43:06  <PublicServer> <Macha> Cuts of two of it's own drops too
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12:45:24  <VVG> even with one tile short penalty is quite big
12:45:35  <VVG> in case of loading
12:49:12  <VVG> A station tile with built in exit signal will help :p
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12:51:19  <Macha> Anyway, I have to go. I undid the jam at the aluminum drop, but it needs fixing so it doesn't jam again
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12:52:42  <Tray> !password
12:52:42  <PublicServer> Tray: ladles
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13:09:46  <VVG> !password
13:09:46  <PublicServer> VVG: melons
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13:11:08  <PublicServer> <VVG> omg, 100t production at farm! that's highest i ever seen
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13:20:16  <V453000> VVG: that idea with "letting train into the platform when the previous one" is possible to do ... or not like 2 at a time, but to make it faster ... the problem is that it still counts as occupied platform, therefore the penalty is too high for trains to choose it
13:20:20  <V453000> from what I tried :)
13:21:00  <VVG> but, if there is no other choice, it will get go there, right?
13:21:02  <V453000> making it waypoitned would work
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13:21:07  <V453000> well
13:21:23  <V453000> but how does it know atm that there is no other choice :p
13:21:37  <VVG> others are ocuppied :)
13:21:43  <Ramsus08191> !password
13:21:43  <PublicServer> Ramsus08191: abduct
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13:22:12  <PublicServer> <Ramsus08191> Hello
13:22:15  <PublicServer> <fmauNeko> Hai
13:22:23  <PublicServer> <Mazur> Hi, Ramsus08191.
13:22:24  <PublicServer> <VVG> hi
13:23:21  <PublicServer> <VVG> bleh
13:23:36  <PublicServer> <VVG> whose work is brirpalv annexe?
13:23:46  <V453000> well yea, depends on design
13:23:51  <V453000> I tried a wrong one :)
13:24:14  <V453000> but still, it isnt worth the effort :)
13:24:23  <V453000> .better to make 1 more platform
13:24:30  <V453000> on half space in result :p
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13:24:50  <VVG> hm
13:24:57  <PublicServer> <Ramsus08191> I love when ppl "fix" things :D
13:25:08  <sharpy> !password
13:25:08  <PublicServer> sharpy: abduct
13:25:20  <VVG> mb not gate, taking signal state from platform exit?
13:25:22  <PublicServer> *** sharpy joined the game
13:25:44  <V453000> VVG: yes
13:25:50  <V453000> but well ...
13:26:01  <V453000> the effectiveness isnt all that awesome
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13:26:11  <V453000> and also
13:26:30  <V453000> the leaving train has to be well accelerating or you have to delay the release
13:26:37  <V453000> because a fullspeed train is coming in
13:26:51  <V453000> and it could stop if it arrives too soon :
13:26:53  <V453000> )
13:27:54  <V453000> all in all, it is more effective to make a normal station :)
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13:34:55  <PublicServer> <VVG> hmm
13:35:12  <PublicServer> <VVG> V, are you sure overflow at bakery will work without PF trap?
13:35:26  <PublicServer> <VVG> mine at glassworks didn't work without it
13:35:47  <PublicServer> <VVG> it started to work only when Vitus came and built Pf trap
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13:37:14  <V453000> it should
13:37:34  <V453000> PF trap isnt needed for 2way eol overflow
13:38:06  <PublicServer> <VVG> well, the glassworks one didn't work without it, trains just stopped infront of 2way red entry, without trying for overflow
13:38:28  <V453000> that is weird
13:38:43  <Ramsus08191> unless it wasnt the first two red
13:39:08  <PublicServer> <VVG> well, they happily went into overflow once Vitus built pf trap
13:40:01  <V453000> !password
13:40:01  <PublicServer> V453000: presto
13:40:10  <PublicServer> <VVG> we need more ES :(
13:40:15  <PublicServer> *** V453000 joined the game
13:40:37  <PublicServer> <VVG> and some people don't read signs and make more ES go in vane :(
13:40:49  <PublicServer> <Ramsus08191> what you mean?
13:40:57  <PublicServer> <Mazur> s/vane/vain/
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13:41:14  <PublicServer> <Ramsus08191> yea, but how?
13:42:02  <PublicServer> <Mazur> V453000: Once you have a minute, can you come laugh at my Paper Mill SUPPLIES PICKUP overflow and fix it?
13:42:27  <PublicServer> <VVG> primaries only need 1t per month, everything else is lost
13:42:34  <V453000> !setdef
13:42:34  <PublicServer> *** V453000 has disabled wait_for_pbs_path, wait_twoway_signal, wait_oneway_signal, ai_in_multiplayer; enabled no_servicing_if_no_breakdowns, extra_dynamite, mod_road_rebuild, forbid_90_deg, rail_firstred_twoway_eol and set path_backoff_interval to 1, train_acceleration_model to 1
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13:43:41  <PublicServer> <V453000> hmm wtf I was using this already
13:43:47  <PublicServer> <V453000>  @glass works
13:44:05  <VVG> o_0?
13:44:19  <PublicServer> <V453000> it just does wait
13:44:23  <PublicServer> <V453000> ignoring the 2way eol
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13:45:16  <PublicServer> <VVG> where=
13:45:23  *** Intexon has quit IRC
13:45:23  <PublicServer> <Ramsus08191> wasnt it because pf doesnt see past reversers?
13:45:39  <PublicServer> <V453000> 2way eol = no matter what is in the other path
13:45:54  <PublicServer> <VVG> well, as you see, it doesn't work without a trap
13:46:20  <PublicServer> <fmauNeko> without 2way eol, it doesn't works even with a trap
13:46:30  <PublicServer> <V453000> holy f
13:46:33  <PublicServer> <V453000> what is this
13:46:36  <PublicServer> <Ramsus08191> told you :D
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13:46:47  <PublicServer> <fmauNeko> wtf ?
13:47:07  <V453000> !rcon set reserve_paths
13:47:07  <PublicServer> V453000: Current value for 'reserve_paths' is: 'off' (min: 0, max: 1)
13:47:33  <PublicServer> *** Intexon joined the game
13:47:38  <PublicServer> <Intexon> hello coopers ;)
13:47:42  <PublicServer> <V453000> hi
13:47:43  <PublicServer> <VVG> hi
13:47:44  <PublicServer> <Ramsus08191> unconnected mine :D
13:47:45  <PublicServer> <Mazur> Ho, Intexon.
13:47:45  <PublicServer> <fmauNeko> Hai Intexon
13:47:46  <PublicServer> <Ramsus08191> hi
13:48:29  <PublicServer> <V453000> what is wrong :(
13:49:43  <PublicServer> <V453000> ok it is config
13:49:48  <PublicServer> <V453000> with my config it works
13:50:00  <PublicServer> <VVG> your local config?
13:50:19  <PublicServer> <VVG> mazur?
13:50:20  <PublicServer> <V453000> oh no it doesnt
13:50:21  <PublicServer> <V453000> hmm
13:50:31  <PublicServer> <Mazur> Yes, VVG?
13:50:38  <PublicServer> <Intexon> what is wrong?
13:50:53  <PublicServer> <V453000> trains ignore 2way eol
13:50:59  <PublicServer> <VVG> overflow that feels wrong to you is actually ok, just injected train can block incoming
13:51:05  <PublicServer> <V453000> or ... not ignore but dont behave properly
13:51:06  <PublicServer> <VVG> it lacks prios
13:51:17  <PublicServer> <VVG> but, if you don't mind them blocking, it is ok
13:51:49  <PublicServer> <Mazur> Yeah, haven't mastered the prio bit there, yet.
13:52:32  <PublicServer> <Intexon> btw really great article, V
13:52:37  <PublicServer> <V453000> thanks :)
13:52:56  <PublicServer> <Intexon> something I dreamt of when joining openttdcoop
13:52:57  <PublicServer> <V453000> I hope it will be actually useful to anyone :D
13:53:06  <PublicServer> <VVG> seems like behavior is ok, to me
13:53:30  <PublicServer> <VVG> why chose known dead end, when there is known path, but just a dead a the moment
13:54:15  <PublicServer> <VVG> boom!
13:54:26  <PublicServer> *** Intexon has left the game (connection lost)
13:54:28  <PublicServer> <VVG> hoo
13:55:06  <PublicServer> <VVG> :)
13:55:23  <PublicServer> <V453000> wtf
13:55:36  <PublicServer> <V453000> I dont get how this works
13:55:51  <PublicServer> *** Gnemo joined the game
13:55:59  <Intexon> nvm, too slow connection
13:56:06  <PublicServer> <VVG> hm hm
13:56:15  <PublicServer> <VVG> mb becuase there are 2 dead ends, it try to go there
13:56:27  <PublicServer> <VVG> but when it is only one, a close dead end is preferable?
13:56:27  <Intexon> I hope to show up early, see you :)
13:56:34  <PublicServer> <VVG> a closeR*
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13:58:03  <PublicServer> <V453000> hm
13:58:06  <PublicServer> <V453000> the fuck :D
13:58:54  <PublicServer> <V453000> when I give them 2 choices where to turn
13:58:58  <PublicServer> <V453000> they choose that path
13:59:02  <PublicServer> <VVG> yep
13:59:47  <PublicServer> <V453000> hmf
13:59:48  <PublicServer> <V453000> works
13:59:53  <PublicServer> <VVG> easy now :)
13:59:59  <PublicServer> <VVG> it needs choices
14:00:09  <PublicServer> <V453000> but I can not say  I understand why
14:00:25  <PublicServer> <VVG> seems obvious to me
14:00:28  <PublicServer> <Ramsus08191> is it working now?
14:00:37  <PublicServer> <V453000> obvious?
14:00:46  <PublicServer> <V453000> what is the logical difference between one and two choices
14:00:49  <PublicServer> <Ramsus08191> it has a pbs in it.....
14:01:07  <PublicServer> <Ramsus08191> better :)
14:01:11  <PublicServer> <V453000> well put in presignals
14:01:11  <PublicServer> <V453000> whatever
14:01:11  <PublicServer> <V453000> still the same
14:01:33  <VVG> yeah, when it comes to 1st twowayred, it try to look up if there is some more place where it can make a choice
14:01:44  <VVG> if there is none, it goes into closest dead-end
14:01:54  <VVG> if there is more places to make a choice, it goes there
14:02:13  <PublicServer> <V453000> well
14:02:18  <PublicServer> <V453000> hmm
14:02:35  <PublicServer> <Ramsus08191> lol
14:02:41  <PublicServer> <Ramsus08191> oh Isee
14:02:50  <PublicServer> <Ramsus08191> yea
14:02:58  <VVG> at every fork it looks if there is a next fork
14:03:03  <VVG> if there is, it goes there
14:03:12  <PublicServer> <V453000> indeed
14:03:17  <VVG> if none, it no use to go there, so closest dead end is preferable
14:03:34  <PublicServer> <Ramsus08191> thats weird
14:03:40  <PublicServer> <V453000> tbh I thought it works a bit more strictly "go at any time"
14:03:45  <PublicServer> <V453000> good to know :)
14:04:06  <VVG> handy knowledge
14:04:46  <VVG> There are CPU restrictions, so it can only look up if there is any moe forks avaible, i think.
14:05:46  <PublicServer> <Ramsus08191> 2 tiles diagonal is equal to 1 horizontal?
14:05:52  <VVG> not quite
14:06:01  <PublicServer> <Ramsus08191> 1,5 to 1?
14:06:14  <VVG> traveling speed is different, so that's why bridge syncing is needed
14:06:21  <VVG> not sure about exact factor
14:06:30  <PublicServer> <Ramsus08191> I mean, for waiting space
14:06:40  <PublicServer> <V453000> for waiting spaces yes
14:06:56  <VVG>
14:07:04  <VVG> there is an explanation
14:07:12  <VVG> oh, yes
14:07:35  <VVG> 2 diagonals in lenght are the same as 1 straight
14:07:56  <PublicServer> <Ramsus08191> alright
14:09:52  <PublicServer> <V453000> :(
14:09:57  <PublicServer> <V453000> who added the 2nd choice :(
14:10:00  <PublicServer> <V453000> that isnt so cool
14:10:05  <PublicServer> <VVG> where=
14:10:06  <PublicServer> <VVG> ?
14:10:13  <PublicServer> <V453000> gw
14:10:18  <PublicServer> <VVG> me!
14:10:33  <PublicServer> <VVG> some candyfying needed now, though
14:12:09  <PublicServer> <V453000> Mazur: whtt doesnt work
14:12:50  <PublicServer> <V453000> meh gotta go
14:12:52  <PublicServer> <V453000> seeya later
14:12:54  <PublicServer> *** V453000 has left the game (leaving)
14:12:59  <PublicServer> <Mazur> Paper mill ovflw
14:13:12  <V453000> what, not where :)
14:13:26  <PublicServer> <Mazur> Or rather, I wasn't sure if it is right, or not.
14:13:33  <V453000> as long as it works ...
14:13:47  <PublicServer> <Mazur> Well, I haven't tested it, yet.
14:13:58  <V453000> .
14:14:02  <PublicServer> <Mazur> Should work, hough, says VVG.
14:14:50  <V453000> well thats why I ask what is wrong :)
14:15:04  <PublicServer> <BigB> im back
14:15:13  <PublicServer> <Mazur> Apparently my feeling of doubt about it.
14:15:22  <PublicServer> <VVG> it's working, just tested it
14:15:36  <PublicServer> <BigB> the desyncs seem to be solved
14:15:43  <PublicServer> <Mazur> I'm seeing that.  Thanks, VVG.
14:16:10  <PublicServer> <VVG> you can canify it now, like GW supplies pickup, now that we figured when pf trap is not needed :)
14:17:07  <PublicServer> <Mazur> "canify"?
14:17:24  <V453000> VVG: well but still both options are possible :)
14:17:35  <V453000> dont make others use the same way :p
14:18:28  <PublicServer> <VVG> candify* :)
14:18:38  <PublicServer> <Mazur> Ah.
14:18:47  <PublicServer> <VVG> well, pf trap look stupid from cool looking network point of view :)
14:24:43  <Ammler> !password
14:24:43  <PublicServer> Ammler: birded
14:24:54  <PublicServer> *** Amm1er joined the game
14:25:06  <PublicServer> <Ramsus08191> hi
14:25:24  <PublicServer> <Mazur> Ammel.
14:25:28  <PublicServer> *** Amm1er has left the game (connection lost)
14:25:36  <Ammler> :-o
14:25:39  <Ammler> !info
14:25:39  <PublicServer> Ammler: #:1(Orange) Company Name: 'Coopers #188'  Year Founded: 1950  Money: 2242541390  Loan: 0  Value: 2254441457  (T:461, R:95, P:10, S:0) unprotected
14:25:42  <VVG> hihi
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14:29:59  <PublicServer> <Mazur> Why are the Nya Trollbyn Woods AES trucks stopped?
14:30:06  <PublicServer> <Mazur> -A
14:30:09  <PublicServer> <VVG> huh?
14:30:33  <PublicServer> <VVG> hm
14:31:02  <PublicServer> <VVG> mb i forgot to let them run around :(
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14:31:32  *** ChanServ sets mode: +v Fuco
14:31:35  <PublicServer> <Mazur> Ok, restarted them.
14:32:34  <PublicServer> *** BigB has left the game (leaving)
14:32:37  <fmauNeko> I love the Login Train newgrf
14:32:44  <fmauNeko> Tagged sex on BaNaNaS
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14:40:26  <PublicServer> <Mazur> Uppsåker WOOL is funnny.
14:40:34  <PublicServer> <Ramsus08191> hmm so one truck per month for one industry is enough?
14:40:47  <PublicServer> <VVG> yeah
14:40:58  <PublicServer> <VVG> it is enough even one truck per 1.5 months
14:41:01  <PublicServer> <Mazur> Supplies?  Yes.
14:41:25  <PublicServer> <VVG> if you don't mind some occasioanl production drop, that' is
14:44:27  <PublicServer> *** VVG has joined company #1
14:46:44  <PublicServer> <Ramsus08191> the junctions are getting lively :D
14:46:55  <PublicServer> <VVG> nah
14:47:00  <PublicServer> <VVG> map is empty :)
14:47:12  <PublicServer> <Ramsus08191> I know but its starting
14:47:15  <PublicServer> <VVG> one more thousand trains needed :)
14:48:18  <PublicServer> <Ramsus08191> tehre is a station at bbh 07
14:49:48  <PublicServer> <VVG> no idea what it is there for
14:49:58  <PublicServer> <VVG> mb some penalties
14:50:03  <PublicServer> <Ramsus08191> hmm probably penalty
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15:07:17  <PublicServer> *** VVG has left the game (connection lost)
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15:07:38  <Bigb> !password
15:07:38  <PublicServer> Bigb: elopes
15:08:24  <PublicServer> *** BigB joined the game
15:10:02  <PublicServer> <Mazur> Uppsåker WOOL needs rebuilding.
15:16:34  <PublicServer> *** BigB has left the game (leaving)
15:28:34  <PublicServer> <Ramsus08191> ok, I gotta go, bye all
15:28:57  <PublicServer> *** Ramsus08191 has left the game (leaving)
15:28:59  <PublicServer> <Mazur> Bye, Ramsus08191
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15:37:38  *** Webster sets mode: +o Phazorx
15:38:10  <VVG> !players
15:38:11  <PublicServer> VVG: Client 249 (Orange) is fmauNeko, in company 1 (Coopers #188)
15:38:11  <PublicServer> VVG: Client 262 (Orange) is Mazur, in company 1 (Coopers #188)
15:43:52  <Bigb> !password
15:43:52  <PublicServer> Bigb: turkey
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16:17:14  <VVG> !password
16:17:14  <PublicServer> VVG: sailor
16:17:38  <PublicServer> *** VVG joined the game
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16:25:43  <Lukeus_Maximus> !password
16:25:43  <PublicServer> Lukeus_Maximus: sailor
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16:43:19  * Macha is setting up irssi again
16:43:45  <PublicServer> <Mazur> fmauNeko:Why 2 stations at Surhamn Mines?
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16:44:34  <PublicServer> <Mazur> Oh, silly me, that's the lorry station.
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16:53:16  <PublicServer> <fmauNeko> Sry Mazur, I was AFK :p
16:57:54  <VVG> too many vehicles in game :(
16:58:02  <PublicServer> <Mazur> Nah.
16:58:14  <V453000> !info
16:58:14  <PublicServer> V453000: #:1(Orange) Company Name: 'Coopers #188'  Year Founded: 1950  Money: 2409995500  Loan: 0  Value: 2430986405  (T:500, R:90, P:10, S:0) unprotected
16:58:20  <V453000> !rcon set max_trains 700
16:58:32  <VVG> tyvm
16:58:37  <V453000> ywvm
17:00:01  <Macha> !password
17:00:01  <PublicServer> Macha: ebbing
17:00:39  <PublicServer> *** Macha joined the game
17:02:08  <PublicServer> <VVG> i see that central oveflow is not overflowed anymore :)
17:02:26  <PublicServer> <fmauNeko> Thats great
17:02:48  <PublicServer> <fmauNeko> There's even empty platforms
17:03:47  * Macha forgot where the SL he was working on is. Then spent 5 minutes before remembering the sign list...
17:06:58  <PublicServer> <Macha> What's left to build?
17:07:08  <PublicServer> <VVG> primaries
17:07:44  <PublicServer> <Mazur> Uppsåker WOOL and LS need rebuilding, if someone has not done that by now.
17:07:49  *** Ramsus08191 has joined #openttdcoop
17:08:24  <Ramsus08191> !password
17:08:24  <PublicServer> Ramsus08191: ebbing
17:08:28  <PublicServer> <Mazur> The way it was/is a train waiting for  a platform to free up will block the others exit.
17:08:43  <PublicServer> *** Ramsus08191 joined the game
17:08:45  <PublicServer> <Ramsus08191> Yo
17:09:00  <PublicServer> <Mazur> Wb, Ramsus08191.
17:09:37  <PublicServer> <Ramsus08191> does these industries increase production...?
17:10:00  <PublicServer> <VVG> check industry list
17:10:11  <PublicServer> <VVG> or are you asking about specifig ones?
17:10:17  <PublicServer> <Mazur> Yes, but not to same levels as default industries.
17:10:32  <PublicServer> <VVG> max prod of primary in FIRS is 1k
17:10:34  <PublicServer> <Ramsus08191> I mean, its quite slow......
17:11:04  <PublicServer> <VVG> every month, if it has supplies, it gets a chance to increase prod or stay the same
17:11:39  <PublicServer> <Ramsus08191> but the max production on origianal is lower then the FIRS?
17:11:49  <PublicServer> <VVG> no
17:12:02  <PublicServer> <VVG> up to 2k in defualt industires
17:12:10  <PublicServer> <VVG> but is harder to grow defaults )
17:12:15  <PublicServer> <Ramsus08191> hmm I see
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17:23:45  <PublicServer> <Mazur> Problems with your exit, fmauNeko?
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17:26:13  <Macha> Stupid mouse :(
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17:36:45  <VVG> cold shower is the best
17:37:59  <PublicServer> <fmauNeko> FRAK
17:38:14  <PublicServer> <Mazur> I remade them.
17:38:19  <PublicServer> <fmauNeko> I need one more tile
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17:42:05  <PublicServer> <fmauNeko> Finally, there we are
17:43:08  <PublicServer> <Mazur> Yes, three trains each should ne enough inj this game.
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17:48:03  <PublicServer> <fmauNeko> Going to eat
17:48:07  <PublicServer> <fmauNeko> Brb
17:48:10  <PublicServer> <Mazur> enjoy
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17:50:57  <Gumili> !help
17:50:57  <PublicServer> Gumili:
17:52:12  <Gumili> !date
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17:58:19  <Gumili> @quickstart
17:58:21  <Webster> Quickstart - #openttdcoop Wiki -
18:01:09  <Macha> btw, what is a PF trap?
18:01:28  <PublicServer> <VVG> path finder trap
18:02:04  <PublicServer> <Mazur> A way to make the PF think there's no eol at that spot.
18:04:12  <PublicServer> <Macha> Who builds stuff like Fort Co-op and Castle Co-op? Seems to be one random thing per game.
18:04:41  <PublicServer> <Mazur> Don't know.
18:04:47  <PublicServer> <VVG> i made the gardens around castre and patrolling train at fort
18:05:08  <PublicServer> <Macha> I made the walls at the fort (I'd made them around the castle, and someone removed them before)
18:05:35  <PublicServer> <VVG> when was that?
18:05:49  <PublicServer> <Macha> REmoved about a day ago, made about three ago.
18:05:58  <PublicServer> <VVG> eh?
18:06:16  <PublicServer> <Macha> The walls at the castle.
18:06:22  <PublicServer> <VVG> garders were around castle since sunday atleast, i don't remember there any walls
18:06:50  <PublicServer> <Macha> Maglev tracks on the exposed coast on the inner bit?
18:07:03  <PublicServer> <Macha> Must have been removed quicker then
18:07:05  <PublicServer> <VVG> at castle?
18:07:17  <PublicServer> <Macha> Yeah, like the one I just added there
18:07:26  <PublicServer> <VVG> oh
18:07:32  <PublicServer> <VVG> i haven't seen any of them
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18:14:25  <PublicServer> <Macha> Do we bother connecting primaries with miniscule production?
18:14:36  <Gumili> !password
18:14:36  <PublicServer> Gumili: smudge
18:14:36  <PublicServer> <Macha> 8 items of livestock/8 tons of fruit and veg
18:14:50  <PublicServer> <Ramsus08191> I believe yes, becouse we will be feeding them with suplies
18:14:57  <PublicServer> *** Gumili joined the game
18:14:57  <PublicServer> <Mazur> Yes, just make sure it gets its sipplies, too.
18:15:02  <PublicServer> <Ramsus08191> and then they will grow
18:15:21  <PublicServer> *** Gumili has joined spectators
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18:21:50  <PublicServer> *** Macha has left the game (connection lost)
18:25:02  <PublicServer> <fmauNeko> Back
18:25:09  <PublicServer> <fmauNeko> What have I missed ?
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18:26:26  <VVG> Macha?
18:28:18  <Macha> !password
18:28:18  <PublicServer> Macha: fondle
18:28:22  <Macha> VVG: Yes?
18:28:28  <Macha> VVG: My internet died.
18:28:41  <Macha> VVG: My IRC is running on my VPS, so it stayed in
18:29:02  <tycoondemon> !password
18:29:02  <PublicServer> tycoondemon: fondle
18:29:02  <VVG> You used wrong train at brirplav sidings. You were supposed to use south train there, but used north one.
18:29:10  <PublicServer> *** Macha joined the game
18:29:18  <Macha> VVG: Oh, my bad. Sorry.
18:29:19  <PublicServer> *** tycoondemon joined the game
18:29:30  <VVG> I was lucky to notice it travelling through central station, i fixed it.
18:29:38  <PublicServer> <Macha> Thanks
18:30:17  <PublicServer> <tycoondemon> the trains are rolling
18:31:45  <PublicServer> <VVG> hahaha
18:31:51  <PublicServer> <VVG> someone built a bunker :)
18:32:04  <PublicServer> <Spike> ?
18:32:16  <PublicServer> <VVG> north from hq
18:33:04  <PublicServer> <Spike> oh
18:33:13  <PublicServer> <Macha> *whistles* I wonder who that was...
18:35:12  <PublicServer> *** Gumili has joined company #1
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18:39:59  <PublicServer> <Gumili> Why train #504 is stopped?
18:40:40  <PublicServer> <VVG> someone's mistake mb
18:41:00  <PublicServer> <VVG> hm
18:41:16  <PublicServer> <VVG> who aded that much more vehicle to ES loop?
18:42:34  <PublicServer> <VVG> macha
18:42:49  <PublicServer> <VVG> by any chance, do you remember how many trains you added to brirpalv sidings?
18:47:11  <PublicServer> <fmauNeko> What is train 526 ?
18:47:23  <PublicServer> <fmauNeko> In the ES overflow, without orders
18:47:42  <PublicServer> <VVG> i think that my mistake
18:47:48  <PublicServer> <fmauNeko> Grain from Prirpalv Sidings ?
18:48:14  <PublicServer> <VVG> yes, i think
18:48:17  <PublicServer> <fmauNeko> Huh, okay :p
18:48:31  <Macha> VVG: 4
18:48:36  <PublicServer> <VVG> hee
18:48:54  <PublicServer> <VVG> there might be one more train running around without orders :)
18:49:25  <PublicServer> <Mazur> Yes, it had shared empty orders.
18:49:30  <PublicServer> <Macha> Question: Why did the signals at !signals? not work?
18:50:16  <PublicServer> <Macha> I'm usually lazy and just PBS my own games, so I'm not great at the old signals
18:51:24  <PublicServer> <fmauNeko> 1sec, i'm coming
18:51:25  <PublicServer> <VVG> it's not signals
18:51:32  <PublicServer> <VVG> it's a train going for different destination
18:51:44  <PublicServer> <Mazur> It only needs to reverse, not to hte station, that's why.
18:51:48  <PublicServer> <Macha> Oh, ok
18:52:23  <PublicServer> <VVG> when you modify orders, next for a train changes
18:52:38  <PublicServer> <VVG> adding back a new one doesn't change a next destination
18:54:02  <PublicServer> <VVG> you got too many RVs there, i'm sending 4 of them back to depot to sell
18:54:36  <PublicServer> <VVG> one is more than enough there :)
18:54:59  <Macha> kk
18:55:12  <Macha> Just added more as I figured they were travelling further
18:55:32  <PublicServer> <VVG> 30 tiles of one way ride don't need more than 1
18:55:50  <PublicServer> <VVG> even 40 tiles one way ride should be ok most of the time
18:56:02  <PublicServer> <VVG> about that distance
18:56:37  <PublicServer> <VVG> that is, if using 125 kmh truck
18:58:02  <Gumili> !info
18:58:02  <PublicServer> Gumili: #:1(Orange) Company Name: 'Coopers #188'  Year Founded: 1950  Money: 2541786075  Loan: 10000  Value: 2561421121  (T:548, R:94, P:10, S:0) unprotected
18:58:50  <PublicServer> <Gumili> Btw, what goal there is for this game? :P
18:59:09  <PublicServer> <VVG> get as many trains running, as possible
18:59:12  <PublicServer> <Mazur> Figuring out FIRS,and making it work.
18:59:20  <PublicServer> <VVG> it's figured out
18:59:28  <PublicServer> <VVG> :)
18:59:29  <PublicServer> <Gumili> Whats FIRS?
18:59:39  <PublicServer> <VVG> an industry replacement set
19:00:06  <PublicServer> <Macha> Handy shortcut I found - holding ctrl while building bridge, = use last bridge type
19:00:25  <hylje> ctrl is the magic wand
19:00:26  <PublicServer> <Ramsus08191> cool
19:00:32  <PublicServer> <VVG> there are many more such handy shortcuts
19:00:40  <PublicServer> <VVG> check openttd wiki for "hidden_features"
19:00:43  <hylje> most of them have do with ctrl
19:01:13  <Yso> !password
19:01:13  <PublicServer> Yso: tosses
19:01:24  <PublicServer> *** Yso joined the game
19:01:57  <PublicServer> <fmauNeko> Macha:
19:02:14  <PublicServer> <fmauNeko> You should have built your station on the other side
19:02:22  <PublicServer> <fmauNeko> SL04 is closer than SL09
19:02:36  <Macha> fmauNeko: kk
19:06:36  <PublicServer> <Ramsus08191> whoa, lots of reverser on slh 01 :)
19:06:51  *** Chris_Booth has joined #openttdcoop
19:10:10  <PublicServer> <VVG> hm
19:10:37  <PublicServer> <VVG> glemspang exchange and quarry could actually use one reverser together
19:10:43  <PublicServer> <VVG> wanna rebuild them?
19:11:06  <PublicServer> <Ramsus08191> hmm
19:11:29  <PublicServer> <Ramsus08191> how would I do that?, use Glemspang reverser for wuarry as well?
19:11:54  <PublicServer> <Ramsus08191> Exchange Reverser for Quarry*
19:12:12  <PublicServer> <VVG> a new one between old ones, and exit to both stations
19:12:33  <PublicServer> <Ramsus08191> alright
19:12:34  <PublicServer> <Ramsus08191> I do it
19:12:40  <PublicServer> <VVG> that is if you feel like doing it
19:12:43  <PublicServer> <VVG> )
19:13:02  <PublicServer> <Gumili> Soo.. what are this reversers for?
19:13:07  <PublicServer> <Ramsus08191> I just I dont any train :D
19:13:24  <PublicServer> <VVG> they are there so that trains can do 180 turn
19:13:27  <PublicServer> <Ramsus08191> Crash*
19:13:42  <PublicServer> <VVG> then just let them be :)
19:13:50  <PublicServer> <Ramsus08191> nah
19:13:58  <PublicServer> <Ramsus08191> now I want to do it lol
19:14:05  <PublicServer> <VVG> it's just that when i was building quarry i thought of doing farm as well, using just one reverser
19:14:20  <PublicServer> <VVG> but decided to wait, since farm had very low production
19:14:39  <PublicServer> <VVG> nah
19:14:45  <PublicServer> <VVG> just one long tunnel will be better
19:14:54  <PublicServer> <Ramsus08191> yea yea, now I see that
19:15:24  <PublicServer> <Gumili> I still dont understand whyYou use reversers instead of normal U-turns (or whatever they are called)
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19:15:28  <PublicServer> <VVG> hmm
19:15:41  <PublicServer> <Macha> U-turns are huge if you pay attention to CL
19:15:41  <PublicServer> <VVG> you should also use different stations for different cargo pickups
19:16:05  <PublicServer> <Ramsus08191> yea I know, but now I am lazy to do the fruit station :P
19:16:26  <PublicServer> <Gumili> Umm.. whats CL? :o (sorry for being noob :( )
19:16:29  <PublicServer> <VVG> we use realistic accel, and trains slow down quite a lot at normal loops. with such reverser it might be actually faster
19:16:32  <PublicServer> <VVG> curve lenght
19:16:40  <PublicServer> <Gumili> Oh..
19:17:22  <PublicServer> <Gumili> So it is kind of cheat? :P
19:17:27  <PublicServer> <VVG> but on straight track trains stop and start very very fast
19:17:33  <PublicServer> <VVG> why?
19:17:45  <PublicServer> <fmauNeko> It 's not a cheat, it's a feature
19:17:52  <PublicServer> <VVG> it is still slower than normal loop, since trains stop
19:18:17  *** mixrin has quit IRC
19:18:35  <PublicServer> <VVG> i think you need some overflow protection there, if you are going to use more trains at that station
19:18:45  <PublicServer> <VVG> a depot before 2way combo should work
19:19:02  <PublicServer> <Yso> Macha, one of your trains ended up in the overflow depot @ central
19:19:11  <PublicServer> <VVG> which one?
19:19:23  <PublicServer> <Gumili> It's still magic for me :O
19:19:35  <PublicServer> <Yso> 548
19:19:43  <Macha> Yso: I lost one earlier, I think.
19:20:20  <PublicServer> <Yso> it has been cloned of the south trains for a station thats in the northern part
19:20:36  <PublicServer> <VVG> using north instead of south or vice versa again? :)
19:20:47  <PublicServer> <Macha> Oh, damn :(
19:20:50  <PublicServer> <Ramsus08191> vvg, depot like this?
19:21:06  <PublicServer> <VVG> yeah
19:21:11  <PublicServer> <fmauNeko> Macha, your new trains are wrong too
19:21:13  <PublicServer> <VVG> smallest overflow ever :)
19:21:14  <PublicServer> <Macha> Ah, I figured it out. I mixed up N/S and W/E. I was using top of screen = North
19:21:19  <PublicServer> <Yso> better check all your trains @ sl10
19:21:24  <PublicServer> <fmauNeko> Fixing them
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19:21:37  <PublicServer> <Ramsus08191> I think the reverser is ready, is it good? (just gotta add signals
19:21:47  <PublicServer> <VVG> but but but
19:21:51  <PublicServer> <VVG> it's in a wrong place
19:21:58  <PublicServer> <Ramsus08191> why?
19:22:05  <PublicServer> <VVG> trains will stop at red entry before the depot
19:22:25  <Lukeus_Maximus> !password
19:22:25  <PublicServer> Lukeus_Maximus: sprier
19:22:39  <Lukeus_Maximus> silly PublicServer, that's not a word!
19:22:56  <PublicServer> *** Lukeus Maximus joined the game
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19:23:17  <PublicServer> <fmauNeko> I fixed your trains by adding the waypoints Macha :)
19:23:23  <PublicServer> <VVG> Gumili, are you new to ottd?
19:23:30  <PublicServer> <Ramsus08191> like this is ok now?
19:23:32  <Lukeus_Maximus> woah, oil is going to the power plant! Stop this madness immediately
19:23:36  <PublicServer> <VVG> almost
19:23:37  <PublicServer> <Macha> Oh, kk
19:23:46  <PublicServer> <Macha> Is Lilla Knemlov fixed too?
19:23:48  <PublicServer> <Gumili> Hmm.. Yes i think so.
19:23:49  <PublicServer> <VVG> depots have built in entry signal, so that 2way should be combo
19:24:02  <PublicServer> <Gumili> I mean.. what I see here is too advanced for me
19:24:04  <PublicServer> <VVG> otherwise trains will leave the depot and get stuck infront of signal
19:24:24  <PublicServer> <Ramsus08191> hmm, thanks for the info, I am terrible at depots :D
19:24:37  <PublicServer> <VVG> it was all advaced magic for me too :)
19:24:45  <PublicServer> <Ramsus08191> so its ok now?
19:24:54  <PublicServer> <VVG> yeah, should work
19:24:54  <PublicServer> <Gumili> That's why i am just spying for now ;)
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19:25:21  <PublicServer> <fmauNeko> Fixed Macha :)
19:25:27  <PublicServer> <Macha> kk, thank you
19:25:33  <PublicServer> <Macha> Note to self: Check more in future
19:25:41  <PublicServer> <Ramsus08191> ta da, its ready
19:25:53  <PublicServer> <Macha> Note to self 2: Left of screen = North.
19:25:54  <PublicServer> <VVG> any more mixed trains, Macha, that you can remember? :)
19:26:02  <avdg> so buzy :p
19:26:07  <PublicServer> <VVG> left top corner is north :)
19:26:36  <PublicServer> <Macha> Let's see, three primaries built, three fixed. Yup, think all fine
19:27:12  <PublicServer> *** avdg joined the game
19:27:15  <PublicServer> <Macha> I hope, anyway
19:27:19  <PublicServer> <avdg> hey
19:27:20  *** Macha has quit IRC
19:27:24  <PublicServer> <VVG> heya
19:27:31  <PublicServer> <Ramsus08191> hmm there is no farm suply at slh01, is there a problem or its shortage?
19:27:33  <PublicServer> <Ramsus08191> hello
19:27:47  <PublicServer> <VVG> there is
19:27:59  <PublicServer> <VVG> you mean the stations or cargo?
19:28:19  <PublicServer> <Ramsus08191> SL01 FS Transfer station has no farm suply
19:28:32  <PublicServer> <VVG> shortoge at machine shop :)
19:28:48  <PublicServer> <VVG> station is in the orders, so sometime later it will be coming
19:29:26  <PublicServer> <VVG> i only added it recently and it's last in the orders, so it will take some time
19:29:35  <PublicServer> <Ramsus08191> ah I see
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19:30:30  <PublicServer> <VVG> i made one train come there, wait a bit
19:33:42  <PublicServer> *** VVG has left the game (connection lost)
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19:40:43  <Lukeus_Maximus> please please please tell me next game is not FIRS
19:40:46  <Lukeus_Maximus> I hate it
19:43:50  *** Phazorx has quit IRC
19:44:52  <VVG> why?
19:45:02  <PublicServer> *** avdg has left the game (connection lost)
19:45:02  *** avdg has quit IRC
19:45:33  <PublicServer> <Macha> Am I still in IRC?
19:45:42  <PublicServer> <Macha> I'm seeing none of these messages in my client
19:45:45  <PublicServer> <Gumili> Nope
19:46:19  *** avdg has joined #openttdcoop
19:46:47  <PublicServer> <fmauNeko> Got to g
19:46:50  <PublicServer> <fmauNeko> Cya
19:46:51  <Lukeus_Maximus> because in order to have a large set of high production primaries, you need a large distribution network for supplies
19:46:51  *** Macha has joined #openttdcoop
19:46:53  <PublicServer> <Ramsus08191> bye
19:46:55  <PublicServer> *** fmauNeko has left the game (connection lost)
19:46:58  *** fmauNeko has quit IRC
19:47:03  <Lukeus_Maximus> which half the time doesn't work anyway
19:49:47  <Lukeus_Maximus> ttd goods transport graphs should not have cycles!
19:50:12  <Lukeus_Maximus> *digraphs
19:51:45  <Lukeus_Maximus> or at least we should try not handling every goods type, but rather a small subset with which we can cope
19:55:11  <Lukeus_Maximus> there are less than 1000 trains, this is a problem
19:55:33  <PublicServer> <Macha> The limit gets raised later, I think
19:56:08  <PublicServer> *** Yso has left the game (leaving)
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19:57:10  <PublicServer> *** avdg joined the game
19:59:13  <Lukeus_Maximus> who the hell is picking chemicals up at the PENALTY oil refinery???
19:59:51  <PublicServer> <avdg> ?
20:00:48  <PublicServer> <avdg> no trains
20:00:54  <PublicServer> <avdg> hmm
20:01:00  <PublicServer> <avdg> fixing it
20:01:11  <PublicServer> *** avdg has joined company #1
20:02:01  *** Macha1 has joined #openttdcoop
20:02:25  *** Macha1 has left #openttdcoop
20:02:49  <Macha> Anyway, I have to go now.
20:02:57  <PublicServer> <Ramsus08191> bye
20:03:28  <PublicServer> <avdg> cya
20:03:35  <PublicServer> *** Macha has left the game (leaving)
20:03:54  <PublicServer> *** Mazur has left the game (connection lost)
20:07:24  <PublicServer> <avdg> ok, there should be no leading oil/chemicals anymore
20:07:41  <PublicServer> <avdg> *leaking
20:08:47  <Lukeus_Maximus> no trains @ !here Enkoping Halt
20:09:57  <PublicServer> <avdg> can the load be dropped somewhere?
20:11:26  <VVG> Lukeus_Maximus: half the time - where you get that statistic from?
20:11:51  <Lukeus_Maximus> left side of the internet
20:11:58  <VVG> ah, sure
20:11:59  <Lukeus_Maximus> fun facts exist there
20:15:14  <Lukeus_Maximus> also
20:16:10  <PublicServer> <avdg> too much hacked @slh 10
20:16:49  <Lukeus_Maximus> with standard industry set, the goods transportation graph(s) are trees coming inward to the root whereas ES, FS and MS must go outward away from the root incurring complications of tree splits rather than easy merges
20:17:05  <Lukeus_Maximus> (knowledge of graph theory required)
20:18:35  <VVG> if you do supply dustribution right - you get primaries, like mines, with production range 500-1000 everywhere
20:19:11  <VVG> All it requires is 1t of supply per month to be delivered to primary
20:20:19  <VVG> Everything over 1t just disappears into thin air.
20:26:10  *** Bigb has quit IRC
20:30:25  <PublicServer> *** Gumili has left the game (leaving)
20:30:52  *** Gumili has quit IRC
20:33:05  <PublicServer> <Ramsus08191> hmm ok, I am leaving
20:33:08  <PublicServer> <Ramsus08191>  cya
20:33:50  <PublicServer> *** Ramsus08191 has left the game (leaving)
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21:01:10  <Ammler> shouldn't we update?
21:01:12  <Ammler> planetmaker: ^
21:01:21  <planetmaker> yes
21:01:25  *** mixrin_ has joined #openttdcoop
21:01:48  <Ammler> apply patches again?
21:02:15  <PublicServer> *** Lukeus Maximus has left the game (leaving)
21:02:37  <planetmaker> yes, patches can be applied again
21:02:41  <planetmaker> IMHO
21:02:47  <planetmaker> the desync *should* be fixed
21:04:30  <VVG> i didn't see any desyncs today
21:05:40  *** mixrin has quit IRC
21:07:52  <PublicServer> *** Spike has left the game (leaving)
21:08:10  <planetmaker> VVG: yes. luck
21:08:41  *** benom has quit IRC
21:09:55  *** Seberoth has joined #openttdcoop
21:12:11  <planetmaker> !rcon save update
21:12:12  <PublicServer> planetmaker: Saving map...
21:12:16  <planetmaker> !rcon save
21:12:16  <PublicServer> planetmaker: - Save the current game. Usage: 'save <filename>'
21:12:20  <planetmaker> rcon exit
21:12:30  <planetmaker> !save
21:12:30  <PublicServer> Saving game...
21:12:34  <planetmaker> !rcon exit
21:12:36  <PublicServer> Server has exited
21:12:37  *** PublicServer has quit IRC
21:12:59  *** PublicServer has joined #openttdcoop
21:12:59  <PublicServer> Autopilot engaged
21:12:59  <PublicServer> Loading default savegame
21:12:59  *** ChanServ sets mode: +v PublicServer
21:12:59  *** Webster changes topic to "Welcome to #openttdcoop, the Cooperative OpenTTD | PSG #188 (r20146) | STAGE: Building | | New players, use @quickstart and !help | Screenshots: | Coopetition ladder: | Welcome to the depths of insanity | create a wiki userpage"
21:13:09  <planetmaker> new server version :-)
21:13:23  <Ammler> desync free :-P
21:13:59  *** Benom has joined #openttdcoop
21:16:05  <PublicServer> *** Spike joined the game
21:16:14  <Ammler> !screen
21:16:19  <Ammler> !unpause
21:16:20  <PublicServer> *** Ammler has unpaused the server. (Use !auto to set it back.)
21:16:27  <Ammler> ^Spike^: do some action
21:16:40  <PublicServer> *** Spike has joined company #1
21:16:41  <Ammler> planetmaker: you might need to patch autopilot?
21:17:12  <Ammler> that should become a config option :-/
21:17:24  <^Spike^> have i done enough?
21:17:42  <Ammler> there is no screen
21:17:58  <planetmaker> oh. I didn't touch ap+
21:18:05  <Ammler> are you sure?
21:18:08  <planetmaker> and there I have no idea what needs patching
21:18:12  *** Lukeus_Maximus has quit IRC
21:18:28  <planetmaker> no, I'm not sure for the time when I disabled the patches
21:19:00  <PublicServer> Server closed down by admin
21:19:00  <PublicServer> Saving game...
21:19:04  <PublicServer> Server has exited
21:19:05  *** PublicServer has quit IRC
21:19:09  *** PublicServer has joined #openttdcoop
21:19:09  <PublicServer> Autopilot engaged
21:19:09  <PublicServer> Loading default savegame
21:19:09  *** ChanServ sets mode: +v PublicServer
21:19:09  *** Webster changes topic to "Welcome to #openttdcoop, the Cooperative OpenTTD | PSG #188 (r20146) | STAGE: Building | | New players, use @quickstart and !help | Screenshots: | Coopetition ladder: | Welcome to the depths of insanity | create a wiki userpage"
21:19:24  <Ammler> !screen
21:19:24  <PublicServer> *** Ammler liked to make screenshot of last action, but nobody was working since. (
21:19:34  <Ammler> ^Spike^: please :-)
21:19:54  <PublicServer> *** Spike joined the game
21:19:59  <PublicServer> *** Spike has joined company #1
21:20:04  <Ammler> !unpause
21:20:04  <PublicServer> *** Ammler has unpaused the server. (Use !auto to set it back.)
21:20:08  <^Spike^> !screen
21:20:10  <PublicServer> *** ^Spike^ made screenshot at 0001A256:
21:20:36  <Ammler> sometime, we should fix that command ;-)
21:20:43  <^Spike^> !screen
21:20:45  <PublicServer> *** ^Spike^ made screenshot at 0001AE53:
21:20:48  <^Spike^> i'm sure i did something
21:20:54  <^Spike^> ah..
21:21:15  <Ammler> yes, it does use the "old" location
21:21:26  <Ammler> no idea how, I am no tcl specialist :-P
21:22:11  <^Spike^> don't look at me :)
21:22:15  <^Spike^> been years since i worked on it :)
21:23:08  <PublicServer> *** Spike has left the game (leaving)
21:23:14  <^Spike^> !auto
21:23:14  <PublicServer> *** ^Spike^ has enabled autopause mode.
21:23:22  <Ammler> ^Spike^: if you like to help:
21:24:04  <Ammler> I should change the after 2000 and read the console output
21:24:04  <^Spike^> ... :)
21:24:31  <^Spike^> not in the right mood now to do it.. might do :) but actually... feeling PO'd atm at someone
21:24:44  <Ammler> :-)
21:25:02  <Ammler> no hurry, somewhen before christmas would be fine
21:25:12  <^Spike^> not anyone here.. since i would express that already pretty soon... but well :)
21:34:11  <PublicServer> ***  made screenshot at 0001B05A:
21:46:03  <avdg> hmm… new version :p
21:47:05  *** Seberoth has quit IRC
21:57:50  <PublicServer> *** avdg joined the game
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22:01:41  <avdg> for the mac build
22:03:04  <PublicServer> *** Spike joined the game
22:03:06  <PublicServer> <avdg> hey spike
22:03:39  <PublicServer> <Spike> hi
22:13:42  <Ammler> avdg: is good
22:14:09  <Ammler> but we are at r20146 :-P
22:14:19  <^Spike^> btw.. min players = 1?
22:14:23  <PublicServer> *** Spike has left the game (leaving)
22:14:28  <^Spike^> !auto
22:14:28  <PublicServer> *** ^Spike^ has enabled autopause mode.
22:14:37  <Ammler> !rcon set min_active_clients
22:14:37  <PublicServer> Ammler: Current value for 'min_active_clients' is: '1' (min: 0, max: 255)
22:14:43  <Ammler> someone changed that :-)
22:14:46  <Ammler> !rcon set min_active_clients 2
22:14:49  <^Spike^> not me..
22:14:58  <^Spike^> but i'm off to bed.. see if i feel better tomorrow..
22:14:58  <Ammler> !rcon saveconfig
22:14:59  <PublicServer> Ammler: Saved config.
22:15:27  <^Spike^> cya
22:16:21  <avdg> cya
22:16:38  *** KyleS has joined #openttdcoop
22:16:44  <avdg> uh
22:16:48  <avdg> wrong link :p
22:16:50  <KyleS> !dl win32
22:16:50  <PublicServer> KyleS:
22:17:08  <avdg>
22:17:12  <avdg> for the mac
22:18:33  <KyleS> !password
22:18:33  <PublicServer> KyleS: jotted
22:18:41  <PublicServer> *** KyleS has left the game (connection lost)
22:19:04  <PublicServer> *** KyleS joined the game
22:19:13  <PublicServer> ***  made screenshot at 00000000:
22:19:15  <PublicServer> *** avdg has left the game (connection lost)
22:19:15  *** avdg has quit IRC
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22:24:22  <VVG> !players
22:24:24  <PublicServer> VVG: Client 11 is KyleS, a spectator
22:24:39  <VVG> !ld win32
22:24:46  <VVG> !dl win32
22:24:46  <PublicServer> VVG:
22:25:42  <PublicServer> <KyleS> i'm not used to the various new industries 0_o
22:26:30  <VVG> i may help a bit, i played with firs a bit before
22:28:30  <PublicServer> *** KyleS has joined company #1
22:28:39  <KyleS> !password
22:28:39  <PublicServer> KyleS: lapped
22:31:33  <PublicServer> *** KyleS has left the game (connection lost)
22:32:01  <KyleS> !password
22:32:01  <PublicServer> KyleS: lapped
22:32:40  <PublicServer> *** KyleS joined the game
22:35:15  <VVG> !password
22:35:15  <PublicServer> VVG: trumps
22:35:50  <PublicServer> *** VVG joined the game
22:36:04  <VVG> hm
22:36:11  <VVG> there was no password for company before
22:36:29  <PublicServer> <KyleS> yeah
22:37:08  <PublicServer> <VVG> Did someone add it or is it due to low player count?
22:37:30  <Ammler> remove it
22:37:37  <PublicServer> <KyleS> i don't know, i haven't been on much.  it's the same as the password that Webster gives u tho
22:37:57  <PublicServer> <VVG> it's not, for me
22:38:04  <PublicServer> <KyleS> o_o
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22:38:18  <PublicServer> *** VVG has joined company #1
22:38:34  <PublicServer> <KyleS> i hope i don't drop due to my fail wifi -_-
22:38:41  <Ammler> !rcon companies
22:38:41  <PublicServer> Ammler: #:1(Orange) Company Name: 'Coopers #188'  Year Founded: 1950  Money: 2750739565  Loan: 0  Value: 2765115682  (T:591, R:96, P:10, S:0) protected
22:38:42  <VVG> there, company one is old pass, i joined server with newer one
22:38:54  <Ammler> please remove the company pw
22:39:08  <Ammler> we could ban the one who set it
22:39:08  <PublicServer> <VVG> how do i do that?
22:39:16  <Ammler> just replace it with a *
22:39:19  <PublicServer> <KyleS> removed :o
22:39:24  <PublicServer> *** VVG has joined spectators
22:39:26  <PublicServer> *** VVG has joined company #1
22:39:27  <Ammler> !rcon companies
22:39:27  <PublicServer> Ammler: players
22:39:27  <PublicServer> Ammler: server_info
22:39:27  <PublicServer> Ammler: clients
22:39:27  <PublicServer> Ammler: echo doneclientcount
22:39:27  <PublicServer> Ammler: #:1(Orange) Company Name: 'Coopers #188'  Year Founded: 1950  Money: 2752688880  Loan: 0  Value: 2766965061  (T:591, R:96, P:10, S:0) unprotected
22:39:28  <PublicServer> Ammler: Current/maximum clients:     2/255
22:39:28  <PublicServer> Ammler: Current/maximum companies:   1/ 1
22:39:30  <PublicServer> Ammler: Current/maximum spectators:  0/10
22:39:30  <PublicServer> Ammler: Client #1  name: 'PublicServer'  company: 255  IP:
22:39:32  <PublicServer> Ammler: Client #13  name: 'KyleS'  company: 1  IP:
22:39:32  <PublicServer> Ammler: you have 4 more messages
22:39:35  <PublicServer> <KyleS> i didn't intend to if i did
22:39:35  <Ammler> thanks :-)
22:40:02  <Ammler> forgiven
22:40:11  <PublicServer> <KyleS> thanks :-)
22:40:21  <Ammler> I am too lazy to look, who set it anyway ;-)
22:40:25  <PublicServer> <VVG> How long does it take a cargo to decay at transfer stations?
22:40:54  <PublicServer> <KyleS> i'm not sure
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22:49:15  <PublicServer> ***  made screenshot at 00039D9D:
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23:04:17  <PublicServer> ***  made screenshot at 00061D77:
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23:19:19  <PublicServer> ***  made screenshot at 0000FBAC:
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23:23:56  *** KyleS has quit IRC
23:29:11  <PublicServer> *** VVG has left the game (leaving)
23:29:40  <PublicServer> *** KyleS has left the game (connection lost)
23:34:21  <PublicServer> ***  made screenshot at 00012B06:
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