Log for #openttdcoop on 14th March 2011:
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00:01:20  *** Chris_Booth has joined #openttdcoop
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03:42:44  <CyberSoul> !players
03:42:47  <PublicServer> CyberSoul: There are currently no clients connected to the server
04:00:56  <Guvnor> !players
04:00:59  <PublicServer> Guvnor: There are currently no clients connected to the server
04:01:03  <Guvnor> !password
04:01:03  <PublicServer> Guvnor: hazels
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04:02:42  <CyberSoul> heyo Guv
04:02:56  <Guvnor> yo!!
04:03:07  <Guvnor> just checking on the latest voting  :P
04:03:21  <Guvnor> congratz!!!  looks like it might be your plan  :P
04:04:49  <CyberSoul> yes it does, was just thinking about getting ready to actually lay down where everything will go on the map
04:05:26  <Guvnor> very cool
04:05:42  <Guvnor> well, i am heading to bed...i will see you soon
04:05:50  <Guvnor> ciao
04:06:05  <CyberSoul> see you soon, hopefully we start building
04:06:09  <PublicServer> *** Guvnor has left the game (connection lost)
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04:06:09  <CyberSoul> thats the fun part
04:06:25  <Guvnor> yep  :)
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06:50:40  <CyberSoul> @gap 6
06:50:40  <Webster> CyberSoul: For Trainlength of 6: <= 12 needs 2, 13 - 20 needs 3, 21 - 28 needs 4.
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09:44:49  <Mazur> OMD.
09:45:58  <planetmaker> ODM is so very silent recently :-(
09:46:31  * planetmaker waves a heartily 'good morning' at all though :-)
10:00:31  <V453000> :p morning
10:01:55  <Mazur> Good moaning.
10:03:25  <PublicServer> *** Game still paused (number of players)
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10:04:36  <Mazur> 2-6-0-4 in votes.  No vote from V453000.
10:05:03  <V453000> since when do I vote?
10:05:21  <Mazur> Since when do you not?
10:05:25  <Mazur> :-D
10:05:39  <V453000> I do not vote in games where I have a plan
10:06:04  <V453000> when I see some other plans are good, I do not make plan or even scratch my own, and vote for the one
10:06:47  *** fonsinchen has quit IRC
10:06:56  <Mazur> So, yo0ur not voting actualloy means: all other plan s are rubbish, vote mine.
10:07:01  <Mazur> Interesting.
10:07:04  <Mazur> :-)
10:07:27  <V453000> uhm, not entirely, but sort of
10:07:48  <V453000> guess one can defend his idea proposal
10:08:37  <V453000> !password
10:08:37  <PublicServer> V453000: flunky
10:09:05  <PublicServer> *** Game still paused (number of players)
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10:09:48  <PublicServer> <V453000> especially since I am at least trying to do something special ;)
10:10:58  <PublicServer> *** V453000 has left the game (leaving)
10:10:58  <PublicServer> *** Game paused (number of players)
10:11:14  <PublicServer> <Mazur> Yes, but some people like to do something familiar sometimes.  Work within their capabilities, rather than just above them.
10:11:44  <PublicServer> <Mazur> And so postpone your latest invention for another game.
10:12:00  <V453000> do you really think I will make one plan twice?
10:12:13  <V453000> or based on the same idea
10:12:15  <V453000> no.
10:12:28  <Mazur> No, but you might propose an invention twice.
10:12:40  <V453000> why would I do that?
10:13:34  <Mazur> Why not?  Just because people weren't eager for it first time round, doesn't mean they reject it totally.
10:14:30  <V453000> I cannot be bothered to please people to accept it
10:14:52  <V453000> either yes, or now
10:14:55  <V453000> or not
10:15:06  <Mazur> Well, please yourself.
10:15:40  <V453000> ..?
10:16:01  <Mazur> I cannot be bothered to play a challenging game with new ideas every single time.
10:16:11  <Mazur> I simply have not the stamina.
10:17:08  <V453000> sure, I can understand that
10:17:15  <Mazur> Since the map is never hte same, no game is the same, anyway.
10:18:40  <V453000> I did not say someone else cannot propose the idea I showed here sometime in the future, I just said I am not going to do it
10:18:49  <Mazur> I know.
10:19:18  <Mazur> It's less likely they remember it, though, than you remembering it.
10:20:24  <V453000> true
10:21:36  <Mazur> So if I'd have a new idea, I'd pitch it for 2 (maybe even three) games, when the maps were accommodating for it.
10:22:07  <Mazur> Depending on how good I think the idea is and initial reactions to it.
10:23:25  <Mazur> But that's me.  I don't have a plethora of new ideas, like you do, anyway, so I probably care for each one more than you do.  :-)
10:24:34  <V453000> I do care about each of them, but find it offending to suggest one multiple times
10:25:02  <V453000> unless it is somehow better than the previous version :)
10:25:09  <Mazur> :-)
10:28:00  <Mazur> Anyway, bought a couple of 2 Tb disks, now, which will arrive end of the week. :-)  SO next weekend I will be r3eviving my desktop.
10:29:57  <V453000> hehe
10:30:09  <V453000> any news from Sylf by the way? :(
10:30:17  <V453000> @seen Sylf
10:30:17  <Webster> V453000: Sylf was last seen in #openttdcoop 4 days, 4 hours, 34 minutes, and 5 seconds ago: <Sylf> !date
10:30:24  <Mazur> Nope, not seen him.
10:31:35  <Mazur> He was last on stable, the 10th.
10:32:05  <V453000> :|
10:32:26  <Mazur> Why, was anything the matter?
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10:32:50  <Mazur> Or is he in Japan?
10:33:23  <V453000> he is from Japan
10:33:29  <Mazur> Oh.
10:33:41  <Mazur> Did not know or remember tgha
10:33:46  <Mazur> that.
10:34:44  <Mazur> He may simply have no power or no power to spare for games.
10:34:56  <V453000> I hope so
10:35:03  <V453000> or, I hope it is not worse
10:35:06  <Mazur> Or fallen hardware.
10:35:08  <Mazur> Yes.
10:35:28  <Mazur> Any idea where in Japan he's supposed to be?
10:37:47  <V453000> not at all
10:37:59  <planetmaker> uh... :S
10:38:05  <planetmaker> let's hope the best
10:38:16  <Mazur> Yes.
10:43:54  <SmatZ> population of Japan is ~130mil, and even if there were 13000 deads, it would still be just 1/10000 of population
10:44:12  <SmatZ> giving 99.99% chance he is fine :)
10:44:15  <planetmaker> well. 13k is the _confirmed_ chance
10:44:16  <SmatZ> (alive)
10:44:23  <planetmaker> "chance"
10:44:38  <SmatZ> true, the number changes often
10:44:45  <planetmaker> I'd not wonder if it rose significantly still when looking at how whole towns look like
10:45:13  <SmatZ> yeah :(
10:45:53  <SmatZ> still, even if there were 1mil dead, the chance he is alive is ~99% :)
10:46:09  <V453000> :p
10:47:48  <V453000> !password
10:47:48  <PublicServer> V453000: retort
10:48:01  <tycoondemon>
10:48:02  <Webster> Title: Satellite Photos - Japan Before and After Tsunami - Interactive Feature - (at
10:48:02  <SmatZ> hello V453000 :)
10:48:05  <PublicServer> *** V453000 has left the game (general error)
10:48:05  <PublicServer> *** Game still paused (number of players)
10:48:14  <SmatZ> V453000: "general error"?
10:48:16  <PublicServer> *** Game still paused (number of players)
10:48:20  <V453000> uhmf
10:48:20  <SmatZ> what were you doing?
10:48:34  <tycoondemon> !dl win64
10:48:34  <PublicServer> tycoondemon:
10:48:37  <V453000> map download just stops
10:48:45  <V453000> without error messages, nothing
10:49:21  <PublicServer> *** Game still paused (number of players)
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10:59:06  <Mazur> Brainfart.
11:05:47  <tycoondemon> !password
11:05:47  <PublicServer> tycoondemon: frolic
11:06:15  <PublicServer> *** Game still paused (number of players)
11:06:19  <PublicServer> <Player> whoah
11:08:00  <PublicServer> *** Player has changed his/her name to tycoondemon
11:08:08  <PublicServer> <tycoondemon> booom
11:11:29  <V453000> hi :)
11:25:06  <V453000> --- did CyberSoul just add there a hub that is actually not in our games? o_O
11:25:17  <V453000> rebuilding it offline, and adding it there
11:25:18  <V453000> wtf.
11:25:37  <Tray> !password
11:25:37  <PublicServer> Tray: coasts
11:25:47  <PublicServer> *** Game still paused (number of players)
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11:34:58  <PublicServer> <tycoondemon> hmmm
11:35:51  <Mazur> You think?
11:37:03  <PublicServer> ***  made screenshot at 0000422A:
11:40:48  <planetmaker> V453000, in my opinion that is ok
11:41:09  <planetmaker> The junctionary is supposed to be a junction dictionary and not a show-case of what we have exactly like that in one of our games
11:51:12  <PublicServer> *** tycoondemon has left the game (leaving)
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11:56:52  <Tray> !password
11:56:52  <PublicServer> Tray: murals
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12:05:35  <Mazur> Hey, a Ceebeebee.
12:05:43  <Chris_Booth> hi Mazur
12:07:03  <PublicServer> ***  made screenshot at 000080CC:
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12:09:00  <Mazur> Though fpor bragging purposes, many would _prefer_ all examples to come from our own games, of course.
12:09:10  <Mazur> -p
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12:12:52  <iklucas> !password
12:12:52  <PublicServer> iklucas: champs
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13:09:19  <Ammler> !rcon magic_bulldozer
13:09:19  <PublicServer> Ammler: Magic bulldozer is disabled.
13:17:41  <SmatZ> [12:25:18] <V453000> rebuilding it offline, and adding it there <== :-D
13:18:26  <CyberSoul> Heyo, yes I posted a BBH to the junctionary that I wish had been there when I was first looking at the site a while ago
13:19:08  <CyberSoul> !password
13:19:08  <PublicServer> CyberSoul: lashes
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13:20:11  <planetmaker> looks fine on first sight, CyberSoul :-)
13:20:33  <PublicServer> <iklucas> hmm its5-5
13:21:00  <CyberSoul> Almost all the hubs were 4way but a lot of the wiki talks about how modern hubs are all 3way
13:21:20  <planetmaker> that's right. much easier to build
13:21:31  <planetmaker> and more important to expand
13:21:40  <CyberSoul> But there was no example of a large 3way hub, which I had wanted to see
13:23:25  <CyberSoul> So I thought it would be good to show one
13:25:29  <planetmaker> yeah, that's quite fine with me. I'd not mind if it got updated even more thoroughly :-)
13:26:46  <CyberSoul> I hadn't built much with you guys yet so it came from when I modified 202 for more train capacity solo
13:28:07  <CyberSoul> I hope thats ok, if not then someone who built a good 3way should post that instead
13:31:24  <CyberSoul> Reading the logs, wow, I hope Sylf is ok
13:34:12  <planetmaker> CyberSoul, the problem usually is *someone* has to do / post / update it ;-)
13:36:05  <planetmaker> in my eyes it's highly welcome, if someone does so actually
13:36:36  <planetmaker> provided it presents current openttdcoop building standards ;-)
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13:41:46  <CyberSoul> not quite following the / post / update part?
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13:44:04  <planetmaker> CyberSoul, in other words: *someone* has to write that stuff. And I'm happy, if there is someone
13:44:41  <CyberSoul> In his user page, Sylf's location is Kansas, but he is originally from Nagoya, Japan
13:45:02  <planetmaker> nagoya is far off the quake affected area
13:46:11  <CyberSoul> Oh pm, yes, like I said, I posted it only because I had wanted to see something similar and everything said ancient and not much was 3 way
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13:46:58  <planetmaker> Ok, and I'll be happy, if it is not the last contribution of yours to the wiki or blog ;-)
13:47:06  <CyberSoul> It is weird the only page edits are Mark and then me
13:47:16  <CyberSoul> How do you start a blog?
13:47:35  <CyberSoul> I couldn't find a button for that?
13:47:46  <planetmaker> you know, do you?
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13:48:05  <planetmaker> It's where you can write an article about *whatever*. For example a game review of the last psg or so
13:48:13  <planetmaker> you need to register there separately
13:48:35  <CyberSoul> Ah register there separately is the key I was missing
13:48:52  <planetmaker> yeah, unfortunately we don't have yet a unified sign-on
13:50:22  <CyberSoul> I had another question for you pm. How do patches get incorporated into openttd? I put in a vote on flyspray for a patch that adds hotkeys to the signal gui
13:51:09  <CyberSoul> I thinks its really helpful when doing the coop style heavy signal work
13:51:38  <planetmaker> well... I'm afraid that may not help much :-) Patches get incorporated into OpenTTD when a) a patch exists which fulfills the coding style criteria, b) fits the game and c) finds a dev sufficiently interested in it to actually review and commit it
13:51:57  <planetmaker> I think I saw the entry.
13:52:27  <planetmaker> the option to add hot keys to the signal gui sounds like a sensible idea to me
13:54:08  <planetmaker> a) can of course be substituted by "find a dev sufficiently interested in it to actually write that patch" ;-)
13:54:34  <planetmaker> the only thing which we're luckily never short of are ideas, though :-)
13:56:17  <CyberSoul> oh, I saw you name around the bug tracker, so I thought you would be good to ask :P
13:56:36  <planetmaker> no problem, it's ok
13:57:35  <CyberSoul> If I can help get that patch into an appropriate coding style, then let me know :)
14:00:06  <planetmaker> well. I haven't looked at it. What's the FS #?
14:01:25  <CyberSoul>
14:09:12  <Ammler> he, do not use "good for coop players" as reason, devs rather don't include it then ;-)
14:10:07  <CyberSoul> I took it out and put it back in twice, I guess I guessed wrong in the end :)
14:10:53  <CyberSoul> changed back now :P
14:11:05  <planetmaker> we see every change made to the tracker :-P
14:11:35  <Ammler> we are a special kind of players, the main target are teh eyecandy SP players
14:12:05  <planetmaker> I'd not say 'main target'. But the game has to consider all kind of players
14:12:11  <CyberSoul> You are very "special" players
14:12:28  <Ammler> :-)
14:12:28  <planetmaker> As such a 'feature' which makes it worse for most players, is very unlikely to be included
14:12:37  <planetmaker> And yes, coop is 'special' ;-)
14:12:45  <CyberSoul> But still, signals are a huge part of train network building, even for regular people
14:13:00  <planetmaker> yes
14:13:46  <Ammler> yeah, just meant try to find reaons valid for everyone to promote a patch :-)
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14:14:01  <TroyMcClure> !password
14:14:01  <PublicServer> TroyMcClure: herein
14:14:10  <Ammler> and "good for coop" isn't one
14:14:32  <PublicServer> *** Game still paused (number of players)
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14:14:50  <planetmaker> ;-) Yes; even though I nearly exclusively play coop, I have to agree with that statement
14:15:04  <CyberSoul> True, thats why I took it back out now
14:20:00  <CyberSoul> heyo Troy, PSG is in voting stage
14:20:11  <PublicServer> <Troy McClure> I see
14:20:17  <PublicServer> *** Troy McClure has joined company #1
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14:22:03  <PublicServer> ***  made screenshot at 00003029:
14:32:58  <CyberSoul> gtg for a while
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14:33:56  <planetmaker> enjoy
14:38:43  <Tray> !password
14:38:43  <PublicServer> Tray: gushed
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15:12:50  <V453000> I think that updating the wiki is highly welcome, and th junctionary just is outdated. But please tell me why to rebuild stuff from games and then put it there. That just does not feel very "cooperative" to me..
15:21:10  <planetmaker> V453000, for a cleaner result maybe?
15:21:22  <planetmaker> IMHO it doesn't matter at all how the content was generated
15:21:38  <planetmaker> as long as it represents coop style and methods
15:22:06  <planetmaker> after all you present in the blog also ideas and screenies from private games. This is the same thing IMHO
15:22:41  <V453000> total hub demolition is not a cleaner result
15:23:05  <planetmaker> if the re-build hub is cleaner: yes.
15:23:18  <planetmaker> But imho it's pointless and totally uninteresting how the hub was created
15:23:32  <V453000> besides, I would understand our junctionary as snapshots of the best things, not something that someone created, not related to our games at all
15:23:46  <planetmaker> would you object without that piece of information?
15:23:55  <V453000> ?
15:24:07  <planetmaker> I understand the junctionary as an collection of different design ideas
15:24:45  <V453000> well, sure it should be, but why to show them from elsewhere than our games, who keeps ideas for his own games and does not share them anyway
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15:27:59  <iklucas> !pw
15:28:02  <iklucas> !password
15:28:02  <PublicServer> iklucas: gushed
15:28:11  <PublicServer> *** Game still paused (number of players)
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15:28:17  <PublicServer> <iklucas> 5-5:(
15:28:36  <PublicServer> <iklucas> tray, are u more in for chris's idea or V453000?
15:28:59  <Tray> V's, I changed my opinion.
15:29:21  <PublicServer> <iklucas> hmm i actually vote V's because i didnt want cyber's^^
15:29:55  <PublicServer> <iklucas> as i couldnt choose between chrris and V
15:33:01  <PublicServer> *** Tray has left the game (leaving)
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15:33:32  <PublicServer> <iklucas> it cant go on with 1 player?
15:34:31  <TroyMcClure> no, there has to be 2
15:34:39  <TroyMcClure> otherwise it isn't coop, now is it :D
15:34:49  <iklucas> :P
15:35:09  <TroyMcClure> btw, it's still in voting stage
15:35:15  <TroyMcClure> what did you want to do?
15:36:06  <PublicServer> *** Game still paused (number of players)
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15:36:46  <PublicServer> <iklucas> was like
15:36:52  <PublicServer> <iklucas> funking around with maglev:P
15:36:58  <PublicServer> *** Troy McClure has joined company #1
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15:37:04  <PublicServer> ***  made screenshot at 000064D2:
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15:37:27  <PublicServer> <Troy McClure> nah, quit earlier
15:37:33  <PublicServer> <iklucas> XD
15:37:33  <PublicServer> <Troy McClure> it got boring
15:37:59  <PublicServer> <iklucas> oh u voted cyber:(
15:38:39  <PublicServer> <Troy McClure> something with a circle in it seems more exciting than just massive straight line
15:39:05  <PublicServer> <Troy McClure> Actually wanted to do CB's idea, but too little votes
15:39:11  <iklucas> yep thats why i voted V
15:39:19  <iklucas> little circles at junctions;)
15:39:53  <PublicServer> <Troy McClure> how'd  you mean little circles at junctions?
15:40:21  <PublicServer> <iklucas> V's idea is making long trains  and small trains on 1 track
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15:40:35  <PublicServer> <iklucas> little circles at junctions to make the long trains queue up,
15:40:49  <PublicServer> <iklucas> like all these examples
15:40:59  <PublicServer> <iklucas> long trains bring from drop to the factory
15:41:11  <PublicServer> <iklucas> transfer to drop*
15:42:13  <PublicServer> <iklucas> its kinda cool that there will be junctions that make long trains go to left, but small trains go to right
15:42:31  <PublicServer> <Troy McClure> hmm
15:43:01  <V453000> thank you for paying attention and trying to understand the plan, iklucas, not many people bother with trying :)
15:43:16  <PublicServer> <Troy McClure> I resent that
15:43:42  <PublicServer> <iklucas> many people just see ur map, with drop stations on 1 line
15:43:45  <PublicServer> <iklucas> and think that's it
15:43:51  <PublicServer> <iklucas> so did i first time i saw it:P
15:44:33  <PublicServer> <iklucas> and actually ur system will be the biggest challenge, thats why i voted for it
15:45:11  <PublicServer> <Troy McClure> I;ll check later
15:45:13  <PublicServer> <iklucas> or did i misunderstand ur plan?:P
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15:46:01  <V453000> iklucas: well ... challenge ... you cannot say since we never seen it :p
15:46:26  <PublicServer> <iklucas> ;)
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15:47:13  <iklucas> im off;) will see result later
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16:08:52  <Vinnie_nl> !password
16:08:52  <PublicServer> Vinnie_nl: inaner
16:10:15  <CyberSoul> V453000: "well, sure it should be, but why to show them from elsewhere than our games,  who keeps ideas for his own games and does not share them anyway"
16:10:37  <V453000> yes.
16:11:05  <CyberSoul> First, i fail to see how posting it to the junctionary is keeping it to myself
16:11:45  <CyberSoul> Second, us normal people can't unpause the game at will or increase the train limit to see what breaks
16:12:29  <V453000> well, every hub in the junctionary is from our games
16:12:35  <CyberSoul> So I actually started those modifications to see what I could do to improve PSG202 itself, and incorporated a lot of what I found out back there
16:12:39  <V453000> why do you build your own hub in SP and then add it
16:13:09  <V453000> that is what server is for, fix stuff with others, make it nice, then add it to the junctionary
16:14:30  <CyberSoul> Well I didn't rebuild it for the purpose of adding to the junctionary, its just that when it was done, I realized that it looked like a decent 3way, which was lacking in the junctionary
16:14:56  <V453000> why not to add any other 3way from the games
16:15:14  <V453000> adding there something what you did, not "we" did on the server is not "our junctionary"
16:15:14  <CyberSoul> I remembered wanting to see an example like it when I was first coming to the junctionary, and so I posted it
16:15:21  <CyberSoul> Well, because I didn
16:16:10  <CyberSoul> Should I have posted someone elses junction to the junctionary then? That seems wierd also?
16:16:29  <V453000> sure, why not
16:16:47  <V453000> it is not "yours". it is "coop"!!!
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16:17:19  <V453000> same as the junctionary
16:17:35  <CyberSoul> coop much less likely to be mine than to be yours V
16:18:00  <CyberSoul> And I thought it was just a directory of good junctions
16:18:18  <V453000> sure, add examples, it is great and greatly appreciated and I like it, but build the hub in the game first, build it with others or let them cooperate on it, and then add it, seems the natural way for me for a "coop junctionary"
16:18:38  <V453000> yes, a directory for good junctions. From our games
16:18:52  <V453000> good/somehow interesting/whatever
16:19:01  <CyberSoul> Now that you mention it, it does say "we have developed during our games"
16:19:18  <CyberSoul> So I can remove it
16:19:54  <V453000> add some hub of yours, add some more from other games, add anything there :) it is nice, but just please it being "ours"
16:20:17  <V453000> if you find some nice way how to build hubs, have your SP game special, or something like that, sure do show it on the blog
16:21:45  <CyberSoul> I couldn't figure out how to use the blog until planetmaker helped me earlier *doh*
16:22:40  <V453000> :)
16:23:12  <CyberSoul> So should I remove it then? And wait for a good example from a game?
16:23:45  <V453000> preferably. :)
16:23:59  <V453000> well, wait ... you can also look to the archives for it
16:24:14  <V453000> or build it in some future game :)
16:26:18  <planetmaker> ^ ;-)
16:27:03  <CyberSoul> Someone should post a good 3 lane plus three way there, as the junctionary doesn't really help newbies with modern BBHs at the moment
16:28:14  * planetmaker chooses a random direction to point to - and behold, it turns out to be directly pointing at CyberSoul ;-)
16:28:21  <V453000> the archive contains plenty :)
16:28:42  <V453000> analyze hubs there, and eventually add them would be my suggestion :)
16:31:38  <CyberSoul> okay, it should be removed now
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16:35:41  <CyberSoul> Plus I figured out how to make the 4+3->3 join cleaner now, so it will be better next time anyway :P
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16:36:11  <V453000> :)
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18:44:52  <Vinnie> !password
18:44:52  <PublicServer> Vinnie: inaner
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19:09:31  <Tray> !password
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19:33:20  <iklucas> !password
19:33:20  <PublicServer> iklucas: mascot
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19:57:30  <MrD2DG> !password
19:57:30  <PublicServer> MrD2DG: mascot
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20:09:21  <iklucas> !password
20:09:21  <PublicServer> iklucas: mascot
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20:12:22  <PublicServer> <iklucas> more votes needed:P
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20:15:52  <PublicServer> <Chris Booth> I only have 3 votes realy TBH
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