Log for #openttdcoop on 22nd July 2011:
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01:47:42  <KART35> hi, could anyone help me with a bit of a problem?
01:48:22  <KART35> ottd crashes whenever i try to connect to a server using some of the GRFs
01:48:37  <KART35> ive done a fresh install of ottd 1.1.1
01:48:47  <KART35> same setup as others who can join sucessfully
01:49:10  <KART35> also, it crashes while trying to load the d/l 'd map
01:49:21  <KART35>
01:49:40  <KART35> thats the crash report it dumped
01:51:22  <KART35> also, after attemoting to re-open the crahs save, i noticed this
01:51:23  <KART35>
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05:56:05  <ryton> !password
05:56:05  <PublicServer> ryton: puking
05:56:09  <ryton> !screen
05:56:09  <PublicServer> *** ryton liked to make screenshot of last action, but nobody was working since. (
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08:09:48  <PublicServer> *** Sigma liked to make screenshot of last action, but nobody was working since. (
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10:04:24  <Kangoo> !password
10:04:25  <PublicServer> Kangoo: median
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10:09:31  <tulcod> @quickstart
10:09:32  <Webster> Quickstart - #openttdcoop Wiki -
10:10:00  <tulcod> ugh
10:14:19  <Kangoo> ugh?
10:14:30  <tulcod> yeah, i was just on that page to read the instructions to type @quickstart
10:15:22  <Kangoo> ^^,
10:15:49  <tulcod> so how can i just see one of your creations?
10:16:01  <tulcod> and i've got openttd 1.1.1 here, is that problematic?
10:16:50  <Kangoo> you need correct version to join server
10:17:01  <Kangoo> try !download to get the correct link
10:17:18  <tulcod> !download
10:17:18  <PublicServer> tulcod: !download autostart|autottd|lin|lin64|osx|ottdau|source|win32|win64|win9x
10:17:18  <PublicServer> tulcod:
10:18:00  <tulcod> Kangoo: and all hell breaks loose if i use trunk?
10:18:33  <Kangoo> no hell here..
10:19:12  <Kangoo> keep it as seperate installation if you want.
10:20:11  <tulcod> well my package manager offers 1.1.1 and trunk
10:20:23  <tulcod> so if i can just use trunk (r22680) that'd be great
10:21:54  <Kangoo> no problem in trying. If you get in, you get in. If you dont, get 22637 ;)
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10:32:20  <tulcod> well i managed to get an autosave running
10:33:41  <tulcod> wow some of those hubs are horribly complicated
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10:35:47  <Kangoo> yep, I try to keep mu hands off the BBHs
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10:40:54  <tulcod> you know, i always use full-length trains
10:41:02  <tulcod> seems like that's a bad style
10:41:26  <Kangoo> nah, trainlength varies through different games.
10:41:31  <tulcod> and those steam trains sure are picking up speed
10:41:40  <tulcod> while i'm always upgrading to the latest and greatest :P
10:41:44  <Kangoo> the focus isnt on making money, but building networks.
10:41:57  <tulcod> well yeah, but when is your network good?
10:42:11  <tulcod> how do you know you've succeeded?
10:42:16  <Sigma> I found out my building style is called "Chaos" in your terms (hello btw) :P
10:42:21  <Kangoo> when everything is connected and trains running smooth.
10:42:30  <Kangoo> hi Sigma
10:42:30  <Sigma> and viewing your games I know why...
10:42:57  <tulcod> Kangoo, so when it runs smooth and everything's connected, you're "done"?
10:43:15  <Kangoo> pretty much. plan completed.
10:43:30  <Kangoo> Guess there is not long left of this game
10:43:42  <Kangoo> m very fresh at these games myself
10:43:53  <Sigma> I can't help but wonder about the "priority" constructions as that's always been a major pain for me
10:43:57  <Kangoo> *I'm
10:44:04  <Sigma> they are basically just trip switches carrying the signal ahead to a merge?
10:44:27  <Kangoo> yes
10:45:17  <Kangoo> --> merging trains get a red signal that does not inflickt on trains on the prioritized line.
10:46:04  <Sigma> wouldn't it be more elegant to have a special kind of signal that reserves a path including the merge?
10:46:06  <hylje_> priority is meant to guarantee the prioritized line to never slow down
10:46:14  <Sigma> that you would place on the priority line and not on the side line?
10:46:19  <hylje_> we don't have magic signals
10:46:39  <Sigma> I know
10:46:42  <Sigma> not yet at least
10:47:25  <Kangoo> guess there are not that many alternatives to the way its done... ;)
10:49:01  <Kangoo> hylje: you have any idea when current game will end?
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10:50:00  <hylje_> uh i'd have to have a look myself for that
10:50:48  <Kangoo> not that much to do these days ;)
10:54:01  <Sigma> in my offline games I switched mostly to path signals but I can see the drawbacks on a 1000+ train network lol
10:54:06  <Sigma> where you want even signal spacing
10:54:27  <hylje_> the main drawback of path signals is processing power
10:54:56  <hylje_> which is kind of a big deal with the way openttd does multiplayer
10:56:51  <Sigma> ah
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11:00:24  <Sigma> well it's awesome seeing one of my childhood favourite games still receive so much attention lol
11:00:32  <Sigma> I've played it on and off
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11:17:57  <tulcod> hylje_: well, and trains following eachother aren't really helped by path signals, right?
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11:19:12  <hylje_> nope
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11:32:42  <Sigma> you can give more priority though by placing a path signal further ahead of a merge
11:32:58  <Sigma> but it causes trains to reserve more space than they need
11:33:27  <hylje_> this is bad on peak capacity where it will stop if there's a train at minimum distance
11:33:42  <hylje_> on its front
11:33:48  <Sigma> yeah
11:34:20  <Sigma> and it causes annoying alternating trains in my private experiments
11:34:29  <Sigma> with trains accelerating from standstill
11:43:28  <Sigma> (trying to grasp your design concepts)
11:44:03  <hylje_> yup
11:44:34  <hylje_> which causes the trains to slow down all the way to the first opening that's longer than acceleration distance
11:44:47  <hylje_> you can observe the same thing in car traffic jams
11:45:07  <Sigma> yeah
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11:46:16  <ryton> !screen
11:46:16  <PublicServer> *** ryton liked to make screenshot of last action, but nobody was working since. (
11:46:56  <Sigma> I handled that by allowing trains to switch to the other main track, but that only really moves the problem if there are oncoming trains on that one
11:47:30  <Sigma> so your networks don't seem to have those but just allow each track a full choice of exits
11:47:36  <ryton> so you made a balancer? just make it the other way too (crossing eachother)
11:47:41  <Sigma> yeah
11:47:45  <hylje_> actually because of fickle timing issues with signals the optimal priority join does have that extra track on the mainline
11:47:48  <Sigma> but it's still not perfect
11:47:55  <ryton> but then indeed, a problem on both lanes isnt solved there :-)
11:48:10  <Sigma> and it always goes wrong once network usage starts rising
11:48:26  <ryton> hard to make a fully optimal network
11:48:43  <ryton> just double the number of lines, that solves most issues temporarily :p
11:48:59  <Sigma> true
11:49:23  <Sigma> and that's how I did it, organically, but it's nice to have a dependable main structure first
11:49:49  <Sigma> since in my offline games I always end up spending all the time upgrading
11:49:53  <Sigma> isntead of adding new connections
11:49:56  <Sigma> lol
11:51:53  <Sigma> usually just giving up in the end
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12:00:25  <tulcod> ryton: you know, for big areas, i'm starting to feel that intricate structures can save you time because you don't have to find yet another way to cross the water
12:00:51  <tulcod> i mean, especially if you have a mountaneous map, mainlines kinda seem to be helping
12:06:03  <Kangoo> not to mention that numerous different, small lines with few train really doesnt look as good or real...
12:15:42  <Sigma> yeah it gives you more time to do useful work such as connecting new sources
12:16:04  <Sigma> but I can see the necessity of having multiple people working on such a behemoth
12:16:34  <Sigma> really impressive :)
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12:32:37  <TWerkhoven> !password
12:32:37  <PublicServer> TWerkhoven: sickle
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12:44:20  <PublicServer> <Mazur> Oh, you were not hoping to get busy...?
12:44:50  <PublicServer> <TWerkhoven> not yet
12:44:56  <PublicServer> <TWerkhoven> just looking over the wood drop
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12:46:39  <Absolutis> !password
12:46:39  <PublicServer> Absolutis: sickle
12:47:16  <Absolutis> !password
12:47:16  <PublicServer> Absolutis: sickle
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12:58:06  <PublicServer> ***  made screenshot at 0000CCEE:
13:05:52  <Sigma> !password
13:05:53  <PublicServer> Sigma: breast
13:05:57  <Sigma> :O
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13:22:49  <MrD2DG> !password
13:22:50  <PublicServer> MrD2DG: bedbug
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13:28:37  <tulcod> the wiki says: "stations are *always* connected to sidelines". do you mean that it's never connected to ML?
13:28:57  <V453000> sure thing
13:29:03  <PublicServer> <MrD2DG> MSH?
13:29:05  <V453000> that is what makes the systematic hierarchy
13:29:20  <V453000> MSH is main station
13:29:27  <V453000> not just "station"
13:29:33  <PublicServer> <MrD2DG> Oh
13:29:38  <V453000> and still MSH is a rather hybrid SLH in most cases
13:29:46  <PublicServer> <MrD2DG> True
13:29:59  <V453000> well hard to say, depends on traffic toing to the drop
13:30:18  <tulcod> are circular mainlines an option?
13:30:38  <tulcod> for example, when your map is square and the cities are pretty much spread out evenly
13:30:48  <tulcod> (with little in the middle)
13:33:39  <V453000> depends really
13:33:50  <V453000> see psg198 if that is what you mean by circular
13:34:04  <V453000> or 206
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13:35:51  <tulcod> V453000: yeah
13:36:05  <tulcod> loaded 206, that's pretty much what i meant
13:36:22  <V453000> well, you got your answer then
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13:43:01  <Sigma> do you guys usually play on rough terrain, and with/without much terraforming? or does all of that vary across games?
13:43:11  <PublicServer> <MrD2DG> Usualy rough
13:43:39  <PublicServer> <MrD2DG> Excessive TF is normally frowned upon...
13:45:27  <Sigma> good :p
13:45:43  <PublicServer> <MrD2DG> You like rough terrain? :P
13:46:11  <V453000> flat is boring
13:46:14  <Sigma> I like building around obstacles
13:46:23  <Sigma> either terrain or AI
13:46:31  <PublicServer> <MrD2DG> True, but too mountainous can be just as annoying IMO
13:46:43  <PublicServer> <MrD2DG> This map is fine
13:47:18  <Sigma> yeah but it does force you to think about locations for important hubs
13:47:28  <Sigma> to accommodate all the connections
13:47:39  <PublicServer> <MrD2DG> Hmm well i guess, but plans normally dicate that anyway
13:47:46  <PublicServer> <MrD2DG> *dictate
13:47:56  <Sigma> I'll have to see you start a game from scratch
13:48:14  <PublicServer> <MrD2DG> This your first game?
13:48:20  <V453000> more mountainouse = better
13:48:30  <PublicServer> <MrD2DG> No V :/
13:48:33  <Absolutis> !password
13:48:33  <PublicServer> Absolutis: singed
13:49:21  <Sigma> well I've been playing this game on/off since my childhood
13:49:41  <Sigma> but usually more organically, just connecting whatever I felt like together with no real plan
13:49:51  <PublicServer> <MrD2DG> Oh :P
13:51:28  <Sigma> such a dedicated network is way too much effort for a single player game :p
13:51:39  <PublicServer> <MrD2DG> :P True
13:51:43  <V453000> Sigma: even that is possible to do with reaching good results
13:51:57  <V453000> you just have to think more while doing so :) but it is possible
13:52:07  <Sigma> haha yeah
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13:52:47  <Sigma> but it's easier this way
13:53:52  <V453000> certainly but you can get an immense mess in decades and ... game over usually
13:55:47  <PublicServer> <MrD2DG> So is anyone playing? :D
13:56:15  <Sigma> still it's mesmerising... even better than a plastic model train
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14:02:12  <tulcod> what is the point of train depots as described on ?
14:03:36  <tulcod> ("don't create your own trains")
14:03:44  <MrD2DG> Makes train cloning very easy
14:03:58  <tulcod> so it's just a time saver?
14:04:14  <MrD2DG> Also since reversed locos were removed from OTTD, it allows us to clone modified trains that have had their locos reversed
14:04:44  <tulcod> which gives the advantage of.... :P
14:04:58  <MrD2DG> Its a 'visual' thing ask V :P
14:05:13  <tulcod> :P
14:05:22  <tulcod> sounds somewhat like reversed airplanes
14:05:47  <tulcod> with the tail as the front, steering the plane immensely unstabilized
14:06:29  <MrD2DG> :P, its only for doubled locos so instead of having 2 at the front you can one head at the front and the other (reversed) at the back
14:06:39  <MrD2DG> *have
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14:06:59  <tulcod> ah
14:07:55  <MrD2DG> But yeah, just a visual thing makes no difference to the trains...
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14:11:17  <V453000> it is "just" visual but the breaking of the reversing is retarded. :(
14:13:07  <V453000> but well as long as the old version is compatible, coop games are fine
14:13:44  <tulcod> so most stations are connected such that you enter the SL aimed back to the ML. what if the factory or whatever is further up the SL?
14:13:52  <tulcod> should you check?
14:15:03  <tulcod> and then connect your station otherwise?
14:15:53  <V453000> cant say I understand there
14:16:25  <V453000> what is the situation and what do you want to do?
14:17:32  <tulcod> well, let's say you have a coal mine station
14:17:35  <tulcod> connected to SL, to ML
14:17:58  <tulcod> as i understand it, such stations are always connected to the SL, in such a way that trains leaving the station always travel to the ML
14:18:14  <tulcod> but what if the power plant is further up the SL, ie, further away from the ML
14:18:24  <tulcod> should you connect the coal mine station aimed at that?
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14:19:14  <MrD2DG> A powerplant would never be connected to a SL?
14:19:40  <tulcod> :o why not?
14:19:51  <MrD2DG> Because its a main station
14:20:03  <tulcod> ugh. but i thought all stations were connected to an SL..
14:20:40  <MrD2DG> No, mostly primary industry stations (eg mines,forests) and maybe transfers
14:23:48  <MrD2DG> Main stations like coal drops, factories etc are usually connected to the ML directly (at the end) or via a MSH
14:24:46  <tulcod> hm ok
14:27:12  <MrD2DG> I think the best way to understand would be to watch a few games or download some previous ones to check out
14:27:24  <MrD2DG> Can actually see everything in practice
14:33:26  <tulcod> yeah, doing that while reading the wiki
14:34:02  <tulcod> i love how a lot of games just use steam or diesel engines
14:34:10  <tulcod> except maybe for some control systems
14:34:40  <PublicServer> <MrD2DG> :P
14:36:32  <tulcod> am i right that generally, you don't do any passenger transport *at all*?
14:36:44  <hylje_> we generally do either or
14:36:48  <hylje_> not both
14:36:54  <PublicServer> <MrD2DG> ^
14:37:10  <PublicServer> <MrD2DG> Was a nice PAX game a few games ago :)
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18:25:37  <tulcod> !password
18:25:37  <PublicServer> tulcod: encase
18:25:42  <alex_> hey im about to join in would somebody mind tutoring me a bit
18:25:55  <PublicServer> *** Game still paused (number of players)
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18:26:09  <Chris_Booth> hi alex_
18:26:17  <alex_> hi
18:26:32  <Chris_Booth> we generaly don't tutor people here
18:26:42  <alex_> oh
18:26:43  <Chris_Booth> but we do comment on people works
18:26:55  <Chris_Booth> and advise how to improve on your works
18:27:05  <alex_> oh ok
18:27:28  <Chris_Booth> we do on the other hand have a tutorial on the openttdcoop website
18:27:45  <alex_> yeah i checked that out but im still a little confused
18:28:18  <Chris_Booth> well the best thing to do is join in the current game, and watch what people are doing
18:28:22  <Chris_Booth> and ask how things work
18:28:27  <alex_> okay
18:29:05  <Chris_Booth> but our comunity generaly requires some prior knowledge, of atleast how priors and networks
18:29:21  <tulcod> xD
18:29:29  <alex_> ok
18:29:52  <alex_> unfortunately that seems to be the only parts im confused on
18:30:43  <tulcod> wait, the "only parts" you're confused on are priorities and networks?
18:31:00  <alex_> well everything else i have a solid understanding on
18:31:03  <Chris_Booth> well information on prior can be found both in our wiki and the openttd wiki
18:31:22  <Chris_Booth> priors are just a way to stop trains blocking a busy line
18:32:34  <tulcod> alex_: it's basically the most important part of openttd, if i may be fair
18:32:59  <alex_> yeah
18:33:10  <tulcod> i mean, not trying to discourage you or anything
18:33:24  <tulcod> but the entire point of post-basics openttd is priorities and networks
18:33:28  <alex_> yeah i understand
18:34:06  <alex_> and i a little confused on the mainline sideline aspect because all i ever do is point to point systems
18:35:13  <tulcod> well it's not like i understand all that's out there, but to name that "the only parts" is a bit devaluing i think
18:35:57  <alex_> well i mean everything else i have a solid grasp on where im still a littile confused about these points
18:36:05  <alex_> well not everything else
18:40:10  <Chris_Booth> alex_: maybe you should look at some of the archived games
18:40:15  <Chris_Booth> !archive
18:40:15  <PublicServer> Chris_Booth: http://www.openttdcoop.ORG/wiki/PublicServer:Archive | |
18:40:43  <Chris_Booth> and also playing on the welcome server may suite you bette alex_  #openttdcoop.stable
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20:11:56  <Kango> !password
20:11:56  <PublicServer> Kango: cuddle
20:12:10  <PublicServer> *** Game still paused (number of players)
20:12:11  <PublicServer> *** Kangoo joined the game
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20:15:17  <Kango> hello there
20:15:28  <TWerkhoven> ola
20:15:59  <ryton> !screen
20:16:00  <ryton> ola
20:16:04  <PublicServer> *** ryton made screenshot at 0001E1C3:
20:16:42  <Kango> anything new on the map today?
20:16:48  <ryton> same q
20:16:54  <ryton> if not, im off for a few hours :p
20:18:17  <Kango> really not sure if there is much more to do
20:20:25  <TWerkhoven> wood drop needs to be expanded
20:20:56  <Kango> I see wood drop is now only one station
20:21:10  <Kango> earlier it was three
20:21:18  <Kango> wont that reduce its capacity?
20:21:33  <PublicServer> <TWerkhoven> o_O
20:21:44  <PublicServer> <TWerkhoven> thought someone just changed the platforms to match
20:22:18  <PublicServer> <Kangoo> so did I, just checked it when I was thinking of ways to expand the station..
20:22:32  <PublicServer> <Kangoo> join comp and I will change it.
20:22:46  <PublicServer> *** TWerkhoven has joined company #1
20:22:46  <PublicServer> *** Game unpaused (number of players)
20:25:02  <PublicServer> <Kangoo> hm. actually it seems two trains can unload on same station at the same time...
20:25:17  <PublicServer> <TWerkhoven> what do you mean?
20:25:44  <PublicServer> <Kangoo> what is the advantage of using all three wood drop stations instead of one?
20:26:20  <PublicServer> <TWerkhoven> because one drop can only deliver to one industrie
20:26:40  <PublicServer> <TWerkhoven>  a single drop station does not spread its cargo among different papermills
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20:26:54  <PublicServer> <Kangoo> ah - ofc.
20:26:57  <PublicServer> <TWerkhoven> and we need all the papermills to be serviced
20:27:55  <PublicServer> <Kangoo> but wood drop still needs expansion?
20:28:07  <PublicServer> ***  made screenshot at 00001944:
20:28:28  <TWerkhoven> yes
20:28:43  <TWerkhoven> plan is a 4th entry line, and corresponding extra platforms
20:34:22  <PublicServer> <Kangoo> not easy to keep room for both paper pickup overflows..
20:34:52  <PublicServer> <TWerkhoven> actually we discussed moving paper pickup to north of tunville
20:35:06  <PublicServer> <TWerkhoven> and making it have only 2 exit lines (seeing as it only has 2 entries)
20:35:17  <PublicServer> <TWerkhoven> which would shrink the merger on the other side
20:36:03  <PublicServer> <Kangoo> valid point
20:36:53  <PublicServer> <Kangoo> paper factory 1 is in the way now..
20:38:15  <PublicServer> <TWerkhoven> what if you start a new paper pickup north of tunville, then you can tunnel underneath the papermill there
20:38:30  <PublicServer> <TWerkhoven> the trick then would be to get the track to the other side of tunville
20:38:57  <PublicServer> <Kangoo> 5 secs. got to watch press conference on tv
20:39:08  <PublicServer> <Kangoo> prob more like 5 mins..
20:39:46  <PublicServer> <TWerkhoven> actually i think we can just reduce the exit lines and re-do the merger
20:39:57  <PublicServer> <TWerkhoven> and see how much space we end up with for the new wood drop
20:40:23  <PublicServer> <TWerkhoven> hmm
20:40:29  <PublicServer> <TWerkhoven> *lightbulb*
20:43:07  <PublicServer> ***  made screenshot at 00002D3C:
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20:47:52  <PublicServer> <TWerkhoven> think that would work for the 4th line?
20:48:04  <Chris_Booth> hi
20:48:16  <PublicServer> <TWerkhoven> ello
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20:51:07  <PublicServer> <Chris Booth> just a quick question
20:51:19  <PublicServer> <Chris Booth> why not expand the station in the way it has been built?
20:52:09  <PublicServer> <Chris Booth> just make it the same but with 4 platforms per set
20:52:19  <PublicServer> <Chris Booth> with 4 entrance lines
20:52:47  <PublicServer> <TWerkhoven> i suppose theres room enough for that now
20:54:32  <PublicServer> <TWerkhoven> we'd need to push the station north as well though, to make room for the extra bridges
20:54:57  <PublicServer> <Kangoo> guess bridges and tunnels also have to be moved back a bit, if station is made wider,
20:55:07  <PublicServer> <Kangoo> ah. nvm.
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20:56:34  *** ChanServ sets mode: +o mfb-
20:56:46  <mfb-> hi
20:56:51  <PublicServer> <Chris Booth> hi mfb
20:56:55  <PublicServer> <TWerkhoven> ello
20:57:15  <PublicServer> *** mfb joined the game
20:57:29  <PublicServer> <TWerkhoven> new drop too?
20:58:08  <PublicServer> ***  made screenshot at 00003941:
21:03:19  <PublicServer> <mfb> uh... large X-regions with pbs
21:04:00  <PublicServer> <TWerkhoven> V is gonna love it ;)
21:04:06  <PublicServer> <Kangoo> ^^,
21:04:33  <PublicServer> <mfb> I think the shorter upper part is better than the other two
21:04:47  <PublicServer> <mfb> trains do not need all 4 options
21:04:57  <PublicServer> <mfb> that just reduces flow
21:06:48  <PublicServer> <TWerkhoven> fair point
21:07:00  <PublicServer> <TWerkhoven> i suppose every track will be near-saturated with wood trains anyway
21:07:55  <PublicServer> <TWerkhoven> but lets remove em on the station side
21:08:20  <PublicServer> <Kangoo> lol - thats what I was thinking. but thought you did the opposite :l
21:08:30  <PublicServer> <TWerkhoven> did, then twigged
21:08:52  <PublicServer> <TWerkhoven> sorry
21:09:13  <PublicServer> <Kangoo> :D
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21:13:08  <PublicServer> ***  made screenshot at 00004A3E:
21:13:37  <Sigma> !password
21:13:37  <PublicServer> Sigma: tucked
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21:14:24  <PublicServer> *** Sigma joined the game
21:14:49  <Maraxus> !password
21:14:49  <PublicServer> Maraxus: tucked
21:15:04  <PublicServer> *** Maraxus joined the game
21:15:28  <PublicServer> <Ryton> geve
21:15:28  <PublicServer> *** Ryton joined the game
21:15:32  <PublicServer> <mfb> hi
21:15:34  <PublicServer> <Kangoo> howdy
21:15:44  <PublicServer> <Ryton> busy paper pickup/wood drop area
21:16:05  <PublicServer> <TWerkhoven> yup
21:16:07  <PublicServer> <Ryton> and the overflow is gone?
21:16:11  <PublicServer> <Ryton> for the pickup?
21:16:32  <PublicServer> <mfb> one left
21:17:02  <PublicServer> <Kangoo> 1300 tonnes of paper says it wasnt needed  ;)
21:17:08  <PublicServer> <Ryton> any changes on the entry side?
21:17:26  <PublicServer> <mfb> 4th line
21:17:32  <PublicServer> <mfb> and I reduced the signal gaps
21:17:34  <PublicServer> <Ryton> paper exit is almost blocking the pickup :p
21:17:48  <PublicServer> <TWerkhoven> should probably redo the merger as well now, as theres 2 paper and 4 wood instead of 3 each
21:18:12  <PublicServer> <Ryton> 2 +4 => 4
21:18:18  <PublicServer> <Ryton> tricky merge :-)
21:18:22  <PublicServer> <TWerkhoven> gotta love math
21:26:49  <PublicServer> <Kangoo> Situation in noray sure is crazy today... :(
21:26:57  <PublicServer> <Kangoo> *Norway
21:26:59  <PublicServer> <Ryton> whats the difference for the paper pickup, after theis works?
21:27:03  <PublicServer> <mfb> what happened?
21:27:11  <PublicServer> <mfb> no blocking trains
21:27:15  <PublicServer> <mfb> overflow
21:27:24  <PublicServer> <mfb> and shorter signal gaps
21:27:31  <PublicServer> <mfb> and more waiting bays
21:27:38  <PublicServer> <Ryton> ah oke
21:27:41  <PublicServer> <Ryton> makes sense :))à
21:27:49  <PublicServer> <Ryton> overflow I understood
21:27:51  <PublicServer> <Kangoo> Bomb in city centra, and then a shooting on a labor party youth camp. at least 20 killed.
21:27:55  <PublicServer> <Ryton> but not the waiting bays
21:28:00  <PublicServer> <mfb> ah
21:28:09  <PublicServer> ***  made screenshot at 00006542:
21:28:35  <PublicServer> <mfb> hmm
21:28:43  <PublicServer> <mfb> too few trains to demonstrate it
21:28:53  <PublicServer> <Ryton> just stop one?
21:28:55  <PublicServer> <Kangoo> just stop one ;)'
21:28:59  <PublicServer> <Ryton> and wait till a lioe forms?
21:29:01  <PublicServer> <Kangoo> bah. to late.
21:29:35  <PublicServer> <mfb> dont stop it please
21:30:01  <PublicServer> <Ryton> seems to hold well
21:30:07  <PublicServer> <Ryton> good one :-)
21:30:09  <PublicServer> <mfb> that is how it works
21:30:21  <PublicServer> <Ryton> got to remember that
21:30:40  <PublicServer> <Ryton> just 1 of the waiting bays double exit signal
21:30:52  <PublicServer> <Ryton> and another one in front of it, with lower priority
21:30:59  <PublicServer> <Ryton> with the depot
21:31:38  <PublicServer> <Ryton> its even more robust than the 'simple invisible overflow'
21:32:04  <PublicServer> <Ryton> that one causes main line stops, this one doesnt
21:32:21  <PublicServer> <mfb> bad thing is that the depot is visible
21:32:27  <PublicServer> <Ryton> ah, true
21:32:41  <PublicServer> <mfb> but new muningwill does not like me any more
21:32:43  <PublicServer> <Ryton> can you make an invisible depot withouth reverser then?
21:32:47  <PublicServer> <mfb> and the bank is bad
21:33:41  <PublicServer> <mfb> oh
21:33:48  <PublicServer> <mfb> found a mistake
21:34:46  <PublicServer> <Kangoo> trains seem to prefer left station entrance...
21:34:52  <PublicServer> <mfb> ok, invisible depot should be possible
21:35:00  <PublicServer> <mfb> now they don't :D
21:35:11  <PublicServer> <Kangoo> heh. quick fix
21:35:13  <PublicServer> <mfb> well, does not matter
21:35:17  <PublicServer> <mfb> they just load
21:35:48  <PublicServer> <Ryton> what do you mean?
21:36:06  <PublicServer> <mfb> it does not matter how many trains are on which side
21:36:20  <PublicServer> <mfb> as long as they can handle all paper
21:36:26  <PublicServer> <mfb> or all incoming trains can load
21:36:28  <PublicServer> <Ryton> ah, then 1 invisible depot -is enough
21:36:34  <PublicServer> <mfb> no
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21:36:40  <PublicServer> <Ryton> if one half can take all trafic from 2 lines
21:36:49  <PublicServer> <Ryton> temporary
21:37:03  <PublicServer> <Ryton> long enough to withstand the wave dissolving
21:37:15  <PublicServer> <Ryton> ah, thats neat
21:37:21  <PublicServer> <Ryton> gnight all
21:37:27  <PublicServer> <Kangoo> gnight
21:37:29  <PublicServer> <mfb> good night
21:37:39  <PublicServer> *** Ryton has left the game (connection lost)
21:38:15  <PublicServer> <Kangoo> Im off as well. maybe next time i log in theres a clean sheet to attakc!?
21:38:27  <PublicServer> <mfb> maybe
21:38:33  <PublicServer> <Chris Booth> I am still breaking SLH 01
21:40:11  <PublicServer> <mfb> hmm
21:40:14  <PublicServer> <mfb> it does not
21:40:38  <PublicServer> <mfb> ok, better
21:40:53  <PublicServer> <Chris Booth> yeah I know its extra WIP
21:41:18  <PublicServer> <Chris Booth> the inner line has no link to the paper pickup
21:41:22  <PublicServer> <Kangoo> connected to all 4 mls?
21:41:40  <PublicServer> <Chris Booth> no
21:42:00  <PublicServer> <Chris Booth> the line marked ML has a bad link to the paper pickup
21:42:58  <PublicServer> <mfb> single bridge/tunnel is fine
21:43:09  <PublicServer> ***  made screenshot at 00006265:
21:43:11  <PublicServer> <mfb> the 4 bridges are really a lot ;)
21:43:13  <PublicServer> <Chris Booth> I would say so
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21:44:45  <PublicServer> <mfb> good luck at SLH09 with the 4th line ;)
21:44:55  <PublicServer> <mfb> maybe just begin it there
21:45:15  <PublicServer> *** Kangoo has left the game (leaving)
21:49:24  <PublicServer> <mfb> hell is very popular
21:49:28  <PublicServer> <mfb> trains are waiting in lines to get there
21:50:02  <PublicServer> <Chris Booth> might be all the lines I am digging up
21:50:07  <PublicServer> <mfb> it is
21:50:11  <Sigma> lol
21:52:10  <PublicServer> <mfb> jam is going from SLH09 exit over sunninghead woods back to SLH09 entry
21:52:32  <PublicServer> <Chris Booth> lol
21:53:28  <PublicServer> <Chris Booth> any idea onlinking !here to !to here?
21:53:54  <PublicServer> <mfb> :D
21:54:06  <PublicServer> <mfb> maybe
21:54:08  <PublicServer> <Chris Booth> or just give it to SLH 09?
21:54:30  <PublicServer> <mfb> le me try
21:54:32  <PublicServer> <mfb> +t
21:55:12  <PublicServer> <mfb> hmm
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21:56:20  <PublicServer> <mfb> like that?
21:56:37  <PublicServer> <Chris Booth> nicw
21:57:29  <PublicServer> <Chris Booth> ok 4 MLs in SLH 01
21:57:33  <PublicServer> <Chris Booth> that is epic
21:57:51  <PublicServer> <Chris Booth> going to give my self a pat on the back
21:58:09  <PublicServer> ***  made screenshot at 00005A39:
21:59:20  <PublicServer> <mfb> :D
21:59:34  <PublicServer> <Chris Booth> I am sorry but I just don't vare
22:00:21  <PublicServer> <mfb> looks nice
22:00:37  <PublicServer> <Chris Booth> SLH 09 gets its own ML line
22:00:55  <PublicServer> <mfb> then it should get full speed
22:05:56  *** DayDreamer has quit IRC
22:06:59  <PublicServer> <Maraxus> seems like brufinghill city woods could use an overflow
22:07:25  <PublicServer> <Chris Booth> no its fine
22:07:45  <PublicServer> <mfb> it is not
22:08:05  <PublicServer> <Chris Booth> not every station needs an overflow
22:08:17  <PublicServer> <mfb> this one has no waiting bays
22:08:52  <PublicServer> <mfb> just pointless injection depots
22:09:13  <PublicServer> *** Sigma has left the game (leaving)
22:09:46  <PublicServer> <Chris Booth> lol
22:09:54  <PublicServer> <mfb> ...
22:10:05  <PublicServer> <Chris Booth> didn't like the 2x45
22:10:35  <PublicServer> <Chris Booth> BBH 01 is now busy
22:10:50  <PublicServer> <Chris Booth> since we fixed all the paper trains that where slow
22:11:24  <PublicServer> <mfb> hmm
22:11:24  <PublicServer> <Chris Booth> another section of LLL_RRR needed there?
22:11:34  <PublicServer> <Chris Booth> or just a wave of paper trains?
22:11:40  <PublicServer> <mfb> let's see
22:12:13  <PublicServer> <mfb> planned a possible 3rd line
22:12:20  <PublicServer> <mfb> so it should be easy to expand that
22:12:39  <PublicServer> <Maraxus> take a look at waiting cargo at trudstone bay
22:13:10  <PublicServer> ***  made screenshot at 00014897:
22:13:16  <PublicServer> <Chris Booth> I read that as Turdstone
22:13:31  <PublicServer> <Maraxus> :)
22:14:11  <PublicServer> <mfb> fix in progress
22:14:19  <PublicServer> <Chris Booth> FIP!
22:15:44  <PublicServer> <mfb> highest income of all trains :D
22:17:59  *** perk11 has quit IRC
22:19:47  <PublicServer> <Chris Booth> I hate it when you find a blocking signal in your own work
22:19:53  <PublicServer> <mfb> :p
22:20:03  <PublicServer> <Chris Booth> you think thats a great bit of work
22:20:13  <PublicServer> <Chris Booth> oh not its shit I made some bad signals
22:20:23  <PublicServer> <mfb> where?
22:20:39  <PublicServer> <Chris Booth> put and exit on both lines
22:21:02  <PublicServer> <Chris Booth> must have been click happy
22:25:13  <PublicServer> <Chris Booth> next place to expand FPP 01
22:26:42  <PublicServer> <Chris Booth> BBH 03 is going to get messy to expand
22:28:11  <PublicServer> ***  made screenshot at 00003E43:
22:29:13  <PublicServer> <mfb> why 03?
22:29:33  <PublicServer> <Chris Booth> just getting busy on the east bound lines
22:29:42  <PublicServer> <Chris Booth> @ !here
22:30:12  <PublicServer> <Chris Booth> some priors could clear it up probably
22:30:22  <PublicServer> <Chris Booth> but I like the priorless hub idea
22:30:54  <PublicServer> <mfb> well, bad accelerations and no prios do not mix very good
22:31:12  <PublicServer> <Chris Booth> no they do not mix that well
22:31:30  <PublicServer> <mfb> and I think BBH04 is more problematic
22:31:32  <PublicServer> <Chris Booth> its doing better than I expected
22:31:42  <PublicServer> <mfb> SLH03->BBH04 should get a 3rd line
22:32:06  <PublicServer> <Chris Booth> BBH 04 is on a big hill
22:32:47  <PublicServer> <mfb> so what?
22:32:57  <PublicServer> <Chris Booth> these trains hate hills
22:33:11  <PublicServer> <Chris Booth> it kills what ever acceleration that actualy have
22:33:17  <PublicServer> <mfb> only one way where they have to climb it
22:33:33  <PublicServer> <mfb> and just 4 levels there
22:34:20  <PublicServer> <mfb> climb of great suffering is a "big hill" ;)
22:36:06  <PublicServer> <Chris Booth> wow SLH 01 and 09 have no queues
22:36:18  <PublicServer> <mfb> :)
22:36:24  <PublicServer> <Chris Booth> that is kinda wrong
22:36:54  <PublicServer> <mfb> :p
22:37:06  <PublicServer> <Chris Booth> trying to fix the same thing
22:37:44  <PublicServer> <mfb> CL
22:38:18  <PublicServer> <mfb> that is a really large prio now
22:38:32  <PublicServer> <Chris Booth> 12 tiles
22:38:38  <PublicServer> <mfb> ~15
22:38:44  <PublicServer> <mfb> including the tunnel
22:38:50  <PublicServer> <Chris Booth> lol yes
22:38:56  <PublicServer> <Chris Booth> forgot the tunnel
22:39:02  <PublicServer> <Chris Booth> better than no prior
22:39:11  <PublicServer> <mfb> that is not "no prio"
22:39:35  <PublicServer> <mfb> and it is even worse
22:39:42  <PublicServer> <mfb> trains take the tunnel if the ML jams
22:39:48  <PublicServer> <Chris Booth> yes
22:39:50  <PublicServer> <mfb> no it does not need a jam
22:39:54  <PublicServer> <mfb> just a regular train
22:40:18  <PublicServer> <Chris Booth> thats the issue with 2 ways
22:41:00  <PublicServer> <TWerkhoven> gnite
22:41:04  <PublicServer> <Chris Booth> nn TWerkhoven
22:41:06  <PublicServer> <mfb> good night
22:41:12  <PublicServer> *** TWerkhoven has left the game (leaving)
22:41:16  *** TWerkhoven has quit IRC
22:41:23  <PublicServer> <Chris Booth> forgot he was even here XD
22:41:34  <PublicServer> <mfb> just thinking: does !no gap? work every time?
22:41:58  <PublicServer> <Chris Booth> no
22:42:04  <PublicServer> <mfb> why?
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22:42:16  <PublicServer> <Chris Booth> no it will
22:42:18  <PublicServer> <mfb> that can give problems
22:42:24  <PublicServer> <mfb> train from the upper line splits
22:42:26  <PublicServer> <Chris Booth> not a bad a sync
22:42:32  <PublicServer> <mfb> train from the lower line got signal gap of 2
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22:42:40  <PublicServer> <mfb> sync is not the problem
22:42:50  <PublicServer> <mfb> ~0.1 tiles and only used in case of an "emergency"
22:42:57  <PublicServer> <Chris Booth> yes
22:43:08  <PublicServer> <Chris Booth> its more the buffering of these slow trains
22:43:11  <PublicServer> ***  made screenshot at 000008EB:
22:43:21  <PublicServer> <mfb> I don't see a problem here
22:43:36  <PublicServer> <mfb> it should not
22:43:46  <PublicServer> <Chris Booth> shouldn't but could
22:44:00  <PublicServer> <mfb> and you get the same problem at every double tunnel/bridge
22:44:08  <PublicServer> <Chris Booth> yes
22:44:14  <PublicServer> <mfb> (if you don't need one, you can just split the line anyway)
22:44:50  <PublicServer> <mfb> :p
22:45:04  <PublicServer> <mfb> that is only possible with enough space
22:45:32  <PublicServer> <Chris Booth> only take up a few more tiles
22:45:49  <PublicServer> <mfb> try to find them !here
22:46:11  <PublicServer> <Chris Booth> lol
22:46:15  <PublicServer> <Chris Booth> impossible
22:46:17  <PublicServer> <mfb> :p
22:46:20  <PublicServer> <mfb> that is my point
22:46:40  <PublicServer> <Chris Booth> but that is worse as teh tunnel gives a gap of 4
22:46:50  <PublicServer> <Chris Booth> you have 2 paper trains and you are snookered
22:46:56  <PublicServer> <mfb> well ok
22:47:00  <PublicServer> <mfb> that is another thing
22:47:17  <PublicServer> <mfb> good
22:47:32  <PublicServer> <Chris Booth> now your idea would work well there
22:47:43  <PublicServer> <mfb> and yours, too
22:47:46  <PublicServer> <mfb> let's see
22:49:40  <PublicServer> <mfb> :D
22:50:40  <PublicServer> <Chris Booth> lets hope we never need a 5th line in that valley
22:51:17  <PublicServer> <mfb> :p
22:52:18  <PublicServer> <Chris Booth> well noobs can now add more trians to that area
22:52:32  <PublicServer> <mfb> signal missing
22:52:42  <PublicServer> <mfb> well does not matter
22:52:46  <PublicServer> <Chris Booth> not realy
22:52:54  <PublicServer> <Chris Booth> you thinking about the sync
22:52:54  <PublicServer> <mfb> hmm CL
22:53:03  <PublicServer> <mfb> that
22:53:16  <PublicServer> <mfb> CL
22:53:28  <PublicServer> <Chris Booth> the tunnel needs to be 1 tile left
22:53:40  <PublicServer> <mfb> does not help
22:54:06  <PublicServer> <mfb> still CL2
22:54:23  <PublicServer> <mfb> works
22:54:41  <PublicServer> <mfb> already done
22:55:12  <PublicServer> <Chris Booth> I was thinking that for about 10 mins
22:55:22  <PublicServer> <Chris Booth> but I liked my signs
22:55:30  <PublicServer> <mfb> well desync is gone
22:55:36  <PublicServer> <Chris Booth> and sync isn't a huge issue with slow trains with big gaps
22:56:52  <PublicServer> <Chris Booth> only wanted it kinda a prior extension
22:56:54  <PublicServer> <Chris Booth> on the bridge
22:56:56  <PublicServer> <mfb> k
22:57:10  <PublicServer> <Chris Booth> would be to long otherwise
22:57:30  <PublicServer> *** Maraxus has left the game (leaving)
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22:58:08  <PublicServer> <Chris Booth> if anyone has any bad comments about that junction I am going to hunt them down and kill them
22:58:11  <PublicServer> ***  made screenshot at 00006143:
22:58:16  <PublicServer> <mfb> :D
22:59:31  <PublicServer> <mfb> fine
22:59:34  <PublicServer> <mfb> good night
22:59:59  <PublicServer> <Chris Booth> shit
23:00:35  <PublicServer> <mfb> :)
23:00:58  <PublicServer> <Chris Booth> not a fan of the maglev GRF but it will do its job there
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23:01:32  <PublicServer> <mfb> BBH01 is fine again
23:01:34  <PublicServer> *** mfb has left the game (leaving)
23:01:34  <PublicServer> *** Game paused (number of players)
23:01:47  <PublicServer> <Chris Booth> bye bye mfb
23:01:48  *** mfb- has quit IRC
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23:13:12  <PublicServer> ***  made screenshot at 00005A34:
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