Config
Log for #openttdcoop on 30th October 2011:
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00:08:37  *** Godde has joined #openttdcoop
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01:05:56  <KyleS> !download win64
01:05:56  <PublicServer> KyleS: http://binaries.openttd.org/nightlies/trunk/r23044/openttd-trunk-r23044-windows-win64.zip
01:07:26  <KyleS> !grf
01:07:26  <PublicServer> KyleS: http://www.openttdcoop.org/wiki/GRF (Version 8.0)
01:11:43  <KyleS> !ip
01:11:43  <PublicServer> KyleS: ps.openttdcoop.org
01:12:08  <KyleS> !password
01:12:09  <PublicServer> KyleS: joyous
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05:51:21  <Ryton> !password
05:51:21  <PublicServer> Ryton: joyous
05:51:51  <Ryton> planning stage... :-)
05:51:53  <Ryton> !archive
05:51:53  <PublicServer> Ryton: http://www.openttdcoop.ORG/wiki/PublicServer:Archive | http://www.openttdcoop.org/wiki/ProZone:Archive | http://www.openttdcoop.org/wiki/MemberZone:Archive
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06:38:35  <aldor> !password
06:38:35  <PublicServer> aldor: joyous
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07:55:31  <V453000> !password
07:55:31  <PublicServer> V453000: snipes
07:55:40  <PublicServer> *** Game still paused (number of players)
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08:05:55  <V453000> !unpause
08:05:55  <PublicServer> *** V453000 has unpaused the server. (Use !auto to set it back.)
08:05:57  <PublicServer> *** Game unpaused (number of players)
08:11:02  <PublicServer> ***  made screenshot at 0002E241: http://ps.openttdcoop.org/publicserver/webcam/0002E241.png
08:26:02  <PublicServer> ***  made screenshot at 0002D83C: http://ps.openttdcoop.org/publicserver/webcam/0002D83C.png
08:32:24  <V453000> !auto
08:32:24  <PublicServer> *** V453000 has enabled autopause mode.
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08:41:02  <PublicServer> ***  made screenshot at 0002F040: http://ps.openttdcoop.org/publicserver/webcam/0002F040.png
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09:16:07  <Dilandau> hello
09:16:09  <Dilandau> !password
09:16:09  <PublicServer> Dilandau: snipes
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09:25:18  <Vinnie_nl> !password
09:25:18  <PublicServer> Vinnie_nl: snipes
09:25:28  <PublicServer> *** Game still paused (number of players)
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09:25:30  <PublicServer> <Vinnie> hello
09:25:30  <PublicServer> *** Vinnie joined the game
09:25:34  <PublicServer> <Dilandau> hi ^^
09:29:21  <Mazur> Planing.
09:29:24  <Mazur> Good.
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09:43:31  <Mazur> !password
09:43:31  <PublicServer> Mazur: revamp
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09:43:51  <PublicServer> <Mazur> Ooer, watery.
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09:53:14  <Vinnie_nl> to mutch water?
10:04:35  <Mazur> Much, I no not know about too much, there is no "try", only "do".
10:25:23  <Tray> !password
10:25:23  <PublicServer> Tray: lagoon
10:25:44  <Tray> !password
10:25:44  <PublicServer> Tray: hagged
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10:52:41  <Maraxus> !password
10:52:41  <PublicServer> Maraxus: ribbed
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10:55:20  <Mazur> for your pleasure?
10:57:04  <Vinnie_nl> !password
10:57:04  <PublicServer> Vinnie_nl: loathe
10:57:18  <PublicServer> *** Vinnie joined the game
10:57:33  <PublicServer> <Vinnie> hello
10:57:40  <PublicServer> <Maraxus> hi
10:58:04  <Mazur> lo
10:58:12  <PublicServer> *** Dilandau has left the game (leaving)
10:58:17  <Dilandau> hi
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11:14:11  <PublicServer> <Tray> I fucked up the signals at my plan ):
11:15:25  <PublicServer> *** Mazur joined the game
11:16:02  <PublicServer> <Mazur> Oh, yeah, those are fucked up and down the mountains.
11:17:46  <PublicServer> <Mazur> So the Goods DROP is the final destination of trains, then?  THey haul one load and then are sold again?
11:18:13  <PublicServer> <Mazur> Oh, perhaps you mean they leave on the sides?
11:18:19  <PublicServer> <Vinnie> East and west are exits from goodsdrop
11:18:34  <PublicServer> <Mazur> Yes, I realised, belatedly.
11:18:48  <PublicServer> <Mazur> Didn't see the track going those ways.
11:20:07  <PublicServer> <Mazur> Vin: You only mention one engine, yet talk about electric and non-electric parts of track.
11:20:33  <PublicServer> <Vinnie> yes the electric part will be LL_RR and nonelectric part L_R
11:20:39  <PublicServer> <Vinnie> but both are electrified
11:20:45  <PublicServer> <Mazur> Oh, the parts in the plan.
11:20:48  <PublicServer> <Vinnie> yes
11:21:07  <PublicServer> <Mazur> I thought we wre gling to build electric and non-electric parts.
11:21:10  <PublicServer> <Vinnie> nope
11:21:55  <PublicServer> <Mazur> shall I adjust the signs to make that clearer?
11:22:04  <PublicServer> <Vinnie> you may
11:23:04  <PublicServer> <Vinnie> maybe make it monorail later
11:23:14  <PublicServer> <Mazur> [A la Tommy Cooper:] Just like that.
11:26:04  <PublicServer> ***  made screenshot at 00039872: http://ps.openttdcoop.org/publicserver/webcam/00039872.png
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11:49:28  <LoPo> !password
11:49:28  <PublicServer> LoPo: manged
11:50:23  <PublicServer> <LoPo> hi
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11:51:49  <PublicServer> <Vinnie> hey
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11:56:04  <PublicServer> ***  made screenshot at 0000CBCB: http://ps.openttdcoop.org/publicserver/webcam/0000CBCB.png
12:01:34  <PublicServer> *** LoPo has left the game (leaving)
12:03:53  <LoPo> !password
12:03:53  <PublicServer> LoPo: wither
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12:11:05  <PublicServer> ***  made screenshot at 0000B40B: http://ps.openttdcoop.org/publicserver/webcam/0000B40B.png
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12:26:06  <PublicServer> ***  made screenshot at 0003B4D2: http://ps.openttdcoop.org/publicserver/webcam/0003B4D2.png
12:36:11  <LoPo> !password
12:36:11  <PublicServer> LoPo: truing
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12:41:06  <PublicServer> ***  made screenshot at 0003B4D3: http://ps.openttdcoop.org/publicserver/webcam/0003B4D3.png
12:41:12  <LoPo> see ya later
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13:42:32  <V453000> !password
13:42:32  <PublicServer> V453000: skimps
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13:43:00  <PublicServer> <V453000> hi
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14:02:26  <V453000> !password
14:02:26  <PublicServer> V453000: youths
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14:14:38  <Zyl> Hello
14:14:42  <Zyl> !password
14:14:42  <PublicServer> Zyl: subdue
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14:40:26  <mfb-> hi
14:48:07  <Vinnie_nl> !screen
14:48:07  <PublicServer> *** Vinnie_nl liked to make screenshot of last action, but nobody was working since. (http://ps.openttdcoop.org/publicserver/webcam/0002DE43.png)
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15:02:57  <LoPo> hello
15:03:02  <LoPo> see ya later
15:03:04  <LoPo> oosp
15:03:07  <LoPo> !password
15:03:07  <PublicServer> LoPo: aisles
15:03:15  <V453000> hi
15:03:51  <PublicServer> *** LoPo joined the game
15:04:51  <V453000> LoPo: you might be interested in the pro zone maybe :P
15:05:03  <LoPo> :O
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16:10:02  <V453000> !password
16:10:03  <PublicServer> V453000: swirls
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16:10:45  <PublicServer> <V453000> voting?
16:11:52  <PublicServer> <mfb> should be fine
16:12:32  <PublicServer> *** mfb has joined company #1
16:13:18  <PublicServer> <mfb> ------- lines?
16:13:22  <PublicServer> <V453000> meh no need
16:14:22  <PublicServer> <Tray> What's about the plan attempt of nicefercoop?
16:14:41  <PublicServer> <mfb> the one with continents?
16:14:43  <PublicServer> <V453000> is that a plan?
16:14:53  <PublicServer> <Tray> Don't know.
16:14:55  <PublicServer> <mfb> does not look like a playable plan
16:15:07  <PublicServer> <V453000> it is not even signed
16:15:30  <PublicServer> *** TWerkhoven joined the game
16:15:35  <PublicServer> <Tray> he build it yesterday, I'm not sure wether he likes to compßlete it
16:15:47  <PublicServer> <mfb> he can do so if he wants to
16:15:47  <PublicServer> <V453000> he can add it to the board eventually
16:18:55  <Tray> How much do you completed of NUTS? It looks really interesting.
16:19:11  <Maraxus> !password
16:19:11  <PublicServer> Maraxus: jested
16:19:13  <V453000> I think about 40% of sprites is done
16:19:24  <PublicServer> *** Maraxus joined the game
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16:19:38  <Tray> Is drawing sprites the problem or balancing stuff?
16:19:53  <V453000> what balancing? :)
16:19:57  <V453000> drawing takes a huge amount of time
16:21:10  <V453000> come try it, it is easy :)
16:24:31  <Tray> Any HowTo?
16:25:27  <V453000> join #nuts channel
16:26:12  <PublicServer> ***  made screenshot at 0002DA3A: http://ps.openttdcoop.org/publicserver/webcam/0002DA3A.png
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16:42:15  <mfb-> @stage Voting
16:42:15  *** Webster changes topic to "Welcome to #openttdcoop, the Cooperative OpenTTD | PSG219 (r23044) | STAGE: Voting | www.openttdcoop.org | New players, use @quickstart and !help | http://wiki.openttdcoop.org/IRC_Commands"
16:45:21  <V453000> ah thanks
16:45:55  <Mazur> Pho Ting, we meet again.
16:53:54  <Dilandau> !password
16:53:54  <PublicServer> Dilandau: eulogy
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16:59:31  <PublicServer> <LoPo> wow voting already :P
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17:28:25  <PublicServer> <mfb> go, vote :p
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17:30:48  <Sylf> !password
17:30:48  <PublicServer> Sylf: gifted
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17:39:03  <Vinnie_nl> !screen
17:39:03  <PublicServer> *** Vinnie_nl made screenshot at 00015F21: http://ps.openttdcoop.org/publicserver/webcam/00015F21.png
17:39:28  <Mazur> Keen, aren't you?
17:39:33  <Mazur> :-D
17:41:14  <PublicServer> ***  made screenshot at 0000206F: http://ps.openttdcoop.org/publicserver/webcam/0000206F.png
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17:47:06  <KyleS> !download win32
17:47:08  <PublicServer> KyleS: http://binaries.openttd.org/nightlies/trunk/r23044/openttd-trunk-r23044-windows-win32.zip
17:49:52  <PublicServer> *** mfb has joined spectators
17:50:20  <KyleS> !password
17:50:20  <PublicServer> KyleS: driest
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17:55:38  <Vinnie_nl> !password
17:55:38  <PublicServer> Vinnie_nl: ratted
17:55:57  <PublicServer> <Vinnie> hello
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17:56:14  <PublicServer> ***  made screenshot at 00015B23: http://ps.openttdcoop.org/publicserver/webcam/00015B23.png
17:56:16  <KyleS> hi
17:56:24  <PublicServer> <V453000> hi hi
17:56:47  <PublicServer> <Vinnie> LL_10_RR wtf
17:57:01  <PublicServer> <V453000> ?
17:57:03  <PublicServer> <Vinnie> lopo plan
17:57:08  <iklucas> !password
17:57:08  <PublicServer> iklucas: ratted
17:57:14  <PublicServer> <V453000> why not
17:57:20  <PublicServer> <iklucas> yuhuu
17:57:20  <PublicServer> *** iklucas joined the game
17:57:22  <PublicServer> <KyleS> btw, what's up with the two buses? O-o
17:57:24  <PublicServer> <Vinnie> is that possible on an island map
17:57:30  <PublicServer> <Vinnie> hey
17:57:33  <PublicServer> <V453000> why wouldnt it be possible
17:57:47  <PublicServer> <V453000> to be honest it is much better than your main station distribution
17:58:01  <mfb-> KyleS: MM
17:59:12  <PublicServer> <V453000> btw why transfers on a water map?
17:59:17  <PublicServer> <V453000> the transfer stations are in general large
17:59:20  <PublicServer> <V453000> *refit
17:59:23  <PublicServer> <V453000> duh :) sorry
17:59:38  <PublicServer> <KyleS> i'm noticing a lot of random water canals
17:59:48  <PublicServer> <V453000> rivers :p
17:59:48  <PublicServer> <KyleS> that seem like they should be removed
17:59:54  <PublicServer> <KyleS> oh O:
17:59:56  <PublicServer> <KyleS> ok
18:00:02  <PublicServer> <Vinnie> refit can be done on smaler scale by seperating drop and pickup
18:00:14  <PublicServer> <KyleS> were they put in automatically or buy some person>?
18:00:21  <PublicServer> <V453000> Vinnie: ?
18:00:31  <PublicServer> <V453000> KyleS: automatically, generator has it now
18:00:34  <PublicServer> <KyleS> nice, i didn't know!
18:00:42  *** KyleS has quit IRC
18:00:46  <PublicServer> <V453000> it is even written on the blog :P
18:00:58  <PublicServer> <KyleS> ya, haven't played openttd for a long time o.o
18:01:13  <PublicServer> <V453000> that is still quite large for a main station I think :)
18:01:39  <PublicServer> <Vinnie> no blancing needed between the stations
18:01:45  <PublicServer> <Vinnie> balancing
18:01:55  <PublicServer> <V453000> that is kind of obvious
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18:02:26  <PublicServer> <V453000> but I think you have some major issues in the ML composition, particularly when I consider the refits
18:02:46  <PublicServer> <V453000> the line northbound of factory is going to be like LL_RRRR soon
18:02:53  <PublicServer> <V453000> or ... you get the point, the R is going to be much more used
18:03:13  <PublicServer> <V453000> while the other direction is going to be much emptier
18:03:31  <PublicServer> <V453000> which imo sucks, it is better to have traffic spread I think
18:03:41  <PublicServer> <Vinnie> yes but that can only be counterd by either making a loop or one way ring
18:03:47  <PublicServer> <V453000> ¨same for sawmill
18:03:57  <PublicServer> <V453000> not really
18:04:53  <PublicServer> <V453000> I just think it does not fit well together .. all I can say really
18:05:03  <PublicServer> <V453000> and then the primary ML in the east
18:06:01  <PublicServer> <Vinnie> well we will see
18:06:03  <PublicServer> <Vinnie> it is a tie
18:06:18  <PublicServer> <V453000> that is not an argument
18:06:33  <PublicServer> <V453000> I expected some explanation, but meh..
18:06:51  <PublicServer> <Vinnie> explanation about east ML?
18:07:25  <PublicServer> <V453000> probably
18:08:35  <PublicServer> <Vinnie> easy ML is on the most land so that is why more drops are there, no point in having drops on the tiny islands
18:08:49  <PublicServer> <V453000> why not?
18:09:35  <PublicServer> <Vinnie> hmm dinner first :(
18:09:41  <PublicServer> <Vinnie> i get back to you oke
18:09:47  <PublicServer> *** Vinnie has joined spectators
18:09:54  <V453000> enjoy
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18:38:57  <Vinnie_nl> The main drop stations are on the larger continents so they are closer to the main SLHs, thus the routes over the island get less traffic. This gives the islands more space to make a tiny SLH and connect industries there. Also the traffic over the island routes is less and so it is less likely to expand in big ML numbers. The main advantages for this design by me are: filled continents with BBH, drops and SLH and the islands are
18:38:58  <Vinnie_nl> fully utilized by a SLH but do not get crowded with ML traffic. Also a network design that is rather random than a loop or cross is like eye-candy for me.
18:39:28  <Vinnie_nl> now that is a winner for webster irc records
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18:40:59  <PublicServer> <V453000> uhm, okay, I understand that logic, but what I do not understand is: You have a ML. You have a low traffic ML. Why not to put more traffic there to have better spread
18:42:41  <PublicServer> <Vinnie> wel the lower traffic ML is only to connect all primaries
18:42:55  <PublicServer> <Vinnie> that are otherwise not beeing reached
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18:43:58  <PublicServer> <Vinnie> i agree that drops are placed wrong expecially the steel one but where to place it then with that previous text in mind
18:45:04  <PublicServer> <V453000> I would start with goods drop
18:45:14  <PublicServer> <V453000> not sure if sawmill trains come through north
18:45:22  <PublicServer> <V453000> because if not, the northern ML is also used badly
18:46:40  <PublicServer> <V453000> well 3-refit as in steel is always a problem unless you do something like psg205
18:47:18  <PublicServer> <V453000> so if you insist on iron ore refit, you cant improve it too much
18:47:40  <PublicServer> <V453000> but with those weak wagons I am unsure if even that is a good way to go
18:48:31  <PublicServer> <Vinnie> interesting
18:49:41  <PublicServer> <V453000> I think it would be possible to improve it with this layout, but you would have to make drastical changes
18:51:04  <Vinnie_nl> as in?
18:52:20  <PublicServer> <V453000> as in multiple town drops, drop stations on all MLs I think
18:52:23  <PublicServer> <V453000> possibly something else
18:52:26  <PublicServer> <V453000> not entirely sure
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18:55:33  <PublicServer> <V453000> the biggest concern are the secondaries I think
18:55:42  <Tray> !password
18:55:43  <PublicServer> Tray: bathed
18:55:45  <PublicServer> <Vinnie> yeah i understand that
18:55:56  <PublicServer> <V453000> which just demolishes the use of refit
18:56:14  <PublicServer> <V453000> not sure if there is any worse way to use refit actually to be entirely honest
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18:56:46  <KillerByte> @quickstart
18:56:47  <Webster> Quickstart - #openttdcoop Wiki - http://wiki.openttdcoop.org/Quickstart
18:56:52  <V453000> hello :)
18:57:10  <KillerByte> hello
18:57:18  <PublicServer> <Vinnie> i can make all drops for all cargo's then transport to the furthest opposite drop
18:57:28  <PublicServer> <V453000> and goods wher
18:57:30  <PublicServer> <V453000> e
18:57:36  <PublicServer> <Vinnie> wach one has a town drop
18:57:40  <PublicServer> <Vinnie> each
18:57:50  <PublicServer> <V453000> thinking
18:57:54  <PublicServer> *** Tray joined the game
18:58:02  <PublicServer> <V453000> not sure if that would solve the situation entirely
18:58:24  <PublicServer> <Vinnie> well the aim is not perfect like 205 but looking good
18:58:43  <PublicServer> <Vinnie> fit in the landscape and still have a nice flow
18:58:49  <PublicServer> <V453000> well if you need to "imitate" 205 while putting it in natively worse environment, then the question is why
18:59:04  <LoPo> ^^
18:59:14  <PublicServer> <V453000> what I meant originally was making something like L(goods-sawmill)_R(goods-refinery)
18:59:16  <PublicServer> <V453000> for example
18:59:34  <PublicServer> <V453000> so you would still have some "unbalance" in the secondaries, but at least somehow fixed
18:59:56  <PublicServer> <V453000> which is imo a more of a fitting change
19:00:03  <PublicServer> <V453000> but it would require at least a second goods drop
19:01:01  <PublicServer> <V453000> I dont want to say like "All wrong" but I just do not see too many things that go well together there
19:01:33  <PublicServer> <V453000> to fit the landscape is a nice thing but the industry placements seems mindless to me, particularly when refit is added
19:02:04  <PublicServer> <V453000> and since steel chain is going to have a huge effect with the small wagons, I dont know
19:02:33  <PublicServer> <V453000> probably just keep it as it is I suppose
19:03:01  <PublicServer> <Vinnie> yeah i would not change it because people voted for it or remove there votes if i would change it
19:03:17  <PublicServer> <V453000> do you care about votes or making a shit plan?
19:03:55  <PublicServer> <Vinnie> i dont think it is shit but if it changes during a voting stage it should be reviewed by the voters for it
19:04:22  <PublicServer> <V453000> it is mindless shit tbh
19:04:52  <PublicServer> <V453000> but I dont think changing a plan to improve is bad
19:04:58  <PublicServer> <V453000> regardless of the voters
19:05:05  <KillerByte> !password
19:05:05  <PublicServer> KillerByte: bathed
19:05:11  <PublicServer> <V453000> the main idea stays: fit land, make refit
19:05:27  <PublicServer> <V453000> but as you want
19:05:37  <PublicServer> <Vinnie> oke but a mayor impact would be according to you. No refit from iron ore
19:05:51  <PublicServer> <V453000> when did I say you need to remove that
19:06:15  <PublicServer> <V453000> I said that under these circumstances as things are here, it only multiplies the problem
19:06:25  <PublicServer> <V453000> it is possible to use it well I thikn
19:06:27  <PublicServer> <Vinnie> well the low wagonlimits don't apply to steel-goods refit
19:06:29  <PublicServer> <V453000> think
19:06:44  <PublicServer> <V453000> even with ore included it should be doable
19:07:14  <PublicServer> <V453000> by just expecting the ore chain to make increased traffic and treat those areas more carefully
19:08:05  <PublicServer> <V453000> you could make something like steel going on L, goods going on R and then you could add for example sawmill goods to the steel so it evens up
19:08:14  <PublicServer> <V453000> or somehow else, multiple options really
19:08:54  <PublicServer> <V453000> because if one of your points was to make small line counts like up to LLL, then using both directions does definitely help
19:09:08  <PublicServer> <V453000> in other words using one direction goes against that idea
19:10:18  <PublicServer> <Vinnie> well yes but if you "kind of" force all steel to always take left you can also make a straight line between the previous pickup to the next drop
19:10:52  <PublicServer> <V453000> ?
19:11:26  <PublicServer> <V453000> you mean that steel uses just one connection always? or?
19:11:36  <PublicServer> <Vinnie> yes
19:11:42  <PublicServer> <V453000> well that is what I am saying
19:12:57  <PublicServer> <Vinnie> lets make a printscreen and change it so i can think it out a little
19:16:54  <PublicServer> <V453000> sure the steel would go that way?
19:17:08  <PublicServer> <mfb> force it to?
19:17:12  <PublicServer> <V453000> well you can force it
19:17:14  <PublicServer> <V453000> yes
19:17:57  <PublicServer> <Vinnie> and according to cargotype go either CCW or CW
19:18:00  <PublicServer> *** mfb has joined company #1
19:19:04  <PublicServer> <Vinnie> that could be done
19:19:44  <KillerByte> !password
19:19:44  <PublicServer> KillerByte: boomed
19:19:47  <PublicServer> <V453000> hm, wont the west be too busy in compare with east/middle half?
19:19:57  <PublicServer> *** Daniel joined the game
19:20:15  <PublicServer> <V453000> not entirely sure about sawmill MSH place, but that is another thing
19:20:33  <PublicServer> <V453000> probably possible
19:21:07  <PublicServer> <V453000> o
19:21:18  <PublicServer> <V453000> now I dont know shit :D
19:21:25  <PublicServer> <Vinnie> good
19:21:27  <PublicServer> <Vinnie> :P
19:21:33  <PublicServer> <Vinnie> let me type it out
19:21:41  <PublicServer> *** mfb has joined spectators
19:22:48  <PublicServer> *** Daniel has left the game (leaving)
19:24:25  <Xotic750> !password
19:24:25  <PublicServer> Xotic750: boomed
19:24:38  <PublicServer> *** Xotic750 joined the game
19:24:41  <PublicServer> <V453000> hi :)
19:24:47  <PublicServer> <Xotic750> hi
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19:25:30  <PublicServer> <V453000> that is obvious vinnie
19:25:35  <PublicServer> <V453000> or well, should be :)
19:25:37  <PublicServer> <Vinnie> yeah most of it is
19:26:20  <PublicServer> ***  made screenshot at 0003868B: http://ps.openttdcoop.org/publicserver/webcam/0003868B.png
19:26:51  <PublicServer> <Vinnie> it will then be something like that
19:27:05  <PublicServer> <V453000> not sure if I understand the bypass part fully
19:27:35  <PublicServer> <Vinnie> since a train will always drop at the next Mainstation in line
19:27:41  <PublicServer> <Vinnie> it will not use the bypass
19:27:51  <PublicServer> <Vinnie> only a returning train will use that bypass
19:27:54  <PublicServer> <V453000> hm true, none of them
19:27:57  <PublicServer> <V453000> yes didnt realize
19:28:03  <PublicServer> <V453000> on the other hand
19:28:14  <PublicServer> <V453000> if the train can return to the msh part he came from
19:28:18  <PublicServer> <V453000> why would he get to the bypass
19:28:49  <PublicServer> <Vinnie> i read you mean terminus style MSH?
19:28:51  <PublicServer> <V453000> at least for the first refit that should apply
19:29:01  <PublicServer> <Vinnie> maindrop
19:29:11  <PublicServer> <V453000> well a double terminus makes sense from that scheme
19:29:21  <PublicServer> <V453000> roro would be just a join before split
19:29:36  <PublicServer> <V453000> or well
19:29:42  <PublicServer> <Vinnie> but th maindrop gets used by both directions
19:29:46  <PublicServer> <V453000> it would be something like a MSH with directions far apart
19:30:04  <PublicServer> <V453000> yes sure, but why would you make 2 parts of the MSH if you dont use 2way station
19:30:48  <PublicServer> <V453000> might be smaller, possibly, but you would get less space for SLHs, which is going to be a huge bitch with the amount of water
19:31:10  <PublicServer> <V453000> what that is :o
19:31:27  <PublicServer> <V453000> what is the difference between
19:31:41  <PublicServer> <Vinnie> :)
19:31:43  <PublicServer> <V453000> ..
19:32:04  <PublicServer> <V453000> the point is
19:32:15  <PublicServer> <V453000> if bypasses are then not going to be used
19:32:25  <PublicServer> <V453000> we are getting seriously ill network :d
19:32:25  <PublicServer> <Vinnie> yes i know
19:32:40  <PublicServer> <V453000> however empty trains should still use the bypass
19:32:42  <PublicServer> <Vinnie> but we essentailly have a loop :(
19:32:56  <PublicServer> <V453000> at least after >1 refits
19:33:12  <PublicServer> <Vinnie> but do you like this plan more?
19:33:14  <PublicServer> <V453000> after trains drop goods they still need to get to the primaries somehow
19:33:26  <PublicServer> <V453000> it feels unfinished so far
19:33:32  <PublicServer> <Vinnie> yes
19:33:34  <PublicServer> <V453000> but it is probably better than the previous version
19:33:44  <PublicServer> <V453000> it couldnt have been much worse before tbh
19:34:14  <PublicServer> <V453000> how do you define CW or CCW?
19:34:21  <PublicServer> <V453000> as in, what are the rules for trains
19:34:31  <PublicServer> <Vinnie> that is the interesting part
19:34:41  <PublicServer> <Vinnie> because there is a problem
19:34:55  <PublicServer> <V453000> is there?
19:35:09  <PublicServer> <V453000> lets say a train starts here
19:35:15  <PublicServer> <V453000> goes to NW
19:35:21  <PublicServer> <V453000> drops, refits, picks up
19:35:24  <PublicServer> <Vinnie> when the ML between two drops has a lot of primaries it also gets unblanced
19:35:26  <PublicServer> <V453000> goes to SW
19:35:34  <PublicServer> <V453000> then goes to S
19:35:38  <PublicServer> <V453000> now
19:35:46  <PublicServer> <V453000> well that is a problem indeed
19:35:53  <PublicServer> <V453000> doesnt have to be actually
19:35:58  <PublicServer> <V453000> now
19:36:29  <PublicServer> <Vinnie> why move 3?
19:36:40  <PublicServer> <V453000> 1 -> refit = go further, fail = go back the same way. if go further then goes to 2. There fail = go back the same way, there go further = go back the same way
19:36:46  <PublicServer> <V453000> if that says it
19:36:53  <PublicServer> <Vinnie> yes
19:36:56  <PublicServer> <V453000> because all of the traffic stays here
19:37:03  <PublicServer> <V453000> in both directions
19:37:05  <PublicServer> <V453000> at all times
19:37:06  <PublicServer> <Vinnie> but 3 will be on bypass track
19:37:11  <PublicServer> <V453000> why would it
19:37:25  <PublicServer> <V453000> well it will if it is already empty, it wont if it drops
19:37:28  <PublicServer> <Vinnie> station gives penalty so trains prefer the bypass track
19:37:33  <PublicServer> <V453000> but the idea is to balance both ends, which does it there
19:37:38  <PublicServer> <V453000> yes sure
19:37:56  <PublicServer> <V453000> but since the bypass should have trains going also the other direction, it should not be a problem
19:38:06  <PublicServer> <V453000> or ... what is the issue in your eyes?
19:38:20  <PublicServer> <Vinnie> you mean when you go one drop CCW trains go back over the other track therefore unbalanced
19:38:28  <PublicServer> <Vinnie> ?
19:38:41  <PublicServer> <V453000> lets make it step by step
19:40:30  <PublicServer> <V453000> that is the key
19:40:36  <PublicServer> <Vinnie> i see
19:40:40  <PublicServer> <V453000> it would return the other way
19:40:52  <PublicServer> <V453000> there
19:40:54  <PublicServer> <V453000> which would break it
19:41:20  <PublicServer> ***  made screenshot at 00039681: http://ps.openttdcoop.org/publicserver/webcam/00039681.png
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19:41:24  <PublicServer> <V453000> however since the network has a weird shape for that, there might be different circumstances for different parts of networks
19:41:37  <imus> !screen
19:41:37  <PublicServer> *** imus liked to make screenshot of last action, but nobody was working since. (http://ps.openttdcoop.org/publicserver/webcam/00039681.png)
19:41:46  <PublicServer> <V453000> which might create extreme amount of possibilities, which is what I fear all the time and why I feel like it is unfinished
19:42:20  <PublicServer> <V453000> because what about trains from y
19:42:22  <PublicServer> <Vinnie> those are only issues for iron (refit 3 times
19:42:33  <PublicServer> <Vinnie> refit two times will always go back
19:42:52  <PublicServer> <V453000> will it?
19:42:59  <PublicServer> <V453000> in X, it will
19:43:09  <PublicServer> <V453000> but that is only the straight ML case
19:43:12  <PublicServer> <V453000> what about others
19:43:30  <PublicServer> <V453000> y could go like 2, then 3
19:43:36  <PublicServer> <V453000> or 3, then 2, no matter now
19:44:03  <PublicServer> <V453000> this track gets always 1way traffic from that connection
19:44:05  <PublicServer> <V453000> just an example
19:44:10  <imus> !password
19:44:10  <PublicServer> imus: celery
19:44:15  <PublicServer> <V453000> but again, that is the general problem that refits make
19:44:23  <PublicServer> *** imus joined the game
19:44:27  <PublicServer> <Vinnie> Y would either go to NE or S not SW
19:44:47  <PublicServer> <V453000> how is SW different from S now
19:45:01  <PublicServer> <Vinnie> nvm i misread it
19:45:03  <PublicServer> <V453000> NE might be good
19:45:15  <PublicServer> <V453000> if their goods drop is NW
19:45:23  <PublicServer> <V453000> then they should return the same way
19:45:29  <PublicServer> <V453000> but you see how much pain it is
19:45:54  <PublicServer> <Vinnie> i see but i never said perfect game
19:46:06  <PublicServer> <V453000> sure sure, just pointing out
19:46:29  <PublicServer> <V453000> thing is, what do we actually use S for
19:47:10  <PublicServer> <V453000> because according to the logic we just did, it probably doesnt fit anywhere, does it
19:47:33  <PublicServer> <Vinnie> Z is the part between nunpool and Dafingbridge not really space for any primaries
19:47:39  <PublicServer> <Vinnie> so effect should be minimal
19:47:49  <PublicServer> <V453000> ignore z now
19:47:55  <PublicServer> <V453000> S is the concern for me
19:48:26  <PublicServer> <V453000> hm thats bad
19:48:44  <PublicServer> <V453000> but that is where we end if we make patterns on rather unsystematic map :)
19:49:39  <PublicServer> *** Tray has left the game (leaving)
19:50:03  <PublicServer> <V453000> I like refits, but this does not fit :(
19:51:45  <PublicServer> *** imus has left the game (leaving)
19:53:17  <PublicServer> <V453000> that is systematically the same i think
19:53:23  <PublicServer> <Vinnie> i know
19:53:37  <PublicServer> <V453000> well
19:53:43  <PublicServer> <Vinnie> more like a cleanup of the plan
19:53:43  <PublicServer> <V453000> trains from a could use it
19:54:11  <PublicServer> <V453000> b not :\
19:56:21  <PublicServer> ***  made screenshot at 00038478: http://ps.openttdcoop.org/publicserver/webcam/00038478.png
19:58:17  <PublicServer> <V453000> yeah the inner bbh would need to be removed but you would end with "just" a loop :|
19:58:31  <PublicServer> <Vinnie> yeah but this also does not work
19:58:51  <pugi> oh, i missed the planning phase :D
19:58:54  <PublicServer> <Vinnie> the track Z will only be used by empty trains
19:59:08  <PublicServer> <Vinnie> so S Mainline will need lower linecounts
19:59:10  <pugi> !password
19:59:10  <PublicServer> pugi: bulged
19:59:20  <PublicServer> *** pugi joined the game
19:59:38  <PublicServer> <Vinnie> but yes it gets unbalanced in the L vs R count
19:59:39  <PublicServer> <V453000> hi pugi :)
19:59:41  <PublicServer> <Vinnie> hello
19:59:47  <PublicServer> <pugi> hello
19:59:58  <PublicServer> <V453000> Vinnie: no I meant like completely shutting the middle BBH
20:00:02  <PublicServer> <V453000> like this
20:00:17  *** imus has quit IRC
20:00:20  <PublicServer> <V453000> that would solve the issue and make the CW CCW etc pattern usable
20:00:26  <PublicServer> <V453000> but I am unsure if you want that
20:00:33  <PublicServer> <V453000> not sure if I like that either :)
20:00:39  <PublicServer> <V453000> but it does fit the idea
20:00:39  <PublicServer> <pugi> lopo thinks tl20...
20:00:44  <PublicServer> <V453000> yes :d
20:00:49  <PublicServer> <pugi> quite impossible on this map
20:00:51  <PublicServer> <Vinnie> can be done, should not really matter
20:01:09  <PublicServer> <V453000> well, you have a solution then vinine
20:01:12  <PublicServer> <V453000> Vinnie
20:01:14  <PublicServer> <V453000> sorry :)
20:01:24  <PublicServer> <V453000> hate to write the V and tab twice :D
20:01:54  <PublicServer> <Vinnie> you want to be the only V?
20:02:06  <PublicServer> <V453000> I dont care :P
20:02:36  <PublicServer> <V453000> hmm
20:02:54  <PublicServer> <Vinnie> it can be connected in a single SLH
20:03:12  <PublicServer> <V453000> true that area should be fine being doubled
20:03:22  <PublicServer> <V453000> which makes me even more wtf by having no drop there :D
20:03:45  <PublicServer> <V453000> the problem is, the layout is getting closer and closer to my plan :(
20:03:55  <PublicServer> <V453000> which isnt too surprising I suppose
20:04:11  <PublicServer> <Vinnie> you trick me
20:04:21  <PublicServer> <Vinnie> changing my plan into yours so you always win
20:04:33  <PublicServer> <Vinnie> :P
20:04:35  <PublicServer> <V453000> no you just logically get to the same conclusiong because it fits that role
20:04:37  <PublicServer> <V453000> lol
20:04:47  *** Maraxus has quit IRC
20:05:23  <PublicServer> <Vinnie> there are enough differences
20:05:30  <PublicServer> <V453000> certainly
20:06:31  <PublicServer> <V453000> no oil?
20:06:37  <PublicServer> <V453000> there wont be oil rigs
20:06:39  <PublicServer> <Vinnie> yeah i just see it
20:06:49  <PublicServer> <Vinnie> does not fit in the text :(
20:06:54  <PublicServer> <V453000> xd
20:07:10  <PublicServer> <V453000> better? :p
20:07:28  <PublicServer> <V453000> livestock is stupidly long word :x
20:07:40  <PublicServer> <V453000> for something as useless as a cow
20:07:55  <PublicServer> <Vinnie> Co2 factory
20:08:15  <PublicServer> <V453000> right
20:08:21  <PublicServer> <V453000> now the other definition of CW/CCW
20:08:32  <PublicServer> <V453000> why does X go CCW
20:08:35  <PublicServer> <V453000> why not CW
20:09:14  <PublicServer> <pugi> i think i have to vote for V's plan again... :(
20:09:24  <PublicServer> <V453000> what is bad about that?
20:09:30  <PublicServer> <pugi> it is approximately the plan i had in mind
20:09:46  <PublicServer> <pugi> because your plan always gets chosen and other plan-makers will get demotivated by that :D
20:09:46  <PublicServer> <V453000> that is good news to me :)
20:09:58  <PublicServer> <V453000> demotivated? or motivated?
20:10:02  <PublicServer> <V453000> questionable :P
20:10:04  <PublicServer> <pugi> demotivated :P
20:10:06  <PublicServer> <Vinnie> demotivated
20:10:13  <PublicServer> <Vinnie> trust me :d
20:10:19  <PublicServer> <pugi> yes
20:10:22  <PublicServer> <V453000> or motivated such as lopo said, "we have to try better"
20:10:37  <PublicServer> <Vinnie> it is so unfair
20:10:45  <LoPo> lopo?
20:10:47  <LoPo> :P
20:10:49  <PublicServer> <pugi> but i think in your plan the northeast part of the map is a bit unused
20:10:52  <PublicServer> <V453000> yes that bastard LoPo :P
20:11:03  <LoPo> >_<
20:11:04  <PublicServer> <pugi> only sawmill in that area
20:11:11  <PublicServer> <pugi> well... i forgot about the primaries
20:11:13  <PublicServer> <V453000> pugi: networkwise, it is used very well I think
20:11:21  <PublicServer> ***  made screenshot at 00038886: http://ps.openttdcoop.org/publicserver/webcam/00038886.png
20:11:30  <PublicServer> <Vinnie> first you make a plan in your head. then you figure out the newgrf's and make a map for it. And we havve to compete agains a solid plan for a map
20:11:34  <PublicServer> <V453000> yes, some primaries added too, but you also have goods there
20:11:46  <PublicServer> <V453000> Vinnie: do you really think I can be arsed to make a map for a plan?
20:12:04  <PublicServer> <V453000> and why doesnt someone else make a map?
20:12:06  <PublicServer> <Vinnie> i guess you just answerd me :D
20:12:12  <PublicServer> <pugi> well, the plan i had in mind had no connection from northeast to northwest
20:13:11  <PublicServer> <V453000> plus to be honest Vinnie, my plan has nothing else but using the landscape and trying to make a network which reflects it
20:13:21  <PublicServer> <V453000> if it was at least some special idea, ok, it might fit to the map
20:13:24  <PublicServer> <pugi> and V, i added plans for maybe 6-7 games. and always your plan was chosen :D
20:13:34  <PublicServer> <pugi> so yes, it is a bit demotivating :P
20:13:37  <PublicServer> <V453000> well, your plans were worse then :P
20:13:48  <PublicServer> <V453000> is it motivating if a worse plan wins? :)
20:14:55  <PublicServer> <Vinnie> Coal and ore drop should be just coal?
20:15:05  <PublicServer> <V453000> ?
20:15:08  <PublicServer> <pugi> no, why?
20:15:22  <PublicServer> <Vinnie> you have a coal + ore drop in your plan and steelmill N and S
20:15:36  <PublicServer> <V453000> steel drop, not steel mill
20:15:45  <PublicServer> <pugi> steel drop is factory
20:15:46  <PublicServer> <pugi> ore drop is steel mill
20:15:48  <PublicServer> <Vinnie> fail
20:15:51  <PublicServer> <pugi> :D
20:15:53  <PublicServer> <V453000> :p
20:16:04  <PublicServer> <V453000> it wouldnt make much sense to have coal drop alone
20:16:06  <PublicServer> <pugi> but i wanted to do tl4 :P
20:16:12  <PublicServer> <V453000> TL4 is a lot I think here
20:16:14  <PublicServer> <pugi> maybe i can still add my plan :D
20:16:26  <PublicServer> <pugi> hm
20:16:26  <LoPo> well if you dont want V's plan to win ;P then vote for me instead :D
20:16:34  <PublicServer> <V453000> LoPo: TL20 yeah :D
20:16:40  <PublicServer> <pugi> sorry lopo, your plan is impossible
20:16:50  <PublicServer> <V453000> whole island long waiting bays, suuuuuure :D
20:17:15  <LoPo> TL20 is not taht long
20:17:18  <PublicServer> <pugi> when i first saw the map i thought "damn, i wanted to do a long train plan next. but on this map that would be impossible"
20:17:22  <PublicServer> <pugi> it is :D
20:17:28  <PublicServer> <V453000> TL20 is insanely long
20:17:33  <LoPo> but yeah maybe not the best fitting plan for this amount of wter
20:17:34  <LoPo> water*
20:17:38  <PublicServer> <V453000> yes pugi said that :D thats true
20:18:00  <PublicServer> <pugi> also the continents are quite hilly
20:18:14  <PublicServer> <V453000> most of them are indeed
20:20:40  <V453000> Vinnie: the only maps for plan are 180, 192, you could call so 207 as well :) just to "admit" your point :P
20:20:44  <V453000> which is ... not too valid ;)
20:21:20  <PublicServer> <V453000> and well, all of those games ended up very nicely ... bring the blame :D
20:21:44  <PublicServer> <pugi> vinnie, what is the point of the non electric line?
20:21:54  <PublicServer> <pugi> and why bridges with waiting times? :D
20:22:04  <PublicServer> <V453000> just showing where L_R is
20:22:05  <Vinnie_nl> only primaries that exit and reurn
20:22:08  <PublicServer> <V453000> not unectrefied
20:22:18  <PublicServer> <V453000> the bridge note, no clue
20:22:19  <Vinnie_nl> could be maglev now makes it more clear
20:22:27  <PublicServer> <pugi> ah...
20:22:38  <PublicServer> <pugi> i would use the same type and add a note to it
20:22:57  <PublicServer> <V453000> true that when it is only 1 part of network .. :)
20:23:39  <PublicServer> <Vinnie> first plan in a lot of games so i don't really care atm to be shot down
20:24:09  <PublicServer> <pugi> well... the idea is nice... but not really fitting on this map i think
20:24:19  <PublicServer> <Vinnie> i think my last one was when we played a two network game with 1 BBH
20:24:29  <PublicServer> <pugi> also every drop station accepts everything is quite unusual
20:24:40  <PublicServer> <V453000> yes, 204, but we realized that later on :)
20:24:51  <PublicServer> <V453000> pugi: look at psg 205, it is basically the same idea
20:25:01  <PublicServer> <V453000> all drops accepting all is fine
20:25:11  <PublicServer> <pugi> i didn't say it is bad :D
20:25:13  <PublicServer> <V453000> that it doesnt fit as much ... I said that too
20:25:19  <PublicServer> <V453000> okay :)
20:25:53  <PublicServer> <pugi> heh... i could make a plan with tl1 :D
20:26:19  <PublicServer> <V453000> ... :)
20:26:22  <PublicServer> <pugi> i always wanted to do that
20:26:28  <PublicServer> <V453000> TL1 doesnt save that much space btw
20:26:43  <PublicServer> <pugi> but more fun
20:26:45  <PublicServer> <Vinnie> TL2
20:26:51  <PublicServer> <pugi> and we could use signalgap 1 :D
20:26:53  <PublicServer> <V453000> TL1 is not fun :D you get lag WAAAY too early
20:27:04  <PublicServer> <V453000> signalgap 1 breaks
20:27:14  <PublicServer> <pugi> hm, okay
20:27:41  <PublicServer> <pugi> but i think a tl1 bbh would be easy to build :D
20:27:59  <PublicServer> <V453000> not really
20:28:09  <PublicServer> <V453000> in fact it might be harder than a TL3 BBH
20:28:16  <PublicServer> <V453000> or well, very different
20:28:26  <PublicServer> <V453000> bridges become a major pain
20:28:36  <PublicServer> <pugi> hn
20:28:38  <PublicServer> <pugi> hm
20:28:44  <PublicServer> <V453000> depends on trains really, if you have good accelerating trains, 4 tile bridge is bad
20:28:58  <PublicServer> <pugi> TL1 steam engine? :P
20:29:00  <PublicServer> <V453000> and if you need many bridges in a BBH, you could have some serious issues
20:29:11  <PublicServer> <V453000> not only in crossings, but also in merger choices
20:29:17  <PublicServer> <V453000> sure, CL1 is nice..
20:29:24  <PublicServer> <V453000> not sure if worth it
20:29:46  <PublicServer> <V453000> but sure, it would probably get all smaller in the end, but the lag would still be there
20:29:52  <PublicServer> <V453000> you would have lik LL_RR and 2000 trains
20:29:55  <PublicServer> <V453000> like
20:30:05  <PublicServer> <pugi> :D
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20:32:05  <PublicServer> <V453000> hi xeryus :)
20:32:16  <PublicServer> <XeryusTC> hey V
20:32:28  <PublicServer> <XeryusTC> your real name is weird btw :P
20:32:46  <pugi> heh, yeah :D
20:32:49  <PublicServer> <V453000> thanks :D
20:33:11  <PublicServer> <V453000> the last two czech presidents had the same first name, so ... :D
20:33:33  <PublicServer> <XeryusTC> so that's why you behave so bossy around here
20:33:39  <PublicServer> <V453000> :D lol
20:34:18  <PublicServer> <XeryusTC> no grid lines :(
20:34:25  <PublicServer> <pugi> :)
20:34:54  <PublicServer> <V453000> dislike?
20:34:57  <PublicServer> <V453000> I like it quite a lot
20:35:31  <PublicServer> <XeryusTC> makes it hard to build
20:35:37  <PublicServer> <V453000> I dont think
20:35:57  <PublicServer> <V453000> dont tell me you dont have the grids burnt in the eyes yet
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20:36:34  <PublicServer> <XeryusTC> well, grid makes it easier to predict how many tiles you need to build for stuff to line up
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20:36:41  <PublicServer> <XeryusTC> i have gotten pretty good at that over the years
20:37:17  <PublicServer> <V453000> dont know I usually judge that when zoomed out
20:37:23  <PublicServer> <V453000> so I dont see grids in either case
20:37:34  <PublicServer> <XeryusTC> well, i mean when you build some lines
20:37:45  <PublicServer> <V453000> but I still think the landscape is so square-ish that is still is equally hard :)
20:38:15  <PublicServer> <V453000> well when I already build then I can see how the progress is
20:38:22  <PublicServer> <V453000> but well, a matter of feeling I guess
20:40:50  <PublicServer> <XeryusTC> made a plan :D
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20:41:27  <PublicServer> <V453000> :)
20:41:42  <PublicServer> <V453000> hm, wood with iron?
20:41:49  <PublicServer> <V453000> wood has weak wagons already
20:41:54  <PublicServer> <V453000> likely to get many trains
20:42:17  <PublicServer> <V453000> imo coal with ore is better there
20:42:27  <PublicServer> <V453000> just saying :)
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20:57:36  <PublicServer> <V453000> :D
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21:08:57  <Dilandau> !password
21:08:57  <PublicServer> Dilandau: tolled
21:09:18  <PublicServer> *** Dilandau joined the game
21:09:23  <PublicServer> <Dilandau> hi ^^
21:09:30  <pugi> !clcalc erail 4
21:09:33  <PublicServer> <Vinnie> hey
21:09:36  <pugi> @clcalc erail 4
21:09:37  <Webster> pugi: A rail Curve Length of 4 (7 half tiles) gives a speed of 196km/h or 122mph
21:09:52  <pugi> uhm...
21:09:54  <pugi> nevermind :D
21:09:56  <pugi> hi :D
21:10:54  <PublicServer> <V453000> elo :)
21:11:25  <PublicServer> ***  made screenshot at 00037631: http://ps.openttdcoop.org/publicserver/webcam/00037631.png
21:11:44  <PublicServer> <Dilandau> +1 for V
21:11:46  <PublicServer> <V453000> ooh pugi did it :D
21:11:49  <PublicServer> <pugi> i did :P
21:11:51  <PublicServer> <V453000> thanks Dilandau :)
21:12:03  <PublicServer> <pugi> dilandau, don't
21:12:09  <PublicServer> <pugi> mine is like his, only better :D
21:12:17  <PublicServer> <Vinnie> nice
21:12:27  <PublicServer> <V453000> yes, with extreme traffic in the center area :D
21:12:33  <PublicServer> <pugi> :P
21:12:36  <PublicServer> <V453000> where is ... not much land? :D
21:13:10  <PublicServer> <Dilandau> 49% for Vinnie, 51% for V453000
21:13:26  <PublicServer> <pugi> at least i was able to make a nice apporximation for the map in small scale :P
21:13:30  <PublicServer> <Vinnie> i give you a cookie
21:13:40  <PublicServer> <Vinnie> free
21:13:46  <PublicServer> <Dilandau> :p
21:14:14  <PublicServer> <Vinnie> both plans are V atm :p
21:14:21  <PublicServer> <Dilandau> :p
21:14:42  <PublicServer> <Dilandau> the 2% is for the dual engine ^^
21:15:05  <PublicServer> <pugi> i think one should be powerful enough...
21:15:11  <PublicServer> <V453000> try it
21:15:13  <PublicServer> <V453000> full trains will struggle
21:15:19  <PublicServer> <pugi> okay...
21:15:22  <PublicServer> <V453000> and 2 are definitely worth it if you need space
21:15:28  <PublicServer> <pugi> i only looked at the values and compared :/
21:15:50  <PublicServer> <V453000> it _used to_ be enough
21:16:06  <PublicServer> <V453000> until the acceleration was changed to a be weaker in general
21:16:14  <PublicServer> <V453000> which was in times of psg 198 iirc
21:17:14  <PublicServer> <Vinnie> 2 free cookies?
21:17:32  <PublicServer> <V453000> ? :D
21:17:41  <PublicServer> <Vinnie> i am bribing Dilandau
21:18:08  <PublicServer> <V453000> you better sit and be glad that you breathe :D else I could demand credit for the 2 hour help I tried to provide :P
21:20:27  <PublicServer> <Dilandau> ^^
21:22:03  <PublicServer> <V453000> mfb: is infinity/infinity actually 1?
21:24:24  <PublicServer> <Vinnie> i can answer that since i typed that
21:24:26  <V453000> http://www.newton.dep.anl.gov/newton/askasci/1995/math/MATH046.HTM
21:24:27  <Webster> Title: Infinity / Infinity = ? (at www.newton.dep.anl.gov)
21:24:33  <PublicServer> <V453000> oh :)
21:24:48  <PublicServer> <Vinnie> divide something by itself is always 1
21:25:19  <PublicServer> <V453000> not infinity though
21:25:27  <PublicServer> <V453000> you can have infinity/infinity*2
21:25:39  <PublicServer> <Vinnie> that is huge
21:25:41  <PublicServer> <V453000> which would still be infinity/infinity
21:25:55  <PublicServer> <V453000> I think there are some conditions under which it is 1
21:26:13  <PublicServer> <Vinnie> but do you agree infinity / 1 = infinity?
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21:26:37  <PublicServer> <V453000> I didnt say I agree on that :D
21:26:47  <PublicServer> <Vinnie> i am asking
21:26:57  <PublicServer> <V453000> I dont know I am not much of a matematician but I think infinity is just infinity and cant be divided
21:27:15  <PublicServer> <V453000> infinity/1 isnt a division I suppose
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21:29:11  <PublicServer> <pugi> okay
21:29:17  <PublicServer> <pugi> i think my plan is finished
21:29:23  <PublicServer> <Vinnie> leys see
21:29:23  <PublicServer> <pugi> maybe i can get one vote this time :D
21:29:27  <PublicServer> <Vinnie> lets
21:29:29  <PublicServer> <pugi> but i guess not :P
21:30:03  <PublicServer> <V453000> oh fuck it changed :D
21:30:09  <PublicServer> <pugi> a bit
21:30:09  <PublicServer> <V453000> hmm
21:30:17  <PublicServer> <V453000> the center is still going to be hell if you want to hear something :)
21:30:19  <PublicServer> <pugi> i changed stations quite a bit :D
21:30:33  <PublicServer> <V453000> while ore drop is going to be calm and dead
21:30:44  <PublicServer> <pugi> well, i don't want to bridge the north :(
21:30:53  <PublicServer> <V453000> then you could add something else to the north
21:31:04  <PublicServer> <V453000> like, make there iron drop, coal drop at least?
21:31:11  <PublicServer> <V453000> I would make there also some wood drop or something tbh
21:31:14  <PublicServer> <pugi> hmm
21:31:20  <PublicServer> <pugi> it is a bit lonely, yes
21:31:26  <PublicServer> <V453000> and separate grain and cow drop because that area is getting insane amount of traffic already
21:31:28  <PublicServer> <pugi> but there isn't much space
21:31:30  <PublicServer> <V453000> and a huge factory in that place is mad
21:31:45  <PublicServer> <V453000> there is, if you join iron ore drop with something else, spaces free up
21:32:03  <PublicServer> <pugi> i had it with coal first
21:32:05  <PublicServer> <Vinnie> crap infinity / infinity  is no 1
21:32:07  <PublicServer> <pugi> but then it would be even more your plan :D
21:32:10  <PublicServer> <Vinnie> not
21:32:17  <PublicServer> <V453000> hm pugi :D
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21:33:08  <PublicServer> <pugi> :P
21:34:07  <PublicServer> <V453000> I would say something but you will hate me
21:34:14  <PublicServer> <pugi> oil drop has not enough space i think
21:34:22  <PublicServer> <V453000> swap it with goods drop
21:34:36  <PublicServer> <V453000> ML going to goods drop means only half-SLHs
21:34:42  <PublicServer> <V453000> and that place needs the space help
21:34:49  <PublicServer> <pugi> i had goods drop where oil drop is first
21:34:51  <PublicServer> <V453000> the west where the current goods drop is has plenty of space
21:34:57  <PublicServer> <pugi> i forgot that means it needs no pickup <.<
21:35:07  <PublicServer> <V453000> hehe, also the pickup issue
21:35:17  <PublicServer> <V453000> but I think the station has enough space itself
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21:35:52  <PublicServer> <V453000> you can use all of that from Great Slonfingbridge to the powerplant behind Gutway
21:35:55  <PublicServer> <V453000> lots of space
21:36:17  <PublicServer> <V453000> but in general you are right that in your plan it would be better to make goods drop there
21:36:24  <PublicServer> <pugi> you mean ore and coal drop there?
21:36:44  <PublicServer> <V453000> coal still needs SLH going towards it
21:36:47  <PublicServer> <V453000> goods drop not
21:36:54  <PublicServer> <pugi> hm, yeah
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21:39:26  <PublicServer> <V453000> iron ore -> steel is a bit bad refit, you have only small wagons
21:39:27  <nicfer> !password
21:39:27  <PublicServer> nicfer: braces
21:39:39  <PublicServer> <V453000> while you could use stronget wagons in general
21:39:39  <PublicServer> <pugi> :D
21:39:50  <PublicServer> <V453000> stronger
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21:39:54  <PublicServer> <pugi> true
21:40:28  <PublicServer> <V453000> 15 vs 40 is huge difference
21:40:40  <PublicServer> <V453000> effectiveness-wise, the refit cant be better there
21:41:21  <PublicServer> <V453000> I suppose in absolutely ideal case refit could improve throughput by 100% as no empty trains would be travelling at that point
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21:42:54  <PublicServer> <V453000> want hints pugi?
21:43:33  <PublicServer> <V453000> or are you satisfied and want me to shut up already? :D
21:43:42  <PublicServer> <pugi> i wanted to change something just now...
21:43:48  <PublicServer> <pugi> but i kind of forgot <.<
21:43:58  <PublicServer> <pugi> ah yes, two factories
21:44:33  <PublicServer> <V453000> well you could have one factory easily
21:44:43  <PublicServer> <pugi> hm?
21:44:49  <PublicServer> <V453000> just swap it with current wood drop and it is good I think
21:45:00  <PublicServer> <V453000> Possibly move grain or livestock to oil drop
21:45:06  <PublicServer> <pugi> mh, yeah...
21:46:14  <PublicServer> <V453000> wood is strong by itself because wagons are only 25t, oil + 1 farm cargo is 2 standard cargoes, iron ore and coal should be together just fine, a bit weaker, and steel with one farm cargo should be also a tiny bit weaker but still ok
21:46:43  <PublicServer> <V453000> in "expectable generic situation"
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21:46:58  <PublicServer> <V453000> you sure cant guess what cargo is going to be strongest, but you know ... there is some logic
21:47:04  <PublicServer> <pugi> uhm... okay
21:47:10  <PublicServer> <pugi> i have no idea about that :D
21:47:17  <PublicServer> <V453000> well just look at wagons
21:47:27  <PublicServer> <V453000> and consider what produces goods
21:47:50  <PublicServer> <V453000> wood has weakest wagons and produces goods, so it is likely to be high traffic
21:48:09  <PublicServer> <V453000> oil has 30t wagons which is standard and produces goods, so still a bit high
21:48:20  <PublicServer> <V453000> livestock has 30t as well but produces goods in a bit lower ratio than oil
21:48:40  <PublicServer> <V453000> grain has 40t wagons and produces goods in a ration a tiny bit higher than livestock I think, if not the same ratio
21:49:20  <PublicServer> <V453000> then you have ore which is 40t wagon and some steel, but steel has weak wagons so it gets more traffic than grain
21:49:34  <PublicServer> <V453000> and finally you have coal which has 40t wagons and no products
21:49:56  <PublicServer> <V453000> goods drop is busy but thanks to 80 crate wagons, it isnt that horrific
21:50:07  <PublicServer> <V453000> understand my logic? :)
21:50:17  <PublicServer> <pugi> a bit :D
21:50:19  <PublicServer> <V453000> :(
21:50:28  <pugi> yeah, i think i do understand it
21:50:35  <PublicServer> <V453000> I know you do
21:50:37  <PublicServer> <V453000> :P
21:50:39  <pugi> i just never thought about it
21:50:48  <pugi> how many trains each kind of cargo needs
21:50:54  <pugi> i thought it would be about the same
21:51:10  <PublicServer> <V453000> well most train sets have the same capacities
21:51:19  <PublicServer> <V453000> true that even then you can make a bit of a though, but not much
21:51:22  <PublicServer> <V453000> or, less
21:51:28  <PublicServer> <V453000> with DB set the differences are quite significant
21:51:34  <PublicServer> <V453000> 25 vs. 40 is a lot
21:51:40  <PublicServer> <V453000> that is almost double
21:52:08  <PublicServer> <V453000> btw not adding coal to ore drop? :)
21:52:22  <PublicServer> <pugi> hm... isn't coal drop a bit irrelavant?
21:52:36  <PublicServer> <pugi> well, goods has already high load, yes
21:52:38  <PublicServer> <V453000> well firsly coal drop needs SLHs turned towards it as we said
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21:52:48  <PublicServer> <V453000> and ore drop is a bit abandoned without coal tbh
21:53:08  <PublicServer> <pugi> but ore drop is small island :D
21:53:14  <PublicServer> <V453000> thats fine
21:53:20  <PublicServer> <V453000> there doesnt have to be anything else
21:53:26  <PublicServer> <V453000> maybe a tiny SLH?
21:53:32  <PublicServer> <V453000> just fine I would say
21:53:34  <PublicServer> <pugi> yeah, i guess
21:54:17  <PublicServer> <nicfercoop> bigger wagons would mean more weight for the train
21:54:17  <PublicServer> <V453000> btw the saying that 2 engines get more love than single is funny :D
21:54:31  <PublicServer> <pugi> ;)
21:54:37  <PublicServer> <V453000> nicfercoop: definitely, but you still get many of them :)
21:54:39  <PublicServer> <nicfercoop> so goods should use double locomotive
21:54:49  <PublicServer> <V453000> no, goods have less weight
21:54:49  <PublicServer> <Vinnie> all
21:55:20  <PublicServer> <V453000> I think 3 crates of goods weigh 2 tonnes but not 100% sure
21:55:24  <PublicServer> <V453000> but it definitely is not 1:1
21:55:44  <PublicServer> <nicfercoop> light cargos like wood or livestock should use singles
21:56:04  <PublicServer> <V453000> possibly
21:56:25  <PublicServer> ***  made screenshot at 00017124: http://ps.openttdcoop.org/publicserver/webcam/00017124.png
21:56:37  <PublicServer> <pugi> okay, for my voting board counting now i have tan(90°) instead of infinity :P
21:56:47  <PublicServer> <V453000> fine :D
21:57:01  <PublicServer> <Vinnie> infinity + 1 is more
21:57:04  <PublicServer> <pugi> no :P
21:57:08  <PublicServer> <pugi> it is the same
21:57:28  <PublicServer> <Vinnie> there not possible
21:57:40  <PublicServer> <pugi> divide... not devide
21:57:50  <PublicServer> <Vinnie> yes i see now
21:58:20  <PublicServer> <V453000> pugi: if your plan eats half of my plan votes and we both lose to vinnie crap plan, you are a dead man pugi, dead man :D
21:58:27  <PublicServer> <pugi> ;D
21:58:33  <PublicServer> <pugi> won't happen :P
21:58:43  <PublicServer> <V453000> I dont believe so either :)
21:58:46  <PublicServer> <Vinnie> i am your enemy, muhahaha
21:58:54  <PublicServer> <V453000> well our plans are similar :)
21:59:08  <PublicServer> <pugi> they are.. but i don't bridge in the north :D
21:59:34  <PublicServer> <V453000> yes but the general cargo distibution follows the same mind illness :p
21:59:36  <PublicServer> <pugi> and you have your ml along the border
22:00:03  <PublicServer> <V453000> yes, it isnt the same, your hubs will be much closer together
22:00:22  <PublicServer> <pugi> i don't really need the second wood hub now...
22:00:32  <PublicServer> <V453000> probably not
22:00:50  <PublicServer> <pugi> as it was iron ore drop -> steel drop connection
22:01:01  <PublicServer> <V453000> I see
22:01:04  <PublicServer> <V453000> well not much of a use
22:01:22  <PublicServer> <pugi> only for forests on continent 2 :D
22:01:50  <PublicServer> <V453000> oh I thought you will remove the other bbh x,x
22:01:56  <PublicServer> <pugi> ah :D
22:01:58  <PublicServer> <pugi> hey
22:02:00  <PublicServer> <V453000> now they are still close to each other :D
22:02:02  <PublicServer> <pugi> much better idea :D
22:02:26  <PublicServer> <V453000> yes that seems to make more sense :)
22:03:03  <PublicServer> <V453000> anywhere there :)
22:03:13  <PublicServer> <Vinnie> same plan less drops
22:03:27  <PublicServer> <pugi> :P
22:03:37  <PublicServer> <V453000> not entirely same
22:03:47  <PublicServer> <V453000> mine still uses the space a bit better I think :P
22:04:12  <PublicServer> <pugi> ring is always more efficient than bus
22:04:22  <PublicServer> <V453000> hm :)
22:04:48  <PublicServer> <Vinnie> one ring or a second ring to return?
22:05:03  <PublicServer> <pugi> one
22:05:13  <PublicServer> <pugi> well, at least a ring
22:05:23  <PublicServer> <pugi> opposed to the U form i use
22:05:33  <PublicServer> <pugi> ring is closer if you want to get from one end to the other
22:06:28  <PublicServer> <nicfercoop> does someone remember a game with TL4?
22:06:38  <PublicServer> <pugi> i am sure there were some
22:06:53  <PublicServer> <pugi> but this map is too hilly, too much water for tl4
22:07:28  <V453000> 213 nicfercoop
22:08:19  <PublicServer> <V453000> 197 the one before that I think
22:08:25  <PublicServer> <V453000> TL4 is a bit odd :)
22:08:47  <PublicServer> <pugi> wow, the small island west of your plan has 3 primaries and 3 secondaries, V :D
22:08:53  <PublicServer> <Vinnie> tl50 :)
22:09:11  <PublicServer> <pugi> oh, vinnies plan
22:09:11  <PublicServer> <pugi> sorry
22:09:17  <PublicServer> <V453000> was wondering
22:09:23  <PublicServer> <pugi> :D
22:09:25  <PublicServer> <pugi> something with V :P
22:10:27  <PublicServer> <nicfercoop> whats the highest TL game made?
22:11:26  <PublicServer> ***  made screenshot at 0003803C: http://ps.openttdcoop.org/publicserver/webcam/0003803C.png
22:11:42  <PublicServer> <V453000> for all trains TL17
22:11:44  <PublicServer> <V453000> for some, TL50
22:11:59  <PublicServer> <V453000> or at least I think the TL17 was the highest
22:12:06  <PublicServer> <Vinnie> TL17 as in the logic engine game?
22:12:20  <PublicServer> <V453000> yes 203
22:12:27  <PublicServer> <Vinnie> that has TL6 feeders
22:12:49  <PublicServer> <V453000> oh true
22:12:51  <PublicServer> <V453000> forgot about those
22:12:54  <PublicServer> <V453000> but well, ML
22:13:13  <PublicServer> <V453000> the TL17 still had a regular network
22:13:44  <PublicServer> <Vinnie> that was a wierd game
22:13:52  <PublicServer> <V453000> undoubtedly
22:14:10  <PublicServer> <Vinnie> SLH's for 2 TL
22:14:45  <PublicServer> *** pugi has left the game (leaving)
22:15:57  <PublicServer> <V453000> well it was at least interesting to do something different for once I think :)
22:16:19  <PublicServer> <V453000> the results might not have been somehow stunning, but nice
22:16:34  <PublicServer> <Vinnie> that were 3 insane games in a row
22:17:04  <PublicServer> <Vinnie> only need to check 202
22:18:13  <V453000> 202 was nice
22:18:21  <V453000> super fluent traffic in the end
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22:18:59  <PublicServer> <Vinnie> refit :D
22:20:01  <PublicServer> <V453000> 202 wasnt refit afaik
22:20:12  <PublicServer> <V453000> chasing the yeti, ML above snow
22:20:55  <PublicServer> <Vinnie> oh yes. make ml on snowline so less forrest spawn
22:21:05  <PublicServer> <Vinnie> i made a super ugly 2 way SLH then
22:22:53  <mfb-> :D
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22:26:16  <PublicServer> <Vinnie> §§
22:26:26  <PublicServer> ***  made screenshot at 0002BA07: http://ps.openttdcoop.org/publicserver/webcam/0002BA07.png
22:27:06  <Vinnie_nl> pugi your tan 90 defined by google
22:27:08  <Vinnie_nl> http://www.google.com/search?sclient=psy-ab&hl=en&source=hp&q=tan+90&pbx=1&oq=tan+90&aq=f&aqi=g1&gs_upl=2898l2898l7l3161l1l1l0l0l0l0l136l136l0.1l1l0&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.,cf.osb&biw=1117&bih=717
22:27:09  <Webster> Title: tan 90 - Google Search (at www.google.com)
22:27:52  <PublicServer> <nicfercoop> V453000, your ring idea is something like I made at the very east of your plan?
22:28:19  <PublicServer> <V453000> I dont know how do you mean it but I get the feeling that absolutely not
22:28:29  <PublicServer> <V453000> just a normal ML in the global shape of a ring
22:28:49  <PublicServer> <V453000> this is more like it
22:29:00  <PublicServer> <V453000> ofc enlarged drastically but the directions kept
22:30:57  <PublicServer> <nicfercoop> I was thinking about a plan more based on a continent-based ML feeded by island transferences
22:31:17  <PublicServer> <V453000> transfer are useless
22:31:23  <PublicServer> <V453000> transfers
22:32:57  <PublicServer> <nicfercoop> or having 'primary MLs' for the continents and 'secondaries' for islands
22:32:57  <PublicServer> <V453000> but sure, it would be a solution, as well as random point to point network would be a solution, or an absolute chaos ship-only game would be a solution :)
22:33:55  <PublicServer> <V453000> well if you make small MLs for each piece of land, you probably get so small ML in most places that there is no reason to build them in the end
22:34:09  <PublicServer> <V453000> we usually like to have stuff globally connected as since then it can actually be called a network
22:34:35  <PublicServer> <V453000> sure, for example last game had for example the FPPs which were separated, but again those were much less important than the actual mail network which was global
22:35:27  <PublicServer> *** nicfercoop has left the game (connection lost)
22:38:55  <PublicServer> <V453000> I will be going to bed
22:38:57  <PublicServer> <V453000> good night
22:39:00  <PublicServer> <Vinnie> cya
22:39:03  <PublicServer> *** V453000 has left the game (leaving)
22:39:05  <PublicServer> <LoPo> bb
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22:39:39  <nicfer1> !password
22:39:39  <PublicServer> nicfer1: titted
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22:40:03  <PublicServer> <nicfercoop> crappy internet
22:40:37  <PublicServer> <Vinnie> are you going to vote?
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22:43:45  <PublicServer> <nicfercoop> I dunno
22:44:05  <PublicServer> <nicfercoop> it seems that the plans are  rather indiferent
22:45:30  <PublicServer> <nicfercoop> why everybody shuts up when I talk?
22:45:44  <PublicServer> <Vinnie> ohh i am reading on the internet
22:46:05  <pugi> Vinnie_nl, try tangens of 90 degrees :P
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22:46:20  <Vinnie_nl> i know but google fails
22:46:21  <pugi> http://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=tan%2890%C2%B0%29
22:46:22  <Webster> Title: tan90 - Wolfram|Alpha (at www.wolframalpha.com)
22:46:38  <pugi> ^^
22:46:48  <Dominik2000> !password
22:46:48  <PublicServer> Dominik2000: clowns
22:47:03  <Vinnie_nl> i also learned infinity != infinity
22:47:19  <Vinnie_nl> damn voting board got me lost on the internet
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22:47:42  <pugi> heh :D
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22:50:18  <V453000> :D and one would expect that the only thing required is counting votes with your fingers :D
22:51:08  <PublicServer> <nicfercoop> I think that double steel drop is rather useless, shouldn't be better double iron drop?
22:51:49  <Dominik2000> is there a voting? Can we play on this map? There are only planes?
22:51:52  <PublicServer> <Vinnie> i don't know why but we can check by looking at the wagon limits
22:52:02  <PublicServer> <Vinnie> Dominik2000: Voting only atm
22:52:17  <Dominik2000> that means its no game?
22:52:27  <PublicServer> <Vinnie> not yet
22:52:55  <Dominik2000> ok, and when ends the voting?
22:53:13  <PublicServer> <Vinnie> hard to say maybe tommorow maybe the day after
22:53:51  <PublicServer> <nicfercoop> all plans are cargo only?
22:53:57  <Dominik2000> ok, and what is being voted?
22:53:59  <PublicServer> <Vinnie> yes
22:54:18  <PublicServer> <Vinnie> mostly because last game we made some big cities
22:54:25  <V453000> @quickstart
22:54:26  <Webster> Quickstart - #openttdcoop Wiki - http://wiki.openttdcoop.org/Quickstart
22:54:28  <V453000> Dominik2000: ^
22:54:47  <Dominik2000> !help
22:54:47  <PublicServer> Dominik2000: http://www.openttdcoop.org/wiki/IRC_Commands
22:54:56  <PublicServer> <Vinnie> even in his sleep he summons @quickstart
22:56:12  <PublicServer> <nicfercoop> maybe a future game we shall try to cover all the world with cities, in a industry less temperate map
22:56:22  <PublicServer> <Vinnie> psg 201
22:56:30  <PublicServer> <Vinnie>  @@records
22:56:31  <Webster> #openttdcoop Records: Clients: 26 | Trains: 2553 (PSG#201) - 2522 (PZG#5) - ( 3000 (PSG#180) logic net) | Single cargo type output: 200,169 (PZG#13) | World Pop: 6,150,671 (PSG#201) 
22:56:43  <PublicServer> <Vinnie> we did it already :)
22:57:39  <V453000> we could go further :)
22:57:45  <V453000> ML was not needed as large as it was
22:57:57  <V453000> but yeah, some areas were still empty, and what not :)
22:58:09  <PublicServer> <Vinnie> one long map with straight ML
22:58:20  <PublicServer> <Vinnie> saves space on corners
22:59:27  <V453000> lol
23:00:15  <V453000> anyway, does anyone have experience with 17.3'' laptops? I fear it is too large and heavy
23:00:20  <V453000> 3.6kg isnt low
23:00:38  <PublicServer> <Vinnie> not  me
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23:07:08  <mfb-> maybe a future game we shall try to cover all the world with cities, in a industry less temperate map <- 256x256?
23:07:34  <PublicServer> <nicfercoop> no, 2048x2048
23:07:35  <mfb-> better for slower CPUs from some players
23:07:36  <PublicServer> <nicfercoop> lmao
23:07:37  <mfb-> :p
23:07:48  <PublicServer> <Vinnie> by train, or you mean all roads and rv?
23:07:48  <mfb-> k, nicfer1 will finish it
23:08:25  <PublicServer> *** nicfercoop has left the game (connection lost)
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23:12:34  <nicfer> !password
23:12:34  <PublicServer> nicfer: sheave
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23:16:05  <PublicServer> <nicfercoop> I remember there was once a road network game
23:16:07  <PublicServer> <nicfercoop> which was it?
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23:16:41  <PublicServer> <Vinnie> i only know one on the stable server
23:19:30  <V453000> 171 was a RV game for example
23:19:38  <V453000> I think it was 171 at least
23:19:45  <V453000> there were multiple
23:19:51  <V453000> 171 is the most recent
23:20:17  <V453000> http://wiki.openttdcoop.org/images/f/f7/CARnage4999.sav <- RV game.
23:21:05  <pugi> V453000, you've gone to bed 40 minutes ago :D
23:21:28  <V453000> ok sorry :D
23:21:42  <PublicServer> <Vinnie> inception we are in his dream
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23:24:31  <V453000> freaking nightmare :D
23:25:06  <PublicServer> <Vinnie> \
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23:27:09  <V453000> anyway, good night :) FINALLY
23:27:14  <PublicServer> <Vinnie> gn
23:31:56  <nicfer1> !password
23:31:56  <PublicServer> nicfer1: goalie
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23:33:38  <PublicServer> <Vinnie> enough for me to goodnight
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23:35:41  <PublicServer> <nicfercoop> how many TF does V453's plan allow?
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23:44:10  <Sylf> !password
23:44:10  <PublicServer> Sylf: goalie
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