Log for #openttdcoop on 11th January 2012:
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02:01:08  *** sets mode: +o Sylf
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02:47:04  <Mazur> mfb: It's after Epiphany, so the New years wishes might be removed.
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10:23:14  <PublicServer> *** Game still paused (number of players)
10:23:15  <PublicServer> *** persil joined the game
10:23:44  <PublicServer> *** persil has left the game (leaving)
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11:40:08  <Mark> !archive
11:40:08  <PublicServer> Mark: http://www.openttdcoop.ORG/wiki/PublicServer:Archive | |
11:40:15  <Mark> hmm..
11:40:19  <Mark> @op
11:40:19  *** Webster sets mode: +o Mark
11:40:51  <Mark> how do i archive this again..
11:40:54  * Mark is rusty
11:41:49  <Mark> !save
11:41:50  <PublicServer> Saving game...
11:42:40  <Mark> !rcon ls
11:42:40  <PublicServer> Mark: 0) .. (Parent directory)
11:42:40  <PublicServer> Mark: 1) archive/ (Directory)
11:42:40  <PublicServer> Mark: 2) Merry Christmas all!, 2543-08-06.sav
11:42:40  <PublicServer> Mark: 3) File:Merry_xmas_cheated.sav
11:42:40  <PublicServer> Mark: 4) Merry_xmas_cheated.sav
11:42:42  <PublicServer> Mark: 5) psg222start3.sav
11:42:42  <PublicServer> Mark: 6) psg222start2.sav
11:42:44  <PublicServer> Mark: 7) psg221start2.sav
11:42:44  <PublicServer> Mark: 8) PSG proposal 4.sav
11:42:46  <PublicServer> Mark: 9) psg221start1.sav
11:42:46  <PublicServer> Mark: you have 141 more messages
11:43:17  <Mark> !transfer
11:43:17  <PublicServer> Mark: !transfer gamenr save: transfer the save to our web (publicserver)
11:43:23  <bassals> what is the proposal for the 223?
11:43:30  <Mark> ive got it
11:44:31  <Mark> !password
11:44:31  <PublicServer> Mark: sashes
11:45:18  <PublicServer> *** Game still paused (number of players)
11:45:18  <PublicServer> *** Mark joined the game
11:46:50  <Mark> !transfer 222 game.sav
11:46:54  <PublicServer> Mark: PublicServerGame_222_Final.sav
11:46:54  <PublicServer> Mark: Transfer done. (/home/openttd/svn-publicserver/autopilot/save/game.sav->
11:49:24  *** Progman has joined #openttdcoop
11:50:57  <PublicServer> *** Mark has left the game (leaving)
11:51:32  <Mark> !getsave
11:51:34  <PublicServer> Mark: OK :-)
11:51:41  <Mark> !rcon ls
11:51:41  <PublicServer> Mark: 0) .. (Parent directory)
11:51:41  <PublicServer> Mark: 1) archive/ (Directory)
11:51:41  <PublicServer> Mark: 2) psg223_start_mark.sav
11:51:41  <PublicServer> Mark: 3) Merry Christmas all!, 2543-08-06.sav
11:51:41  <PublicServer> Mark: 4) File:Merry_xmas_cheated.sav
11:51:42  <PublicServer> Mark: 5) Merry_xmas_cheated.sav
11:51:42  <PublicServer> Mark: 6) psg222start3.sav
11:51:44  <PublicServer> Mark: 7) psg222start2.sav
11:51:44  <PublicServer> Mark: 8) psg221start2.sav
11:51:46  <PublicServer> Mark: 9) PSG proposal 4.sav
11:51:46  <PublicServer> Mark: you have 142 more messages
11:51:50  <Mark> !rcon load 2
11:51:57  <PublicServer> *** Game paused (number of players)
11:52:15  <Mark> !password
11:52:15  <PublicServer> Mark: sashes
11:52:24  <Mark> !rcon server_pw
11:52:24  <PublicServer> Mark: Current value for 'server_password' is: 'carols'
11:52:43  <PublicServer> *** Game still paused (number of players)
11:52:45  <PublicServer> <Mark> :)
11:52:45  <PublicServer> *** Mark joined the game
11:52:56  <bassals> also the IRC topic
11:53:20  *** Mark changes topic to "Welcome to #openttdcoop, the Cooperative OpenTTD | PSG223 (r23755) | STAGE: MM + Planning | | New players, use @quickstart and !help |"
11:53:30  <Mark> i know, thanks
11:53:42  <Mark> well, knock yourselves out on this one
11:54:38  <PublicServer> *** Game still paused (number of players)
11:54:40  <PublicServer> *** bassals joined the game
11:55:04  <PublicServer> <bassals> this map is not big
11:55:18  <PublicServer> <Mark> no it is not
11:55:38  <PublicServer> <Mark> wanna join so i can do a mm?
11:55:53  <PublicServer> *** bassals has joined company #1
11:55:54  <PublicServer> *** Game unpaused (number of players)
11:57:22  <PublicServer> <bassals> Alberta names?
11:57:26  <PublicServer> <Mark> yes :)
11:57:40  <PublicServer> <bassals> well I only know calgary and edmonton
11:57:54  <PublicServer> <Mark> doesnt look much like alberta, just think the names are funny
12:00:44  <PublicServer> <Mark> oh the town names didnt work..
12:01:02  <PublicServer> <Mark> oh well, good old default then
12:01:05  <PublicServer> <bassals> i see
12:01:16  <PublicServer> <bassals> i like default
12:01:50  <PublicServer> <Mark> 12k, thats not much
12:04:21  <bassals> Mark: i'm afk
12:04:29  <PublicServer> <Mark> k
12:38:50  <PublicServer> *** ostannard joined the game
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12:45:51  *** LoPo has joined #openttdcoop
12:46:33  <LoPo> hiya
12:46:35  <LoPo> !password
12:46:35  <PublicServer> LoPo: aprons
12:46:59  <PublicServer> <V453000> hi
12:47:01  <PublicServer> *** V453000 joined the game
12:47:10  <PublicServer> <Mark> howdy
12:47:33  <sam0737> !clients
12:47:35  <sam0737> !password
12:47:35  <PublicServer> sam0737: aprons
12:47:48  <PublicServer> *** sam0737 joined the game
12:48:07  <PublicServer> <V453000> hm .. why the feeders?
12:48:13  <PublicServer> <Mark> why not
12:48:23  <PublicServer> <Mark> i mean, what else?
12:48:27  <PublicServer> <V453000> normal SL?
12:48:33  <PublicServer> <V453000> or .. almost normal
12:48:36  <PublicServer> <Mark> then ML trains need orders
12:48:50  <PublicServer> <V453000> why would they
12:49:09  <LoPo> !password
12:49:09  <PublicServer> LoPo: sprawl
12:49:10  <PublicServer> <V453000> the SL is the same as a feeder, but just with direct connection
12:49:24  <PublicServer> *** LoPo joined the game
12:49:30  <PublicServer> <Mark> it'd be way harder to let the ML know if trains are needed
12:50:26  <PublicServer> <V453000> that would be the interesting part :)
12:50:28  <PublicServer> <Mark> if you can figure out a way, we'll do that, it's way nicer
12:50:54  <PublicServer> <Mark> actually, it might be possible
12:50:56  <PublicServer> <V453000> I am thinking of some train battery in the overflow, like, say, 10 places for trains
12:50:59  <PublicServer> <Mark> using memory cells
12:51:16  *** StarLite has quit IRC
12:51:25  <PublicServer> <V453000> but that doesnt probably solve anything
12:51:25  <PublicServer> <LoPo> why all the "difficult" things
12:51:45  <PublicServer> <LoPo> if trains are w8ing then the ML Knwos there are no trains needed
12:51:49  <PublicServer> <LoPo> problems solved
12:51:52  <PublicServer> <sam0737> i just wonder how many people do programming to make a living here ;P
12:52:06  <PublicServer> <V453000> yes but the SL also has some lenght LoPo so such mechanism has quite a long delay
12:52:28  <PublicServer> <LoPo> well, make a buffer like you sad :)
12:52:46  <PublicServer> <Mark> you could have dummies triggering memory cells but it'd break if a dummy is full again before a train arrives
12:52:52  <PublicServer> <V453000> that is an option but psg 180 looked more like parking lot that way :D
12:53:02  <PublicServer> <V453000> I see
12:53:12  <PublicServer> <V453000> I bet you could easily prevent that breaking
12:53:12  <PublicServer> <Mark> there must be a way though
12:53:34  <PublicServer> <V453000> you just detect if there is a pickup train coming
12:54:05  <PublicServer> <V453000> hm but that probably isnt the best way to do it I think
12:54:11  <PublicServer> <Mark> you could have a holding bay for, say, 2 trains at every pickup station
12:54:21  <PublicServer> <Mark> and one at the ML
12:54:36  <PublicServer> <V453000> possibly
12:54:38  <PublicServer> <Mark> and let one through as soon as there is only 1 train in the holding bay
12:54:48  <PublicServer> <Mark> that'd compensate for the delay
12:54:52  <PublicServer> <Mark> that'd work probably
12:55:10  <PublicServer> <Mark> and you dont have to set/reset memory cells that way either
12:55:20  <PublicServer> <V453000> I would let that open to builders :) there are certainly multiple ways to reach it
12:55:26  <PublicServer> <Mark> yea
12:55:29  <PublicServer> <Mark> lets do that
12:55:32  <PublicServer> <LoPo> what about a "delayed holding bay" ? :P
12:55:58  <PublicServer> <LoPo> it holds and releases the train OR to the station OR back to ML
12:56:16  <PublicServer> <V453000> w
12:56:23  <PublicServer> <V453000> btw TL5 is a lot for this map :)
12:56:42  <PublicServer> <Mark> yeah...
12:56:48  <PublicServer> <Mark> might make it 2 and 3
12:56:54  <PublicServer> <Mark> or 2 and 4
12:57:08  <PublicServer> <sam0737> sorry how big is this one? 256*256?
12:57:12  <PublicServer> <V453000> yes
12:57:23  <PublicServer> <Mark> there wont be any prio probles because you never have trains of a varying TL joining
12:57:27  <PublicServer> <Mark> problems
12:57:35  <PublicServer> <V453000> I know
12:57:55  <PublicServer> <V453000> drops are in the two ends?
12:58:13  <PublicServer> <Mark> i think so yes
12:59:26  *** StarLite has joined #openttdcoop
13:00:07  <PublicServer> <V453000> why pbs x.x
13:00:13  <PublicServer> <Mark> dunno :P
13:00:24  <PublicServer> <V453000> I also think you need it a tile longer
13:00:28  <PublicServer> <V453000> this wont let TL3 in
13:00:36  <PublicServer> <Mark> its not supposed to
13:00:51  <PublicServer> <V453000> ah TL2
13:01:13  <PublicServer> <LoPo> lol
13:01:15  <PublicServer> <Mark> huh
13:01:17  <PublicServer> <sam0737> huh...
13:01:20  <PublicServer> <V453000> lost trains are a bit .. :)
13:01:38  <PublicServer> <V453000> as I thought, you might need something more than just this
13:01:54  <PublicServer> <V453000> not sure if any penalties will help
13:02:24  <PublicServer> <LoPo> gap is not long enough
13:02:26  <PublicServer> <V453000> needs logic
13:02:28  <PublicServer> <V453000> gap is ok
13:02:42  <PublicServer> <Mark> i dont want logic
13:02:50  <PublicServer> <LoPo> ah
13:02:52  <PublicServer> <Mark> there...
13:02:54  <PublicServer> <LoPo> lost trains
13:02:57  <PublicServer> <V453000> it isnt lost now :)
13:03:08  <PublicServer> <Mark> however, can we put a waypoint somewhere?
13:03:11  <PublicServer> <V453000> well if you put 1 order of a waypoint they can reach, sure
13:03:17  <PublicServer> <V453000> yes I think we can
13:03:31  <PublicServer> <V453000> we can place as many waypoints as we want as long as it is on a place on ML where every train goes
13:03:45  <PublicServer> <V453000> like behind the drop
13:03:56  <PublicServer> <LoPo> may i try something?
13:03:58  <PublicServer> <V453000> or in front of it, where ever
13:04:07  <PublicServer> <Mark> or we could just have them go to the drop
13:04:09  <PublicServer> <V453000> that would even save split logic for the drop
13:04:15  <PublicServer> <V453000> he, or even that
13:04:34  <PublicServer> <Mark> LoPo: go for it
13:05:24  <PublicServer> <V453000> that isnt a pf trap btw :)
13:05:30  <PublicServer> <V453000> now is
13:05:33  <PublicServer> <LoPo> aha!
13:05:39  <PublicServer> <LoPo> ye thx :P
13:05:47  <PublicServer> <LoPo> this seems to work aswell
13:06:01  <PublicServer> <V453000> not sure if that is 100% sure to work though
13:06:15  <PublicServer> <Mark> pf traps tend to make trains go a bit crazy i think
13:06:18  <PublicServer> <V453000> I think that might fail under some circumstances
13:06:28  <PublicServer> <Mark> might be safer to just give them a drop order
13:06:34  <PublicServer> <V453000> yes
13:06:34  <PublicServer> <sam0737> sorry what is this "path finder trap" thingy?
13:06:40  <PublicServer> <LoPo> save save.,.. :P
13:06:42  <PublicServer> <LoPo> comon guys
13:06:56  <PublicServer> <LoPo> it works 2 out of 2 :D
13:07:02  <PublicServer> <LoPo> so 100%
13:07:16  <PublicServer> <V453000> I bet you would find a way where it would break
13:07:31  <PublicServer> <V453000> order is probably better
13:07:33  <PublicServer> <Mark> i'll use TL2 and 3
13:07:39  <PublicServer> <Mark> and a drop order
13:07:41  <PublicServer> <V453000> yes 2 and 3 is good
13:07:51  <PublicServer> <sam0737> oh the pf trap so that the sorter works on lost train now?
13:08:13  <PublicServer> <Mark> makes a train think there's a way around the penalty
13:08:27  <PublicServer> <LoPo> funny still
13:09:01  <PublicServer> <V453000> might not even need penalty
13:09:28  <PublicServer> <sam0737> the TL3 train ahead might have affected the result?
13:09:30  <PublicServer> <V453000> but still, here it works but it isnt a proper solution which would be sure to work everywhere
13:09:52  <PublicServer> <V453000> we can easily check that :)
13:10:10  <PublicServer> <sam0737> cool
13:10:36  <PublicServer> <V453000> but it doesnt matter, not much of a reason why not to add the order
13:10:50  <PublicServer> <Mark> yeah...
13:10:50  <PublicServer> <V453000> if we had multiple drops then it would make sense to have no orders
13:11:00  <PublicServer> <sam0737> but penalty + add order seems to be nicer, stablier, and save much more space IMHO
13:11:03  <PublicServer> <Mark> at least we wont have lost trains running into red twoways and stuff
13:11:16  <PublicServer> <V453000> you can work around that Mark, but still :)
13:11:30  <PublicServer> <Mark> we did in that one game
13:11:36  <PublicServer> <Mark> 14x something
13:11:54  <PublicServer> <V453000> 157?
13:12:00  <PublicServer> <Mark> yea
13:12:02  <PublicServer> <V453000> the metropolis
13:12:12  <PublicServer> <Mark> that was fun :)
13:12:22  <PublicServer> <V453000> when I was on holidays ..
13:12:24  <PublicServer> <V453000> :d
13:12:30  <PublicServer> <Mark> yeah me too i think actually
13:12:33  <PublicServer> <Mark> just made the plan
13:12:49  <PublicServer> <V453000> :)
13:13:25  <PublicServer> <V453000> good good I will have to do some cleaning up here, cya later :)
13:13:32  <PublicServer> *** V453000 has left the game (leaving)
13:13:34  <PublicServer> <Mark> enjoy
13:13:34  <PublicServer> <Mark> cya
13:13:41  <PublicServer> <Mark> i need more coffee
13:13:47  <V453000> I certainly wont enjoy that :D but thanks
13:16:06  *** Tray has joined #openttdcoop
13:16:53  <PublicServer> <LoPo> lol
13:17:00  <PublicServer> <sam0737> why it would go thru a long way @@
13:17:02  <PublicServer> <LoPo> stupid train
13:19:59  <PublicServer> <sam0737> what's the PF thinking.
13:19:59  <PublicServer> <LoPo> i think
13:19:59  <PublicServer> <LoPo> he want to get onto !this track
13:19:59  <PublicServer> <sam0737> made it non lost, added penalty, and see how it goes...
13:19:59  <PublicServer> <sam0737> now "smarter"
13:20:00  <PublicServer> <LoPo> ofc, it wants to go to the waypoint
13:20:00  <PublicServer> <sam0737> seems "lost" train to be having some kind of implicit destination? like the inner track..or it's just random and happened to be the inner track
13:20:00  <PublicServer> <LoPo> not sure
13:20:00  <PublicServer> <LoPo> i think there are 2 things
13:20:00  <PublicServer> <LoPo> the "looking"pathfinder
13:20:01  <PublicServer> <LoPo> and the "actual driving over" PF
13:20:19  <PublicServer> <LoPo> going straight ahead gives the least penalty
13:20:43  <PublicServer> <LoPo> but he is always looking for a shorter path
13:20:49  <PublicServer> <LoPo> so... :P
13:21:03  <PublicServer> <sam0737> if it's like what you said, it shouldn't remember the need of going back to the inner should just look ahead
13:22:13  <PublicServer> <LoPo> why he takes the PFT tracks is because he saw that that _is_  shorter somehow i think
13:22:32  <PublicServer> <LoPo> shorter and les penalty
13:22:54  <PublicServer> <sam0737> i added some normal signal to the loop
13:23:25  <PublicServer> <sam0737> remove that crossing segment shouldn't we?
13:24:11  <PublicServer> <LoPo> haha "{
13:24:30  <PublicServer> <sam0737> ya see one more time with this
13:24:36  <PublicServer> <LoPo> k
13:25:14  <PublicServer> <sam0737> the signals!
13:25:44  <PublicServer> <sam0737> seems the signals cost more than the tracks....?.
13:26:22  <PublicServer> <LoPo> hmmm
13:26:33  <PublicServer> <LoPo> signals also give _some_  penalty
13:26:47  <PublicServer> <LoPo> but only 10 orso
13:26:49  <PublicServer> <sam0737> give some but i don't expect a green one give a lot
13:27:07  <PublicServer> <sam0737> ok i give up guessing...let see if it could be explained in the source code..
13:27:21  <PublicServer> <LoPo> :P
13:27:24  <PublicServer> <LoPo> gl
13:28:14  <PublicServer> <sam0737> usually how long do we need for MM/Planning? i mean usually when do we vote and build?
13:28:28  <PublicServer> <Mark> when were done
13:28:30  <PublicServer> <LoPo> few days
13:28:41  <PublicServer> <LoPo> when there are enough nice plans :)
13:28:55  <PublicServer> <sam0737> that's for sure :)
13:28:55  <PublicServer> <Mark> when there's a convincing winner
13:29:10  <PublicServer> <Mark> could be anywhere between 3 hours and 3 days
13:29:17  <PublicServer> <Mark> or even outside it
13:29:31  <PublicServer> <sam0737> ah ha-
13:31:23  <PublicServer> <Mark> right, i win
13:31:25  <PublicServer> <Mark> lets build
13:31:35  <PublicServer> * Mark is bored shitless
13:31:47  <PublicServer> <sam0737> lol
13:32:14  <PublicServer> <sam0737> where are the drop stations btw?
13:32:32  <PublicServer> <Mark> where?
13:32:38  <PublicServer> <Mark> i mean, what?
13:32:40  <PublicServer> <LoPo> vote? :P
13:32:59  <PublicServer> <LoPo> they are right there Sam0737
13:33:09  <PublicServer> <LoPo> look at the tracks
13:33:27  <PublicServer> <LoPo> Full ones going through station to emptyies
13:33:49  <PublicServer> <Mark> is fullies a word?
13:34:01  <PublicServer> <LoPo> in dutch it is ;)
13:34:15  <PublicServer> <Mark> not where im from
13:34:30  <PublicServer> <LoPo> ... ofc it's not a word
13:34:50  <PublicServer> <Mark> i just made it one
13:35:16  <PublicServer> <sam0737> so we will just fund a power plant and sawmill?
13:35:26  <PublicServer> <Mark> yeah
13:38:02  <PublicServer> *** LoPo has joined spectators
13:38:11  <PublicServer> *** LoPo has left the game (leaving)
13:39:44  <PublicServer> <Mark> tl1?
13:39:47  <PublicServer> <Mark> are you on drugs?
13:40:49  <PublicServer> <Mark> might be a challange to fit 4000 of them on this map
13:43:43  <PublicServer> *** Mark has left the game (leaving)
13:56:39  <PublicServer> *** ostannard has left the game (leaving)
14:19:51  <Tray> !password
14:19:52  <PublicServer> Tray: curter
14:20:32  <PublicServer> *** Tray joined the game
14:23:15  <PublicServer> *** Mark joined the game
14:34:06  <PublicServer> *** Tray has left the game (connection lost)
14:34:08  *** Tray has quit IRC
14:43:11  <Mark> just put my mobile phone in the washing machine for 2 hours, then put it in the dryer and then threw it against a wall
14:43:14  <Mark> all by accident
14:43:17  <Mark> and its still working
14:43:43  <PublicServer> <sam0737> what model?
14:43:44  <Mark> try that with your iphone
14:43:49  <Mark> some 5 year old samsung
14:44:23  <PublicServer> *** XeryusTC joined the game
14:44:27  <Mark> here he is
14:44:36  <XeryusTC> tiny map is tiny :o
14:44:49  <Mark> could be tinier
14:44:53  <hylje> 256x256?
14:44:56  <Mark> yea
14:45:07  <PublicServer> *** Mark has joined company #1
14:45:17  <hylje> wasn't TTO 64x64 erry day?
14:45:29  <PublicServer> <XeryusTC> TTD was 256x256
14:45:29  <Mark> nah..
14:45:33  <Mark> 64 is nothing
14:45:40  <PublicServer> <sam0737> TTD 256x256.
14:45:58  <PublicServer> <XeryusTC> also, internet sensorship has hit the dutchlands :(
14:46:05  <Mark> wtf?
14:46:07  <Mark> how?
14:46:29  <PublicServer> <XeryusTC> xs4all and ziggo have to block the pirate bay for their costumers
14:46:41  <PublicServer> <sam0737> ah ha.
14:46:43  <PublicServer> <XeryusTC> Stichting brein has won some kind of silly court case
14:46:54  <Mark> "the great firewall of holland"
14:46:57  <XeryusTC>
14:46:58  <Webster> Title: Ziggo en Xs4all moeten The Pirate Bay blokkeren | Pro | Nieuws (at
14:47:29  <hylje> "the difference in liberty between the Netherlands and China is that Chinese liberty is improving!"
14:47:46  <PublicServer> <sam0737> i don't think so..
14:48:04  <PublicServer> <sam0737> China GFW can now detect and block new Tor bridge in minutes
14:48:14  <hylje> they already have it pretty bad
14:48:50  <PublicServer> <XeryusTC> just to point out, big companies are making anti-piracy legislation behind closed doors anyway
14:49:08  <PublicServer> *** XeryusTC has left the game (leaving)
14:49:25  <PublicServer> <sam0737> or by using the  "think of the children" excuse..
14:50:00  <Mark> but why just xs4all and ziggo...
14:50:21  <XeryusTC> because brein started the court case against them :o
14:50:26  <hylje> closed doors is endemic of representational government which allows closed doors to begin with
14:53:18  <sam0737> !clients
14:55:44  <Mark> ive got ziggo and i can still get to the pirate bay
14:55:52  <Mark> oh theyve got 10 days
14:56:19  <PublicServer> <sam0737> did the court specified how it should be blocked? just DNS poisioning which can be worked around with
14:56:29  <PublicServer> <sam0737> or packet inspection and blocking the URL?
15:00:47  <Mark> denying customers acces to 3 pirate bay ip adresses
15:01:10  <Mark> is all it says
15:03:20  <sam0737> hm the google translation is not exactly clear but seems that...
15:03:40  <sam0737> in the future - Brien could provide the new IP/Domain that links to the TPB and those ISP must comply in 10 days.
15:03:52  <sam0737> if wrong IP/Domain is provided, Brien is held liable..
15:03:54  *** sla_ro|master has quit IRC
15:04:24  <sam0737> anyway. one TPB down - there are still a lot BT search/hash directories...
15:05:07  <Mark> finding torrents is no problem
15:05:15  <XeryusTC> the problem is not blocking one site
15:05:17  <Mark> its more about the principle of censorship
15:05:24  <XeryusTC> the problem is that it is the start of internet censorship
15:05:25  <sam0737> still far from China :P
15:05:28  <^Spike^> the problem is where does the blocking end
15:05:36  <^Spike^> it's a start
15:05:40  <XeryusTC> even more so than the law that is being forged behind closed doors
15:05:56  <^Spike^> we criticize china for "the great firewall" now we're starting our own
15:06:00  <^Spike^> ACTA
15:07:00  <PublicServer> <sam0737> then vote that party/government away next time...
15:07:10  <PublicServer> <sam0737> the thing is general public don't care enough..
15:07:13  <PublicServer> <sam0737> yet
15:07:32  <Mark> justice is supposed to be unrelated to government
15:07:35  <hylje> corporate interests can get backroom deals with any party, sam0737
15:08:09  <^Spike^> and it doesn't stolve the problem
15:08:12  <XeryusTC> shove enough money into parlament and you'll get your laws
15:08:13  <^Spike^> in the end
15:08:19  <^Spike^> it's just pulling up a smoke screen
15:08:23  <hylje> it's a fundamentally uphill battle to organize a general public against secret dealings
15:08:45  <^Spike^> it's like a big accident happend infront of your door and all you do it close the curtains and say: There is nothing going on outside
15:08:53  <^Spike^> is close*
15:09:27  <sam0737> sigh. all goes back to the money...
15:09:37  <^Spike^> yepz
15:10:22  <hylje> and piracy isn't a big accident, it's more like a riot
15:10:35  <hylje> a riot where nothing is broken and no one is hurt
15:11:35  <^Spike^> and still the ppl BREIN supports are artists/movie makers...
15:11:41  <^Spike^> in NL there is nothing against downloading those
15:12:07  <sam0737> agree. people that do pirate won't buy the genuine anyway - or these two sectors don't overlap much
15:12:09  <^Spike^> so blocking 1 site doesn't help that much and blocks something that is legal to download in NL
15:12:16  <^Spike^> ehm...
15:12:24  <hylje> sam0737: or they do pirate and then buy because they like it
15:12:29  <^Spike^> yepz
15:12:34  <sam0737> ya-
15:12:35  <^Spike^> that is what happens here
15:12:42  <^Spike^> see if something is what i expect of it
15:12:48  <^Spike^> if not i delete it
15:13:29  <sam0737> i think that's what microsoft feebies/free licenses with the DreamingSpark / WebsiteSpark program
15:13:49  <^Spike^> and new games also learn: Microtransactions
15:13:56  <^Spike^> for only games that works
15:14:02  <hylje> DLC DLC DLC
15:14:09  <^Spike^> or just look @ TF2
15:14:14  <^Spike^> it's not even DLC
15:14:16  <hylje> hat fortress 2
15:14:24  <sam0737> prehaps that would work for TTD :P DLC for eye candy stations/NewGRF lol
15:14:26  <^Spike^> i mean the idea behind it
15:14:29  <^Spike^> not the hat stuff :)
15:16:12  <sam0737> btw what decides the map size and industries set for each new game? random or determined by members~?
15:16:17  <PublicServer> <Mark> plane down
15:16:21  <hylje> coop members do
15:16:23  <Mark> the creator decides
15:16:32  <Mark> i did in this case
15:16:50  <hylje> someone comes up with a start savegame and we load that
15:16:59  <Mark> maximum acceptable size is 1m tiles
15:17:06  <Mark> uhm
15:17:08  <Mark> 256k
15:17:27  <hylje> 512x512 or equivalent dimensions
15:18:05  <sam0737> ic
15:18:30  <Mark> anyone can make a map and have a member approve of it
15:18:37  <XeryusTC> the problem is that it is more hassle to walk to the store, get your bank card and pay for stuff
15:18:56  <XeryusTC> it is just easier to go online, enter a few keywords in the search and start downloading
15:19:03  <hylje> yep
15:19:13  <Mark> itunes store...
15:19:17  <XeryusTC> i have bought loads of games on steam because it is so much easier than downloading
15:19:23  <Mark> its not the hassle, its just the fact you have to pay for it :P
15:19:34  <XeryusTC> for some games it didnt actually even occur to me that i could also just torrent them
15:19:42  <sam0737> well ya android/google/apple/itunes made the payment real easy.
15:19:43  <hylje> i think nobody deserves to be paid after their work is done, they should arrange for the payment before they start working
15:19:47  <XeryusTC> and i happily spend like 10 euros on them
15:19:59  <hylje> because that's how it worked for everybody before we came up with copyright to muddle the waters
15:20:21  <hylje> and still works like that for everybody not lucky enough to work in a copyright-encumbered field
15:20:30  <Mark> that doesnt really work for entertainment though
15:20:34  <hylje> sure works
15:20:45  <Mark> you dont know how popular it's going to be in advance
15:20:52  <hylje> that's business for you
15:21:05  <hylje> you need to have a good product and good business sense to succeed
15:21:07  <XeryusTC> the problem is that you always have to invest before you can earn money
15:21:27  <XeryusTC> but tbh hollywood should start thinking about better digital distribution methods
15:21:38  <XeryusTC> instead of trying to fight the drm free piracy
15:21:40  <Mark> XeryusTC: hardly true for artists
15:21:44  <hylje> every business needs to invest before earning
15:22:13  <sam0737> what i hate most is I get a non-skippable anti-piracy Ad when I already paid for a freaking Disc..
15:22:13  <hylje> i'm saying that coming up with knowledge and arts isn't special, people just pretend they are because current legislation is more profitable than it should be
15:22:35  <sam0737> and I don't every need to watch that shxt if I had pirate it...
15:22:59  <XeryusTC> Mark: you need to pay the studio and the engineers, the cd pressing company, distribution companies etc before an album even makes it to the store
15:23:36  <XeryusTC> sam0737: ? :P
15:23:57  <Mark> well, someone has to pay, of course, not neccesarily the artist though
15:24:26  <hylje> today you can come up with perfectly decent stuff with a laptop and 100 euro worth of peripherals
15:24:28  <sam0737> LOL.
15:24:43  <hylje> if you're good, people will pay you for fancier productions
15:25:02  <hylje> because they want more of your stuff
15:25:07  <hylje> or in a better quality
15:25:23  <hylje> stuff that you haven't made yet and are perfectly free to not make if the terms don't meet your requirements
15:25:50  <hylje> as in
15:25:52  <hylje> normal work
15:28:52  <sam0737> oh didn't notice that they added a flare animation when plane lands~~
15:30:42  <PublicServer> <Mark> did they?
15:31:04  <PublicServer> <sam0737> and the angle of attack / climbing animation
15:31:18  <PublicServer> <sam0737> not exactly an animation...another sprite i mean
15:31:24  <PublicServer> <Mark> thats just the newgrf
15:31:24  <PublicServer> <Mark> av8
15:31:31  <PublicServer> <Mark> i think
15:31:58  <PublicServer> <Mark> we need realistic sized airports imo
15:32:01  <PublicServer> <Mark> 30 tile runways
15:32:03  <PublicServer> <sam0737> definitely need the grf support but i guess it involves some state machine in the game logic to call that sprite
15:32:04  <Webster> Read the Quickstart - #openttdcoop Wiki - (again, try !grf)
15:32:35  <PublicServer> <Mark> if you say so :P
15:32:57  <PublicServer> *** {TWerkhoven[l]} joined the game
15:34:45  <PublicServer> <Mark> why does the mail plane say reverse coloured?
15:34:52  <PublicServer> <Mark> (in the details window)
15:35:03  <PublicServer> <sam0737> it's one of the refit options
15:35:17  <PublicServer> <Mark> its not reversed coloured though :P
15:35:23  <PublicServer> <sam0737> i was expecting reversed color too...
15:35:31  <PublicServer> <sam0737> disappointed.
15:35:37  <PublicServer> <Mark> oh right
15:35:39  <PublicServer> <Mark> now it is
15:35:54  <PublicServer> <Mark> pink tail
15:35:56  <PublicServer> <sam0737> ha. yellow doesn't have a reverse color?
15:36:10  <PublicServer> <Mark> well.. the reverse of "yellow and yellow" is...
15:36:28  <PublicServer> <sam0737> oh.
15:37:33  <PublicServer> <sam0737> ah ha they have added that many optinos there..
15:37:55  <PublicServer> <Mark> thats been there for ages
15:38:06  <PublicServer> <Mark> 2 years at least :P
15:38:12  <PublicServer> <sam0737> dual color?--
15:38:14  <PublicServer> <Mark> yeah
15:38:21  <PublicServer> <Mark> just not every newgrf supports it
15:38:23  <PublicServer> <sam0737> 2 years?! can't be..
15:38:37  <PublicServer> <Mark> was there before i left to oz :P
15:38:43  <PublicServer> <Mark> which is 2 years ago
15:39:53  <PublicServer> <sam0737> hm-may be I  really didn't ottd for ageszz
15:44:14  <LoPo> !players
15:44:16  <PublicServer> LoPo: Client 1116 is TWerkhoven[l], a spectator
15:44:16  <PublicServer> LoPo: Client 1048 (Orange) is bassals, in company 1 (Dutbridge Transport)
15:44:17  <PublicServer> LoPo: Client 1098 (Orange) is Mark, in company 1 (Dutbridge Transport)
15:44:17  <PublicServer> LoPo: Client 1066 (Orange) is sam0737, in company 1 (Dutbridge Transport)
15:45:42  <PublicServer> *** TWerkhoven[l] has left the game (leaving)
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15:46:50  <PublicServer> *** ostannard has left the game (leaving)
16:01:28  *** TWerkhoven[l] has quit IRC
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16:12:24  <Maraxus> !password
16:12:24  <PublicServer> Maraxus: jested
16:12:42  <PublicServer> *** Maraxus joined the game
16:12:51  <PublicServer> *** Maraxus has joined company #1
16:12:59  <PublicServer> <Maraxus> hi
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16:20:18  <bassals> gotta go
16:20:21  <bassals> goodbye
16:20:31  <PublicServer> *** bassals has joined spectators
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16:53:16  <PublicServer> *** Maraxus has left the game (leaving)
16:57:08  *** collinp is now known as Guest23713
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17:08:03  <sam0737> !players
17:08:06  <PublicServer> sam0737: Client 1098 (Orange) is Mark, in company 1 (Dutbridge Transport)
17:08:06  <PublicServer> sam0737: Client 1066 (Orange) is sam0737, in company 1 (Dutbridge Transport)
17:14:21  <Tray> !password
17:14:21  <PublicServer> Tray: hither
17:14:42  <PublicServer> *** Tray joined the game
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17:39:49  <PublicServer> *** Mark has left the game (connection lost)
17:41:38  *** [1]Mark has joined #openttdcoop
17:41:55  *** Mark is now known as Guest23723
17:42:03  <Maraxus> !password
17:42:03  <PublicServer> Maraxus: duping
17:42:20  <PublicServer> *** Maraxus joined the game
17:43:07  <PublicServer> <sam0737> gtg
17:46:33  <PublicServer> *** sam0737 has left the game (leaving)
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18:07:38  *** Chris_Booth has joined #openttdcoop
18:14:49  <PublicServer> *** Tray has left the game (leaving)
18:14:50  <PublicServer> *** Game paused (number of players)
18:16:41  <PublicServer> *** Game still paused (number of players)
18:16:42  <PublicServer> *** Game unpaused (number of players)
18:16:42  <PublicServer> *** Chris Booth joined the game
18:17:54  <[1]Mark> !password
18:17:54  <PublicServer> [1]Mark: oddity
18:18:03  <PublicServer> *** Mark joined the game
18:18:14  <PublicServer> <Chris Booth> hi Maraxus
18:18:16  <PublicServer> <Chris Booth> mark
18:18:22  <PublicServer> <Chris Booth> I like the look of yoru SRNW plan
18:18:24  <PublicServer> <Mark> hello boothus
18:18:34  <PublicServer> <Mark> :)
18:18:36  <PublicServer> <Mark> thanks
18:18:38  <Maraxus> hi Chris
18:18:56  <PublicServer> <Chris Booth> not sure about TL1
18:19:10  *** [1]Mark is now known as Mark
18:19:14  <Mark> me neither
18:19:24  <PublicServer> <Chris Booth> is ML 1 track each to start?
18:19:39  <PublicServer> <Chris Booth> or you realt want RR5RR?
18:19:46  <PublicServer> <Mark> i really want RR5RR
18:20:04  <PublicServer> <Mark> RR5RR10RR5RR to be precise
18:20:22  <PublicServer> <Chris Booth> yes thats 28 tiles on this small map
18:20:44  <PublicServer> <Mark> yeah
18:21:44  <PublicServer> <Chris Booth> i guess you are not fussed on TF then?
18:21:58  <PublicServer> <Mark> why?
18:22:09  <PublicServer> <Mark> its not like you need long diagonal stretches with TL2/3
18:22:29  <PublicServer> <Chris Booth> no ,but some sections of the map are not 28 tiles wide
18:22:39  <PublicServer> <Chris Booth> check !17
18:23:06  <PublicServer> <Mark> doesnt matter if it varies a bit
18:23:09  <PublicServer> <Mark> theyre just guidelines
18:23:11  <PublicServer> <Chris Booth> ok
18:23:13  <PublicServer> <Mark> like always, really
18:23:35  <PublicServer> <Mark> i dont care if there's 5 or 15 tiles between mainlines, its just to keep some space between them to allow for easier construction
18:24:25  <PublicServer> <Chris Booth> I guess the drops will be at Dafingford and Little Prinnington
18:24:40  <PublicServer> <Mark> around there yea
18:25:14  <PublicServer> <Chris Booth> one last thing, what are we going to do @ !here
18:25:32  <PublicServer> <Chris Booth> do we go east? or cross at that narrow point?
18:25:40  <PublicServer> <Mark> one ML on either side of the bay i think
18:25:46  <PublicServer> <Chris Booth> ok
18:27:31  <Mazur> What's this lark with NewGRF mismatch on the BK tunnel set?  If there's a new one, why doesn;t bananas have it?
18:28:19  <Mazur> Am I supposed to delete the version I have?
18:29:47  <Mazur> Anyone?
18:29:57  <Mazur> Oi
18:29:59  <Maraxus> it should be in the openttd grfpack afaik
18:35:29  <Mazur> That helps.
18:35:49  <PublicServer> *** Mazur joined the game
18:36:00  <hylje> some newgrfs are a copyright clusterfuck so no bananas for those
18:36:24  <Mazur> Even the ottdc_grrfpack ones.
18:36:30  <hylje> especially those
18:36:34  <Mazur> Aha.
18:36:36  <PublicServer> <Mark> dbset
18:36:42  <PublicServer> <Mark> for example
18:37:36  <PublicServer> <Chris Booth> dbset, if I ever met MB I would click in the nads so hard!
18:40:42  <PublicServer> *** Mark has left the game (connection lost)
18:40:49  <Mark> wtf
18:41:36  <PublicServer> *** Mazur has left the game (leaving)
18:44:08  <PublicServer> *** Chris Booth has left the game (leaving)
18:44:08  <PublicServer> *** Game paused (number of players)
18:46:02  <Mark> !password
18:46:02  <PublicServer> Mark: apples
18:46:09  <PublicServer> *** Game still paused (number of players)
18:46:09  <PublicServer> *** Game unpaused (number of players)
18:46:10  <PublicServer> *** Mark joined the game
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19:19:21  <Tray> !password
19:19:21  <PublicServer> Tray: hanger
19:19:40  <PublicServer> *** Tray joined the game
19:23:00  <PublicServer> <Tray> the TL splitter could break very easily by some penalty fuckup
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19:51:42  <PublicServer> <Mark> then we'll fix it :)
19:51:53  <PublicServer> <Mark> oh that was 30mins ago
19:52:51  <PublicServer> <Mark> we could raise the penalty for reversed pbs signals
19:52:58  <PublicServer> <Mark> or use a station
19:53:32  <PublicServer> <Mark> we'll need more penalty than this anyway because the detour will be quite long and trains will be forced through a station
20:01:18  *** valhallasw has joined #openttdcoop
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20:40:35  <Tray> Mark, what do you think about that reverser schematic? it should solve all penalty issues.
20:49:28  <V453000> would have to make reversers on ML? :D
20:50:11  <V453000> I rather think that you can make a pf trap leading to the drop directly - so trains like going to that SL
20:52:59  <Tray> That's right.
20:54:40  <V453000> reversers on ML arent too right :p possible but .. ugh
21:09:34  <PublicServer> *** Tray has left the game (leaving)
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21:14:48  <Chris_Booth> V453000: is right have a central PF trap like the SML Self Reg PF trap Pax game
21:15:18  <Chris_Booth> or in the case of marks plan 2 PF traps
21:17:05  *** sane has joined #openttdcoop
21:17:10  <sane> !password
21:17:10  <PublicServer> sane: spurns
21:18:02  <PublicServer> *** Player has changed his/her name to sane
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21:28:28  <LoPo> !password
21:28:28  <PublicServer> LoPo: hauled
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21:55:57  <andy|p> !password
21:55:57  <PublicServer> andy|p: hemmed
21:56:04  <PublicServer> *** Game still paused (number of players)
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22:00:04  <V453000> Chris_Booth: yes, that is basically what I said
22:00:24  <PublicServer> <andyp> need me to stay on Mark?
22:00:26  <Chris_Booth> yes I saw, and I fully agree
22:01:02  <PublicServer> *** andyp has left the game (leaving)
22:01:02  <PublicServer> *** Game paused (number of players)
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22:29:18  *** ChanServ sets mode: +o mfb-
22:29:22  <mfb-> hi
22:29:24  <mfb-> new game :)
22:30:20  <Chris_Booth> no old game, replayed :O
22:31:44  <mfb-> !password
22:31:45  <PublicServer> mfb-: shrewd
22:31:56  <PublicServer> *** Game still paused (number of players)
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22:32:11  <PublicServer> <mfb> oh, small map
22:32:33  <Chris_Booth> not a bad thing
22:32:42  <Chris_Booth> means lots of fun in short time
22:32:47  <Chris_Booth> and map covered in rails
22:41:23  *** LoPo has quit IRC
22:43:29  <mfb-> hmm interesting 3rd from V at the drop
22:43:40  <mfb-> next time the same thing with all features :D
22:46:01  *** Chris_Booth has quit IRC
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22:55:35  <PublicServer> <mfb> the TL splitter breaks down for small train distances
22:56:25  *** pugi has quit IRC
23:01:43  <PublicServer> <mfb> oh
23:02:09  <PublicServer> <mfb> how did that happen?
23:04:02  <mfb-> !rcon set plane_crashes 0
23:08:43  <PublicServer> *** mfb has left the game (leaving)
23:08:43  <PublicServer> *** Game paused (number of players)
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23:32:16  <PublicServer> *** Game still paused (number of players)
23:32:18  <PublicServer> *** Brumi joined the game
23:32:22  <PublicServer> <Brumi> hello
23:32:34  <PublicServer> <Brumi> hmm small map?
23:41:41  *** Skasi has joined #openttdcoop
23:41:47  <Skasi> !passwprd
23:41:51  <Skasi> !password
23:41:51  <PublicServer> Skasi: redone
23:44:28  <PublicServer> *** Game still paused (number of players)
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23:46:14  <PublicServer> <Skasi> small!
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