Log for #openttdcoop on 27th March 2012:
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08:02:56  <Hazzard> Do we have a netsplit?
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08:04:13  *** sets mode: +vo PublicServer hylje
08:04:20  <Hazzard> aparently
08:04:24  <Hazzard> !players
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08:06:11  <PublicServer> Hazzard: pong
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08:11:28  <Hazzard_> !password
08:11:30  <PublicServer> Hazzard_: lushes
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08:28:23  <V453000> !password assword
08:28:23  <PublicServer> V453000: lushes
08:28:31  <PublicServer> *** Game still paused (number of players)
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08:28:33  <PublicServer> <V453000> hi
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08:28:37  <PublicServer> <Hazzard> Hello
08:29:07  <PublicServer> <Hazzard> What are the helicopters for?
08:29:17  <PublicServer> <V453000> nothing
08:29:27  <PublicServer> <Hazzard> Eyecandy?
08:29:45  <PublicServer> <V453000> same as feeders
08:29:45  <PublicServer> <V453000> just cause
08:29:56  <PublicServer> <Hazzard> ._.
08:30:45  <Rhamphoryncus> people get bored just using trains all the time
08:31:12  <PublicServer> <V453000> I dont think everyone knows everything about trains yet
08:33:30  <planetmaker> Rhamphoryncus: that's why we (very) occasionally do RV-only games :-)
08:34:01  <PublicServer> <V453000> on average of one in ... 30 games :)
08:34:41  <planetmaker> that often? :-)
08:36:36  <Rhamphoryncus> What, no aircraft-only games?  *g*
08:36:47  <PublicServer> <V453000> wtf :-D
08:37:01  <Rhamphoryncus> Actually, aircraft-only for secondaries?  That might work..
08:37:09  <PublicServer> <V453000> I believe an aircraft only game just cant be interesting
08:37:11  <PublicServer> <Hazzard> I still need those self regulating boat networks
08:37:50  <Rhamphoryncus> Hazzard: I might be able to pull that with FIRS, with ratings set to 100%
08:39:16  <Rhamphoryncus> V453000: I agree.  It'd be amusing as a 2-day thing
08:39:16  <PublicServer> <V453000> feature for noobs :) the 100%
08:39:16  <Rhamphoryncus> I disagree.  It lets you use different behaviours as you don't always need a spare train loading
08:39:16  <PublicServer> <V453000> what else would you do then
08:39:16  <PublicServer> <V453000> than train always loading
08:39:17  <PublicServer> <V453000> or train often enough loading
08:39:32  <Rhamphoryncus> Try to load, if you get anything you wait for a full load.  Otherwise move on
08:39:54  <Rhamphoryncus> Which would work for boats
08:40:06  <PublicServer> <V453000> that is viable with normal station rating mechanism as well
08:40:37  <Rhamphoryncus> You'll end up with fairly low ratings, due to the gap between the train/boat leaving and the next one chancing by
08:40:47  <PublicServer> <V453000> the difference is that with always 100% you only care about the final throughput, not about quality of service
08:40:57  <PublicServer> <V453000> no you dont have to end up with low ratings
08:41:08  <PublicServer> <V453000> they will probably be lower than full load, but not terrible
08:41:11  <PublicServer> <V453000> if done well
08:41:49  <Rhamphoryncus> Last game I got 67% for boats doing full load.  How much lower will they be without it?
08:41:58  <PublicServer> <V453000> boats are retarded
08:42:01  <Rhamphoryncus> I think around 50%
08:42:04  <PublicServer> <V453000> do trains
08:42:16  <Rhamphoryncus> You'll make Hazzard cry.
08:42:44  <PublicServer> <V453000> I doubt he would disagree with such statement
08:42:46  *** valhallasw has quit IRC
08:42:46  <PublicServer> <Hazzard> Just adjust the boat bonus
08:44:43  <planetmaker> using boats on a water map is awesome really
08:44:54  <planetmaker> it's fun and looks amazing
08:45:08  <PublicServer> <V453000> I would disagree with both points
08:45:10  <PublicServer> <V453000> but meh
08:47:17  <Ammler> the most annoying part of ships is that they don't crash
08:47:32  <planetmaker> oh, in a YACD+FIRS game with andy and Terkhen they served and excellent part in the network
08:47:40  <planetmaker> Avoiding also to TF large parts of the map
08:47:45  <PublicServer> <V453000> lets not talk about YACD :p
08:48:29  <planetmaker> yes, it's too cpu-hungry :-(
08:49:05  <PublicServer> <V453000> I think the whole concept makes the game just worse as basically stations do the same job as hubs, but they do it simplier and better and you have to do less messing with it
08:50:03  <PublicServer> <V453000> so I think it ruins networking games, if you want to use the yacd actually
08:50:15  <planetmaker> it gives the game a whole new dimension and drastically increases the need to actually build a network
08:50:28  <PublicServer> <V453000> but why would you do that
08:50:42  <PublicServer> <V453000> web of point to point stations works the same way
08:51:09  <PublicServer> <Hazzard> I gtg now
08:51:16  <PublicServer> <V453000> see you
08:51:18  <planetmaker> building good networks thus becomes more difficult (--> more fun) and you got a purpose where to expand your network to (--> also more fun)
08:51:27  <CornishPasty> pew pew
08:51:32  <PublicServer> *** Hazzard has left the game (connection lost)
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08:51:59  <PublicServer> <V453000> more difficult, perhaps, but it doesnt require you to build the network in the first place
08:52:11  <V453000> !unpause
08:52:11  <PublicServer> *** V453000 has unpaused the server. (Use !auto to set it back.)
08:52:13  <PublicServer> *** Game unpaused (number of players)
08:52:27  <planetmaker> 10:51 PublicServer: <V453000> more difficult, perhaps, but it doesnt require you to build the network in the first place <-- that statement is simply wrong
08:52:35  <PublicServer> <V453000> it isnt
08:52:49  <PublicServer> <V453000> really, why would you build a network
08:52:59  <PublicServer> <V453000> a hub is a place where cargo gets redistributed to different parts of map
08:53:00  <planetmaker> why do you now build a network?
08:53:04  <PublicServer> <V453000> if the station does the same
08:53:14  <PublicServer> <V453000> because point to point doesnt help here
08:55:47  <PublicServer> <V453000> but with yacd stations do everything for you
08:55:47  <planetmaker> and you think it helps when playing yacd?
08:55:47  <Rhamphoryncus> Are you talking about YACD or cargodist?
08:55:47  <PublicServer> <V453000> yes
08:55:47  <PublicServer> <V453000> absolute
08:55:47  <PublicServer> <V453000> ly
08:55:47  <planetmaker> where each industry has ~5 destinations?
08:55:47  <planetmaker> loool
08:55:47  <Ammler> planetmaker: you basically move cargo from one station to another
08:55:47  <PublicServer> <V453000> you make a web of stations and it goes where it needs or wants
08:55:47  <PublicServer> <V453000> yes as Ammler said
08:55:47  <Ammler> you do not use the network for trains
08:55:47  <PublicServer> <V453000> most efficient way to play YACD
08:55:47  <Ammler> a "hub" is a big statio
08:55:47  <Rhamphoryncus> Sounds more realistic.  Clearly bad then. ;)
08:55:47  <planetmaker> as said, you need to make a good network
08:55:47  <PublicServer> <V453000> but why would you make it
08:55:47  <Ammler> well, it is another gamestyle, can be worse or better
08:55:47  <PublicServer> <V453000> really
08:55:47  <planetmaker> And not like now, direct everything to where you decided to route it
08:55:47  <PublicServer> <V453000> yes
08:55:47  <PublicServer> <V453000> so imagine you have a hub
08:55:47  <planetmaker> which is on the PS usually multipoint to one point. Always
08:55:48  <PublicServer> <V453000> and coal on one side, powerplants on other sides
08:56:03  <PublicServer> <V453000> so now you realize you need to send some amount of coal to one, some to other
08:56:03  <planetmaker> then 10 coal want to go there.
08:56:09  <PublicServer> <V453000> yes
08:56:14  <planetmaker> a clear case for a dedicated coal line >:-)
08:56:19  <PublicServer> <V453000> so what you do is manage train counts and where they go
08:56:32  <planetmaker> you don't manage train counts now?
08:56:35  <planetmaker> and where they go?
08:56:37  <Ammler> basically yacd depreciates firs
08:56:40  <PublicServer> <V453000> not really
08:56:44  <planetmaker> of course you do
08:56:48  <Ammler> you have simply just a lot more different cargo
08:56:54  <PublicServer> <V453000> yes but you do one, not 3 groups
08:56:56  <planetmaker> you set as many trains to full load at a primary / secondary pickup
08:57:03  <planetmaker> and manage it to get always everything
08:57:07  <PublicServer> <V453000> and you do the one group anywhere, everywhere the same, no way to solve that
08:57:25  <PublicServer> <V453000> but with YACD you dont have to manage 4 groups, just one
08:57:32  <PublicServer> <V453000> if you use web of stations which deliver to each other
08:57:35  <PublicServer> <V453000> they do it automatically
08:57:54  <PublicServer> <V453000> if you dont use that "feature" then imo you dont "use" yacd
08:58:14  <planetmaker> and if you think that it manages itself automatically, then you never really played it :-)
08:58:27  <PublicServer> <V453000> it worked for me
08:58:41  <PublicServer> <V453000> I was testing it when it was fresh as well dont worry
09:02:35  <V453000> !auto
09:02:35  <PublicServer> *** V453000 has enabled autopause mode.
09:02:37  <PublicServer> *** Game paused (number of players)
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09:13:45  <Tray> It may be a stupid question, but what the hack is yacd? (:
09:14:16  <V453000> yet another cargo distribution or something like that
09:14:35  <V453000> basically each cargo wants somewhere and you have to take it there
09:19:08  <V453000> hm, actually, why do the stations redistribute it?
09:22:09  <Tray> I give it a try (:
09:24:05  <Ammler> yacd is dest not dist, afaik
09:25:02  <V453000> I dont even know the difference between those two, but ... why do the stations in yacd re-transfer cargo? if they didnt, then it would be as interesting as pm says
09:26:45  <planetmaker> stations do not distribute it. But cargo is unloaded when there's a connection which brings it to its destination while the current train doesn't
09:27:05  <V453000> well that is what I call distrubited
09:27:09  <V453000> distributed
09:28:16  <planetmaker> wrong concept.
09:28:30  <planetmaker> the idea is that cargo does have a specific destination it wants to be delivered to
09:29:19  <planetmaker> and naturally a cargo has to be unloaded at some stage in order to be delivered
09:29:41  <V453000> yes but that should be only the final stage imo
09:29:50  <planetmaker> so you prefer point to point?
09:30:07  <V453000> isnt that exactly vice versa?
09:30:07  <planetmaker> sounds boring and not network-like at all ;-)
09:30:15  <planetmaker> p2p is what we do now
09:30:20  <planetmaker> pickup coal. deliver to plant. done
09:30:27  <V453000> no point to point is without any hubs
09:30:36  <planetmaker> yeah. we usually do that
09:30:47  <V453000> who we
09:30:50  <planetmaker> we do maybe 1/30 games where we use a transfer hub here on PS
09:31:26  <V453000> yes, because transfers are quite pointless but how is that related
09:32:24  <planetmaker> so basically we do not use any network now
09:32:34  <planetmaker> as we always ship X -> A
09:32:42  <planetmaker> with a YACD type thing we cannot do that
09:32:50  <planetmaker> we need to ship X-> A,B,C,D,E
09:32:56  <planetmaker> thus we need a network
09:33:02  <planetmaker> it's not our choice where to deliver stuff
09:33:15  <planetmaker> we just provide means of transport
09:33:21  <V453000> yes, ok we can agree on that, and now ... which component in the network decides where cargo goes
09:33:24  <V453000> hub or station right?
09:33:30  <V453000> while station does it better
09:33:51  <planetmaker> what is your definiton of "hub"?
09:34:01  <V453000> junction of rails?
09:34:05  <planetmaker> I only know trains, stations and cargo
09:34:21  <V453000> oh, then welcome to openttdcoop, we build BBHs and stuff here
09:34:22  <V453000> hi
09:34:42  <planetmaker> I order the trains to provide good service on my network
09:34:56  <V453000> that is nice
09:35:27  <planetmaker> a hub never decides where a train or a cargo goes. Dunno how you get that idea from
09:35:30  <V453000> but the point that BBH < station in yacd still stands
09:35:34  <planetmaker> it's always the trains orders
09:35:40  <V453000> yes exactly
09:35:53  <V453000> but you have to give them the orders, build the bbh and tell them where to go
09:35:54  <planetmaker> the cargo will use your means of transports which you offer.
09:35:55  <planetmaker> so?
09:36:21  <planetmaker> but you got to provide the right transport routes and capacities
09:36:22  <V453000> if you build there a station where trains meet they will unload the cargo there and load the cargo going to their direction
09:36:28  <planetmaker> while you do not care about that at all currently
09:36:56  <planetmaker> and cargo will not unload, if you got a connection.
09:37:04  <planetmaker> it will only use transfer if it has to
09:37:21  <V453000> you dont have any connections as you do it all through this station to station way
09:37:26  <planetmaker> so you're saying using a transfer is stupid
09:37:33  <V453000> in a normal game, yes
09:37:44  <planetmaker> no, not really
09:37:46  <Rhamphoryncus> If each industry has multiple predetermined destinations then the number of routes is going to explode, so you'll NEED transfers to keep up with it
09:37:52  <V453000> which is why I consider YACD stupid, because it makes point to point transfer more viable than other ways how to build network
09:38:01  <planetmaker> Rhamphoyncus: exactly
09:38:16  <V453000> that is what I am saying
09:38:20  <planetmaker> V453000: it doesn't. Currently you ONLY can do p2p
09:38:38  <V453000> p2p in orders is not p2p
09:38:42  <planetmaker> and as you got zillions of necessary routes, you NEED to employ an extensive network
09:38:54  <V453000> and those routes are care about by stations
09:38:58  <V453000> done
09:39:07  <V453000> cared
09:39:07  <Rhamphoryncus> openttdcoop uses track networks, not vehicle networks
09:39:56  <Rhamphoryncus> yacd needs vehicle networks, which can make track networks unnecessary
09:40:38  <planetmaker> that'd be stupid to do. And not necessarily efficient either
09:41:21  <Rhamphoryncus> Well it'd be a hell of a lot simpler to scale up :)
09:42:04  <Rhamphoryncus> Replace 6-way LLLL_RRRR junctions with a 6-way transfer station.  Easy
09:42:14  <planetmaker> not really. your stations need then way over-sized capacity and stuff
09:42:35  <V453000> what?
09:43:06  <V453000> such station would always be smaller than a hub of same track count
09:43:07  <planetmaker> if you only build p2p routes, your stations would need to be way bigger than they need with a network
09:43:28  <V453000> but they do their job better han bbhs with yacd?
09:43:29  <Rhamphoryncus> But you can treat it as 6 independent stations.  Total capacity may be larger but you can focus on one part at a time
09:44:43  <V453000> oh and by the way if you have at least one transfer then the "cargo to local destinations" is automatically cared about
09:45:02  <V453000> so straight pickup -> drop through series of BBHs does not work nowhere near as well as net of stations
09:46:43  <planetmaker> yes. That's the point. As cargo wants to go to specific places
09:47:16  <V453000> read it again
09:47:36  <V453000> cargo wants to go to specific places -> straight pickup->drop through BBHs does not work
09:47:57  <V453000> is that the point to make BBHs work worse?
09:48:04  <V453000> (it is how it works)
09:48:58  <planetmaker> of course that works
09:49:10  <planetmaker> dunno why you think pickup-> drop doesn't work with yacd
09:50:03  <planetmaker> if you care you can order your trains all to pickup and deliver directly
09:50:08  <V453000> because if you isntead fo pickup -> transfer -> transfer -> drop, you a) do not have to deal with building BBHs, and b) the "local destination" cargo deals with itself easily
09:50:22  <V453000> yes but doing that is inefficient
09:50:56  <V453000> if you instead do pickup -> ...
09:51:30  <planetmaker> ok, but you agree that your statement "cargo wants to go to specific places -> straight pickup->drop through BBHs does not work" is simply wrong?
09:52:48  <V453000> it of course WORKS, but it is STUPID, therefore you wouldnt use it
09:53:00  <V453000> because stations do it better
09:53:12  <V453000> and when you use the better way with stations, you do not need any BBH
09:53:18  <planetmaker> it helps a discussion usually if you stick to true statements instead of false allegations, though
09:53:51  <V453000> it doesnt "work" player wise, it "works" code wise
09:54:28  <planetmaker> at least it otherwise doesn't give the impression that you understood the matter at hand.
09:54:46  <planetmaker> it also works player-wise.
09:55:01  <V453000> how does it work player wise when it is the worse solution?
09:55:03  <planetmaker> but there's no point in doing something different when everything is supposed to stay the same 8)
09:55:10  <planetmaker> it works
09:55:26  <planetmaker> not everything which is not the most efficient thing (in your eyes) does not work
09:56:23  <V453000> so if I see there is a smarter solution I will stick to the less efficient thing ?
09:56:27  <V453000> alright
09:56:40  <planetmaker> V453000: there is a BIG difference between "not the best solution" and "does not work"
09:57:00  <V453000> depends how you explain doesnt work, leave that
09:57:03  <planetmaker> as you only discuss black or white, there's nowhere telling for anyone whether you know or not
09:57:36  <planetmaker> "does not work" means like "a car cannot fly"
09:57:43  <V453000> yes
09:57:46  <planetmaker> not "a trabbi cannot drive"
09:58:02  <V453000> in a game does not work also says CL1 merger will not be good enough
09:58:10  <V453000> but it of course works somehow
09:58:12  <V453000> but that is unimportant
09:58:43  <V453000> the discussion is about yacd making BBHs not viable becuse stations do their job much better
09:59:50  <Tray> Isn't that already the point? You once told me that buildign transfer stations instead of hubs would be much easier but much less fun, if I remember correctly.
09:59:54  <planetmaker> your discussion by your words has always been the whole time about "does not work"
10:00:40  <V453000> yes, which as I explained, is in my interpretation "is not viable"
10:01:34  <planetmaker> well. Common language use has a different understanding for that
10:01:38  <planetmaker> you should say what you mean
10:02:08  <V453000> could you stop arguing about one stupid word phrase and return to the original topic?
10:02:11  <V453000> please?
10:02:31  <V453000> my english is not perfect. it just isnt and never will be, sorry
10:02:40  <planetmaker> you know, it's hard to stay there when I can never be sure you mean what you say ;-)
10:03:27  <V453000> right
10:03:33  <V453000> (I meant left there)
10:03:34  <planetmaker> in any case also with yacd a purely p2p station network is not the best solution either
10:03:57  <V453000> well in which way is it worse than BBH way
10:04:28  <V453000> it will automatically care about new destinations as production grows, it automatically cares about local destinations, it is extremely trivial to expand it
10:04:45  <V453000> you dont have to mess with train orders
10:05:39  <planetmaker> but you should. It's inefficient to not do so
10:06:08  <planetmaker> you still want trains to do the long-distance hauling of cargo specificially between more than two stations
10:06:23  <V453000> well they will re-transfer that
10:07:06  <planetmaker> or they just pickup further cargo on the way to the final destination
10:07:27  <V453000> yes which they cant with BBHs
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10:08:00  <planetmaker> so in your mind trains pickup cargo on bbhs now?
10:08:16  <V453000> they cant pickup further cargo on bbhs I siad?
10:08:23  <V453000> said
10:08:38  <Hazzard> !playercount
10:08:38  <PublicServer> Hazzard: Number of players: 0 (0 spectators)
10:08:44  <planetmaker> trains can't now pickup cargo on a bbh either, can they?
10:09:02  <planetmaker> thus I think that is totally past any point
10:09:44  <V453000> of course they cannot but the question is why would you build a bbh in the first place
10:09:50  <V453000> there is a station not a bbh
10:09:51  <planetmaker> and you'll want one cargo delivered A->B, another C-->D with large distances shared etc.
10:09:56  <Hazzard> Do you ever do shift mainlines on the public server
10:09:59  <planetmaker> Thus VERY good incentive to build a very good network
10:10:03  <V453000> Hazzard: almost never
10:10:15  <V453000> network of stations, yes without bbhs
10:10:20  <Hazzard> Have you ever?
10:10:20  <planetmaker> thus I would want to build more BBHs with a YACD actually than when I can choose where everything needs to go
10:10:33  <V453000> but that is the poitn
10:10:37  <Hazzard> You are still arguing about YACD, whatever that is?
10:10:49  <V453000> _you can choose_ is the problem, _it_ chooses itself if you do it with stations
10:11:16  <V453000> Hazzard: last classic SML game was 185, then there are 2 improved ways with pzg13 and psg207
10:11:37  <planetmaker> V453000: exactly. It chooses. Thus more difficult. Thus more fun :-)
10:11:48  <V453000> ...
10:12:03  <V453000> I am not comparing standard to yacd
10:12:10  <V453000> I am comparing BBHyacd to stationyacd
10:12:27  <Hazzard> Is it viable to attach a station to a SML?
10:12:28  <planetmaker> lol
10:12:28  <V453000> you either use only stations, or you use only hubs, with direct connections between stations
10:12:47  <V453000> Hazzard: yes, but it is considered boring nowadays as all you do during the game is copy paste lines
10:13:15  <Rhamphoryncus> So normal BBH with a few major stationhubs vs every BBH is a stationhub?
10:13:22  <Hazzard> No massive hubs?
10:13:45  <V453000> pretty much Rhamphoryncus
10:14:06  <V453000> Hazzard: SML does not really expect or work with hubs, and if it does they get stupidly large
10:14:37  <Hazzard> ...this may be an anoying question, but why not?
10:15:31  <V453000> Hazzard: the whole way how it works. it shifts some lines somewhere, which is a concept for 1 direction. If they have to merge then you will probably want to have only the least traffic lines merge ... which is not done often
10:16:15  <V453000> Hazzard: original and main point of SML is to have a simply expandable direction of many lines where trains automatically fill the lines. Which is exactly what it does, but it takes away all merger building etc
10:16:35  <Rhamphoryncus> SML tries to compress all the traffic into one line, with the other being bare for mergers.  Trying to merge a fully saturated line is.. bad :)
10:16:55  <V453000> well some trains would also leave that line in the BBH
10:17:04  <V453000> but then you dont have a saturated line anymore
10:17:09  <V453000> and would need a normal and proper merger
10:17:21  <V453000> or some SML-based merger which is usually gigantic
10:17:22  <Rhamphoryncus> Yeah, at best you unshift, do a normal BBH, then reshift
10:17:34  <V453000> yes
10:17:38  <V453000> but why would you shift then
10:17:50  <V453000> to make SLH connections simplier?
10:17:52  <V453000> no :)
10:18:00  <Rhamphoryncus> It might be worth it for a very long, narrow map.. but that's about it
10:18:02  <Rhamphoryncus> aye
10:18:12  <V453000> yes, that is what it is
10:18:19  <V453000> long map without BBHs
10:18:29  <V453000> pzg13 is probably the most efficient way to use it
10:18:33  <Tray> despite the meta discussion about yacd: it isn't very stable, is it? In my current test a RV with the correct destination and waiting cargo is not loading at all
10:18:47  <V453000> dont you have it off Tray?
10:18:53  <V453000> you must set it in the Economy advanced settings
10:19:14  <Tray> I made that
10:19:39  <V453000> hm :)
10:19:43  <Tray> the problem is: it is not loading anything with original it would load no matter of the RV's destination
10:19:53  <V453000> idk
10:19:58  <V453000> only used trains
10:22:10  <Hazzard> Have you done anything with sorting different train lengths./
10:22:11  <Hazzard> ?
10:23:02  <V453000> definitely
10:23:18  <V453000> there are usually better ways to sort trains however
10:23:28  <V453000> orders are the best way in general
10:24:21  <Hazzard> Have you done anything with the train length sorter?
10:24:26  <V453000> psg95 did something like that
10:24:52  <Hazzard> Ok, I gtg now
10:24:57  <Hazzard> see you later
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11:47:16  <Mark> hello hello
11:47:18  <Mark> !password
11:47:19  <PublicServer> Mark: abbeys
11:47:56  <PublicServer> *** Game still paused (number of players)
11:47:57  <PublicServer> *** Mark joined the game
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11:53:16  <V453000> hi
11:53:31  <PublicServer> *** Mark has left the game (leaving)
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12:49:32  <PublicServer> *** Hazzard has left the game (processing map took too long)
12:49:32  <PublicServer> *** Hazzard has left the game (connection lost)
12:49:34  <PublicServer> *** Game still paused (number of players)
12:50:01  <PublicServer> *** Hazzard has left the game (processing map took too long)
12:50:01  <PublicServer> *** Hazzard has left the game (connection lost)
12:50:03  <PublicServer> *** Game still paused (number of players)
12:50:14  <Hazzard> this is bbs
12:50:16  <Hazzard> bs
12:50:46  <PublicServer> *** Hazzard has left the game (processing map took too long)
12:50:47  <PublicServer> *** Hazzard has left the game (connection lost)
12:50:48  <PublicServer> *** Game still paused (number of players)
12:51:05  <Hazzard> it DCs me at 740/750
12:51:30  <PublicServer> *** Game still paused (number of players)
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13:17:03  <PublicServer> *** Game paused (number of players)
13:20:26  <PublicServer> *** Game still paused (number of players)
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13:20:29  <PublicServer> *** Mazur joined the game
13:29:50  <PublicServer> <Mazur> So, what's the beef, chief.
13:30:32  <PublicServer> <Hazzard> Cow meat
13:30:54  <PublicServer> <Mazur> Any jam, Sam?
13:31:06  <PublicServer> <Hazzard> mei you
13:31:30  <PublicServer> <Mazur> Who she, be?
13:32:48  <PublicServer> <Hazzard> um
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13:34:31  <mfb-> hi
13:34:34  <PublicServer> *** mfb joined the game
13:34:42  <PublicServer> <Mazur> Hi you.
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13:35:10  <Firestar> !password
13:35:10  <PublicServer> Firestar: draped
13:35:12  <Firestar> hi
13:35:35  <PublicServer> <Mazur> lo
13:36:03  <PublicServer> *** Firestar joined the game
13:37:34  <PublicServer> <Hazzard> Hrm
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14:01:39  <PublicServer> <mfb> ships??
14:01:53  <PublicServer> <Mazur> Just  playing.
14:02:45  <PublicServer> <mfb> you could help the ships a bit for acme->whitecourt
14:03:08  <PublicServer> <Mazur> Build a shortcut, you mean?
14:03:22  <PublicServer> <mfb> no, add buoys or docks to the order list in between
14:04:01  <PublicServer> <Mazur> THey could revisit all stops on the way back, enough to do, I suppose.
14:04:19  <PublicServer> <mfb> well, the current orders do not work
14:04:21  <PublicServer> <mfb> see ships
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14:08:30  <Maraxus> !password
14:08:30  <PublicServer> Maraxus: heyday
14:08:46  <PublicServer> *** Maraxus joined the game
14:08:49  <PublicServer> <Maraxus> hi
14:08:51  <PublicServer> <Mazur> lo
14:08:54  <PublicServer> <mfb> hi
14:09:24  <PublicServer> <Hazzard> Hello
14:12:10  <PublicServer> <Hazzard> Hmm
14:12:37  <PublicServer> <Hazzard> I am trying to figure out the best way to make a 2 track mixer fit into 2 columns
14:12:47  <PublicServer> <mfb> :D
14:12:57  <PublicServer> <mfb> good luck
14:13:03  <PublicServer> <Hazzard> I already have one
14:13:10  <PublicServer> <Hazzard> but one part of the track will get more trains
14:13:41  <PublicServer> <mfb> where?
14:14:03  <PublicServer> <mfb> the basic problem is that one line has to get a single bridge/tunnel
14:14:15  <PublicServer> <Hazzard> at "Super Small & Useless Mixer"
14:14:51  <PublicServer> <Hazzard> not actually connected to anything
14:16:13  <PublicServer> <mfb> that should be balanced
14:16:19  <PublicServer> <mfb> +- some tiles for signals
14:16:33  <PublicServer> <Hazzard> Yup
14:17:42  <PublicServer> <mfb> fits for TL3
14:23:08  <PublicServer> <mfb> btter
14:23:08  <PublicServer> <Hazzard> Figured out a better way?
14:23:30  <PublicServer> <mfb> (smaller)
14:25:26  <PublicServer> <Hazzard> Have there been any games where mixers are used along the mainline to simplify hub building?
14:25:37  <PublicServer> <mfb> I don't think so
14:25:48  <PublicServer> <mfb> would be bad for the line capacity
14:26:14  <PublicServer> <Hazzard> Because of the merging?
14:26:20  <PublicServer> <mfb> right
14:26:43  <PublicServer> <Hazzard> Hmm...what if it was TL1? :P
14:26:57  <PublicServer> <mfb> ?
14:28:29  <PublicServer> <Hazzard> That would make it pointless
14:30:43  *** Tray has joined #openttdcoop
14:31:24  <Tray> !password
14:31:24  <PublicServer> Tray: blends
14:32:07  <PublicServer> *** Tray joined the game
14:32:58  <PublicServer> <Hazzard> Now put a 2 track mixer in a one column space :P
14:33:07  <Mark> !password
14:33:08  <PublicServer> Mark: blends
14:33:12  <PublicServer> <mfb> lol
14:33:24  <Mark> good luck with that
14:33:42  <PublicServer> <Hazzard> It's too bad that bridges can't cross eachother
14:33:42  <PublicServer> *** Mark joined the game
14:33:44  <PublicServer> <Mazur> lo
14:33:47  <PublicServer> <Mark> howdy
14:34:01  <PublicServer> <Hazzard> Then we could have 3stackedtrails
14:34:07  <PublicServer> <Hazzard> and more
14:34:13  <PublicServer> <mfb> we have that
14:34:16  <PublicServer> <mfb> see BBH04
14:34:31  <PublicServer> <mfb> 4 stacked tunnels at one NS column
14:35:41  <PublicServer> <Hazzard> Yeah, but you can't have them parallel and on top of eachother
14:35:47  <PublicServer> <Hazzard> Only 2
14:35:53  <PublicServer> <mfb> ?
14:36:03  <PublicServer> <mfb> 3 parallel tunnels on top of each other are there
14:36:26  <PublicServer> <Hazzard> But then you have a massive signal gap
14:36:36  <PublicServer> <Hazzard> With 2 tracks you can have a signal gap of 6
14:36:42  <PublicServer> <mfb> that is the reason we have so many tunnels there
14:37:21  <PublicServer> <mfb> the longest here have 50 tiles
14:37:27  <PublicServer> <Mark> Hazzard: !lookie
14:37:49  <PublicServer> <Mark> same a 2-tile wide x-less teriminus really
14:37:51  <PublicServer> <mfb> that looks similar to my idea
14:38:09  <PublicServer> <Mark> just needs proper length waiting bys
14:38:09  <PublicServer> <Mark> bays
14:38:27  <PublicServer> <Mark> yea
14:38:29  <PublicServer> <Mark> obviously
14:39:39  <PublicServer> <mfb> that does not help
14:39:57  <PublicServer> <Hazzard> No crossing tracks
14:40:45  <PublicServer> <mfb> :D
14:41:11  <PublicServer> <Mark> thats for making the waiting bays longer
14:41:17  <PublicServer> <mfb> ok
14:41:17  <PublicServer> <Mark> without creating an insane signal gap
14:42:03  <PublicServer> <Mark> right ive lost it :D
14:42:53  <PublicServer> <Mark> well there you go, i suppose
14:42:53  <PublicServer> <mfb> like that?
14:43:06  <PublicServer> <Mark> yeah mines done pretty much
14:43:48  <PublicServer> <mfb> full capacity
14:43:58  <PublicServer> <mfb> and 18 tiles long
14:44:04  <PublicServer> <mfb> 3 waiting bays
14:44:22  <PublicServer> <Mark> yeah that works
14:44:44  <PublicServer> <mfb> 3 tiles
14:44:46  <PublicServer> <Hazzard> Can you do a 3->3 with 3 tiles space?
14:44:48  <PublicServer> <Mark> yeah its TL5
14:44:55  <PublicServer> <mfb> I made this for TL3 :p
14:45:02  <PublicServer> <Mark> mine's for 5  :P
14:45:04  <PublicServer> <mfb> TL5 is just 2 tiles longer everywhere
14:45:14  <PublicServer> <Mark> could be slightly shorter but i made shorter bridges...
14:45:44  <PublicServer> <Mark> Hazzard: probably possible but would be insanely long
14:45:48  <PublicServer> <mfb> oh, and I have no shared entry/exit line tiles
14:45:58  <PublicServer> <Mark> with loads of long tunnels and bridges
14:46:32  <PublicServer> <Mark> mfb: its supposed to be a mixer not a station
14:46:35  <PublicServer> <Hazzard> Do you think it is possible to do an X->X with X tiles?
14:46:45  <PublicServer> <Mark> probably...
14:46:51  <PublicServer> <Mark> would get pretty confusing though :P
14:46:57  <PublicServer> <mfb> not with coop rules
14:47:08  <PublicServer> <mfb> as you have to begin with a tunnel or bridge at one line
14:47:18  <PublicServer> <mfb> otherwise you are stuck
14:47:20  <PublicServer> <Mark> might be fine for a low capacity mixer
14:47:34  <PublicServer> <Mark> my tunnel is only 4 tiles
14:48:00  <PublicServer> <Mark> 4-4 shouldn actually be too hard
14:48:26  <PublicServer> <mfb> ok, to come to something more useful: 3rd line at factory?
14:48:36  <PublicServer> <Mark> just copy 4 2*2's and put a crossover in the middle
14:48:38  <PublicServer> <Hazzard> Ugh, userfull
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14:48:50  <PublicServer> <Hazzard> usefull, I am outta here
14:48:58  <PublicServer> *** Hazzard has left the game (leaving)
14:49:00  <PublicServer> <Mark> Hazzard: do you actually need that 2*2 somewhere?
14:49:02  <PublicServer> <Mark> i'd like to test it
14:49:04  <PublicServer> <Mark> ...
14:49:13  <Hazzard> See you guys later
14:51:50  <PublicServer> <Tray> who made the 3rd line at the factory?
14:52:00  <PublicServer> <mfb> from factory to BBH? me
14:52:15  <PublicServer> <Tray> did you think about upgrading the station too?
14:52:34  <PublicServer> <mfb> that should be obvious
14:52:53  <PublicServer> <Tray> need help?
14:52:57  <PublicServer> <mfb> do you think about joining?
14:52:59  <PublicServer> <mfb> :D
14:53:18  <PublicServer> <Tray> I would remake the whole station though
14:53:28  <PublicServer> <mfb> in which way?
14:53:36  <PublicServer> <mfb> platform groups of 3 or something new?
14:54:25  <PublicServer> <Tray> that would be the most obvious, but I don't like the whole design \:
14:54:47  <PublicServer> <mfb> we can change it
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14:57:10  <PublicServer> <mfb> do you have any specific design in mind?
14:57:14  *** Hazzard has quit IRC
14:57:58  <PublicServer> <Tray> No I just don't like the large curves I guess a terminous station would be much nicer
14:58:17  <mfb-> uhm
14:58:43  <PublicServer> <mfb> separate drop/pickup in that case?
14:58:46  <PublicServer> <Mark> needs 4th line really
14:58:54  <PublicServer> <Mark> the stations are fine
14:59:12  <PublicServer> <mfb> 3rd should be enough
14:59:15  <PublicServer> <Tray> fine is not beautyful (;
14:59:17  <PublicServer> <Mark> there is a 3rd
14:59:24  <PublicServer> <mfb> there is not
14:59:42  <PublicServer> <mfb> two incoming lines
15:00:29  <PublicServer> <Mark> there
15:00:31  <PublicServer> <Mark> solved
15:00:41  <PublicServer> <mfb> what?
15:00:47  <PublicServer> <Mark> no more jam at the drop
15:00:55  <PublicServer> <Mark> theres nothing wrong with the stations
15:00:57  <PublicServer> <mfb> the jam is at the BBH01
15:01:04  <PublicServer> <Mark> oh :)
15:01:18  <PublicServer> <mfb> because we need a 3rd line there to the factory
15:01:24  <PublicServer> * Mark slaps himself
15:02:28  <PublicServer> <Tray> anyway:
15:02:43  <PublicServer> <Tray> stop trains for trololo jam and do the upgrade?
15:03:49  <PublicServer> <mfb> that is the idea. or build some temporary stuff
15:04:13  <PublicServer> <mfb> or do it with running traffic if the new design allows that :D
15:05:01  <V453000> !password
15:05:01  <PublicServer> V453000: loafer
15:05:13  <PublicServer> <V453000> hi
15:05:16  <PublicServer> *** V453000 joined the game
15:05:20  <PublicServer> <Maraxus> hi V
15:05:26  <PublicServer> <mfb> hi
15:05:49  <PublicServer> <V453000> mfb that waiting bay was absolutely intentional :)
15:05:51  <PublicServer> <V453000> more hill
15:06:25  <PublicServer> <mfb> ah that
15:06:36  <PublicServer> <mfb> but it broke the waiting bays at the split
15:06:41  <PublicServer> <mfb> trains blocked the other line
15:06:51  <PublicServer> <V453000> too many signals I guess :)
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15:07:01  <PublicServer> <Mark> or too few
15:07:09  <PublicServer> <mfb> that works
15:07:23  <PublicServer> <mfb> we had a 3rd train in this before
15:07:26  <PublicServer> <mfb> which does not fit in
15:10:17  <PublicServer> <V453000> nice
15:10:35  <PublicServer> <V453000> Hazzard added 5th at the refinery split and caused about every issue he could
15:10:46  <PublicServer> <mfb> :D
15:11:00  <PublicServer> <Mark> i bet you i could cause more issues
15:11:03  <PublicServer> <mfb> in which way?
15:12:42  <PublicServer> <Mark> shit that was close
15:12:49  <PublicServer> <Mark> accidently designalled a bit of ML
15:16:40  <Rhamphoryncus> Sounds like we just missed something spectacular ;)
15:16:52  <PublicServer> <Mark> almost
15:18:54  <PublicServer> <mfb> x-temp generates jams
15:19:00  <PublicServer> <mfb> not so unexpected
15:19:12  <PublicServer> <mfb> massive jam near SLH04
15:19:35  <PublicServer> <mfb> ah
15:19:37  <PublicServer> <V453000> hm :)
15:19:44  <PublicServer> <mfb> trains which took the wrong side because you killed bridges
15:19:50  <PublicServer> <mfb> just a temporary issue
15:20:04  <PublicServer> <V453000> did you say anything Mark? :)
15:20:14  <PublicServer> <V453000> the thing hazzard did at least didnt break trains :D
15:20:16  <PublicServer> <Mark> no? :D
15:21:06  <PublicServer> <Mark> meh slh04 again
15:21:29  <PublicServer> <mfb> that
15:21:39  <PublicServer> <mfb> eh... that is just temporary
15:21:42  <PublicServer> <Mark> yeah
15:21:56  <PublicServer> <Mark> oil trains not being able to find the drop and turning around there
15:21:58  <PublicServer> <V453000> everything temporary! <3
15:22:38  <PublicServer> <mfb> they were not able to find the drop because V killed all bridges leading to it
15:22:55  <PublicServer> <Mark> yeah i did that before
15:22:57  <PublicServer> <Mark> well something similair
15:23:27  <PublicServer> <Mazur> If the depot train feeder tracks were (re-)moved, one could tunnel the third line into the tracks to the popup (=mixed drop/pickup).
15:24:09  <PublicServer> <mfb> but that would still be 2 ingoing lines
15:24:23  <PublicServer> <Mazur> At the end, yes.
15:25:07  <PublicServer> <Mark> kill all the churches
15:25:13  <PublicServer> <Mazur> Unless you rebuild the station in threes and use a level/bridge/tunnel combo to fit three entrances in.
15:25:23  <PublicServer> <V453000> keep the houses :D
15:25:37  <PublicServer> <Mazur> Religion is a hoax, anyway.
15:25:48  <PublicServer> <mfb> :D
15:26:11  <PublicServer> <mfb> there are your houses
15:26:12  <PublicServer> <Mark> why is there a heliport in my hub?
15:26:12  <PublicServer> <Mazur> Just a perpetuation of the Santa Claus myth for adults.
15:26:31  <PublicServer> <Mazur> So you can kill it?
15:26:50  <PublicServer> <mfb> CB and me found out that the heliport capacity depends on the height of the terrain
15:27:00  <PublicServer> <Mark> heh
15:27:02  <PublicServer> <Mark> good point :D
15:27:16  <PublicServer> <V453000> lol
15:27:22  <PublicServer> <V453000> thats ridiculous :)
15:27:25  <PublicServer> <mfb> you missed the other heliport
15:27:32  <PublicServer> <V453000> nah I saw it
15:27:46  <PublicServer> <V453000> I didnt realize higher heliports could be faster :D
15:27:54  <PublicServer> <V453000> YEAH! :D
15:27:58  <PublicServer> <mfb> :D
15:27:58  <PublicServer> <Mark> oh thats new
15:27:58  <PublicServer> <V453000> out of fuel :D
15:28:06  <PublicServer> <Mazur> kEWLNESSES!
15:28:08  <PublicServer> <Mark> they used to fly around until infinity i think
15:28:22  <PublicServer> <Mark> this calls for a large scale test
15:28:28  <PublicServer> <V453000> lol
15:28:30  <PublicServer> <mfb> :D
15:28:42  <PublicServer> <V453000> last airplane standing?
15:28:59  <PublicServer> <mfb> V: where is 5->refinery?
15:29:05  <PublicServer> <V453000> nowhere yet
15:29:06  <PublicServer> <mfb> as: goods pickup
15:29:07  <PublicServer> <V453000> thinking
15:29:09  <PublicServer> <V453000> where to build it
15:29:17  <PublicServer> <mfb> oh ok
15:29:59  <PublicServer> <Mazur> Ya like ta move it, move it.
15:30:13  <PublicServer> <mfb> your 4-tile bridges tend to get stuck in evil mode
15:30:15  <PublicServer> <mfb> *5
15:30:28  <PublicServer> <V453000> iz 5
15:30:46  <PublicServer> <Mazur> That's because he built them while in evil mode.
15:30:52  <PublicServer> <Mazur> He's always in evil mode.
15:30:58  <PublicServer> <mfb> ;)
15:31:01  <PublicServer> <V453000> ..
15:32:23  <PublicServer> <V453000> lets see what evil this does
15:32:30  <PublicServer> <V453000> the density of goods trains is still minimal
15:32:48  <PublicServer> <Mark> BOOM
15:33:11  <PublicServer> <V453000> hm the single bridge and single tunnel will work just fine
15:33:17  <PublicServer> <V453000> from the way how BBH04 works
15:33:19  <PublicServer> <mfb> into the industry!
15:33:25  <PublicServer> <V453000> the merger wont allow goods trains to come in short oredr
15:33:26  <PublicServer> <V453000> order
15:33:35  <PublicServer> <mfb> luckily the wood didn't catch fire
15:33:39  <PublicServer> <Mark> yeah
15:33:41  <PublicServer> <Mark> found bug
15:33:51  <PublicServer> <Mark> burned out planes hover above the water
15:33:57  <PublicServer> <mfb> CL again
15:34:08  <PublicServer> <V453000> :>
15:35:01  <PublicServer> <mfb> lol double reversers in the BBH
15:35:13  <PublicServer> <V453000> noticed now? .)
15:35:31  <PublicServer> <mfb> as you can see
15:37:13  <PublicServer> <V453000> BBH 02 jamming
15:37:15  <PublicServer> <V453000> all the way up to refinery bridges
15:37:30  <PublicServer> <mfb> 02?
15:37:36  <PublicServer> <Mark> is not
15:38:44  <PublicServer> <V453000> that crossing
15:38:47  <PublicServer> <V453000> or that split in general
15:39:03  <PublicServer> <mfb> easy fix
15:39:06  <PublicServer> <Mark> needs 5th to BBH01
15:39:08  <PublicServer> <Mark> or proper merge
15:39:10  <PublicServer> <V453000> :>
15:39:33  <PublicServer> <Mark> yea
15:39:39  <smoovi> !screen
15:39:39  <PublicServer> *** smoovi liked to make screenshot of last action, but nobody was working since. (
15:39:43  <PublicServer> <Mark> mix that with the one inside
15:39:46  <PublicServer> <Mark> thats almost empty
15:40:08  <PublicServer> <mfb> good idea
15:40:14  <PublicServer> <Mark> i'll fix it
15:40:45  <PublicServer> <Mark> ugly
15:40:47  <PublicServer> <Mark> but works
15:40:50  <PublicServer> <Mark> for now anyway
15:41:30  <PublicServer> <mfb> wtf
15:41:56  <PublicServer> *** Tray has left the game (leaving)
15:42:05  <PublicServer> <mfb> I would have expected an entry->exit split to two lines after the the split of N->E
15:42:24  <PublicServer> <Mark> yeah thats what i was thinking first
15:42:26  <PublicServer> <Mark> but im lazy :D
15:43:14  <PublicServer> *** V453000 has left the game (leaving)
15:43:44  <PublicServer> <Mark> dinner
15:43:46  <PublicServer> *** Mark has left the game (leaving)
15:45:46  <PublicServer> <Mazur> Like a prio over troubled bridges...  (Simon & Garfunkel)
15:45:56  <PublicServer> <mfb> :D
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16:02:06  <PublicServer> *** mfb has joined spectators
16:02:06  <PublicServer> *** Game paused (number of players)
16:02:08  <PublicServer> <mfb> afk
16:02:19  <PublicServer> *** Maraxus has joined spectators
16:02:25  <PublicServer> <mfb> oh, cardston woods needs trains
16:02:31  *** holyduck has quit IRC
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16:02:48  <PublicServer> <mfb> one oil rig exploded
16:02:59  <PublicServer> <mfb> (in production)
16:06:08  <V453000> I thought Mark found some new feature :D
16:09:55  <PublicServer> *** Maraxus has left the game (leaving)
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16:32:25  <Mark> V453000: wha?
16:32:37  <V453000> [18:02] <+PublicServer> <mfb> one oil rig exploded
16:32:52  <Mark> hehe
16:46:14  <mfb-> :D
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18:01:50  <Maraxus> !password
18:01:51  <PublicServer> Maraxus: waiter
18:02:04  <PublicServer> *** Game still paused (number of players)
18:02:04  <PublicServer> *** Game unpaused (number of players)
18:02:07  <PublicServer> *** Maraxus joined the game
18:02:31  <PublicServer> <mfb> food ready. bad timing :/
18:02:50  <PublicServer> <Maraxus> oh well
18:02:54  <PublicServer> *** mfb has joined spectators
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18:45:02  <Firestar> !password
18:45:03  <PublicServer> Firestar: mewing
18:46:04  <PublicServer> *** Game still paused (number of players)
18:46:05  <PublicServer> <Firestar> hello
18:46:06  <PublicServer> *** Firestar joined the game
18:46:41  <PublicServer> *** Game still paused (number of players)
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18:46:43  <PublicServer> *** Chris Booth joined the game
18:46:51  <PublicServer> <Firestar> hi CB
18:46:59  <PublicServer> <Chris Booth> hi
18:47:21  <PublicServer> <Chris Booth> you know what I learnt today
18:47:31  <PublicServer> <Firestar> what
18:47:49  <PublicServer> <Chris Booth> its almost impossible to talk to someone while running on a treadmill
18:47:59  <PublicServer> <Chris Booth> you can talk, or run but not both
18:48:10  <PublicServer> <Firestar> i can
18:48:41  <PublicServer> <Chris Booth> I was trying to talk to a friend, while on hands free on the treadmill and they just started laughing at me
18:50:16  <PublicServer> *** Chris Booth has left the game (general timeout)
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18:50:18  <PublicServer> *** Game paused (number of players)
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18:52:28  <PublicServer> <Chris Booth> stupid wifi
18:52:30  <PublicServer> <Chris Booth> and bk
18:52:42  <PublicServer> <Firestar> i wonder what the refinery will produce whenthe game gets to final stage
18:53:08  <PublicServer> <Chris Booth> erm not sure what max production is on these
18:53:08  <V453000> beer, what else
18:53:21  <PublicServer> <Firestar> amount
18:53:21  <V453000> I think something above 30k ... a lot
18:53:23  <PublicServer> <Chris Booth> cider
18:53:41  <PublicServer> <Firestar> well maybe we could try reach 100k
18:53:44  <PublicServer> <Chris Booth> you think its 2k a square?
18:54:03  <PublicServer> <Chris Booth> Firestar: impossible there is a hard limit to the plant
18:54:09  <PublicServer> <Chris Booth> I think its about 17k
18:54:43  <PublicServer> <Firestar> im already trying to get a factory to 100k production
18:54:50  <PublicServer> <Firestar> in SP
18:55:38  <V453000> above 30k.
18:55:42  <V453000> about 17 has sawmill
18:55:53  <V453000> Firestar: 27450 is max
18:55:55  <PublicServer> <Firestar> and factory?
18:56:08  <V453000> yes, of factory
18:57:11  <Chris_Booth> ah yes oil ref is high than I thought
18:57:25  *** Guest7943 has quit IRC
18:58:20  <Chris_Booth> Oil ref is 34,425 Creates a month
18:59:13  <PublicServer> *** Maraxus has joined company #1
19:00:22  <PublicServer> <Chris Booth> also if you are interested Firestar there is an easy way to work it out: 2295 crates of goods per industry tile per month
19:01:48  <Firestar> what is max production of steel mill?
19:05:06  <Chris_Booth> 2295 x number of tiles
19:05:27  <Chris_Booth> so 14 x 2295
19:05:42  <Chris_Booth> 32130
19:06:00  <PublicServer> *** Chris Booth has left the game (leaving)
19:06:16  <Chris_Booth> Firestar:
19:06:17  <Webster> Title: Transport Tycoon Forums View topic - Factory/Refinery maximum monthly production? (at
19:06:24  <Chris_Booth> that will tell you all you need to know
19:06:38  <PublicServer> *** Firestar has left the game (leaving)
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19:47:14  *** Scotchy has joined #openttdcoop
19:47:47  <Scotchy> !download
19:47:47  <PublicServer> Scotchy: !download autostart|autottd|lin|lin64|osx|ottdau|source|win32|win64|win9x
19:47:48  <PublicServer> Scotchy:
19:48:33  <sietse> !password
19:48:33  <PublicServer> sietse: naiver
19:48:39  <Scotchy> Hello there
19:48:44  <PublicServer> <mfb> hi
19:48:46  <PublicServer> *** Sietse joined the game
19:48:48  <PublicServer> <Maraxus> hi
19:48:50  <PublicServer> <Sietse> hello
19:50:13  <PublicServer> *** SCOTCHY joined the game
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19:50:53  <PublicServer> <mfb> 2369 and still enough oil in the earth
19:50:55  <PublicServer> <mfb> something is wrong here
19:51:37  <PublicServer> <mfb> end of 4th at SLH10 jams
19:52:19  <PublicServer> <mfb> probably induced by the merge to east at BBH01
19:52:37  <PublicServer> <mfb> which gets some problems with 3 exit lines
19:53:03  <PublicServer> <Sietse> 4th needed to BBH01 and SLH01 I think
19:53:21  <PublicServer> <mfb> probably
19:54:19  <PublicServer> *** mfb has left the game (general timeout)
19:54:20  <PublicServer> *** mfb has left the game (connection lost)
19:54:20  <PublicServer> *** Game paused (number of players)
19:54:48  <mfb-> !password
19:54:49  <PublicServer> mfb-: naiver
19:54:51  <PublicServer> *** SCOTCHY has left the game (leaving)
19:55:01  <PublicServer> *** Game still paused (number of players)
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20:00:51  <PublicServer> <mfb> things for a 4th line somewhere?
20:01:06  <PublicServer> *** Chris Booth joined the game
20:01:27  <PublicServer> <Sietse> I am just trying to squeeze a fourth line towards SLH01
20:01:37  <PublicServer> <Chris Booth> hi
20:01:44  <PublicServer> <Sietse> hi
20:01:45  <PublicServer> <mfb> hi
20:01:47  <PublicServer> <Maraxus> hi
20:05:37  <PublicServer> *** Chris Booth has left the game (leaving)
20:07:45  <PublicServer> <mfb> that should help
20:07:51  <PublicServer> <Sietse> nice work
20:08:01  <PublicServer> <mfb> I would bridge this part
20:08:03  <PublicServer> <Sietse> wanted to bridge those lines
20:08:06  <PublicServer> <mfb> or go around sundance
20:08:28  <PublicServer> <mfb> but bridges should be easier
20:08:35  <PublicServer> <Sietse> what do you mean?
20:08:57  <PublicServer> <Sietse> the existing 3 lines you mean?
20:09:03  <PublicServer> <mfb> no, your lines
20:09:25  <PublicServer> <Sietse> what difference does that make?
20:09:32  <PublicServer> <mfb> the bridges are higher
20:09:38  <PublicServer> <mfb> so it is easier to make the curve
20:09:54  <PublicServer> <Sietse> I don't get it ;)
20:09:56  <PublicServer> <mfb> like this
20:10:15  <PublicServer> <Sietse> you win one tile?
20:10:19  <PublicServer> <mfb> two
20:11:01  <PublicServer> <mfb> or one tile and 50m
20:11:15  <PublicServer> <mfb> well... the 100m are the important part
20:11:15  <PublicServer> <Sietse> still Sundance needs to be shrinked ;)
20:11:25  <PublicServer> <mfb> with tunnels, you never get the curve before sundance without massive TF
20:11:31  <PublicServer> <mfb> or S-bends
20:11:38  <PublicServer> <mfb> but only some houses now
20:11:50  <PublicServer> <mfb> not the whole town and 150m TF
20:12:02  <PublicServer> <mfb> just stadium+1tile
20:12:16  <PublicServer> <mfb> begin with killing trees
20:12:26  <PublicServer> <mfb> yeah like that
20:12:36  <PublicServer> <Sietse> transparent :0
20:12:39  <PublicServer> <mfb> ....
20:12:45  <PublicServer> <mfb> first attempt
20:12:52  <PublicServer> <mfb> and without, we cannot remove it
20:13:02  <PublicServer> <mfb> well, just wait
20:13:21  <PublicServer> <mfb> it won't get good enough
20:16:59  <PublicServer> <mfb> massive jam
20:17:06  <PublicServer> <mfb> SLH09
20:17:18  <PublicServer> <mfb> something is wrong with oil drop
20:17:25  <PublicServer> <mfb> wtf
20:17:40  <PublicServer> <mfb> what/who was that
20:17:52  <PublicServer> <Sietse> someone just removed tracks
20:18:54  <PublicServer> <Sietse> wtf
20:19:05  <PublicServer> <Sietse> BBH04 also tracks broken
20:19:21  <PublicServer> <Sietse> see !here
20:19:23  <PublicServer> <mfb> where?
20:20:13  <PublicServer> <Maraxus> and some of slh05 as well
20:22:28  <PublicServer> <mfb> first case of vandalism I see here
20:22:55  <PublicServer> <Sietse> weird stuff
20:23:51  <PublicServer> <Sietse> SLH04 is jamming
20:24:09  <PublicServer> <mfb> everything is jamming at the moment
20:24:48  <PublicServer> <mfb> and SLH04 as all the oil trains like it
20:25:04  <PublicServer> <Sietse> steel pickup causing trouble
20:25:10  <mfb-> Scotchy ?
20:25:14  <Scotchy> yes ?
20:25:31  <mfb-> did you change anything in the game?
20:25:41  <Scotchy> no
20:26:51  <PublicServer> *** Mazur has left the game (connection lost)
20:27:03  <mfb-> hmm
20:27:08  <PublicServer> *** Mazur joined the game
20:27:24  <PublicServer> <Mazur> Jammarama!
20:27:46  <PublicServer> <Sietse> Al Qaeda visiting....
20:27:56  <PublicServer> <mfb> but who deleted the tracks then
20:28:10  <PublicServer> <Mazur> And where?
20:28:20  <PublicServer> <mfb> north of BBH04
20:28:25  <Scotchy> I entered as watcher so no way I would've accidentaly deleted anything :)
20:28:28  <PublicServer> <Sietse> I was simply working on that 4th line
20:28:48  <PublicServer> <Sietse> and oil drop
20:29:06  <PublicServer> <mfb> roughly a box of ~10x200 tiles
20:29:21  <TWerkhoven[l]> someone drag into a news-paper maybe?
20:29:25  <PublicServer> <mfb> where every (non-occupied) track was removed
20:30:53  <PublicServer> <mfb> somthing is wrong with the new BBH04 split north
20:30:55  <PublicServer> <Mazur> You could rebuild it all, no problems?
20:37:42  <V453000> !password
20:37:42  <PublicServer> V453000: sprigs
20:38:15  <PublicServer> *** V453000 joined the game
20:38:19  <PublicServer> <V453000> hi
20:38:25  <PublicServer> <Mazur> Looks like everything's moving again?
20:38:25  <PublicServer> <mfb> hi
20:38:27  <PublicServer> <Mazur> lo
20:38:27  <PublicServer> <Maraxus> hi V
20:38:33  <PublicServer> <Sietse> hey V
20:38:35  <PublicServer> <Mazur> Good job, mufby.
20:38:41  <PublicServer> <mfb> we had some massive destruction near BBH04
20:38:47  <PublicServer> <V453000> hm
20:38:50  <PublicServer> <V453000> logs say something?
20:39:00  <PublicServer> <mfb> no idea
20:39:06  <PublicServer> <mfb> how can I look at them?
20:40:48  <PublicServer> <V453000> what is that pf trap stuff going on? :o
20:40:58  <PublicServer> <mfb> I hate all these lost oil trains
20:41:38  <PublicServer> <V453000> lost oil trains?
20:41:52  <PublicServer> <mfb> oil trains at SLH04
20:42:06  <PublicServer> <Sietse> BBH04 -> oil drop was terrorized
20:42:28  <PublicServer> <Mazur> They'll find their way hoe, eventually.
20:43:18  <PublicServer> <mfb> what does "too many railway station parts" mean?
20:43:32  <PublicServer> <V453000> station can have only some amount of dragndrop parts
20:43:39  *** Bassals has quit IRC
20:43:47  <PublicServer> <V453000> each click when you build counts
20:43:50  <PublicServer> <V453000> or drag
20:44:05  <PublicServer> <mfb> oil refinery goods pickup reached that maximum
20:44:20  <PublicServer> <V453000> that is likely
20:44:30  <PublicServer> <mfb> ah.. I just need the waypoint
20:44:32  <PublicServer> <V453000> I hate that pf trap tbh
20:44:36  <PublicServer> <V453000> why should it be needed?
20:45:02  <PublicServer> <mfb> I hate all the trains jamming the whole network when (not if) something  with oil is wrong
20:45:20  <PublicServer> <V453000> well lets find that issue then
20:45:30  <PublicServer> <mfb> easy to find
20:45:44  <PublicServer> <V453000> ?_
20:45:47  <PublicServer> <mfb> new bridges, massive destructions of the lines, other constructions going on
20:46:13  <PublicServer> <V453000> uhm
20:46:19  <PublicServer> <V453000> that is normal?
20:46:33  <PublicServer> <mfb> but it happens frequently
20:46:39  <PublicServer> <mfb> and I don't like it
20:46:46  <PublicServer> <V453000> okay
20:47:12  <PublicServer> <mfb> wait
20:47:14  <PublicServer> <mfb> train 15?
20:47:34  <PublicServer> <mfb> 133, 308, ...
20:47:36  <PublicServer> <V453000> dafuq
20:47:46  <PublicServer> <V453000> oh right
20:47:56  <PublicServer> <mfb> probably from constructions, too
20:47:56  <PublicServer> <V453000> no escape path
20:47:58  <PublicServer> <V453000> yes
20:49:52  <PublicServer> <mfb> :D
20:49:55  <PublicServer> <V453000> :)
20:50:04  *** ODM has quit IRC
20:50:26  <PublicServer> <V453000> hm
20:50:42  <PublicServer> <V453000> actually now I know why I didnt add the escape route
20:50:50  <PublicServer> <V453000> it shouldnt be needed
20:51:12  <PublicServer> <V453000> they get to leave the station through the overflow as well
20:51:22  <PublicServer> <mfb> hmm right
20:52:08  <PublicServer> <V453000> it probably just takes ages for the overlfow to clear
20:52:14  <PublicServer> <mfb> a wood train?
20:52:17  <PublicServer> <mfb> 949 :D
20:52:27  <PublicServer> <V453000> also building victim I assume
20:52:41  <PublicServer> <mfb> SLH08
20:52:43  <PublicServer> <mfb> probably
20:52:53  <PublicServer> <Mazur> Maybe a dreamer, thinking about being a slick oil train.
20:53:03  <PublicServer> <mfb> "future oil"
20:53:13  <PublicServer> <V453000> lol
20:53:15  <PublicServer> <mfb> in the year 50,000,000
20:53:17  <PublicServer> <V453000> sneaky trains
20:53:20  <PublicServer> <mfb> or
20:53:28  <PublicServer> <V453000> nuts actually has wood cars that can carry oil :p
20:53:30  <PublicServer> <mfb> "might be oil at the time it can escape the overflow"
20:53:36  <PublicServer> <V453000> :D
20:54:02  <PublicServer> <Mazur> Onlyif we put it under enough pressure.
20:54:09  <PublicServer> <mfb> right
20:54:32  <PublicServer> <V453000> is there some refit ide we werent able to realize due to not available wagons?
20:54:47  <PublicServer> <mfb> I didn't hear of any
20:54:49  <PublicServer> <V453000> idea
20:54:51  <PublicServer> <V453000> me neither
20:55:17  <PublicServer> <Mazur> OIl can refit to goods?
20:55:27  <PublicServer> <V453000> well, refit srnw taking care about eeeveeerryyyythinnggg? :)
20:55:46  <PublicServer> <V453000> including secondary refits etc
20:55:53  <PublicServer> <V453000> that could be something
20:55:59  <PublicServer> <V453000> :)
20:56:23  <PublicServer> <Mazur> Yeah, on line of empties, station allow anything in, refits in locu, loads and sends to appropriate drop.
20:56:45  <PublicServer> <V453000> wouldnt be that simple
20:56:51  <PublicServer> <Mazur> Almost as easy as ships.
20:57:17  <PublicServer> <V453000> hm no you would still need local order groups for each SL/station
20:57:40  <PublicServer> <V453000> or
20:57:42  <PublicServer> <V453000> hm
20:58:15  <mfb-> "try to load at SRNW, if you don't load, refit to the next cargo and try again at the same station" :D
20:58:30  <PublicServer> <V453000> you would need orders for each station
20:58:39  <mfb-> no
20:58:46  <PublicServer> <V453000> I thought rather like ... refit to iron ore, do iron ore loop. If empty after ore loop, do coal
20:58:49  <mfb-> goto local depot => visit station again
20:59:14  <PublicServer> <V453000> yes but srnw trains dont visit station by orders
20:59:20  <mfb-> so what?
20:59:29  <PublicServer> <V453000> so when do you put depot order
21:00:03  <PublicServer> <mfb> ah...
21:00:06  <PublicServer> <mfb> I see the issue
21:00:20  <PublicServer> <mfb> hmm can be fixed
21:02:10  <PublicServer> <V453000> well lets leave that for later :)
21:02:25  <PublicServer> <V453000> just considering the uses of an universal wagon
21:03:39  <PublicServer> <Mazur> Yes, and how milk tastes with coal residu in it.
21:03:59  <PublicServer> <mfb> force the trains to do what you like with depots
21:04:10  <PublicServer> <mfb> "goto nearest depot" can be used on the whole map
21:04:28  <PublicServer> <V453000> XD
21:04:34  <PublicServer> <mfb> but it is inefficient like hell
21:11:44  <mfb-> !rcon set max_trains 1352
21:12:59  <PublicServer> <Mazur> The stacked tile is 7 lines now, I think.
21:13:13  <PublicServer> <mfb> 7?
21:13:24  <PublicServer> <mfb> one tunnel EW
21:13:31  <PublicServer> <mfb> 3 tunnels NS
21:13:37  <PublicServer> <Mazur> 4 tunnels, 2 ground, 1 bridge.
21:13:51  <PublicServer> <mfb> ah, the upper one has just 3 tunnels
21:14:24  *** Tray has quit IRC
21:15:49  <PublicServer> <Mazur> Oil goods PU should be frontscreen, that should scare the fuckers off.
21:16:04  <PublicServer> <mfb> :D
21:16:30  <PublicServer> <mfb> just take BBH04
21:16:34  <Chris_Booth> Mazur: you don't want noobs playing the archive?
21:16:38  <PublicServer> <Mazur> Or BBH04.
21:16:47  <Mazur> The game at all.
21:16:52  <PublicServer> <mfb> "what, your map is not covered like that?"
21:17:19  <PublicServer> <mfb> that would be amazing
21:17:38  <PublicServer> <mfb> something like BBH04, but over a much larger area
21:17:57  <Mazur> Chris_Booth, it may have escaped your notice, but occasionally, once in a blue moon, I do make remarks that, on the whole, need not be taken altogether seriously.
21:18:04  <PublicServer> *** Chris Booth joined the game
21:18:24  <PublicServer> <Chris Booth> blah Mazur\
21:18:27  <PublicServer> <Mazur> :-D
21:18:54  <PublicServer> <Mazur> I thought that was a beautiful sentence, myself.
21:19:16  <PublicServer> <Chris Booth> i didnt
21:19:28  <PublicServer> <Chris Booth> had to many clauses
21:25:34  <PublicServer> <Maraxus> gn
21:25:41  <PublicServer> <Sietse> night
21:25:43  <PublicServer> <Chris Booth> gn Maraxus
21:25:47  <PublicServer> *** Maraxus has left the game (leaving)
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21:28:11  <PublicServer> <V453000> yes BBH 04 looks nice :)
21:32:33  <PublicServer> <Chris Booth> sneeze
21:34:00  <Mazur> Took a screenshot of hte whole thing:\ \&\ Co.,\ 1st\ Jan\ 2376.png
21:34:21  <Chris_Booth> that URL is invalid
21:34:37  <Chris_Booth> you have '\' in it Mazur
21:34:55  <Mazur> Took a screenshot of hte whole thing: " & Co., 1st Jan 2376.png"
21:34:58  <sietse> change it to %20
21:35:38  <Mazur> And again:,%201st%20Jan%202376.png
21:36:01  <Mazur> Silleh me.
21:36:07  <Mazur> And again:,%201st%20Jan%202376.png
21:36:22  <hylje> that's better
21:37:14  <Chris_Booth> yay a working URL
21:39:32  <PublicServer> *** Mazur has left the game (leaving)
21:39:40  <PublicServer> <Chris Booth> I am off now
21:39:42  <PublicServer> <Chris Booth> nn
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21:41:04  <V453000> already want to archive Mazur or what :D
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21:41:49  <Mazur> No, just thought I'd take a shot in case something happened to it.
21:41:59  <V453000> lol
21:42:04  <V453000> what would happen to it
21:42:17  <hylje> an errant nuke?
21:42:30  <Mazur> Dunno, whatever chappie deleted that 10x100 area before?
21:46:07  <V453000> hm :> we still have autosaves :P
21:49:14  <mfb-> that would be useful for BBHs
21:49:43  <PublicServer> <mfb> just some SL connections and parts of one split were harmed
21:49:45  <PublicServer> <mfb> and the MLs of course
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22:03:01  <Jenk> @quickstart
22:03:02  <Webster> Quickstart - #openttdcoop Wiki -
22:03:15  <PublicServer> <Sietse> I am off
22:03:18  <PublicServer> <Sietse> gnight
22:03:24  <PublicServer> *** Sietse has joined spectators
22:03:33  <PublicServer> <mfb> good night
22:05:01  <V453000> 100% accurate meteo station :D
22:05:03  <Webster> Title: Roumenův Rouming - Welcome 27-03-2012 (at
22:05:36  <mfb-> :p
22:10:47  <PublicServer> *** V453000 has left the game (leaving)
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22:10:54  <V453000> night :)
22:16:59  <PublicServer> *** mfb has left the game (leaving)
22:19:07  <Jenk> !password
22:19:07  <PublicServer> Jenk: catnap
22:19:39  <PublicServer> *** Game still paused (number of players)
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