Log for #openttdcoop on 13th July 2012:
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07:56:19  <Dom__> !players
07:56:21  <PublicServer> Dom__: There are currently no clients connected to the server
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14:02:33  <Dom__> !password
14:02:33  <PublicServer> Dom__: kindle
14:02:55  <Dom__> !download
14:02:55  <PublicServer> Dom__: !download autostart|autottd|lin|lin64|osx|ottdau|source|win32|win64|win9x
14:02:55  <PublicServer> Dom__:
14:04:11  <PublicServer> *** Game still paused (number of players)
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14:36:42  <Sassafrass> !password
14:36:42  <PublicServer> Sassafrass: shoddy
14:36:53  <PublicServer> *** Game still paused (number of players)
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14:36:54  <Dom__> hey :)
14:36:58  <Sassafrass> hi
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14:37:06  <Dom__> have you found out how to build the pft?
14:37:30  <PublicServer> <Sassafrass> I think so, brb hot pocket
14:37:35  <Dom__> ok :)
14:42:12  <Sassafrass> back
14:43:07  <Dom__> ok :)
14:43:24  <Dom__> well anyway i'm trying to build a small srnw with unreachable wp's
14:43:33  <PublicServer> <Sassafrass> where?
14:43:44  <Dom__> own game xD
14:43:54  <PublicServer> <Sassafrass> cool
14:43:58  <Dom__> but the damn trains are not going to the pick stations
14:44:07  <Dom__> do i need to work with logic?
14:44:30  <PublicServer> <Sassafrass> I don't understand how it works tbh
14:44:40  <PublicServer> <Sassafrass> I wish I knew more about pathfinding for the trains
14:44:51  <PublicServer> <Sassafrass> can I see what you have?
14:45:25  <Dom__> well i just started its just a round track with a unreachable wp nothing special :) (put like 10 min work in it) xD
14:46:03  <PublicServer> <Sassafrass> that's about what I had
14:46:28  <Dom__> :D
14:46:41  <Dom__> im just trying it so i can maybe understand it xD
14:49:31  <PublicServer> *** Sassafrass has left the game (leaving)
14:59:15  <Dom__> i got it to work :=
14:59:20  <Dom__> :=)
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15:07:22  <V453000> Dom__: in 90% cases it is just penalties and playing with the pathfinder details
15:07:36  <Dom__> penalties?
15:07:49  <V453000> in other words, in order to make the trains go to the station, they must take that split as the best - for example the fastest way how to get to the waypoint
15:08:24  <V453000> every track has a penalty value -> longer track, more penalty. And there are some special things like stations, backwards 2wayPBS and other stuff which has extra high penalty
15:08:51  <Dom__> is there a blog on that? or something in the wiki?
15:08:57  <planetmaker> Dom__, the path a train takes is calculated. That is done by assigning a value to each tile
15:09:12  <V453000> there is @@srnw
15:09:13  <Webster> srnw: Self-regulating Network, see also:
15:09:15  <planetmaker> that depends on the track type, curvature, slope, signals, station/waypoint/level crossing
15:09:17  <planetmaker> etc
15:09:32  <planetmaker> and also the signal state as well whether occupied by a rail vehicle
15:09:40  <V453000> the exact logical way how it works can differ with various srnw types
15:09:42  <planetmaker> The path with the lowest penalty is chosen
15:10:13  <Dom__> hmm ok i built a small version of the SRNW shown on the wiki site
15:10:25  <Dom__> i still do not know what do you mean with penalty?
15:10:42  <V453000> uh
15:10:47  <V453000> when trains choose where to go
15:11:22  <V453000> each path has some total penalty value - every track, station, everything has some penalty value
15:11:34  <Dom__> ok
15:11:35  <V453000> and trains choose the path with the lowest total penalty value
15:11:37  <planetmaker> Dom__, don't think of "penalty" maybe. Just think of "value". And the path with the lowest value wins
15:11:37  <V453000> makes sense?
15:11:48  <Dom__> yes :)
15:11:56  <V453000> good :)
15:12:05  <Dom__> so how can i change the "value" so that trains go into another pick station?
15:12:07  <planetmaker> And, btw, the path is decided anew on every branching of tracks
15:12:40  <planetmaker> you make the other paths "harder". E.g. adding pointless waypoints, level crossings, bridges, or backward path signals
15:12:57  <planetmaker> or simply making them longer ;-)
15:13:53  <Dom__> ahhh :) ok so if i make the way to the pick station with less signals (so that only 2 trains are allowed) the others are going to go to the next station?
15:14:00  <V453000> <- good example how to do it
15:14:07  <V453000> you ensure that always sooner split == better path
15:14:09  <planetmaker> not necessarily, Dom__
15:14:20  <V453000> as it is always shorter
15:14:25  <planetmaker> Depends really on the overall way the network looks and the alternative paths
15:14:26  <V453000> shorter tracks first, in other words
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15:14:37  <V453000> so if trains want to get to the waypoint, they will try to split ASAP
15:15:51  <V453000> you can of course use various kinds of logic or just increasing the penalty of the main track with backwards 2way PBS signals, but this works perfectly
15:16:21  <Dom__> its just a small circle because i want to know how the unreachble wp's work :D
15:16:33  <Dom__> i will test it in 2 min and see if it works :D
15:16:53  <planetmaker> Dom__, a train will try to come as close to its destination as possible, even when it cannot reach it
15:17:10  <planetmaker> but it won't stop until it reaches it
15:17:13  <V453000> I think you should start with reachable waypoitn first tbh
15:18:07  <Dom__> i did and done it :D
15:19:16  <Dom__> with reachables
15:20:42  <V453000> ok :)  then the unreachable waypoints should be exactly the same
15:21:05  <V453000> but instead of making trains reach them, you just divert the trains to the station with a PF trap
15:24:26  <Dom__> the station needs the trap or the way to the station?
15:24:31  <Dom__> trap?
15:25:58  <V453000> a pf trap makes the waypoint seen, but not reachable
15:26:05  <V453000> so trains go where they are told to, but cant reach it
15:26:58  <Dom__> hmm
15:27:21  <Dom__> so how can i build such a trap?
15:33:24  <Dom__> so i did it :)
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18:36:42  <rb98700> Hi!
18:36:59  <rb98700> !players
18:37:01  <PublicServer> rb98700: There are currently no clients connected to the server
18:37:11  <rb98700> !password
18:37:11  <PublicServer> rb98700: shoddy
18:38:06  <PublicServer> *** Game still paused (number of players)
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18:39:22  <rb98700> Hello?
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18:42:48  <LoPo> ey
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18:52:59  <Sassafrass> hi
18:56:16  <rb98700> Hi!
18:56:31  <rb98700> !password
18:56:31  <PublicServer> rb98700: shoddy
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19:08:47  <Dom__> btw Thanks V and Planetmaker for the info before :)
19:09:00  <planetmaker> np :-)
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19:13:26  <PublicServer> <Ryton> hi there rt98700 & co
19:13:47  <Dom__> hey
19:22:48  <rb98700> Hi!
19:23:36  <PublicServer> <rt98700> Man... My SL is a nightmare... ><
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19:27:58  <PublicServer> <Ryton> m = Maraxus?
19:28:06  <PublicServer> <Ryton> good advice :-)
19:28:32  <PublicServer> <rt98700> Hi!
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20:01:03  <Firestar> when will this game be finished?
20:01:39  <Firestar> !players
20:01:41  <PublicServer> Firestar: Client 4927 (Orange) is rt98700, in company 1 (New Sefingley Transport)
20:01:41  <PublicServer> Firestar: Client 4931 (Orange) is Ryton, in company 1 (New Sefingley Transport)
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20:04:00  <Dilandau> !password
20:04:00  <PublicServer> Dilandau: salute
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20:04:27  <PublicServer> <Dilandau> hi
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20:04:35  <PublicServer> <rt98700> hi
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20:16:22  <mfb-> hi
20:16:29  <Dom__> hey
20:16:32  <PublicServer> <rt98700> hi
20:16:43  <PublicServer> *** mfb joined the game
20:17:51  <PublicServer> <mfb> hmm
20:18:01  <PublicServer> <mfb> somehow everything apart from sugar went away at SLH05
20:18:12  <PublicServer> <mfb> oh, and a single bubbles train, nice
20:18:38  <PublicServer> <mfb> 4 bubble trains, hmm
20:24:24  <PublicServer> <Ryton> a and gate
20:24:43  <PublicServer> <mfb> ?
20:24:45  <PublicServer> <Ryton> can be made with one not & many ors?
20:24:55  <PublicServer> <rt98700> What?
20:24:57  <PublicServer> <mfb> yes
20:24:57  <PublicServer> <Ryton> I'm still fiddling with my gatborough area stations
20:25:15  <PublicServer> <Ryton> I think i need a second not gate then
20:25:18  <PublicServer> <mfb> A and B = not (not A or not B)
20:25:31  <PublicServer> <Ryton> ah, then you need 2?
20:25:34  <PublicServer> <mfb> but why do you want to do that?
20:25:40  <PublicServer> <mfb> we have a free "and"
20:25:42  <PublicServer> <mfb> assuming red=1
20:25:48  <PublicServer> <mfb> and we have a cheap "or"
20:26:22  <PublicServer> <Ryton> red = 1 ... hmm :p that sounds easier to build it indeed :P
20:26:44  <PublicServer> <mfb> wait
20:26:46  <PublicServer> <Ryton> I use green =1
20:27:10  <PublicServer> <Ryton> (i think :p)
20:27:28  <PublicServer> <mfb> see !logic training ground
20:28:26  <PublicServer> <mfb> right
20:28:36  <PublicServer> <Ryton> ok that could be usefull :-)
20:28:38  <PublicServer> <Ryton> I never used it
20:28:52  <PublicServer> <mfb> <- my invention :p
20:28:59  <PublicServer> <Ryton> so or A or (not B) can be done too then
20:29:05  <PublicServer> <Ryton> hehe :-))
20:29:08  <PublicServer> <mfb> right
20:29:10  <PublicServer> <Ryton> lets try it :-)
20:29:49  <Dom__> !password
20:29:49  <PublicServer> Dom__: cretin
20:30:01  <PublicServer> *** Dom joined the game
20:30:17  <PublicServer> <Dom> i had to check out what you are building :D
20:34:13  <PublicServer> <Ryton> yippie, works with £2 not gates :-))
20:34:24  <PublicServer> <Ryton> 2*
20:35:02  <mfb-> interesting concept
20:35:06  <mfb-> what?
20:35:07  <PublicServer> <Ryton> but  should be possible to simpliy
20:35:25  <PublicServer> <Ryton> mfb: the 4 tile station you advised
20:35:39  <PublicServer> <Ryton> I had some trouble getting it working with just 1
20:36:01  <PublicServer> <mfb> hmm can't find it
20:36:08  <PublicServer> <Ryton> v1.3
20:36:22  <PublicServer> <mfb> ah thanks
20:36:23  <PublicServer> <Ryton> or "working now"
20:39:37  <PublicServer> <mfb> ehm...
20:39:39  <PublicServer> <mfb> no
20:39:42  <PublicServer> <mfb> that failed
20:39:48  <PublicServer> <Ryton> yes it did
20:39:59  <PublicServer> <mfb> you need the additional "or"
20:40:02  <PublicServer> <Ryton> but why? :-)
20:40:14  <PublicServer> <Ryton> failed again
20:40:16  <PublicServer> <Ryton> lolz
20:40:27  <PublicServer> <mfb> if the ML trains are there, a single full dummy triggers the NOT
20:40:38  <PublicServer> <Ryton> ah k
20:40:45  <PublicServer> <Ryton> true
20:41:04  <PublicServer> <mfb> may I build the OR? :D
20:41:11  <PublicServer> <Ryton> sure
20:41:12  <PublicServer> <Ryton> I made space at the left
20:41:18  <PublicServer> <Ryton> but I ouldnt know what to connect :pp
20:42:04  <PublicServer> <Ryton> fast :-)!
20:42:30  <PublicServer> <Ryton> looks good :-))
20:42:36  <PublicServer> <Dom> where?
20:42:47  <PublicServer> <Ryton> at "reversal idea v1.3
20:42:49  <PublicServer> <mfb> "reversal idea v1.3"
20:43:07  <PublicServer> <Dom> ahh thx :)
20:43:21  <PublicServer> <Ryton> woa, quite a lot of trains waiiting :s
20:43:51  <PublicServer> <Ryton> fixed the reason
20:44:47  <PublicServer> <mfb> what happened?
20:44:53  <PublicServer> <mfb> ah ok
20:44:53  <PublicServer> <Ryton> I changed one signal
20:44:56  <PublicServer> <Ryton> was combo :-)
20:45:08  <PublicServer> <Ryton> might give problems, i thought
20:45:13  <PublicServer> <mfb> my mistake
20:45:17  <PublicServer> <Ryton> np :-)
20:45:28  <PublicServer> <Ryton> thanks for fixing, I wouldnt have done it this fast/nice
20:46:35  <PublicServer> <Ryton> anyway
20:46:37  <PublicServer> <Ryton> I'm off
20:46:43  <PublicServer> <Ryton> thx again, cu later all
20:46:45  <PublicServer> <mfb> cu
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20:51:27  <PublicServer> <mfb> my SLH has some quantum effects
20:51:33  <PublicServer> <mfb> as long as I watch, it works
20:51:48  <PublicServer> <mfb> if I stop watching, it is in a superposition of "working + not working"
20:52:02  <PublicServer> <mfb> and if I begin watching again, some trains are missing
20:52:18  <Chris_Booth> mfb-: there are a few issues on .stable if you want to sort them out
20:52:39  <mfb-> issues?
20:53:09  *** Ryton has quit IRC
20:53:12  <Chris_Booth> someone steeling a company
20:53:17  <Chris_Booth> and a new map request
20:53:21  <Dom__> yep :D
20:53:24  <mfb-> <- no idea :p
20:53:38  <Chris_Booth> ^ me agrees
20:53:44  <mfb-> concerning company security: password?
20:54:04  <Dom__> the guy left already ..
20:54:06  <Chris_Booth> concering some fucking noob who didnt set a password
20:54:12  <Chris_Booth> I told him tuff shit
20:54:22  <Dom__> xD
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21:09:16  <PublicServer> <mfb> slunningbury collects toy shops :D
21:10:27  <PublicServer> <Dom> is the v1.3 station working?
21:14:10  <mfb-> it should
21:14:45  <PublicServer> <mfb> it is waiting for the second train
21:14:56  <PublicServer> <mfb> oh...
21:14:57  <PublicServer> <mfb> signal error
21:27:35  <PublicServer> <rt98700> Oh Damage! ><
21:28:10  <Chris_Booth> Bang?
21:41:02  <PublicServer> *** mfb has joined spectators
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21:41:10  <PublicServer> <rt98700> ><
21:41:21  <mfb-> anything important?
21:42:19  <PublicServer> <rt98700> No... It is just that I yet have a lot to do... ^_^
21:42:37  <PublicServer> <rt98700> Np, man... I'll read some books.
21:42:41  <PublicServer> <rt98700> Hehe
21:42:45  <PublicServer> <rt98700> :) Thanks
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22:39:58  * dihedral playes silent night for the #openttdcoop server
22:47:32  <TWerkhoven> ssshhh, you'll wake everyone
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