Log for #openttdcoop on 21st October 2012:
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01:46:38  <Woodbutcher> !password
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04:02:06  <Conduct7> !password
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09:41:41  <V453000> !password
09:41:42  <PublicServer> V453000: gusted
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09:43:34  <PublicServer> <V453000> hi
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09:43:46  <PublicServer> <Tray> hi
09:47:06  <PublicServer> <V453000> needs more trains :)
09:47:28  <PublicServer> <Tray> some areas have a lack of a SLH too
09:47:36  <PublicServer> <V453000> yes idk what are people doing this game
09:47:47  <PublicServer> <V453000> if they are just afraid of the plan or what
09:49:37  <PublicServer> <V453000> I should do something with SLH 04 :) a bit of jams
09:49:44  <PublicServer> <V453000> but that just shows the lack of SLHs indeed
09:49:51  <PublicServer> <V453000> it isnt the ML but SL entrances/exits
09:50:03  <PublicServer> <V453000> just add some if you like
09:51:25  <PublicServer> <V453000> k that would be enough lets see if it catches some attention
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10:11:31  <PublicServer> <V453000> hi :)
10:11:35  <PublicServer> <Jam35> hi
10:12:40  <PublicServer> <V453000> sidelines need doing if you want
10:12:47  <PublicServer> <V453000> I already posted some SLH signs around the map
10:13:30  <PublicServer> <Jam35> ok ... but very sluggish here
10:13:44  <PublicServer> <V453000> that is normal
10:13:58  <PublicServer> <V453000> FIRS  takes quite a bit of calculations probably
10:14:09  <PublicServer> <V453000> seeing that we have 850 trains only
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10:19:33  <Jam35> ...will try again later :)
10:19:41  <PublicServer> <V453000> see you then :)
10:19:47  <Jam35> motionless screens are not fun
10:20:18  <PublicServer> <V453000> that badly?
10:21:06  <Jam35> yeah really slow
10:21:31  <PublicServer> <V453000> it is okay for me but there is some significant spikes
10:21:32  <Jam35> there were gaps of speed if you know what I mean
10:21:39  <PublicServer> <V453000> but I have beast cpu
10:21:43  <Jam35> :D
10:21:55  <Jam35> guess that's where we differ
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13:03:19  <V453000> !password
13:03:19  <PublicServer> V453000: martyr
13:03:29  <PublicServer> *** Game still paused (number of players)
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13:03:41  <V453000> !unpause
13:03:41  <PublicServer> *** V453000 has unpaused the server. (Use !auto to set it back.)
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15:08:21  <PublicServer> <V453000> hy
15:09:48  <PublicServer> <Chris Booth> hi
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15:36:22  <V453000> !auto
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16:37:20  <XeryusTC> !players
16:37:23  <PublicServer> XeryusTC: There are currently no clients connected to the server
16:44:27  <Chris_Booth> hi XeryusTC
16:44:37  <XeryusTC> hey Chris_Booth
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17:15:03  <Jerik> Is anyone familiar with Town Growth Challenge? My trains don't seem to have cars that can carry the cargo.
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17:34:40  <Jerik> Oh crap there was a missing NewGRF. :(
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18:33:31  <Webster> Latest update from openttd: OpenTTD 1.2.3-RC1 <> || OpenTTD 1.2.2 <> || OpenTTD 1.2.2-RC1 <> || OpenTTD 1.2.1 <> || OpenTTD 1.2.1-RC1 <>
18:34:39  *** Woodbutcher has joined #openttdcoop
18:34:39  <Webster> Latest update from dznews: NewGRF Meta Language - NML 0.2.4 released <> || DevZone Help Center - Unresolveable Issues <> || OpenGFX - OpenGFX 0.4.5 <> || DevZone Help Center - Hardware Check <> || World Airliners Set - Release of Version 0.1 <>
18:34:41  <Webster> Latest update from blog: Creating Maps <> || Scheduled downtime of #openttdcoop Wednesday 3am CEST – 3pm CEST <> || Fun with NoCarGoal <> || New member: LoPo <> || Orderless Multi Cargo SRNW – My first article! <> || Advanced Building Revue 12: Overflows III <> || Next on the list: industries! <> || Thank you & Good bye <> || New member: Mazur <> || Titlegame competition – now voting! <>
18:34:53  <Woodbutcher> !password
18:34:53  <PublicServer> Woodbutcher: tolled
18:35:31  <PublicServer> *** Game still paused (number of players)
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18:38:53  <PublicServer> *** Game still paused (number of players)
18:38:53  <PublicServer> <V453000> hello
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18:38:57  <PublicServer> <Woodbutcher> hiya
18:40:03  <PublicServer> <Woodbutcher> is this using the FIRS?
18:41:09  <PublicServer> <V453000> yes
18:42:00  <PublicServer> <Woodbutcher> neat stuff but a bit overwhelming for me
18:42:38  <PublicServer> <V453000> it is really painful to plan for
18:42:48  <PublicServer> <V453000> unless you have a special plan like this which is trying to do everything automatically
18:42:56  <PublicServer> <V453000> we dont really use FIRS too much
18:43:02  <PublicServer> <V453000> the original industries still work best
18:43:57  <PublicServer> <Woodbutcher> i know this is some sort of logic but what does it do at 'CD Entrance"?
18:45:05  <PublicServer> <V453000> ah that
18:45:19  <PublicServer> <V453000> well this mechanism specifically makes a perfect 1->6 split
18:45:25  <PublicServer> <V453000> join the company so you can see movement
18:45:43  <PublicServer> *** Woodbutcher has joined company #1
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18:45:47  <PublicServer> <V453000> the idea is simple, there are two gates which negate each other, by having a train pass the state swaps
18:45:54  <PublicServer> <V453000> that is for the 1->2
18:46:12  <PublicServer> <V453000> the 1->3 uses 3 memories at each end which gets green whenever a train goes at some other choice
18:46:28  <PublicServer> <V453000> so basically one path opens the next one in the cycle
18:46:46  <PublicServer> <V453000> the point here is to distribute supplies from the 6 farms which are connected to this station
18:46:56  <PublicServer> <V453000> the whole idea of the station is a bit more complicated
18:47:46  <PublicServer> <V453000> when trains come to a farm, they normally <unload and leave empty>. But here as there are 6 farms you have to use 2 waypoints and let trains pick any of the 6 farms - according to where the 1->6 sends them
18:48:21  <PublicServer> <V453000> when you cannot do <unload and leave empty order>, you have to make trains refit to cargoes which cannot be picked up, in this case building materials and alcohol, as seen in train orders
18:49:03  <PublicServer> <V453000> which gets to the main idea of the whole game - trains refit, but only one wagon is universal, able to carry supplies - with which the train returns to the primary
18:49:53  <PublicServer> <V453000> does that make sense at least a bit?
18:50:12  <PublicServer> <Woodbutcher> yeah i get the general idea
18:51:02  <PublicServer> <V453000> it basically just abuses the NUTS wagons :)
18:52:52  <PublicServer> <Woodbutcher> funny and I'm still trying to understand the thing chris booth did on the other server lol
18:53:04  <PublicServer> <V453000> what was that
18:53:34  <PublicServer> <V453000> or how did he call it
18:53:37  <PublicServer> <Woodbutcher> can I build a sample?
18:53:43  <PublicServer> <V453000> of course
18:53:54  <PublicServer> <Woodbutcher> ok
18:55:40  <PublicServer> <Woodbutcher> at !here
18:56:10  <PublicServer> <V453000> you mean the 2way signals after PBS
18:56:12  <PublicServer> <V453000> or something else
18:56:14  <PublicServer> <Woodbutcher> yes
18:56:24  <PublicServer> <Woodbutcher> and it flip flopped tracks
18:56:28  <PublicServer> <Woodbutcher> like perfectly
18:56:38  <PublicServer> <Woodbutcher> i've tried to do it before without sucess
18:56:58  <PublicServer> <V453000> that was just luck happening randomly
18:57:04  <PublicServer> <V453000> anyway the general use of 2way signals with PBS:
18:57:18  <PublicServer> <V453000> PBS is dumb. And it looks forward for paths to choose
18:57:32  <PublicServer> <V453000> sometimes it happens that it either reacts slowly, or just decides not to go to some path for no real reason
18:57:42  <PublicServer> <V453000> the 2ways make it decide faster, and always decide
18:58:02  <PublicServer> <Woodbutcher> hmm ok
18:58:09  <PublicServer> <V453000> I use it in one special form of joiners, let me see where it is
18:58:17  <PublicServer> <V453000> alright SLH04
18:58:35  <PublicServer> <V453000> self explanatorily called PBS -> 2way
18:58:57  <PublicServer> <V453000> the point is, trains at the PBS already choose based on which entry signal (therefore which priority) is red
18:59:15  <PublicServer> <V453000> if there was not the direct visibility of the 2way, it would do something else
18:59:29  <PublicServer> <V453000> as in, it would choose based on which waiting bay is free (the space after the 2way)
18:59:48  <PublicServer> <V453000> of course it is generally nicer to have trains able to see ahead
19:00:03  <PublicServer> <V453000> that is just an example of PBS behavior
19:00:21  <PublicServer> <V453000> the technique itself is not as ultimately usable as it might seem to
19:01:20  <PublicServer> <V453000> see the point?
19:01:26  <PublicServer> <Woodbutcher> trying to
19:01:30  <PublicServer> <V453000> I can explain it more decriptively with an example if you want
19:01:40  <PublicServer> <Woodbutcher> sure if you want
19:01:55  <PublicServer> <V453000> at !here again
19:02:02  <PublicServer> <Woodbutcher> ok watching
19:02:17  <PublicServer> <V453000> they can be 1way for now
19:02:35  <PublicServer> <V453000> now, lets say we have a choice from 3 directions
19:02:50  <PublicServer> <V453000> now what if 2 out of 3 are red
19:03:32  <PublicServer> <V453000> as you can see the PBS looks directly at the signal
19:03:46  <PublicServer> <V453000> while the entry signal looks which waiting bay is free
19:03:49  <PublicServer> <V453000> (all 3 of them atm)
19:04:03  <PublicServer> <V453000> the advantage is, the PBS train should go to the green part
19:05:01  <PublicServer> <Woodbutcher> but if that was a one way signal it wouldn't?
19:05:19  <PublicServer> <V453000> most likely not as reliably
19:05:23  <PublicServer> <V453000> if the paths were too different
19:05:37  <PublicServer> <V453000> here all 3 are close to each other but in a real hub it is a lot more different
19:05:51  <PublicServer> <V453000> I will simulate that with some penalties
19:06:01  <PublicServer> <V453000> lets make them oneway first and try to create the issue
19:08:05  <PublicServer> <V453000> ok it is actually happening as well
19:08:43  <PublicServer> <V453000> if you look carefully
19:08:47  <PublicServer> <V453000> the left track is picked when the signal is red
19:08:54  <PublicServer> <V453000> see
19:08:58  <PublicServer> <V453000> that shouldnt happen
19:09:08  <PublicServer> <V453000> lets see what this does
19:09:30  <PublicServer> <V453000> now the only case when it can be picked is when the right one is red
19:09:32  <PublicServer> <V453000> mfh
19:09:54  <PublicServer> <V453000> well this will do the example
19:10:05  <PublicServer> <V453000> now no train will pick either of the two red paths
19:10:15  <PublicServer> <V453000> just because a red 2way is extremely hated
19:10:29  <PublicServer> <V453000> it is something similar to what overflows work with
19:10:45  <PublicServer> <V453000> but just a bit different as it isnt exactly a dead end with PBS
19:10:52  <PublicServer> <V453000> see what it does?
19:10:55  <PublicServer> <Woodbutcher> i had a problem with an overflow station and I guess its the same reason
19:11:02  <PublicServer> <Woodbutcher> yeah I think so
19:11:08  <PublicServer> <V453000> PBS generally wont work in overflows
19:11:14  <PublicServer> <V453000> unless penalties are set very carefully
19:11:17  <PublicServer> <V453000> therefore if you are "lucky", it can work
19:11:21  <PublicServer> <V453000> generally nto
19:11:23  <PublicServer> <V453000> not
19:11:31  <PublicServer> <Woodbutcher> well i didn't have PBS
19:11:49  <PublicServer> <Woodbutcher> but it didn't pick the overflow track like i thought it would
19:12:04  <PublicServer> <V453000> the so-called 2way eol feature which makes it work, has a setting
19:12:08  <PublicServer> <V453000> which must be turned on
19:12:14  <PublicServer> <V453000> it isnt openttd default anymore
19:12:28  <PublicServer> <Woodbutcher> oh so I might have that off?
19:12:38  <PublicServer> <Woodbutcher> or does the server set that?
19:12:49  <PublicServer> <V453000> something like yapf.rail_firstred_twoway_eol
19:12:59  <PublicServer> <V453000> it is a setting within the savegame
19:13:07  <PublicServer> <Woodbutcher> ok
19:13:09  <PublicServer> <V453000> so if you are on a server, it is a setting of that map
19:13:35  <PublicServer> <V453000> sometimes people who create maps have broken configs in which case it will be off
19:14:21  <PublicServer> <V453000> I noted it in the book on the blog
19:14:31  <PublicServer> <V453000> or however to call that text
19:14:49  <PublicServer> <Woodbutcher> ok
19:15:32  <PublicServer> <V453000> want to build as SLH?
19:15:38  <PublicServer> <Woodbutcher> can I show you the station I had?
19:15:44  <PublicServer> <V453000> of course
19:18:10  <PublicServer> <Woodbutcher> ok this didn't work like I thought it would
19:18:52  <PublicServer> <V453000> yeah
19:18:58  <PublicServer> <V453000> that wouldnt
19:19:00  <PublicServer> <V453000> try this
19:19:06  <PublicServer> <Woodbutcher> i don't under stand why
19:19:32  <PublicServer> <Woodbutcher> just moving the signals a tile matters?
19:19:40  <PublicServer> <V453000> for some reaosn the 2way needs to be close to the decision point
19:19:42  <PublicServer> <V453000> yeah
19:19:45  <PublicServer> <V453000> try it
19:19:59  <PublicServer> <Woodbutcher> ok i will
19:20:39  <PublicServer> <V453000> lets see
19:20:49  <PublicServer> <Woodbutcher> i actually syncd the platforms which worked but I think it's because the signals got moved
19:21:01  <PublicServer> <V453000> yes definitely
19:21:10  <PublicServer> <V453000> yayy
19:21:21  <PublicServer> <Woodbutcher> nice
19:21:31  <PublicServer> <Woodbutcher> I didn't realize it was that sensitiv
19:21:34  <PublicServer> <Woodbutcher> sensitive
19:22:59  <PublicServer> <V453000> playing with 2ways, lost trains and such things is extremely detailed
19:23:18  <PublicServer> <Woodbutcher> yeah i'm finding that out
19:23:41  <PublicServer> <V453000> :)
19:23:52  <PublicServer> <V453000> generally takes a lot of experimenting
19:24:02  <PublicServer> <V453000> you could just ask me in the end, of course
19:24:29  <PublicServer> <Woodbutcher> well ya I will, you might regret saything that :)
19:25:28  <PublicServer> <V453000> no :D
19:25:30  <PublicServer> <Woodbutcher> thanks for your help
19:25:32  <PublicServer> <V453000> you are welcome
19:26:35  <PublicServer> <Woodbutcher> is the other server up?
19:27:47  <PublicServer> <V453000> the welcome server? idk
19:28:01  <PublicServer> <Woodbutcher> ok
19:28:41  <PublicServer> <V453000> I dont really care about that server as much as this
19:29:04  <PublicServer> <V453000> given that you have all the stuff as archives and so on, the building style develops for years
19:29:12  <PublicServer> <Woodbutcher> well that's more my 'speed' at the moment
19:29:58  <PublicServer> <Woodbutcher> but I understand your point
19:34:09  <PublicServer> <Woodbutcher> ok I gotta go, thanks again
19:34:10  <PublicServer> <Woodbutcher> cya
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