Log for #openttdcoop on 24th October 2012:
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02:02:29  <Dom_> !password
02:02:29  <PublicServer> Dom_: ampler
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06:55:25  <V453000> !password
06:55:25  <PublicServer> V453000: ampler
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07:26:08  <V453000> !unpause
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09:00:25  <V453000> !auto
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09:15:17  <Nickshanks> should link to [[Distant-join stations]]
09:21:51  <V453000> not our wiki
09:22:03  <V453000> tell that in #openttd
09:23:22  <Nickshanks> Ok, thx
09:23:46  <Nickshanks> Is that room on this server?
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10:05:49  <Dom_> !password
10:05:49  <PublicServer> Dom_: outrun
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11:11:27  <V453000> !password
11:11:27  <PublicServer> V453000: wilted
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13:03:24  <V453000> !unpause
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13:34:06  <V453000> Dom_: come see soemthing
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13:36:42  <V453000> mh
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14:15:57  <Dom_> !password
14:15:57  <PublicServer> Dom_: wilted
14:16:26  <PublicServer> <Dom> hi
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14:16:30  <PublicServer> <Dom> yeah i saw it
14:16:48  <PublicServer> *** Dom has joined company #1
14:17:17  <PublicServer> <V453000> 5 mins brb
14:17:23  <PublicServer> <Dom> oh ok
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14:19:37  <Woodbutcher> !password
14:19:37  <PublicServer> Woodbutcher: wilted
14:20:42  <PublicServer> <V453000> k im here
14:20:44  <PublicServer> <V453000> first thing
14:20:59  <PublicServer> <V453000> PBS->2way is not the same as presignals in signal layout
14:21:13  <PublicServer> *** Woodbutcher joined the game
14:21:14  <PublicServer> <Dom> ok why?
14:21:16  <PublicServer> <V453000> always, allllwayyysss you have to look where will trains stop
14:21:27  <PublicServer> <Woodbutcher> hi guys
14:21:30  <PublicServer> <V453000> for example example
14:21:32  <PublicServer> <V453000> hi
14:21:42  <PublicServer> <V453000> univ tracks can help us here with that
14:21:46  <PublicServer> <V453000> train stops here
14:21:54  <PublicServer> <V453000> the 2way there makes another train go in
14:21:58  <PublicServer> <V453000> which we obviously do not want
14:22:08  <PublicServer> <Dom> yes
14:22:08  <PublicServer> <V453000> so the correct is this
14:22:14  <PublicServer> <V453000> same for the second choice
14:22:21  <PublicServer> <V453000> there it is a bit harder
14:22:25  <PublicServer> <V453000> as there are 2 options
14:22:27  <PublicServer> <Dom> so the double signal has to be a bit more in?
14:22:29  <PublicServer> <V453000> first one is
14:22:43  <PublicServer> <V453000> of course, it must not exceed where the train is
14:22:49  <PublicServer> <V453000> otherwise it creates a new waiting space
14:22:59  <PublicServer> <V453000> I will show you how I mark waiting spaces later
14:23:01  <PublicServer> <Dom> ok
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14:23:16  <PublicServer> <V453000> this thing is exactly 5 tiles which is good
14:23:20  <PublicServer> <V453000> but the problem is
14:23:23  <PublicServer> <V453000> this
14:23:29  <PublicServer> <V453000> the train can stop also elsewhere
14:23:43  <PublicServer> <V453000> so the last signal must be there
14:23:57  <PublicServer> <Dom> ok
14:24:04  <PublicServer> <Woodbutcher> sorry where ya looking?
14:24:06  <PublicServer> <V453000> this way
14:24:09  <PublicServer> <V453000> wood drop
14:24:17  <PublicServer> <V453000> or wood butchery if you will
14:24:19  <PublicServer> <V453000> :)
14:24:27  <PublicServer> <V453000> now same for the other choices
14:24:29  <PublicServer> <Dom> and the same on the other merge?
14:24:35  <PublicServer> <V453000> sort of
14:24:38  <PublicServer> <V453000> 2 points for standing again
14:24:56  <PublicServer> <V453000> now,
14:25:06  <PublicServer> <V453000> entry signal is a signal where trains are supposed to stop
14:25:16  <PublicServer> <V453000> so it can also be used to mark waiting spaces
14:25:30  <PublicServer> <Dom> how do you mean mark?
14:25:36  <PublicServer> <V453000> like a marker
14:25:46  <PublicServer> <Dom> oh ok
14:25:48  <PublicServer> <V453000> look at where I placed them
14:25:58  <PublicServer> <V453000> positions in which trains can stop
14:26:12  <PublicServer> <Dom> yes
14:26:19  <PublicServer> <V453000> in this case we can afford something a bit different - we have 5 tiles from teh join
14:26:37  <PublicServer> <V453000> those
14:26:47  <PublicServer> <V453000> trains can stop there, too
14:27:01  <PublicServer> <V453000> either way as you can see, we have space remaining for presignals
14:27:03  <PublicServer> <V453000> so we can use those
14:27:42  <PublicServer> <Dom> so is is better to use pre signals then?
14:27:45  <PublicServer> <V453000> moral is, always measure waiting bays
14:27:53  <PublicServer> <Dom> ok will do
14:27:55  <PublicServer> <V453000> it is basically the same, but if you can use presignals
14:28:11  <PublicServer> <V453000> the points where trains stop are extremely important to care about
14:28:17  <PublicServer> <V453000> you can make things a lot more efficiently that way
14:28:23  <PublicServer> <V453000> lets show you when expanding the station
14:28:47  <PublicServer> <V453000> might not be a bad idea to rebuild it
14:28:49  <PublicServer> <Dom> could we expand the station in the evening pls?
14:28:52  <PublicServer> <Dom> true :)
14:29:02  <PublicServer> <V453000> sure
14:29:08  <PublicServer> <Dom> ok
14:29:15  <PublicServer> <Dom> thank you!
14:29:25  <PublicServer> <V453000> I might make a temporary solution but lets do the proper one when you want
14:29:47  <PublicServer> <V453000> yeah I will just add a temp 3rd
14:29:53  <PublicServer> <Dom> ok
14:30:11  <PublicServer> <Dom> anyway im gone  bb
14:30:11  <PublicServer> <V453000> this will be easy, want to participate Woodbutcher?
14:30:14  <PublicServer> <V453000> cya
14:30:20  <PublicServer> *** Dom has left the game (leaving)
14:30:22  <PublicServer> <Woodbutcher> cya
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14:30:41  <PublicServer> <Woodbutcher> um ok, where are you again?
14:31:00  <PublicServer> <V453000> wood station
14:31:06  <PublicServer> <V453000> bottom corner of the map
14:31:52  <PublicServer> <V453000> this will be our 3rd
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14:32:26  <PublicServer> <V453000> you can add 4 platforms to the station if you want
14:32:28  <PublicServer> <V453000> with the new line
14:32:42  <PublicServer> <Woodbutcher> i'm still trying to find what station you are talking about
14:33:42  <PublicServer> <Woodbutcher> ah see i was nearby but it said textile/ironworks so that through me off
14:34:44  <PublicServer> <V453000> alright
14:34:55  <PublicServer> <V453000> wood going to iron works is a bit odd inded
14:34:59  <PublicServer> <V453000> anyway,
14:35:05  <PublicServer> <V453000> want to give it a try?
14:35:28  <PublicServer> <Woodbutcher> give what a try exactly?
14:35:38  <PublicServer> <V453000> there is a !3rd line
14:35:48  <PublicServer> <V453000> add that to the station
14:36:10  <PublicServer> <Woodbutcher> ah
14:36:37  <PublicServer> <V453000> this is real easy we will do something harder after that
14:36:45  <PublicServer> <Woodbutcher> lol
14:37:25  <PublicServer> <V453000> I will give you a hint, add 6 platforms
14:37:51  <PublicServer> <Woodbutcher> and terraforming is ok?
14:38:29  <PublicServer> <V453000> you dont need to feel guilty now
14:38:59  <PublicServer> <Woodbutcher> i wouldn't feel guilty just wondering if it was ok or not :)
14:39:06  <PublicServer> <V453000> generally is
14:39:13  <PublicServer> <V453000> depends on the reason
14:40:18  <V453000> !rcon set max_trains 1400
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14:42:31  <PublicServer> <V453000> want to use skype?
14:42:49  <PublicServer> <Woodbutcher> i would but my mic is messed up
14:42:52  <PublicServer> <V453000> k nevermind then
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14:43:11  <PublicServer> <Woodbutcher> i need to buy a new headset
14:43:21  <PublicServer> <V453000> k, I should ask you why did you make 2 entrances for each 2 platforms
14:43:28  <PublicServer> <V453000> but I know you just took it from the other half, right?
14:43:42  <PublicServer> <Woodbutcher> yeah  i'm just copying what's already there
14:43:44  <PublicServer> <V453000> everything you build needs to have a reason
14:43:51  <PublicServer> <Woodbutcher> or trying to
14:43:57  <PublicServer> <V453000> making an X of 2 is typically for 2 lines
14:44:03  <PublicServer> <V453000> so each of the incoming 2 lines gets 1 of the X
14:44:09  <PublicServer> <V453000> does that make any sense?
14:44:19  <PublicServer> <Woodbutcher> yeah
14:44:21  <PublicServer> <V453000> the current entrance is a bit odd but that is the general code
14:44:23  <PublicServer> <V453000> so
14:44:27  <PublicServer> <V453000> if you add just one line
14:44:33  <PublicServer> <V453000> you dont need anything like that
14:44:40  <PublicServer> <V453000> we will add something similar to the station later on, but not now
14:45:04  <PublicServer> <V453000> so, TASK: try to adjust the station for just 1 line
14:45:11  <PublicServer> <Woodbutcher> well i thought the other lines had to have  a choice of these platforms
14:45:22  <PublicServer> <V453000> nah we are adding just a temporary add-on
14:45:33  <PublicServer> <V453000> we will rebuild the station for 3 lines later on
14:46:04  <PublicServer> <Woodbutcher> so ditch the x's?
14:46:09  <PublicServer> <V453000> yes
14:46:11  <PublicServer> <V453000> or at least half of them
14:46:18  <PublicServer> <V453000> this can stay
14:46:25  <PublicServer> <Woodbutcher> ok
14:46:39  <PublicServer> <Woodbutcher> the next part the same?
14:46:49  <PublicServer> <Woodbutcher> waypoints/depots?
14:46:49  <PublicServer> <V453000> connect it first
14:46:56  <PublicServer> <V453000> aka finish the entrance :)
14:47:59  <PublicServer> <V453000> right
14:48:15  <PublicServer> <V453000> yeah signal it :)
14:48:34  <PublicServer> <V453000> good, but
14:48:40  <PublicServer> <V453000> our trains are long 5 tiles
14:48:43  <PublicServer> <V453000> you want them to wait in these areas
14:49:53  <PublicServer> <V453000> if we were especially pedantic and want good throughput, you want the first split to provide good choices
14:49:56  <PublicServer> <V453000> now it is either A or B
14:50:10  <PublicServer> <V453000> while B is 2 parts
14:50:24  <PublicServer> <Woodbutcher> ok
14:50:34  <PublicServer> <Woodbutcher> so split earlier?
14:50:38  <PublicServer> <V453000> it is good if trains can get to each of the 3 waiting bays directly
14:50:56  <PublicServer> <V453000> example
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14:51:10  <PublicServer> <V453000> understand why?
14:51:16  <PublicServer> <Woodbutcher> yep
14:51:19  <PublicServer> <V453000> cool
14:51:29  <PublicServer> <V453000> the last thing we can do here is make the bays faster by adding signals there
14:51:35  <PublicServer> <V453000> so another train can refill the bay faster
14:51:46  <PublicServer> <Woodbutcher> the tight curves are ok cause the trains are slowing down?
14:52:01  <PublicServer> <V453000> there are no tight curves, CL is 3
14:52:17  <PublicServer> <Woodbutcher> ok
14:52:27  <PublicServer> <V453000> not for great building: the signals should be as close to the pre-signal as possible
14:52:33  <PublicServer> <V453000> but of course according to train waiting spaces
14:52:44  <PublicServer> <V453000> that is what makes things work very fast in high throughput
14:52:58  <PublicServer> <V453000> lets show another option
14:53:49  <PublicServer> <Woodbutcher> which do you think is better
14:53:59  <PublicServer> <V453000> thanks to the fact that this waiting bay can accept almost 100% thgourhput of one line, you can have both choices there
14:54:06  <PublicServer> <V453000> both are important to know
14:54:20  <PublicServer> <V453000> not for this specific station, there the first simple one is enough
14:54:26  <PublicServer> <V453000> but this is important for general building
14:54:41  <PublicServer> <V453000> if you have 3 choices and your split is 2+1, you can do it - but the 2 must have good throughput
14:55:17  <PublicServer> <V453000> that would be enough for now about station entrance
14:55:27  <PublicServer> <V453000> unless you have a question
14:56:15  <PublicServer> <Woodbutcher> my only question would be that it does the length of those matter cause the trains shouldn't wait there
14:56:25  <PublicServer> <Woodbutcher> but you don't want it to block the other choice, right?
14:56:59  <PublicServer> <Woodbutcher> that make sense?
14:56:59  <PublicServer> <V453000> you want to: 1. not block other choice (so it can be as long as possible, more than 1x TL - 5 tiles)
14:57:17  <PublicServer> <Woodbutcher> ok thought so
14:57:19  <PublicServer> <V453000> 2. make it as fast as possible (as short distance between signal and presignal)
14:57:29  <PublicServer> <V453000> which means that 5 tiles are the ideal case
14:57:35  <PublicServer> <V453000> less is broken, more is slower
14:58:21  <PublicServer> <V453000> that is the general logic of waiting bays you need to know, it gets used pretty much everywhere, no matter what you build
14:58:55  <PublicServer> <Woodbutcher> ok got it I think
14:59:14  <PublicServer> <Woodbutcher> did that matter?
14:59:16  <PublicServer> <V453000> you will get used to it
14:59:19  <PublicServer> <V453000> it made it a bit slower
14:59:25  <PublicServer> <V453000> but it probably wouldnt matter
14:59:31  <PublicServer> <V453000> not much at least
14:59:47  <PublicServer> <V453000> I will help you fill the inner part of the station now, that is just cloning
14:59:49  <PublicServer> <Woodbutcher> ok
14:59:52  <PublicServer> <V453000> first we need a waypoint
14:59:55  <PublicServer> <V453000> then a depot
15:00:11  <PublicServer> <V453000> and as they are on every tile you need to swap them with a tunnel
15:00:25  <PublicServer> <V453000> here is a simple trick for quick line creation
15:02:12  <PublicServer> <V453000> now the exit
15:02:30  <PublicServer> <V453000> as we just add an add-on of 3rd, we wont merge it with the other lines yet
15:02:49  <PublicServer> <Woodbutcher> ok
15:02:51  <PublicServer> <V453000> station exit has only one purpose
15:02:53  <PublicServer> <V453000> get trains away
15:03:11  <PublicServer> <V453000> if you can guess how many platforms are enough for one line, you generally dont need any choices
15:03:26  <PublicServer> <V453000> it is sometimes nicer to have them, but that depends
15:03:33  <PublicServer> <V453000> try to make the exit
15:04:23  <PublicServer> <Woodbutcher> is the 3rd line already somewhere where I need to connect to?
15:04:33  <PublicServer> <V453000> no we will build that afterwards
15:04:39  <PublicServer> <Woodbutcher> ok
15:09:02  <PublicServer> <V453000> just join them :)
15:09:16  <PublicServer> <Woodbutcher> ok
15:09:31  <PublicServer> <V453000> it can matter in some cases, but generally it is ok to do it just anyhow
15:09:45  <PublicServer> <V453000> only 2 things to be achieved here
15:09:47  <PublicServer> <Woodbutcher> so should the others just come to  down?
15:09:49  <PublicServer> <V453000> 1 - curves
15:10:08  <PublicServer> <V453000> 2 - having a TL of waiting space after a platform to make it faster, butI consider that rather a waste of space
15:10:19  <PublicServer> <V453000> where to down do you mean
15:10:49  <PublicServer> <Woodbutcher> like connect that instead
15:11:00  <PublicServer> <V453000> like this?
15:11:02  <PublicServer> <Woodbutcher> yeah
15:11:04  <PublicServer> <V453000> signal it
15:11:38  <PublicServer> <V453000> gäääääääääp :P
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15:12:04  <PublicServer> <V453000> the "missing spaces" are for signals
15:12:18  <PublicServer> <V453000> cant afford 5 tile signal gap
15:12:40  <PublicServer> <V453000> by doing that you can fix that
15:12:46  <PublicServer> <Woodbutcher> ok
15:12:46  <PublicServer> <V453000> see now?
15:12:49  <PublicServer> <Woodbutcher> yep
15:12:53  <PublicServer> <V453000> good
15:12:59  <PublicServer> <V453000> lets lead the 3rd line out of this mess
15:15:43  <PublicServer> <Woodbutcher> where to now?
15:15:49  <PublicServer> <V453000> what do you think
15:16:27  <PublicServer> <Woodbutcher> well i looks like trains are goin both ways
15:16:33  <PublicServer> <V453000> well then :)
15:17:11  <PublicServer> <Woodbutcher> well yeah but do you want to run a 3rd line the whole way or connect to the existing lines?
15:17:37  <PublicServer> <V453000> we will make a merger ahead
15:17:55  <PublicServer> <V453000> we could do that first in fact
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15:18:09  <PublicServer> <Woodbutcher> ok
15:18:17  <PublicServer> <V453000> so, when going to the left, there are 2 lines and some merger stuff later
15:18:33  <PublicServer> <V453000> the 2 lines apparently choose from another 3 lines afterwards
15:18:47  <PublicServer> <V453000> option 1 - merge 3->2 before anything happens there
15:19:01  <PublicServer> <V453000> option 2 - let our 3rd line choose from any of the 3 lines
15:19:15  <PublicServer> <V453000> ABC those 3 being
15:19:46  <PublicServer> <V453000> the main question is probably going to be if we are actually able to provide such choices
15:20:04  <PublicServer> <V453000> ( we can )
15:20:19  <PublicServer> <V453000> I would suggest making our 3rd choosing directly from A B or C
15:21:01  <PublicServer> <Woodbutcher> ok noob question on the terminology first
15:21:07  <PublicServer> <V453000> sure
15:22:00  <PublicServer> <Woodbutcher> merge 3->2 means we have 3 lines goin into 2?  or 2 goin into 3 cause for me it seems to be written backwards
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15:22:12  <PublicServer> <V453000> we would have 3->2
15:22:26  <PublicServer> <Woodbutcher> which means what
15:22:33  <PublicServer> <V453000> see the eventual
15:22:35  <PublicServer> <Woodbutcher> 2 lines joining 3
15:22:37  <PublicServer> <V453000> 3 into 2 of course
15:22:55  <PublicServer> <V453000> I said it but it is confusing ... 3->2 first, 2->3 afterwards
15:23:06  <PublicServer> <V453000> other option, keep 2->3 and make 1->3 next to it
15:24:41  <PublicServer> <V453000> I am currently just moving tracks around to allow join of each
15:24:47  <PublicServer> <Woodbutcher> i see
15:25:17  <PublicServer> <Woodbutcher> phone brb
15:31:36  <PublicServer> <Woodbutcher> back sorry
15:31:41  <PublicServer> <V453000> its fine :)
15:31:55  <PublicServer> <V453000> as you can see I have found the 3 choices and connected them
15:32:07  <PublicServer> <V453000> as direct 1->ABC wasnt possible, I have 2+1 as we talked about earlier
15:32:21  <PublicServer> <V453000> also, where are univ tracks I dont know if trains can stop there
15:32:27  <PublicServer> <V453000> so - no signals
15:32:29  <PublicServer> <V453000> we can try to adjust that now
15:33:12  <PublicServer> <V453000> train can stop on those 2 signals
15:33:46  <PublicServer> <V453000> either it clashes with choice (signal A)
15:34:12  <PublicServer> <V453000> or it clashes with the other choice, signal B, or it waits for the previous train at the priority (signal B again)
15:34:42  <PublicServer> <V453000> those are the only 2 spots where train stops
15:34:48  <PublicServer> <V453000> so we can make signalling accordingly
15:34:55  <PublicServer> <V453000> ok so far?
15:35:13  <PublicServer> <Woodbutcher> i think so
15:35:16  <PublicServer> <V453000> good
15:35:38  <PublicServer> <V453000> farthest train can stop there
15:35:46  <PublicServer> <V453000> so the last signal is here
15:35:52  <PublicServer> <V453000> rest is just a fill to make it faster
15:36:14  <PublicServer> <V453000> this tile actually works too I think
15:36:24  <PublicServer> <V453000> 5.5 still works as 5 here
15:36:49  <PublicServer> <V453000> we do the same with the other choices
15:36:59  <PublicServer> <V453000> try it
15:37:13  <PublicServer> <V453000> for that line
15:37:36  <PublicServer> <Woodbutcher> try what? not sure I follow
15:37:43  <PublicServer> <V453000> correct signals
15:38:01  <PublicServer> <V453000> investigate spots where trains can stop
15:38:04  <PublicServer> <V453000> and make as fast signals as possible
15:38:58  <PublicServer> <V453000> on this line
15:39:42  <PublicServer> <V453000> good, now calculate from there  5 tiles
15:39:56  <PublicServer> <V453000> convert them to univ rail
15:41:10  <PublicServer> <V453000> 4,5 so far
15:41:20  <PublicServer> <V453000> right
15:41:26  <PublicServer> <V453000> so where does the next train stop
15:41:52  <PublicServer> <V453000> sign it or covert the signal to entry :)
15:42:00  <PublicServer> <V453000> yes
15:42:18  <PublicServer> <V453000> now, are there any other options where could a train stop?
15:42:44  <PublicServer> <Woodbutcher> well i imagine the other line
15:43:04  <PublicServer> <V453000> where does that stop in such case
15:43:06  <PublicServer> <Woodbutcher> right or no?
15:43:12  <PublicServer> <V453000> hint
15:43:18  <PublicServer> <V453000> aww there we go :)
15:43:29  <PublicServer> <V453000> yes here :p
15:43:47  <PublicServer> <V453000> so you have 2 stopping points
15:44:21  <PublicServer> <V453000> how could the signals work on the line
15:44:55  <PublicServer> <Woodbutcher> ?
15:45:05  <PublicServer> <V453000> "this"
15:45:07  <PublicServer> <V453000> needs to be faster
15:45:10  <PublicServer> <V453000> using block signals
15:45:17  <PublicServer> <V453000> try to find out where can they be
15:45:39  <PublicServer> <V453000> that would be ideal
15:45:53  <PublicServer> <V453000> but based on the stopping places we cant do that
15:46:31  <PublicServer> <V453000> train stops there
15:46:39  <PublicServer> <V453000> so its tail is here
15:46:45  <PublicServer> <V453000> no additional train can be let in
15:46:48  <PublicServer> <V453000> see ?
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15:47:02  <PublicServer> <Woodbutcher> ok i was off by one
15:47:08  <PublicServer> <V453000> well its important :)
15:47:12  <PublicServer> <V453000> now the thing is
15:47:14  <PublicServer> <Woodbutcher> lol i know
15:47:16  <PublicServer> <V453000> we have 2 stopping points
15:47:26  <PublicServer> <V453000> what now
15:48:08  <PublicServer> <V453000> ok the answer is we have to adapt the this :p
15:48:18  <PublicServer> <Woodbutcher> so take the other out
15:48:21  <PublicServer> <V453000> yes
15:48:43  <PublicServer> <V453000> want to try the topmost line?
15:48:46  <PublicServer> <V453000> the middle is hardest
15:49:02  <PublicServer> <Woodbutcher> topmost with the bridge?
15:49:12  <PublicServer> <V453000> that one
15:49:18  <PublicServer> <Woodbutcher> ah
15:49:54  <PublicServer> <Woodbutcher> isn't it done?
15:49:56  <PublicServer> <V453000> you can always just stop trains there to help you but it is best if you can count it
15:50:00  <PublicServer> <V453000> its not optimal
15:51:07  <PublicServer> <V453000> that one works
15:51:37  <PublicServer> <V453000> how is the next
15:51:54  <PublicServer> <V453000> that is just 4 tiles
15:52:32  <PublicServer> <V453000> see what happens
15:52:42  <PublicServer> <V453000> blocked the fork
15:52:45  <PublicServer> <Woodbutcher> yep
15:52:56  <PublicServer> <V453000> now we want to make it as fast as possible
15:53:03  <PublicServer> <V453000> but we know we cant use the last "spot"
15:53:19  <PublicServer> <V453000> answer is the second waiting position
15:54:15  <PublicServer> <V453000> but it has to keep this
15:54:21  <PublicServer> <V453000> so that last signal cant be there
15:54:32  <PublicServer> <V453000> I wont torture you with this any further, but try to understand it :)
15:54:51  <PublicServer> <Woodbutcher> i think i understand except why the 2 pre signals in that line
15:54:54  <PublicServer> <V453000> it is simple in the end, you just find spots where trains stop
15:55:04  <PublicServer> <V453000> entry signal = where train stops
15:55:19  <PublicServer> <V453000> 2 options
15:55:21  <PublicServer> <V453000> so 2
15:55:31  <PublicServer> <V453000> it is just a guide
15:55:42  <PublicServer> <Woodbutcher> ok
15:55:44  <PublicServer> <V453000> doesnt do anything functionally
15:55:56  <PublicServer> <V453000> but I really recommend to use that
15:56:26  <PublicServer> <V453000> I will just finish with the middle
15:56:32  <PublicServer> <V453000> unless you want to do it?
15:56:32  <PublicServer> <Woodbutcher> ok
15:56:43  <PublicServer> <Woodbutcher> you do it, that's fine
15:59:49  <PublicServer> <V453000> I use PBS there to get space for the last waiting bay
16:00:48  <PublicServer> <V453000> and you can see that I also adjust the tracks to fit better
16:00:55  <PublicServer> <Woodbutcher> yep
16:01:13  <PublicServer> <V453000> as good as it can get now
16:01:15  <PublicServer> <Woodbutcher> what's that other bit of track anything?
16:01:29  <PublicServer> <V453000> that is saing that there cant be a signal
16:01:40  <PublicServer> <Woodbutcher> ok
16:01:47  <PublicServer> <V453000> isnt necessary though
16:02:01  <PublicServer> <V453000> the 2ways are enough to mark an end of the purposeful waiting bay
16:02:08  <PublicServer> <Woodbutcher> and the 2way for the pbs to work together
16:02:23  <PublicServer> <V453000> yeah that is just to make it work a bit faster
16:02:26  <PublicServer> <V453000> could be 1way normally
16:02:33  <PublicServer> <Woodbutcher> ok
16:02:59  <PublicServer> <V453000> good
16:03:05  <PublicServer> <V453000> lets connect the 3rd there :p
16:04:07  <PublicServer> <V453000> I will make there a simple 3->2 for now
16:08:34  <PublicServer> <V453000> there we go
16:08:44  <PublicServer> <V453000> final thing, make the 3rd line active
16:09:14  <PublicServer> <V453000> lets simply let any line which is joining the current 2 lines able to also join the 3rd
16:14:45  <PublicServer> <V453000> see what I did?
16:14:55  <PublicServer> <V453000> +-
16:14:57  <PublicServer> <Woodbutcher> yep i was watching
16:15:07  <PublicServer> <V453000> I know but if it makes some sense to you
16:15:33  <PublicServer> <Woodbutcher> yeah, it would take me way longer to work it out
16:15:44  <PublicServer> <Woodbutcher> but i see what you did
16:15:50  <PublicServer> <V453000> good
16:16:12  <PublicServer> <V453000> we have successfully expanded the station now :p
16:16:32  <PublicServer> <V453000> not to mention the other improvements on mergers :>
16:16:32  <PublicServer> <Woodbutcher> :)
16:16:59  <PublicServer> <V453000> I will wait for Dom with expanding the station itself
16:17:01  <PublicServer> <V453000> the entrance
16:17:11  <PublicServer> <V453000> as the current first 2 lines are not optimal
16:17:14  <PublicServer> <Woodbutcher> sure np
16:17:28  <PublicServer> <V453000> just join if you want to participate :)
16:17:39  <PublicServer> <V453000> now lets see how the ret of the network is doing
16:17:41  <PublicServer> <Woodbutcher> i will if i'm free
16:17:48  <PublicServer> <V453000> we added about 10 forests yesterday
16:18:36  <PublicServer> <V453000> one cluster at SLH 08, one at SLH 03
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16:27:30  <PublicServer> <Woodbutcher> well i gotta go for a bit, thanks for the lessons
16:27:40  <PublicServer> <Woodbutcher> cya
16:27:40  <PublicServer> <V453000> you are welcome, see you around
16:27:46  <PublicServer> <V453000> if you keep irc on I will highlight you when Dom comes
16:27:48  <PublicServer> *** Woodbutcher has left the game (leaving)
16:29:40  <PublicServer> <V453000> mh
16:29:47  <PublicServer> <V453000> uranium trains needing electricity:>
16:29:54  <PublicServer> <V453000> dumb train set
16:42:48  <PublicServer> *** V453000 has joined spectators
16:42:48  <PublicServer> *** Game paused (number of players)
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19:06:10  <Mark> yo
19:08:58  <V453000> oy
19:11:15  <^Spike^> yo?oy!?
19:12:34  <PublicServer> <V453000> I have a funny 1->7 here Mark
19:12:44  <PublicServer> <V453000> (so get your noob ass here and behold the dogshit)
19:17:16  <Mark> what
19:17:21  <Mark> 1->7?
19:18:05  <Mark> !password
19:18:06  <PublicServer> Mark: teases
19:18:19  <PublicServer> *** Game still paused (number of players)
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19:18:23  <PublicServer> *** Game unpaused (number of players)
19:18:25  <PublicServer> *** Mark joined the game
19:18:33  <PublicServer> <Mark> welcome screen moved?
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19:23:30  <PublicServer> *** Game paused (number of players)
19:25:02  <PublicServer> <V453000> did it?
19:25:17  <PublicServer> <V453000> its possible actually I have been reloading stuff yesterday
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19:25:56  *** ChanServ sets mode: +o mfb-
19:26:09  <PublicServer> *** Game still paused (number of players)
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19:26:09  <PublicServer> *** mfb joined the game
19:26:11  <PublicServer> <mfb> hi
19:27:01  <PublicServer> <V453000> hello :)
19:27:15  <PublicServer> *** V453000 has joined company #1
19:27:56  <PublicServer> <mfb> ugly hack at SLH03
19:28:06  <PublicServer> <V453000> added 3rd to sawmill, rebuilding the station when Dom returns
19:28:08  <PublicServer> <V453000> not ugly really
19:28:18  <PublicServer> <V453000> the trains return from that direction
19:28:32  <PublicServer> <mfb> probably because it is inside
19:28:36  <PublicServer> <V453000> yes of course
19:28:58  <PublicServer> <mfb> well, ugly in terms of the SL design
19:29:13  <PublicServer> <V453000> most of the SLs end up that way if you need small expansions
19:29:35  <PublicServer> <mfb> SLH01 has access to both sides :p
19:29:37  <PublicServer> <mfb> for everything
19:29:55  <PublicServer> <V453000> myeah
19:31:05  <PublicServer> <mfb> interesting addition at your split
19:31:55  <PublicServer> <V453000> which one?
19:32:01  <PublicServer> <mfb> 1->7
19:32:07  <PublicServer> <V453000> I mean which addition
19:32:09  <PublicServer> <mfb> with the penalty thing
19:32:17  <PublicServer> <V453000> ah, that was intended originally
19:32:31  <PublicServer> <V453000> what I hit my head more was when I saw how presignals fail
19:32:37  <PublicServer> <mfb> oh, I can reduce FS for my wood station a bit :D
19:33:43  <PublicServer> <V453000> we could have actually made timber -> engineering supplies instead of fertiliser plant
19:34:13  <PublicServer> <V453000> we have a tooon of FS
19:34:51  <PublicServer> <V453000> well we still could ... not like it matters that much now
19:35:09  <PublicServer> <V453000> would be nice as we would include timber
19:35:35  <PublicServer> <V453000> would actually be quite quick as well
19:35:45  <PublicServer> <V453000> just adding the 2 industries and changing one refit order
19:35:56  <PublicServer> <V453000> lets do that and lets see
19:37:45  <PublicServer> <V453000> lets see
19:37:55  <PublicServer> <V453000> hm
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19:47:41  <PublicServer> <V453000> motherfucking shit
19:47:45  <PublicServer> <V453000> full load for FS
19:47:47  <PublicServer> <V453000> whoever did that should be shot
19:47:54  <PublicServer> <mfb> where?
19:48:00  <PublicServer> <V453000> wood trains
19:48:02  <PublicServer> <V453000> all of them
19:48:24  <PublicServer> <mfb> new train group for fixed?
19:48:48  <PublicServer> <V453000> idk I just fixed some randomly
19:49:14  <PublicServer> <mfb> I'll fix all
19:49:20  <PublicServer> <V453000> ooooh
19:49:26  <PublicServer> <V453000> my SL is loading timber :D
19:49:32  <PublicServer> <mfb> ?
19:49:34  <PublicServer> <mfb> ah that
19:49:36  <PublicServer> <mfb> :D
19:49:56  <PublicServer> <V453000> :))
19:51:00  <PublicServer> <V453000> these forests are going to love the timber
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19:52:02  <PublicServer> <mfb> ok, all fixed
19:52:06  *** TNepr has quit IRC
19:52:20  <PublicServer> <V453000> cool thanks
19:54:58  *** TNepr1 has quit IRC
19:55:42  <PublicServer> <V453000> forests going apeshit
19:55:53  <PublicServer> <V453000> once the production is enough to give supplies every month, it is just off the chain
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20:03:31  <PublicServer> <mfb> oh, train limit
20:03:45  <PublicServer> <mfb> do you see any jams?
20:04:13  <PublicServer> <mfb> MSH04 ML -> MSL jams
20:04:19  <PublicServer> <mfb> at one side
20:04:29  <PublicServer> <V453000> hm
20:04:39  <PublicServer> <V453000> oh
20:04:49  <PublicServer> <mfb> at boh sides
20:04:49  <PublicServer> <mfb> +t
20:04:51  <PublicServer> <V453000> that is from the station
20:04:57  <PublicServer> <mfb> as station jams
20:05:16  <PublicServer> <V453000> Dom asked me to wait with rebuilding as he wants to do it as well
20:05:31  <PublicServer> <V453000> we can get away with the jams for that time I think ... he said he comes tonight
20:06:09  <PublicServer> <mfb> hmm
20:06:19  <PublicServer> <mfb> ok not so serious
20:06:53  <PublicServer> <V453000> well even if it was worse ... meh
20:07:30  <mfb-> !rcon set max_trains 1503
20:09:37  <V453000> !rcon set max_trains 1504
20:09:41  <V453000> GENEROSITY
20:09:59  <mfb-> ;)
20:12:12  <PublicServer> <V453000> hm
20:12:22  <PublicServer> <V453000> might need 4th on the bottom left side of map soon
20:12:30  <PublicServer> <V453000> if we want to connect all the wood that goes there
20:12:44  <PublicServer> <V453000> hm, also we have not enough FS now :D
20:13:06  <PublicServer> <V453000> wow quite a lot
20:13:12  <PublicServer> <V453000> I will kill the lumber then
20:13:14  <PublicServer> <V453000> brb
20:13:21  <PublicServer> *** V453000 has left the game (leaving)
20:14:34  <V453000> !getsave
20:14:38  <PublicServer> V453000: OK :-)
20:14:39  <V453000> !rcon load 2
20:14:50  <PublicServer> *** Game still paused (manual, number of players)
20:14:51  <V453000> !changepw
20:14:51  <PublicServer> V453000: Password changed to sonnet
20:14:54  <V453000> !auto
20:14:54  <PublicServer> *** V453000 has enabled autopause mode.
20:14:56  <PublicServer> *** Game still paused (number of players)
20:15:00  <PublicServer> *** Game still paused (number of players)
20:15:03  <PublicServer> *** mfb joined the game
20:15:06  <PublicServer> *** Game still paused (number of players)
20:15:08  <PublicServer> *** V453000 joined the game
20:15:32  <PublicServer> *** mfb has joined company #1
20:15:32  <PublicServer> *** Game unpaused (number of players)
20:16:00  <PublicServer> <V453000> TIMBER :D
20:16:06  <PublicServer> <V453000> see center
20:16:22  <PublicServer> <mfb> :D
20:16:40  <PublicServer> <V453000> well whatever ... was a nice try
20:16:56  *** TNepr2 has quit IRC
20:17:22  <PublicServer> <V453000> it could probably be achieved rather okay with a small chemical stealing
20:17:28  <PublicServer> <V453000> but this worked somewhat ok
20:19:46  <PublicServer> *** Chris Booth joined the game
20:19:50  <PublicServer> <Chris Booth> derp
20:20:16  <PublicServer> <V453000> pred
20:20:30  <PublicServer> <V453000> fix your noob config btw, doesnt have eol
20:20:48  <PublicServer> <Chris Booth> send me your config
20:21:39  <PublicServer> <V453000> you dont want my config
20:21:49  <PublicServer> <V453000> tons of grf presets that wont work
20:22:12  <PublicServer> <Chris Booth> I can remove them
20:22:14  <PublicServer> <V453000> also, dont be a lazy bitch and change your settings :>
20:22:37  <PublicServer> <Chris Booth> me lazy?
20:22:47  <PublicServer> <V453000> noo
20:22:49  <PublicServer> <mfb> sure
20:23:11  <PublicServer> <Chris Booth> lol
20:23:36  <PublicServer> <Chris Booth> well if you drop box me yours V453000 I can use it for hints
20:23:48  <PublicServer> <mfb> "hints"
20:23:52  <PublicServer> <V453000> what hints
20:24:07  <PublicServer> <V453000> I wrote 40 pages of hints a week ago
20:24:14  <PublicServer> <V453000> that not enough?
20:24:28  <PublicServer> <Chris Booth> If I wanted to read I would buy a book
20:24:42  <PublicServer> <V453000> print it, have fun :D
20:25:44  <PublicServer> <Chris Booth> looks like the Textile mill needs a 3th line
20:25:56  <PublicServer> <Chris Booth> 4th
20:26:06  <PublicServer> <mfb> station is the bottleneck
20:26:06  <PublicServer> <V453000> no the station just needs improving
20:26:52  <PublicServer> <mfb> well, not improving. just more platforms
20:27:03  <PublicServer> <V453000> balancing might solve this actually
20:27:11  <PublicServer> <V453000> but not in the long run :)
20:27:29  <PublicServer> <mfb> well the outer lines are not full
20:27:36  <PublicServer> <V453000> exactly
20:28:55  <PublicServer> <mfb> what
20:29:11  <PublicServer> <mfb> that was the old split :D
20:29:17  <PublicServer> <V453000> dont ask me :)
20:29:24  <PublicServer> <mfb> same at the other pairs
20:29:30  <PublicServer> <V453000> oh
20:29:32  <PublicServer> <V453000> yeah
20:29:36  <PublicServer> <V453000> I thought it swaps
20:29:38  <PublicServer> <V453000> somehow
20:29:40  <PublicServer> <V453000> oh wow :)
20:29:59  <PublicServer> *** Chris Booth has left the game (leaving)
20:30:49  <PublicServer> <mfb> that helped a bit
20:31:19  <PublicServer> <V453000> will add 4 more platforms and make it properly balanced later anyway
20:31:29  <PublicServer> <mfb> oh, metal stacking
20:31:43  <PublicServer> <V453000> hm
20:31:57  <PublicServer> <V453000> well the pickup station is far from ideal too ... I at least removed the tunnels for metal
20:32:20  <PublicServer> <mfb> drop is at capacity limit, too
20:32:22  <PublicServer> <mfb> (center)
20:32:41  <PublicServer> <mfb> hmm maybe just a signal issue
20:33:35  <PublicServer> <mfb> ok, not good but working
20:36:46  <V453000> holy nutballs
20:36:47  <V453000>
20:36:48  <Webster> Title: "Minecraft Style" - A Parody of PSYs Gangnam Style (Music Video) - YouTube (at
20:38:17  <mfb-> ^^
20:42:42  <PublicServer> <mfb> lol ok
20:42:56  <PublicServer> <mfb> found a station where the primary trains tried to load FS
20:43:16  <PublicServer> <V453000> interesting
20:44:14  <PublicServer> <V453000> added even more choices to teh wood drop
20:44:24  <PublicServer> <mfb> :p
20:44:26  <PublicServer> <V453000> it is almost a station now
20:44:32  <PublicServer> <mfb> :p
20:44:50  <PublicServer> <mfb> I fixed that 10-tile signal gap ;)
20:45:08  <PublicServer> <V453000> :>
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20:49:19  <PublicServer> <V453000> im wondering how much do we actually want to expand this game
20:49:23  <PublicServer> <V453000> I wouldnt go too far
20:49:29  <PublicServer> <V453000> for some reason nobody plays the game
20:49:31  <PublicServer> <V453000> except a few people
20:49:38  <PublicServer> <V453000> a few  being 2
20:49:58  <PublicServer> <mfb> I think 1500 trains is a good limit
20:50:04  <PublicServer> <mfb> some fixes
20:50:10  <PublicServer> <mfb> maybe some trains somewhere
20:50:12  <PublicServer> <mfb> and done
20:50:18  <PublicServer> <mfb> more would need expansions
20:50:28  <PublicServer> <V453000> I think we should do a game where we start with LL_RR, lately we started with 3 lines and that is a huge difference
20:50:46  <PublicServer> <mfb> or even L_R
20:50:52  <PublicServer> <mfb> the last game with that was good
20:51:14  <PublicServer> <V453000> L_R is always great but I think we need to make people involved more right from the beginning
20:51:44  <PublicServer> <mfb> that is the concept behind L_R
20:51:49  <PublicServer> <mfb> everyone can build a hub
20:52:07  <PublicServer> <V453000> yes but that isnt a hub
20:52:13  <PublicServer> <mfb> :p
20:52:27  <PublicServer> <V453000> LL_RR still is pretty easy but you learn basic rules
20:52:45  <PublicServer> <V453000> I think there are quite a few people on stable who could use that right now
20:53:53  <PublicServer> <V453000> could make a LL_RR network with many BBHs, temperate, original train set, use AsiaStar
20:54:00  <PublicServer> <V453000> see how it turns out
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20:56:58  <PublicServer> <V453000> also it doesnt  really allow CL violation :D
20:57:08  <PublicServer> <mfb> ?
20:57:14  <PublicServer> <V453000> asiastar
20:57:20  <PublicServer> <V453000> with 265 kmh, CLs hurt
20:57:27  <PublicServer> <mfb> right
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21:05:18  <PublicServer> <V453000> I added 2nd set of platforms for the wooden metal in center
21:08:26  <PublicServer> <mfb> "wood metal" :D
21:08:30  <PublicServer> <V453000> :)
21:08:40  <PublicServer> <V453000> combined with iron ore!
21:08:41  *** Mark has quit IRC
21:08:50  <PublicServer> <mfb> really?
21:09:00  <PublicServer> <mfb> ah there
21:09:10  <PublicServer> <V453000> yeah in a ratio of about 1:200
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21:58:14  <Webster> Latest update from openttd: OpenTTD 1.2.3-RC1 <> || OpenTTD 1.2.2 <> || OpenTTD 1.2.2-RC1 <> || OpenTTD 1.2.1 <> || OpenTTD 1.2.1-RC1 <>
21:58:43  <Webster> Latest update from dznews: NewGRF Meta Language - NML 0.2.4 released <> || DevZone Help Center - Unresolveable Issues <> || OpenGFX - OpenGFX 0.4.5 <>
21:59:14  <Webster> Latest update from blog: Creating Maps <> || Scheduled downtime of #openttdcoop Wednesday 3am CEST – 3pm CEST <> || Fun with NoCarGoal <> || New member: LoPo <> || Orderless Multi Cargo SRNW – My first article! <> || Advanced Building Revue 12: Overflows III <> || Next on the list: industries! <> || Thank you & Good bye <> || New member: Mazur <> || Titlegame competition – now voting! <>
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23:40:50  <Dom_> !playercount
23:40:50  <PublicServer> Dom_: Number of players: 0 (0 spectators)
23:40:53  <Dom_> !password
23:40:53  <PublicServer> Dom_: graven
23:41:12  <PublicServer> *** Game still paused (number of players)
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