Log for #openttdcoop on 12th June 2013:
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02:11:58  <nicfer> !password
02:11:58  <PublicServer> nicfer: rimmed
02:12:26  <nicfer> !dl win64
02:12:27  <PublicServer> nicfer:
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02:46:02  <nicfer> !password
02:46:02  <PublicServer> nicfer: eczema
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02:53:37  <nicfer> @logs
02:53:37  <Webster> #openttdcoop IRC webstuff - IRC Log Viewer -
02:57:38  <PublicServer> <nicfer> yay cargodist on trunk
02:57:53  <PublicServer> <phatmatt> indeed, it looks really cool
02:59:33  <PublicServer> <nicfer> sylf you cloner
03:35:13  <PublicServer> <Sylf> :P
03:35:31  <PublicServer> *** Sylf has joined company #1
03:36:07  <PublicServer> <Sylf> cargodist is too different from how I know to play this game so it's weirding me out
03:36:35  <PublicServer> <Sylf> regardless.
03:36:41  <PublicServer> <Sylf> Let's do some building
03:36:55  <PublicServer> <Sylf> there are lots of towns that need lots of love
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03:42:05  <BiG> !dl lin64
03:42:05  <PublicServer> BiG:
03:44:44  <BiG> !password
03:44:44  <PublicServer> BiG: maybes
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03:45:29  <PublicServer> <Big Meech> ih
03:45:40  <PublicServer> <Sylf> um
03:45:58  <PublicServer> <Sylf> awright.
03:46:12  <PublicServer> <Sylf> let's pick a guinie pig
03:46:34  <PublicServer> <Sylf> hubs and MLs can be fixed later
03:46:38  <PublicServer> <Big Meech> lol
03:46:52  <PublicServer> <Big Meech> what's going on here?
03:46:54  <PublicServer> <Big Meech> xD
03:46:57  <PublicServer> <Sylf> let's show how a town can be built
03:47:23  <PublicServer> <Sylf> we just need some standard local and intercity train networks
03:47:42  <PublicServer> <Sylf> so, pick a town, and lay down some local train network grid or whatever
03:48:01  <PublicServer> <Sylf> and build main lines connecting the main stations attached to each towns
03:48:17  <PublicServer> <Sylf> kinda like how we built pax network once on welcome server
03:48:36  <PublicServer> <Sylf> same concept, maybe a bit bigger scale
03:48:58  <PublicServer> <Sylf> and with NUTS, we can really go nuts.
03:49:25  <PublicServer> <Big Meech> my mind is blown though at the moment staring at what is already here
03:49:43  <PublicServer> <Sylf> what's here actually are all worthless.
03:49:51  <PublicServer> <Big Meech> I know xD
03:50:17  <PublicServer> <Sylf> the stuff at Rainbow Lake is kinda special
03:50:27  <PublicServer> <Sylf> and actually takes the new feature into account
03:50:49  <PublicServer> <Big Meech> what is the new feature?
03:50:49  <PublicServer> <Sylf> this latest version has the cargo distribution feature
03:51:03  <PublicServer> <Sylf> so, click on Rainbow Lake station
03:51:14  <PublicServer> <Sylf> the passengers waiting on that station has specific destinations
03:51:16  <PublicServer> <Big Meech> oh wow
03:51:30  <PublicServer> <Big Meech> interesting
03:51:32  <PublicServer> <Sylf> so the cargo are nicely distributed throughout the map
03:51:38  <PublicServer> <Big Meech> the game when it started said i was missing sprites
03:51:54  <PublicServer> <Sylf> just update all the online contents
03:52:08  <PublicServer> <Sylf> the latest opengfx will fix the missing sprite issue
03:52:46  <PublicServer> <Big Meech> hmm okay
03:52:56  <PublicServer> <Big Meech> which town are we gonna do ?
03:53:18  <PublicServer> <Sylf> I'm gonna pick Sedgewick
03:53:39  <PublicServer> <Sylf> I live in Sedgewick county so :P
03:53:58  <PublicServer> <Big Meech> lol
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03:54:12  <PublicServer> <Big Meech> I heard that was the worst county ever :P
03:56:06  <PublicServer> <Big Meech> I like the roads
03:56:16  <PublicServer> <Sylf> 8 platforms... should be enough for this tiny place
03:56:31  <PublicServer> <Sylf> I think that's from north american road set?
03:57:57  <PublicServer> <Sylf> too many station building choices....
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04:11:41  <PublicServer> <Big Meech> oh nie
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04:11:49  <PublicServer> <Big Meech> i forgot the costs were lower here in PS
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04:16:01  <PublicServer> <Sylf> anyway.  back to the town.
04:18:27  <PublicServer> <Sylf> we'll see if this will work
04:29:37  <PublicServer> <Big Meech> im not sure how to finish the tunneled area
04:30:19  <PublicServer> <Sylf> like that
04:31:01  <PublicServer> <Big Meech> glad you make sense of it xD
04:32:17  <PublicServer> <Sylf> see, it's not that difficult
04:34:44  <PublicServer> <Sylf> ta-da
04:36:18  <PublicServer> <Big Meech> now we just need some t-rains
04:39:56  <PublicServer> <Big Meech> i like how the station dialog box is just bigger in general
04:40:02  <PublicServer> <Big Meech> oh
04:40:08  <PublicServer> <Big Meech> nice to see that they are all bigger
04:40:14  <PublicServer> <Big Meech> easier to click
04:41:17  <PublicServer> <Big Meech> the trains are slowing to 55 in the curve
04:41:39  <PublicServer> <Sylf> it doesn't really matter for local trains
04:42:34  <PublicServer> <Big Meech> okay :)
04:43:49  <PublicServer> <Sylf> there's a reason why I don't play much pax games...  It just feels so weird to me
04:44:15  <PublicServer> <Big Meech> i think they're all too similar
04:44:41  <PublicServer> <Big Meech> is there a such thing as refit to passengers to mail ?
04:49:16  <PublicServer> <Big Meech> D:
04:49:20  <PublicServer> <Big Meech> bridge killa
04:49:26  <PublicServer> <Sylf> muahahahaha
04:49:33  <PublicServer> <Big Meech> >:)
04:50:55  <PublicServer> <Sylf> D:  the town's not growing
04:51:09  <PublicServer> <Big Meech> 152 days
04:51:15  <PublicServer> <Big Meech> it wasnt earlier
04:51:21  <PublicServer> <Sylf> oh, good.
04:52:27  <PublicServer> <Sylf> hm.  maybe I'll pick up on your idea
04:52:34  <PublicServer> <Big Meech> :D
04:52:40  <PublicServer> <Big Meech> im master of all roads
04:52:52  <PublicServer> <Big Meech> actually it was this :)
04:53:02  <PublicServer> <Sylf> I know it's different.
04:53:20  <PublicServer> <Sylf> but I need the road at the right discance from the station
04:53:22  <PublicServer> <Big Meech> mines betta :D
04:53:40  <PublicServer> <Sylf> you're king midas?
04:53:46  <PublicServer> <Sylf> mr. golden touch
04:53:52  <PublicServer> <Big Meech>  nah
04:53:54  <PublicServer> <Big Meech> :D
04:55:28  <PublicServer> <Big Meech> lol not growning again
04:55:50  <PublicServer> <Sylf> not a big deal
04:57:28  <PublicServer> <Sylf> muahahahaha.
04:57:44  <PublicServer> <Sylf> I've caused a giant negative finance for the year
04:57:54  <PublicServer> <Big Meech> nuked wata?
04:57:59  <PublicServer> <Sylf> nope.
04:58:07  <PublicServer> <Sylf> just lots of construction and train cost
04:58:29  <PublicServer> <Big Meech> I love train cost
04:59:48  <PublicServer> <Sylf> oh shit
04:59:57  <PublicServer> <Big Meech> ?
04:59:59  <PublicServer> <Sylf> I need to add mail trains too
05:00:03  <PublicServer> <Big Meech> lol
05:00:13  <PublicServer> <Big Meech> refit
05:00:13  <PublicServer> <Big Meech> xD
05:06:07  <PublicServer> <Sylf> ooooh
05:06:18  <PublicServer> <Sylf> look at train 54's refit window
05:06:38  <PublicServer> <Sylf> the color refit system is now
05:06:48  <PublicServer> <Sylf> the presentation of it is.
05:07:19  <PublicServer> <Big Meech> oh, green?
05:07:31  <PublicServer> <Sylf> I picked green
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05:07:50  <PublicServer> <Sylf> but the expandable color picker is new feature that I haven't seen before tonight
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05:08:36  <PublicServer> <Big Meech> i dont see what you are looking at :S
05:08:58  <PublicServer> <Sylf> a train needs to be in the depot
05:09:42  <PublicServer> <Big Meech> im sending in 59
05:09:48  <PublicServer> <Big Meech> 59 in depot
05:09:48  <PublicServer> <Sylf> in the depot, you can refet trains, of course...
05:09:58  <PublicServer> <Sylf> so, click on the refit button, and you'll see.
05:10:12  <PublicServer> <Big Meech> Oh right
05:10:26  <PublicServer> <Big Meech> nice
05:17:32  <PublicServer> <Sylf> anyway.
05:17:38  <PublicServer> <Sylf> I think that's about it for me tonight.
05:17:44  <PublicServer> <Big Meech> same
05:18:42  <PublicServer> <Big Meech> town still not growing xD
05:19:05  <PublicServer> <Sylf> it'll take time.
05:19:49  <PublicServer> <Sylf> After we have a few towns laid out properly, we may increase the town growth speed
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05:23:05  <PublicServer> <Sylf> thanks for the help, dude.
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10:10:52  <Anson> !password
10:10:52  <PublicServer> Anson: letups
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14:44:35  <nicfer> !password
14:44:35  <PublicServer> nicfer: skeins
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14:51:47  <nicfer> what version of opengfx is compatible with this nightly?
14:51:57  <nicfer> stable 0.4.7?
14:53:59  <Sylf_> I don't know about the version number, but the latest one that was released recently
14:54:00  <Sylf_> I think it was this week
14:55:42  <Sylf_> The game functions just fine without that version though.
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15:01:07  <Vinnie> !password
15:01:07  <PublicServer> Vinnie: skeins
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15:21:16  <Maraxus> !password
15:21:16  <PublicServer> Maraxus: skeins
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15:30:55  <V453000> !password
15:30:55  <PublicServer> V453000: skeins
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17:55:26  <Vinnie_nl> @logs
17:55:26  <Webster> #openttdcoop IRC webstuff - IRC Log Viewer -
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18:07:28  <ZxBiohazardZx> !password
18:07:28  <PublicServer> ZxBiohazardZx: skeins
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18:10:19  <PublicServer> <ZxBiohazardZx> sup
18:13:16  <PublicServer> <Vinnie> the sky is up
18:14:44  <PublicServer> <ZxBiohazardZx> ceiling is first
18:15:54  <Maraxus> !password
18:15:55  <PublicServer> Maraxus: ornate
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18:16:10  <PublicServer> <Vinnie> sky is the limit
18:16:29  <PublicServer> <Maraxus> hi
18:16:39  <PublicServer> <Vinnie> hello
18:19:22  <PublicServer> <Vinnie> still happy about cargo dist?
18:19:40  <PublicServer> <ZxBiohazardZx> i dont mind
18:19:46  <PublicServer> <ZxBiohazardZx> its what i always play locally
18:19:57  <PublicServer> <ZxBiohazardZx> then again for the server id rather see cargo game without it
18:20:01  <PublicServer> <ZxBiohazardZx> but its fine for now
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18:42:03  <Vinnie_nl> brb
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19:04:19  <V453000> if there is a collective agreement, I am always open to abanadoning an unsuccessful game and making another instead
19:04:26  <PublicServer> <ZxBiohazardZx> haha
19:04:32  <PublicServer> <ZxBiohazardZx> im in favor of a cargo game
19:04:42  <V453000> would not be for the first nor last time and I think it is a lot more sensible than torturing people with whatever else they dont want to play at that point
19:04:44  <PublicServer> <ZxBiohazardZx> if you want you can retry the map  i send earlier on diff grfs?
19:08:06  <V453000> more or less, that isnt a terrible problem atm
19:10:45  <Sylf_> What's the problem with the current game?
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19:12:16  <V453000> well then :)
19:13:04  <Sylf_> I mean :P  Why was there a discussion about ditching this game anyway?
19:13:04  <V453000> there is your collective agreement going to shit ZxBiohazardZx :P
19:13:25  <V453000> hm actually ditching is pointless
19:13:31  <V453000> we can just disable cargodist if want
19:13:31  <PublicServer> <ZxBiohazardZx> :P
19:13:50  <PublicServer> <ZxBiohazardZx> boom on purpose to fix my deadlock after rebuild :P
19:13:59  <Sylf_> What was so horrible about cargodist?
19:13:59  <V453000> Sylf_: there has been discussion on cargodist yesterday where we basically came to a conclusion that it makes no sense to play with it
19:14:13  <V453000> station >= junctions
19:14:19  <V453000> the less hubs the better
19:14:27  <Sylf_> Well, duh.  That's a no brainer discussion.
19:14:38  <Sylf_> But I thought we'd play one anyway and see where the game goes.
19:14:53  <Sylf_> I haven't seen more than maybe 3-4 people playing this game so far.
19:15:06  <V453000> yeah but once the cargo pathing started doing some wtf, I stopped being interested at all tbh, up to you
19:15:28  <V453000> if you want to play it or keep it, do so :) I got pz
19:15:48  <Sylf_> I dunno.  I haven't seen the full action of the distribution thing
19:16:12  <V453000> my very original intention was to have 2 games
19:16:21  <V453000> first where we do it randomly, second where we do it with only stations
19:16:39  <Sylf_> but yeah, I wanna see at least some full network built before giving up.
19:16:52  <V453000> but that kind of crashed and burned as I saw that there isnt even a reason why you should be using it with cargo
19:17:03  <V453000> good with me
19:17:21  <Sylf_> but if I'm the only one who wants to keep the game, then do load a new map.
19:17:34  <Sylf_> It's pointless to play a solo map on PS
19:17:50  <V453000> I believe it is simple, nobody I saw is terribly interested in it but also most people are at least curious about it
19:17:52  <PublicServer> <ZxBiohazardZx> not alot of interest from what i can tell, but then again its not really the timeframe either
19:18:24  <V453000> the map is small, anybody can turn the game into active one even single handedly
19:19:38  <Sylf_> I still don't want to play it alone :)
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19:20:09  <V453000> only one way to find out if you will :)
19:20:39  <Sylf_> yup.  so we'll keep this game for maybe 3
19:20:46  <Sylf_> 3-4 more days and see where it goes.
19:20:59  <V453000> exactly
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19:21:29  <PublicServer> <Brumi> hello
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19:21:34  <Sylf_> ok, that I can see.  I just didn't want to see this game given up today
19:22:00  <V453000> actually
19:22:06  <V453000> let me go and load the old pro zone game on pz
19:22:10  <PublicServer> <ZxBiohazardZx> in the meantime im powergrowing the town a bit :P
19:22:24  <V453000> the current one is almost done, I just need to make some final things
19:22:32  <V453000> that can happen locally
19:22:41  <Sylf_> Did you see the canadian set grf released on bananas?
19:22:50  <V453000> wotefak
19:22:56  <Sylf_> town buildings, stations, roads, the whole thing
19:23:03  <V453000> HOLY SHIT :D
19:23:17  <Sylf_> I KNOW
19:23:35  <hylje> when you die in canada, you die in real life
19:23:39  <V453000> well totally using that in the next game
19:23:42  <PublicServer> <ZxBiohazardZx> i read the topic on simu, it is intended
19:23:42  <scshunt> +1
19:24:03  <V453000> unsure about the train set, will check that first
19:24:30  <Sylf_> it's probably still useless.
19:24:42  <Sylf_> just more of them
19:25:16  <PublicServer> <ZxBiohazardZx> its not changed
19:25:19  <PublicServer> <ZxBiohazardZx> not alot of additions in any way
19:25:23  <PublicServer> <Brumi> do they have the latest nightly as a requirement?
19:25:25  <PublicServer> <ZxBiohazardZx> still has vehicle shit
19:25:56  <PublicServer> <Brumi> or were they uploaded so recently that they don't show up in th content downloader?
19:25:57  <Sylf_> canrail is compatible for 1.3.0 and up
19:26:08  <PublicServer> <ZxBiohazardZx> canrail, cancity etc
19:26:13  <Sylf_> and yes, it's very hot off the press.
19:26:14  <PublicServer> <ZxBiohazardZx> its not like its all new content
19:26:21  <PublicServer> <ZxBiohazardZx> bridges are nice from what i heard though
19:26:33  <Sylf_> cancity etc are compatible 1.2.3 (i think) and later
19:26:46  <PublicServer> <Brumi> they're not in the list yet
19:27:08  <Sylf_> but seriously, what's new to us is the very fact that it's available in bananas.
19:27:34  <PublicServer> <Brumi> yeah
19:27:49  <V453000> if you saw me argue with these dumb fucks, you realize why it is so much wtf :D
19:28:14  <PublicServer> <Brumi> I saw some of this whole thing on tt-forums
19:28:28  <PublicServer> <Brumi> I cannot say I followed it thoroughly
19:28:41  <V453000> the problem was simple
19:28:50  <Sylf_> no more iGRF \o/
19:29:02  <PublicServer> <Brumi> yeah the iGRF...
19:29:14  <PublicServer> <Brumi> that caused quite the drama
19:29:52  <PublicServer> <ZxBiohazardZx> Sylf its because the orig authors of canset arent insane simufed
19:30:06  <V453000> they got some shitstorm inside their head, declaring that they are not appreciated enough on tt-forums. What that meant is beyond my understanding. So what followed was a wave where those retards removed all of their images and posts, and uploaded grfs from all of tt-forums. Now they went to simuscape to get their own playground, declaring how everybody is not nice to them and making "tycoonwars". And basically the only problem with bana
19:30:08  <Webster> Read the Quickstart - #openttdcoop Wiki - (again, try !grf)
19:30:09  <V453000> cannot remove content from it
19:30:33  <V453000> that is basically what this is all about
19:31:11  <PublicServer> <Brumi> well I don't understand their problem fully
19:31:25  <PublicServer> <Brumi> basically if you upload something to the internet it's there
19:31:27  <V453000> hm, latest nightly not working. I think he uploaded it with some extremely high version check requirements
19:31:44  <V453000> exactly Brumi, but you wont explain that to them
19:31:56  <V453000> at the very best they would prefer to be able to delete old content from your pc
19:32:04  <PublicServer> <ZxBiohazardZx> yes Brumi they think in licences and OMG i drew that shit, its mine forever and you must pay me
19:32:06  <PublicServer> <ZxBiohazardZx> whatever its fine
19:32:16  <V453000> they just fail to understand that the only way how to make people download updates is to make them worth it
19:32:50  <PublicServer> <ZxBiohazardZx> WETRAILZ!
19:32:56  <PublicServer> <Brumi> yay
19:33:12  <V453000> and then the stupid syndrome like "omfg my version taster-beta-wtf was bad. Nobody must ever see it because I am teh great artist and it would hurt my reputation of demigod retard
19:33:14  <PublicServer> <Brumi> now I should do something with simpleai again
19:33:25  <PublicServer> <ZxBiohazardZx> haha V
19:33:28  <PublicServer> <Brumi> if I load NUTS simpleai will only use wetrails :D
19:33:30  <PublicServer> <ZxBiohazardZx> you really are on fire about this
19:33:35  <V453000> lol :D
19:33:36  <PublicServer> <ZxBiohazardZx> id almost say you give a fuck....
19:33:44  <PublicServer> <ZxBiohazardZx> but i know you dont :)
19:33:51  <V453000> lets just say I cannot believe how can someone be so retarded
19:34:02  <V453000> and yes I really dont :)
19:34:04  <PublicServer> <ZxBiohazardZx> before or after you met me?
19:34:25  <V453000> you are not really related to this I believe
19:34:40  <V453000> I am not saying that every single person on simuscape is an idiot
19:34:42  <PublicServer> <ZxBiohazardZx> someone being retarded  -.-
19:34:53  <V453000> oh, you are in the top3 dont worry
19:34:55  <PublicServer> <ZxBiohazardZx> anyway im powerfeeding my town with succes
19:35:02  <V453000> :D
19:35:10  <PublicServer> <ZxBiohazardZx> goods make it grow SO MUCH faster :P
19:35:35  <Sylf_> cheater
19:35:42  <PublicServer> <ZxBiohazardZx> yes :)
19:35:46  <V453000> scshunt: where did you find the announcement on that well-organized-site-where-everything-is-easy-to-find?
19:35:50  <PublicServer> <ZxBiohazardZx> will get nuked when i hit a big enough town :P
19:36:00  <PublicServer> <Brumi> Sedgewick even shrunk :P
19:36:11  <Sylf_> D:
19:36:29  <fonsinchen> !dl linux
19:36:29  <PublicServer> fonsinchen: unknown option "linux"
19:36:33  <Sylf_> I just found it by looking at
19:36:34  <fonsinchen> !dl
19:36:34  <PublicServer> fonsinchen: !dl autostart|autottd|lin|lin64|osx|ottdau|source|win32|win64|win9x
19:36:34  <PublicServer> fonsinchen:
19:37:07  <V453000> yes Sylf but it seems a bit tough to download :d
19:37:25  <PublicServer> *** Brumi has joined spectators
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19:37:30  <PublicServer> <Brumi> name [AFK] Brumi
19:37:36  <PublicServer> <Brumi> oops
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19:37:56  <Sylf_> I'm not home, so I haven't been able to check its availability in game
19:37:57  <V453000> well fuck it, if someone discovers what the idiocy is behind it let me know :)
19:38:18  <V453000> I have r25396 and cant see it there
19:38:34  <V453000> it can be made incompatible with some versions of openttd
19:39:06  <V453000> 1.3.1 got nothing
19:39:11  <V453000> cba to find more
19:42:19  <fonsinchen> !password
19:42:19  <PublicServer> fonsinchen: cougar
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19:43:09  <fonsinchen> !password
19:43:09  <PublicServer> fonsinchen: gullet
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19:43:55  <scshunt> V453000: what announcement?
19:44:16  <V453000> the thing which says it is not a mistake obviously
19:49:11  <V453000> because I am getting the feeling that the douchebag just added some extremely high required game version
19:49:38  <V453000> what that means is, nobody can see it through OpenTTD, you have to click it at the bananas website as teh only way to download it
19:50:07  <scshunt> I don't even know what you're talkinga bout
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19:53:34  <TWerkhoven> mebbe he put 1.6.0 as min version
19:54:03  <V453000> oh sorry, ZxBiohazardZx mentioned it
19:54:15  <V453000> that wouldnt do anything TWerkhoven
19:54:17  <V453000> or
19:54:22  <V453000> well ye
19:54:44  <V453000> the format in which you add it is different though
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21:36:17  <fonsinchen> To pick up our discussion from yesterday ...
21:36:42  <fonsinchen> V453000, what kept you from building stations instead of junctions with YACD?
21:37:10  <V453000> nothing, YACD works exactly the same way in this regard
21:38:19  <V453000> well, exactly ... in fact stations are a lot more broken there
21:38:20  <fonsinchen> You said yesterday that YACD was fun. In what way was YACD more fun than Cargodist?
21:38:45  <V453000> because there are also "local destinations" which get sorted that way, and mainly growing industries add destinations over time
21:39:06  <V453000> I doubt I meant that in a way that it was actually really fun. I probably said it was funny
21:40:10  <fonsinchen> How does the local destinations feature in YACD work?
21:40:30  <V453000> key difference was that it really forced you to actually deliver to more places in order to get more cargo, so it at least did motivate the player to do that ... but when I realized that the only sane solution is through pure transfer I tried if that ideology works, and then left it alone
21:40:58  <V453000> I do not remember exactly, but something like to ~some area around it?
21:41:02  <V453000> I dont really know anymore
21:41:19  <V453000> but something on that basis
21:41:52  <V453000> the adding of new destinations was more wtf because you would have to constantly check every single primary you connected if it didnt dare to add a destination
21:42:11  <V453000> while transfers ofc just solved that automatically
21:42:37  <fonsinchen> Once an efficient solution to getting the ratio of connected vs. unconnected destination is found cargodist could throttle cargo production by that ratio.
21:42:56  <fonsinchen> That would also force you to add more destinations, but it wouldn't tell you which ones.
21:44:16  <fonsinchen> But anyway, I see the problem. Cargodist as well as YACD makes it easy to play without junctions. There is no way to avoid that.
21:44:40  <V453000> question is, isnt there?
21:44:55  <V453000> do stations need to have that ability to re-distribute cargo?
21:45:12  <fonsinchen> That's just about the only thing cargodist does.
21:45:28  <V453000> ah I see, nevermind
21:45:40  <fonsinchen> And the most prominent part of YACD, too.
21:48:23  <V453000> well then I guess thre is no way around it indeed :s
21:49:11  <fonsinchen> What you could do to solve the dilemma is use infrastructure maintenance costs. Maybe there is a way to make stations more expensive than tracks
21:49:39  <fonsinchen> Then you wouldn't build the kind of huge stations required to facilitate all the transfers.
21:50:21  <V453000> you cannot really solve this by money
21:50:51  <V453000> esp as there are so many other factors like cost/running cost of the actual train set, cargo payment rates, map size/width/length, ...
21:50:55  <ZxBiohazardZx> so?
21:51:01  <V453000> train speed, capacities, everything
21:51:27  <fonsinchen> If station maintenance is sufficiently expensive it can always dominate. That's a question of balancing.
21:51:37  <ZxBiohazardZx> the thing is that any pre-destined cargo will make hub-stations more efficient
21:51:46  <ZxBiohazardZx> the question is if you want to allow it in the design
21:51:56  <ZxBiohazardZx> or just accept a rule that "hub-stations" are not allowed
21:52:28  <V453000> ZxBiohazardZx: did you read what we just talked about?
21:52:37  <V453000> [23:48] <fonsinchen> That's just about the only thing cargodist does.
21:53:02  <ZxBiohazardZx> no CargoDist adds a destination and allows transferring (s-bahn/IC is fine)
21:53:18  <ZxBiohazardZx> just in the network structure you should not have any hubs that do not serve as dropoff as well
21:53:26  <fonsinchen> The rule will get complicated.
21:53:28  <ZxBiohazardZx> aka no stations in middle of nowhere just because you have a hub :P
21:53:45  <V453000> it cannot really fonsinchen, incomes can differ way too much - and even so, as I said yesterday. You either make money or you do not. Making everything (or selected things) expensive only means that the game is slower, but it does not influence it in any major way
21:56:47  <Sylf> Bio, I still think you missed some parts of the conversation.  One reason for building a hub station is so we don't need to micromanage every single trains on the map, and amount of trains each stations get with proper destination.  That maybe what's fun for some people.  But for others, it's the building of the rail network that's fun, not managing trains.
21:59:00  <ZxBiohazardZx> Sylf i know, im with the build the network thing
22:00:22  <fonsinchen> Let me find out if you can artificially increase the maintenance costs for stations ...
22:00:25  <ZxBiohazardZx> when i come to the PS i come to build the puzzle BBH, MSH and expand it :P
22:00:38  <ZxBiohazardZx> not to play cargodest, i play that in the personal games
22:01:47  <V453000> btw saying cargodest is about the same like saying ApenTTD
22:02:13  <V453000> dist isnt dest :P
22:03:51  <ZxBiohazardZx> i say ApenTTD all the time :)
22:04:11  <ZxBiohazardZx> it haz monkeys (ask Vinnie or other dutch)
22:04:44  <V453000> ape is also an english word
22:05:06  <V453000> idk the exact linguistical difference from monkey though
22:05:42  <ZxBiohazardZx>
22:05:43  <Webster> Title: Ape vs Monkey - Difference and Comparison | Diffen (at
22:05:43  <ZxBiohazardZx> XD
22:06:00  <ZxBiohazardZx> brain size is different
22:06:10  <ZxBiohazardZx> same for family and structure
22:07:51  <fonsinchen> It seems currently you can't modify the station maintenance costs via settings. That would be a simple patch, though.
22:08:34  <fonsinchen> Just set it to 100 times the current amount and you will be VERY careful about building unnecessary stations.
22:08:49  <ZxBiohazardZx> Fons nope
22:09:05  <ZxBiohazardZx> as in most coop games your income >>>>>>>>>> spendings
22:09:16  <ZxBiohazardZx> hence that 1 ultra-expensive station is no big deal
22:10:14  <fonsinchen> If you are going to replace every single junction in the game with a station that won't be only one. And if it's not expensive enough, just make it more expensive. I'll write a patch for you.
22:10:27  <Sylf> actually, that probably isn't true when you have such large maintenance cost that will eclipse those large income
22:11:35  <V453000> right :D
22:12:11  <V453000> about stations, costs really wont solve it
22:12:27  <V453000> + we play without infrastructure maintenance
22:12:58  <V453000> in short simply because costs really do not, and cannot, change anything in the long run
22:13:00  <Sylf> if we want to increase the maintenance cost, we'll load cost mod grf, and mod it that way.  there are ways we can control it if we really want it.
22:13:39  <V453000> there probably isnt station_infra_maintenance basecost Sylf
22:14:00  <Sylf> I think you're right.
22:14:19  <Sylf> I think there is single setting for all maintenance cost multiplier
22:14:32  <V453000> exactly
22:14:44  <V453000> eventually something like rail/road/canal/airport
22:14:56  <V453000> but that is probably about as detail as it gets
22:15:55  <fonsinchen> Probably the station maintenance is a bad idea anyway. It would also make an S-Bahn or any line which is not crazy profitable prohibitively expensive.
22:16:07  <fonsinchen> I should go to sleep.
22:16:15  <fonsinchen> good night
22:16:25  <V453000> you would make the money elsewhere that is probably no an issue
22:16:29  <V453000> but again, no :)
22:16:32  <V453000> gn
22:16:37  <V453000> thanks for the conversation
22:19:06  <ZxBiohazardZx> :P
22:22:46  <V453000> also I wonder where the fuck did I put my pro zone game save from the FIRS game
22:24:30  <ZxBiohazardZx> haha
22:24:42  <ZxBiohazardZx> hokus pokes gone
22:25:13  <V453000> well autosaves probably have it
22:25:32  <ZxBiohazardZx> 10 options :P
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22:27:03  <ZxBiohazardZx> dan 1e periode diff en minor afronden
22:27:11  *** frdm has joined #openttdcoop
22:27:12  <ZxBiohazardZx> en dan nog paar vakjes voor bep en klaar
22:27:14  <Sylf> you're calling quit on the t-sml?
22:27:15  <ZxBiohazardZx> ow lol
22:27:18  <ZxBiohazardZx> wrong window
22:27:42  <V453000> Sylf: you know very well when would I call it a quit :P
22:27:52  <ZxBiohazardZx> haha
22:28:00  <V453000> I will finish the last bits in sp, nobody can connect anymore anyway except like 2 people
22:28:22  <V453000> also it seems like autosaves dont have the firs game :d
22:28:30  <V453000> I was pretty sure I saved it somewhre, but where
22:28:52  <ZxBiohazardZx> pz or?
22:29:36  <V453000> ..
22:35:23  <scshunt> !dl linux
22:35:23  <PublicServer> scshunt: unknown option "linux"
22:35:26  <scshunt> !dl
22:35:26  <PublicServer> scshunt: !dl autostart|autottd|lin|lin64|osx|ottdau|source|win32|win64|win9x
22:35:26  <PublicServer> scshunt:
22:36:10  <scshunt> !password
22:36:10  <PublicServer> scshunt: canyon
22:36:32  <PublicServer> *** Game still paused (number of players)
22:36:32  <PublicServer> *** scshunt joined the game
22:39:04  <V453000> FUCK LINUX!
22:39:05  <V453000> :>
22:39:08  <scshunt> V453000: what sucks so bad about this game?
22:39:49  <V453000> it has an i-win button of build station
22:39:59  <V453000> building junctions is counter-productive
22:40:10  <V453000> but if others want to play it, no problem with me
22:41:22  <scshunt> i-win button?
22:41:29  <scshunt> I don't understand cargodist at all
22:41:38  <scshunt> so I don't really know what the goal is or why there's a problem
22:41:56  <V453000> the basic idea is, that cargo in stations "wants" to go somewhere
22:42:10  <V453000> while if you transfer at station X from station Y, the stations will handle it all on their own
22:42:22  <V453000> so all you need to do is to connect random web of stations and it works itself
22:42:27  <scshunt> ah
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22:49:03  <scshunt> V453000: How about orders? Do the trains try to sort out the most efficient orders? Or do you need to give them routes?
22:51:58  *** Brumi has quit IRC
22:52:16  <V453000> you give them some route
22:52:20  <V453000> you actually have to
22:52:25  <V453000> but you dont use full load orders etc
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22:54:27  <scshunt> ah ok
22:54:38  <scshunt> and the cargo is assigned to the first train to come by that is going to the target?
22:57:48  <ZxBiohazardZx> yes scshunt
22:57:55  <ZxBiohazardZx> though if a direct link exists they prefer that
22:58:05  <ZxBiohazardZx> A-B-C-D-E-F (stations in order)
22:58:25  <ZxBiohazardZx> connect ABCDEF and AD then traffic from A to EF will use the shortcut to D and then transfer for EF again
22:58:42  <ZxBiohazardZx> all auto :P
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23:09:10  <scshunt> interesting
23:11:10  *** Guest150 is now known as Sylf
23:12:41  <Sylf> do we really want to A-B-C-D... etc kind of orders on the ML trains?
23:13:09  <V453000> idk really
23:13:23  <Sylf> I think the good ol' point-to-point trains for ML would be good enough
23:13:36  <V453000> I think so too
23:13:44  <V453000> and a lot more controllable
23:14:06  <V453000> but I really do not mind what you guys do this game
23:14:24  <Sylf> so, for the starter, I want to ignore the fact that this game has cargo dist enabled, and play like any other pax game with ICE and SBahn networks.
23:14:26  <V453000> also
23:14:28  <V453000> owl
23:14:28  <V453000> bye
23:14:31  <Sylf> :P
23:14:35  <V453000> :D
23:14:41  <V453000> right, well then do :)
23:14:49  <Sylf> yup, will do.
23:14:52  <V453000> you have all the executive power to do so :P
23:15:01  <Sylf> I sure do.
23:15:04  <V453000> dominate them minions
23:15:18  <Sylf> I just want some minions too.  But I'll do without them.
23:15:36  <V453000> they will join when they see activity :)
23:15:36  <PublicServer> *** Game still paused (number of players)
23:15:36  <PublicServer> *** Sylf joined the game
23:16:00  <V453000> anyway, good night :)
23:16:42  <PublicServer> <Sylf> huzzah!  My town is bigger!  by 5 people.
23:17:09  <PublicServer> *** Sylf has joined company #1
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23:17:38  <PublicServer> <Sylf> Bio, did you build Rainbow Lake area?
23:18:09  <PublicServer> <Sylf> or let me ask... has anyone beside Bio and I contributed to this game yet?
23:25:15  <PublicServer> <scshunt> Is there any reason not to just connect available primaries?
23:25:33  <PublicServer> <Sylf> because we're not playing a cargo game.
23:25:59  <PublicServer> <scshunt> then why do we have ministik mines?
23:26:02  <PublicServer> <Sylf> the game plan says passengers, mail and valuables only.
23:26:12  <PublicServer> <Sylf> we shouldn't.
23:26:16  <PublicServer> <scshunt> ok
23:26:19  <PublicServer> <Sylf> destroy all that stuff.
23:26:22  <PublicServer> <scshunt> kk
23:26:36  <PublicServer> <scshunt> oh, it's for expansion I think
23:26:38  <PublicServer> <Sylf> there's no point in only having 1 large town on the map.
23:27:04  <PublicServer> <Sylf> and with how many stations we have in that town, the cargo adds absolutely nothing.
23:27:34  <PublicServer> <scshunt> kk
23:29:04  <PublicServer> <Sylf> I could probably use that tactic in sedgewick for a while though
23:29:21  <PublicServer> <Sylf> I think I'll do it.
23:30:11  <PublicServer> <scshunt> ok so for something like Canora
23:30:14  <PublicServer> <scshunt> just make it a through station?
23:30:24  <PublicServer> <scshunt> like Anzac is?
23:30:38  <PublicServer> <Sylf> what you want to do is to decide where you want to build its main station.
23:30:48  <PublicServer> <Sylf> probably away from the town.
23:30:51  <PublicServer> <scshunt> also is it just me or are we bad at item 4?
23:31:01  <PublicServer> <Sylf> then build the local train network that leads up to that main station.
23:31:07  <PublicServer> <scshunt> even for a small town?
23:31:17  <PublicServer> <scshunt> it's 200 residents
23:31:20  <PublicServer> <Sylf> don't keep small towns small.
23:31:34  <PublicServer> <Sylf> you decide how big you want to make your town.
23:31:36  <PublicServer> <scshunt> how do you encourage expansion?
23:31:50  <PublicServer> <Sylf> you basically need to do 2 things.
23:31:56  <PublicServer> <Sylf> Build the local train network
23:31:59  <PublicServer> <Sylf> and build roads.
23:32:17  <PublicServer> <scshunt> ok. I'll try East Coulee then
23:32:52  <PublicServer> <scshunt> since it's reasonably sized
23:35:02  <PublicServer> <scshunt> Do statues help?
23:35:13  <PublicServer> <Sylf> no.
23:35:36  <PublicServer> <Sylf> statues only help with station ratings, not town growth.
23:35:42  <PublicServer> <scshunt> ok
23:36:09  <PublicServer> <Sylf> if you want some ideas on how or what to build, do visit our archives.
23:36:24  <PublicServer> <Sylf> they have many good examples of how to build towns, coop style.
23:55:36  <PublicServer> <scshunt> what are you doing, out of curiosity?
23:56:07  <PublicServer> *** Mazur joined the game
23:56:12  <PublicServer> <Sylf> I'm capturing all mainline trains, so I can destroy and rebuild the mainlines
23:56:20  <PublicServer> <scshunt> I meant in East Coulee
23:56:26  <PublicServer> <scshunt> Someone was doing something there
23:56:33  <PublicServer> <scshunt> what are you rebuilding them as?
23:56:36  <PublicServer> <scshunt> just better networked?
23:56:47  <PublicServer> <Sylf> I was cleaning up some of the roads, especially killing meaningless deadends.
23:56:55  <PublicServer> <scshunt> cool
23:57:02  <PublicServer> <Sylf> deadend roads slow down the town growth
23:57:20  <PublicServer> <scshunt> I'll build the main station for East Coulee then and let you connect it
23:58:53  <PublicServer> <scshunt> We need CL5, right?
23:59:35  <PublicServer> <Sylf> for ML, yes.
23:59:45  <PublicServer> <scshunt> eww, that makes the SLHs suck
23:59:55  <PublicServer> <scshunt> (and they need rebuilding too)

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