Log for #openttdcoop on 15th June 2013:
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00:27:35  <PublicServer> <mfb> why do we have separate mail ML trains?
00:28:17  <PublicServer> <Sylf> I just did't make mixed cargo trains in the beginning
00:28:23  <PublicServer> <Sylf> That's all
00:28:58  <PublicServer> <mfb> oh nice, 70k passengers at PNT
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00:55:50  <PublicServer> <mfb> down to 11k :)
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02:37:35  <Sylf> !unpause
02:37:35  <PublicServer> *** Sylf has unpaused the server. (Use !auto to set it back.)
02:37:37  <PublicServer> *** Game unpaused (number of players)
03:02:39  <AnsonMobil> !password
03:02:39  <PublicServer> AnsonMobil: encase
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03:02:57  <PublicServer> <Sylf> hi
03:03:11  <PublicServer> <Anson> hallo
03:05:53  <PublicServer> <Anson> thanks for explaining BBH01 ... i already had thought whether it would be to simpify it, but since most other BBH that i had seen connected each with everything, even on 3 times 3 lines :-) .....
03:06:43  <PublicServer> <Sylf> it's just a matter of style too.
03:06:45  <PublicServer> *** Anson has joined company #1
03:06:51  <Sylf> !auto
03:06:51  <PublicServer> *** Sylf has enabled autopause mode.
03:12:03  <PublicServer> <Anson> i did my first work on PS at SLH08 ... first one was nuked by a complete redesign :-) and second can be seen now ....
03:12:57  <PublicServer> <Anson> as it was my first, i added some comments to what i did ... but will have to see in the future what and how many comments are needed or are annoying people when looking at the sign list or the landscape
03:13:31  <PublicServer> <Sylf> hmmm
03:15:01  <PublicServer> <Sylf> grr
03:17:57  <PublicServer> <Sylf> ugh
03:18:14  <PublicServer> <Sylf> I'll have to spend lots of time assigning all ICE trains to proper groups
03:19:28  <PublicServer> <Anson> yes, that is ugly work when doing it afterwards ... it's always best to assign the first train and then clone ...
03:19:54  <PublicServer> <Sylf> It's hard to enforce in a multi player game
03:20:30  <PublicServer> <Anson> and i am speaking only of maybe 100 trains in offline games
03:21:36  <PublicServer> <Anson> train 2 has no orders
03:22:27  <PublicServer> <Anson> total of 12 trains with shared orders which fill their orders with implicit destinations
03:24:22  <PublicServer> <Anson> and train 318 belongs to a second group of 10 trains with no orders
03:26:00  <PublicServer> <Anson> as Sbahn, orders mostly are not needed, but i think that they are needed for cargodist, and also at the terminus ACM where they don't always find the exit on first attempt
03:27:28  <PublicServer> <Anson> look at train 300 now, which i have stopped while it tried to leave via the entrance rail
03:31:09  <PublicServer> <Sylf> don't worry about the trains with no orders
03:31:36  <PublicServer> <Sylf> It's intentional
03:34:06  <PublicServer> <Anson> with no orders, trains from the second and fourth platforms often try to leave via the entrance rails and thus go back and forth until another train arrives and forces them to take the exit
03:35:13  <PublicServer> <Sylf> hmmm
03:36:08  <PublicServer> <Sylf> I think it's still okay
03:36:43  <PublicServer> <Sylf> It only happens when the exit is blocked for those trains at the wrong moment
03:42:01  <PublicServer> <Anson> since they load and unload very fast, trains from platform 2 and 4 always follow directly behind trains which leave from 1 and 3 ... and thus it always happens once for all trains on 2 and 4
04:03:09  <BiG> hey :D
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04:07:23  <Antag> hello?
04:07:59  <BiG> hi
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04:09:39  <Antag_> how are things in coop OTTD
04:09:43  <Antag_> ?
04:09:57  <BiG> not very busy
04:10:04  <PublicServer> <Sylf> too busy
04:10:08  <BiG> no way
04:10:30  <Antag_> ;*( oh
04:10:44  <BiG> !password
04:10:44  <PublicServer> BiG: scorch
04:11:08  <PublicServer> *** Big Meech joined the game
04:11:28  <PublicServer> <Big Meech> no way this isnt busy at all
04:12:10  <PublicServer> <Anson> Sylf, i added another exit to ACM which should (mostly) take care of the no-order rains, by giving them an exit when they immediately follow another train
04:13:14  <PublicServer> <Anson> test on platforms 3/4 seems to work, but building the same for 1/2 might be more complicated
04:13:46  <PublicServer> <Sylf> maybe this will work too
04:14:04  <PublicServer> <Sylf> yup, works.
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04:16:31  <PublicServer> <Big Meech> could i make a town with bus service?
04:16:49  <PublicServer> <Sylf> you can try
04:16:55  <PublicServer> <Big Meech> i didnt read the plan
04:16:57  <PublicServer> *** Big Meech has joined spectators
04:17:05  <PublicServer> <Sylf> just know the vehicle limit.
04:17:15  <PublicServer> <Anson> no, it doesn't ... you only were lucky when you tested it
04:17:38  <PublicServer> <Big Meech> what is the command?
04:17:44  <PublicServer> <Big Meech> set max_roadveh ?
04:17:58  <PublicServer> <Sylf> there's no command
04:18:08  <PublicServer> <Big Meech> yeah, rv limit
04:18:10  <PublicServer> <Sylf> for mere mortals
04:18:12  <PublicServer> <Big Meech> in terminal :P
04:18:58  <PublicServer> <Big Meech> Oh nice
04:19:09  <PublicServer> <Big Meech> no vehicles :(
04:21:13  <PublicServer> *** Big Meech has left the game (general timeout)
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04:22:49  <PublicServer> <Anson> do all trains briefly stop at PBS signals, or does that apply only to trains with no orders ?
04:23:04  <PublicServer> <Sylf> only the orderless trains
04:27:30  <Antag_> soo
04:28:06  <Antag_> I played TTD a bit back in the day ... not to the extent you guys do... Im thinking it looks like a lot more fun with a group to keep the challang driving
04:28:20  <Antag_> any tips for how to get started?
04:28:54  <PublicServer> <Sylf> join our multiplayer game here and get inspired
04:29:05  <Antag_> k
04:30:31  <PublicServer> <Sylf> one you play 3-4 games on this server, the world will never be the same after that
04:30:41  <Antag_> I want the public server right
04:30:45  <Antag_> !password
04:30:45  <PublicServer> Antag_: refill
04:30:47  <PublicServer> <Sylf> yes
04:31:25  <Antag_> ok silly question alert... how do i type the password in
04:31:39  <Antag_> I have found the server and selcted it but the join butotn is greyed out
04:31:52  <Sylf> !quickstart
04:31:54  <Antag_> Version mismatch
04:32:00  <Sylf> @quickstart
04:32:00  <Antag_> !quickstart
04:32:01  <Webster> Quickstart - #openttdcoop Wiki -
04:32:07  <Antag_> thanks
04:32:07  <Sylf> go read that page first
04:32:19  <AnsonMobil> !dl
04:32:20  <PublicServer> AnsonMobil: !dl autostart|autottd|lin|lin64|osx|ottdau|source|win32|win64|win9x
04:32:20  <PublicServer> AnsonMobil:
04:32:31  <Sylf> It has everything from where to download, the rules, tips and tricks, etc
04:32:54  <Sylf> Anson, please don't show that command directly, or else people won't read the quickstart
04:35:56  <AnsonMobil> k
04:38:04  <AnsonMobil> i had read the quickstart more than once, but didn't remember that part since i wanted to download from the nightly page. and then only found another (newer) version...
04:39:17  <Antag_> i think that is the issue I had too, my version is different
04:40:21  <PublicServer> <Sylf> quickstart isn't exactly a quickest read, but it has critical information for players on this server
04:40:59  <PublicServer> <Sylf> of course, there's also @@slowstart
04:40:59  <Webster> Read everything on the wiki, and I mean everything
04:41:32  <PublicServer> <Sylf> but then again, we have too many outdated wiki pages too
04:43:06  <Antag_> ok another silly question I downloaded the newGRF pack do i unzip to a specific location
04:43:23  <PublicServer> <Sylf> yes, unzip to.... hm
04:43:41  <PublicServer> <Sylf> are you on mac? Windows? linux?
04:43:50  <Antag_> win 7 x64
04:44:10  <PublicServer> <Sylf> unzip to My Document\Openttd\newgrf
04:44:12  <Antag_> install directory F:\OTTD\openttd-trunk-r25385-windows-win64
04:44:17  <Antag_> oh really ok
04:44:37  <PublicServer> <Sylf> If you downloaded the tar.gz version, you can leave it in one .tar file
04:45:11  <PublicServer> <Sylf> if it was .zip file, of course, you just unzip everything...
04:49:50  <PublicServer> <Anson> when you unzip the zip version, one file will be a duplicate: in one of the normal subfolders and in theobsolete subfolder
04:50:22  <Antag_> yeah had that
04:50:33  <Antag_> now im gettgin the open GFC sound and music
04:51:03  <PublicServer> <Anson> and when looking for a newgrf folder, there are two: newgrf and content_download/newgrf
04:51:18  <Antag_> hmm got an error
04:51:35  <Antag_> the currebtly used base graphisc set is missin a number of sprites
04:51:51  <Antag_> then a bit about development snapshots
04:54:56  <PublicServer> <Anson> do an "update newgrf" from the main screen
04:55:08  <PublicServer> <Anson> and if the error repeats, just ignore it :-)
04:55:31  <Antag_> i dont have thet abutton on main screen
04:55:49  <PublicServer> <Sylf> Update online contents is what you want
04:56:06  <Antag_> "check online content"
04:56:17  <PublicServer> <Sylf> yeah, that.
04:56:23  <Antag_> cool
05:00:16  <Antag_> so the new grfs are fine in multi folders
05:00:27  <PublicServer> <Sylf> yes
05:00:29  <Antag_> ie C:\Users\Antag\Documents\OpenTTD\newgrf\ottdc_grfpack_8.0\ottdc_grfpack
05:04:32  <PublicServer> <Anson> i have one subdir less: .../grfpack/ottdc_grfpack/... , without the subdir that has the version number
05:05:02  <PublicServer> <Anson> that probably is from unzipping into a directory with the archive's name
05:05:57  <PublicServer> <Anson> but i think that OTTD is very tolerant and lookd for grf files in many directories and their subdirectories :-)
05:06:36  <Antag_> ok gettging the names and stations Grfs now
05:06:50  <Antag_> as in the ones you get it to find just be fore connecting
05:07:38  <PublicServer> <Sylf> are you unzipping folder by folder?
05:08:00  <PublicServer> <Sylf> because theres no need to do that if you were
05:08:06  <Antag_> no
05:08:08  <Antag_> im not
05:08:40  <Antag_> !password
05:08:40  <PublicServer> Antag_: vaster
05:08:54  <Antag_> :D
05:08:56  <PublicServer> *** Antag joined the game
05:08:56  <Antag_> im in
05:09:07  <PublicServer> <Sylf> hmmmm
05:09:09  <Antag_> NICE... it links the chats!
05:09:16  <PublicServer> <Sylf> cargo dist is still weird to me
05:10:16  <Antag_> oh... my......
05:10:25  <Antag_> hang on... I just need to go pick up my jaw
05:11:07  <PublicServer> <Antag> th
05:11:21  <PublicServer> <Antag> that town is a people farm
05:12:03  <PublicServer> <Anson> just looked at the parameters of cargodist: effect on distance is set to 100%, thus it tries to send pax to near destinations first ... eg from ACM to flagstaff south/Halt etc
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05:12:45  <PublicServer> <Anson> maybe with a low percentage or even 0%, it would send more pax all across the map :-)
05:13:38  <PublicServer> <Anson> currently, 13k pax are waiting in ACM, and almost 7k of them want to go by Sbahn only :-)
05:16:44  <PublicServer> <Anson> the Sbahn in ACM mostly leaves with empty trains although there are 7k pax waiting ... probably caused by the graph not knowing that trains will go to those towns when they have no explicit order to go there !?!?
05:21:35  <PublicServer> <Anson> to test that, i have given oders to one of the two Sbahn circles at ACM
05:22:20  <PublicServer> <Antag> I like the museum
05:25:26  <PublicServer> <Anson> NOW it seems to work ... graph was recalculated and trains now pick up pax from ACM for the Sbahn destinations
05:26:49  <PublicServer> <Sylf> make that note and let mfb know that orderless trains and cargodist don't mix
05:27:53  <PublicServer> <Antag> there are some nice mods at work here
05:32:10  <PublicServer> <Antag> im going to get some lunch and will be back after
05:32:24  <PublicServer> <Sylf> kk
05:33:18  <PublicServer> <Anson> I'll watch it for some more ... whether it only appeared so, or whether it really works with orders
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05:33:52  <PublicServer> <Sylf> we should reload the game once and let the roads reset themselves
05:34:03  <PublicServer> <Sylf> oh well.  too lazy.
05:40:21  <PublicServer> <Anson> almost looks like a confirmation now : in ACM, there are 4k pax waiting for flagstaff south which is the first station on the no-order route, and only 1300 for flagstaff halt which is the first on the oder route
05:41:44  <PublicServer> <Anson> 2 or 3 sbahn in acm and there are only a few hundred pax left for flagstaff halt, while the other still doesn't pick up pax for flagstaff south
05:47:34  <PublicServer> <Anson> while giving the orders to the second route now too, some stations were not included and thus unreachable in the graph ... that's why now there are a few thousand pax going to "any station" (via flagstaff south)
05:47:52  <PublicServer> <Anson> but the numbers are already shrinking ... seems to work ...
05:48:44  <PublicServer> <Anson> at least trains are now loading at ACM, most of them full to 100%, instead of just turning around and leavuing empty
05:52:34  <PublicServer> <Anson> hehe, there now are no more pax waiting in ACM for flagstaff south and halt ... 7k pax transported with orders ... only up to maybe 1000 wait there, depending on trains arriving with new pax (up to 500++ per train)
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06:06:35  <PublicServer> <Anson> i think i need to feed myself now, and also feed my mouse
06:06:45  <PublicServer> <Sylf> :D
06:07:11  <PublicServer> <Anson> toyland would be useful now : i need batteries :-)
06:11:25  <PublicServer> <Anson> btw: ACM seems to be not only saturated now, but overloaded ... full platforms, waiting trains, and still 11k+ pax and 3500+ mail waiting ...
06:12:03  <PublicServer> <Sylf> cargodist also does some weird stuff
06:12:27  <PublicServer> <Sylf> some pax come to this station from another town, only to take another ICE to get to their destination town
06:13:44  <PublicServer> <Anson> might look weird ... but it often is a circle of cause and effect: graphs look at existing connections and capacities and distributed cargo to them, thus they get more crowded and other lines with low or no traffic are sleeping
06:15:11  <PublicServer> <Anson> hehe, yes ... you don't need to connect every town with every town ! you only need to have some connection between any towns and the graph will route the pax, including several switch stations
06:15:58  <PublicServer> <Sylf> but that saturate some pax at some point needlessly
06:16:12  <PublicServer> <Sylf> so it's better to have connection from every town to every town
06:16:40  <PublicServer> <Anson> you probably also could build a gigantic station in the center of the map, which connects star-like to all other towns ... then cargodist would trake care of transfering them at the central station
06:16:44  <Antag_> hi again
06:17:23  <Antag_> !password
06:17:23  <PublicServer> Antag_: belies
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06:18:05  <PublicServer> <Antag> so what are you working on at the moment
06:19:20  <PublicServer> <Anson> hehe, we are trying to understand the consequences of cargodist :-)
06:19:34  <PublicServer> <Antag> rightyho
06:19:44  <PublicServer> <Antag> and how is that working out?
06:19:55  <PublicServer> <Sylf> I'm trying to be the head of Viking
06:20:17  <PublicServer> <Antag> do you have a pointy hat?
06:23:35  <PublicServer> <Anson> ACM - MIN N ... ACM needs better connection and more trains : currently 4500+ pax are waiting and still growing
06:24:11  <PublicServer> <Sylf> if you do that, more pax will come from other towns to ACM just to get to ministik, I think
06:25:13  <PublicServer> <Anson> hehe, that is the problem of cargodist i think ... the most crowded connections are preferred, and thus become more crowded, etc
06:26:45  <Antag_> I was thinking it would be interesting to have a similar mod that takes into account where the pax want to get from and to and then looks at timetable data to find the quickest route there
06:27:09  <PublicServer> <Anson> we would have to see what happens when we change parameters inb the advanced options, eg setting the saturation so that trains different connections will be used earlier, and reducing the "nearness" factor so that less pax prefer nearby stations and travel across the map
06:27:13  <Antag_> of course that would necessitate the use of timtables.
06:29:09  <PublicServer> <Sylf> we have 60+ groups of trains right now...  No thanks.  I don't want to deal with timetables.
06:29:15  <PublicServer> <Anson> there is some other free sim program which uses routes and timetables to the extreme ... you need to specify everything and when one train doesn't arrive on a specific platform in time, it blocks the whole traffic although all other platforms might be available :-)
06:29:25  <PublicServer> <Sylf> And time tables really gets in coop's way of playing the game
06:29:43  <Antag_> yeh i understand it would be a nightmare... that is what real trainlines must deal with
06:30:09  <PublicServer> <Anson> OTTD has the most advanced intelligence when it comes to send trains automatically from one station to another, without taking care of specifying routes etc
06:30:51  <PublicServer> <Anson> the only use i see in timetables is for FIRS and similar
06:30:57  <Antag_> do you recollect the title of the "other free sim program"?
06:31:17  <Antag_> yeah... or if timetabling is your goal
06:31:55  <PublicServer> <Anson> i had it installed on my old (broken) comp ... would have to search that old HD for some links
06:31:58  <Antag_> I was thinking along the lines that you commented all the pax go to congested stations and make them more congested
06:32:55  <Antag_> if the Pax could see timetables and numbers of other pax at the station they could work out the fastest route to there destination (in a similar manner to the way people do on freways with GPS and live traffic updates)
06:35:30  <PublicServer> <Anson> look at the subsidies ... they mostly are for very distant connections, or where you have no tracks nearby. and when you just finished building them, the subsidies expire
06:36:32  <PublicServer> <Anson> thus cargodist doesn't give a completely random destination for each pax, but uses a graph with all possible connections, and prefers good connections ... with "good" being crowded :-)
06:37:36  <Antag_> yeah people want to go where the "cool" people are
06:38:32  <Antag_> I guess that makes some sense... Think Dubai and Singapore hubs
06:39:10  <PublicServer> <Anson> it probably is only a side effect and not intended
06:39:54  <PublicServer> <Anson> but the alternatives are : go to completely random places, which might even be not connected yet, or g to well connected destinations and cause them to be flooded even more
06:41:36  <PublicServer> <Anson> we would have to try different parameters, like more random selection, less nearby stations, use other connectionms earlier before the first is saturated, etc
06:42:48  <Antag_> I dont mind a semi random system
06:44:02  <PublicServer> <Anson> the main intention (as i understood) is that in normal ottd, you could easily collect all pax in a town with Sbahn by doing "no unload", then transfer at a main station and do some long distance ... but it was not possible to transfer pax to different towns, or to get pax on the reverse route, etc
06:45:01  <Antag_> so number of pax generated at each station based on density of pop in catchment area and go to other destinations based on density there
06:45:22  <Antag_> yeah the original model was to simplistic... pax just wanted to go somewhere else...
06:45:41  <PublicServer> <Anson> now cargodist uses the existing network to find destinations, and we have to finetune parameters to get good results, eg not sending all of them to nearby stations only, or to first saturate a route before using the next one
06:46:01  <Antag_> in reality pax have a destination in mind not just .. shut up and take my money and get me out of this place if its the last thing you ever do
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06:47:16  <Antag_> there is an interesting discussion to be had as to how much the system should effect where people want to go .. and how much where people wnt to go should effect the layout of the system
06:48:27  <Antag_> yes if you put in a rail line between 2 cities the traffic between those citys will increase over time as it is now easier to do trade between the cities etc
06:48:46  <PublicServer> <Anson> yes .... part 1 is the convenience for players, that pax go to existing and well connected destinations
06:49:31  <Antag_> but at the same time if there are 2 big cities people will want to move between them even if there is not a route... this is where a shrewd tycoon will capitalise on the needs of the customers and build the needed routs
06:49:44  <PublicServer> <Anson> and part two would be the challenge to adjust the network when pax want to go elsewhere, to destinations which are not well connected or not connected at all
06:49:51  <Antag_> yeah
06:50:03  <Antag_> as you say this is a balancing act
06:50:45  <PublicServer> <Anson> as i understand, this is the first cargodist game, and thus a lot experimental :-)
06:50:48  <Antag_> it might be benificial to implement a 3rd element
06:51:01  <Antag_> people do not like being in overcrowded places
06:51:58  <Antag_> so if you have an efficient superline people will flock to it... but if it becomes overcrowded and waiting times get too large the pax get discuraged and seek alternate route or destination
06:52:27  <Antag_> right.. ill try to keep that in mind and not get too picky to start with ;p
06:52:54  <PublicServer> <Anson> i think there is such a parameter in the advanced options : how saturated routes have to be until the next routes are used too
06:53:08  <Antag_> right that is good
06:53:30  <Antag_> so in viking... I see you have layed out the rodes for the future city
06:53:32  <PublicServer> <Anson> and currently, the parameters probably are set to "use nearest towns first, and only use other routes when the first is completely saturated"
06:53:57  <Antag_> lol rodes
06:54:18  <Antag_> is that an IKEA store HAHA
06:54:36  <PublicServer> <Sylf> yes it is, from the Swedish house set
06:54:43  <PublicServer> <Antag> nice
06:55:33  <PublicServer> <Antag> so this is a common stratergy? build the road network and a train line and strat transporting to encorage city growth on an epic scale?
06:56:39  <PublicServer> <Sylf> there's no single prescribed strategy, really.
06:57:09  <PublicServer> <Sylf> we define our game plan before we start building, and build the whole map according to the plan
06:57:19  <PublicServer> <Sylf> that's the golden rule of this server
06:57:21  <PublicServer> <Antag> yeh i saw that
06:57:31  <PublicServer> <Antag> where is the plan to be found?
06:58:04  <PublicServer> <Sylf> It's normally found under !!NETWORK PLAN!!
06:58:22  <PublicServer> <Sylf> which, the sign is found at the very top of the signs list
06:58:40  <PublicServer> <Anson> but some strategies are the only meaningfull ... eg building roads so that lots of fre space is left, and no tiles are too far away from roads ... and that you build trains networks first since it is easier to place them on free land, and in a matter to cover the entire area
06:59:41  <Antag_> right ... so the plan is not to the detail or what cites will conect where and when
07:00:28  <PublicServer> <Sylf> we don't dictate to that level
07:00:38  <PublicServer> <Anson> i am also new here, but as i heard, some games had no pax and were about transporting a big amounbt of goods to single indistry, etc
07:00:50  <PublicServer> <Antag> ok
07:01:08  <PublicServer> <Sylf> we actually don't play for amount of cargo or amount of money.
07:01:30  <PublicServer> <Anson> then it was on the prozone ?
07:01:32  <PublicServer> <Antag> so the bit about no visible depots and all depots behind reversers or terminus?
07:01:46  <PublicServer> <Sylf> We either play for nice looking train networks, or insane amount of trains, or both
07:02:16  <PublicServer> <Anson> antag: do a "send for maintenance" with any visible depots, and you need years to clean up afterwards :-)
07:02:22  <PublicServer> <Sylf> prozone is completely out of the picture.
07:02:53  <PublicServer> <Antag> obviously im not understaning the term "visible"
07:02:59  <PublicServer> <Sylf> the whole depot is because, if you put a visible depot, when we start upgrading our trains, the trains will skip an order and go for the depot
07:02:59  <PublicServer> <Antag> can you expand on that?
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07:03:25  <PublicServer> <Sylf> Let me find a picture and a save game
07:04:22  <Sylf>
07:04:23  <Webster> Title: Transport Tycoon Forums View topic - Most efficient depot/rail switch setup? (at
07:05:23  <PublicServer> <Anson> Antag, did you already go nuts ?
07:06:17  <PublicServer> <Anson> nuts is a specific train set which makes it easy to replace trains every few years, and when you do that, tzrains start going to the nearest depots ... and jam the whole network when depots are visible at bad locations
07:06:26  <Sylf> oh, this one also explains invisible depot
07:06:26  <Sylf>
07:06:58  <Antag_> ok
07:07:31  <Antag_> this makes sence
07:08:58  <PublicServer> <Anson> an alternative to having invisible depots would be to include maintain orders for every train ... then it would go to a specific depot only
07:09:16  <Antag_> yea
07:09:28  <Antag_> so if they are invisible... how do they ever find one?
07:09:34  <PublicServer> <Anson> but that is easily messed up by people forgetting to give such orders, or when you specify a "go to depot" command for all, which ignores that order
07:09:42  <Antag_> the deal is that they are only viible in small controlled secitons of track right
07:09:56  <Antag_> like just on that little bit out from the station the the depot
07:10:14  <PublicServer> <Sylf> basically yes
07:10:18  <PublicServer> <Anson> right, or with specific orders
07:10:20  <PublicServer> <Antag> ok
07:11:22  <PublicServer> <Anson> ACM to MIN N looks better now ... only 2500 waiting instead of 4500
07:12:08  <PublicServer> <Sylf> I've added at least 1 train for every possible combination of main stations
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07:12:46  <PublicServer> <Antag> oh right ... its drive on right
07:13:08  <PublicServer> <Anson> hehe, where do you come from ?
07:13:18  <PublicServer> <Antag> i was looking at a bunch of stations thinking ... why can a train not find this ... then I noticed the trains going past the oppisite way
07:13:21  <PublicServer> <Antag> Australia
07:13:27  <PublicServer> <Anson> there are few countries left which drive left ...
07:13:42  <PublicServer> <Antag> Aus Singapore and UK are all on left
07:13:57  <PublicServer> <Sylf> French trains too
07:14:02  <PublicServer> <Antag> there are fewer contires that use imperial :p
07:14:36  <PublicServer> <Anson> what about japan ? they don't drive left any longer ?
07:14:55  <PublicServer> <Antag> possibly they do ... i just listed the 3 off to top of my head
07:15:02  <PublicServer> <Sylf> that'll never change
07:15:04  <PublicServer> <Antag> canada might also
07:15:19  <PublicServer> <Sylf> no, Canada drives on right.
07:15:21  <PublicServer> <Anson> no, USA+canada would be stupid to do it differently
07:15:40  <PublicServer> <Anson> some years ago, swededn was a lefty too
07:16:19  <PublicServer> <Sylf> It's one thing to switch the system when there are only so many drivers on the road
07:16:47  <PublicServer> <Anson> but most countries which have neighbors, have switched to right driving ... which leaves GB (an island), AUS (a big island), and some former british colonies
07:16:55  <Antag_> india and the south of africa also
07:17:11  <Antag_> most of SE Asia
07:17:27  <Antag_>
07:17:28  <Webster> Title: File:Countries driving on the left or right.svg - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (at
07:17:55  <PublicServer> <Anson> i saw videos on youtube ... do the SE asia countries drive on any specific side at all ? :-) LOL
07:18:29  <PublicServer> <Sylf> they all drive bicycles and rickshaws.
07:18:36  <PublicServer> <Sylf> who cares where on the road they drive?
07:21:16  <Antag_> you have not been to singapore have you?
07:21:55  <Antag_> poor antarctica has no information
07:23:11  <Antag_> so am  I right in thienking a lot of time is spent refining the trains and only a little in building tracks?
07:23:23  <PublicServer> <Sylf> no
07:23:30  <Antag_> or i that just cos its the cargodist test map
07:23:40  <PublicServer> <Sylf> most time is spent on building and expanding rail networks
07:23:52  <PublicServer> <Antag> oh... i havent seen you guys doing much buildign
07:23:58  <PublicServer> <Sylf> this will probably coop's only cargo dist game
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07:24:32  <PublicServer> <Sylf> that's because anson's been on analysis mode all day
07:24:46  <PublicServer> <Antag> ok
07:25:04  <PublicServer> <Sylf> while you guys were talking, I built SLH 10 and the town of Viking
07:25:10  <PublicServer> <Antag> so i have jsut seen an atypical result from my small dataset
07:25:26  <PublicServer> <Antag> i did see that spring up
07:27:05  <PublicServer> <Antag> is the 2 bridges on the overpass due to 1 bridge being a slow point
07:27:58  <Sylf>
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07:30:42  <Anson> hehe... probably switcjrd crom wlan to phon whem o went afk
07:31:41  <Anson> amd eithout kryboatd my typing is bad
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07:34:48  <PublicServer> <Sylf> 2:30 AM again...
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07:35:13  <Anson> 9.30am
07:35:22  <Antag_> 340PM
07:38:16  <PublicServer> <Anson> back at keyboard ...
07:39:03  <PublicServer> <Anson> then we are almost evenly spaced around the globe :-)
07:40:22  <Antag_> haha we could keep a 24 hour watch
07:40:23  <Antag_> lol
07:40:55  <PublicServer> <Antag> so how does one get into participating with somethign on this scale?
07:41:17  <PublicServer> <Anson> no, since sylf plays in the evening, you in the afternoon, and i during the night ... else we wouldn't have met :-)
07:41:41  <Antag_> well its saterday hear
07:41:47  <Antag_> here too
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07:41:58  <Antag_> normally I would play evening
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07:44:14  <PublicServer> <Anson> if you know what you are doing, have a look at everything, see what needs to be fixed or improved, and do it
07:44:32  <PublicServer> <Anson> if you don't know what you are doing, better wait and watch a lot first :-)
07:44:38  <PublicServer> <Antag> im not sure I know what im doing to the level that people here do lol
07:45:13  <PublicServer> <Antag> there are some things in here that look odd to me... but im not sure if its me or them that are odd
07:45:59  <PublicServer> <Anson> hehe, same for me ... but just ask, and i see whether i understand different things than you :-)
07:46:01  <PublicServer> <Antag> like these little bits of 90degree side shoots on lines
07:46:44  <PublicServer> <Anson> you are probably speaking of prios ... like at the sign "now merge after split"
07:46:51  <PublicServer> <Antag> at SLH09
07:47:37  <PublicServer> <Anson> read on the topic of priorities in the wiki
07:47:45  <Antag_> ok
07:48:24  <PublicServer> <Anson> or look at the signals, and wiork your way backwards from the entry signal at "X"
07:49:02  <PublicServer> <Anson> do you see X ?
07:49:20  <PublicServer> <Antag> ? i see an X in your text lol
07:49:34  <PublicServer> <Anson> watch how it turns red when a train approaches onb the main line, and watch all signals between X and that train
07:49:52  <PublicServer> <Anson> the sign X near SLLH09
07:50:19  <PublicServer> <Anson> you can open a list of all signs to easily find any label on the map
07:51:00  <Antag_> yeah
07:51:16  <PublicServer> <Anson> start at X and follow the signals ...
07:51:38  <PublicServer> <Anson> at X uis an entry whioch turns red when it has no green exit signal
07:52:00  <PublicServer> <Anson> and now the trick: the exit signal is opposite the driving direction :-)
07:52:39  <PublicServer> <Anson> then the "strange rails which can't be used", but the signals on them are applied !!!!
07:52:59  <PublicServer> <Anson> and thus you end up at the exit signal, near sign Y
07:52:59  <Antag_> oh
07:53:02  <Antag_> smart
07:53:30  <PublicServer> <Anson> as soon as a train arrives near Y, all signals turn red and the next train on the sideline at X stops
07:53:52  <PublicServer> <Anson> there are several chapters on the wiki on those constructions
07:54:17  <Antag_> yeah so rather than the side line train getting its nose infront and stopping the mainline it stops and allows the minline to continue and meges in behind them
07:54:40  <PublicServer> <Anson> exactly
07:55:19  <PublicServer> <Anson> the length of that priority (short Prio) is determined by train speeds, available space, importance, etc
07:56:28  <PublicServer> <Anson> look near SLH08 ... there are some more prios which are built a bit differently
07:57:13  <Antag_> yeah
07:58:30  <PublicServer> <Anson> that was built by me :-) i like the "reverse arrows" in the layout better than those short bows :-)
07:58:48  <PublicServer> <Anson> but the effect is the same ... sidelines at X are stopped, when a train comes to Y
07:58:55  <Antag_> yeah
08:00:02  <PublicServer> <Anson> there are lots of extremely short prios, eg at XXX
08:00:41  <PublicServer> <Anson> you see them ?
08:00:44  <PublicServer> <Antag> yrah
08:00:58  <PublicServer> <Antag> they odnt have the parrallell track
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08:01:48  <PublicServer> <Anson> with the signals for entry, exit and the third which is both, you can build those short prios
08:02:40  <Antag_> should tht hve happened
08:02:56  <PublicServer> <Antag> at XXX
08:03:00  <PublicServer> <Anson> i stopped trains ... now you can see how that construction works ...
08:03:07  <PublicServer> <Antag> right ok
08:03:34  <PublicServer> <Anson> trains from left go to left and right, and when one is jammed, they still can use the other
08:04:09  <PublicServer> <Antag> cool
08:05:11  <PublicServer> <Anson> i think the missed a few signals ...
08:05:33  <PublicServer> <Antag> so left and right track are the same correct?
08:05:56  <PublicServer> <Antag> after the staiton i mean
08:05:59  <PublicServer> <Anson> block signals direct trains to use them when it is the "nearest path" to the destination
08:06:22  <PublicServer> <Anson> twoway signals allow a choice, to use the other when one signal is red
08:09:29  <PublicServer> <Antag> so stopping those trains diverted a pile ot the right side of the Ministick station... thats ok cos the 2 lines from the station are just a duplicate line right?
08:10:55  <PublicServer> <Anson> yes ... too many trains for a single line --> just duplicate it and add some switches so that trains can select where they need to go
08:11:18  <PublicServer> <Anson> when one route is full/blocked/jammed, they select the other
08:11:52  <PublicServer> <Anson> that is the task of the pathfinder in ottd ... it finds pathes :-)
08:12:07  <Antag_> well named that one
08:12:20  <PublicServer> <Anson> and when the pathfinder can't find a depot, it is said to be hidden or invisible (to the pathfinder)
08:13:54  <PublicServer> <Anson> look at XXX
08:14:13  <PublicServer> <Antag> yeah
08:14:20  <PublicServer> <Anson> there is the mainline with two rails, each having a prio
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08:14:59  <PublicServer> <Anson> when trains come from the station and want to merge, at most one train is stuck and the next will take the other side of the mainline
08:16:47  <PublicServer> <Anson> that's also why there is no signal in the front of the tunnel at Y
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08:17:09  <PublicServer> <Anson> with a signal there, trains would queue behind a waiting train and cause a jam
08:17:48  <PublicServer> <Anson> without a signal at Y, the split at Z will send trains to the other track instead
08:18:19  <Antag_> yeah thats effecitn
08:18:31  <Antag_> althogh why is Z not clser
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08:20:01  <PublicServer> <Anson> do you know about max curve speed ?
08:20:06  <Antag_> right
08:20:17  <PublicServer> <Antag> i see now
08:20:40  <PublicServer> <Anson> z is exactly halfway between the next curves to the left and right
08:20:50  <PublicServer> <Antag> so its ok if the curve is an S shape
08:21:00  <PublicServer> <Anson> if you move Z, either of them would be too short and slow down trains
08:21:19  <PublicServer> <Anson> the S-band at Z does not slow it down
08:21:33  <PublicServer> <Antag> k
08:21:35  <PublicServer> <Anson> but the two curves in the same direction do
08:21:41  <PublicServer> <Antag> ok
08:21:56  <PublicServer> <Antag> im loearngin lots here
08:22:19  <PublicServer> <Anson> A followed by A would slow them down
08:22:25  <PublicServer> <Anson> and B followed by B
08:22:36  <PublicServer> <Antag> yeah
08:22:38  <PublicServer> <Anson> but not B followed by A (near Z)
08:23:24  <PublicServer> <Anson> that's is also a topic on the wiki ... but it can be understood more easily when you see it in action :-)
08:23:38  <PublicServer> <Antag> yeah a train can pull round a S bend but not a U
08:24:28  <PublicServer> <Antag> so there is no issue with putting short side steps in a rail...
08:24:30  <PublicServer> <Anson> it always depends on the number of wagons which are between two 45 degree curves which turn in the SAME direction
08:24:37  <PublicServer> <Antag> all this time i have been trying to minimise that
08:24:39  <PublicServer> <Anson> thus S bend doesn't matter
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08:25:49  <PublicServer> <Anson> at XXX, i marked the waiting spaces for trais with a different rail type (darker)
08:26:39  <PublicServer> <Anson> thus you can see that each of the pathes has space for one train, and there are no signals behind the last wagon which would allow more trains to pass the split point behind them
08:26:57  <PublicServer> <Anson> exception: the longer path for one of them has space for two trains
08:27:19  <PublicServer> <Antag> yeah
08:29:11  <PublicServer> <Anson> when you want to do some more tests, you can also go to the welcome server
08:29:36  <Antag_> ok
08:29:51  <PublicServer> <Anson> both have the same parameters, most importantly, they have some specific settings which influence how trains react to red twoway signals :-)
08:29:51  <Antag_> so for offline pay
08:30:24  <PublicServer> <Anson> when you play offline, you need to set those parameters yourself
08:30:29  <PublicServer> <Antag> I should copy the welcome server mods set for a good default test situation?
08:30:47  <PublicServer> <Anson> but to do that, you need to know which they are and how they are spelled :-)
08:30:54  <PublicServer> <Antag> oh
08:30:56  <PublicServer> <Antag> lol
08:31:12  <PublicServer> <Antag> it there a list or config file in the wikiw ?
08:31:22  <PublicServer> <Anson> just save the game here or on the other server and kload it offline
08:32:13  <PublicServer> <Antag> well thanks so much for taking the time to share your knowladge with me
08:32:22  <PublicServer> <Anson> i once had set all those parameters myself, but after my old comp crashed, that info was lost :-(
08:32:44  <PublicServer> <Antag> Im off to meet up with a RL friend so try and get them hooked
08:33:20  <PublicServer> <Anson> when you want to go to the other server, you need a different version of otd
08:33:31  <PublicServer> <Anson> you can install it to a different directory
08:33:39  <Antag_> yeah I did that today
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08:33:58  <Antag_> for this server is different to the singleplyaer I had
08:34:11  <PublicServer> <Anson> btw: this server stops running when there is less than two players active
08:34:17  <PublicServer> <Antag> oh
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08:34:32  <PublicServer> <Anson> but you can edit also when there is only you
08:34:50  <PublicServer> <Antag> untill you run out of cash right?
08:34:50  <PublicServer> <Anson> on the other server, it runs with only one player active
08:35:04  <PublicServer> <Anson> and you can't edit most things while it is not running
08:35:38  <PublicServer> <Anson> here you also can only edit until you run out of cash
08:36:12  <PublicServer> <Anson> but if you spend THAT MUCH money here, you will get kicked for excessife terraforming etc :-) LOL
08:36:24  <PublicServer> <Antag> yeah
08:36:43  <PublicServer> <Antag> well thnks for the OTTD 101
08:36:49  <PublicServer> <Anson> btw: each serever maps the ingame chat to IRC
08:37:03  <PublicServer> <Antag> yeah i have been using that
08:37:06  <PublicServer> <Anson> the channel for the other is #openttdcoop.stable
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08:37:46  <Antag_> ok
08:37:50  <Antag_> catch you round
08:38:03  <Antag_> thanks again
08:38:05  <PublicServer> <Anson> the other has no server pw, but has more companies
08:38:27  <PublicServer> <Anson> thus you need to make some money first, and then can experiment a bit
08:38:53  <PublicServer> <Anson> CU
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08:39:11  <Antag_> bye
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09:34:25  <Vinnie_nl> !password
09:34:26  <PublicServer> Vinnie_nl: payers
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17:00:43  <Ulsh> !password
17:00:43  <PublicServer> Ulsh: payers
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17:55:33  <Vinnie_nl> !playercount
17:55:33  <PublicServer> Vinnie_nl: Number of players: 0 (0 spectators)
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18:04:56  <Ryton> !password
18:04:56  <PublicServer> Ryton: payers
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18:25:48  <Vinnie_nl> !password
18:25:48  <PublicServer> Vinnie_nl: myopic
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18:26:05  <PublicServer> <Vinnie> hello
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18:28:57  <PublicServer> <Ryton> hi vinnie
18:29:00  <PublicServer> <Vinnie> hey
18:29:02  <PublicServer> <Ryton> wanna play?
18:29:17  <PublicServer> <Vinnie> no need, just looking for now
18:29:35  <PublicServer> <Ryton> same here
18:29:53  <PublicServer> <Ryton> i'm not so much into paxgames anyway
18:30:03  <PublicServer> <Vinnie> to mutch repetition for me
18:30:19  <PublicServer> <Vinnie> basicly every sbahn so far is the same
18:32:09  <PublicServer> <Vinnie> altough standard could be a test to see SRNW work with cargo dist
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18:33:11  <PublicServer> <Ryton> mfb was testing orderless network
18:33:21  <PublicServer> <Ryton> but someone observed and changed the orders
18:33:27  <PublicServer> <Ryton> since pax were piling up
18:34:19  <PublicServer> <Ryton> I might build a small city though
18:34:38  <PublicServer> <Vinnie> but SRNW should work a little
18:35:18  <PublicServer> <Ryton> idk
18:35:24  <PublicServer> <Ryton> try it out, i'd say :-)
18:36:24  <PublicServer> <Vinnie> funny how PNT exit uses a reverser with CL2
18:36:44  <PublicServer> <Vinnie> without reverser the footprint will be smaller and also use CL2
18:37:02  <PublicServer> <Ryton> where's PNT?
18:37:08  <PublicServer> <Vinnie> Paintearth:
18:37:12  <PublicServer> <Ryton> k found it
18:37:50  <PublicServer> <Ryton> and thats potentially for a full line?
18:38:00  <PublicServer> <Ryton> 2 entries, 2 reversers
18:38:07  <PublicServer> <Vinnie> 4 reversers
18:38:17  <PublicServer> <Ryton> ah yes, 4
18:38:36  <PublicServer> <Ryton> should be enough then for CL2 :-) its probably tested
18:38:46  <PublicServer> <Ryton> thats like a double tunnel :-)
18:39:00  <PublicServer> <Vinnie> i can only imagine it is done for the depots behind the station
18:39:06  <PublicServer> <Vinnie> so they are invisible
18:39:16  <PublicServer> <Ryton> and for an easier entry design
18:39:26  <PublicServer> <Ryton> no need to mix in exit tracks
18:39:28  <PublicServer> <Vinnie> but Ministik ICE is also roro and has no depots
18:39:38  <PublicServer> <Ryton> btw I only ocunt 3 reversers :p
18:39:53  <PublicServer> <Vinnie> yes 2 exit tracks is a split
18:40:05  <PublicServer> <Vinnie> East and west SLH 07
18:41:23  <PublicServer> <Ryton> still, nice & clean design :-)
18:41:30  <PublicServer> <Ryton> I'll go in, I think, for one small city
18:41:38  <PublicServer> *** Ryton has joined company #1
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18:42:50  <PublicServer> <Ryton> transfer can have a cost (negative income??
18:42:54  <PublicServer> <Vinnie> yes
18:48:43  <PublicServer> <Vinnie> nice
18:48:59  <PublicServer> <Ryton> whats nice?
18:49:18  <PublicServer> <Vinnie> you using wooden bridges with speedlimit of 32 kmph
18:49:34  <PublicServer> <Vinnie> keep it for fun
18:49:36  <PublicServer> <Ryton> ah, that might be a problem :-)
18:49:39  <PublicServer> <Ryton> sure :-)
18:49:50  <PublicServer> <Ryton> I mostly change bridges once
18:49:56  <PublicServer> <Ryton> and then ctr-copy them
18:50:03  <PublicServer> <Ryton> so I dont look at it , only notice it by the color
18:50:21  <PublicServer> <Vinnie> i just hotkey my bridges
18:50:36  <PublicServer> <Vinnie> build bridge, press 1 and always build fastest
18:55:01  <PublicServer> *** Sylf joined the game
18:55:10  <PublicServer> <Sylf> Cargodist srnw.  curious idea.
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19:01:42  <PublicServer> <Vinnie> well someone already killed idea
19:01:42  <PublicServer> <Vinnie> hello
19:01:53  <PublicServer> <Ryton> hi silf
19:01:59  <PublicServer> <Ryton> sylf*
19:02:01  <PublicServer> <Sylf> :)
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19:17:34  <PublicServer> <Vinnie> cya later
19:17:37  <PublicServer> <Ryton> bya
19:17:39  <PublicServer> *** Vinnie has left the game (leaving)
19:20:24  <PublicServer> <Ryton> hmm, not a good idea
19:20:34  <PublicServer> <Ryton> to remove that light
19:20:49  <PublicServer> <Sylf> we can't remove the trains even with magic bulldozer  :P
19:21:11  <PublicServer> <Ryton> doesnt matter too much
19:21:15  <PublicServer> <Ryton> just a beginning city
19:21:22  <PublicServer> <Ryton> not many casualties
19:25:31  <Sylf> !rcon set demand_distance
19:25:31  <PublicServer> Sylf: Current value for 'demand_distance' is: '100' (min: 0, max: 255)
19:26:08  <Sylf> !rcon set demand_distance 20
19:26:15  <Sylf> !rcon set demand_distance 0
19:27:33  *** ChanServ sets mode: +v Vinnie_nl
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19:40:56  <PublicServer> <Ryton> hmm
19:41:06  <PublicServer> <Ryton> the SEX ice station should have been built a bit further
19:41:18  <PublicServer> <Ryton> now its within the city, & it accepts passsengers :s
19:41:28  <PublicServer> <Sylf> you can still move it
19:41:39  <PublicServer> <Ryton> true
19:41:45  <PublicServer> <Ryton> but thats a rebuild then :-)
19:41:51  <PublicServer> <Ryton> and defeats the concept of the bridging
19:41:57  <PublicServer> <Ryton> but might be the best option indeed
19:42:20  <PublicServer> <Sylf> like, over here?
19:42:35  <PublicServer> <Ryton> yeah
19:42:38  <PublicServer> <Ryton> makes more sense
19:43:58  <PublicServer> <Ryton> ah cl5
19:45:00  <PublicServer> <Ryton> pff
19:45:02  <PublicServer> <Ryton>  :-)
19:45:04  <PublicServer> <Sylf> :P
19:45:35  <PublicServer> <Ryton> cl5 that close to the ML is annoying :)
19:45:51  <PublicServer> <Ryton> I'll just make a different type of entry
19:45:53  <PublicServer> <Sylf> well...
19:46:27  <PublicServer> <Ryton> could move the ML too :p
19:51:49  <PublicServer> <Ryton> oopz
19:51:59  <PublicServer> <Ryton> 3 renegade trains :p
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19:58:11  <Maraxus> !password
19:58:11  <PublicServer> Maraxus: sinewy
19:58:29  <PublicServer> *** Maraxus joined the game
19:58:42  <PublicServer> <Maraxus> hi
19:58:44  <PublicServer> <Sylf> hi
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20:19:09  <PublicServer> <Ryton> I'm off
20:19:13  <PublicServer> <Ryton> cya Sylf
20:19:15  <PublicServer> <Sylf> see ya
20:19:19  <PublicServer> <Ryton> ah Maraxus
20:19:25  <PublicServer> <Ryton> still building, are you?
20:19:31  <PublicServer> <Maraxus> nope
20:19:33  <PublicServer> <Ryton> kk
20:19:35  <PublicServer> *** Ryton has joined spectators
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20:20:31  <PublicServer> <Maraxus> I'm off as well - cu
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20:47:53  <fonsinchen> !pw
20:48:00  <fonsinchen> !password
20:48:00  <PublicServer> fonsinchen: prying
20:48:09  <PublicServer> *** Game still paused (number of players)
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20:59:59  <PublicServer> *** Game still paused (number of players)
21:00:02  <PublicServer> *** Mazur joined the game
21:00:27  <PublicServer> <Mazur> Oh, I thought you came to play, fors.
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21:07:06  <fonsinchen> Sorry, I'm not so good at your play style. It looks very interesting, though.
21:18:39  <Vinnie_nl> looks like poop :P
21:18:58  <Vinnie_nl> !password
21:18:58  <PublicServer> Vinnie_nl: archer
21:19:05  <PublicServer> *** Game still paused (number of players)
21:19:05  <PublicServer> *** Game unpaused (number of players)
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21:19:11  <PublicServer> <Vinnie> hello
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21:19:31  <fonsinchen> Poop with a lot of links and cargo flows in it.
21:19:59  <Vinnie_nl> good thing to stress your patches then
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21:52:12  <PublicServer> <Mazur> Halo 2.
21:53:11  <PublicServer> <Mazur> Oh, supper's ready,  I'll saty in but be absent for half an hour tops.
21:53:27  <PublicServer> <Vinnie> supper at 12 in the evening?
21:53:41  <PublicServer> <Mazur> I live shifted atm.
21:56:03  <PublicServer> <Mazur> Jam at SLH -05
21:56:45  <PublicServer> <Vinnie> blame the creator of the SLH
22:03:05  <PublicServer> <Vinnie> i don't see the problem
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22:25:33  <PublicServer> <Vinnie> Mazur: still here?
22:25:52  <PublicServer> <Vinnie> or rather, back yet
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22:27:29  *** Webster sets mode: +o KenjiE20
22:28:37  <PublicServer> *** Vinnie has left the game (leaving)
22:28:37  <PublicServer> *** Game paused (number of players)
22:29:15  <PublicServer> *** Mazur has joined spectators
22:29:40  <Mazur> Making post-supper coffee.
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