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Log for #openttdcoop on 17th September 2013:
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00:14:04  *** Djanx has joined #openttdcoop
00:15:33  <Djanx> !password
00:15:33  <PublicServer> Djanx: vetoed
00:16:08  <PublicServer> *** Game still paused (number of players)
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00:39:51  *** tatertom has joined #openttdcoop
00:40:15  <tatertom> hey are the guys that were just in the pub server in here? have questions about linked material...
00:40:29  <tatertom> http://wiki.openttdcoop.org/File:TerminusPrimary.png
00:49:29  <tatertom> or this guy: http://wiki.openttdcoop.org/File:Mark_Clock.png
00:49:42  <tatertom> I have no idea what i am looking at
00:50:10  <tatertom> timer train momentarily reds the paths, i get that, but i don't see how anything else is doing anythin
00:50:40  <tatertom> it's like i'm looking at "logic gates", something i have had trouble trying to comprehend in the past
00:51:03  <tatertom> and building them from game train tracks isn't helping, lol
00:52:23  <tatertom> what is all this memory business about, too
00:54:04  <phatmatt> the little pairs of combo signals are memories
00:54:23  <phatmatt> as soon as the timer train turns the block next to it red, they'll stay red until reset
00:54:46  <phatmatt> the clock is designed so that, iff the timer train gets around the loop without the memories being reset (to green), they'll all be red
00:54:50  <phatmatt> so the final output is red too
00:56:01  <phatmatt> looking at it in action migh thelp
00:56:04  <phatmatt> *might help
00:57:26  *** Mark has quit IRC
00:58:24  <tatertom> in action would def. help me
00:58:52  <tatertom> the first thing i don't get is how a sig stays red with no trains moving though or whatever
00:59:28  <tatertom> like, i get that a train passing by activates combos and whatnot, but why wouldn't they change back once it's gone?
00:59:58  <tatertom> is that what the little-loop train is doing? that doesn't make sense
01:00:17  <phatmatt> they stay red, trust me ;)
01:00:25  <phatmatt> go see for yourself by loading the game up
01:00:34  <phatmatt> on the outside of the memories is its output
01:00:47  <phatmatt> on the inside (inside the timer train loop) is the reset inutput
01:00:49  <phatmatt> *input
01:01:16  <phatmatt> the two circular loops with two trains above are just NOTs
01:01:26  <phatmatt> red -> green, green -> red
01:01:32  <tatertom> well, i'm sure they do, but i guess i am asking why they should do that. i'm not grasping how that happens with the info in my head about how the signals work.  is this yet another awesome newGRF thing i'm not used to, being new to coop?
01:01:49  <phatmatt> no, it's just standard openttd signals
01:01:53  <tatertom> ok
01:02:14  <tatertom> i have always had problems understanding NOTs ORs and all that biz
01:02:18  <BiG_MeEcH> :)
01:02:47  <phatmatt> a presignal is green iff there's another green presignal, and the other presignal in the memory pair is red because the other one is
01:02:52  <tatertom> the fact that i have a problem with that bothers me to no end, lol
01:03:00  <phatmatt> it's a stable state, until there's a green presignal provided by the reset
01:03:25  <tatertom> ok, so a train pases somewhere, and changes the signal
01:03:28  <tatertom> with you so far
01:03:37  <tatertom> i think
01:03:38  <phatmatt> the timer train passes on its loop, yeah
01:03:43  <phatmatt> and forces a memory pair to red
01:03:56  <phatmatt> see, it'll run through the memory's signal bloc
01:03:57  <phatmatt> kk
01:04:01  <tatertom> ok, but this timer train is always just a loopin around, though, right?
01:04:03  <phatmatt> yes
01:04:11  <tatertom> so this keeps on doing that
01:04:28  <tatertom> shouldn't it be flopping red/green all the time then?
01:04:44  <tatertom> there's one off signal i'm not noticing or something
01:04:44  <phatmatt> the memories stay red until reset
01:04:57  <phatmatt> the page that links to it says "The clock is red all the time, until all the memories become red - by the little running train making a complete loop without being interrupted. Interruption occurs by resetting all memories to green whenever a train overflows."
01:05:02  <phatmatt> in case you didn't see that
01:05:26  <phatmatt> train overflows = one of the inputs at the very top, NOT'd
01:05:27  <tatertom> crap, lets make sure we're looking at same thing
01:05:31  <phatmatt> ok
01:05:38  <phatmatt> i'm looking at
01:05:39  <phatmatt> 17:52 < tatertom> or this guy: http://wiki.openttdcoop.org/File:Mark_Clock.png
01:05:43  <tatertom> mark ... ok
01:06:02  <tatertom> i'm back, lol
01:06:06  <phatmatt> scroll to the bottom, you'll see "file links"
01:06:20  <tatertom> ok real quick
01:06:43  <tatertom> the overflow detection - is just a presig coming from overflow sideline, right?
01:06:50  <tatertom> (make sure i'm not off on that)
01:06:59  <phatmatt> yes, it's the top-rightmost track there
01:07:02  <tatertom> no trains run that track then
01:07:09  <phatmatt> no, it's just logic
01:07:09  <tatertom> just for sigs
01:07:11  <tatertom> kk
01:07:19  <phatmatt> it's signed "overflow detection" in the pic
01:07:20  <tatertom> and same for 'output' track
01:07:24  <phatmatt> mmhmm
01:07:32  <tatertom> ok, perusing some more
01:08:39  <phatmatt> unfortunately i don't know what game that was, but Mark himself or any other op will probably know
01:08:44  <phatmatt> also, gtg. gl ;)
01:09:06  <tatertom> thx for all yer help man
01:11:17  <tatertom> anyone care to pick up where phatmatt left off?
01:11:40  <tatertom> i can offer for trade, anything you want to know about cable tv systems, lol
01:12:16  <tatertom> but be warned, all my conversations, if left to go on long enough, eventually move to cable as a topic anyway. do something long enough...
01:13:45  *** Mark has joined #openttdcoop
01:13:45  *** Webster sets mode: +o Mark
01:14:52  <tatertom> so, i'm still looking at this: http://wiki.openttdcoop.org/File:Mark_Clock.png , and the big squar-ish loop that is right under the yellow label, that means all the memories are just like each other, there's not a in side and out side to them, right?
01:15:52  <tatertom> as in, if it weren't for that one naked line right under yellow label, their data would be split
01:19:28  <BiG_MeEcH> I think that is the overflow line
01:30:06  <tatertom> but that tells the signal in the middle of the output line little-train-loop that every single memory is red when that is the case, though, right? sole-purpose?
01:30:32  <tatertom> otherwise, it'd go red when north half were all red, and ignore whole other side
01:30:37  <tatertom> am i close?
01:31:02  <tatertom> this shizz is absolutely fascinating to me still
01:31:52  <BiG_MeEcH> only when a train overflows will it turn green
01:32:00  <BiG_MeEcH> the little train around the loop kicks them all red
01:32:00  <tatertom> wait
01:32:16  <BiG_MeEcH> when they are all red the one train will engage
01:32:25  <tatertom> is there one of these on the server for me to watch do its thing?
01:32:50  <tatertom> i think i'm at the stage where seeing it in action would give the ah-ha moment
01:32:52  <BiG_MeEcH> That is from an old game and I'm not sure which PSG game it was taken from
01:33:18  <tatertom> ahh, well something like it? a slightly different layout would be similarly helpful
01:33:31  <tatertom> if even just flipped around or something
01:34:06  <tatertom> oh, hey its you
01:34:15  <tatertom> is this the irc you were talking about?
01:36:16  <tatertom> to give you some background of myself to help you get why i'm stuck maybe, i went from vanilaa block sigs straight to pbs's for everything, and when i get em good and jammed up, i get frustraded and reroll half the time, or at least save/quit and take a break, but i'm like ADHD and never go back to em
01:36:32  <BiG_MeEcH> Sure
01:36:38  <Sylf> yo
01:36:42  <tatertom> howdy
01:36:45  <BiG_MeEcH> Well there are uses for both PBS and Presignals
01:36:58  <BiG_MeEcH> some do the same thing at staitons for instance
01:37:22  <tatertom> yeah, the 3-prong, 2-4 finger entries can't work with pbs's
01:37:30  <Sylf> what's the talk today?
01:37:34  <tatertom> but i like how efficient they are in terms in space
01:37:40  <BiG_MeEcH> but presignals only work for certain things like the overflows, timers ( examples you have seen ) and ( some )priorities
01:38:03  <tatertom> i am drawing from you fine people's knowledge of the game, moving from single/multi player to coop
01:38:11  <Sylf> presigs are heavensent
01:38:29  <BiG_MeEcH> tatertom wants more examples and to see it working in real time
01:38:30  <tatertom> i am trying to up my game in them, sylf
01:39:08  <tatertom> i have always had issues really "getting" logic gates, and making them from pretend train tracks isn't helping ;)
01:39:33  <tatertom> but then again, i didn't understand how sailing worked until i modded my canoe to do it, lol
01:40:36  <Sylf> o.O. canoe signals?
01:40:41  <tatertom> canoe sailing
01:40:49  <tatertom> an unrelated example
01:40:52  <BiG_MeEcH> unrelated to OTTD xD
01:40:58  <tatertom> yep, i do that
01:41:10  <BiG_MeEcH> He gets it by building or watching, not looking at a static picture.
01:41:14  <tatertom> just smack me and remind me what we're talking bout, k?
01:41:21  * BiG_MeEcH slaps tatertom around a bit with a large fishbot
01:41:44  <tatertom> well, i do gain from the static pic, but i won't feel i know it until i build it without cheat-sheeting
01:41:56  <Sylf> stuff in action, eh?  that's what our psg archives are for
01:42:02  <tatertom> oh yeah
01:42:03  <tatertom> about that
01:42:21  <tatertom> i tried to dl and run em, but every dang one is 'newer version'
01:42:29  <Sylf> there are some delicious games
01:42:30  <tatertom> and i can't find anything newer'n what i got
01:42:43  <tatertom> i really wanna check out the brainmelters or whatever
01:42:43  <BiG_MeEcH> you would have to get the exact trunk to play it
01:42:57  <Sylf> make sure you have at least tge version that's used here
01:43:01  <tatertom> so whatever nightly the guy had? can't be later either?
01:43:02  <Sylf> !version
01:43:02  <PublicServer> Sylf: Autopilot AP+ 4.0 Beta (r99+.422ef4e8cbe1+)
01:43:09  <BiG_MeEcH> xD
01:43:10  <Sylf> !dl
01:43:10  <PublicServer> Sylf: !dl autostart|autottd|lin|lin64|osx|ottdau|source|win32|win64|win9x
01:43:10  <PublicServer> Sylf: http://www.openttd.org/en/download-trunk/r25734
01:43:25  <Sylf> there.  nightly rev 25734
01:43:27  <tatertom> what is all this biz
01:43:30  <tatertom> latest?
01:43:41  <Sylf> not today's nightly
01:44:05  <tatertom> so, as long as i have a same or later build, i should be fine, though, right?
01:44:16  <Sylf> but we don't use the stable version on this server
01:44:18  <tatertom> also, on linux/ubuntu 12.04, if that makes diff
01:44:49  <Sylf> yup, any version newer is fine, regardless of OS
01:45:10  <tatertom> ok, stop updating guys compiling sux lol
01:45:40  <Sylf> :p
01:45:48  <Sylf> go precompiled
01:46:02  <tatertom> ?
01:46:13  <Sylf> ! dl lin
01:46:13  <PublicServer> Sylf: http://binaries.openttd.org/nightlies/trunk/r25734/openttd-trunk-r25734-linux-generic-i686.tar.xz
01:46:14  <BiG_MeEcH> all I do is untar
01:46:16  <tatertom> let me look before i seem more stupid
01:46:22  <Sylf> ! dl lin64
01:46:22  <PublicServer> Sylf: http://binaries.openttd.org/nightlies/trunk/r25734/openttd-trunk-r25734-linux-generic-amd64.tar.xz
01:46:24  <BiG_MeEcH> I use linux too
01:46:29  <tatertom> then copy to...
01:46:33  <BiG_MeEcH> just untar to any folder
01:46:35  <tatertom> ~/.openttd
01:46:49  <BiG_MeEcH> well no, you dont want to untar over your nightly or stable vertsion
01:46:57  <BiG_MeEcH> I have 2 on my desktop untared
01:46:58  <Sylf> just run the binary in the tar.xz package
01:47:03  <tatertom> ok, unwrap and double-tap
01:47:04  <tatertom> kk
01:47:36  <tatertom> wait, so can i then run this sid-by-side with stable?
01:47:38  <Sylf> that way, you can have unlimited number of versions
01:47:43  <Sylf> yeah
01:47:44  <BiG_MeEcH> yes you can
01:48:08  <tatertom> a few other random things floating around just made more sense
01:48:25  <Sylf> i founf out that version 1.2.X handles older psg archines better than 1.3.X
01:48:38  <Sylf> archives*
01:48:40  <tatertom> good to know
01:48:58  <tatertom> so, thes savegames are just like a snapshot, thought, right?
01:49:04  <tatertom> or more like script of what happened
01:49:08  <tatertom> that will "play"
01:49:19  <BiG_MeEcH> savegames are at the ' final ' stage
01:49:22  <tatertom> in other words, do i get to see the process, or is it al just already there
01:49:24  <tatertom> ok
01:49:29  <tatertom> they are "completed"
01:49:34  <BiG_MeEcH> yes
01:49:39  <tatertom> coolcool
01:49:58  <tatertom> i dl'd some rando ones earlier, but do you guys have any suggestions?
01:50:21  <BiG_MeEcH> there is a hall of fame
01:50:43  <BiG_MeEcH> !archive
01:50:43  <PublicServer> BiG_MeEcH: http://www.openttdcoop.ORG/wiki/PublicServer:Archive | http://www.openttdcoop.org/wiki/ProZone:Archive | http://www.openttdcoop.org/wiki/MemberZone:Archive
01:50:58  <Sylf> psg 121, 180...
01:51:01  <tatertom> on it... may be a while before i check in
01:51:06  <BiG_MeEcH> http://wiki.openttdcoop.org/PublicServer:Archive_-_Hall_of_Fame
01:51:11  <Sylf> 201 is cool too
01:51:30  <Sylf> 196 is special to me
01:52:19  <Sylf> the games mentioned in V's latest rumble are mostly good
01:52:30  <BiG_MeEcH> Whichever one I called v453000 bitch is special to me :)
01:52:30  <BiG_MeEcH> lol
01:53:28  <Sylf> http://blog.openttdcoop.org/2013/09/04/my-openttd-story/
01:53:56  <BiG_MeEcH> :D
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01:58:52  <tatertom> hmm missing newGRF in game dl'er won't get
01:59:28  <Sylf> for stolen trees...,
01:59:57  <Sylf> i dont have the link right now
02:00:01  <tatertom> i've ran into that before, but don't think that's it, ther'es like 3 or 4
02:00:11  <tatertom> i think i need ya'lls grf pack
02:00:12  <Webster> Read the Quickstart - #openttdcoop Wiki - http://wiki.openttdcoop.org/Quickstart (again, try !grf)
02:00:14  <tatertom> but where do i put it
02:00:25  <Sylf> make sre you have
02:00:31  <Sylf> !grf
02:00:31  <PublicServer> Sylf: http://www.openttdcoop.org/wiki/GRF
02:00:33  <BiG_MeEcH> !grf
02:00:33  <PublicServer> BiG_MeEcH: http://www.openttdcoop.org/wiki/GRF
02:00:37  <BiG_MeEcH> xD
02:01:13  <Sylf> we should issue an updated pack with stolen trees
02:01:28  <tatertom> nm, i RTFM'd
02:01:31  <BiG_MeEcH> LMAO, did you see the drama with V and stolen tree's ?
02:01:57  <tatertom> i would like to hear about this? the fact that it's named stolen trees implies something funny is up
02:02:03  <Sylf> which iteration? :p
02:02:45  <BiG_MeEcH> Sometimes a name is just a name :D
02:27:30  <tatertom> so these stations that have all teh tiles near them where cargo is piling up, is that from coop's newgrf's or is that just what happens when you move that much product?
02:27:31  <Webster> Read the Quickstart - #openttdcoop Wiki - http://wiki.openttdcoop.org/Quickstart (again, try !grf)
02:27:45  <tatertom> i got 'er running, thx
02:28:20  <tatertom> but seriously those tiles are cool, and i havent' seen em before
02:37:06  <BiG_MeEcH> They're extra station GRF's
02:37:19  <BiG_MeEcH> They act like a station but just dont have a track peice
02:37:32  <BiG_MeEcH> They're useful for small station walk
02:37:39  <BiG_MeEcH> or eyecandy
02:39:46  <tatertom> holy cargo flow legend!
02:40:32  <BiG_MeEcH> Theres a few of those
02:40:42  <tatertom> i'm like a friggin kid in a candy store over here
02:41:54  <BiG_MeEcH> good
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02:42:00  <BiG_MeEcH> You havent seen the FIRS legend yet
02:42:44  <BiG_MeEcH> http://blog.openttdcoop.org/2012/01/27/firs-industry-and-cargo-chart/
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03:23:51  <tatertom> I meant the in-game spider overlay
03:24:03  <tatertom> i've seen firs games and chart
03:24:25  <tatertom> i've strayed away as of yet until i get better at nursing things into making more stuff
03:25:02  <tatertom> which, as I understand, is simply having trains come regularly, but not fully emptying a supply industry, right?
03:25:20  <tatertom> [primary industry}
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18:51:22  <BiG_MeEcH> yoooooo
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20:53:24  <tatertom> hi all
20:53:43  <Chris_Booth> hi tatertom
20:54:43  <tatertom> !help
20:54:43  <PublicServer> tatertom: http://www.openttdcoop.org/wiki/IRC_Commands
20:55:33  <tatertom> !password
20:55:33  <PublicServer> tatertom: vetoed
20:55:41  <Chris_Booth> @tell tatertom @quickstrat
20:55:57  <Chris_Booth> tatertom @@quickstrat
20:56:02  <Chris_Booth> tatertom @@quickstart
20:56:03  <Webster> Quickstart - #openttdcoop Wiki - http://wiki.openttdcoop.org/Quickstart
20:56:07  <tatertom> lol
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20:59:01  <PublicServer> *** Game still paused (number of players)
20:59:09  <PublicServer> *** Player has changed his/her name to tatertom
21:06:03  <PublicServer> *** Game still paused (number of players)
21:06:04  <PublicServer> *** Chris Booth joined the game
21:06:07  <PublicServer> <tatertom> hi chris
21:06:14  <PublicServer> <tatertom> do you live in FL?
21:06:24  <PublicServer> <Chris Booth> FL?
21:06:24  <PublicServer> <tatertom> /USA
21:06:36  <PublicServer> <Chris Booth> No I am from London UK
21:06:54  <PublicServer> <tatertom> There is a guy i went to high school right near me with same name
21:07:29  <PublicServer> <tatertom> he lives about a mile and a half from me right now, if you go by boat
21:07:35  <PublicServer> <Chris Booth> Oh really, well you can tell them you found someone with their name
21:07:43  <PublicServer> <tatertom> i did last night lol
21:07:57  <PublicServer> <tatertom> he said you better have your sword ready
21:07:59  <PublicServer> <tatertom> there can be only one
21:08:14  <PublicServer> <Chris Booth> He better have a plane ticket and his sword ready
21:08:16  <PublicServer> <tatertom> i almost pooped a little in my britches because i thought you were him
21:08:43  <PublicServer> <Chris Booth> Unless he is a 23 year old drunk from the UK he is not me
21:08:49  <PublicServer> <tatertom> he's really into intricate and organic-ey games like this
21:09:11  <PublicServer> <tatertom> well, he's been there, the man CAN drink - trust me, but he's got around 10 years on ya
21:09:29  <PublicServer> <Chris Booth> you should tell him to joi
21:09:35  <PublicServer> <Chris Booth> joi
21:09:42  <PublicServer> <tatertom> i asked if he were you
21:09:44  <PublicServer> <Chris Booth> my n key is fucked
21:09:46  <PublicServer> <tatertom> and all
21:09:56  <PublicServer> <tatertom> and he knows the game
21:09:58  <PublicServer> <tatertom> but wont play it now
21:10:20  <PublicServer> <tatertom> like i said, he likes gam,es LIKE this, but he's probably got like 7 of them going right now
21:10:26  <PublicServer> <Chris Booth> is it to old school for him?
21:10:38  <PublicServer> <tatertom> his woman complains enough about how he spends his time
21:10:44  <PublicServer> <tatertom> not at all
21:10:50  <PublicServer> <tatertom> he still plays text-only rpgs man
21:10:56  <PublicServer> <Chris Booth> Women are a pain
21:11:02  <PublicServer> <tatertom> has written a few
21:11:12  <PublicServer> <Chris Booth> Oh he is a developer too
21:11:15  <PublicServer> <Chris Booth> now that is cool
21:11:21  <PublicServer> <Chris Booth> and spooky
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21:11:56  <PublicServer> <tatertom> when i saw the name, it was a little surprising, but then it was like, DUH! This is right up his alley
21:12:38  <PublicServer> <tatertom> and the last time we discovered the other was playing the same game unbeknownst to the other, it was hexen, i think
21:13:14  <PublicServer> <Chris Booth> Ah what a small world it is
21:13:33  <PublicServer> <tatertom> since i know you were the one last welcome-server map that had the niftyest shizz goin on, do you think you can get how that works into my thick skull?
21:13:59  <PublicServer> <tatertom> If your middle name is Richard, I would be a litle freaked
21:14:13  <PublicServer> <Chris Booth> No my middle name is not richard
21:14:25  <PublicServer> <Chris Booth> and it was a simple solution to a problem that didn't exist
21:14:51  <PublicServer> <Chris Booth> it would fill the large dummy trains, which contained excatly 2 small ML trains worth of cargo
21:15:17  <PublicServer> <Chris Booth> once full it would block the not gate at the end of the station, thus allowing the ML trains to enter the station
21:15:31  <PublicServer> <Chris Booth> they would then fill with the cargo in the dummy train and head to the drop
21:15:38  <PublicServer> <tatertom> all the timing and balancing and some of the prios are still a little lost on me
21:15:54  <PublicServer> <tatertom> i think i have gotten on to prios
21:15:56  <PublicServer> <Chris Booth> now all trains on the ML only had the order to head back to the entrance of the main drop
21:16:34  <PublicServer> <Chris Booth> so now you know the concept behind the idea you just need to know how to 'program' it in openttd
21:16:44  <PublicServer> <tatertom> i think my whole issue is some sort of mental block on the concept of logic gates themselves
21:17:26  <PublicServer> <Chris Booth> The not gate is an easy one
21:17:37  <PublicServer> <tatertom> its like i can look at a pic of one (even in openttd) and work out how it happens,
21:17:39  <PublicServer> <Chris Booth> it just turn red into green, or green into red
21:17:45  <PublicServer> <tatertom> then i look away and lose it
21:18:34  <PublicServer> <Chris Booth> :(
21:18:40  <PublicServer> <Chris Booth> that used to work
21:18:42  <PublicServer> <tatertom> do i need to join or somethin
21:18:46  <PublicServer> *** Chris Booth has joined spectators
21:18:52  <PublicServer> <Chris Booth> no only if you want to play
21:19:06  <PublicServer> <tatertom> well, i do, but i'm brand-noob to coop
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21:19:44  <PublicServer> <tatertom> and i don't feel i have the skill level to be touching others' working systems ;)
21:20:11  <PublicServer> <Chris Booth> ah then it might be best to watch for a while, but the longer you look the more you get scared
21:20:21  <PublicServer> <Chris Booth> sometimes it is best to dive in head first
21:20:33  <PublicServer> <tatertom> but am here for learning - i picked up a little last night by looking around, and practiced on random pubs
21:20:55  <PublicServer> <Chris Booth> have you seen the wiki/blog here
21:20:59  <PublicServer> <tatertom> this is more about the system than making money or making people happy right
21:21:01  <PublicServer> <tatertom> oh yes
21:21:11  <PublicServer> <tatertom> been my toilet readin' for a few weeks
21:21:17  <PublicServer> <Chris Booth> this is 100% about the system
21:21:28  <PublicServer> <Chris Booth> as long as we don't go bankrupt we don't car
21:21:30  <PublicServer> <Chris Booth> care
21:21:40  <PublicServer> <tatertom> and i've been using my knowledge elsewhere in the game
21:21:50  <PublicServer> <tatertom> but this is my first login to coop public server
21:22:00  <PublicServer> <tatertom> i've seen a few savegames
21:22:27  <PublicServer> <Chris Booth> there are some nice saves in there
21:22:43  <PublicServer> <tatertom> i'm sure i'll jump back in some more later
21:23:18  <PublicServer> <tatertom> how do we make it go?
21:23:45  <PublicServer> *** Chris Booth has left the game (leaving)
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21:38:06  <tatertom> may/can I unpause?
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