Log for on 18th May 2010:
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00:19:03  *** KenjiE20 has quit IRC
00:20:38  <Tycoon> *** Game unpaused (number of players)
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00:51:07  <Tycoon> *** Player joined the game
00:51:07  <Webster> Player, please change your in game nick
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02:10:32  <Razaekel> !players
02:10:34  <Tycoon> Razaekel: Client 11 (Red) is Razaekel, in company 1 (coop)
02:12:08  <Tycoon> *** Razaekel has left the game (connection lost)
02:12:08  <Tycoon> *** Game paused (number of players)
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16:32:39  <Tycoon> *** fonsinchen joined the game
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17:04:12  *** NukeBuster has joined
17:05:10  <NukeBuster> !players
17:05:13  <Tycoon> NukeBuster: There are currently no clients connected to the server
17:05:14  <NukeBuster> !info
17:05:14  <Tycoon> NukeBuster: #:1(Red) Company Name: 'coop'  Year Founded: 1919  Money: 4342165  Loan: 0  Value: 7813959  (T:83, R:24, P:0, S:0) unprotected
17:05:14  <Tycoon> NukeBuster: #:3(Pink) Company Name: 'Peter Transport'  Year Founded: 1931  Money: 6109446  Loan: 0  Value: 8591471  (T:12, R:10, P:0, S:0) unprotected
17:05:14  <Tycoon> NukeBuster: #:9(Dark Blue) Company Name: 'Orléans Transport'  Year Founded: 1951  Money: 15020549  Loan: 0  Value: 16491067  (T:58, R:300, P:0, S:0) unprotected
18:45:00  <Razaekel> nice going nuke
18:45:06  <Razaekel> you managed to get more money than coop
18:49:31  <Tycoon> *** Game unpaused (number of players)
18:49:31  <Tycoon> *** Razaekel joined the game
19:00:16  <Razaekel> dammit, this rubber farm is annoying
19:00:21  <Razaekel> it keeps shrinking >.<
19:01:25  <Razaekel> something is screwed up with it
19:01:38  <Razaekel> on average, it should be increasing
19:02:40  <Tycoon> *** vok11 joined the game
19:09:58  <Tycoon> *** vok11 has started a new company (#2)
20:20:23  <NukeBuster> !players
20:20:26  <Tycoon> NukeBuster: Client 21 (Red) is Razaekel, in company 1 (coop)
20:20:26  <Tycoon> NukeBuster: Client 23 (Orange) is vok11, in company 2 (vok11 Transport)
20:20:29  <NukeBuster> !info
20:20:29  <Tycoon> NukeBuster: #:1(Red) Company Name: 'coop'  Year Founded: 1919  Money: 12039249  Loan: 0  Value: 13624461  (T:85, R:24, P:0, S:0) unprotected
20:20:29  <Tycoon> NukeBuster: #:2(Orange) Company Name: 'vok11 Transport'  Year Founded: 2007  Money: 88291  Loan: 500000  Value: 1  (T:1, R:10, P:0, S:0) unprotected
20:20:29  <Tycoon> NukeBuster: #:3(Pink) Company Name: 'Peter Transport'  Year Founded: 1931  Money: 9912516  Loan: 0  Value: 10725971  (T:12, R:10, P:0, S:0) unprotected
20:20:29  <Tycoon> NukeBuster: #:9(Dark Blue) Company Name: 'Orléans Transport'  Year Founded: 1951  Money: 18401822  Loan: 0  Value: 19415975  (T:58, R:300, P:0, S:0) unprotected
20:21:13  <Tycoon> *** NukeBuster joined the game
20:40:14  <Tycoon> <Razaekel> nice company, nuke
20:40:48  <Tycoon> <NukeBuster> Thanks  :)
20:45:28  <Tycoon> <Razaekel> you should look at upgrading your wagons, nuke
20:45:53  <NukeBuster> just spotted the southern area trains
20:46:05  <Tycoon> <Razaekel> pax wagons can now do 160 km/h
20:46:07  <NukeBuster> got them in a company merger, never looked at it much though
20:46:42  <NukeBuster> Was already working on grouping the trains, so I could replace them by type
20:47:19  <Tycoon> <Razaekel> man, i want some bloody monorail
20:47:32  <NukeBuster> I have monorail :P (street cars)
20:47:39  <Tycoon> <Razaekel> er
20:47:41  <Tycoon> <Razaekel> maglev
20:47:43  <Tycoon> <Razaekel> >.>
20:49:17  <Tycoon> <Razaekel> let me know before you start spending large amounts of money
20:50:09  <NukeBuster> How can I place all trains with shared orders in a group
20:50:16  <NukeBuster> i'm sure i have done it before..
20:50:29  <Tycoon> <Razaekel> put one of the trains in the group
20:50:32  <Tycoon> <Razaekel> then at the bottom
20:50:46  <Tycoon> <Razaekel> manage list -> add shared vehicles
20:50:50  <NukeBuster> thank you :)
20:53:02  <Razaekel> !players
20:53:05  <Tycoon> Razaekel: Client 21 (Red) is Razaekel, in company 1 (coop)
20:53:05  <Tycoon> Razaekel: Client 23 (Orange) is vok11, in company 2 (vok11 Transport)
20:53:05  <Tycoon> Razaekel: Client 25 (Dark Blue) is NukeBuster, in company 9 (Orléans Transport)
20:59:43  <Razaekel> wait
20:59:50  <Razaekel> is maglev even enabled in this game?
21:08:13  <NukeBuster> what engine property detirmines climbing ability?
21:08:24  <NukeBuster> i don't know.
21:09:03  <NukeBuster> It might be beyond 2200 ;)
21:09:28  <planetmaker> NukeBuster: the tractive effort and the power both define that
21:10:15  <NukeBuster> so high traction with low power means slow climb?
21:10:27  <NukeBuster> slow but steady?
21:10:39  <Tycoon> <Razaekel> yea
21:11:09  <Tycoon> <Razaekel> use something like the Class 9E for climbing
21:11:21  <NukeBuster> Ah, was just going to ask about that train :)
21:11:23  <Tycoon> <Razaekel> tractive effort is most important
21:11:25  <Tycoon> <Razaekel> power is second
21:11:49  <Tycoon> <Razaekel> or the class 20E
21:11:55  <Tycoon> <Razaekel> that thing is overkill
21:12:11  <Hirundo> At or near top speed, power is almost always the limiting factor
21:12:28  <Tycoon> <Razaekel> yea, for acceleration
21:12:33  <Hirundo> also for hills
21:12:36  <Tycoon> <Razaekel> but in terms of climbing ability?
21:13:08  <Hirundo> Force = min(TE, Power/speed)
21:14:29  <Tycoon> <Razaekel> by that logic, the Force for the 9E is aa
21:14:35  <Tycoon> <Razaekel> is 55
21:14:35  <Hirundo> Given a typical engine with 3000 kW and 200 kN, the point of indifference is at 15 m/s (54 km/h)
21:15:00  <Tycoon> <Razaekel> oh
21:15:11  <Tycoon> <Razaekel> power divided by actual speed, not max speed?
21:15:32  <Hirundo> yes, actual speed
21:15:36  <NukeBuster> wow, nice that 9E is a mayor improvement
21:15:53  <Tycoon> <Razaekel> so, one should look for trains where the crossover is as high as possible?
21:16:07  <Tycoon> <Razaekel> or as low as possible?
21:16:51  <Hirundo> TE is important at low speeds, power at high speeds
21:17:11  <Tycoon> <Razaekel> hmm
21:17:31  <Tycoon> <Razaekel> the objective in selecting a mountain climbing train is how to get up as fast as possible
21:17:32  *** fonsinchen has joined
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21:17:33  <Hirundo> Given that trains (should) spend most of their time at max speed, power is the only thing that matters, as long as TE is *sufficient*
21:17:35  *** Coco-Banana-Man has quit IRC
21:18:04  <Tycoon> <Razaekel> so we just need to select a train with the biggest power?
21:18:11  <fonsinchen> 'ello
21:18:16  <Tycoon> <Razaekel> yo fons
21:18:18  <NukeBuster> how do we know how much TE is needed?
21:18:28  <fonsinchen> any desyncs lately?
21:18:30  <Tycoon> <Razaekel> looks like you squashed the desyncs pretty well
21:18:32  <Tycoon> <Razaekel> nope
21:18:35  <NukeBuster> none with me :)
21:18:36  <fonsinchen> :)
21:18:45  <Razaekel> hmm
21:18:53  <Razaekel> been about 3 hours since i started today
21:18:56  <Razaekel> none so far
21:19:09  <Hirundo> TE (kN) * max speed (m/s) should be significantly higher than Power (kW)
21:19:32  <Tycoon> *** fonsinchen joined the game
21:19:52  <Hirundo> The greater the difference, the better the acceleration at lower speeds, though this advantage diminishes fairly quickly
21:20:36  <Tycoon> <Razaekel> so basically, (TE*max speed)/ Power, select the train with the highest result?
21:22:05  <NukeBuster> so weight of wagons is included in TE?
21:22:07  <Tycoon> <Razaekel> by that logic, the FCX 2000 is the best
21:22:15  <Hirundo> No, you can't really boil this down to one calculation
21:22:23  <Tycoon> <Razaekel> darn
21:22:59  <Tycoon> <Razaekel> well, might be able to, but it'd be a bit of a nasty one
21:23:13  <Tycoon> <Razaekel> since it'd need max power of all possible trains
21:23:39  <Tycoon> <Razaekel> meh
21:23:41  <Hirundo> <- see the green curve
21:23:43  <Tycoon> <Razaekel> the 9E is nice
21:24:34  <Hirundo> It shows TE as function of speed
21:24:38  <Tycoon> <Razaekel> so TE is the force needed to maintain that speed?
21:24:57  <Tycoon> <Razaekel> er
21:25:02  <Hirundo> The green line shows the TE that is available at that speed
21:25:27  <Hirundo> the red/orange lines show the TE that is required at that speed to maintain that given speed
21:25:51  <Tycoon> <Razaekel> ah
21:26:00  <Hirundo> Increasing power moves the curved part of the green line upwards, increasing max TE the horizontal part
21:26:03  <Tycoon> <Razaekel> so for level ground, TE isn't really necessary
21:26:18  <Tycoon> *** fonsinchen has joined company #1
21:26:30  <Tycoon> <Razaekel> since you dont need much TE to maintain a given speed
21:27:10  <Hirundo> Hmm... let's do a quick Physics 101 here :)
21:27:20  <Razaekel> >.>
21:27:24  <Razaekel> yes, teacher
21:27:27  <Hirundo> Power can be expressed as Force times Speed
21:27:28  <NukeBuster> Hmm, I need a small climber for PAX, so it'll need to be fast but able to climb... what ratio should i look for, reasonable TE, high power?
21:27:47  <Razaekel> i just picked the biggest for both :-P
21:27:58  <Hirundo> In TTD, we assume that power is not dependent on speed, that is, the engine delivers max power constantly
21:28:12  <Razaekel> kk
21:28:22  <Hirundo> Thus when speed is low, force is high and vice versa
21:28:32  <Razaekel> ie, high acceleration
21:28:37  <Hirundo> You can see this in the graph as the green curved line
21:28:41  <Razaekel> and as speed increases, acceleration drops off
21:28:47  <Hirundo> Exactly
21:28:59  <Tycoon> *** fonsinchen has joined spectators
21:29:04  <Razaekel> which is why it takes a while for trains to get those last couple mph
21:29:08  <Razaekel> ok
21:29:24  <Hirundo> Problem is that the wheels can only transmit a certain amount of force before they start slipping
21:29:36  <Razaekel> and that's the TE?
21:29:41  <Tycoon> *** vok11 has left the game (desync error)
21:29:43  <Tycoon> *** NukeBuster has left the game (desync error)
21:29:43  <Tycoon> *** fonsinchen has left the game (desync error)
21:29:43  <Tycoon> *** Razaekel has left the game (desync error)
21:29:43  <Tycoon> *** Game paused (number of players)
21:29:45  <Razaekel> whoa
21:29:47  <Hirundo> That maximum force is the max TE listed in the game
21:29:47  <Razaekel> there it went
21:29:49  <NukeBuster> NOOOO :(
21:29:53  <Hirundo> ouch
21:29:54  <planetmaker> :-(
21:30:01  <Tycoon> *** Game unpaused (number of players)
21:30:03  <Razaekel> and that determines the maximum acceleration as well
21:30:04  <Razaekel> ok
21:30:04  <Tycoon> *** NukeBuster joined the game
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21:30:27  <NukeBuster> lol, some people have a ping on desync :P
21:30:54  <Razaekel> yea, pm does
21:31:23  <fonsinchen> ouch
21:31:28  <fonsinchen> there was a desync
21:31:33  <Razaekel> so, for a mountain climber, high TE is good since that means you can lug more weight with the same power?
21:31:40  <NukeBuster> just as you joined spectator
21:31:43  <Razaekel> yea, took several hours to get there
21:31:49  <NukeBuster> but I don't need much weight
21:32:01  <Razaekel> your trains are 7 tiles long
21:32:02  <fonsinchen> !rcon set desync_debug 3
21:32:02  <Tycoon> fonsinchen: 'desync_debug' is an unknown setting.
21:32:11  <Razaekel> at least theyre not lugging copper ore
21:32:18  <NukeBuster> not the one i want to build now...
21:32:19  <Razaekel> that stuff is heavy
21:32:21  <NukeBuster> small express climber
21:32:24  <fonsinchen> !rcon set debug_desync 3
21:32:24  <Tycoon> fonsinchen: 'debug_desync' is an unknown setting.
21:32:26  <Razaekel> for where?
21:32:30  <fonsinchen> !rcon help
21:32:30  <Tycoon> fonsinchen: ---- OpenTTD Console Help ----
21:32:30  <Tycoon> fonsinchen: - commands: [command to list all commands: list_cmds]
21:32:30  <Tycoon> fonsinchen: call commands with '<command> <arg2> <arg3>...'
21:32:30  <Tycoon> fonsinchen: - to assign strings, or use them as arguments, enclose it within quotes
21:32:30  <Tycoon> fonsinchen: like this: '<command> "string argument with spaces"'
21:32:30  <Tycoon> fonsinchen: you have 3 more messages
21:32:40  <fonsinchen> !rcon debug_level desync 3
21:32:40  <Tycoon> fonsinchen: - Get/set the default debugging level for the game. Usage: 'debug_level [<level>]'
21:32:40  <Tycoon> fonsinchen: - Level can be any combination of names, levels. Eg 'net=5 ms=4'. Remember to enclose it in "'s
21:32:44  <NukeBuster> in a putthole like metz
21:32:49  <fonsinchen> !rcon debug_level desync=3
21:32:53  <Razaekel> no
21:32:55  <fonsinchen> !rcon debug_level
21:32:55  <Tycoon> fonsinchen: Current debug-level: 'ai=0, driver=0, grf=0, map=0, misc=0, net=0, sprite=0, oldloader=0, npf=0, yapf=0, freetype=0, sl=0, gamelog=0, desync=3, console=0'
21:33:06  <Razaekel> ok
21:33:29  <Tycoon> *** fonsinchen joined the game
21:33:37  <Tycoon> *** fonsinchen has joined company #1
21:34:29  <Tycoon> *** fonsinchen has joined spectators
21:35:32  <fonsinchen> was that the first desync today?
21:35:38  <Razaekel> yea
21:35:47  <Tycoon> <fonsinchen> brrr
21:35:52  <Razaekel> ?
21:36:16  <fonsinchen> It means they occur rarely and are thus harder to trigger
21:36:31  <fonsinchen> did anyone do anything around the time it happened?
21:36:36  <NukeBuster> well, coincidently you were checking out as spectator
21:36:40  <Tycoon> <Razaekel> i wasn't
21:36:46  <Tycoon> <Razaekel> that was 41 seconds earlier
21:36:52  <Tycoon> <Razaekel> and he did it again, nothing happened
21:36:52  <fonsinchen> I noticed that one ... I mean, anyone else.
21:36:54  <NukeBuster> fonsinchen did so to
21:36:56  <NukeBuster> oh
21:37:06  <NukeBuster> hmm, i just started autoreplacing...
21:37:09  <Razaekel> !players
21:37:11  <Tycoon> Razaekel: Client 29 (Dark Blue) is NukeBuster, in company 9 (Orléans Transport)
21:37:11  <Tycoon> Razaekel: Client 31 (Red) is Razaekel, in company 1 (coop)
21:37:11  <Tycoon> Razaekel: Client 33 is fonsinchen, a spectator
21:37:16  <NukeBuster> but that was going on for some time...
21:37:50  <Tycoon> <Razaekel> we'll probably have to keep the debug on and keep playing
21:37:56  <Tycoon> *** fonsinchen has joined company #1
21:38:23  <NukeBuster> Started a test track to select the best climber :)
21:38:28  <fonsinchen> It would be nice if everyone could switch on desync debug and if a desync happens send me the debug saves
21:38:30  <Tycoon> <Razaekel> where?
21:38:40  <NukeBuster> vichy south, i'll put up a sign
21:38:42  <Razaekel> and how do we do that?
21:38:57  <NukeBuster> can we link in the chat to signs already?
21:39:07  <fonsinchen> you open a console with "^" or similar and type "debug_level desync=3"
21:39:11  <Tycoon> <Razaekel> no
21:39:44  <NukeBuster> check the signs list you'll see it
21:39:54  <fonsinchen> then it'll create lots of saves called "dmp_cmd*.sav" in your autosave folder
21:40:02  <fonsinchen> those are the ones I'm interested in.
21:40:16  <Tycoon> <Razaekel> done
21:40:26  <Tycoon> *** fonsinchen has joined spectators
21:40:26  <Tycoon> <Razaekel> does it do that on desync, or continuously?
21:40:35  <fonsinchen> continuously
21:40:40  <Tycoon> <Razaekel> hoo boy
21:40:42  <fonsinchen> you can delete the older ones though
21:41:06  <Razaekel> nothing in the folder yet
21:41:16  <fonsinchen> it saves every minute
21:41:25  <NukeBuster> hmm do you need the qoutes
21:41:28  <fonsinchen> you can check the setting by typing "debug_level"
21:41:34  <Tycoon> <Razaekel> no
21:41:34  <fonsinchen> !rcon debug_level
21:41:34  <Tycoon> fonsinchen: Current debug-level: 'ai=0, driver=0, grf=0, map=0, misc=0, net=0, sprite=0, oldloader=0, npf=0, yapf=0, freetype=0, sl=0, gamelog=0, desync=3, console=0'
21:41:39  <fonsinchen> should look like this
21:42:00  <fonsinchen> no, you don't need quotes
21:42:05  <Tycoon> <Razaekel> debug_level desync=3
21:42:07  <NukeBuster> hmm, typed the exact same thing and said command not found..
21:42:38  <NukeBuster> hmm, nou my mouse is lagging in game :(
21:43:01  <fonsinchen> type debug_level without arguments and check the output
21:43:18  <NukeBuster> desync = 3
21:43:23  <fonsinchen> good
21:50:23  <Tycoon> <Razaekel> time for dinner
21:50:26  <Tycoon> *** Razaekel has left the game (leaving)
21:53:13  <NukeBuster> lol, 2x WAG10 means instand 120kmh even when climbing 14 tile hill.
21:53:20  <NukeBuster> 4 wagons
21:53:27  <NukeBuster> sorry 8 18t wagons
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22:26:19  <Tycoon> *** NukeBuster has left the game (connection lost)
22:26:45  <fonsinchen> was that a desync?
22:26:49  <NukeBuster> hmm...
22:26:50  <NukeBuster> no
22:26:55  *** Raiscan2 has quit IRC
22:26:55  <NukeBuster> network connection lost :(
22:27:07  <Tycoon> *** NukeBuster joined the game
22:27:09  <fonsinchen> the message is ambigous
22:27:18  <fonsinchen> did you see a desync message in your game?
22:27:21  <NukeBuster> my pc doesn't like the debug_desync
22:27:21  <NukeBuster> no
22:27:56  <Tycoon> *** fonsinchen has joined spectators
22:30:36  <Tycoon> *** fonsinchen has joined company #1
22:30:58  <Tycoon> *** fonsinchen has joined spectators
22:36:48  <fonsinchen> no differences so far
22:39:27  <fonsinchen> good night
22:39:36  <NukeBuster> night
22:40:01  <Tycoon> *** fonsinchen has left the game (connection lost)
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23:03:35  <Tycoon> *** Razaekel joined the game
23:03:40  <Tycoon> <Razaekel> fugger
23:03:43  <Tycoon> <Razaekel> no maglev
23:03:49  <Tycoon> <Razaekel> ballsacks
23:07:02  *** Progman has quit IRC
23:10:18  <NukeBuster> Gehe, Vichy south worked out right :)
23:10:30  <NukeBuster> ehh, Vichy Transfer
23:10:49  <Tycoon> <Razaekel> no bloody maglev
23:10:51  <Tycoon> <Razaekel> barbaric!
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23:30:35  <Tycoon> <Razaekel> that X3EC tain is ridiculously powerful
23:31:13  <NukeBuster> i don't seem to have it yet
23:31:27  <Tycoon> <Razaekel> exclusive use
23:32:46  <NukeBuster> !info
23:32:46  <Tycoon> NukeBuster: #:1(Red) Company Name: 'coop'  Year Founded: 1919  Money: 21335714  Loan: 0  Value: 40231213  (T:84, R:24, P:0, S:0) unprotected
23:32:46  <Tycoon> NukeBuster: #:2(Orange) Company Name: 'vok11 Transport'  Year Founded: 2007  Money: 6350538  Loan: 500000  Value: 6295330  (T:3, R:24, P:0, S:0) unprotected
23:32:46  <Tycoon> NukeBuster: #:3(Pink) Company Name: 'Peter Transport'  Year Founded: 1931  Money: 19116916  Loan: 0  Value: 19234659  (T:12, R:10, P:0, S:0) unprotected
23:32:46  <Tycoon> NukeBuster: #:9(Dark Blue) Company Name: 'Orléans Transport'  Year Founded: 1951  Money: 20645772  Loan: 0  Value: 27987569  (T:59, R:300, P:0, S:0) unprotected
23:33:01  <NukeBuster> !players
23:33:03  <Tycoon> NukeBuster: Client 35 (Dark Blue) is NukeBuster, in company 9 (Orléans Transport)
23:33:03  <Tycoon> NukeBuster: Client 37 (Red) is Razaekel, in company 1 (coop)
23:34:28  <NukeBuster> I'm going to head for my bed.
23:34:30  <NukeBuster> Cya
23:35:08  <Tycoon> *** NukeBuster has left the game (leaving)
23:35:19  *** NukeBuster has quit IRC
23:39:05  *** snc has joined
23:50:59  *** OwenS has quit IRC

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