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Log for #openttdcoop.devzone on 25th May 2009:
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05:41:16  <Brot> [DevZone] OpenGFX - Revision 1: Fix: don't close my command window when compiling OpenGFX (planetmaker) - http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/opengfx/repository/revisions/1
05:50:17  <Brot> [DevZone] OpenGFX - Revision 2: Change: desktop.ini certainly is not needed (planetmaker) - http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/opengfx/repository/revisions/2
06:02:48  *** DJNekkid has quit IRC
06:16:11  *** DJNekkid has joined #openttdcoop.devzone
06:24:13  *** DJNekkid has quit IRC
06:35:16  <Brot> [DevZone] OpenGFX - Bug #83: forcing the folder name in the build script (planetmaker) - http://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/83
07:20:16  <Brot> [DevZone] OpenGFX - Revision 3: Fix #83: make OpenGFX compile independent of the directory name it resides ... (planetmaker) - http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/opengfx/repository/revisions/3
07:20:17  <Brot> [DevZone] OpenGFX - Bug #83 (Closed): forcing the folder name in the build script (planetmaker) - http://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/83#change-160
07:47:17  <Brot> [DevZone] OpenGFX - Bug #84: looking for sprite , found sprite  (planetmaker) - http://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/84
07:56:17  <Brot> [DevZone] OpenGFX - Feature #85: Improved an OS independent build script (planetmaker) - http://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/85
08:06:05  <Ammler> planetmaker: already has his fingers in the new repo ;-)
08:16:15  <planetmaker> :)
08:16:21  <planetmaker> moin Ammler :)
08:16:32  <planetmaker> yes, I wanted to be able to compile the stuff
08:16:51  <planetmaker> it gave an explicit name of the dir where the whole repo resides in. That's majorly bad
08:23:16  <Brot> [DevZone] #openttdcoop - Wiki edit: Welcome (#4) (planetmaker) - http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/16/wiki/Welcome?version=4
08:23:17  <Brot> [DevZone] #openttdcoop - Wiki edit: Getting_started_on_Win (#1) (planetmaker) - http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/16/wiki/Getting_started_on_Win?version=1
08:32:16  <Brot> [DevZone] #openttdcoop - Wiki edit: Welcome (#5) (Ammler) - http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/16/wiki/Welcome?version=5
08:33:20  <Ammler> but it looks like foobar did a awesome job with it.
08:35:18  <Brot> [DevZone] #openttdcoop - Wiki edit: Welcome (#6) (Ammler) - http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/16/wiki/Welcome?version=6
08:35:50  <planetmaker> well. Except the make script it's decently structured, yes :)
08:36:00  <planetmaker> and quite well maintainable.
08:36:40  <Ammler> didn't check it proper, jsut the first view :-)
08:37:54  <planetmaker> basically, you should also on suse now be able to run compile_win.bat
08:37:55  <planetmaker> :)
08:38:07  <planetmaker> just consider it a multi - platform script right now :)
08:38:26  <planetmaker> I don't get why people always add the .exe to the filename. It's just not needed...
08:47:34  <Ammler> :-)
08:47:56  <Ammler> it is the same, as you need "./" on linux
08:52:57  <planetmaker> hm? yes. but once you have it in the path you don't need either
08:53:16  <Brot> [DevZone] #openttdcoop - Wiki edit: Getting_started_on_Win (#2) (Ammler) - http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/16/wiki/Getting_started_on_Win?version=2
08:57:05  <Ammler> planetmaker: yep
09:26:16  <Brot> [DevZone] #openttdcoop - Wiki edit: Getting_started_on_Win (#3) (Ammler) - http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/16/wiki/Getting_started_on_Win?version=3
09:29:17  <Brot> [DevZone] OpenGFX - Bug #84 (Feedback): looking for sprite , found sprite  (foobar) - http://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/84#change-162
09:47:16  <Brot> [DevZone] OpenGFX - Feature #85: Improved an OS independent build script (foobar) - http://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/85#change-163
10:05:17  <Brot> [DevZone] OpenGFX - OpenGFX_Alpha4.0.zip (foobar) - http://dev.openttdcoop.org/attachments/download/82/OpenGFX_Alpha4.0.zip
10:08:17  <Brot> [DevZone] OpenGFX - OpenGFX_Alpha3.0.zip (foobar) - http://dev.openttdcoop.org/attachments/download/83/OpenGFX_Alpha3.0.zip
10:23:17  <Brot> [DevZone] OpenGFX - OpenGFX_Alpha2.0.zip (foobar) - http://dev.openttdcoop.org/attachments/download/84/OpenGFX_Alpha2.0.zip
10:29:16  <Brot> [DevZone] OpenGFX - OpenGFX_Alpha1.0.zip (foobar) - http://dev.openttdcoop.org/attachments/download/85/OpenGFX_Alpha1.0.zip
10:38:17  <Brot> [DevZone] Dutch Train Set - Revision 6: added ZHESM (DJ Nekkid) - http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/dutchtrainset/repository/revisions/6
10:41:22  *** XeryusTC is now known as Xeryus|bnc
10:44:17  <Brot> [DevZone] Dutch Train Set - dutchdj.grf (DJNekkid) - http://dev.openttdcoop.org/attachments/download/86/dutchdj.grf
10:47:05  *** Xeryus|bnc is now known as XeryusTC
10:52:18  *** FooBar_ has joined #openttdcoop.devzone
10:53:49  <FooBar_> Hi guys. First time here, so don't be too harsh :P
10:54:13  <FooBar_> Even IRC is a world premiere for me to be honest...
10:55:16  <FooBar_> anyways, I'd like to know a little something about HG before I start messing things up
10:57:31  <FooBar_> say I have a clone of a repo, but in the time that I'm working on some things, someone else has pushed some new commits. What commands do I need to execute in order to sync my local copy, but without destroying the edits I made?
10:58:02  <Ammler> welcome FooBar_ :-)
10:58:10  <planetmaker> hey, hello FooBar :)
10:58:17  <FooBar_> In Bazaar it's "bzr update", but the "hg help update" text worries me a bit...
10:58:34  <FooBar_> Hi Ammler, planetmaker
10:59:08  <planetmaker> well. you need to merge your changes and the one which were made by the other person
10:59:11  <planetmaker> e.g. hg merge
10:59:27  <planetmaker> I guess they will conflict, though, as I basically edited every single line :)
10:59:35  <FooBar_> ah, that makes sense
10:59:52  <FooBar_> yeah, I noticed :P
10:59:52  <planetmaker> e.g. hg pull -u
10:59:55  <planetmaker> hg merge
11:00:04  <Ammler> bascially, if you have the chance to push, you should push as soon as you made a commit
11:00:04  <planetmaker> and then you'll be told where things need manual attention
11:00:14  <planetmaker> and what Ammler sais :)
11:00:33  <planetmaker> once you manually resolved the conflicts, you do another hg commit
11:00:39  <planetmaker> and then better a push :)
11:01:10  <FooBar_> Alright. I think I just have to remember this and see what happens as soon it happens :)
11:01:27  <FooBar_> good thing I know that I shouldn't use hg update...
11:01:29  <Ammler> before you start to work, do hg push -u
11:01:35  <planetmaker> well. There's nothing really bad about a merge. It's what happens with distributed VCS. Also with bazaar
11:01:42  <Ammler> ah hg pull -u
11:01:45  <planetmaker> hg pull -u
11:02:27  <Ammler> then after you made changes, you could make another pull and up before commit
11:02:42  <planetmaker> well. if something changed, hg will tell you :)
11:02:54  <planetmaker> and refuse to commit, unless forced to
11:03:01  <Ammler> but then, you have already commited :-)
11:03:10  <planetmaker> ah, right. commit. not push
11:03:11  <planetmaker> yes
11:03:30  <Ammler> if you pull before commit, you could merge and don't need a seperate merge commit
11:03:33  <FooBar_> slow down a bit you two, I'm getting confused :P
11:03:37  <planetmaker> :) sorry
11:03:48  <planetmaker> basic procedure for me:
11:03:51  <planetmaker> hg pull -u
11:03:53  <planetmaker> edit something
11:03:57  <planetmaker> hg pull -u
11:04:03  <Ammler> planetmaker: maybe you can update the hg wiki
11:04:05  <planetmaker> hg commit
11:04:08  <Ammler> with a procedure?
11:04:14  <planetmaker> maybe hg merge, if needed
11:04:16  <planetmaker> hg push
11:04:19  <planetmaker> Ammler, yes, good idea
11:04:36  <Ammler> https://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/home/wiki/Mercurial
11:05:24  <planetmaker> FooBar_, the other thing, the build script: I'm building it on windows, too. So... if it works here, it should work for you, too
11:05:40  <FooBar_> Ammler, Fx thinks your certificate isn't valid for openttdcoop.org...
11:06:04  <planetmaker> yeah... I added a security exception :P
11:06:46  <Ammler> FooBar_: SSL?
11:06:58  <Ammler> it is written there :-)
11:07:01  <FooBar_> yeah, that one
11:07:05  <Ammler> the certificate is for www.ammler.ch
11:07:20  <Ammler> maybe I will move it to dev.openttdcoop.org
11:07:30  <Ammler> that is why I don't force you to ssl
11:08:26  <FooBar_> Removing the s in https did the trick nicely, as I didn't feel like making all kinds of settings :P
11:08:35  <Ammler> oh, he, I use https, but you didn't :-)
11:09:14  <Ammler> it is a bit annyoing from the new browsers.
11:09:17  <Brot> [DevZone] #openttdcoop - Wiki edit: Mercurial (#4) (Ammler) - http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/16/wiki/Mercurial?version=4
11:09:27  <Ammler> don't see, why they made that so ugly.
11:09:41  <FooBar_> anyways, thanks for the explanation on HG!
11:09:45  <Ammler> a plain warning would be way enouhg.
11:09:57  <FooBar_> Before I forget to thank you guys for that...
11:10:21  <planetmaker> no worries, FooBar_ - a pleasure :)
11:10:24  <FooBar_> Well, Fx makes it an error with no other way to go unless clicking lots of buttons ;)
11:10:55  <planetmaker> and if I indeed can talk you into installing MinGW and MSys - it'd be great. It's just a small collection of tools basically
11:11:20  <planetmaker> it doesn't eat permanently ressources as it's not running, just present, if needed.
11:11:37  <FooBar_> I think you already talked me into that, I just said that I'd remove it if it would annoy me :P
11:12:08  <FooBar_> If it only eats resources if it's doing something, then that's fine.
11:12:22  <planetmaker> yes. They work principally like grfcodec and renum
11:12:28  <FooBar_> By the way, why is there an underscore behind my nickname? I didn't set that...
11:12:29  <planetmaker> work, if asked. Otherwise do nothing
11:12:35  <planetmaker> yes, it is.
11:12:45  <planetmaker> err.
11:12:52  <FooBar_> ok, that's good to hear...
11:12:55  <planetmaker> probably Foobar is registered and you got re-named?
11:13:15  <Ammler>  /msg nickserv info Foobar
11:13:29  <Ammler> @wiki IRC
11:13:32  <Webster> IRC - #openttdcoop Wiki - http://www.openttdcoop.org/wiki/Special:Search?go=Go&search=IRC
11:13:39  <FooBar_> could be...
11:13:45  <planetmaker> it is...
11:13:52  <planetmaker> are you from quebeck?
11:13:59  <planetmaker> *quebec?
11:14:03  <planetmaker> I guess not...
11:14:16  <FooBar_> not really, unless the Netherlands is located in Canada now :P
11:14:19  <planetmaker> but you could ask for it being released. Not used in 3 years
11:14:36  <planetmaker> you can ask in #oftc
11:14:41  <planetmaker> I think
11:17:15  <FooBar_> nah, knowing that it's not me that caused the _ is sufficient...
11:17:44  <planetmaker> :)
11:18:01  <FooBar_> I also don't want to be the new guy that comes marching in and starts demanding all kinds of things :P
11:18:43  <planetmaker> :) well... but your name is well established within (o)ttd(p) land
11:18:49  <Ammler> or rename to foo_bar and keep it.
11:19:01  <planetmaker> and the nick was restered and last used on 27 June 2006.
11:19:06  <planetmaker> *registered
11:19:36  <Ammler> well, I don't think, they release a nick, which is in use.
11:19:44  <planetmaker> Ammler, but it isn't.
11:19:56  <planetmaker> one time register and never used?
11:20:05  <planetmaker> like for two minutes?
11:20:10  <Ammler> if it wouldn't foobar haven't been renamed
11:20:32  <planetmaker> no, you can protect your nick.
11:20:44  <Ammler> there is a foobar on the server right now
11:20:51  <Ammler> just not registered ;-)
11:21:07  <planetmaker> yeah. well... hm.
11:21:10  <Ammler> .  /ns status foobar
11:22:07  <planetmaker> hm... true
11:25:39  <FooBar_> well, I don't really care, not even if it likes to put like six underscores behind it :P
11:26:24  <Ammler> well, if it goes to serious usage, you need to, i.e. to become op here to change topic and such
11:26:56  <Ammler> @deop
11:26:56  *** Webster sets mode: -o Ammler
11:28:24  <Ammler> btw. I am now able to limit repo access to single projects if needed, so if we ever will have a person, which needs to be restricted, we can :-)
11:29:00  <FooBar_> Nah, I can change topic without being OP. The topic is said to be “Talk about things hosted and developed on http://dev.openttdcoop.org”, although I managed to change it to nicknames :P
11:29:58  <FooBar_> @Ammler, that's good to know
11:30:43  <FooBar_> Although I currently don't know who should need/want commit rights but can't be trusted with full access.
11:31:21  <FooBar_> In fact, I don't know who would want access in general. Development of OpenGFX has stalled quite a bit
11:31:47  <Ammler> Bilbo maybe?
11:31:58  <planetmaker> well. I'd give e.g. the person who did the font fixing the right to commit that for example. Then he could maybe be talked into fixing it a bit more.
11:32:11  <planetmaker> And it's then easier to get him correct mistakes in what he did :)
11:32:15  <planetmaker> if there are
11:32:39  <Ammler> that was bilbo?
11:32:58  <planetmaker> no idea. But I don't think
11:33:17  <FooBar_> yes, Bilbo updated the font a while ago
11:33:44  <Ammler> FooBar_: everyone can register at the DevZone and post tickets
11:33:49  <FooBar_> recently some other guy came along and did basically the same, so that's still a bit of an issue
11:34:12  <planetmaker> ah, ok. I might mix that up
11:34:29  <FooBar_> @Ammler: nice! I'll update the readme accordingly.
11:34:36  <Ammler> the other guy which coded a lot at beginning isn't around anymore, it seems?
11:35:45  <FooBar_> buttercup? Yes, so it seems indeed
11:36:11  <FooBar_> Last visited:  26 Feb 2009, 01:52
11:36:25  <Ammler> yeah.
11:36:42  <Ammler> oh, btw. you did a awesome job so far with opengfx ;-)
11:37:01  <FooBar_> thanks!
11:37:09  <FooBar_> someone has to do it, so it might as well be me :P
11:37:34  <FooBar_> As nobody else seemed willing to pick it up at the time...
11:38:02  <FooBar_> And now I'm somewhat stuck with it. Not that that's a bad thing though :)
11:38:21  <Ammler> I never coded something with pcx so far, just a bit Action0 and F
11:38:46  <FooBar_> @DevZone: is that since recently that anyone can register or was I just blind the other day?
11:39:04  <Ammler> you were indeed blind.
11:39:33  <FooBar_> thanks :)
11:39:38  <Ammler> :-D
11:40:19  <Ammler> oh, btw, a nice function which irc has
11:40:28  <Ammler> just type "A<tab>"
11:41:41  <FooBar_> that gives me "Ammler:", I wanted "DevZone" in this particular case. But thanks anyways, might be useful sometime :)
11:42:27  <FooBar_> now I've forgotten what I wanted to say...
11:42:38  <FooBar_> ah yes, pcx coding...
11:42:39  <Ammler> that is called highlighting, as I am not always here
11:42:53  <Ammler> but a highlight will blink a bit.
11:43:08  <FooBar_> Ah, is that wat causes messages in the other tab?
11:43:26  <Ammler> do you use photoshop?
11:43:32  <FooBar_> yes, I do
11:43:49  <Ammler> in chatzilla, possible
11:44:10  <Ammler> every client behaves a bit other.
11:44:24  <FooBar_> ah right, different clients. Still a bit msn-minded where everyone has the same...
11:44:34  <FooBar_> anyways, what about photohop?
11:44:38  <Ammler> my client shows highlight like new mail msg in status bar
11:45:02  <Ammler> just wondering, as I have GIMP
11:45:53  <Ammler> the only graphical change I made is the language flag from US -> UK in openttdw.grf
11:46:06  <FooBar_> shouldn't make much difference. You can use anything that can save pcx files basically
11:47:00  <Ammler> well, and I have to use the right palette.
11:47:13  <FooBar_> I happen to be in the position to be able to use Photoshop, but GIMP would do just fine as well. Both programs are way to enhanced for the job actually...
11:47:23  <Ammler> -p flag in codec
11:48:06  <FooBar_> If GIMP can open Photoshop palette files, I can add 'em to the repo if you like, or email them or something...
11:48:16  <Ammler> well, it looks andy also uses it, so...
11:49:02  <Ammler> or use the files section for
11:49:13  <FooBar_> yeah he does indeed. When on a Mac you're almost obliged to use Photoshop :P
11:49:34  <FooBar_> On Windows only if you can get it for free :P
11:49:40  <Ammler> :-)
11:49:59  <Ammler> for my needs, GIMP is more than enough.
11:50:07  <FooBar_> Oh, and don't think the wrong things, I do have a proper license, still free though :P
11:50:20  <Ammler> a bit usage of differen layers, don't need much more.
11:50:47  <FooBar_> If the university is willing to pay, I'm more than happy to use it...
11:51:10  <FooBar_> I actually never use layers when drawing for TTD...
11:51:12  <Ammler> yeah, that i a good marketing, they do it like drugs
11:51:48  <FooBar_> indeed
11:51:48  <Ammler> MS and Adobe give it for free to the students, and if they become buyers for a company, they stick to it.
11:52:36  <FooBar_> well, when I finish my studies, there's always these "license generators" if you know what I mean :P
11:53:49  <Ammler> you can do it quite well without them, today. openoffice, gimp, linux are your friends
11:54:48  <Ammler> he, we get to a talk you feared :P
12:01:02  <FooBar_> not really, I was just uploading the palette files :P
12:01:20  <FooBar_> added it to documents, as I would like to keep files for releases only: http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/opengfx/documents
12:01:32  <FooBar_> or https://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/opengfx/documents if you like
12:02:31  <FooBar_> I tried linux a while back when I busted my Windows installation, but it wasn't really for me.
12:03:08  <FooBar_> Ubuntu worked really nice, but there are too much windows-only things I'm attached to
12:03:17  <Brot> [DevZone] OpenGFX - TTDWinSafePalette.act (foobar) - http://dev.openttdcoop.org/attachments/download/88/TTDWinSafePalette.act
12:03:18  <Brot> [DevZone] OpenGFX - TTDWinSafePaletteWithCC.act (foobar) - http://dev.openttdcoop.org/attachments/download/89/TTDWinSafePaletteWithCC.act
12:03:19  <Brot> [DevZone] OpenGFX - TTDWinFullPalette.act (foobar) - http://dev.openttdcoop.org/attachments/download/87/TTDWinFullPalette.act
12:03:40  <FooBar_> yes, I know that, Brot, I placed 'em there myself :P
12:13:07  <Ammler> we watch every step, which happens on the Zone :P
12:13:27  <FooBar_> I see :)
12:14:00  <FooBar_> me adding all those old OpenGFX releases must have been quite amusing...
12:14:18  <Ammler> well :-)
12:14:42  <Ammler> I use the server for torrents, too.
12:14:59  <Ammler> so files < 350 MB don't bother me ;-)
12:17:03  <FooBar_> I'm about to install MinGW. Would you recon that it's interesting to install the Objective C Compiler if I ever want to compile OTTD myself? I did select the C++ compiler, but don't know what Objective C is all about...
12:18:20  <Ammler> I would use the openttd wiki then, maybe
12:18:37  <Ammler> djn did just install buildottd
12:18:58  <FooBar_> doesn't work on Vista...
12:19:03  <Ammler> planetmaker: is your howto also ready for openttd builds?
12:21:46  <Ammler> oh, indeed,
12:21:55  <Ammler> vista is "skip-os" btw.
12:22:12  <Ammler> xp -> win7
12:22:34  <Ammler> currently, it is a bad time to buy a pc
12:23:17  <FooBar_> well, it came with my notebook and to be honest I like it better than XP. It sometimes doesn't do what it should do, but you get attached to some features really...
12:23:31  <Ammler> :-)
12:23:43  <FooBar_> anyways, nevermind the objective c, seems unneccesary for ottd
12:24:19  <Ammler> you get serious answers from #openttd, if you want :-)
12:26:07  <FooBar_> about Vista or about MinGW?
12:27:06  <FooBar_> I think I have my MinGW answers here: http://wiki.openttd.org/Compiling_on_MinGW. And I'm not interested in Vista answers atm, then I never get MinGW installed today :lol:
12:27:07  <Webster> Title: Compiling on MinGW. - OpenTTD (at wiki.openttd.org)
12:27:46  <planetmaker> Ammler, my "howto" doesn't cover all pre-requisites for building OpenTTD
12:28:03  <planetmaker> you need some more dependencies, libraries for it in order to get a working binary
12:37:10  <FooBar_> well, i have mingw and msys installed now
12:38:57  <FooBar_> path variable is getting awefully full now :P
12:41:07  <FooBar_> hmmmz...no it doesn't
12:41:17  <FooBar_> although it should
12:42:32  <FooBar_> maybe some Vista issues not allowing the installer to do so...
12:58:28  <FooBar_> seems to be alright now with the RC of msys and me manually adding the path var...
13:01:53  <planetmaker> FooBar_, does e.g. "make" no do something sensible on your windows command prompt?
13:03:05  <FooBar_> make is not recognised as command on windows cmd. It does do something on msys
13:04:12  <FooBar_> maybe I have to add msys/bin to PATH as well?
13:09:03  <FooBar_> I think i'll just clone the 2cc set repo and see what that makefile does
13:10:11  <FooBar_> need to do a reboot, brb
13:10:24  *** FooBar_ has quit IRC
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13:24:17  <Brot> [DevZone] OpenGFX - Feature #85 (Assigned): Improved an OS independent build script (foobar) - http://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/85#change-164
13:38:43  <planetmaker> FooBar_, yes, add that path, too
13:39:16  <planetmaker> uh? You don't need a reboot for a path change. Just open a new command shell and you're fine...
13:39:31  <FooBar_> or not, the 2cc makefile worked from the msys terminal
13:39:51  <FooBar_> reboot was for something else. I decided that I wanted tortoiseHG in a different dir
13:40:12  <FooBar_> so I had to reinstall that, and it asked me to reboot, so I did :P
13:42:15  <FooBar_> on the other hand I might want to add msys to the PATH, as I coudn't do tab to complete a dir/filename and because msys gives me very loud beeps if I do something wrong. Scares the heck out of me :)
13:43:36  <Ammler> how did you add the private key?
13:45:01  <FooBar_> using pageant.exe thingy provided with tortoiseHG
13:45:46  <FooBar_> that's why I needed to reinstall tHG; Vista didn't allow pageant to remember the key inside the program files folder...
13:47:09  <FooBar_> although it doesn't seem to behave differently now... Oh well...
13:47:10  <Ammler> ok
13:47:25  <Ammler> that is the same as djn does it finally.
13:47:45  <Ammler> "theoretically, it should work without pageant"
13:48:07  <Ammler> FooBar_: what do you mean with keep?
13:48:15  <Ammler> remember*
13:48:44  <Ammler> maybe you like to try with parameter -i on mercurial.ini
13:48:50  <Ammler> -i <private_key>
13:48:55  <FooBar_> as soon as I exit and restart Pageant, I have to put the key back in...
13:49:51  <FooBar_> also I just tried without Pageant, gives me a "No supported authentication methods available" error in a popup and a "no suitable response from remote hg[command interrupted]" in command prompt
13:50:10  <Ammler> that is usal behavior isn't?
13:50:23  <Ammler> you might use a passphrase
13:50:49  <Ammler> yep
13:50:59  <Ammler> but -i <key> in mercurial ini?
13:51:00  <FooBar_> in fact I do use a passphrase
13:51:20  <Ammler> if you use passphrase, pageant is the way to do it.
13:51:35  <Ammler> I use different key pairs, some have, some don't
13:51:51  <Ammler> i.e. for server->server without
13:52:31  <FooBar_> so if I were to remove the passphrase, it shoud work without pageant?
13:57:04  <Ammler> no
13:57:15  <Ammler> but you could add it to mercurial ini
13:57:35  <Ammler> or maybe pageant can remember it
13:58:00  <FooBar_> I rather not have to start pageant every time, so adding to mercurial.ini might be useful
13:58:23  <FooBar_> where exactly do I put that then?
13:59:15  <FooBar_> there are a lot of sections in there...
14:00:12  <FooBar_> maybe to this here
14:00:17  <FooBar_> ; In order to push/pull over ssh you must specify a ssh tool
14:00:19  <FooBar_> ssh = "C:\dev\TortoiseHg\TortoisePlink.exe" -ssh -2
14:04:12  <Ammler> it is a ssh option
14:04:18  <Ammler> -ssh -2 -i ...
14:04:25  <Ammler> but it didn't work for djn
14:05:09  <Ammler> if it works for you, it might be worth to tell :-)
14:06:43  <FooBar_> i'll have a go at it...
14:08:32  <FooBar_> it does something else now "remote: Unable to use key file "foobar2.ppk" (unable to open file)"
14:08:50  <FooBar_> still not what we want, but something else nevertheless
14:10:44  <Ammler> FooBar_: try with full path
14:11:27  <FooBar_> yep, that does the trick.
14:11:52  <FooBar_> Note that I use a key file without a password set
14:11:54  <Ammler> hmm
14:12:04  <Ammler> so can you paste your line
14:12:16  <FooBar_> let me see what it does with a password
14:12:28  <FooBar_> ssh = "C:\dev\TortoiseHg\TortoisePlink.exe" -ssh -2 -i C:\dev\TortoiseHg\foobar2.ppk
14:13:45  <FooBar_> with password works as well; it popups a dialog asking for it, so I'll be using that for terms of safety and all...
14:14:47  <planetmaker> that's ok :) I also always enter my PW when I commit.
14:15:00  <planetmaker> (my key is also pw protected)
14:15:14  <Ammler> well, I use pageant
14:15:28  <Ammler> first command in my console is: ssh-add
14:15:39  <planetmaker> yes... I'll install it also one day :)
14:15:44  <planetmaker> and then I'll ask you :P
14:15:52  <Ammler> hmm
14:15:58  <Ammler> suse did that already ;-)
14:16:07  <Ammler> I am kinda sure, you have that already there, too.
14:16:23  <Ammler> run ssh-add
14:17:37  <planetmaker> I have it installed, yes
14:17:42  <planetmaker> just not in the ini
14:18:10  <planetmaker> does it work on all consoles, if started in one?
14:19:00  <planetmaker> it does.... :)
14:21:11  <Ammler> the ssh agent has nothing to do with hg
14:21:25  <Ammler> like pagent
14:22:20  <planetmaker> yes, I know
14:22:46  <planetmaker> I also didn't test with hg but with sshmz and sshps :)
14:22:58  <planetmaker> obvious local alias, I think :)
14:48:17  <Brot> [DevZone] 2cc train set - Feature #81: precompiler? (DJNekkid) - http://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/81#change-165
14:54:17  <Brot> [DevZone] 2cc train set - Feature #81: precompiler? (planetmaker) - http://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/81#change-166
15:11:21  <planetmaker> ^ do you have an opinion on that, Ammler?
15:11:31  <Ammler> yes
15:11:33  <Ammler> :-)
15:11:55  <Ammler> just pushed "update on that ticket :-)
15:15:18  <Brot> [DevZone] OpenGFX - Revision 4: [Bug #82] Fixed close button alignment (foobar) - http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/opengfx/repository/revisions/4
15:15:19  <Brot> [DevZone] OpenGFX - Bug #82 (Closed): close window button (foobar) - http://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/82#change-167
15:15:24  <Ammler> just ran make clean
15:15:37  <Ammler> but still have the sprites/nfo/??.nfo
15:16:17  <planetmaker> they are very old.
15:16:23  <planetmaker> and not generated automatically anymore
15:16:30  <Ammler> very old?
15:16:37  <planetmaker> they now have the same name as the directory
15:16:43  <Ammler> ah, ok
15:16:44  <planetmaker> e.g. delete them by hand
15:16:55  <planetmaker> subsequently it will work :)
15:17:19  <Ammler> hg update null
15:17:35  <Ammler> delete everything except .hg
15:17:36  <planetmaker> once I have the directory name it's easier to reuse that than generate yet another filename :)
15:17:39  <Ammler> hg update
15:17:40  <planetmaker> what?
15:17:47  <Ammler> and you have a very clean working copy :-)
15:17:50  <planetmaker> :D
15:18:01  <planetmaker> does that work?
15:18:05  <Ammler> yes
15:18:10  <FooBar_> sorry to disturb your conversation here, but does redmine automatically update an issue to be closed if I add the issue # in the commit message?
15:18:10  <planetmaker> nice
15:18:14  <Ammler> that is the command to remove the working copy
15:18:31  <planetmaker> FooBar_, for certain words contained in there: yes
15:18:33  <Ammler> FooBar_: didn't it?
15:18:39  <planetmaker> like bug, issue, fix
15:18:45  <planetmaker> we can configure it and we did
15:18:52  <Ammler> [17:15] <Brot> [DevZone] OpenGFX - Bug #82 (Closed): close window button (foobar) - http://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/82#change-167
15:19:01  <Ammler> did you make that manually?
15:19:27  <FooBar_> yes, it did indeed. I discovered that when I was manually updating the issue and when I wanted to submit that, it told me that somebody else already had done that...
15:19:39  <planetmaker> :) it was you yourself :)
15:19:53  <FooBar_> only I didn't know it was me :P
15:19:58  <planetmaker> :)
15:20:18  <Ammler> planetmaker: is a very lazy guy, so we had to enable that feature ;-)
15:20:32  <planetmaker> fixes,closes,fix,close,issue, bug
15:20:43  <planetmaker> ^^ that preceeding #XX closes the issue
15:21:06  <FooBar_> good to know, saves some trouble updating the issue :)
15:21:12  <planetmaker> yes, indeed
15:21:31  <planetmaker> and we're all lazy, aren't we? ;)
15:22:00  <FooBar_> only if we know we can be lazy :P
15:22:18  <planetmaker> otoh this automatic behaviour requires to know the issue number when you type your commit message :)
15:23:23  <FooBar_> true, but  I wanted to add the issue number so I looked it up. Also because I figured that I had to close the issue manually, I had to look it up anyways.
15:23:40  <planetmaker> :)
15:24:02  <FooBar_> now carry on talking to Ammler ;)
15:24:42  <planetmaker> :P
15:25:23  <Ammler> forgot
15:30:17  <Brot> [DevZone] 2cc train set - Feature #81: precompiler? (Ammler) - http://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/81#change-168
15:36:56  <Ammler> this ugly underline
15:37:07  <Ammler> why did we use that for the filename?
15:37:17  <Ammler> but didn't for project
15:37:34  <planetmaker> he
15:38:20  <Ammler> and why not 2cc_train_set.grf?
15:38:42  <Ammler> now we have already 3 different names at version 1 :-)
15:38:52  <Ammler> 4 2ccdj is the other
15:38:53  <planetmaker> actually.... by means of proper pre-processor and sed files, it'd be possible to actually write something like a more high-level NFO code
15:39:03  <planetmaker> hehe :)
15:39:15  <planetmaker> why 4?
15:39:32  <planetmaker> hm... the name is 2cc_trainset.grf?
15:39:56  <planetmaker> then you're maybe right that we change the name of the file to without _
15:42:46  <Ammler> :-)
16:03:19  <Brot> [DevZone] OpenGFX - OpenGFX_Alpha4.2.tar (foobar) - http://dev.openttdcoop.org/attachments/download/90/OpenGFX_Alpha4.2.tar
16:57:12  <Ammler> http://dev.openttdcoop.org/tab/show/2cctrainset
17:52:18  <Ammler> [19:15] <CIA-3> OpenTTD: - Fix: [NewGRF] Valid UTF-8 sequences between 0x20 and 0xFF should be allowed as is instead of being treated as control codes (r16374)
19:52:22  *** DJNekkid has joined #openttdcoop.devzone
19:52:35  <DJNekkid> 'elo FooBar_ :)
19:53:06  <DJNekkid> and others for that matter :)
20:00:17  <DJNekkid> Ammler or planetmaker... are u there?
20:00:45  <planetmaker> a bit
20:00:55  <Ammler> a lot
20:01:50  <DJNekkid> is it possible to make the dutchset stuff only available to thoose and thoose accounts?
20:02:12  <planetmaker> yes. but why?
20:02:32  <DJNekkid> Hyronymus
20:02:32  <DJNekkid> Message subject: Re: Planning v1.5Folder: Inbox
20:02:33  <DJNekkid> No, but I don't want strangers to be able to acces the code. That was my only concern. Same goes with downloading it, I don't want anyone but "the team" to be able to download test versions there.
20:02:54  <planetmaker> :O
20:03:07  <Ammler> hmm
20:03:14  <planetmaker> can you convince him to skip that?
20:03:18  <planetmaker> that concern?
20:03:23  <DJNekkid> i have no idea
20:03:25  <Ammler> at least after the release?
20:03:39  <Ammler> or is that meant forever?
20:03:42  <DJNekkid> after release is it probably no problem
20:03:50  <planetmaker> because... I understand Ammlers concern: this is an open source server :)
20:04:11  <DJNekkid> well, i guess i can remove the "make script" and such
20:04:25  <Ammler> the main goal should be that everything becomes GPL here. :-)
20:04:35  <planetmaker> that's bullshit to remove the build script IMO
20:05:05  <planetmaker> what standing does Hyronimus have in that set?
20:05:28  <DJNekkid> the boss as far as i can see :)
20:05:33  <planetmaker> he
20:06:07  <Ammler> well, the problem which I do understand is, he don't want others to use preversions
20:06:20  <planetmaker> but I don't think there is a problem
20:06:36  <DJNekkid> Ammler: same here
20:07:00  <Ammler> DJNekkid: but as there is already a release, it shouldn't be a problem
20:07:03  <planetmaker> while that is in principle possible here - so what? it's not a release?
20:07:39  <DJNekkid> there is already a version 1.1 or something out...
20:07:55  <planetmaker> and as there is a grf... no one except for private purposes will build a grf...
20:08:18  <planetmaker> or you have to use a make script like 2cc which inserts the repository version :)
20:08:33  <planetmaker> well... like is planned there :P
20:08:48  <Ammler> hehe, just liked to ask, if that is already in :P
20:09:36  <Ammler> DJNekkid: it is up to you, you can make it private but the source should become gpl
20:10:18  <planetmaker> I'd be majorly sad if it'd become a private project.
20:10:24  <Ammler> and then you HAVE TO open the project with the release
20:10:34  <planetmaker> condition sine qua non
20:10:36  <planetmaker> ^^
20:10:47  <DJNekkid> all my code will be GPL, no matter what anyone say...
20:11:31  <planetmaker> there certainly is a difference between GPL code and making every single commit available.
20:11:46  <planetmaker> but I don#t understand why that difference has to be made :)
20:12:07  <planetmaker> DJNekkid: does Hyronimus know that the code is (going to be) GPL?
20:12:08  <FooBar_> Hi all, please carry on, I'll be reading up on what I've missed :P
20:12:34  <Ammler> how is the train set licensed now?
20:12:42  <DJNekkid> i have absolutely no idea
20:12:56  <planetmaker> maybe sort that out before you invest too much time ;)
20:13:07  <planetmaker> and as you're the coder, you have IMO quite a strong position
20:13:27  <planetmaker> up to the point of "either that or not me" ;)
20:13:59  <DJNekkid> according to the dutchset pages doesnt it say anything
20:14:00  <Ammler> we still have the license issue with purno ;-)
20:14:05  <DJNekkid> do u know anything FooBar_ ?
20:14:27  <Ammler> then it is most likely CC-ND
20:15:23  <FooBar_> yes, CC BY-NC-ND iirc
20:15:49  <planetmaker> mäh :S
20:15:54  <Ammler> hehe
20:16:15  <planetmaker> same license stuff as with 2cc train set, DJNekkid ? :)
20:16:22  <DJNekkid> i guess :)
20:16:33  <DJNekkid> btw FooBar_... did you do anything with the trams yet?
20:16:37  <FooBar_> I believe everything Purno is involved in is ND
20:16:40  <DJNekkid> bananas or something=?
20:16:42  <Ammler> well, it is the easy part, if you don't know, what the opinion of the other authors is, make it ND, so nobody has to fear, it will be used without asking him.$
20:16:56  <planetmaker> you should sort that out with him rather earlier than later, then, DJNekkid
20:17:13  <DJNekkid> i just sent a pm to the dutchset guys...
20:17:22  <DJNekkid> To:	Hyronymus Snail lobster Bastiaan Purno BlueEagle_nl
20:17:22  <DJNekkid> Message
20:17:22  <DJNekkid> btw, what kind of license are you guys thinking about with this set?
20:17:22  <DJNekkid> to be quite clear, from my side do i want GPL. If not the images and such, atleast my code is/will be just that.
20:17:25  <FooBar_> DJNekkid: I updated the ttdpatch parts accordingly, but it appears that patch doesn't understand that part of NFO. Unsure what to do about that....
20:17:36  <DJNekkid> patch sux! :p
20:17:39  <planetmaker> :)
20:18:06  <Ammler> hmm, I want to make a patch 2cc set :P
20:18:15  <planetmaker> (the smiley did refer to the pm you sent)
20:18:21  <FooBar_> well, a decision was made long time ago, so I'll have to accept that I think...
20:18:44  <DJNekkid> could always skip that part, simliar with the others?
20:18:53  <DJNekkid> but i find it wierd that patch did not accept that codeline?
20:18:54  <FooBar_> DJNekkid: If you make your code GPL, that can be quite interesting...
20:19:05  <planetmaker> hehe :)
20:19:06  <Ammler> 2cc is that way
20:19:10  <planetmaker> FooBar_: 2cc is
20:19:11  <DJNekkid> why?
20:19:25  <planetmaker> only on bananas we messed up to mark it as a custom license
20:19:26  <FooBar_> they can either make the whole set GPL and use your code, or just not use your code
20:19:52  <DJNekkid> if they dont wany my code, their loss :)
20:19:55  <planetmaker> custom license: code = GPL, images = CC-BY-NC-ND
20:20:04  <planetmaker> which is IMO kinda stupid, but alas
20:20:06  <FooBar_> grf is?
20:20:24  <Ammler> grf isn't gpl
20:20:37  <FooBar_> imo you can't build a releasable grf with that combination
20:20:38  <Ammler> grf is custom or CC-ND
20:20:44  <planetmaker> FooBar_: of course
20:20:51  <Ammler> snd the nfo is GPL
20:21:05  <planetmaker> custom licenses can specify anything
20:21:31  <planetmaker> the whole compiled grf is therefor ND because of the images, but the source code is GPL
20:21:40  <FooBar_> gpl enforces all derivatives (i.e. build of nfo code) to be gpl. cc enforces the same
20:21:44  <planetmaker> no, it's only 2nd best solution
20:21:47  <FooBar_> bit of a legal issue i think
20:21:54  <planetmaker> FooBar_: yes. derivatives
20:22:02  <planetmaker> but I can consider images and code seperate
20:22:20  <planetmaker> I can replace the images by anything, I think
20:22:25  <planetmaker> which is pcx
20:22:28  <FooBar_> ok, but once they're a grf, you can't consider them seperate...
20:22:48  <FooBar_> but then IANAL
20:22:50  <FooBar_> :P
20:22:55  <Ammler> :-)
20:22:56  <planetmaker> well...  yes. but you're explicitly allowed to use and re-use the source code
20:23:04  <planetmaker> and we are neither.
20:23:10  <planetmaker> neither lawers
20:24:06  <DJNekkid> but i dont see why people are so uptight about theese things ... it's a free game, with free artwork from the begining with, and everything is voulenteer work all the way
20:24:29  <FooBar_> agreed
20:24:31  <DJNekkid> and with all voulenteer work, people are bound to loose interest, and if or when that happens, other people should be free to take over
20:24:53  <Ammler> that is the point, if you would get paid for your work, you wouldn't care, but so
20:25:49  <Ammler> but imo GPL ensures that, if you use someones images, you have to credit him and again to publish it with GPL
20:26:41  <FooBar_> yep, and so does CC BY-NC-SA, which is a lot more open than CC BY-NC-ND.
20:27:33  <planetmaker> yes, indeed
20:27:34  <Ammler> well, the problem with CC licenses I have is, that you don't need to publish the source afaik.
20:27:50  <FooBar_> I don't see the point in the ND part, if BY-NC-SA protects everything you would want to protect, if you really want to use CC
20:28:10  <planetmaker> :) Thank you FooBar_ :)
20:28:18  <FooBar_> Ammler: correct. Not having to release the source could be a feature as well ;)
20:28:27  <FooBar_> planetmaker:  for what?
20:28:34  <Ammler> :-)
20:28:40  <planetmaker> It's sometimes nice to read that some very talented newgrf guys think the same lines :)
20:29:06  <DJNekkid> are you refereing to me and FooBar_ now? :p
20:29:15  <planetmaker> But yes... GPL for the source code is IMO nicer :)
20:29:18  <FooBar_> I think so, I'm not "some" :P
20:29:18  <planetmaker> DJNekkid: both :)
20:29:30  <planetmaker> pfft!
20:29:35  <Ammler> andy and zeph thing similar too
20:29:39  <FooBar_> anyways, thanks for the compliment
20:29:40  <DJNekkid> yup...
20:29:42  <Ammler> think*
20:30:01  <DJNekkid> btw, it were FooBar_ that taught be the first few stubeling steps of newgrf :)
20:30:03  <Ammler> or DankMacK and Zimmlock
20:30:22  <FooBar_> Even Pikka thinks somewhat the same, he doesn't license anything, but as soon as you ask he'll give you anything you need
20:30:39  <Ammler> danmac writes public domain but means gpl ;-)
20:30:44  <FooBar_> lol
20:31:06  <Ammler> public domain with credits is imo gpl
20:31:17  <planetmaker> yes, true :) Though "no license" is dangerous in that terms that it is lost, if he isn't reachable anymore.
20:31:19  <FooBar_> public domain doesn't exist in my country, so I would have to credit him anyways...
20:31:26  <planetmaker> though his custom license is ... ok
20:31:36  <Ammler> planetmaker: he has a license
20:31:43  <Ammler> public domain
20:31:54  <planetmaker> does Pikka have public domain?
20:32:06  <Ammler> no
20:32:11  <planetmaker> :)
20:32:13  <Ammler> pikka has CC-ND
20:32:14  <FooBar_> only if you ask first :P
20:32:30  <Ammler> (I meant danmack
20:32:39  <planetmaker> which is IMO the whole problem, FooBar_ :)
20:32:59  <planetmaker> a good license tells you what you may do without asking :)
20:33:09  <Ammler> indeed, pikkas work is lost if he would drop.
20:33:31  <FooBar_> granted
20:34:44  <DJNekkid> btw FooBar_...
20:34:52  <FooBar_> yes
20:35:00  <DJNekkid> did you try the dutchset.grf i uploaded to the repo earlier today?
20:35:11  <DJNekkid> it have an intersting feature :)
20:35:20  <FooBar_> no, I haven't...
20:35:47  <DJNekkid> all mu's will be a one-click buy
20:35:56  <Ammler> yeah, change the topic, license talk will never stop else, thanks :-)
20:36:07  <DJNekkid> and where they can have different length, they will only need a refit :)
20:36:10  <FooBar_> oh, that's sweet :P
20:36:48  <DJNekkid> in other words... no more "more" "stop" etc
20:36:50  <FooBar_> Ammler: I think us lot pretty much agrees on the license subject ;)
20:36:50  <planetmaker> :)
20:37:49  <DJNekkid> nifty trick tho ... all MU's are built as a articulated engine, with invisible parts etc
20:37:59  <DJNekkid> for example, the mat64 can have both 2 and 4 parts
20:38:13  <DJNekkid> the 2 parter is in reality 4x 4/8th length sprites
20:38:32  <DJNekkid> where the first and 3rd is "real" sprites, and 2 and 4 is blank ones, and have no capacity
20:38:34  <planetmaker> FooBar_: probably. :) And luckily :)
20:38:51  <FooBar_> i was thinking about such a feature, but never got around making a proof of concept. Now you've done that for me ;)
20:39:00  <planetmaker> nice it is indeed, DJNekkid :)
20:39:16  <Ammler> not sure about :-)
20:39:26  <planetmaker> hehe. Nice "pressure" util: make it GPL or skip this :P - but I won't go there again :)
20:39:35  <Ammler> isn't there also a rv set using that for trams?
20:39:52  <planetmaker> I think so. With two or three cars
20:39:55  <DJNekkid> and the nice thing is... sprites/wagons with 0 capacity, isnt shown in the grf-list
20:40:03  <Ammler> egrvts?
20:40:12  <DJNekkid> not that i know of?
20:40:26  <planetmaker> not sure. Might be German trams?
20:40:32  <planetmaker> or something. Some tram set
20:40:59  <FooBar_> just tried it ingame, works really sweet.
20:40:59  <DJNekkid> but, i guess zyph could do the same with the EGRTVS, to spare IDs, he could make all horse thingins into one
20:41:29  <FooBar_> yep, but with the engine pool there's no real need to spare IDs, is there?
20:41:37  <FooBar_> granted, the purchase list is a bit clogged...
20:41:37  <DJNekkid> partly
20:41:49  <DJNekkid> there can only be this many articulated engines in one grf
20:41:58  <DJNekkid> 127 iirc
20:42:10  <DJNekkid> 00 -> 7F
20:42:12  <planetmaker> I read / heard that, too
20:42:15  <planetmaker> but...
20:42:35  <FooBar_> ...they really need to fix that ;)
20:42:42  <planetmaker> hehe :)
20:42:53  <DJNekkid> im not sure why it cant be used the whole way up to FF tho...
20:43:00  <FooBar_> DJNekkid: there's also a 3-part ICM :P
20:43:16  <DJNekkid> FooBar_: try to build a ICM before 1990 please :)
20:43:19  <planetmaker> But too much realism hurts, if applied for all trains and you cannot buy your wagons seperately anymore :)
20:43:27  <FooBar_> possibly because +0x80 does something different
20:43:38  <FooBar_> DJNekkid: ah, I started the game in '90.
20:43:51  <DJNekkid> hehe :p
20:44:15  <FooBar_> planetmaker: for MU's it's a good feature I think, as they're only available in certain formations
20:44:38  <planetmaker> that's why I wrote _all_ trains :)
20:44:46  <DJNekkid> anyway, a IRM for instance ... is 3units, 4 units or 6 units
20:44:57  <DJNekkid> and 3 of theese can be connected
20:45:03  <planetmaker> though... why I cannot have an arbitrarily long ICE train - why not?
20:45:13  <planetmaker> it's not in the world as we live. But it's a game?
20:45:34  <DJNekkid> so it is posible to have virtually any formation up to TL9
20:45:50  <DJNekkid> i guess i could make the ICE3's and thalys' be able to be double length
20:46:20  <planetmaker> hm? In 2cc they're not limited, are they?
20:46:25  <planetmaker> or are they also in Dutch set?
20:46:31  <DJNekkid> the 2cc dont have any limitations
20:46:36  <planetmaker> oki
20:46:50  <DJNekkid> the _only_ limitation there is that all MU's cant carry mail
20:47:20  <DJNekkid> usually, the fastest and/or biggest in it's class
20:47:32  <DJNekkid> i.e: the ICE and duplex cant
20:49:44  <FooBar_> the ICE-3 descriptions is erroneous: it says max 1 ten-part unit, should be eight-part if you ask me :D
20:49:57  <DJNekkid> i know... just heavent been fixed yet :)
20:50:49  <FooBar_> alright
20:51:00  <FooBar_> maybe I should've opened an issue on the tracker :P
20:51:10  <DJNekkid> be my guest :)
20:51:19  <DJNekkid> that way i atleast wont forget :)
20:51:51  <FooBar_> while you're fixing, you could as well fix the IRM's description that it's an intercity as well. Although it was intended as regional train, it's never used that way
20:52:21  <FooBar_> and the Mat '64 is more like a local train...
20:52:48  <DJNekkid> oki...
20:53:00  <DJNekkid> i'll update that at once
20:53:28  <FooBar_> in fact, we don't have regional trains in the Netherlands, it's just local, intercity and the occasional high-speed or international train
20:53:39  <FooBar_> I'm starting to annoy you, right? :P
20:53:44  <DJNekkid> not really
20:53:51  <DJNekkid> i want to get discriptions right
20:54:33  <FooBar_> ok, shall I make an issue ticket then?
20:54:54  <DJNekkid> well, if you want to make better discriptions on them, be my guest
20:55:02  <DJNekkid> i mean
20:55:06  <DJNekkid> short haul intercity etc
20:55:33  <DJNekkid> but the cities in netherlands are so damn close...
20:55:54  <FooBar_> pretty much any train in NL is short haul... No train travels more than half an hour or so without stopping
20:55:56  <DJNekkid> so intercity there is more like a 15 minute trainride :)
20:56:27  <FooBar_> usual stops of intercity trains are indeed every 15 minutes
20:56:51  <DJNekkid> hehe... i've been to holland more then 1 time as you might have understood :)
20:57:03  <FooBar_> I have now :P
20:57:33  <DJNekkid> were the 4th time just recently, in a couple of years :)
20:58:12  <FooBar_> what's the occasion? The country can't be that fascinating if you ask me...
20:58:24  <Ammler> drugs
20:58:35  <FooBar_> Ammler: I was thinking the same :P
20:58:37  <DJNekkid> look at my name/nick, and make a calculated guess? :p
20:58:45  <DJNekkid> no, we dont do drugs
20:58:57  <DJNekkid> but sensation, trance energy and mysteryland is quite tempting :)
20:59:05  <FooBar_> then it must be the red light distric, or naked women in plain language :P
20:59:29  <FooBar_> oh, that other part of your nickname :P
20:59:56  <DJNekkid> perhaps i'll get a gig down there some day :)
21:01:44  <FooBar_> let me know if you do
21:01:49  <DJNekkid> hehe
21:01:59  <DJNekkid> i doubt it tho...
21:02:17  <DJNekkid> then i would need some serious connections first :)
21:02:24  <DJNekkid> know a clubowner down there? :9
21:03:28  <FooBar_> up here? not really I'm afraid...
21:04:18  <Brot> [DevZone] Dutch Train Set - Bug #86: train descriptions (foobar) - http://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/86
21:04:59  <DJNekkid> :)
21:07:18  <Brot> [DevZone] OpenGFX - Revision 5: Feature: add rudimentary makefile support (planetmaker) - http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/opengfx/repository/revisions/5
21:08:11  <FooBar_> also, there's an error if I add the DD-AR unit to the (refitted) Velios. Have to refit it again to set the correct sprites on the last wagon
21:08:50  <DJNekkid> it's not supposed to be fittable to that anyway...
21:09:06  <DJNekkid> but as you can see, its far from finished :)
21:09:24  <Ammler> planetmaker: we should make a Makefile framework
21:09:36  <planetmaker> hehe :)
21:09:40  <Ammler> :-)
21:09:42  <planetmaker> generic grf makefiles :)
21:09:50  <planetmaker> would make sense.
21:09:56  <planetmaker> Like a proto grf project
21:10:05  <Ammler> make 2cctrainset
21:10:15  <FooBar_> planetmaker: you missed ogfx1 in the FILENAMES of makefile.config I think...
21:10:29  <planetmaker> oh...? well, then I should fix it :)
21:11:01  <planetmaker> indeed it's not there
21:11:25  <FooBar_> also, can you make "version" of opengfx.obg configurable through the makefile?
21:11:37  <Ammler> yep :-)
21:11:56  <Ammler> hg parent --template="{rev}\n"
21:12:21  <FooBar_> Ammler: I was about to suggest that that may take the revision number ;)
21:12:29  <planetmaker> FooBar_: yes. that's the next step
21:12:41  <FooBar_> sweet!
21:12:51  <Ammler> alpha5-rXXX
21:12:53  <FooBar_> sorry I'm ahead of you. Just a little exited :P
21:13:18  <Ammler> oh, and foobar, btw. :-)
21:13:19  <Brot> [DevZone] OpenGFX - Revision 6: Fix (r5): always add all files to the file list... (planetmaker) - http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/opengfx/repository/revisions/6
21:13:48  <planetmaker> damn...
21:13:56  <Ammler> it is suboptimal to include the revision to the filename itself :-)
21:14:01  <planetmaker> I renumbered the files... changed every nfo :(
21:14:06  <planetmaker> bad bad
21:14:16  <planetmaker> that's going to need fixing in the make file :)
21:14:20  <Ammler> rollback
21:14:35  <planetmaker> never did
21:14:37  <planetmaker> how?
21:14:39  <FooBar_> -k
21:14:48  <Ammler> just run it on your maschine and on the server
21:14:53  <FooBar_> add that to the renum process
21:14:59  <Ammler> hg rollback
21:15:19  <planetmaker> Ammler: via ssh on the server?
21:15:41  <Ammler> FooBar_: because if you use grf lists in the cfg, you have to change them everytime you change the revision
21:15:45  <Ammler> planetmaker: yes
21:16:03  <planetmaker> ty. done
21:16:15  <planetmaker> FooBar_: if you have pulled, you should do it, too
21:16:52  <Ammler> planetmaker: now you need to revert the hg repo in redmine
21:16:55  <FooBar_> Ammler: I was talking about the version number inside the .obg file (http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/opengfx/repository/entry/opengfx.obg)
21:16:57  <Ammler> :-)
21:17:20  <Ammler> or you just do the same commit again, just right.
21:17:28  <planetmaker> I do
21:17:45  <FooBar_> filenames can stay the same troughout revisions, the version needs to be increased to let ottd know what's newer ;)
21:18:10  <Ammler> FooBar_: I was meant as a general note to your usual behavoir
21:18:12  <Ammler> ;-)
21:18:22  <Ammler> you do it on most of your GRFs
21:18:54  <Ammler> or just on beta releases?
21:19:00  <planetmaker> FooBar_: if you look in the obg file, you'll see that the version is already replaced by a string :)
21:20:37  <FooBar_> planetmaker: It just reads plain "6" here. The version inside the description is indeed replaced by a string, not the version var. At least not on my end
21:21:15  <planetmaker> FooBar_: yes. the next step will be to replace that generic string by something from the config file, and the repo revision number
21:21:24  <FooBar_> Ammler: let's say I just do that on beta releases. As I haven't released any proper non-beta grf, I'm on the safe side I guess :P
21:21:43  <FooBar_> But I realise what you mean.
21:21:45  <Ammler> :-D
21:21:51  <planetmaker> hehe :)
21:22:10  <planetmaker> welcome to the land of the eternal beta :D
21:22:18  <FooBar_> planetmaker: alright then :P
21:22:22  <Ammler> well, bananas makes something similar bad.
21:22:29  <FooBar_> I seem to be just like Google sometimes...
21:22:35  <planetmaker> hm?
21:22:53  <FooBar_> I think bananas does that for a reason.
21:22:54  <planetmaker> can I go and send you search stuff for me?
21:23:10  <FooBar_> only if it's beta :P
21:23:30  <planetmaker> oh, every thing I need is only provisionally. So... it's beta :)
21:24:31  <FooBar_> bananas: keeping different filenames for different revisions allows to finish old games with an old version of a grf, while having the ability to start a new one with the new version
21:25:05  <Ammler> yeah, still :-)
21:25:07  <FooBar_> come to think of it, that's probably why I keep different filenames for different revisions. It has it's pros and cons...
21:25:35  <Ammler> dunno, maybe it doesn't need th epath anymore.
21:25:59  <Ammler> I see it from admin view ;-)
21:26:17  <Ammler> I have to setup games and prepare scenarios somethimes...
21:26:47  <Ammler> I like to use my grf presets
21:27:26  <Ammler> if a grf isn't compatible anymore
21:27:33  <Ammler> you should change the GRFID
21:28:11  <FooBar_> agreed, but if you overwrite it, you'll lose the ability to play an old game.
21:28:25  <Ammler> no
21:28:31  <FooBar_> having that said, if a grf isn't compatible, it should both change ID and name...
21:28:33  <FooBar_> why not?
21:28:45  <Ammler> if you have another ID, you will also change the filename :-)
21:28:57  <Ammler> yep :-)
21:31:36  <FooBar_> planetmaker: how did that rollback come along?
21:35:29  <Ammler> https://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/opengfx/repository/revisions/6 <-> http://mz.openttdcoop.org/hg/opengfx/rev/ed4f0a3ca251
21:36:11  <Ammler> planetmaker: if you wonder how to fix the repo in redmine
21:36:47  <Ammler> just remove the repo, and readd it again. in Settings -> Repository
21:37:01  <planetmaker> FooBar_: rolled back
21:37:19  <Brot> [DevZone] OpenGFX - Revision 7: Add .hgignore for Makefile.local (planetmaker) - http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/opengfx/repository/revisions/7
21:37:20  <planetmaker> Ammler: uhm?
21:37:49  <Ammler> compare the 2 links I posted
21:37:59  <Ammler> it isn't really important
21:38:59  <planetmaker> hm, yes. looks... funny. Or outdated :D
21:39:25  <FooBar_> planetmaker: alright.
21:39:42  <planetmaker> Ammler: is it save to delete and re-add?
21:39:44  <FooBar_> might i suggest adding "-k" to NFORENUM_FLAGS in order to prevent it from happening again?
21:39:49  <Ammler> yep, no problem
21:40:00  <planetmaker> FooBar_: no. I'll modify makefile
21:40:11  <planetmaker> well... -k would solve it, yes
21:40:33  <FooBar_> that would mean that a bunch of *.nfo.new.nfo will be created. Those have to be grfcodeced instead of *.nfo then
21:40:38  <planetmaker> but I'd prefer to rename the nfo files in the first place.
21:40:56  <Ammler> yep, just liked to sav
21:40:58  <Ammler> say
21:41:16  <Ammler> grfcodec likes to use nfo
21:41:26  <FooBar_> well, do whatever suits you best, just saying...
21:41:30  <Ammler> I would change then to hnfo or so
21:42:44  <Ammler> or pnfo in this case, dunno, if you preprocess them?
21:43:01  <planetmaker> Ammler: now... I removed and re-added the repo
21:43:09  <planetmaker> And ALL versioning information is lost.
21:43:25  <planetmaker> on the web interface. hehehe
21:43:37  <Ammler> F5
21:43:58  <Ammler> or just switch to an other tab
21:44:43  <planetmaker> doesn't work
21:44:47  <Ammler> ah
21:44:49  <Ammler> yes
21:44:51  <planetmaker> every revision has ?
21:44:53  <Ammler> doesn't :-=
21:44:56  <planetmaker> *every file
21:45:04  <Ammler> I disabled autofetch
21:45:10  <planetmaker> well. nvm. We tested it and now we know :)
21:45:14  <Ammler> it need a commit :-)
21:45:20  <Ammler> or you wait an hour
21:45:38  <Ammler> every 11min past
21:45:50  <Ammler> you know what?
21:46:16  <Ammler> it will come back, trust me ;-=)
21:50:49  <FooBar_> it still knows the revisions if you type it in the little box in the upper right corner. e.g. type 4 in the box and see the makefiles disappear from the list.
21:58:18  <Brot> [DevZone] OpenGFX - Revision 5: Feature: add rudimentary makefile support (planetmaker) - http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/opengfx/repository/revisions/5
21:58:19  <Brot> [DevZone] OpenGFX - Revision 6: Fix (r5): always add all files to the file list... (planetmaker) - http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/opengfx/repository/revisions/6
21:58:20  <Brot> [DevZone] OpenGFX - Revision 7: Add .hgignore for Makefile.local (planetmaker) - http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/opengfx/repository/revisions/7
21:58:42  <Ammler> hehe
22:01:18  <Brot> [DevZone] OpenGFX - Revision 8: Fix (r5): avoid renumbering of original files. Name them .pnfo (planetmaker) - http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/opengfx/repository/revisions/8
22:03:00  * Ammler disabled autofetch again
22:14:48  *** XeryusTC is now known as Xeryus|bnc
22:19:18  <Brot> [DevZone] OpenGFX - Bug #87: "space" character of newspaperfont (foobar) - http://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/87
22:24:11  <FooBar_> goodnight all, I'm off
22:24:12  <Ammler> another side note FooBar_
22:24:17  <DJNekkid> quite nice theese bugs arent they foobar ... you kinda feel obligated to get rid of them :)
22:24:26  <Ammler> http://mz.openttdcoop.org/hg/opengfx <-- also has zip, gz and bz2 links
22:24:30  <FooBar_> ah, then I'm waiting if you start talking again...
22:24:51  <Ammler> so if someone don't like to use hg, he can just download a zip of the course.
22:25:13  <Ammler> source*
22:25:24  <Ammler> and I wish you a good night too :-)
22:25:56  <FooBar_> thanks ammler. I'll add that to the readme al well
22:26:44  <Ammler> I have actually no idea, how my server would handle multiple calls to it, but well, we will see.
22:26:46  <FooBar_> nighty-night
22:26:57  *** FooBar_ has quit IRC
23:49:53  *** DJNekkid has quit IRC
23:53:09  *** DJNekkid has joined #openttdcoop.devzone

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