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Log for #openttdcoop.devzone on 16th June 2009:
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01:33:22  <Brot6> Backup done! (Usage: 56M)
01:33:22  <Brot6> It was a JOKE!! Get it?? I was receiving messages from DAVID LETTERMAN!! YOW!!
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08:14:38  <DJNekkid> go damn it ... im starting to turn out to a "newgrf knowitall bitch"
08:14:57  *** ChanServ sets mode: +o DJNekkid
08:16:21  *** ChanServ sets mode: +o Ammler
08:17:01  <Ammler> hmm
08:17:32  <Ammler> he, morning DJNekkid
08:17:40  <Ammler> so we need to call you Guru?
08:18:43  <Ammler> this chanserv is just mäh
08:18:46  <andythenorth> bleargh pixels
08:18:47  <Ammler> @deop
08:18:47  *** Webster sets mode: -o Ammler
08:19:08  <Ammler> no idea, why i opped me.
08:19:14  <Ammler> it*
08:25:16  <DJNekkid> lol
08:25:23  <DJNekkid> no you dont need to call be guru
08:25:38  <DJNekkid> i just notice that when i see people talk about newgrf/nfo in the forums im starting to get bitchy
08:26:42  <Ammler> true
08:26:57  <DJNekkid> hehe!
08:27:16  <DJNekkid> i.e. im turning out to be something i hated...
08:27:18  <Ammler> well, you said it self :-)
08:28:05  <DJNekkid> well, it's good that i actually noticed it...
08:28:07  <DJNekkid> then i can do something about it!
08:28:17  <Brot6> ::DevZone:: World Airliners Set - Feature #214: the P-list looks quite boring ... gray :) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/214 (by DJNekkid)
08:28:36  <DJNekkid> http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=36&t=43952&view=unread#unread
08:28:42  <Webster> Title: Transport Tycoon Forums View topic - Narrow Gauge Locos for Tram Ways (at www.tt-forums.net)
08:28:52  <DJNekkid> _where_ can one set max reliability??? :p
08:32:17  <Ammler> DJNekkid: did you op yourself?
08:32:29  <DJNekkid> yes
08:32:40  <Ammler> did you op me?
08:32:59  <DJNekkid> yes
08:32:59  <DJNekkid> :p
08:33:20  <Ammler> oh, that explains, then I don't to complain about chanserv ;-)
08:33:38  <DJNekkid> OP's get more pussy
08:34:44  <Ammler> :-o
08:35:12  <Ammler> I am master here :-D
08:35:22  <Brot6> ::DevZone:: World Airliners Set - Revision 133: Added B717-200 to TT @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/worldairlineset/repository/revisions/133 (by Beardie27)
08:39:12  <DJNekkid> hehe
08:39:15  <DJNekkid> hmm ...
08:39:22  <DJNekkid> im wondering if i can get this to work!
08:43:23  <DJNekkid> did u see the QR narrow guage thingy btw?
08:47:59  <Ammler> will you add that to the 2cc set?
08:48:10  <DJNekkid> no!
08:48:10  <DJNekkid> far from it
08:48:12  <DJNekkid> hehe
08:48:30  <DJNekkid> i just had half an hour on a ferry yesterday....
08:48:42  <DJNekkid> so i thought "lets make that thing for him" ...
08:48:48  <DJNekkid> so i wrote it basicly from the top of my head
08:48:59  <DJNekkid> and everything worked as intended the first compile
08:49:03  <DJNekkid> i were quite impressed of myself :)
08:52:14  <Ammler> :P
08:52:40  <DJNekkid> not only that, the code is pretty much perfectly commented :)
08:52:57  <Ammler> that is true, I checked the nfo
08:53:02  <planetmaker> good day folks :)
08:53:03  <Ammler> very nice,
08:53:18  <DJNekkid> hi planetmaker :)
08:53:24  <Ammler> wb planetmaker
08:53:51  <planetmaker> you have a lovely home country, Ammler :)
08:55:04  <Ammler> how you know, you just drove through
08:55:20  <Ammler> :-(
08:55:33  <planetmaker> well. What I see looks at least like :)
08:55:44  <planetmaker> But I'm kinda hooked to find out :)
08:56:02  <planetmaker> whether it's only looks or whether it's also lovely beyond that superficial look I got :)
08:56:34  <Ammler> :-)
08:56:49  <Ammler> how was the wedding trip?
09:00:01  <planetmaker> it was an awesome thing.
09:00:54  <planetmaker> the journey itself, though, of course, is a bit exhausting. When we drove back, we started the engine at 6:30h am and I was home at 23:30h
09:01:09  <planetmaker> the traffic around Milano just sucks :)
09:01:22  <planetmaker> The time in and around Pisa, the wedding itself - very great :)
09:02:24  <planetmaker> Italian weddings are different from ours, though :) - and it's not only the language :P
09:03:27  <DJNekkid> planetmaker: you got married to an italian girl, or you attended an italian wedding?
09:03:38  <planetmaker> and the weather is really different from here... we started at a rainy day and we arrived at a rainy day. And in Pisa the weather is... just fine
09:03:49  <planetmaker> DJNekkid, I just attended the wedding of a friend of mine.
09:03:57  <planetmaker> A Dutch friend of mine actually :)
09:04:10  <DJNekkid> oki :)
09:05:30  <planetmaker> The food is amazing and the ceremony was also quite nice as was the reception in a nice mediteranean villa with a view over the whole town :)
09:06:37  <DJNekkid> sounds cheap :P
09:09:13  <planetmaker> hehe. I've no idea. But just awesome :) I'd love to live there :)
09:09:38  <planetmaker> maybe as summer residence.
09:09:57  <DJNekkid> we have a saying in norway ... "borte bra, men hjemme best" translates pretty directly to something like "Away is good, but home is best"
09:13:24  <planetmaker> :)
09:13:48  <planetmaker> yeah. The temperatures are too hot for me for long-term exposure ;)
09:14:11  <planetmaker> I'm rather at home with North European temperatures :)
09:14:30  <planetmaker> They have there like 30°C and no clouds right now...
09:14:35  <Ammler> planetmaker: the weather was nice here too :P
09:14:44  <planetmaker> But the mediteranean was nice swimming on Sunday :)
09:14:47  <Ammler> that wasn't because of the trip
09:14:53  <DJNekkid> 30c is rather perfect imho...
09:15:07  <DJNekkid> but not too much more...
09:15:08  <planetmaker> DJNekkid, 20°C is perfect :P
09:15:26  <DJNekkid> not if its windy :p
09:15:37  <Ammler> I agree to pm
09:15:51  <planetmaker> DJNekkid, also then :)
09:16:09  <Ammler> well, maybe some more, but 30 isn't nice anymore
09:16:26  <Ammler> specially if you work in a office without clima control
09:17:17  <planetmaker> A temperature is too warm, when I'm sweating and removing further clothes would be indecent :)
09:18:14  <DJNekkid> true!
09:18:43  <planetmaker> hehe :) And that condition is certainly reached for nearly any weather condition with T>25°C
09:19:33  <planetmaker> unless I'm only lying in a net, spanned between two palm trees and served cold drinks by hot chicks. Or alike :P
09:19:45  <Ammler> http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/clientpatches <-- thought about making patch queue repo, but it isn't compatible with.
09:20:28  <planetmaker> hehe. re-write autostart to use hg instead of svn :)
09:20:55  <DJNekkid> how come glasses always get dirty?
09:21:42  <DJNekkid> and, how come purno actually draw a sprite too large? :)
09:25:18  <Ammler> [11:20] <planetmaker> hehe. re-write autostart to use hg instead of svn   <-- austostart could use -p1 for now
09:26:49  <Brot6> ::DevZone:: World Airliners Set - Feature #214: the P-list looks quite boring ... gray :) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/214#change-464 (by athanasios)
09:28:34  <planetmaker> Ammler, that might be an idea, yes. Or rather: make it a config entry.
09:28:50  <planetmaker> like PATCH_LEVEL = {0|1}
09:28:57  <Ammler> planetmaker: me and andythenorth found another downside of the revision number in the release dir
09:29:06  <planetmaker> hm?
09:29:16  <planetmaker> which rev no? of hg?
09:29:31  <Ammler> speaking about your Makefile
09:29:51  <planetmaker> the rev no I extract via hg then, yes?
09:30:06  <Ammler> if you have a running openttd with the grf, you need to restart openttd for every version change
09:30:17  <Ammler> wouldn't be needed, else.
09:30:30  <planetmaker> please elaborate. I don't get it.
09:31:28  <Ammler> as long as you don't commit, it is fine, as every grf will have same rev XXM, but when you commit, you need to restart openttd
09:32:10  <planetmaker> I still don't get it.
09:32:20  <planetmaker> commit what where when?
09:32:28  <planetmaker> and what is "every grf"?
09:32:34  <Ammler> change of the grf, you are developing on
09:33:31  <planetmaker> ?
09:33:33  <Ammler> dont find "every grf" in my
09:33:38  <Ammler> comments
09:33:48  <Ammler> menno
09:34:00  <Ammler> if you make a grf and load it in openttd
09:34:09  <planetmaker> yes. It finds *some* version
09:34:23  <Ammler> what heppens, if you change the grf?
09:34:31  <Ammler> with a commit?
09:34:32  <planetmaker> unless things are within a tar file. then it should find *all*
09:34:52  <planetmaker> I don't change the grf file which openttd accesses with a commit.
09:35:13  <Ammler> at least, andy and I needs to restart
09:35:15  <planetmaker> well... I *could* have a different one with same name... yes
09:35:17  <DJNekkid> are u talking about the name in the grflist?
09:35:24  <planetmaker> ^^
09:35:41  <planetmaker> hm..... food here.
09:36:22  <Ammler> well, we thought about making a dev flag, which does crate a folder like <grf>-dev
09:36:27  <DJNekkid> should not need to restart...
09:36:27  <DJNekkid> io just click "apply"
09:36:35  <Ammler> but imo, I see no use for having the revision in the folder.
09:36:54  <Ammler> DJNekkid: if the filename changed?
09:37:11  <Ammler> as it does after commit
09:37:21  <DJNekkid> oh...
09:37:50  <DJNekkid> remove, rescan, add new, apply?
09:39:00  <DJNekkid> should work most times
09:44:18  <DJNekkid> did my connection drop?
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10:42:12  <Ammler> DJNekkid: no, we just ignore you now :P
10:42:52  <Ammler> your suggestion is as ugly as restart, almost.
10:43:07  <Ammler> imo, it should be possible to just "reapply"
10:45:11  <planetmaker> Ammler, a new grf is found, if placed in the data folder. At least here.
10:45:20  <planetmaker> just hit "rescan file list"
10:45:44  <Ammler> well, but that could change to a random other version, either,
10:45:58  <Ammler> anyway, resacn is as ugly as restart, if it works.
10:46:08  <planetmaker> with what OpenTTD version did you test?
10:46:50  <Ammler> me?
10:47:28  <Ammler> it doesn't work will all versions I know
10:47:58  <Ammler> and imo, it isn't a bug, openttd can't know, which version it should take, you should know that :P
10:48:35  <planetmaker> it can. It can take the one with the newest time stamp.
10:48:52  <Ammler> does it?
10:49:05  <planetmaker> in lack of a better (minor newgrf version), it's IMO the best solution. Dunno whether it does. But it could
10:49:17  <Ammler> hmm, that would be a nice idea, imo.
10:50:35  <Ammler> well, but that wouldn't solve our issue.
10:51:09  <Ammler> it woudn't reload the new grf, if the old still is there, which is with the revision in the name.
10:51:19  <planetmaker> what exactly is the issue? That the grf isn't loaded anew?
10:51:39  <DJNekkid> the names dont update
10:51:45  <planetmaker> "revision in the name" is like heqs-nightly-r13?
10:51:49  <Ammler> yes
10:52:01  <planetmaker> And you're sure it doesn't use the new one, if you overwrite it?
10:52:07  <DJNekkid> you need to as i saied before i crash ...
10:52:10  <Ammler> if you make a new version, it won't load it as long as the old is around.
10:52:25  <DJNekkid> remove - rescan files - add new - apply
10:52:31  <DJNekkid> that way it will keep its name
10:52:38  <planetmaker> You must not have two identically named ones. UNLESS they're in differently named tars with different sub dirs.
10:52:39  <DJNekkid> i mean
10:52:43  <DJNekkid> update its name
10:52:59  <planetmaker> E.g. if you have the same name like mynewgrf.grf, you have to have a tar with a structure like
10:53:13  <planetmaker> blub.tar/mynewgrf_r13/myfancynewgrf.grf
10:53:20  <planetmaker> and then it will be unique and everything be found
10:53:28  <planetmaker> and afaik my makefile supports just that.
10:53:39  <planetmaker> Of course, it doesn't work, if you don't use tars. But why wouldn't you.
10:53:43  <Ammler> yeah, it shouldn't :P
10:53:49  <DJNekkid> you can also, in windows, have two stuff.grf, but in different locations
10:53:51  <Ammler> it should overwrite the old grf
10:54:02  <planetmaker> It doesn't.
10:54:13  <DJNekkid> .\ottd\data\stuff.grf and .\ottd\data\bleh\stuff.grf
10:54:17  <planetmaker> IF the grf is in a uniquely named dir inside the tar
10:54:22  <DJNekkid> both will be found in the newgrf list
10:54:34  <planetmaker> yes, DJNekkid :)
10:54:50  <planetmaker> And I still don't see the problem actually...
10:54:54  <DJNekkid> bleh.tar\rev100\cool.grf ... bleh.tar\rev101\cool.grf
10:55:02  <planetmaker> both will be found
10:55:03  <Ammler> yes, you do that with revision in the title, which is good
10:55:04  <DJNekkid> i dont even know what the problem is :p
10:55:16  <Ammler> but revision in the folder is the bad thing.
10:55:25  <planetmaker> Ammler, why?
10:55:29  <Ammler> ah
10:55:36  <DJNekkid> wou want stuff-rev100.grf
10:55:40  <Ammler> planetmaker: try it
10:55:41  <DJNekkid> and stuff-rev101.grf ?
10:55:46  <Ammler> DJNekkid: NO$
10:55:56  <Ammler> iwant just newgrf.grf
10:56:02  <Ammler> or newgrf/newgrf.grf
10:56:03  <DJNekkid> with the rev in its name?
10:56:08  <planetmaker> Ammler, so, what _exactly_ does not work?
10:56:10  <Ammler> no rev at all nowhere
10:56:23  <DJNekkid> then what is the problem?
10:56:34  <planetmaker> Ammler, if you have no rev in the folder name, OpenTTD will pick a random one.
10:56:40  <Ammler> planetmaker: load a grf
10:56:41  <planetmaker> as the tar names are stripped from the path
10:56:46  <Ammler> in openttd
10:56:51  <Ammler> change something and commit
10:57:02  <Ammler> then hit apply in the newgrf window
10:57:15  <planetmaker> Commiting has no issue in this.
10:57:26  <Ammler> of course, as the commit changes the rev
10:57:36  <DJNekkid> so?
10:57:36  <planetmaker> yes. And then I have
10:57:49  <planetmaker> blub-r13.tar/blub-r13/mygrf.grf
10:57:54  <Ammler> else you would have exactly the same rev and it would reload
10:57:55  <planetmaker> blug-r14.tar/blub-r14/mygrf.grf
10:57:58  <planetmaker> and that works.
10:58:17  <planetmaker> at least last time I checked.
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11:00:43  <Ammler> planetmaker: so you load blub13.grf
11:01:01  <DJNekkid> btw, make in windows gives a few errosr
11:01:05  <Ammler> and after you have blub14.grf, openttd does automatically switch ot that?
11:01:33  <DJNekkid> i thought u saied that the rev-number werent anywhere?
11:01:43  <DJNekkid> except in the grf-name
11:02:06  <Ammler> DJNekkid: it should be that way, but planetmaker prefers the rev number in the path
11:02:29  <DJNekkid> he on that :p
11:02:45  <Ammler> I didn't like it, as it is just bad practice, but didn't have a real reason to be against.
11:02:53  <Ammler> now I have a reason :-)
11:03:00  <Brot6> ::DevZone:: 2cc train set - Revision 202: testing ammlers bug @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/2cctrainset/repository/revisions/202 (by DJNekkid)
11:03:29  <Ammler> DJNekkid: you don't need to push
11:03:40  <Ammler> you know, hg repo is dedicated :P
11:03:42  <DJNekkid> it will show up somewhere anyway :)
11:04:06  <DJNekkid> or if i pull stuff one of you make in 2 days and i do stuff in 3 days :)
11:04:20  <Ammler> he?
11:04:40  <Ammler> you know, you can easy rollback and strip
11:04:53  <DJNekkid> now i do
11:04:57  <Ammler> :P
11:05:22  <planetmaker> arg.... test commits?!
11:05:23  <DJNekkid> all i did were adding an (yet) unused file :)
11:05:38  <DJNekkid> but anyway:
11:06:04  <DJNekkid> if the newgrfname (ingame) changes, it will update the game with its changes
11:06:30  <Ammler> yes
11:06:30  <DJNekkid> but the name in the newgrf settings (add, remove, move up/down) dont change
11:06:50  <Ammler> hmm
11:07:00  <DJNekkid> for that you need to rescan
11:07:02  <Ammler> because you have the old now obsolete grf too
11:07:10  <planetmaker> well. I was explained by Rubi himself that the name in the path within the grf is absolutely necessary in order to have ALL versions of a grf accessible at the same time.
11:07:11  <DJNekkid> no i dont
11:07:12  <DJNekkid> its overwritten
11:07:17  <planetmaker> If it doesn't work, it's a bug.
11:07:24  <Ammler> planetmaker: yes
11:07:30  <Ammler> you need the bananas grfs
11:07:32  <Ammler> and our
11:07:33  <planetmaker> And I think we should adhere that behaviour
11:07:45  <Ammler> but we don't need ours to multiply to
11:07:46  <Ammler> o
11:07:54  <DJNekkid> anyway, im off for a while... shower and haircut *love days with little to do at work*
11:07:54  <planetmaker> ?
11:08:11  <Ammler> DJNekkid: shave?
11:08:13  <planetmaker> so you want to skip the different versions for nightlies?
11:08:27  <planetmaker> nah. I want to be able to have several concurrently.
11:08:36  <Ammler> planetmaker: we need to make a folder to different ours from the bananas grfs
11:08:44  <planetmaker> Forcefully overwriting them is bad practise
11:08:48  <Ammler> which will be done by banans, won't?
11:08:58  <planetmaker> uh?
11:09:01  <Ammler> planetmaker: then do that for you
11:09:07  <planetmaker> no
11:09:12  <Ammler> but the general user don't want that
11:09:13  <planetmaker> why do we need that?
11:09:21  <planetmaker> the general user doesn't build newgrfs
11:09:21  <Ammler> and a dev don't want that
11:09:34  <planetmaker> c'mon.
11:09:45  <Ammler> yes, so why should he need 10 different grf versions?
11:09:54  <planetmaker> comparison.
11:09:57  <Ammler> hmm
11:10:00  <Ammler> sorry
11:10:07  <Ammler> I give up
11:10:42  <planetmaker> I mean, why shouldn't we allow that?
11:10:58  <Ammler> he?
11:11:09  <Ammler> we don't allow that?
11:11:10  <planetmaker> so basically your issue is - I still haven't understood it really, I guess - that you end up with many newgrf in your newgrf dir?
11:11:27  <Ammler> no
11:11:48  <Ammler> but it is ok, I hope you will sometimes get the same issue as me and andy.
11:11:56  <Ammler> I will remember you then :P
11:12:01  <planetmaker> fail
11:12:05  <planetmaker> to explain.
11:12:26  <planetmaker> you throw snippets of sentences at me and I can puzzle.
11:12:39  <planetmaker> When I don't grasp the context and what you tried, it's my fault :(
11:12:41  <planetmaker> nice
11:12:57  <Ammler> never said, it is your fault
11:12:59  <planetmaker> make a decent problem description, maybe I'll understand then.
11:13:28  <Ammler> load a grf
11:13:38  <Ammler> change something
11:13:44  <Ammler> make
11:13:51  <Ammler> hit apply
11:14:02  <planetmaker> load: where?
11:14:04  <Ammler> (something not understandable)?
11:14:05  <planetmaker> change: where?
11:14:10  <planetmaker> something= what?
11:14:13  <planetmaker> apply: what?
11:14:15  <Ammler> oh, seems all :-)
11:14:18  <planetmaker> not understandable
11:14:27  <Ammler> load a grf in openttd
11:14:42  <planetmaker> in a game?
11:14:51  <Ammler> how do you load a game else?
11:14:56  <Ammler> grf*
11:14:56  <planetmaker> yes, ok
11:15:11  <planetmaker> and then you want to update the grf on a _running_ game?
11:15:19  <planetmaker> I mean running map?
11:15:43  <Ammler> now you change a offset or so of a sprite
11:15:54  <Ammler> then you commit that change and run make
11:16:04  <Ammler> then you hit apply.
11:16:10  <Ammler> in the newgrf window
11:16:18  <planetmaker> running make will have no influence on OpenTTD
11:16:36  <planetmaker> I'll need to make install or copy the tar or grf somewhere at least
11:16:41  <Ammler> oh please, don't say "changing newgrfs in a running game isn't supported"
11:16:45  <planetmaker> and it's crucial what this step is.
11:16:52  <planetmaker> of course, I say that.
11:17:15  <planetmaker> but the main point is, you skip what is important: what file do you add to the openttd data folder.
11:17:18  <planetmaker> make doesn't do anything
11:17:26  <Ammler> well, then I have lost anyway.
11:17:29  <planetmaker> except create a grf file in the grf dev directory
11:17:43  <planetmaker> make install will copy the tar file to the specified path.
11:17:51  <planetmaker> But I don't know what you do.
11:18:21  <planetmaker> You may have some funny symlinks, you may copy the grf itself (w/o path / tars), etc pp
11:18:31  <planetmaker> and THAT is what you constantly fail to explain.
11:18:33  <Ammler> well, that is how andy did it, and obviously that wouldn't work
11:18:40  <planetmaker> and THAT is what is what you have an issue with
11:19:00  <planetmaker> HOW DID you do it? you own word how it doesn't work?
11:19:01  <Ammler> I did with symlink to the project root, which doesn't work either.
11:19:24  <Ammler> that is why run only "make"
11:19:24  <planetmaker> so, please: make a walk-through for me with ALL information.
11:19:52  <Ammler> well, I really can't get you serious.
11:20:05  <Ammler> if you don't support loading newgrf on a running game, sorry.
11:20:19  <planetmaker> I don't know what your data directory looks like.
11:20:30  <planetmaker> And I don't know what you want to achieve.
11:20:51  <planetmaker> Both is kinda crucial, eh?
11:20:58  <Ammler> answer the question, do you support loading newgrf in a running game?
11:21:17  <Ammler> :-)
11:21:52  <Ammler> the whole discussion is useless, if you don't.
11:23:59  <planetmaker> That's solely an issue of OpenTTD and has nothing to do with me or you or newgrfs in particular
11:24:11  <planetmaker> and also not of grfdev or a makefile
11:24:19  <planetmaker> so: what is your goal?
11:24:25  <planetmaker> what do you want?
11:24:51  <planetmaker> (and I don't want to hear a solution, I want to hear what you want to achieve)
11:26:18  <planetmaker> and then the next step is: what do you *think* hinders you from reaching that goal
11:26:20  <Ammler> planetmaker: I would say 80% of all ps games have changed newgrfs in a running gam.
11:26:34  <planetmaker> and then the third step is: how do you think it could be solved
11:26:34  <Ammler> 100% of all mz and pz games
11:26:53  <DJNekkid> applying/changeing newgrfs in a running game does work ... most of the time
11:26:54  <planetmaker> Ammler, I know that. So what? What's the relation to the makefiles of mine?
11:27:07  <planetmaker> I see 0% relation.
11:27:24  <DJNekkid> if i change, lets say, something in the 2cc set
11:27:26  <Ammler> that is OT :-)
11:27:33  <planetmaker> arg.
11:27:37  <DJNekkid> i "make", copy it to the data-folder, and press "apply"
11:27:45  <DJNekkid> and the changes is made
11:28:05  <Ammler> I was just wondering about you saying, we don't support changing newgrfs :-P
11:28:05  <DJNekkid> but if the filename or placeing of that file changes, it wont be reflected in the game as the prev line does
11:28:23  <DJNekkid> and that seem to be the entire issue here
11:28:30  <planetmaker> not helpful, Ammler
11:28:37  <planetmaker> :(
11:29:01  <planetmaker> Only thing I learnt so far: you're dis-satisfied with *some* aspect of the makefile. I don't know why.
11:30:11  <Ammler> planetmaker: I am sorry, if you feel that way :-(
11:30:15  <planetmaker> then you tried to trap me in some pointless side-discussion... , not addressing your need, but only stating basically "doesn't work, if you do this". But not stating _what_ actually doesn't work.
11:31:18  <planetmaker> I really would like to understand. But then I need to understand your need. And not get a proposed solution for *something*.
11:31:26  <Ammler> maybe if andy will explain you his issue, you are open to listen.
11:32:03  <planetmaker> I'm open to listen to you, too. Of course
11:32:25  <Ammler> and if that will fail either, I will open a bug report next time I am trapped with.
11:32:27  <planetmaker> But when exactly what exact problem you have, I don't get.
11:33:01  <planetmaker> But please make a problem description. Not (only) a proposed solution.
11:33:09  <planetmaker> I can only guess.
11:33:24  <Ammler> that is what I did around 3 times here
11:33:39  <planetmaker> My guess is, that you want within a running game to update your newgrf to a newer version of the very same newgrf.
11:33:49  <DJNekkid> !
11:33:55  <planetmaker> e.g. not removing one and adding the newer one.
11:34:06  <DJNekkid> ^^
11:34:09  <Ammler> well, your Makefile doesn't remove
11:34:10  <planetmaker> But that's only an educated guess as I kinda think I know what you try
11:34:22  <planetmaker> use make clean
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11:35:14  <Ammler> your make install is the only one I know, which installs in versioned mode.
11:35:30  <Ammler> usually you overwrite the older version with install
11:35:31  <planetmaker> install boost.
11:35:36  <planetmaker> install idl
11:35:45  <Ammler> nono
11:35:55  <planetmaker> install anything where older versions make sense. They change the symlink
11:35:57  <Ammler> that is like nars -> nars2
11:36:04  <planetmaker> boost -> boost_1_39_0
11:36:10  <planetmaker> but I still have boost_1_38_0
11:36:11  <planetmaker> etc
11:36:16  <planetmaker> just not sym-linked
11:36:53  <Ammler> well, install openttd :P
11:36:55  <planetmaker> or gcc
11:37:06  <planetmaker> or numerous others. They all only symlink
11:37:48  <Ammler> that is all not true, but
11:38:03  <Ammler> maybe it is on OSX, I don't have much experience
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11:38:59  <planetmaker> well... if you have a dev environment with several, you usually do that.
11:39:57  <planetmaker> btw: suse does exactly that:lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root      7 2008-12-01 18:44 /usr/bin/gcc -> gcc-4.3
11:39:57  <planetmaker> -rwxr-xr-x 1 root root 210784 2008-06-06 20:43 /usr/bin/gcc-4.3
11:40:33  <planetmaker> your turn ;)
11:40:35  <Ammler> planetmaker: yes
11:40:44  <Ammler> but if you update to 4.3.something
11:41:03  <Ammler> it does overwrite 4.3.x with 4.3.something
11:41:03  <planetmaker> it'd keep it, if I'd install gcc 4.4
11:41:20  <planetmaker> it'd not keep bug fix releases
11:41:57  <planetmaker> even so, asked a 3rd(?) time: what's the actual issue?
11:41:58  <Ammler> well, nvm., that is OT, either.
11:42:32  <Ammler> what didn't you get on the scenario I made?
11:43:39  <Ammler> anyway, the issue is just an issue, if you accept support for changing grfs in a running game. ;-)
11:44:28  <planetmaker> so... what you want is to overwrite the newgrf by name etc pp so that in a _running_ game the newgrf updates?
11:44:36  <planetmaker> not just upon map load?
11:44:52  <Ammler> but on the other side, IMO, the Makefile should be mainly for dev
11:45:01  <planetmaker> yes, it should
11:45:31  <planetmaker> others don't need it.
11:45:53  <Ammler> and for dev, you need "manual" work
11:46:00  <Ammler> with moving and renaming, now.
11:46:21  <planetmaker> the makefile is there to make things for you. But still: what do you want:
11:46:41  <Ammler> I mean, that is ok, can be done by script, I just don't see the need for 1000 different versions of the same grf in my data folder
11:47:05  <planetmaker> to have openttd use automagically the new version by just hitting apply in the newgrf window of a running game without changing anything in the newgrf list?
11:47:21  <Ammler> a dev needs openttd to load always the newest grf
11:47:33  <planetmaker> Ammler, in order to remove the 1000 different versions, use make clean. That's what it is for
11:47:49  <planetmaker> it cleans all nightlies
11:47:52  <planetmaker> but not stables.
11:47:57  <Ammler> make clean doe cleanup the install folder?
11:48:04  <planetmaker> no.
11:48:09  <Ammler> that is kinda ugly :-o
11:48:10  <planetmaker> But you symlinked, didn't you? ;)
11:48:46  <Ammler> that is my "workaround" and what I suggested andy.
11:49:03  <Ammler> but IMO, the makefile could support it.
11:49:27  <Ammler> who will need make install then?
11:49:38  <planetmaker> no one :P
11:50:00  <Ammler> yes, so why not changing that behavior to make it useable for dev?
11:50:26  <planetmaker> so... usable = folder path doesn't bear revision name?
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11:50:55  <planetmaker> may the tar names be different?
11:51:15  <planetmaker> e.g. revision13.tar/blub/mynew.grf
11:51:21  <planetmaker> revision14.tar/blub/mynew.grf?
11:52:38  <Ammler> hmm, isn't that the point?
11:53:02  <Ammler> if the tar is different, but the folder inside the same, if won't be loaded from openttd
11:53:22  <Ammler> so it needs to replace the old buggy version :-)
11:53:22  <planetmaker> it will... maybe. Dunno which :)
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11:53:47  <planetmaker> so... you want make to overwrite a file called mygrf-nightly.tar/path/my.grf ?
11:54:07  <planetmaker> with path being the same w/o revision and the tar also w/o the revision?
11:54:09  <planetmaker> hm...
11:54:36  <Ammler> well, if you really need, you could add nightly or dev
11:55:00  <planetmaker> well. As long as the name stays the same, that's details.
11:55:04  <planetmaker> But not the issue ;)
11:55:13  <Ammler> name?
11:55:45  <Ammler> imo, we should care, that "our" version will be loaded beside bananas grfs
11:55:46  <planetmaker> whether the tar file is called heqs.tar or heqs-nightly.tar or heqs-dev.tar
11:55:53  <Ammler> but ONE, only.
11:56:17  <planetmaker> hm...
11:56:32  <Ammler> for save compatibilty, you still have the bananas
11:56:47  <planetmaker> I'll think about it :)
11:56:58  <planetmaker> Now I finally understand what you mean.
11:57:01  <planetmaker> and why.
11:57:05  <Ammler> and if someone liek you will keep 1000 different versions, he/you could make a special target for :P
11:57:13  <planetmaker> :P
11:57:22  <planetmaker> indeed one could
11:57:30  <planetmaker> make unique
11:57:32  <planetmaker> ;)
11:57:45  <Ammler> but the make or make install should make a easy one.
11:57:57  <planetmaker> Please add a task ;)
11:58:16  <Ammler> seriously?
11:58:23  <planetmaker> yes
11:58:25  <Ammler> bu
11:58:30  <planetmaker> Then I don't forget :P
11:58:46  <planetmaker> you know... my memory has serious similarities with sieves ;)
11:59:02  <planetmaker> and assigned tasks make me feel important :P
11:59:15  <Ammler> we could add the revision to the readme, like in opengfx
11:59:41  <Ammler> and we should also add the revision changelog
11:59:47  <Ammler> like the openttd compile farm
12:00:07  <Ammler> not sure, if that should be done by makefile or the compile farm
12:00:48  <planetmaker> the revision will remain in the displayed part of the newgrf. That what the user sees when in OpenTTD
12:00:56  <planetmaker> Of course, readme should have it, too, yes
12:01:18  <Ammler> yes, that is the revision which counts
12:01:30  <Ammler> but there should be access to it without need of loading in openttd
12:01:36  <Ammler> like ./findversion.sh
12:02:13  <Ammler> ignore last line.
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13:00:16  <Brot6> ::DevZone:: #openttdcoop - Bug #215: Makefile shouldn't include release info to the file path (per default) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/215 (by Ammler)
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14:04:02  <Brot6> 2cctrainset: Backup push to ssh://hg@bitbucket.org/OpenTTD/2cctrainset/ initiated.
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16:18:02  <Brot6> OpenGFX: nightly compile not needed. (r72)
16:38:28  <Brot6> ::DevZone:: World Airliners Set - Feature #214: the P-list looks quite boring ... gray :) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/214#change-465 (by Frank)
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17:02:20  <Beardie> Hello, Ammler is there any way of puttinh a table on a wiki page?
17:09:40  <Ammler> Beardie: did you check the help?
17:10:04  <Ammler> maybe it would go with html tags, but don't know
17:15:26  <Beardie> Check the help, well on your site you dont have a wiki page on making a wiki page :p
17:15:42  <Beardie> "there was meant to be a ? after the word help"
17:18:16  <Ammler> there is: https://redmine.ammler.ch/help/wiki_syntax.html
17:18:22  <Ammler> but I didn't find something about
17:18:37  <Ammler> so it might be not possible
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17:21:17  <Beardie> again it hates https :p
17:22:30  <Beardie> well you see why i would like it here
17:22:31  <Beardie> http://redmine.ammler.ch/projects/worldairlineset/wiki/Hex_Table
17:22:39  <Beardie> but its ok if i can't have it
17:24:28  <Hirundo> What can such a table do that \b \w and \d can't?
17:25:42  <planetmaker> hehe :)
17:25:48  <Beardie> probably not mush lol
17:25:51  <Beardie> much*
17:26:02  <Beardie> bur i some times forget hex numbers
17:26:25  <planetmaker> I think the point is: if you need it, use \b straight away as you'll have difficulties to understand it afterwards, if you convert it.
17:26:55  <Beardie> i like hex though :p
17:27:02  <planetmaker> and you can always use \b64 instead of 0x40
17:27:20  <Hirundo> @calc 0x40
17:27:20  <Webster> Hirundo: 64
17:27:27  <Hirundo> @hex 64
17:27:43  <planetmaker> @base 16 10 64
17:27:43  <Webster> planetmaker: 100
17:27:47  <planetmaker> hm...
17:27:52  <planetmaker> @base 10 16 64
17:27:52  <Webster> planetmaker: 40
17:27:52  <Hirundo> @base 10 16 64
17:27:53  <Webster> Hirundo: 40
17:27:57  <planetmaker> :)
17:28:06  <Beardie> ok you have proven me wrong, but the table is there now :p
17:28:26  * Hirundo hurrays and fetches a cookie ;)
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17:31:30  <Ammler> Beardie: using hex is geeky
17:31:34  <Beardie> lol
17:31:49  <Ammler> try to use escape sequences
17:32:14  <Beardie> sd
17:32:18  <Beardie> ?
17:32:28  <Beardie> my messages where not appearing then
17:32:34  <Beardie> any way
17:32:37  <Beardie> like /b etc
17:32:45  <Hirundo> \b
17:32:50  <Beardie> lol
17:32:57  <Beardie>  /b etc
17:33:02  <Beardie> lol
17:33:04  <Beardie> \
17:33:07  <Beardie> that symbol
17:33:16  <Hirundo> don't confuse
17:33:24  <Hirundo>  / and \
17:33:41  <Beardie> yes off course
17:33:52  <Beardie> anyway got to go, be back later
17:34:09  <Hirundo> don't confuse of and off, while you're at it ;)
17:34:13  <Ammler> http://wiki.ttdpatch.net/tiki-index.php?page=GRFActionsDetailed <-- read that page
17:34:55  <Ammler> you should remove your wiki page, so nobody get the idea to use it ;-)
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17:40:06  <Brot6> ::DevZone:: OpenGFX - Feature #119: Sprite 270:270 (1) - Company statue @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/119#change-466 (by foobar)
17:48:30  <Ammler> is it somehow possible to replace a sprite of an other grf?
17:53:28  <Hirundo> As george how he made his censored version of LV4
17:53:36  <Hirundo> *As->Ask
17:54:12  <Ammler> no
17:54:22  <Ammler> you don't need to load both :P
17:55:10  <Ammler> I am not sure anymore, if we should make opengfx matching the openttd.grf
17:55:38  <Ammler> or just make a proper coded tar for 32bpp people
18:04:18  <Ammler> BTW. wiki has much more as it is linked from the help page: http://hobix.com/textile/#tables
18:04:19  <Webster> Title: Textile Reference (at hobix.com)
18:04:29  <Ammler> Beardie: ^
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19:07:42  <Brot6> ::DevZone:: OpenGFX - Feature #208: Reorder ogfx_extra to keep sprite numbers equal to openttdw.grf to suppor... @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/208#change-467 (by foobar)
19:07:42  <Brot6> ::DevZone:: Infrastructure Sharing - Feature #217: Network Design Support and Experience System in OpenTTDcoo... @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/217 (by Phazorx)
19:13:14  <Brot6> ::DevZone:: World Airliners Set - Revision 134: Added Take off/Lnading/Taxing and Waiting Speed @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/worldairlineset/repository/revisions/134 (by Beardie27)
19:18:10  <Brot6> ::DevZone:: World Airliners Set - Feature #214: the P-list looks quite boring ... gray :) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/214#change-468 (by Beardie27)
19:18:10  <Brot6> ::DevZone:: World Airliners Set - Feature #188 (Assigned): Add Landing and take off Speeds to existing aircraft @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/188#change-469 (by Beardie27)
19:20:21  <Brot6> ::DevZone:: OpenTTD - Feature #217: Network Design Support and Experience System in OpenTTDcoop [draft][WIP] @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/217 (by Phazorx)
19:20:21  <Brot6> ::DevZone:: OpenTTD - Feature #217: Network Design Support and Experience System in OpenTTDcoop [draft][WIP] @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/217#change-471 (by Hirundo)
19:20:26  <DJNekkid> Beardie: do u know how to do that?
19:23:32  <Ammler> Hirundo: moved it out ;-)
19:24:53  <Beardie> DJNekkid do what again?
19:25:14  <DJNekkid> 188
19:25:16  <DJNekkid> #188
19:25:41  <Beardie> Well me a and frank have worked it out mostly
19:25:46  <Beardie> Callback 36
19:25:49  <Beardie> Fractional Speed
19:25:49  <DJNekkid> yes :)
19:26:12  <Beardie> Works like the E2 var, sprites at different positions
19:26:19  <DJNekkid> not really sprites
19:26:26  <Beardie> well no
19:26:28  <DJNekkid> E2 00 FF etc...
19:26:37  <DJNekkid> <speed> 80 <pos> <pos>
19:26:38  <Hirundo> Ammler: apart from all the coding difficulties, solving social non-problems with code is not-done IMO
19:26:44  <Beardie> different positions with different speeds
19:27:24  <Beardie> AF 80 12 12 //Tower contact Point (Initiating Approach)
19:27:34  <DJNekkid> i'll show you a bit later, kinda busy now
19:27:40  <Beardie> how does the AF work?
19:27:44  <Beardie> ok thats fine :)
19:28:01  <Beardie> no rush got other things to do
19:31:09  <Ammler> Beardie: did you get the link about tables in the wiki?
19:31:20  <Ammler> Hirundo: I didn't read it yet ;-)
19:31:25  <Ammler> just moved it away
19:31:43  <Ammler> but it seems, I was too late, you already answered ;-)
19:32:30  <Brot6> ::DevZone:: World Airliners Set - Revision 135: Fixed #213 - Concorde Sprite Missalignment, Greyscale.png/pcx... @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/worldairlineset/repository/revisions/135 (by Beardie27)
19:32:30  <Brot6> ::DevZone:: World Airliners Set - Bug #213 (Closed): Concorde Sprite Missalignment @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/213#change-472 (by Beardie27)
19:36:04  <Brot6> ::DevZone:: World Airliners Set - Revision 132: Fixed #199 - Correctly Sorted B717-200 Greyscale.png Hence Added @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/worldairlineset/repository/revisions/132 (by Beardie27)
19:36:04  <Brot6> ::DevZone:: World Airliners Set - Feature #199 (Closed): Sort Boeing 717 Greyscale @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/199#change-462 (by Beardie27)
19:51:21  <Brot6> ::DevZone:: OpenGFX - Feature #208: Reorder ogfx_extra to keep sprite numbers equal to openttdw.grf to suppor... @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/208#change-474 (by Ammler)
20:01:38  <Beardie> Ammler serve errors
20:01:42  <Beardie> we cna't connect
20:01:44  <Beardie> me or frank
20:02:25  <Beardie> hg pull -u = "no suitable repsonse from remote hg!"
20:03:11  <Ammler> try again?
20:03:27  <Beardie> works
20:03:28  <Beardie> now
20:03:37  <Beardie> i have had this message twice today
20:03:48  <Beardie> once about 1 and hlaf hours ago
20:03:58  <Beardie> still doesn't work for frank
20:05:42  <Beardie> now it works for frank
20:05:49  <Beardie> so what happen ammler ?
20:06:23  <Ammler> reaching some limits, it seems
20:06:28  <Ammler> checking what can cause it
20:06:30  <Beardie> o ok
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20:10:57  <Brot6> ::DevZone:: World Airliners Set - Revision 136: Started concorde speeds @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/worldairlineset/repository/revisions/136 (by Frank)
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20:35:35  <Phazorx> evening
20:36:02  <Phazorx> Hirundo: #217 does not really have to do much with IS as of yet, i just put it in wrong place, thanks to ammler it is fixed
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20:52:49  <Brot6> ::DevZone:: OpenGFX - Feature #208 (Feedback): Reorder ogfx_extra to keep sprite numbers equal to openttdw.gr... @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/208#change-478 (by foobar)
20:53:51  <Beardie> Hello, i am having a problem with some code
20:54:07  <Beardie> i ran it thought renum and turn one of my lins into a comment
20:54:21  <Beardie> by adding // at the beginning of the line
20:54:47  <planetmaker> Beardie: where? Current was checkout?
20:55:10  <Beardie> current was checkout?
20:55:16  <Beardie> don't understand
20:55:26  <planetmaker> your was repository
20:55:41  <planetmaker> the current state of the newgrf as I can download using mercurial :)
20:56:03  <planetmaker> was = world airline set
20:56:08  <planetmaker> sorry :)
20:56:29  <Beardie> well the file is not in the repo
20:56:33  <planetmaker> a bit ambigeous abbreviation :)
20:56:34  <Beardie> i used a batch file to make it
20:56:41  <planetmaker> oh, right...
20:56:51  <planetmaker> hm... that won't work here, I guess
20:56:53  <Beardie> want my to put the resorted NFO on
20:57:05  <Beardie> i'll put it on
20:57:16  <Ammler> Beardie: there should be above that line a explaination, why it is wrong
20:57:31  <Beardie> onw minute
20:57:49  <Ammler> and you shouldn't use too many -w
20:58:51  <planetmaker> actually... best use none ;)
20:59:28  <andythenorth> hey hey planetmaker is back :)
20:59:47  <Beardie> WAS Repo sprites\was.nfo.new.nfo line 1807
20:59:51  <Beardie> There
20:59:54  <Beardie> its now online
21:00:39  <Beardie> :)
21:00:54  <planetmaker> I'll check
21:00:57  <Beardie> ty
21:01:29  <planetmaker> yeay. mercurial errors
21:02:19  <Beardie> that a good thing? lol
21:02:19  <andythenorth> Hirundo: so would it be useful if I added HP, weight etc to HEQS?  I could do a couple of vehicles pretty quickly.
21:02:42  <planetmaker> Beardie: certainly not :)
21:03:03  <planetmaker> basically I couldn't update your repository
21:03:20  <Beardie> ok
21:03:29  <planetmaker> but I'm not giving up
21:03:33  <planetmaker> not yet
21:03:35  <Phazorx> planetmaker: can you enlighten me on IS2 features?
21:04:30  <planetmaker> Phazorx: well... you now have the option to allow other companies to use your infrastructure. You can allow it to individual companies.
21:05:08  <Phazorx> that's where it was 2 years ago more or less
21:05:10  <planetmaker> Configurable are rails, stations (all types), docks, depots and airport access
21:05:25  <planetmaker> yes, that's what it's now. But per company and WAY better code
21:05:27  <Phazorx> ahh.. so it is per station now rather than per company?
21:05:31  <planetmaker> no
21:05:34  <planetmaker> per company
21:05:48  <Phazorx> is it possible to take ownership of a structure?
21:05:50  <planetmaker> but you could allow others to use your tracks only, but not your stations
21:05:53  <planetmaker> nope
21:06:00  <Phazorx> are things like that planned?
21:06:18  <planetmaker> not till it is in trunk.
21:06:26  <Phazorx> is it trunkable?
21:06:30  <planetmaker> so basically not :)
21:06:40  <planetmaker> Phazorx: that you have to ask the devs.
21:06:47  <Phazorx> arent you the dev?
21:06:48  <planetmaker> it's IMO well coded
21:07:01  <planetmaker> No, Hirundo codes the patch.
21:07:06  <Phazorx> i see
21:07:35  <Phazorx> i can see some uses for thigns changing owners
21:07:44  <planetmaker> and "the devs" of OpenTTD have to judge whether it's trunk worthy. That's not up to Hirundo either.
21:07:47  <Phazorx> especialy applied to coop ideas
21:07:54  <planetmaker> Phazorx: so can we. But it's not essential
21:07:54  <Phazorx> i understand
21:08:12  <planetmaker> and minimal patches are easier to maintain and easier to make trunk-worthy.
21:08:14  <Phazorx> well nothing is essentialy... aside of steam bubles on steam engines
21:08:31  <planetmaker> So basically it will stay as minimal as sensibly possible
21:09:03  <planetmaker> Doesn't mean it's a bad idea, though. It could be coded as an add-on patch to the existing repo. Using hg queues.
21:09:46  <Phazorx> that would be nice
21:09:59  <planetmaker> but the usual *someone* would have to do it :P
21:10:17  <Phazorx> well it is not defined yet what is to be done
21:10:45  <Hirundo> andythenorth: If you could provide me with a couple of vehicles to test with,it would be very nice
21:10:53  <Beardie> Sorry to interrept any more info Planetmaker?
21:10:58  <planetmaker> Beardie: somehow my mercurial has a problem with your repo. I cannot get a checkout
21:11:03  <Brot6> ::DevZone:: World Airliners Set - Bug #218: Concorde CallBack 36 Fatal Error @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/218 (by Beardie27)
21:11:04  <planetmaker> And it's too late today for me to update hg.
21:11:10  <Beardie> ok
21:11:12  <DJNekkid> Beardie: want to change the running cost depending on height as well?
21:11:19  <DJNekkid> for example, lower when standing still on the ground
21:11:24  <Beardie> DJ emm
21:11:26  <Beardie> DJJJJJJ
21:11:30  <Beardie> not got time for that now lol
21:11:39  <Beardie> your throwing to many things at me lol
21:11:45  <DJNekkid> not really
21:11:47  <DJNekkid> it's basicly the same thing
21:12:00  <Beardie> well we haeva  error with the speed
21:12:12  <DJNekkid> im currently looking into it, makeing some code for you :)
21:12:20  <Beardie> ok line 1807 then?
21:12:34  <DJNekkid> sec
21:12:40  <Phazorx> are you talking about planes guys?
21:12:46  <DJNekkid> yes
21:12:49  <Beardie> yep
21:13:02  <Phazorx> long tinme ago i suggested a feature
21:13:13  <Phazorx> which i think is nice and quite implementable
21:13:20  <DJNekkid> shout!
21:13:38  <Phazorx> http://bugs.openttd.org/task/773
21:13:56  <DJNekkid> i wish!
21:14:02  <DJNekkid> i've had that as a wish as well
21:14:09  <planetmaker> it's about what's possible by current newgrfs...
21:14:29  <DJNekkid> but dalestan had an idea once, but i never did get to look at it
21:14:43  <DJNekkid> but anyway Beardie ... do you want to add running costs to the different heights as well?
21:14:58  <Beardie> well i don't know
21:15:03  <Phazorx> and diff fuel consumption :)
21:15:18  <Beardie> yeah maybe
21:15:21  <DJNekkid> oki
21:15:26  <Phazorx> i do want range tho
21:15:36  *** Beardie has quit IRC
21:15:42  <Phazorx> i tihnk it is worthy idea and will add variety t plane usage
21:16:00  <Phazorx> especially with paxdest
21:16:22  *** Beardie has joined #openttdcoop.devzone
21:16:25  <Beardie> back
21:16:57  <Beardie> also guys what about this error http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=31&t=37362
21:16:58  <Webster> Title: Transport Tycoon Forums View topic - Autorenew and variable F2 (at www.tt-forums.net)
21:17:06  <Beardie> they suggest a small fix but i am not to sure
21:17:11  <Brot6> ::DevZone:: World Airliners Set - Feature #211 (Closed): JAS MD-81 @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/211#change-480 (by FaddyPainter)
21:19:19  <DJNekkid> http://redmine.ammler.ch/issues/188
21:20:01  <Beardie> thanks
21:20:06  <Beardie> one more thing before you go
21:20:11  <DJNekkid> scream!
21:20:14  <Beardie> speed
21:20:15  *** andythenorth has quit IRC
21:20:21  <Beardie> and cost how is that set?
21:20:25  <Beardie> mph/8
21:20:41  <DJNekkid> well
21:20:49  <DJNekkid> a speed of 01 is 8mph
21:20:55  <Beardie> yes
21:21:01  <DJNekkid> a speed of d10 is 80mph :)
21:21:09  <Beardie> d10?
21:21:12  <DJNekkid> decimal
21:21:19  <Frankr> right
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21:21:36  <DJNekkid> a speed of x50 is 640mph
21:21:38  <DJNekkid> or kmh
21:21:40  <DJNekkid> or whatever :)
21:21:59  <Beardie> can you type x50?
21:22:05  <Beardie> also DJ you see our error
21:22:09  <DJNekkid> you dont need x50
21:22:15  <Beardie> line 1807 in was.nfo.new.nfo
21:22:15  <DJNekkid> it is hex by default :)
21:22:19  <DJNekkid> i saw that
21:22:20  <Beardie> ok
21:22:26  <Beardie> why did it do it?
21:22:40  <DJNekkid> because you could in that case basicly just delete the first occurance
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21:22:55  <Brot6> ::DevZone:: World Airliners Set - Feature #188: Add Landing and take off Speeds to existing aircraft @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/188#change-481 (by DJNekkid)
21:23:10  <DJNekkid> btw
21:23:20  <DJNekkid> want me to put that code in a file, and upload it?
21:23:27  <Frankr> yh plz
21:23:29  <DJNekkid> that seemed to break "space"'es
21:23:41  <Beardie> emm no we want to try it for learning purposes
21:23:47  <Beardie> ok
21:23:50  <Beardie> go on
21:23:51  <Beardie> lol
21:24:09  <Beardie> We only need one callback for both?
21:24:19  <Frankr> so we can refer to it, if we get completly stuck again
21:25:36  <Frankr> DJ how do u know all of this? lol
21:25:51  <DJNekkid> trial and error, and the 2cc set
21:25:55  <DJNekkid> :p
21:26:33  <Frankr> u seem to know basically everythin it's nice to know when we get baffled we know we got u
21:26:43  <Frankr> :)
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21:28:29  <DJNekkid> there you go
21:28:55  <DJNekkid> pushed a txt-file
21:29:03  <DJNekkid> btw Frankr...
21:29:18  <DJNekkid> i started nfo codeing about newyear a year and a half ago
21:29:23  <DJNekkid> from scratch
21:29:44  <DJNekkid> did get the most basics
21:29:50  <DJNekkid> then i needed to "do more"
21:29:53  <DJNekkid> and i tested
21:29:54  <DJNekkid> and tested
21:29:55  <DJNekkid> and tested
21:29:57  <DJNekkid> and tested
21:30:19  <Frankr> right
21:30:25  <DJNekkid> and suddenly things worked without me understanding why it worked, but it worked, so i copy/pasted the working stuff to other trains
21:30:37  <DJNekkid> and at some point i started to understand what i actually did
21:30:42  <DJNekkid> and tbh, thats not very very long ago
21:30:53  <DJNekkid> this last easter or so :)
21:31:30  <Beardie> Well Dj we are thinking of putting some of this info into our wiki
21:31:53  <Beardie> the variables for different sprites at different positions
21:32:00  <Brot6> ::DevZone:: World Airliners Set - Revision 138: more howtos - callback36 @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/worldairlineset/repository/revisions/138 (by DJ Nekkid)
21:32:00  <Brot6> ::DevZone:: World Airliners Set - Revision 139: merge @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/worldairlineset/repository/revisions/139 (by DJ Nekkid)
21:32:01  <Beardie> so it can help people
21:32:08  <DJNekkid> planes are nothing compared to trains!
21:32:15  <Beardie> lol and merge?
21:32:39  <DJNekkid> it complained, so i merged something... dunno why...
21:33:00  <DJNekkid> i can (probably) a lot about nfo, but this mecurial i dont have the hang of yet
21:33:32  <Beardie> i was goign to add a wiki page on merging
21:33:37  <planetmaker> DJNekkid: you must have edited an old copy then :)
21:34:03  <planetmaker> Beardie: you have many files in the repo which don't really belong there IMO
21:34:03  <DJNekkid> wierd tbh
21:34:16  <Beardie> which files?
21:34:31  <DJNekkid> i hg pull -u'ed about 5 minutes before i edited ... well ... added the txt-file
21:35:04  <Beardie> ?
21:35:15  <Beardie> which files don;t belong?
21:35:39  <planetmaker> hm... I thought I saw some thumbs.DB or alike
21:35:44  <planetmaker> but I don't find it anymore
21:36:10  <Beardie> i added a .hgignore for that :D
21:36:21  <Beardie> i learned something :D
21:36:31  <Beardie> but i still think some are there
21:36:34  <planetmaker> well. that's fine. But it must not be in the repo either. That's two different things :)
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21:36:55  <planetmaker> nvm, though. I seem to err here
21:37:09  <planetmaker> I don't find any obviously "wrong" files
21:37:19  <DJNekkid> Beardie and Frankr: have a look at this one:
21:37:20  <DJNekkid> http://redmine.ammler.ch/projects/dutchtrainset/repository/revisions/13/entry/sprites/nfo/10mus/irm.nfo
21:37:33  <planetmaker> the only thing strange is that everything is in a subdir, though. That doesn't make sense to me :)
21:37:34  <Beardie> its been fixed planetmaker DJNekkid is here :)
21:37:49  <planetmaker> hehe :)
21:38:21  <DJNekkid> or this one:
21:38:22  <DJNekkid> http://redmine.ammler.ch/projects/dutchtrainset/repository/entry/sprites/nfo/10mus/icm.nfo
21:38:42  <DJNekkid> planes are easy :P
21:39:05  <Frankr> right
21:39:07  <DJNekkid> and the ICM needs a complete revrite btw :p
21:39:11  <planetmaker> I hate the filenames with space, though
21:39:28  <planetmaker> and brackets
21:39:32  <planetmaker> even more :)
21:39:41  <Frankr> lol
21:39:46  <DJNekkid> dots or underscores at most!
21:39:52  <planetmaker> yep
21:40:05  <planetmaker> (2) Zeppelin NT
21:40:08  <Frankr> right well i'm glad we're doin planes
21:40:11  <planetmaker> ^^ that has everything, though
21:40:29  <DJNekkid> no dots or underscores!
21:40:43  <Beardie> what wrong with that?
21:40:54  <Beardie> i cahnge to files if you want
21:41:32  <planetmaker> it's terrible to type and bound to make problems in certain cases.
21:41:40  <Beardie> use tab
21:41:42  <Beardie> tab tab
21:41:42  <Beardie> tab
21:41:45  <Beardie> :
21:41:57  <planetmaker> yeah. I need to type \(3 <tab>
21:42:02  <Beardie> no
21:42:11  <Beardie> just press taba  couple of times
21:42:14  <planetmaker> but! not every programme can handle it smoothly on all plattforms
21:42:15  <Beardie> its not hard
21:42:33  <Beardie> well i can edit out all the spaces in all files if you want?
21:42:34  <planetmaker> I've seen more than once programmes which choke on these kind of filenames.
21:42:44  <planetmaker> Your newgrf :) Your choice.
21:42:48  <Beardie> lol
21:42:53  <Beardie> well these files are just pngs
21:43:01  <Beardie> they are not used for the grf directly
21:43:06  <planetmaker> they're also dir names
21:43:08  <Beardie> the pcx files i make have no sapces in
21:43:15  <Beardie> i know
21:43:20  <Beardie> i need to sort that actually
21:43:23  <planetmaker> same applies there, of course
21:43:30  <DJNekkid> planetmaker: ready for a complete rewrite of the 2cc set this summer btw?
21:43:37  <Beardie> i am going to rearrange everyhting actually tomorrow :)
21:43:39  <DJNekkid> and realigning?
21:43:42  <planetmaker> uh... big project, DJNekkid :)
21:43:50  <Beardie> realigning?
21:43:55  <planetmaker> re-aligning
21:44:24  <DJNekkid> well
21:44:35  <planetmaker> DJNekkid: not sure how much time I have...
21:44:37  <DJNekkid> with a template for the mus can _most_ of them be a cut'n'paste
21:45:13  <planetmaker> hehe.
21:45:26  <planetmaker> I'm just trying to create a template makefile
21:45:47  <planetmaker> when that's sorted, it should be easier to add the same changes to all newgrfs, if desired
21:46:02  <planetmaker> and then we could also go with the templates maybe
21:46:41  <DJNekkid> and with the framework for the preprocessor we are more or less good to go
21:47:09  <planetmaker> yup. But the latter will need to be established
21:47:22  <DJNekkid> thats not my job tbh :p
21:47:27  <DJNekkid> but, nn :)
21:47:27  <Beardie> Sorry Dj did you fix line 1807? or will your new code do that?
21:47:28  <planetmaker> :P
21:49:51  <Ammler> planetmaker: i thought about using awk to prefare the *#defines"
21:50:06  <planetmaker> Ammler: something I thought of, too :)
21:50:34  <planetmaker> though sed, awk of gcc doesn't really matter, if it works.
21:50:36  <Ammler> <id_something>: "string soemthing" -> awk -> #define ID_SOMET.. "STRING"
21:50:49  <planetmaker> I guess, actually, sed might be more up to the task than awk, though
21:51:00  <planetmaker> ah... you mean pre-processing that.
21:51:13  <Ammler> pre preprocessing :-)
21:51:17  <planetmaker> :)
21:51:26  <planetmaker> especially for languages that might make sense
21:52:46  <Ammler> DJNekkid: echo "Hallo Welt" | awk '{ print }' <-- can you run that on your ssystem?
21:55:44  <Ammler> btw, did you guys realize the nice wiki page from FooBar_ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/home/wiki/Writing_Commit_Messages
21:56:41  <FooBar_> [23:55]	nice wiki page <-- thanks! :)
21:56:48  <planetmaker> not yet.
21:56:51  * planetmaker goes looking
21:57:07  <planetmaker> awesome! :)
21:59:49  <planetmaker> anyway. good night for today :)
21:59:57  <Osai> night pm
21:59:58  <Osai> :)
22:00:16  <planetmaker> oh osai :) hi and bye :)
22:01:34  <FooBar_> thanks pm. And goodnight!
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22:11:35  <Beardie> Back Sorry DJNekkid You There?
22:11:45  <Beardie> O wait doesn't matter actually
22:11:54  <Beardie> ignore that :)
22:24:03  *** Beardie has quit IRC
22:25:53  <Brot6> ::DevZone:: World Airliners Set - Revision 140: Basic Speed and Costs for Concorde @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/worldairlineset/repository/revisions/140 (by Frank)
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22:53:21  <Brot6> ::DevZone:: World Airliners Set - Feature #220: Rearrange All files and folders in repo for better structure @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/220 (by Beardie27)
22:56:18  <Brot6> ::DevZone:: World Airliners Set - Revision 141: Added MD81 Japan Air Systems.png @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/worldairlineset/repository/revisions/141 (by Beardie27)
23:18:48  <Brot6> ::DevZone:: World Airliners Set - Revision 142: Further improvements on Concorde nfo (Speeds) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/worldairlineset/repository/revisions/142 (by Frank)
23:21:25  <Brot6> ::DevZone:: World Airliners Set - Bug #218 (Closed): Concorde CallBack 36 Fatal Error @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/218#change-483 (by Frank)
23:34:45  <Brot6> ::DevZone:: World Airliners Set - Feature #220 (Assigned): Rearrange All files and folders in repo for better... @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/220#change-484 (by Beardie27)
23:34:46  <Brot6> ::DevZone:: World Airliners Set - Feature #175 (Assigned): Redo Aer Lingus 737-200 @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/175#change-485 (by Beardie27)
23:36:54  <Brot6> ::DevZone:: World Airliners Set - Bug #221: Update Concorde's Fixed Co-ordinates @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/221 (by Frank)
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23:49:55  <Brot6> ::DevZone:: World Airliners Set - Revision 143: Set variable running costs to default on Concorde nfo @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/worldairlineset/repository/revisions/143 (by Frank)

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