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Log for #openttdcoop.devzone on 25th August 2009:
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01:33:45  <Brot6> Backup done! (Usage: 95M)
01:33:45  <Brot6> Look! A ladder! Maybe it leads to heaven, or a sandwich!
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02:32:00  <Leanden> u online?
02:32:55  <Leanden> Ammler
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05:33:43  <Brot6> ::DevZone:: 2cc train set - Feature #81: precompiler? @ https://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/81#change-1255 (by planetmaker)
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05:59:18  <Brot6> ::DevZone:: 2cc train set - Feature #81: precompiler? @ https://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/81#change-1256 (by planetmaker)
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06:09:11  <Brot6> ::DevZone:: 2cc train set - Feature #81: precompiler? @ https://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/81#change-1257 (by planetmaker)
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07:29:51  <FooBar> Hi all!
07:34:24  <Rubidium> sorry, no all here :(
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07:41:43  <FooBar> doesn't matter, I just wanted to say hi :)
07:46:17  <Rubidium> oh, in that case: hihi :)
08:02:15  <planetmaker> moin :-)
08:12:18  <ODM> morning guys
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10:08:58  <Leanden> Hey
10:09:00  <Leanden> ammler u there
10:26:31  <Ammler> I'm here, yes. :-)
10:28:13  <Ammler> Leanden: ^
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13:02:56  <Ammler> mäh, why do I get another md5sum for firs then the CF?
13:02:57  *** openttdcoop sets mode: +v Doorslammer
13:03:26  <Ammler> could someone else compile first and tell me the md5sum
13:03:36  <Ammler> firs*
13:07:48  <Ammler> now, that is strange, if I compile r213 on the server I got another md5sum, too.
13:08:55  <FooBar> 7b47a9a820405c67840ae29c2d7de215 *firs.grf
13:10:07  <Ammler> FooBar: that is another complete different md5sum
13:10:18  <Ammler> http://bundles.openttdcoop.org/download.php?file=firs/nightlies/firs-nightly-r213.md5
13:10:31  <Ammler> 8aabd0384e87a8b0c9177f9ba19be66c  firs.grf <-- mine
13:15:40  <Brot6> ::DevZone:: British Rail Set - Revision 0: Import: Framework for newgrf fron 'Example NewGRF project' @ https://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/brset/repository/revisions/0 (by planetmaker)
13:17:16  <Doorslammer> Crikey, that was quick
13:17:23  <Doorslammer> Wonder what it means
13:17:32  <planetmaker> Hi Doorslammer
13:17:37  <Doorslammer> Hello
13:17:44  <planetmaker> It means that I setup a project brset
13:17:53  <Doorslammer> Goodo
13:18:02  <planetmaker> I copied my newgrf framework for that purpose and adopted it to the name (as I saw fit)
13:18:11  <planetmaker> you can use that, if you make your project GPL
13:18:58  <Doorslammer> Super duper
13:19:10  <planetmaker> Contributers, who like to commit to this set, will need to supply Ammler or me with a public key.
13:19:32  <planetmaker> Beardie has one (as contributer to was) and can already submit.
13:19:36  <Doorslammer> Gotcha
13:20:15  <Ammler> planetmaker: the changelog has already content ;-)
13:20:27  <planetmaker> Ammler, ?
13:20:37  <Ammler> https://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/brset/repository/revisions/0/entry/docs/changelog.txt
13:20:46  <planetmaker> oh, it's the changelog of the newgrf project. :-)
13:20:50  <planetmaker> forgot to empty it.
13:21:20  <planetmaker> it was a simple "cp -r ../newgrf-makefile/* ." :-P
13:21:27  <planetmaker> that copied all kind of crap, too :-P
13:21:57  <planetmaker> I thought I removed everything, though. Obviously not :-) But that the maintainers can adopt when they start commiting.
13:22:04  <Ammler> maybe you should make a subfolder with the content to copy
13:22:21  <planetmaker> not needed, I think.
13:22:36  <planetmaker> Basically one should copy the whole repo in a clean state.
13:22:38  <Ammler> or special files for such things
13:22:48  <planetmaker> well... maybe without the pcx files...
13:23:02  <planetmaker> but I could remove them anyway. They're there for educational purposes :-)
13:23:06  <Ammler> well, the example is a good start
13:23:18  <Ammler> maybe using the template for mus from djn
13:23:20  <Brot6> ::DevZone:: New Monorail & Maglev TrainSet - Bug #499: Code new maglevs @ https://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/499 (by lawton27)
13:23:20  <Brot6> ::DevZone:: New Monorail & Maglev TrainSet - Bug #499: Code new maglevs @ https://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/499#change-1258 (by lawton27)
13:23:47  <planetmaker> I suggested to do that, yes
13:24:02  <planetmaker> Indeed it's an idea to add it to the Example Makefile project...
13:25:22  <Ammler> planetmaker: could you compile a firs tip
13:25:34  <planetmaker> yes. hold on
13:25:45  <Ammler> we have around 3 different md5sums already.
13:26:29  <planetmaker> ~/ottd/grfdev/firs> md5sum firs.grf
13:26:29  <planetmaker> 8aabd0384e87a8b0c9177f9ba19be66c  firs.grf
13:26:44  <planetmaker> (on suse)
13:26:50  <Ammler> hmm, same as here
13:26:52  <planetmaker> I cannot test mac
13:26:57  <Rubidium> does it use -c?
13:27:02  <Rubidium> (for grfcodec)
13:27:03  <planetmaker> yes, I think
13:27:10  <Ammler> default config doesn't
13:27:15  <planetmaker> err. let me check -C for gcc :-)
13:27:35  <planetmaker> yes, it does
13:27:47  <planetmaker> GRFCODEC_FLAGS = -e -c -p 2
13:27:56  <Rubidium> IIRC there was some bug with cropping in older versions, so that might cause different croppy and as such different grfs/md5s
13:27:58  <Ammler> ah there :-(
13:28:17  <planetmaker> Rubidium, can you define "older"?
13:28:17  <Ammler> CF does overwrite the flags without that.
13:28:30  <planetmaker> Ammler, why do you overwrite the flags?
13:28:38  <Rubidium> planetmaker: not HEAD
13:29:15  <Ammler> well, was used -q that was a reason
13:29:19  <Rubidium> but Ammler's: the CF doesn't have -c would probably be the cause for the differing md5 checksums
13:29:33  <Ammler> then I used -s for some time
13:29:46  <planetmaker> Rubidium, but if I have the same, it doesn't seem to make a difference. Does the CF have the md5sum as I posted?
13:30:02  <Ammler> no
13:30:14  <Rubidium> cf: 60
13:30:16  <Ammler> http://bundles.openttdcoop.org/download.php?file=firs/nightlies/firs-nightly-r213.md5
13:30:17  <Rubidium> pm: 8a
13:30:28  <Rubidium> fb: 7b
13:30:28  <planetmaker> hm, ok
13:30:42  <Ammler> is it save to use -c now?
13:30:47  <planetmaker> then it will be -c difference
13:31:06  <Ammler> wouldn't that hide pure white errors?
13:31:24  <Rubidium> Ammler: no, cause it only crops blue
13:32:07  <Ammler> shall I add that to the CF?
13:32:08  <Rubidium> I got 8a too
13:32:17  <Rubidium> FooBar: do you have local modifications?
13:32:50  <Ammler> 8a is a clean compile without -c then.
13:32:56  <planetmaker> with -c
13:33:03  <Rubidium> yeah, having local modifications causes 7b...
13:33:07  <Ammler> of course, sorry.
13:33:23  <Ammler> gcc -C shouldn't have influence of the grf md5sum
13:33:32  <planetmaker> yup
13:33:53  <Ammler> ok, so it is solved, but what to use now?
13:33:56  <Rubidium> and 60 is no -c and no local modifications
13:34:26  <Ammler> -c is somehow autofix of wrong alignment?
13:34:39  <Rubidium> cropping off any unneeded (blue) pixels makes the file smaller and less pixels to process, so faster in-game too
13:34:53  <Rubidium> Ammler: no, it doesn't autofix alignment
13:35:00  <Ammler> ah, I get it
13:35:27  <Ammler> it does crop blue and correct the adjustment like the amount it cropped.
13:35:27  <Rubidium> it's just that if you have a 40x40 pixel blue sprite with a 2x2 pixel white dot it chops of all blue pixels and updates the size and offsets appropriately
13:36:08  <Rubidium> anyhow, FooBar has local modifications causing his MD5 checksum to be off
13:36:11  <Ammler> ok, and that works with the trunk grfdodec like it should?
13:36:20  <Rubidium> as far as I know
13:36:31  <Ammler> then we enable that for all grfs :-)
13:37:11  <Rubidium> hmm, might be that it doesn't work on BE machines though
13:37:42  <Rubidium> r1508 | patchman | 2007-04-19 17:08:05 +0200 (Thu, 19 Apr 2007) | 1 line
13:37:46  <Rubidium> make grfcodec big-endian compatible (crop option not supported yet)
13:38:12  <Ammler> well, I enable it with Makefile.nightly
13:39:43  <Rubidium> fine, as long as you DO NOT compile releases of especially OGFX with other parameters than the defaults in the config
13:40:18  <Ammler> hmm, I do
13:40:31  <Ammler> oh
13:40:36  <Ammler> no, I don't
13:40:38  <Ammler> :-)
13:40:51  <Rubidium> otherwise self-compiled OGFX (i.e. the one distributed by distros) and the officially released one (via e.g. bananas) have differing MD5 checksums, but the same version
13:41:20  <Ammler> well, we should update default Makefile of ogfx with it.
13:41:27  <Rubidium> leading possibly to the official OGFX being seen as "not yet installed" causing it to be downloaded
13:41:33  <Ammler> (with all grfs)
13:42:15  <Rubidium> but then on rescanning it finds both and gives higher precedence to the 'non-official' version, making it look "not yet upgraded" in the content system
13:42:21  <Brot6> ::DevZone:: #openttdcoop - Revision 36: [CF] Update: add -c to grfcodec flags to make smaller and faster grfs. @ https://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/home/repository/revisions/36 (by Ammler)
13:42:37  <Ammler> hmm
13:42:50  <Ammler> we could also remove the grfcodec flags from nightly config
13:43:40  <Rubidium> or make it something like echo $GRFCODECFLAGS | sed 's/-q //'
13:44:04  <Rubidium> (if that would work ofcourse)
13:44:19  <Ammler> well, was now removed -q
13:44:53  <Ammler> which os has still BE support?
13:45:23  <Rubidium> still, but not for long: Apple
13:45:35  <Rubidium> still: Linux, BSD, ...
13:46:39  <Ammler> I thought, they changed that with switching to intel
13:47:26  <Rubidium> oh... you think Apple is even more arrogant than they actually are :)
13:47:38  <Ammler> hehe
13:47:51  <Rubidium> their current OS still supports PPC
13:47:59  <Ammler> well, they could support it with the old os.
13:48:29  <Rubidium> well, knowing Apple they stop support after a few weeks of releasing their next version
13:48:43  <Ammler> so you think, ogfx shouldn't use -c?
13:49:33  <Rubidium> well, I think it's more a question of testing whether -c really doesn't work on big endian
13:51:19  <Rubidium> oh, supporting the 'older' release has improved at Apple over the years :)
13:53:00  <Rubidium> 10.2.8: 3 october 2003, 10.3.0: 24 october 2003 | 10.3.9: 15 april 2005, 10.4.0: 29 april 2005 | 10.4.11: 14 november 2007, 10.5.0: 26 october 2007 | so extrapolating: end of september 2009: 10.5.9, 28 august 2009, 10.6.0
13:53:21  <Rubidium> not sure whether that can be called 'supporting' the older releases though
13:59:36  <Ammler> in opengfx, it is around 200k smaller with -c
13:59:40  <Ammler> 5%
14:00:23  <Rubidium> so you've got quite a lot of blue that can be cropped :)
14:01:39  <Ammler> well, the faces are a good example
14:12:46  <planetmaker> <Rubidium> anyhow, FooBar has local modifications causing his MD5 checksum to be off <-- But it should - in those cases - bear a changesd version number like firs-nightly-r205M
14:13:33  <planetmaker> *changed even
14:14:22  <Rubidium> planetmaker: making a local modification and compiling gave me the same md5 checksum as FooBar posted
14:14:39  <Rubidium> as such it is fairly safe to assume that he has the same
14:15:04  <Ammler> planetmaker: this "M" does change the md5sum
14:15:26  <Ammler> I guess, the only difference in the grf
14:16:22  <Ammler> btw, could I somehow detect, if the final grf changes before I start the compile?
14:17:10  <Ammler> well, except the release name
14:19:04  <planetmaker> Rubidium, yes, that might be. I tried to point out that there is an easier mean to detect the changes :-) Or should be.
14:19:07  <planetmaker> If not it's a bug
14:20:46  <planetmaker> e.g. if the grf reports differently ingame, it's fine if the MD5 is different.
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14:55:30  <Ammler> Rubidium: if newgrfs would have a kind of versioning, -c wouldn't matter
14:56:10  <Ammler> but because of that, I wasn't able to start a game on the server, which I configured local.
14:57:59  <planetmaker> Ammler, I cannot follow your reasoning. Can you elaborate?
14:58:20  <Rubidium> well, the md5 check will stay, so versioning won't fix it. It'll only make using a newer NewGRF instead of a random one easier
14:58:27  <Ammler> if you don't have matching md5sum, openttd choses another compatible grf randomly.
14:58:42  <planetmaker> ah, ok, yes.
14:58:51  <Ammler> but it could at least load the newest instead of a random one.
14:59:05  <planetmaker> Both is right, but both would have the same minor version
14:59:11  <planetmaker> Thus it would work
14:59:47  <Ammler> maybe, openttd could at least check timestamp?
15:00:00  <planetmaker> timestamp is arbitrary.
15:00:16  <planetmaker> well. can be :-)
15:00:38  <planetmaker> but it's not in all cases the most appropriate choice, e.g. if you load an older savegame.
15:00:56  <Ammler> well, random fails mostly
15:00:57  <planetmaker> So I doubt it would give benefits to use always the newest newgrf with the same ID:
15:01:14  <Ammler> at least for lucky guys like me.
15:01:30  <planetmaker> I guess I'm just as lucky ;-)
15:03:24  <planetmaker> With minor versions I fear something, though: People will do the same as the ISR now even more frequent: just bumping minor version while not staying 100% compatible
15:05:30  <Ammler> planetmaker: it doesn't matter
15:05:48  <Ammler> it just needs an idicator which tells, which grf is newer
15:06:23  <Ammler> if the grfid changes, it is something else, anyway.
15:06:41  <planetmaker> well. Different grfIDs = incompatible.
15:06:46  <Ammler> yes
15:07:25  <Ammler> but firs in dev is also incompatible, but downwards compatible, mostl likely
15:08:06  <Ammler> so loading a newer version shouldn't be a issue.
15:14:01  <Brot6> ::DevZone:: #openttdcoop - Revision 37: [CF] Fix (r29): hook support needs proper file permissions @ https://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/home/repository/revisions/37 (by Ammler)
15:14:01  <Brot6> ::DevZone:: #openttdcoop - Revision 38: [CF] Feature: move final nfo to nightly folder @ https://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/home/repository/revisions/38 (by Ammler)
15:15:36  <planetmaker> oh, well can be. FooBar adds varaction2 support and callbacks
15:15:50  <planetmaker> so new versions are not really unproblematic.
15:16:14  <planetmaker> technically it'd need a new grfid each time
15:16:25  <planetmaker> but he should only do once releases are made.
15:16:38  <Ammler> no
15:16:41  <planetmaker> but then he really should do, if the way industries work changes
15:16:47  <Ammler> as long as newer version is compatible
15:16:54  <planetmaker> yes. then not.
15:17:15  <planetmaker> But changing the way an industry determines whether to close or not: incompatible
15:17:29  <Ammler> why?
15:17:39  <planetmaker> ... isn't it obvious?
15:17:47  <planetmaker> if it closes down for me, but not for you?
15:17:52  <Ammler> I wouldn't ask "why" if it is :-P
15:18:18  <planetmaker> hm... nvm. You need same MD5 anyway for multiplayer :-) Forget what I argued.
15:18:25  <Ammler> he, then you need matching md5sum anyway :P
15:18:27  <Ammler> ah
15:19:27  <planetmaker> hm... which then actually is an issue for the minor version which needs thinking through
15:20:03  <planetmaker> IMO a minor version difference should allow joining even multiplayer...
15:20:16  <planetmaker> or shouldn't it?
15:20:41  <Rubidium> is that an offer of planetmaker to hunt all desyncs?
15:20:59  <planetmaker> :-) I guess that was a "NOOO!" ;-)
15:21:32  <planetmaker> fair enough. point taken.
15:24:16  <Ammler> planetmaker: not needed
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15:24:37  <Ammler> my issue was just that i configured the game local with same version on the server
15:24:48  <Ammler> just compiled with -c
15:25:03  <Rubidium> how are we to know that?
15:25:26  <Rubidium> and what if you compiled with some macro that left out half of the NewGRF?
15:25:35  <Ammler> as I said, just loading the newest would suffice in 90% of the cases.
15:25:39  <Rubidium> the version number could be the same
15:25:44  <Ammler> in my case, it would
15:26:21  <Ammler> well, it should also load the newgrf if there are real changes.
15:26:28  <Ammler> like it does already, just not random
15:27:28  <Rubidium> anyhow file dates are unreliable
15:28:21  <Ammler> because of different os?
15:28:32  <Rubidium> that
15:29:07  <Rubidium> and if you download X 5 now and X 4 a day later, X 4 will have a later file date, yet it is not newer
15:29:22  <Ammler> well, that is like random now
15:29:32  <Ammler> that happens in the 10% cases.
15:29:45  <Ammler> or less
15:30:24  <Ammler> it was just an idea, to make a bit less random :-)
15:30:26  <Rubidium> then you haven't seen my newgrf collection
15:30:46  <Ammler> me thinks, the random isn't that random, as it loads mostly the wrong ;-)
15:30:46  * planetmaker assumes that must be quite a selection...
15:31:01  <planetmaker> s/sel/col/
15:31:28  <Rubidium> 250+ MB
15:31:38  <Rubidium> (without duplicates!)
15:31:40  <planetmaker> impressive
15:32:10  <Rubidium> shitload of broken/buggy NewGRFs though
15:33:33  <planetmaker> hehe :-)
15:33:39  <Rubidium> bananas only has 24 MB
15:33:41  <planetmaker> I can imagine
15:33:56  <Ammler> he, then you need around 20 secs just for starting openttd
15:34:03  <planetmaker> also like all those test newgrf or with only one or two changes to <whatever>
15:35:37  <Rubidium> 85 MB of scenarios/heightmaps in bananas
15:37:02  <Rubidium> it's less than 20 seconds
15:37:15  <Rubidium> though most of the time my newgrf folders aren't symlinked into the data directory
15:44:00  <planetmaker> hehe :-)
16:18:26  <Brot6> 2cctrainset: update from r247 to r249, starting nightly compile
16:18:32  <Brot6> 2cctrainset: compile done (1 errors) - http://bundles.openttdcoop.org/2cctrainset/nightlies/
16:18:32  <Brot6> firs: nightly compile not needed. (r213)
16:18:32  <Brot6> fish: nightly compile not needed. (r64)
16:18:33  <Brot6> heqs: nightly compile not needed. (r169)
16:18:33  <Brot6> opengfx: nightly compile not needed. (r200)
16:18:33  <Brot6> opensfx: nightly compile not needed. (r41)
16:18:33  <Brot6> worldairlineset: update from r504 to r512, starting nightly compile
16:20:58  <Doorslammer> Blimey
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16:28:09  <Rubidium> just do not include ids first; then nforenum/grfcodec cannot find their headers
16:30:38  <Rubidium> *or* at least output the nfo header *before* you include anything
16:30:58  <Rubidium> it's not a bug of gcc -C, but rather a bug of your system
16:31:06  <Rubidium> actually, that it worked without -C is amazing
16:31:19  <Rubidium> because the nfo headers would be scrubbed too
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17:48:38  <Ammler> now, that is silly
17:48:51  <Rubidium> what is silly?
17:48:59  <Ammler> changing the header like you told, fixed the nfo.
17:49:47  <Rubidium> again showing that one should look at the first error and not the last :)
17:49:47  <Ammler> I don't get the difference
17:50:06  <Ammler> well, the error was just with -C
17:50:36  <Rubidium> well, it adds a bogus header to the file (the comment from ids.nfo)
17:50:38  <Ammler> so someone could think, -C is the issue ;-)
17:51:16  <Rubidium> thus grfcodec thinks... heh, that is an unknown version, lets assume it's that old version that wasn't really strict about its header
17:51:42  <Rubidium> heh, that isn't allowed in this old version of NewGRF... I should complain
17:51:51  <Ammler> gcc without -C removes the header
17:52:31  <Ammler> so grfcodec had always to guees the header
17:52:44  <Ammler> it seems more, that renum fucked up
17:53:03  <Ammler> hmm
17:54:53  <Ammler> I have no idea.
17:54:58  <Ammler> well, it works.
18:01:15  <Brot6> ::DevZone:: 2cc train set - Revision 250: Fix (r247): nforenum header needs to be at top before preprocessing... @ https://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/2cctrainset/repository/revisions/250 (by Ammler)
18:04:02  <Brot6> 2cctrainset: Backup push to ssh://hg@bitbucket.org/OpenTTD/2cctrainset/ initiated.
18:06:04  <Brot6> 2cctrainset: update from r249 to r250, starting nightly compile
18:06:25  <Brot6> 2cctrainset: compile done (1 errors) - http://bundles.openttdcoop.org/2cctrainset/nightlies/
18:24:02  <Brot6> ::DevZone:: #openttdcoop - Bug #449 (Closed): Internal error when viewing file from repo @ https://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/449#change-1259 (by Ammler)
18:27:28  <Brot6> ::DevZone:: 2cc train set - Code Review #500: Warning on sprite 1163 (level 1). @ https://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/500 (by Ammler)
18:52:41  <Brot6> ::DevZone:: 2cc train set - Code Review #501: Warning on sprite 1766 (level 1). @ https://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/501 (by Ammler)
18:55:35  <Ammler> it isn't that easy to find the sprites in the splitted source ;-)
18:58:41  <Brot6> ::DevZone:: 2cc train set - Code Review #502: Warning on sprite 5288 (level 1). @ https://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/502 (by Ammler)
19:11:58  <Brot6> ::DevZone:: New Monorail & Maglev TrainSet - Feature #499: Code new maglevs @ https://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/499 (by lawton27)
19:11:58  <Brot6> ::DevZone:: New Monorail & Maglev TrainSet - Feature #499: Code new maglevs @ https://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/499#change-1258 (by lawton27)
19:15:10  <Brot6> ::DevZone:: New Monorail & Maglev TrainSet - Feature #499: Code new maglevs @ https://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/499#change-1261 (by Ammler)
19:16:10  <Ammler> maybe, we should soon make brot6 a bit more silent.
19:27:18  <planetmaker> :-) I don't think so. It's still ok
19:31:47  <Brot6> ::DevZone:: New Monorail & Maglev TrainSet - Feature #499: Code new maglevs @ https://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/499#change-1262 (by lawton27)
19:31:47  <Brot6> ::DevZone:: New Monorail & Maglev TrainSet - Feature #503: Draw Hyundai Rotem Maglev @ https://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/503 (by lawton27)
19:32:25  <planetmaker> btw, thanks for the fix, Ammler . I could have sworn that I had it fixed...
19:32:37  <planetmaker> I actually had it. But somehow didn't commit...
19:33:56  <Brot6> ::DevZone:: New Monorail & Maglev TrainSet - Feature #504: Draw advanced monorail single car @ https://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/504 (by lawton27)
19:33:56  <Brot6> ::DevZone:: New Monorail & Maglev TrainSet - Feature #503 (Assigned): Draw Hyundai Rotem Maglev @ https://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/503#change-1265 (by lawton27)
19:36:51  <Brot6> ::DevZone:: 2cc train set - Revision 251: Change: rename files a bit @ https://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/2cctrainset/repository/revisions/251 (by planetmaker)
19:36:51  <Brot6> ::DevZone:: New Monorail & Maglev TrainSet - Bug #505: Draw futuristic freight maglev @ https://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/505 (by lawton27)
19:36:51  <Brot6> ::DevZone:: New Monorail & Maglev TrainSet - Bug #506: Draw Fast futristic maglev past 250 @ https://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/506 (by lawton27)
19:37:23  * planetmaker wonders wether lawton will ever continue with the toyland wagons ... :S
19:38:49  <Brot6> ::DevZone:: New Monorail & Maglev TrainSet - Bug #505: Draw futuristic freight maglev @ https://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/505#change-1266 (by lawton27)
19:38:49  <Brot6> ::DevZone:: New Monorail & Maglev TrainSet - Feature #504: Draw advanced monorail single car @ https://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/504#change-1267 (by lawton27)
19:47:29  <Ammler> he has other work now ;-)
19:47:38  <Ammler> pm, did you fix it like me?
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19:48:15  <Ammler> I do now copy the final nfo to the bundles dir, too.
19:48:33  <Ammler> but not versioned.
19:48:48  <planetmaker> Ammler: not quite. I moved header to the front.
19:49:00  <planetmaker> But the solution you applied is nicer.
19:49:04  <planetmaker> I only didn't like the file naming ;-)
19:49:17  <planetmaker> But that's something more general with 2cctrainset
19:49:22  <Ammler> well, those are ugly anway.
19:49:27  <planetmaker> hehe :-)
19:49:27  <Ammler> :-)
19:50:04  <planetmaker> I'll actually introduce your way to it to the example newgrf, I think
19:50:18  <planetmaker> hm, why do you copy the nfo?
19:50:24  <planetmaker> to the bundle?
19:50:25  <andythenorth> evening
19:50:33  <Ammler> we should also remove the template grfs from 2cc
19:50:39  <Ammler> sali andythenorth
19:50:45  <planetmaker> are there grfs in the repo?
19:50:50  <planetmaker> hi andythenorth
19:51:33  <Ammler> not grfs, but the nfos
19:51:43  <Ammler> at least move from sprites/
19:52:50  <planetmaker> hm, where should they be otherwise?
19:52:56  <planetmaker> the templates?
19:53:06  <planetmaker> a separate template dir?
19:53:08  <planetmaker> in main?
19:53:22  <planetmaker> ... would make sense, I guess
19:53:42  <Ammler> dir templates, yes
19:54:34  <Ammler> andythenorth: there is another game running at #openttdcoop.dev with firs and heqs
19:55:02  <andythenorth> Ammler: remind me how I can join it?
19:55:14  <planetmaker> join #openttdcoop.dev
19:55:20  <planetmaker> and use !download osx
19:55:34  <planetmaker> and get the newgrf mentioned in the title
19:55:41  <Ammler> you could also download a autosave: http://mz.openttdcoop.org/play-is/save/autosave/?C=M;O=D
19:57:02  <Ammler> address: mz.openttdcoop.org:3999
19:59:13  <andythenorth> Ammler: meh, loads of missing grfs :(
19:59:32  <planetmaker> hm... I wonder what the use of the tempplate.grf (sic!) might be...
19:59:36  <Brot6> ::DevZone:: 2cc train set - Revision 252: Cleanup: Move templates to a separate template dir @ https://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/2cctrainset/repository/revisions/252 (by planetmaker)
20:03:53  <Brot6> ::DevZone:: 2cc train set - Bug #507: template.grf needed? @ https://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/507 (by planetmaker)
20:04:56  <Ammler> planetmaker: afaik, he made that to demo how easy the template can be used.
20:05:37  <planetmaker> well. Then it still has no use in that repo
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20:05:58  <Ammler> well, the template files itself might help to copy&paste
20:06:52  <planetmaker> The template files themselves are out of question very useful
20:06:58  <planetmaker> Those I want to keep.
20:07:04  <planetmaker> But the compiled newgrf?
20:07:18  <Ammler> you know
20:07:36  <Ammler> that is djn style
20:07:44  <planetmaker> :-P yes, I do :-)
20:07:51  <Ammler> he liked to upload it very fast
20:07:55  <Ammler> to show us :-)
20:08:10  <planetmaker> same with his "quick fix" to introduce templates.
20:08:11  <Ammler> and forgot about the files tab
20:08:26  <planetmaker> which are as cryptic as no...
20:08:26  *** andythenorth has quit IRC
20:08:27  <Ammler> you can safely remove *.grf
20:09:04  <planetmaker> he's still lacking the sense that he's commenting code not only for himself, but that names should be understandable by the complete laymen IMO
20:10:58  <planetmaker> ok, if you agree :-)
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20:12:13  <Ammler> well, if he needs it still, it is there
20:12:33  <Brot6> ::DevZone:: 2cc train set - Revision 253: Cleanup: Remove tempplate.grf @ https://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/2cctrainset/repository/revisions/253 (by planetmaker)
20:47:39  <Brot6> ::DevZone:: World Airliners Set - Revision 513: Fixed #498 - Fixed all Flashing Airbus Planes (Mainly Air Ber... @ https://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/worldairlineset/repository/revisions/513 (by Beardie27)
20:47:39  <Brot6> ::DevZone:: World Airliners Set - Bug #498 (Closed): Fix any of your Planes which don't match the new Greyscales @ https://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/498#change-1268 (by Beardie27)
20:47:39  <Brot6> ::DevZone:: World Airliners Set - Bug #498 (Assigned): Fix any of your Planes which don't match the new Greys... @ https://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/498#change-1269 (by Beardie27)
20:47:41  <Brot6> ::DevZone:: World Airliners Set - Bug #497 (Closed): Apply new non flashing sprites @ https://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/497#change-1270 (by Beardie27)
21:00:05  <Ammler> you wouldn't have those flashing bugs, if your drawers would use some proper noaction color palettes
21:01:53  <Brot6> ::DevZone:: 2cc train set - Code Review #502 (Feedback): Warning on sprite 5288 (level 1). @ https://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/502#change-1272 (by planetmaker)
21:01:53  <Brot6> ::DevZone:: 2cc train set - Code Review #501: Warning on sprite 1766 (level 1). @ https://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/501#change-1273 (by planetmaker)
21:08:50  <Ammler> he, I have the same problem with the bug assigned to me :-)
21:09:19  <Ammler> I guess, I fix it with unassigning
21:13:32  <Brot6> ::DevZone:: 2cc train set - Code Review #500 (Assigned): Warning on sprite 1163 (level 1). @ https://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/500#change-1274 (by Ammler)
21:16:47  <Brot6> ::DevZone:: FISH - Revision 65: Add: source and pcx files for Large River Boat @ https://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/fish/repository/revisions/65 (by andythenorth)
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21:17:07  <andythenorth> mmm...Fish
21:17:10  *** openttdcoop sets mode: +v DJNekkid
21:17:14  <andythenorth> or FISH if you will
21:18:21  <DJNekkid> hi planetmaker ...
21:18:30  <DJNekkid> im fixing thoose bugs you "mailed me" :p
21:18:35  <planetmaker> Ho DJN :-)
21:18:42  <planetmaker> hehe :-)
21:18:48  <planetmaker> you've seen my diff?
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21:21:28  <DJNekkid> yes, one of them atleast, would remove the warning, but not add the given functionallity
21:22:13  <planetmaker> i feared that
21:23:11  <planetmaker> that's why I didn't commit it, but posted it there :-)
21:23:31  <DJNekkid> aye
21:24:20  <planetmaker> btw, mind, if I borrow your templates and add them to the example newgrf?
21:24:24  <Brot6> ::DevZone:: 2cc train set - Code Review #501: Warning on sprite 1766 (level 1). @ https://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/501#change-1273 (by planetmaker)
21:24:24  <Brot6> ::DevZone:: 2cc train set - Revision 254: fix #502 @ https://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/2cctrainset/repository/revisions/254 (by DJNekkid)
21:24:24  <Brot6> ::DevZone:: 2cc train set - Code Review #502 (Closed): Warning on sprite 5288 (level 1). @ https://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/502#change-1275 (by DJNekkid)
21:28:34  <Ammler> btw. DJNekkid, something you might configure on your side: https://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/home/wiki/Configuring_TortoiseHg_%28Windows%29#Ending-with-Line-Endings
21:28:52  <Ammler> a bit advanced, but maybe you are able to :-)
21:29:11  <DJNekkid> let me just fix this bug first
21:29:32  <Ammler> oh well, that is a general thing, no hurry ;-)
21:29:49  <Ammler> "general Windows thing"
21:31:44  * planetmaker applies a fix to make the commit messages a BIT more descriptive ;-)
21:35:05  <Ammler> andythenorth: heqs is very nice, those road trains just awesome
21:35:10  <Ammler> well, awesome slow, but nice.
21:35:19  <andythenorth> :)
21:35:27  <andythenorth> the trucks, or the bulldozers?
21:35:33  <Ammler> both
21:35:53  <andythenorth> any screenshots?
21:37:14  <Ammler> http://img.ammler.ch/images/screenozo.png
21:37:30  <Ammler> from current coop dev game
21:37:51  <Brot6> ::DevZone:: 2cc train set - Revision 255: fix #500 + fix #501 - And now we are totally warning free :P @ https://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/2cctrainset/repository/revisions/255 (by DJNekkid)
21:37:52  <Brot6> ::DevZone:: 2cc train set - Code Review #501 (Closed): Warning on sprite 1766 (level 1). @ https://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/501#change-1277 (by DJNekkid)
21:37:52  <Brot6> ::DevZone:: 2cc train set - Code Review #500 (Closed): Warning on sprite 1163 (level 1). @ https://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/500#change-1276 (by DJNekkid)
21:38:25  <andythenorth> Ammler: sleds on tarmac?  that'll be...noisy
21:38:30  <andythenorth> :)
21:39:09  <Ammler> he...
21:39:57  <Ammler> http://img.ammler.ch/images/screenxox.png
21:41:33  <andythenorth> how's firs working out?
21:41:47  <andythenorth> I'd join the game, but I haven't got the grfs and my web connection is being flaky
21:42:04  <Ammler> ask at #openttdcoop.dev
21:42:09  <Ammler> talk with the current players
21:42:42  * Ammler has issues to find the lines
21:42:56  <Ammler> from where to where to transport the things.
21:43:20  <andythenorth> hmm...it's not easy.  There are a lot of cargos, and the chains aren't all complete
21:43:28  <andythenorth> on the other hand, I was bored with not enough cargos.
21:43:33  <andythenorth> I guess we just have to learn it.
21:43:58  <DJNekkid> planetmaker: isnt "fix #xxx" good enough?
21:45:32  <planetmaker> it's good enough, but not descriptive :-)
21:45:46  <Ammler> DJNekkid: just think about, when the ticket tracker isn't available
21:45:47  <planetmaker> in a week I won't know anymore what issue #502 was :)
21:46:13  <Ammler> i.e. if someone forks 2cc set
21:46:32  <planetmaker> I would have chosen "Fix #502: silence some warning / varaction 02 of train xy"
21:46:34  <planetmaker> or something
21:46:43  <DJNekkid> noted
21:46:58  <planetmaker> we're a pain, right? ;-)
21:47:04  <DJNekkid> right :)
21:48:20  <planetmaker> I still believe it also helps you in the long run ;-)
21:48:42  <DJNekkid> most likely... but they are better then they used to be i think
21:49:07  <planetmaker> who/what is better?
21:49:31  <planetmaker> oh, the messages :-)
21:50:03  * planetmaker is... slow
21:50:04  <DJNekkid> btw Ammler... what does that actually do?
21:50:11  <DJNekkid> https://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/home/wiki/Configuring_TortoiseHg_(Windows)#Ending-with-Line-Endings
21:50:32  <planetmaker> avoid you commiting windows line endings
21:50:52  <DJNekkid> in other words?
21:50:53  <planetmaker> thus commiting unnecessary changes without any real change
21:51:18  <Ammler> some changes you commit looks like nothing changed
21:51:56  <Ammler> the only thing you (or we) did was convert \n to \n\r or opposite
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21:52:43  <DJNekkid> isnt that a change?
21:54:06  <DJNekkid> so, anyway ...
21:54:12  <planetmaker> it is. But is a change not worth a commit
21:54:21  <DJNekkid> if i uncomment "win32text ="
21:54:22  <planetmaker> something which shouldn't change
21:54:24  <DJNekkid> and add thoose lines ...
21:54:33  <DJNekkid> you guys are happy? :)
21:54:37  <Ammler> hehe
21:54:45  <planetmaker> probably :-)
21:54:49  <FooBar> then you'd probably get all kinds of issues...
21:54:53  <planetmaker> But you know: we're never happy :-P
21:55:02  <FooBar> as that's in the setup guide and you're already set up
21:55:38  <FooBar> solvable issues, but nevertheless you'd probably end up committing changed line endings for every file in the repo...
21:56:46  <Ammler> don't you use it in firs?
21:56:50  <FooBar> I only have that set up for OpenGFX at the moment; not for FIRS.
21:56:58  <Ammler> :-)
21:57:04  <FooBar> dunno what line endings Andy uses....
21:57:11  <planetmaker> mac...
21:57:22  <planetmaker> \r :-P
21:57:25  <FooBar> IIRC mac is \r so that's yet another issue...
21:57:25  <Ammler> the 3rd type
21:57:28  <FooBar> yeah, that :P
21:59:13  <DJNekkid> im completely lost, but oki...
22:00:05  <planetmaker> the (sad) point is: every OS understands under "new line" something else.
22:00:37  <planetmaker> and this HG extension might keep that issue out of the repo
22:01:26  <planetmaker> and now I'm off to bed. I'd like a comment from you, DJNekkid, on the ID thingy :-)
22:02:00  <planetmaker> issue #81 or so.
22:03:25  <DJNekkid> hehe...
22:03:33  <DJNekkid> whatever makes you happy... :)
22:04:02  <Brot6> 2cctrainset: Backup push to ssh://hg@bitbucket.org/OpenTTD/2cctrainset/ initiated.
22:04:37  <planetmaker> meh :-P
22:05:59  <DJNekkid> hehe
22:06:52  <Rubidium> FooBar: only 'old' macs (< 10)
22:07:07  <FooBar> interesting...
22:07:11  <FooBar> they use \n now then?
22:08:15  <planetmaker> dunno really. probably then
22:11:05  <FooBar> according to wikipedia yes
22:12:00  <planetmaker> anyway. Good night for now :-) Sleep well all of you :-)
22:12:18  <Ammler> possible, else we would have had more conflicts :-)
22:12:25  <Ammler> good night from my side, too.
22:12:54  <FooBar> good night :)
22:14:56  <FooBar> this might be interesting on the line ending subject: http://blog.symbian.org/2009/05/13/a-dilemma-at-the-end-of-the-line/
22:14:57  <Webster> Title: A dilemma at the end of the line?  Symbian Blog (at blog.symbian.org)
22:15:12  <FooBar> If you don't want to read all comments, just read the main post and comment #29
22:17:25  <FooBar> If you want my opinion: convert all repos to \n, add the hook to deny commits with \r\n and let developers decide for themselves if they want to use the win-extension or an editor capable of \n line endings.
22:17:49  <Rubidium> oh... deny all \r\n, that sounds like a good plan
22:17:55  <Rubidium> solves some other problems too :)
22:18:15  <Rubidium> what is comment 29 by the way? they start somewhere in the 1600s
22:19:00  <Rubidium> and there's a 1628 and 1630, just no 1629 I can find
22:19:05  <FooBar> on the website I linked; there's a number in front of the arrow with each comment...
22:19:16  <FooBar> I don't see those numbers your talking abouts :S
22:19:22  <FooBar> Maybe a line ending issue :P
22:19:29  <Rubidium> FooBar: it's in the permalinks
22:19:54  <FooBar> Oh, in that case: http://blog.symbian.org/2009/05/13/a-dilemma-at-the-end-of-the-line/#comment-1670
22:19:55  <Webster> Title: A dilemma at the end of the line?  Symbian Blog (at blog.symbian.org)
22:23:58  <Rubidium> to translate my optimism (or optimizm?; optimisation vs optimization) about denying all \r\n: png has a fancy way to detect whether line ending changes have been applied to the file
22:24:59  <Ammler> FooBar: Rubidium, do you have example, how to setup such a hook?
22:25:26  <FooBar> http://mercurial.selenic.com/wiki/Win32TextExtension ; bottom of page
22:25:28  <Webster> Title: Win32TextExtension - Mercurial (at mercurial.selenic.com)
22:25:54  <FooBar> not more than one line really...
22:26:18  <FooBar> If possible we might want to add that to OpenGFX only to see how it works...
22:26:52  <Ammler> well, I meant a hook to decline a push, if there is no proper linefeed
22:27:26  <FooBar> Isn't that what that hook does?
22:27:31  <Rubidium> no idea; I don't do HG management, just svn
22:27:53  <Ammler> we could also add some ugly files, like the mac store or windows thumbs
22:28:15  <Rubidium> and for OpenTTD's svn there's no \r\n check
22:28:26  <Ammler> svn doesn't need that, afaik.
22:28:46  <Rubidium> yup, if svn:eol-style is used properly it doesn't
22:29:22  <Ammler> maybe one of the advantage left from central vcs ;-)
22:31:53  <Rubidium> have you tried exiting with non-0 in the hooks?
22:33:24  <Ammler> that should be supported, afaik
22:33:49  <Ammler> well, I guess, I need to read a bit about the hooks in the mercurial book.
22:41:13  <Brot6> ::DevZone:: World Airliners Set - Revision 514: Updated Tracking Table with Some A319 Info (Countries) @ https://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/worldairlineset/repository/revisions/514 (by Beardie27)
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