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01:40:05 *** KenjiE20|LT has joined #openttdcoop.devzone 01:40:20 *** KenjiE20 has quit IRC 03:30:53 *** KenjiE20|LT has quit IRC 05:05:11 *** PeterT has quit IRC 07:58:09 *** andythenorth has joined #openttdcoop.devzone 08:24:35 *** Madis has joined #openttdcoop.devzone 08:47:30 *** roboboy has joined #openttdcoop.devzone 08:48:10 <roboboy> where can I find what the IS settings are called if I need to change them via rcon? 08:52:48 <Rubidium> list_settings? 09:03:50 *** Madis has quit IRC 09:06:02 *** ODM has joined #openttdcoop.devzone 10:06:31 *** roboboy has quit IRC 10:30:03 *** Chris_Booth has joined #openttdcoop.devzone 11:06:39 <Webster> Latest update from devactivity: FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Feature #317: translation system <http://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/317#change-1882> 11:22:08 *** andythenorth has quit IRC 11:24:46 *** andythenorth has joined #openttdcoop.devzone 11:28:20 *** andythenorth has quit IRC 11:35:51 *** andythenorth has joined #openttdcoop.devzone 11:43:53 *** andythenorth has quit IRC 11:46:28 *** andythenorth has joined #openttdcoop.devzone 11:51:09 *** KenjiE20 has joined #openttdcoop.devzone 11:52:39 <Webster> Latest update from devactivity: FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Feature #317: translation system <http://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/317#change-1883> 11:54:33 *** andythenorth_ has joined #openttdcoop.devzone 11:58:28 *** andythenorth has quit IRC 12:08:08 <Webster> Latest update from devactivity: FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Feature #317: translation system <http://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/317#change-1884> 12:14:57 *** andythenorth has joined #openttdcoop.devzone 12:15:02 *** PeterT has joined #openttdcoop.devzone 12:17:58 *** andythenorth has quit IRC 12:20:03 *** FooBar has joined #openttdcoop.devzone 12:20:19 *** andythenorth has joined #openttdcoop.devzone 12:20:23 *** andythenorth_ has quit IRC 12:20:56 <andythenorth> Hi FooBar 12:21:01 <andythenorth> how are you? 12:21:01 <FooBar> hi andy 12:21:06 <FooBar> I'm fine, thank you 12:21:32 <FooBar> so, what you wanted to talk about? 12:22:04 * andythenorth has some connectivity troubles - in case I go away unexpectedly! 12:22:23 <FooBar> still? 12:22:36 <andythenorth> still building a house... 12:22:45 <andythenorth> we'll get new broadband soon 12:22:53 <FooBar> ah, well carry on :) 12:23:04 <andythenorth> I tried a mobile broadband dongle but it just killed my mac 12:23:20 <andythenorth> http://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/696 12:23:25 <FooBar> that sucks. But then those dongles suck as wel... 12:23:30 * FooBar clicks link 12:23:45 <andythenorth> also hg pull if you haven't recently 12:24:07 <FooBar> That would require me to set up my development stuff... 12:24:11 <andythenorth> also that ticket is now out of date 12:24:17 <andythenorth> ok don't pull :) 12:24:31 <FooBar> I recently installed Win7, but haven't gotten around setting everything up yet 12:24:48 <FooBar> I'm surprised IRC works :P 12:25:38 <FooBar> Anyways, I'm not opposed nor against such an economy feature 12:27:40 <Ammler> Hello FooBar :-) (just like to say "hello", no more) 12:27:54 <FooBar> Hi Ammler! 12:28:43 <FooBar> Oh, by the way Ammler, is my bouncer still active? You emailed me about that a while ago; I did email back some time but missed any further reply... 12:28:58 <Ammler> hmm, I didn't replay? 12:29:00 *** andythenorth_ has joined #openttdcoop.devzone 12:29:11 <FooBar> Dunno, maybe I missed it... 12:29:15 <Ammler> I removed your account, but we still use the bouncer 12:29:26 <Ammler> so if you like to use it again, just ping. 12:29:29 *** PeterT has quit IRC 12:29:32 * andythenorth_ back 12:29:39 <FooBar> Ah, good. That's probably why I couldn't log in just now :P 12:29:59 <FooBar> Just keep it removed. Maybe when I get on IRC more often it might be useful to get it back 12:30:40 <FooBar> andythenorth, you got my : 12:30:42 <FooBar> [13:24] <FooBar> I recently installed Win7, but haven't gotten around setting everything up yet 12:30:44 <FooBar> [13:24] <FooBar> I'm surprised IRC works :P 12:30:45 <FooBar> [13:25] <FooBar> Anyways, I'm not opposed nor against such an economy feature 12:30:47 <FooBar> ? 12:30:57 <andythenorth_> FooBar: ok so FIRS...the plan is that one parameter controls economy. 12:31:13 *** PeterT has joined #openttdcoop.devzone 12:31:14 <andythenorth_> economy sets available cargos, payment rates, available industry types, probability in game 12:31:37 <andythenorth_> all config is via text files, and (very occasionally an action 7) 12:31:49 <FooBar> also the availability of stuff? 12:31:58 <FooBar> not just how expensive things are? 12:32:01 <andythenorth_> yes 12:32:18 *** andythenorth has quit IRC 12:32:30 <andythenorth_> ^ ignore that 12:32:35 <FooBar> right 12:32:35 <andythenorth_> I'm stil here 12:32:49 <FooBar> I was waiting for you to come back on, to be honest :P 12:32:58 <andythenorth_> I have two things in mind to balance: 12:33:21 <andythenorth_> making it easy for players to setup an interesting game (and protecting them from bad combinations of choices) 12:33:29 <andythenorth_> (that was 1.) 12:33:37 <FooBar> that's useful 12:33:43 <andythenorth_> 2. protecting us from nightmare code and unhelpful bug reports 12:33:50 <FooBar> that's useful as well 12:34:02 <andythenorth_> plus I think it will make sense 12:34:22 <andythenorth_> so a 'mining economy' has a lot of mine orientated industries and cargos, fewer agriculture 12:35:04 <andythenorth_> the 'coastal' economy has more focus on industries related to the sea, and a smaller mix of other types 12:35:06 <FooBar> Ah, so basically there's different flavours to choose from? 12:35:13 <andythenorth_> there will be a 'FIRS extreme' for people like Neko 12:35:16 <andythenorth_> yes 12:35:43 <andythenorth_> the original game provides this through the climates. 12:36:16 <andythenorth_> the climates aren't enough for FIRS, plus for me the climates are more just a choice of what colour tiles I want to look at for 10 hours 12:36:19 <andythenorth_> and how towns grow 12:36:45 <FooBar> exactly, that applies to me as well. I usually pick 'temperate' as I think that looks better 12:37:23 <andythenorth_> I'm updating the FIRS website, it will feature example economies 12:37:35 <FooBar> You have my vote on such a setup of economies 12:37:50 <andythenorth_> the other nice aspect is we can release a new 'economy' every so often. 'New' keeps people playing imo. 12:38:15 <andythenorth_> great 12:38:22 <andythenorth_> just so you know where it's going :) 12:38:33 <FooBar> I like the sound of it, so let's go for it. 12:40:09 <FooBar> There probably must be a 'default' economy with industries close to the original TTD ones, but still with the spirit of FIRS in it. And then we can have things like the 'mining', 'coastal', etc economies 12:40:34 <andythenorth_> btw, are you busy for the forseeable future 12:40:34 <andythenorth_> ? 12:40:55 <FooBar> I have exams the next three weeks or so. 12:41:01 <FooBar> So yes, I'm kinda busy 12:41:04 <andythenorth_> FooBar: there'll be a FIRS basic (1) which will be closer to my taste and less default. There can easily be a FIRS basic (2) if needed. I'm not sure which will end up as default without parameters set 12:41:09 <andythenorth_> ok good luck with exams :) 12:41:17 <FooBar> After that, I /hope/ to be less busy, but no guarantees :) 12:42:22 <FooBar> Well, what I meant to illustrate is that the default must be easy for people coming from default TTD to understand. It needn't be exactly the same (as there's no point in that), but it needs to have similarities 12:42:49 <FooBar> With similar complexity of chains and the like. 12:43:05 <FooBar> More complex chains can be in different economies 12:44:02 <FooBar> We also should have a five-star difficulty rating for each economy. With the default (whatever that ends up to be) having just one star and the full thing with everything enabled having all five stars :P 12:44:32 <FooBar> Just spawning some ideas ;) 12:45:24 <FooBar> If you don't mind, I'm going to have breakfast and lunch right now. I'll be back in like 15 minutes or so. 12:45:49 <andythenorth_> ok 12:51:43 <Ammler> breakfast and lunch in 15 mins, not healthy 12:58:39 *** Chris_Booth has quit IRC 13:06:43 <FooBar> back 13:07:15 <FooBar> alright, 20 mins then :P 13:12:01 <FooBar> Oh, andythenorth_, if we're to do these different economies, I'm in favour of dropping possible compatibility with other industry sets until further notice and only provide some sort of framework+documentation to allow add-ons. 13:12:16 <andythenorth_> that makes sense 13:12:37 <FooBar> For some simple industry sets it might be possible to combine them with FIRS, but large things will get way too complicated IMO 13:13:05 <FooBar> Ofcourse, compatibility with NARS and other regearing trainsets should remain. 13:13:18 <andythenorth_> Yes 13:24:25 <Ammler> If I may, you should add a "debug" switch to be able to skip such tests for testing ;-) 13:25:41 <andythenorth_> Ammler: FooBar I am thinking a debug parameter is pretty essential 13:25:52 <andythenorth_> the debug text I use in the industry window is vital 13:26:21 <andythenorth_> that kind of thing planetmaker is very good at helping with... 13:26:29 <andythenorth_> meanwhile, I've updated the FIRS site 13:26:30 <andythenorth_> http://tt-foundry.com/sets/FIRS/schema/industries 13:26:32 <Webster> Title: TT Foundry: Pixel Creations for Open Transport Tycoon (at tt-foundry.com) 13:26:36 <andythenorth_> it's much closer to something useful 13:27:21 <FooBar> nice job on the website! 13:28:30 <andythenorth_> there's more to do, but I think it will be the best way to explain the economies concept 13:29:54 <FooBar> and yes, such a debug parameter setting would be useful as some sort of override 13:30:30 <andythenorth_> http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=26&t=41607&start=1160 13:30:32 <Webster> Title: Transport Tycoon Forums • View topic - FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Development (at www.tt-forums.net) 13:30:36 <andythenorth_> el koeno just made a useful suggestion 13:30:53 <Ammler> hmm, maybe just create a debug grf with make 13:31:26 <andythenorth_> Ammler: that doesn't cover the case where a bug is seen while playing a game 13:31:37 <Ammler> then you load the debug grf 13:31:46 <Ammler> it should be compatible 13:31:50 <Ammler> just more output 13:31:50 <andythenorth_> loading a different grf can be massively unreliable with industries 13:32:03 <Ammler> hmm, then it isn't a debug grf 13:32:13 <andythenorth_> I think a debug switch will cover it 13:32:36 <andythenorth_> for my purposes it will run when the text cb runs 13:32:43 <andythenorth_> which is going to be sensitive to a parameter 13:32:46 <andythenorth_> (I hope)! 13:33:13 <Ammler> I just mean, the debug part could get complicated with nfo... 13:33:47 <andythenorth_> Ammler: no in my case, the debug code will run all the time anyway. 'debug' just means the values get printed to the screen 13:34:00 <andythenorth_> it will be negligible extra cpu 13:34:31 <andythenorth_> anyway, el koeno suggests that 'old industries' might just be left to close because players prefer to service new, more exciting version 13:34:37 <andythenorth_> I think there's something in that. 13:34:38 <FooBar> el koeno indeed is on to something there. "old" industries will just not hatch after a certain date and will kill themselves off automatically if no cargo is delivered. "new" industries will hatch after a certain year and users can either decide to stick to the old ones or reroute to the new ones. 13:35:06 <andythenorth_> the only thing is...we said several times, "secondary industries don't close (much)" 13:35:34 <andythenorth_> I can think of several solutions to that 13:35:43 <FooBar> Well, maybe we must unsay that then :P 13:35:57 <FooBar> Maybe it's possible to grant 'unusedl 13:35:59 <FooBar> crap 13:36:01 <andythenorth_> or allow closing after a certain date if unserviced 13:36:04 <FooBar> pressed enter too early... 13:36:09 <andythenorth_> :D 13:36:36 <andythenorth_> or allow closing after a minimum number of years unserviced (like, quite a large number of years) 13:36:45 <FooBar> Anyways, was saying that it might be possible to grant 'unused' industries a longer period before shutdown than industries that aren't served any more 13:37:27 <andythenorth_> well it's possible to store in a register when cargo was last delivered 13:37:27 <andythenorth_> we'll be doing that for a lot of industries anyway 13:38:16 <Ammler> they should stay at least 10 years or so 13:38:18 <FooBar> In that case we might be able to hook into that information 13:39:10 <Ammler> nobody complains about why power plant never expires 13:39:31 <FooBar> I hate that powerplants never expire... 13:39:35 <FooBar> :P 13:39:41 <andythenorth_> the powerplant in FIRS *will* expire 13:40:05 <FooBar> Maybe easier: if after certain date, then closedownperiod is 5 years, if not, then closedown period is 15 years. 13:40:08 <Ammler> FooBar: magic bulldozer ;-) 13:40:22 <andythenorth_> closure should be based on time unserviced then, not on quality of service (as it is now) 13:40:22 <FooBar> I hate that magic bulldozer... 13:40:24 <FooBar> :P 13:40:37 <andythenorth_> hmm no 13:40:46 <FooBar> Is it based on QoS now? 13:40:50 <andythenorth_> if an industry has poor service, it should still close 13:41:00 <andythenorth_> FooBar: let me find the specs... 13:41:09 <FooBar> don't bugger 13:41:17 <FooBar> just a yes or no is sufficient :P 13:42:00 <andythenorth_> http://wiki.ttdpatch.net/tiki-index.php?page=Callbacks#Random_production_change_29_ 13:42:43 <andythenorth_> I don't actually know how the internals of the production change work. I don't really care :) let the players figure that out :) 13:43:21 <FooBar> heh 13:43:53 <andythenorth_> in other FIRS news....Yexo has been working on new airports, which we need if we are to avoid certain sucky situations with water industries 13:44:15 <Ammler> oh, personally, I love the complecitiy of ECS or the "planned" FIRS 13:44:38 <andythenorth_> Ammler: you can quality check FIRS Extreme then :) 13:44:42 <Ammler> I wouldn't play ECS with parameter 15 in s SP 13:44:57 <FooBar> what does 15 do? 13:45:07 <Ammler> disable all callback things 13:45:11 <Ammler> closing etc. 13:45:30 <Ammler> we use that for coop game 13:45:31 <FooBar> ah, that will leave a mess... 13:45:58 <andythenorth_> planetmaker also suggested a FIRS parameter for 'scenario mode' - no building new industries 13:46:23 <andythenorth_> This is the problem with water stations right now: http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?p=845119#p845119 13:46:24 <Webster> Title: Transport Tycoon Forums • View topic - NFO: Industry on water -> with station? (at www.tt-forums.net) 13:46:27 <Ammler> better would be predefined places ;-) 13:46:49 <andythenorth_> Ammler: that could in theory be done - in a scenario 13:46:59 <andythenorth_> I know exactly how to code for that. 13:52:43 <Ammler> you can code industries to appear only on e.g. south east region only? 13:52:46 <andythenorth_> nope 13:53:14 <andythenorth_> what you request is similar to the survey camp role 13:53:31 <andythenorth_> so place something like the survey camp in a scenario, then make industries locate near it 13:53:55 <andythenorth_> to support different types of industries, multiple survey camp types are needed! 13:54:00 <andythenorth_> :o 13:54:12 <andythenorth_> or we could do a hack using industry layouts 13:54:13 <Ammler> but sounds cool 13:54:53 <andythenorth_> the layouts thing is barely a hack, it's actually fully supported, but I don't know how to build a specific layout in the scenario generator (except by build-demolish until you get the layout wanted) 13:55:11 <andythenorth_> (um...fully supported by nfo, not FIRS ) 13:58:27 <andythenorth_> I'm going to setup a couple more economies to prove the concept. Um, watch this channel 13:58:53 <andythenorth_> also, there might be some 'easter egg' industries, but I can't decide whether to keep them secret 14:19:23 <Ammler> :-) 14:19:37 <Ammler> quite hard on a opensource project :-P 14:20:15 <Ammler> well, a lot people never will follow the development but might use the release 14:26:44 <Webster> Latest update from devactivity: FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Feature #708 (New): polish language file <http://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/708> 14:38:33 *** Madis has joined #openttdcoop.devzone 14:48:53 <andythenorth_> FooBar: http://tt-foundry.com/sets/FIRS/schema/economies 14:48:54 <Webster> Title: TT Foundry: Pixel Creations for Open Transport Tycoon (at tt-foundry.com) 14:48:58 <andythenorth_> this kind of shows what I have in mind 14:49:11 <andythenorth_> the presentation could be better...it's all just words at the moment 14:50:49 *** andythenorth has joined #openttdcoop.devzone 14:55:21 <andythenorth> FooBar: I also think I know how to handle industry closure 14:57:13 *** andythenorth_ has quit IRC 14:57:24 <FooBar> good for you :P 14:57:50 <FooBar> anyhoe, I think that economy idea would work quite well indeed 14:59:34 <Ammler> shouldn't you mainly drop the default industries from basic 15:01:49 <Ammler> and maybe a FIRS type, which uses the default cargos only. 15:03:10 <andythenorth> Ammler: you would rather see even fewer default industries? 15:03:28 <Ammler> for the basic set, yes. 15:03:49 <andythenorth> Suggestions? It's quite easy to actually build and try :) 15:04:17 <Ammler> no steel, no grain 15:04:52 <Ammler> and the industries to it 15:05:21 <andythenorth> :o 15:05:24 <Ammler> best would be no default at all, but that might not be possible :-) 15:05:30 * andythenorth is shocked by Ammler's radical ideas :) 15:05:54 <andythenorth> Ammler is a punk 15:06:37 <andythenorth> Ammler get me a list somehow of cargos and industries and we can try it? 15:06:52 <Ammler> the other idea is to use only cargos from default and the industries to it 15:07:22 <Ammler> so this basic set would be compatible to all newgrfs 15:07:44 <andythenorth> All can be tried. The only costs are: time to check we didn't break chains, and possible confusion for players. 15:08:27 <Ammler> for me it is hard to decide/suggest such things, I depend on 2 different views 15:08:44 <Ammler> my personal SP and the #openttdcoop view 15:08:45 <andythenorth> Ammler: give me a few minutes. I'll make "FIRS Extreme" and then you can copy and paste the cargos and industries, then edit a list for me? 15:09:37 <Ammler> for openttdcoop, we once made a game with all ECS, but parameter 15 15:09:44 <andythenorth> http://tt-foundry.com/sets/FIRS/schema/economies#everything 15:09:45 <Webster> Title: TT Foundry: Pixel Creations for Open Transport Tycoon (at tt-foundry.com) 15:09:56 <Ammler> so from 150 games, around 10 games are with new industries 15:10:43 <andythenorth> quite a small ratio 15:11:02 <Ammler> yes, maybe 2 ECS and 5 PBI 15:11:09 <Ammler> and 3 alpine 15:11:31 <Ammler> well, I wild guess 15:11:39 <Ammler> a* 15:12:24 <Ammler> "we" decided that newindustries aren't useable for us. 15:14:05 <Ammler> andythenorth: did you read about George who told about automatic "filter" for cargos? 15:14:26 <andythenorth> yes. It appears to work - I tested it. 15:14:41 <andythenorth> so I'm not concerned about that 15:15:15 *** DJNekkid has joined #openttdcoop.devzone 15:15:18 <Ammler> so you can basically include all industries and just make a parameter filter for cargos? 15:17:29 <andythenorth> Ammler: maybe. I don't know if that's the best situation. Also, the code might work, but cargo chains could be broken... 15:20:00 <Ammler> as you don't have a release yet, you shoudn't/can't mark industries/cargos as depreciated ;-) 15:20:54 <Ammler> !s/mark/flag/ (sorry for highlight :-P 15:20:56 <andythenorth> yes...I should tidy that up somehow. 15:22:10 <FooBar> I think action7-ing unused industries might be best. Having them 'hidden' might imply the possibility to change the setting in a running game, which I don't want to support 15:23:03 <andythenorth> I agree with FooBar they would be action 7-ed 15:23:13 *** Hyronymus has joined #openttdcoop.devzone 15:23:21 <DJNekkid> Hyronymus :D 15:23:22 <Hyronymus> hello 15:23:41 <Hyronymus> I just registerd on the devzone 15:23:53 <FooBar> good for you. And welcome! :P 15:24:02 <Hyronymus> har har 15:24:07 <FooBar> :) 15:25:06 <Hyronymus> ich habe planne, grosse planne 15:25:08 <Hyronymus> :P 15:25:50 <FooBar> I read something about 32bpp... 15:26:37 <Hyronymus> yeah 15:26:45 <Hyronymus> not going for a "localised" set though 15:28:33 <FooBar> I'd plug it onto the 2CC set. That's a really nice codebase (which you need anyways). And ofcourse releasing the 32bbp version under GPL license. That way if someone wants to do a localised version, there's a nice start readily provided :) 15:29:19 <Hyronymus> ypu 15:29:23 <Hyronymus> uhm, yup 15:29:29 * andythenorth afk 15:35:07 <Ammler> you mean Action9 ;-) 15:37:11 <FooBar> well action9 is basically the same as action7, but different 15:37:33 *** andythenorth has quit IRC 15:37:34 <Ammler> you need Action9 to use it on a running game, afaik 15:38:18 <Ammler> Action7 is more for version openttd specific things 15:39:06 <Ammler> hmm, n 15:39:26 *** andythenorth has joined #openttdcoop.devzone 15:39:50 *** Madis has quit IRC 15:40:16 <Ammler> andythenorth: shall I enable the non-ssl bouncer for you ;-) 15:40:56 <andythenorth> Ammler: it would be nice 15:44:32 <Webster> Latest update from devactivity: 2cc train set - Revision 436: Fix: Forgot to add name to the ICM <http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/2cctrainset/repository/revisions/436> || 2cc train set - Revision 435: Add: ICM mu... It were apparently not added yet <http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/2cctrainset/repository/revisions/435> || 2cc train set - Revision 434: Fix: GL8 didnt have shortening, added/fixed <http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/2cctrainset/repository/revisions/434> || Redmine - Revision 3141: update tags <http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/redmine/repository/revisions/3141> || Redmine - Revision 3140: Copyright updated (#4542). <http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/redmine/repository/revisions/3140> || Redmine - Revision 3139: Set alignment for inline images in formatted text. <http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/redmine/repository/revisions/3139> || Redmine - Revision 3133: Merged r3295 from trunk. <http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/redmine/repository/revisions/3133> || Redmine - Revision 3138: CHANGELOG update. <http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/redmine/repository/revisions/3138> || Redmine - Revision 3132: Merged r3293 from trunk. <http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/redmine/repository/revisions/3132> || Redmine - Revision 3137: Updated doc. <http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/redmine/repository/revisions/3137> 15:46:20 <Ammler> andythenorth: setup done: irc://openttdcoop.org:6667 15:46:45 <Ammler> do you know your credentials, still? 15:47:04 <andythenorth> no 15:58:23 *** andythenorth_ has joined #openttdcoop.devzone 15:58:37 <andythenorth_> hi hi 15:58:40 <Ammler> welcome andythenorth_ :-) 15:59:42 <Ammler> now, you can try, e.g. if you rejoin, it will paste some lines so you shouldn't miss something because of your unstalb eline 16:00:16 *** andythenorth has left #openttdcoop.devzone 16:00:21 *** andythenorth_ has left #openttdcoop.devzone 16:00:37 <Ammler> oh :-( 16:01:11 *** andythenorth_ has joined #openttdcoop.devzone 16:01:27 <Ammler> why did you part? 16:01:38 <andythenorth_> testing 16:01:47 <andythenorth_> seems to work btw 16:01:50 <andythenorth_> :) 16:01:57 <Ammler> I meant disconnecting with your client from the bouncer 16:02:50 <Ammler> @services op 16:02:50 *** ChanServ sets mode: +o Webster 16:02:54 <Ammler> @topic remove -1 16:02:54 *** Webster changes topic to "Talk about things hosted and developed on http://dev.openttdcoop.org | Logs: http://dev.openttdcoop.org/irclogs | Downloads log: http://bundles.openttdcoop.org/log.csv | ATTENTION: Server changed IP, you might get warnings about it: Fingerprint: http://sites.google.com/site/openttdcoop/" 16:02:56 * Hirundo ponders creating a new devzone project for airport grfs 16:02:57 <andythenorth_> wanted to try rejoining with the client gui, not /join 16:03:23 <andythenorth_> Hirundo: what is your thinking? 16:04:47 <Hirundo> Basically to create a set of tiles and templates 16:05:06 <Hirundo> So writing a new airport doesn't involve reinventing the wheel 16:05:45 <Hirundo> with templates/#defines as in 2cc, FIRS etc 16:06:06 <andythenorth_> will that play nice with the state machine? 16:06:10 <andythenorth_> I guess so 16:07:04 * andythenorth_ really has no idea though! 16:10:20 <Hirundo> It'll have to wait, though, I'm busy enough already 16:15:38 <Ammler> @topic remove -1 16:15:38 *** Webster changes topic to "Talk about things hosted and developed on http://dev.openttdcoop.org | Logs: http://dev.openttdcoop.org/irclogs | Downloads log: http://bundles.openttdcoop.org/log.csv" 16:25:41 <andythenorth_> I have a favour to ask of someone who would cut out and compress some pngs of the FIRS cargo icons for me... 16:27:22 <Rubidium> would `cat png | cut -b 1,10 | gzip > png_cut_n_compressed` suffice? :) 16:27:39 <Rubidium> yeah, I'll be flamed for using a pipe too much 16:28:47 <Ammler> andythenorth_: btw., you can configure your bouncer settings with the same address, just http instead irc 16:29:06 <andythenorth_> Rubidium: dunno, does it work? 16:29:31 <Ammler> I already setup a pretty good setup... 16:29:48 <Rubidium> it works, but probably not in the way you want it to wokr 16:30:21 <andythenorth_> :P 16:34:14 <Ammler> andythenorth_: you are still connected directly, else it would automatically rename to the master nick 16:34:27 <andythenorth_> ?? 16:35:00 <Ammler> [17:32] [Whois] andythenorth is ~andy@87.114.50.201.plusnet.thn-ag3.dyn.plus.net (Andy) 16:35:44 <Ammler> or maybe a ghost... 16:39:36 <andythenorth_> :( 16:41:02 * andythenorth_ waves bye to "the Animal Feed Plant". Stupid circular industry chain 16:41:36 <andythenorth_> grain - feed plant -> produce more grain from the same farm. umm. 16:42:45 *** andythenorth_ is now known as andythenorth 17:16:26 * FooBar laughs at producing grain from grain... 17:17:58 *** Hyronymus is now known as Hyr|LeChef 17:19:06 * FooBar says bye! 17:19:08 *** FooBar has quit IRC 17:19:47 <andythenorth> Bye! 17:19:58 <PeterT> bai 17:36:26 <andythenorth> planetmaker: hai hai 17:52:47 <planetmaker> moin andy 17:53:16 <planetmaker> andythenorth: even 18:38:53 <andythenorth> planetmaker: I've been thinking a lot about FIRS 'economies' 18:38:58 <andythenorth> http://tt-foundry.com/sets/FIRS/schema/copy_of_economies 18:39:00 <Webster> Title: TT Foundry: Pixel Creations for Open Transport Tycoon (at tt-foundry.com) 18:39:14 <andythenorth> ^^ is a list format I'm working. It's work in progress 18:42:43 <planetmaker> andythenorth: something when reading the forums: you don't plan to close down serviced industries (like guano mine)? 18:42:53 <Ammler> andythenorth: why do you mix temperate and arctic but not tropic? 18:43:06 <andythenorth> Ammler: there is no difference currently between Arctic and Temperate 18:43:18 <andythenorth> I am trying to keep climate variation to a minimum 18:43:24 <andythenorth> it makes for more robust code 18:43:38 <andythenorth> I am open to suggestions though 18:44:03 <Ammler> well, it would be another variation instead of using parameters 18:44:20 <Ammler> i.e. use temperate for basic and more advance version for arctic 18:44:50 <andythenorth> Ammler: I am thinking about it like this: 9 economies x 2 climates = 18 things to test. 9 economies x 3 climates = 27 things to test 18:44:56 <andythenorth> variation == bad 18:45:01 <andythenorth> but variation is necessary :) 18:45:21 <andythenorth> planetmaker: (I see your comment above) 18:45:25 <Ammler> andythenorth: well, if you do it with parameters, you will get the same effect 18:45:44 <andythenorth> Ammler: ideally I would have no climates, then just 9 economies 18:45:57 <Ammler> yes 18:46:07 <andythenorth> but sugar cane and cotton don't grow so much above the snowline :) 18:46:15 <Ammler> I wouldn't work with climates at all 18:47:01 <Ammler> just use different econimies and than in a later step, you could enable different economics as default in the climas 18:47:58 <planetmaker> hm, actually a good idea. Just define n economies. And some are simply not available in climate XX or YY 18:48:27 <Ammler> climas are also something like difficult levels with default 18:48:35 <planetmaker> Like farming might not be available in arctic, if it includes some non-arctic industries 18:49:08 <andythenorth> I like the following suggestion: don't work with climates at all 18:49:30 <andythenorth> Bear in mind for example that two of my 'economies' are 'Mountain' and 'Tropical Island' 18:49:32 <Ammler> didn't I suggest that 18:49:47 <andythenorth> Yes 18:49:49 <andythenorth> :D 18:49:53 <andythenorth> Prize for Ammler 18:49:56 <Ammler> :-P 18:50:03 <planetmaker> andythenorth: yeah. "Tropical island" obviously is unsuitable for arcic... :-P 18:50:15 <planetmaker> Nobel price in newgrf proposals? 18:50:15 <andythenorth> but if players want to use those tiles...that's their choice 18:50:22 <Ammler> but no necessary for temperate 18:50:32 <andythenorth> climate = tiles + more or less annoying town behaviour 18:51:25 <andythenorth> Also Ammler - changing the 'default' basic FIRS later per climate is maybe nice. As long as it doesn't confuse players. 18:51:36 <Ammler> planetmaker: what do you think about my other proposal, make a economic mode with default cargos only? 18:52:37 <andythenorth> planetmaker: for comparison, here's my proposal for FIRS Basic: http://tt-foundry.com/sets/FIRS/schema/misc/FIRS_basic_proposal_2.png 18:52:48 <andythenorth> there was an alternative, but it sucked 18:54:57 <planetmaker> Ammler: default cargoes = cargoes w/o newgrfs? 18:55:12 <Ammler> yes 18:55:26 <planetmaker> actually: interesting idea. 18:55:29 <Ammler> basically just other industries 18:55:32 <planetmaker> Not sure though, how feasable it is 18:55:53 <planetmaker> But I like it. Woul make FIRS playable w/o other newgrfs. 18:56:02 <Ammler> it would make it compatible to all newgrfs 18:56:02 <planetmaker> *would 18:56:18 *** Chris_Booth has joined #openttdcoop.devzone 18:56:50 <andythenorth> it's feasible...I think you'd find it added not much. Or at least nothing that Pikka hasn't already done. But if you want to try and work it out...... http://tt-foundry.com/sets/FIRS/schema/copy_of_economies#everything 18:56:52 <Webster> Title: TT Foundry: Pixel Creations for Open Transport Tycoon (at tt-foundry.com) 18:57:03 <andythenorth> that's your list to start with :) 18:57:09 <Ammler> :-) 18:57:32 <Ammler> maybe replace the supply cargos with goods? 18:57:50 <Ammler> or pax 18:58:17 <planetmaker> food is acceptable 18:58:25 *** Hyr|LeChef is now known as Hyronymus 18:58:26 <planetmaker> goods... well, the usuall stuff. 18:58:34 <DJNekkid> there is always the "new cargos old wagons" 18:58:50 <planetmaker> DJNekkid: sure. But the question was "without other newgrf" :-) 18:58:59 <DJNekkid> oki... :) 18:59:13 <Ammler> or with every other newgf 18:59:17 <planetmaker> only as _one_ option among many 18:59:25 <planetmaker> selectable via grf parameters 18:59:48 <Ammler> as the least possible minimum :-) 19:00:08 <andythenorth> Well see if you can come up with a list of industries then :) 19:00:16 <andythenorth> planetmaker: it's easy to edit firs.pnfo to test this in practice 19:00:32 <andythenorth> although it would now be useful to start templating industries per economy as well :0 19:00:34 <andythenorth> :) 19:00:57 <planetmaker> hehe :-) 19:01:18 <Ammler> the industries itself shouldn't care about economy 19:01:36 <planetmaker> well. Difficult, if you want the "basic" option. 19:01:46 <planetmaker> Or you'd need at least re-arange some cargos 19:01:52 <planetmaker> Well. Feasable. 19:02:07 <Ammler> then it needs to care about cargo 19:02:31 <Ammler> if no farm supply use goods 19:02:51 <planetmaker> that's bound to get very confusing. 19:03:15 <planetmaker> what an industry accepts should not vary. At least not much. Maybe an additional cargo or so 19:03:20 <planetmaker> same goes for supplies 19:05:19 <andythenorth> planetmaker: there will be a few, very small, carefully done variations to industry acceptance / production 19:05:24 <andythenorth> but otherwise nothing 19:05:38 <andythenorth> I do think the production code would handle it ok actually though 19:08:05 <andythenorth> Ammler: planetmaker are we *definite* about not working with climates? 19:08:22 <andythenorth> I ask as I'm about to send some web code to an early grave... 19:08:29 <planetmaker> andythenorth: fine with me. 19:08:32 <andythenorth> and I *don't* have much vcs :D 19:08:42 <Ammler> climas is just another econmy type 19:08:47 <planetmaker> yeah 19:09:09 <planetmaker> economy types are sufficient. They offer more variation than climates 19:09:18 <andythenorth> ok. back in a bit. I have to go make some changes :) 19:09:26 <planetmaker> And economy types availability - that can be climate specific ;-) 19:09:59 <andythenorth> could be. Did you see my suggestion for massively improved setting of parameters? 19:10:33 <andythenorth> I think users would be annoyed to choose an economy then be told it doesn't work with climate x *after* they started the game 19:11:20 <planetmaker> Well... just make the parameter meaning a climate dependent function :-) 19:11:36 <planetmaker> a list of param value = economy 19:11:40 <planetmaker> for each climate 19:11:46 <andythenorth> hmm....this might cause major vehicle support issues 19:11:56 <andythenorth> if a vehicle set has climate-specific support... 19:12:07 <andythenorth> most don't, it's not how cargo-translation tables are supposed to work 19:12:25 <planetmaker> uh? How so? It's the vehicle set which makes its vehicles look different 19:12:45 <andythenorth> I believe some sets (CanRail) have a climate specific cargo translation table 19:13:09 * andythenorth files that under "even if true, not my problem" 19:13:27 * andythenorth takes a knife to climate stuff 19:13:36 <andythenorth> (only on the website) 19:14:28 <planetmaker> andythenorth: yes. But the climate-specific CTT of a vehicle set should not cause a problem for the set, least for the industry set author 19:14:47 <andythenorth> it's not just industries, there are climate-specific cargos 19:15:04 <andythenorth> but I think it will be fine 19:16:00 <andythenorth> the only troubling item will be the Water chain 19:16:04 <andythenorth> pain in the arse 19:16:08 <planetmaker> andythenorth: yes. But cargos are defined by the industry. And that's where cargo classes come into play. 19:16:41 <planetmaker> As train set author you need to make sure to have appropriate graphics and wagon availability depending upon the classes. 19:16:53 <planetmaker> As a bonus you make it specific for those cargos defined in the CTT. 19:17:44 <andythenorth> planetmaker: yes. I'm just thinking of OzTrans. But he's promised full FIRS support anyway. 19:17:56 <planetmaker> :-) 19:18:06 <planetmaker> Yes, that's nice :-) 19:18:10 <Ammler> andythenorth: I would make a economic type like "arctic" or "tropic" or 19:18:26 <planetmaker> hm... no, I wouldn't :-) 19:18:50 <Ammler> well, it is a combination of other types ;-) 19:18:51 <andythenorth> me neither. It needs to be subtly different 19:19:56 <Ammler> don't see, why you need to differ economy and clima 19:23:44 <andythenorth> hmm. using a web based cms to design the set is handy. If it's hard to make the cms show the set, the set will also be hard to code :) 19:24:04 <planetmaker> Ammler: exactly. And that poses the question: why name an economy after a climate in the first place? 19:24:40 <planetmaker> just name the economies appropriately to what they reflect. Just "tropcial" etc is boring 19:24:48 <planetmaker> and quite non-descriptive 19:24:58 <andythenorth> Tropical Island is more fun :) 19:25:27 <andythenorth> I suppose we could start screwing with stuff like snowline as well 19:25:35 <andythenorth> And base tiles...and town placement. 19:25:41 <andythenorth> And then we've remade the game :o 19:25:48 <planetmaker> having like "1001 nights" and "Father Christmas home" is more fun ;-) 19:26:31 <planetmaker> andythenorth: I wouldn't put a snow line into FIRS. Bad style IMO to modify other parts of the game. 19:26:41 <andythenorth> yes, quite right 19:26:51 <andythenorth> And also...more work :P 19:26:56 <planetmaker> Besides, you can just copy&paste my snowline newgrf ;-) 19:27:17 <planetmaker> hm... I didn't put online that code so far... oh well. 19:27:33 <planetmaker> it's GPL'ed anyway and despite. 19:28:12 * andythenorth finishes setting all industries and cargos to appear in all climates 19:28:41 <planetmaker> And now it needs to be made a function of "economy model" :-P 19:29:28 <andythenorth> I haven't modified any code yet, just the website 19:29:31 <planetmaker> hm... do we have a coffee plantation? 19:29:59 <andythenorth> no, but... 19:30:06 *** Madis has joined #openttdcoop.devzone 19:30:32 * andythenorth python treats a tuple as a string if there's only one item. probably a good reason, but it broke my site :| 19:30:53 *** Madis has joined #openttdcoop.devzone 19:30:55 <andythenorth> "One Climate" http://tt-foundry.com/sets/FIRS/schema/copy_of_economies 19:30:57 <Webster> Title: TT Foundry: Pixel Creations for Open Transport Tycoon (at tt-foundry.com) 19:31:16 *** Madis has quit IRC 19:32:20 <planetmaker> ah... found the translation. I think of an economy model like "The Thousand Nights and a Night" 19:32:29 <planetmaker> like situated around arabia and alike 19:32:45 <planetmaker> available in... temperate and tropical :-) 19:32:49 <planetmaker> maybe only tropical 19:32:53 <DJNekkid> WTF! all my files are gone! 19:33:02 <andythenorth> wasn't me 19:33:44 <DJNekkid> hmm 19:33:47 <planetmaker> it's also not in my wastebin 19:34:10 <DJNekkid> i did a hg up 289 to recover a lost file 19:34:18 <DJNekkid> then hg up to get "back" 19:34:26 <DJNekkid> and now it saies it is 440 19:34:31 <DJNekkid> but it have little or no files in it 19:34:49 <Hyronymus> DJNekkid, planetmaker: did you read my PM 19:34:49 <planetmaker> eh? 19:34:55 <planetmaker> Hyronymus: yes. 19:34:56 <Hyronymus> it probably only went to one of you 19:34:58 <planetmaker> Welcome aboard 19:35:06 <Hyronymus> ty 19:35:06 <planetmaker> :-) 19:35:25 <planetmaker> I need your ssh key for write access 19:35:43 <planetmaker> you're already registered at the devzone, I assume? 19:35:47 <Hyronymus> I have 19:35:55 <Hyronymus> am now looking at the 2cc project 19:36:04 <Hyronymus> oh, right 19:36:06 <planetmaker> :-) It's heavily templated NFO ;-) 19:36:07 <Hyronymus> the key 19:37:01 <planetmaker> I guess it's ok, to add you as manager, too :-) 19:37:03 <Hyronymus> installing tortoisehg 19:37:23 <planetmaker> ^ DJNekkid ? 19:37:32 <DJNekkid> sure... 19:37:35 <planetmaker> done 19:37:40 <DJNekkid> im just trying to "find" my files again 19:38:22 <planetmaker> DJNekkid: "my files" = repo files or other files which were not versioned? 19:38:50 <DJNekkid> repo files 19:39:01 <planetmaker> try another hg up maybe? 19:39:27 <planetmaker> what does hg tip tell you? 19:39:56 <DJNekkid> 440! 19:40:20 <planetmaker> what 440? 19:40:28 <planetmaker> oh revision. sorry 19:41:14 <DJNekkid> hg up 440 gives me an conflict! 19:41:24 <planetmaker> might happen. 19:41:28 <planetmaker> what conflict? 19:41:40 <DJNekkid> something it apparently cant fix itself 19:41:54 <planetmaker> what you *might* try is: hg up null and then hg up 19:42:27 <planetmaker> and if you don't mind all files purged that are not versioned (be aware!) use -C as an option to both 19:43:09 <DJNekkid> apparently it gets the same conflict 19:43:18 <DJNekkid> and kdiff3 opens 19:44:01 <planetmaker> yes, you probably changed *something* in r289 or so. 19:44:16 <planetmaker> or had uncommited changes before going to r289 19:44:27 *** Chris_Booth has quit IRC 19:44:31 <planetmaker> then that might happen. 19:44:43 <planetmaker> if you're fine with removing all those changes: hg revert * 19:44:47 <planetmaker> and hg up again 19:45:11 <planetmaker> btw, "that error" does not tell me anything ;-) 19:45:19 <DJNekkid> hehe 19:46:22 *** Hyronymus has quit IRC 19:49:45 <DJNekkid> it seems like it worked out 19:51:55 *** Hyronymus has joined #openttdcoop.devzone 19:59:56 <Hyronymus> planetmaker: I have a public key 20:00:54 *** PeterT has quit IRC 20:01:50 <Ammler> post it somewhere curl-able 20:01:55 * andythenorth contemplates adding 'economy' as a url query parameter to various views 20:02:06 <Ammler> or paste here :-) 20:02:51 <Hyronymus> curl-able? 20:03:52 <Ammler> paste.openttd.org or files section at devzone 20:04:38 <Ammler> only the public key, hope that is obvious ;-) 20:04:53 <planetmaker> Ammler: only *nix gurus know what curl is ;-) 20:05:23 <planetmaker> for other people it is just a "Wirbel" ;-). For others it's even a differential operator 20:06:46 <planetmaker> also written as ∇ × 20:12:35 <Hyronymus> sorry, busy with a small connection problem 20:12:51 <Hyronymus> right, so I need to paste the public key 20:15:08 <Hyronymus> ssh-rsa AAAAB3NzaC1yc2EAAAABJQAAAIEAgn05xqri2zSoJITTbRrJxS2zP2fX/meN3aqJx2DT7t7VO4RCetObzf9FwsW4vffy0dXlLHNnDqX2Jxl6QziUANZozUFkfIm6xNQVO9WtVTHVq3rA97UoC+N6wCW9ZMbLtVvCnlwNCaGz3vIb+mk7HJ2L5cv9w+nHGGesV4zA1PE= rsa-key-20100110 20:16:36 <planetmaker> ok, written and authorized 20:16:42 <Ammler> :-) 20:16:54 <planetmaker> Hyronymus: do you have the 2cctrainset repo already on your machine. 20:16:55 <Ammler> just liked to ask, if you do or if I shall :-P 20:17:05 <planetmaker> hehe 20:17:24 <Hyronymus> no, I haven't 20:17:57 <planetmaker> ok, clone it first. 20:18:02 <planetmaker> Try the key for that: 20:18:07 <Hyronymus> sounds sci~fi 20:18:57 <planetmaker> hg clone ssh://ottdc@mz.openttdcoop.org//hg-repos/2cctrainset 2cctrainset 20:19:25 <planetmaker> if everything is setup it should fetch the repo using your key. 20:19:35 <planetmaker> if not... there'll be an error :-P 20:19:37 <DJNekkid> god damn, that resolve-thing 20:23:59 <planetmaker> Hyronymus: does that work? 20:24:06 <Hyronymus> not yet 20:24:13 <Hyronymus> have to setup tortoise properly 20:24:25 <planetmaker> ah, ok 20:27:34 <Webster> Latest update from devactivity: 2cc train set - Revision 441: Fix: Ice3 now works as intended <http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/2cctrainset/repository/revisions/441> || 2cc train set - Revision 440: Fix: CE4-4 had same problem with same fix (just 03 and not 01) <http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/2cctrainset/repository/revisions/440> || 2cc train set - Revision 439: Fix: WDM had same issue, same fix <http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/2cctrainset/repository/revisions/439> || 2cc train set - Revision 438: Fix: NMBS 7800 werent shortened as it were supposed to, added #defi... <http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/2cctrainset/repository/revisions/438> || 2cc train set - Revision 437: Fix: the Serbian class 811 lacked name and P-list text <http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/2cctrainset/repository/revisions/437> 20:30:15 <Hyronymus> planetmaker: I get an error message 20:30:40 <Hyronymus> saying I cannot trust the computer I connect to is the computer it should be 20:31:05 <DJNekkid> just say "yes", you want to connect 20:31:09 <Hyronymus> bla bla "Store key in cacche" 20:31:13 <Hyronymus> ok 20:31:33 <Hyronymus> failed to clone 20:31:52 <DJNekkid> why? :P 20:32:01 <Hyronymus> remote: Illegal repository '/hg-repos/2cctrainset' 20:32:29 <DJNekkid> hg clone ssh://ottdc@mz.openttdcoop.org/hg-repos/2cctrainset 20:34:08 <DJNekkid> that line works atleast for me 20:34:12 <DJNekkid> btw 20:34:16 <planetmaker> and me :-) 20:34:20 <DJNekkid> you might want to add a dir behind that 20:34:29 <DJNekkid> hg clone ssh://ottdc@mz.openttdcoop.org/hg-repos/2cctrainset <dir-you-want-the-repo-in> 20:34:34 <Hyronymus> it works now 20:34:42 <planetmaker> not needed, but I always do... nice! :-) 20:36:15 <Ammler> [21:18] <planetmaker> hg clone ssh://ottdc@mz.openttdcoop.org//hg-repos/2cctrainset 2cctrainset <-- maybe the 2 "/" caused the first failed try? 20:36:34 <planetmaker> eh? 20:36:40 <planetmaker> oh 20:36:44 <planetmaker> sorry 20:37:12 <planetmaker> missed that. Bad c&p error of mine 20:37:47 *** PeterT has joined #openttdcoop.devzone 20:38:26 *** PeterT has quit IRC 20:38:34 *** PeterT has joined #openttdcoop.devzone 20:39:13 <Hyronymus> cloned succesfully 20:39:23 <DJNekkid> goodie 20:39:36 <DJNekkid> do you have msys/mingw installed? 20:39:54 <DJNekkid> (as i assume you drive windows) 20:39:55 <planetmaker> ah, right :-) DJNekkid knows that much better than myself :-) 20:40:51 <andythenorth> planetmaker: Ammler minor progress on FIRS site, the title of each economy is now a link, click it for more detail on industries... 20:40:51 <andythenorth> http://tt-foundry.com/sets/FIRS/schema/economies 20:40:52 <Webster> Title: TT Foundry: Pixel Creations for Open Transport Tycoon (at tt-foundry.com) 20:41:17 <Hyronymus> I haven't got anything else installed and I "drive" widdows 20:41:34 <DJNekkid> then you need msys/mingw as well... 20:42:04 <DJNekkid> there is this page... 20:42:08 <planetmaker> widows? :-D 20:42:24 * planetmaker quickly hides and doesn't want other widows to appear. 20:42:49 <Webster> Latest update from devactivity: 2cc train set - Revision 442: Fix: White errors on the tanker <http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/2cctrainset/repository/revisions/442> 20:42:51 <DJNekkid> lol 20:43:54 <DJNekkid> Hyronymus: 20:43:54 <DJNekkid> http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/home/wiki/Getting_started_on_Win 20:44:11 <Hyronymus> am readin that and found the links to said programs 20:48:59 <Ammler> andythenorth: basic has still too many :-) 20:49:21 <Ammler> or will there be a "light" with fewer? 20:49:29 <andythenorth> basic === light 20:49:43 <andythenorth> well cut some out then. I'm open to suggestions. I'd say cut the Fishing Harbour, but posting screenies of that made people very excited 20:50:03 <DJNekkid> doesnt that "only" produce food directly? 20:50:11 <Ammler> well, if I play FIRS, I would use extreme ;-) 20:50:19 <andythenorth> DJNekkid: yes, it's a bit weird. It has to be supplied with stuff though 20:50:27 <andythenorth> let me add an industry count to those pages... 20:51:12 <Ammler> maybe remove the oil chain? 20:51:48 <planetmaker> honestly Ammler make an overall "basic" vector as you proposed and present that instead of single proposals :-) 20:51:59 <planetmaker> That's much better than ... yes, those :-) 20:52:16 <planetmaker> and yes, I agree in principle with you that 'basic' still is quite big. 20:53:17 <DJNekkid> but basic should, imho, be more then just vanilla ttd 20:53:22 <DJNekkid> thats what we have vanilla for 20:53:26 <Ammler> IMO not 20:53:29 <andythenorth> Vanilla is done 20:53:48 <Ammler> it should be other than vanilla, not more 20:54:00 <andythenorth> Vanilla and or PBI. It's been done to death, surely? 20:54:14 <andythenorth> I guess I've played a *lot* of PBI. perspectives may vary 20:54:17 <DJNekkid> i agree andy 20:54:21 <Ammler> PBI is already too much for some ;-) 20:54:31 <andythenorth> gee, let me just recompress some images, this is scary slow 20:54:41 <Ammler> well, not too many indsutries, but too much micromanagement 20:55:15 <DJNekkid> but dont have that micromanagement... 20:55:43 <DJNekkid> but firs dont ... 21:01:54 <Hyronymus> ok, I have everything installed 21:02:06 <planetmaker> then 'make' :-) 21:02:07 <DJNekkid> go to the 2cc-dir and try "make" 21:02:12 <planetmaker> in the 2ccdir :-) 21:02:16 <Hyronymus> ok 21:02:49 <DJNekkid> btw, you might want to find a file called "makefile.local" 21:02:52 <DJNekkid> and add this line 21:02:52 <DJNekkid> INSTALLDIR = c:/data/openttd/data 21:03:04 <DJNekkid> atleast, if that is where your .grf's are :P 21:03:40 <Hyronymus> where would that file be 21:03:51 <planetmaker> where Makefile is. E.g. in the 2cctrain dir 21:03:52 <DJNekkid> in the 2cc dir 21:04:02 <planetmaker> there's a Makefile.sample 21:04:13 <planetmaker> you might copy that and uncomment the appropriate line 21:05:59 <Hyronymus> did that 21:06:10 <DJNekkid> now you can "make install" 21:06:11 <Hyronymus> now I'm in the 2cc set dir 21:06:21 <DJNekkid> and it will copy the file into the openttd data-dir 21:06:23 <planetmaker> then 'make install' will copy the latest grf into your grf dir as specified there 21:06:29 <planetmaker> meh... slow :-) 21:06:31 <DJNekkid> you can also "make remake install" 21:06:48 <DJNekkid> and that builds the grf from scratch, and install it to your data-dir 21:07:01 <Hyronymus> I can't find the make install command 21:07:02 <Hyronymus> :p 21:07:08 <Hyronymus> I'm a n00b 21:07:12 <planetmaker> it will call itself something like 2cctrainset-nightly-rXXX 21:07:20 <planetmaker> hm... make is part of MinGW 21:07:30 <planetmaker> all from command line 21:07:42 <PeterT> Hyronymus: Are you doing that 32bpp Dutch Trainset? 21:07:53 <planetmaker> just type that in your command line. If make is not found, you have to adjust your path settings 21:07:57 <Hyronymus> I will be doing it, PeterT 21:08:06 <PeterT> ok, I'll be waiting 21:08:44 <Hyronymus> hmm 21:08:55 * Hyronymus is positive he put all things in dev 21:09:14 <planetmaker> Hyronymus: yes... but maybe some sub dir? 21:09:35 <planetmaker> IIRC there's a bin dir coming with mingw... 21:09:36 <Hyronymus> c:\dev\ 21:10:01 <planetmaker> have a look at its wiki. It explains it... or at least it worked for me, going by their defaults when I setup that stuff in a VM a year ago 21:10:06 <Hyronymus> oh, I think I know the problem 21:10:16 <Hyronymus> there is a 1.0 dir 21:10:38 <Hyronymus> with msys 21:11:24 <Hyronymus> are path's case sensitive? 21:11:40 <planetmaker> might be. at least on all systems except windows 21:11:57 <planetmaker> ^ also a hint for future commits ;-) 21:12:06 <andythenorth> all of you using a proper browser? i.e. webkit or gecko based? 21:12:12 <planetmaker> DJNekkid: might remember those issues initially, too ;-) 21:12:45 <DJNekkid> indeed i do :) 21:12:48 <planetmaker> andythenorth: meaning? Safari / Moz? 21:12:49 <DJNekkid> it takes a bit getting used to 21:12:54 <andythenorth> yes 21:13:11 <planetmaker> well... yes? Why? 21:13:11 <andythenorth> safari or FF / Moz 21:13:20 <andythenorth> nah, just fooling with some rounded corners 21:13:29 <andythenorth> not necessary, but slightly restful 21:16:34 <planetmaker> hehe. I remember when I was kinda surprised to find an internet explorer on a True64 machine ;-) 21:16:37 <Hyronymus> can't find what I did wrong 21:16:55 <Hyronymus> tortoise isn't in the dev dir but in program files 21:17:03 <Hyronymus> but in the path it's correctly mentioed 21:17:20 <DJNekkid> you might need a reboot after setting the path 21:17:26 <Hyronymus> ok 21:17:29 <Hyronymus> brb then 21:17:34 *** Hyronymus has quit IRC 21:17:57 <planetmaker> maybe it was also IRIX on a SGI onyx... dunno anymore 21:19:45 <planetmaker> he... true64 seems kinda common. But in the times of 16 bit systems it was great :-) 21:20:45 *** Hyronymus has joined #openttdcoop.devzone 21:21:00 <Hyronymus> still no make 21:21:01 <planetmaker> wb :-) 21:21:05 <planetmaker> hm... 21:21:17 <Hyronymus> can you tell me exactly what to do in the 2cc dir 21:21:29 <DJNekkid> open a command line 21:21:33 <DJNekkid> start->run->cmd 21:21:36 <DJNekkid> if windows xp 21:21:41 <Hyronymus> vista 21:21:45 <DJNekkid> start -> search -> cmd if vista/7 21:21:54 <Hyronymus> but I have a command line 21:22:04 <DJNekkid> cd <to 2cc dir> 21:22:10 <DJNekkid> make 21:23:11 <Hyronymus> ooh 21:23:14 <Hyronymus> now it does work 21:23:23 <DJNekkid> :D 21:24:25 <Hyronymus> 572kb 21:24:38 <Hyronymus> w00t 21:24:39 <planetmaker> size of the grf? Might well be 21:24:57 <DJNekkid> sounds about right 21:26:41 <Hyronymus> it says v442 21:27:04 <DJNekkid> not r442? :) 21:27:08 <planetmaker> :-P 21:27:28 <Hyronymus> :P 21:27:41 <Hyronymus> thx for your patience 21:27:43 <planetmaker> which means that we made 442 changes to it since it was started / imported here 21:27:47 <Hyronymus> I'm really new to this 21:27:59 <planetmaker> no worries, you're doing well :-) 21:28:27 <Ammler> Hyronymus: now, you can practice update and compile again 21:28:30 <Webster> Latest update from devactivity: 2cc train set - Revision 443: Change: Cleaning up the english languagefile abit :) <http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/2cctrainset/repository/revisions/443> 21:28:35 <Ammler> as tip is r443 21:28:56 <planetmaker> hehe. Probably time difference ;-) 21:29:03 <Hyronymus> is there a Dutch languagefile too 21:29:09 <planetmaker> yup 21:29:15 <Hyronymus> hmm 21:29:18 <Hyronymus> let's ape it 21:29:18 <welshdragon> planetmaker: how do i get LZO? 21:29:23 <Hyronymus> *rape 21:29:30 <Hyronymus> nah, I'll experiment a bit 21:29:31 <DJNekkid> btw Hyronymus, you might need to "hg pull -u" 21:29:40 <PeterT> planetmaker: For mac, he means. 21:29:50 <DJNekkid> as i've done a update since you cloned it 21:29:51 <planetmaker> welshdragon: uhm... ? 21:30:03 <Ammler> sounds like a compress tiny 21:30:24 <welshdragon> planetmaker: i need the LZO Library for OSX 10.5 21:30:32 <welshdragon> any ideas how to get it? 21:30:57 <planetmaker> hm... I guess I downloaded it and then make install. Maybe macports has it, too. I don't know anymore. 21:31:02 <planetmaker> where do you need it for? 21:31:05 <Hyronymus> I can pull from the repository explorer, right 21:31:08 <planetmaker> OpenTTD has it inbuilt kinda 21:31:16 <Ammler> Hyronymus: just be aware, that you should always hg pull && hg update (= hg pull -u), if you like to check something or commit 21:31:22 <welshdragon> planetmaker: i need it for openttd 21:31:34 <welshdragon> ./make says it cannot be found 21:31:34 <PeterT> for compiling, OpenTTD 21:31:40 <welshdragon> yes 21:31:40 <PeterT> http://pdb.finkproject.org/pdb/package.php/lzo2 <-- Is that not it? 21:31:41 <Webster> Title: Fink - Package Database - Package lzo2 (Real-time data compression library) (at pdb.finkproject.org) 21:31:43 <Hyronymus> ok Ammler 21:32:07 <welshdragon> it is 21:32:13 <welshdragon> but that requires compiling 21:32:14 <Ammler> the more you keep your repo up2date, the less you need to merge 21:32:19 <planetmaker> welshdragon: yes, it does 21:32:25 <planetmaker> port install lzo 21:32:36 <Hyronymus> Ammler: I can choose in the repository explorer: after pull: <update> 21:32:42 <Hyronymus> is that the same as the command line 21:32:53 <Ammler> yes, sounds like 21:32:55 <planetmaker> or lzop or lzo2 21:32:59 <Hyronymus> ok 21:33:12 <Ammler> Hyronymus: type hg parent 21:33:18 <Hyronymus> where :P 21:33:19 <welshdragon> ty planetmaker 21:33:24 <planetmaker> ingo: ~/Downloads> port list | grep 'lzo' 21:33:26 <planetmaker> lzo2 @2.03 archivers/lzo2 21:33:27 <planetmaker> lzo @1.08 devel/lzo 21:33:29 <planetmaker> lzop @1.01 sysutils/lzop^ 21:33:30 <planetmaker> ^ I have those installed via macports 21:33:33 <Ammler> Hyronymus: console 21:33:36 <Hyronymus> k 21:33:44 <Ammler> then you see, if it worked, if tag is tip 21:33:59 <Ammler> if tag != tip, you need to update 21:34:11 <planetmaker> Hyronymus: there *might* also be for most of those things GUI equivalents. But don't ask me or Ammler ;-) 21:34:16 <planetmaker> we can only tell you command line 21:34:24 <Hyronymus> ok 21:34:37 <Ammler> but the tortoisehg seems a nice tool 21:34:42 <planetmaker> yep 21:34:44 <Ammler> I didn't hear bad things about. 21:34:58 <planetmaker> yeah, seems to be nicely and actively maintained 21:35:01 <Ammler> I should install it here too 21:35:12 <Ammler> as it isn't windows only. 21:35:42 <Hyronymus> tag: tip 21:35:44 <Hyronymus> user: DJ Nekkid 21:35:46 <Hyronymus> date: Sun Jan 10 21:30:16 2010 +0100 21:35:47 <Hyronymus> summary: Fix: White errors on the tanker 21:36:02 <DJNekkid> "hg pull -u" 21:36:31 <Hyronymus> tag: tip 21:36:33 <Hyronymus> user: DJ Nekkid 21:36:34 <Hyronymus> date: Sun Jan 10 21:30:16 2010 +0100 21:36:36 <Hyronymus> summary: Fix: White errors on the tanker 21:36:37 <Hyronymus> gah 21:36:37 <planetmaker> Ammler: it's not windows only? Then I should look at it, too 21:36:51 <Hyronymus> it updated 21:37:07 <Ammler> no, it isn't and specially the grphics gui could help to see how to merge 21:37:15 <Ammler> or if you work with branches etc. 21:38:26 <Ammler> http://bitbucket.org/tortoisehg/stable/wiki/Home#supported-platforms 21:38:27 <Webster> Title: tortoisehg / stable / wiki / Home — bitbucket.org (at bitbucket.org) 21:40:32 <Ammler> looks like there is also a unofficial support for macs 21:55:50 <Hyronymus> right, I'm off to bed 21:55:54 <Hyronymus> cya 21:55:57 *** Hyronymus has quit IRC 22:22:44 <welshdragon> planetmaker: any idea why Waiting for lock on /opt/local/var/macports/build/_opt_local_var_macports_sources_rsync.macports.org_release_ports_textproc_libiconv/work/.macports.libiconv.state 22:22:44 <welshdragon> would take 30 minutes? 22:24:09 *** welshdragon has quit IRC 22:26:59 *** welshdragon has joined #openttdcoop.devzone 22:47:25 *** PeterT has quit IRC 22:47:36 *** PeterT has joined #openttdcoop.devzone 22:51:20 <welshdragon> hi, if you want to help users with compiling/patching OpenTTD, or you need help yourself: #compile is the place to be! 23:00:23 <andythenorth> good night 23:00:24 *** andythenorth has left #openttdcoop.devzone 23:07:55 <Ammler> welshdragon: don't think there is a special channel needed for that ;-) 23:08:48 <welshdragon> Ammler: it's been created anyway 23:09:38 <Ammler> there is no problem asking such questions here or in #openttd 23:10:22 <Ammler> there is btw. also no need to link people from #openttd to here 23:10:36 <Ammler> as everyone here is also on the other channel 23:13:49 *** ODM has quit IRC 23:15:12 <welshdragon> Ammler: it's just that some of the developers don't seem very obliging with help 23:18:00 <Ammler> welshdragon: oh well, don't take that personally 23:22:28 <Ammler> if you like to create a subchannels you should prefix those with #openttd, like #openttd.compile or such 23:22:50 <PeterT> welshdragon: What Ammler said is a better idea 23:23:04 <PeterT> Ammler: If we do that, shouldn't we ask #openttders? 23:23:15 <Ammler> why? 23:23:26 <Ammler> don't think, they care 23:23:38 <Ammler> we used that in some places too, like #openttd.is 23:24:53 <Ammler> I guess, there is a rule on this network, theoretically you need to make them subchannels, if those aren't own projects 23:25:38 <PeterT> ok, i just told welshdragon 23:26:07 <Ammler> well, not sure, just sometime, someone talked about that 23:41:10 <PeterT> Ammle: We moved 23:54:10 <welshdragon> yep 23:54:19 <welshdragon> #openttd.compile is our home