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Log for #openttdcoop.devzone on 23rd February 2010:
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12:47:07  <yorick> hmm...quiet channel so far
12:49:27  <SmatZ> Silnce! I kill you!
12:50:29  <Ammler> psst
12:51:04  <yorick> silence fail :D
12:51:22  <yorick> oh Ammler you're awake :)
13:19:25  <DJNekkid> Ammler: do you know if its possible (or an awailable plugin) to bulk close cases in redmine?
13:21:04  <Ammler> DJNekkid: try right click
13:25:32  <yorick> 490 unique grfs :O
13:26:36  <Ammler> sounds about right
13:26:54  <yorick> that's a lot
13:27:10  <Ammler> around 250 useable
13:27:28  <yorick> it's 490 used in multiplayer games
13:27:54  <Ammler> right now
13:27:56  <Ammler> ?
13:28:11  <yorick> no, total
13:28:52  <Ammler> well, then you have also obsolete grfs
13:29:16  <Ammler> so you will end maybe below my 250 :-)
13:29:20  <yorick> 175 right now
13:30:04  <Ammler> that's a lot!
13:30:33  <Ammler> really unique?
13:31:19  <yorick> http://pastebin.com/PuVZYjXt
13:33:16  <DJNekkid> Ammler: thanx, right click worked :)
13:44:59  <yorick> idea...save periodically...but also save every multiplayer command, so that when someone nukes the map, you can load the last save, and replay the stored commands
13:49:16  <yorick> something like this is already used in multiplayer joins
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14:01:00  * yorick is bored
14:01:18  <yorick> go on and get me something to do :P
14:05:20  <Ammler> or enable rsync debug...
14:05:24  <Ammler> desync*
14:06:25  <yorick> what am I supposed to do with desync debug
14:14:47  <Ammler> I guess, that does make a save with every command, iirc
14:15:35  <yorick> yes, but I don't want to make a save with every command
14:15:40  <yorick> I want to save every command
14:15:46  <yorick> and then be able to replay the commands
14:17:50  <Ammler> for start, use the logging tool from SmatZ :-)
14:18:11  <Ammler> then you need something replay those
14:26:31  <yorick> the python bot can log commands
14:28:10  <Ammler> indeed, you don't need the clients
14:30:20  <yorick> and for replaying, I could probably abuse networking
14:30:43  <yorick> (send a few commands to the clients, then sending frames far in the future)
14:34:00  <Ammler> yorick: would be nice to have a "undo" and "redo" ;-)
14:34:24  <yorick> undo one would be a bit hard
14:35:02  <yorick> but the saving of commands would allow to generate a complete savegame of any given game for any time
14:35:30  <Ammler> not sure about the random things
14:36:21  <Ammler> I mean, will the plane crash on every run the same?
14:36:29  <yorick> Random() ;)
14:36:54  <Ammler> so what?
14:37:01  <yorick> as long as every command is saved and executed in the right frame, the random() should stay the same
14:37:24  <yorick> same idea as is done now with multiplayer joins...
14:37:45  <yorick> client gets old save+commands and uses that to sync
15:47:40  <yorick> so, Ammler, planetmaker: have you discussed anything yet?
15:59:51  <Webster> Latest update from devactivity: 2cc train set - Revision 452: Change: Minor change to the added template, and added a new definit... <http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/2cctrainset/repository/revisions/452> || 2cc train set - Revision 451: Add: Royal hudson <http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/2cctrainset/repository/revisions/451> || 2cc train set - Revision 450: Add: Template for two part articulation engines(most steamers and a... <http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/2cctrainset/repository/revisions/450> || Redmine - Revision 3316: Moved the IssuesController routing tests to an integration test. <http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/redmine/repository/revisions/3316>
16:01:00  <Ammler> yorick: not yet
16:02:40  <yorick> Ammler: we're in a kind of hurry
16:02:42  <yorick> "it will be good, when you find another hosting solution as soon as possible"
16:30:19  <Ammler> yorick: then I recommed you buy a vps
16:30:38  <Ammler> vps are mostly very powerful, just a bit memory limited
16:30:46  <Ammler> but that should be fine for openttd
16:31:15  <yorick> it's actually more like website hosting ;)
16:31:40  <Ammler> google pages?
16:31:47  <yorick> for sql?
16:32:13  <Ammler> ask orudge?
16:32:33  <planetmaker> yeah... I would be more comfortable with providing an OpenTTD server (that's something I have limited experience with) than providing web hosting - which I have not much experience with configuring.
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16:33:16  <Ammler> well, we could setup on our existing server a hosting for you, but that needs a kind of trust level
16:33:25  <Ammler> which I am not sure about your other guys
16:34:20  <Ammler> the DevZone is very much not made for hosting, no chroots and such
16:45:51  <Webster> Latest update from devactivity: 2cc train set - Revision 453: Fix: Various bugs with the new template and the royal hudson <http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/2cctrainset/repository/revisions/453>
16:50:58  <DJNekkid> damnit! i want the old mspaint back!
16:51:05  <Frankr> lol
16:51:09  <Frankr> alex does as well
16:51:16  <DJNekkid> not the new fancy windows7 one
16:51:28  <Frankr> he uses some online version of paint now
16:51:40  <Frankr> Gimp is just as easy to use
16:52:51  <DJNekkid> Frankr: do you use windows xp or earlier?
16:52:59  <DJNekkid> or, anyone?
16:53:01  <Frankr> no
16:53:04  <Frankr> sorry
16:53:06  <Frankr> win7 here
16:54:17  <Frankr> why Djnekkid
16:54:26  <Frankr> to get the paint?
16:56:09  <DJNekkid> yes :)
16:56:12  <DJNekkid> its a simple .exe
16:59:25  <Frankr> :)
17:00:53  <Webster> Latest update from devactivity: 2cc train set - Revision 454: Change/Fix: The single unit metros used the railbus template, and t... <http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/2cctrainset/repository/revisions/454>
17:06:29  <planetmaker> DJNekkid, sometimes I do use XP. But why?
17:09:59  <Frankr> all, he wants to know is if you have it so he can get mspaint.exe off you
17:11:15  <DJNekkid> ^^
17:14:02  <planetmaker> eh... err...
17:14:38  <planetmaker> on some university pcs there is... but... it doesn't feel appropriate...
17:15:09  <Rubidium> planetmaker: for OpenMSX
17:15:09  <Rubidium> make bundle_src
17:15:10  <Rubidium> /bin/sh: scripts/midifiles.py: not found
17:15:23  <planetmaker> hm... let's see
17:16:23  <planetmaker> but... that file is there, isn't it?
17:16:43  <planetmaker> strange
17:16:55  <Rubidium> yes, it is
17:17:56  <Rubidium> it's not available in the 'source' directory though
17:18:24  <Rubidium> i.e. the make mrproper of bundle_src 'causes' it
17:19:36  <Rubidium> planetmaker: how's poking the base set translators for openmsx going?
17:20:10  <planetmaker> uhm... next question please :-) I should have written the pm... but.. somehow... ;-)
17:24:50  <planetmaker> hm... I guess I need to probe the dir which I'm currently in...
17:34:32  <Webster> Latest update from devactivity: 2cc train set - Revision 456: Fix: The newly added steamers had wrong vehicle shorterning <http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/2cctrainset/repository/revisions/456> || 2cc train set - Revision 455: add: 140c steamer <http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/2cctrainset/repository/revisions/455>
17:36:09  <planetmaker> Thx, Rubidium, was actually the omission of the whole scripts dir.
17:36:33  <planetmaker> bad bad omission ;-)
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17:49:34  <Webster> Latest update from devactivity: OpenMSX - Revision 2: Fix: script dir was not made part of the source distribution <http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/openmsx/repository/revisions/2>
18:16:13  <Frankr> DJNekkid: What is your profitability roughly for your Chimera
18:16:19  <Frankr> percentage wise
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18:19:17  <DJNekkid> profitable
18:19:31  <DJNekkid> hehe
18:21:27  <Frankr> would you have any rough guess at the breakeven
18:21:35  <Frankr> loadage that is
18:22:25  <Ammler> svindal is a cool guy
18:23:37  <Ammler> we need a kind of luck for the 2nd race :-)
18:24:19  <Frankr> DJNekkid did you cut costs by half because i'm think of raising costs
18:24:32  <Frankr> :)
18:31:01  <Frankr> Right how does this sound for a plane
18:31:36  <Frankr> A380 343800/yr, A380F 428000/yr
18:34:12  <DJNekkid> i doubt that freighter will be profitable, but im not sure...
18:34:20  <DJNekkid> and not, i've not cut costs yet
18:34:24  <DJNekkid> but as i've saied before ...
18:34:45  <DJNekkid> find out what the fuel usage on the different plane models are...
18:34:55  <DJNekkid> and base the costs on that
18:35:03  <DJNekkid> as that is the biggest factor of all...
18:35:04  <Frankr> i am doing
18:35:25  <Frankr> i'm just altering the algorithm as costs were too low
18:35:58  <DJNekkid> well ... playtest!
18:36:04  <Frankr> i did a test on a plane (2048*2048, profitability was at 25% loadage)
18:37:16  <Rubidium> does that include depreciation?
18:38:41  <Frankr> well included depreciation it was about 30-35%
18:39:12  <Frankr> ROI was about 3yrs max
18:40:23  <Frankr> i want to make planes more balanced as nearly everyone who plays the game do not like planes
18:40:49  <DJNekkid> indeed!
18:41:19  <DJNekkid> and what i do want for planes is actually useable ones
18:41:20  <Frankr> because of there stupid profitability, so i am trying to balance them but maybe i'm over compensating i don't know
18:41:37  <Frankr> useable?
18:41:52  <DJNekkid> well, sort of like in the 2cc set
18:41:57  <DJNekkid> not one single MU is "best"
18:43:12  <Frankr> yh
18:43:22  <Frankr> i am trying to do just that
18:43:33  <DJNekkid> and with the new wagon "design speed"
18:43:37  <DJNekkid> there is no best engine either
18:43:39  <Frankr> not just A380's littering the skys
18:44:03  <DJNekkid> add in the nutracks and you actually will use alot of engine in a single game
18:44:25  <DJNekkid> and with high running costs, one needs to choose carefully what plane to use
18:44:55  <Frankr> for example a 737-100 will cost 60k a yr
18:44:58  <Frankr> to run
18:45:11  <DJNekkid> but what i think you need to factor in ...
18:45:33  <DJNekkid> newer planes are more costeffective then old planes
18:45:43  <DJNekkid> this goes for 80's planes vs 2000's planes
18:45:51  <DJNekkid> and 60's planes vs 80's planes
18:45:53  <Frankr> yh, that will be factored in on fuel efficiency
18:47:48  <DJNekkid> so, a 737-100 should be more expensive to run then a 737-500 (or whatever the NG one is)
18:48:03  <DJNekkid> but cheaper to buy
18:48:19  <Frankr> well the running costs are also based on the pax carried
18:48:31  <Frankr> the 737-800, 900
18:48:41  <Frankr> and 700 i think
18:48:49  <Frankr> 100, 200, 300 old
18:49:03  <Frankr> 400, 500, 600 classic, blah new
18:49:23  <DJNekkid> hehe :)
18:49:27  <DJNekkid> well
18:49:44  <DJNekkid> as we dont have any posibility to calculate in range...
18:49:54  <Frankr> unfortunately not
18:50:19  <Frankr> i may post on that feature request
18:50:34  <Frankr> see if it goes anywhere
18:50:36  <DJNekkid> i BET its done before from pikka...
18:51:23  <Frankr> lol
18:52:29  <Frankr> Phazorx did it
18:52:41  <Frankr> in May 2007
18:52:58  <Frankr> so i think maybe it does need a push again
18:54:08  <DJNekkid> it might
18:54:12  <DJNekkid> but either way
18:54:16  <DJNekkid> lets work with what we got
18:54:30  <DJNekkid> and if something tags along sometime, it gets added
18:54:37  <DJNekkid> for example the Railtypes
18:54:41  <Frankr> yh
18:54:44  <DJNekkid> i had a dream 3years ago
18:54:49  <DJNekkid> now its here
18:54:50  <DJNekkid> :)
18:55:07  <Frankr> it would balance them further but i will make do with what i have
18:55:17  <Frankr> what was that dream DJ
18:55:28  <DJNekkid> Railtypes...
18:55:35  <Frankr> :)
18:55:36  <DJNekkid> or rather ... overexpensive maglev tracks :)
18:55:42  <Frankr> lol
18:56:11  <DJNekkid> now my next dream is word size purchase and running costs
18:56:14  <DJNekkid> hehe
18:56:17  <Frankr> lol
18:56:33  <Frankr> more varied thn
18:59:51  <DJNekkid> but:
19:00:11  <DJNekkid> a running cost algorythm is still fun to make...
19:00:28  <Frankr> :) , also a pain
19:00:46  <DJNekkid> fun pain :)
19:00:55  <Frankr> yh
19:02:44  <Frankr> DJNekkid
19:02:50  <DJNekkid> do you use the was.xls i once made as a base?
19:03:40  <Frankr> how hard is it to add text into purchase screen i haven't looked into it yet but i think it may be a gd idea to put each livery the plane has in
19:04:20  <DJNekkid> just a callback
19:04:22  <Frankr> it is still used, but i've just made a new one for the costs and i may add them to it
19:04:42  <Frankr> ok thanks, i'll look into that then
19:06:42  <DJNekkid> gimme a sec
19:08:51  <DJNekkid> Frankr:  http://paste.openttd.org/224778
19:09:56  <Frankr> ok, thanks DJNekkid, your a great help once again
19:11:01  <DJNekkid> if that made any sense
19:12:08  <Frankr> yh, textid meaning actual text
19:12:26  <DJNekkid> the corresponding action4 ...
19:12:52  <Frankr> ok
19:14:01  <Frankr> yh it makes sense, thanks
19:14:39  <DJNekkid> -1 * 0  04 00 <LANG_ID2> \b1 \wxD0<xx>        "<String>"      00
19:14:59  <DJNekkid> btw, just remember, you might need to change the featurebyte (the first 00)
19:17:55  <Frankr> ok
19:23:17  * Frankr is off for a while for tea
19:26:39  <DJNekkid> bah, the quality of the sprites on the steamers suck!
19:26:48  <DJNekkid> atleast snails...
19:26:53  <DJNekkid> the lengths dont match!
19:39:34  <Webster> Latest update from devactivity: 2cc train set - Revision 457: Add: 141TA steamer <http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/2cctrainset/repository/revisions/457>
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20:10:34  <Webster> Latest update from devactivity: 2cc train set - Revision 458: Add: iORE <http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/2cctrainset/repository/revisions/458>
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20:38:35  <Frankr> lol, DJNekkid
20:38:53  <Frankr> (snails steamers)
21:53:16  <Ammler> DJNekkid: concratulation for your double medaille :-P
21:53:35  <Ammler> that was a awesome race
21:57:42  <DJNekkid> yea! a real thriller!
21:58:11  <DJNekkid> btw Frankr: an idea for you:
21:58:23  <DJNekkid> make Leaseable ACs
21:58:47  <DJNekkid> P-cost is divided over the next 3 years
21:59:05  <DJNekkid> or 5
21:59:07  <DJNekkid> or something
22:00:00  <DJNekkid> after that they are normal..
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22:16:22  <Ammler> DJNekkid: both do speak quite well German, they are cool and nice :-)
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23:45:53  <Frankr> DJNekkid you still on?
23:51:02  <Frankr> thats a shame

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