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Log for #openttdcoop.devzone on 13th March 2010:
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00:35:32  <Rubidium> go pm! :)
00:36:56  <Webster> Latest update from devactivity: OpenMSX - Revision 22: Feature: Add 10 new songs as modern theme (Music by Tistou Blomberg) <http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/openmsx/repository/revisions/22>
01:04:26  <planetmaker> hm, Rubidium ?
01:04:34  <V453000> o_O u still here?
01:04:57  <planetmaker> well... just dropping by shortly ;-)
01:05:15  <planetmaker> and adding 10 songs to OpenMSX on the fly :-P
01:05:19  <Rubidium> planetmaker: saw your openmsx commit before webster spoke about it :)
01:05:25  <planetmaker> ah :-)
01:05:40  <Rubidium> could you check your logs at 20:30 CET?
01:06:01  <planetmaker> yeah, that person who posted that bundle. The composer wrote that he's fine with using everything for this set... so I'm happy :-)
01:06:07  <planetmaker> IRC logs?
01:06:17  <Rubidium> planetmaker: yes, of this channel
01:06:29  <planetmaker> ah.
01:07:02  <planetmaker> Well. What would be the day before 1.0.0? ;-)
01:07:23  <Rubidium> end of this month
01:07:49  <Rubidium> just extrapolate the last few 1.0.0 releases and you'll get a fairly clear picture :)
01:08:11  <planetmaker> ok, I thought so. Ammler is right that that I'm away as of Monday through Saturday
01:08:32  <planetmaker> I might get a bit more done the week following then.
01:09:23  <planetmaker> I thought about the last weekend of March
01:09:50  <Rubidium> that sounds good
01:09:53  <planetmaker> for preparing the next release with whatever made its way into the set by then
01:10:16  <planetmaker> I hope for the houses re-alignment and the toyland engines. Maybe also toyland RV
01:11:36  <Rubidium> OpenSFX will definitely be a 0.2.2 (nothing but documentation/translations changed)
01:11:58  <Rubidium> oh... and the makefiles :)
01:12:09  <planetmaker> Well, people convinced me that changing the version scheme is not worth it for the base sets
01:13:14  <planetmaker> so... this will be 0.2.2, too. Though ... with new unique toyland sprites and re-aligned houses it might even be 0.3. Dunno yet :-)
01:14:09  <Rubidium> OpenGFX has at least some changes that might warrant bumping the minor version
01:14:18  <planetmaker> yeah
01:14:48  <planetmaker> we'll see how much :-) - I hope I get many vehicles / trains aligned by then. It's a true bitch :S
01:15:22  <Rubidium> on the other hand: changing sprites could be seen as 'fixes' and adding sprites could be seen as 'features'. So when adding sprites you can bump the minor, otherwise it's just a bugfix release
01:15:56  <planetmaker> and we still need better signals which is kinda important, too. - yeah, good point
01:16:13  <Rubidium> but then again, many realigns might be a significant enough bug fix to make a bigger bump
01:17:03  <planetmaker> I guess I'll decide (or ask around) when I prepare the changelog :-)
01:17:23  * Rubidium is happy it's easier for OpenTTD :)
01:17:30  <planetmaker> :-)
01:18:01  * planetmaker wishes the decision on what version bump to use was the most difficult work to do ;-)
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01:20:24  <Yexo> planetmaker: after looking at the hangars again, I think ChillCore has a good point and they are indeed 1px too high
01:20:52  <planetmaker> Yexo: you mean the offset is 1px too high?
01:20:57  <Yexo> yes
01:21:34  <planetmaker> ok, I'll look at it again and most probable then move them down a px each.
01:21:51  <Yexo> maybe also a pixel too far too the right
01:21:53  <Yexo> hard to see
01:22:05  <planetmaker> any good place where I see the front border of the hangar?
01:22:15  <planetmaker> and the back border?
01:23:19  <Yexo> http://devs.openttd.org/~yexo/hangar-front.png
01:26:08  <Yexo> http://devs.openttd.org/~yexo/hangar-back.png this is without the fix for the back site you committed yesterday
01:26:46  <Yexo> but that moved the back one pixel to the left and one pixel down, then it's still on top of the grass of the tile behind it
01:26:58  <Yexo> so both the front and back part should be moved another pixel left and down
01:28:22  <planetmaker> yeah, looking at those images I do agree. Thanks for the images :-)
01:44:28  <planetmaker> though... I'm not sure it not only needs shifting left.
01:44:36  <planetmaker> maybe even by 2px
01:46:23  <Yexo> 2px left and 1px down might be correct, only 2px left will move the left side of the front on the tile above it
01:50:40  <planetmaker> well... http://img.openttdcoop.org/images/bildschfh.png <-- that doesn't really look wrong
01:51:18  <planetmaker> though I know what you mean. Otherwise we move it onto the tile in front of it
01:51:30  <planetmaker> seems that the hangar is 1px too long rather
01:54:38  <planetmaker> Question now: 1px overlap in the back, 1px in the front or go for the joy of editing hangars ;-)
01:57:26  <planetmaker> http://img.openttdcoop.org/images/bildscrhr.png <-- another hangar with just 2px moved to the left
01:58:31  <planetmaker> personally I think a glitch in the front will show easier than in the back
01:59:33  <Yexo> in that second image it looks as if the hangar is even 2px too long
01:59:47  <Yexo> I agree, better make suer the front is ok
02:01:29  <planetmaker> hm, but the issue needs to be addressed at sprite level eventually
02:02:05  <planetmaker> but the catchment area highlight is a good alignment help :-)
02:03:04  <planetmaker> he... I won the airport alignment test game :-P
02:03:33  <Yexo> hehe
02:05:27  <Yexo> another issue with the hangar is that that the right-front is wider then the left-front
02:06:44  <planetmaker> true. I made an airport hangar issue so that it won't become forgotten.
02:09:07  <planetmaker> I'll commit the 2px alignment change, though
02:09:18  <Yexo> ok
02:09:27  <Yexo> then I'll do the same for airportsplus
02:09:33  <planetmaker> :-)
02:09:49  <Webster> Latest update from devactivity: OpenGFX - Bug #809 (Rejected): size of airport hangar <http://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/809#change-2209" target="_blank">http://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/809#change-2209> || OpenGFX - Bug #810 (Confirmed): sprite of airport hangar <http://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/810> || OpenGFX - Bug #809 (Rejected): size of airport hangar <http://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/809>
02:12:25  <planetmaker> and now I'll commit myself to bed. Have a good night :-)
02:12:51  <Yexo> same for me
02:12:53  <Yexo> gn
02:25:20  <Webster> Latest update from devactivity: OpenGFX - Revision 327: Fix (r324): Hangars were slightly mis-aligned. They still need shortening. <http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/opengfx/repository/revisions/327>
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08:33:05  <Ammler> planetmaker: I have an idea
08:33:52  <Ammler> what about reviving the authors overview
08:34:05  <Ammler> replace "Done" with "reviewed"
09:04:35  <andythenorth> Ammler: http://bundles.openttdcoop.org/download.php?file=firs/nightlies/compile-log/firs-nightly-r606-compile-error.log
09:13:03  <Ammler> andythenorth: empty? :-P
09:14:43  <andythenorth> Ammler: yup
09:16:40  <Ammler> did you silence it or fix?
09:42:37  <planetmaker> good morning
09:42:39  <planetmaker> Ammler: good idea with authors overview
09:43:41  <Ammler> andythenorth: do you suggest to update bananas grf?
09:49:09  <andythenorth> Ammler: no
09:49:40  <andythenorth> I'm working up to a 'proper' release, it will take a little time :)
09:51:45  <planetmaker> andythenorth: for the sake of playtesting I uploaded r600 to bananas; people kept coming up with reports wrt that old version which was found there
09:52:12  <planetmaker> (a few days ago)
09:52:36  <andythenorth> planetmaker: interesting.  That's fine.  I'm thinking of bumping the grfid soon though, the likelihood of breaking save games is high
09:54:17  <planetmaker> well, yes, it's probably 100%. But it should only be done when necessaray. Or otherwise then prior to the real release
09:54:49  <planetmaker> when = at the time when
09:56:10  <andythenorth> What 'version' have we released so far?
09:56:15  <andythenorth> 0.1?
09:56:29  <planetmaker> none
09:56:40  <planetmaker> r217a and r600 afaik
09:57:26  <andythenorth> well great :)  I am working towards a 0.1 release
09:57:35  <planetmaker> :-)
09:57:51  <planetmaker> hg tags will tells you
09:58:20  <planetmaker> yeah, none
10:01:54  <andythenorth> 0.1 will be a stable codebase, no broken chains, no huge obvious bugs
10:02:13  <andythenorth> With a 'basic' and 'extreme' economy
10:02:47  <Ammler> you didn't make a release yet
10:02:53  <Ammler> so no real need to bump id
10:06:09  <andythenorth> we'll bump at 0.1.  Or not.  I'll take advice on that from you guys :)
10:07:28  <Webster> Latest update from devactivity: FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Feature #298: parameters <http://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/298#change-2211> || FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Feature #793 (Closed): Change Primary Boost Supplies to Monthly D... <http://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/793#change-2210>
10:10:11  <Ammler> everyone knows, that nightlies can break save games, I wouldn't bump for those, but you should, if releases get incompatible...
10:10:52  <andythenorth> I think I'd like the 0.1 release to be incompatible with old nightlies - to prevent bug reports due to old savegames
10:12:11  <planetmaker> current nightlies are already incompatible with old nightlies, yes
10:12:22  <planetmaker> if I load old test games, I get nice crashes
10:15:33  <planetmaker> andythenorth: also I don't think that you break savegame compatibility by changing how cargos are treated
10:16:03  <planetmaker> you possibly break it though, if you change tileIDs, industryIDs and make it difficult at least, if you change accepted cargo
10:16:38  <planetmaker> internal stuff like CB and processing speed don't matter. I don't know, though, about stockpiles
10:22:42  <Webster> Latest update from devactivity: FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Feature #596 (Closed): Primary Industry Production Boosting Behav... <http://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/596#change-2215> || FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Feature #596: Primary Industry Production Boosting Behaviour <http://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/596#change-2214>
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12:12:24  <Webster> Latest update from devactivity: OpenMSX - Revision 27: Update: Changelog <http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/openmsx/repository/revisions/27> || OpenMSX - Revision 26: Fix: Add all required files <http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/openmsx/repository/revisions/26> || OpenMSX - Revision 25: Change: .hgignore some more <http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/openmsx/repository/revisions/25> || OpenMSX - Revision 24: Added tag 0.2.0 for changeset 59b4651da778 <http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/openmsx/repository/revisions/24> || OpenMSX - Revision 23: Update: Changelog <http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/openmsx/repository/revisions/23>
14:01:08  <Webster> Latest update from devactivity: World Airliners Set - Revision 623: Major Changes to New Coding Table <http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/worldairlineset/repository/revisions/623>
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14:47:53  <Webster> Latest update from devactivity: World Airliners Set - Revision 624: New Formula Changes to Coding Table <http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/worldairlineset/repository/revisions/624>
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15:49:29  <Webster> Latest update from devactivity: World Airliners Set - Revision 625: Table Cell Locking <http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/worldairlineset/repository/revisions/625>
16:37:34  <Webster> Latest update from devactivity: World Airliners Set - Revision 626: Added New Data to Input Tab <http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/worldairlineset/repository/revisions/626>
17:09:39  <Webster> Latest update from devactivity: World Airliners Set - Revision 627: Added More New Data to Input Tab <http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/worldairlineset/repository/revisions/627>
17:20:44  <Ammler> planetmaker: // Recolour: STRUCT_BLUE, STRUCT_WHITE <-- does mean, this house could use a feature to recolor?
17:21:15  <planetmaker> Ammler: yes
17:21:28  <Ammler> so ticket #758 is still valid, also if I do resolve #669
17:22:13  <Ammler> it would bring a bit more variety to the houses....
17:22:55  <Ammler> I assume, Zeph missunderstood #758
17:23:51  <planetmaker> seems like
17:30:10  <Ammler> I get no TTDViewer.sh
17:34:03  <Ammler> hmm, it doesn't support that anyway, I suppose?
17:41:39  <Webster> Latest update from devactivity: OpenGFX - Feature #758: ogfx1_base: 1467:1469 old offices <http://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/758#change-2217>
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18:03:55  <Ammler> planetmaker: possible to use templates in opengfx?
18:05:55  <planetmaker> yes
18:06:19  <Ammler> do you already?
18:06:30  <planetmaker> Not yet.
18:06:48  <planetmaker> At least not in the public repo :-P
18:07:06  <planetmaker> In my local one I do ;-)
18:07:25  <Ammler> hmm, you have a fork?
18:07:39  <planetmaker> not really. it's uncommited changes
18:07:57  <planetmaker> but they're not ready to be commited
18:08:09  <planetmaker> some engine templates
18:08:15  <Ammler> well, might be an idea to push
18:08:34  <planetmaker> no. It's mess up graphics as is
18:08:40  <Ammler> ok
18:08:54  <planetmaker> but if you like to introduce them for the houses: please go for it.
18:09:37  <planetmaker> most it's the non-templated graphics which stop the usage of nfo templates
18:10:11  <Ammler> nutracks is best example for usage?
18:11:40  <Ammler> btw. you should really consider to change the method fro bundle_src to define "excludes" instead includes
18:13:16  <Ammler> also it is a good idea, to put the house sprites in subfolder? (sprites/pcx/houses)
18:13:54  <Ammler> hmm, maybe also define the file: sprites/pcx/base/houses
18:14:16  <Ammler> no
18:14:44  <Ammler> there might be pcx with differn types in it.
18:15:58  <planetmaker> yes, it's a good idea to put the sprites in their own houses sub folder
18:16:42  <Ammler> also if the png already has correct colors, is there a fast way to convert to pcx?
18:16:44  <planetmaker> FIRS is a good template example usually. But nutracks should as well, I think
18:17:09  <planetmaker> he... imagemagic maybe? I always use(d) gimp
18:17:12  <Ammler> FIRS does have the templates outside from src, which I don't like so much
18:17:21  <planetmaker> yes, that's true
18:17:30  <planetmaker> better in src
18:17:32  <Ammler> or sprites
18:17:42  <planetmaker> src == sprites ;-)
18:18:01  <planetmaker> label them tnfo
18:18:10  <Ammler> hmm
18:18:19  <planetmaker> blubber.tnfo
18:18:31  <planetmaker> maybe also in sprites/templates
18:18:34  <planetmaker> dunno really
18:18:40  <Ammler> sprites is more like objs
18:18:49  <planetmaker> hu?
18:19:03  <Ammler> we generate files in there
18:19:35  <planetmaker> well, yes...
18:19:57  <Ammler> :-P
18:21:45  <planetmaker> then create sprites/templates
18:22:06  <planetmaker> and files à la sprites/templates/house_1x1.tnfo
18:22:28  <Ammler> yes
18:23:33  <planetmaker> but please make clear in ogfx1_base.pnfo which sprites are being defined
18:23:47  <Ammler> how you mean?
18:23:58  <planetmaker> comment the sprites what it is :-)
18:24:12  <planetmaker>  // small church
18:24:21  <Ammler> of course, and the #
18:24:22  <planetmaker>  // small house for outskirts
18:24:40  <Ammler> well, how do I know?
18:24:40  <planetmaker> etc :-) Better than just sprite numbers - which should be there, too.
18:25:03  <planetmaker> well, didn't you look at the sprites which you rework?
18:25:30  <Ammler> hmm, the original sprites I could check, indeed.
18:25:56  <Ammler> but houses are already quite good commented at least some...
18:26:14  <planetmaker> well, yes, often :-) It was more a general remark ;-)
18:26:21  <planetmaker> the vehicles I work with are not
18:26:23  <Ammler> uk houses looks all like the ohers
18:26:30  <planetmaker> There I have // rail engines
18:26:46  <planetmaker> and then a list of sprites. Oh, yes. Nice... which one now? ;-)
18:26:55  <Ammler> I know
18:27:06  <Ammler> I worked there too :-P
18:27:16  <planetmaker> :-P
18:27:20  <Ammler> but I should have commented those, didn't I?
18:27:52  <Ammler> hmmm, maybe only in my newgrf?
18:27:56  <planetmaker> well... would have been nice. If something's being re-worked to add verbose comments at the same time?
18:28:13  <planetmaker> s/?/./
18:28:15  <Ammler> as said, I thought I did
18:28:45  <planetmaker> well, toyland has rail engines and monorail commented but not which is which. Maybe elsewhere is. Dunno now
18:29:01  <planetmaker> Don't consider this a complaint wrt you :-)
18:29:22  <planetmaker> It's just general that I notice quite often that I don't find my way quickly
18:29:32  <Ammler> well
18:29:38  <planetmaker> Other example: what is the hangar? Oh, yes, sprite 26 and 25.
18:29:46  <Ammler> I have a decoded pcx
18:29:47  <planetmaker> And I forgot to comment myself ;-)
18:30:14  <planetmaker> yes, true. But sometimes I don't want the need to open the pcx
18:30:28  <Ammler> and the authoroverview helps also
18:30:37  <planetmaker> moderately
18:30:54  <planetmaker> it should IMO be clear from the main pnfo what a sprite represents
18:31:21  <planetmaker> of course there are always ways to find out. It's just a question how long they are. And need be.
18:31:58  <Ammler> yeah, well the initial nfo was a collection of decoded newgrfs, so
18:32:10  <planetmaker> I know
18:32:38  <planetmaker> And sometimes the old sprite numbers in the pnfo are the only means to quickly find out what sprite is what. But that should change. IMHO
18:34:44  <Ammler> maybe, we could also consider to use image magick
18:34:54  <Ammler> to convert png to pcx on building?
18:35:20  <planetmaker> hm... not sure windows people will like it.
18:35:58  <Ammler> I feel a bit dump, if I need to open a png in gimp just for save again
18:36:21  <planetmaker> While I prefer png myself, too - and if only for the obvious reason that it can be viewed in the browser and easily posted - it's not the thing to change right now.
18:36:47  <planetmaker> rather I'd like to see grfcodec support png natively
18:37:57  <Rubidium> # 'just' code it :)
18:38:12  <planetmaker> I know. And I even might
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18:39:04  <planetmaker> The actual implementation being done is the only thing stopping it being added as I understood it.
18:48:22  <Ammler> I guess, the issue is with how much different a png can be
18:48:47  <Ammler> I mean, just check the options you get, if you save as png
18:48:55  <Ammler> and compare with pcx :-)
18:51:06  <planetmaker> well. Libpng offers quite easy access to the specs and one can check for those being fulfilled
18:51:24  <planetmaker> All that needs 'just' doing ;-)
18:51:47  <planetmaker> also the pcx doesn't decode properly on my mac, so it's somewhat broken ;-)
18:51:58  <Ammler> yeah, but if get a pcx, you know, it is fine
18:52:05  <Ammler> but a png can be everything
18:52:22  <Ammler> oh
18:53:43  <planetmaker> well... pcx can be different colour depth etc, too
19:00:26  <planetmaker> hm, at least png, dunno pcx yet :-)
19:04:07  <SmatZ> iirc, pcx can be 4-bit and 8-bit ;)
19:05:30  <planetmaker> SmatZ: I see 1,2,4,8 in the specs I found
19:06:32  <SmatZ> planetmaker: can be :)
19:14:51  <Webster> Latest update from devactivity: TTDViewer - Revision 10: -Add: Support for climate dependant recolorings. <http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/ttdviewer/repository/revisions/10> || TTDViewer - Revision 9: -Codechange: Replace Toyland-bool with Climate-enum. <http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/ttdviewer/repository/revisions/9> || TTDViewer - Revision 8: -Codechange: Deduplicate attribute definitions by using an attributegroup. <http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/ttdviewer/repository/revisions/8> || TTDViewer - Revision 7: -Add: Show hg version and date in window title. <http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/ttdviewer/repository/revisions/7>
19:38:50  <Ammler> what is target .PHONY for?
19:39:28  <planetmaker> those are targets which are no files
19:39:50  <planetmaker> otherwise make would think all is fine if you call 'make all' and a file 'all' exists
19:40:23  <Ammler> ok, thanks :-)
19:40:30  <planetmaker> you're welcome
19:40:40  <Ammler> you don't run that target :-P
19:40:50  <planetmaker> hm?
19:41:07  <Ammler> I thought, it is something like a "I want to test all my Makefile targets at once" target
19:45:19  <planetmaker> nope :-)
21:09:32  <DJNekkid> just some advertiseing for myself...
21:09:56  <DJNekkid> www.clublife.no/tv live from a club from about midnight
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22:06:53  <Webster> Latest update from devactivity: Modern Station Set - Revision 2: Added the readme files Red*Star was preparing earlier <http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/modernstationset/repository/revisions/2>
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23:26:48  <Webster> Latest update from devactivity: FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Bug #811 (New): Inappropriate refits for NARS with FIRS <http://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/811>

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