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Log for #openttdcoop.devzone on 26th August 2010:
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06:29:39  <Brot6> Example NewGRF Project - Feature #870 (Closed): Support branches within a repository (planetmaker) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/870#change-3448
06:33:50  <planetmaker> Yexo: thanks for the offer to translate Swedish Rails. I recommend though to wait till I actually have it implemented. When I played with it yesterday it seemd that I might change some strings slightly
06:34:31  <planetmaker> The parameters were not really well taylored for what we have now :-)
06:49:30  <Brot6> NewGRFs - Feature #292 (Closed): use make depend in the build system (planetmaker) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/292#change-3449
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10:05:08  <Brot6> OpenGFX - Feature #1263: Toyland Rough Land (2006TTD) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/1263#change-3451
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10:42:43  <Brot6> OpenGFX - Feature #1263: Toyland Rough Land (planetmaker) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/1263#change-3452
10:42:43  <Brot6> OpenGFX - Feature #1255: Gumdrops (planetmaker) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/1255#change-3453
10:50:41  <Brot6> OpenGFX - Feature #1263: Toyland Rough Land (2006TTD) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/1263#change-3455
10:55:53  <Brot6> OpenGFX - Feature #1263: Toyland Rough Land (2006TTD) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/1263#change-3455
10:59:59  <Brot6> OpenGFX - Feature #1263: Toyland Rough Land (2006TTD) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/1263#change-3455
11:04:40  <Brot6> OpenGFX - Feature #1255: Gumdrops (2006TTD) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/1255#change-3456
11:07:36  <Brot6> OpenGFX - Feature #1263: Toyland Rough Land (planetmaker) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/1263#change-3457
11:08:35  <Brot6> OpenGFX - Feature #1263: Toyland Rough Land (planetmaker) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/1263#change-3457
11:50:16  <Brot6> OpenGFX - Support #1304: Mission statement (2006TTD) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/1304#change-3458
11:52:38  <Brot6> OpenGFX - Feature #1263: Toyland Rough Land (2006TTD) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/1263#change-3459
11:54:05  * Rubidium wonders whether he should complain about translation "errors" in the regression code, or just laugh at them :)
11:54:16  <Brot6> OpenGFX - Feature #1255: Gumdrops (2006TTD) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/1255#change-3456
11:54:19  <Rubidium> "STR_REGRESSION_ERROR           :De wissels zijn bevroren, onze excuses voor het ongemak." :)
11:55:22  <planetmaker> I'd bet that string was written by a native speaker :-P
11:55:42  <Rubidium> yeah, but it's a quite bad translation of "Something bad (tm) has happened."
11:56:11  <Rubidium> It's more like "The switches are frozen, we apologize for the inconvenience"
11:57:17  <Brot6> OpenGFX - Feature #1255: Gumdrops (2006TTD) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/1255#change-3456
11:57:17  <Brot6> OpenGFX - Feature #1263: Toyland Rough Land (2006TTD) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/1263#change-3459
11:57:45  <planetmaker> hg tells me to blame Hirundo ;-)
11:58:26  <planetmaker> oh... ongemak = Ungemach ;-)
11:58:32  <planetmaker> what a nice word :-)
11:58:50  <Ammler> in both languages :-P
11:59:23  <Ammler> but rarly used in German, imo.
12:00:50  <planetmaker> yep. I'd say it's a word nearly died-out
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12:01:21  <Ammler> planetmaker: maybe we can also use a variant of those rough land for the industries ground (#885)
12:01:21  <Brot6> Ammler: planetmaker: #885 is http://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/show/885 "OpenGFX - Feature #885: Groundtile brack land (Toyland?) - #openttdcoop Development Zone"
12:02:19  <Ammler> that is something I quite dislike since we added the new fizzy factory
12:02:43  <Ammler> and the one used there isn't really better
12:03:05  <planetmaker> hm, yes. Maybe the brown version 2006TTD drew. Propose that :-)
12:03:08  <planetmaker> It's a good idea
12:03:23  <planetmaker> Like the sugar mine. That doesn't look bad with the blue-ish tiles
12:03:30  <Ammler> yep
12:04:01  <Ammler> I guess, I code that brack land in, then we see, where that does change the ground
12:04:20  <Ammler> I am a bit confused about those industry ground tiles
12:04:42  <Ammler> sprite picker could tell :-)
12:07:26  <Hirundo> planetmaker: Where did that string come from?
12:08:23  <Rubidium> if you're talking about the "bevroren wissels": NML's regression/lang/dutch.lng
12:11:05  <Hirundo> you're free to file a bug report :)
12:12:09  <planetmaker> Hirundo, hg blame in r268
12:12:22  <Ammler> or a feature request? spell checking?
12:12:24  <planetmaker> so a loooong time ago
12:14:31  <Rubidium> Ammler: after translating "lovely steak" to "scheisse" the spell checker wouldn't find an error in the translation even though it's a pretty bad translation
12:14:36  <planetmaker> sorry. r269
12:15:42  <planetmaker> Rubidium, we do that all the time, day after day ;-)
12:15:51  <planetmaker> And I'm quite happy doing so :-P
12:16:06  <planetmaker> And my 'spell checker' even tells me that it tastes good
12:16:13  <Ammler> well, I didn't cal it tranlating yet :-)
12:17:05  <Rubidium> planetmaker: you eat English and shit Swiss?
12:17:32  <Ammler> :-)
12:20:12  <planetmaker> :-D
12:20:44  <planetmaker> I thought of my personal translation from 'lovely steak' to 'shit' ;-)
12:25:24  <Hirundo> make sure to watch out for buffer overflows, though
12:27:58  <planetmaker> they happen :-P
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12:47:38  <FooBar> planetmaker: do you have an opinion on only having banks as industries in TTRS if the appropriate cargo is available? This will drop the current parameter to remove the banks and for the rest basically what I suggested at the end of this: http://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/1287
12:49:47  <FooBar> planetmaker: That will not break games in which the banks function normally, but in games with banks that accept sand the graphics will revert to normal TTD banks
12:51:01  <planetmaker> sounds acceptable to me
12:51:26  <planetmaker> you can assign the house part to me, if you like. I just need to know the parameter to check; maybe you can set one.
12:51:47  <planetmaker> I like the proposal to make them then available as houses, if they're not industries
13:03:30  <Brot6> NewGRF Meta Language - Feature #975 (Closed): grfstrings.get_string_size(s) != byte count of Outp... (yexo) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/975#change-3461
13:03:30  <Brot6> NewGRF Meta Language - Revision 679:d380ce5ca196: Change [#975]: add 'final_zero' and 'force_asci... (yexo) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/nml/repository/revisions/d380ce5ca196
13:07:10  <planetmaker> Yexo, I think we should reference issues without brackets ;-) At least that's the way it works (only) for "Fix #XXX: do stuff" which shall automatically close an issue ;-) Just telling
13:07:27  <Yexo> ok, thanks
13:07:46  <Yexo> it does reference them this way, but closing automatically doesn't work indeed
13:07:51  <planetmaker> yep
13:15:58  <Brot6> FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Revision 1263:fdf8b06f05c0: Codechange: use TTD strings where pos... (foobar) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/firs/repository/revisions/fdf8b06f05c0
13:15:58  <Brot6> FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Bug #1299 (Closed): Industries not using TTD strings when possible (foobar) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/1299#change-3462
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13:17:42  <FooBar> planetmaker: sorry about not replying, but: cool! I'll make the part where the house-banks need to go then as well, so you can "just" ploink it in ;)
13:23:58  <planetmaker> ok. But basically a parameter I can query would be enough
13:24:35  <planetmaker> Like an action7/9 with that parameter as decision
13:24:44  <planetmaker> But I won't stop you :-)
13:24:50  <FooBar> :)
13:25:19  <planetmaker> But I can easily transfer a bit code from my comic houses :-)
13:26:08  <FooBar> action 7/9 will be a bit complicated, because it needs to be something like (temperate && valuables) || (arctic && gold) || (tropic && diamonds)
13:27:02  <FooBar> I bet that needs at least 10 lines of action 7/9ses
13:27:08  <planetmaker> that's why I ask for action7 which can decide upon a parameter ;-)
13:27:17  <planetmaker> Hm... or was that actionD?
13:27:20  <planetmaker> hm...
13:27:41  <planetmaker> well. Any case, if there's the action 7 sequence once, it's easy to invert that :-P
13:27:59  <FooBar> action 7 can be based on parameter, but I rather not use a parameter if there's no real need for it
13:28:33  <planetmaker> calculating only once... though with proper jumps it's also only needed once.
13:28:35  <planetmaker> Still :-)
13:28:48  <planetmaker> NML would be soooo easy. One would write exactly what you quoted ;-)
13:29:06  <FooBar> then convert TTRS to NML first :P
13:29:12  <FooBar> I can wait ;)
13:29:24  <planetmaker> not TTRS3 :-)
13:29:36  <Hirundo> That'd require support for houses in NML in the first place
13:29:37  <planetmaker> Especially as NML doesn't yet do houses :-(
13:30:06  <FooBar> also because I just decided to rework the FIRS language system to merge remove_defines into nfo_lang and convert base_lang to the same format as other languages...
13:30:25  <FooBar> I probably don't know what I started, so it might take a while :P
13:31:08  * FooBar needs some regex
13:31:44  <planetmaker> nah, make the TTRS change first ;-)
13:31:57  <planetmaker> hm... so you re-work the language system?
13:32:06  <FooBar> yes, again :P
13:32:14  <planetmaker> what do you want to do?
13:32:18  <planetmaker> because...
13:32:45  <FooBar> In fact what happens now is if a language doesn't define all strings, it uses the english strings to define the particular string in that language
13:32:48  <planetmaker> http://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/1303 <-- it will break the work I've done there
13:33:19  <FooBar> what I want is that if languages don't define a string, they just don't define a string and use FF as fallback
13:33:41  <planetmaker> that's indeed a short-coming of the current system
13:33:50  <FooBar> my system will fix that
13:33:52  <planetmaker> hm... ok. I'll wait for you then :-)
13:34:03  <planetmaker> My task might become easier then, too ;-)
13:34:26  <planetmaker> though I'm not convinced of that :-P
13:34:34  <FooBar> I'll make it into a patch and let you see if it breaks your work
13:34:43  <FooBar> before actual commit
13:35:28  <Brot6> NewGRF Meta Language - Revision 680:b9c93e700417: Add: Some constants and a function to determine... (Hirundo) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/nml/repository/revisions/b9c93e700417
13:35:28  <Brot6> NewGRF Meta Language - Revision 681:21361b9f35e0: Feature: Add some type strictness to the expres... (Hirundo) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/nml/repository/revisions/21361b9f35e0
13:35:35  <planetmaker> My approach currently is to use a #ifdef SET_PARAMETS ... (use parameter template, action14) #else ... (use action4 template) #endif
13:36:18  <planetmaker> doing this in baselang.pnfo
13:36:35  <planetmaker> as I cannot do action4 before action8 and action14 not after action8
13:36:44  <FooBar> tue
13:36:51  <planetmaker> but we necessarily need one language file per language
13:36:51  <FooBar> *true
13:38:09  <FooBar> what I want is in nfo_lang: #ifdef TEXT_.+ (nfo to define string here) #undef TEXT_.+ #endif
13:38:23  <FooBar> and all language files just have strings and nothing else
13:38:31  <FooBar> and remove_defines doesn't exist any more
13:38:57  <FooBar> as it's undefined right after the nfo was inserted
13:39:13  <FooBar> and if it's not defined, the nfo will not be inserted either
13:39:27  <Ammler> doesn't openttd care already about missing strings of languages?
13:39:42  <FooBar> exactly, hence the change
13:40:11  <FooBar> currently all languages have a full set of strings, the missing ones replaced with english
13:40:37  <Ammler> you should also try to use the NML format
13:40:58  <FooBar> example?
13:42:03  <Ammler> http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/nml/repository/show/regression/lang
13:42:45  <FooBar> it will be similar, as we currently need #define
13:43:10  <FooBar> the NML format will need extra parsing which I don't fancy if it's not needed
13:43:15  <Ammler> you could add those with awk or sed
13:43:46  <Ammler> #define in the language file is ugly, imo
13:44:01  <FooBar> sure, but make is quicker if you don't need to add them. Also, when converting to NML the change is a simple matter of search-and-replace
13:44:17  <FooBar> so for now I rather keep it for the sake of a quicker make
13:44:40  <Ammler> I don't think, you will notice a sed over a file
13:45:10  <Ammler> so speed is no excuse :-P
13:45:20  <FooBar> speed is always an excuse :P
13:45:44  <Ammler> we talk about milliseconds
13:46:22  <FooBar> maybe it can be changed after this change, as it's not much work to change the default language file to nml format afte the current change
13:47:08  * FooBar knew the regex to use without looking it up :o
13:47:32  <planetmaker> apropos... how's the speed of the current makefile?
13:47:40  <FooBar> reasonable
13:47:47  <FooBar> about 25 seconds with all deps disabled
13:47:54  <Ammler> time sed "s/STR_/#define STR_/" default.lng is 0.004s
13:48:01  <planetmaker> what do you mean with 'all deps disabled'?
13:48:13  <FooBar> DEP_CHECK_TYPE     := none
13:48:17  <FooBar> ;)
13:48:31  <planetmaker> and with mdep?
13:48:38  <planetmaker> or none at all
13:48:47  <planetmaker> (which defaults then to mdep)?
13:49:15  <FooBar> let me try to finish the language stuff first, then I will run some benchmarks with different dep checks and let you know the results
13:49:40  <planetmaker> it should fail without any dep check
13:50:06  <Ammler> if nml and the pm Makefile would use same language format, it would also make the translators request easier
13:50:09  <FooBar> with above set it doesn't fail ;)
13:51:46  <planetmaker> it does. As long as you have an (old) Makefile.dep there
13:51:57  <planetmaker> it will work
13:53:32  <FooBar> even without it does generate a grf...
13:53:36  <FooBar> might that grf be faulty then?
13:54:45  <planetmaker> maybe
13:55:08  <planetmaker> Actually... probably. It doesn't generate then two required pnfo files
13:55:14  <planetmaker> I *think*
13:55:25  <planetmaker> But I didn't test it with a not-supported dep check ;-)
13:55:58  <planetmaker> there are two files mentioned in scripts/Makefile.in
13:56:06  <planetmaker> they might be missing or not updated in your case
13:56:45  <planetmaker> But I actually hope that mdep won't be really slow for you
13:56:52  <planetmaker> In my case it doubled speed nearly
13:57:13  <planetmaker> and Alberth kinda wrote it for you ;-)
13:59:46  <FooBar> I believe I told me that I was just as happy with no dep check at all :P
14:00:00  <FooBar> but I'll test in a short while
14:20:19  *** ChanServ sets mode: +o Webster
14:30:47  <Hirundo> grep xxx yyy > textfile isn't a smart idea, if textfile is in the search path :S
14:31:54  <Hirundo> I was amazed though, how well everything worked after several GB of data had been dumped into said file
14:33:55  <Brot6> FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Feature #1317 (Feedback): rework language system (foobar) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/1317
14:34:03  <FooBar> planetmaker: if you want you can check patch and let me know what you think when I get back ^
14:53:57  <planetmaker> lol @ Hirundo :-)
15:05:14  <Brot6> FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Feature #1317: rework language system (planetmaker) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/1317#change-3463
15:11:41  <Brot6> FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Feature #1317: rework language system (foobar) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/1317#change-3464
15:13:11  <FooBar> I'm running some makefile benchmarks now
15:14:31  <Brot6> FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Feature #1317: rework language system (planetmaker) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/1317#change-3465
15:18:53  <andythenorth> planetmaker: I'm getting about 7-8s for make
15:19:03  <Brot6> FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Feature #1317: rework language system (foobar) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/1317#change-3466
15:19:03  <andythenorth> interestingly make and make install run approx the same
15:19:25  <andythenorth> I run make clean in-between each test
15:20:23  <planetmaker> andythenorth, make install doesn't add much. It just adds a tar and copy command to the usual make
15:20:24  <FooBar> I did a manual clean between tests, removing the generated files as well as the grf, the dep and the rev.
15:20:52  <FooBar> planetmaker: here's my results http://pastebin.org/777643
15:21:19  <FooBar> doesn't look too good for either dep check, as no dep check is still around 50% faster than the fastest dep check...
15:21:24  <FooBar> guess which one I prefer ;)
15:21:27  <planetmaker> powers of two :-)
15:21:29  <andythenorth> about 7s for me with all dep, rev, .nfo removed
15:21:49  <andythenorth> I win :)
15:21:57  <andythenorth> my OS clearly superior :)
15:22:05  <andythenorth> however I have to build my own OTTD :(
15:22:12  <FooBar> your OS is probably not virtual ;)
15:22:17  <planetmaker> well, FooBar you can use what you want. But I've warned you that 'none' won't guarantee you to build always the correct thing [tm] ;-)
15:22:28  <FooBar> good, I can live with that
15:22:47  <planetmaker> I will not guarantee anything, nor will I guarantee that that continues to work ;-)
15:23:05  <FooBar> with no dep check it did generate the two pnfo files though
15:23:19  <planetmaker> interesting
15:23:30  <FooBar> if it doesn't continue to work, I might stick with version 4 of the makefile ;)
15:23:31  <planetmaker> but I don't know exactly where that's called for
15:24:03  <FooBar> not where the dep check is I suppose...
15:24:17  <planetmaker> maybe it's an explicit dep in Makefile.in
15:27:00  <planetmaker> here it's real=8, user=6
15:27:03  <planetmaker> real    0m8.832s
15:27:03  <planetmaker> user    0m5.796s
15:32:06  <FooBar> shall I commit the new translation stuff with the separate undefine file?
15:32:51  <FooBar> planetmaker: ^
15:34:10  <planetmaker> yes
15:34:19  <FooBar> cool :)
15:34:30  <planetmaker> :-)
15:37:09  <FooBar> now you can just copy a bit from the "any" file to some other language without having to remove all kinds of crap
15:38:04  <FooBar> dinner :)
15:38:06  <Brot6> FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Feature #1317 (Closed): rework language system (foobar) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/1317
15:38:06  <Brot6> FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Revision 1264:a776a4b5620c: Codechange: improve translation syste... (foobar) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/firs/repository/revisions/a776a4b5620c
15:38:06  <Brot6> FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Feature #1317 (Closed): rework language system (foobar) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/1317#change-3467
15:38:47  <planetmaker> <FooBar> now you can just copy a bit from the "any" file to some other language without having to remove all kinds of crap <-- which is quite awesome :-)
15:39:05  <planetmaker> I should consider to port this to 2cctrainset...
15:39:18  <planetmaker> and possibly the newgrf_makefile, too
16:20:57  <Brot6> firs: update from r1260 to r1264 done - http://bundles.openttdcoop.org/firs/nightlies/r1264
16:21:31  <FooBar> bye!
16:21:34  *** FooBar has quit IRC
16:22:05  <Brot6> grfcodec: update from r234 to r237 done - http://bundles.openttdcoop.org/grfcodec/nightlies/r237
16:22:35  <Brot6> newgrf_makefile: update from r164 to r165 done - http://bundles.openttdcoop.org/newgrf_makefile/nightlies/r165
16:24:21  <Brot6> nforenum: update from r474 to r476 done - http://bundles.openttdcoop.org/nforenum/nightlies/r476
16:25:17  <Brot6> nml: update from r678 to r681 done - http://bundles.openttdcoop.org/nml/nightlies/r681
16:25:43  <Brot6> swedishrails: compile of r147 failed - http://bundles.openttdcoop.org/swedishrails/nightlies/ERROR/r147
16:25:49  <Brot6> Following repos didn't need a nightlies update: 2cctrainset (r591), 32bpp-extra (r38), airportsplus (r53), basecosts (r20), comic-houses (r71), fish (r387), heqs (r372), metrotrackset (r56), nutracks (r98), ogfxplus (r41), opengfx (r502), openmsx (r97), opensfx (r97), snowlinemod (r36), transrapidtrackset (r15), ttdviewer (r25), worldairlinersset (r663)
16:31:07  <Brot6> 2cc train set - Bug #1318 (New): VL85 intro year (Voyager1) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/1318
16:33:31  <Brot6> 2cc train set - Bug #1319 (New): Koncar KDMV (Voyager1) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/1319
16:36:06  <Brot6> FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Revision 1265:8483651954ab: Fix: Unhelpful error message in toyla... (planetmaker) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/firs/repository/revisions/8483651954ab
16:37:14  <Brot6> swedishrails: compile of r147 failed - http://bundles.openttdcoop.org/swedishrails/nightlies/ERROR/r147
16:38:01  <Brot6> transrapidtrackset: rebuild of r15 done (Diffsize: 12) (DiffDiffsize: 7) - http://bundles.openttdcoop.org/transrapidtrackset/nightlies/r15/log
16:39:06  <Brot6> FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Revision 1266:c532b0bc4ef6: Change: Move also the climate check t... (planetmaker) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/firs/repository/revisions/c532b0bc4ef6
16:39:27  <Brot6> Following repos rebuilds successful without any difference to earlier nightlies builds: 2cctrainset (47 errors) (Diffsize: 1), 32bpp-extra (1 errors) (Diffsize: 13), airportsplus (Diffsize: 1), basecosts (Diffsize: 11), comic-houses (3 errors) (Diffsize: 13), firs, fish (5 errors) (Diffsize: 1), heqs (Diffsize: 1), metrotrackset (Diffsize: 1), newgrf_makefile, nutracks (Diffsize: 1), ogfxplus (Diffsize: 6), opengfx (Diffsize: 6),
16:39:27  <Brot6> snowlinemod (Diffsize: 1), worldairlinersset
16:40:41  <Ammler> cool, isn't it?
16:50:38  <planetmaker> I didn't up today understand what 'diffsize' tells me :-)
16:51:18  <Ammler> the diff from rebuild to the origin build
16:51:41  <Ammler> and diffdiff is the diff from 2 rebuild diffs
16:52:29  <planetmaker> http://bundles.openttdcoop.org/swedishrails/nightlies/ERROR/r147/swedishrails-r147-build.err.log <-- so that is the CF's final word on today's version of ser?
16:52:48  <Ammler> you don't agree?
16:53:25  <planetmaker> it compiled for me yesterday locally
16:53:25  <Ammler> please be a bit more verbose :-P
16:53:38  <Yexo> Hirundo broke it with one of the last two nml commits
16:53:39  <Ammler> there is a new nml in the meantime
16:53:51  <Ammler> :-)
16:54:46  <planetmaker> oh?
16:55:03  <planetmaker> hm. What got wrong?
16:55:17  <Yexo> don't know yet
16:55:26  <Ammler> Yexo: why did ogfxplus build successfully?
16:55:49  <Yexo> probably because swedishrails uses some expression type that ogfxplus doesn't
16:56:10  <Yexo> nml r679 builds ser succesfully, r681 does not
16:56:33  <planetmaker> oh. I didn't test that indeed
16:56:49  <planetmaker> ser is indeed making use of many more things than ogfxplus
16:57:00  <planetmaker> which is actually very straight forward currently
16:57:12  <planetmaker> or rather unsophisticated
17:00:17  <Brot6> NewGRF Meta Language - Revision 682:f1b505fec7a7: Fix (r681): Variable.param can be None (yexo) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/nml/repository/revisions/f1b505fec7a7
17:19:35  <Hirundo> Yexo: I've been working on some form of system for consistent scoping / identifier resolution
17:20:00  <Yexo> nice :)
17:20:01  <Hirundo> Question is: what should end up in the 'global scope', i.e. accessible from everywhere
17:20:51  <Hirundo> IMO, it makes sense to avoid polluting the global namespace with action2vars/action0properties
17:21:03  <Yexo> agreed
17:21:42  <Hirundo> the trouble is in edge cases like Action5 types, action12 font sizes, real sprite compression flags etc
17:22:18  <Yexo> I think a lot needs to be available in the global scope
17:22:37  <Yexo> I don't like it, but a lot of the constants are used by several actions
17:22:59  *** frosch123 has joined #openttdcoop.devzone
17:24:44  <Hirundo> Some of the very generic names will have to be renamed in that case
17:25:51  <Hirundo> e.g. 'NORMAL' font size would be 'FONT_NORMAL'
17:26:59  <Yexo> I don't think a constant like that needs to be in the global scope
17:27:04  <Yexo> after all it's only useful for fonts
17:27:36  <Yexo> I was thinking more about the current list in global_constants.py
17:28:52  <Hirundo> http://pastebin.com/SXXq1kAR <- these are all the definitions of identifiers I could find
17:30:12  <Yexo> only global_constants and maybe item.item_names need to be global I think
17:30:24  <Yexo> although general.feature_ids is used in a lot of places, but they're all well-defined
17:33:49  <Hirundo> I was thinking along the lines of param[1] = NOTICE; all future error messages using param[1] as severity
17:35:46  <Yexo> hmm, true
17:36:03  <Yexo> but then it'd have to be renamed to "ERROR_LEVEL_NOTICE"
17:37:35  <Hirundo> Then you'd be renaming a lot of those constants, so the common case requires extra typing
17:38:02  <Yexo> yes, but "NOTICE" in the global scope is certainly not a good idea
17:38:57  <Yexo> we could also have both "ERROR_LEVEL_NOTICE" (in the global scope) and "NOTICE" (works only in error-function in the severity expression)
17:39:44  <frosch123> hmm, looks like eis_os confused action2 and action3 :s
17:43:14  <Brot6> 2cc train set - Bug #1319: Koncar KDMV (DJNekkid) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/1319#change-3468
18:02:13  <Hirundo> Yexo: That'd only be confusing, I fear
18:18:55  <Brot6> swedishrails: compile of r147 failed - http://bundles.openttdcoop.org/swedishrails/nightlies/ERROR/r147
18:19:03  <Brot6> Swedish Rails - Bug #1321 (New): 78 (compiler) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/1321
18:19:33  <Ammler> hmm
18:20:48  <Brot6> swedishrails: compile of r147 failed - http://bundles.openttdcoop.org/swedishrails/nightlies/ERROR/r147
18:21:18  <Brot6> Swedish Rails - Bug #1322 (New): DevZone compile failed (compiler) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/1322
18:21:23  <Hirundo> you need to update nml
18:22:05  <Ammler> Hirundo: just testing auto-ticket-creating on failed compile
18:22:37  <Ammler> seems fine now
18:24:17  <planetmaker> :-P You open bugs for me ;-)
18:25:02  <planetmaker> hm. The "Assigned to" field should remain empty, Ammler
18:25:18  <DJNekkid> im gonna make some invisible engines for the nutrakcs... would some intro-dates (and i.e. introdates for the tracks itself) be smart, or should i just do year 0 ?
18:25:30  <Ammler> planetmaker: I assign it the last committer
18:25:39  <Ammler> that is the whole point
18:25:41  <planetmaker> which is "Anonymous"?
18:25:47  <Ammler> that is failed one
18:25:51  <Ammler> check #1322
18:25:51  <Brot6> Ammler: #1322 is http://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/show/1322 "Swedish Rails - Bug #1322: DevZone compile failed - #openttdcoop Development Zone"
18:26:04  <Ammler> I had a bug myself to fix :-P
18:26:14  <planetmaker> :-P
18:26:52  <planetmaker> hm, yes. Last person making a commit sounds reasonable
18:26:55  <Ammler> in this case the issue is on side of NML, but that I can't know, can I?
18:27:15  <Brot6> 2cc train set - Bug #1318 (Closed): VL85 intro year (Voyager1) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/1318
18:27:15  <Brot6> 2cc train set - Revision 592:a3f607e2bdb5: Fix: close #1318 (DJNekkid) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/2cctrainset/repository/revisions/a3f607e2bdb5
18:27:15  <Brot6> Swedish Rails - Bug #1322 (Rejected): DevZone compile failed (compiler) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/1322
18:27:15  <Brot6> 2cc train set - Bug #1318 (Closed): VL85 intro year (DJNekkid) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/1318#change-3469
18:27:17  <Brot6> Swedish Rails - Bug #1322 (Rejected): DevZone compile failed (planetmaker) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/1322#change-3470
18:28:34  <Ammler> planetmaker: this was a real bug ;-)
18:29:31  <Brot6> FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Feature #1317: rework language system (foobar) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/1317#change-3464
18:31:02  <planetmaker> was it?
18:32:38  <planetmaker> it compiles here with latest NML
18:33:04  <planetmaker> But yes, you cannot know that it is an NML bug.
18:33:18  <planetmaker> So I guess ticket creation for the single NML project is the proper thing
18:33:19  <Ammler> then you should tell that as reason to reject
18:33:55  <Ammler> reject without any reason is like deleting :-)
18:34:09  <planetmaker> :-) Which is fine as I consider that a test bug report
18:34:21  <planetmaker> In the normal case I agree
18:35:03  * Ammler gives Hirundo a cookie "Thanks for the test case" ;-)
18:36:30  <Ammler> Hmm, I could check on rebuild, if the project already failed, then the bug goes to the project, else to the required project
18:36:46  <planetmaker> :-)
18:37:03  <Ammler> later ;-)
18:37:11  <planetmaker> yep
18:37:15  <planetmaker> details
18:37:43  <Ammler> the assigny is for mail, btw.
18:37:59  <Ammler> else you wouldn't get a mail, I assume?
18:38:31  <frosch123> 		DrawGroundSprite(_landscape_clear_sprites_rough[GB(ti->x ^ ti->y, 4, 3)], PAL_NONE); <- planetmaker: all 5 tiles are used
18:39:32  <frosch123> but usually not next to each other
18:39:34  <planetmaker> oh. in which cases?
18:39:58  <frosch123> it just varies with the tilelocation
18:40:15  <frosch123> go 16 tiles in one direction and you should get a different one
18:40:34  <planetmaker> hm... so different ground sprites in toyland. But only on plain ground
18:40:45  <planetmaker> Interesting
18:40:53  <planetmaker> And only for rough landscape
18:40:56  <planetmaker> hm
18:41:42  <frosch123> yeah, itis kind of weird
18:41:47  <planetmaker> Ammler, correct, I only get mail when I watch, am assigned to or was the issue opener
18:42:08  <frosch123> usually you want different tiles next to each other, but if they alternate every 16 tiles noone will notice small differences
18:42:19  <planetmaker> indeed :-)
18:42:23  <Ammler> planetmaker: I assume, most have configured that way, me too
18:42:40  <Ammler> is it default?
18:42:42  <planetmaker> frosch123, Though that leads rather to patches of similar tiles
18:42:47  <planetmaker> Ammler, I don't think
18:42:59  <Ammler> default is mail on everything?
18:43:18  <planetmaker> IIRC
18:43:27  <Ammler> ok, well, still better :-)
18:43:46  <planetmaker> horrible
18:43:49  <planetmaker> :-)
18:43:50  <frosch123> well, maybe make them greenish, blueish, yellowish, cyanish, and pinkish?
18:44:00  <planetmaker> frosch123, thought of that :-)
18:44:11  <planetmaker> But... that's IMHO too much of a colour-spree
18:44:33  <frosch123> yeah, and it will make the same sloped tile too obious
18:44:35  <planetmaker> at least if they differ as strongly as the currently proposed rough and rock tiles
18:45:11  <planetmaker> But... I will play around with. Maybe with inverted pattern.
18:45:26  <planetmaker> Or just a hue of another colour. Might be interesting.
18:45:37  <planetmaker> Or I might assigne a few different colour schemes to 2006TTD :-P
18:48:01  <planetmaker> Ammler, .devzone needs nightlies/enable nightlies/requires. Does releases/requires also need to exist?
18:48:55  <planetmaker> or is automatically the requirements taken from the nightly dir?
18:48:57  <Ammler> planetmaker: you need those files only for projects not in .default
18:49:06  <planetmaker> hm?
18:49:09  <Ammler> if you like to define something special
18:49:17  <planetmaker> OpenGFX has those
18:50:22  <planetmaker> or in other words: which project is the example currently how to correctly enable nightlies and releases for an NFO-stlye project?
18:50:43  <Ammler> firs?
18:51:21  <planetmaker> hm, ok
18:51:50  <DJNekkid> in what rev (ottd) whs action14 and its GUI-support added?
18:51:53  <DJNekkid> *was
18:51:56  <Ammler> I would add type nfo
18:52:24  <planetmaker> DJNekkid, doesn't matter
18:52:26  <frosch123> DJNekkid: it is written on the wiki
18:52:42  <planetmaker> it's supported in every rev. In earlier ones just ignored
18:53:35  <DJNekkid> ok
18:53:36  <DJNekkid> i
18:54:50  <Ammler> planetmaker: http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/home/repository/show/compiler/.default <-- how "default" types are handled
18:55:09  <Ammler> and "nfo" is used if type isn't defined
18:56:03  <planetmaker> and... how do I define the type?
18:56:38  <Ammler> file .devzone/build/type
18:56:53  <Ammler> ser for example :-)
18:57:42  <Ammler>    1.  build/BRANCH/*
18:57:43  <Ammler>    2. build/*
18:57:45  <Ammler>    3. COMPILER/.default/*
18:57:50  <planetmaker> you should all example-ish things to newgrf_makefile ;-)
18:58:41  <Ammler> you can still change only files or requires for a single project, by placing that file
19:02:19  <Ammler> actually, opengfx is still a "normal" nfo project
19:02:38  <Ammler> it had just that requires as I used it to thest nforenum/grfcodec nightly
19:03:07  <Brot6> OpenGFX - Revision 503:02c345cfde15: Cleanup: nforenum and grfcodec are default requires now (Ammler) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/opengfx/repository/revisions/02c345cfde15
19:03:08  <planetmaker> hm
19:03:46  <planetmaker> Ammler, couldn't we externalize the activation of the CF somehow from the repo? It doesn't feel entirely right to have a compile farm trigger part of the repo
19:04:05  <planetmaker> But I guess... that'd need some more serious web-interface work :S
19:04:15  <Ammler> I like it
19:04:41  <Ammler> the other thing would need remine plugin
19:04:49  <planetmaker> yes
19:04:57  <planetmaker> which would IMHO seem more adequate
19:05:01  <Ammler> and nobody is really up to code something in ruby
19:05:07  <planetmaker> :-)
19:05:16  <Ammler> except frosch123
19:05:31  <Ammler> he can code in every language :-)
19:06:01  <frosch123> i don't know ruby :)
19:06:59  <planetmaker> Ammler, soo... cat ...build/type should give me nfo?
19:07:12  <Ammler> yes
19:07:57  <planetmaker> good
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19:08:30  <Ammler> what we could do is to have .devzone in a own branch
19:09:11  <planetmaker> no, that's not a good choice :-)
19:09:18  <planetmaker> That would make things needlessly complicated
19:09:36  <Brot6> Total Town Replacement Set - Revision 13:b0d0f7ef9848: Add: Activate compilation by the CF (planetmaker) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/ttrs/repository/revisions/b0d0f7ef9848
19:09:56  <Brot6> ttrs: update from  to tip done (125 errors) - http://bundles.openttdcoop.org/ttrs/releases/tip
19:10:04  <planetmaker> :-D
19:10:11  <Ammler> http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/ttrs/repository/revisions/b0d0f7ef9848/entry/.devzone/backup.push?
19:10:26  <Ammler> you really like push ttrs to the firs backup?
19:10:45  <planetmaker> :-O
19:10:49  <planetmaker> nope
19:11:16  <FooBar> I made a bad similar to that recently :P
19:11:21  <Ammler> :-)
19:11:48  <planetmaker> Ammler, that's the reason why I want it rather external
19:11:54  <planetmaker> and as redmine plug-in
19:12:02  <Ammler> yes, please do :-P
19:12:05  <planetmaker> :-P
19:12:46  <Ammler> I made first step and moved everything to the .devzone, so it is easy removeable :-)
19:12:53  <planetmaker> Ammler, what happens, if I just add a corrected link?
19:13:00  <planetmaker> will bitbucket work or will it fail?
19:13:07  <Ammler> it will fail
19:13:14  <Ammler> you would need to create the repo there
19:13:27  <Ammler> and give "OpenTTD" write access
19:13:43  <planetmaker> and an empty backup.push?
19:13:53  <Ammler> then you can as good remove the file
19:14:32  <Ammler> I can create the repo fro you
19:15:27  <planetmaker> :-) ty
19:15:42  <Ammler>  ssh://hg@bitbucket.org/OpenTTD/ttrs
19:16:17  <planetmaker> capitalization as you quote?
19:16:21  <Ammler> yep
19:17:38  <Ammler> for projects like grfcodec and such
19:18:01  <Ammler> you have with .devzone also a "template" for rpm packager
19:18:26  <Ammler> (with the specs)
19:19:53  <Ammler> you can simply install the installer locally and run it to build a package
19:20:07  <Ammler> without any need of the build requirements
19:20:14  <Ammler> you just need osc
19:20:26  <Ammler> and hg
19:20:46  <Ammler> I do sometimes test of CF locally
19:21:13  <Brot6> Total Town Replacement Set - Revision 14:2c30bb857e74: Fix: Proper backup path (planetmaker) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/ttrs/repository/revisions/2c30bb857e74
19:21:22  <Brot6> ttrs: update from tip to tip done (125 errors) - http://bundles.openttdcoop.org/ttrs/releases/tip
19:21:58  <Ammler> hmm,
19:22:17  <Ammler> you enabled release compile but didn't add a tag yet?
19:22:21  <planetmaker> those 125 errors are ok ;-)
19:22:23  <planetmaker> yes
19:22:31  <Ammler> it should skip tip
19:23:14  <planetmaker> oh. lol :-)
19:23:25  <Rubidium> ooh... loads of pure white
19:23:52  <planetmaker> nothing changed there yet ;-)
19:23:59  <Ammler> I fear, it does now on every push compile and add it to "tip" :-)
19:24:07  <planetmaker> haha :-)
19:25:39  <Ammler> FINGER: tip	2010-08-26	ttrs	releases	2c30bb857e74
19:26:18  <FooBar> planetmaker: have a look at ttrs3w.pcx... did you by any chance decode the windows grf as if it were dos? There's loads of pink and brown which doesn't seem right...
19:26:35  <planetmaker> might be
19:26:50  <Rubidium> grfcodec assumes DOS IIRC
19:27:01  <Rubidium> so unless you pass the right params it'll decode it as DOS
19:27:01  <planetmaker> hm. Then I DID do it wrong :-)
19:27:16  <FooBar> you assumed that grfcodec assumed windows?
19:27:19  <FooBar> :P
19:27:19  <planetmaker> But I did afaik a palette conversion later. Probably that was not smart
19:28:12  <FooBar> anyhoe, I got the banks issue down to testing
19:28:42  <planetmaker> nice
19:29:12  <Ammler> grfcodec -d -p2
19:33:57  <FooBar> interestingly, after building the grf, the colours look good again...
19:34:57  <FooBar> but it seems to work, so I will commit :)
19:35:04  <Ammler> sounds logical?
19:35:17  <Ammler> grfcodec -d -p1 a wingrf
19:35:37  <Ammler> makes some glitch pcx but when you encode with p1 again
19:35:47  <FooBar> hmmm indeed. 2x wrong is right :)
19:35:56  <planetmaker> :-)
19:36:06  <planetmaker> Don't touch it now, I think
19:36:25  <Ammler> well, you shouldn't change the pcx anyway
19:36:53  <Ammler> if you like to "fix/change" sprites extract and commit a own file for the fix
19:37:23  <planetmaker> yes
19:37:40  <Ammler> like we do with opengfx
19:37:47  <planetmaker> ^
19:39:30  <Ammler> but changing the file to correct palette wouldn't hurt ;-)
19:40:05  <planetmaker> :-)
19:40:17  <planetmaker> Probably
19:41:36  <Brot6> Total Town Replacement Set - Revision 15:c6a0c10cb464: Feature: only have banks as industry if th... (foobar) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/ttrs/repository/revisions/c6a0c10cb464
19:41:36  <Brot6> Total Town Replacement Set - Revision 16:e6a29de9e010: Merge (foobar) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/ttrs/repository/revisions/e6a29de9e010
19:41:36  <Brot6> Total Town Replacement Set - Feature Request #1287 (Closed): FIRS compatible (foobar) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/1287#change-3471
19:41:53  <FooBar> fixing this would require 'extracting' the complete file and leaving the original unused
19:42:17  <Brot6> ttrs: update from tip to tip done (125 errors) - http://bundles.openttdcoop.org/ttrs/releases/tip
19:42:20  <FooBar> so I think replacing the file is no problem in this particular case, as there's no need to keep the old around
19:43:01  <Ammler> FooBar: yes, correct
19:43:19  <Ammler> but do not change the file to "fix" selected sprites
19:43:40  <Ammler> simply because it isn't easy to track changes then
19:44:05  <Ammler> I have no idea, if you will
19:44:54  <FooBar> for normal sprite-fixes I would extract and commit a new smaller file
19:45:12  <planetmaker> there's two things to do: change the palette to win. And at the same time then, the white pixels could be converted all to semi-white
19:45:17  <planetmaker> That should be one commit
19:45:35  <planetmaker> Otherwise it'd needlessly bloat the reposize
19:45:52  <FooBar> might be the smart thing to do
19:45:52  <Ammler> that would be worth
19:46:04  <Ammler> it is change which should be tracked
19:46:16  *** Yexo_ has joined #openttdcoop.devzone
19:46:20  <Ammler> don't fear the space :-)
19:46:26  <planetmaker> :-)
19:46:31  *** Yexo is now known as Guest917
19:46:31  *** Yexo_ is now known as Yexo
19:46:39  <Ammler> FooBar: you should rather avoid that merge you just did
19:46:39  * planetmaker wants to go to space. But they wouldn't let me :-(
19:47:03  <planetmaker> hg rollback && hg pull
19:47:03  *** Guest917 has quit IRC
19:47:06  <FooBar> Ammler: I know, but it was too late
19:47:07  <planetmaker> and then hg commit again
19:47:09  <planetmaker> nope
19:47:10  <planetmaker> :-)
19:47:15  <Ammler> you weren't :-)
19:47:40  <FooBar> I were, before I realized I could rollback I already had merged and pushed...
19:47:50  <Ammler> oh, lol
19:48:15  <FooBar> but yes, I agree that it is a silly merge
19:48:34  <Ammler> planetmaker: in that case, I wouldn't trust that a pure white fix dosn't do something bad
19:48:35  <planetmaker> quite
19:48:42  <FooBar> it's a bit of a small siding :P
19:48:52  <planetmaker> Ammler, why?
19:49:24  <Ammler> it is a awesome big file
19:49:40  <planetmaker> I don't say I replace it blindly.
19:49:41  <Ammler> is there no scenario possible such a convert can backfire?
19:49:45  <planetmaker> I look at every sprite
19:50:11  <planetmaker> But I know no scenario where you would want that for normal sprites
19:53:18  <Brot6> Total Town Replacement Set - Feature #1323 (New): have banks as houses (foobar) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/1323
19:54:13  <Ammler> planetmaker: if you say, that you look on every sprite, that tells to me, you don't trust "it" either ;-)
19:57:36  <planetmaker> It just tells me that I don't want to convert accidentially background
19:57:43  <FooBar> What I usually do is select all pure white, then deselect contiguous pure white around the sprites. That leaves pure white in sprites selected. Replace that with the other "white". Then encode and see if there is still pure white; if so, then this indicates either a misaligned sprite or a pure white pixel at the side of the sprite which is connected with the inter-sprite pure white. Fix...
19:57:45  <FooBar> ...those manually.
19:58:08  <planetmaker> yes
20:13:01  <Brot6> FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Revision 1267:58deb021f7cd: Change: warn for possible incompatibl... (foobar) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/firs/repository/revisions/58deb021f7cd
20:13:01  <Brot6> FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Bug #898 (Closed): Bank appearing in Towns/Cities and accepting Sand (foobar) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/898#change-3472
20:15:22  <Ammler> won't it be TTRS 3.1?
20:18:55  <planetmaker> yes
20:19:06  <planetmaker> the version there isn't my idea ;-)
20:19:20  <planetmaker> I just wonder... shall TTRS4 be a separate project or within the same :-)
20:19:36  <Ammler> nah, I added Version 4.0, but removed it again
20:19:54  <planetmaker> Yeah. Probably a new project
20:20:06  <planetmaker> this is just bug-fix anyway :-)
20:20:08  <Ammler> I meant FooBar, who used 3.03
20:20:12  <planetmaker> ah
20:20:19  <planetmaker> next will be 3.1 :-)
20:20:55  <FooBar> I didn't know what would be chosen, but I knew "3.03 or higher" would be a safe bet that in the end will always be true
20:20:57  <Ammler> now the riddle, is 3.1 > 3.02a ?
20:21:15  <Rubidium> no
20:21:24  <FooBar> logically, yes. Mathematically no.
20:21:33  <Ammler> > zypper vcmp 3.1 3.03
20:21:34  <Ammler> 3.1 is older than 3.03
20:21:45  <Ammler> so no
20:21:58  <Ammler> planetmaker: you should call it 3.3 :-)
20:22:02  <Rubidium> actually... I'd even say that 010 < 9
20:22:45  <FooBar> call it 3.10 and we're good
20:22:58  <planetmaker> mathematically 3.1 > 3.03
20:23:17  <Ammler> yes, but that is about versioning
20:23:57  <FooBar> I meant mathematically comparing sub-version numbers
20:24:09  <Ammler> 3.03 != 3.0.3
20:24:27  <FooBar> in theory, 3.03 == 3.3...
20:24:54  <Ammler> > zypper vcmp 3.3 3.03
20:24:55  <Ammler> 3.3 matches 3.03
20:25:03  <FooBar> in theory, I can also just change the information enclosed in FIRS :P
20:25:42  <Ammler> current ttrs is 3.02a
20:25:45  <Ammler> right?
20:25:53  <FooBar> right
20:26:22  <Ammler> yes, then next should be either 3.3 or 3.03
20:26:29  <FooBar> so in fact, 3.1 would be older than 3.02, so the whole issue isn't even in my ballpark :P
20:26:42  <Ammler> indeed :-P
20:27:26  <Ammler> or 3.02a.1 :-)
20:27:46  <FooBar> or just 3.02b
20:28:26  <Ammler> well, your bank fix might be worth more :-)
20:28:40  <FooBar> I'll just change the message in FIRS when the release is there. For now it indicates just fine that 3.02a is too old :)
20:28:56  <Ammler> true
20:29:05  <FooBar> 3.02b is short for 3.02bankfix :P
20:32:53  <Ammler> Rubidium: 010 is newer than 9
20:33:23  <Ammler> is that a bug of zypper?
20:33:24  <Brot6> OpenGFX - Revision 504:51a514961dba: Feature #1255: New 'rocks' for toyland climate (graphics by ... (planetmaker) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/opengfx/repository/revisions/51a514961dba
20:34:18  <Rubidium> 010 is (in at least C and Java) equal to 8
20:34:57  <FooBar> in that case 010 probably isn't an integer...
20:36:29  <Ammler> well, it is like 0.010 compared to 0.9
20:38:19  <DJNekkid> _most_ likely a stupid question, but i assume the placement of Action14 dont matter?
20:38:33  <Ammler> nforenum should tell you :-)
20:38:48  <Ammler> (before a8, iirc)
20:39:19  <DJNekkid> oh :D
20:39:22  <DJNekkid> oki
20:40:26  <planetmaker> you can place it after action8.
20:40:33  <planetmaker> But the effect will be zero then ;-)
20:40:54  <Ammler> hmm, it should at least warn, afaik
20:41:05  <planetmaker> I think it does
20:41:52  <Ammler> btw, what "language" is a8 compared with a14?
20:41:58  <Ammler> like 7F?
20:42:06  <DJNekkid> hmm
20:42:15  <DJNekkid> now i need to "invent" a A14 template thingy
20:42:33  <Ammler> there are already some projects with
20:42:48  <Brot6> OpenGFX - Revision 505:1d1d5ba84df6: Feature #1263: New 'rough' ground tiles for toyland (graphic... (planetmaker) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/opengfx/repository/revisions/1d1d5ba84df6
20:43:14  <planetmaker> FIRS + snowlinemod have it
20:43:37  <planetmaker> though... both don't have it really templated
20:43:39  <DJNekkid> with multiple languages?
20:43:42  <planetmaker> but there's not much to template
20:43:54  <planetmaker> Except the languages :-)
20:43:55  <Brot6> FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Revision 1268:fcfc5a3ad893: Docs: include information about error... (foobar) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/firs/repository/revisions/fcfc5a3ad893
20:44:00  <planetmaker> where FIRS has an excellent system
20:44:04  <Ammler> you need once, so a template is a bit ...
20:44:11  <planetmaker> which 'just' needs to be applied to action14, too
20:44:13  <Ammler> it*
20:44:22  <planetmaker> which I 'just' didn't finish yet ;-)
20:44:48  <Ammler> well, you could combine Action14 with Action8 and ActionD
20:44:59  <planetmaker> DJNekkid: it make sense to copy the whole FIRS language system :-)
20:45:35  <andythenorth> FooBar: looks like FIRS r1300 soon :)
20:45:37  <planetmaker> With another #ifdef that's then easily used for action14, too
20:46:34  * FooBar thinks he did something right about the language system
20:46:46  <planetmaker> I thought about porting it to 2cct. But I haven't gotten around to anything there yet. Not even the action14 for FIRS ;-)
20:46:51  <Ammler> you changed it the 3rd time?
20:46:57  <FooBar> andythenorth: I hope to have 0.4 before r1300 ;)
20:47:04  <Ammler> are you sure, there isn't a 4th time?
20:47:15  <planetmaker> Ammler: ?
20:47:24  <Ammler> FooBar: changing trans sys
20:47:44  <FooBar> I changed it at least once before...
20:48:05  <andythenorth> I thought about doing this one, but I have brain freeze right now: http://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/1022
20:48:11  <andythenorth> we could bounce it
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20:48:48  * Ammler notices the peple that you can simply speak about #1022 and Brot6 does the rest :-)
20:48:49  <Brot6> Ammler: #1022 is http://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/show/1022 "FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Feature #1022: Additional layouts for Aluminium Plant - #openttdcoop Development Zone"
20:49:55  <FooBar> andythenorth: I don't think that one is very much required for 0.4
20:49:56  <Brot6> OpenGFX - Feature #1255 (Feedback): Gumdrops (planetmaker) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/1255#change-3473
20:51:05  <andythenorth> FooBar: I did think about tackling #1056 before we release 0.4
20:51:05  <Brot6> andythenorth: FooBar: #1056 is http://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/show/1056 "FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Bug #1056: Input cargo discarded for low input values - #openttdcoop Development Zone"
20:51:19  <FooBar> hmmm, that might be a good one
20:51:54  <andythenorth> I think the fix is quite easy, but it's brain ache checking it's working
20:52:19  <Brot6> OpenGFX - Feature #1263 (Assigned): Toyland Rough Land (planetmaker) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/1263#change-3475
20:52:32  <andythenorth> it just needs max(cargo | min amount) in the chain for each production template
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20:52:54  <FooBar> maybe we should try and fix most of the bugs before 0.4
20:53:00  <planetmaker> hm... that is actually useful output by Brot :-)
20:53:07  <planetmaker> giving us the link to an issue number :-)
20:53:08  * andythenorth looks for other bugs
20:53:50  <FooBar> there are some nasty bugs in there though :P
20:55:11  <planetmaker> http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/firs/issues?query_id=5 <-- for you, andythenorth ;-)
20:55:38  <planetmaker> 17 to go ;-)
20:56:02  <andythenorth> I call 'invalid' for #763
20:56:02  <Brot6> andythenorth: #763 is http://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/show/763 "FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Bug #763: Watch the nightly compile logs - #openttdcoop Development Zone"
20:56:32  <planetmaker> though I consider #1151 rather as a feature than a bug
20:56:32  <Brot6> planetmaker: #1151 is http://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/show/1151 "FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Bug #1151: Fishing Harbours should try and locate reasonably close to fishing grounds - #openttdcoop Development Zone"
20:56:50  <FooBar> me too actually...
20:57:20  <FooBar> now it is one :P
20:57:29  <FooBar> now that is quick bug-fixing
20:57:52  <planetmaker> I closed you #447 ;-)
20:57:52  <Brot6> planetmaker: #447 is http://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/show/447 "FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Bug #447: Set is incomplete - #openttdcoop Development Zone"
20:57:53  <FooBar> maybe #447 is a feature as well :P
20:57:53  <Brot6> FooBar: #447 is http://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/show/447 "FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Bug #447: Set is incomplete - #openttdcoop Development Zone"
20:57:57  <DJNekkid> http://pastebin.ca/1926246
20:58:01  <planetmaker> :-P
20:58:01  <DJNekkid> what about that?
20:58:23  <Brot6> FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Bug #447 (Closed): Set is incomplete (planetmaker) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/447#change-3480
20:58:24  <FooBar> planetmaker: you'd better rejected that ;)
20:58:28  <andythenorth> #447 is definitely a bug
20:58:28  <Brot6> andythenorth: #447 is http://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/show/447 "FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Bug #447: Set is incomplete - #openttdcoop Development Zone"
20:58:45  <andythenorth> we should leave it open :P
20:59:02  <andythenorth> a bug is unexpected behaviour?
20:59:30  <planetmaker> too late, closed ;-)
20:59:35  <andythenorth> I thought the set would take 18 months to complete.  It's taken nearly 22 months so far, and we're only at 0.4 :)
20:59:39  <FooBar> DJNekkid: you don't want if's and elses in a language file
20:59:49  <andythenorth> that's "unexpected behaviour"
20:59:55  <planetmaker> I concur with FooBar, DJNekkid
21:00:03  <DJNekkid> i agree myself
21:00:09  <DJNekkid> but then i need two langauge files
21:00:14  <DJNekkid> and that is ofcourse an option
21:00:15  <planetmaker> Nope :-)
21:00:15  * andythenorth should go to bed
21:00:27  * FooBar agrees with andythenorth
21:00:36  <DJNekkid> unless action8 can be anywhere
21:00:39  <planetmaker> DJNekkid: Can you copy FIRS' system?
21:00:47  <DJNekkid> i have no idea
21:00:56  <FooBar> planetmaker: you'd better add the action14 stuff to FIRS first ;)
21:01:03  <planetmaker> :-P
21:01:08  <planetmaker> I guess
21:01:40  <DJNekkid> and where would i find A14 in firs? :)
21:02:05  <andythenorth> header.pnfo?
21:02:08  <andythenorth> IIRC
21:02:27  <Ammler> yes, speak 10 times about the same issue and demonstrate the disadvantage of the cool new Brot Feature :-P
21:03:18  <FooBar> heh
21:03:36  <FooBar> #0
21:03:49  <FooBar> that's probably not an issue, is it?
21:03:51  <FooBar> #1
21:03:51  <Brot6> FooBar: #1 is http://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/show/1 "Infrastructure Sharing - Feature #1: Depot switches - #openttdcoop Development Zone"
21:04:29  <FooBar> anyways, I'm sleepy...
21:04:30  <FooBar> bye!
21:04:41  <DJNekkid> yea
21:04:52  <DJNekkid> that system is rather sturdy...
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21:06:19  <DJNekkid> but however
21:06:47  <DJNekkid> it dont solve my Action14-before-action8-and-nothing-appart-from-action14-should-be-before-action8 -problem
21:11:23  <frosch123> what?
21:12:03  <Ammler> there are usually also a lot Action7 and ActionB before
21:13:06  <Ammler> planetmaker: does opengfx have newest makefile framework?
21:13:17  <planetmaker> newest tag
21:13:19  <planetmaker> not tip
21:13:22  <Ammler> I still think, the dep is broken now
21:13:26  <planetmaker> yes it is
21:13:31  <Ammler> ok :-)
21:13:35  <planetmaker> I noticed :-P
21:13:39  <DJNekkid> then planetmaker ... there is only two options
21:13:41  <planetmaker> when I made todays commits
21:14:07  <DJNekkid> two lang files, one for action14, and one for action4
21:14:27  <DJNekkid> or ifdef's in the lang-file
21:14:34  <planetmaker> nope :-)
21:15:05  <planetmaker> there's the possibility to do with the #ifdefs in the file which includes the lang files
21:15:11  <DJNekkid> well
21:15:18  <planetmaker> the lang files with all strings are then included twice
21:15:25  <DJNekkid> the lang-file can ofcouse be used twice
21:15:33  <DJNekkid> and only the "needed material" is used
21:15:58  <planetmaker> but... I need to think it through properly
21:16:08  <DJNekkid> well, we both had the same idea
21:16:10  <DJNekkid> lets say
21:16:10  * Hirundo struggles with the mess known as the newstations spec
21:16:24  <DJNekkid> i define #A14-stuff
21:16:32  <DJNekkid> and #A4-stuff
21:16:38  <DJNekkid> then both are undefined in the bottom
21:16:44  <DJNekkid> or well
21:16:49  <DJNekkid> after they have been used
21:17:04  <frosch123> Hirundo: just drop deprecated stuff :)
21:17:06  <planetmaker> let me sketch my idea. give me a few minutes. You don't need ifdefs in the lang file
21:17:09  <DJNekkid> hard to explain
21:17:30  <DJNekkid> but i think we talk about the same thing
21:18:42  <frosch123> i.e. don't support property 0e and 0f
21:19:47  <Hirundo> That makes prop 11/14/15 break
21:20:34  <Hirundo> some way of poking around in the TTDP mess is required to make some of those features work
21:22:59  <frosch123> rather alllow only cb 24
21:23:22  <planetmaker> http://pastebin.com/Nd1k4Cqw <-- DJNekkid
21:23:32  <frosch123> hmm, otoh, for small fixed size buildings the property might be easier
21:23:37  <Ammler> planetmaker: as I said, the dep check is useless, that is the revenge :-P
21:23:43  <planetmaker> it's no problem to undefine things which are not defined, DJNekkid
21:23:59  <planetmaker> ... @ Ammler
21:24:21  <Ammler> I really miss it on opengfx :-)
21:24:40  <planetmaker> I'll remove it. I'll remove the makefile. Then all is fine. Ok?
21:24:50  <planetmaker> And you write whatever is needed
21:25:14  <planetmaker> and deal with all the different projects wanting different things in different dirs
21:25:17  <DJNekkid> planetmaker: that exact method is what i were thinking of too :)
21:26:21  <planetmaker> :-)
21:26:29  <planetmaker> That is what FIRS will use
21:26:37  <planetmaker> the only thing missing is action14.pnfo
21:27:07  <Hirundo> "	Tile type: the current tile type; only valid for callback 14 " <- why such a restriction?
21:31:08  <Rubidium> it's more a pseudo restriction I guess; what tile type would a built platform have? (callback 14 = done before building)
21:32:01  <planetmaker> Ammler: then I also assign all questions along the lines of "why does my grf differ from the CF's" to you, all "what file is missing" etc
21:32:03  <frosch123> cb14 is done during drawing
21:32:10  <planetmaker> Which was the exact reason I added the bloody dep checks
21:34:18  <Brot6> OpenGFX - Feature #885: Groundtile brack land (Toyland?) (Ammler) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/885#change-3482
21:35:20  <Ammler> planetmaker: I might miss the content?
21:35:47  <Ammler> I said, I miss the dep the check in opengfx :-P
21:36:53  <Ammler> and I feared you removed it because I didn't talk nicely about it some time ago...
21:38:24  <Ammler> I have no Makefile.local and if I run make, it doesn't build
21:38:44  <Hirundo> frosch123: I assume that CB 24 (customize layout during construction) is taken into account for prop 11/14/15?
21:38:49  <Ammler> I need "make clean && make"
21:41:01  <frosch123> i would assume so, but stations are the feature i know the least of
21:41:05  <Brot6> OpenGFX - Feature #885: Toyland House and Industry Ground tile (Ammler) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/885#change-3482
21:42:24  <planetmaker> Ammler: yes. It's currently a known bug
21:42:53  <frosch123> Hirundo: for ottd it is the case, yes
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21:48:23  <frosch123> nifhr
21:48:28  <frosch123> night actually
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21:50:29  <Brot6> NewGRF Meta Language - Revision 683:2df99bc0f5ee: Codechange: use spaces to indent instead of tabs (yexo) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/nml/repository/revisions/2df99bc0f5ee
21:54:13  <planetmaker> o_O
21:54:25  <planetmaker> My good is #openttd spammed again by the TruePest
21:54:49  <Rubidium> *cough*ignore*cough*
21:56:13  <planetmaker> yes, I do, too :-)
21:56:29  <planetmaker> I just wondered about some unrelated stuff and looked in the logs :-P
21:56:44  <planetmaker> I'm not yet used to ignore. But that person convinced me really of the usefulness
21:57:21  <Rubidium> if unrelated assume someone's ignored :)
21:57:37  <planetmaker> :-) yes. But _that_ is what I need to get used to ;-)
21:57:48  <planetmaker> And I still can't believe someone can blabla so much...
21:58:19  <Ammler> maybe it's a girl :-)
21:58:35  <planetmaker> I don't think ;-)
22:03:53  <Terkhen> he should open a facebook account or something like that
22:04:54  <Rubidium> OMFG...
22:06:06  <Rubidium> he can't even open a thread in the right subforum
22:08:12  <Terkhen> :D
22:08:16  <planetmaker> nope... and it reads like his irc bla. And is as thought-through
22:08:24  <Terkhen> oh, big changes in FIRS language code
22:09:01  <planetmaker> Your desires should be fulfilled, Terkhen ;-)
22:09:11  <Yexo> , if the server does not have this patch, there could possibly be the potental for a desync <- lol, even if the server has the same patch it can desync
22:09:24  <Brot6> Nutracks - Revision 102:5c6ecac59896: Change: Parameter 0 (skip NG-rails) is now parameter \b10 (DJNekkid) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/nutracks/repository/revisions/5c6ecac59896
22:09:24  <Brot6> Nutracks - Revision 103:69ca63144e5a: Change: header cleanup (DJNekkid) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/nutracks/repository/revisions/69ca63144e5a
22:09:24  <Brot6> Nutracks - Revision 104:1e0da2ef4bf6: Change: Removed the vanilla engine support action0's from t... (DJNekkid) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/nutracks/repository/revisions/1e0da2ef4bf6
22:09:25  <Brot6> Nutracks - Revision 105:90148116fbf2: Change: (DJNekkid) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/nutracks/repository/revisions/90148116fbf2
22:09:33  <Terkhen> :)
22:10:22  <Terkhen> hmmm... my vm has dissapeared from virtualbox
22:10:34  <Terkhen> I'll check the changes tomorrow
22:12:14  <planetmaker> They should ensure to only translate those strings which you actually supply in the translation
22:12:30  <planetmaker> And they made my task to add action14 translations also quite a bit easier
22:13:27  <Terkhen> if remove_defines.pnfo has been removed the check script should be edited (if no parameter is supplied it checks remove_defines.pnfo by default)
22:13:45  <Terkhen> that's nice, I think those are the only strings not appearing in spanish right now
22:13:47  <planetmaker> that file remains. I need it
22:14:30  <planetmaker> and it must contain all strings, yes :-)
22:14:51  <Terkhen> okay :)
22:15:07  <Terkhen> oh, it's working now, let's see
22:22:49  <Terkhen> it's looking nicer now
22:24:46  <Terkhen> now we only need to remove those defines :P
23:38:04  <Brot6> FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Revision 1269:15d22d6f488e: Feature 1303: Add translatable newgrf... (planetmaker) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/firs/repository/revisions/15d22d6f488e
23:38:04  <Brot6> FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Feature #1303: Include action14 strings into translations (planetmaker) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/1303#change-3484
23:42:49  <Brot6> OpenGFX - Feature #1263: Toyland Rough Land (athanasios) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/1263#change-3485
23:50:15  <Brot6> OpenGFX - Support #1304: Mission statement (athanasios) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/1304#change-3486
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