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04:36:33 <Brot6> Bundles Update: g61dd708a 2010-09-23 cargodist (http://finger.openttdcoop.org) 07:27:47 *** ODM has joined #openttdcoop.devzone 10:00:17 <Ammler> does someone here still push with ssh? 10:01:48 <Ammler> would it hurt much, if I change the username? 10:04:02 <Rubidium> yes! and dunno 10:07:54 <Rubidium> I probably pull with it as well 10:08:08 <Ammler> I guess, better keep it, new members don't need it anyway 10:08:19 <Ammler> so I could simply remove it from the docs 10:09:02 <Ammler> and after the migration, I will setup a new server for the gameserver anyway 10:09:57 <Rubidium> well, not sure how hard the migration from ssh to https is 10:11:25 <Ammler> I guess, it should be possible to add the username and password to ~/.hgrc 10:12:12 <Ammler> so you have default-push = https://push.openttdcoop.org/<repo> 10:12:27 <Ammler> not sure, thoght 10:17:10 *** andythenorth has joined #openttdcoop.devzone 10:33:50 *** welshdragon has joined #openttdcoop.devzone 10:43:38 <planetmaker> Ammler, I do nearly all my things via ssh 10:44:58 <planetmaker> hm, Ammler why does that URL have to differ from http://hg.openttdcoop.org/<repo> ? 10:50:30 <Brot6> OpenGFX+ Trains - Feature #1528: Support for additional cargos (Terkhen) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/1528#change-4030 10:53:44 *** KenjiE20 has joined #openttdcoop.devzone 10:58:23 <Brot6> OpenGFX+ Trains - Feature #1528: Support for additional cargos (planetmaker) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/1528#change-4031 11:00:05 <Ammler> planetmaker: because it forces https 11:00:16 <Ammler> you can't do http and https with same address 11:01:35 <Ammler> that is why openttd uses secure for https 11:02:14 <Ammler> on dev I do force https on some urls where you submit the login data 11:03:35 <Ammler> http://push.openttdcoop.org should explain :-) 11:04:21 <Ammler> of course, you can also pull from the push url 11:05:13 <Rubidium> Ammler: you can do https and http with the same address 11:05:41 <Ammler> yes, but then you can't force https 11:05:57 <Rubidium> true 11:06:20 <Ammler> I could of course simply rewrite the http traffic to https, but that would be verbose unsecurity :-) 11:06:43 <Ammler> or other side around :-P 11:07:35 <Ammler> hmm, the belarusian guy had troubles to push from his work 11:07:44 <Ammler> maybe https was the issue 11:08:20 <Ammler> I should make a unsecure-push subdomain, maybe :-) 11:32:32 <Brot6> rsync & cp -Rl - Revision 11:a3850d73c262: Fix (r5): cd to non-existing path isn't possible (Ammler) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/cprsync/repository/revisions/a3850d73c262 13:41:52 <Brot6> OpenGFX+ Trains - Feature #1528: Support for additional cargos (Terkhen) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/1528#change-4032 13:59:32 <Brot6> OpenGFX+ Trains - Feature #1528: Support for additional cargos (planetmaker) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/1528#change-4033 14:00:19 <Ammler> you remove wagons/cargoes with ogfx+? 14:00:41 <Ammler> or is that already missing with opengfx? 14:01:28 <Brot6> OpenGFX+ Trains - Feature #1528: Support for additional cargos (planetmaker) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/1528#change-4033 14:02:22 <planetmaker> hm? 14:02:32 <planetmaker> I didn't change or touch OpenGFX+ yet 14:02:41 <Ammler> just wondering how sweets can be missing 14:02:44 <planetmaker> Basically its repo could be trashed at some point 14:02:54 <planetmaker> Are sweets missing? 14:03:04 <planetmaker> I guess I didn't yet test it with toyland :S 14:03:15 <Ammler> "Another issue: in toyland, there is no wagon that can carry sweets." 14:03:36 <planetmaker> Quote from where? 14:03:40 <Ammler> Terken 14:03:44 <planetmaker> ah. 14:03:49 <planetmaker> No, that's not solved 14:06:09 <planetmaker> Terkhen, if you like, you can become a developer of OpenGFX+ Trains :-) 14:06:28 <Terkhen> hmmm... and in toyland, the flatbed wagon is using the grain hopper sprite 14:06:45 <Terkhen> planetmaker: I don't know anything more advanced than action 0/4/8 14:06:54 <planetmaker> well, so what? :-) 14:07:14 <planetmaker> With NML the actions are not needed to be known :-) 14:07:44 <planetmaker> switch (FEAT_TRAINS, SELF, my_fancy_switch_name, condition_variable) { 14:07:53 <planetmaker> 0: spritesgroup1 14:07:57 <planetmaker> 1: spritegroup2 14:07:58 <planetmaker> } 14:08:06 <planetmaker> that's already an adv. action2 ;-) 14:08:14 <Terkhen> yes, I was planning on learning NML directly 14:08:24 <planetmaker> You may well use this. :-) 14:08:26 <Terkhen> but still, everything I know about NML is in that diff :P 14:08:36 <planetmaker> :-) 14:08:42 <planetmaker> If you like you can commit it. 14:09:26 <planetmaker> though I'd not yet disable monorail and maglev - as there's no replacement so far. 14:10:07 <planetmaker> Concerning toyland: I didn't check for that. So it will need some more love to the detailed cargos there, adjusting a bit the refit options. 14:10:41 <Ammler> ogfx+ should not disable anything per default imo 14:10:51 <planetmaker> Ammler, it makes sense for the wagons 14:11:03 <planetmaker> They come back as a refit-option 14:11:05 <planetmaker> All of them 14:11:12 <Terkhen> I'll test it for a bit first :) 14:11:18 <planetmaker> :-) 14:11:31 <Ammler> well, then it isn't disable, it is replöacing :-) 14:11:39 <planetmaker> Ammler, yes and no 14:11:59 <planetmaker> w/o newgrf we have food + goods wagon. With OpenGFX+Trains we have one wagon with a refit option for both 14:12:02 <Ammler> hmm 14:12:14 <Ammler> but it should be possible to add ogfx+ to a running game 14:12:32 <planetmaker> why? 14:13:11 <planetmaker> for all those who forgot to add a trainset? 14:13:31 <Ammler> no, if you have already a nice game and like to add something 14:13:52 <planetmaker> A valid point. But it clutters the wagon list severly. Making everything double 14:13:59 <planetmaker> even with the same graphics 14:14:08 <Ammler> maybe such a "disabler" can be disabled by a parameter 14:14:13 <planetmaker> So I might add that ... ^ 14:14:39 <Ammler> not sure about the default :-) 14:15:27 <Brot6> OpenGFX+ Trains - Feature #1540 (New): Disable the behaviour that all default wagons are disabled... (planetmaker) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/1540 14:15:28 <planetmaker> default should be 'disable wagons' 14:15:43 <planetmaker> It really looks stupid to have the exact same wagon twice in the purchase list 14:15:53 <Ammler> is a grf able to detect, if it is loaded after game start? 14:16:07 <planetmaker> Hm. I guess not 14:16:44 <planetmaker> also how to distinguish a 're-apply newgrfs' from a 'added this newgrf'? 14:19:37 <Rubidium> what *is* "game start"? 14:20:14 <Rubidium> and you're going to end up with many different cases 14:20:54 <Rubidium> newgame, newgame-network, loadgame, loadgame-network, re-apply, add in-game, remove and re-add in-game, ... 14:21:39 <Ammler> :-) was a wild guess 14:22:10 <Terkhen> I don't know if it is possible, but you could test for defined cargos and only define the refittable wagons if they all are standard cargos 14:22:11 <Ammler> hmm, basically it is when you make the red box 14:23:17 <Rubidium> but it doesn't upon loading (and that can go quite wrong as well), especially if there're static NewGRFs and you're switching from network to non-network 14:23:23 <Rubidium> (or vice versa) 14:23:32 <Ammler> it doesn't matter that much, important is that you are able to configure 14:23:33 <Rubidium> or when you add or remove static NewGRFs 14:32:16 *** Webster has joined #openttdcoop.devzone 14:37:42 <Ammler> I can ping from the win vm to lin vm, but not back, what is wrong then? 14:37:50 <Ammler> using a 192.168 network 14:38:36 <SmatZ> Ammler: win fw blocking ping? 14:40:59 <Ammler> SmatZ: he, true, stupid me :-$ 14:43:59 <SmatZ> nah :) 15:25:02 *** thgergo has joined #openttdcoop.devzone 15:36:36 <Hirundo> andythenorth: Suggestion: Make glass works accept chemicals, like the lumber yard 15:37:28 <andythenorth> put it in a FIRS ticket 15:37:31 <andythenorth> I'm open to it 15:37:46 <andythenorth> chemicals are a major industrial cargo, the more the better :) 15:38:45 <Ammler> Yexo__: please do not start closing tickets at tt-forums :-) 15:38:54 <Ammler> threads* 15:39:36 *** Yexo__ is now known as Yexo 15:39:44 <Yexo> Ammler: what are you talking about? 15:40:00 <Ammler> oh, so not the first time? 15:40:10 <Yexo> huh? 15:40:39 <Yexo> which topic are you talking about? 15:40:52 <Ammler> http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?p=904867#p904867 15:40:54 <Webster> Title: Transport Tycoon Forums • View topic - AY Employees2 server - is it public? (at www.tt-forums.net) 15:41:03 <Ammler> you made teh quote of Hirundo quite useless 15:41:10 <Yexo> oh, that one 15:41:16 <Yexo> no, it's not the first time I've closed a topic 15:41:30 <Yexo> in this case it seemed to me that the only thing that could go on in that topic was more fighting 15:41:36 *** frosch123 has joined #openttdcoop.devzone 15:41:45 <Yexo> everything useful has been said already, and the tone wasn't exactly friendly 15:42:03 <Yexo> so I closed it to prevent it going out of hand 15:42:04 <Ammler> yes, but tt-forums is one of the forums with a lower rating of moderators playing "parents" 15:43:24 <Ammler> in that thread it doesn't matter, I just hope, you don't become more pitty 15:43:34 <Yexo> because most of the time people can discuss everything in a civilized manner 15:44:51 <Ammler> I think, Hirundo made it good 15:45:28 <Yexo> yes, agreed 15:46:22 <Ammler> oh, now that is a feature 15:46:35 <Ammler> if the thread is locked, you can't edit posts either 15:46:53 <Yexo> but posts like "Hirundo, do you run that server? This would explain a lot. Anyways admins like that are idiots" I really dislike (implicitely calling hirundo an idiot) 15:47:26 <Ammler> yes, then kick/ban him :-) 15:47:37 <Yexo> the post before (Why bring computer nerd trash into it?) isn't exactly friendly either 15:49:28 <Yexo> Ammler: to summarize: in genaral I agree with you that topics shouldn't be closed too soon, but I hope you understand my reasons for closing this one (mainly the unfriendly tone in several posts) 15:49:33 <Ammler> IMO, closing a thread doesn't help people get friendlier 15:49:59 <Yexo> maybe not, but it might give them a clue that this was not ok 15:50:09 <Rubidium> ah well, plenty gets just moved to the spam bin 15:50:14 <Yexo> the alternative would be to let it go on, with the risk of it getting out of hand 15:50:16 <Ammler> yep, also better 15:50:57 <Yexo> true, but Ammler can't read the spam bin 15:51:04 <Ammler> I don't need 15:51:24 <Ammler> now it is kinda archived :-) 15:51:26 <Rubidium> sometimes there's fun stuff in there, or the sub-forum "north" of that 15:51:28 <Yexo> I just meant to say: You don't see how many unfriendly posts are moved there 15:52:20 <Rubidium> (hint: there are only 5 sub forums with more threads) 15:53:02 <Yexo> 3 of which are openttd subforums 15:55:50 <Rubidium> though as far as I can see the most rude comments enter via PM 15:56:21 <Ammler> it does "filter" pms? 15:56:29 <Yexo> no, but you can report them 15:56:41 <Ammler> ah ok 15:56:48 <Yexo> and a lot of those rude PMs are send direclty to the moderator that closed a topic or issued a warning 15:57:06 <Ammler> ah well :-) 15:57:39 <Ammler> he can't unload his anger to the thread anymore, so he needs another channel :-) 15:58:05 <Rubidium> #pikachu? 15:58:11 <Ammler> then you ban such guys? 15:58:31 <Yexo> yes (well, the global mods/orudge do) 15:58:33 <Rubidium> only global mods can ban 16:10:38 <planetmaker> frosch123: you're our grf expert: do you know why the (normal) rocks are twice in the base grf? sprites 4023 through 4041 and 4042 through 4060? 16:13:29 <Yexo> planetmaker: I can't find a reference in the code to the second set of sprites 16:14:04 <planetmaker> in the TTD base set they're different but I didn't find them anywhere... 16:14:22 * Rubidium coughs original 16:14:23 <planetmaker> hm... possibly place for some additional sprites, should they once be needed :-) 16:14:38 <Rubidium> (just an idea though) 16:14:54 <planetmaker> what original? TTO? 16:15:16 <Rubidium> yeah, might be that they're used in there 16:15:57 <planetmaker> hm, so not now. I might as well make the grf smaller then ;-) 16:17:05 <planetmaker> and why are they called in OpenGFX' source "adjacent rocks"? 16:17:12 <frosch123> there are various sprites only used in tto 16:17:48 <planetmaker> Might it be worth to re-use those unneeded sprites? 16:17:59 <frosch123> for what? 16:18:16 <planetmaker> more or different rocks? :-) 16:18:26 <planetmaker> cliffs 16:18:34 <planetmaker> whatever a future feature might need 16:18:35 <frosch123> new graphics would get an action5 16:19:02 <frosch123> using the potential of original graphics can be done of course, if someone cares :) 16:19:17 <planetmaker> hehe :-) 16:19:26 <planetmaker> would it need to use those which are in TTD base set? 16:19:39 <planetmaker> I guess so 16:19:55 <frosch123> yes, and it has to be codechange, else sirkoz will ask for a switch 16:20:19 <planetmaker> :-D 16:20:31 <planetmaker> he. A newobject could use them ;-) 16:20:36 <Brot6> firs: update from r1391 to r1402 done (1 errors) - http://bundles.openttdcoop.org/firs/nightlies/r1402 16:20:47 <planetmaker> evil. If I would remove them... 16:21:04 <planetmaker> I guess I leave them 16:21:11 <Brot6> Following repos didn't need a nightlies update: 2cctrainset (r615), 32bpp-extra (r39), ai-admiralai (r68), airportsplus (r63), basecosts (r22), belarusiantowns (r7), comic-houses (r71), fish (r394), frenchtowns (r4), grfcodec (r768), heqs (r376), metrotrackset (r56), newgrf_makefile (r217), nforenum (r506), nml (r795), nutracks (r117), ogfx-test (r529), ogfx-trees (r26), ogfxplus (r42), opengfx (r546), openmsx (r97), opensfx (r97), 16:21:11 <Brot6> snowlinemod (r45), swedishrails (r182), swisstowns (r19), transrapidtrackset (r15), ttdviewer (r25), ttrs (r22), worldairlinersset (r664) 16:21:34 <Brot6> GRFCodec - Revision 769:2996ad5b2992: Cleanup: no need to archive nightlies on devzone, only last... (Ammler) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/grfcodec/repository/revisions/2996ad5b2992 16:27:33 <Ammler> planetmaker: any use for that http://bundles.openttdcoop.org/grfdev/ ? 16:28:52 *** fanioz has joined #openttdcoop.devzone 16:35:08 <Brot6> #openttdcoop - Feature #1053 (Closed): OpenTTD Patch Queue (Ammler) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/1053#change-4034 16:37:03 <Brot6> #openttdcoop - Feature #1065: Support nightly builds for branches (Ammler) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/1065#change-4035 16:38:38 <Brot6> #openttdcoop - Bug #1541 (New): index file for bundles (Ammler) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/1541 16:40:47 <Brot6> #openttdcoop - Feature #1541 (New): index file for bundles (Ammler) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/1541 16:42:21 <Ammler> removed nforenum from bundles 16:49:48 <planetmaker> @sqrt(38) 16:50:00 <planetmaker> @calc sqrt(38) 16:50:01 <Webster> planetmaker: 6.16441400297 16:50:11 <planetmaker> @calc sqrt(50) 16:50:11 <Webster> planetmaker: 7.07106781187 16:51:35 <Ammler> and then you complain about Brot6 spamming tickets twice :-P 16:52:37 <planetmaker> that doesn't involve hightlights 16:53:01 <Ammler> it does here 16:53:05 <planetmaker> ? 16:53:14 <Ammler> every chat line highlight here 16:53:31 <planetmaker> you don't have a hightlight on me? 16:53:38 <planetmaker> hightlight != activity 16:53:47 <Ammler> yes, activity 16:54:15 <Ammler> I don't need to visit a channel without activity 16:54:45 <Ammler> that is almost the same :-) 16:54:54 <planetmaker> :-) 16:55:10 <Ammler> else I wouldn't complain about people which away message 16:55:18 <Ammler> with* 16:55:48 <Ammler> doesn't your client show activity? 16:55:56 <planetmaker> yes 16:56:20 <planetmaker> nothing - joins/parts - talking - hightlight 16:56:29 <planetmaker> -t 16:56:55 <Ammler> I ignore notices mostly 16:57:08 <planetmaker> as do I 16:57:31 <planetmaker> but it is distinguieshed here 16:59:32 <Ammler> at least, if you do calc public, you should note for what ;-) 16:59:40 <Ammler> so we can follow :-) 17:03:15 <seberoth> hi 17:06:16 <Ammler> sali seberoth :-) 17:13:23 <Brot6> #openttdcoop - Feature #1541: index file for bundles (foobar) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/1541#change-4037 17:18:52 <Brot6> FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Feature #1542 (New): Let glass works accept chemicals? (Hirundo) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/1542 17:19:22 <andythenorth> Hirundo: do Glass Works need chemicals 17:19:23 <andythenorth> ? 17:19:39 * andythenorth will duck any question about 'fuel' for this industry :P 17:19:52 <Hirundo> They do use quite some additives IIRC 17:20:13 <andythenorth> what does wikipedia say? 17:21:24 <Hirundo> mainly soda, lime and some other stuff like MgO and Al2O3 17:21:47 <Hirundo> It's certainly chemical, though I'm not sure whether they fit your definition 17:21:53 <andythenorth> soda is valid 17:22:05 <andythenorth> are they petrochemicals? 17:22:22 <andythenorth> I'm wondering about another source of chemicals in a future economy? 17:22:28 <andythenorth> currently main source is refinery 17:22:55 <andythenorth> http://tt-foundry.com/sets/FIRS/schema/cargo_details?cargo_type=chemicals&economy=point_5_release 17:22:58 <Webster> Title: TT Foundry: Pixel Creations for OpenTTD (at tt-foundry.com) 17:24:19 <andythenorth> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sodium_carbonate 17:24:20 <Webster> Title: Sodium carbonate - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (at en.wikipedia.org) 17:25:10 <planetmaker> Al2O3 is korundum. Quite tough stuff ;-) 17:25:41 <planetmaker> andythenorth: Glass works could well use chemicals. And if it's only for colour glass :-) 17:25:55 <planetmaker> but it might not be obvious 17:26:27 <planetmaker> soda is no petro-chemical 17:26:38 <planetmaker> nor lime actually :-) 17:27:39 <andythenorth> minerals... 17:27:57 <andythenorth> I don't think another mine is needed. And if it was, it would be potash / nitrates :) 17:28:13 * andythenorth ponders 17:28:28 <andythenorth> is it ok to have a mine that produces chemicals directly? 17:28:38 <andythenorth> do they have to be a processed cargo? 17:29:54 <Hirundo> If possible, yes, to not bypass the oil chain 17:31:08 <planetmaker> oh no. Not another mine ;-) 17:32:17 <planetmaker> A mind could directly provide minerals or chemicals, though 17:32:50 <planetmaker> Like soda, salt, fertilizers even 17:32:53 <andythenorth> ok, I'm afk for a bit. Talk about it later 17:33:03 <andythenorth> I had something in mind for fertiliser / explosive (ENSP) in some economies 17:33:22 <andythenorth> (not in main economy, and ideally use existing cargo, no new ones :P ) 17:33:34 <andythenorth> nitrate mine or such 17:33:45 <andythenorth> anyway, time to go :) 17:53:09 *** frosch123 has quit IRC 18:04:08 <Brot6> 32bpp-ez-patches: update from r20836 to r20839 done (2 errors) - http://bundles.openttdcoop.org/32bpp-ez-patches/testing/r20839 18:14:21 <Brot6> clientpatches: update from r20836 to r20839 done (2 errors) - http://bundles.openttdcoop.org/clientpatches/testing/r20839 18:15:08 <Ammler> hmm, do we need to compile against unpatched openttd to count those errors too? 18:24:25 <Brot6> serverpatches: update from h575f8c4d to h72c89b58 done (4 errors) - http://bundles.openttdcoop.org/serverpatches/testing/h72c89b58 18:32:30 <andythenorth> so... any more thoughts on chemicals cargo? 18:43:26 <Hirundo> What did 'they' use pre-1900? 18:55:01 <andythenorth> 'stuff' 18:55:27 <andythenorth> lime, nitrates, phosphates, coal tar 18:55:29 <andythenorth> stuff 19:44:09 <andythenorth> Hirundo: planetmaker something like sulphur seems to be a historically important chemical 19:44:43 <Hirundo> george's ECS had it, then dropped it again IIRC 19:44:54 <andythenorth> Dyes are also important 19:45:07 <andythenorth> I'm starting to understand ECS design more and more 19:45:24 <andythenorth> although it does seem to be 'design by wikipedia' :P 19:45:54 <planetmaker> :-D 19:46:11 <Hirundo> I think your approach with more generic cargoes (e.g. supplies, metal, fruit/veggies) is more suited to OpenTTD's gameplay 19:46:51 <andythenorth> what I would like is one alternative source of chemicals to oil 19:46:55 * andythenorth ponders 19:47:08 <planetmaker> "source of chemicals to oil"? 19:47:20 <planetmaker> that doesn't parse to me ;-) 19:48:34 <andythenorth> ok 19:48:54 <andythenorth> an alternative input cargo for producing chemicals (additional to oil) 19:49:03 <planetmaker> ah :-) 19:49:26 <andythenorth> like phosphate or suplhate or rock salt or such 19:49:34 <planetmaker> potash or lime? 19:49:47 <andythenorth> lime is just from limestone? 19:49:51 <andythenorth> which is stone 19:50:01 <planetmaker> yes 19:50:26 <planetmaker> but treat it, crack it... you can make chemicals out of it 19:50:30 <andythenorth> hmm 19:50:41 <andythenorth> so how about 'mineral processor' or such 19:50:47 <andythenorth> stone -> chemicals 19:50:56 <andythenorth> could stone include phosphates etc? 19:50:57 <planetmaker> what kind of 'stone'? 19:51:02 <planetmaker> there's no stone cargo ;-) 19:51:13 <planetmaker> gravel or sand won't do for this 19:51:28 <andythenorth> we changed gravel to stonr 19:51:29 <andythenorth> stone /s 19:51:38 <planetmaker> oh, did we? I missed that 19:51:53 <andythenorth> it produces less whining about the cement plant :) 19:52:00 <planetmaker> yes, it's nicer. 19:52:09 <planetmaker> it could also directly be delivered to the construction yard 19:52:43 <andythenorth> don't unpick that long discussion :) 19:52:49 <andythenorth> you were away that weekend ;) 19:52:54 <Brot6> GRFCodec - Revision 770:eb6b53fd5c9c: Change: make compilation not fail on missing -D$(TYPESIZE) ... (Rubidium) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/grfcodec/repository/revisions/eb6b53fd5c9c 19:52:55 <planetmaker> uh? 19:53:37 <planetmaker> well... just stone->chemicals is...somewhat wrong. 19:53:41 <planetmaker> what other mines are there? 19:53:46 <andythenorth> we discussed the cement / stone / sand / building materials chain for a very long time recently :) 19:53:47 <planetmaker> potash? 19:53:50 <andythenorth> yup 19:53:58 <planetmaker> that to chemicals is nice 19:54:15 <andythenorth> I had some economy ideas sketched 19:54:17 <andythenorth> nitrate mine -> chemicals directly 19:54:25 <andythenorth> phosphate mine -> chemicals directly 19:55:36 <Terkhen> some people will go ballistic if they hear that :P 19:57:12 *** fanioz has quit IRC 19:57:16 <andythenorth> who? :) 19:58:59 <Terkhen> well, I remember some discussion about the blacksmith... 19:59:05 <andythenorth> :) 19:59:13 <andythenorth> btw I don't want new cargos 19:59:21 <andythenorth> just a source for chemicals in early games 19:59:35 <andythenorth> 'alchemist' :P 20:00:02 <Terkhen> beats my magic genie idea :) 20:03:20 <andythenorth> something like lime kiln might be best 20:03:24 <andythenorth> otherwise new cargos are needed :P 20:04:19 <andythenorth> hmmm 20:04:27 <andythenorth> one industry currently missing is guano mine 20:04:36 <andythenorth> guano = phosphate / nitrate (?) 20:05:35 <andythenorth> it is supposed to produce FMSP directly 20:06:45 * planetmaker has no idea what guano actually is except an assortment of letters :-P 20:06:53 <andythenorth> seagull poo 20:06:56 <andythenorth> or bat poo 20:06:59 <SmatZ> iguano? 20:07:12 <Terkhen> andythenorth: it was intended to replace old string names with new ones at the translations? 20:07:14 <planetmaker> hm... it's even the same in German 20:07:14 <andythenorth> terkhen might know: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guano 20:07:15 <Webster> Title: Guano - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (at en.wikipedia.org) 20:07:26 <andythenorth> Terkhen: unfortunately yes, sorry 20:07:43 <andythenorth> I have tried to identify string changes with a separate commit (where I remember) 20:07:53 <planetmaker> a guano mine could produce both, FMSP and something going to the chemical plant 20:08:04 <planetmaker> however that *something* is called 20:08:11 <Terkhen> hmmm... if the translations were not modified, I could know which strings are now incorrectly translated just by running the script 20:08:33 <planetmaker> "in the 19th century guano was a popular fertilizer" :-) 20:08:40 <andythenorth> the translation defines changed, but not the strings 20:08:46 <Terkhen> but those are detected as present translations 20:08:55 <Terkhen> I'm talking about the cotton -> natural fibres change 20:09:23 <planetmaker> hm, yes. andythenorth if you change a string. Delete it from translations 20:09:42 <planetmaker> Or they'll horribly break (from the wording) 20:09:58 <Terkhen> a script to detect "orphan" strings would be easy 20:10:03 <planetmaker> yep 20:10:33 <Terkhen> IIRC I have a diff somewhere, and a half done implementation of "check if a string has been updated since it has been translated" 20:11:15 <Terkhen> anyways, IMO the best is to not touch the translations and let the script take care of detecting all changes/missing strings 20:11:46 <planetmaker> :-) 20:15:00 <andythenorth> so I need to distinguish two issues: 20:15:03 <andythenorth> (1) string changes 20:15:06 <andythenorth> (2) define changes 20:15:14 <andythenorth> what is correct behaviour for each? 20:16:43 <Terkhen> http://devs.openttd.org/~terkhen/patches/firs/10-orphan_strings.diff <-- here it is 20:17:18 <Terkhen> the current script with that diff added should take care of define changes: it will list all missing strings and all not required string for a translation 20:17:41 <Terkhen> then the translator (assuming that he can run that script or get the results) can take care of the changes accordingly 20:18:14 <Terkhen> to take care of the strings changes, we would need something to list which strings have been changed 20:18:43 <Terkhen> I was working on something with hg blame, but it got harder than expected and I ended up forgetting about it 20:22:24 <andythenorth> so do I need to do anything? :o 20:25:07 <Terkhen> unless my idea about this is wrong, you don't 20:28:18 *** frosch123 has joined #openttdcoop.devzone 20:28:28 * andythenorth learns about caliche 20:28:28 <andythenorth> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caliche_(mineral)#Economic_uses 20:28:45 <andythenorth> it's a source of CaCO3, same as limestone is 20:29:05 <andythenorth> but also has chemical applications 20:29:17 <andythenorth> and is used in sugar refining :o 20:31:23 <andythenorth> Chilean Saltpeter, Guano and Chilean Caliche all seem to be related sources of industrial chemicals 20:32:22 <andythenorth> so a Guano mine would be sufficient to cover all that :) 20:32:34 <andythenorth> dunno if it needs a processor though 20:32:45 <andythenorth> can a mine produce chemicals direct? 20:32:58 <Brot6> NFORenum - Bug #1543 (New): Checking var 5F is not correct for Houses while CB 17 (George) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/1543 20:33:52 <Terkhen> IIRC in early years guano was used directly 20:34:29 <Terkhen> about the mine... would a secondary industry for chemical serve any in game purpose? 20:36:12 <andythenorth> it provides a source of chemicals prior to 1884 20:36:14 <planetmaker> in what way secondary for chemicals? 20:36:29 <planetmaker> you mean a second industry supplying them? 20:36:34 <andythenorth> currently only source is refinery - available 1884 :) 20:36:51 <planetmaker> well. Chemistry wasn't big before that time... 20:36:58 <andythenorth> "Saltpeter works" 20:36:59 <andythenorth> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Humberstone_and_Santa_Laura_Saltpeter_Works 20:37:05 <Webster> Title: Humberstone and Santa Laura Saltpeter Works - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (at en.wikipedia.org) 20:39:23 <andythenorth> an alternative is a potash works 20:39:34 <andythenorth> consuming stone, wood and plant fibres :) 20:39:42 <andythenorth> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Potash#History 20:39:44 <Webster> Title: Potash - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (at en.wikipedia.org) 20:44:25 <planetmaker> dbg: [grf] Scan complete, found 475 files <-- I guess my openttd data dir has too many files :-P 20:45:34 <Rubidium> fdupes :) 20:46:18 <planetmaker> it doesn't tell. at least by default 20:47:34 <andythenorth> planetmaker: potash as a new cargo? :P 20:47:52 <planetmaker> he... 20:47:59 <planetmaker> yet another mine? 20:47:59 <andythenorth> "3 slots free" 20:48:07 <planetmaker> what purpose does it serve? 20:48:07 <frosch123> what was the syntax for the commit message to close the task? 20:48:15 <andythenorth> source of chemicals 20:48:20 <planetmaker> Fix #XY: Nasty stuff 20:48:28 <andythenorth> potash -> processor -> chemicals 20:48:30 <planetmaker> where XY is the issue number 20:48:35 <andythenorth> potash just *is* chemicals though :P 20:48:58 <planetmaker> andythenorth: then the processor is a stone mill 20:49:08 <frosch123> thanks :) 20:49:36 <Brot6> NFORenum - Bug #1543 (Closed): Checking var 5F is not correct for Houses while CB 17 (George) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/1543 20:49:36 <Brot6> GRFCodec - Revision 771:47b8cf398428: Fix #1543: Action 2 variable 5F had wrong length for most f... (frosch) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/grfcodec/repository/revisions/47b8cf398428 20:49:36 <Brot6> NFORenum - Bug #1543 (Closed): Checking var 5F is not correct for Houses while CB 17 (frosch) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/1543#change-4038 20:49:46 <andythenorth> wood + stone + plant fibres -> potash kiln -> chemicals 20:53:25 <Terkhen> I got my hg blame thing working; but of course it will say that the string changed even if the only change was resorting them alphabetically 20:54:00 <frosch123> try git, they are so proud to say they track content not files :p 20:54:43 <Terkhen> I should try something more intelligent than revision numbers :P 21:07:22 <Brot6> Total Town Replacement Set - Revision 23:362119856638: Fix: [DOC] Wrong URL for hg access (planetmaker) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/ttrs/repository/revisions/362119856638 21:08:59 <Brot6> FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Feature #1305: Detect missing strings (Terkhen) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/1305#change-4039 21:09:19 <andythenorth> good night 21:09:33 <planetmaker> nighty nigh 21:13:50 <planetmaker> Terkhen: obviously candy is only defined as express cargo class. which is... stuipd IMHO 21:14:52 <planetmaker> but that's why it wasn't transport-able by that wagon 21:21:20 <Terkhen> hm 21:21:54 <Terkhen> I couldn't find any refittable wagon that could transport it 21:31:32 *** thgergo has quit IRC 21:39:54 <planetmaker> not yet. But in the uncomitted stuff I play around with here :-) 21:42:00 <planetmaker> you could try r8 now ;-) 21:42:17 <planetmaker> ^ Terkhen 21:42:47 <Brot6> OpenGFX+ Trains - Revision 8:46fc5611bc5b: Fix #1528: Goods wagon transports also express goods (planetmaker) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/ogfx-trains/repository/revisions/46fc5611bc5b 21:42:47 <Brot6> OpenGFX+ Trains - Feature #1528 (Closed): Support for additional cargos (planetmaker) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/1528#change-4040 21:44:22 <planetmaker> graphics are not yet touched, though 21:46:42 <Brot6> OpenGFX+ Trains - Feature #1528 (Assigned): Support for additional cargos (planetmaker) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/1528#change-4041 22:13:22 *** frosch123 has quit IRC 22:33:05 *** ODM has quit IRC 23:56:44 *** KenjiE20 has quit IRC