Log for #openttdcoop.devzone on 26th January 2011:
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03:24:42  <Brot6> 2cc train set - Feature #2007: Complete Rework of Freight rolling stock (EmperorJake) @
03:26:46  <Brot6> 2cc train set - Feature #2007: Complete Rework of Freight rolling stock (EmperorJake) @
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07:25:09  <Brot6> 2cc train set - Feature #2007: Complete Rework of Freight rolling stock (DJNekkid) @
07:25:55  <Brot6> 2cc train set - Feature #2007: Complete Rework of Freight rolling stock (Voyager1) @
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09:27:43  <Brot6> HEQS "Heavy Equipment" Set - Revision 569:b761182b85f6: Feature: updated HEQS User Manual to 1.0 (andythenorth) @
09:57:25  <Brot6> HEQS "Heavy Equipment" Set - Revision 570:c337b9c57532: Change: copy edits in User Manual (andythenorth) @
10:14:21  <Brot6> HEQS "Heavy Equipment" Set - Revision 571:273bd085ecdb: Change: copy edits in User Manual, upda... (andythenorth) @
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10:33:54  <dihedral>
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10:34:08  <dihedral> can you set 'hudson_label' ?
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10:34:17  <dihedral> it's missing a translation for en_GB
10:34:23  <Brot6> 2cc train set - Feature #2007: Complete Rework of Freight rolling stock (EmperorJake) @
10:34:31  <dihedral> hello andythenorth or should i say andythejoiner? :-P
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11:04:23  <dihedral> is it possible that the donate button opens in a new tab?
11:10:35  <planetmaker> \o/ :-)
11:10:47  <planetmaker> dihedral, you mean "it does" or "it should"?
11:11:03  <dihedral> it should :-)
11:11:08  <dihedral> you got an email? :-D
11:11:12  <planetmaker> yes
11:11:39  <dihedral> i feel generous today :-P
11:11:51  <planetmaker> :-) A nice one which tells me the server is paid for another 14 days or so
11:12:00  <dihedral> aye
11:12:28  <dihedral> some one went to openttd too
11:12:36  <planetmaker> :-)
11:13:46  <planetmaker> btw, it's a good point to open a separate tab. I shall look at that.
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11:18:03  <dihedral> should do the same :-)
11:18:08  <dihedral> Rubidium, hint, hint :-P
11:19:51  <Rubidium> why should it?
11:22:00  <Ammler> planetmaker: sep project :-)
11:27:30  <dihedral> Rubidium, because it's not the same page
11:27:53  <dihedral> and after donation one might want to continue on the original page
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11:33:14  <dihedral> i managed to register my first command in grapes early this morning :-)
11:33:30  <dihedral> however it cannot yet be triggered :-P
11:33:34  <dihedral> but that is another part
11:33:34  <dihedral> :-D
11:34:12  <dihedral> + one can only register commands while the plugin's init method is being invoked :-P
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13:12:34  <Ammler> planetmaker: dihedral, do you use german translation for DevZone (Redmine)?
13:12:56  <Ammler> if so, please report bad translations so I can forward those to upstream
13:13:27  <Ammler> like "Zweig" or "Markierung"
13:14:26  <dihedral> i was using en-GB
13:14:41  <dihedral> en-US is fine with the label_hudson
13:15:06  <dihedral> i can go through the devzone in german later on
13:15:47  <Ammler> do you know German Dev using Zweig or Markierung for branch/tag?
13:15:55  <Ammler> :-)
13:17:30  <planetmaker> I think I might be using the German version at home. Not sure, though
13:17:59  <dihedral> Ammler, that is horrible :-P
13:21:08  <andythenorth_> how was it established that TTD sun is NE (top right)
13:21:09  <andythenorth_> ?
13:21:16  <andythenorth_> that seems to be the convention in many sets
13:21:19  <andythenorth_> but it's wrong :P
13:21:45  <andythenorth_> sun is SE in most original sprites
13:22:39  <andythenorth_> or E
13:22:45  <andythenorth_> it seems to vary a bit by climate :P
13:23:06  <Ammler> it also might depend where north is
13:23:37  <Ammler> north is openttd north-west
13:24:19  <andythenorth_> quite a lot of FIRS is...wrong
13:24:27  <Ammler> so your SE might be E and your E is NE
13:24:41  <Ammler> which then is good :-)
13:25:50  <Ammler> or is it NE with "your directions"?
13:26:12  <andythenorth_> I've been drawing the sun top right
13:26:21  <andythenorth_> but it's more likely right or bottom right
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13:27:52  <planetmaker> Ammler, OpenTTD coordinates are: upper corner = North
13:27:53  <Ammler> hmm, nfo wiki uses same north as openttd
13:28:05  <planetmaker> so NE = upper right border
13:28:56  <planetmaker> Only the (old?) openttdcoop definition of the directions is wrong
13:28:59  <Ammler> planetmaker: yes I said that already
13:29:11  <Ammler> planetmaker: not wrong and not old :-)
13:29:34  <dihedral> lol?
13:29:36  <Ammler> or did someone change that in the meantime?
13:29:40  <planetmaker> of course. It's neither, intuitive, neither related to the code nor any standard. It's like defining North is down
13:29:55  <dihedral> why is it called "naher osten" and not "ferner westen"
13:30:06  <Ammler> lol
13:30:23  <dihedral> americans call it far east, do they not?
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13:30:46  <Ammler> :-o
13:31:30  <planetmaker> oh..quite not unknown:
13:31:31  <Webster> Title: Far West - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (at
13:31:59  <Ammler> !wiki compass
13:32:07  <Ammler> @wiki compass
13:32:09  <Webster> Ammler: An error has occurred and has been logged. Please contact this bot's administrator for more information.
13:32:18  <planetmaker> he :-P
13:32:22  <Ammler> :-D
13:32:31  <Ammler> @wiki compas
13:32:32  <Webster> Ammler:
13:32:33  <Webster> Ammler: There is no page titled "compas".
13:32:39  <Ammler> @wiki compass
13:32:40  <Webster> Ammler: An error has occurred and has been logged. Please contact this bot's administrator for more information.
13:33:13  <planetmaker> inetnum: -
13:33:13  <planetmaker> netname:        TV-HIFI-VIDEO-LEIPZIG-NET
13:33:16  <planetmaker> hehe ;-)
13:33:22  <Ammler> <-- we still use the compass which is drawable on the map
13:33:27  <planetmaker> business should know better than to root-surf the web
13:33:39  <planetmaker> Ammler, and I still (for years) think it's wrong to maintain that
13:34:03  <planetmaker> I won't fight to correct it, but I won't teach it, but I'll teach the true North ;-)
13:34:10  <Ammler> well, that is since yexo made the nowater patch :-P
13:34:33  <planetmaker> Not really. but around that time might be that I became aware of this error.
13:35:00  <planetmaker> as I tried to write a better GUI for that :-)
13:35:12  <Ammler> well, draw a compass on the map and we change it :-P
13:35:35  <planetmaker> I did already a few times ingame :-P
13:35:54  <Ammler> then why does wiki state it isn't possible?
13:36:21  <planetmaker> some thickhead wrote the page maybe? ;-)
13:36:27  <planetmaker> Diagonals work fine for me
13:37:27  <planetmaker> and I don't really care how nice or not nice it looks. More important is that it's intuitive. Which means North = up
13:37:40  <Ammler> using that north is like using orange as company color :-)
13:37:49  <planetmaker> I have here a map with South=up - and dear, I can tell you it's... anything but easy to find stuff ;-)
13:38:02  <Ammler> but I wouldn't care to alter that to openttd/newgrf standard
13:38:38  <planetmaker> :-)
13:38:45  <Ammler> but that is OT here anyway
13:39:36  <planetmaker> well... maybe 5% on-topic ;-)
13:43:28  <Brot6> 2cc train set - Feature #2125: Shinkansen Series 700 redrawn (EmperorJake) @
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13:50:06  <planetmaker> <-- better? ;-)
14:00:20  <Ammler> wow :-o
14:13:07  <andythenorth_> he
14:13:50  <SmatZ> :-)
14:14:04  <SmatZ> was it different in the past?
14:14:14  <planetmaker> look at the page's history ;-)
14:14:21  <planetmaker> the coop compass was... strange
14:14:34  <Ammler> don't tell me, you don't know how the good old compass looked :-P
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14:14:53  <Ammler> mäh planetmaker...
14:14:54  <planetmaker> But I know how to use a sextant :-P
14:15:07  <SmatZ> yeah, I always confused North and East in the old compass :-)
14:15:10  <planetmaker> hm, Ammler ?
14:15:21  <Ammler> planetmaker: you can blame Mucht and Truelight for that compass
14:15:24  <SmatZ> also it was different from the "development" one
14:15:36  <planetmaker> Ammler, no problem. :-P
14:15:53  <SmatZ> now, we should clarify what direction is "diagonal"
14:16:00  <planetmaker> both are not here ;-) - so it's easily done
14:16:19  <planetmaker> SmatZ, please add a definition ;-) - then it's set into stone as well
14:16:22  <SmatZ> :-D
14:16:47  <SmatZ> I think, diagonal should be "track in X or Y axis"
14:16:47  <planetmaker> nah, honestly :-)
14:16:54  <planetmaker> It's a good idea to add a definition to the wiki
14:17:05  <SmatZ> eg. then one going in direction of NE/SW or SW/NE
14:17:12  <SmatZ> err SE/NW
14:17:39  <SmatZ> btu I wouldn't wonder if the term "diagonal" wasn't unified in OpenTTD code neither
14:17:44  <SmatZ> bbl
14:17:51  <planetmaker> :-) I can live with either definitions as I don't have a strong view there.
14:17:58  <planetmaker> enjoy whatever you're up to :-)
14:18:09  <SmatZ> thanks :)
14:20:50  <Ammler> I hope, you won't harm me too much if I will use norht for nw still sometimes :-(
14:21:51  <Ammler> I guess, it would be better to use nw-sw-se-ne instead n-w-s-e
14:29:38  <planetmaker> you know, I can never harm an Ammler ;-)
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15:14:56  <DanMacK> Hey all
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15:29:40  <DJNekkid> howdy peeps
15:34:38  * DanMacK waves
15:35:26  <V453000> hi DJNekkid :) nutracks work very nicely ... I have a question though :) do the newer tracks get unlocked just at some set dates, or with introduction of a fast train that would need some better rails?
15:36:03  <DJNekkid> both
15:36:28  <DJNekkid> lets say that the 180kmh elrails come in 1950
15:37:33  <DJNekkid> but there is an electrical engine that goes >125kmh in 1940, and that engine _IS_ a "EMED" engine (as opposed to an ELRL engine) then both the tracks and the engine comes
15:38:00  <DJNekkid> but if that engine is an ELRL engine, the tracks will come in 1950
15:38:11  <V453000> I see
15:39:29  <V453000> well, I suppose that is good enough :) I was just curious
15:39:31  <V453000> thansk
15:39:34  <V453000> thanks
15:39:47  <DJNekkid> they _could_ be introduced all at once, but i dont think that is a good idea
15:39:56  <DJNekkid> especially not very n00b friendly
15:40:03  <V453000> true :)
15:41:16  <DJNekkid> but in the case of the 2cc trainset will new tracks be introduced when they are needed
15:41:27  <Rubidium> rail introduction has become quite complex
15:41:28  <DJNekkid> but; you need the nightly that comes tonight
15:41:49  <V453000> :)
15:41:56  <DJNekkid> but also V453000 ...
15:41:57  <Rubidium> there are basically 4 factors that influence introduction
15:42:01  <V453000> I dont use 2cc trainset so meh :)
15:42:06  <DJNekkid> if there are no ELRL engine
15:42:27  <DJNekkid> but there comes a ELOW (125kmh) one, then both ELOW and ELRL gets introduced
15:42:38  <V453000> ah
15:42:46  <V453000> ok :)
15:42:48  <DJNekkid> what are you playing with btw?
15:43:01  <V453000> train sets?
15:43:09  <DJNekkid> yes
15:43:54  <V453000> I consider UKRS the best because it offers quite a few of very balanced possibilities how to make your network, but I also use tropic refurbishment set, US trainset with DB XL are nice too
15:44:51  <DJNekkid> i do have some secret plan to make some built in support for ukrs1 and dbxl
15:45:00  <V453000> neat :)
15:45:47  <DanMacK> Ever try NARS?  :P
15:46:00  <V453000> yes, only good for the steamers
15:46:17  <Rubidium> DJNekkid: I wouldn't touch DBXL out of fear ;)
15:46:45  <DanMacK> heh...  Too many diesels?
15:46:48  <V453000> I alwas combine NARS with some other train set. Mostly Tropic Refurbishment Set because they fit very well to each other.
15:46:55  <DJNekkid> Rubidium: it have crossed my mind, i guess i just need to keep it scilent :)
15:47:21  <V453000> DanMack: yes, too many useless trains, just adds tons of trains without any real use which makes it quite boring unfortunately :( (same opinion goes for 2cc from me)
15:48:14  <V453000> but NARS is brilliantly drawn and the steamers allow some extensive fun even from 1900, so I could have NARS + Tropic R.S. and I have a game from 1900 to 2041 with new engines all the time, plus TRS has some strong engines which NARS lacks
15:48:53  <DJNekkid> V453000: with the 2cc set you have engiens from 1835 :P
15:49:04  <V453000> I know, with NARS too I think
15:49:08  <V453000> but the useful ones :P
15:49:26  <DanMacK> Well, NARS has pretty much everything from NA :P
15:49:27  <V453000> with 2cc you get hudson in 1939 and then you swap for .... uhm ... Lok2000?
15:49:54  <DJNekkid> i would not go that far :)
15:49:54  <V453000> DanMacK: yes, that is nice but I almost always disable most of the regearing locomotives by the parameter so they do not make mess :)
15:50:16  <DanMacK> Yeah, regearing is handy, but can get to be too much
15:51:05  <V453000> regearing seems to be very nice on the first sight, but since one usually replaces trains by autoreplacing, it gets pretty useless :(
15:51:29  * DanMacK never uses autpreplace
15:51:38  <V453000> but without the regearing, it is a nice set to be added to other sets just for the amazing steamers :)
15:52:17  <DanMacK> There's not much excitement in North American diesels after about 1960 though...  lol
15:52:37  <DanMacK> they all look pretty much the same, esp. at TTD scale
15:52:48  <V453000> he :)
15:53:07  <DanMacK> trust me, it was a challenge to make certain things look different... lol
15:53:24  <V453000> I believe that :D
15:54:54  <V453000> but in my opinion, making 3-5 which differ a lot from each other would be much more fun for the gameplay in the end :)
15:55:59  <DJNekkid> V453000: My plan for the 2cc set is to go over the entire table, and then write down what engine would replace the current one
15:56:13  <DJNekkid> and then have the availability overlap by 20% or something
15:56:30  <DJNekkid> atleast until modern times
15:56:47  <V453000> I see
15:56:59  <V453000> well, would be nice :)
15:57:40  <V453000> I dont know how others, but I enjoy to replace trains a lot, often get new ones :) If I get 2nd fastest train in 1940, it gets kind of boring especially if there is a load of other engines
15:57:53  <V453000> fastest/most useful/strongest
15:58:54  <V453000> which is one of the points why I find original train set good :)
15:59:11  <V453000> but gets boring because it basically offers ... 4 possibilities to end up with
15:59:39  <DJNekkid> well, there are 29 engines that are faster then the hudson
16:00:34  <V453000> 29? :)
16:00:45  <DJNekkid> yes, 29
16:00:51  <V453000> well, count the cargo ones :)
16:01:02  <V453000> there is like 1984 TGVs and similars :D
16:01:48  <DJNekkid> that were ENGINES
16:01:52  <DJNekkid> no MUs or others
16:02:04  <V453000> oh :)
16:02:43  <DJNekkid> 35 with more HP
16:03:33  <DJNekkid> 83 with better TE
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16:05:53  <DJNekkid> the TE drags it down methinks
16:07:06  <V453000> well, that is nice, but you buy hudson in 39, and then a better train comes in 1970 - DB Class 103, and then in 1991 Lok2000, 2000 - Taurus
16:07:11  <V453000> all that happens :)
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16:07:28  <DanM> Silly server...
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16:08:27  <DJNekkid> imo is the sharknose better, that come in 1950
16:08:29  <V453000> btw DJNekkid: how high capacities do 4th gen wagons have now for the latest nightlies of 2cc?
16:08:45  <DJNekkid> nothing have changed in that department in ages
16:09:03  <V453000> so it is final? :(
16:09:04  <DJNekkid> btw, if i multiply HP, power and max speed is the hudson nr46
16:09:41  <V453000> yes, but you need to multiply :
16:09:42  <V453000> :)
16:10:00  <V453000> which autoreplace isnt able to do :)
16:10:40  <DJNekkid> yet
16:11:22  <V453000> well, okay :) but why are the wagon capacities so high? it is double than other sets like UKRS :O
16:12:01  <DJNekkid> 1969: EMD DDAX
16:12:06  <V453000> 49 was ... already a lot
16:12:06  <DJNekkid> DDA40X
16:12:36  <DJNekkid> 50% more power, 3x the TE
16:13:15  <DJNekkid> 1953: two electrics, 1kmh faster, not so much HP but more TE
16:13:46  <DJNekkid> 1935: Greseley A4. Faster but less HP and TE
16:14:15  <DJNekkid> 1935: American electric with similar hp and better TE, 160kmh
16:14:22  <DJNekkid> very expensive tho
16:14:29  <DJNekkid> but cheap to run compared to steam
16:14:32  <V453000> yes :)
16:16:26  <DJNekkid> btw, unless you didnt know
16:16:59  <DJNekkid> Compared to the diesel engiens:
16:17:25  <DJNekkid> Steam cost 80% to buy, but cost 20% more to run
16:17:44  <DJNekkid> Electrics cost 20% more to buy, but only 80% of the cost to run
16:18:00  <DJNekkid> but the wagon capacities...
16:18:10  <DJNekkid> i dont know. All is just guesstimates
16:18:15  <V453000> yes, steamers good to be cheap for beginnings :)
16:18:45  <V453000> well, yes, but guesstimates with double than usual looks insanely high so I thought it has some reason :)
16:19:20  <V453000> I would not go over 40 for primaries to be honest
16:19:53  <DJNekkid> well, Emperor Jake is drawing a bunch of new cargowagons
16:20:00  <DJNekkid> so lets see what he can come up with
16:20:48  <V453000> :)) much needed, I really liked the 1.0.1 livestock van because it was visible whether it is loaded or not ... which isnt all that common among livestock wagons :)
16:21:19  <DJNekkid> it still does afaik
16:21:56  <V453000> I think it doesnt but I cant argue :) not entirely sure
16:26:19  <DJNekkid> it still does
16:30:00  <V453000> wondering how come I thought otherwise -.-
16:31:25  * DanMacK hasn't tried 2CC in awhile...  may have to pick up the latest beta and test
16:32:12  <DanMacK> most of my games now don't even use trains...
16:33:43  <V453000> :D
16:35:59  <DJNekkid> DanMacK: pick the .grf thats on the 2nd lats page on the 2cc trainset thread
16:36:03  <DJNekkid> or wait for tonights nightly
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17:18:18  <Brot6> 2cctrainset: update from r726 to r727 done (6 errors) -
17:18:59  <Brot6> heqs: update from r567 to r571 done -
17:19:13  <Brot6> Following repos didn't need a nightlies update: 32bpp-extra (r39), ai-admiralai (r75), ai-aroai (r11), ailib-common (r21), ailib-direction (r17), ailib-list (r32), ailib-string (r29), ailib-tile (r16), airportsplus (r70), basecosts (r22), belarusiantowns (r8), bros (r45), comic-houses (r71), firs (r1631), fish (ERROR r532), frenchtowns (r6), grfcodec (r821), indonesiantowns (r41), manindu (r6), metrotrackset (r56), narvs (r5),
17:19:13  <Brot6> newgrf_makefile (r254), nml (r1138), nutracks (r165), ogfx-industries (r3), ogfx-landscape (r22), ogfx-rv (r78), ogfx-trains (r201), ogfx-trees (r42), opengfx (r593), openmsx (r97), opensfx (r97), smts (r19), snowlinemod (r45), spanishtowns (r10), swedishrails (r193), swisstowns (r22), transrapidtrackset (r15), ttdviewer (r26), ttrs (r24), worldairlinersset (r671)
17:38:10  <DJ_Nekkid> Ammler: i've tried 11.2 and 11."4"
17:38:14  <DJ_Nekkid> and neither works
17:39:20  <DJ_Nekkid> 11.1 seems to work very stabl
17:39:21  <DJ_Nekkid> e
17:39:24  <Ammler> DJ_Nekkid: could you try without that desktop repo
17:39:34  <DJ_Nekkid> i did
17:39:56  <Ammler> so you have only oss,non-oss,update & packman?
17:39:59  <DJ_Nekkid> 11.2+ is even haveing a hard time installing, seems to be the NIC that is hanging
17:40:35  <DJ_Nekkid> currntly updateing 11.1
17:40:46  <DJ_Nekkid> and gonna try to reboot it a few times and see what happens
17:41:05  <Ammler> then you might better use another distro, as opensuse 11.1 doesn't exist anymore
17:41:21  <Ammler> well, except evergreen
17:41:37  <DJ_Nekkid> evergreen?
17:42:06  <Ammler> evergreen is a starting project to make openSUSE 11.1 LTS
17:42:21  <DJ_Nekkid> aha
17:42:42  <Ammler> you won't get updates anymore, but you could use evergreen instead
17:43:34  <DJ_Nekkid> well...
17:43:39  <DJ_Nekkid> as i saied yesterday
17:43:46  <DJ_Nekkid> for ME, i dont think it matter THAT much
17:44:11  <Ammler>
17:44:12  <Webster> Title: Index of /repositories/openSUSE:/Evergreen:/11.1/standard (at
17:44:29  <Ammler> you can add that additionally to your update repo
17:44:49  <DJ_Nekkid> i only use the machine to build grfs, be a samba fileserver for music and video
17:44:50  <Ammler> well, if you use opensuse, you should upgrade your distro at least yearly
17:45:07  <Ammler> as a version has 18 months support only
17:45:41  <Ammler> but it is quite sad, the newer distros don't support your nic anymore
17:46:01  <DJ_Nekkid> i find that very wierd
17:46:08  <Ammler> it might be fixeable by advanced users together with bugtracker but not for starter like you
17:46:11  <DJ_Nekkid> as the mobo itself is max 1 year old
17:46:35  <Ammler> well, you could test Fedora:14
17:46:58  <DJ_Nekkid> neh...
17:47:08  <Ammler> Fedora is quite much like openSUSE
17:47:10  <DJ_Nekkid> i think i'll just stick to that 11.1
17:47:18  <DJ_Nekkid> btw
17:47:21  <DJ_Nekkid> yea...
17:47:25  <DJ_Nekkid> i actually tried
17:47:30  <DJ_Nekkid> same hang
17:47:37  <Ammler> yeah, just be aware, you use a depreciated version :-)
17:47:56  <Ammler> but with Evergreen, it is useable
17:48:26  <DJ_Nekkid> let me try to reboot the machine a few times and see if there are any hangs
17:48:58  <Ammler> could you paste a zypper lr -d again?
17:49:15  <DJ_Nekkid> im on X-chat on my windows machine atm
17:50:10  <Ammler> zypper lr -d |
17:50:45  <Ammler> cp to /usr/local/bin/
17:50:53  <Ammler> wget*
17:51:17  <DJ_Nekkid> maybe i'll just buy a new mob
17:51:20  <DJ_Nekkid> mobo
17:51:26  <Ammler> hmm
17:52:06  <Ammler> you could also paste lspci
17:52:24  <Ammler> then we could check the opensuse tracker if there is a known bug with that card
17:53:32  <Ammler> maybe I am just lucky everytime I upgrade
17:53:46  <Ammler> but in my case, things works everytime better :-)
17:53:55  <Ammler> specially my Laptop rocks now
17:54:49  <DJ_Nekkid> it dont find the command
17:55:03  <Ammler> I usually wait around 1-2 months after the release and then I upgrade
17:55:15  <Ammler> oh, you need to chmod +x it
17:55:52  <DJ_Nekkid>
17:56:23  <Ammler> it is quite cool, you can also paste files with it " <file> [<file>..]
17:56:50  <Ammler> hmm
17:57:00  <Ammler> is that really the url it created?
17:58:20  <DJ_Nekkid> no, that were a pure paste of 'zypper lr -d' and lspci
17:59:28  <DJ_Nekkid> it doesnt look like that python script worked
18:00:09  <Ammler> yes openttdcoop
18:00:26  <DJ_Nekkid> what?
18:01:13  <DJ_Nekkid>
18:04:26  <Ammler> it might need python-xml or libxml2-python (zypper in ...)
18:04:36  <planetmaker> DJ_Nekkid, :
18:04:38  <planetmaker> <Chris_Booth> we converted to medium speed rail
18:04:39  <planetmaker> <Chris_Booth> only to find our locos couldn't run on it
18:04:39  <planetmaker> <Chris_Booth> it cost £200,000 to convert
18:04:39  <planetmaker> <planetmaker> from which track?
18:04:39  <planetmaker> <Chris_Booth> when turned back into low speed it gave use + £5,000,000
18:05:33  <DJ_Nekkid> planetmaker: yes, i know there is an issue with that...
18:05:39  *** Chris_Booth has joined #openttdcoop.devzone
18:05:42  <DJ_Nekkid> just gotta figure out what to do with my server first :D
18:05:47  <planetmaker> ok :-) Just making sure you know
18:05:54  <DJ_Nekkid> goodie :D
18:05:56  <planetmaker> I just saw that in a conversation on stable
18:06:21  <planetmaker> a nice and easy way to get money. Better than the money cheat as it works in MP
18:08:19  *** Chris_Booth has left #openttdcoop.devzone
18:11:48  <Ammler> DJ_Nekkid: the only issues I find with that network card are related to multiboot with windows
18:12:59  <Rubidium> I though there was code to prevent income from rail to exceed cost of rail, but apparantly it fails
18:13:27  <planetmaker> Possibly conversion should always cost
18:14:13  <Rubidium> it should be slightly cheaper than removal + rebuild, but more expensive than removal
18:14:22  <Ammler> conversion cost = cost of new tracks - income from sold
18:14:58  <Ammler> of old tracks
18:15:06  <planetmaker> well... not sure whether that's always sensible :-)
18:15:22  <planetmaker> converting from medium speed rails to low should probably not cost nor pay at all
18:15:38  <planetmaker> while the reverse might be the difference plus a bit
18:15:47  <Ammler> that is up to the set author
18:16:05  <planetmaker> but ... there's no universal way to decide. And it's not in the newgrf's domain to decide
18:16:08  <Ammler> he can balance costs that way
18:16:39  <Ammler> he? it is not up to the newgrf?
18:16:51  <planetmaker> he can't. As a track has only one cost. Unless you want that converting back to cheaper never costs
18:17:08  <planetmaker> a newgrf sets a price for each track. That's all
18:17:26  <Ammler> and how is selling calculated?
18:17:38  <planetmaker> dunno currently
18:18:34  <Ammler> maybe that is based on the global base costs?
18:18:43  <Ammler> then it is obvious that you can abuse it
18:34:45  <Brot6> Nutracks - Revision 166:63895da3ff58: Fix: Bug with the medium speed std rails (DJNekkid) @
18:34:45  <Brot6> Nutracks - Revision 167:48b745dbb916: Added tag 1.0.0-Beta4 for changeset 63895da3ff58 (DJNekkid) @
18:35:29  <Brot6> nutracks: update from 1.0.0-Beta3 to 1.0.0-Beta4 done -
18:35:38  <planetmaker> :-)
18:39:00  <DJ_Nekkid> Ammler: that is wierd...
18:42:26  <Ammler> that?
18:49:47  <DJ_Nekkid> <Ammler> DJ_Nekkid: the only issues I find with that network card are related to multiboot with windows
18:49:58  <DJ_Nekkid> (i were busy fixing the nutracks bug=
18:49:59  <DJ_Nekkid> )
18:56:49  <DJ_Nekkid> and, it actually seems like the problem is persisting
19:02:58  <Brot6> 32bpp-ez-patches: update from r21908 to r21917 done -
19:05:01  <DanMacK> DJ_Nekkid, are you using Pikka's templates for the 2CC set?
19:05:21  <DJ_Nekkid> DanMacK, no, im useing the DJNekkid-templates :D
19:05:35  <DJ_Nekkid> the pikka ones are too low for a lot of drawers taste
19:05:36  <DanMacK> They on the Devsite?
19:05:46  <DJ_Nekkid> wanna draw somethign? :P
19:05:54  <Brot6> clientpatches: update from r21488 to r21488 done -
19:06:02  <DJ_Nekkid> basicly just download an engine (or EMU) and clear the content :)
19:06:23  * DanMacK wants to revise something actually :P
19:07:00  <DanMacK> I'm planning to do a loco for a project I'm working on, so I'm saying if you want to use it...
19:07:08  <Brot6> serverpatches: compile of r21917 still failed (#2080) -
19:08:26  <DJ_Nekkid> do you have mercurial installed?
19:08:45  <DanMacK> I do not
19:08:58  <Ammler> hehe, I would just give hg.o.o links :-)
19:09:22  <Ammler> like
19:09:28  <Ammler> oh, pcx not png
19:10:24  <DanMacK> ewww, PCX
19:11:04  <DJ_Nekkid>
19:11:19  <DJ_Nekkid> download that one and just blank the blue areas :)
19:15:15  <Ammler> I really should add raw mode
19:16:04  <DJ_Nekkid> i am actually this far from going back to centos
19:16:15  <DJ_Nekkid> but i liked suse!
19:16:17  <DJ_Nekkid> arg!
19:16:34  <DJ_Nekkid> i wonder if i have any NIC's laying around somewhere
19:20:48  <DJ_Nekkid> 9nah
19:20:50  <DJ_Nekkid> bleh
19:20:59  <Ammler> there should be CentOS6
19:21:05  <Ammler> as there is RHEL6
19:21:10  <Ammler> soon*
19:21:46  <Ammler> but if Fedora doesn't work, I wuold guite much guess, centos 6 won't either
19:21:57  <DJ_Nekkid> exactly
19:22:40  <Ammler> well, with Evergreen, openSUSE 11.1 is for sure better than centos :-)
19:23:12  <Ammler> one option left is ubuntu, but it is most likely a kernel issue
19:23:46  <DJ_Nekkid> yup
19:23:51  <DJ_Nekkid> seems so
19:24:18  <DJ_Nekkid> i'll go to a store tomorrow and buy a new NIC
19:25:15  <DJ_Nekkid> see if i can find a 3com, cisco/linksys
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19:43:40  <DJ_Nekkid> it seems like the zupper up did get a 'new' driver :)
19:48:19  <DJ_Nekkid> and quite frankly, i think i would like a hard-raid...
19:54:11  <Ammler> I think, you don't need raid for a "work station"
19:55:39  <DJ_Nekkid> its ment for backup
19:55:44  <DJ_Nekkid> raid1
20:04:34  <DJ_Nekkid> hmm, perhaps i should actually play a game for once :D
20:05:31  <andythenorth> over-rated :P
20:06:14  <DJ_Nekkid> could call it bugtesting the 2cc set then :P
20:06:27  <DJ_Nekkid> as well as that chillcore patchpack :P
20:09:03  <Ammler> DJ_Nekkid: you could fix the driver/booting/kernel issue :-P
20:09:37  <DJ_Nekkid> or i could just get a NIC tomorrow :)
20:12:21  <DJ_Nekkid> got a friend in the IT-department in the ...
20:12:38  <DJ_Nekkid> he knew they had a bunch laying around...
20:13:14  <DJ_Nekkid> city hall!
20:13:31  <DJ_Nekkid> each city is driven by the guys who work in city hall...
20:13:37  <DJ_Nekkid> but what do they run?
20:14:26  <DJ_Nekkid> and what organization is the mayor the cheaf of?
20:19:24  <Brot6> FISH - Bug #2204 (New): Log raft is drawn incorrectly under some cases (Terkhen) @
20:21:13  <andythenorth> on an island
20:21:20  <andythenorth> every town must have a mayor
20:21:35  <andythenorth> and each mayor lives not in his town, but in mayortown
20:21:42  <andythenorth> so where does the mayor of mayortown live?
20:22:29  <Rubidium> the mayor of mayor town is female
20:22:36  <dihedral> \o/ have an invokable command :-)
20:24:09  <DJ_Nekkid> if i add river-grf (from MB)
20:24:14  <DJ_Nekkid> do the game produce rivers?
20:24:18  <DJ_Nekkid> on a random map
20:24:18  <DJ_Nekkid> ?
20:25:15  <dihedral> not as far as i know
20:27:52  <andythenorth> no
20:32:13  <DJ_Nekkid> there is a bunch of grfs that i really like, that heavent been updated in AGES
20:32:15  <planetmaker> no(t yet). Unfortunately. They're a bitch
20:32:32  <DJ_Nekkid> im almost concidering to do it myself. HeroTrams for example
20:32:44  <DJ_Nekkid> and modern trams if i remember corectly
20:36:28  <DJ_Nekkid> hmm, that would be a nice feature...
20:38:43  <Brot6> Polish PKP Set - Revision 11:71eb59da101c: Added: English translation (BarthVader) @
20:39:54  <DJ_Nekkid> a text-ID-thingy where one could put up an vehicle ID, and it would give out the name of the vehicle
20:42:17  *** DanM has joined #openttdcoop.devzone
20:42:32  <DJ_Nekkid> stringcode!
20:45:36  *** DanMacK has quit IRC
20:47:45  *** DanM is now known as DanMacK
20:48:11  <Brot6> HEQS "Heavy Equipment" Set - Revision 572:71a961f4a11a: Change: corrected capacity in readme.pdf (andythenorth) @
20:59:00  <DJ_Nekkid> andythenorth: did you test wagons with 'type' 82 and callback 1D ?
21:00:36  <Brot6> Grapes - Revision 73:521421e5d79e: Cleanup: remove unneeded import (dih) @
21:00:36  <Brot6> Grapes - Revision 74:6a079fe2c18b: Change: force lower case names for commands (dih) @
21:00:36  <Brot6> Grapes - Revision 75:ad1612d9f91f: Add: Proxy Methods to get hold of command classes (dih) @
21:00:36  <Brot6> Grapes - Revision 76:a97c9c863fde: Cleanup: combine imports (dih) @
21:00:38  <Brot6> Grapes - Revision 77:047a07b2d3ef: Change: CommandChar for OpenTTD will be defined in the OpenTTD... (dih) @
21:00:42  <Brot6> Grapes - Revision 78:4e81dcfb791b: Change: remove OpenTTD related implementations of the messagin... (dih) @
21:00:49  <andythenorth> DJ_Nekkid: no
21:01:06  <andythenorth> frosch123 seemed quite certain it wouldn't work
21:02:09  <frosch123> i did not understand what DJ_Nekkid was about at all :)
21:05:41  <DJ_Nekkid> frosch123:
21:05:43  <DJ_Nekkid> a stringcode
21:05:50  <DJ_Nekkid> for useage in action4s
21:08:12  <frosch123> wasn't the topic about cb 1d?
21:08:45  <DJ_Nekkid> where the Action4 would be something a'la: -1 * 0  04 00 LANG_ID 01 STRING_ID "This engine replaces: " <new stringcode> <what feature to read> <id of what to read"
21:08:59  <DJ_Nekkid> and then the purchaselist would be something al'a:
21:09:08  <DJ_Nekkid> This engine replaces: NS1000
21:09:10  <dihedral> hosting dedicated servers is way to easy
21:09:17  <dihedral> Rubidium, we should make that task a lot harder :-D
21:09:17  *** KenjiE20 has quit IRC
21:09:28  <DJ_Nekkid> but if the topic was callback 1D
21:10:33  *** KenjiE20 has joined #openttdcoop.devzone
21:11:16  <DJ_Nekkid> if a wagon use VarAction2 with type 82 (i.e. its 'related vehice'(i.e. the engine)) and it sets some callback 1Ds with that
21:11:34  <DJ_Nekkid> would it be possible to dis/allow with that?
21:11:38  <DJ_Nekkid> or is it engine only.
21:12:00  <DJ_Nekkid> i.e. if an engine got pax or mail engines, its now allowed to attach coal hoppers
21:13:40  <frosch123> with andys new callback you can access the engines variables and check the consist whether it carries pax or mail
21:14:12  <frosch123> but that will only prevent the wagon being attached to a pax/mail train, but not pax/mail being attached to it afterwards
21:15:19  <frosch123> about the stringcode: what is the point of that? you would only be able to access the names of your own set, wouldn't you?
21:15:24  <Ammler> dihedral: it is still not possible to recover a crashed server or restart :-P
21:15:27  <Rubidium> dihedral: and what were you thinking of doing?
21:15:52  <Rubidium> not providing actual binaries is quite a bit of a hurdle already
21:16:02  <DJ_Nekkid> frosch123: yes i would
21:17:07  <DJ_Nekkid> the point is, i can provide the users with some info about what a certain engine replace, or what replaces it. I _could_ write it in directly, but what if the name changes?
21:17:36  <andythenorth> do it with CPP before compiling the grf?
21:18:48  <DJ_Nekkid> hmm, yea, actually :)
21:22:40  <DJ_Nekkid> but im not sure if i have enough text ID's for that
21:23:57  <andythenorth> if you do it with CPP it shouldn't use any extra text IDs...
21:24:02  <andythenorth> FIRS does it *a lot*
21:24:10  <andythenorth> anyways
21:24:18  <andythenorth> shall we start recode of US Set?
21:24:49  <DJ_Nekkid> hehe
21:24:54  * DanMacK thinks oberhumer is planning that after NARVS :P
21:24:58  <DJ_Nekkid> did you read that slight flamewar? :P
21:25:51  <DanMacK> yeah, that was kinda silly... lol
21:26:36  <andythenorth> nml or nfo?
21:26:55  <DJ_Nekkid> i dont know NML
21:27:01  <DJ_Nekkid> so in that case are you on your own
21:27:14  <andythenorth> I don't know nml either
21:27:18  <andythenorth> but planetmaker and Terkhen do
21:27:47  <planetmaker> andythenorth: DanMacK that'd be awesome :-)
21:28:00  <planetmaker> And yes, I shall be of assistance to him, if he takes charge of it
21:28:20  <Terkhen> :)
21:29:01  <planetmaker> and I'm serious that I think a re-implementation in NML is quicker than hacking away on the decoded nfo
21:29:15  <planetmaker> at least in the mid- to long-term
21:29:17  <andythenorth> makes sense
21:29:24  <andythenorth> nfo would be faster for me in the short term :P
21:29:28  <planetmaker> and given that the people who continue haven't written it obviously in the first place
21:29:35  <andythenorth> I like the US Set
21:29:53  <andythenorth> I want matched consists of BN units + freight cars
21:29:56  <planetmaker> andythenorth: also for me. It's an extensive set. But it seems it needs an overhaul, so a re-write might be the better option here
21:30:01  <andythenorth> yes
21:30:05  <andythenorth> it needs recoding from scratch
21:32:31  <DJ_Nekkid> fixed or variable consists?
21:32:39  <DJ_Nekkid> (mus)
21:33:12  <planetmaker> both, I guess. But yes, andythenorth, the USSet is one with very nice graphics and also otherwise quite nice
21:33:13  <DJ_Nekkid> and why does it really need recodeing?
21:33:29  <planetmaker> If oberhumer really takes charge, I'm optimistic. He seems to become a good coder, I guess
21:33:31  <DJ_Nekkid> callback 36 on mus?
21:33:37  <andythenorth> "new is always better" :D
21:33:38  <planetmaker> He's already re-written NARVS mostly in NML
21:33:57  <planetmaker> and it works :-)
21:33:59  <andythenorth> the first thing any developer does when picking up a project is throw away all previously written code :)
21:34:06  <planetmaker> haha :-)
21:34:11  <andythenorth> assuming that it must be bad, because it's full of weird corner cases
21:34:31  <planetmaker> well. Yes and no. The code IS full of weired corner cases.
21:34:37  <andythenorth> he then spends the next year discovering edge cases, until his new clean code is nearly as good as the tried and tested old code :P
21:34:41  <planetmaker> But one always ends up with other weirednesses ;-)
21:34:51  <planetmaker> ha! :-)
21:35:03  <planetmaker> I try to avoid that with the TTRS 3.10 ;-)
21:37:59  <frosch123> surprisingly there was no gpl nerd quoting the gpl in that thread :)
21:38:20  <planetmaker> I couldn't be bothered :-P
21:38:20  <andythenorth> umm
21:38:24  * andythenorth did
21:39:45  <frosch123> wasn't there something like "source is the preferred form for editing", which is purely defined by the author making the initial release?
21:41:05  <Rubidium> only if it's decoded by the author ofcourse, but if the author needs to decode it it's not the source
21:41:12  * DanMacK thinks the USSet needs a revamp because it's very disjointed
21:41:21  <frosch123> btw. i remember that dalestan said, he uses grfcodec and nforenum all the time to reindent his code by compiling and decompiling :)
21:41:40  <Rubidium> ergo: the author must have had grf as preferred form for editing ;)
21:43:22  <Rubidium> which arguably isn't human readable
21:43:43  <Rubidium> so by deduction it can't be GPLed
21:51:01  <planetmaker> :-D
21:58:57  <Brot6> 2cc train set - Bug #2205 (New): EP2 bipolar (DJNekkid) @
22:05:37  <dihedral> Rubidium> dihedral: and what were you thinking of doing? <- require people to compile dedicated only builds in order to run them :-P
22:05:51  *** frosch123 has quit IRC
22:08:56  <dihedral> but i was not being serious
22:09:17  <dihedral> it was more of a response to people claiming the hardest part was setting up the forwarding :-P
22:09:28  <dihedral> (forwarding of ports)
22:10:26  <andythenorth> night
22:10:27  *** andythenorth has left #openttdcoop.devzone
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23:35:45  <Brot6> 2cc train set - Bug #2205: EP2 bipolar (EmperorJake) @
23:37:21  *** thgergo has joined #openttdcoop.devzone
23:37:56  <Brot6> 2cc train set - Bug #2205: EP2 bipolar (DJNekkid) @

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