Log for #openttdcoop.devzone on 29th January 2011:
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01:17:48  *** KenjiE20 has quit IRC
02:14:05  <Brot6> 2cc train set - Feature #2212: ET171 (EmperorJake) @
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04:02:14  <Brot6> 2cc train set - Feature #2214 (New): ETR 300 "Settebello" (EmperorJake) @
05:33:18  <Brot6> Bundles Update: g341b55c1 2011-01-29 cargodist   (
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07:14:17  <Brot6> 2cc train set - Bug #2209: Non-2cc colored pixels in sprites (evil yellow and other colors) (EmperorJake) @
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07:54:32  <Brot6> 2cc train set - Bug #2209: Non-2cc colored pixels in sprites (evil yellow and other colors) (Purno) @
08:05:56  <Brot6> FISH - Revision 542:958c16877c86: Feature: set vehicle window texts for Ferries, Coasters, Trader... (andythenorth) @
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09:27:01  <Brot6> 2cc train set - Bug #2215 (New): CR Class 439: Animated pixels in / view (Purno) @
09:32:23  <Brot6> FISH - Revision 543:b5360fac69a2: Feature: set vehicle window texts for Hovercraft, Log Raft, Isl... (andythenorth) @
09:42:01  <Brot6> FISH - Revision 544:c04e63566c54: Feature: vehicle window texts for Utility Vessel (andythenorth) @
09:47:29  <Brot6> 2cc train set - Feature #2212: ET171 (Voyager1) @
09:48:00  <Brot6> 2cc train set - Feature #2212: ET171 (Voyager1) @
09:52:57  <Brot6> 2cc train set - Feature #2212: ET171 (EmperorJake) @
09:53:25  <Brot6> FISH - Revision 545:91c1857c4bbe: Feature: set names for Vehicle Ferries (andythenorth) @
09:53:25  <Brot6> FISH - Revision 546:a03f4c6bb3e3: Change: convert buy menu offset to a define for ease of changin... (andythenorth) @
09:56:22  <Brot6> FISH - Revision 547:d417aa5b027f: Feature: set name for Utility Vessel (andythenorth) @
10:06:37  <Brot6> 2cc train set - Feature #2212: ET171 (Purno) @
10:32:19  <Brot6> 2cc train set - Bug #2216 (New): Naming of engines (EmperorJake) @
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10:35:27  <Brot6> 2cc train set - Feature #2125: Shinkansen Series 700 redrawn (EmperorJake) @
10:36:57  <Brot6> 2cc train set - Bug #2215: CR Class 439: Animated pixels in / view (EmperorJake) @
10:38:20  <dihedral> good morning :-)
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11:51:13  <Brot6> 2cc train set - Bug #2215: CR Class 439: Animated pixels in / view (Voyager1) @
11:54:36  <Brot6> 2cc train set - Bug #2215: CR Class 439: Animated pixels in / view (Voyager1) @
11:56:15  <Brot6> 2cc train set - Feature #2125: Shinkansen Series 700 redrawn (Voyager1) @
12:01:39  <Brot6> 2cc train set - Bug #2216: Naming of engines (Voyager1) @
12:29:12  <Brot6> 2cc train set - Bug #2216: Naming of engines (EmperorJake) @
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12:56:13  <Brot6> 2cc train set - Bug #2216: Naming of engines (DJNekkid) @
13:00:04  <Brot6> 2cc train set - Bug #2216: Naming of engines (Voyager1) @
13:01:23  <Brot6> 2cc train set - Feature #2217 (New): C8 (Voyager1) @
13:07:19  <Brot6> 2cc train set - Feature #2218 (New): When should we release 2.0? (DJNekkid) @
13:15:05  <Brot6> 2cc train set - Revision 728:51ca97022817: Change: Started to update the train names. Part of #2216 (DJNekkid) @
13:23:30  <DJNekkid> thats nice, chrome even on linux now :D
13:24:10  <Ammler> chrome survived around 10 mins on my pc
13:25:13  <Ammler> I see no advantage to Firefox
13:25:29  <Ammler> just the lack of good plugins
13:26:21  <DJNekkid> atleast on windows i find it 'less noisy'
13:26:45  <Ammler> then you used too many plugins with firefox :-)
13:27:51  <DJNekkid> just about none
13:28:30  <Brot6> 2cc train set - Support #2211: Feedback from the community / playerbase (DJNekkid) @
13:30:26  <Brot6> 2cc train set - Bug #2205: EP2 bipolar (DJNekkid) @
13:30:26  <Brot6> 2cc train set - Feature #2218: When should we release 2.0? (planetmaker) @
13:31:27  <Brot6> 2cc train set - Feature #2218: When should we release 2.0? (planetmaker) @
13:31:27  <Brot6> FISH - Revision 548:e4f57c1ec329: Feature: info strings and names for Hydrofoil, Tow Boat, Paddle... (andythenorth) @
13:32:39  <Brot6> FISH - Revision 549:454ffe81b429: Change: hide unfinished ships (andythenorth) @
13:39:42  <Brot6> 2cc train set - Feature #2214 (Feedback): ETR 300 "Settebello" (DJNekkid) @
13:49:18  <Brot6> 2cc train set - Feature #2207: Regio Shuttle (DJNekkid) @
13:49:18  <Brot6> 2cc train set - Feature #2207 (Feedback): Regio Shuttle (DJNekkid) @
13:50:52  <Brot6> 2cc train set - Feature #2214: ETR 300 "Settebello" (EmperorJake) @
13:55:02  <planetmaker> btw, andythenorth: the "correct" and backward compatible way to hide a vehicle is to set climate availability to 0 instead of removing it from the grf
13:55:10  <planetmaker> you now broke savegame compatibility in FISH
13:55:21  <andythenorth> true
13:55:47  <andythenorth> nightly build :P
13:55:51  <andythenorth> use at own risk :P
13:56:09  <planetmaker> well. Did you change the min_compatible_version? :-)
13:56:14  <planetmaker> answer: no :-P
13:56:47  <andythenorth> you want me to do it right? :P
13:56:47  <planetmaker> but such change should always include it ;-)
13:56:54  <planetmaker> of course :-P
13:57:00  <andythenorth> foo
13:57:05  <planetmaker> but I'd just add them again with no climate ;-)
13:57:07  <planetmaker> less hassle
13:57:28  <andythenorth> it's a coding habit I've got into - enable / disable the includes
13:57:33  <andythenorth> might be wrong but...
13:57:37  <planetmaker> (not that I do have a savegame which uses them currently)
13:58:09  <planetmaker> just telling. But removing vehicles w/o marking the grf as incompatible IS wrong. And causes crashes in case of doubt; as such it's very bad practise
13:58:40  <andythenorth> you want me to fix it now?
13:58:47  <andythenorth> I don't need to win the argument :D
13:59:14  <planetmaker> your choice ;-) Just mind that changing the min_compatible_version will probably let you NOT update your current test games
13:59:29  <planetmaker> As such: add them again but hide their climate might be better.
14:00:32  <planetmaker> Hm... nice idea for debug parameter: "hide unused / unfinished vehicles"
14:00:40  <planetmaker> or rather show
14:01:06  <planetmaker> makes it easy to add (half finished) vehicles, but not bring them into the game unless for those who want to test it
14:01:20  <planetmaker> I shall remember that for my newgrfs ;-)
14:01:28  <Brot6> FISH - Revision 550:fcf2ce29c3df: Change: re-include unfinished vehicles, but climate masked out (andythenorth) @
14:01:32  <andythenorth> ^
14:01:36  <planetmaker> :-)
14:01:38  * planetmaker is happy
14:01:39  <andythenorth> now Ammler will tell me I broke the build :P
14:01:44  <planetmaker> why?
14:01:59  <dihedral> Rubidium, the admin network can send server messages, these are shown to the client with the star prefix e.g. *** blah
14:02:47  * planetmaker tries to build fish
14:03:01  <dihedral> as these messages are not easily held apart from normal server messages (*** blah joined the game) would it make sense to turn those messages into a single star prefix?
14:03:02  * planetmaker got many white pixels, but it built fine
14:03:06  <andythenorth> planetmaker: they're unfinished, so they contain errors :P
14:03:26  <planetmaker> of course :-)
14:10:47  <Brot6> FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Revision 1632:197099ab30db: Change: slightly reduce Coal Mine ini... (andythenorth) @
14:12:49  <Rubidium> dihedral: server messages are server message, ain't they?
14:13:02  <Rubidium> so if they don't want to send server messages they should just "normally" chat
14:18:18  <Brot6> 2cc train set - Feature #2218: When should we release 2.0? (Purno) @
14:18:56  <dihedral>  how about another method of chat that admin connections can chose to use?
14:19:09  <dihedral> else it does not matter :-P
14:20:44  <Brot6> 2cc train set - Bug #2205: EP2 bipolar (Purno) @
14:23:07  <Brot6> 2cc train set - Feature #2207: Regio Shuttle (Purno) @
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14:36:20  <Brot6> 2cc train set - Feature #2207: Regio Shuttle (EmperorJake) @
14:45:00  <Brot6> FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Revision 1633:5a34dee86aec: Feature: rebalanced default cargo pay... (andythenorth) @
14:47:23  <Brot6> FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Code Review #1981: Starting profit? (andythenorth) @
14:47:50  <Brot6> FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Code Review #1981: Starting profit? (andythenorth) @
14:50:38  <Brot6> FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Revision 1634:0fd8998d3b6f: Feature: adjusted price balance of wo... (andythenorth) @
14:50:38  <Brot6> FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Code Review #1981 (Feedback): Starting profit? (andythenorth) @
14:51:21  <V453000> well, release the FIRS so we can test it :P
14:53:11  <andythenorth> nightly?
14:53:18  <andythenorth> I could go for a release
14:53:25  <andythenorth> let me see what else needs done...
14:53:47  <V453000> just something to bananas :) otherwise we cannot use it on our stable ... or well, we could :) just provide "something" "somewhere" :)
14:54:01  <andythenorth> might as well go for 0.6 soon
14:54:09  <andythenorth> won't be save game safe
14:54:29  <V453000> we will no need that now I suppose :)
14:58:12  <Brot6> FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Feature #1356 (Closed): Fishing Grounds production may need thought (andythenorth) @
15:00:49  <Brot6> FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Revision 1635:584935b9632c: Fix: Goods had non-standard classes d... (andythenorth) @
15:00:49  <Brot6> FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Bug #1659 (Closed): FIRS redefines cargo classes of goods. (andythenorth) @
15:03:37  <Brot6> FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Revision 1636:ad6df55bcf6d: Change: update classes of Wool to mat... (andythenorth) @
15:03:37  <Brot6> FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Feature #1882 (Closed): Change to classes for WOOL (andythenorth) @
15:03:44  <andythenorth> planetmaker: could we look at
15:03:45  <andythenorth> ?
15:05:30  <planetmaker> hm, yes
15:06:05  <planetmaker> I avoided like cholera to download those luke* grfs so far. I guess I need to do that for testing purposes
15:06:33  <planetmaker> he also seems to not know about updating newgrfs on the same accout, so they show multiple times, every version has its ugly own entry :-(
15:08:14  <planetmaker> I just wrote NML r1139 - so it fits well to what I was doing ;-)
15:08:27  <Brot6> NewGRF Meta Language - Revision 1139:8e51b3a27a86: Doc: Short section on NewGRF compatibility and... (planetmaker) @
15:10:32  <planetmaker> DJNekkid: why did you add NuTracks under a new account / entry to Bananas? It shows in my bananas list twice now. Once r112 and now the beta5... :-(
15:10:38  <planetmaker> shame shame...
15:18:51  <Brot6> FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Bug #2219 (New): Fertilizer plant does 8t production per 8t deliv... (andythenorth) @
15:19:02  <DJNekkid> planetmaker: but i did not!
15:19:44  <planetmaker> hm. Does it show twice as it's incompatible? Might be... then I withdraw my comment and beg your pardon.
15:20:28  <DJNekkid> i did update
15:21:12  <DJNekkid> the 2set however, is there twice, but i have no idea why :)
15:21:54  <DJNekkid> the Beta-series of the NuTracks is set to be incompatible with the r-series :)
15:21:59  <DJNekkid> in the action14
15:22:08  <DJNekkid> with min version 21866
15:22:17  <DJNekkid> (openttd r21866)
15:22:23  <DJNekkid> i.e. a few revs before beta4
15:22:38  <DJNekkid> and after fs 4393/94
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15:31:23  <planetmaker> @op
15:31:23  *** Webster sets mode: +o planetmaker
15:31:25  <planetmaker> @op
15:31:27  *** planetmaker sets mode: +b *!*@
15:31:30  <planetmaker> @deop
15:31:30  *** Webster sets mode: -o planetmaker
15:32:20  <dihedral> banning a single ip? :-P
15:32:41  <V453000> spammer
15:33:18  <dihedral> setting the channel to +r or +i for a short amount of time should suffice though, should it no?
15:33:22  <dihedral> *not
15:36:14  <planetmaker> why?
15:36:37  <planetmaker> this way nothing changes but the spam IP is banned...
15:36:46  <planetmaker> it's not like there's a flood
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15:37:04  <DanMacK> Hey all
15:39:45  <dihedral> i was just expecting a lot more bans after the /27 network being mentioned :-P
15:50:15  <Brot6> 2cc train set - Feature #2207: Regio Shuttle (Purno) @
15:51:09  <Brot6> FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Revision 1637:21d2592b08e7: Feature: Dredging Site included again (andythenorth) @
15:51:54  <Brot6> 2cc train set - Feature #2207: Regio Shuttle (DJNekkid) @
15:52:00  <planetmaker> pull, andythenorth
15:52:31  <andythenorth> done
15:52:53  <planetmaker> 5 grfIDs declared incompatible
15:53:08  <Brot6> FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Revision 1638:a72d26b2152e: Add: Citybuilder NewGRFs are incompat... (planetmaker) @
15:53:13  <andythenorth> thanks
15:53:16  <andythenorth> ticket closed?
15:53:45  <planetmaker> no :-P
15:53:47  <planetmaker> but can
15:54:16  <Brot6> FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Feature #469 (Closed): Dredging Site (andythenorth) @
15:55:21  <Brot6> FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Bug #2050 (Closed): compatibility check (andythenorth) @
16:07:58  <Brot6> Grapes - Revision 79:bcf04f71c3be: Change: place the interfaces into a more appropriately named p... (dih) @
16:35:55  <andythenorth> planetmaker: this one is a puzzle to fix
16:35:56  <andythenorth>
16:36:05  <andythenorth> I need a climate dependent text
16:36:13  <andythenorth> or to use the cargo string in the define somehow
16:39:15  <Brot6> 2cc train set - Feature #2217: C8 (Voyager1) @
16:41:00  <Brot6> 2cc train set - Feature #2207: Regio Shuttle (Voyager1) @
16:41:46  <andythenorth>
16:41:47  <Webster> Title: Condarrell - IMO 5083605 - - Ship Photos and Ship Tracker (at
16:41:48  <andythenorth> oops
16:44:35  <planetmaker> <-- dihedral don't you want to fix some grammar there? :-)
16:44:36  <Webster> Title: Transport Tycoon Forums View topic - Drive vehicles yourself (at
16:45:00  <planetmaker> s/to/too/ s/plane/plan/
16:45:35  <Brot6> 2cc train set - Feature #2218: When should we release 2.0? (Voyager1) @
16:46:26  <Brot6> 2cc train set - Feature #2218: When should we release 2.0? (Voyager1) @
16:46:57  <Brot6> 2cc train set - Feature #2207: Regio Shuttle (DJNekkid) @
16:48:54  <Brot6> 2cc train set - Feature #2218: When should we release 2.0? (planetmaker) @
16:48:54  <Brot6> 2cc train set - Support #2211: Feedback from the community / playerbase (Voyager1) @
16:49:59  <Brot6> 2cc train set - Feature #2218: When should we release 2.0? (Ammler) @
16:49:59  <Brot6> 2cc train set - Feature #2218: When should we release 2.0? (DJNekkid) @
16:50:39  <andythenorth> there is a patch for driving isn't there?
16:50:47  <andythenorth> someone showed it
16:50:53  <andythenorth> cursor key control of RVs
16:54:21  <dihedral> hehe - thanks planetmaker
16:55:06  <Lakie> Surely it'd only crash if the tileids changed are driveable, planetmaker?
16:55:17  <planetmaker> Lakie: yes
16:55:21  <Brot6> 2cc train set - Support #2211: Feedback from the community / playerbase (planetmaker) @
16:55:24  <planetmaker> drive -> nondrive actually
16:55:30  <planetmaker> but the reverse can also be bad
16:55:34  <Lakie> Well, thats what I meant
16:55:53  <Lakie> The reverse leads to 'glitches' but isn't game breaking
16:56:24  <planetmaker> but I've very very bad experience with that with ISR. It literally let my game crash countless times when IDs were re-shuffled there between 0.6 and 0.8... thus I'm very very wary about that
16:56:59  <planetmaker> especially as changing the IDs actually is not needed and "just" code beautification
16:57:12  <planetmaker> and serves no other point that I'm aware of
16:58:40  <planetmaker> actually I wrote today just this, Lakie :
17:00:08  <planetmaker> I thought about adding it to the NewGRF wiki, too. But I didn't find a place where I could link that properly
17:00:47  <Hirundo> DJNekkid: What version of 2cc/nutracks should I use?
17:01:30  <Lakie> I see
17:01:48  <Lakie> Well, I used ISR on and off, but generally never saw a crash as such
17:01:55  <DJNekkid> Hirundo: 727
17:01:58  <DJNekkid> :D
17:02:08  <Lakie> Not that my saved games live long on TTDPatch before bing nuked by a bug...
17:02:15  <planetmaker> Lakie: only when you load a game with ISR <= 0.6 and then provide only 0.8 when loading the game
17:02:29  <DJNekkid> if you feel like it, download the chillcore patchpack r21900
17:02:34  <DJNekkid> and join me :D
17:02:43  <planetmaker> e.g. try to load any older PublicServerGame with old ISRs and have only 0.8 avaialble
17:02:56  <Lakie> Well, yes
17:03:06  <Lakie> But multiplayer demands same version grfd
17:03:09  <Lakie> grfs*
17:03:13  <Lakie> For obvious reasons
17:03:23  <planetmaker> and that's what I argue about. Otherwise compatibility is anyway pointless. It's only for loading savegames
17:03:29  <planetmaker> yes, of course
17:03:57  <planetmaker> but we keep our savegames :-)
17:04:35  <Hirundo> DJNekkid: chillcore's PP contains too many and too low-quality patches for my taste
17:05:02  <planetmaker> it's indeed not that problematic anymore when newgrfs are found on bananas. One can always get the correct one from there, even upon loading the savegame. But... having it fail to load due to incompatiblity when they are incompatible is what that actually is for :-)
17:06:23  <DJNekkid> Hirundo: that might be :D i just like 3 of the patches that is in there...
17:06:27  <DJNekkid> or it might be 4
17:06:38  <DJNekkid> copy/pate, cargodist and autoseparate
17:06:55  <DJNekkid> and possibly IS, but im alone sofar :D
17:08:47  <Brot6> nml: update from r1138 to r1139 done -
17:09:43  <Lakie> Well, I understand the problem, however, it is ultimately the newgrf sets authors job, becides ISR was around long before Action14s. :)
17:10:23  <Hirundo> DJNekkid: I'm sticking with cargodist + some timetable stuff that doesn't break savegames
17:10:24  <planetmaker> Lakie: sure. But they would have needed to change the GRFID. Also TTDPatch will crash for that update
17:10:42  <Lakie> I don't remember if it crashes TTDPatch
17:10:57  <Lakie> From memory, I don't think it did but it did cause errors in the saved games
17:11:10  <planetmaker> a train on a non-track tile? Well, I can't tell for sure, but I'd wonder
17:11:21  <planetmaker> can't be healthy :-)
17:11:25  <Lakie> Aye
17:12:52  <frosch123> does it actually crash ottd when assertions are disabled?
17:13:51  <Hirundo> DJNekkid: Small nitpick: then->than in action14 description of wagon speed parameter
17:14:03  <planetmaker> I did not test that, frosch123
17:14:07  <Lakie> Anyway, don't blast Dante123 too much, its only through their kindness that we get such grfs. :)
17:14:22  <planetmaker> well. Yes. And he's a good fellow.
17:14:41  <Ammler> Hirundo: is cargodist savegame compatible during trunk bumps?
17:14:53  <planetmaker> But he has (so far) not much plan, I fear, with the coding details, though he's already quite far.
17:15:05  <planetmaker> But he doesn't yet know version control systems either ;-)
17:15:06  <Hirundo> Ammler: not sure
17:15:21  <planetmaker> So I have hope one can educate him in the right directions ;-)
17:15:29  <Lakie> Thats possible, in fairness I don't think him or RL Conray fully understands nfo or nml and how they work
17:15:58  <planetmaker> yep, that's what I mean :-)
17:16:20  <planetmaker> I mean... "fully understand" is stretchable, too. I'd be careful to claim that myself ;-)
17:17:47  <Hirundo> Ammler: After some inspection I don't think so, although I might be able to hack such support into it if some serious bug makes upgrading necessary during a gam
17:18:09  <DJNekkid> Hirundo: mind fixing it? im currenly not near my dev enviroment :)
17:18:25  <Brot6> 2cctrainset: update from r727 to r728 done (6 errors) -
17:18:38  <Ammler> Hirundo: you should be as it is quite accoding to MiniIN :-)
17:18:40  <Lakie> Well, you atleast understand how nfo and mnml is structured and how to use the wikis
17:18:44  <Ammler> easy*
17:18:58  <DJNekkid> Hirundo: it should be in strings/7F_english.pnfo iirc
17:19:00  <Brot6> firs: update from r1631 to r1638 done -
17:19:46  <Hirundo> I'll give it a go
17:19:46  <Brot6> fish: update from r535 to r550 done (14 errors) -
17:20:00  <Brot6> Following repos didn't need a nightlies update: 32bpp-extra (r39), ai-admiralai (r75), ai-aroai (r11), ailib-common (r21), ailib-direction (r17), ailib-list (r32), ailib-string (r29), ailib-tile (r16), airportsplus (r70), basecosts (r22), belarusiantowns (r8), bros (r45), comic-houses (r71), frenchtowns (r6), grfcodec (r821), heqs (r572), indonesiantowns (r41), manindu (r6), metrotrackset (r56), narvs (r5), newgrf_makefile (r254), nml
17:20:00  <Brot6> (r1139), nutracks (r171), ogfx-industries (r3), ogfx-landscape (r22), ogfx-rv (r78), ogfx-trains (r201), ogfx-trees (r42), opengfx (r593), openmsx (r97), opensfx (r97), smts (r19), snowlinemod (r45), spanishtowns (r10), swedishrails (r193), swisstowns (r22), transrapidtrackset (r15), ttdviewer (r26), ttrs (r24), worldairlinersset (r671)
17:20:55  <DJNekkid> awsome :) If there are any other errors, feel free :D
17:21:49  <Lakie> Heh
17:24:02  <Brot6> Following repos rebuilds successful without any difference to earlier nightlies builds: airportsplus (Diffsize: 1), belarusiantowns, frenchtowns, indonesiantowns (1 errors), manindu (Diffsize: 1), narvs, newgrf_makefile, ogfx-industries, ogfx-landscape, ogfx-rv (1 errors) (Diffsize: 2), ogfx-trains (Diffsize: 1), spanishtowns, swedishrails (Diffsize: 6), swisstowns
17:24:03  <Hirundo> DJNekkid: Done
17:24:17  <Brot6> 2cc train set - Revision 729:ad784df389d4: Fix: Some spelling errors. (Hirundo) @
17:26:15  <DJNekkid> thanks alot :D
17:28:24  <andythenorth> dante123 should use devzone :)
17:28:29  <andythenorth> and CPP
17:28:39  <planetmaker> yeah
17:28:39  <andythenorth> IDs are a big worry when you're doing a set without defines
17:28:46  <andythenorth> and not at all when defines are available
17:28:48  <planetmaker> :-)
17:28:58  <Lakie> Depends how one codes really
17:29:10  <Lakie> I could get by without defines but do like includes
17:29:23  * planetmaker likes both ;-)
17:29:40  * Lakie ponders if gcc will convrt things like 4*8 into 32 during preprocessing
17:30:11  <DJNekkid> if CPP could do math i would be deligted
17:30:12  <planetmaker> it does not
17:30:25  <Lakie> Ah so much for laziness
17:30:38  <DJNekkid> #define SOMETHING SOMETHING_ELSE<minus>1
17:30:44  <planetmaker> yeah. I wished for that multiple times and spend hours looking for a solution
17:31:17  <planetmaker> that's actually one other advantage of NML ;-)
17:31:23  <Lakie> Heh
17:31:37  <Lakie> Renum once used something but its since gone
17:31:44  * Lakie used it the finnish set source
17:31:45  <planetmaker> it did? wow
17:31:49  <Lakie> Aye
17:31:58  <Lakie> Since removed though for whatever reason
17:32:49  <Lakie> (and it worked since otherwise my vehicles would have all had bad offsets otherwise). ;)
17:32:55  <planetmaker> probably not the point of nforenum and a macro language can be used instead
17:33:06  <Lakie> Possibly
17:33:47  * andythenorth doesn't want to spend time debugging CPP calculations
17:33:57  <andythenorth> :)
17:34:01  <planetmaker> :-)
17:34:06  <andythenorth> I would like the maths, but on balance simpler is better
17:34:12  <Lakie> Do you mean g++ or c++?
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17:34:37  <noteda7> #gnaa - RECRUITMENT DRIVE, JOIN US FOR THE BEST IRC CHAT EVER! iwillrockyou
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17:34:45  <Lakie> ie. a c program or just the preprocessor?
17:34:45  <planetmaker> @op
17:34:45  *** Webster sets mode: +o planetmaker
17:34:56  *** planetmaker sets mode: +b *!*@174.122.112.*
17:35:00  <planetmaker> @deop
17:35:00  *** Webster sets mode: -o planetmaker
17:35:07  <V453000> more and more spam lately :(
17:39:13  <Brot6> 2cc train set - Feature #2220 (New): 81-717.5M (Voyager1) @
17:39:54  <Brot6> 2cc train set - Feature #2218: When should we release 2.0? (Voyager1) @
17:40:26  <Brot6> 2cc train set - Feature #2220: 81-717.5M (DJNekkid) @
17:43:09  <Brot6> 2cc train set - Feature #2220: 81-717.5M (Voyager1) @
17:49:08  <Brot6> 2cc train set - Feature #2218: When should we release 2.0? (planetmaker) @
18:22:34  <andythenorth> planetmaker: how do I avoid breaking translations when changing lang defines?
18:24:17  <planetmaker> well... if you change strings, you necessarily break translations :-)
18:24:58  * planetmaker goes looking at the translator script
18:25:41  <Terkhen> if you rename lang defines, rename the defines at the translations too
18:26:41  <Brot6> 2cc train set - Feature #2221 (New): Taipei C301 (Voyager1) @
18:26:43  <andythenorth> so find and replace...
18:26:50  <Terkhen> use sed
18:26:59  <planetmaker> yes, if it is just renaming, then renaming in the lang files is helpful, too
18:27:21  <planetmaker> if it is removing: it's nice to remove them there, too
18:27:30  <planetmaker> if it's changing: do nothing or remove them
18:28:11  * planetmaker just used ./check_language 02 ... and it seems to work mostly :-)
18:29:14  <planetmaker> just the usual false alarms for some strings
18:29:33  <planetmaker> which changed in the original but need no language update :-)
18:36:53  <Brot6> 2cc train set - Feature #2221: Taipei C301 (Voyager1) @
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18:59:12  <Brot6> 2cc train set - Feature #1730 (Reopened): Washington 7000 (Voyager1) @
19:03:13  <Brot6> 32bpp-ez-patches: update from r21920 to r21924 done -
19:06:02  <Brot6> clientpatches: update from r21488 to r21488 done -
19:07:08  <Brot6> serverpatches: compile of r21924 still failed (#2080) -
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20:32:07  <Brot6> FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Revision 1639:ba4a154d15b0: Change: Sugar Refinery industry text ... (andythenorth) @
20:32:44  <andythenorth> so how do I figure out if I broke translations?
20:35:27  <andythenorth> planetmaker: ^
20:35:49  <Brot6> FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Revision 1640:b6b6427d18bb: Change: fix code formatting; correctl... (andythenorth) @
20:36:03  <planetmaker> there's in scripts a script: check_translations
20:36:14  <planetmaker> give it as parameter the langID (e.g. 02 for German)
20:36:21  <planetmaker> it'll tell what might need changing
20:37:47  <andythenorth> one string missing...
20:37:48  <planetmaker> output doesn't seem to have changed
20:37:59  <planetmaker> oh, right :-)
20:38:09  <planetmaker> that's new
20:38:10  <andythenorth> I expect one to be missing
20:38:18  <planetmaker> then it's fine
20:38:19  <andythenorth> what I'm not sure is if I should add it
20:38:23  <andythenorth> to each language
20:38:23  <planetmaker> no
20:38:35  <planetmaker> must not - or that script fails to detect it
20:38:45  <planetmaker> and we won't see what needs doing
20:38:57  <andythenorth> ok
20:39:00  <andythenorth> my work is done then :)
20:39:06  <planetmaker> :-)
20:39:20  <Brot6> FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Bug #1878 (Closed): Wrong string for Sugar Refinery (andythenorth) @
20:39:45  <andythenorth> I'm working my way through FIRS 0.6 tickets
20:39:46  <andythenorth>
20:40:21  <planetmaker> :-)
20:40:40  <andythenorth> the remaining tickets are harder :P
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20:58:32  <Brot6> OpenGFX - Bug #2222 (New): wooden brigde, upper construction missing (Kjell_Bjarne) @
21:00:25  <Brot6> OpenGFX - Bug #2222: wooden brigde, upper construction missing (Kjell_Bjarne) @
21:18:24  <dihedral> planetmaker, why not limit the 'developer tools' to developer builds?
21:18:48  <dihedral> that way the commands would only be available to developer builds and not to the general download
21:19:11  <Brot6> OpenGFX - Bug #2222: wooden brigde, upper construction missing (planetmaker) @
21:19:16  <planetmaker> he
21:19:31  <dihedral> a developer build could also display a warning about bug reports, and not write crash logs
21:19:52  <planetmaker> well. Many newgrf developers don't want or know how to compile the game themselves
21:20:06  <planetmaker> To exclude them from this tool targeted at them would probably not be a good idea
21:20:20  <planetmaker> Even though I agree, it's a tempting thought ;-)
21:20:44  <dihedral> who mentioned 'compile themselves' ?
21:20:45  <dihedral> :-)
21:20:57  <dihedral> you can still distribute binaries
21:21:08  <planetmaker> which? Nightlies?
21:21:17  <dihedral> but it's quite clear then if a warning message opens up each time you start the game
21:21:34  <planetmaker> hm
21:22:26  <Rubidium> give the amount of nightly bug reports with NewGRF caused bugs... don't think nightlies should be "developer" builds
21:22:33  <Rubidium> so that leaves...
21:23:20  <planetmaker> well. I think we should this change give some time to become 'active'
21:23:25  <planetmaker> and people getting used to
21:23:32  <dihedral> how many newgrf developers work with stable builds?
21:23:39  <planetmaker> :-)
21:23:43  <Rubidium> the problem is the people that download *everything* and *anything*, and then do *everything* and *anything* without reading... and then get crashes and without reading *everything* or *anything* file bug reports
21:23:50  <planetmaker> how many newgrf developer are there?
21:24:20  <Rubidium> dihedral: suchs gems as FS#4446
21:24:24  <planetmaker> I'd recon there are some dozens, but less than 100
21:24:32  <planetmaker> hahaha :-)
21:24:40  <planetmaker> that's the best I've seen ever
21:25:12  <dihedral> yeah :-D
21:25:38  <dihedral> the question is not "how many newgrf devs are there" but "how many people disregard the general warning"
21:28:11  <dihedral> well, removing such support from the general releases is my best idea
21:30:07  <Brot6> FISH - Revision 551:704bc0631dba: Change: update graphics for kometa hydrofoil (andythenorth) @
21:30:07  <Brot6> FISH - Revision 552:4a59de51783c: Change: set intro date correctly for Klyazma Hydrofoil (andythenorth) @
21:30:33  <dihedral> i love the title of fs4449
21:30:39  <Rubidium> dihedral: FS#4337 is nice too
21:31:20  <Brot6> FISH - Revision 553:cee1aab49c21: Change: use escape for intro date (andythenorth) @
21:31:37  <dihedral> what people must think when creating those tickets
21:34:06  <Brot6> FISH - Revision 554:10322230e00d: Add: rendered intermediates for boeing hydrofoil (andythenorth) @
21:35:08  <Brot6> FISH - Revision 555:2750100385fd: Add: file for 818 Hydrofoil (andythenorth) @
21:56:49  <Brot6> FISH - Revision 556:f7919caba6ba: Change: rename defines for Kometa Hydrofoil to Klyazma (andythenorth) @
21:56:49  <Brot6> FISH - Revision 557:874cc1bb5f2d: Change: rename graphics files for Kometa Hydrofoil to Klyazma (andythenorth) @
21:56:49  <Brot6> FISH - Revision 558:20991109edf7: Change: rename file for Kometa Hydrofoil to Klyazma (andythenorth) @
22:12:37  <Brot6> FISH - Feature #2072 (Closed): Update sprites for Traders (andythenorth) @
22:20:38  <Brot6> FISH - Revision 559:9be609a046d5: Change: Xacuabs Hydrofoil (unfunished) (andythenorth) @
22:20:38  <Brot6> FISH - Revision 560:88843159fdf6: Change: hide Xacuabs Hydrofoil (andythenorth) @
22:30:20  <DJNekkid> that is wierd
22:31:01  <DJNekkid> when i quit the game, and i have set a shortcut key to someting non-0-9-a-Z it get a crash
22:31:13  <Brot6> FISH - Revision 561:f3282c470c8f: Fix: remove an error with conflicting action 2 IDs for hydrofoils (andythenorth) @
22:33:08  <Brot6> FISH - Revision 562:01735496c58f: Fix: remove a build error with hydrofoils by commenting an unus... (andythenorth) @
22:34:12  <andythenorth> ta da
22:34:18  <andythenorth> no build errors in FISH
22:34:54  <andythenorth> and so bed time
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22:37:38  <Brot6> FISH - Bug #2193 (Closed): DevZone compile failed (andythenorth) @
22:46:44  <Brot6> Grapes - Feature Request #1770 (Rejected): Command ExtentionPoint (dih) @
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22:49:12  <Brot6> 2cc train set - Feature #2223 (New): NOLB 1 (Voyager1) @
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