Log for #openttdcoop.devzone on 7th February 2011:
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00:06:11  <Brot6> OpenGFX+ Trains - Revision 205:1d108317cc21: Doc: Update changelog for 0.2.2 (planetmaker) @
00:06:11  <Brot6> OpenGFX+ Trains - Revision 206:606dcfcfeafe: Added tag 0.2.2 for changeset 1d108317cc21 (planetmaker) @
00:06:48  <Brot6> ogfx-trains: update from 0.2.1 to 0.2.2 done (43 errors) -
00:39:42  <Brot6> OpenGFX+ Trains - Feature #2260 (New): Allow engines to be reversed (planetmaker) @
00:43:45  <Brot6> DevZone Help Center - Bug #2261 (New): build with new(est) version of NML (planetmaker) @
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06:04:48  <Brot6> 2cc train set - Code Review #2262 (New): Add "engine flip" bit to singe engines (EmperorJake) @
07:01:38  <Brot6> NewGRF Meta Language - Code Review #2263 (New): House properties (planetmaker) @
09:45:10  <Brot6> DevZone Help Center - Bug #2261: build with new(est) version of NML (Ammler) @
09:47:58  <Brot6> DevZone Help Center - Bug #2261: build with new(est) version of NML (planetmaker) @
10:55:40  <Ammler> planetmaker: this does really suprise you?
10:56:50  <Brot6> 2cc train set - Feature #2256: NS Mat '54 (Voyager1) @
10:57:49  <Brot6> DevZone Help Center - Bug #2261: build with new(est) version of NML (Ammler) @
11:04:32  <Brot6> DevZone Help Center - Bug #2261: build with new(est) version of NML (Ammler) @
11:11:22  <planetmaker> Ammler, somewhat yes. I always assumed that projects were built with the current NML version
11:26:37  <Ammler> planetmaker: yes, it does
11:26:48  <Ammler> you see current version with finger
11:27:01  <Ammler> current != tip :-)
11:27:52  <Ammler> oh, and this is not a bug of the compiler, rather of your framework or the project
11:28:46  <planetmaker> I'm quite sure the CF has been using nml head perviously
11:29:04  <Ammler> never for sure
11:29:17  <Ammler> it isn't possible, it can't use something which is not built
11:29:30  <Ammler> (it needs a rpm)
11:29:47  <Ammler> anyway, it is possible
11:30:50  <Ammler> I am not sure, is ogfx-rv release broken or just different md5?
11:31:07  <planetmaker> dunno, I know of no issue
11:31:39  <Terkhen> neither do I
11:31:59  <Ammler> <-- nor serious errors?
11:32:21  <planetmaker> those errors are somewhat 'new', but not serious
11:32:22  <Ammler> then I wonder, why you made a ticket about
11:32:44  <planetmaker> They're due to the fact that there's code in the project which is only activated when a define is set (which is not)
11:33:47  <planetmaker> Ammler, I made this CF ticket as my md5sum didn't match the CF's md5sum. Which is a non-negligible issue
11:34:15  <planetmaker> yes, I found out it was due to the NML version - exactly in the log file you linked in the ticket.
11:34:24  <Ammler> yes, but obviously you don't use same nml, as you said
11:34:38  <planetmaker> Yes. I use(d) head
11:34:45  <Ammler> which is a error from the projects nml and yours, nothing releated to the build scripts
11:35:28  <planetmaker> and all I say is: as NML's state is now, it should use head, unless asked to do otherwise.
11:35:43  <Ammler> yep, which is possible :-)
11:36:03  <Ammler> you wanna me to configure nml and ogfx-rv to do so?
11:36:43  <Ammler> s/is/should be/
11:37:13  <planetmaker> so both projects would need a commit for that? Hm...
11:37:59  <Ammler> oh please, stop using "needs commit" as reason against, you should be over that :-)
11:38:44  <Ammler> I am sure, you made already at least equal useless commits
11:38:59  <planetmaker> sure
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11:41:05  <Ammler> obs does make commits for every build
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14:11:57  <Brot6> NewGRF Meta Language - Code Review #2263: House properties (planetmaker) @
14:13:51  <Brot6> NewGRF Meta Language - Code Review #2263: House properties (planetmaker) @
14:43:13  <Brot6> NewGRF Meta Language - Code Review #2263: House properties (yexo) @
14:44:48  <Yexo> planetmaker / Ammler: personally I'm fine with "projects use nml nightly"
14:45:02  <Yexo> if a project really needs to use nml head one of use can always trigger a manual build for nml
14:47:02  <planetmaker> well, mostly I was surprised as I assumed differently.
14:47:16  <planetmaker> Most often it probably does not make a big difference (anymore)
14:47:50  <planetmaker> What I learnt from it that I somewhere output the used NML version into the released grf, so that it will be reproducable
14:48:59  <planetmaker> possibly the readme.
14:59:18  <Ammler> it doesn't need to be generic, you can still keep default nightly and tell a single project to use push builds
15:00:03  <Hirundo> planetmaker: did you test your prop patch?
15:01:49  <planetmaker> no, not yet
15:02:02  <planetmaker> I just wrote it.
15:02:11  <planetmaker> testing is for the evening ;-)
15:02:22  <planetmaker> I've a test case at home
15:03:00  <planetmaker> so it might be horribly broken ;-)
15:03:02  <Hirundo> There will be syntax errors :)
15:03:47  <Hirundo> Is the value of accepted_cargo_type "A, B, C" or "[A, B, C]" ?
15:04:31  <Hirundo> oh and you will need to add some form of rounding
15:04:45  <planetmaker> I don't mind either way. Yes, probably rounding, too.
15:04:53  <Hirundo> floats aren't exact, so 0.125 * 8 might be < 1
15:05:13  <planetmaker> That's actually another issue: Do we want to use floats - or do we want to use the ints in units of 1/8?
15:05:18  <planetmaker> what is easier for the user?
15:05:27  <planetmaker> I'm not convinced anymore about the 0.125...
15:05:32  <Hirundo> Perhaps ints are better
15:05:46  <Yexo> I'm not sure which one is better
15:06:25  <planetmaker> so we're two ;-)
15:06:36  <Hirundo> floats imply a continuous range of values, which is not valid in this case IMO
15:06:56  <planetmaker> but the property describes a fraction
15:07:15  <planetmaker> and we use that in other cases, too. Like friction coefficient etc.
15:07:29  <planetmaker> But using 1...8 might be easier than 0.125 ... 1
15:07:41  <planetmaker> for this small amount of steps
15:08:41  <Hirundo> is 0 also a possible value?
15:09:19  <planetmaker> sure
15:09:29  <planetmaker> a house is not forced to accept cargo
15:10:15  <Hirundo> 1 house may be forced to accept thousands of passengers in OpenTTD
15:10:35  <Hirundo> how unrealistic
15:10:36  <planetmaker> yes. But acceptance is only 0 ... 8
15:10:48  <planetmaker> where 8 is sufficient to have the station accept things
15:11:24  <planetmaker> Hirundo, but you can programme the realisme via varaction2
15:12:25  <Hirundo> nah, you need a patch pack with at least 30 patches for that
15:12:32  <planetmaker> :-P
15:13:04  <planetmaker> newgrf patchpack ;-)
15:13:07  <Yexo> <planetmaker> Hirundo, but you can programme the realisme via varaction2 <- not for houses I think
15:13:20  <planetmaker> I think you can reference the station, can't you?
15:13:33  <Yexo> from a house? no
15:13:44  <Yexo> there are some station callbacks, but not any to stop accepting some cargo
15:13:51  <planetmaker> yes
15:14:04  <planetmaker> #
15:14:04  <planetmaker> # Cargo acceptance history of nearby stations (64)
15:14:06  <Yexo> you could set payment to zero from a cargo callback, but that one can't reference the house / area around the station
15:14:10  <planetmaker> that might work
15:14:31  <planetmaker> but yes, a missing callback might destroy my cunning plan
15:15:58  <Yexo> <planetmaker> # Cargo acceptance history of nearby stations (64)  <- which feature is that?
15:16:40  <Hirundo> as a side note w.r.t. cunning plans, I figured that the new var 7B allows quite an efficient method of implementing a call stack for var 7E procedure calls
15:17:06  <planetmaker> it's listed as variable under houses, Yexo
15:17:30  <Yexo> Hirundo: did you read this: "Variable 7B itself and 7E (procedure call) are not allowed to be used as parameter for variable 7B."?
15:17:48  <planetmaker>
15:17:49  <Hirundo> yes I did
15:18:06  <Yexo> ok, I'm just not sure what you mean with "a call stack" in this case
15:18:27  <Yexo> planetmaker: ah, yes, but that is not useful as you don't know where that cargo went from the station
15:18:29  <Hirundo> You could use one register as 'stack pointer', and then pass parameters in register stack pointer, stack pointer + 1, etc
15:19:04  <planetmaker> Yexo, not knowing where it went is not strictly necessary IMHO
15:19:30  <Yexo> ah, you want to do the temporary storage fixing at runtime instead of at compiletime?
15:19:57  <Hirundo> Currently it's not needed, but in large grfs with interdependencies you may run out of storage space easily
15:20:20  <Yexo> it's possible, but I don't think we'll ever run out of storage space
15:20:46  <planetmaker> Yexo, and there's callback 148
15:20:50  <planetmaker>
15:22:05  <Yexo> planetmaker: yes, but if you have multiple houses in the catchment area of that station they'll all stop accepting the cargo at the same time
15:22:25  <planetmaker> unless you check for other houses, too ;-)
15:22:41  <planetmaker> or use a random component
15:23:04  <planetmaker> and maybe knowledge of how long the house already accepted
15:23:16  <Yexo> you can't reliable check for other houses since you don't know where the station is, so you don't know which area to check
15:23:53  <Yexo> and knowledge of how long the house is already accepting cargo is not really useful as you have nothing to compare against
15:24:17  <planetmaker> landinfo_nearby_tile could help
15:24:19  <Yexo> + I don't think that's actually possible since houses don't have persistent storage
15:24:41  <Yexo> no, that doesn't help, there could be multiple stations close enough and you can't figure out which one is the current one accepting cargo
15:32:20  <planetmaker> well, that's right. But the question was whether the house should accept infinitely. For that it doesn't matter which one delivered stuff
15:33:56  <Yexo> but you can't have a limit on a single house without limiting all houses in the station catchment at the same time
15:38:43  <planetmaker> well. seems I can watch the cargo acceptance, but not change it ;-)
15:39:41  <planetmaker> it would itch me in the fingers to make a FIRS-compatible house set :-P
15:42:50  <Yexo> you could make a bar-house which changes graphics if beer was accepted last month at a nearby industry
15:42:54  <Yexo> s/industry/station/
15:43:23  <planetmaker> yep. Or petrol station. or alike :-)
15:43:28  <planetmaker> Or statium
15:43:31  <planetmaker> *stadium
15:43:34  <Yexo> yep
15:43:54  <Yexo> only host a game if passengers have been delivered ;)
15:44:00  <planetmaker> yep :-)
15:44:06  <planetmaker> that's actually a very cute idea
15:44:30  <planetmaker> I yesterday night grabbed Zephyris' UK Houses sprites
15:44:45  <planetmaker> For toying around and testing this NML part.
15:45:08  <planetmaker> they're nicely templated :-)
17:08:58  <Brot6> nml: update from r1166 to r1179 done -
17:11:08  <Brot6> 2cc train set - Feature #2256: NS Mat '54 (Voyager1) @
17:18:32  <Brot6> firs: update from r1728 to r1743 done -
17:19:04  <Brot6> Example NewGRF Project - Bug #2264 (New): DevZone compile failed (compiler) @
17:19:16  <Brot6> Following repos didn't need a nightlies update: 2cctrainset (r736), 32bpp-extra (r39), ai-admiralai (r75), ai-aroai (r11), ailib-common (r21), ailib-direction (r17), ailib-list (r32), ailib-string (r29), ailib-tile (r16), airportsplus (r71), basecosts (r22), belarusiantowns (r8), bros (r45), comic-houses (r71), fish (r567), frenchtowns (r6), grfcodec (r821), heqs (r572), indonesiantowns (r41), manindu (r6), metrotrackset (r56), narvs
17:19:16  <Brot6> (r5), nml (r1179), nutracks (r176), ogfx-industries (r3), ogfx-landscape (r23), ogfx-rv (r78), ogfx-trees (r42), opengfx (r608), openmsx (r97), opensfx (r97), smts (r19), snowlinemod (r45), spanishtowns (r10), swedishrails (r193), swisstowns (r22), transrapidtrackset (r15), ttdviewer (r26), ttrs (r24), worldairlinersset (r671)
17:19:31  <Brot6> OpenGFX+ Trains - Bug #2265 (New): DevZone compile failed (compiler) @
17:19:32  <Brot6> OpenGFX+ Airports - Bug #2266 (New): DevZone compile failed (compiler) @
17:19:56  <Brot6> Belarusian Town Names - Bug #2267 (New): DevZone compile failed (compiler) @
17:19:57  <Brot6> French Town Names - Bug #2268 (New): DevZone compile failed (compiler) @
17:20:34  <Brot6> newgrf_makefile: compile of r255 still failed (#2264) -
17:20:38  <Brot6> Indonesian Town Names - Bug #2269 (New): DevZone compile failed (compiler) @
17:20:38  <Brot6> Manual Industries - Bug #2270 (New): DevZone compile failed (compiler) @
17:20:38  <Brot6> North American Road Vehicle Set (NARVS) - Bug #2271 (New): DevZone compile failed (compiler) @
17:21:14  <Brot6> ogfx-trains: compile of r206 still failed (#2265) -
17:21:15  <Brot6> OpenGFX+ Industries - Bug #2272 (New): DevZone compile failed (compiler) @
17:21:15  <Brot6> OpenGFX+ Landscape - Bug #2273 (New): DevZone compile failed (compiler) @
17:21:15  <Brot6> OpenGFX+ Road Vehicles - Bug #2274 (New): DevZone compile failed (compiler) @
17:21:48  <planetmaker> Hm, all NML projects failed
17:22:15  <Brot6> Spanish Town Names - Bug #2275 (New): DevZone compile failed (compiler) @
17:22:15  <Brot6> Swedish Rails - Bug #2276 (New): DevZone compile failed (compiler) @
17:22:15  <Brot6> Swiss Town Names - Bug #2277 (New): DevZone compile failed (compiler) @
17:30:49  <planetmaker> yexo: ^^ that looks like an error with the split of
17:31:23  <planetmaker> (yes, locally I didn't have problems)
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17:32:34  <Yexo> looks like that indeed, but locally it works fine here
17:32:48  <Yexo> I really don't have time now, will be back in 4 to 5 hours
17:38:38  <planetmaker> no worries :-)
17:38:57  <planetmaker> enjoy! :-)
17:48:43  <Ammler> planetmaker: another python version?
17:49:06  <Ammler> or maybe a missing python lib?
17:50:36  <planetmaker> not sure. I use 2.6 here, too
17:50:46  <planetmaker> so possibly a missing lib - but no idea
17:57:50  <Ammler> maybe we should not make a bug ticket on rebuild
17:58:39  <planetmaker> hm, maybe :-)
17:58:51  <planetmaker> sometimes bad, sometimes good
17:58:55  <planetmaker> hard to tell
17:59:02  <planetmaker> but possibly rather not
17:59:12  <Ammler> also this should be a regression test
17:59:14  <planetmaker> as it'd be unneeded for a "finished" project
17:59:16  <Ammler> can you do that?
17:59:25  <planetmaker> what should be a regression test?
17:59:31  <planetmaker> and do what?
17:59:47  <planetmaker> this re-build is a good regression test for nml, yes, so it should be tried
17:59:50  <Ammler> the regression test for nml to fail in the case all the projects fails
18:01:54  <planetmaker> oh
18:02:03  <planetmaker> good question...
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18:51:09  <Ammler> planetmaker: I guess, it is an error from
18:51:16  <planetmaker> hm
18:51:43  <Ammler> we had that once already
18:54:04  <DJNekkid> any suggestions on a simple image-editor for linux?
18:54:12  <Ammler> gomp
18:54:18  <Ammler> i*
18:56:07  <DJNekkid> im not sure if im concidering that simple
18:56:17  <Rubidium> apt-cache search image editor|grep "image editor"
18:56:24  <Rubidium> kolourpaint4 - simple image editor and drawing application
18:56:46  <Rubidium> disclaimer: I haven't tried it, so I have *no* clue whether it's any good
18:57:56  <DJNekkid> lets see...
18:57:56  <Brot6> 2cc train set - Feature #2278 (New): Victorian Railways AEC RM1 (Voyager1) @
18:58:16  <Ammler> DJNekkid: gimp _is_ simple
18:58:29  <Ammler> you don't need to use every function it provides, do you?
18:58:38  <DJNekkid> Ammler: sooo many buttons!!! *runs*
18:58:59  <Ammler> yeah, you don't need to enable every window :-)
18:59:14  <Ammler> toolbox and layers is enough for start
18:59:55  <DJNekkid> but that kolorpaint looks easy enough :P
19:00:21  <Ammler> just be sure to have "good" palette support
19:00:58  <DJNekkid> yup :)
19:01:07  <DJNekkid> that is my main concern :P
19:01:22  <Ammler> IMO, it is easier to learn simple functions with gimp
19:01:41  <Ammler> as to learn simple image editor
19:02:07  <planetmaker> DJNekkid: it's easy to get the basic functions with gimp
19:02:43  <planetmaker> r: select rectangle. shift+o: select all area with colour, n: paint... that's about it ;-)
19:03:19  <Brot6> 32bpp-ez-patches: update from r22002 to r22009 done (4 errors) -
19:06:07  <Brot6> clientpatches: update from r21488 to r21488 done -
19:07:11  <Brot6> serverpatches: compile of r22009 still failed (#2080) -
19:09:14  <DJNekkid> hmm, that line just made my day planetmaker:D
19:10:23  <planetmaker> well, they're just as easily available from the buttons
19:10:37  <planetmaker> but searching for buttons is too lengthy for my taste ;-)
19:11:10  <DJNekkid> and i usually have one hand on the keyboard anyway
19:12:19  <Brot6> nml-ammler: compile of r1180 failed -
19:14:43  <planetmaker> Well, I have both on the keyboard :-) - thanks to the touchpad "mouse" and keyboard can be used concurrently with both hands
19:15:08  <planetmaker> in any case: it really pays off to get used to gimp.
19:15:20  <planetmaker> yes, I hated the UI initially, too ;-)
19:15:23  <DJNekkid> probably :D
19:15:28  <Brot6> nml-ammler: compile of r1180 failed -
19:15:43  <DJNekkid> but a 16*16 or 32*32 grid would be nice, and not the 10x10 i currently use
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19:16:48  <DJNekkid> and suggestons on the save-as-screen?
19:16:54  <DJNekkid> so i ensure its 8bit and stuffs
19:24:11  <DJNekkid> yey, ound the grid :D
19:48:16  <Brot6> nml-ammler: compile of r1180 failed -
20:33:07  <Ammler> it is not possible to install the package we are building right now since the build script has no root access
20:40:47  <Brot6> Manual Industries - Bug #2270 (Rejected): DevZone compile failed (compiler) @
20:40:47  <Brot6> Manual Industries - Bug #2270 (Rejected): DevZone compile failed (frosch) @
20:47:37  <Ammler> frosch123: try to use a installed nmlc :-)
21:13:29  <frosch123> hmm? it works on my machine
21:13:45  <frosch123> though hg said something weird on updating nml
21:14:09  <frosch123> warning: detected divergent renames of nml/ to:
21:14:10  <frosch123>  nml/expression/
21:14:12  <frosch123>  nml/expression/
21:14:13  <planetmaker> it said ^
21:14:15  <frosch123> no idea what that means :)
21:14:31  <planetmaker> that file probably was copied once and renanamed once - to different targets
21:15:01  <planetmaker> source: 1 file ( target: those two files
21:24:26  <Ammler> frosch123: the most people don't install it
21:25:31  <Ammler> I assume, this patch wuold fix it:
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21:28:00  <Brot6> NewGRF Meta Language - Bug #2279 (New): installed nml doesn't work (Ammler) @
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21:42:03  <Brot6> NewGRF Meta Language - Bug #2279 (New): installed nml doesn't work (Ammler) @
21:46:56  <Brot6> NewGRF Meta Language - Feature Request #2280 (New): using sphinx for the reference (Ammler) @
22:00:34  <Brot6> FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Feature #473 (Rejected): Windfarm (andythenorth) @
22:01:20  <Ammler> :'-(
22:02:14  <andythenorth> Ammler: it's a new object somewhere
22:02:30  <planetmaker> ogfx+landscape has that wind power plant, Ammler
22:02:39  <planetmaker> same graphics, same animation :-)
22:02:52  <Lakie> Hehe
22:03:13  <planetmaker> well, I'm not sure about the speed as I wrote it from scratch, but yes :-)
22:03:17  <Brot6> FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Bug #2281 (New): Fishing chain locations not ideal on low water maps (andythenorth) @
22:03:20  * Lakie wonders if nml has been updated wih the various changes that happened to objects a while ago
22:03:45  <planetmaker> Not sure which you mean... maybe. maybe not ;-)
22:03:50  <Lakie> views
22:04:01  <planetmaker> might be not
22:04:02  <Lakie> var 47 and 48 maybe some changes to var43?
22:04:21  <planetmaker> can you please make a ticket for code review about that?
22:04:38  <Lakie> Yeah
22:04:50  <planetmaker> I'm falling literally asleep right now, so I wish you a good night before it's too late ;-)
22:05:13  <Lakie> Night planetmaker
22:05:18  <Rubidium> happy "falling" ;)
22:05:26  <andythenorth> good night planetmaker
22:05:26  <Rubidium> have a safe landing
22:12:28  <Brot6> NewGRF Meta Language - Bug #2279 (Closed): installed nml doesn't work (Ammler) @
22:12:28  <Brot6> NewGRF Meta Language - Revision 1180:ba1f6118f88a: Fix #2279 (r1170): add the new directory to th... (yexo) @
22:12:28  <Brot6> NewGRF Meta Language - Bug #2279 (Closed): installed nml doesn't work (yexo) @
22:31:31  <Brot6> Total Town Replacement Set 4 - Revision 4:7686cf600cda: Added food sign (George) @
22:41:41  <Brot6> Total Town Replacement Set 4 - Revision 5:5e7da1238c6a: New house to accept food - The Pied Piper... (George) @
22:49:02  <Brot6> repository /home/hg/penntowns registered in Redmine with url /home/hg/penntowns
22:49:02  <Brot6> repository /home/hg/penntowns created
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23:19:55  <Brot6> NewGRF Meta Language - Feature Request #2280: using sphinx for the reference (yexo) @
23:20:53  <Ammler> Yexo: spinx is using that, yes ^
23:21:25  <Ammler> but why did you chose html over rst?
23:24:29  <Yexo> can't remember the exact reason for that, but we did discuss rst at the time
23:24:44  <Yexo> probably it was because none of us was familiar with rst yet and we just wanted something to work with
23:25:04  <Yexo> also html has the advantage that we can just link to the repo like we do now and it'll always be the most up-to-date version
23:25:23  <Ammler> Spinx does basically convert rst to html, man etc.
23:26:07  <Yexo> I know, but the only format we need is html
23:26:23  <Yexo> a man-page shouldn't have the complete nml-documentation but rather a description of the commandline options
23:26:42  <Ammler> hmm, man != --help
23:27:54  <Yexo> maybe we'll rewrite it to rst later, for now it's simply not worth the effort
23:28:03  <Yexo> we just need some format
23:28:12  <Yexo> and we need more documentation, not time wasted to convert it to another format
23:28:44  <Ammler> well then :-)
23:31:10  <Ammler> I don't think, you will rather convert later than now and the doc building could be made and published with the usual building like we do with grf2html for the grfs

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