Log for #openttdcoop.devzone on 19th March 2011:
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06:46:54  <Brot6> FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Revision 1859:1bb1a4a29541: Change: improve appearance of Clay Pi... (andythenorth) @
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07:33:13  <Brot6> CHIPS Station Set - Revision 79:457238ac2e9c: Change: improve appearance of Quarry / Clay Pit pla... (andythenorth) @
07:33:13  <Brot6> CHIPS Station Set - Revision 80:5901d1383959: Change: mark Clay Pit platforms as deprecated (andythenorth) @
07:33:13  <Brot6> CHIPS Station Set - Feature #2450 (New): How to handle deprecating tiles? (andythenorth) @
07:47:42  <Brot6> CHIPS Station Set - Revision 81:ee93da6ddb9e: Change: improve appearance of Quarry / Clay Pit pla... (andythenorth) @
08:01:16  <Brot6> CHIPS Station Set - Revision 82:7cd53995047f: Change: further improve appearance of Quarry / Clay... (andythenorth) @
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08:27:17  <Brot6> 2cc train set - Feature #56: rework region availability parameter (EmperorJake) @
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09:59:38  <Brot6> FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Revision 1861:f7bc747b8c1a: Change: adjust special flags for Recy... (andythenorth) @
09:59:38  <Brot6> FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Revision 1862:7cb3c11a4f39: Change: set correct industry type and... (andythenorth) @
09:59:38  <Brot6> FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Revision 1863:e23390b906b2: Feature: improved graphics for Recycl... (andythenorth) @
09:59:40  <Brot6> FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Revision 1864:7cc84aca0f19: Change: set correct production templa... (andythenorth) @
09:59:44  <Brot6> FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Revision 1865:8354f938fe0f: Change: (translations) set correct st... (andythenorth) @
10:03:06  <Brot6> FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Revision 1866:2fbc8ca5f3b1: Change: set map colour for Recycling ... (andythenorth) @
10:04:56  <Brot6> FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Revision 1867:396031c8ac96: Change: slightly reduce Junk Yard ini... (andythenorth) @
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11:52:42  <Brot6> CHIPS Station Set - Feature #2450: How to handle deprecating tiles? (planetmaker) @
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12:37:29  * Lakie has a play with real expressions.
12:37:54  <Lakie> Could save me somewhat of a headache with some of my automation...
12:55:51  <Brot6> OpenGFX+ Trains - Revision 231:b86b17216f4c: Add #2284: Special depot sprites and flipping for Le... (planetmaker) @
13:12:59  <Brot6> 2cc train set - Feature #56: rework region availability parameter (Purno) @
13:16:52  <Brot6> 2cc train set - Feature #56: rework region availability parameter (Ammler) @
13:17:52  <Brot6> OpenGFX+ Trains - Revision 232:f23d1c62ea39: Fix: Lev3 was shown reversed in the purchase view (planetmaker) @
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13:23:05  <Brot6> OpenGFX+ Trains - Feature Request #2411: Reversing engines (planetmaker) @
13:40:45  <Brot6> 2cc train set - Feature #56: rework region availability parameter (Voyager1) @
13:46:03  <Rubidium> so... anything that needs to be done for GRFCodec before 5.1.1?
13:46:32  <Ammler> Rubidium: anything that needs to be tested from packaging?
13:46:37  <Ammler> something new
13:46:52  <Ammler> (I guess not)
13:49:07  <Rubidium> not that I'm aware of
13:53:56  <Brot6> GRFCodec - Revision 826:ffaf165c7ab3: Update changelog (Rubidium) @
13:53:56  <Brot6> GRFCodec - Revision 827:b9156b157db0: Update copyright year (Rubidium) @
13:53:56  <Brot6> GRFCodec - Revision 828:af2ecb7b3a95: Added tag 5.1.1 for changeset b9156b157db0 (Rubidium) @
13:57:34  <Ammler> Rubidium: "-source" in the folder is very uncommen
13:57:44  <Ammler> (fine for archive)
13:58:46  <Ammler> default is "cd %{name}-%{version}"
13:59:04  <Rubidium> yeah... you *could* have mentioned that *before* the release...
13:59:21  <Ammler> well, it is something generic of all the projects
13:59:56  <Ammler> doesn't really matter, such things might be better to keep :-)
14:00:29  <Ammler> does it not matter for Debian?
14:01:39  <Rubidium> don't know
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14:02:20  <Rubidium> and don't really care anymore; I've been whining for those updates for a while and if he doesn't do it then I don't really care about making packaging easier either
14:03:10  <Rubidium> and I've asked for feedback from the fedora guys as well on the packaging before 5.0.0 and it's been this way since then
14:03:52  <Ammler> well, this is the "openttd" way, if you would change it, you would need to change it on all openttd projects
14:04:10  <Brot6> GRFCodec - GRFCodec 5.1.1 (Rubidium) @
14:04:13  <Ammler> it is absolutely no issue
14:04:27  <Ammler> I just mentioned it
14:04:32  <Rubidium> openttd itself has no -source in the extracted thing
14:04:38  <Ammler> hmm
14:04:54  <Rubidium> don't know about the base sets though
14:05:23  <Ammler> %setup -qn openttd%{?branch:-%{branch}}-%{srcver} <-- oh, indeed
14:06:03  <Ammler> but as you see, I also need to specify it there
14:06:36  <Rubidium> specify what there?
14:07:06  <Ammler> macro %setup is to unpack and cd to the project (and some other tasks
14:07:42  <Ammler> a rpm compliant package would need just the call "%setup" without -n <directory>
14:08:16  <Rubidium>
14:08:17  <Webster> Title: Chapter 12. How to tell if a FLOSS project is doomed to FAIL (at
14:08:45  <Rubidium> it would give OpenTTD 10 points of FAIL extra if we don't add versions there
14:08:58  <Rubidium> and then babies would cry
14:13:12  <SmatZ> that's just bs
14:14:19  <SmatZ> all those numbers could be /5
14:35:11  <Brot6> OpenGFX+ Trains - Revision 233:45cb5b402c05: Doc: Preparae changelog and readme for release of 0.2.3 (planetmaker) @
14:35:11  <Brot6> OpenGFX+ Trains - Revision 234:79b5b9c8704c: Added tag 0.2.3 for changeset 45cb5b402c05 (planetmaker) @
14:36:37  <Brot6> ogfx-trains: update from 0.2.2 to 0.2.3 done -
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15:14:11  * Lakie hacks the script a little
15:14:23  <Lakie> currently has no concept of relatives. :(
15:14:48  <Lakie> Which breaks includes if I give absolute paths, so I'm trying a makeshift fix
15:29:35  <planetmaker> uhm... what do you try, Lakie ?
15:29:55  <Lakie> ../lang/file
15:30:10  <Lakie> Breaks on trying to make dependacy ../lang/file rather than resolving it
15:30:29  <Lakie> Since includes work relative to the folder the file is in from observation
15:30:42  <planetmaker> ah, yes
15:31:29  * Lakie 's hack was if it doesn't start with the sprites/nfo then try resolving it from file's path.
15:31:35  <planetmaker> Lakie: did you try gcc's dep generator?
15:31:47  <planetmaker> e.g. w/o mdep, but 'normal'?
15:31:57  <Lakie> No? dunno how?
15:34:23  <planetmaker> check Makefile_nfo:6
15:35:19  <Lakie> changed it in makefile.local
15:36:11  <Lakie> chokes on sub includes
15:36:34  <Lakie> like header.pnfo using a relative to lang/action14.lnfo
15:38:15  <Lakie> oddly works during the include process itself, so I'm at loss. :(
15:40:01  <Lakie> Sorry, I keep breaking bits of your system with my odd style...
15:40:36  <Lakie> Also, bbiab
15:47:58  <Ammler> Rubidium: has a bit more output as
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17:08:53  <Brot6> grfcodec: update from r825 to r828 done -
17:18:27  <Brot6> chips: update from r78 to r82 done -
17:19:32  <Brot6> firs: update from r1858 to r1867 done -
17:20:00  <Brot6> ogfx-trains: update from r227 to r234 done -
17:20:07  <Brot6> Following repos didn't need a nightlies update: 2cctrainset (r750), 32bpp-extra (r39), ai-admiralai (r75), ai-aroai (r11), ailib-common (r21), ailib-direction (r17), ailib-list (r32), ailib-string (r29), ailib-tile (r16), airportsplus (r73), basecosts (r22), belarusiantowns (r8), bros (r52), comic-houses (r71), fish (r617), frenchtowns (r6), grfcodec (r828), heqs (r580), indonesiantowns (r41), manindu (r7), metrotrackset (r56), narvs
17:20:07  <Brot6> (r29), newgrf_makefile (r264), nml (r1296), nutracks (r179), ogfx-industries (r12), ogfx-landscape (r58), ogfx-rv (r80), ogfx-trees (r42), opengfx (r618), openmsx (r97), opensfx (r97), smts (r19), snowlinemod (r49), spanishtowns (r10), swedishrails (r198), swisstowns (r22), transrapidtrackset (r15), ttdviewer (r26), ttrs (r36), worldairlinersset (r671)
17:22:29  <MinchinWeb> I got my random town names to work!
17:23:46  <Ammler> majonaise :-D
17:23:52  <Ammler> and how?
17:25:00  <Ammler> you wanna upload the source to the devzone, so we have such a advanced grf as example?
17:26:05  <Ammler> (if you aren't able to use mercurial, there is also a simple file upload module)
17:28:33  <MinchinWeb> I added a tar with the source to my Forum post
17:29:10  <MinchinWeb> I ended up flattening the open choice tree, and tweaked a bunch of numbers
17:29:10  <planetmaker> that's much harder to find than e.g. a repository ;-)
17:29:19  <Brot6> Following repos rebuilds successful without any difference to earlier nightlies builds: 2cctrainset (6 errors), 32bpp-extra (2 errors) (Diffsize: 12), basecosts, bros (1 errors), comic-houses (3 errors) (Diffsize: 22), fish, heqs, metrotrackset (Diffsize: 1), newgrf_makefile, nutracks, ogfx-trees, opengfx, smts (Diffsize: 8), snowlinemod, transrapidtrackset (Diffsize: 12), ttrs (7 errors) (Diffsize: 1324), worldairlinersset (Diffsize:
17:29:19  <Brot6> 11)
17:30:04  <MinchinWeb> I know... right now I have it as a side project on Google Code
17:30:20  <MinchinWeb> I'm using SVN there
17:32:34  <MinchinWeb>
17:32:53  <MinchinWeb> is there an easy way to move it from there to DevZone?
17:36:50  <planetmaker> it's quite easy, if you use a hg project there, and know how to use svn2hg.
17:37:06  <planetmaker> it's also possible to use svn, but that repo is not automatically generated
17:38:49  <MinchinWeb> ...not automatically generated on DevZone?
17:40:53  <Ammler> you can still host the repo at google and just use the devzone tracker
17:41:21  <Ammler> or you can use "hg convert" or hgsubversion to convert a svn repo to hg
17:41:40  <MinchinWeb> ok, I'm still new at this... what does the tracker do?
17:46:01  <planetmaker> <-- browse through yourself ;-)
17:46:13  <planetmaker> Most notably 'issues' and 'activity'
17:47:31  <Ammler> your repo at google:
17:47:32  <Brot6> MinchinWeb's Random Town Names - Revision 26: [Minchin Town Names] Bananas release, Version 1 ( @
17:47:32  <Brot6> MinchinWeb's Random Town Names - Revision 27: [Minchin Town Names] Fixed Mime-types ( @
17:49:35  <MinchinWeb> I see ... very cool!
17:50:03  <Ammler> why do you have the tar and grf in your source repo?
17:50:05  <MinchinWeb> so the source files remain hosted on Google Code and I can keep uploading/changing files there?
17:50:13  <Ammler> yes
17:50:18  <MinchinWeb> sweet
17:50:26  <Ammler> but the tar and grf don't belong there
17:50:46  <Ammler> you could register at devzone so we can make you manager there
17:51:07  <MinchinWeb> the tar was just the source put together so I could upload it to the forums as one file
17:51:24  <MinchinWeb> where should the grf go?
17:51:40  <Ammler> yep, but googlecode would also allow upload files, so does the devzone or the forums
17:54:25  <Ammler> currently, the devzone compiler does only support the mercurial repos on our server to be build automatically as nightly or release
17:56:39  <MinchinWeb> You can add me to DevZone, I'm registered as   MinchinWeb
17:58:05  <MinchinWeb> so when stuff is compiled on devzone, where do the compiled files go?
17:58:07  <planetmaker> Hm, I wonder whether it can be sufficiently abstracted. Looking at openttd's makefile it can
17:58:24  <planetmaker>
17:58:52  <planetmaker> you'll find quite some newgrfs there already ;-)
17:59:14  <Ammler> you are manager now of your project
17:59:32  <Ammler> you could also enable the files module for releases (tar & grf)
17:59:51  <Ammler> or whatever :-P
18:00:02  <Ammler> and you can make new projects
18:00:07  <Ammler> e.g. also for your ai
18:01:39  <MinchinWeb> Ok  cool :)
18:02:04  <Ammler> feel free to play around :-P
18:02:16  <Ammler> with the modules and whatever
18:04:40  <MinchinWeb> so is there a simple way for my town names to show up on the bundles page automatically?
18:05:50  <Ammler> currently just with migrating to our mercurial server
18:06:06  <Ammler> that might change with DevZone2 but not soon to expect :-)
18:07:00  <Ammler> s/:-)/:-(/
18:09:07  <Ammler> MinchinWeb: version in grfid is depreciated
18:09:33  <MinchinWeb> ??
18:10:03  <Ammler> well, you should not change the grfid for version 2 :-P
18:10:24  <Ammler> there are version properities in grf block
18:11:04  <Ammler> did you get that from the nml reference?
18:11:19  <MinchinWeb> I don't remember off hand, but probably
18:12:54  <Ammler> it is easy, one entry at bananas should not change the grfid
18:13:05  <Ammler> not even sure, if that is possible
18:14:06  <MinchinWeb> it is, I did it
18:15:33  <Ammler> yeah, that was required until openttd 1.1 :-)
18:15:46  <Ammler> (relatively required)
18:18:53  <planetmaker> I wonder though whether town name newgrfs can easily become incompatible...
18:19:11  <planetmaker> nothing really wrong, if a town changes name...
18:20:06  <MinchinWeb> is the GRF refrenced when a savegame is loaded? the townnames aren't set directly in the savegame somewhere?
18:20:07  <Ammler> planetmaker: I got quite some issues
18:20:19  <Ammler> at least SwissTowns isn't
18:20:40  <Ammler> mostly openttd using same name multiple times
18:20:58  <planetmaker> ok :-)
18:21:07  <Ammler> but well, no crash
18:21:10  <planetmaker> well. Just up'ing action14 MINV is enough luckily :-)
18:21:17  <Ammler> yes
18:22:36  <MinchinWeb> another question about townnames  - in the NFO spec, I read something to the effect that you could search for combinations and then disallow them
18:22:48  <MinchinWeb> did that get transferred to NML?
18:28:07  <Ammler> talk to alberth, he is around at #openttd
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19:02:45  <Brot6> 32bpp-ez-patches: compile of tip qtip ez.diff qbase still failed (#2446) - qtip ez.diff qbase
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19:04:32  <andythenorth> Yexo: any preference for how to handle removing unwanted tiles from CHIPS?
19:04:52  <andythenorth> wrt savegame breakage
19:06:00  <Brot6> clientpatches: update from r22258 to r22263 done (80792 errors) -
19:07:09  <planetmaker> andythenorth, did you see my reply on that respect?
19:07:25  <andythenorth> oops
19:07:25  <andythenorth> no
19:08:42  <Brot6> serverpatches: compile of r22263 still failed (#2448) -
19:11:19  * andythenorth does ponder in here where it's quieter
19:11:34  <andythenorth> recyclables chain for FIRS...
19:14:42  <Terkhen> hmm... how would that work?
19:16:04  <andythenorth> it's a rethought version of waste chani
19:16:06  <andythenorth> chain /s
19:16:16  <andythenorth> main aim is to provide a new chain around about 1997
19:16:25  <andythenorth> just when my test games start to get boring
19:17:52  <Terkhen> the waste chain was removed before I started playing with FIRS (if it was included at all)
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19:19:06  <planetmaker> in 0.1 or so
19:22:34  <andythenorth_> this idea would re-add the recycling plant (which was planned anyway), and a recycling depot in towns
19:23:00  <andythenorth_> recycling depot -> recyclables cargo -> recycling plant -> some output
19:23:24  <Terkhen> what would determine the production of recycling depots, town population?
19:23:27  <andythenorth_> maybe
19:23:39  <andythenorth_> it could be an interesting variation on other mechanics
19:23:49  <andythenorth_> and towns are interesting sizes by 1990s
19:23:49  <Terkhen> that mechanic could make sense for junk yard too
19:24:10  <andythenorth_> junk yard doesn't try to build in every town
19:24:16  <Terkhen> and also it would have a big impact on metal chains
19:24:27  <Terkhen> so maybe it's better to leave it alone :)
19:24:29  <andythenorth_> and if too much scrap metal is available it distorts gameplay ;)
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19:26:56  <MinchinWeb2> What if you just had a landfill; towns would generate garbage
19:28:35  <MinchinWeb2> You could later (in game years) add a recycling plant, but 20% would still go to the landfill
19:29:03  <MinchinWeb2> Would that avoid the too much scrape metal problem?
19:30:13  <Terkhen> right now scrap metal is fine
19:30:28  <andythenorth_> Terkhen: my main questions are
19:30:33  <andythenorth_> - output cargos at recycling plant
19:30:46  <Terkhen> yes, I was wondering that too
19:30:46  <planetmaker> plastics
19:30:47  <andythenorth_> - how big / how many recycling depots to provide
19:30:55  <planetmaker> and scrap metal :-P
19:31:26  <Terkhen> I was thinking on chemicals
19:31:38  <andythenorth_> I think manufacturing supplies
19:31:42  <andythenorth_> and then either chemicals or scrap
19:31:59  <Terkhen> hmm.... manufacturing supplies makes sense
19:32:28  <planetmaker> I asked before: can one instance of an industry provide cargos A+B and another of the same A+C?
19:32:39  <andythenorth_> yes
19:32:43  <andythenorth_> there's a cb for it
19:32:50  <andythenorth_> generally it's bad behaviour :D
19:32:57  <planetmaker> :-D
19:32:59  <andythenorth_> I dunno what it would do to alberth's chain view :P
19:33:06  <planetmaker> he
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19:42:33  <Lakie> This real expressions thing is confusing... but nice.
19:42:45  <Lakie> regular expresions*
19:45:13  <frosch123> nml now knows regular expression?
19:45:45  <Lakie> na, experimenting with it (with pyton).
19:46:37  <Lakie> hoping it might help with extracting some of the data's I need
19:47:51  <andythenorth_> planetmaker: you think random cargo production from recyclables might be fun?
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19:54:36  <planetmaker> andythenorth_, not sure
19:54:54  <planetmaker> but as long as a single industry does not change it... it might be worth a try
19:55:24  <andythenorth_> could be
19:55:54  <andythenorth_> it would come late in most games, when most chains are already connected
19:56:09  <andythenorth_> so it's not too disruptive in a bad way
19:57:14  <planetmaker> well, as long as an existing industry is constant in what it does... it probably is not too hurtful, if different instances of it produce different things
19:57:34  <planetmaker> or alternatively: random output decided upon map generation ;-)
19:57:47  <planetmaker> so within one game the same. but different for different maps.
19:57:52  <planetmaker> but probably that is annoying
19:59:43  * andythenorth_ looks at FIRS 0.6.3 tickets with a sad face 
19:59:45  <andythenorth_>
20:00:00  <andythenorth_> so dull :(
20:09:51  <planetmaker> ogfx+trains 0.2.3 was similarily dull
20:10:50  * andythenorth_ sets ruinous price for primary industry construction :P
20:11:12  <planetmaker> it's already that way
20:11:27  <planetmaker> 10M is a lot
20:11:42  <andythenorth_> it's an...interesting...amount :D
20:11:49  <andythenorth_> it's the same as before
20:12:09  <andythenorth_> I just hadn't realised how expensive it was with prospecting off ;)
20:12:55  <Brot6> FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Revision 1868:03068028aa93: Fix: reset base costs to default for ... (andythenorth) @
20:13:50  <Brot6> FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Bug #2449 (Closed): High cost for building new towns and buildings (andythenorth) @
20:14:49  <Brot6> FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Bug #2355: Primary industries close even if serviced (andythenorth) @
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20:25:56  <planetmaker> time to be boring: good night for today
20:26:28  <Lakie> night planetmaker
20:52:21  <Brot6> FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Revision 1869:bba91356cea3: Fix: don't use templated action 2/3 c... (andythenorth) @
20:52:21  <Brot6> FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Bug #2355 (Closed): Primary industries close even if serviced (andythenorth) @
21:00:22  <Brot6> FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Bug #2338: Unexpected production changes (andythenorth) @
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23:06:49  <Brot6> DictatorAI - Revision 104:7dad2e9b1c7f: - Re-add a safe start, so if we can, we try to build (now... (krinn) @
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