Log for #openttdcoop.devzone on 21st March 2011:
Times are UTC Toggle Colours
00:01:12  <Brot6> NewGRF Meta Language - Feature Request #2351: building of win32 executable for nml (Ammler) @
00:22:40  <supermop> is there any plans on the horizon for station support in nml?
00:43:32  *** thgergo has quit IRC
00:53:45  *** KenjiE20 has quit IRC
05:49:52  *** supermop has quit IRC
10:39:20  *** andythenorth has joined #openttdcoop.devzone
10:40:03  *** andythenorth has left #openttdcoop.devzone
11:31:40  *** KenjiE20 has joined #openttdcoop.devzone
11:46:31  <planetmaker> Ammler, what exactly is the point of the wine4nml repo?
11:48:57  <planetmaker> shouldn't the build procedure for nml-exe be part of the nml repo?
11:49:30  <Yexo> that repo holds a lot of files that normally come with wine, along with an installation of python and the other required packages
11:49:37  <Yexo> those definitely don't belong in the nml repo
11:53:45  <planetmaker> hm, ok
11:55:45  <planetmaker> so that repo basically is not a repo meant for use anywhere else but in the CF
11:55:59  <planetmaker> as a tool
11:58:54  <planetmaker> hm, I see :-)
12:00:57  *** welshdragon has quit IRC
12:01:24  *** welshdragon has joined #openttdcoop.devzone
13:04:14  *** thgergo has joined #openttdcoop.devzone
14:23:36  *** Lakie has joined #openttdcoop.devzone
14:55:13  *** ODM has joined #openttdcoop.devzone
15:12:15  <Brot6> 2cc train set - Feature #56: rework region availability parameter (DJNekkid) @
15:25:53  <Brot6> 2cc train set - Feature #56: rework region availability parameter (Ammler) @
15:36:56  <planetmaker> Ammler, ^ Suchbild?
15:37:29  <Ammler> planetmaker: ?
15:37:58  <planetmaker> "does it need words?"
15:38:20  <planetmaker> lovely description...
15:38:25  <Ammler> ah ok :-D
15:39:36  <Ammler> hmm, it is not clear, that the screens are made in same game
15:42:01  <planetmaker> Ammler, what about a 'proper' error description? An image does not replace the necessity of a description. It may illustrate a few points, though
15:42:06  <planetmaker> I thought you knew...
15:44:15  <Ammler> thanks :-)
15:44:24  <Ammler> there is an error?
15:44:51  <Ammler> I see no error, it just should prove djn wrong
15:48:09  <planetmaker> yes, there even is an error ;-) In the parameter descriptions. Off by one
15:50:41  <Ammler> would be out of place there
15:52:12  <Ammler> ah, got it
16:04:27  <Ammler> the description is obsolete anyway
16:04:57  <Lakie> This ok for you planetmaker?
16:05:39  <Brot6> Example NewGRF Project - Bug #2454 (New): Dependancy build: relative file paths. (Lakie) @
16:11:21  <Lakie> (as a bug report)...
16:13:10  <Ammler> hmm, we should test both with building
16:14:44  <planetmaker> looks quite fine, Lakie :-)
16:14:59  <planetmaker> I agree with your assessment that modifying the is the nicer approach
16:15:10  <planetmaker> (if my quick read grasped that correctly)
16:15:48  <Ammler> planetmaker: what is needed to use
16:17:11  <planetmaker> in what way? nothing special
16:17:45  <planetmaker> it's a python script; but if you run hg, that usually is no problem
16:17:51  <Ammler> well, maybe it would be nice to add it to the build check
16:18:08  <Ammler>
16:18:19  <planetmaker> it's being used afaik
16:19:01  <Ammler>
16:19:21  <Ammler> how you see?
16:20:28  <planetmaker> you usually don't. I need to check, but I *think* it's responsible for
16:20:30  <planetmaker> [DEP] mynewgrf.src.dep
16:20:30  <planetmaker> [DEP] mynewgrf.gfx.dep
16:20:30  <planetmaker> [DEP] Makefile.dep
16:21:24  <Ammler> yes, but don't both scripts make those files?
16:22:00  <Ammler> maybe that should be more verbose
16:22:23  <Ammler> hmm, I should use _V=
16:22:57  <planetmaker> that might be good for this test script, yes
16:23:28  <Ammler> also a target nfo or variable nfo for nml would be nice
16:24:15  <Ammler> I added NML_FLAGS="--nfo %{name}.nfo", looks a bit ugly :-)
16:26:11  <planetmaker> :-)
16:26:19  <Ammler> so if only "[DEP] Makefile.dep", it means gcc is used, else, right?
16:27:50  <planetmaker> hm, no. gcc or mdep can be used. It depends on DEP_CHECK_TYPE
16:27:52  <Ammler> it uses for newgrf_example, because python is installed for nml
16:28:12  <Ammler> ah, I thought, you check if python is available
16:28:24  <Ammler> and use if possible
16:28:35  <planetmaker> well, yes, I do ;-)
16:28:43  <planetmaker> DEP_CHECK_TYPE     ?=$(shell [ `which python 2>/dev/null` ] && [ -z $(USE_NML) ] && echo "mdep" || echo "normal")
16:28:44  <Ammler> so what now?
16:29:27  <planetmaker> but irrespective of dep_check_type the printed dep messages look the same
16:29:34  <planetmaker> unless you use _V=
16:29:46  <planetmaker> where you see the actual commands being called
16:29:54  <Ammler> well, firs does not have .gfx. and .src.
16:30:08  <Ammler> that is why I assumed it that way
16:30:31  <planetmaker> maybe it has an old makefile... dunno
16:30:38  <planetmaker> hm...
16:31:01  <planetmaker> doesn't seem like
16:31:41  <Ammler> oh, we should also publish nfo and nml there
16:31:54  <Ammler> [NFORENUM] mynewgrf.nfo
16:31:55  <Ammler> Warning on sprite 1 (level 1).
16:33:05  <Lakie> I think it just generates a .src.dep these days?
16:33:09  <Lakie> Based off my repo
16:33:55  <Ammler> Lakie: I consider newgrf_makefile using quite a recent newgrf framework :-)
16:34:13  <Ammler> yes, for nfo, just src
16:35:52  <Lakie> Heh, ok
16:39:13  <planetmaker> Ammler, that warning is probably a missing action14
16:39:18  <planetmaker> no palette defined
16:39:31  <Lakie> Probably if you are using a newer nforenum
16:39:32  <planetmaker> I'm not sure I should do that within that repo, though
16:39:45  <planetmaker> tip ;-)
16:39:53  <planetmaker> but 5.1 will do so, too
16:40:11  <Brot6> Example NewGRF Project - Revision 265:a193c1ffdb29: Change: publish produced test nfo/nml files (Ammler) @
16:46:32  *** frosch123 has joined #openttdcoop.devzone
16:57:01  <Brot6> 2cc train set - Feature #56: rework region availability parameter (Voyager1) @
17:10:53  <Brot6> nml: update from r1297 to r1298 done -
17:13:23  <Ammler> \o/
17:13:38  <planetmaker> \o/ :-)
17:13:52  <Yexo> :)
17:13:53  <Webster> Title: Transport Tycoon Forums View topic - NML - a Newgrf Meta Language (at
17:13:55  <Yexo> thanks Ammler :)
17:14:59  <Ammler> Yexo: you were fast :-P
17:15:28  <Ammler> well, I am a bit suprised how portable .wine is
17:15:50  <Ammler> moved from suse 11.4 32 to suse 11.3 64
17:16:36  <Ammler> I assume there is no wine64
17:17:08  <planetmaker> you can move the openttd.cfg as well ;-)
17:17:36  <Ammler> well, you can move all openttd data except the bin
17:19:26  <Brot6> firs: update from r1874 to r1878 done -
17:19:53  <Brot6> newgrf_makefile: update from r264 to r265 done -
17:20:01  <Ammler> Missing modules:
17:20:01  <Brot6> Following repos didn't need a nightlies update: 2cctrainset (r750), 32bpp-extra (r39), ai-admiralai (r75), ai-aroai (r11), ailib-common (r21), ailib-direction (r17), ailib-list (r32), ailib-string (r29), ailib-tile (r16), airportsplus (r73), basecosts (r22), belarusiantowns (r8), bros (r52), chips (r82), comic-houses (r71), fish (r617), frenchtowns (r6), grfcodec (r828), heqs (r580), indonesiantowns (r41), manindu (r7), metrotrackset
17:20:01  <Brot6> (r56), narvs (r29), nml (r1298), nutracks (r179), ogfx-industries (r12), ogfx-landscape (r58), ogfx-rv (r80), ogfx-trains (r234), ogfx-trees (r42), opengfx (r618), openmsx (r97), opensfx (r97), smts (r19), snowlinemod (r49), spanishtowns (r10), swedishrails (r198), swisstowns (r22), transrapidtrackset (r15), ttdviewer (r26), ttrs (r36), worldairlinersset (r671)
17:20:02  <Ammler> ? ICCProfile imported from PngImagePlugin
17:20:04  <Ammler> ? nml.__version__ imported from nml.version_info
17:20:06  <Ammler> Yexo: ^
17:21:38  <Ammler> planetmaker: yes, it is the palette
17:22:11  <Brot6> ogfx-landscape: rebuild of r58 done (Diffsize: 7) (DiffDiffsize: 7) -
17:22:15  <planetmaker> though... could be added. In an example action14
17:22:23  <planetmaker> hm.... diffsize7?
17:23:16  <Brot6> swedishrails: rebuild of r198 done (Diffsize: 7) (DiffDiffsize: 7) -
17:23:29  <Brot6> Following repos rebuilds successful without any difference to earlier nightlies builds: airportsplus (Diffsize: 1), belarusiantowns (Diffsize: 30), frenchtowns, indonesiantowns (1 errors) (Diffsize: 1), manindu (Diffsize: 1), narvs (Diffsize: 1), ogfx-industries (Diffsize: 1), ogfx-rv (Diffsize: 1), ogfx-trains (Diffsize: 1), spanishtowns (Diffsize: 1), swisstowns (Diffsize: 156)
17:24:08  <Ammler> we have no nfo with the older version so don't see why it differs
17:24:25  <Ammler> but we will see in the future :-)
17:24:25  <planetmaker> hm, right
17:24:27  <planetmaker> :-)
17:38:28  <Ammler> (the diffdiff is because I added nfo)
18:09:06  <Ammler> planetmaker: why do we use tar.gz for the source bundles
18:09:15  <Ammler> windows can't extract those
18:09:27  <planetmaker> can't they?
18:09:36  <Ammler> zip only
18:10:09  <Ammler> looking for 7zip :-)
18:10:22  <planetmaker> well, we could use zip as well.
18:10:42  <planetmaker> I don't really mind. The only reason to use .tar.gz is that many source repos are in .tar.gz
18:10:58  <planetmaker> otherwise it's... a random choice
18:11:37  <planetmaker> and I always used the total commander - which can handle tars and gzip transparently even
18:12:38  <Ammler> I have here windows vm (xp) without any additional tool installed
18:12:53  <Ammler> was wondering about nmlc.exe
18:13:47  <planetmaker> yeah, might be sensible to use zip there, too
18:13:50  <planetmaker> for sources
18:13:58  <Ammler> not too
18:14:01  <Ammler> either
18:14:06  <planetmaker> both?
18:14:19  <Ammler> either tar.gz or zip
18:14:39  <Ammler> well, nobody complained about missing zip
18:15:08  <planetmaker> I'd wonder. Look at the downloads for the nightly versions of newgrfs. Who would then want the source? Without repo access?
18:15:14  <Ammler> I assume, if you use windows, you install around 1000 tools for all over world :-)
18:15:21  <planetmaker> :-)
18:15:34  <Ammler> poor guys :-P
18:15:34  <planetmaker> on linux, too. But most ship with the default install
18:15:39  <planetmaker> :-) yep
18:15:59  <planetmaker> windoze is clearly missing on a package manager
18:16:03  <Ammler> currently I have maybe 5 tools installed not from suse
18:16:21  <Ammler> the most important is the nvidia driver
18:16:49  <Ammler> that is quite crap right now
18:21:07  <Terkhen> the zip extractor that comes with windows is quite bad, but sadly it's the only format supported without external tools
18:21:10  <Terkhen> hello also :)
18:21:36  <planetmaker> hello :-)
18:21:42  <Ammler> I assume, install 7zip is one of first step on fresh windows
18:22:14  <Ammler> next step is replacing editor
18:22:50  <Rubidium> sorry, but the first 10 steps are running windows update (repeatedly, until all is installed)
18:23:03  <Ammler> indeed, lol :-D
18:23:38  <Ammler> well I used to use update packs at that time
18:24:57  <Ammler> stupid me, download source of ogfx-trains and building doesn't work
18:25:12  <Ammler> I need a nml without make requirement :-)
18:28:11  <Ammler> lol
18:28:26  <Ammler> Michin has the grf in his source package but no nml
18:32:05  <Ammler> awesome, nmlc.exe works without python and all that
18:32:29  <Ammler> is there a nml with graphics but without need of gcc?
18:32:59  <planetmaker> hu?
18:33:15  <Ammler> a nml project with graphics?
18:33:56  <planetmaker> in regression
18:34:21  <Ammler> oh
18:37:45  <Ammler> got an error
18:38:18  <Ammler> Error:      (IOError) "cannot identify image file".
18:38:19  <Ammler> Command:    ['..\..\nml-r1298-windows-win32\nmlc.exe', '006_vehicle.nml']
18:38:20  <Ammler> Location:   File "C:\Python27\lib\site-packages\PIL\", line 1980, in op
18:44:54  <Brot6> MinchinWeb's Random Town Names - Revision 28: [Minchin Town Names] Fixed 'Lake blah Lake' and 'Hi... ( @
19:03:21  <Brot6> 32bpp-ez-patches: compile of tip qtip ez.diff qbase still failed (#2446) - qtip ez.diff qbase
19:06:38  <Brot6> clientpatches: update from r22265 to r22268 done (80815 errors) -
19:06:57  <planetmaker> loool
19:08:29  * Lakie wonders if its better to version the lang script he's working on independantly of the main repo. hmm.
19:09:18  <Brot6> serverpatches: compile of r22268 still failed (#2448) -
19:10:19  <Terkhen> more errors than revisions? :)
19:12:58  <Lakie> No?
19:14:35  <Ammler> couldn't it be part of the newgrf framwork?
19:14:49  <Lakie> Probably
19:15:23  <Terkhen> wouldn't that conflict with existing newgrfs like FIRS?
19:15:28  <Terkhen> although it could be desirable to adapt FIRS system to the new one
19:16:03  <Ammler> but the firs script isn't in newgrf framework, afaik
19:16:13  *** andythenorth has joined #openttdcoop.devzone
19:17:15  <Lakie> Maybe, we'll see how it works with just my repo first. :)
19:19:38  <Lakie> And then if anyone else wants to use it or if they prefer firs system, etc? :)
19:26:16  <Terkhen> I'm interested in checking it, but I'm not sure if it will be possible to adapt FIRS to the new system without changing how strings work on it, and that's something that andy will probably not like much :)
19:26:36  <andythenorth> what is the new system?
19:29:49  <Lakie> 'tis a python script I've been working on to use lang files
19:30:56  <andythenorth> hmm
19:31:07  <andythenorth> migrating FIRS lang is probably scriptable if we wanted to
19:31:29  <Terkhen> yes, right now it is just a bunch of defines
19:37:07  <planetmaker> hm, that very much sounds like a thing which c/should go in the newgrf framework
19:46:26  <andythenorth> what would be improved by the new method?
19:46:52  <planetmaker> the way things can be translated
19:47:06  <planetmaker> very similar language format as OpenTTD
19:47:20  <Ammler> using openttd webtranslator :-)
19:47:26  <planetmaker> iirc ^ :-)
19:47:35  <andythenorth> currently adding translations is quite an easy task
19:47:40  <andythenorth> but adding a new string is not
19:48:05  <planetmaker> Lakie, may know more ;-)
19:48:13  * Lakie thinks he should draw out his plans so peeps can comment
19:48:32  <andythenorth> hmm
19:48:37  <planetmaker> :-) Well, you can add and improve now in the makefile framework's repo ;-)
19:48:38  <Lakie> Depends on the string types to be honest though, andythenorth, extras are kind of handled messily for me.
19:48:45  <andythenorth> we could go to hot metal with it in CHIPS
19:48:51  <Lakie> ie. it handles ids and puts defines in a
19:48:58  <andythenorth> CHIPS has the stubs for a translation framework, but nothing else
19:49:37  <Lakie> So I use things like RTN_<name> and STR_<name> for most D400 texts in my nfo, 'cause that suited me
19:50:25  <Lakie> Which is why I'm unsure if others will find it as useful as its built around my preferences. :)
19:50:47  <planetmaker> Lakie, have one guess around which preferences the makefile(s) are built :-P
19:50:57  <Lakie> yourself and Ammler?
19:51:34  <planetmaker> ;-) among a few others who use it, yes :-)
19:52:07  <planetmaker> point is: one has to make decisions. So... one does it the way one thinks works best.
19:52:15  <planetmaker> which comes from ones own expertise
19:52:20  <planetmaker> and experience
19:53:00  <planetmaker> anyhow... dinner :-)
19:53:12  <Lakie> Heh
19:53:29  <Lakie> I think andythenorth has more experience than me these days. :)
19:53:41  <andythenorth> with babies probably :P
19:54:40  <Lakie> Heh, been quite some time since I did nfo programming, well non-object anyway
20:03:43  <Lakie> Don't really understand how industries or cargos work though, so you'd have to explain that to me, the id of those strings needs to stay the same from memory, andythenorth?
20:03:56  <Lakie> (The D800 string)
20:04:09  <andythenorth> think so
20:04:14  <andythenorth> I'm not much good with strings
20:04:18  <andythenorth> other people wrote them
20:04:23  <andythenorth> I just...use them :P
20:04:25  <Lakie> Hehe
20:04:46  <andythenorth> the most I've learnt is that changing them and reloading the grf is a prime cause of openttd crashes
20:04:56  <Lakie> Ouch
20:11:36  * Lakie is glad objects and vehicles are more forgiving (generally)
20:12:21  <Lakie> Oh, did Pikka's suggestion work, btw?
20:19:02  *** supermop has joined #openttdcoop.devzone
20:20:25  <andythenorth> wrt to fishing harbour?
20:20:28  <andythenorth> near enough
20:20:37  <andythenorth> it was identical to that from frosch
20:20:38  <Lakie> Cool
20:20:48  <andythenorth> there are edge cases which may be hard to solve
20:23:07  <Lakie> Like river rapids?
20:24:08  <andythenorth> yes
20:24:25  <andythenorth> unless tile bits are exposed to newgrf wrt river / sea / canal
20:24:34  <andythenorth> in which case it gets very much easier
20:25:09  <andythenorth>
20:25:10  <Webster> Title: Transport Tycoon Forums View topic - Placing an industry on coast (at
20:26:06  <Lakie> I suppose one could change the results
20:27:03  <Lakie> One could try using either: 2 checks, one for the ground
20:27:05  <Lakie> and one for the raised bits?
20:27:18  <Lakie> the ground checking tile height == 0
20:27:34  <Lakie> the slopes ones not caring, doesn't solve river rapids though
20:29:57  <andythenorth> river rapids is insolvable for now
20:30:01  <andythenorth> but rivers are rare
20:30:07  * andythenorth to the pub
20:30:11  <andythenorth> back tomorrow
20:30:17  *** andythenorth has quit IRC
21:24:03  <Brot6> NewGRF Meta Language - Feature Request #2351: building of win32 executable for nml (Ammler) @
21:24:44  <Brot6> NewGRF Meta Language - Feature Request #2351: building of win32 executable for nml (Ammler) @
21:34:27  *** LordAro has joined #openttdcoop.devzone
21:36:19  <LordAro> Ammler/whoever: would this work?
21:40:39  <LordAro> nevermind, i've committed it, lets find out! :)
21:41:29  <Brot6> AroAI - Revision 19:f76fa2063632: Change: Add the '96' from the old versioning system 'higher up'... (LordAro) @
21:42:28  <LordAro> heh, notice that all the other commits were 2 weeks ago...
21:44:36  <LordAro> it's fun talking to yourself... :)
21:44:43  <LordAro> anyway, g2g
21:44:50  *** LordAro has left #openttdcoop.devzone
21:52:07  *** frosch123 has quit IRC
22:40:33  *** ODM has quit IRC
23:20:48  *** thgergo has quit IRC

Powered by YARRSTE version: svn-trunk