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Log for #openttdcoop.devzone on 2nd April 2011:
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06:45:53  <andythenorth> Yexo: non-track tiles look good
06:47:32  <planetmaker> moin
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07:15:06  <andythenorth> planetmaker: I have a nice 'start the day' task
07:15:07  <andythenorth> http://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/2419
07:15:25  <andythenorth> probably an action 7 to skip sprites I guess
07:27:40  <planetmaker> dock?
07:27:42  <planetmaker> that's not an industry is it?
07:31:05  <andythenorth> nope
07:31:11  <andythenorth> it's a dick
07:31:17  <andythenorth> dock /s :|
07:31:43  <andythenorth> CHIPS now includes a dock replacement
07:31:55  <andythenorth> I thought I should offer the option to disable it
07:31:59  <andythenorth> maybe it can wait
07:32:01  <planetmaker> oh, it's chips :-P I thought it was FIRS
07:32:12  <andythenorth> maybe I see if anyone requests it
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09:23:44  <andythenorth> quak
09:23:58  <frosch123> moin
09:24:37  <andythenorth> planetmaker: you think CHIPS should have its own menu entry?
09:24:50  <planetmaker> sure
09:24:53  <andythenorth> hmm
09:24:55  <andythenorth> I am lazy
09:25:05  <andythenorth> I don't want to switch between station menus
09:25:15  <andythenorth> that means CHIPS needs to re-implement the default station
09:25:22  <planetmaker> IMHO it's bad style to throw in all kind of stuff in the default stations
09:25:35  <planetmaker> and why does it need to re-implement them?
09:25:51  <andythenorth> because I don't want to switch station menus
09:26:10  <planetmaker> oh, boy, c'mon. That's the worst excuse I've heart in this field
09:26:52  * andythenorth is known to be lazy
09:27:11  <planetmaker> personally I either build the default stations without selection at all. Then it doesn't matter where yours are, I would not select them anyway
09:27:29  <planetmaker> Or I build an eye candy station. Then I actually care a lot about a good order in the stations menu
09:28:03  <andythenorth> it won't do any harm to re-implement the default
09:28:08  <andythenorth> it can have buffers added
09:28:14  <andythenorth> also...is brot sulking ?
09:28:21  <planetmaker> it's stupid to re-implement them.
09:28:34  <andythenorth> why?
09:28:57  <planetmaker> Unneeded work?
09:29:09  <planetmaker> the question "hu? Isn't this the same?"
09:29:14  <andythenorth> hmm
09:29:18  <andythenorth> second point is valid
09:29:32  <andythenorth> I always planned to add buffers to them somehow
09:29:40  <planetmaker> And the question of which "default": OpenGFX or TTD
09:30:01  <planetmaker> (IMHO stations is where OpenGFX is at least a factor 10 better than TTD
09:30:03  <planetmaker> )
09:30:43  <andythenorth> planetmaker: using base set sprites of course ;)
09:31:01  <planetmaker> You'd need to distinguish rail / monorail / maglev and you'd possibly need to mind that
09:31:16  <planetmaker> in ttd they all look the same
09:31:33  <andythenorth> hmm
09:31:41  <andythenorth> that reminds me of an unsolved CHIPS problem
09:31:43  <planetmaker> just telling ;-)
09:32:28  <planetmaker> but as it works in opengfx, it should also - in principle - be different sprites in ttd. But just not visible
09:32:45  <planetmaker> so reverse like what you said about the ground tile with tracks
09:35:12  <planetmaker> so, yes, it should work to 'just' use ttd sprites. But I'd only do that if it really offers something new, like buffers.
09:35:20  <andythenorth> hmm
09:35:27  <andythenorth> CHIPS is very broken for maglev / monorail
09:36:11  * planetmaker pulls, compiles, installs and tests
09:38:40  <planetmaker> btw, what I always wondered: is the buffer supposed to have an action colour blinking light?
09:38:47  <planetmaker> I find that somewhat irritating
09:40:58  <planetmaker> hm... on what basis are placed on plain tiles the houses, cars and cranes?
09:43:41  <planetmaker> just tile-randomly with a min. size requirement for the build area for cranes and houses?
09:45:59  <andythenorth> planetmaker: not sure how yexo has done the random.  But it looks ok to me
09:46:10  <andythenorth> the blinking light - very annoying, or just a little?
09:46:24  <planetmaker> It doesn't fit at all IMHO (sorry)
09:46:32  <andythenorth> the blinking?
09:46:35  <planetmaker> yes
09:46:48  <andythenorth> I don't mind conceding that one :)
09:47:52  <planetmaker> I understand red light. But blinking means (in the signaling system I know) just a "expect to stop at the next main signal"
09:48:11  <planetmaker> which is then clearly too late at that stage :-P
09:48:47  <andythenorth> do the buffers even work?
09:50:30  <planetmaker> afaik yes
09:50:39  <planetmaker> or what do you mean with 'work'?
09:50:52  <andythenorth> look ok
09:51:06  <andythenorth> or do they look bad
09:51:17  <planetmaker> http://imagebin.org/146240
09:51:18  <Webster> Title: Imagebin - A place to slap up your images. (at imagebin.org)
09:52:09  <planetmaker> real buffers require more space. But in order to autoplace them without resorting to non-track tiles that's what one can do. and IMHO it's very nice
09:52:48  <andythenorth> I don't mind that trains run over them
09:53:10  <planetmaker> oh, I guess, trains could, indeed
09:53:26  <planetmaker> I never built a station where that was possible, though ;-)
09:54:37  <andythenorth> some ukrs 2 vehicles extend beyond the end of stations
09:54:45  <andythenorth> it seems to be a known issue with sprite sorting
09:54:55  <andythenorth> so they look odd wrt buffers
09:55:01  <planetmaker> hm, no, trains can't drive over them
09:55:12  <planetmaker> they work correctly. Everything else is a problem of trainsets
09:55:15  <andythenorth> no, it's more that they drive right up to them on the same tile
09:55:28  <andythenorth> solved by don't use 'far end' in orders :P
09:55:47  <planetmaker> well. Usually trains in my cases are exactly as long as stations
09:56:00  <planetmaker> so it doesn't make a difference at all
09:58:02  * andythenorth should draw some PAX facilities
09:58:09  <andythenorth> used when cheating into town
09:59:04  <planetmaker> some request you'll surely get: to place the houses, cranes, forklifts and vehicles specifically
09:59:14  <planetmaker> and I can even somewhat understand that
09:59:25  <andythenorth> if the request comes, we might address it
09:59:32  <andythenorth> I'm not a big fan of random really
09:59:40  <andythenorth> I'd prefer a predictable pattern in some ways
09:59:42  <planetmaker> you might actually want to introduce two chips station classes: chips (automatic) and chips (tiles)
09:59:50  <andythenorth> possibly yes
09:59:51  <planetmaker> currently it's not predictable at all
10:00:36  <andythenorth> lets see what Yexo thinks when he arrives :)
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11:33:12  <andythenorth> planetmaker: http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/chips/repository/revisions/e2c5bc32efbb
11:35:06  <planetmaker> :-) And now off for BBQ. Enjoy the day
11:35:16  <andythenorth> enjoy
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15:40:10  <Brot6> OpenGFX - Code Review #2119: New Sprites for Guru X2 Helicopter (DanMacK) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/2119#change-6435
15:43:24  <Brot6> OpenGFX - Code Review #2107: New Darwin 300 Sprites (DanMacK) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/2107#change-6437
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17:23:54  <Yexo> andythenorth: I'm here, about what did you want my opinion?
17:27:06  <Yexo> planetmaker: a station tile has only 4 random bits, so some concessions have to be made
17:27:32  <Yexo> currently 2 random bits are used to decide whether or not to draw some building (1/4 tiles has a building)
17:28:08  <Yexo> the type of building depends on some 'semi-random' bits computed from the position of the tile in the station
17:28:31  <Yexo> for all building types there are 4 variants, the remaining 2 random bits are used to chose between those variants
17:38:25  <andythenorth> Yexo: I think it works well at the moment
17:38:45  <andythenorth> the alternative is that it's just a completely fixed pattern...?
17:39:44  <planetmaker> Yexo: yes, I'm aware of that limitation. And I see no immediate problem which needs fixing. Actually I think it works very well.
17:40:25  <andythenorth> Yexo: I wouldn't object to a fixed pattern, but as you've put work into this...and it works...
17:40:29  <planetmaker> What I'd like to see (additionally) is the possibility to select the single tiles (blank, with crane, with fork lift,...) as well and dedicatedly. Probably in its separate entry in the station list
17:41:37  <andythenorth> I do find it slightly disturbing that adding another tile to the station causes it to entirely rebuild :D
17:41:58  <andythenorth> along the NE edge at least
17:42:05  <andythenorth> and the NW
17:55:14  <Brot6> CHIPS Station Set - Revision 106:87a54d42b6ee: Feature: use cc for cranes etc on station tiles (andythenorth) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/chips/repository/revisions/87a54d42b6ee
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19:58:50  <Yexo> <andythenorth> I do find it slightly disturbing that adding another tile to the station causes it to entirely rebuild :D <- I do agree
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22:16:06  <Brot6> CHIPS Station Set - Revision 107:f0820c5c2253: Change: dock uses blue crane (company colour, but ... (andythenorth) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/chips/repository/revisions/f0820c5c2253
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