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00:52:33 *** KenjiE20 has quit IRC 01:36:12 *** Lakie has quit IRC 05:26:05 <Brot6> NewGRF Meta Language - Revision 1354:b289cf7c8817: Doc: engine_override command (planetmaker) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/nml/repository/revisions/b289cf7c8817 05:54:32 *** ODM has joined #openttdcoop.devzone 06:22:12 <Brot6> NewGRF Meta Language - Feature Request #2332: Engine overrides (action0 feature 8 prop 11) (planetmaker) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/2332#change-6753 06:29:29 <Brot6> NewGRF Meta Language - Feature #2652 (New): Handling / usage of action2 ids (planetmaker) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/2652 06:43:09 <Brot6> OpenGFX+ Airports - Bug #2653 (Confirmed): Building of small airport (planetmaker) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/2653 07:15:47 <Brot6> OpenGFX+ Trains - Bug #2654 (New): container colours upon train reversal (planetmaker) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/2654 07:24:23 *** ODM has quit IRC 07:35:26 <Brot6> OpenGFX+ Airports - Revision 76:5bc91ea4aedd: Change: Ignore more of the automatically generated ... (planetmaker) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/airportsplus/repository/revisions/5bc91ea4aedd 11:04:32 *** ODM has joined #openttdcoop.devzone 11:11:45 *** KenjiE20 has joined #openttdcoop.devzone 12:05:23 <Brot6> OpenGFX+ Airports - Revision 77:b573f63e80a0: Fix: Missing space in the NewGRF name in the title (planetmaker) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/airportsplus/repository/revisions/b573f63e80a0 14:03:10 <planetmaker> hm... I wonder. I think we should probably release a new version of OpenGFX... much has changed, and upcoming changes might be slower 14:05:51 <Ammler> I think, if you think about that is enough reason to do so :-) 14:06:29 <Ammler> and it would fit your plan to release with openttd 14:08:42 <planetmaker> quite true. The changelog is at least as long as the last... and the changes at least as big ;-) 14:10:24 <Ammler> well, at least there is a nice new feature 14:10:32 <Ammler> not just bug fixes 14:10:37 <planetmaker> two :-) 14:10:56 <Ammler> water and trees 14:11:11 <planetmaker> and factory / steel mill invisibility view 14:11:13 <Terkhen> those two are big improvement, yes :) 14:11:42 <Ammler> planetmaker: was going crazy with gimp 14:12:13 <planetmaker> yeah... I'm not planning to unlearn what I learnt about using gimp ;-) 14:13:24 <Ammler> shouldn't froix commit his improvements to ogfx trees to ogfx directly now? 14:14:21 <Ammler> maybe he would help in other places too then :-) 14:14:27 *** Lakie has joined #openttdcoop.devzone 14:14:36 <planetmaker> I'll try to talk to him 14:14:49 <planetmaker> the recent commits are the 'reply' to me asking ;-) 14:15:22 <planetmaker> Hm... are the shores a fix? 14:15:39 <Terkhen> were they considered broken before? 14:15:43 <planetmaker> yes 14:15:48 <Terkhen> then it is a fix :P 14:15:53 <planetmaker> at least by me ;-) 14:16:12 <Ammler> not a fix 14:16:27 <Ammler> just not supported 14:16:36 <Ammler> so you had to change it 14:16:57 <planetmaker> http://www.tt-forums.net/download/file.php?id=144797 <-- that shows where it is a fix. there where there are the V - shaped tiles 14:17:20 <planetmaker> there the shore is non-continuous 14:17:53 <planetmaker> that's now much better disguised ;-) 14:18:07 <planetmaker> and was the whole reason why I started to modify shores 14:18:41 <planetmaker> also in some other water corners it looks non-continuous 14:19:18 <Ammler> as said, not supported 14:19:32 <planetmaker> yes, but a base set has to follow the programme it serves 14:19:59 <Ammler> hehe 14:20:03 <planetmaker> http://paste.openttdcoop.org/show/218/ <-- current changelog 14:20:32 <Ammler> well, I don't care 14:20:51 <Ammler> but "fix" makes it uncool 14:20:58 <planetmaker> I agree. 14:21:21 <Ammler> and you didn't just fix it, you made it nicer 14:21:23 <Ammler> (imo) 14:22:02 <planetmaker> :-) Operation successful then ;-) 14:22:32 <planetmaker> Well. Feature / Fix it is then ;-) 14:23:41 <planetmaker> but I guess I won't have time tonight to do the release. But yes :-) 14:26:17 <planetmaker> http://paste.openttdcoop.org/show/219/ :-) 14:27:48 <Ammler> you are the only one left to make a release :-) 14:28:03 <Ammler> well, except Rubi 14:28:20 <planetmaker> why? 14:28:26 <Ammler> who else? 14:28:29 <planetmaker> you? 14:28:36 <Ammler> nah, no access :-) 14:28:40 <Ammler> but that is ok 14:28:42 <planetmaker> :-( 14:28:50 <planetmaker> what do you mean with 'no access'? 14:29:04 <Ammler> opengfx is a special bananas account 14:29:18 <Ammler> why don't you release now? 14:30:10 <planetmaker> I'd need to test it briefly ingame :-) 14:30:42 <Ammler> I would let the user test it :-P 14:30:52 <Ammler> you see, better you make the release ;-) 14:31:12 <planetmaker> nah, not for a sprite error. But correct naming and principle workings 14:47:53 <Lakie> Sounds like I'll have to update makefile in my repo sometime. 14:48:05 <Ammler> well, I would be ready to release the release fix release :-P 14:49:37 <planetmaker> what's wrong with yours, Lakie ? 14:50:04 <Lakie> Nothing, just a few features added which could be useful 14:50:47 <planetmaker> hehe :-) 14:51:19 *** KenjiE20 has quit IRC 14:51:29 <planetmaker> Lakie, it *should* be easy to update: http://bundles.openttdcoop.org/newgrf_makefile/nightlies/LATEST/ <-- grab the update bundle and copy it over the existing project 14:51:43 <planetmaker> it should not break anything nor overwrite any config stuff 14:51:51 <Lakie> Has it fixed the issue where if I say changed mygrf.pnfo to reference a new .pnfo file, it needed a full rebuild. 14:51:53 <planetmaker> But you might need to adjust config in some cases 14:52:23 <Lakie> Ok, I'll give it a go in a bit. :) 14:52:59 <planetmaker> though without config adjustment nothing *should* break, but... I'm never too sure ;-) 14:57:43 *** KenjiE20 has joined #openttdcoop.devzone 15:00:53 *** frosch123 has joined #openttdcoop.devzone 16:45:56 <Lakie> Hmm... it no longer auto inserts the nfoheader. 16:58:33 <Lakie> planetmaker, I'm pretty sure you'll want an ifdef around makefile.common line 12. 16:58:49 <Lakie> Otherwise projects not using the gimp script will hang on clean 17:01:26 <Brot6> FISH - Revision 645:554033be3851: Add: graphics for canal boat 1 (andythenorth) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/fish/repository/revisions/554033be3851 17:03:57 <planetmaker> Lakie, : for name in `cat $(GRAPHICS_SOURCE_LIST_FILE) | grep -v '^#' | $(A... ? 17:04:06 <Lakie> aye 17:04:19 <Brot6> DevZone Help Center - Bug #2465 (Closed): DevZone compile failed (Ammler) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/2465#change-6754 17:04:31 <Lakie> Kept causing make to hang on my system because I've not got such a file 17:05:20 <planetmaker> hm, confirmed. thanks 17:07:00 <planetmaker> though actually testing for the file might be better than an ifdef 17:10:02 <Brot6> nml: update from r1353 to r1354 done - http://bundles.openttdcoop.org/nml/nightlies/r1354 17:10:22 <Brot6> newgrf_makefile: update from r289 to r290 done - http://bundles.openttdcoop.org/newgrf_makefile/nightlies/r290 17:10:39 <planetmaker> ^ there, Lakie, you can get the new, fixed nightly ;-) 17:10:42 <Brot6> Example NewGRF Project - Revision 290:55b329c3f56b: Fix: Don't fail cleaning when no graphics sou... (planetmaker) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/newgrf-makefile/repository/revisions/55b329c3f56b 17:10:54 <Lakie> Hehe 17:12:58 <planetmaker> hm... is it fixed? 17:13:10 <Lakie> Not sure yet, updating the vm software... 17:13:18 *** Lakie has quit IRC 17:15:03 <Brot6> Nutracks - Revision 197:ce97a3d7f6f5: Added lights and barriers for level crossings and enabled t... (oberhuemer) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/nutracks/repository/revisions/ce97a3d7f6f5 17:15:29 <Brot6> nutracks: update from r196 to r197 done - http://bundles.openttdcoop.org/nutracks/push/r197 17:17:59 <Brot6> airportsplus: update from r75 to r77 done - http://bundles.openttdcoop.org/airportsplus/nightlies/r77 17:18:39 <Brot6> nutracks: update from r195 to r197 done - http://bundles.openttdcoop.org/nutracks/nightlies/r197 17:18:54 <Brot6> ogfx-trees: update from r44 to r48 done - http://bundles.openttdcoop.org/ogfx-trees/nightlies/r48 17:19:01 <Brot6> Following repos didn't need a nightlies update: 2cctrainset (r750), 32bpp-extra (r40), ai-admiralai (r75), ai-aroai (r39), ailib-common (r21), ailib-direction (r17), ailib-list (r32), ailib-string (r29), ailib-tile (r16), basecosts (r25), belarusiantowns (r8), bros (r52), chips (r141), comic-houses (r71), firs (r1994), fish (r648), frenchtowns (r6), german-townnames (r34), grfcodec (r829), grfpack (r279), heqs (r605), indonesiantowns 17:19:01 <Brot6> (r41), manindu (r7), metrotrackset (r56), narvs (r37), newgrf_makefile (r290), nml (r1354), ogfx-industries (r107), ogfx-landscape (r68), ogfx-rv (r107), ogfx-rv.clone (r103), ogfx-trains (r241), opengfx (r669), openmsx (r97), opensfx (r97), smts (r19), snowlinemod (r49), spanishtowns (r10), sub-landscape (ERROR r66), sub-opengfx (ERROR r666), swedishrails (r202), swisstowns (r22), transrapidtrackset (r15), ttdviewer (r34), ttrs (r36), 17:19:03 <Brot6> worldairlinersset (r671) 17:20:56 <Brot6> Example NewGRF Project - Revision 291:e192dcac0408: Fix (r290): Also do the right thing, if a var... (planetmaker) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/newgrf-makefile/repository/revisions/e192dcac0408 17:23:48 *** Lakie has joined #openttdcoop.devzone 17:24:57 <Brot6> sub-landscape: compile of r66 still failed (#2616) - http://bundles.openttdcoop.org/sub-landscape/nightlies/ERROR/r66 17:25:38 <Lakie> Na, that still hangs, planetmaker 17:25:41 <Brot6> sub-opengfx: compile of r666 still failed (#2586) - http://bundles.openttdcoop.org/sub-opengfx/nightlies/ERROR/r666 17:26:07 <planetmaker> also with r291? (Not nightly)? 17:26:30 <planetmaker> I tested the wrong thing when trying... :S 17:26:31 <Brot6> Following repos rebuilds successful without any difference to earlier nightlies builds: belarusiantowns (Diffsize: 30), frenchtowns, german-townnames, indonesiantowns (1 errors) (Diffsize: 1), manindu (Diffsize: 1), narvs, ogfx-industries, ogfx-landscape (Diffsize: 1096), ogfx-rv, ogfx-rv.clone (Diffsize: 1), ogfx-trains (Diffsize: 813), spanishtowns (Diffsize: 1), swedishrails (Diffsize: 259), swisstowns (Diffsize: 156) 17:27:48 <Lakie> I don't see an 291 17:28:12 <Lakie> ok I'll try that 17:28:49 <planetmaker> pull the repo ;-) 17:30:13 <Lakie> missing seperator? 17:30:41 <Lakie> scripts/Makefile.common:12: *** missing separator. Stop. 17:31:27 <Ammler> why didn't script/check fail? 17:36:45 <Lakie> I'm guess because its not defined, still happy with my "ifdef GRAPHICS_SOURCE_LIST_FILE" check 17:37:29 <planetmaker> Lakie, that doesn't do the trick for empty but defined 17:37:40 <Lakie> Ah, I see. 17:37:45 <Ammler> no, I meant the example grf doesn't have gimp files either why doesn't it fail? 17:37:48 <planetmaker> try to move the "" directly around the $(GRAPHICS_SOURCE_LIST_FILE) 17:37:55 <planetmaker> and not around $(strip...) 17:38:04 <planetmaker> does it work then? 17:41:20 <Lakie> No? 17:48:06 <Lakie> Sorry, seems I'm good at breaking stuff. :x 17:55:39 <Lakie> Heh 17:55:49 <Lakie> Seems you missed a space in from of the first backet 17:56:06 <Lakie> "ifneq (" is fine but "ifneq(2 is not. 17:56:42 <Lakie> front* 17:58:18 <Lakie> "ifneq ($(strip $(GRAPHICS_SOURCE_LIST_FILE)),)" appears to work for being undefined or empty. 17:59:19 *** andythenorth has joined #openttdcoop.devzone 18:06:17 <andythenorth> bonsoir 18:06:36 *** Brot6 has quit IRC 18:06:57 <Terkhen> hi andythenorth 18:07:10 *** Brot6 has joined #openttdcoop.devzone 18:35:50 <andythenorth> Yexo: could a station tile choose the ground sprite dynamically? 18:35:59 <andythenorth> based on other tiles in the station? 18:38:03 <Yexo> yes 18:38:06 <Ammler> andythenorth: your lightling fixes are indeed useless 18:38:18 <Ammler> nobody except you would notice it 18:38:40 <Ammler> but maybe that are already too many :-P 18:39:11 <andythenorth> it's too many 18:39:29 <andythenorth> there are lighting mistakes in default game - probably due to time shortness 18:39:38 <Ammler> no 18:39:42 <Ammler> not mistakes 18:39:49 <andythenorth> choices 18:39:49 <Ammler> that is just your view 18:39:55 <Ammler> exactly 18:40:32 <Ammler> same issue as "some" think the wind needs to go the same direction everywhere 18:42:59 <andythenorth> it's just wrong 18:43:05 <andythenorth> and it needs fixing 18:43:06 <andythenorth> is all 18:46:20 <Ammler> it isn't wrong it is just you who thinks it is wrong 18:46:39 <andythenorth> that's wrong 18:46:48 <Ammler> but it doesn't hurt if you fix it as nobody could notice the difference 18:46:54 <andythenorth> if I think it's wrong, then it's wrong 18:47:18 <andythenorth> it's not subjective in this case 18:47:26 <Ammler> hehe 18:47:26 <andythenorth> whether I'm wrong is subjective :) 18:47:53 <Ammler> well, I just meant it is completely up to you, if it is worth 18:48:05 <andythenorth> it'll bug me until it's done 18:48:06 <Ammler> IMO, it isn't 18:48:14 <andythenorth> ach 18:48:29 <Ammler> and nobody will say thanks for the fix :-P 18:48:34 <andythenorth> doesn't matter 18:49:49 <andythenorth> "Quality means doing it right when no one is looking. ~Henry Ford" 18:49:55 <andythenorth> "Every job is a self-portrait of the person who does it. Autograph your work with excellence. ~Author Unknown" 18:50:02 <andythenorth> "A man cannot be comfortable without his own approval. ~Mark Twain, "What Is Man?", 1906 18:50:02 <andythenorth> " 18:50:04 <andythenorth> etc. 18:50:18 <Ammler> andythenorth: well, the point is it is just wrong for you 18:50:20 <Ammler> :-) 18:50:39 <andythenorth> "To know what is right and not do it is the worst cowardice. ~Confucius" 18:50:45 <andythenorth> ho 18:50:49 <andythenorth> quotes abound 18:51:07 <Ammler> you could also simply fix your mind 18:51:17 <andythenorth> not really 18:51:21 <Ammler> :-) 18:51:44 <andythenorth> Ammler: you use opengfx? 18:51:51 <Ammler> doesn't matter 18:52:05 <Ammler> your new ships are wrong in both sets 18:52:26 <andythenorth> but in opengfx you're looking at something where maybe 50% of the graphics are wrong 18:52:30 <andythenorth> so you wouldn't notice 18:52:43 <andythenorth> if I used FISH in opengfx, I wouldn't be worrying about FISH 18:52:47 <Ammler> no, different directions is right 18:52:51 <andythenorth> I'd be worrying about a lot of other stuff 18:53:01 <Ammler> having everything same direction is wrong 18:53:13 <andythenorth> hmm 18:53:20 <andythenorth> I see this discussion might not end 18:53:27 <andythenorth> here's another: "It takes less time to do a thing right, than it does to explain why you did it wrong. ~Henry Wadsworth Longfellow" 18:53:29 <Ammler> but you see the point? 18:53:34 <andythenorth> yes, but no 18:53:42 <andythenorth> lighting from the back is just dumb 18:53:51 <andythenorth> it won't look as good as lighting from the front 18:53:56 <andythenorth> which is why SF lit from the front 18:54:15 <Ammler> by fixing it you make something useless which nobody notices and for the those who notices, the fix is wrong 18:54:35 <andythenorth> I think we may have orthogonal opinions 18:54:40 <andythenorth> or incompatible opinions 18:54:47 <Ammler> indeed 18:54:50 <andythenorth> I don't do it for the notice of other people 18:54:54 <andythenorth> I do it because it's wrong 18:55:16 <Ammler> then you would need to fix also original set 18:55:25 <Ammler> as you said self, there are faults too 18:55:46 <andythenorth> they're not my errors 18:55:56 <Ammler> how you know, those are errors? 18:56:11 <andythenorth> faults != errors? 18:56:18 <Ammler> how you know? 18:56:33 <Ammler> did Foster say that? 18:56:36 <andythenorth> no 18:56:45 <andythenorth> I'm making assumptions about the reasons 18:56:51 <Ammler> ok 18:57:02 <andythenorth> nearly all of them look like copy-paste-flip 18:57:27 <andythenorth> a few of them look like deliberate errors 'because it will look better' which is a correct approach 18:57:46 <Ammler> but you prefer looking worse but right :-P 18:57:52 <andythenorth> no 18:57:57 <andythenorth> it looks better 18:58:02 <andythenorth> lighting from the back is stupid 18:58:17 <andythenorth> or do you mean the deliberate errors? 18:58:30 <Ammler> yes 18:58:36 <andythenorth> they're correct 18:59:00 <andythenorth> appearance in game > reality 18:59:20 <Ammler> now I am confused, but well, I just wanted to make a point that not everyone thinks the light and wind needs to be from same direction 19:00:07 <andythenorth> wind I have no opinion on 19:00:20 <andythenorth> lighting from the back is wrong 19:00:25 <Ammler> for me it was just fine to have light from right 19:01:45 <Ammler> are there other sets with this error? 19:05:56 <andythenorth> lots 19:06:04 <andythenorth> there was a long thread about in maybe 2005 or so 19:06:16 <andythenorth> george was trying to get everyone to do it right 19:06:22 <andythenorth> he did a diagram and everything 19:06:25 <andythenorth> he was correct 19:06:33 <andythenorth> purno and others basically said 'meh, we don't care' 19:06:42 <andythenorth> and then drew loads of stuff wrong 19:06:48 <andythenorth> and put wrong documentation on ttdp wiki 19:07:17 <andythenorth> and now we're having this enjoyable discussion :) 19:07:46 <Ammler> ah, I see 19:08:05 <Ammler> so you basically take George as right and others as wrong 19:08:10 <andythenorth> yes 19:08:17 <andythenorth> he made the correct analysis 19:08:31 <Ammler> did MB comment it? 19:08:45 <andythenorth> probably 19:08:52 <andythenorth> he sent me the link to the thread so I guess 19:11:06 <Ammler> well, fixing it doesn't hurt... but I see it like the others, but basically the wiki rules not George :-) 19:11:23 <Ammler> the wiki can't be wrong 19:11:29 <Ammler> George can 19:12:27 <Ammler> so after all, you just change it for you better taste, which doesn't hurt ;-) 19:13:14 <andythenorth> the wiki is wrong 19:13:16 <andythenorth> I fixed it 19:13:20 <andythenorth> george is correct 19:13:23 <Ammler> oh :-o 19:13:37 <Ammler> you fixed it :-D 19:14:04 <Ammler> then the wiki was wrong 19:14:17 <Ammler> but now, it isn't anymore 19:14:31 <Ammler> so as said, the wiki can't be wrong 19:15:26 <Ammler> that is why I would trust wikimedia quite much more as a book of any scientist 19:20:24 <andythenorth> unfortunately it appears that Zeph trusted the wiki 19:20:33 <andythenorth> and I learnt shading from Zeph's sprites 19:20:41 <andythenorth> which is why I've been doing it wrong 19:20:56 <andythenorth> as Zeph has redrawn nearly the entire game, maybe he is now right :P 19:28:44 <Terkhen> andythenorth: http://devs.openttd.org/~terkhen/screenshots/firs_0.6.4_fishing_harbour.png <--- I remember this issue as reported and fixed :/ 19:29:31 <Terkhen> bbl 19:56:46 <Terkhen> andythenorth: should I open a new task? 19:57:01 <andythenorth> I should do some archeology on commits first 19:57:09 <andythenorth> I couldn't fix all the issues with the harbour 19:57:18 <andythenorth> some are almost impossible with current spec 19:59:49 <andythenorth> bbl 20:00:08 <Terkhen> ok :) 20:45:02 <andythenorth> Terkhen: is the case one of the ones attached here? http://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/2361 20:47:23 <Terkhen> not exactly 20:47:42 <Terkhen> this one at least has a single tile "right" 20:47:46 <Terkhen> is the other one which is wrong 20:48:18 <andythenorth> it's probably related to those cases 20:48:44 <Terkhen> I think so, yes 20:49:52 <andythenorth> http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/firs/repository/revisions/7abe3cc28c8d 20:50:06 <andythenorth> the common case was resolved in 0.6.4 20:50:22 <andythenorth> I have to wake up my brain for about 30 mins to understand the complex cases 20:50:30 <andythenorth> and I don't think there's a practical fix 20:50:48 <andythenorth> however if FIRS converts to nml, maybe others will help 20:50:53 <andythenorth> :) 20:51:05 <Terkhen> it is not something big, it can wait :) 20:51:25 <andythenorth> might need tile spec upgrading 20:51:30 <andythenorth> it's currently a bit limited 20:52:01 <andythenorth> for someone who can write C++ or nml equally, the time would be better spent fixing game than coding n custom layout checks for one industry 20:52:22 <andythenorth> but I can't remember what is needed - something to tell if there is actually water on the tile IIRC 20:53:16 <andythenorth> can you add that case to the existing issue? 20:54:18 <Rubidium> a someone that can write C++ is going to spent his time even better ;) 20:54:50 <Ammler> andythenorth: I thought we found out that the lightning is just a matter of personal view :-) 20:54:55 <andythenorth> empirically, I'm not convinced 20:55:01 <andythenorth> hmm that was an answer to Rubidium 20:55:07 <andythenorth> but it also holds for Ammler 20:55:21 <andythenorth> Ammler: I think this argument is probably expiring :P 20:55:31 <Rubidium> I think lightning is irrelevant in OpenTTD 20:55:43 <andythenorth> as is rain 20:55:43 <Ammler> also the author of course rules 20:55:43 <Rubidium> after all, we don't have weather in OpenTTD 20:55:47 <andythenorth> what about tornados? 20:55:55 <Ammler> in your case you :-P 20:56:05 <Ammler> on opengfx we don't care 20:56:16 <Ammler> we use sprites we got 20:56:51 <Ammler> I would for sure not decline a nicer sprite because of wrong lightning 20:57:31 <andythenorth> that's because (I think) opengfx has a different goal 20:57:37 <Rubidium> Ammler: lightning? 20:57:45 <andythenorth> my goal is to make things that fit with TTD original art 20:57:55 <Ammler> which it doesn't 20:58:03 <Ammler> as there the light is also different 20:58:07 <Ammler> (as you said) 20:58:07 <andythenorth> hmm 20:58:21 <andythenorth> how many sprites are there in game? 20:58:25 <andythenorth> 6k or so? 20:58:29 <Ammler> around 10k 20:58:43 <andythenorth> most are lit from bottom right of screen, and 'high' 20:59:06 <andythenorth> you're arguing against empiricism using a few exceptions and telling me that it's subjective 20:59:07 <andythenorth> it's not 20:59:11 <andythenorth> it's empirical 20:59:16 <Ammler> :-) 20:59:21 <andythenorth> ;) 21:00:07 <Ammler> you know, openttd does also add sprites fixes of ttd set to openttd.grf 21:00:16 <andythenorth> I've seen them 21:03:40 <Ammler> Rubidium: andythenorth does change all his sprites because the lights are wrong (as it would matter) 21:04:13 <Ammler> the source of light is according to him always from south-east 21:04:32 <planetmaker> I think andy's arguments are right 21:04:54 <andythenorth> Ammler: it's not according to me 21:04:55 <Ammler> yes, you also think the wind should have same direction :-P 21:04:57 <andythenorth> it's according to the sprites 21:05:00 <planetmaker> and if he fancies to do it 'correct' - whether or not most users care or not - is only up to him. Especially if it gives a warm fuzzy feeling inside 21:05:13 <planetmaker> Ammler: I think it's not possible ;-) 21:05:32 <andythenorth> the wind is probably limited by sprite bounding boxes 21:05:38 <andythenorth> or he just forgot when drawing 21:05:39 <Ammler> oh, I never told andy not to fix his sprites 21:05:52 <Ammler> I just told him that is useless work 21:06:09 <planetmaker> nope. But if he's happy to fix his sprites, it's also IMHO not nice to say it's useless 21:06:22 <Ammler> yes, it is also wrong 21:06:26 <planetmaker> As it - IMHO - is not entirely useless. It will add to a better overall impression 21:06:27 * andythenorth thinks marking work for TTD as 'useless' and 'not useless' has somewhat missed a point :P 21:06:29 <Ammler> or what you mean :-P 21:07:04 <Ammler> andythenorth: it was a summery of our whole discussion ;-) 21:07:08 <andythenorth> on the grand scale of 'uselessness' we are all of us here not far off lolcats 21:07:11 <planetmaker> Ammler: and IMHO you're wrong, if you state that andy's wrong in doing what he thinks is improvement where he has good reasons for 21:07:23 <andythenorth> or possibly even more useless than lolcats 21:08:05 <Terkhen> the fun supplied by OpenTTD lasts longer than a lolcat, but probably less than a lolcat gallery 21:08:06 <planetmaker> useless is a discussion whether the way someone spends his time is useful or useless when he insists that it's an improvement to things ;-) 21:08:09 <Ammler> planetmaker: the point was just that is right for him but wrong for me 21:08:15 <Ammler> it is all fine over all 21:08:18 <planetmaker> Ammler: why wrong for you? 21:08:36 <Ammler> because I don't think the light and wind needs to be one source 21:08:52 <planetmaker> the light yes. For the wind I can accept your argument 21:09:05 <andythenorth> I find the argument about light odd and can't really argue against it 21:09:07 <planetmaker> that's why I stopped worrying about wind currently 21:09:08 <andythenorth> it is just wrong 21:09:19 <Ammler> from your personal view, which is ok ;-) 21:09:37 <andythenorth> well 21:09:40 <Ammler> as said, the author rules 21:10:38 <Ammler> well, I would also accept a "wrong", if someone contributes sprites with light source north 21:11:04 <Ammler> but east is ok 21:11:14 <Ammler> as is your south-east 21:11:49 <Brot6> OpenGFX - Revision 670:23868ac170b3: Change: Use the proper name in the readme and update changelog (planetmaker) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/opengfx/repository/revisions/23868ac170b3 21:11:53 <andythenorth> he 21:12:09 <andythenorth> and maybe we could start drawing 1 pixel up for every 1 across 21:12:20 <andythenorth> or 1 pixel up for every 3 across 21:12:34 <Ammler> why that? 21:12:41 <andythenorth> because 2:1 isometric is no more or less correct than 3:1 isometric, or 45' 21:12:52 <andythenorth> the author rules 21:12:54 <Ammler> don't get that 21:13:15 <Ammler> well, that is technically not possible 21:14:12 <Ammler> as said, your sprites aren't wrong, just your brain :-P 21:14:25 <Ammler> fix your brain first 21:14:37 <andythenorth> you think I couldn't draw 3:1? 21:15:10 <Ammler> I have no clue, what you mean with that 21:16:21 <Ammler> the isometric 2:1 is not a defination, that is pure geometrie or physics or however that is called 21:16:39 <Ammler> definition* 21:16:52 <Ammler> mäh 21:18:27 <Ammler> you are also the only one, who can blame you that your sprites are wrong, everyone else would ear slaps 21:20:27 <Ammler> and planetmaker, saying that andy is right would implicit that opengfx is wrong 21:20:58 <planetmaker> partially. yes 21:21:04 <Ammler> :'-( 21:21:22 <planetmaker> I'd not call it 'wrong'. But it has potential for improvement anyway 21:21:28 <Ammler> ugly 21:22:24 <Ammler> since you draw yourself, do you care about that and did you make it "right"? 21:22:42 <planetmaker> most notably the best argument is the way how things look best. And they do indeed when light is not exactly East, but South-East 21:23:03 <planetmaker> Ammler: I'm not there yet, not good enough. But yes, I'd try to 21:23:20 <Ammler> :-) 21:23:21 <planetmaker> and trees... maybe I could have done better 21:24:14 <Ammler> how do you compare that? 21:24:29 <andythenorth> 3:1 works ok 21:24:29 <andythenorth> http://tt-foundry.com/misc/3-1.png 21:24:35 <Ammler> I mean, how you know something looks better from south-east than from east? 21:24:39 * andythenorth will switch FIRS to 3:1 from now on 21:25:15 <Ammler> andythenorth: as said, that is geometry, not definition 21:25:24 <andythenorth> hmm 21:25:31 <Ammler> the light source is simple defination 21:25:31 <andythenorth> I fail to understand the distinction 21:25:33 *** ODM has quit IRC 21:25:45 <andythenorth> Ammler: we're discussing at cross purpose 21:25:50 <andythenorth> or some such 21:25:57 <Ammler> I guess so 21:26:12 <Ammler> you can't change the isometric 21:26:18 <andythenorth> why not? 21:26:23 <andythenorth> it's just author's opinion 21:26:28 <Ammler> that is given, you would need to change the whole engine 21:27:08 <planetmaker> andythenorth: 3:1? 21:27:10 <andythenorth> he :) 21:27:13 <Brot6> OpenGFX - Revision 671:47147dad1521: Added tag 0.3.4 for changeset 23868ac170b3 (planetmaker) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/opengfx/repository/revisions/47147dad1521 21:27:13 <Brot6> OpenGFX - Revision 672:bb12c09895e5: Fix: Don't fail cleaning when there's no graphics source fil... (planetmaker) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/opengfx/repository/revisions/bb12c09895e5 21:27:20 <andythenorth> Ammler: is right, the case is not quite the same 21:27:33 <planetmaker> urgs. That tag should not be there :S 21:28:19 <andythenorth> Ammler: only the tile size would need to change 21:28:30 <Brot6> opengfx: update from 0.3.3 to 0.3.4 done - http://bundles.openttdcoop.org/opengfx/releases/0.3.4 21:28:41 <andythenorth> a simple compression of y values should do it on the fly 21:28:45 <Ammler> andythenorth: not sure, it is imo quite complicated 21:28:47 <andythenorth> maybe we can make it an advanced setting 21:29:12 <Ammler> also the "angle" of the map view 21:29:13 <andythenorth> it's only a scaling of each tile 21:29:19 <Ammler> not sure, if possible at all 21:29:27 <andythenorth> sure it is :) 21:29:45 <Ammler> are there games with that view? 21:29:48 <andythenorth> the sprite sorter still has to sort in the same order 21:29:58 <andythenorth> nothing moved relative to each other, only the 'camera' 21:30:22 <andythenorth> you might have an interesting time building routes though 21:30:32 <andythenorth> as you won't be able to see them a lot of the time 21:31:04 <andythenorth> anyway 21:31:09 * andythenorth should go to bed 21:31:29 <andythenorth> and hopes never to speak of this again 21:31:31 <andythenorth> except to correct people who are lighting wrong 21:31:35 <planetmaker> hm, I guess I'll just re-tag it 21:31:45 <Terkhen> good night andythenorth 21:31:45 <planetmaker> even though I don't advise it ;-) 21:31:54 <Ammler> yes, good night andy 21:32:22 <Ammler> oh Terkhen, there is a ticket you should close, reject or whatever 21:32:25 <planetmaker> g'night andythenorth 21:32:31 <Terkhen> what ticket? 21:32:31 *** andythenorth has left #openttdcoop.devzone 21:32:50 <Ammler> #2640 21:32:50 <Brot6> Ammler: #2640 is http://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/show/2640 "OpenGFX+ Road Vehicles - Bug #2640: DevZone compile failed - #openttdcoop Development Zone" 21:32:58 <Ammler> wasn't it valid? 21:33:56 <Terkhen> hmm... the first time it compiled a nightly instead of the release, the second time it compiled the right version, I'll close it 21:34:40 <Ammler> were I able to explain it? 21:34:49 <Ammler> I remember the case 21:35:07 <Ammler> but I have no clue, If I were able to fix it 21:35:19 <Brot6> OpenGFX+ Road Vehicles - Bug #2640 (Closed): DevZone compile failed (Terkhen) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/2640#change-6755 21:35:23 <Terkhen> hmm... I don't remember talking much about the issue 21:36:37 <Ammler> ok, then worth to forget it 21:36:43 <Ammler> until it might happen again 21:37:27 <Ammler> planetmaker: retagging is fine as long as it would happen immediately 21:37:54 <planetmaker> yes 21:38:04 <planetmaker> this was stretching it 21:38:08 <Brot6> OpenGFX - Revision 673:69bf803671b9: Added tag 0.3.4 for changeset bb12c09895e5 (planetmaker) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/opengfx/repository/revisions/69bf803671b9 21:38:44 <Ammler> I would say as long as not announced :-) 21:39:40 <Brot6> opengfx: update from 0.3.4 to 0.3.4 done - http://bundles.openttdcoop.org/opengfx/releases/0.3.4 21:40:31 <planetmaker> the first one only happens as a hg rollback doesn't set back the .hgtags file :S 21:41:58 <Ammler> but then, how did the commit happen? 21:42:11 <planetmaker> I commited a Makefile fix 21:42:18 <planetmaker> with the changed tag file 21:42:32 <Ammler> hmm, but there were 2 commits 21:42:47 *** frosch123 has quit IRC 21:43:21 <planetmaker> hm... don't ask me :-P 21:55:30 <planetmaker> Rubidium: could you be so kind to sync opengfx to the mirrors - if that should be needed 21:56:08 <Ammler> it does not just sync 21:56:11 <Ammler> it does build 21:59:18 <Brot6> OpenGFX - OpenGFX 0.3.4 released (planetmaker) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/news/56 22:01:36 <Ammler> you miss links on the news post 22:10:34 <planetmaker> in the devzone news? 22:12:45 <Ammler> yes 22:12:55 <Ammler> well, those are also on www.openttdcoop.org 22:13:37 <Terkhen> time for flagging packages as outdated :) 22:15:16 <Terkhen> I'll wait until a news link is posted :P 22:15:31 <Terkhen> ah, it's already there :) 22:31:33 <Brot6> NewGRF Meta Language - Revision 1355:9feef6706b73: Fix: engine_override was broken (yexo) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/nml/repository/revisions/9feef6706b73 22:48:05 <planetmaker> good night