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Log for #openttdcoop.devzone on 10th June 2011:
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06:51:20  *** bodis has joined #openttdcoop.devzone
06:52:00  <bodis> morning
06:52:25  <Terkhen> hi bodis
06:52:29  <bodis> wondering how long until until company filters kick me out :)
06:53:14  <planetmaker> do you think it's a good test to make
06:53:22  <bodis> yeah why not :)
06:53:37  <bodis> have been playing games with IT department for last 2 years :)
06:53:57  <bodis> they hate me :)
06:54:20  <bodis> well its a game for them as well I am sure :P
07:00:57  <Terkhen> :D
07:11:02  *** ODM has joined #openttdcoop.devzone
07:36:34  <Terkhen> Yexo: there is no PIL for python 3 so I did not get very far on testing nml with python 3 :)
07:37:34  <Terkhen> "A version for 3.X will be released later" <--- the website says this, but later is a relative term :P
07:38:47  <planetmaker> uhm, python3?
07:38:58  <Terkhen> yes
07:39:36  <planetmaker> nml currently does not work with that for a few reasons - or do you have a patched version?
07:40:54  <Terkhen> no, I was just beginning my experiment
07:41:06  <planetmaker> what do you try?
07:41:32  <planetmaker> (I'm not curious, I just want to know everything :-P )
07:41:39  <Terkhen> install python3, install python-imaging, my package manager says that python imaging needs python2, nothing else :)
07:42:19  <planetmaker> ok... you want to try to port nml also to python3? :-)
07:42:44  <Terkhen> I wanted to see what failed to know if it was feasible :P
07:42:53  <planetmaker> :-)
07:42:54  <Terkhen> but of course I do not want to port the complete PIL
07:43:01  <planetmaker> :-D
07:43:28  <planetmaker> It might be interesting to kinda "conserve" your observations. Maybe open a ticket in the issue tracker about that
07:44:09  <planetmaker> then maybe later one can just check the critical issues and hope that no new ones arose ;-)
07:44:26  <Terkhen> ok :)
07:44:53  <planetmaker> unless of course you port it successfully :-P
07:45:40  <Terkhen> I will not try again until PIL has a version for python3... it is a big library :)
07:45:41  <planetmaker> but it's rather "interesting" to know that PIL is not (yet) available for python3
07:45:52  <planetmaker> I know :-)
07:45:56  <Terkhen> from looking at the homepage development looks a bit dead
07:46:01  <planetmaker> :-(
07:46:14  <Terkhen> I have not checked the mailing list though
07:48:04  <planetmaker> well, still. It's from Nov. 2009. That doesn't bode well
07:52:07  <Brot6> NewGRF Meta Language - Feature #2722 (New): Support for Python 3 (Terkhen) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/2722
07:58:26  <Brot6> NewGRF Meta Language - Feature #2722: Support for Python 3 (Terkhen) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/2722#change-6811
07:58:29  <Terkhen> planetmaker: ^ indeed it does not
08:01:15  <planetmaker> :-S
08:19:26  <Yexo> http://mail.python.org/pipermail/image-sig/2011-January/006650.html <- that looks good :)
08:19:27  <Webster> Title: [Image-SIG] ANN: PIL 1.2 pre-alpha (January 8, 2011) (at mail.python.org)
08:22:38  <Terkhen> ooh, indeed :)
08:22:46  <Terkhen> I can work with that :P
08:41:59  *** Tloo-ZaRaZa has joined #openttdcoop.devzone
08:42:10  <Tloo-ZaRaZa> ahoy!
08:44:28  <Terkhen> hi Tloo-ZaRaZa
08:58:54  <Terkhen> after applying the 2to3 script to nml it fails when compiling ogfx-industries, I'll look into the errors later
08:59:23  <Terkhen> there are big syntax changes though
09:00:32  <Terkhen> print "" -> print("")  <--- for example this
09:06:42  <Yexo> but that syntax is already valid in python 2
09:06:45  <Yexo> so we could do that change already
09:18:04  <Brot6> NewGRF Meta Language - Feature #2722: Support for Python 3 (Terkhen) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/2722#change-6812
09:18:18  <Terkhen> ^ in case you are curious I have attached the diff file to that comment
09:18:30  <Terkhen> I'll keep looking into it this afternoon :)
09:22:10  <Yexo> doesn't look very intrusive
09:50:36  <Tloo-ZaRaZa> "how old" nml is?
09:51:24  <Tloo-ZaRaZa> found. first rev in rep is 2010-04-02
09:52:13  <Yexo> that's how old it is approximately
09:52:19  <Yexo> development started a few weeks earlier or so
09:56:55  *** ODM has quit IRC
09:56:55  <Tloo-ZaRaZa> good job, i'd like to say )
09:57:04  <Yexo> thanks :)
09:58:17  <Tloo-ZaRaZa> i dont think I can help you with coding right now, but maybe with translation, or something else
10:01:12  <Terkhen> improving the documentation is always welcome :)
10:19:49  <planetmaker> improving the documentation is not a task to be undervalued
10:20:49  <Ammler> hmm, I wonder is it worth to add some "automatic" python3 tests?
10:21:04  <Yexo> as long as PIL doesn't support python3 there is little point
10:23:11  <Terkhen> we are not even sure if that PIL beta will support everything that nml requires
10:43:46  <Terkhen> ImportError: No module named Image <--- I suppose this module is part of PIL
10:43:58  <Yexo> yes
10:44:56  <Terkhen> besides this error and unless more errors would appear if the module was present, the changes to support python3 are not big
10:45:08  <Terkhen> besides the patch there is only a operator.div error
10:45:16  <Yexo> fixed that one locally already
10:45:31  <Terkhen> ok :)
10:46:58  <Brot6> NewGRF Meta Language - Revision 1388:c811118427f4: Codechange #2722: prepent module names in rela... (yexo) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/nml/repository/revisions/c811118427f4
10:46:58  <Brot6> NewGRF Meta Language - Revision 1389:feded5eeb2e7: Codechange #2722: wrap range() with list() whe... (yexo) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/nml/repository/revisions/feded5eeb2e7
10:46:58  <Brot6> NewGRF Meta Language - Revision 1390:5191d3942582: Codechange #2722: operator.div is deprecated i... (yexo) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/nml/repository/revisions/5191d3942582
10:47:27  <Yexo> the "print >> sys.stderr, msg" to "print(msg, file=sys.stderr)" changes are not compatible with python2.7
11:01:46  <Yexo> we can do more changes to go to python 3 support if we drop python2.5 support
11:02:36  <planetmaker> hm, that'll mean I cannot use it at university anymore
11:02:48  <planetmaker> or I'll have to upgrade this machine ;-)
11:02:52  <Yexo> so for now bad idea
11:03:17  <Yexo> hmm, I can't even install python2.5 via my package manager anymore
11:04:57  <planetmaker> this system is not exactly new either ;-) Nor this computer actually :S
11:09:34  <Terkhen> ok :)
11:12:54  <Yexo> planetmaker: incidentally, could you test whether nml since r1388 still works in python2.5?
11:14:33  <planetmaker> hm.... maybe not: http://paste.openttdcoop.org/show/258/
11:16:11  <Yexo> that was r1387, another error
11:16:25  <planetmaker> well, IF that is a python 2.5 issue, then you might as choose to not bother with it and rather start moving towards 3.x compatibility
11:16:34  <Yexo> it was not
11:16:41  <Brot6> NewGRF Meta Language - Revision 1391:c8325a74e3c4: Fix r1387: self shouldn't be passed explicitely (yexo) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/nml/repository/revisions/c8325a74e3c4
11:17:35  <planetmaker> Error:      (TypeError) "register_names() takes exactly 1 argument (2 given)".
11:17:35  <planetmaker> Command:    ['/usr/local/bin/nmlc', '--grf', 'ogfx-industries.grf', 'ogfx-industries.nml']
11:17:35  <planetmaker> Location:   File "/home/ingo/ottd/grfdev/nml/nml/ast/conditional.py", line 61, in register_names
11:17:38  <Yexo> to not waste your time, let me fix a few things first
11:17:46  <Yexo> ^^ that indeed
11:17:50  <planetmaker> :-) ok
11:21:59  <Ammler> isn't it a bit early to withdraw 2.5 support?
11:22:41  <Yexo> planetmaker: can you pull and test again?
11:23:01  <Yexo> Ammler: yes, I'm not in favor of that, just said that it would make it easier to move towards python3 support
11:23:03  <Brot6> NewGRF Meta Language - Revision 1392:73a236d70014: Fix r1387: some more errors with register_names (yexo) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/nml/repository/revisions/73a236d70014
11:23:33  <planetmaker> nmlc: "src/tiles/forest_tiles.pnml", line 133: Unrecognized identifier 'INDTILE_CB_ANIM_STARTSTOP' encountered
11:23:33  <planetmaker>  ^^ but that looks like something not nml-ish ;-)
11:23:53  <planetmaker> oh, it was a patched ogfx+industries
11:24:00  <Ammler> ah well, it might take another year for python3 :-)
11:24:46  <Yexo> planetmaker: that was r1362
11:25:07  <planetmaker> that changed that?
11:25:29  <Yexo> that was the s/INDTILE_CB_ANIM_STARTSTOP/INDTILE_CB_ANIM_CONTROL/ change in nml
11:25:39  <planetmaker> good time to fix that, I think ;-)
11:25:45  <planetmaker> (for me to do that)
11:26:58  <Ammler> planetmaker: you ignore the compiler tickets :-P
11:27:11  <planetmaker> not really. I saw them
11:28:18  <planetmaker> but why are there two failrure tasks...?
11:28:31  <Yexo> bug in nml, they can be closed now
11:28:38  <Yexo> not sure why there are two
11:30:19  <Ammler> one for ogfx-industries, one for ogfx-landscape
11:30:58  <Ammler> a 3rd for ogfx-airports
11:31:45  <Brot6> OpenGFX+ Industries - Bug #2701 (Rejected): DevZone compile failed (planetmaker) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/2701#change-6813
11:33:05  <Brot6> OpenGFX+ Industries - Bug #2707 (Rejected): DevZone compile failed (planetmaker) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/2707#change-6814
11:33:31  <Brot6> OpenGFX+ Airports - Bug #2655 (Rejected): DevZone compile failed (planetmaker) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/2655#change-6815
11:33:43  <Ammler> 2707 lookd valid
11:34:00  <Yexo> it was not
11:34:10  <Brot6> OpenGFX+ Airports - Bug #2667 (Rejected): DevZone compile failed (planetmaker) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/2667#change-6816
11:34:21  <Yexo> nml r1387 (and r1391, r1392) fixed it
11:34:24  <planetmaker> Ammler, I compiled before
11:34:50  <Ammler> yep, so it was valid, doesn't make it invalid :-P
11:35:08  <Brot6> OpenGFX+ Airports - Bug #2706 (Rejected): DevZone compile failed (planetmaker) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/2706#change-6817
11:35:51  <Brot6> Swedish Rails - Bug #2679 (Rejected): DevZone compile failed (planetmaker) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/2679#change-6818
11:36:11  <Ammler> if you reject compiler tickets, that looks like a failure of my script :-(
11:36:35  <planetmaker> what shall I do? They're not valid
11:36:48  <planetmaker> it was trying to build it with a broken nml back then
11:36:59  <Yexo> "reject" just means "it's not a bug in this package"
11:37:11  <Yexo> that means it could either be your script or (as in this case) a bug of one of the compilers
11:37:14  <Ammler> well, you could tell me about the failure in the script
11:37:37  <planetmaker> Ammler, what about no nightly build try when NML fails to build?
11:38:01  <Ammler> Yexo: if the compiler is package of devzone, it is valid
11:38:04  <planetmaker> often the tickets originate from days like those
11:38:11  <Brot6> OpenGFX+ Trains - Bug #2677 (Rejected): DevZone compile failed (planetmaker) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/2677#change-6819
11:38:22  <Yexo> Ammler: yes, but not for the package is was created for
11:38:29  <Yexo> a valid ticket would be in the nml tracker
11:38:36  <Ammler> Yexo: how would you report that?
11:38:44  <Yexo> automatically? not possible
11:38:59  <Ammler> shall I report to nml only on rebuild?
11:39:18  <Ammler> but then we lose depreciated
11:39:24  <Yexo> that is also not a correct solution, since future versions of nml could make some checks more strict
11:39:36  <Yexo> and error out where previously it generated invalid grfs for example
11:39:54  <planetmaker> which would a proper bug for the newgrf, though
11:40:17  <Yexo> yes, hence "on rebuild go to nml" is not always correct either
11:40:38  <planetmaker> the "problematic" cases which I now mass-reject(ed) are those where a bug in an NML nightly version leads to a compile failure
11:41:04  <planetmaker> but detecting these bugs... and deciding where it is... very difficult
11:41:07  <planetmaker> if not impossible
11:41:14  <Yexo> there will always be some problematic cases, so imo the current workflow is fine
11:41:18  <Ammler> planetmaker: the question is, is it possible to autodetect that
11:41:32  <Yexo> no, that's impossible
11:42:42  <planetmaker> Ammler, what might be checked - but that needs a re-write with buffer for the CF - whether multiple projects fail
11:42:49  <Ammler> well, I guess the idea I had is, if someone of the nml authors is annyed about "wrong" compiler issues, he can change require nml to releases
11:43:13  <planetmaker> then it's likely some issue which is in relation to NML syntax changes or bugs
11:43:58  <Brot6> German town names - Bug #2670 (Rejected): DevZone compile failed (planetmaker) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/2670#change-6820
11:43:59  <Ammler> planetmaker: basically if all nml projects fail, it is a nml bug
11:44:07  <planetmaker> Possibly yes
11:44:16  <planetmaker> not all. But many
11:44:34  <Ammler> worth to change that? :-)
11:44:37  <planetmaker> Not sure how to programatically phrase that though
11:44:54  <planetmaker> "all" is not good enough. Small, simple ones might work
11:45:30  <Ammler> this case wasn't that bad, but the last case where setup failed
11:45:40  <planetmaker> But like if #ogfx+ projects fail... then it's an NML issue. Whether bug or syntax change... undecidable
11:46:26  <Yexo> take a change like nml r1352 (animation constant names change)
11:46:47  <planetmaker> that's a newgrf bug
11:46:50  <Yexo> if the nightly had compiled before the ogfx+ projects where fixed they would all have failed
11:47:43  <planetmaker> possibly it needs a check whether compilation with the NML version used last for a build continues to deliver a newgrf
11:48:14  <planetmaker> i.e. if the last commit to a newgrf was on 13 May, then it's an update issue for the project, if newer NML versions don't build it
11:48:30  <planetmaker> which then needs no reporting
11:48:30  <Ammler> well, that auomatically happens, sine error builds are in a special subdir
11:48:46  <Ammler> LATEST doesn't change
11:49:00  <planetmaker> hm...
11:49:05  <planetmaker> well, difficult
11:49:33  <Ammler> planetmaker: the whole thing is about rebuilds anyway
11:50:17  <Ammler> the biggest issue is that I can't test installation on same package I build the "installation"
11:50:29  <planetmaker> maybe don't open a bug report, if a rebuild fails
11:51:36  <Ammler> planetmaker: those authors not liking that could change to nml release
11:51:52  <bodis> what determines if a newgrf makes the online content list from ingame
11:52:01  <planetmaker> or... start a counter which increases each day. If like if 7 consecutive _different_ NML versions don't build the newgrf, raise a ticket with the newgrf. But also not of immediate level
11:52:33  <planetmaker> Ammler, yes. But the generation of the ticket might be a bit too quick :-)
11:52:51  <planetmaker> like change of NML on 17:45. Ticket with immediate attention at 18:18
11:53:19  <planetmaker> and the NML bugs do not progress, if you do such progressive testing over NML versions / days
11:53:25  <Ammler> hmm, true rebuild tickets shouldn't be immediate :-)
11:53:43  <planetmaker> I like the idea to not immediately report rebuild issues.
11:54:04  <planetmaker> but to give it a few days and NML versions to test until it becomes an issue
11:54:24  <Yexo> bodis: everything that is uploaded to bananas appears there
11:54:44  <planetmaker> I assume here that NML bugs which have NewGRF compilation fail, are fixed somewhat immediately :-)
11:54:45  <Ammler> on the other side, the project devs can change the priority or well reject the ticket
11:55:11  <planetmaker> Ammler, yes. But... I rejected now like a dozen invalid tickets because NML errors
11:55:25  <planetmaker> that's what the slower pickup of such re-build issue would solve
11:55:27  <Yexo> planetmaker: the advantage of the current system is that I am notified by the opened bugs that there is an nml failure
11:55:36  <Yexo> hmm, mostly by the message on irc though
11:55:45  <planetmaker> that could be de-coupled
11:55:48  <Yexo> so as long as that stays not opening a ticker for the projects is fine with me
11:56:02  <bodis> Yexo, thanks I will start with a simple one and add Lithuanian town names,  hopefully that will give me the idea how compiler works etc :P
11:56:14  <Ammler> yep, irc and tickets are possible to split
11:56:30  <Ammler> e.q that happens, if a repo without project fails
11:56:33  <planetmaker> maybe good idea :-)
11:56:50  <planetmaker> Both. Splitting and counting up to ticket creation
11:57:05  <planetmaker> CF v2? :-P
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11:57:53  <Ammler> planetmaker: there is already a counter: http://bundles.openttdcoop.org/ogfx-industries/nightlies/LATEST/log/RELEASE
12:10:53  <planetmaker> what does it count?
12:15:10  <Ammler> the rebuilds
12:20:12  <planetmaker> successful ones?
12:21:18  <planetmaker> that should make it even easier to only report a bug to the newgrf, if n consecutive rebuilds failed
12:23:46  <planetmaker> so I suggest indeed that:
12:24:17  <planetmaker> - report rebuild errors as now on IRC and put the info on the bundles server where they are also now
12:24:43  <planetmaker> - raise a ticket only after 5 consecutive re-builds failed
12:25:30  <Yexo> that sounds good
12:25:39  <Ammler> so no ticket at all, also no normal prio?
12:25:48  <planetmaker> after 5 failed re-builds
12:26:13  <planetmaker> because the 1st often enough is an NML issue
12:26:44  <planetmaker> and... most people who fix them, see it on IRC, too
12:26:56  <planetmaker> not to say all ;-)
12:27:32  <Ammler> and 3rd
12:27:49  <Ammler> - report rebuild error to build require if all projects fail
12:28:15  <planetmaker> maybe. what is "all" though?
12:28:36  <planetmaker> this has IMHO less priority
12:28:50  <Ammler> isn't #2703 closeable?
12:28:51  <Brot6> Ammler: #2703 is http://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/show/2703 "DevZone Help Center - Membership #2703: Applying for project: Russian Town Names - #openttdcoop Development Zone"
12:28:53  <planetmaker> but would be nice
12:29:07  <planetmaker> yes
12:29:16  <planetmaker> I forgot
12:31:28  <Brot6> DevZone Help Center - Membership #2703 (Closed): Applying for project: Russian Town Names (Tloo-ZaRaZa) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/2703
12:31:28  <Brot6> DevZone Help Center - Feature #2723 (New): improve error annoucing on rebuild (Ammler) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/2723
12:31:28  <Brot6> DevZone Help Center - Membership #2703 (Closed): Applying for project: Russian Town Names (Ammler) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/2703#change-6821
12:32:07  <Ammler> Yexo: planetmaker, please add 2723 if you have other thoughts
12:34:34  <Brot6> DevZone Help Center - Feature #2723 (New): improve error announcing on rebuild (Ammler) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/2723
12:44:59  <bodis> how do i open a new ticket for lithuanian town names grf?
12:46:28  <Yexo> see link here: http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/home
12:48:03  <Ammler> [14:28] <planetmaker> maybe. what is "all" though? <-- all repos, which have nml as requires
12:48:16  <Ammler> (or whatever requires)
12:49:32  <Brot6> DevZone Help Center - Feature #2724 (New): Applying for project: <Lithuanian Town Names> (bodis) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/2724
12:49:45  <bodis> hmm
12:50:02  <Ammler> hmm?
12:50:32  <bodis> :)
12:50:38  <bodis> something happened
12:50:41  <bodis> :)
12:51:14  <planetmaker> that's so that we see it ;-)
12:51:36  <planetmaker> you or I, Ammler ?
12:52:09  <planetmaker> bodis, do you need a repository?
12:52:29  <bodis> ?
12:52:30  <Ammler> planetmaker: go for it, thanks :-)
12:52:32  <bodis> elaborate
12:52:33  <bodis> :P
12:52:45  <Ammler> I wondered, why the watchers aren't added
12:53:19  <bodis> ok work time again bbl
12:53:22  <planetmaker> bodis, in order to really use the DevZone you need to make use of a version control system
12:53:30  <bodis> ok
12:53:55  <bodis> I would appreciate if somebody explain it to me tonight
12:54:06  <Ammler> highly recommend, but not required :-)
12:57:18  <planetmaker> http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/lithuan-townnames <-- @ bodis
13:07:36  <Tloo-ZaRaZa> is it lithuan? not Lithuanian
13:08:01  * planetmaker has no idea. Might be a spelling mistake on my part
13:08:14  <planetmaker> he can change it ;-)
13:08:49  <Ammler> oh, he can?
13:09:00  <Ammler> :-P
13:09:17  <Ammler> but he can make a new project with right name
13:09:48  <planetmaker> or that :-)
13:11:14  <Ammler> changeing id would need db access
13:11:52  <planetmaker> yes, easier to create a new project then
13:12:10  <planetmaker> and Tloo-ZaRaZa is of course right ;-)
13:13:36  <Tloo-ZaRaZa> I was wondered how it is spelled in English )
13:14:14  * Terkhen is back to linux :)
13:14:45  <Tloo-ZaRaZa> in Russian it's simple "Litva"
13:14:54  <planetmaker> in German it's easy, too
13:15:08  <planetmaker> thanks for the hint. New project created, old deleted
13:15:13  <Tloo-ZaRaZa> np
13:15:37  <planetmaker> https://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/lithuanian-townnames/settings <-- @ bodis
13:25:31  <Tloo-ZaRaZa> suggest me two-pannel editor for transtating pls. win/crossplatform
13:25:49  <planetmaker> hu?
13:26:14  <Ammler> notepad++
13:26:37  <Terkhen> notepad++ has two panel support, yes
13:27:07  <Ammler> now it depends what you mean with crossplatform
13:27:37  <Tloo-ZaRaZa> i have notepad++ never known about two panels O_o
13:27:50  <Terkhen> I'm now using geany both in linux and in windows :P
13:27:59  <Terkhen> Tloo-ZaRaZa: you had to activate a plugin or something like that IIRC
13:28:14  <Terkhen> or maybe it was an option when right clicking on a opened archive's label
13:28:26  <Terkhen> I'm not on windows so I can't test, sorry
13:29:16  <Tloo-ZaRaZa> found. rmb on tab -> to another window
13:30:00  <Terkhen> ok :)
13:31:20  <Tloo-ZaRaZa> then view -> syncronize scrolling, and it's that what i wanted
13:31:27  <bodis> thanks planetmaker
13:31:30  <planetmaker> yw
13:32:15  <Ammler> bodis: please check the id, before you start working with
13:32:27  <Ammler> ah
13:32:32  <Ammler> planetmaker: made a 2nd
13:32:42  <bodis> yes thanks :)
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14:07:52  <Tloo-ZaRaZa> omg. Duke Nukem forever released?! 13 years!
14:08:39  <Tloo-ZaRaZa> if it was opensource like OTTD it could be nice fps)
14:10:13  <Terkhen> there are a lot of open sourced engines for FPS already
14:37:40  <V453000> I liked dn3D quite a lot but I do not care about the "forever" at all tbh
14:43:57  <bodis> cya later all, home time
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15:31:41  <bodis> can you install PIL through command line through repos?
15:35:20  <bodis> done
15:35:22  <bodis> i think :)
15:36:14  <Yexo> python-imaging is a common name for the package
15:36:19  <bodis> yep
15:36:20  <bodis> done
15:36:24  <bodis> what about nml itself
15:36:31  <bodis> on repos?
15:36:40  <Yexo> nope
15:36:50  <Yexo> hg clone http://hg.openttdcoop.org/nml
15:36:54  <Yexo> to get the source
15:37:00  <Yexo> if you want "python setup.py install" after that
15:37:13  <bodis> ahh
15:37:18  <bodis> nice
15:40:59  <bodis> Yexo,
15:41:01  <bodis> * [planetmaker] magnet.oftc.net :Darmstadt, Germany
15:41:03  <bodis> damn
15:41:03  <bodis> :)
15:41:13  <bodis> File "setup.py", line 5, in <module>
15:41:14  <bodis>     from setuptools import setup
15:41:14  <bodis> ImportError: No module named setuptools
15:41:29  <Yexo> install python-setuptools first
15:43:58  <bodis> ok installed, thanks Yexo
15:44:05  <bodis> will ask how to run from here later L:)
15:44:27  <bodis> is nml download still needed?
15:44:30  <bodis> or bin it now?
15:45:11  <Yexo> if you've run python setup.py install succesfully you've already downloaded and installed it
15:45:22  <Yexo> oh, sorry, I misunderstood
15:45:43  <Yexo> keeping the directory around makes it easy to update, just "hg pull -u && python setup.py install" and you've updated it
15:46:20  <bodis> now now
15:46:24  <bodis> whats that hg pull
15:47:22  <Yexo> "hg pull" downloads the latest changes from the server to your computer, the "-u" argument is a shortcut for "hg update" to update to the last revision
15:48:24  <bodis> ok
15:49:17  <bodis> where do i run hg pull from
15:49:21  <bodis> terminal?
15:49:37  <Yexo> same where you ran hg clone
15:49:40  <Yexo> yes, terminal
15:50:06  <bodis> hmm bash hg command not found
15:50:20  <Yexo> <Yexo> hg clone http://hg.openttdcoop.org/nml <- but that did work?
15:51:01  <bodis> didnt download it
15:51:05  <bodis> got nml from there
15:51:14  <bodis> hmm
15:51:16  <Yexo> where is "there"?
15:51:34  <bodis>  http://hg.openttdcoop.org/nml and pressed gz
15:51:50  <Yexo> ah, ok
15:51:56  <Yexo> well, you could do the same to update
15:52:11  <bodis> k :)
15:52:13  <Yexo> but if you downloaded it that way you can safely bin your nml directory after you installed it
15:52:27  <bodis> ok how often nml gets updated?
15:52:37  <bodis> do I have to update daily?
15:53:16  <bodis> so to get hg clone, which file do I download from that page?
15:53:26  <Yexo> nothing
15:53:32  <Yexo> hg is a command from the mercurial package
15:53:38  <Yexo> it's a version control system
15:54:01  <Yexo> basically you need to update nml when something you need isn't supported by the version you have
15:54:09  <Yexo> or when you encounter a bug and that bug has been fixed
15:54:21  <bodis> k
15:54:47  <bodis> so what was I supposed to do on the link you gave me?
15:54:48  <Yexo> you can browse the updates here: https://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/nml/repository
15:55:00  <Yexo> run "hg clone http://hg.openttdcoop.org/nml" in a terminal
15:55:12  <Yexo> but you need hg (=mercurial) for that
15:55:58  <bodis> just basic mercurial package?
15:56:07  <Yexo> yes
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15:58:27  <bodis> 210 files updated, 0 files merged, 0 files removed, 0 files unresolved
15:59:07  <bodis> do I have top rerun install setup.py after that?
16:02:05  <Yexo> you can, doesn't matter at this time
16:02:12  <Yexo> since you already installed the last version
16:02:17  <bodis> yes
16:02:21  <bodis> thanks Yexo
16:02:30  <bodis> sorry to be a pain
16:02:34  <Yexo> hmm, running install now will make "nmlc --version" report the correct version
16:02:38  <Yexo> so perhaps that is a good idea
16:02:52  <bodis> k
16:04:19  <bodis> r1392 (73a236d70014)
16:04:20  <bodis> Library versions encountered:
16:04:20  <bodis> PIL: 1.1.7
16:04:20  <bodis> PLY: 3.3
16:04:27  <bodis> is that what should be reported
16:04:39  <Yexo> yes :)
16:05:04  <bodis> thank you :)
16:46:09  <Terkhen> hmm... sorry but I can't understand much of the grf2nml big diff :(
17:03:13  <bodis> so I have installed nml
17:03:16  <bodis> what is next?
17:03:50  <bodis> create nml file and write code in it?
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17:05:33  <Yexo> yes
17:05:53  <bodis> text("2e Vlotbrug", 1),
17:05:59  <bodis> what does 2e mean?
17:06:13  <Yexo> it's part of the text, it means "second"
17:06:27  <bodis> text("īt Bergje", 1),
17:06:29  <bodis> 't?
17:06:46  <bodis> I see that is what would actually be visible in game as well?
17:06:54  <Yexo> yes
17:06:59  <bodis> not some sort of variable or anything
17:07:03  <bodis> k
17:07:29  <bodis> would lithuanian alphabet be compatible with nml?
17:07:32  <Yexo> sorry I can't help you more now, but I have to go
17:07:40  <bodis> k thanks for everything
17:07:42  <Yexo> any alphabet is compatible, just make sure to use utf-8 as encoding
17:07:50  <bodis> k
17:10:10  <Brot6> nml: update from r1385 to r1392 done - http://bundles.openttdcoop.org/nml/nightlies/r1392
17:17:26  <Brot6> Following repos didn't need a nightlies update: 2cctrainset (r750), 32bpp-extra (r40), ai-admiralai (r75), ai-aroai (r39), ailib-common (r21), ailib-direction (r17), ailib-list (r32), ailib-string (r29), ailib-tile (r16), airportsplus (r93), basecosts (r25), belarusiantowns (r8), bros (r52), chips (r141), comic-houses (r71), firs (r1999), fish (r653), frenchtowns (r6), german-townnames (r34), grfcodec (r830), grfpack (r279), heqs
17:17:26  <Brot6> (r605), indonesiantowns (r41), manindu (r7), metrotrackset (r56), narvs (r37), newgrf_makefile (r294), nml (r1392), nutracks (r201), ogfx-industries (r119), ogfx-landscape (r69), ogfx-rv (r107), ogfx-trains (r241), ogfx-trees (r49), opengfx (r673), openmsx (r97), opensfx (r97), smts (r19), snowlinemod (r49), spanishtowns (r10), sub-landscape (ERROR r66), sub-opengfx (ERROR r666), swedishrails (r202), swisstowns (r22), transrapidtrackset
17:17:28  <Brot6> (r15), ttdviewer (r34), ttrs (r36), worldairlinersset (r672)
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17:23:37  <Brot6> sub-landscape: compile of r66 still failed (#2616) - http://bundles.openttdcoop.org/sub-landscape/nightlies/ERROR/r66
17:24:20  <Brot6> sub-opengfx: compile of r666 still failed (#2586) - http://bundles.openttdcoop.org/sub-opengfx/nightlies/ERROR/r666
17:25:11  <Brot6> Following repos rebuilds successful without any difference to earlier nightlies builds: airportsplus (Diffsize: 12), belarusiantowns (Diffsize: 30), frenchtowns, german-townnames, indonesiantowns (1 errors) (Diffsize: 1), manindu (Diffsize: 1), narvs, newgrf_makefile, ogfx-industries, ogfx-landscape (Diffsize: 21), ogfx-rv, ogfx-trains (Diffsize: 813), spanishtowns (Diffsize: 1), swedishrails (Diffsize: 385), swisstowns
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19:21:03  <Brot6> repository /home/hg/lithuanian-townnames registered in Redmine with url /home/hg/lithuanian-townnames
19:21:03  <Brot6> repository /home/hg/lithuanian-townnames created
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21:30:33  <Brot6> FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Revision 2000:f1a5111bffba: Change: improve Machine Shop appearan... (andythenorth) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/firs/repository/revisions/f1a5111bffba
21:30:40  <andythenorth> ^ r2k
21:30:46  <andythenorth> no fanfar :P
21:30:51  <andythenorth> fanfare /s
21:30:54  <Terkhen> :)
21:31:38  * andythenorth -> bed
21:31:41  <andythenorth> night
21:31:56  <Terkhen> andythenorth: don't forget to update the description
21:31:58  <Terkhen> good night :)
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21:33:13  <Ammler> planetmaker: maybe you made the repo for the other (wrong spelled) town names grf?
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21:46:19  <planetmaker> hm, Ammler ?
21:46:44  <planetmaker> I deleted that long before that. Probably I didn't press 'save' on the page
21:48:59  <Ammler> well, I didn't read the whole backlog
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