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Log for #openttdcoop.devzone on 22nd August 2011:
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07:11:06  <Brot6> Unrealistic Trainset - Feature #2978: The Arc Train (V453000) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/2978#change-7558
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12:52:55  <andythenorth> hola
12:52:58  <andythenorth> queir
12:53:02  <andythenorth> quiet even
12:54:31  <Rubidium> ahoj
12:55:02  <michi_cc> andythenorth: All the energy went into the commit surge :)
12:56:43  <andythenorth> moi aussi
12:57:07  <andythenorth> so many new features recently
13:06:19  * andythenorth considers cargo aging for hovercraft
13:07:02  * andythenorth considers aging cargo very rapidly for vehicles that are fast, but make PAX sick
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14:12:34  <dihedral> andythenorth, why?
14:43:19  <Brot6> DictatorAI - Revision 154:375edd91b30f: - many many changes related still to rail station of course (krinn) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/ai-dictator/repository/revisions/375edd91b30f
15:52:22  <planetmaker> andythenorth: what would be the adv. to age cargo / pax faster on faster ships?
15:52:28  <planetmaker> hello also :-)
15:56:16  <andythenorth> planetmaker: game balance maybe?   I have't really thought it through
15:56:25  <andythenorth> why aren't hovercraft used everywhere?
15:56:43  <planetmaker> you haven't seen my pax games where I use ships ;-)
15:57:00  <planetmaker> they're just not usable for the BIG cargo moving
15:57:03  <planetmaker> as they're too small
15:57:17  <michi_cc> andythenorth: Because the real world has something called waves :)
15:57:23  <andythenorth> exactamly :P
15:57:39  <andythenorth> hovercraft are fast, stinky, noisy, bouncy, and use a reasonable amount of kerosene
15:57:51  <planetmaker> but they're brilliant for the kinda small city hopping and inner-city transport like in venice ;-)
15:58:05  <planetmaker> which should result in higher running costs ;-)
15:58:12  <planetmaker> but not people paying less ;-)
15:59:21  <andythenorth> I haven't looked at the cargo aging yet
16:00:41  <planetmaker> the point with ships is: they travel at their design speed. They cannot wait in traffic jams or on red signals, they cannot circle a holding pattern
16:01:15  <planetmaker> thus I think cargo aging might not be too useful for ships - unless to differenciate different ships wrt a single cargo
16:01:39  <planetmaker> i.e. trying to "force" players to use A for pax and B for cargo while both ships travel the same speed and may carry both
16:12:59  <andythenorth> the most obvious application is for refrigerated ships for food
16:13:07  <andythenorth> and maybe specialist livestock ships
16:13:17  <andythenorth> oh - also passenger luxury liners vs. ferries
16:14:31  <planetmaker> yes. those indeed
16:14:47  <planetmaker> the dedicated versions should age the cargo slower - or the others faster
16:14:58  <planetmaker> maybe slower is the better choice as it keeps compatibility
16:15:02  <planetmaker> with other sets
16:15:36  <andythenorth> slower is better
16:17:41  <planetmaker> yup
16:17:53  <planetmaker> ^ Terkhen we might want to do the same actually with ogfx+
16:18:05  <planetmaker> slowing down aging in dedicated vehicles
16:20:20  * andythenorth ponders speeding up *some* vehicles
16:20:37  <andythenorth> e.g. passenger ferries where there is no protection from the weather
16:20:37  <Rubidium> oh there it comes...
16:20:44  <Rubidium> negative speed fractions
16:21:32  <planetmaker> :-)
16:21:56  <andythenorth> Rubidium: wrong use of 'speeding up' there by me :P
16:26:32  <Rubidium> was meant as a reference to vehicle shortening
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17:20:46  <Brot6> firs: update from r2494 to r2495 done - http://bundles.openttdcoop.org/firs/nightlies/r2495
17:22:21  <Brot6> Following repos didn't need a nightlies update: ogfx-trains (r251), narvs (ERROR r38), bros (r52), ogfx-industries (r122), opengfx (r727), ailib-tile (r16), foobarstramtracks (r23), transrapidtrackset (r28), 2cctrainset (r750), cets (r126), ailib-list (r32), opensfx (r97), ttdviewer (r34), worldairlinersset (r672), heqs (r639), openmsx (r97), basecosts (r25), nutracks (r208), nml (r1627), water-features (r51), 32bpp-extra (r40), manindu
17:22:21  <Brot6> (r7), newgrf_makefile (r305), ailib-direction (r17), ailib-common (r21), snowlinemod (r49), dutchtramset (r87), ai-admiralai (r75), swisstowns (r22), metrotrackset (r56), dutchroadfurniture (r12), spanishtowns (r10), frenchtowns (r6), grfpack (r279), ogfx-rv (r109), fish (r684), ogfx-landscape (r78), ttrs (r36), ogfx-trees (r51), swedishrails (r205), grfcodec (r833), ai-aroai (r39), german-townnames (r34), smts (r19), chips (r143),
17:22:23  <Brot6> belarusiantowns (r8), indonesiantowns (r41), ailib-string (r29), airportsplus (r122), comic-houses (r71)
17:23:02  <Brot6> narvs: compile of r38 still failed (#2983) - http://bundles.openttdcoop.org/narvs/nightlies/ERROR/r38
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17:28:42  <Brot6> Following repos rebuilds successful without any difference to earlier nightlies builds: ogfx-landscape (1 warnings), swedishrails, german-townnames (Diffsize: 1), belarusiantowns (Diffsize: 30), indonesiantowns (1 warnings) (Diffsize: 1)
17:29:50  <andythenorth> bbl
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18:09:36  <frosch123> http://www.tt-wiki.net/wiki/NMLTutorial#Example <- haha, the comparison is kind of unfair when 70% of the code are escape sequence definitions :p
18:09:37  <Webster> Title: NMLTutorial - TTWiki (at www.tt-wiki.net)
18:11:37  <Ammler> frosch123: youself said once, those are mandatory ;-)
18:12:27  <frosch123> well, but i also discourage from any kind of wordwrapping
18:12:41  <frosch123> lines with 200 and more columns are perfectly fine
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18:21:05  * Rubidium wonders why PNG is the most notable "other image format" for NML in a NML vs NFO comparison
18:28:19  <Ammler> Rubidium: because nml does not work with pcx?
18:39:41  <Ammler> what happens, if version is higher as min_compatible_version in same grf?
18:39:56  <Ammler> lower*
18:42:12  <frosch123> the grf author is shot
18:43:00  <Ammler> well, it happens, if you use vcs and follow guides
18:43:20  <Ammler> there most say, use 1 but vcs start with 0 :-)
18:43:54  <frosch123> then you should fix that in revision 1 :p
18:44:31  <Ammler> then you don't need to "fix" it anymore :-)
18:46:23  <Ammler> also what for is TTD_STR_CARGO_PLURAL_NOTHING
18:50:15  <frosch123> as the name says: for nothing
18:56:02  <Rubidium> Ammler: the text implies that nfo/grfcodec don't support PNG
18:56:48  <frosch123> which might have been true when the text was written :)
18:57:24  <Rubidium> maybe, but now it doesn't support PCX anymore?
18:57:42  <Ammler> the windows version doesn't anymore yes
18:57:54  <Ammler> pil issue
19:03:26  <Brot6> clientpatches: compile of r22815 still failed (#2964) - http://bundles.openttdcoop.org/clientpatches/testing/ERROR/r22815
19:08:28  <Brot6> openttd-vehiclevars: update from r22805 to r22815 done - http://bundles.openttdcoop.org/openttd-vehiclevars/testing/r22815
19:09:03  <planetmaker> is it just me or is this "Darker" guy a slight nuissance?
19:09:44  <Brot6> serverpatches: compile of r22815 still failed (#2966) - http://bundles.openttdcoop.org/serverpatches/testing/ERROR/r22815
19:11:19  <Brot6> 32bpp-ez-patches: compile of r22815 still failed (#2446) - http://bundles.openttdcoop.org/32bpp-ez-patches/testing/ERROR/r22815
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19:51:50  <Brot6> OpenGFX - Bug #2987: glitch with food processor (oberhuemer) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/2987#change-7559
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20:11:30  <frosch123> someone wants to catch the "not supported by openttd" in the description of vehicle var c0 ? :p
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20:34:37  <michi_cc> frosch123: As nice as those version tags are, I'm not sure if that one is a good idea...
20:35:21  <frosch123> hmm? which one?
20:35:47  <michi_cc> The TTDP rev specification for C0 wagons.
20:36:06  <frosch123> ok, you mean the before or after?
20:36:13  <frosch123> yeah that is always tricky
20:36:39  <michi_cc> Yeah, the 'not valid before' bit
20:36:52  <frosch123> should it be "Engine ages in days" and "{{ottdp}} Also valid for wagons" ?
20:38:58  <michi_cc> I'm not even sure if I understand the spec completely. My interpretation would be that a TTDP pre-alpha 61 save with some wagons loaded into TTDP after-alpha 61 will still have invalid values for the old wagons but valid values for newly bought wagons.
20:39:20  <frosch123> michi_cc: they are just zero
20:39:32  <frosch123> ottd still behave liks ttd, as in wagons are not aged at all
20:39:35  <frosch123> ttdp added it somehwen
20:40:14  <michi_cc> Okay, so switch the negation me thinks, i.e your suggestions
20:42:16  <frosch123> do you know when "cmp" sets the carry flag?
20:42:34  <frosch123> > or >= or something like that?
20:42:37  <michi_cc> You mean the x86 instruction, right?
20:44:24  <frosch123> yes
20:45:04  <frosch123> nvm. the == case cannot happen anyway :)
20:45:10  <michi_cc> For CMP A,B the carry flag is set if (unsigned)A > (unsigned)B (unsigned underflow)
20:47:15  <michi_cc> So generally CF means unsigned below, equal is zero flag set
20:47:55  <frosch123> just wanted to know whether the aging is done for articulated parts as well :)
20:48:22  <michi_cc> Hmm, than I've written the example wrong, didn't I? It's CMP B,A (stupid dest,source asm order :)
20:49:17  <frosch123> it's "dest = source" or "dest := source" in almost every language :p
20:49:32  <frosch123> only some support "dest <- source" and "source -> dest"
20:49:55  <michi_cc> 68000 assembler is MOVE source,dest
20:50:40  <frosch123> i only programmed c51, avr and x86
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22:06:56  <Brot6> DictatorAI - Revision 155:8515bf2eee44: - ... (krinn) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/ai-dictator/repository/revisions/8515bf2eee44
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23:37:04  <Brot6> Unable to connect to http://dev.openttdcoop.org/sys/: execution expired
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