Log for #openttdcoop.devzone on 1st September 2011:
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00:01:11  <Brot6> OpenGFX - Bug #3023 (New): check possible clipping of reverse cone tree (toyland) (planetmaker) @
00:49:20  <Brot6> DictatorAI - Revision 180:0bcedd08202e: - Disabling compatibility for rail stations for now (krinn) @
06:54:53  <Brot6> OpenGFX - Bug #3023 (Closed): check possible clipping of reverse cone tree (toyland) (planetmaker) @
06:54:53  <Brot6> OpenGFX - Revision 732:dc80ecff7d5b: Fix #3023: Reverse cone tree was clipped (planetmaker) @
06:54:53  <Brot6> OpenGFX - Bug #3023 (Closed): check possible clipping of reverse cone tree (toyland) (planetmaker) @
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09:36:37  <planetmaker> hm... OpenGFX water features were mostly drawn by Leppka.
09:36:43  <planetmaker> He also drew NewWater
09:44:34  <planetmaker> I guess I should ask nevertheless whether I may re-use some of its sprites.
10:11:19  <andythenorth> planetmaker: when shall we release FIRS 0.7.0?
10:11:31  <andythenorth> end of September?
10:12:02  <planetmaker> I didn't really think about that. But could be, yes
10:13:15  <Yexo> you might want to wait a bit longer (or until FS#2966) is fixed
10:13:45  <Yexo> as soon as you upload FIRS 0.7.0 to bananas with openttd 1.2.0 as minimum version, openttd users with version 1.1 won't see FIRS in their download list at all
10:14:03  <andythenorth> ok
10:14:08  <planetmaker> yeah...
10:14:14  <planetmaker> that's a backdraw of bananas
10:14:23  <planetmaker> then 0.7 is for December :-P
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10:15:12  <andythenorth> it's possible I won't release 0.7.0 to bananas
10:16:25  <Yexo> andythenorth: the release topic has a link to the development and translations thread
10:16:42  <Yexo> the first link in that post is to lang/7F_any.pnfo
10:16:45  <andythenorth> oh
10:17:02  <andythenorth> poop
10:17:36  <andythenorth> better fix that
10:17:59  <andythenorth> it should link where instead?
10:18:25  <andythenorth>
10:18:26  <andythenorth> ?
10:18:36  <Yexo> yes
10:19:16  <Yexo> or maybe since that can be viewed in a browser
10:19:37  <andythenorth> ok
10:19:39  <andythenorth> thanks
10:20:47  <andythenorth> so we might skip the 0.7.0 bananas release and provide 0.7.1 or 0.7.2 or such
10:21:06  <andythenorth> I want to code freeze 0.7.0 ideally within a couple of weeks
10:28:29  <planetmaker> ok, that's a solution. Not bananify the 0.7.0 until Dec 24
10:28:56  <planetmaker> bananas needs work :S
10:34:35  <andythenorth> we'll be at 0.8.x by december :P
10:34:44  <andythenorth> bananas lacks developers
10:36:14  <Yexo> if you seriously think you can reach 0.8 by december, why not delay 0.7 until those 0.8 features have been included?
10:36:40  <andythenorth> release early...release often?
10:38:16  <planetmaker> without bananas it's not quite a full release ;-)
10:38:54  <planetmaker> it's all like the testing releases of OpenTTD maybe
10:47:03  <Yexo> I agree with "release early, release often", but in this case if you don't upload it to bananas it's hardly a full release
10:47:11  <Yexo> and we already have the nightlies that are available for non-bananas users
10:48:25  <andythenorth> so I agree about bananas
10:48:42  <andythenorth> but for me release is also about code freeze, closing a milestone, and deciding what tickets to pull
10:49:29  <Yexo> only ticket left for 0.7 is "german translation"
10:50:00  <andythenorth> + any other translations that are provided
10:55:21  <planetmaker> well. Which I added to be reviewed in the days before release :-)
10:55:32  <planetmaker> or I touch strings all the time ;-)
11:39:19  <Ammler> @topic remove -1
11:39:25  <Ammler> @services op
11:39:25  *** ChanServ sets mode: +o Webster
11:39:26  <Ammler> @topic remove -1
11:39:26  *** Webster changes topic to "Talk about things hosted and developed on | Downloads log: | Sandbox passwords are the same as the usernames"
12:29:33  * andythenorth lacks patience
13:04:41  <Brot6> Central European Train Set - Feature #2924: Prussian steam engines - sprites (Eddi) @
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13:31:39  <Brot6> Central European Train Set - Feature #2924: Prussian steam engines - sprites (Eddi) @
13:43:36  <Brot6> FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Revision 2566:3f40b5edd07b: Codechange: never manually set the co... (yexo) @
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14:28:01  <Brot6> Unable to connect to Connection refused - connect(2)
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14:35:02  <Brot6> Unable to connect to Connection refused - connect(2)
14:37:41  <planetmaker_> hm...
14:42:01  <Brot6> Unable to connect to Connection refused - connect(2)
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14:47:04  * Hirundo shall not quote about bouncer stability
14:47:39  * andythenorth is not smart enough to use a bouncer
14:47:47  <andythenorth> it's quite complex
14:51:28  <planetmaker_> works like IRC. Just another server
14:52:16  <Ammler-> Hirundo: :-P
14:54:54  <Ammler-> andythenorth: it is still quite more stable as your account ;-)
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15:29:26  <Brot6> Central European Train Set - Revision 127:cc7eef917576: apply some currency factors (Eddi) @
15:29:26  <Brot6> Central European Train Set - Revision 128:10f077c3ef68: add prussian T12 and S4 to core (Eddi) @
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17:12:19  <planetmaker> see you later
17:21:25  <Brot6> firs: update from r2563 to r2566 done -
17:23:34  <Brot6> opengfx: update from r730 to r732 done -
17:24:15  <Brot6> DictatorAI - Revision 181:f2e3ddfff676: - Raise funds before terraforming (krinn) @
17:25:22  <Brot6> Central European Train Set - Bug #3024 (New): DevZone compile failed (compiler) @
17:26:10  <Brot6> Following repos didn't need a nightlies update: ogfx-trains (r251), narvs (r52), bros (r52), ogfx-industries (r123), ailib-tile (r16), foobarstramtracks (r23), transrapidtrackset (r28), 2cctrainset (r750), ailib-list (r32), opensfx (r97), ttdviewer (r34), worldairlinersset (r672), heqs (r639), openmsx (r97), basecosts (r25), nutracks (r208), nml (r1653), water-features (r51), 32bpp-extra (r40), manindu (r7), newgrf_makefile (r305), ailib-direction
17:26:10  <Brot6> (r17), ailib-common (r21), snowlinemod (r49), dutchtramset (r87), ai-admiralai (r75), swisstowns (r22), metrotrackset (r56), dutchroadfurniture (r12), spanishtowns (r10), frenchtowns (r6), grfpack (r279), ogfx-rv (r109), fish (r684), ogfx-landscape (r82), ttrs (r36), ogfx-trees (r51), swedishrails (r206), grfcodec (r833), ai-aroai (r49), german-townnames (r34), smts (r19), chips (r143), belarusiantowns (r8), indonesiantowns (r41), ailib-string
17:26:12  <Brot6> (r29), airportsplus (r134), comic-houses (r71)
17:40:19  <Brot6> Central European Train Set - Feature #2924: Prussian steam engines - sprites (oberhuemer) @
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18:08:32  <Brot6> FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Revision 2567:5d1ee16eded2: Codechange: forgot one instance in r2566 (yexo) @
18:09:36  <Brot6> NewGRF Meta Language - Revision 1654:5e8f5aba53d3: Change #2370: only the NOCROP bit is still val... (yexo) @
18:10:34  <Brot6> OpenGFX+ Airports - Revision 135:eb96e81e4003: Codechange: never manually set the compression byt... (yexo) @
18:10:46  <Brot6> NewGRF Meta Language - Feature Request #2370 (Closed): review real sprite compression type (yexo) @
18:11:14  <Yexo> with nml r1654 FIRS shrunk from 917kb to 858kb
18:11:56  <andythenorth> good for bandwidth
18:12:19  <FooBar> nice feature
18:13:06  <FooBar> Are other compression values just ignored if an old nml file uses them?
18:13:14  <Yexo> no, they're now errors
18:13:26  * FooBar checks own grfs
18:13:54  <FooBar> I recall doing something with compression, it could have been "I don't care", but don't remember...
18:14:14  <Yexo> which project(ss) is/are that?
18:15:08  <Yexo> with changes like this I usually check a bunch of nml projects for failure, like all opengfx+ projects and firs
18:16:49  <FooBar> Don't remember that either. But as far as I could see right quick I opted for the "don't care" when faced with the decision to use compression or not
18:17:16  <FooBar> So I think whatever I worked on is still good
18:17:28  <Yexo> nml already used compression (unless you specially opt out using NOCROP or a command line flag)
18:17:57  <Yexo> there are just two ways to encode a sprite before compression it. "TILE" encoding and "NORMAL" encoding
18:18:06  <Yexo> nml now choses the one that results in the smallest output
18:18:18  <andythenorth> is compression lossless?
18:18:22  <FooBar> well, that's what I meant by "compression" ;)
18:18:27  <Yexo> openttd doesn't care, it can load both types and will convert the sprites to it's own format during loading
18:18:29  <Yexo> andythenorth: yes
18:18:32  <andythenorth> is it just a choice of two algorithms
18:18:35  <Brot6> Central European Train Set - Revision 129:cbb5f2deaf19: if you move the ICE1 from DB to DBAG, do ... (Eddi) @
18:18:40  <andythenorth> the most efficient will vary by contents of sprite?
18:18:51  <Yexo> for ttdpatch there might be a small performance impact if the wrong type is chosen, but I don't care about that
18:18:53  <Yexo> andythenorth: yes
18:19:25  <Yexo> "TILE" is for sprites that have long rows of transparent pixels, like groundtile sprites
18:20:17  <FooBar> Anyways, an email will notify me tomorrow in case I need to change something :)
18:20:55  <FooBar> But filesize reductions are always good
18:22:10  <Brot6> cets: update from r126 to r129 done (436 warnings) -
18:27:46  <Brot6> NewGRF Meta Language - Feature Request #1760: Improve documentation on getting nml up & running (foobar) @
18:29:14  <Brot6> NewGRF Meta Language - Feature Request #1760 (Closed): Improve documentation on getting nml up & ... (yexo) @
18:33:12  <Hirundo> Yexo: Agreed, it needs good documentation though so users don't try switch(..) {1: spriteset_4sprites; 2: spriteset_5sprites}
18:33:53  <Yexo> if we have code to loop through all switches we can detect that and give a proper error message
18:34:04  <Hirundo> Indeed
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18:44:11  <Brot6> NewGRF Meta Language - Bug #2785: problem with spritelayout parameters (yexo) @
18:46:00  <Hirundo> FooBar: <- what's wrong with returning the same value as the action0 property from the purchase_cargo_capacity callback?
18:46:27  <Brot6> Central European Train Set - Revision 130:90ef9f628959: also add the ES9 to core (Eddi) @
18:51:21  <FooBar> Hirundo: having to set the value twice. That gets really annoying if you copy one tram and want to modify it to create another. Those things are easily forgotten and then you have to go back and fix it again after complaints and such.
18:51:55  <Yexo> frosch123: could you take a look at newgrf_generic.cpp: GenericCallbackGetVariable ?
18:52:11  <Yexo> vars 40, 80 and 81 all return cargo_type, I'm quite sure some of that is wrong
18:52:17  <Yexo> but not sure how to fix it
18:52:25  <Hirundo> If you set the purchase cargo callback, then the property value is basically bogus
18:52:52  <Yexo> don't set the property at all and only use the callback?
18:52:55  <FooBar> Hmmm, that's also true...
18:52:56  <Hirundo> You could just set it to 1 (to avoid various quirks associated with 0) and forget about it
18:53:28  <Yexo> not setting it would default to 0, which in this case is indeed a problem
18:54:01  <FooBar> But I still think it should be possible not to call that callback in the purchase menu at all. Having it for no actual reason still feels wrong to me.
18:54:05  <Hirundo> It would default to something that might change depending on engine ID
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18:54:16  <Hirundo> I've been thinking about it too
18:54:31  <Hirundo> It seemed like a smart thing at that time to avoid having to declare a callback twice
18:55:06  <Yexo> I think the problem in general is unsolvable
18:55:13  <FooBar> Well, it is still smart. As in a lot of cases you want the same callback in both.
18:55:17  <Yexo> for some callbacks we want the same for menu/normal, so it avoids duplication
18:55:40  <Yexo> in some cases like this when we don't want a callback in one it's a small problem
18:56:22  <Yexo> FooBar: we should fix the problem so you can write "purchase_cargo_capacity: CB_FAILED;" which nml can than optimize not to write that callback at all
18:56:34  <FooBar> I'm in favour of something like  *purchase_cargo_capacity: DISABLE;*
18:56:45  <FooBar> or that indeed
18:57:16  <FooBar> To me that seems to be the best long-term solution.
18:57:17  <Yexo> DISABLE is more clear here, but CB_FAILED is the thing we already use for similar purposes in other places
18:57:31  <Hirundo> That should be already possible
18:57:45  <FooBar> yes, CB_FAILED should indeed be possible now
18:58:48  <FooBar> Don't remember why I chose to do it like this.
18:59:16  <Yexo> because CB_FAILED didn't work at the time of writing the tutorial
18:59:27  <Yexo> and I suggested this as temporary alternative which works the same
19:02:12  <FooBar> yes, that must have been it. I remember something like that :)
19:03:38  <Brot6> clientpatches: compile of r22864 still failed (#2964) -
19:08:37  <Brot6> openttd-vehiclevars: update from r22860 to r22864 done -
19:09:51  * andythenorth thinks it would be nice to fence more industries
19:10:18  <Brot6> serverpatches: compile of r22864 still failed (#2966) -
19:10:24  <frosch123> Yexo: <- i guess something like that
19:10:33  <frosch123> also contains some other fix with grffile being misused
19:11:52  <Brot6> 32bpp-ez-patches: compile of r22864 still failed (#2446) -
19:12:12  <Yexo> if grffile->cargo_map always valid even if a grf didn't define a cargotable?
19:12:20  <frosch123> yes
19:12:32  <Yexo> ok :)
19:12:34  <frosch123> it is the inverse of a cargotable
19:12:35  <Yexo> looks good
19:33:15  <Yexo> Add a new parameter to FIRS for fixing the station rating at 100%
19:33:48  <Yexo> might not be a good idea to include it
19:33:54  <Yexo> I mostly wanted to write it to test that callback
19:43:24  <Ammler> maybe enable it only, if debug mode is on?
19:45:02  <Yexo> imo that is worse than the current solution, since it means users will turn debug mode on just for the effect and then will get other debug mode effects they don't need/want
19:48:43  <frosch123> hmm, that would be an interesting feature for manual industries :)
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19:59:49  <andythenorth> Yexo: heh
20:00:12  <andythenorth> I am 60% convinced that station rating is currently annoying
20:00:52  <andythenorth> I guess it does make me try and service the station better
20:01:31  <andythenorth> but unless your play style is 'flood the map with high-density maglev network using newest trains' then ratings are lame
20:01:36  <andythenorth> mine are usually 'very poor'
20:02:11  <Yexo> if you make sure there is always a train loading (and as such, no or very little cargo waiting) the ratings are already quite good
20:04:19  <andythenorth> I don't do that :)
20:10:56  <andythenorth> bye
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20:34:48  <Brot6> NewGRF Meta Language - Feature Request #2878: parameters to strings (yexo) @
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21:06:25  <Brot6> Unrealistic Trainset - Feature #3025 (New): Monorail ICE Series (V453000) @
21:07:29  <Brot6> Unrealistic Trainset - Feature #3025: Monorail ICE Series (V453000) @
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21:34:35  <Brot6> Central European Train Set - Revision 131:1488ee0d3a7d: Added template code for 3 lu and 5 lu (oberhuemer) @
21:38:06  <Brot6> Central European Train Set - Feature #2924: Prussian steam engines - sprites (oberhuemer) @
21:41:38  <Brot6> Central European Train Set - Feature #2763: track classes / railtype support (oberhuemer) @
21:42:48  <Brot6> Central European Train Set - Feature #2924: Prussian steam engines - sprites (oberhuemer) @
21:42:48  <Brot6> Central European Train Set - Feature #2763: track classes / railtype support (oberhuemer) @
21:43:18  <Brot6> Central European Train Set - Feature #2924: Prussian steam engines - sprites (oberhuemer) @
21:44:19  <Brot6> NewGRF Meta Language - Revision 1655:10133f154660: Feature #2968: print 'FEAT_XYZ' instead of a n... (yexo) @
21:44:19  <Brot6> NewGRF Meta Language - Feature Request #2968 (Closed): improved error message (yexo) @
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22:31:35  <Brot6> NewGRF Meta Language - Revision 1656:24f7f228e9c9: Fix r1654: grf output was broken (yexo) @
22:32:01  <Brot6> Central European Train Set - Feature #2763: track classes / railtype support (Eddi) @
22:35:11  <Brot6> Central European Train Set - Revision 132:42a8019de874: make it easier to change vehicle length s... (Eddi) @
22:35:11  <Brot6> Central European Train Set - Revision 133:81dbbc1698c7: remove length rounding from, ... (Eddi) @
22:35:11  <Brot6> Central European Train Set - Revision 134:b0970a36cfea: quick hack to avoid 14lu vehicles, which ... (Eddi) @
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22:54:12  <Brot6> Central European Train Set - Feature #2924: Prussian steam engines - sprites (Eddi) @
23:12:04  <Brot6> Central European Train Set - Revision 135:8c5169a60985: add prussian P4.1 to core (Eddi) @
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