Log for #openttdcoop.devzone on 31st October 2011:
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01:10:43  <Brot6> Central European Train Set - Feature #3199: Narrow gauge (oberhuemer) @
06:01:43  <Brot6> DACH Trains - Revision 15:d05cf3e02967 (officercrockey) @
06:03:00  <Brot6> dach: update from r12 to r15 done (11 warnings) -
09:51:29  *** ODM has joined #openttdcoop.devzone
11:20:40  *** FooBar has joined #openttdcoop.devzone
11:21:49  <FooBar> Yexo: in addition to my pm reply, if you prefer to add it to the repo I can push what I have so far
11:22:12  <planetmaker> hm?
11:22:20  <Yexo> no, via pm is fine
11:22:27  <Yexo> I didn't know you were already working on the repo
11:22:35  <Yexo> but I still need some grf to work on
11:22:35  <FooBar> ok, thanks!
11:22:38  <Yexo> is the last version on bananas?
11:22:48  <FooBar> yes, that's the one
11:23:00  <Yexo> and there are no nicely split graphics files anywhere?
11:23:15  <FooBar> not that I know of
11:23:20  <Yexo> ok, great
11:23:24  <FooBar> I believe most of that stuff is to be considered "lost"
11:23:32  <planetmaker> not even in the existing repo? I wonder that DJN worked without...
11:23:38  <Yexo> that means we don't lose anything by decompiling the grf
11:23:47  <Yexo> planetmaker: no, the repo misses quite some files
11:23:53  <planetmaker> you might want to try contact DJN.
11:23:57  <Yexo> it has separate nfo files but no single file that includes the smaller ones
11:23:58  <FooBar> There are /some/ graphics in that repo
11:24:00  <planetmaker> but... he's also 'lost'
11:24:12  <Yexo> more trouble than it's worth
11:24:17  <FooBar> djn also worked from a decoded grf to get the graphics
11:24:24  <planetmaker> k
11:24:40  <FooBar> I think, as there's such a decoded pcx file in the repo :P
11:24:55  <planetmaker> "fantastic"
11:25:19  <FooBar> yes, that is indeed great
11:25:44  <FooBar> whenever it comes to realigning I think I will recruit some people to put the graphics in the pikka templates
11:25:54  <planetmaker> :-)
11:26:00  <Yexo> Dutch_)Trainset-1.tar is the last version?
11:26:30  <FooBar> Let me check right quick
11:27:00  <Yexo> it has a CC-ND license, that is problematic
11:27:10  <FooBar> this one should be it:
11:27:14  <Yexo> the -NC part I don't care about
11:27:17  <Yexo> FooBar: great, that's the one I have
11:27:21  <FooBar> yeah, I know about the license
11:27:29  <FooBar> I don't care either :P
11:27:58  <FooBar> I'm just not going to add graphics of which there is no specific gpl permission
11:28:40  <Yexo> so we're going to work on: everything from now on is gpl, everything older might be, some parts might not
11:28:42  <Yexo> is that right?
11:28:50  <FooBar> yes
11:29:34  <FooBar> from you conversion I plan to use the spritesets/groups with alignments
11:30:07  <FooBar> callbacks and stuff are done wrong in the existing grf, so they would need redoing anyways
11:30:40  <planetmaker> hm, good idea to just use the spritesets / groups :-)
11:30:55  <planetmaker> though you still got to name them (to know what they mean)
11:31:22  <Yexo> grf version 5 :o
11:31:32  <FooBar> yuk
11:31:56  <planetmaker> we all know how well people understood the use of 'grf version'...
11:32:02  <FooBar> it's probably set to the wrong version
11:33:26  <FooBar> by the way, is there an existing script that takes a table of vehicle properties and outputs it in nml format?
11:34:41  <planetmaker> yes and no. CETS it completely meta-programmed
11:35:19  <FooBar> what about the "no"?
11:35:29  <planetmaker> it might do much more than you want
11:35:37  <FooBar> ah :)
11:35:50  <FooBar> It most likely will if it's completely meta-programmed as you say
11:36:04  <FooBar> I still like to understand what I'm doing :P
11:36:20  <planetmaker> input: an export of google docs, some sprites, some python scripts. output: grf
11:36:29  <planetmaker> ;-)
11:36:54  <planetmaker> within that project might give you something to canibalize, though
11:37:04  <planetmaker> provided you want to write python
11:37:18  <FooBar> Hmmm, I'll have a look
11:37:35  <FooBar> but I'm not quite sure that I want to write python :P
11:37:50  <planetmaker> don't ask me about details, ask Eddi.
11:38:19  <planetmaker> I just know that it magically works ;-)
11:40:10  <FooBar> interesting concept though
11:41:33  <Ammler>  <FooBar> [12:25:44] whenever it comes to realigning I think I will recruit some people to put the graphics in the pikka templates <-- the 2cc templates are nicer, imo
11:43:30  <Ammler> check 2cctrainset v2, just awesome alignments
11:44:33  <FooBar> while I can't comment on the alignments, the graphic templates themselves seem to be missing a guide where to put the actual vehicle in the box
11:45:43  <Ammler> I can't comment on the guide, just the ingame looking :-P
11:45:48  <FooBar> :)
11:46:26  <FooBar> but I guess both can be used at the same time
11:48:02  <planetmaker> it should not pose a big difference to use different graphics templates
11:48:08  <planetmaker> *difficulty
11:48:17  <planetmaker> as long as it's not one per vehicle :-P
11:48:35  <Ammler> but that's teh case for pikka templates, isn't?
11:50:41  <FooBar> pikka has one per vehicle size, so one for 8/8, one for 7/8 etc. And some other stuff for reversed engines
11:51:33  <FooBar> the reversed might be useful, as I plan to add that for certain passenger trains
11:53:27  <FooBar> But this still can be decided later. I'm fine either way as long as I don't have to figure out the alignments
11:54:12  <Ammler> well, but then you have to decide, as those are different
11:56:09  <planetmaker> FooBar: there's a pattern how to derive reversed from normal ;-)
11:56:37  <planetmaker> you might want to prey on opengfx and opengfx+trains. It has some pikka templates
11:57:25  <planetmaker> at least wrt alignment. not necessarily all wrt sprite positions
11:57:26  <FooBar> have the opengfx ones been made understandable, rather than template(a,b,c,d,e,f,g,h,i,j,k)?
11:57:41  <FooBar> :P
11:57:48  <planetmaker> they've always been understandable ;-)
11:57:58  <FooBar> for you :P
11:58:12  <planetmaker> if you want to derive one from the other...
11:58:35  <planetmaker> it's a chain of templates... normally you only need the one with x,y coordinates of the 1st sprite ;-)
11:59:01  <FooBar> opengfx+trains templates are more my kind of thing
11:59:10  <planetmaker> thus read the templates backwards, too ;-)
12:00:59  <FooBar> I'll worry about that later. There's nothing templated at the moment anyways
12:02:10  <FooBar> I'm wondering though if we should do a 2cc version.
12:02:27  <Ammler> hmm, couldn't templates be part of the example newgrf?
12:02:41  <FooBar> That's way better for multiplayer purposes than fixed colours
12:03:17  <Ammler> then you do not need to make a dutch set
12:03:23  <Ammler> you can do that with 2cc set
12:03:31  <Yexo> a dutch set would have only dutch engines
12:03:35  <Yexo> that's different than the complete 2ccset
12:03:48  <Yexo> which should be more selective, ie not include every engine from the netherlands
12:04:12  <Ammler> but also the color is important imo
12:04:23  <Ammler> dutch set with 2cc is silly
12:04:36  <planetmaker> Ammler: templates could. Maybe should. But... it needs to be done...
12:04:53  <planetmaker> And FB certainly has a point, the templates could probably be slightly better documented
12:05:05  <planetmaker> a boring task, though ;-)
12:05:25  <Ammler> that is why it could be made for the example grf :-)
12:05:26  <Yexo> why would tuch set with 2cc be silly? By default it could use the yellow/blue recolouring but it could allow you to refit to real 2cc for mp games
12:05:52  <Ammler> Yexo: is that possible?
12:05:57  <planetmaker> sure
12:06:03  <Yexo> the recolouring can be set by a callback
12:06:04  <Ammler> didn't know
12:06:18  <Yexo> so default recolouring could be blue/yellow and ignore the cc completely
12:06:48  <Ammler> does the ukset it that way?
12:06:50  <Yexo> after a refit it could use exactly the same sprites but just let the recolour callback return the default recolour tables
12:06:57  <Yexo> I have no clue how the ukset does it
12:07:00  <Ammler> or nars, dunno anymore
12:10:28  <Yexo> the grf uses quite some features that my grf2nml script doesn't support yet
12:10:45  <Yexo> FooBar: are you sure you only want the spritesets / spritegroups?
12:11:19  <planetmaker> Just supply everything and have him cut out the unneeded cruft ;-)
12:11:28  <Yexo> if I could ignore all action0/random2/varaction2/action3 it'd make it trivial
12:11:34  <FooBar> sure? No. But those are the most important. If the rest is too much trouble, that please don't spend too much time on it :)
12:13:09  <FooBar> Everything the current script can generate is fine with me. I'll figure it out then.
12:28:00  <Yexo> FooBar: send you nml, lng and png file
12:28:10  <Yexo> I haven't tried to compile it at all
12:28:32  <Yexo> a few random action2's are completely missing from the nml, as are the livery overrides
12:28:36  <FooBar> Thanks a lot!
12:28:58  <FooBar> Doesn't matter if it doesn't compile, I'll figure it out :)
12:30:23  <FooBar> Yexo: appears the png file didn't make it...
12:31:41  <Yexo> forgot to click "upload' after picking the file I guess
12:31:51  <Yexo> added the nfo for reference
12:31:52  <FooBar> got it now, thanks!
12:33:50  <FooBar> heh, wrong palette, but that was easily fixed :)
12:48:05  <Brot6> Dutch Train Set - Revision 34:d58935b170aa: Change: move DJNekkid's work to 'old' folder. (foobar) @
12:48:05  <Brot6> Dutch Train Set - Revision 35:1fe1466ee223: Change: set up new repo structure for development of ... (foobar) @
12:48:05  <Brot6> Dutch Train Set - Revision 36:31d82c6cd60b: Add: NMLconverted version of 1.1 (Yexo) (foobar) @
12:48:07  <Brot6> Dutch Train Set - Revision 37:a21feb2aa1c2: Add: recent new graphics by Snail and Purno (foobar) @
13:57:48  <Ammler> FooBar: you know, how vcs works
13:57:54  <Ammler> moving something to old is so much lame
13:59:02  <planetmaker> :-) quite
13:59:12  <Ammler> (and ugly) :-)
13:59:55  <Ammler> also maybe it would have been better to start with a fresh repo
14:01:00  <Ammler> I now need to download the djn stuff also I never need it
14:01:34  <planetmaker> Ammler, it's the valid history...
14:01:43  <Ammler> not really
14:01:50  <Ammler> not history of foobar works
14:02:14  <Ammler> he proved that by moving djn stuff to old
14:07:02  <FooBar> yeah, I know how it works
14:07:23  <FooBar> but this is easier than updating to and old revision if I need some of DJN's stuff
14:07:38  <FooBar> once I'm sure I don't need it I'll remove it completely
14:08:08  <Ammler> well, it is in, you won't be able to remove it
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14:08:25  <FooBar> well, "hide" then :P
14:08:46  <FooBar> I understand that it will always be in older revisions
14:08:46  <Ammler> another prove :-P
14:09:02  <FooBar> still, this is easier until I'm sure that I don't need it any more
14:09:21  <FooBar> I'm sure you agree with that
14:09:46  <planetmaker> I understand it yes.
14:09:56  <planetmaker> And FIRS also still has the nfo. Though we didn't move it :-)
14:09:57  <Ammler> svn behavior
14:10:02  <planetmaker> We just kept the old stuff
14:10:38  <FooBar> well, it is what it is, whether you like it or not ;)
14:10:55  <Ammler> it is typical svn behavior
14:11:01  <planetmaker> why, Ammler ?
14:11:11  <Ammler> there you do checkout revisions or directories
14:11:16  <Ammler> with hg, it isn't possible
14:11:28  <planetmaker> imho it's hard to argue against "want to keep it for easy reference (without having a 2nd clone)"
14:11:30  <Ammler> you need to clone the whole repo
14:21:46  <FooBar> You rather suggest starting over then, with a new repo?
14:23:45  <planetmaker> I don't.
14:23:51  <planetmaker> I'd advise against :-)
14:24:27  <planetmaker> i.e. just continue as you had planned :-)
14:26:11  <Ammler> yes, it is silly to continue on a repo where you do not refreence to the history
14:26:25  <Ammler> you just force people to clone rubish
14:30:23  <Ammler> I do not see any advantage since it is that easy to create a new repo/project
14:43:06  <Yexo> Ammler: but the nfo version was a previous version, it's valid history
14:43:12  <Yexo> even if it's not referenced that often
14:43:38  <Yexo> I almost never reference openttd history besides the last few thousands revisions
14:43:47  <Yexo> that is no reason to throw away r1 to r15000 or so
14:43:52  <Ammler> you do for sure
14:44:29  <Ammler> you almost never make a commit without
14:45:14  <Ammler> I did not say, you should remove the "old" repo, I just said, it is useless to build the new one based on the old
14:45:59  <Yexo> perhaps in this case because the old repo was rubbish, but for example with FIRS I'd disagree
14:48:06  <planetmaker> I think it's mostly moot. It's not a big repo so far. It's a valid previous version. And as such it's a part of history
14:48:48  <planetmaker> and in case of doubt the correct way IMHO is: keep history
14:58:45  <Ammler> well, it isn't history of dutch set either
14:59:08  <Ammler> the released dutch set isn't based on that repo
15:00:17  <Brot6> Dutch Train Set - Revision 38:64ee5a178a76: Feature: basecosts and train width settings, disable ... (foobar) @
15:01:38  <Ammler> it was just a experimental fork
15:13:38  <Rubidium> well, OpenTTD started with a clean repository when the older one was "crap" ;)
15:15:40  <FooBar> crap? Didn't that get "missing"? :P
15:16:06  <FooBar> anyways, let me know when you guys figured out what is best :P
15:16:30  <Yexo> continue as you do now
15:17:54  <FooBar> ok, that's the easiest anyways :P
15:18:33  <FooBar> Yexo: while I have you here... In your decode, does the naming of the spritesets (e.g. spriteset_1986) refer to the sprite number in the png file?
15:18:51  <Yexo> yes
15:19:10  <FooBar> Brilliant, that's gonna save me a lot of trouble :)
15:19:46  <Yexo> actually they refer to the sprite numbers, but the png is from decoding a grf and grfcodec also writes the sprite number in the png files
15:19:52  <Yexo> so they correspondent "by accident"
15:20:13  <FooBar> accident or not, it's quite a useful "feature"
15:40:18  <Ammler> FooBar: there is no real "wrong" or "right", I was just trying to explain why it is ugly from my view and failed, but that does not really matter :-)
15:41:14  <FooBar> I agree with you that it's ugly, but it's also easier to use while I'm still unsure whether I need DJN's work or not
15:41:15  <Ammler> and yes, it was menat generally, not just for this set
15:41:42  <Ammler> and how does that differ to have 2 repos?
15:42:03  <Ammler> 2 clean ones, instead one ugly one :-P
15:43:10  <Ammler> as soon as people contribute, you can hardly change it anymore
15:50:36  <FooBar> it wouldn't change much for my purpose I guess
15:51:55  <FooBar> If you like you can set one up and strip the last commits from the old repo
15:52:06  <FooBar> Then I'll commit everything to the new repo
15:52:29  <Ammler> lol
15:52:34  <FooBar> minus the old stuff ofcourse
15:53:10  <FooBar> whatever makes you happy :P
15:53:33  <Ammler> It's your repo, I just told you it is ugly and why :-P
15:54:10  <FooBar> actually, it's DJN's repo :P
15:54:14  <Ammler> nono
15:54:18  <Ammler> djn's was nice
15:54:23  <FooBar> heh :)
15:54:27  <Ammler> :-D
15:54:29  <FooBar> yeah, I messed it up
15:54:56  <FooBar> well, let's do this then, and start from scratch
15:58:15  <Ammler> just do not blame me, if you later miss the djn changes :-P
16:00:43  <FooBar> I won't
16:02:36  <Brot6> Central European Train Set - Feature #3199 (New): Narrow gauge (oberhuemer) @
16:04:14  <FooBar> alright, I have a new repo setup locally; how do we go about this?
16:04:49  <FooBar> I guess you first have to hg strip 34 the old one
16:05:26  <FooBar> Then make a new remote repo called say "dutchtrains" (that's what I called it here)
16:06:13  <FooBar> Then edit the devzone to point to the new repo and then I can push
16:06:24  <FooBar> Or whatever other method you prefer :P
16:10:02  <Ammler> why?
16:10:11  <Ammler> you created a new repo, so no need to strip something
16:10:37  <Ammler> well, maybe to cleanup the old repo, but well
16:11:02  <FooBar> yes, to clean up the old one indeed
16:11:49  <Ammler> well, if you want, do it
16:12:05  <Ammler> should not really matter...
16:12:32  <FooBar> I think you should after all this :)
16:12:37  <Ammler> also remember that in that case, you should also clenaup redmine repo
16:13:13  <Ammler> hehe
16:13:19  <Ammler> I might do it sometime
16:13:23  <FooBar> don't know if I can, I'm just a developer there, not manager ;)
16:13:52  <Ammler> imo, you should make a new project as you should make a new repo
16:14:02  <Ammler> as those are completely unrelated, that wasthe whole point
16:14:02  <FooBar> yeah, that may be best
16:14:12  <FooBar> I'll get on that right now
16:21:03  <Brot6> repository /home/hg/dutchtrains registered in Redmine with url /home/hg/dutchtrains
16:21:03  <Brot6> repository /home/hg/dutchtrains created
16:23:31  <Brot6> Dutch Trains 2.0 - Revision 0:da71b8510d4d: Set up repo (foobar) @
16:23:31  <Brot6> Dutch Trains 2.0 - Revision 1:9c02415f69c0: Add: docs (foobar) @
16:23:31  <Brot6> Dutch Trains 2.0 - Revision 2:38589966d6f5: Add: NMLconverted version 1.1 (by Yexo) (foobar) @
16:23:31  <Brot6> Dutch Trains 2.0 - Revision 3:696c158b3ed9: Feature: basic NML code setup (foobar) @
16:23:34  <Brot6> Dutch Trains 2.0 - Revision 4:fc4e2a2e0621: Add: new graphics by Snail and Purno (foobar) @
16:23:43  <FooBar> ok, I cleaned the old project as far as I could; moved issues to the new one etc.
16:24:09  <FooBar> Maybe the old project can be locked or something?
16:25:23  <Yexo> don't think so
16:25:53  <Yexo> I've added a link to the new project on the overview page
16:26:41  <FooBar> ok
16:27:23  <Brot6> Dutch Trains 2.0 - Bug #3201 (New): DDM consists (foobar) @
16:28:38  <Ammler> Yexo: there is "archive"
16:28:45  <Ammler> (for admins)
16:31:21  <FooBar> dinner :)
16:59:27  <Yexo> Ammler: and were could I find that?
17:03:23  <FooBar> I'm off, bye! Thanks for your help today, all!
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17:08:12  <Ammler> Yexo: on the admin projects page
17:09:49  <Yexo> but when you archive it it's no longer visible
17:09:55  <Yexo> which is not really the intention in this case
17:19:25  <Brot6> heqs: update from r669 to r673 done -
17:22:30  <Brot6> vactrainset: compile of r1 still failed (#3044) -
17:23:44  <planetmaker> ^ Ammler, is there a way to not display things which don't change, like this always-fail-compile of the vactrainset?
17:39:52  <Brot6> DACH Trains - Bug #3197 (Closed): DevZone compile failed (officercrockey) @
17:43:37  <Brot6> DACH Trains - Revision 16:461dc020c45d: fixed purchase graphic for BLS TRAXX (officercrockey) @
17:43:37  <Brot6> DACH Trains - Bug #3195 (Closed): flashing pixels in buy-menu (officercrockey) @
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19:02:22  <Brot6> clientpatches: compile of r23069 still failed (#2964) -
19:04:13  <Brot6> serverpatches: compile of r23069 still failed (#2966) -
19:06:11  <Brot6> 32bpp-ez-patches: compile of r23069 still failed (#2446) -
20:45:33  <Ammler> planetmaker: by fixing :-P
20:46:00  <Ammler> as you see there is more such "unneeded" announcements
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21:37:42  <Brot6> Japanese Trains - Revision 19:aec3a745bf04: Adapt colour maps for bulk cargos to map 2nd CC to 1s... (dandan) @
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22:59:48  <Brot6> NewGRF Meta Language - Revision 1707:3b2ef9fdd01f: Change: use var 4B for 'date_of_last_service' ... (yexo) @
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