Log for #openttdcoop.devzone on 31st December 2011:
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09:35:05  * andythenorth thinks #3035 should be rejected...
09:35:11  <Brot6> andythenorth: #3035 is "FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Feature Request #3035: Increase weight for supplies - #openttdcoop Development Zone"
09:36:15  <Brot6> FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Feature Request #3035: Increase weight for supplies (andythenorth) @
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10:51:06  <Brot6> Dutch Road Furniture - Revision 82:5de5ab5a48d6: Feature: guardrails for median inside corners (i... (foobar) @
10:56:55  <Brot6> Dutch Road Furniture - Feature #3433 (New): left hand drive support (foobar) @
11:03:46  <andythenorth> planetmaker: FIRS release? :D
11:09:56  <planetmaker> yes. Shall we go through the single cargos to consider adding / removing a class?
11:10:10  <andythenorth> yes
11:10:14  <planetmaker> if we do it (and we do already as with scrp), we can do it throughly
11:10:27  <andythenorth> #3235
11:10:27  <Brot6> andythenorth: #3235 is "FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Feature #3235: Thoughts on classes - #openttdcoop Development Zone"
11:10:45  <andythenorth> planetmaker: it would be helpful if we could see what current classes actually are set to
11:10:48  <andythenorth> per cargo
11:11:02  <andythenorth> but maybe we just read the code for that :P
11:15:00  <planetmaker> probably
11:15:49  <planetmaker> passenger: leave
11:16:00  <planetmaker> coal: also as-is
11:16:06  <planetmaker> mail: as-is
11:16:14  <planetmaker> oil: as-is
11:17:21  <planetmaker> livestock: as-is
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11:18:48  <planetmaker> goods: as-is. But only on grounds that it uses a default label
11:19:02  <andythenorth> we could change that
11:19:05  <planetmaker> alternative: new label PIEC with piece goods class
11:19:16  <planetmaker> maybe 'express', too
11:19:19  <andythenorth> I'd be prepared to adjust 'Goods' to something else
11:20:11  <andythenorth> Consumer Goods?
11:20:12  <andythenorth> meh
11:20:24  <planetmaker> good
11:20:26  <planetmaker> CGOD
11:20:36  <planetmaker> that gives it a good name
11:20:48  <planetmaker> consumables
11:20:58  <planetmaker> CONG
11:21:12  <planetmaker> let's skip that for now and go on. Details later
11:21:28  <planetmaker> I made a note here on that :-)
11:22:05  <planetmaker> grain: as-is. or add 'covered'?
11:22:23  <andythenorth> it uses a default label?
11:22:27  <planetmaker> yes
11:22:29  <Terkhen> what are you planning?
11:22:30  <andythenorth> leave
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11:23:37  <planetmaker> Terkhen: re-visit cargos. Checking for class sanity. And making new labels, when needed
11:23:44  <planetmaker> good. we leave GRAI
11:24:02  <planetmaker> please join in, Terkhen. Open FIRS sprites/nml/cargo_props.pnml :-)
11:24:38  <planetmaker> we want to release 0.7.0 and... as there's anyway SCMT as new label we thought to look through the rest, too
11:24:47  <planetmaker> to avoid the new-cargo-for-every-release stuff
11:25:09  <andythenorth> Terkhen:
11:25:15  <planetmaker> anyway: WOOD: leave as piece?
11:25:29  <andythenorth> yes
11:25:33  <andythenorth> countable
11:25:41  <planetmaker> IORE: as-is bulk
11:25:44  <andythenorth> also - default cargo
11:25:54  <andythenorth> if I don't reply, I agree :)
11:26:25  <planetmaker> STEL: as-is piece
11:28:15  <Terkhen> hmm... so you are going to change most cargos again?
11:28:26  <Terkhen> I still don't understand why you need to do that
11:28:40  <planetmaker> FOOD: default, but bad. I'd suggest to use FOO2 and add piece. But later
11:28:56  <Terkhen> I know that the default scheme is faulty, but IMO it is not worth making everyone change their vehicle sets
11:29:05  <planetmaker> Terkhen: no. But going through to see where quirks are
11:29:39  <planetmaker> and when we know the quirks with the existing FIRS cargos. then we can think whether this is worth to change
11:29:52  <planetmaker> so far GOOD and FOOD. But it's default...
11:30:19  <planetmaker> mostly it's considering the FIRS-specific cargos
11:30:30  <planetmaker> to ensure that vehicle sets can really refit them in a sane way
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11:30:39  <andythenorth> mostly it proposes to remove classes
11:30:51  <andythenorth> or change classes
11:30:54  <Terkhen> what I mean is; we managed to get every cargo in ogfx+ in ways that make sense, why change it?
11:31:03  <planetmaker> alcohol BEER: exists. leave as-is: express, piece, liquid
11:31:17  <andythenorth> I want to remove liquid
11:31:27  <andythenorth> eddi made a good case that it's piece
11:31:36  <planetmaker> it's an existing cargo
11:31:36  <andythenorth> and it's a proven source of conflicts
11:31:50  <andythenorth> label change?  WINE
11:31:52  <planetmaker> and used by vehicles in a sane way it doesn't conflict
11:32:01  <planetmaker> i.e. no exclude base class
11:32:51  <planetmaker> base classes piece + liquid must never be used as "AND NOT". Thus no conflict
11:32:57  <andythenorth> does it gain from liquid though?
11:33:08  <planetmaker> it looses by a label change
11:33:14  <planetmaker> it's an established one
11:33:15  <andythenorth> true
11:33:47  <planetmaker> milk: MILK: as-is. express, liquid, refrigerated
11:33:56  <planetmaker> could add 'piece', but not worth it
11:34:12  <planetmaker> milk goes to dairy anyway and that's bulk liquid, not tetrapak
11:34:12  <andythenorth> fewer = better
11:34:29  <andythenorth> can we leave a note on BEER?
11:34:46  <andythenorth> it's the same case as MILK, inverted
11:34:46  <planetmaker> I don't think it's worth any further thought.
11:35:08  <andythenorth> hmm
11:35:30  <planetmaker> unless you insist on giving it a new label
11:36:29  <andythenorth> you're convinced it's fine as is?  If so...leave it
11:36:42  <planetmaker> I'm fine with it. liquid class doesn't hurt there
11:36:51  <andythenorth> it hurts eGRVTS :D
11:36:55  <andythenorth> but that's not the point
11:37:54  <planetmaker> fruits (FRVG): piece, express, refrigerated: leave as-is
11:38:22  <planetmaker> fish (FISH): express, refrigerated: it's missing either bulk or piece
11:38:37  <planetmaker> or both
11:39:47  <planetmaker> wool: piece + covered. It's ok, I guess.
11:39:58  <andythenorth> I don't think it justifies covered
11:40:03  <andythenorth> covered irritates me
11:40:55  <planetmaker> it fits somewhat. And it's not our own cargo
11:41:00  <andythenorth> it was
11:41:06  <andythenorth> covered is fine
11:41:12  <andythenorth> I just don't want to encourage it :P
11:41:43  <planetmaker> I can agree to that
11:42:12  <planetmaker> recycables: RCYC: piece + covered?. Wth why covered?
11:42:17  <andythenorth> no idea
11:42:29  <planetmaker> I suggest a change
11:42:48  <planetmaker> to bulk actually
11:43:05  <andythenorth> uncountable?
11:43:24  <andythenorth> what about bales :D
11:43:25  <Webster> Title: Bales of Recyclables | Flickr - Photo Sharing! (at
11:43:57  <planetmaker> depends, I guess.
11:44:13  <andythenorth> bulk + piece is acceptable, but is it needed?
11:44:52  <planetmaker> 'needed' is strong. I never thought of recycling crap as piece goods
11:45:15  <andythenorth> can you count it :D
11:46:03  <planetmaker> <-- bulk or piece?
11:46:04  <Webster> Title: Abfall-Entsorgung: Die Finanzierung für den Gelben Sack und die Gelbe Tonne ist vorerst gesichert - Wirtschaft - Aktuelles - merkur-online (at
11:46:08  <planetmaker> yes, you can count it... somewhat
11:46:40  <Brot6> Dutch Trains 2.0 - Feature #3434 (New): NS100 (Voyager1) @
11:46:41  <andythenorth> what gets it the widest appropriate cargo support?
11:46:54  <planetmaker>
11:46:54  <planetmaker> C8TMswbxovToBQ&zoom=1&iact=rc&dur=374&sig=112808907404654908903&page=8&tbnh=87&tbnw=155&start=156&ndsp=21&ved=1t:429,r:3,s:156&tx=68&ty=26 <-- piece? ;-)
11:46:55  <Webster> Title: Redirect Notice (at
11:46:58  <planetmaker> ups
11:46:59  <andythenorth> bulk + non-pourable; + piece?
11:47:21  <planetmaker> widest? just bulk + piece
11:47:47  <planetmaker> our trash vans just pour it on the junkyard or into the sorting plants
11:48:26  <andythenorth> so it can travel by dump truck (pourable)
11:48:35  <andythenorth> but can it travel by hopper car (pourable)?
11:48:45  <planetmaker> dunno
11:49:01  <andythenorth> hmm
11:49:03  <andythenorth> :)
11:49:16  <andythenorth> some of the 'extended' classes don't entirely help imho
11:49:45  <andythenorth> we're agreed to remove covered from that one?
11:49:59  <planetmaker> I'd say 'yes'
11:50:09  <andythenorth> k
11:50:15  <andythenorth> are you keeping notes? :)
11:50:30  <planetmaker> yes
11:50:42  <planetmaker> so we only remove 'covered' and not add 'bulk'?
11:50:57  <andythenorth> I'm happy with that
11:51:01  <planetmaker> ok
11:51:06  <andythenorth> or (slightly) happy with adding bulk
11:51:17  <andythenorth> or also happy with adding bulk + not pourable :P
11:51:32  <andythenorth> classes :P
11:51:42  <andythenorth> did you discuss MNSP?
11:51:54  <planetmaker> plant fibres FICR: bulk, piece. Add not-pourable?
11:52:00  <planetmaker> but we can't, I fear
11:52:13  <andythenorth> see #1963
11:52:13  <Brot6> andythenorth: #1963 is "FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Feature #1963: Consider Fibre Crops cargo classes - #openttdcoop Development Zone"
11:52:17  <andythenorth> FICR is all wrong imho
11:53:55  <planetmaker> bulk + piece is somewhat ok
11:54:12  <planetmaker> I can live with it, though I'm not too happy with bulk
11:54:19  <andythenorth> I'm not happy with bulk
11:54:51  <andythenorth> it's annoying to vehicle set authors if we provide cargos which (most) sets have to provide special excludes for
11:55:02  <andythenorth> wrong classes imposes work on authors :(
11:55:14  <andythenorth> bulk especially
11:55:57  <andythenorth> cotton doesn't travel by coal hopper, nor flax, nor hemp
11:56:20  <andythenorth> it's definitely countable irl + gains nothing from bulk
11:59:29  <planetmaker> well. ok
11:59:44  <planetmaker> gravel GRVL: bulk. as-is
12:00:05  <planetmaker> building material BDMT: piece, covered. why covered?
12:00:13  <planetmaker> bricks do not care for water
12:00:45  <andythenorth> cement I guess
12:00:52  <andythenorth> an attempt to get it into covered hoppers?
12:00:54  <planetmaker> yes, but then it must not be there
12:01:05  <planetmaker> bdmt is not (only) cement.
12:01:08  <andythenorth> no
12:01:12  <planetmaker> thus it must be generic
12:01:12  <andythenorth> it's much other stuff
12:01:25  <andythenorth> do you want to reject the request for 'powdered' also?
12:01:44  <planetmaker> yes
12:01:51  <andythenorth> my case is that they shouldn't be relying on classes for that
12:01:51  <planetmaker> it's not cement
12:02:02  <andythenorth> relying on classes for known cargos is *doing it wrong*
12:02:19  <andythenorth> they should set exclude / includes explicitly
12:02:26  <andythenorth> MB made the case for TTDP support
12:02:33  <planetmaker> I don't care
12:02:37  <andythenorth> but that might be a white elephant
12:02:37  <planetmaker> FIRS is not for TTDP
12:02:41  <andythenorth> exactly
12:02:57  <andythenorth> although these classes may be reused by other industry sets which do support TTDP
12:03:09  <andythenorth> I am sure there exist many
12:03:17  <planetmaker> hardly. There's no (new) such industry set. Not even ECS
12:03:54  <planetmaker> George dropped support. And I already found reports that it stopped working with ttdp
12:04:10  <planetmaker> gender support killed it ;-)
12:04:32  <planetmaker> sand SAND: bulk. keep as-is
12:04:41  <planetmaker> clay CLAY: bulk. keep as-is
12:05:01  <planetmaker> lumber WDPR: bulk, piece. keep as-is
12:05:10  <andythenorth> does clay have covered set?
12:05:11  <planetmaker> bauxite AORE: bulk. as-is
12:05:14  <planetmaker> no
12:05:21  <andythenorth> good
12:05:25  <andythenorth> my spec thought it did :P
12:05:40  <planetmaker> scrap metal SCMT: bulk, neo-bulk. as-is
12:05:46  <andythenorth> planetmaker: grr
12:05:51  <andythenorth> wiki is out of spec (again)
12:05:55  <planetmaker> sugar cane SGCN: piece goods, bulk
12:06:01  <andythenorth> I hate the classes being in the wiki
12:06:04  <planetmaker> as-is
12:06:22  <planetmaker> I'd not add neo-bulk
12:06:44  <planetmaker> sugar beet SGBT: bulk. as-is
12:06:50  <andythenorth> I'd remove piece from SGCN
12:06:54  <andythenorth> and set neo-bulk
12:07:12  <andythenorth> again - the problem of bulk = coal hopper in train sets applies :(
12:07:22  <planetmaker> noted.
12:07:32  <andythenorth> I'm also convinced by your case that sgcn is not countable
12:07:34  <planetmaker> fuel oil: PETR. liquid. as-is
12:07:55  <planetmaker> chemicals RFPR: liquid. as-is
12:08:10  <andythenorth> back to WDPR for 1 min...
12:08:12  <planetmaker> MNSP: express, piece. as-is
12:08:25  <planetmaker> yes?
12:08:28  <andythenorth> what's the case for bulk?
12:08:33  <planetmaker> wood chips
12:08:34  <andythenorth> other than we tried to reuse an ECS label
12:08:51  <planetmaker> wood pellets
12:08:59  <planetmaker> etc
12:09:11  <andythenorth> we should change the name string of the cargo :|
12:09:17  <planetmaker> to?
12:09:22  <andythenorth> dunno
12:09:34  <andythenorth> the meanings of 'lumber', 'wood' etc vary by continent anyway
12:09:49  <andythenorth> I see nothing in FIRS that supports Lumber being wood pellets
12:09:50  <planetmaker> doesn't matter. Gives room for interpretation :-)
12:10:24  <andythenorth> hmm
12:10:26  <andythenorth> leave it?
12:10:29  <planetmaker> yes
12:10:37  <andythenorth> I've been wanting to change it since starting FIRS :P
12:10:44  <planetmaker> it's a good label
12:10:53  <planetmaker> and classes are fine imho, too
12:10:54  <andythenorth> coal hopper argument applies here too
12:11:00  <planetmaker> not to wood pellets
12:11:07  <planetmaker> or wood chips. --> Argument gone wrong
12:11:14  <planetmaker> still you always bring it up ;-)
12:11:25  <planetmaker> still I always tell it's wrong :-P
12:11:35  <andythenorth> k
12:11:37  <andythenorth> leave it
12:11:50  <andythenorth> MNSP doesn't justify express
12:11:57  <andythenorth> it could stay, but there's no reason for it
12:12:24  <planetmaker> agreed on both accounts. Thus leave it ;-)
12:12:29  <planetmaker> ENSP: express, piece. leave as. For same reasons
12:12:42  <andythenorth> means it can travel by air :)
12:12:44  <planetmaker> FMSP: express, piece. leave as-is for same reasons
12:12:56  <planetmaker> we could add 'bulk' though
12:13:16  <andythenorth> I'd leave
12:13:34  <planetmaker> we're done
12:13:45  <andythenorth> hmm
12:13:53  <andythenorth> good
12:14:06  <andythenorth> so how do your notes compare to my last note in #3235?
12:14:06  <Brot6> andythenorth: #3235 is "FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Feature #3235: Thoughts on classes - #openttdcoop Development Zone"
12:14:07  <andythenorth> :)
12:14:19  <planetmaker>
12:15:17  <andythenorth> introducing a new goods cargo - controversial :D
12:15:23  <andythenorth> makes me very tempted to do it....
12:17:03  <andythenorth> food should really gain piece goods
12:17:16  <andythenorth> but is it worth it?
12:20:30  <planetmaker> I don't think it's worth it.
12:20:34  <andythenorth> me neither
12:20:44  <planetmaker> concerning food and goods: that would require some more general debate
12:21:16  <planetmaker> so. beer: I argued also to keep it. Less changes needed anywhere
12:21:25  <planetmaker> and specific cargo support is already there in that case
12:21:45  <planetmaker> fish would be the same argument. as fibre crops
12:21:57  <andythenorth> beer - it means vehicle set authors have to set a specific exclude
12:22:05  <planetmaker> unspecific cargo support in both cases may be a bit weired. But alas
12:22:18  <planetmaker> why do they have to set an exclude?
12:22:26  <andythenorth> to exclude alcohol from tankers?
12:22:29  <planetmaker> I don't mind to ship beer in supertankers
12:22:32  <andythenorth> ok
12:22:34  <andythenorth> leave it
12:22:38  <planetmaker> it's a base food ;-)
12:23:01  <andythenorth> I am just working down your shortlist
12:23:10  <andythenorth> fish - why add piece or bulk?
12:23:19  <planetmaker> to add a base class
12:23:27  <planetmaker> it has none so far
12:23:30  <andythenorth> piece
12:23:37  <planetmaker> probably
12:23:43  <planetmaker> but again, it's not our label
12:23:44  <andythenorth> fish are uncountable when caught, but countable when transported
12:23:49  <planetmaker> thus: new label or 'leave it'
12:24:10  <andythenorth> Seafood in 4 letters?
12:24:20  <planetmaker> SFOD
12:24:25  <Brot6> Dutch Trains 2.0 - Feature #3435 (New): Superheavy Flatcar (futuristic) (Voyager1) @
12:24:27  <planetmaker> or SEAF
12:24:52  <planetmaker> I could go with that.
12:25:11  <andythenorth> we should do a new label
12:25:17  <andythenorth> FISH is not compliant with 'YACS'
12:25:36  <andythenorth> piece goods should be set when refrigerated is used
12:25:41  <planetmaker> SEAF with piece, refrigerated and express
12:25:48  <andythenorth> +1
12:25:52  <planetmaker> k
12:25:57  <Rubidium> but...
12:26:01  <planetmaker> but?
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12:26:18  <andythenorth> sorry
12:26:21  <andythenorth> disconnectified :P
12:26:22  <Rubidium> sardines are pretty bulky unrefridgerated and not-expressy
12:26:37  <planetmaker> it's boxed in cans, Rubidium ;-)
12:27:05  <andythenorth> bulk and bulk :P
12:27:13  * andythenorth can count sardines
12:27:15  <andythenorth> for values <n
12:27:21  <planetmaker> n=2
12:27:37  <Rubidium> but you can count grains of rice as well
12:27:37  <andythenorth> are there other cargos that are not YACS compliant?
12:27:42  <planetmaker> :-)
12:27:54  <andythenorth> is 'some' a valid number?
12:27:55  <Rubidium> hell... they even count fish eggs
12:27:56  <planetmaker> YACS? yet another cargo ...?
12:27:59  <andythenorth> schema
12:28:04  <Ammler> oh wow, now I got the server issue with paste service
12:28:08  <andythenorth> it was a joke originally, but I think YACS is valid
12:28:19  <andythenorth> ECS is confusing as it also refers to the set
12:28:31  <Ammler> cleanup the domain cookies and it works again, that should be fixeable
12:28:36  <andythenorth> and ECS cargos aren't compliant with YACS principles
12:28:40  <planetmaker> ok. But honest question, Rubidium: do you think such cargo would benefit from 'bulk'?
12:29:22  <andythenorth>
12:29:26  <Rubidium> I have no clue ;)
12:29:45  <Rubidium> it's just that every few weeks someone "designs" a new almost equal cargo with slightly different flags
12:29:54  <Rubidium> which would almost make the flags pointless
12:30:40  <andythenorth> and ever more detailed classes are added :(
12:30:46  <andythenorth> but we had that debate already :)
12:31:07  <planetmaker> yes, the cargo inflation is the ... bad thing
12:31:38  <Rubidium> yeah, and nobody seems to like my proposed cargo ;)
12:31:47  <planetmaker> what was it?
12:31:53  <planetmaker> 'stuff'? ;-)
12:31:54  <Rubidium> "STUF"
12:31:58  <planetmaker> :-)
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12:32:00  <Rubidium> or "STFF"
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12:32:17  <Rubidium> or... typoed: "STFU" ;)
12:32:27  <planetmaker> hehe
12:32:58  <andythenorth> I would use it - if I was allowed :P
12:33:08  <andythenorth> it would encourage vehicle authors to maintain their sets
12:33:12  <planetmaker> andythenorth: recyclables. thinking of it, 'covered' might not be as completely off as one thinks. Thus for the sake of simplicity: keep
12:33:25  <planetmaker> and don't change that cargo
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12:33:41  <andythenorth> FFS
12:33:46  <andythenorth> this wifi is ridiculously bad
12:33:50  <planetmaker> 13:33 planetmaker: andythenorth: recyclables. thinking of it, 'covered' might not be as completely off as one thinks. Thus for the sake of simplicity: keep
12:33:50  <planetmaker> 13:33 planetmaker: and don't change that cargo
12:33:57  <andythenorth> I am sat 10 feet from the route :/
12:34:05  <andythenorth> +r
12:34:23  <planetmaker> FICR: also just keep. It's not our. And not sure a new is worth it. FICR has specific support
12:34:40  <andythenorth> what specific support though?  Is it useful? :)
12:34:44  <planetmaker> yes
12:34:49  <planetmaker> cargo graphics in vehicle sets
12:34:56  <planetmaker> it looks just much nicer then
12:34:58  <andythenorth> do we know what they are?
12:35:09  <planetmaker> how do you mean?
12:35:18  <planetmaker> I know what support I added ;-)
12:35:30  <planetmaker> But other train and vehicle sets support it, too
12:35:37  <planetmaker> thus: keep
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12:35:43  <andythenorth> I give up :(
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12:36:03  <planetmaker> building materials: remove covered and we're fine imho
12:36:17  <planetmaker> though if we change it, we can add cement, too
12:36:20  <planetmaker> err... bulk
12:36:27  * andythenorth gives up wifi, not cargos :P
12:36:30  * andythenorth makes some tea
12:37:02  <andythenorth> planetmaker: wrt recyclables - should they be able to travel by open / flat vehicle?
12:37:15  <planetmaker> open: not wrong. Flat: not sure
12:37:25  <andythenorth> that's the problem with covered
12:37:28  <planetmaker> but maybe I'm wrong
12:37:32  <andythenorth> it only works as an exclude class
12:37:39  <planetmaker> yes. I hate that
12:37:39  <andythenorth> authors have to exclude it on all non-vans
12:37:45  <andythenorth> it's pointless
12:37:55  <andythenorth> also we proved that any vehicle can be covered with a tarpaulin
12:38:04  <andythenorth> so generally I want to not use that class, it's 100% dumb
12:38:24  <andythenorth> I don't want to support stupidity just to avoid annoying a few people
12:38:46  <planetmaker> but it's there
12:39:00  <andythenorth> we can change it :)  That's what classes are for....
12:39:05  <planetmaker> still. We can remove that without much pain, I guess
12:39:20  <andythenorth> anyone relying on classes for specific refits is...doing it wrong
12:39:30  <andythenorth> classes come with 0% warranty
12:40:09  <planetmaker> ok
12:40:20  <planetmaker> wood products. we covered that and decided to 'keep', right?
12:40:30  <andythenorth> yup
12:40:34  <andythenorth> I'm sold on wood chips :P
12:40:49  <planetmaker> :-P
12:40:50  <Rubidium> oh, that's the solution for the invisible leading engine: put tarpaulin over it ;)
12:40:54  <andythenorth> maybe we add biomass power plant?
12:41:07  <andythenorth> :P
12:41:16  <planetmaker> not bad. Anyway. sugar cane. change to bulk + neo-bulk?
12:41:41  <Rubidium> but the existing one is a biomass power plant
12:41:51  <planetmaker> neo-bulk = not pourable
12:42:07  <andythenorth> yup change sgcn that way
12:42:12  <planetmaker> ok
12:42:31  <andythenorth> FICR is a big 'meh' for me
12:42:42  <andythenorth> but if you want to leave it I won't mind
12:42:49  <planetmaker> don't worry, I think. It's ok. It's established
12:43:05  <planetmaker> It's only for sets which don't specifically support it. And they'll still transport it
12:43:05  <andythenorth> PLFB was nicer
12:43:25  <planetmaker>
12:43:31  <andythenorth> what happened to frosch's label-translation idea?
12:43:37  <planetmaker> nothing
12:44:15  <andythenorth> heh
12:45:08  <andythenorth> planetmaker: recyclables - remove covered
12:45:24  <planetmaker> oh, did we? :-P Well, ok
12:45:24  <andythenorth> and goods is worth discussion
12:45:37  <andythenorth> the current situation of "goods is not goods" is dumb
12:45:44  <andythenorth> and surely confusing to newgrf authors?
12:46:25  <planetmaker> cargos mostly have been confusing with the xor
12:46:30  <planetmaker> xor is a non-intuitive concept
12:46:40  <planetmaker> otherwise it's... easy
12:46:54  <andythenorth> ok
12:47:05  <andythenorth> shrug :P
12:47:16  <andythenorth> might lose wifi again in a minute, I have to move rooms :/
12:56:50  <planetmaker> so, you really think we should also change RCYC? Hm... I'm still a bit unsure ;-)
12:57:20  <andythenorth> I don't think the covered class is valid
12:57:53  <andythenorth> but spec says it is
12:57:54  <andythenorth> so meh
12:58:19  <andythenorth> the primary question should be "what gets the widest range of support"
12:58:43  * planetmaker updates firs repo
12:59:15  <planetmaker> doesn't matter, I think
12:59:44  <andythenorth> leave it if you want
13:06:16  <michi_cc> If you change GOODs, you loose all house acceptance.
13:07:32  <planetmaker> true :-(
13:07:39  <planetmaker> same with FOOD
13:08:54  <andythenorth> leave those too
13:09:00  <andythenorth> hysterical raisins :P
13:09:07  <andythenorth> it does no harm in gameplay
13:09:08  <planetmaker> bah. I'm having 2nd thoughts on FISH, too.
13:09:25  <planetmaker> there's also lots of support for that :S
13:09:40  <andythenorth> fails the spec
13:09:52  <andythenorth> either this YACS spec is a spec, or we should bin it as unworkable
13:10:01  <andythenorth> either is fine by me
13:10:12  <andythenorth> I would be as happy to have 4 or 5 base classes and no extended classes
13:10:46  <andythenorth> what we have right now are two people with lots of experience of newgrf *still* trying to figure out how to do the right thing :P
13:10:51  <andythenorth> seems broken to me :)
13:11:39  <andythenorth> as far as I am concerned, classes should exist only to provide support for legacy / unmaintained newgrfs
13:11:52  <andythenorth> which means *existing*, known newgrfs
13:12:08  <andythenorth> with all their quirks :P
13:12:31  <planetmaker> nah. classes are there to put a cargo approx in a fitting vehicle
13:12:43  <andythenorth> however we can also continue trying to do this forward looking thing, where instead we try to support unknown future vehicle sets :P
13:12:48  <planetmaker> what else is their value?
13:12:56  <andythenorth> legacy support
13:13:03  <planetmaker> what kind of legacy?
13:13:16  <andythenorth> "To make vehicle sets more compatible with future new cargo definitions, these two properties allow vehicles to define what type of cargo they should be refittable to"
13:13:37  <andythenorth> spec says nothing about allowing lazy authors a quick way to set refits
13:13:39  <planetmaker> well, yes. Additional to what classes allow
13:14:12  <andythenorth> planetmaker: I'm happy to not change FISH, but we should update the newgrf wiki
13:14:21  <andythenorth> which means the spec Eddi created fails
13:14:27  <planetmaker> it's refit: (classes and not classes xor labels) + (explicitly allowed) - (explicitly disallowed)
13:14:45  <andythenorth> I suggest that Eddi's spec fails also on Goods
13:15:14  <andythenorth> and Food
13:21:54  <michi_cc> Eddi's scheme had some additions to the existing cargo labels.
13:23:21  <andythenorth> are they viable?
13:23:35  <andythenorth> without a label->label mapping scheme?
13:26:55  <Brot6> FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Feature Request #3415 (Rejected): Consider 'powder' class for BDMT (andythenorth) @
13:27:55  <Ammler> planetmaker: it is very hard to find opengfx update if you do not announce them
13:28:12  <planetmaker> eh?
13:28:40  <Ammler> <-- last release is 0.3.7
13:28:42  <Rubidium> yeah, only 760 people found the update the last 24 hours ;)
13:29:04  <Ammler> Rubidium: I meant for pacakge maintainer
13:29:08  <Rubidium> Ammler: could you update it? (And grfcodec) ;)
13:29:11  <Ammler> which use the upstream url
13:29:23  <Rubidium> <- works quite well ;)
13:29:24  <Webster> Title: Debian Developer's Packages Overview -- Debian Quality Assurance (at
13:29:47  <Rubidium> just that the "watch" is updated once every few days
13:30:08  <Ammler> 0.4.0 there too
13:30:17  <Ammler> so also outdated
13:30:28  <Rubidium> Ammler: what did I say?
13:30:44  <Ammler> well, you said, it works,
13:31:23  <Rubidium> yes, ... and... that they update the state only once every few days
13:31:33  <Ammler> :-)
13:31:35  <Brot6> FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Feature #3235: Thoughts on classes (andythenorth) @
13:31:44  <Rubidium> given 0.4.1 wasn't released more than a week ago, I'd say the 'few days' haven't passed yet
13:31:51  <Ammler> anyway, better as suse, which has still 0.3.7
13:33:15  <Ammler> oh, needs nml update too
13:34:25  <Brot6> FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Feature #3235: Thoughts on classes (planetmaker) @
13:44:23  <Brot6> OpenGFX - Bug #3436 (New): new minor rpm lint issues (admin) @
13:44:57  <Ammler> oh
13:44:59  <Ammler> mäh
13:46:05  <Brot6> NewGRF Meta Language - Bug #3436 (New): new minor rpm lint issues (admin) @
13:46:16  <Brot6> OpenGFX - Feature #3407 (Closed): change palette to DOS (planetmaker) @
13:55:13  <andythenorth> planetmaker: BDMT - I see there could be a case for bulk...?
13:55:23  <andythenorth> do you want to add it?
13:56:48  <Ammler> planetmaker: 42 new packages needed for gimp :-)
13:57:29  <planetmaker> hehe, Ammler ;-)
13:57:34  <Ammler> previous we needed 140 pacakges to build opengfx, now 182
13:57:42  <planetmaker> andythenorth: well. cement would be bulk
13:57:50  <andythenorth> indeed
13:57:53  <andythenorth> uncountable :P
13:57:54  <planetmaker> but can be argued piece, too
13:57:59  <planetmaker> as in bags of cement
13:58:29  <Ammler> hmm, does not build
13:58:48  <planetmaker> our CF did build it
13:59:02  <planetmaker> you'll also need nml 0.2.1 or so
13:59:19  <planetmaker> 0.2.0 won't do, most probably
13:59:21  <Ammler> touch sprites/png/terrain/waterfeatures/riverbank_tropical_sw.gimp.png
13:59:36  * planetmaker touches it
13:59:39  <planetmaker> seems wet
13:59:56  <Ammler> why is that needed?
14:00:13  <andythenorth> planetmaker:
14:00:16  <andythenorth>
14:00:25  <andythenorth> although we don't set classes by google image search :)
14:00:27  <planetmaker> iirc it makes sure that the image is considered up2date
14:01:54  <Ammler> /bin/sh: line 1: 28339 Bus error               gimp -n -i -b - < sprites/png/terrain/waterfeatures/riverbank_tropical_se.gimp.scm > /dev/null
14:01:56  <Ammler> make[1]: *** [sprites/png/terrain/waterfeatures/riverbank_tropical_se.gimp.png] Error 135
14:02:10  <planetmaker> bus error is gimp error
14:02:15  <Ammler> strange, it worked for a lot
14:02:27  <planetmaker> don't use -j255 ;-)
14:02:35  <Ammler> ah
14:02:36  <planetmaker> gimp is bad in being executed too much in parallel
14:02:48  <planetmaker> but it's not really something I can change
14:03:09  <Ammler> the question is, can't you force makefile to use -j1?
14:03:15  <planetmaker> gimp has a fixed file which it uses in /tmp and gets confused when it's running too much in parallel
14:04:36  <Ammler> else you need to very verbose communicate that
14:05:22  <Rubidium> pff...
14:06:08  <Ammler> :-)
14:06:55  <Ammler> also it is not that obvious that you need to run make maintainer-clean first
14:07:42  <Rubidium> lets see whether make -j255 really fails ;)
14:09:06  <Brot6> FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Feature #1963 (Closed): Consider Fibre Crops cargo classes (andythenorth) @
14:11:10  <Brot6> OpenGFX - OpenGFX 0.4.1 released (planetmaker) @
14:11:12  <Rubidium> <- seems to help with -j255
14:11:18  <planetmaker> Ammler: you don't need to run make maintainer-clean first
14:11:43  <planetmaker> it's - after all  - a clean level intended to be used by, yes, the maintainers
14:11:56  <planetmaker> If you want to re-exercise that as distro-maintainer, too: your issue
14:12:03  <Ammler> well, all I comment now is from that view
14:12:24  <planetmaker> maintainer-clean is there for a reason and it's not the default for a reason
14:12:37  <Ammler> Required file 'opengfx-0.4.1.check.md5' which to test against not found!
14:12:51  <Ammler> seems like that file got deleted by that target too
14:13:08  <andythenorth> ha ha
14:13:16  <andythenorth> -j255 DoSed my mac :D
14:13:38  <planetmaker> "The ‘maintainer-clean’ target is intended to be used by a maintainer of the package, not by ordinary users. You may need special tools to reconstruct some of the files that ‘make maintainer-clean’ deletes. Since these files are normally included in the distribution, we don't take care to make them easy to reconstruct. If you find you need to unpack the full distribution again, don't blame us. "
14:14:07  <Ammler> planetmaker: you do not want me to test the package maintainer procedure?
14:14:18  <planetmaker> sure I do :-)
14:15:24  <Brot6> NewGRF Meta Language - Bug #3436: new minor rpm lint issues (yexo) @
14:15:24  <Ammler> Rubidium: that sounds more like a force to j1
14:15:49  <Rubidium> Ammler: planetmaker just told us that gimp can't run multiple instances
14:15:58  <Rubidium> so you shouldn't
14:16:00  <Ammler> yes
14:16:08  <planetmaker> that's an interesting define, Rubidium. I didn't yet see that anywhere. Thx for the hint
14:16:38  <Rubidium> sure... if goes right 99% of the times with -jN (where N is small), but... if it goes wrong you got another somewhat unreproducable 'bug'
14:16:38  <planetmaker> gimp *can* run multiple instances. But it *may* error out, if too many
14:16:41  <Ammler> that was why I wondered about your comment and then your soltuion :-P
14:16:52  <planetmaker> thus no threading at all is safer. But... meh... slow
14:17:20  <planetmaker> -j3 most often works. But it's indeed a known issue with gimp
14:17:24  <andythenorth> planetmaker: do you want to commit the FIRS diffs?  Or I can...
14:17:27  <Ammler> maybe it is possible to run 2 make, one for gimp with -j1 and then the rest?
14:17:43  <planetmaker> andythenorth: please go ahead. I will have to leave soonish
14:17:49  <planetmaker> for the rest of the year ;-)
14:17:50  <andythenorth> k
14:17:50  <Ammler> planetmaker: but is gimp really the only thing, which failed?
14:18:03  <planetmaker> I posted them there, andythenorth, as I'm not sure about the fish... as said
14:18:08  <planetmaker> the other two, I'm quite fine
14:18:08  <andythenorth> planetmaker: if we can resolve #3035, we're good to release
14:18:08  <Brot6> andythenorth: planetmaker: #3035 is "FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Feature Request #3035: Increase weight for supplies - #openttdcoop Development Zone"
14:18:13  <Ammler> I can remember to change -j1 before you used gimp
14:18:20  <andythenorth> fish will have to wait
14:18:34  <andythenorth> changing it later doesn't actually break anything
14:19:01  <Ammler> planetmaker: anyway, -j1 worked until the check
14:19:38  <planetmaker> changing the weight... hum.
14:19:54  <planetmaker> andythenorth: I still think we should defer that to after a new supply mechanism
14:19:57  <Rubidium> Ammler: the problem is that then you start building 6 GRFs, which are all spawning 1 make -j1 for their pngs
14:20:14  <Rubidium> so you end up with 6 GIMPs running
14:20:23  <Ammler> Rubidium: if the pngs already exists, gimp won't be used anymore
14:20:43  <Rubidium> true
14:20:53  <andythenorth> planetmaker: I think changing the weight is mostly invalid
14:20:58  <Rubidium> but... you won't know that when running the make
14:21:00  <andythenorth> or at least doesn't achieve stated goal
14:21:17  <Ammler> but I think, there are other jobs, wich also had issues on parallel running
14:21:48  <planetmaker> probably true, andythenorth
14:22:03  <Rubidium> what I can imagine adding some guards around the .NOTPARALLEL so you can 'remove' that target, and run at 'full' speed (at your own risk)
14:22:13  <andythenorth> planetmaker: I want to reject that ticket
14:22:20  <andythenorth> vehicles carry units, not t
14:22:37  <andythenorth> so a small 4unit truck would be carrying 40t
14:22:40  <andythenorth> slowly...
14:22:42  <Brot6> FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Feature #3437 (New): Consider new cargo label replacing FISH (andythenorth) @
14:22:56  <andythenorth> ok
14:23:03  <andythenorth> so I'll release tonight or tomorrow
14:23:07  <Ammler> planetmaker: you have a clue, what amount of jobs are too many for gimp?
14:23:39  <planetmaker> as said, Ammler: -j3 works usually for me
14:23:41  <Ammler> maybe beside .NOTPARALLEL, there is a max jobs
14:23:54  <planetmaker> but -j7 on our server fails often enough
14:24:20  <Ammler> usual build tools do not use -j at all, they calculate that from the cpu
14:24:37  <planetmaker> andythenorth: I'd first commit the two diffs then to firs default branch
14:24:40  <Ammler> on obs, they use simply the amount of cores
14:24:50  <andythenorth> oh we have to branch merge still :|
14:24:51  <andythenorth> forgot
14:24:53  <planetmaker> and then update to 0.7 branch and then merge the default branch into it
14:25:00  <Ammler> so 8 is it mostly
14:25:11  <Brot6> FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Feature #3437 (New): Consider new cargo label replacing FISH (andythenorth) @
14:25:11  <andythenorth> hmm
14:25:14  <planetmaker> it's not a big deal actually
14:25:16  <andythenorth> the merge scares me :)
14:25:22  <planetmaker> so... should I commit the two diffs and merge
14:25:23  <planetmaker> ?
14:25:27  <andythenorth> please
14:25:33  <andythenorth> so we leave out the fish diff?
14:25:41  <andythenorth> I think
14:25:42  <Rubidium> Ammler: given it uses a single file more than one is not safe/too much for gimp
14:26:50  <Brot6> FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Revision 2674:3f893c9f468d: Change: Remove the cargo class 'cover... (planetmaker) @
14:26:51  <Brot6> FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Revision 2675:77b1abd8e7fa: Change: Revise cargo classes for suga... (planetmaker) @
14:27:08  <planetmaker> drat. forgot issue reference
14:27:33  <andythenorth> I'll close them
14:27:36  <Ammler> anyway, more serious is the issue of the missing md5 check file
14:27:44  <Rubidium> it's like people running blindfolded to the other side of the room. With 1 there is no chance of a collision, with > 1 there is. The bigger the amount, the bigger the collision chance becomes
14:28:02  <Brot6> FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Feature Request #3035 (Rejected): Increase weight for supplies (andythenorth) @
14:29:00  <Brot6> FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Feature #3235 (Closed): Thoughts on classes (andythenorth) @
14:29:01  <Ammler> sorry, I didn't test 0.4.0 :-(
14:30:05  <Brot6> FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Code Review #3218 (Closed): sugar cane cargo classes (andythenorth) @
14:32:01  <Ammler> Rubidium: will you commit your fix or shall I add that to the bugreport I setup?
14:33:15  <Ammler> planetmaker: I post the bugs on opengfx, those should be ported to the framework too
14:34:06  <Rubidium> feel free to commit it
14:34:47  <Brot6> FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Support #3438 (New): Update newgrf wiki cargo labels wrt FIRS cargos (andythenorth) @
14:38:40  <Brot6> OpenGFX - Bug #3439 (New): build does not work with -j > 1 (Ammler) @
14:40:20  <andythenorth> ho
14:40:27  <andythenorth> there are a lot of credits for FIRS 0.7.0 :)
14:40:37  <andythenorth> hope I don't forget anyone
14:40:59  <Brot6> OpenGFX - Bug #3440 (New): probably maintainer-clean removes md5 check file (Ammler) @
14:42:25  <Ammler> andythenorth: that's the whole point about credits :-P
14:42:52  <planetmaker> Ammler: not sure #3440 is actually a bug
14:42:53  <Brot6> planetmaker: Ammler: #3440 is "OpenGFX - Bug #3440: probably maintainer-clean removes md5 check file - #openttdcoop Development Zone"
14:43:00  <planetmaker> it's supposed to remove everything
14:43:02  <Brot6> FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Revision 2676:a0e450fab7d9: Merge: Merge the current state of the... (planetmaker) @
14:43:08  <planetmaker> which can be re-generated
14:43:25  <Ammler> then it is useless
14:43:35  <Ammler> what other target could I use then?
14:44:02  <planetmaker> Do distros always use maintainer-clean?
14:44:14  <andythenorth> :{ORANGE}FIRS Industry Replacement Set{}{BLACK}By {SILVER}andythenorth{BLACK} and {SILVER}FooBar{BLACK}.{}{BLACK}'1,000 commits and counting...'{BLACK}{}{}Website: {SILVER}{BLACK}.License: {SILVER}GPL v2{BLACK}.Special thanks to {SILVER}Ammler{BLACK}, {SILVER}Core Xii{BLACK}, {SILVER}Irwe{BLACK}, {SILVER}planetmaker{BLACK} and {SILVER}Zephyris{BLACK}.Uses parts of {SILVER}eGRVTS{BL
14:44:15  <andythenorth> {SILVER}ISR{BLACK} and {SILVER}OpenGFX{BLACK}.
14:44:17  <Ammler> that's the idea behind, isn't?
14:44:21  <planetmaker> but agreed, it's useless then
14:44:23  <andythenorth> ^^^ this is probably outdated :)
14:44:32  <Rubidium> planetmaker: the ones that care do, the ones that don't care don't
14:44:51  <Ammler> andythenorth: you can remove me to get some space free :-)
14:44:54  <andythenorth> FIRS is at minimum 'andythenorth, foobar and planetmaker'
14:45:00  <andythenorth> (in alphabetical order)
14:45:09  <andythenorth> possibly also 'terkhen, yexo'
14:45:10  <planetmaker> what about yexo and terkhen?
14:45:23  <andythenorth> ^^
14:45:25  <andythenorth> :)
14:45:26  <planetmaker> :-)
14:45:35  <Ammler> (fully ok for me, I got way too much credits for firs already :-P
14:46:24  <planetmaker> Ammler: if you know how to fix building for distros and especially for suse: by all means just fix it
14:46:37  <planetmaker> if it includes to force the makefile single-threaded... meh, so it be
14:47:09  <Ammler> planetmaker: well, what rubi pasted would be a quick fix, to guard that by check for gimp and parameter would be nicer
14:47:10  <planetmaker> just worry about the default branch, I'll do backporting to 0.4 branch when needed
14:47:28  <andythenorth> Ammler: wrt FIRS you maintain devzone, which is essential
14:49:12  <Ammler> planetmaker: is there a target to clean gimp files beside the maintainer-clean?
14:49:31  <Ammler> I just wonder, when else you would use maintainer-clean then
14:49:52  <planetmaker> that's the target to clean the png files, yes
14:50:16  <planetmaker> hm, maybe distclean
14:50:17  <Brot6> FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Feature #3441 (New): Update credits and compatibility information... (andythenorth) @
14:51:01  <andythenorth> FIRS needs 1.2.0-beta1, or nightly [r?????]
14:51:29  <planetmaker> 23166 is what I give for NML
14:51:33  <Rubidium> just say 23667 ;)
14:51:40  <planetmaker> but ^
14:52:11  <Ammler> andythenorth: a credit on readme is ok, but on the verbose small grf desc isn't needed ;-)
14:54:58  <Ammler> and since people can read readme ingame, the readme is very verbose anyway now
14:55:50  <Ammler> concering ingame readme reader, I would split the readme to game infos and setup info
14:56:01  <Ammler> e.g. a install.txt
14:56:25  <Ammler> the makefile targets are very usless in the readme
14:57:53  <Yexo> the part about updating is still useful even in-game
14:58:37  <Ammler> also the readme seems to have merge conflict parts in it
15:00:07  <planetmaker> didn't I find all?
15:00:08  <Ammler> btw. is it configureable, can you use another file than readme?
15:00:19  * andythenorth wonders what FIRS action 14 props should be wrt savegame etc
15:00:24  <Yexo> Ammler: no
15:01:00  <planetmaker> just same rev ;-)
15:01:06  <planetmaker> I forgot that, of course :S
15:01:25  <Ammler> Yexo: well, the point 5.2 isn't about updateding, thus uselss
15:02:12  <Ammler> optaining firs (point 2) could be moved down
15:02:46  <Rubidium> I hope it's obtaining in the readme
15:02:48  <Ammler> as you have firs already and that point is only useful if you like to get a testing version
15:03:01  <Ammler> Rubidium: yes :-)
15:03:03  <planetmaker> anyway. Got to go. I wish you all a nice new years eve
15:03:14  <andythenorth> planetmaker: you too, thanks
15:03:14  <planetmaker> And see you next year
15:03:14  <Ammler> you too pm
15:03:50  <Rubidium> planetmaker: too late for some last minute string translations? ;)
15:04:09  <Ammler> merge conflicts:
15:04:19  <Rubidium> otherwise leave them till next year ;)
15:07:58  <andythenorth> Ammler: where do you get the conflicts?
15:08:00  <andythenorth> or how?
15:08:10  <Brot6> FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Feature #3441: Update credits and compatibility information for 0... (andythenorth) @
15:08:22  <Ammler> <-- why doesn't the graph show the merge?
15:08:36  <Ammler> andythenorth: you do not see the <<<<?
15:09:08  <Ammler> looks more like a transplant as a merge
15:09:20  <andythenorth> you're right, I see those
15:09:28  <andythenorth> there was no hg message :P
15:09:51  <Ammler> :-)
15:10:34  <Ammler> I guess, you fixed the conflicts itself and simply fogot to remove the markes
15:11:03  <andythenorth> that would have been pm ;)
15:11:07  <andythenorth> I assume
15:11:19  <Ammler> whoever is you :-P
15:30:55  * andythenorth ponders full rewrite of FIRS readme
15:30:57  <andythenorth> meh
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17:13:20  <Brot6> Central European Train Set - Feature #3045: Länderbahn rolling stock (Elukka) @
17:19:02  <Brot6> FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Revision 2677:c003d3678c71: Change: add Bulk class to BDMT (andythenorth) @
17:30:20  <Brot6> FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Bug #3442 (New): DevZone compile failed (compiler) @
17:52:09  <Brot6> Dutch Road Furniture - Revision 83:f77777336aa0: Feature: guardrails for median inside corners (p... (foobar) @
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17:56:51  <andythenorth> meh
17:56:55  <andythenorth> why does FIRS fail?
17:57:05  <andythenorth> CC_NEO_BULK isn't found in my local repo
17:57:40  <andythenorth> nmlc: "sprites/nml/cargo_props.pnml", line 506: Unrecognized identifier 'CC_NEO_BULK' encountered
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18:00:11  <Brot6> opengfx: update from r894 to r899 done -
18:01:56  <Brot6> bandit: update from r47 to r48 done -
18:03:58  <Brot6> dutchroadfurniture: update from r77 to r83 done -
18:07:04  <Brot6> FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Revision 2678:aca34a6fb979: Fix: typo in checks file message (andythenorth) @
18:08:49  <Brot6> firs: compile of r2675 still failed (#3442) -
18:14:24  <Brot6> Dutch Road Furniture - Feature #3067: guardrails (foobar) @
18:25:49  <Brot6> Dutch Road Furniture - Revision 84:c99ff3cd3882: Docs: update readme (foobar) @
18:38:46  <Brot6> nutracks: compile of r210 still failed (#3387) -
18:40:58  <Brot6> FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Revision 2679:ccc3d6a11833: Change: remove silver from coast para... (andythenorth) @
18:41:43  <Brot6> FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Bug #3443 (New): Station rating parameter needs a description (andythenorth) @
18:53:01  <Brot6> FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Revision 2680:3cd14533890c: Change: update readme significantly (andythenorth) @
18:54:13  <andythenorth> hmm
18:54:24  * andythenorth kind of needs to fix FIRS building - for a release
18:54:36  <andythenorth> wtf is wrong with it :(
18:55:17  <Rubidium> it uses stable nml for building instead of nighly nml?
18:55:25  <andythenorth> maybe
18:55:40  <andythenorth> it's reporting a missing identifier, but that has been removed
18:55:45  <andythenorth> it's not in my local repo at all
18:59:29  <Brot6> FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Revision 2681:80cb269efa6c: Change: format readme better for 80 c... (andythenorth) @
19:03:48  <andythenorth> Ammler: how do we tell CF to 'hg up tip' for FIRS?
19:04:34  <andythenorth> or maybe that's wrong :(
19:04:44  <andythenorth> I'm not sure if we're supposed to be on 0.7 branch or tip
19:04:53  <andythenorth> s/ tip / trunk
19:04:53  <^Spike^> i get a feeling that any CF questions will be answered next year :)
19:05:14  <^Spike^> and it's not part of my knowledge how CF works :)
19:07:12  <Brot6> Following repos rebuilds successful without any difference to earlier nightlies builds: ogfx-trains, bros (1 warnings), ogfx-industries, foobarstramtracks (Diffsize: 37132), transrapidtrackset, 2cctrainset (78 warnings), cets (373 warnings), worldairlinersset, heqs, basecosts, water-features, isr (2 warnings), 32bpp-extra (2 warnings), manindu (Diffsize: 2), newgrf_makefile (Diffsize: 12), dutchtrains, rust (Diffsize: 188), ogfx-biggui
19:07:12  <Brot6> (Diffsize: 30), snowlinemod, dutchtramset, swisstowns (Diffsize: 43), metrotrackset (Diffsize: 1), spanishtowns (Diffsize: 8), frenchtowns (Diffsize: 21), ogfx-rv, fish, ogfx-landscape (2 warnings), ttrs (7 warnings), ogfx-trees, swedishrails, german-townnames (Diffsize: 51), smts (Diffsize: 8), chips (1 warnings), dach (Diffsize: 10855), belarusiantowns (Diffsize: 64), indonesiantowns (1 warnings) (Diffsize: 29), airportsplus,
19:07:14  <Brot6> comic-houses (3 warnings) (Diffsize: 22)
19:08:18  <Brot6> firs: compile of r2675 still failed (#3442) -
19:09:22  <Brot6> firs: compile of r2675 still failed (#3442) -
19:10:27  <Brot6> firs: compile of r2675 still failed (#3442) -
19:11:25  <Brot6> firs: compile of r2675 still failed (#3442) -
19:12:22  <Brot6> firs: compile of r2675 still failed (#3442) -
19:13:08  <Brot6> FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Revision 2682:2d6c6beb0319: Docs: update changelog preparatory to... (andythenorth) @
19:15:23  <Brot6> FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Feature #3441: Update credits and compatibility information for 0... (andythenorth) @
19:17:27  <Brot6> Dutch Road Furniture - Revision 85:471c888d58c3: Feature: left side drive motorway direction sign... (foobar) @
19:17:27  <Brot6> Dutch Road Furniture - Revision 86:e1cbdc83ce0d: Feature: left side drive motorway gantry signs (... (foobar) @
19:21:12  <Brot6> Dutch Road Furniture - Revision 87:47669c620452: Fix (r86): reorder some building blocks to aid p... (foobar) @
19:29:12  <Brot6> FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Revision 2683:5c0d3a957570: Change: (translations) update in-game... (andythenorth) @
19:37:43  <Ammler> andythenorth: if you want to build non-default, you need to tag
19:37:57  <Ammler> it does not update to tip
19:38:04  <Ammler> it does update to default
19:38:31  <andythenorth> ok
19:38:31  <andythenorth> so when I tag 0.7.0 all should be well?
19:38:44  <Ammler> just tag a 0.7.0-beta :-P
19:38:50  <Ammler> or fix default
19:39:54  <Ammler> hg up default
19:39:58  <Ammler> hg merge 0.7
19:41:21  <andythenorth> I don't know what pm's intention was
19:41:21  <andythenorth> he merged to 0.7 branch for a reason I guess
19:41:21  <andythenorth> better I don't change what I don't understand
19:41:51  <Ammler> well, the bad thing pm does is backporting devel to stable, instead the easier way merging stable to devel
19:42:19  <Ammler> if fear this is kind of bad svn coding style
19:43:11  <Ammler> because svn isn't really able to merge
19:43:57  <Ammler> so yes, maybe better to wait for pm
19:44:06  <Ammler> and make a testing release tag
19:45:34  <Ammler> but you should do that now, I might not be able to help you fixing it if you plan to make a 0 o'clock release :-P
19:46:40  <Ammler> (the testing tag, I mean)
19:49:23  <andythenorth> ok
19:50:31  <Brot6> FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Revision 2684:0b066d7ab857: Added tag 0.7.0-beta2 for changeset 5... (andythenorth) @
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19:53:44  <Brot6> firs: update from 0.7.0-beta1 to 0.7.0-beta2 done -
19:56:35  <Brot6> Dutch Road Furniture - Feature #3433 (Assigned): left hand drive support (foobar) @
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19:57:04  <Ammler> andythenorth: all fine, right?
19:57:23  <andythenorth> Ammler: seems so :)
19:57:26  <Ammler> then I wish you all a good new year :-P
19:57:26  <andythenorth> thanks
19:57:30  <andythenorth> you too
19:57:46  <Brot6> Dutch Road Furniture - Revision 88:e1471dba766d: Feature: left side drive motorway matrix signs (... (foobar) @
19:58:30  <Brot6> Dutch Road Furniture - Revision 89:e778854c52bf: Feature: remove designed for right hand drive no... (foobar) @
20:04:47  <Brot6> FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Revision 2685:dec6d5ed7641: Change: set minimum compatible versio... (andythenorth) @
20:07:43  <Brot6> FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Revision 2686:3436d3198f6a: Change: set minimum ottd rev to 23667 (andythenorth) @
20:18:54  <Brot6> FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Revision 2687:aa1b0e355aed: Change: cleanup readme line endings a... (andythenorth) @
20:20:02  <Brot6> FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Feature #3441 (Closed): Update credits and compatibility informat... (andythenorth) @
20:26:51  <Brot6> FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Feature #3444 (New): Update project overview page content (andythenorth) @
20:26:57  <andythenorth> hmm
20:27:00  <andythenorth> probably done then
20:44:42  <Brot6> FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Revision 2688:ccdc5b09e404: Added tag 0.7.0 for changeset aa1b0e3... (andythenorth) @
20:44:43  <Brot6> FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Revision 2689:a0071fe859fe: Codechange: remove premature 0.7.0 tag (andythenorth) @
20:44:43  <Brot6> FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Revision 2690:0a28a9dae559: Change: improve formatting of readme ... (andythenorth) @
21:06:04  <Brot6> FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Revision 2691:3a3eea57fe93: Added tag 0.7.0 for changeset 0a28a9d... (andythenorth) @
21:14:56  <Brot6> firs: update from 0.7.0-beta2 to 0.7.0 done -
21:21:57  <Brot6> FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Bug #3442 (Closed): DevZone compile failed (andythenorth) @
21:22:45  <Brot6> FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Feature #3097 (Closed): Consider to release a testing version to ... (andythenorth) @
21:58:15  <Brot6> Dutch Road Furniture - Revision 90:0d6e005d70ad: Fix (r77): error in activator purchase sprite (foobar) @
21:58:16  <Brot6> Dutch Road Furniture - Revision 91:c4d1e956726d: Feature: left hand drive purchase menu sprites f... (foobar) @
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22:04:01  <Brot6> Dutch Road Furniture - Revision 92:7721db7ed709: Feature: have activators recognize position of l... (foobar) @
22:04:01  <Brot6> Dutch Road Furniture - Feature #3433 (Closed): left hand drive support (foobar) @
22:06:44  <Rubidium> new FIRS release and it's not on bananas, or do you want it to be the FIRSt release of 2012?
22:09:34  <Rubidium> although I find left hand drive Dutch road furniture odd as well ;)
22:10:36  <Rubidium> as far as I know there is only one bit of 'road' where they drive on the left side... and that's a railroad (HSL Zuid south of Rotterdam)
22:13:31  <andythenorth> Rubidium: last of 2011
22:13:38  <andythenorth> unless foobar beats me :P
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22:39:20  <andythenorth> Rubidium: what timezone is bananas in?
22:39:42  <Rubidium> I hope UTC
22:40:06  <andythenorth> hmm
22:40:10  <andythenorth> wonder what timezone I'm in :P
22:40:28  <Rubidium> BT?
22:42:54  <Rubidium> but you're in GMT
22:43:29  <andythenorth> is it 22.43 for bananas?  or 23.43?
22:43:50  <Rubidium> if it's UTC, then 22:43
22:46:05  <andythenorth> oh
22:46:14  <andythenorth> no 1.2.0 on bananas version list
22:47:08  <Rubidium> there's no 1.2.0 release yet ;)
22:47:25  <andythenorth> is there a custom number I can use?
22:47:47  <andythenorth> for 1.2.0-beta1
22:48:10  <Rubidium> @base 10 16 23667
22:48:10  <Webster> Rubidium: 5C73
22:48:27  <Rubidium> @base 16 10 12005C73
22:48:27  <Webster> Rubidium: 302013555
22:48:33  <Rubidium> ^ that
22:48:45  <Rubidium> @base 10 16 268435456
22:48:45  <Webster> Rubidium: 10000000
22:49:20  <Rubidium> yep, that 302013555 seems right
22:50:18  <andythenorth> perfect, thanks :)
22:51:08  <andythenorth> seems to work
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