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Log for #openttdcoop.devzone on 2nd January 2012:
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01:48:12  <Ammler> Yexo: how should he be able to provide a savegame, if he isn't able to start a game?
01:49:11  <Ammler> oh, already almost 3
01:49:15  <Ammler> mäh, good night
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10:26:50  <Brot6> Dutch Road Furniture - Revision 93:9c95eec9e863: Feature: disable roadside trees and streetlights... (foobar) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/dutchroadfurniture/repository/revisions/9c95eec9e863
10:26:50  <Brot6> Dutch Road Furniture - Revision 94:84a8d6c1db40: Feature: full UK roads support for gantries (iss... (foobar) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/dutchroadfurniture/repository/revisions/84a8d6c1db40
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12:58:17  <planetmaker> hi andythenorth
13:03:18  <planetmaker> I can't say I'm surprised by his answer. It's the same as always. "This is my opinion. We discussed it. I keep it. I don't care about the rest"
13:03:44  <planetmaker> I honestly care not about ttdp and that compatibility anymore.
13:04:02  <planetmaker> and we have the new vehicle properties to make things easier. If they're used
13:04:31  <planetmaker> which he simply refuses to acknowledge and to exist. He wants to keep the traditional way with bits and xor. So let it be
13:04:50  <planetmaker> and similar with classes. It was all discussed and the result is well ignored. Oh well
13:06:18  <planetmaker> he'll repeat the same thing over and over in different words until one agrees - or ignores it.
13:06:39  <andythenorth> it's really George I need an answer from - as we've changed a class he's using
13:07:41  <planetmaker> I agree though, the tone is amiable. But the result to concede and (also) use the new opportunities is zero.
13:07:51  <andythenorth> I think BDMT would justify powdered - I overlooked the side effect of setting bulk, which is bricks etc travelling by hopper :)
13:08:17  <planetmaker> no. if it's bulk, then it's cement. then it's ok
13:08:25  <andythenorth> I'm also inclined not to change FISH to SEFD  - and to close the ticket about that
13:08:28  <planetmaker> it's a "soft" cargo with many representations. like lumber
13:08:48  <planetmaker> s/lumber/wood products/
13:09:02  <andythenorth> I wouldn't fancy counting cement grains
13:09:05  <planetmaker> I'm not sure about FISH. It has too good cargo support
13:09:17  <andythenorth> graphics?
13:09:38  <planetmaker> I think some sets do. At least they take special care of FISH already
13:09:52  <andythenorth> let's bounce the ticket then, I'll reject it
13:09:53  <planetmaker> But I'd not like powder for bdmt
13:10:00  <andythenorth> any particular reason?
13:10:03  <planetmaker> it kinda negates the argument for the secondary classes
13:10:05  <planetmaker> with the not
13:10:19  <planetmaker> imho it's 180° of what you argued for classes
13:10:32  <andythenorth> but Eddi won that argument, not me
13:10:36  <andythenorth> I conceded
13:10:54  <planetmaker> then I don't know what hte argument is. I go by what the wiki now states
13:11:06  <planetmaker> and that means "no powder" in my eyes for bdmt
13:11:12  <andythenorth> to me, wiki suggests we should be setting 'bulk + powder' if we want cement ;)
13:11:21  <planetmaker> as it would result to exclude bdmt from any non-powder wagon
13:11:23  <planetmaker> which is very bad
13:11:31  <planetmaker> I don't want cement
13:11:37  <planetmaker> as the only idea of it
13:11:38  <andythenorth> should only exclude from bulk wagons, not piece
13:11:41  <planetmaker> thus: no powder
13:12:05  <andythenorth> ...but would exclude from wagons that were bulk AND/OR piece
13:12:10  <andythenorth> such as open wagons...
13:12:12  <andythenorth> meh
13:12:18  <planetmaker> hm, makes sense
13:12:23  <planetmaker> maybe. If you prefer
13:12:38  <andythenorth> well I don't like that additional exclusion from open wagons.  It's of no help
13:12:43  <planetmaker> but then other bulk things aren't covered
13:13:00  <andythenorth> I think these extra classes are broadly unusable :P
13:13:10  <planetmaker> which could also be transported bulk. Though we have sand and gravel and stuff extra
13:13:57  <andythenorth> let's leave it be
13:14:26  <Brot6> FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Feature #3437 (Rejected): Consider new cargo label replacing FISH (andythenorth) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/3437#change-9018
13:17:22  <andythenorth> ho
13:17:34  <andythenorth> the UKRS 2 covered hopper has some interesting refits
13:17:51  <andythenorth> Wool, Fish, Goods, Recyclables
13:17:57  <andythenorth> none of which are remotely appropriate :)
13:18:22  <planetmaker> he. well. I'd not mind recyclables. But meh to the rest
13:18:32  <andythenorth> hey ho
13:18:55  <andythenorth> I think the answer is to make my own train set :D
13:19:02  <planetmaker> :-P
13:19:21  <planetmaker> well. That's the class cruft. And ukrs2 also doesn't yet use the new method of cargo include / exclude
13:19:29  <planetmaker> nor for special treatment
13:19:48  <andythenorth> so I'm done with classes until somebody can prove there's a problem :)
13:19:51  <andythenorth> we've done all we can
13:19:54  <planetmaker> these oddities are due to the mucked up classes in the first place. And the fuzzy way on how they should be used
13:19:57  <planetmaker> yes, I think we did
13:20:11  <planetmaker> we can't safe the world. Only make our home a better place
13:20:37  * andythenorth looks to 0.7.1 tickets
13:20:55  <andythenorth> #2755 has me baffled
13:20:56  <Brot6> andythenorth: #2755 is http://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/show/2755 "FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Bug #2755: Grain Mill snow sprites - incorrect ground tile. - #openttdcoop Development Zone"
13:21:51  <planetmaker> is it still valid?
13:21:55  <andythenorth> yes
13:22:15  <andythenorth> shows full tile snow during the snowline transition
13:22:25  <andythenorth> probably just an obiwan or such
13:22:35  <planetmaker> maybe not using the template
13:22:56  <andythenorth> iirc, we discussed that FIRS has two snow templates in use
13:23:01  <andythenorth> and that we needed to unify?
13:23:04  <andythenorth> I might misremember
13:24:15  <planetmaker> it uses, as far as a quick look goes, the old binary snow template
13:24:20  <planetmaker> not ground aware
13:24:44  <andythenorth> that would explain it
13:24:58  <planetmaker> hm. or... ?
13:25:06  <planetmaker> strange, builder's yard looks the same
13:27:50  <andythenorth> forest is interesting
13:28:00  <andythenorth> we think snow can't fall under the trees? :D
13:29:51  <planetmaker> :-)
13:32:52  <planetmaker> ah, well, andythenorth. The grain mill has a lot of custom ground tile which is drawn onto the groundaware ground
13:32:59  <planetmaker> thus the result might be either snow or no snow
13:33:22  <andythenorth> I thought I left some clear
13:33:23  * andythenorth checks
13:33:34  <planetmaker> wait... hm... grain mill? the old or the new?
13:33:48  <andythenorth> the brick one
13:33:59  <andythenorth> .old.png looks redundant
13:34:04  <andythenorth> should probably be deleted
13:34:27  <andythenorth> the ground is ~80% covered in the version I'm referring to :)
13:34:44  <planetmaker> yes, that's what I see, too
13:35:10  <andythenorth> hmm
13:35:24  <andythenorth> I remember looking at this before
13:35:38  <andythenorth> the original ttd buildings also show complete snow around buildings even on snow transition
13:35:51  <andythenorth> I'm not sure it's an issue, apart from the graphical discontinuity
13:36:06  <andythenorth> maybe we just fence the industry and it won't stand out so much
13:39:27  <andythenorth> hmm
13:39:34  <andythenorth> I don't like closing tickets with 'good enough'
13:39:40  <andythenorth> good enough != awesome :P
14:01:41  <Brot6> FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Revision 2697:1ae8323dae90: Change: improve text for 'no opening'... (andythenorth) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/firs/repository/revisions/1ae8323dae90
14:01:58  <planetmaker> nah, keep the ticket open for now
14:02:56  <andythenorth> planetmaker: I am writing a description text for station rating parameter
14:03:05  <andythenorth> in your words, what do you think it does?
14:03:08  <andythenorth> :)
14:03:31  <Yexo> so s/I am writing/I'm making planetmaker write/ ? :p
14:03:59  * andythenorth isn't sure where to start :P
14:06:08  <andythenorth> "By default, station ratings are a broken for the way many people play.  This setting helps you fix that"
14:06:10  <andythenorth> :P
14:08:26  <planetmaker> lool
14:08:38  <andythenorth> "Station ratings affect the amount of cargo that industries provide to stations."
14:08:51  <planetmaker> sounds good
14:09:17  <planetmaker> though: The higher your station rating, the more cargo an industry delivers to that station
14:09:53  <planetmaker> (as 2nd sentence)
14:10:18  * andythenorth tests
14:14:53  <andythenorth> first sentence is redundant
14:15:59  <andythenorth> hmm
14:16:34  <andythenorth> fixed
14:17:23  <planetmaker> Station ratings influence the amount of cargo delivered by an industry to the station; the higher the rating, the more is delivered. This setting allows you to change the default behaviour of how station rating changes
14:17:46  <planetmaker> hm... much redundancy
14:17:59  <planetmaker> scrap last sentence. s/;/:/
14:19:24  <andythenorth> currently I just have
14:19:25  <andythenorth> Station ratings affect the amount of cargo that industries provide to stations. Industry will provide more cargo to stations with higher ratings.
14:19:48  <andythenorth> but your first one is better
14:19:54  <andythenorth> Station ratings influence the amount of cargo delivered by an industry to the station; the higher the rating, the more is delivered.
14:25:42  <Brot6> FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Revision 2698:e4f365f50c9c: Change: set description text for stat... (andythenorth) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/firs/repository/revisions/e4f365f50c9c
14:25:42  <Brot6> FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Bug #3443 (Closed): Station rating parameter needs a description (andythenorth) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/3443#change-9019
14:30:56  <andythenorth> planetmaker: what do you want to do about #3021?
14:30:56  <Brot6> andythenorth: planetmaker: #3021 is http://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/show/3021 "FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Bug #3021: German translation - #openttdcoop Development Zone"
14:36:03  <planetmaker> keep open and look at before 0.7.1
14:36:24  <planetmaker> like an eternal reminder to me ;-)
14:36:35  <planetmaker> bounce from release to release :-P
14:36:47  <planetmaker> I'll up it when I'm done prior to a release
14:37:21  <planetmaker> or you just move it, when nothing was changed and nothing needs review.
14:37:28  <planetmaker> like would now be the case. Maybe
15:00:19  * andythenorth biab
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17:12:34  <Brot6> NewGRF Meta Language - Bug #3450 (New): nml output for replacenew (yexo) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/3450
17:14:16  <Ammler> Yexo: did you find the different newgrf issue already?
17:14:45  <Yexo> no, I didn't find a way to download the wrong grfs compiled without the -c flag
17:15:09  <Ammler> ah, shall I prepare that for you?
17:15:16  <Yexo> please do
17:16:16  <Ammler> is it worth to make a little howto for bulding with osc, would you guys use it?
17:16:43  <Yexo> what is osc?
17:16:57  <Ammler> opensource buildservice console
17:17:10  <Yexo> I wouldn't have a use for it
17:17:36  <Ammler> it does setup build environement of all "good" distros
17:29:33  <Ammler> http://build.openttdcoop.org/~ammler/build/openSUSE_Factory-x86_64/home/abuild/rpmbuild/BUILD/opengfx-0.4.1-source/
17:29:41  <Ammler> running for SLE_11 now
17:29:56  <Brot6> firs: update from r2695 to r2698 done (11 warnings) - http://bundles.openttdcoop.org/firs/nightlies/r2698
17:31:56  <Brot6> bandit: update from r48 to r50 done - http://bundles.openttdcoop.org/bandit/nightlies/r50
17:33:56  <Ammler> http://build.openttdcoop.org/~ammler/build/openSUSE_Factory-x86_64/.build.log
17:34:27  <Brot6> dutchroadfurniture: update from r92 to r94 done - http://bundles.openttdcoop.org/dutchroadfurniture/nightlies/r94
17:35:27  <Ammler> http://build.openttdcoop.org/~ammler/build/SLE_11-x86_64/.build.log
17:35:50  <Ammler> http://build.openttdcoop.org/~ammler/build/SLE_11-x86_64/usr/src/packages/BUILD/opengfx-0.4.1-source/
17:36:33  <Ammler> Factory: < 47056bc0e01d6a0a53fdcfd6cbd8e761  ogfxe_extra.grf
17:36:57  <Ammler> SLE_11 < a5cf9abced6a7dfff5a0ab6ef6319550  ogfxe_extra.grf
17:37:21  <Ammler> Yexo: ^
17:37:43  <Brot6> nutracks: compile of r210 still failed (#3387) - http://bundles.openttdcoop.org/nutracks/nightlies/ERROR/r210
17:53:58  <Yexo> Ammler: is it possible to download those directories as packed file?
17:54:12  <Ammler> wget -m?
17:54:19  <Yexo> ok
17:54:32  <Ammler> but I can make you tar, but that might be damn huge
17:54:59  <Ammler> also if you do not download it now, maybe better to use 12.1
17:55:06  <Ammler> instead factory
17:55:16  <Yexo> no, it's fine
17:55:20  <Yexo> the difference is in 4 sprites
17:55:46  <Ammler> oh, you already found the issue?
17:55:54  <Yexo> where was that php file with sprite overview again?
17:57:36  <Ammler> http://mz.openttdcoop.org/opengfx/newgrf.php?1=1000
17:57:49  <Ammler> or do you mean the authorsoverview?
17:57:57  <Yexo> 3133..3136, seemingly empty sprites
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17:58:53  <Yexo> but not empty at all in the failed build
18:01:12  <Ammler> http://mz.openttdcoop.org/opengfx/newgrf.php?1=3133:3136 <-- those?
18:01:30  <Yexo> no, 3133 from the extra grf
18:01:47  <Ammler> ah
18:01:54  <Ammler> yes, extra has no viewer
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18:09:27  <Brot6> Dutch Trains 2.0 - Feature #3434: NS100 (Voyager1) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/3434#change-9021
18:12:19  <Ammler> Yexo: do we need to fix that on opengfx?
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18:14:19  <Yexo> Ammler: we can't until we know what causes the difference
18:15:15  <Ammler> http://bundles.openttdcoop.org/opengfx/releases/0.4.1/grf2html/ogfxe_extra/ <-- where are those sprites?
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18:15:37  <Yexo> 3133 sprites/png/terrain/waterfeatures/rivermouth_tropical_ne.gimp.png 241 97 01 23 64 -31 0  <- that's the first sprite
18:16:05  <Yexo> just search for 3133 there
18:16:16  <Ammler> ah yeah
18:16:41  <Ammler> well, since crop isn't the issue, a NOCROP wouldn't help
18:19:10  <Ammler> I guess, that is what you wanted to check :-)
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18:59:51  <Brot6> SuperLib - Revision 43:58ba718397bb: Fix: Aircrafts => Aircraft. Wrapper functions for the old na... (Zuu) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/superlib/repository/revisions/58ba718397bb
19:04:25  <Brot6> SuperLib - Revision 44:64d1ed30fa0d: As per request, make SetSign return the sign id (Zuu) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/superlib/repository/revisions/64d1ed30fa0d
19:12:25  <Ammler> year 2011: Hosting: 808.39 GoogleAds: -162.78 Donations: -43.44 Sponsoring planetmaker & ammler: 602.17
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19:17:25  <Ammler> well and 4 months in 2010
19:20:00  <Rubidium> so 2012 already surpassed the 2011 donations quite significantly
19:22:02  <planetmaker> yup
19:22:06  <planetmaker> :-)
19:23:01  <Ammler> @calc 12*41.18
19:23:01  <Webster> Ammler: 494.16
19:23:10  <Ammler> that will be hosting for 2012
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19:29:51  <frosch123> oh, right ... donations time ... which project needs some?
19:29:54  <frosch123> :)
19:30:39  <Rubidium> frosch123: see http://www.openttd.org/en/news/160 to get a clue
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19:31:54  <frosch123> 30 months :p
19:32:05  <frosch123> silly amount
19:32:58  <Rubidium> of months or money?
19:34:58  <frosch123> months
19:35:20  <Ammler> Rubidium: well, your issue is that your current server is for free ;-)
19:35:26  <frosch123> it's about 30% of the livetime of ottd till today
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20:24:39  <andythenorth> so I don't need to donate to Devzone?
20:24:43  <andythenorth> or I do?
20:24:55  <andythenorth> I offered ages ago, but nobody took me up on it :D
20:25:26  <planetmaker> well, there's the paypal button. For ages. But I can't create a subscription thingy there
20:28:38  <orudge> planetmaker: you can, but it'd have to be for a fixed amount. I tend to ask people to contact me directly if they want to set up a subscription :)
20:30:16  <planetmaker> orudge: as I see it, it'd require me to make it a commercial account. Which it isn't so far
20:30:25  <planetmaker> And I'm not sure what it implies exactly
20:35:29  <orudge> planetmaker: ah, right
20:35:29  <orudge> t
20:35:34  <orudge> well, more fees, probably
20:35:38  <orudge> do you get charged fees when you receive donations?
20:36:21  <planetmaker> I didn't see any charge from what you donated to coop
20:36:30  <orudge> that's because I paid the fees
20:36:32  <orudge> for that one
20:36:57  <planetmaker> hm... the last ones: yes, there were. Though not 100% sure whether that was declared 'donation'
20:37:15  <orudge> hmm
20:37:19  <orudge> I think "personal payments" should be fee-free
20:37:26  <orudge> although if you do a cross-border payment, they charge a small fee
20:37:32  <orudge> if they charge from a credit card, they charge a larger fee
20:37:45  <orudge> but "normal" payments (including donations) always charge something like 3% + 20p
20:37:46  <planetmaker> that might have been the case there
20:38:03  <orudge> in my experience at least
20:43:07  <Ammler> andythenorth: for you it might make most sense to simply donate to openttd/tt-forums (orudge)
20:43:14  <andythenorth> I do that :)
20:43:31  <Ammler> we got money from there so it is fine :-)
20:46:54  <planetmaker> I'll find out the fees hopefully soon enough :-)
20:47:08  <planetmaker> Ammler: why would that make more sense?
20:48:00  <andythenorth> I could always IBAN the money
20:48:04  <andythenorth> although I think IBAN has a fee too
20:48:18  <Ammler> because it might be better to donate on one place instead on 3 different
20:48:39  <planetmaker> andythenorth: it has. At least probably from GB to EUR-zone
20:48:40  <Rubidium> andythenorth: not if you've got an EUR account; then sending money to planetmaker is free
20:49:11  <andythenorth> I am -1 on EUR account
20:49:33  <andythenorth> if we wait a bit, I can donate a small amount of GBP and it will deliver you a lot of EUR :P
20:49:38  <andythenorth> maybe
20:49:42  <andythenorth> or vice versa :P
20:50:03  <andythenorth> maybe I will be sending francs, gilders and DM
20:50:42  <Ammler> andythenorth: I can give you CHF account :-P
20:51:37  <planetmaker> hehe
20:51:56  <Ammler> but CHF is very expensive right now
20:52:59  <andythenorth> also
20:53:08  <andythenorth> \o/ for truebrain and his love of optimisation :)
20:53:15  * andythenorth always thinks "buy a bigger computer" :P
20:53:20  <andythenorth> lazy
20:54:24  <Terkhen> you might want to say that in a channel where he is actually present :P
20:54:37  <andythenorth> nah
20:54:53  <andythenorth> flattery is embarassing :)
20:56:35  <^Spike^> you know this channel is logged right? :)
20:56:46  <^Spike^> all that needs to be done is pointed to the log ;)
20:57:37  <Terkhen> :D
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