Log for #openttdcoop.devzone on 17th May 2012:
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10:04:41  <Brot6> Script Communication Protocol - Revision 9:18b645f571b7: - Invalidate all commands before registrati... (krinn) @
10:40:59  <Brot6> Script Communication Protocol - Revision 10:e1c8a5ba73b6: - fix ident spacing in main.nut (krinn) @
11:04:10  <Brot6> Dutch Trains 2 - Revision 572:a2ae0b9162e1: Feature: loading speeds for wagons (issue #3686, closes ... (foobar) @
11:04:10  <Brot6> Dutch Trains 2 - Feature #3905 (Closed): Loading speed (foobar) @
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12:16:12  <Brot6> OpenGFX+ Trains - Revision 486:c1ff976ee645: Update: Gresley A4 Tender (Xotic750) @
12:43:21  <Brot6> Script Communication Protocol - Revision 11:2b67e045444d: - Add public function to get communication... (krinn) @
12:51:16  <Brot6> Script Communication Protocol - Revision 12:8749e0dd24f2: - Moving Communication Tile to pos 2,1 (krinn) @
12:57:30  <Brot6> Script Communication Protocol - Revision 13:02b688f587a6: - Update AI/GS sample with new communicati... (krinn) @
13:03:35  <Brot6> Script Communication Protocol - Revision 14:db7531e2ad98: - Move public functions at start and priva... (krinn) @
13:47:33  <Brot6> OpenGFX+ Trains - Revision 487:b01ec48e023b: Update: Sub-surface specularity optimisation (Xotic750) @
13:54:24  <Brot6> OpenGFX+ Trains - Revision 488:48b4a114263c: Update: Added Gresley A4 Tender to model list (Xotic750) @
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15:00:28  <Brot6> OpenGFX+ Trains - Revision 489:417841b5e0c8: Feature: New ½ length wagon templates (Xotic750) @
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15:23:09  <Brot6> Script Communication Protocol - Revision 15:b93c99fb4130: Add: Simple DoxyGen-like documentation tha... (Zuu) @
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15:52:26  <Brot6> Script Communication Protocol - Revision 16:707b8319944b: Fix: docs build script (Zuu) @
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16:01:32  <Brot6> Script Communication Protocol - Revision 17:7161b8167601: Add: more documentation (Zuu) @
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16:35:21  <Brot6> Script Communication Protocol - Revision 18:73704f74d40a: Tidy up the docs builder script (Zuu) @
17:01:03  <Brot6> Script Communication Protocol - Revision 19:b33ab41a963c: Fix: also support ... params (Zuu) @
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17:12:41  <Terkhen> planetmaker: I have been checking the auto refit implementation in ogfx-trains :)
17:12:46  <Terkhen> it's a nice feature
17:13:04  <planetmaker> ty :-)
17:13:17  <planetmaker> and indeed, I like autorefit very much, too.
17:14:45  <Terkhen> since they are yet another thing that will be equal between ogfx-trains and ogf-rv, I was wondering if it would be worth to move the callback definitions to a separate file that we can share more easily
17:17:29  <Terkhen> I was thinking on a "vehicle_definition" file which would include both the refit properties and refit callbacks
17:17:49  <planetmaker> ah, I see. Yes... that could make sense
17:17:51  <andythenorth> python class :P
17:18:02  * andythenorth will be doing that for trucks
17:18:14  <planetmaker> sounds like a good idea actually, Terkhen
17:18:42  <Terkhen> ok, I'll implement it that way in ogfx-rv then :)
17:19:20  <Terkhen> I also noticed a few missing cargos in the callbacks, I'm not sure if those are intended or not... for example, fibre crops does not appear in the bulk wagon callbacks
17:20:03  <Terkhen> I also saw that there is no reference to SCMT (andy's new label for scrap metal) in the bulk wagon file so it is probably using wrong sprites for newer version of FIRS
17:20:27  <andythenorth> stupidity :P
17:20:36  <andythenorth> that was the most insane thing
17:20:54  <planetmaker> hm, I thought I added that label somewhen somewhere. But I might wrongly remember
17:21:19  <planetmaker> slightly different topic... any preference how to deal with tenders in ogfx+trains, Terkhen?
17:21:40  <Terkhen> don't? :P
17:21:48  <planetmaker> :-D
17:22:09  <planetmaker> well, they *do* make sense for steam engines. But...
17:22:11  <Terkhen> I suppose that some people want them, though
17:22:16  <planetmaker> - normal wagons w/o effect?
17:22:28  <Terkhen> IMO it should qualify as an "advanced setting"
17:22:32  <planetmaker> - articulated things, so that engines always have them (breaks default somewhat)
17:22:51  <planetmaker> - special wagons which might give some extra power or so to encourage their use
17:23:01  <planetmaker> all could come with an adv. setting in a way
17:23:10  <Terkhen> the setting could have three options: do not use (default), eye candy, do actually something ingame
17:24:06  <Terkhen> having both of the last two options might be a PITA, though
17:24:11  <V453000> if the steamer engines would end up being longer than 8/8 it would break ogfx+ trains quite majorly I think ... you couldnt make maximum amount of wagons to them and when you would autoreplace to shorter engines you would miss them
17:24:20  <Terkhen> in that case, eye candy should go out
17:25:11  <planetmaker> they would end up longer than 8/8 for sure
17:25:26  <V453000> that would be quite a problem
17:25:30  <planetmaker> why?
17:25:41  <V453000> well you would have for example a train and 4 wagons for TL3
17:25:44  <planetmaker> for autoreplace, that the result with newer engines would be shorter?
17:25:48  <V453000> but you would need 5 wagons later
17:25:55  <Terkhen> V453000: it would be disabled by default :P
17:25:57  <planetmaker> how is that an issue?
17:26:09  <planetmaker> it would be an issue if *later* engines would be longer
17:26:13  <V453000> well you usually want to keep your train length and use it most effectively
17:26:49  <V453000> using .5 length just because the former engines were too long is ... strange
17:26:56  <V453000> could be solved by having short wagons though!
17:28:03  <V453000> you did plan some shorter wagons anyway, didnt you
17:28:29  <planetmaker> yes, indeed
17:28:39  <planetmaker> but that would then only work with a certain train length
17:28:47  <V453000> not really
17:29:22  <V453000> you would have ... say, 12/8 steamer, add 9 4/8 wagons to it and later you could easily autoreplace to a 8/8 engine with five 8/8 wagons
17:29:31  <V453000> works with any train length really
17:29:55  <V453000> most train sets do that after all
17:29:59  <planetmaker> eh?
17:30:25  <planetmaker> if engine 12 -> 8 and wagons 4->8: how would the result be the same independent of train length?
17:31:32  <planetmaker> hm... you mean autoreplace with "keep train length"?
17:31:38  <planetmaker> yes... then indeed. Didn't think of that
17:31:40  <V453000> ah yes
17:31:48  <V453000> not sure if I phrased it correctly
17:32:10  <V453000> basically to have more wagons formerly, so the autoreplace can remove them, but not miss them
17:32:21  <planetmaker> yeah
17:33:08  <Terkhen> planetmaker: I suppose that missing cargos from refit cost callbacks is not intended then :P
17:34:02  <planetmaker> I guess not. Though there might be a default, so that some may be missing
17:34:33  <planetmaker> though... default probably is "don't allow"
17:38:30  <Terkhen> for example, FICR was missing from the bulk wagon refit callbacks, which means that it is considered as a "dirty" cargo
17:38:49  <Terkhen> but it is also missing from the main callback, so I guess that you won't be able to switch from FICR to other cargos
17:38:52  <planetmaker> ah  well :-)
17:39:17  <planetmaker> yes, it should be there, I think
17:40:11  <Terkhen> since I already made a complete list of supported cargos I'll also review which ones are missing while I'm implementing it for ogfx-rv :)
17:40:35  <planetmaker> :-) wonderful
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17:53:05  <Terkhen> I think that I'll install linux first though :)
18:08:54  <planetmaker> biab
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20:27:19  <planetmaker> hm... Yexo around?
20:40:51  <planetmaker> what can I do possibly wrong?
20:40:55  <planetmaker> with a result of...
20:42:26  <planetmaker> using
20:42:27  <Webster> Title: Imagebin - A place to slap up your images. (at
21:05:19  <planetmaker> this statue NewGRF is not a lucky thing it seems, Zuu :-( My NML result is funky (see above) and my NFO result compiles already for more than 10 minutes on those three sprites...
21:06:42  <Zuu> Ok
21:07:19  <Zuu> Feel free to drop it if it gets too much work for something that was ment as a fun thing. :-)
21:08:21  <planetmaker> Well. It *should* be a 100% easy thing. And that neither NewGRF language gives me a result I like bothers me...
21:08:45  <planetmaker> ... less for the grf than the principle it demonstrates
21:09:33  <planetmaker> the only thing I could do simpler is not add  the zoom sprites (which are the whole purpose, though)
21:12:46  <Zuu> Unfortunately I can't be much of help when it comes to NewGRF coding :-)
21:19:02  <planetmaker> maybe I'm just subject to advanced blindness and stupidity...
21:20:25  <planetmaker> yep, indeed
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21:23:01  <planetmaker> it tremendously helps to not mix 2x and 4x zoom mid-line
21:31:54  <planetmaker> there we go, Zuu ;-)
21:34:38  <planetmaker> Xotic750: wrt tenders I talked earlier with Terkhen and V453000. I guess as usual the solution is... parameter :-P
21:35:07  <planetmaker> And we need really the shorter, old times cargo wagons
21:35:28  <Xotic750> Ok, so it would be just enable or disable tenders
21:35:49  <Xotic750> and have them articulated
21:35:58  <planetmaker> I think so, yes. At least for now.
21:36:15  <planetmaker> I'll start adding that
21:36:37  <Xotic750> I have created the templates for 1/2 size wagons, they just need bodies and cargoes now
21:36:40  <planetmaker> btw, is there the issue with the mask files meanwhile solved (I didn't do anything yet)?
21:37:03  <Xotic750> I haven't been able to fix it
21:37:32  <Xotic750> but running through a render session at the moment after all the recent blender updates
21:37:38  <planetmaker> :-)
21:38:02  <Xotic750> is it worth doing 3/4 length wagons too?
21:38:34  <planetmaker> Might be interesting
21:38:57  <Brot6> Script Communication Protocol - Revision 20:fe401e8999d7: Add: function to ease safe reading of data... (Zuu) @
21:39:14  <planetmaker> But first the first generation wagons, as available from 1850 or so
21:39:36  <planetmaker> we might then still add a 2nd generation from 1900 ... 1950 or so with 6/8 length
21:40:45  <Xotic750> so, you would want 1/2 length for the very early and then 6/8 length for the mid and full half tile for the modern
21:40:54  <Xotic750> rather than 3/4 length
21:40:55  <Zuu> planetmaker: planetmaker That is a nice easter egg. Requiring to zoom in at maximum to see the names :-)
21:41:46  <planetmaker> :-)
21:42:50  <Xotic750> :P
21:45:26  <Xotic750> I assume you've seen the tender then?
21:45:29  <planetmaker> Xotic750: the tender looks very nice. Could it say 'OpenTTD' instead of 'OTTD'?
21:46:05  <planetmaker> Or maybe 'OpenGFX' (or another) :-P
21:46:23  <Xotic750> It could but it would be very small and not noticeable once scaled
21:46:37  <Xotic750> I'll see what we can do
21:46:39  <planetmaker> what size do you show in the forum?
21:46:54  <Xotic750> that is 4x full zoom
21:47:04  <planetmaker> I don't consider that small at all then
21:47:31  <Xotic750> in other words 400% bigger than 4x zoom in game
21:47:34  <planetmaker> ofc it won't be readable in 1x zoom
21:47:39  <planetmaker> oh, that way
21:47:41  <planetmaker> :-)
21:47:58  <Xotic750> yep
21:48:24  <Xotic750> my avatar is the proper 4x in game zoom
21:48:29  <planetmaker> why don't you show the 'real' size? After all I can easily zoom-in with the OS here
21:48:48  <Xotic750> so you can see from that that 4468 is unreadable on the train itself
21:48:50  <planetmaker> 4x 4x gives people maybe a bit false impression
21:49:09  <Xotic750> they are the raw images that then get scaled down
21:49:33  <Xotic750> to compensate for the lack of antialiasing
21:49:40  <planetmaker> ah, I see
21:50:29  <Xotic750> I have got ant-aliasing working now and I did render direct at 4x in game zoom, but the images don't come out as good as the downscaling process
21:51:40  <planetmaker> then you should keep using the down-scaling :-)
21:52:17  <Xotic750> yeah, it's just the problem with people downloading the repo
21:52:52  <Xotic750> there is an article,
21:52:53  <Webster> Title: Tutorial: Making Isometric Sprites out of 3d models with Blender (at
21:53:13  <Xotic750> that demonstrates the downscaling vs anti-aliasing process if you care to read :)
21:54:13  <Xotic750> that guy found that 1000% bigger then downscale was best, I tried with 800% and that was also better, but the images get huge :)
21:54:30  <Xotic750> so I opted for 400%, still giving reasonable results
21:55:44  <planetmaker> hm, but the too-big sprites need not be in the repo, do they? Just the blender model and the finished sprites?
21:56:37  <planetmaker> after all those images are just an output of blender and can be re-created
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21:56:45  <Xotic750> the main reason for them being there is if you change the post-processing
21:57:05  <Xotic750> when trying to get better results, like with the mask changes I made recently
21:57:39  <Xotic750> ok, I have the originals here, but if you wanted to do something then you would have to render the models first before you could work on it
21:58:05  <planetmaker> How long does that take?
21:58:29  <planetmaker> (one model on your machine)
21:58:35  <Xotic750> a current render run for me here is taking about 3.5 days or so, continuous
21:58:54  <planetmaker> that's all models and includes post-processing?
21:58:59  <Xotic750> per model is about 40-50 mins
21:59:32  <Xotic750> on my slow machine :)
21:59:56  <planetmaker> well. Mine probably is not terribly fast either ;-) Does it include post-processing?
22:00:00  <Xotic750> but yeah, that's everything, render and post
22:00:13  <planetmaker> how much is just render? (or just post-processing)?
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22:00:31  <Xotic750> it's about 50/50
22:00:43  <Xotic750> so say 20 mins render 20 mins post
22:00:58  <planetmaker> I see
22:01:26  <Xotic750> yeah, it's a real arse when you make a small change and want to see the result :)
22:01:33  <planetmaker> :-)
22:01:46  <planetmaker> Have you ever built opengfx from scratch?
22:02:01  <Xotic750> nope, I downloaded it but not built
22:02:08  <planetmaker> i.e. make maintainer-clean && make
22:02:27  <planetmaker> that also takes about 30 minutes on my machine
22:02:37  <planetmaker> and that's only 1x 8bpp ;-)
22:02:45  <Xotic750> takes about that for ogfx-trains on mine too :)
22:03:14  <planetmaker> let's see how long it takes here.... time make
22:06:28  <Xotic750> I need to figure out the new offsets for 1/2 length vehicles too
22:07:57  <Xotic750> I assume that even the early passenger wagons will be a full half tile and it is only cargos that ill be 1/2 model length
22:09:49  <planetmaker> I think we should go for 1/2 length also for pax and mail and valuables
22:10:18  <planetmaker> thus same length for all cargos including pax for the early wagons
22:16:00  <Xotic750> will be fun trying to make passenger wagons in 1/2 length :P
22:16:13  <planetmaker> :-) Cargo won't be easier
22:16:35  <Xotic750> cargo should be the easier, no windows :)
22:16:38  <planetmaker> I think they really should look differently.... Like with an open walk between wagons or so
22:17:21  <Xotic750> I'll see what I can come up with
22:19:33  <planetmaker> <-- I have that in mind
22:19:41  <planetmaker> though that's a narrow gauge, but still
22:20:50  <Xotic750> that would be easy in full half tile, But I think really difficult in 1/2 that size
22:21:14  <planetmaker> well. Those wagons are much shorter than normal ones ;-) Just a few metres long
22:22:13  <Xotic750> I'll give it a try but they may look ridiculous :)
22:22:56  <Xotic750> 3/4 would be a safer bet
22:23:44  <Xotic750> if you look at the a4 tender and think how a passenger wagon would look in that size
22:27:02  <Xotic750> I really got to go now though, bed and GF calling :) g'night
22:27:20  <planetmaker> same here. Have a good night
22:27:46  <planetmaker> I shall reserve tomorrow time implementing tenders partially
22:28:04  <planetmaker> I have somewhere an 8bpp tender from DanMacK which we could probably use, too
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22:43:18  <planetmaker> good night
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