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00:12:53 <Brot6> World Airliners Set - Feature #4309 (New): Check And Remove All PNGs From Repo XBeardie27X @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/4309 00:14:38 <Brot6> World Airliners Set - Revision 1143:e27fce8a15fb: Coded and Finished Thai A380-800 - Close #4289 XBeardie27X @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/worldairlinersset/repository/revisions/e27fce8a15fb 00:14:38 <Brot6> World Airliners Set - Feature #4289 (Closed): Create A380-800 Thai Airways Repaint XBeardie27X @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/4289#change-11761 00:14:58 <Brot6> worldairlinersset: update from r1142 to r1143 done - http://bundles.openttdcoop.org/worldairlinersset/push/r1143 00:19:10 *** Frankr has quit IRC 00:36:02 <Brot6> World Airliners Set - Revision 1144:8a1c0478d11f: Started China Southern PNG, Added It To Repo - Fea... XBeardie27X @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/worldairlinersset/repository/revisions/8a1c0478d11f 00:36:10 *** Beardie has quit IRC 00:36:26 <Brot6> worldairlinersset: update from r1143 to r1144 done - http://bundles.openttdcoop.org/worldairlinersset/push/r1144 05:00:46 *** Brot6 is now known as Guest121 05:01:03 *** Brot6 has joined #openttdcoop.devzone 05:02:08 *** Brot6 has quit IRC 05:02:24 *** Brot6 has joined #openttdcoop.devzone 05:02:38 *** Guest121 has quit IRC 07:14:56 *** Zuu has joined #openttdcoop.devzone 08:23:45 *** Zuu has quit IRC 09:45:57 *** Frank has joined #openttdcoop.devzone 09:47:15 *** Frank has left #openttdcoop.devzone 09:48:00 *** Frank-BTPRO has joined #openttdcoop.devzone 10:35:32 *** Frank-BTPRO has quit IRC 10:35:59 <Brot6> Dutch Trains 2 - Feature #3952: Additional steam engines XVoyager1X @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/3952#change-11765 10:57:01 *** ODM has joined #openttdcoop.devzone 11:42:18 <Brot6> Makefile for NewGRFs: Common part - Revision 20:d81af2814dbd: Codechange: Split the usage of md5sum ... XplanetmakerX @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/make-nml-common/repository/revisions/d81af2814dbd 11:51:14 <Ammler> isn't md5sum kind of obsoleted :-P 11:55:49 <Ammler> marcel@xps:~/hg/basecosts> md5sum basecosts.grf 11:55:50 <Ammler> ca3f93ccfb722d479d9f3991a9bf51ca basecosts.grf 11:55:52 <Ammler> marcel@xps:~/hg/basecosts> grfid -m basecosts.grf 11:55:53 <Ammler> ca3f93ccfb722d479d9f3991a9bf51ca 11:57:20 <Ammler> you can use grfid -m for all files, so you have the better crossplatrom tool with it 11:58:11 <Ammler> marcel@xps:~/hg/basecosts> grfid -m .hgtags 11:58:13 <Ammler> d79bcd3c1cfb3c91e681028cc583eadb 11:59:09 <Ammler> I add grfcodec to the build requirements of nml 12:00:24 <planetmaker> Ammler, it's obsolete for the md5sum within openttd. yes. But not for comparing the build results. There it actually is even better to use, as it includes the actual sprites 12:00:52 <planetmaker> thus both, grfid and md5sum are of use. In different places :-) 12:01:31 <planetmaker> btw, I'm just trying to come up with a configure script for newgrfs. There's so much detection needed to be done every time... no need to do that every time 12:01:40 <Brot6> DevZone Help Center - Revision 165:b4581ded939b: [Compiler] Change: add grfcodec for grfid -m XAmmlerX @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/home/repository/revisions/b4581ded939b 12:02:10 <planetmaker> of course that has no impact on the CF. It builds everything from scratch. But might help the developers to build a bit quicker even 12:02:55 <Ammler> planetmaker: you could also do a kind of Makefile.cache 12:03:12 *** Yexo- is now known as Yexo 12:04:46 <Ammler> the main (or only) purpose of configure is to detect make, isn't? 12:05:12 <planetmaker> No. Also wether we have all programmes which we need an their paths 12:05:23 <planetmaker> and configuring flags, depending on OS etc 12:05:30 <Ammler> why can't that be done with Makefile? 12:06:25 <planetmaker> it can. it is done 12:06:35 <planetmaker> but then it needs be done for *every* run 12:06:39 <planetmaker> which is kinda stupid 12:06:54 <planetmaker> as said: no difference for the CF. But big difference locally when building it very often 12:07:00 <planetmaker> where these things do not change 12:07:07 <Ammler> [14:02] <Ammler> planetmaker: you could also do a kind of Makefile.cache 12:07:46 <planetmaker> where's the difference except that a Makefile.cache is more complex to implement? 12:07:52 <Ammler> instead configure Makefile.in > Makefile 12:08:13 <planetmaker> ? 12:08:31 <Ammler> well, you have it already... 12:09:10 <planetmaker> I do everything currently in the Makefile. I store some stuff in Makefile.dep... 12:09:22 <Ammler> that's what I meant 12:09:28 <planetmaker> but ./configure && make && make install is the usual way, isn't it? 12:10:02 <planetmaker> and I could do like if [ -n Makefile.conf ]; then ./configure; make -c -f Makefile; fi 12:10:40 <Ammler> well, if you use configure, you should do it to generate the Makefile 12:10:48 <planetmaker> which still means, it's done once and never again unless asked 12:11:16 <Ammler> if you use it to make a Makefile.conf, then I see no reason not to use Makefile to do it 12:11:51 <Ammler> your Makefile.conf was my idea of Makefile.cache :-) 12:13:20 <Ammler> ./configure && make && make install <-- not common 12:13:29 <planetmaker> but indeed ./configure could directly create the Makefile. Actually that might be really good... and would agains shave off quite some issues 12:14:05 <planetmaker> what do you think is common? 12:14:11 <Ammler> the idea bout those commands is to run those in single steps, e.q. 12:14:32 <Ammler> and make install is usually run as other user (root) 12:14:51 <Ammler> or in a special buildroot 12:15:13 <planetmaker> well, yes. maybe sudo make install. So what. 12:15:36 <Ammler> yep, but the point is you run those in single steps 12:16:58 <Ammler> I just think, you need an advantage with adding ./configure 12:17:00 <Ammler> I see none 12:17:28 <Ammler> as you will change the buildsystem of a lot projects :-) 12:17:56 <Ammler> same issue as you reuse obsolete targets 12:19:06 <Ammler> also it is another command you need to document 12:20:19 <Ammler> Rubidium: why does openttd have a ./configure script? 12:20:22 <planetmaker> the advantage is the speed. And the greater flexibility and modularity one will gain with ./configure creating the Makefile 12:20:41 <Ammler> planetmaker: what can configure do what Makefile can't? 12:21:05 <Ammler> I mean the first command in the Makefile could be running such a script 12:21:13 <planetmaker> configure can write the Makefile 12:21:57 <Ammler> I guess using configure is something historical 12:21:58 <planetmaker> configure is run once. And its results then can be used without any subsequent check at all. Thus you have a speed gain 12:22:10 <Ammler> oh well 12:22:18 <planetmaker> thus any kind of complex config can be done there. And re-used thousands of times 12:22:52 <Ammler> you need one check, "if not exist Makefile.cache, create Makefile.cache" 12:23:14 <planetmaker> then create it. And check for Makefile.cache. And what about all the conditional inclusion of stuff? 12:23:35 <planetmaker> which I currently have in Makefile? All those literally dozens of checks? I can just skip them, if I write it directly 12:24:27 <Ammler> planetmaker: but why can't you writhe those via Makefile? 12:24:31 <Ammler> that I do not see 12:24:57 <Ammler> it is like you write the Makefile.dep 12:25:25 <Ammler> you move all those checks to a script, which writes the Makefile.cache 12:28:45 <Ammler> also I think, you will earn a benefit less as generating one image 12:29:07 <planetmaker> ? 12:29:23 <Ammler> you would make it safe build time, right 12:29:38 <planetmaker> I still don't understand 12:29:38 <Ammler> those checks are done < 1s 12:30:01 <Ammler> the checks which needs time don't profit 12:30:10 <planetmaker> like? 12:30:19 <Ammler> dependency checks 12:30:33 <Ammler> building one png with gimp 12:30:58 <Ammler> those things still need around 10 secs 12:33:42 <Ammler> planetmaker: the output of "make test" could be such a Makefile.conf 12:34:06 <Ammler> - version things 12:34:32 <planetmaker> part of it 12:35:29 <Ammler> well, try to find something, which you aren't able to make 12:36:21 <Ammler> I assume, ./configure comes from a time, where make was much less featurerich 12:36:31 <Ammler> like not capable to run shell 12:37:28 <Ammler> why not running ./configure via make? 12:43:27 <planetmaker> you know... openttd does that. there's a make reconfigure 12:47:51 <Ammler> planetmaker: maybe you should check autoconf 12:48:19 <planetmaker> it's a large dependency 12:50:17 <Ammler> ah, not to use with it, just you get to understand configure 13:07:46 <planetmaker> Ammler, using ./configure && make saves about 3 seconds here over just make on the simplest example newgrf: http://paste.openttdcoop.org/show/1751/ 13:07:57 <planetmaker> which is a gain of 33% or 50% however you look 13:08:22 <Ammler> planetmaker: yep, and now explain why you can't do that with make? 13:09:16 <Ammler> like you self suggested Makefile.conf 13:10:27 <Ammler> also not sure, if those 3 secs are woth the trouble you will get :-) 13:10:43 <Ammler> could you paste the configure 13:12:08 <planetmaker> http://paste.openttdcoop.org/show/1753/ and Makefile.in is http://paste.openttdcoop.org/show/1754/ 13:14:20 <Ammler> [15:08] <Ammler> planetmaker: yep, and now explain why you can't do that with make? <-- are you able to answer this? 13:15:01 <Ammler> planetmaker: also be aware that you test it with a grf, which has no build time 13:15:22 <Ammler> compare the benefit with opengfx :-P 13:15:36 <planetmaker> compare that with the average build time of newgrfs 13:15:42 <Ammler> or that 13:15:44 <planetmaker> 3s is 10% or so 13:15:50 <Ammler> so nothing 13:16:08 <planetmaker> nothing? You call 10% nothing? 13:16:09 <Ammler> you need document ./configure 13:16:16 <Ammler> nobody will thank you 13:16:18 <planetmaker> Then please make other suggestions 13:16:46 <Ammler> optimize dependency check 13:16:50 <Ammler> optimize gimp 13:16:57 <Ammler> optimize whatever :-P 13:17:10 <planetmaker> yes. The dep check CAN be optimized by a decent configure 13:17:18 <planetmaker> But not without 13:17:26 <planetmaker> which is one of the points 13:17:40 <planetmaker> a decent configure can limit greatly the things which need checking 13:17:41 <Ammler> anyway, I still don't see why this can't be done via make 13:18:12 <planetmaker> good. I add a make configure target which calls ($shell ./configure). And then? 13:18:26 <Ammler> then you would at least not to need to document a new command 13:18:52 <Ammler> (but a new target :-P) 13:19:26 <Ammler> but more important, the build scripts would still work 13:19:59 <Ammler> planetmaker: as you suggested, you make a Makefile.conf 13:20:23 <Ammler> (I called it Makefile.cache, but meant the same) 13:20:24 <planetmaker> I don't see a big issue with changing the CF's build script to check for configure when authors greatly profit from such change 13:21:44 <Ammler> it's not about the devzone 13:22:01 <Ammler> it's about an additional command without benefit 13:22:38 <Ammler> as you still aren't able why it needs a configure, instead simply an addtional target 13:22:50 <Ammler> to explain* 13:25:17 <Ammler> commit it, I might be able to show you via patch what I mean 13:25:33 <Ammler> I am quite confused, you don't see it 13:28:10 <Ammler> hmm, split the parts in Makefile.in, which someone needs to edit and those which are replaced by configure 13:28:14 <Ammler> maybe you see it then 13:29:23 <planetmaker> Ammler, what I do NOT see is how I can convince make to not run the reconfigure then everytime or not to fail when it needs creation in the first place 13:29:49 <planetmaker> other than adding Makefile_cache to EVERY single frigging target. which also slows it 13:29:54 <Ammler> that's the point 13:30:03 <planetmaker> with YOUR approach! 13:30:46 <Ammler> you don't configure Makefile.in -> Makefile, you include Makefile.cache in Makefile which will be maked if not exist 13:30:48 <planetmaker> I'll be pleased if you show me the solution you advocate 13:31:01 <planetmaker> I am NOT able to make it work that way. I tried for years 13:31:36 <Ammler> any why? 13:32:22 <Ammler> I miss something, but I don't know what :-) 13:32:57 <planetmaker> http://paste.openttdcoop.org/show/1755/ <-- here. Basically what you advocate. Try. Make it work 13:33:07 <planetmaker> make-nml is the test project 13:34:09 <planetmaker> you'll of course also need its sub-project with the makefile parts be present 13:35:02 <planetmaker> http://paste.openttdcoop.org/show/1756/ now also including the configure script I forgot to add 13:35:22 <Ammler> I think, what I menat is basically your configure aproach, just with CONFIGFILE="Makefile.conf" 13:36:06 <planetmaker> yes. That's the patch I just posted. Try. Make it work 13:36:18 <Ammler> and the existing Makefile is around a oneline, check for makefile.conf, if not exist run configure 13:36:34 <planetmaker> all good advise. Please make it work 13:36:39 <Ammler> and then include makefile.conf 13:36:43 <planetmaker> all good advise. Please make it work 13:37:50 <planetmaker> adding Makefile_cache to every target *might* work. But is also quite ugly 13:40:11 <Ammler> so there is no possiblity to run a target? 13:40:36 <Ammler> it would work with "make Makefile_cache all" 13:41:48 <Ammler> (assuming, could you paste a patch, which I could apply to the repo? 13:42:41 <Ammler> or push the previous version 13:44:16 <planetmaker> do you have the make-nml and its sub-repo in build-common? 13:45:00 <Ammler> changeset: 16:52bd202a29c0 13:45:10 <planetmaker> that's what I have, too. And the sub-repo? 13:45:21 <planetmaker> maybe you need to update that manually. not sure 13:50:28 <planetmaker> http://devs.openttd.org/~planetmaker/patches/add_using_makefile_cache.diff maybe that works better 13:51:46 <Ammler> 403 13:51:54 <Ammler> oh, I see 13:52:05 <Ammler> you have added configure and Makefile.in to the last patch 13:52:14 <Ammler> I added those file manually :-P 13:53:29 <planetmaker> 403 should be solved 13:54:19 <Ammler> ah, but you didn't add configure 13:57:04 <planetmaker> [15:35] <planetmaker> http://paste.openttdcoop.org/show/1756/ now also including the configure script I forgot to add 14:04:58 <Ammler> so basically you can't include something which doesn't exist? 14:05:41 <Ammler> (doesn't exist before you run make) 14:06:25 <Ammler> hmm 14:09:36 *** Zuu has joined #openttdcoop.devzone 14:09:40 <Ammler> well, I have other issues here 14:09:50 <Ammler> /bin/sh: nml: : command not found 14:11:19 *** Zuu_ has joined #openttdcoop.devzone 14:15:24 <planetmaker> there is the conditional include: 14:15:31 <planetmaker> -include Makefile.conditional 14:15:53 <planetmaker> I get the same with gimp 14:16:56 <planetmaker> and I don't quite know where that now comes from 14:17:10 <planetmaker> probably from the not yet included Makefile_cache 14:18:25 *** Zuu has quit IRC 14:30:42 <Rubidium> Ammler: because we need to generate multiple Makefiles for the more tricky architectures 14:30:57 <Rubidium> e.g. for fat binaries (OS X) 14:33:30 <Rubidium> we also used to have only a makefile, but the configure solved many issues with that 14:49:40 <Ammler> Rubidium: I basically wondered, what does configure what make can't 14:54:08 <Rubidium> is that a trick question? 14:54:29 <Rubidium> it's like asking what does nml that nfo can't 14:54:32 <Ammler> yeah, I guess there is nothing, it is just easier 14:58:47 <planetmaker> yes.... and a configure script works much easier in this respect - starting from a certain complexity, it seems 15:18:27 <Ammler> well, the only issue is that make all isn't default anymore 15:19:03 <Ammler> make all 15:19:06 <Ammler> works fine 15:21:37 <Ammler> http://paste.openttdcoop.org/show/1757/ 15:24:30 *** LordAro has joined #openttdcoop.devzone 15:29:11 <Ammler> planetmaker: we have hg 2.3.1 on the server 15:29:21 <Ammler> can we now push kind of drafts? 15:30:16 <planetmaker> we could 15:30:51 <Ammler> could?, what's the issue? 15:35:10 *** frosch123 has joined #openttdcoop.devzone 15:57:29 <planetmaker> @logs 15:57:30 <Webster> #openttdcoop IRC webstuff - IRC Log Viewer - http://webster.openttdcoop.org/ 15:58:31 <planetmaker> well. If an old clients pulls and pushes, everything is changed from draft to published 15:59:47 <planetmaker> but I'll like to test that first. How it behaves with mutable and unmutable history etc. 15:59:57 <planetmaker> and possibly the obsolence properties 16:00:27 <planetmaker> as especially that in conjunction with draft becomes interesting. It will replace mq 16:01:06 * Rubidium doesn't have 2.3.1, so I reckon everyone using Debian stable in the next 2-3 years doesn't either 16:03:03 <planetmaker> yep, likely they'll be stuck with 2.2 16:03:45 <planetmaker> but also 2.2 already knows about phases, thus draft + published (+ secret) 16:13:30 <Ammler> planetmaker: just wanted to get you informed that the redmine update also included a hg update :-) 16:13:41 <Ammler> I think, I forgot that 16:13:54 <planetmaker> thanks, I didn't know indeed 16:14:58 <Ammler> does this phases also mean, you could remote strip changes? 16:15:17 <Ammler> or just that you hide changes on the server? 16:15:38 <Ammler> we mainly would need to test if redmine would fetch those changes 16:15:42 <planetmaker> draft changes: yes 16:15:59 <Ammler> (it shouldn't) 16:16:04 <planetmaker> in conjunction with the evolve extension 16:17:17 <planetmaker> the changes are marked as obsolete. Thus they're not really gone. But not ever shown 16:17:34 <Ammler> fine enough 16:18:09 <Ammler> it would make the not-so-liked strip obsolete :-) 16:19:44 <planetmaker> that's the intention 16:19:54 <planetmaker> explicitly stated by the developers 16:23:29 <planetmaker> http://hg-lab.logilab.org/doc/mutable-history/html/ 16:23:30 <Webster> Title: Safe Mutable History Obsolete experimentation (at hg-lab.logilab.org) 16:26:50 <Brot6> zBase - Revision 173:a5854e83a1ee: Add: Maglev engines. XzephyrisX @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/zbase/repository/revisions/a5854e83a1ee 16:26:50 <Brot6> zBase - Revision 174:117b6855a770: Add: Temperate electric trains. XzephyrisX @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/zbase/repository/revisions/117b6855a770 16:26:50 <Brot6> zBase - Revision 175:15fd460c1b64: Add: Candyfloss forest. XzephyrisX @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/zbase/repository/revisions/15fd460c1b64 16:26:50 <Brot6> zBase - Revision 176:6914950ca182: Add: Bubble generator and bubbles. XzephyrisX @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/zbase/repository/revisions/6914950ca182 16:26:52 <Brot6> zBase - Revision 177:eb602b72e434: Add: Sugar mine. XzephyrisX @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/zbase/repository/revisions/eb602b72e434 16:26:55 <Brot6> zBase - Revision 178:65890386fd6d: Merge XzephyrisX @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/zbase/repository/revisions/65890386fd6d 16:34:16 <planetmaker> o_O spriting spree 16:37:58 <Terkhen> nice :D 17:06:59 *** Alberth has joined #openttdcoop.devzone 17:18:32 <Brot6> worldairlinersset: update from r1139 to r1144 done - http://bundles.openttdcoop.org/worldairlinersset/nightlies/r1144 17:49:49 *** andythenorth has joined #openttdcoop.devzone 18:03:44 <Alberth> My review of an empty line seems to have thrown everybody off course :p 18:40:37 <Brot6> Dutch Trains 2 - Feature #3952: Additional steam engines XVoyager1X @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/3952#change-11767 19:40:58 <Brot6> Tutorial - Revision 58:04335c383d45: Version 9. (sorry for not commiting it until now) XZuuX @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/gs-tutorial/repository/revisions/04335c383d45 20:06:44 <Brot6> NewGRF Meta Language - Feature Request #4311 (New): Use more unique language file names XAlberthX @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/4311 20:36:42 *** Alberth has left #openttdcoop.devzone 21:00:56 *** Beardie has joined #openttdcoop.devzone 21:05:50 *** andythenorth has left #openttdcoop.devzone 21:07:16 <Brot6> zBase - Revision 179:815712b6af37: Add: New roof texture for factory and mask-based mask sprite gene... XzephyrisX @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/zbase/repository/revisions/815712b6af37 21:10:28 *** Frankr has joined #openttdcoop.devzone 21:24:31 *** frosch123 has quit IRC 21:39:15 *** ODM has quit IRC 22:05:25 <Brot6> zBase - Revision 180:07691a8283f6: Fix (r179): Change all "m2" to "m" mask files, change ImageJ scri... XzephyrisX @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/zbase/repository/revisions/07691a8283f6 22:05:25 <Brot6> zBase - Revision 181:42acd949150a: Add: More comments on the masking script, now works from both "m"... XzephyrisX @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/zbase/repository/revisions/42acd949150a 22:07:53 *** LordAro has quit IRC 22:18:16 <Brot6> zBase - Revision 182:27a151760d84: Update: Oil refinery CC textures. XzephyrisX @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/zbase/repository/revisions/27a151760d84 22:32:46 *** Zuu_ has quit IRC 22:55:37 <Brot6> zBase - Revision 183:91bcdeb994a8: Backed out changeset: 27a151760d84 XzephyrisX @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/zbase/repository/revisions/91bcdeb994a8 22:55:37 <Brot6> zBase - Revision 184:9bcecf816c36: Fix (r182): Mended some mixed up textures. XzephyrisX @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/zbase/repository/revisions/9bcecf816c36 22:55:37 <Brot6> zBase - Revision 185:b863d11693ee: Update: Steel mill CC textures. XzephyrisX @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/zbase/repository/revisions/b863d11693ee 22:55:37 <Brot6> zBase - Revision 186:1318cd27fd8e: Update: Arctic industry CC textures. XzephyrisX @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/zbase/repository/revisions/1318cd27fd8e 22:55:39 <Brot6> zBase - Revision 187:845f3ffbd57f: Fix (r186): Missed new mask render files. XzephyrisX @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/zbase/repository/revisions/845f3ffbd57f 22:55:42 <Brot6> zBase - Revision 188:382fc0658282: Update: Tropic industry CC textures. XzephyrisX @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/zbase/repository/revisions/382fc0658282 23:33:28 <Brot6> zBase - Revision 189:1434ddaaa48f: Update: Glass and tarmac textures, airport CC textures. XzephyrisX @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/zbase/repository/revisions/1434ddaaa48f