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00:27:49 *** Zuu has quit IRC 04:15:08 <Brot6> Silicon Valley - Feature Request #4925 (New): Make it work with ECS! XIronFistX @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/4925 07:01:35 *** andythenorth has joined #openttdcoop.devzone 07:02:12 *** andythenorth has left #openttdcoop.devzone 07:34:53 <Brot6> FISH - same_or_not.png XandythenorthX @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/attachments/download/3764/same_or_not.png 07:43:23 <Brot6> FISH - same_or_not_2.png XandythenorthX @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/attachments/download/3767/same_or_not_2.png 08:25:30 *** Alberth has joined #openttdcoop.devzone 08:47:08 *** Supercheese has quit IRC 10:27:25 *** mib_iwwqhy has joined #openttdcoop.devzone 11:03:32 <Brot6> Webtranslator - Revision 13:9b52c813e1d9: Codechange: Introduce a function for getting the base lang... XAlberthX @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/eints/repository/revisions/9b52c813e1d9 11:03:32 <Brot6> Webtranslator - Revision 14:556ac2d9f958: Add: Display the list of strings of a translation, fixes i... XAlberthX @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/eints/repository/revisions/556ac2d9f958 11:42:22 <Brot6> Industrial Stations Renewal - Bug #4928 (New): blue sprite when build next to existing station XGeorgeX @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/4928 14:52:26 <Brot6> FISH - squid.pdf XandythenorthX @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/attachments/download/3773/squid.pdf 15:08:14 <Brot6> Webtranslator - Revision 15:fb4500a9c221: Add: Link to string pages, fix project name in translation... XAlberthX @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/eints/repository/revisions/fb4500a9c221 15:08:15 <Brot6> Webtranslator - Revision 16:341b1f080b19: Add: String edit page. XAlberthX @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/eints/repository/revisions/341b1f080b19 15:08:53 <Alberth> http://devs.openttd.org/~alberth/srif_translate.png we're getting to the juicy bits :) 15:09:40 <Alberth> unfortunately, I am somewhat out of inspiration 15:24:29 *** KenjiE20 has quit IRC 15:25:29 *** KenjiE20 has joined #openttdcoop.devzone 15:46:08 <Rubidium> oh... WT4? 16:21:46 <Alberth> for newgrfs only currently 16:22:21 <Alberth> and no doubt I do a zillion things wrong in this version :) 17:50:18 *** frosch123 has joined #openttdcoop.devzone 17:52:36 <Alberth> quak 17:52:48 <frosch123> moin :) 17:59:58 *** LordAro has joined #openttdcoop.devzone 18:20:02 <Brot6> Silicon Valley - Feature Request #4925: Make it work with ECS! XfroschX @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/4925#change-13268 18:22:04 <Alberth> that gives very big challenges :) 18:22:44 <frosch123> we played it with firs :) 18:23:25 <Alberth> Is that more difficult, I'd say ECS is more difficult than FIRS 18:24:02 <Alberth> all the slow increase in production, and the messing with stockpiling :) 18:24:20 <frosch123> well, you can reduce the goal amounts :p 18:24:34 <frosch123> but anyway, i have no idea about ecs 18:25:39 <Alberth> I also never played it fully, at some point the industry gave up on me, and it was my only source of income, I gave up too :) 18:26:16 <Alberth> too much micro management for me 18:30:06 <Alberth> hmm, maybe it works better if I give textarea a name :p 18:30:15 <planetmaker> moin 18:30:37 <Alberth> planetmaker: hi! 18:31:57 <Alberth> if you have some time, I could use a bit of eints input from you 18:32:26 <planetmaker> sure, what's it? 18:32:41 <Alberth> (04:22:47 PM) Alberth: http://devs.openttd.org/~alberth/srif_translate.png we're getting to the juicy bits :) 18:32:41 <Alberth> (04:23:34 PM) Alberth: unfortunately, I am somewhat out of inspiration 18:33:50 <Alberth> nowadays the text is in textarea, so you can edit it, but I am quite clueless what you actually would like to have 18:34:52 <planetmaker> you mean, like I should be able to fill in the 3rd column of that table when translating, right? And wonder about how to present that to the translators? 18:35:09 <Alberth> yep 18:35:33 <Alberth> and one page before is also a puzzle, let me make a little picture of that too 18:37:20 <Alberth> http://devs.openttd.org/~alberth/srif_langoverview.png ie at the moment it is basically the same info, except for all strings 18:37:28 <Alberth> that feels very wrong :p 18:38:16 <planetmaker> wrt translating cases (1st view you provided): 18:38:36 <planetmaker> First line: English original 18:39:14 <planetmaker> 2nd line(s): case selector | text area with current translation for the selected case 18:39:27 <planetmaker> following lines (1 per case): status | case | text 18:39:55 <Alberth> you don't want to be able to edit them all ? 18:39:59 <planetmaker> possibly the first line should be lines so that the full text shows 18:40:14 <planetmaker> Alberth, yes, I can edit them all. By selecting in the edit line another case 18:40:26 <planetmaker> And I have a brief overview below 18:40:32 <planetmaker> compressed to one line per case 18:40:45 <planetmaker> i.e. truncated texts possibly for lengthy ones 18:41:40 <Alberth> http://devs.openttd.org/~alberth/srif_translate_all.png 18:42:35 <planetmaker> yes... that might probably be even the preferred solution for people with big screens 18:42:42 <planetmaker> I can edit everything right in place 18:43:17 <planetmaker> not sure how well it works on small screens. 18:44:00 <Alberth> not sure I want to solve that problem now :) 18:44:01 <planetmaker> Hence my suggestion to only have the base string top. Then followed by a single editable area along with the case selector to choose the case being translated. And trailing all cases shown (which might be truncated by the screen bottom on small ones) 18:44:37 <planetmaker> Or do you see a problem with http://devs.openttd.org/~alberth/srif_translate_all.png which I didn't yet see? 18:46:00 <Alberth> unlikely, my main drive is to get some useful functionality 18:46:42 <Alberth> I have no good ideas about theUI, actually 18:47:34 <Alberth> One problem I see with your idea is that I currently don't know how to implement such a thing 18:49:39 <planetmaker> well, I'd not mind too much, if I had to scroll through a list to be able to edit them, I guess. Or where a click on a string would move the display such that it jumps to it becoming the one in the edit area 18:49:55 <planetmaker> Not sure about implementation problems in the least tbh. 18:50:04 <planetmaker> what's the issue you see with how I suggested it? 18:50:22 <planetmaker> http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?p=1065805#p1065805 <-- totally different, Alberth: s/Apply/Apple/ 18:50:23 <Webster> Title: Transport Tycoon Forums View topic - Won't launch on Mac, gatekeeper blocks OpenTTD app (at www.tt-forums.net) 18:50:46 <Alberth> after you select a case, I guess you want to have the current value 18:51:08 <planetmaker> yes, that's right 18:51:13 <Alberth> but selection does not trigger a 'submit' of the form, I think 18:51:47 <planetmaker> also right... Hm... so you miss the 'submit' step in my concept. Kinda rightfully 18:52:13 <planetmaker> a 'submit' button next to the single strings? 18:52:23 <planetmaker> and a 'submit all' below? 18:52:26 <Alberth> thanks for noticing the apple thing :) 18:53:37 <Alberth> you can add a button 'load string' or so next to the case select, it looks solvable with some effort 18:53:37 <planetmaker> In that case it actually could work similar for the complete list of strings. 18:53:53 <planetmaker> why can't it load it automatically? 18:54:16 <planetmaker> a separate need for 'load string' sounds like... totally unacceptable hassle 18:54:39 <planetmaker> as it would require *select string *select case *load string... 18:54:45 <Alberth> a sumbit button labeled with the 'case' than :p 18:54:49 <planetmaker> which could be one click from a users POV 18:55:40 <planetmaker> it would be nice, if I could simply press 'submit all' after I edited wildly within the translation without re-confirming every single one 18:55:53 <planetmaker> not sure it would need a review step between 18:55:53 <Alberth> To put it simple, http://www.w3.org/TR/REC-html40/interact/forms.html doesn't say it can be done 18:55:54 <Webster> Title: Forms in HTML documents (at www.w3.org) 18:56:18 <Alberth> so I assume you'd need javascript or so 18:56:46 <planetmaker> hm, yes... unless selection of a different string means 'auto-commit'. Which might be unwanted, too :S 18:57:23 <Alberth> well, yeah, that's another thing that pops up with one textarea 18:58:48 <planetmaker> ok, let's keep it simple w/o javascript, right? 18:59:03 <Alberth> yep 18:59:14 <Alberth> unless you want to script java :) 18:59:36 <planetmaker> not sure. Would be UI anyway "only". 18:59:49 <planetmaker> And we first want a working backend, I think 19:00:07 <Alberth> that's in quite good shape 19:00:15 <planetmaker> hm, ok 19:00:31 <Alberth> you can throw in complete language files, and it says "ok" :) 19:00:48 <planetmaker> http://devs.openttd.org/~alberth/srif_langoverview.png wastes much too much screen real estate with null info 19:01:11 <Alberth> I agree fully 19:01:17 <planetmaker> the string name could be much smaller (but maybe still the same colour as there). Below, indented the English. And then the edit box(es) you show 19:01:31 <planetmaker> thus three normal lines per string 19:01:37 <Alberth> but I made it before the string screens, and have no idea what to put there 19:02:03 <Alberth> the idea is some sort of state of a language 19:02:14 <Alberth> at least, that sounds useful 19:02:52 <planetmaker> Alberth, a quick overview might be good: status | string name 19:02:55 <planetmaker> nothing else 19:03:03 <planetmaker> allows for easy updates of languages 19:03:19 <planetmaker> though... I presume one can filter for that, ... so not needed. hm. 19:03:55 <Alberth> go back one more screen? :) 19:05:56 <Alberth> http://devs.openttd.org/~alberth/srif_project_overview.png the text under the table means nothing, I just didn't remove it yet 19:14:17 <planetmaker> hm... right. But that page doesn't tell me which strings in nl_NL need taking care of. I need to be able to only deal with those which need my attention. And ignore the ready-translated strings of my language 19:17:50 <Alberth> indeed, it needs a bit of design from a user perspective 19:18:47 <planetmaker> in current openttd translator, the thing I do 99% of the time: 19:18:58 <planetmaker> "show strings needing translation / validation" 19:19:26 <planetmaker> and then go through each of them, translate and commit it. Continue with next until done. That's it 19:19:46 *** Supercheese has joined #openttdcoop.devzone 19:19:55 <planetmaker> WT3 automatically jumps to the next string needing attention when I commit the current active one 19:20:07 <planetmaker> that's quite convenient 19:20:33 <Alberth> how does that compare to my output? http://bundles.openttdcoop.org/firs/nightlies/LATEST/translations/dutch.html 19:22:01 <planetmaker> can I edit each string in that view? 19:22:42 <Alberth> I doubt you'd want that, tbh 19:22:57 <planetmaker> why? Those are the strings which I need to edit 19:23:23 <planetmaker> in WT3 I get presented basically one string at a time with English, current translation and a submit button. 19:23:42 <planetmaker> there's also an abbreviated list or "related" strings shown... 19:24:00 <Alberth> with 5-10 strings it's fine, but what about 100 strings to translate? 19:24:06 <planetmaker> related = STR_XXX matches somewhat, or English text does. Or translated text does 19:24:25 <Alberth> I saw that, seems pretty useful :) 19:24:32 <planetmaker> Yes... might be difficult. Thus a single string view with "submit" and then the next is presented automatically 19:25:08 <planetmaker> Supercheese, wrt CanRail: spritesets look good from what I saw 19:26:04 <Supercheese> :) 19:26:05 <planetmaker> Alberth, and one-by-one is not bad, if it automatically presents you the next string to edit after a 'submit'. 19:26:16 <Supercheese> Any more sprites from DanMacK? 19:26:40 <planetmaker> I'm not sure... I think it doesn't include all from his ancient canrail tt-forums page, right? 19:26:59 <planetmaker> http://users.tt-forums.net/danmack/CansetSprite.html <-- from there 19:27:12 <Supercheese> Right, those 19:27:15 <planetmaker> it has more than are committed to the repo. Or did I check to briefly? 19:27:19 <Alberth> well, it limits the choice of in which order you want to translate, but for a first solution it's not so bad 19:27:25 <Supercheese> Yeah, that page appears to have more 19:27:40 <planetmaker> Alberth, I usually don't care too much about the order. Or rather... never ;-) 19:27:43 <Alberth> getta catch them all :) 19:27:56 <planetmaker> It only makes sense for related strings. And there just showing them helps 19:28:08 <Alberth> good point :) 19:28:33 <Supercheese> I guess if I want to have this newfangled Newgrf-webtranslator stuff, I should setup my projects on the devzone, huh... 19:28:41 <planetmaker> of course that's subjective, but that's how I work as translator :-) 19:29:13 <Alberth> Supercheese: paying me a million euros works too :) 19:29:29 * Supercheese has zero Euros 19:29:37 <Supercheese> Although currency conversion is trivial these days 19:29:46 <Alberth> but you're just a tad early, it is not working yet :) 19:30:29 <Supercheese> Well, you seem to be doing an excellent job, I'm preparing for the wave of the future :) 19:31:16 <Alberth> making it *look* useful is not so difficult :) 19:32:17 <Alberth> ok, thanks for the input planetmaker 19:35:02 <planetmaker> no problem, my pleasure, Alberth. Always again :-) 21:40:56 *** frosch123 has quit IRC 22:18:51 <planetmaker> g'night 22:24:33 *** Alberth has left #openttdcoop.devzone 22:30:33 *** Zuu has joined #openttdcoop.devzone 22:54:36 *** Rubidium_ has joined #openttdcoop.devzone 22:56:33 *** Rubidium has quit IRC 22:57:03 *** SmatZ has quit IRC 22:57:18 *** SmatZ has joined #openttdcoop.devzone 23:06:16 *** LordAro has quit IRC