Log for #openttdcoop.devzone on 2nd June 2013:
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07:19:50  <Brot6> Industrial Stations Renewal - Revision 187:8136298ad123: Update: Improve German translation (thanks ... Xmart3pX @
08:01:46  <Brot6> Industrial Stations Renewal - Revision 188:4d3aad5ddf02: Cleanup: Remove parameter defaults set by a... Xmart3pX @
08:25:39  <Brot6> xussrset: update from r965 to r967 done (4 warnings) -
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09:08:26  <Alberth> hi hi
09:08:37  <planetmaker> V453000, the file with the road tunnels, you don't by chance have a version where the road is in a separate layer?
09:08:39  <planetmaker> quak
09:08:50  <frosch123> moin
10:45:28  <Brot6> OpenGFX+ Landscape - Feature Request #5750 (Closed): Supply inner city roads XplanetmakerX @
10:46:37  <Brot6> OpenGFX+ Landscape - Bug #3334 (Closed): gridless sprites missing for level crossings XplanetmakerX @
10:53:30  <planetmaker> which reminds me... I wanted to give Alberth a version of ogfx-landscape with slightly changed rails
10:53:58  <Alberth> :)
10:54:53  <Alberth> 13:00 and not a letter program code written yet, and it looks like it won't happen either :)
10:55:03  <planetmaker> I do believe that it was a good idea to fill the holes in the track underlay
10:55:28  <planetmaker> :D
10:55:35  <planetmaker> uploading file
10:55:58  <planetmaker> hm... grids don't work there :S
10:56:13  <planetmaker> more work there ahead, thus
10:56:30  <planetmaker>
10:57:40  <planetmaker> one word of warning with these custom-built versions by myself, Alberth: they might be (much) newer than even future DevZone nightlies or official releases
10:57:55  <planetmaker> My hg numeric versions are off by quite a bit due to heavy use of evolve & friends
10:58:07  <Alberth> oke :)
10:58:37  <planetmaker> thus use newgrf_show_old_versions or delete them when not needed any longer to keep the more official ones accessible
10:59:07  <Alberth> In Eints, I just use a time stamp + sequence number as version
10:59:16  <planetmaker> my r253 corresponds to devzone r209
10:59:54  <Alberth> make 40 dummy commits :p
11:00:08  <Alberth> oh, 50 even :)
11:00:11  <planetmaker> they'd show, here, too :-)
11:00:20  <planetmaker> only fresh clone can remedy that
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11:00:32  <Alberth> hmm, beaten by the system ;p
11:00:55  <planetmaker> ^ no. I use the system in the version where it explicity says to not use it the way I do :-)
11:01:43  <planetmaker> maybe I should change the versioning to 20130601X as version
11:01:48  <planetmaker> date + sequential number
11:02:02  <Alberth> system is smart, it protects itself from planetmakers :p
11:02:07  <planetmaker> :D
11:02:24  <planetmaker> it worked fine. Till I started to use evolve ;-) (and stopped using mq :-P )
11:02:56  <Alberth> yeah, mostly, because git has no sane version where you can easily decide which one is earlier and which one is later
11:03:22  <planetmaker> yeah. that's the number I use in hg. But it's not a global number. But local
11:03:25  <planetmaker> local sequence
11:03:49  <planetmaker> I don't use git, though ;-)
11:05:00  <planetmaker> after all, each tag has logged the (globally consistant) commit time. So that's where it could be derived from
11:05:38  <Alberth> I thought about rejecting git-based newgrfs, but in the end, it was much easier to just not support any version control system
11:06:15  <planetmaker> oh, in eints? (I was somehow thinking of freerct for a time)
11:06:44  <Alberth> freerct has svn, much more consistent :p
11:08:02  <planetmaker> not sure whether hg can do (yet). But it would even be nice, if it would allow for "registered" people to pull draft phase. And for all other clients and those not supporting phases only public phase
11:08:12  <Alberth> you can attach a label to a time stamp, I think, but I doubt you can actually insert text in the label other than by editing the xml file :p
11:08:15  <planetmaker> that would allow DevZone to also share not-yet-ready-to-publish draft revisions
11:09:00  <Alberth> bitbucket and github use cloning for that
11:09:09  <Alberth> and pull requests
11:09:45  <planetmaker> sure, but I think that can be complimentary
11:11:00  <planetmaker> I sometimes wonder actually whether it wouldn't be good for OpenTTD to change to a DVCS. To allow people issuing pull requests, too
11:11:22  <Alberth> not sure it sohluld have limited access. In svn you have /branches where you make a full copy of /trunk, and start hacking
11:11:54  <Alberth> just the distinction /trunk and /branches/<topic>  is enough imho for understanding the difference
11:12:39  <planetmaker> svn branches are not used anymore at all in OpenTTD really
11:12:44  <planetmaker> except for release branches
11:13:33  <planetmaker> but ... I lost you somewhat already at "not sure it should have limited access..."
11:13:54  <Alberth> you wanted restricted access to draft stuff
11:14:34  <planetmaker> yeah, well. I have often clones of the projects here, on my laptop. And sometimes even at a 3rd machine
11:14:51  <planetmaker> would be convenient to sync those. without making those changes official
11:15:02  <planetmaker> I'd actually not mind sharing those. But it should not be pulled by default
11:15:09  <planetmaker> that's the point of the phases after all
11:15:27  <planetmaker> draft revisions are not set in stone. And may change. Or vanish completely
11:15:38  <Alberth> oh, that's what phases are for?  I didn't know that
11:16:00  <planetmaker> there's secret (local to you only), draft (mutable) and public (unmutable)
11:16:11  <planetmaker> it's an indicator of whether it may change
11:16:35  <Alberth> ah, right
11:16:48  <planetmaker> secret of course is also mutable
11:17:24  <planetmaker> thus draft is supposed to replace mq which you share
11:17:33  <planetmaker> somewhat
11:18:29  <planetmaker> <-- the matix there explains it imho well
11:18:30  <Webster> Title: Phases - Mercurial (at
11:20:07  <Alberth> yeah, it makes sense; they are trying to stop you from deleting stuff that may have leaked out :)
11:20:26  <Alberth> or at least warn :)
11:20:38  <planetmaker> yeah. you can after all forcably change phases again
11:20:52  <planetmaker> but... as you said
11:21:39  <planetmaker> and I'm actually very pleased with using evolve & friends. Easier patch queue maintenance than with mq.
11:23:54  <planetmaker> only "backdraw" is that I sometimes try to push... but everything I did is still in secret changesets, thus not pushed ;-)
11:24:05  <planetmaker> but it's a good saveguard
11:25:43  <Alberth> I tried it once on a small patch, but was not really understanding what I was doing
11:26:07  <planetmaker> do you have glog extension enabled?
11:26:23  <planetmaker> it helps sometimes with understanding of what you do / should do.
11:26:39  <planetmaker> showing the branching of your repo
11:27:27  <Alberth> I have "thg" for that
11:27:51  <Alberth> tortoisehg-2.6.2-2.fc18.noarch
11:28:07  <planetmaker> I use too much command line...
11:28:31  <planetmaker> (with a custom log template)
11:28:41  <Alberth> it's nice, you can click at a commit, and see the changes
11:28:53  <planetmaker> yes, I use it sometimes, too.
11:28:59  <Alberth> it also has annotated browsing
11:29:55  <Alberth> I guess I need more practice with evolve
11:30:49  <planetmaker> I agree, it needs a bit getting used to
11:31:47  <planetmaker> evolve basically is a shortcut to rebase a (usually secret or draft) changeset or set of changesets to head
11:32:23  <planetmaker> mostly tip. Like after you pulled in new (public) changes, you evolve your private changesets to head
11:32:36  <planetmaker> it often is very intelligent about that
11:32:58  <Alberth> I never used rebase either
11:33:16  <planetmaker> how do you update a patch against a newer rev?
11:33:51  <Alberth> hg qpop -a ; hg pull -u; hg qpush -a
11:34:02  <Alberth> :)
11:34:31  <planetmaker> that fails (much) more often than hg evolve. Due to the lack of knowledge of the commit history
11:35:39  <planetmaker> hg pull; hg evolve -a
11:36:15  <planetmaker> (no -u to keep at current rev with private patches)
11:36:30  <planetmaker> actually the first patched rev
11:45:09  <planetmaker> hm... seems hg evolve and hg blame don't always like eachother. Or rather that hg blame does not yet deal with obsolete changesets completely accurately
11:46:46  <Alberth> :)
11:50:01  <Brot6> Finnish Trainset - Feature #5900 (New): Tve1 and Tve3 switcher locomotives Xkyosuke1989X @
11:50:54  <Brot6> Finnish Trainset - Feature #5900 (New): Tve1 and Tve3 switcher locomotives Xkyosuke1989X @
12:04:09  <Brot6> OpenGFX+ Landscape - Revision 210:83a0fba19ab9: Fix: Grids were drawn on full snow in arctic climate... XplanetmakerX @
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14:00:19  <Alberth> planetmaker: much better, you missed 2 pixels though   (not a problem imho)
14:04:19  <planetmaker> oh, indeed. I shall look nevertheless and add it with the next update to the source file
14:04:51  <planetmaker> (the source file updates is the main reason I use patch queues. submitting a new version for one pixel, but submitting 3M for that... is meh)
14:11:28  <Alberth> that's why I collect comment fixes in a separate repo :)
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14:48:06  <planetmaker> Alberth, yes... but I can't do that when I actually develop / work on the graphics. I need the new graphics file to see whether it works. And subsequent patches may use changes / additions then. And only when I added a few, I commit. But it means I need to refresh the first patch, the graphics source file, from time to time when making those changes
14:49:35  <Alberth> well, basically, version control systems suck for big binary blobs of data
14:50:06  <Alberth> ie you should be able to express "I changed 2 pixels" :)
14:55:20  <Rubidium> if you would use uncompressed files, those 2 pixel changes could be stored more efficiently ;)
14:55:33  <planetmaker> yeah :-)
17:19:10  <Brot6> xussrset: update from r961 to r967 done (4 warnings) -
17:46:45  <Brot6> ogfx-landscape: update from r209 to r210 done -
17:47:10  <Brot6> isr: update from r186 to r188 done -
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18:41:44  <Alberth> o/
18:43:25  <andythenorth> o/
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20:11:52  <Brot6> FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Revision 3656:370607a59189: Change: adjust Hotel fund cost and pax p... XandythenorthX @
20:13:35  <Brot6> firs: update from r3654 to r3656 done (30 warnings) -
20:37:34  <Brot6> Industrial Stations Renewal - Revision 189:89c236b3322d: Update: Add new strings to Dutch translatio... Xmart3pX @
20:58:31  <Brot6> xussrset: update from r967 to r968 done (4 warnings) -
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21:11:03  <Brot6> OpenGFX+ Landscape - Bug #5741: Supply rail tunnel sprites XplanetmakerX @
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