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Log for #openttdcoop.devzone on 7th September 2013:
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08:39:49  <DevZone> Yippie, build fixed!
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08:39:49  <DevZone> Project HEQS Heavy Equipment Set build #2-nightlies: FIXED in 24 sec: https://jenkins.openttdcoop.org/job/heqs/2/
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08:40:27  <DevZone> Yippie, build fixed!
08:40:28  <DevZone> Project Debug Vehicles build #2-nightlies: FIXED in 21 sec: https://jenkins.openttdcoop.org/job/debugveh/2/
08:45:28  <DevZone> Yippie, build fixed!
08:45:28  <DevZone> Project Nutracks build #2-nightlies: FIXED in 15 sec: https://jenkins.openttdcoop.org/job/nutracks/2/
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09:16:10  <DevZone> Project eints-test (Actual template) build #109-push: SUCCESS in 4 min 56 sec: https://jenkins.openttdcoop.org/job/eints-test/109/
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10:06:33  <DevZone> Project Basecost presets build #2-nightlies: STILL FAILING in 0.77 sec: https://jenkins.openttdcoop.org/job/basecosts-presets/2/
10:06:40  <DevZone> Project Basecosts build #2-nightlies: STILL FAILING in 0.88 sec: https://jenkins.openttdcoop.org/job/basecosts/2/
10:07:05  <DevZone> Project Basecost presets build #3-nightlies: STILL FAILING in 0.79 sec: https://jenkins.openttdcoop.org/job/basecosts-presets/3/
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10:07:57  <Alberth> o/
10:08:33  <frosch123> moin
10:13:13  <^Spike^> ellow
10:13:24  <planetmaker> hi
10:14:45  <frosch123> planetmaker: your announcement message looked fine btw
10:14:56  <frosch123> we just need to figure out why xussr failed :p
10:15:04  <planetmaker> failed?
10:15:23  <frosch123> yes, the automatic upload of the base language failed
10:15:28  <planetmaker> ah, you mean... no base lang. yes
10:15:33  <frosch123> eints gave the script a 404 somewhere in the middle
10:15:44  <planetmaker> hm
10:15:49  <frosch123> but i have no idea why
10:15:58  <frosch123> i could try to reproduce it
10:16:06  <frosch123> if we have bad luck it will just work
10:16:18  <frosch123> but otherwise we need better debug output
10:16:39  <planetmaker> then first let's see whether we had bad luck?
10:16:46  <frosch123> ok :p
10:17:08  <planetmaker> well :-P
10:18:25  <frosch123> let's see what happens in two minutes :p
10:18:56  <planetmaker> :-)
10:19:09  <DevZone> Project OpenGFX+ BigGUI build #6-push: SUCCESS in 22 sec: https://jenkins.openttdcoop.org/job/ogfx-biggui/6/
10:20:37  <planetmaker> it's sad actually... andy's engineered NewGRFs generate lang files. Thus don't support the translator ;-)
10:20:40  <planetmaker> like FISH
10:22:06  <frosch123> anyway, xussr still fails :)
10:22:15  <frosch123> le'ts print what url lang_sync actually tries to access
10:25:27  <Alberth> upload language file probably :)
10:25:46  <Alberth> how does fish do translations? they are generated too ?
10:28:19  <planetmaker> Alberth, no clue :-)
10:28:20  <frosch123> http://translator.openttdcoop.org/upload/xussrset <- anything wrong with that url?
10:28:46  <planetmaker> I can't access it though
10:28:46  <Alberth> language name?
10:28:57  <frosch123> it should be base language
10:29:02  <frosch123> should it be part of the url?
10:29:56  <planetmaker> actually, in xussrset the base language could actually be Russian
10:30:05  <planetmaker> But then... very hard to translate for folks like me
10:30:22  <frosch123> there is no different baselang configured
10:30:27  <planetmaker> I know
10:30:29  <frosch123> so, it should try english
10:30:35  <planetmaker> yep
10:30:36  <frosch123> or is the english lang fiel invalid?
10:31:03  <Alberth> url brings you to the language selection page, so that would be ok
10:31:26  <planetmaker> let me quickly build
10:32:38  <planetmaker> there seems no nmlc complaint about it
10:36:44  <DevZone> Project ISR Industrial Station Renewal build #2-nightlies: STILL FAILING in 11 sec: https://jenkins.openttdcoop.org/job/isr/2/
10:38:21  <frosch123> hmm, this time it gave 502 :s
10:38:52  <planetmaker> uh
10:39:00  <planetmaker> that doesn't bode well
10:39:52  <Alberth> The file that you uploaded contains errors:   <-- xussr base language upload
10:39:52  <Alberth> Error: File not completely read
10:39:53  <Alberth> Error at line 995: Line not recognized
10:39:53  <Alberth> Please fix your errors first.
10:40:07  <Alberth> 100KB upload limit?
10:40:31  <DevZone> Project Finnish Rail Infrastructure build #14-push: FAILURE in 9.7 sec: https://jenkins.openttdcoop.org/job/friss/14/
10:40:35  <frosch123> yes, if there is such a limit :pö
10:40:43  <Alberth> there is :)
10:40:57  <frosch123> ok, adding a 0
10:41:12  <planetmaker> yeah... russian.lng is 180k
10:41:18  <planetmaker> english.lng 113k
10:42:56  <juzza1> planetmaker: how do i add newest make-nml to my project? i just copied everything from that repo to ours, it builds fine locally, but not so on jenkins
10:43:08  <Rubidium> is there significantly less whitespace in those files compared to openttd? In openttd it's only 30% instead of 50%
10:43:09  <frosch123> well, still 502
10:43:35  <Rubidium> (the english/russian file size delta that is)
10:43:37  <planetmaker> juzza1, which project?
10:44:11  <planetmaker> friss?
10:44:28  <oskari89> Yep
10:44:30  <Brot6> Revision 23:618463cddca5: Change: [Makefile] Update to make-nml 0.4.3 XplanetmakerX @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/ogfx-biggui/repository/revisions/618463cddca5
10:44:30  <Brot6> Revision 24:eec0bdd8e933: Add: Support for eints translation manager XplanetmakerX @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/ogfx-biggui/repository/revisions/eec0bdd8e933
10:44:30  <Brot6> Revision 49:8243a19d924e: Fix: Old names to lowercase, fix name conventions Xjuzza1X @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/friss/repository/revisions/8243a19d924e
10:44:30  <Brot6> Revision 50:5a4ce239cfef: Merge Xjuzza1X @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/friss/repository/revisions/5a4ce239cfef
10:44:40  <planetmaker> 10:40:30 friss.pnml:56:41: fatal error: src/objects/pm_CTC_tower.pnml: No such file or directory
10:44:54  <planetmaker> always check build logs first ;-)
10:45:00  <planetmaker> you forgot to add files
10:46:34  <oskari89> No, that was because of lowercase conversion
10:46:43  <oskari89> But easy to fix, though :)
10:46:50  <planetmaker> :-)
10:48:26  <juzza1> hmm yeah, my bad
10:49:26  <DevZone> Yippie, build fixed!
10:49:26  <DevZone> Project Finnish Rail Infrastructure build #15-push: FIXED in 25 sec: https://jenkins.openttdcoop.org/job/friss/15/
10:49:39  <juzza1> :)
10:49:44  <frosch123> planetmaker: ^Spike^: Alberth: btw. i just changed the rights configuration for eints
10:49:44  <planetmaker> :-)
10:49:58  <frosch123> unauthenticated users (no login) now have full read access to everything
10:50:08  <planetmaker> ah, ok. That makes sense
10:50:22  <frosch123> i can disable it for language download if crawlers cause trouble
10:50:52  <^Spike^> robots.txt?
10:51:19  <frosch123> according to tb certain crawlers ignore those :p
10:51:34  <^Spike^> true... :)
10:51:39  <^Spike^> depending on the crawler...
10:51:47  <^Spike^> mostly malicious crawlers ignore that :D
10:51:50  <frosch123> ottd banned a certain url range from redmond
10:53:14  <frosch123> planetmaker: can you ammend your annoucement post wrt. annonymous read access
10:53:28  <planetmaker> yup. I actually should make that announcement now. Will do
10:55:48  <frosch123> xussr worked now, 502 vanished
10:56:06  <frosch123> 203 invalid string?
10:56:41  <planetmaker> for russian? quite likely
10:56:44  <planetmaker> for English? hm
10:56:56  <frosch123> no "russian"
10:57:10  <frosch123> 203 invalid for russian
10:57:12  <planetmaker> yeah, then the English is not up to date for the Russian :D
10:57:31  <planetmaker> I really wonder how sensible a Russian base lang would be
10:57:35  <planetmaker> we could make it so
10:57:40  <planetmaker> but... I could not translate it really
10:57:51  <planetmaker> and I wonder how many others could
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10:58:51  <Rubidium> but... why is it invalid in the first case?
10:59:03  <frosch123> well, it's a more useful baselang if you translate to ukrainian and such
10:59:14  <Rubidium> it looks like the colour codes differ
10:59:33  <Rubidium> the number of newlines is the same
10:59:36  <planetmaker> yes... they can't yet be outdated
10:59:49  <Rubidium> and the number of real commands in both is 0
10:59:50  <planetmaker> and differ in {commands}. Thus... invalid
11:00:49  <planetmaker> http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=26&t=68604
11:00:50  <Webster> Title: Transport Tycoon Forums View topic - NewGRF Translator (at www.tt-forums.net)
11:01:13  <Rubidium> differing colour codes can easily be valid
11:01:30  <Rubidium> especially if the translator needs to reorder things
11:01:51  <Rubidium> (are you going to count the RTL commands as well?)
11:02:41  <Alberth> eints is extremely paranoid about differences between commands
11:02:53  <Alberth> likely that needs a reconsideration
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11:04:21  <^Spike^> i did edit that wiki article a bit btw
11:04:28  <^Spike^> aka removing the internal part...
11:04:32  <Rubidium> STR_SOME_STRING    :{COMMA} items cost {CURRENCY}
11:04:35  <Rubidium> STR_SOME_STRING    ;{1:CURRENCY} is de prijs van {0:COMMA} items.
11:04:49  <Rubidium> does it see that as invalid (barring the semi colon)
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11:04:55  <planetmaker> ^Spike^, and... where is that part now?
11:05:41  <^Spike^> trying to think of a place
11:05:53  <^Spike^> a public article we link to is not supposed to have internal information about sql servers
11:05:58  <Rubidium> (or the gender command?)
11:06:14  <^Spike^> it's not like i want to delete it planetmaker
11:08:13  <frosch123> you could keep the reference to the readme.txt on the translator vm
11:08:19  <frosch123> and put everything there
11:08:21  <planetmaker> hm, I'll amend the article a bit with the 3 screenies I posted yesterday in http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=29&t=44018&start=20
11:08:22  <Webster> Title: Transport Tycoon Forums View topic - WebTranslator 3.0 (at www.tt-forums.net)
11:08:29  <^Spike^> true frosch123
11:09:50  <^Spike^> most of it seems already there planetmaker :)
11:09:52  <^Spike^> ehm
11:09:53  <^Spike^> frosch123 :)
11:10:30  <planetmaker> https://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/admin/wiki/Eints for admin parts then
11:11:04  <frosch123> or there :)
11:11:57  <Alberth> Rubidium: it claims it to be invalid http://devs.openttd.org/~alberth/swapped.png   but that is clearly wrong :)
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11:27:48  <Brot6> Bug #6335 (New): Commands with numbers are not handled correctly XAlberthX @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/6335
11:31:01  <Alberth> lol, no project name at all in that message :)
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11:34:20  <^Spike^> we know... :)
11:37:33  <Alberth> good, I was afraid you didn't know what project that was :p
11:39:37  <planetmaker> :D
11:40:33  <^Spike^> it was more: We know Brot6 doesn't seem to get the projectname anymore :D
11:44:36  <Brot6> Revision 51:8ffe61fc9d1f: Fix: pm_ctc lowercase call Xjuzza1X @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/friss/repository/revisions/8ffe61fc9d1f
11:57:07  <Brot6> Feature #6336 (New): Switch: Over 140 km/h does not allow level crossings Xkyosuke1989X @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/6336
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12:16:36  <Brot6> Feature Request #6337 (New): Sorting of projects in directory XfroschX @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/6337
12:26:22  <andythenorth> Alberth: ^ I'll try that now
12:26:43  <Alberth> ok
12:27:15  <Alberth> maybe you should warn frosch123 too :)
12:27:18  <andythenorth> hmm
12:27:22  <andythenorth> how do I make eints start?
12:27:29  <andythenorth> AttributeError: 'Config' object has no attribute 'authentication'
12:27:42  <planetmaker> what, locally?
12:27:46  <andythenorth> yup
12:28:32  <andythenorth> hmm
12:28:39  <andythenorth> projects page is already sorted by p.name
12:29:12  <frosch123> p.desc?
12:29:45  <andythenorth> frosch123: do you have a working eints?
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12:30:01  <Alberth> http://devs.openttd.org/~alberth/extra_files.tar    some extra files
12:30:04  <andythenorth> I want to fix 6337, but it's just changing which attr to use in the lambda sort
12:30:13  <andythenorth> if you wanted to do it...
12:30:15  <frosch123> andythenorth: if you are using the old vm
12:30:19  <frosch123> you need to update config.xml
12:30:47  <Alberth> andythenorth: ^ in that tar are some various files to make eints happy
12:30:48  <andythenorth> Alberth: do they go in eints root?
12:30:54  <Alberth> yes
12:31:15  <Alberth> next to the various *_sample* cousins
12:31:16  <andythenorth> works
12:31:44  <Alberth> the almighty user is who with the same password
12:31:57  <Alberth> but it's project bound, see the projects.dat file
12:32:40  <andythenorth> frosch123: p.human_name
12:32:45  <andythenorth> shall I commit?
12:33:13  <andythenorth> hmm it's lexical sort
12:33:20  <andythenorth> so A, B, C, a, b, c
12:33:24  * andythenorth fixes that
12:33:32  <Alberth> fine by me, I am still digging in the code what goes wrong :)
12:33:47  <andythenorth> bottle needs a --reload method :P
12:33:58  <andythenorth> I have to restart when making changes
12:34:22  <Alberth> only the server :p
12:37:43  <andythenorth> planetmaker: I'm open to suggestions w.r.t FISH
12:37:52  <andythenorth> other sets of mine will use the same framework
12:38:46  <planetmaker> andythenorth, see #openttd :-)
12:39:08  <andythenorth> oops wrong channel :P
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12:44:32  <Brot6> Feature Request #6337 (Closed): Sorting of projects in directory XfroschX @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/6337
12:44:32  <Brot6> Revision 255:5284339b20fa: Change: sort projects in projects page by name alphabetically (closes ... XandythenorthX @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/eints/repository/revisions/5284339b20fa
12:44:32  <Brot6> Feature Request #6337 (Closed): Sorting of projects in directory XandythenorthX @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/6337#change-17272
12:45:39  <andythenorth> one less issue
12:49:09  <planetmaker> :-)
12:52:49  <Alberth> command counting fixed too
12:53:37  <planetmaker> :-)
12:56:11  <Alberth> hmm,  /language  is already taken for the language overview
12:57:16  <frosch123>  /languages :p
12:57:33  <frosch123> or can you distinguish /language from /language/projectname ?
12:58:22  <frosch123> hmm, /languages would be an overview of all languages, not of a single one
12:59:27  <frosch123> rename the current "/language" to "/translation" ? it's specific to both a project and a language
13:00:48  <Alberth> good idea
13:09:38  <planetmaker> hm... there we go: Redmine just needs translator groups... "aadding a user to an existing group, the user inherits all of the group priviliges"
13:09:58  <planetmaker> thus I add the translator groups to the projects I want to have translations by all translators
13:10:13  <planetmaker> then new translators are simply added to th group of the respective translator
13:10:26  <planetmaker> should work yes/no?
13:11:12  <frosch123> we will need to add support to eints for that
13:11:29  <frosch123> anyway, i also like the current method, because it lists all translators on the project page
13:11:52  <planetmaker> yes. But translators really have to sign-up for each project
13:11:53  <frosch123> so i wondered whether you rather want a script to add a translator to your 10 projects
13:12:27  <planetmaker> I want means to say "add user XX as translator for lang YY to all projects who want to take part in central translator management"
13:12:31  <Brot6> Feature #4640: Signalling graphics update and futher developing Xkyosuke1989X @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/4640#change-17273
13:12:49  <frosch123> yeah :)
13:13:35  <frosch123> but i think with default role stuff you will only achieve one group per language
13:13:53  <planetmaker> yes
13:13:55  <frosch123> so, every project manager still has to add all groups of all languages
13:14:05  <planetmaker> yes. But only once
13:14:20  <planetmaker> And then the persons can be added centrally to (and also from) the roles
13:14:32  <planetmaker> for all projects. It's a one-time setup for the project manager for all translations
13:14:38  <planetmaker> than a setup for each user
13:15:32  <frosch123> well, i wonder whether there is a way to make managers give access to a "Central Translators" useer
13:15:46  <frosch123> which would then redirect to your groups for each language
13:16:27  <frosch123> "Central Translation" could even be a redmine project
13:16:38  <planetmaker> true
13:16:41  <frosch123> so you can see all translators who are member there
13:17:03  <DevZone> Yippie, build fixed!
13:17:04  <DevZone> Project Central European Trainset build #2-push: FIXED in 12 min: https://jenkins.openttdcoop.org/job/cets/2/
13:17:13  <planetmaker> that might be a good idea... just another file in .devzone/translations/central
13:17:29  <planetmaker> and if present, eints also accepts people from that project (hard-coded project name)?
13:17:36  <frosch123> no, that won't work
13:17:50  <frosch123> .devzone is used by the scripts, not by the eints authenication
13:17:54  <frosch123> we need something in rights.dat
13:18:15  <frosch123> or actually in redmine.py which authenticates users for a specific language
13:25:20  <frosch123> Alberth: is language_info.py generated in some way?
13:25:55  <Alberth> no, I copied the data from openttd some time ago
13:26:08  <DevZone> Project Iron Horse build #16-push: SUCCESS in 21 sec: https://jenkins.openttdcoop.org/job/iron-horse/16/
13:27:01  <Alberth> iirc I added the revision too
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13:27:12  <frosch123> yes, i am updating it now :)
13:27:45  <planetmaker> hm, maybe it can work revers, frosch123: I add a group per translation. And I add projects there. And users
13:28:43  <frosch123> so both translators and managers have to request membership centrally?
13:29:22  <DevZone> Project Iron Horse build #17-push: SUCCESS in 23 sec: https://jenkins.openttdcoop.org/job/iron-horse/17/
13:29:53  <planetmaker> Well, I think managers can still add that locally, too. They can add those group to their projects
13:29:57  <frosch123> planetmaker: but yes, looks like the right thign
13:30:05  <frosch123> i did not know you could add projects thee
13:30:28  <planetmaker> I'll test it first :-)
13:30:38  <frosch123> hmm, you can define membership for users
13:30:40  <frosch123> but not roles there
13:31:11  <planetmaker> the group would get the role, I guess
13:31:17  <planetmaker> when adding to a project. hm
13:31:47  <frosch123> well, you need roles for translators to specify language
13:32:20  <frosch123> otoh you can give projects roles there :o
13:32:25  <frosch123> that's weird
13:32:39  <planetmaker> the role is a group property
13:33:55  <frosch123> oh, that way around
13:34:07  <planetmaker> I *think* :D
13:34:28  <planetmaker> If it's a project property... then I simply make translation projects :-)
13:34:33  <planetmaker> would be even better
13:34:38  <frosch123> well, you still need one group per language then
13:35:27  <frosch123> planetmaker: i was only confused that you select a group when adding a project via the admin panel
13:35:34  <Alberth> rename pushed
13:35:42  <frosch123> but it acutally means to grant that role to all group memebers for the project
13:36:01  <planetmaker> yes, that's what the description says
13:36:16  <planetmaker> so... is it bad to have that many users per project? Basically all roles as user?
13:37:04  <frosch123> well, it hides credits again
13:37:26  <frosch123> so i still prefer a "Central Translators" project, which lists all of them
13:37:28  <oskari89> I think managers should approve translators :P
13:38:13  <frosch123> oskari89: that already works, but some managers like pm like to grant permission to all translators of present and future at once
13:38:15  <planetmaker> oskari89, if you want to translate, and need approval by 50 people. Is that user-friendly?
13:38:18  <frosch123> without further maintenance
13:38:42  <Brot6> Bug #6338 (New): RhB Ge 2/4 - Sprite-Adjustment XYoshiX @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/6338
13:38:54  <planetmaker> or is it maybe better, if people who want to translate, just need one approval and then get going?
13:38:59  <oskari89> Could manager decide that granting permission?
13:39:11  <planetmaker> besides, how do you think it works with openttd?
13:39:18  <oskari89> *granting permission for all languages?
13:39:26  <frosch123> planetmaker: comparing with ottd is silly
13:39:29  <frosch123> it has only one project
13:39:32  <planetmaker> no. I'm not talking about *all languages*.
13:39:55  <planetmaker> I'm talking about approving one user to translate all projects into Klingonian
13:40:10  <oskari89> Okay :P
13:40:28  <planetmaker> or another user to translate everything into Hindu
13:40:43  <frosch123> but from a project manager pov it means. grant access to everyone who will be approved as klingonian translator by someone else
13:40:55  <planetmaker> yes, that it means
13:41:06  <oskari89> That approvement should be not granted if he cannot produce certain quality :P
13:41:26  <planetmaker> oskari89, so you check the quality of translations for every language which you don't speak?
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13:41:35  <oskari89> No
13:41:45  <planetmaker> ok, how do you decide upon "quality"?
13:42:16  <oskari89> But my own home language has a certain person which wants to change Finnish language strings to "it's own preferences"
13:42:25  <oskari89> I'd like to have control myself on that
13:43:13  <^Spike^> just a strange idea taken from server configs: Set a global group of ppl for translations.. but if project manager wants to pick his own ppl ignore the the global settings
13:43:14  <^Spike^> ?
13:43:33  <oskari89> Yes, should be useful on that
13:43:46  <^Spike^> that way all translations can be done unless a project manager decides otherwise...
13:44:01  <^Spike^> if he wants that then it is his/her choice
13:44:33  <oskari89> Yeah, sounds good
13:44:40  <^Spike^> planetmaker? frosch123?
13:44:43  <planetmaker> ah, meh, screw it. Shall each project person deal with all that himself
13:44:54  <planetmaker> less translations for them, less work for me
13:45:21  <Brot6> Bug #6335 (Closed): Commands with numbers are not handled correctly XAlberthX @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/6335
13:45:21  <Brot6> Revision 256:8dd71b1df22c: Fix: Don't check for equality with empty command place holders. Fixes ... XAlberthX @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/eints/repository/revisions/8dd71b1df22c
13:45:21  <Brot6> Revision 257:dd18856acffb: Change: Move /language to /translation XAlberthX @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/eints/repository/revisions/dd18856acffb
13:45:21  <Brot6> Revision 258:e83f6f0da416: Codechange: Rename the language page python file and view as well. XAlberthX @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/eints/repository/revisions/e83f6f0da416
13:45:25  <Brot6> Bug #6335 (Closed): Commands with numbers are not handled correctly XAlberthX @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/6335#change-17275
13:45:54  <oskari89> Maybe users could have flags on suitable translation languages?
13:46:20  <planetmaker> maybe. maybe. maybe
13:46:33  <Alberth> RM is not so very flexible
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13:46:46  <frosch123> planetmaker: just do a script for yourself, to add people to all ogfx projects :)
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13:46:58  <planetmaker> hmpf.. wrong window again
13:47:00  <frosch123> planetmaker: just do a script for yourself, to add people to all ogfx projects :)
13:47:11  <^Spike^> Alberth that is true and annoying...
13:47:21  <^Spike^> but it's what we gotta work with.. :)
13:47:24  <frosch123> actually maintaining a list of projects who like the central idea
13:47:36  <^Spike^> i also need to find strange solutions to tie it all together :D
13:47:38  <frosch123> and then a script to add a user with a certain role to all thoe projects might be the easiest
13:47:45  <frosch123> no need to change anything in redmine or eints
13:47:48  <^Spike^> and then to realize.... devzone still has to move one more time to it's new actual home
13:47:49  <frosch123> just a sql script
13:47:54  <planetmaker> frosch123, how are the credits more hidden by a central translator group than by adding people everywhere?
13:48:16  <planetmaker> I mean, if I have two for one language I don't know who did it anyway, if eints commits it
13:48:25  <frosch123> there wouldn't be "one" central group
13:48:29  <frosch123> but one for each language
13:48:34  <planetmaker> yes, I mean that
13:48:40  <andythenorth> what's the simplest thing we could do?
13:48:49  <frosch123> andythenorth: keeping the current system
13:48:56  <frosch123> it's better than what was before anyway
13:49:17  <andythenorth> do that then
13:49:18  <oskari89> I'd keep current system
13:49:23  <andythenorth> all other bets are off, we'd don't have a userbase
13:49:26  <andythenorth> therefore no evidence
13:49:41  <andythenorth> I have *no* idea, and I was involved in building the app
13:49:46  <andythenorth> so who else does?
13:50:04  <andythenorth> ;)
13:50:04  <planetmaker> well, don't use it then, oskari89 and manage it all yourself. But I do loath it to click 20 projects "add"
13:50:23  <planetmaker> and translators also ask for "how can I easily translate projects who want it"
13:50:24  <Alberth> hmm, languages are tied to projects, so a language overview which is project agnostic might give some trouble
13:50:38  <planetmaker> I want to give it to them. Without jumping through further loops and hoops
13:50:47  <planetmaker> make them jump, if *you* want. I don't
13:51:05  * andythenorth will just let anyone in
13:51:09  <andythenorth> and they can have edit wars
13:51:11  <andythenorth> I don't care :P
13:51:17  <planetmaker> :-)
13:51:38  <oskari89> It could be an edit war in Finnish Trainset translation case :P
13:51:45  <planetmaker> it usually works very well. Have seen only one or two in all the years here
13:52:05  <andythenorth> oskari89: you refer to alluke?
13:52:08  <andythenorth> I am guessing
13:52:17  <oskari89> You did guess right :D
13:52:19  <planetmaker> frosch123, I'm scared of writing scripts accessing database ;-)
13:52:26  <andythenorth> ok, so FIRS team: don't give alluke access
13:52:42  <andythenorth> he's the actually the person who most recently made me want to quit
13:52:58  <andythenorth> problem solved, no need for code this time
13:53:42  <oskari89> Quite every day "whine whine whine" :P
13:54:04  <planetmaker> how is the problem now solved, andythenorth ?
13:54:20  <andythenorth> oskari's problem is solved
13:54:27  <andythenorth> not the one you are trying to solve afaict
13:54:34  * andythenorth wasn't keeping up with all of it :)
13:56:47  <oskari89> Sometimes some people just gets annoying. :P
13:58:53  * frosch123 wonders whethere that relation is transitive
14:00:33  <planetmaker> #6500
14:00:35  <Alberth> :)
14:00:55  <Alberth> Brot6, issue #6500
14:01:02  <planetmaker> hm... do we want https://github.com/veggiematts/supybot-redmine for webster (instead of brot)?
14:01:03  <frosch123> does not exist
14:01:04  <Webster> Title: veggiematts/supybot-redmine · GitHub (at github.com)
14:01:31  <^Spike^> i don't mind planetmaker it might not be able to show commits/issue updates as far as i could tell :)
14:01:49  <andythenorth> we have a work bot that shows random images in response to command 'trainwreck'
14:01:50  <andythenorth> http://www.railpictures.net/viewphoto.php?id=15526&nseq=11
14:01:51  <Webster> Title: RailPictures.Net Photo: SBD 70?? Seaboard GE C30-7 at Garden City, Georgia by Thomas H. Parker (at www.railpictures.net)
14:01:56  <andythenorth> because some days are bad coding days
14:02:11  <planetmaker> ^Spike^, do we have a supybot plugin for that?
14:02:22  <^Spike^> not that i know
14:02:25  <^Spike^> KenjiE20?
14:02:59  <Alberth> andy, I don't think that was a coding error :p
14:04:06  <^Spike^> issues seems possible with the api planetmaker
14:04:07  <andythenorth> reminds us that when we have a bad day, other people have real mess to clear up :P
14:04:18  <^Spike^> commits is a different story...
14:05:18  <andythenorth> "omfg who committed an obiwan" is not as hard to clean up as this http://www.railpictures.net/viewphoto.php?id=115681&nseq=27
14:05:19  <Webster> Title: RailPictures.Net Photo: BN 8073 Burlington Northern Railroad EMD SD40-2 at Tehachapi, California by Amy Miller (at www.railpictures.net)
14:05:43  <andythenorth> although if we're live in production and broken for 60 customers, it does take some work :P
14:05:58  <KenjiE20> ^Spike^: pulling issue numbers is a supybot plugin iirc
14:06:08  <^Spike^> true... planetmaker linked that
14:06:13  <^Spike^> but was talking about issue updates :D
14:06:35  <KenjiE20> ah, no
14:06:48  <planetmaker> basically nice-to-have is announcements when changes to issues were done or new issues created
14:06:55  <KenjiE20> as I mentioned before, live updates isn't something any supybot plugin available does
14:07:10  <^Spike^> even with the rest api/xml feed not possible?
14:07:29  <andythenorth> we just got a work bot using this http://willie.dftba.net
14:07:30  <Webster> Title: Willie - The Python IRC Bot (at willie.dftba.net)
14:07:34  <andythenorth> dunno if it's good
14:07:47  <KenjiE20> possible, yeah, available, no
14:08:15  <KenjiE20> it'd have to store ALL the issues states though
14:08:20  <^Spike^> :/
14:08:23  <KenjiE20> then re-pull all the open ones, and compare
14:08:34  <KenjiE20> http://www.redmine.org/projects/redmine/wiki/Rest_Issues
14:08:35  <Webster> Title: Rest Issues - Redmine (at www.redmine.org)
14:08:46  <DevZone> Project Iron Horse build #18-push: SUCCESS in 21 sec: https://jenkins.openttdcoop.org/job/iron-horse/18/
14:11:18  <frosch123> Alberth: is there a reason the patterns for project names have a '$' at the end, but no '^' in the beginning?
14:11:45  <Alberth> .match starts looking at the first  character
14:12:37  <Alberth> the other one is .search, which first looks for a nice starting point. I almost never use that one
14:12:49  <frosch123> ok, magic, magic :)
14:12:57  <frosch123> i'll learn more python :)
14:13:05  <frosch123> thanks
14:13:09  <Alberth> yw
14:20:04  <planetmaker> hm, feature-request: As translator I'd like to be able to start a translation :-)
14:20:28  <frosch123> if you have the role, you should be able to
14:20:41  <frosch123> there is a "new translation" button at the top
14:20:45  <frosch123> but you need the permission ofc
14:20:53  <^Spike^> KenjiE20 btw it all seem to be rss feeds though...
14:20:58  <planetmaker> yeah, but err-no-work for me for fake bridges
14:21:14  <frosch123> so, it's no feature request, but a bug report :p
14:21:16  <planetmaker> I added myself as de_DE translator and try to upload a new file
14:21:42  <planetmaker> or start new translation
14:21:58  <frosch123> ah, upload right is restricted
14:23:05  <frosch123> sorry, i have to look at the manual first
14:23:12  <frosch123> i still do not understand rights.dat :)
14:23:34  <planetmaker> :-P
14:24:53  <DevZone> Project Iron Horse build #19-push: SUCCESS in 21 sec: https://jenkins.openttdcoop.org/job/iron-horse/19/
14:25:23  <frosch123> ssh froze again :/
14:25:33  <^Spike^> hmmm
14:25:35  <frosch123> it's always happening on hg pull it looks liek
14:27:58  <frosch123> and it's even more annoying that i need the ouput in this special case
14:28:49  <frosch123> i am not even sure whether it finished
14:30:34  <DevZone> Project Iron Horse build #20-push: SUCCESS in 19 sec: https://jenkins.openttdcoop.org/job/iron-horse/20/
14:32:55  <frosch123> ah, now it understand
14:33:04  <frosch123> it started the stupid interactive vim merger
14:33:14  <frosch123> how do i exit that without console output? :p
14:33:23  <frosch123> i already pressed enter a few times :p
14:33:34  <frosch123> let's kill it
14:34:10  <frosch123> now at least hg status makes sense again
14:34:51  <^Spike^> ....
14:39:43  <Alberth> http://mercurial.selenic.com/wiki/MergeToolConfiguration#Internal_merge_with_conflict_markers
14:39:44  <Webster> Title: MergeToolConfiguration - Mercurial (at mercurial.selenic.com)
14:41:09  <frosch123> planetmaker: can you now start your new translation?
14:41:27  <frosch123> i updated eints, and adjusted the rights.dat
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14:42:07  <planetmaker> hm, no. I wonder whether it's stupid FF caching
14:42:59  <^Spike^> clear cache in options
14:44:10  <planetmaker> nah, I can't upload a file
14:44:47  <Brot6> Revision 259:29015d1ca1fa: Add: Scottish Gaelic XfroschX @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/eints/repository/revisions/29015d1ca1fa
14:44:47  <Brot6> Revision 260:bcee76f5628c: Change: Allow '+' in project names. XfroschX @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/eints/repository/revisions/bcee76f5628c
14:44:47  <Brot6> Revision 261:3a7c8beca981: Add: some more verbosity on errors to lang_sync. XfroschX @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/eints/repository/revisions/3a7c8beca981
14:45:22  <Alberth> I am not convinced a translator should have that powers
14:46:01  <frosch123> Alberth: he already has the role in redmine
14:46:09  <frosch123> so, is authrenicated for the language
14:46:41  <frosch123> i changed OWNER to TRANSLATOR for upload and newlanguage
14:47:38  <Alberth> yeah, you can configure it, I am just not sure it's a good move. But let's find out :)
14:48:21  <planetmaker> Alberth, why should a translator not do that? At least start a new translation of the kind he is authenticated for?
14:48:42  <planetmaker> can't the role be checked and asked which of the applicable roles he wants to start?
14:48:52  <planetmaker> upload might indeed be more tricky as it mass-overwrites stuff
14:49:00  <frosch123> it doesn't
14:49:13  <frosch123> i thought that was the idea of upload
14:49:22  <frosch123> offline translation for translators
14:49:24  <planetmaker> I guess it is, htough
14:49:27  <planetmaker> *though
14:49:54  <Alberth> upload is project interfacing
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14:50:06  <frosch123> eints is configured to keep the last 5 translations of each string
14:50:16  <frosch123> so upload should not revert anything as long as it is not really ancient
14:51:16  <Alberth> the point is that an upload has no base language context
14:51:27  <Alberth> you don't know what it was translated against
14:51:46  <Alberth> iirc there was an issue about this
14:52:15  <planetmaker> wouldn't it validate against the base lang as eints knows it at the moment of upload?
14:52:27  <frosch123> ah, i see the issue
14:52:35  <frosch123> newlanguage already asks for auth
14:52:44  <planetmaker> but you're right, it could inadvertly translate old stuff
14:52:45  <frosch123> but you have not selected a language there yet
14:52:50  <Alberth> http://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/5315   there is, but no new information
14:53:13  <planetmaker> :-)
14:53:34  <planetmaker> ok. But 'new language'?
14:53:41  <planetmaker> as in creating a blank translation?
14:53:50  <planetmaker> with everything missing?
14:54:17  <Alberth> that is quite harmless, if lang_sync and  the commit script picks it up
14:54:22  <frosch123> i don't know how the /newlanguage works
14:54:27  <Alberth> tbh, I don't know
14:54:35  <frosch123> the scripts work, they add files
14:54:37  <planetmaker> Alberth, yes. But... I can't do that as translator right now :-)
14:54:39  <frosch123> (untested)
14:54:45  <frosch123> but i cannot configure rights.dat correctly
14:54:59  <frosch123> it already asked for permission before choosing a language
14:55:04  <frosch123> so the TRANSLATOR role cannot work
14:55:30  <planetmaker> hm, can eints have a list of applicable translations, read the role(s) and offer?
14:56:31  <Alberth> frosch123: there are a few further pages where you post new information including the project
14:56:33  <frosch123> there is no difference between "newlanguage" and "makelanguage" like there is for new projects
14:58:44  <frosch123> planetmaker: so, for now you can only add new languages via the repository
14:58:55  <frosch123> or if you have the "Translation Manager" role
14:58:59  <frosch123> not even Managers can do it :p
14:59:05  <frosch123> unless they give themself the role
14:59:22  <planetmaker> :D
15:03:05  <Brot6> Feature Request #6339 (New): Distinguish /newlanguage and /makelanguage XfroschX @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/6339
15:07:18  <Alberth> ok, we discussed it at April 1st, does this channel have logs?
15:07:26  <frosch123> yes
15:07:43  <frosch123> http://webster.openttdcoop.org/index.php?channel=openttdcoop.devzone&date=1364774400
15:08:41  <Alberth> http://webster.openttdcoop.org/index.php?channel=openttdcoop.devzone&date=1364774400#1364808330  to be precise
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15:14:31  <Brot6> Feature Request #5315: "Upload language file" XAlberthX @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/5315#change-17276
15:47:30  <planetmaker> did we... advertize an e-mail address for the translation tool?
15:48:11  <Alberth> do projects have an email address?
15:48:20  <frosch123> there is eints@openttdcoop.org
15:48:26  <frosch123> but no idea whether it actually exists :p
15:48:41  <frosch123> http://dev.openttdcoop.org/users/2064 <- it's listed there :p
15:48:56  <frosch123> anyway, what's the purpose of an email?
15:49:22  <planetmaker> people want an e-mail address obvious to apply for translations ;-) http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=26&t=68604
15:49:23  <Webster> Title: Transport Tycoon Forums View topic - NewGRF Translator (at www.tt-forums.net)
15:49:25  <frosch123> wouldn't issues rather go to the devzone helpcenter?
15:49:35  <planetmaker> yeah, I thought so, too
15:51:27  <Alberth> http://devs.openttd.org/~alberth/languages.png   something like this (it needs more love though)
15:52:23  <frosch123> https://translator.openttdcoop.org/ <- planetmaker: i think that page needs to be more verbose about how to get access then
15:52:39  <planetmaker> yeah, I agree there, too
15:53:15  <frosch123> Alberth: that will get very long if it lists all projects
15:53:55  <frosch123> just list the languages with iso code and name? and then link to page language/iso-code
15:54:16  <frosch123> which has a table of all projects with "done", "missing", "nivalid" and "start fixing"
15:54:40  <Alberth> sounds good
15:57:41  *** TWerkhov1n is now known as TWerkhoven
15:59:44  <Alberth> time to make some food
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16:05:54  <V453000> guys why am I getting mail from 	 eints@openttdcoop.org :D
16:06:03  <planetmaker> :D
16:06:51  <frosch123> some weird coop magic for unknown mail addresses?
16:13:37  *** zooks has quit IRC
16:23:03  <^Spike^> seems... it got in our catch-all box V which also ends up @ info :)
16:23:28  <V453000> :P
16:41:14  <planetmaker> hm, the group stuff works well.
16:41:20  <planetmaker> with translator assignments
16:42:53  <planetmaker> I've a feature request though for Project Overview of eints: show the langID like nl_NL but also a name, like (Dutch)
16:43:49  <planetmaker> but very low priority :-)
16:46:56  <planetmaker> And with groups people like oscar could decide to not use global group of Finnish translators :D
16:47:11  <frosch123> yeah, groups per language would allow that :p
16:47:19  <frosch123> appoint single translators for languages you know
16:47:24  <frosch123> appoint all for unknown stuff :p
16:47:29  <planetmaker> :-)
16:47:38  <DevZone> Project OpenGFX+ BigGUI build #7-push: SUCCESS in 29 sec: https://jenkins.openttdcoop.org/job/ogfx-biggui/7/
16:48:03  <planetmaker> But I really will make groups... I got the fits when I added UseYourIllusion to all projects which want translations...
16:48:24  <planetmaker> like each adding requires... 5 clickes in totally different places on the screen
16:48:40  <planetmaker> and includes nice scrolling due to amount of languages
16:49:02  <frosch123> we can also make an sql script to add all groups to a project :p
16:49:26  <frosch123> anyway, do the groups actually work? i would expect eints needs to learn about them?
16:50:22  <frosch123> but i see that the project page shows the group members instead of the group
16:50:26  <frosch123> so, that is actually nice :)
16:50:26  <planetmaker> hm... I need to remove myself manager rights to properly test, eh?
16:50:56  <frosch123> eints only cares about "Translation Manager", "Manager" are dummies without rights
16:50:57  <planetmaker> project page shows groups, no?
16:51:17  <frosch123> https://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/eints-test <- it lists pm, not Translator cs_CZ
16:51:18  <planetmaker> where does project show individuals from group?
16:51:32  <planetmaker> ah
16:51:46  <planetmaker> https://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/eints-test/settings I looked there
16:51:51  <frosch123> so, it's clearly better than the current method :)
16:52:00  <planetmaker> but indeed, also I'm listed there
16:52:02  <frosch123> it supports all the current method does
16:52:06  <planetmaker> cool :-)
16:52:10  <planetmaker> then we do it this way
16:52:23  <frosch123> yup, looks nice
16:52:23  <planetmaker> as it requires virtually no setup. Just creating a few groups
16:53:11  <planetmaker> if you click on me, you even see which permissions are by group which directly
16:53:26  <frosch123> yup, just did :p
16:53:28  <planetmaker> (grey vs. black checkboxes)
16:53:29  <planetmaker> :D
16:54:26  <planetmaker> I should un-assigne myself from Africaans and Czech, though :D
16:54:33  <frosch123> hm, so when does redmine update the repositories?
16:54:43  <frosch123> i thought it does when i go to the repo tab
16:54:47  <frosch123> but it doesn't :p
16:55:05  <frosch123> i want to check what eints committed tody
16:55:14  <planetmaker> it sometimes seems to have issues... I know that Ammler could tell us more... not sure
16:55:28  <^Spike^> technically he could...
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16:57:23  <frosch123> hmm, biggui is again that kind of project with a .hgeol file in the project root
16:57:30  <frosch123> but no dev ever using it
16:57:40  <frosch123> so eints converted license/readme eol again :p
16:58:12  <planetmaker> :D
16:58:14  <frosch123> no other changes committed
16:58:21  <frosch123> noone translated today :)
16:58:21  <planetmaker> hm
16:58:24  <planetmaker> I did
16:58:29  <planetmaker> for fake bridges
16:58:48  <frosch123> that does not have push enabled
16:58:50  <planetmaker> hm... probably locally. And failed to add translation
16:58:51  <planetmaker> yeah
16:59:00  <planetmaker> I don't want to do that for him
16:59:33  <frosch123> only swedishrails, biggui, ogfxrv and eints-test
16:59:50  <planetmaker> hm, the other ogfx+ don't have push? :O then I forgot
17:00:18  <frosch123> at least "/tmp/eints/hg# find . -name 'eints2repo'" told me so :p
17:03:06  <oskari89> planetmaker: Did you get my suggestion for Swedish Rails set?
17:03:38  <oskari89> You can use sprites i made for FRISS level crossings, for modification base, if needed :)
17:04:34  <planetmaker> I read it yes. But as I have no sprite artists there's not much I can do. But yeah, if I could take those, maybe :-)
17:05:26  <oskari89> Take those :)
17:05:57  <oskari89> They are currently untemplated but that shouldn't take too long :)
17:06:39  <oskari89> https://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/friss/repository/revisions/4ac30ded7c8a/entry/gfx/level_crossing_overlays.png
17:07:27  <oskari89> For Swedish Crossings, the L.M.Ericcson and Fiskars models could fit the most
17:14:08  <planetmaker> hm :-)
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17:14:52  <planetmaker> oskari89, I wonder though, Irwe, the artist of SER is Swedish, thus I assume he did the right thing [TM]
17:15:31  <planetmaker> frosch123, is the list of languages in eints-test exhausitive?
17:15:46  <planetmaker> hm, I guess not
17:15:48  <oskari89> The level crossing sprites of Swedish Railset are copy-pasted of NuTracks, so they are British.
17:16:03  <frosch123> planetmaker: no, it's those from eints
17:16:08  <frosch123> err, firs
17:16:15  <frosch123> but the redmine role are complete
17:16:24  <planetmaker> oh, yes, stupid me :-)
17:16:50  <frosch123> anyway, if you create those groups...
17:16:58  <frosch123> there is a script to add new translator roles
17:17:02  <frosch123> it should also add these groups :)
17:17:38  <planetmaker> I'm nearly done. And i need them with name :D
17:17:56  <frosch123> name?
17:18:14  <planetmaker> language name
17:18:27  <planetmaker> like "Translator nl_NL (Dutch)"
17:18:41  <planetmaker> so that I don't have to look up which language code is Indonesian
17:19:07  <frosch123> well, that's no reason to not extend the script :p
17:19:13  <planetmaker> :-)
17:19:19  <frosch123> we can also rename the roles, if you like to
17:19:35  <planetmaker> but will eints then know?
17:19:39  <DevZone> Project NML - NewGRF Meta Language build #45-nightlies: SUCCESS in 1 min 7 sec: https://jenkins.openttdcoop.org/job/nml/45/
17:19:50  <frosch123> it's also a config file for eints, which is written manually
17:20:06  <frosch123> it does not assemble the role names automatically
17:20:18  <frosch123> and even if... it knows the real language names
17:21:51  <planetmaker> well... if you have the script... please run it...
17:21:59  <planetmaker> or... is it on eints VM?
17:22:02  <frosch123> sure
17:22:20  <frosch123> but you have to extent it ofc :p
17:22:28  <planetmaker> :-)
17:24:17  <Alberth> planetmaker: http://paste.openttdcoop.org/show/2599/   although frosch added a language I think
17:25:03  <planetmaker> ty
17:26:33  <andythenorth> ho ho
17:26:43  <andythenorth> I should write a script to co-erce the palette on compile
17:26:47  <andythenorth> for working with Dan :D
17:26:52  <Alberth> ie scottish gaelic in r259
17:27:01  <planetmaker> hehe, andythenorth :-)
17:27:23  <andythenorth> could be done
17:27:51  <planetmaker> andythenorth, please make it so that I can use it, too :-)
17:28:07  <andythenorth> we should just make it a flag on nml :P
17:28:11  <andythenorth> nml is already calling PIL
17:28:21  <andythenorth> ship the DOS palette inside nml
17:29:12  <andythenorth> then apply it to any image lacking palette
17:29:35  <planetmaker> andythenorth, that indeed might be an idea.
17:29:47  <planetmaker> if you want, add a compile-time option to NML which does that
17:29:54  <planetmaker> we could then ship that
17:30:09  <andythenorth> I'll see if I can figure out soon
17:30:11  <planetmaker> DOS palette is already shipped in NML (as is windows palette)
17:30:14  <andythenorth> it's actually dangerous
17:30:15  <frosch123> hmm, it takes quite a while to start up eints :p
17:30:31  <frosch123> reading all those file :p
17:30:31  <andythenorth> Dan's images aren't palette safe, and the colours can be co-erced with bad results
17:30:39  <andythenorth> flashing etc
17:31:07  <planetmaker> tell me about it, andythenorth. I know :-(
17:31:29  <planetmaker> I tried to teach him about palettes. But...
17:34:50  <V453000> :o
17:35:03  <andythenorth> saves me drawing though :)
17:35:06  <V453000> what software does he use
17:35:32  <oskari89> Paint
17:36:03  <DevZone> Project Iron Horse build #21-push: SUCCESS in 17 sec: https://jenkins.openttdcoop.org/job/iron-horse/21/
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17:36:27  <V453000> does that even accept palettes?
17:37:26  <andythenorth> oh looky
17:37:32  <andythenorth> auto-docs work :)
17:37:33  <andythenorth> http://bundles.openttdcoop.org/iron-horse/push/v4998-21/docs/html/trains.html
17:39:57  <V453000> XD
17:40:15  <V453000> My Lovely Horse Train Set
17:40:16  <V453000> XDDD
17:40:18  <V453000> OMFG :D
17:40:23  <planetmaker> :-)
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17:40:42  <oskari89> "Look at my horse, my horse is amazing"
17:40:45  <andythenorth> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jzYzVMcgWhg
17:40:45  <Webster> Title: Father Ted | My Lovely Horse | Channel 4, Length: 1m 10s, Views: 1081884, Likes: 5657
17:41:06  <frosch123> weird supybot plugins :p
17:41:11  <V453000> im done
17:41:13  <oskari89> andythenorth: Try amazing horse :P
17:41:29  <V453000> amazing > lovely
17:41:55  <V453000> but I suppose Lovely is closer to saying Lovely Whores instead of Amazing Whores
17:42:23  <andythenorth> weebl!
17:42:25  <andythenorth> Bob!
17:42:27  <andythenorth> Pie!
17:42:42  <V453000> !! :)
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17:47:38  <DevZone> Project Iron Horse build #22-push: SUCCESS in 20 sec: https://jenkins.openttdcoop.org/job/iron-horse/22/
17:51:14  <DevZone> Project Iron Horse build #23-push: SUCCESS in 16 sec: https://jenkins.openttdcoop.org/job/iron-horse/23/
18:08:32  <DevZone> Project OpenGFX+ Industries build #8-push: SUCCESS in 27 sec: https://jenkins.openttdcoop.org/job/ogfx-industries/8/
18:09:19  <DevZone> Project OpenGFX+ Airports build #6-push: SUCCESS in 43 sec: https://jenkins.openttdcoop.org/job/airportsplus/6/
18:09:49  <planetmaker> andythenorth, so... shall I also add that eints pushes back translation updates daily? Or you want to handle that manually?
18:09:57  <planetmaker> to FIRS I mean
18:10:03  <andythenorth> just push the updates
18:10:07  <andythenorth> lets see what happens
18:10:14  <planetmaker> k
18:10:14  <andythenorth> empiricism > thinking about it
18:10:35  <planetmaker> :D
18:11:21  <planetmaker> I think we would need to add empty files for each possible translation... should we do that?
18:13:53  <andythenorth> hmm
18:13:59  <andythenorth> sounds reasonable
18:14:01  <andythenorth> is it scripted?
18:14:32  <planetmaker> no(t yet)
18:14:44  <planetmaker> also not yet scripted is adding all translation roles
18:14:56  <Alberth> andythenorth: I just pushed views/language(s).tpl  in the eints project,  they could use some love from you
18:15:14  <andythenorth> ok
18:15:16  <andythenorth> remind me later :)
18:15:28  * andythenorth started a new trainset
18:15:29  <Alberth> why do you want to add empty files?
18:15:35  <DevZone> Project FIRS Industry Replacement Set build #11-push: SUCCESS in 5 min 12 sec: https://jenkins.openttdcoop.org/job/firs/11/
18:15:41  * andythenorth breaking all rules about starting new projects
18:16:01  <Alberth> I won't notice, I don't know your rules :p
18:16:41  <DevZone> Project Iron Horse build #24-push: SUCCESS in 22 sec: https://jenkins.openttdcoop.org/job/iron-horse/24/
18:20:10  <planetmaker> frosch123, how is translator_roles.sql called?
18:20:16  <planetmaker> frosch123, how is translator_roles.sql called?
18:20:30  <^Spike^> wasn't that a stored procedure if i saw it correctly?
18:20:45  <planetmaker> it's a file on translator VM
18:20:49  <^Spike^> hmmm
18:21:40  <andythenorth> biab
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18:30:52  <DevZone> Project Nutracks build #3-nightlies: SUCCESS in 20 sec: https://jenkins.openttdcoop.org/job/nutracks/3/
18:34:41  <DevZone> Project Shanghai Maglev Trackset build #2-nightlies: SUCCESS in 9.1 sec: https://jenkins.openttdcoop.org/job/smts/2/
18:45:55  <frosch123> planetmaker: the procedures are stored in the database
18:46:10  <frosch123> but what do you exactly want to do?
18:47:01  <planetmaker> now I want "add translator groups to project XX" :-)
18:48:13  <frosch123> so you added them all manually? :p
18:48:40  <planetmaker> with the list of translator groups it was one click per group
18:48:51  <planetmaker> well, two
18:49:11  <planetmaker> *list of translator roles
18:49:23  <planetmaker> copy name, paste, 'create'
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18:51:11  <frosch123> let's reverse engineer the db schema of groups
18:51:24  <frosch123> it's more fun than trying to find the right docs :p
18:57:25  <DevZone> Project Iron Horse build #25-push: FAILURE in 8.1 sec: https://jenkins.openttdcoop.org/job/iron-horse/25/
18:59:11  <frosch123> ah, they are in the users table
19:05:43  <DevZone> Yippie, build fixed!
19:05:43  <DevZone> Project Iron Horse build #26-push: FIXED in 26 sec: https://jenkins.openttdcoop.org/job/iron-horse/26/
19:06:46  <DevZone> Yippie, build fixed!
19:06:47  <DevZone> Project OpenGFX+ Trains build #2-nightlies: FIXED in 11 min: https://jenkins.openttdcoop.org/job/ogfx-trains/2/
19:26:05  <DevZone> Project Iron Horse build #27-push: SUCCESS in 19 sec: https://jenkins.openttdcoop.org/job/iron-horse/27/
19:26:44  <DevZone> Project Iron Horse build #28-push: SUCCESS in 16 sec: https://jenkins.openttdcoop.org/job/iron-horse/28/
19:29:19  <DevZone> Project Iron Horse build #29-push: SUCCESS in 21 sec: https://jenkins.openttdcoop.org/job/iron-horse/29/
19:36:09  <DevZone> Project Iron Horse build #30-push: SUCCESS in 19 sec: https://jenkins.openttdcoop.org/job/iron-horse/30/
19:36:17  <frosch123> planetmaker: so, what project shall i test my script on? :)
19:36:32  <frosch123> i checked it locally on my vm, where it works
19:37:08  <planetmaker> what about eints-test?
19:37:29  <frosch123> all right
19:37:39  <planetmaker> what does it do? Check all user-groups Translator XXX and adds it as user?
19:38:01  <frosch123> oh wait, my script will fail on devzone
19:38:13  <frosch123> it expects the groupname to be equal to the role name
19:38:22  <frosch123> so, let's first rename roles :)
19:38:30  <planetmaker> :D ok
19:39:12  <DevZone> Project Iron Horse build #31-push: SUCCESS in 21 sec: https://jenkins.openttdcoop.org/job/iron-horse/31/
19:40:04  <planetmaker> I just realized also: when you create a new project, you can inherit project members from the "mother" project.
19:40:14  <DevZone> Project Iron Horse build #32-push: SUCCESS in 23 sec: https://jenkins.openttdcoop.org/job/iron-horse/32/
19:40:24  <planetmaker> Thus in principle it should suffice for new projects to inherit them from the "NewGRF" project
19:40:37  <frosch123> planetmaker: you have to also code all that stuff into eints
19:40:54  <planetmaker> what?
19:41:03  <planetmaker> the inheritance?
19:41:08  <frosch123> eints access the database
19:41:27  <planetmaker> I naively assumed that it simply copies members
19:41:28  <frosch123> so all inheritance and group magic the redmine interface does, you also have to code into eints, if you want to use it
19:41:48  <frosch123> planetmaker: no, that would imply that the member stay if you remove them from the upper level
19:42:01  <frosch123> same for the groups, you see the greyed implicit members and the real members
19:42:32  <planetmaker> yes?
19:42:51  <frosch123> well, the greyed stuff needs coding in eints
19:42:56  <frosch123> only the real members are stored in the db
19:43:11  <frosch123> the greyed stuff is derived by redmine
19:43:24  <planetmaker> but... I could translate when group member - and the group member of the project
19:44:14  <frosch123> really?
19:44:29  <planetmaker> yes
19:44:48  <planetmaker> just check it out at eints-test...
19:44:51  <DevZone> Project xussrset - Trains from Russia build #9-push: SUCCESS in 2 min 22 sec: https://jenkins.openttdcoop.org/job/xussrset/9/
19:46:00  <DevZone> Project Iron Horse build #33-push: SUCCESS in 16 sec: https://jenkins.openttdcoop.org/job/iron-horse/33/
19:47:25  <frosch123> doesn'T work for me
19:48:14  <planetmaker> I added you to group en_AU. Try that
19:48:19  <planetmaker> you were in no group yet?
19:48:26  <frosch123> i added myself to de_DE
19:48:52  <DevZone> Project Iron Horse build #34-push: SUCCESS in 20 sec: https://jenkins.openttdcoop.org/job/iron-horse/34/
19:49:01  <planetmaker> you're currently not in that group. according to my webpage of eints
19:49:07  <frosch123> ah, wait confused proejcts
19:50:24  <frosch123> wow, indeed
19:50:30  <frosch123> that makes it easier :p
19:50:45  <George> planetmaker: Hi, something wrong with the repo. my tortoisehg reports commit r1089 is the last one, while http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/xussrset/repository shous only 1085
19:51:49  <planetmaker> :-) @ frosch123
19:52:02  <TWerkhoven> soap is the same
19:52:04  <George> and http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/xussrset/hudson/index gives error 500
19:52:16  <TWerkhoven> http://hg.openttdcoop.org/xussrset/ shows commits 10mins ago though
19:52:22  <planetmaker> https://hg.openttdcoop.org/xussrset/ more up to date, George ?
19:52:48  <George> Yes
19:53:27  <planetmaker> so, redmine's view currently is a bit outdated.... it's a somewhat know issue without fix yet
19:53:40  <planetmaker> why hudson link fails...hm... needs investigation
19:54:11  <DevZone> Project Iron Horse build #35-push: SUCCESS in 16 sec: https://jenkins.openttdcoop.org/job/iron-horse/35/
19:54:42  <planetmaker> https://jenkins.openttdcoop.org/job/xussrset/ works, though
19:55:11  <planetmaker> which is actually the real thing [TM] where the RM plugin on that page gets the data from
19:55:38  <planetmaker> hm, seems I screwed all those hudson plugin pages on RM
19:57:43  <planetmaker> I'll try look into those two things, thanks, George for bringing to my notice
19:58:07  <planetmaker> btw, George, you want to have translations committed to xussrset by eints? Or want to get the files yourself and commit?
19:58:17  <frosch123> hmm, 4 groups are missing
19:58:33  <planetmaker> And 2nd question: do you want to take part in the "global" translator groups, or assign translators individually?
19:58:42  <planetmaker> frosch123, I might have forgotten them
19:58:52  <George> I do not know
19:59:06  <George> what would it mean I need to do?
19:59:49  <planetmaker> if you want translations pushed to your repository, add an empty file: .devzone/translations/eints2repo
19:59:55  <planetmaker> but I could do that for you
20:00:03  <George> What would change in creating translations?
20:00:04  <planetmaker> For the 2nd option you'll also have to do nothing
20:00:21  <planetmaker> translations would magically appear in your repo
20:01:05  <planetmaker> all you need is a base language. Usually that's English. It could be Russian. But I fear many people then couldn't translate from Russian into their language
20:01:06  <George> For example I need a new string in the code - what would I do now? Currently I change the lng file and upload updated version in commit
20:01:16  <planetmaker> you continue to do that
20:01:33  <George> And what will change?
20:01:36  <planetmaker> translators will see "new string available". Or "existing string changed"
20:01:51  <George> where would they see it?
20:02:11  <George> base language should be English
20:02:32  <planetmaker> https://translator.openttdcoop.org/project/xussrset
20:03:31  <frosch123> have you checked the 203 erros in russian? if they are rather 203 errors in english, it should be fixed there before making it a real base language
20:05:16  <planetmaker> hm, I guess George first needs translator permission... :D
20:06:40  <planetmaker> there, now
20:07:12  <George> here http://bundles.openttdcoop.org/xussrset/push/v4998-9/translations/russian.html I see only 145 errors and they are not errors
20:07:34  <George> there was english strings fixed, russian strings are correct
20:07:59  <planetmaker> yes, but that tool does no validity checks
20:08:07  <planetmaker> it's different software
20:08:20  <frosch123> planetmaker: fail... role names are limited to 30 chars :p
20:08:34  <planetmaker> :-) ok
20:09:55  <George> do I understand it right, that this string is reported as wrong https://translator.openttdcoop.org/string/xussrset/ru_RU/STR_2AXIS_HNC_NAME ?
20:10:05  <George> And what is wrong in it?
20:11:15  <planetmaker> George, for me it says "translation status: correct"
20:11:45  <planetmaker> oi. I caused a 500
20:12:05  <George> well and what is wrong here https://translator.openttdcoop.org/string/xussrset/ru_RU/STR_2ES4K_PURCHASE_HINT ?
20:12:32  <planetmaker> Error: String command {RED} is missing in the translation
20:12:38  <planetmaker> read the explanation :-)
20:12:51  <George> but why should it be there?
20:13:01  <planetmaker> it's in the base language?
20:13:19  <planetmaker> you want translations to differ in colour?
20:13:43  <planetmaker> (besides that we concluded that checking on colour codes that strictly is not the best idea)
20:13:47  <George> As we discussed with MB, making some words coloured in English may be not that good in, for example, german, because they would be only a part of the word
20:14:36  <George> I want it to be allowed to have different colours
20:14:43  <planetmaker> well. then don't use it
20:14:54  <George> may be it can generate a warning, but not the error
20:15:09  <planetmaker> yes. It probably will do that somewhen
20:15:11  <George> do not use what?
20:15:19  <planetmaker> the translation tool
20:15:56  <George> But that mean I can upload new language file and it would be applied
20:16:11  <planetmaker> you can continue to do with your repository like you want
20:16:19  <planetmaker> this is only means to make it easy to translate stuff
20:16:33  <George> and if someone with permission changes file from the web tool it would be changed as in the text editor?
20:16:46  <planetmaker> and to offer people a one-stop translation site. One sign-on, translation to multiple projects. With an easy-to-use web interface
20:17:49  <George> Can you suggest someone who would make some translation except RU to test it? May be you can make a German one?
20:18:07  <planetmaker> you would see no difference to when you commit a lang file yourself
20:18:21  <planetmaker> except that you don't have to do it
20:19:34  <planetmaker> what that website does: it queries your repository for language files every 5 mintues or so
20:19:36  <George> You mean the webtranslator would not make commits, so uploading file would erase all the translations, done with the web?
20:20:21  <planetmaker> it then compares for each string in each translation:
20:20:28  <planetmaker> a) is it there? --> missing
20:20:44  <planetmaker> b) does syntax match? --> correct
20:21:03  <planetmaker> c) did base language string change since translation was changed? --> outdated
20:21:30  <planetmaker> if you allow, the web translator would commit changes made by translators to the lang files
20:22:00  <George> yes, how to allow it?
20:22:05  <George> May be you can start german translation to show how it works?
20:22:30  <planetmaker> I thought you had a German translation by michael already?
20:22:52  <George> No, he does not post it yet :(
20:22:58  <Alberth> good night
20:23:04  <planetmaker> good night, Alberth
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20:24:02  <planetmaker> George, ok, so may I commit a few empty language files to xussrset?
20:24:11  <George> Yes
20:25:12  <planetmaker> and I'll also enable eints committing. That is done automatically at... 17:47 CET, I think
20:29:00  <George> I do not have access here https://translator.openttdcoop.org/projsettings/xussrset
20:29:07  <George> Is it required?
20:29:10  <frosch123> 16:47 UTC, 17:47 CET, 18:47 CETS
20:29:13  <frosch123> *CEST
20:29:29  <DevZone> Project xussrset - Trains from Russia build #10-push: SUCCESS in 2 min 20 sec: https://jenkins.openttdcoop.org/job/xussrset/10/
20:29:50  <frosch123> George: no, that site is generated from the repository contents
20:29:56  <frosch123> no need to do stuff manually
20:30:20  <DevZone> Project Iron Horse build #36-push: SUCCESS in 18 sec: https://jenkins.openttdcoop.org/job/iron-horse/36/
20:32:31  <frosch123> planetmaker: ok, eints-test has lots of member groups :p
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20:33:24  <planetmaker> :-)
20:33:45  <planetmaker> frosch123, maybe add to FIRS, too :D
20:34:06  <planetmaker> George, STR_TANKER_ISSUE_OF_1945_25M3_NAME - what does it mean?
20:34:15  <planetmaker> Tanker 25 m3 of 1945
20:34:26  <planetmaker> 25 m^3 from 1945 onward?
20:35:09  <George> model produced since 1945, had 25m^3 capacity
20:35:24  <George> old wagons did not have numbers
20:35:35  <George> they were introduced later
20:35:48  <frosch123> sv_SE, gd_GB, en_GB, eu_ES are missing
20:35:58  <George> so we had to invent them
20:36:44  <George> issue)of means (model from xxxx year)
20:37:23  <DevZone> Project Iron Horse build #37-push: SUCCESS in 17 sec: https://jenkins.openttdcoop.org/job/iron-horse/37/
20:39:01  <planetmaker> hm, I recall adding sv_SE
20:39:27  <frosch123> can you add them, you know how you did the others :)
20:39:33  <planetmaker> George, I translated a few strings... https://translator.openttdcoop.org/download/xussrset/de_DE is what will get committed tomorrow
20:39:35  <frosch123> (name schema and such)
20:39:52  <planetmaker> yup, one moment
20:42:43  <George> planetmaker: ok, let's test it
20:44:05  <planetmaker> George, does a Russian "translation" in the form look ok https://translator.openttdcoop.org/download/xussrset/ru_RU ?
20:46:51  <planetmaker> hm, comparing without newline changes, that is quite ok
20:47:02  <planetmaker> all it does is change line endings from windows to unix style
20:47:18  <planetmaker> and changes the section comments from Russian to English
20:48:10  <George> except I try to start translation at pos 80 - yes
20:49:47  <^Spike^> i'll check xussrset jenkins settings in db for a moment...
20:50:07  <planetmaker> ^Spike^, also FIRS. maybe others. dunno. maybe permissions?
20:50:18  <planetmaker> permissions in jenkins that is... not sure, though
20:50:26  <^Spike^> ah
20:51:10  <^Spike^> is it all projects?
20:52:02  <frosch123> eints seems to replace tabs with a single space
20:52:27  <frosch123> so, if you replace the tabs in english.txt with the right amount of spaces, it should look fine
20:52:42  <frosch123> russian.txt does not use tabs, but english.txt does
20:53:16  <frosch123> planetmaker: run "expand english.txt" ?
20:53:35  <planetmaker> hu?
20:54:02  <frosch123> the indenting of ru_RU is so weird, because the base language contains tabs for indenting instead of spaces
20:54:10  <frosch123> and eints replaces one tab with one space
20:54:23  <frosch123> so, after download the string are no longer aligned
20:54:40  <planetmaker> oh yes, I probably could do that
20:55:57  <planetmaker> let's say: some English strings use tabs. some don't :-)
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21:02:03  <DevZone> Project xussrset - Trains from Russia build #11-push: SUCCESS in 2 min 30 sec: https://jenkins.openttdcoop.org/job/xussrset/11/
21:04:46  *** andythenorth has quit IRC
21:07:00  <^Spike^> jenkins fixed...
21:07:08  <^Spike^> or hudson tab that is
21:10:38  <^Spike^> https://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/75/hudson/index
21:10:39  <^Spike^> :)
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21:30:59  <planetmaker> so... all groups added to NewGRF project
21:31:42  <planetmaker> frosch123, can you see https://dev.openttdcoop.org/groups ?
21:34:05  <frosch123> of course i can?
21:34:20  <frosch123> i am still admin :p
21:36:12  <frosch123> http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/home/wiki/ManagingEints#Appointing-translators <- understandable?
21:36:42  <planetmaker> yeah, good
21:39:13  <frosch123> ok, i start adding more groups to grfdev
21:39:29  <planetmaker> more?
21:40:15  <frosch123> hmm, why is the list so short?
21:40:15  <planetmaker> it should have all languages added now, no?
21:40:26  <frosch123> it does not suggest any new ones though
21:40:54  <frosch123> it lists only 16 members for me
21:41:20  <planetmaker> uh... refresh maybe?
21:41:40  <planetmaker> ^spike^ translating kinda proves that there are more :_)
21:42:19  <planetmaker> only groups left un-assigned for me are thos w/o a role equivalent, thus unfinished OpentTD translations
21:42:28  <frosch123> hmm, works now, no idea where that was cached
21:42:46  * planetmaker is so happy :-)
21:43:06  * planetmaker high-fives all involved :-)
21:47:55  <frosch123> btw. i think rights.dat allows to configure 'eints-test' as pure sandbox project
21:48:07  <frosch123> so everyone could translate without being granted translator role
21:48:13  <frosch123> do we want to do that?
21:49:03  <planetmaker> eh... so anyone can translate everything... just by means of devzone login?
21:49:18  <planetmaker> not sure actually
21:49:19  <frosch123> just for the project "eints-test"
21:50:23  <frosch123> are you worried about people committing offensive translations?
21:50:52  <planetmaker> hm...
21:51:10  <planetmaker> probably not
21:51:31  <frosch123> hmm, but we lose a test project that way
21:51:32  <planetmaker> but I do think we can sell it better if there are translator roles assigned for individual languages
21:51:38  <frosch123> so, likely something for later :p
21:52:05  <frosch123> hu?
21:52:06  <planetmaker> oh... you mean a sandbox project so that everyone can see how it works?
21:52:22  <frosch123> __  just for the project "eints-test" __
21:52:32  <planetmaker> yes. But ... why? :-)
21:52:47  <frosch123> so people can take a look at it
21:52:54  <frosch123> before singing up as translator
21:53:13  <planetmaker> ok. Well, we could simply create a special, separate sandbox project for that. With proper name even
21:53:43  <planetmaker> let's keep eints-test as our private playground for testing stuff
21:53:44  <frosch123> you mean "eints-sandbox" instead of "eints-test" ?
21:53:53  <planetmaker> :D
21:53:58  <frosch123> yeah, for now i definitely need a test project :)
21:54:07  <frosch123> so, well, stuff for later
21:54:19  <planetmaker> and I do as well. I misuse it for jenkins and stuff, too
21:54:23  <frosch123> i just noticed that rights.dat allows exceptions for specific users and projects
21:54:32  <planetmaker> hm :-)
21:54:58  <planetmaker> oh. that's interesting. So in principle it could say, like, "frosch may translate everything to German except FIRS"?
21:55:10  <frosch123> yes :p
21:55:29  <frosch123> but don't tell others, else they will direct their silly exceptional requests to you
21:55:42  <planetmaker> yeah
22:17:01  <planetmaker> wrote foobar a message... I want to enable the stuff also in all his projects and hope he'll agree
22:46:37  * planetmaker ponders running https://paste.openttdcoop.org/show/2600/ on repos
22:47:08  <frosch123> i am not sure what nml will do with that
22:47:24  <frosch123> i would rather like a eints feature to add those files
22:47:50  <planetmaker> yeah, I agree
22:48:51  <frosch123> 30 empty translations in every project would definitely be weird :p
22:49:38  <planetmaker> yes
22:59:08  <Supercheese> Is the new eints system fully operational?
23:01:01  <planetmaker> yes. One thing which needs automatization is the initial creation of an empty translation, though
23:01:28  <planetmaker> that still has to be done by the project developers. Once a dummy translation exists, signed-up translators can go ahead.
23:01:56  <planetmaker> Supercheese, wanna test it? what language?
23:02:09  <Supercheese> Already applied for en_US, the bot seems to not have posted it
23:02:19  <Supercheese> ... where is the bot anyway?
23:02:33  <planetmaker> I probably didn't look. And the bot... is kinda gone :D
23:02:38  <Supercheese> Seems so
23:02:42  <planetmaker> waiting to be replaced or re-done
23:03:05  <frosch123> 19:36
23:03:07  <frosch123> brot left
23:04:13  <planetmaker> assigned, Supercheese. The only project with an en_US translation so far is FIRS
23:04:20  <planetmaker> afaik
23:04:26  <Supercheese> Roger, time to check it out
23:04:31  <planetmaker> But I'll happily add you one to others
23:04:40  <Supercheese> Many don't need it
23:04:47  <planetmaker> yeah
23:04:50  <Supercheese> i.e. no colour vs. color, etc.
23:10:10  <planetmaker> well, ping me, if you want translator rights for a project without an en_US translation. I'll add then. For now though sleep here :-)
23:10:26  <Supercheese> roger wilco
23:10:35  <planetmaker> good night everyone
23:18:34  <DevZone> Project Finnish Rail Infrastructure build #16-push: SUCCESS in 31 sec: https://jenkins.openttdcoop.org/job/friss/16/
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23:21:02  * Supercheese wonders if there is a way to automatically handle gallons vs. liters, etc. in FIRS strings
23:21:15  <Supercheese> i.e. "2,000l per 8,000l delivered"
23:21:40  <frosch123> does ottd have gallons?
23:21:42  <Supercheese> aye
23:22:00  <Supercheese> was committed a few revisions ago
23:22:10  <frosch123> anyway, in theory there would be an option, but andy need to code that
23:22:30  <Supercheese> r25508
23:23:46  <Supercheese> I don't actually use the gallons option, the conversion factors result in less nice numbers
23:24:12  <Supercheese> 2,000 liters becomes 528-ish gallons, much less "pretty" number
23:25:23  <Supercheese> Perhaps I should code an industry set with everything in English units :P
23:28:36  <Supercheese> This eints is very smooth
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23:40:52  <Supercheese> I'll have to move some of my projects to the devzone to take advantage of this
23:44:38  <frosch123> every project with a free license is welcome :)

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