Config
Log for #openttdcoop.pro on 26th November 2012:
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19:04:51  <Vinnie_nl> !password
19:04:51  <ProZone> Vinnie_nl: finner
19:05:08  <ProZone> *** Game still paused (number of players)
19:05:08  <ProZone> *** Vinnie joined the game
19:05:28  <Vinnie_nl> @archive
19:05:28  <Webster> http://www.openttdcoop.org/wiki/PublicServer:Archive | http://www.openttdcoop.org/wiki/MemberZone:Archive | http://www.openttdcoop.org/wiki/ProZone:Archive
19:06:38  <ProZone> *** Vinnie has left the game (leaving)
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20:52:36  <V453000> !getsave https://dl.dropbox.com/u/20419525/pzg22start1.sav
20:52:38  <ProZone> V453000: OK :-)
20:52:38  <V453000> !gamenr 22
20:52:38  <ProZone> *** V453000 has set gamenr to 22 (next !restart)
20:52:42  <V453000> !content
20:52:42  <ProZone> V453000: [Content] Connection established
20:52:42  <ProZone> V453000: [Content] Downloading 0 file(s) (0 bytes)
20:52:42  <ProZone> V453000: [Content] All 0 downloaded
20:52:42  <ProZone> V453000: [Content] (you need to rescan(ai|game|newgrf) to have the new content loaded)
20:52:46  <V453000> !content
20:52:48  <ProZone> V453000: [Content Update] Expect timeout triggered!
20:52:48  <ProZone> V453000: [Content] Downloading 14 file(s) (1853375 bytes)
20:52:49  <ProZone> V453000: [Content] Completed download of 2370
20:52:49  <ProZone> V453000: [Content] Completed download of 2375
20:52:49  <ProZone> V453000: [Content] Completed download of 2381
20:52:49  <ProZone> V453000: [Content] Completed download of 2373
20:52:49  <ProZone> V453000: [Content] Completed download of 2372
20:52:51  <ProZone> V453000: [Content] Completed download of 2380
20:52:51  <ProZone> V453000: [Content] Completed download of 2374
20:52:54  <ProZone> V453000: [Content] Completed download of 606
20:52:54  <ProZone> V453000: [Content] Completed download of 970
20:52:55  <ProZone> V453000: [Content] Completed download of 1025
20:52:55  <ProZone> V453000: [Content] Completed download of 2363
20:52:57  <ProZone> V453000: [Content] Completed download of 2368
20:52:57  <ProZone> V453000: [Content] Completed download of 2376
20:52:59  <ProZone> V453000: [Content] Completed download of 2378
20:52:59  <ProZone> V453000: [Content] All 14 downloaded
20:53:01  <ProZone> V453000: [Content] (you need to rescan(ai|game|newgrf) to have the new content loaded)
20:53:21  <V453000> !restart
20:53:21  <ProZone> V453000: Restart scheduled, will be initiated in next minute!
20:54:02  <ProZone> Scheduled quit for automated maintenance... will be back shortely
20:54:02  <ProZone> Thank you for playing r24673.
20:54:06  <ProZone> Server has exited
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20:54:24  <ProZone> Autopilot engaged
20:54:24  <ProZone> Loading savegame: '{#openttdcoop} ProZone (www.openttdcoop.org)'
20:54:24  *** ChanServ sets mode: +v ProZone
20:54:24  *** Webster changes topic to "#openttdcoop ProZone | PZG22 (r24673) | STAGE: Finalizing | visit www.openttdcoop.org/wiki/PZ_game_ideas"
20:54:44  <ProZone> ***  made screenshot at 0002133A: http://pz.openttdcoop.org/prozone/webcam/0002133A.png
20:55:24  <V453000> @stage Madness
20:55:24  *** Webster changes topic to "#openttdcoop ProZone | PZG22 (r24673) | STAGE: Madness | visit www.openttdcoop.org/wiki/PZ_game_ideas"
20:56:08  <V453000> !getsave  https://dl.dropbox.com/u/20419525/pzg22start2.sav
20:56:10  <ProZone> V453000: OK :-)
20:56:18  <Vinnie_nl> like the stage
20:56:36  <V453000> !rcon cd 3
20:56:38  <V453000> !rcon load 2
20:56:40  <ProZone> *** Game still paused (manual, number of players)
20:56:49  <V453000> !changepw
20:56:49  <ProZone> V453000: Password changed to bisect
20:57:03  <ProZone> *** Game still paused (manual, number of players)
20:57:06  <ProZone> *** V453000 joined the game
20:57:10  <V453000> !rcon load 1
20:57:12  <ProZone> *** Game still paused (manual, number of players)
20:57:15  <V453000> !changepw
20:57:15  <ProZone> V453000: Password changed to bleats
20:57:16  <V453000> !auto
20:57:16  <ProZone> *** V453000 has enabled autopause mode.
20:57:22  <ProZone> *** Game still paused (manual, number of players)
20:57:24  <ProZone> *** V453000 joined the game
20:58:37  <ProZone> *** V453000 has joined company #1
20:58:45  <V453000> !unpause
20:58:45  <ProZone> *** V453000 has unpaused the server.
20:59:10  <V453000> !rcon unpause
20:59:10  <ProZone> *** Game unpaused (manual)
21:00:11  <ProZone> <Vinnie> Hello
21:00:11  <ProZone> *** Vinnie joined the game
21:00:15  <ProZone> <V453000> hy
21:00:17  <ProZone> *** Vinnie has joined company #1
21:01:02  <ProZone> *** Sturmi joined the game
21:01:03  <ProZone> <Sturmi> plop
21:04:55  *** ODM has quit IRC
21:07:56  <ProZone> <V453000> does this make any sense?
21:08:39  <ProZone> <Vinnie> not really with 2 lines on south full
21:09:39  <ProZone> <Vinnie> but i get the idea from stablr
21:17:40  <ProZone> <V453000> hm well this is basically what it is
21:18:11  <ProZone> <Vinnie> so food and goods to south get a seperate track?
21:19:25  <ProZone> <V453000> well they could
21:19:35  <ProZone> <V453000> but they can also run on the same track as empty raw trains
21:19:38  <ProZone> <V453000> which is the funnier part imo
21:20:33  <ProZone> <Vinnie> i got it, lets try to reach 255 orders without spamming
21:21:00  <ProZone> <V453000> wont happen
21:21:06  <ProZone> <V453000> 109 with 6 cargoes
21:21:12  <ProZone> <V453000> 8 will take just a few more
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21:22:02  <ProZone> <Vinnie> wispers something about FIRS
21:22:08  <ProZone> <V453000> ?
21:22:26  <ProZone> <Vinnie> more cargos :)
21:22:32  <ProZone> <V453000> yes but in weird productions
21:22:35  <ProZone> <V453000> not really fitting I think
21:22:53  <ProZone> <Vinnie> it will get WTF
21:23:16  <ProZone> <Vinnie> but i like this
21:23:17  <ProZone> <Vinnie> nice idea
21:24:50  <ProZone> <V453000> 2 heads win :)
21:25:24  <ProZone> <V453000> should make a detailed scheme of one end I guess
21:29:10  <ProZone> <V453000> could even do
21:29:38  <ProZone> <Vinnie> logic line underground?
21:29:53  <ProZone> <V453000> all this is real lines
21:32:45  <ProZone> <V453000> ok this is about it
21:33:54  <Maraxus> !password
21:33:55  <ProZone> Maraxus: sonata
21:34:08  <ProZone> *** Maraxus joined the game
21:34:15  <ProZone> <Maraxus> hi
21:34:21  <ProZone> <Vinnie> hello
21:34:46  <ProZone> <V453000> it looks weird but this is what it is
21:34:52  <ProZone> <Vinnie> reversed mandatory?
21:35:02  <ProZone> <Vinnie> reverser*
21:35:08  <ProZone> <V453000> in front of raw check?
21:35:18  <ProZone> <Vinnie> primary
21:35:44  <ProZone> <V453000> well if we give gigantic penalties it would work without all the reversers
21:36:04  <ProZone> <Vinnie> I know enough :D
21:36:46  *** mfb- has joined #openttdcoop.pro
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21:36:51  <ProZone> <V453000> we could even use extreme PBS_back value for that I guess
21:37:09  <ProZone> <V453000> reverser method = reliable
21:37:11  <ProZone> <V453000> but ...
21:37:29  <ProZone> <V453000> if something fucks up, penalties are more flexible to fix itself
21:38:07  <V453000> !rcon set yapf.PBS_signal_back_penalty
21:38:07  <ProZone> V453000: 'yapf.PBS_signal_back_penalty' is an unknown setting.
21:38:35  <mfb-> !password
21:38:35  <ProZone> mfb-: spleen
21:38:44  <ProZone> *** mfb joined the game
21:39:23  <V453000> !rcon set yapf.rail_pbs_signal_back_penalty
21:39:23  <ProZone> V453000: Current value for 'yapf.rail_pbs_signal_back_penalty' is: '1500' (min: 0, max: 1000000)
21:39:29  <V453000> !rcon set yapf.rail_pbs_signal_back_penalty 50000
21:39:35  <V453000> setting yapf signal back to 50 000
21:40:03  <ProZone> <V453000> hello mfb
21:40:11  <ProZone> <mfb> hi
21:40:13  <ProZone> <V453000> what do you say about this shit :)
21:40:19  <ProZone> <V453000> aww dozer is off
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21:40:30  <ProZone> <mfb> looks like previous setups, just with refit
21:40:56  <ProZone> <V453000> sort of
21:42:26  <ProZone> <V453000> will take about 130 train orders
21:42:36  <ProZone> <V453000> maybe a bit more
21:44:11  <mfb-> you uploaded a big list of files :D
21:44:21  <ProZone> <V453000> new srnw page :)
21:44:50  <ProZone> <V453000> and we have a page about 2way eol now
21:45:12  <mfb-> nice
21:45:19  <ProZone> <V453000> ok so who wants to play this? :)
21:46:33  <ProZone> <V453000> anyone actually not-afk? :D
21:46:48  <ProZone> <Vinnie> boo
21:46:55  <ProZone> <Maraxus> reading plan
21:47:17  <ProZone> <Vinnie> i will play
21:48:28  <ProZone> <V453000> brb turning dozer on
21:48:38  <ProZone> *** V453000 has left the game (leaving)
21:49:01  <V453000> !getsave https://dl.dropbox.com/u/20419525/Ronnley%20Transport%2C%202103-08-22.sav
21:49:03  <ProZone> V453000: OK :-)
21:49:28  <ProZone> *** Vinnie has joined spectators
21:49:36  <V453000> !rcon load 1
21:49:39  <ProZone> *** Game still paused (manual, number of players)
21:49:43  <V453000> !rcon unpause
21:49:43  <ProZone> *** Game still paused (number of players)
21:49:44  <V453000> !auto
21:49:44  <ProZone> *** V453000 has enabled autopause mode.
21:49:46  <V453000> !changepw
21:49:47  <ProZone> V453000: Password changed to blazer
21:49:52  <ProZone> *** Game still paused (number of players)
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21:50:04  <ProZone> <mfb> oh, small map
21:50:06  <V453000> !getsave https://dl.dropbox.com/u/20419525/Ronnley%20Transport%2C%202103-08-22.sav
21:50:07  <ProZone> V453000: OK :-)
21:50:07  <ProZone> *** Game still paused (number of players)
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21:50:23  <V453000> !rcon load 1
21:50:24  <ProZone> *** Game paused (number of players)
21:50:26  <mfb-> just 128x512
21:50:29  <V453000> !date
21:50:29  <ProZone> V453000: 22 Aug 2103
21:50:33  <V453000> !changepw
21:50:33  <ProZone> V453000: Password changed to luring
21:50:39  <ProZone> *** Game still paused (number of players)
21:50:41  <ProZone> *** Game still paused (number of players)
21:50:41  <ProZone> *** V453000 joined the game
21:50:41  <V453000> yeah should be fun
21:50:43  <ProZone> *** Maraxus joined the game
21:50:45  <V453000> not the classic size :)
21:50:47  <ProZone> *** Game still paused (number of players)
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21:51:47  <ProZone> <V453000> lets start with LL?
21:52:01  <ProZone> <V453000> most lines will need expanding only from the "higher traffic" ends later
21:52:15  <ProZone> <mfb> hmm
21:52:22  <ProZone> *** V453000 has joined company #1
21:52:30  <ProZone> <V453000> what does that mean? :D
21:52:40  <ProZone> <mfb> we could use the same line for empty+full raws I think
21:53:10  <ProZone> <V453000> they would split again then
21:53:16  <ProZone> <V453000> full would split into primaries
21:53:16  <ProZone> <mfb> no, just add a check
21:53:26  <ProZone> <mfb> after the SL
21:53:30  <ProZone> <mfb> to change order to "goto drop"
21:53:36  <ProZone> <V453000> well yeah but the check has to end at the end of the map
21:53:38  <ProZone> <V453000> not after every Sl
21:53:45  <ProZone> <mfb> why?
21:53:59  <ProZone> <V453000> all trains share orders
21:54:05  <ProZone> <mfb> of course
21:54:11  <ProZone> <V453000> end of map -> refit to next cargo
21:54:31  <ProZone> <mfb> ah ok
21:54:50  <ProZone> <V453000> you probably could have checks on ML
21:55:08  <ProZone> <V453000> go to 1, 2 , 3
21:55:22  <ProZone> <V453000> check on ML after every SL
21:55:25  <ProZone> <mfb> (ab)use station spread, hmm
21:55:28  <ProZone> <mfb> would work
21:55:46  <ProZone> <V453000> not that much of a huge abuse
21:55:48  <ProZone> <V453000> if any abuse at all
21:56:11  <ProZone> <V453000> trains like SL
21:56:21  <ProZone> <V453000> after SL merges back, check is applied
21:56:29  <ProZone> <V453000> if train full, go to drop
21:56:35  <ProZone> <V453000> if train still empty, go to next check
21:56:45  <ProZone> <V453000> that might not be a terrible amount of orders to add either
21:56:51  <ProZone> <V453000> well depending on amount of SLs obviously
21:57:09  <ProZone> <V453000> I had 109 orders for 6 cargo types
21:57:15  <ProZone> <V453000> including all refit waypoints in front of all depots
21:57:17  <mfb-> ah right, SL can merge into ML
21:57:19  <mfb-> that is nice
21:58:12  <V453000> @calc 106/6
21:58:12  <Webster> V453000: 17.6666666667
21:58:18  <V453000> @calc 108/6
21:58:18  <Webster> V453000: 18
21:58:28  <V453000> k probably 18 orders per cargo max
21:58:43  <V453000> that makes 108+32= 140 orders max only for main refit
21:59:03  <V453000> that means we have about 100 orders remaining
21:59:28  <V453000> SL waypoint, check if full should be just 2 orders if I am thinking correctly
22:00:09  <V453000> which should allow almost 50 ML checks
22:00:15  *** Progman has quit IRC
22:00:35  <ProZone> <Vinnie> every 20th tile
22:00:37  <ProZone> <mfb> :D
22:00:38  <V453000> 20+ at each ML end should be way sufficient
22:00:51  <ProZone> <V453000> so yeah
22:01:17  <ProZone> <V453000> this is getting interesting
22:02:13  <ProZone> <V453000> raw drop is combined everything
22:02:20  <ProZone> <V453000> raw drop, secondary drop at each end
22:02:22  <ProZone> <mfb> well, right
22:02:37  <ProZone> <V453000> while secondary drop at SL must not be able to accept steel from N
22:02:51  <ProZone> <V453000> so no goods are produced from steel
22:03:29  *** bassals has quit IRC
22:04:22  <ProZone> <V453000> the station needs to be a bit different but generally yeah
22:04:38  <ProZone> <V453000> and you dont really need 2 separate refits :)
22:04:50  <ProZone> <mfb> well, whatever
22:04:52  <ProZone> <V453000> uhmf
22:04:55  <ProZone> <V453000> yeah +-
22:05:13  <ProZone> <V453000> hm
22:05:23  <ProZone> <V453000> what we could do is not have a factory accepting steel at S
22:05:41  <ProZone> <V453000> atm there is copper ore/ rubber which does also accept steel
22:05:49  <ProZone> <mfb> where is the problem with a longer steel chain?
22:05:59  <ProZone> <V453000> breaks train return conditions
22:06:07  <ProZone> <V453000> trains try again the same primary if they deliver goods
22:06:13  <ProZone> <mfb> it has to switch side afterwards
22:06:13  <ProZone> <V453000> more goods-> always
22:06:35  <ProZone> <V453000> what we can do is 2 things
22:06:41  <ProZone> <V453000> 1. transfer steel at drop
22:06:52  <ProZone> <V453000> 2. rearrange industries but that will make goods separate
22:07:02  <ProZone> <V453000> I like that goods are separate so they change between each other for more randomness
22:07:08  <ProZone> <V453000> I mean I like that they are together
22:07:15  <ProZone> <V453000> while food is also together
22:07:26  <ProZone> *** Vinnie has joined spectators
22:07:38  <ProZone> <V453000> we can easily transfer steel at drop and then deliver it, or even ignore it
22:07:48  <ProZone> <V453000> I wouldnt be against either of those 2 options
22:07:58  <ProZone> <V453000> it is a logic game you dont need to deliver the steel :>
22:08:14  <mfb-> hmm, treat steel as 8th cargo with a big "pickup" at one side
22:08:28  <ProZone> <V453000> we already have 8 cargoes
22:08:28  <mfb-> at both sides
22:08:33  <mfb-> oh, 9th
22:08:40  <mfb-> might be tricky with total number of orders
22:08:43  <ProZone> <V453000> 4 for each end, no 10th
22:08:52  <mfb-> ok ;)
22:09:01  <ProZone> <V453000> lets transfer steel, we can deliver it later if you want
22:09:11  <ProZone> <V453000> I think that is the cleanest option
22:09:11  <Dom_> !password
22:09:11  <ProZone> Dom_: proses
22:09:20  <ProZone> *** Dom joined the game
22:09:21  <ProZone> <mfb> ah, local steel delivery
22:09:24  <ProZone> <Dom> hello
22:09:26  <ProZone> <V453000> pretty much
22:11:34  <ProZone> <V453000> k
22:11:36  <ProZone> <V453000> this is the scheme
22:11:46  <ProZone> <mfb> what does refit->raw A do?
22:11:52  <ProZone> <mfb> ah for goods drop
22:12:03  <ProZone> <V453000> A is the cargo which trains dropped
22:12:07  <ProZone> <V453000> B is next cargo in the cycle
22:12:09  <ProZone> <mfb> I see
22:12:27  <ProZone> <V453000> yeah after successful foodd/steel drop
22:12:37  <ProZone> <V453000> steel transfer :)
22:13:13  <ProZone> <V453000> no
22:13:19  <ProZone> <V453000> steel Cant deliver to the factory
22:13:21  <ProZone> <V453000> more like
22:13:28  <ProZone> <V453000> this
22:13:51  <ProZone> <mfb> where is the difference?
22:13:53  <ProZone> <V453000> in N there is no such complication, just drop all
22:13:56  <ProZone> <V453000> factory
22:13:59  <ProZone> <V453000> cant accept steel
22:14:13  <ProZone> <mfb> ?
22:14:19  <ProZone> <V453000> there is some % of trains which will try to go the same cargo again
22:14:25  <ProZone> <V453000> because they managed to load goods
22:14:31  <ProZone> <V453000> if you deliver steel you make that 100%
22:14:35  <ProZone> <V453000> and at food/steel say, 80%
22:14:41  <ProZone> <V453000> lets keep that the same
22:14:44  <ProZone> <mfb> drop+do not load?
22:14:46  <ProZone> <V453000> so no breaking with steel
22:14:52  <ProZone> <mfb> ok
22:14:58  <ProZone> <V453000> no, steel trains dont care
22:15:01  <ProZone> <V453000> the other raw trains do
22:15:04  <ProZone> <mfb> I don't see the issue
22:15:14  <ProZone> <V453000> if copper ore train drops at S
22:15:17  <ProZone> <V453000> it tries to load goods
22:15:31  <ProZone> <V453000> fails to load 100% -> refit to B
22:15:41  <ProZone> <V453000> if you drop steel there, refit to B will never happen at that point
22:15:57  <ProZone> <V453000> while it will happen on the other end of the map
22:16:09  <ProZone> <V453000> which probably doesnt break anything entirely but is at least weird
22:16:16  <ProZone> <mfb> hmmhmm
22:16:34  <ProZone> <mfb> but to get goods for iron ore trains, we have to deliver steel there
22:16:44  <ProZone> <V453000> we dont want goods from iron ore trains
22:16:50  <ProZone> <V453000> secondary for ore is steel, chain complete for our needs
22:16:52  <ProZone> <mfb> otherwise iron ore is the only cargo which does not produce goods
22:17:06  <ProZone> <mfb> (but tries to load)
22:17:12  <ProZone> <V453000> no
22:17:22  <ProZone> <V453000> after dropping steel train goes to refit A
22:17:25  <ProZone> <V453000> no goods pickup
22:17:31  <ProZone> <mfb> ah ok
22:17:49  <ProZone> <mfb> with a local delivery, we could let them load goods as well
22:17:51  <ProZone> *** Vinnie has left the game (leaving)
22:17:53  <ProZone> <V453000> you can do steel->goods refit at steel delivery :P
22:18:11  <ProZone> <mfb> with ore->goods refit
22:18:25  <ProZone> <V453000> I personally would be evil and leave steel completely rotten in the transfer though
22:18:27  <ProZone> <V453000> what ore-goods
22:18:42  <ProZone> <V453000> you have ore -> steel chain, since then steel is just independent pile of stuff transfered at S
22:18:51  <Vinnie_nl> gn
22:18:54  <ProZone> <V453000> cya
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22:19:24  <ProZone> <V453000> lets go with this:
22:19:44  <ProZone> <V453000> lets ignore steel completely, let it rot in the transfer. Then you can do whatever you want with it
22:20:10  <ProZone> <V453000> done, network works same way on both ends, you can finish steel chain as much as you want
22:20:36  <mfb-> ore -> ? refit?
22:20:50  <ProZone> <V453000> ore -> steel yes
22:20:56  <ProZone> <V453000> done, chain complete
22:20:58  <ProZone> <mfb> ok
22:21:28  <ProZone> <V453000> alright
22:21:35  <ProZone> <V453000> guess we best start with the main stations
22:22:35  <ProZone> <V453000> probably better to name Southbound and Northbound SLs
22:22:41  <ProZone> <V453000> S 01 ... ?
22:22:43  <ProZone> <V453000> N 01, ...
22:22:55  <ProZone> <V453000> yeah :)
22:23:10  <ProZone> <V453000> just in case we end up getting more than 10
22:23:20  <ProZone> <V453000> wait that is unlikely with map of 512 :)
22:23:24  <ProZone> <mfb> :D
22:23:28  <ProZone> <V453000> no matter :)
22:23:34  <ProZone> <V453000> ordnung
22:23:48  <ProZone> <mfb> you know, we can build SLH10 even if the others are SL1, SL2, ..
22:23:58  <ProZone> <V453000> no you cant ! :D you must have 01
22:24:08  <ProZone> <mfb> and we can even rename them!
22:24:10  <V453000> !rcon set staiton_spread 666
22:24:10  <ProZone> V453000: ‎[All] mfb: amazing
22:24:10  <ProZone> V453000: 'staiton_spread' is an unknown setting.
22:24:21  <mfb-> staiton!
22:24:28  <V453000> !rcon set station_spread 666
22:24:38  <ProZone> <V453000> ofc you cant rename them that would be like ...
22:24:46  <ProZone> *** V453000 has changed his/her name to V453001
22:24:50  <ProZone> <mfb> adaptive?
22:24:52  <ProZone> *** V453001 has changed his/her name to V453002
22:24:56  <ProZone> <V453002> thats just wrong
22:24:59  <ProZone> *** V453002 has changed his/her name to V453000
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22:31:51  <ProZone> <mfb> hmm, N station is like S station
22:31:57  <ProZone> <mfb> or did I miss something?
22:32:08  <ProZone> <V453000> both stations are exactly the same yes
22:32:30  <ProZone> <V453000> oh you are making a complete plan :)
22:36:16  <ProZone> <mfb> grain, lv, fruit, X?
22:36:27  <ProZone> <V453000> iron ore? :p
22:36:33  <ProZone> <mfb> ah right
22:36:55  <ProZone> <V453000> south station pretty much ready
22:36:58  <ProZone> <Maraxus> gn
22:37:05  <ProZone> <V453000> see you
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22:38:16  <ProZone> <mfb> ah, N has an additional steel pickup
22:38:24  <ProZone> <V453000> same station as food pickup
22:38:34  <ProZone> <mfb> hmm.. righ
22:39:13  <ProZone> <Dom> what can i do or build wothout fucking up the plan?
22:39:23  <ProZone> <V453000> north station, similar to S
22:39:27  <ProZone> <V453000> refit station
22:39:38  <ProZone> <Dom> ok
22:40:02  <ProZone> <V453000> only the refit to A is additional
22:40:09  <ProZone> <V453000> which I forgot I see :)
22:40:36  <ProZone> <mfb> you added a line for it
22:40:38  <ProZone> <V453000> you can just copy my station if you want, or just build your own
22:40:45  <ProZone> <mfb> right?
22:40:53  <ProZone> <V453000> yeah but I didnt add the actual refit :)
22:40:59  <ProZone> <Dom> and you r stations on the pickup are a bit to long
22:41:09  <ProZone> <mfb> they have to
22:41:15  <ProZone> <V453000> 3 tiles are correct
22:41:22  <ProZone> <V453000> for pickup
22:41:25  <ProZone> <mfb> some trains visit the station twice
22:42:00  <ProZone> <Dom> but arent we using tl 2 trains?
22:42:06  <ProZone> <mfb> right
22:42:12  <ProZone> <mfb> they can stop at the near end
22:42:12  <ProZone> <V453000> see ABR 11 or just clone my station :p
22:42:14  <ProZone> <mfb> try to load
22:42:28  <ProZone> <mfb> and if they don't get 100%, visit the same station afterwards (far end)
22:45:17  <ProZone> <mfb> :D
22:45:23  <ProZone> <V453000> :DD
22:45:26  <ProZone> <Dom> ?
22:45:34  <ProZone> <mfb> I added water for oil ref
22:45:36  <ProZone> <V453000> didnt realize the opengfx+ industries have it near water like that
22:45:38  <ProZone> <V453000> that is fun
22:46:16  <ProZone> <mfb> stupid food
22:46:30  <ProZone> <V453000> will just add a town later
22:48:48  <ProZone> <Dom> i still do not get why the goods trains are tl 3?
22:48:50  <ProZone> <Dom> or the staitons
22:48:53  <ProZone> <V453000> you will see
22:48:55  <ProZone> <mfb> read ABR11
22:49:01  <ProZone> <mfb> or wait until we have trains
22:49:24  <ProZone> <Dom> so food and steel should also be tl 3?
22:49:28  <ProZone> <V453000> it is because trains go to the station twice, first near end, secondly middle/far end and trigger conditions between that
22:49:30  <ProZone> <V453000> yes
22:49:33  <ProZone> <mfb> ML like that?
22:49:35  <ProZone> <Dom> ok
22:49:41  <ProZone> <V453000> yeah why not I guess
22:51:51  <ProZone> <mfb> hmm
22:52:20  <ProZone> <V453000> shouldnt wait
22:52:36  <ProZone> <V453000> and if they do they use other platforms for drop, thats okay too
22:52:47  <ProZone> <V453000> it is just for the not-stacking depot
22:52:57  <ProZone> <V453000> or .. less-stacking :)
22:55:15  <ProZone> <V453000> SL every 50 tiles?
22:56:01  <ProZone> <mfb> why not
22:56:07  <ProZone> <V453000> can try
22:56:13  <ProZone> <mfb> every 100 tiles should work, too
22:56:39  <ProZone> <V453000> hm
22:56:53  <ProZone> <mfb> we can use other numbers, too
22:56:56  <ProZone> <mfb> every 79 tiles!
22:56:59  <ProZone> <V453000> need 4 pf traps at each end of map btw
22:57:01  <ProZone> <mfb> not more, not less!
22:57:23  <ProZone> <V453000> wait
22:57:29  <ProZone> <V453000> is this even actually compatible with the plan?
22:57:40  <ProZone> <V453000> we have one check so far not 8
22:57:50  <ProZone> <mfb> we need 4 waypoints each
22:58:00  <ProZone> <V453000> all trains go through every SL now
22:58:02  <ProZone> <mfb> just in a row
22:58:06  <ProZone> <V453000> actually
22:58:08  <ProZone> <mfb> and pf-traps to those on SLs
22:58:26  <ProZone> <V453000> see near plan
22:58:53  <ProZone> <V453000> must be like that
22:58:59  <ProZone> <V453000> this is a grain SL then
22:59:05  <ProZone> <mfb> ah ok
22:59:11  <ProZone> <mfb> we can do multiple cargos/SLH as well
22:59:17  <ProZone> <V453000> yeah probably
22:59:17  <ProZone> <mfb> with more traps
22:59:19  <ProZone> <V453000> ye
22:59:27  <ProZone> <mfb> ok
22:59:29  <ProZone> <mfb> good night
22:59:32  <ProZone> <V453000> gn
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23:02:32  <ProZone> <V453000> that is one ugly and lazy way how to do pseudo balancing Dom
23:02:42  <ProZone> <Dom> ...
23:02:48  <ProZone> <V453000> regardless of the 90 degree curve
23:02:54  <ProZone> <V453000> nvm :)
23:07:40  <ProZone> <V453000> want hints?
23:07:46  <ProZone> <Dom> always :D
23:07:58  <ProZone> <V453000> when making a balanced entrance it is good to first start with sets of platforms
23:08:01  <ProZone> <V453000> like 4-4-4
23:08:15  <ProZone> <V453000> make 1->2 at each
23:08:21  <ProZone> <V453000> and then connect the ends you have
23:08:39  <ProZone> <V453000> 4 4 4
23:09:15  <ProZone> <V453000> this is where I usually start
23:09:45  <ProZone> <V453000> you can do that with only 1 bridge/tunnel
23:10:07  <ProZone> <V453000> lets make this 3 times
23:10:21  <ProZone> <V453000> orientation doesnt matter
23:10:55  <ProZone> <V453000> and now just getting stuff out
23:11:05  <ProZone> <V453000> a good strategy is to get one thing to the side
23:11:32  <ProZone> <V453000> see?
23:11:34  <ProZone> <V453000> :)
23:11:46  <ProZone> <Dom> :)
23:11:48  <ProZone> <Dom> thanks
23:14:23  <ProZone> <V453000> yw
23:17:33  <ProZone> <V453000> right
23:17:43  <ProZone> <Dom> o_O
23:17:46  <ProZone> <Dom> plan additions?
23:17:52  <ProZone> <V453000> ?
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23:18:02  <ProZone> <Dom> the maglev part near the plan
23:18:05  <ProZone> <V453000> no that is just the wtf under which this game is going to work
23:18:15  <ProZone> <Dom> ok  xD
23:19:01  <ProZone> <V453000> 140 orders is only cargoes I think
23:19:09  <ProZone> <V453000> that means we have ~100 for SL management
23:19:27  <ProZone> <Dom> ..
23:19:34  <ProZone> <V453000> SL every 100 tiles should be enough
23:19:38  <ProZone> <Dom> ok
23:19:57  <ProZone> <V453000> im just wondering how to make the waypoints now
23:20:07  <ProZone> <V453000> as we need to place all orders in the start if possible
23:22:49  <ProZone> <V453000> hm
23:23:11  <ProZone> <V453000> nah dont measure it
23:23:17  <ProZone> <V453000> it will have to be moved around with later on anyway
23:23:21  <ProZone> <Dom> ok
23:23:35  <ProZone> <V453000> the waypoints are like a group of 3
23:23:41  <ProZone> <V453000> and one is elsewhere
23:23:43  <ProZone> <V453000> like
23:23:59  <ProZone> <V453000> like that
23:24:22  <ProZone> <V453000> the penalty makes sure trains going to the separate waypoint split to SL if they can
23:24:31  <ProZone> <V453000> other 3 groups stay on ML
23:24:54  <ProZone> <Dom> but each sl will contain different cargos?
23:25:08  <ProZone> <V453000> yes this SL is for the cargo of the waypoint
23:25:20  <ProZone> <V453000> as I have the 4 waypoints in a set, each is different cargo
23:27:18  <ProZone> <V453000> does that make any sense?
23:27:30  <ProZone> <Dom> kind of
23:27:46  <ProZone> <Dom> well that means each sl has its own and only this one cargo?
23:28:04  <ProZone> <V453000> it is probably possible to mix two
23:28:14  <ProZone> <V453000> but that doesnt matter now
23:28:24  <ProZone> <V453000> the point is, how to position waypoints on ML now
23:29:07  <ProZone> <V453000> hm
23:29:35  <ProZone> <V453000> point is secondary trains must never want to go to SL
23:29:41  <ProZone> <V453000> so they also n eed a waypoint
23:30:08  <ProZone> <Dom> that means an extra wp for goods?
23:30:23  <ProZone> <V453000> not just one
23:30:25  <ProZone> <V453000> many
23:30:44  <ProZone> <V453000> making that is probably not a good idea, the wp could be joined with some cargoes and switch around
23:32:58  <ProZone> <V453000> what we could do is define that Cargo 4 wont have SL in this set
23:33:00  <ProZone> <V453000> for example
23:33:06  <ProZone> <V453000> or even 3 and 4 wont have
23:33:13  <ProZone> <V453000> set 1, end. next
23:33:24  <ProZone> <V453000> so in this set goods tak waypoint for cargo 3 or 4
23:33:27  <ProZone> <V453000> and in the next set of 1 or 2
23:33:29  <ProZone> <V453000> swap swap
23:33:43  <ProZone> <Dom> alsong as they wont get lost
23:34:14  <ProZone> <V453000> well even if they split to SL it is actually not the worst thing in the world
23:34:17  <ProZone> <V453000> they wont go to primary stations anyway
23:34:31  <ProZone> <V453000> they will just go through the Sl
23:34:37  <ProZone> <V453000> which is weird but doesnt break things
23:34:44  <ProZone> <V453000> can be gotten rid of, though
23:36:26  <ProZone> <V453000> 80 tiles per SL cluster = 5 SL clusters
23:36:37  <ProZone> <V453000> and each SL cluster can do 3 cargoes max
23:36:51  <ProZone> <Dom> ok
23:37:09  <ProZone> <V453000> if that pattern is kept, goods can always use the 4th cargo waypoint to stay on ML
23:37:20  <ProZone> <V453000> and we get maximum of 30 SLs in total, which should be way more than enough
23:37:46  <ProZone> <V453000> lets do 100 tiles -> 4 SLs to fit the numbers better though
23:38:25  <ProZone> <V453000> thats good
23:39:19  <ProZone> <V453000> oh you are measuring it exactly :D no need for that
23:39:29  <ProZone> <Dom> :D
23:40:02  <ProZone> <V453000> right
23:40:04  <ProZone> <V453000> thats fine
23:40:12  <ProZone> <V453000> now we need to name the waypoints
23:40:20  <ProZone> <V453000> WP S/N Grain 1
23:41:15  <ProZone> <V453000> actually
23:41:51  <ProZone> <V453000> right
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23:44:41  <ProZone> <V453000> your things are N btw
23:44:47  <ProZone> <V453000> S/N was S or N :d
23:44:53  <ProZone> <V453000> sorry
23:45:15  <ProZone> <Dom> i though S/N meant S to N
23:45:17  <ProZone> <Dom> :D
23:46:03  <ProZone> <V453000> also pls use Copper Ore not just ore
23:46:05  <ProZone> <V453000> there are 2 ores
23:46:15  <ProZone> <V453000> the other one is in the other direction, but just for the order
23:46:21  <ProZone> <V453000> also, Livestock in full name is nicer :)
23:46:29  <ProZone> <Dom> hm
23:46:35  <ProZone> <Dom> i thought my ore was iron
23:46:41  <ProZone> <V453000> it is
23:46:44  <ProZone> <V453000> yeah
23:46:51  <ProZone> <V453000> you get the point :)
23:47:01  <ProZone> <Dom> :)
23:47:36  <ProZone> <V453000> good
23:47:50  <ProZone> <V453000> now we need to write down which of the 4 cant have a split at each sector
23:48:17  <ProZone> <Dom> ?
23:48:55  <ProZone> <V453000> that is for the goods
23:48:58  <ProZone> <V453000> X are goods waypoints
23:50:51  <ProZone> <Dom> do the goods trains need to change all the wp's trough? beucause i think it would be easier if just at the first the use for example copper ore WP until the Copper SL and then use another one?
23:51:05  <ProZone> <V453000> they need all of them
23:51:13  <ProZone> <V453000> well one in each set
23:51:15  <ProZone> <Dom> ok
23:51:17  <ProZone> <V453000> you will see how it works
23:51:52  <ProZone> <Dom> have you actually build this concept in single player?
23:52:02  <ProZone> <V453000> not this
23:52:09  <ProZone> <Dom> something similar
23:52:11  <ProZone> <V453000> at all in fact
23:53:01  <ProZone> <V453000> this is probably going to be close to fit into 255 orders
23:53:12  <ProZone> <Dom> 255 is max?
23:53:18  <ProZone> <V453000> yes
23:53:37  <ProZone> <Dom> i dont think that the creators of this game ever thought about using 255 orders :D
23:53:59  <ProZone> <V453000> probably especially not this way :)
23:54:13  <ProZone> <V453000> this is basically just gigantic universal wagon abuse
23:56:41  <ProZone> <V453000> this is the most basic chain of orders
23:56:59  <ProZone> <Dom> yeah wohtout conditionals
23:56:59  <ProZone> <V453000> train goes around and refits like crazy
23:57:02  <ProZone> <Dom> :D
23:57:33  <ProZone> <V453000> hm this is turning into a lot bigger wtf than I thought
23:57:43  <ProZone> <V453000> when a train comes full from a SL
23:57:53  <ProZone> <V453000> it must take X path
23:57:56  <ProZone> <V453000> not copper ore path anymore
23:58:15  <ProZone> <V453000> k we will need to figure that out without X paths
23:58:30  <ProZone> <V453000> straight going to drop must be possible
23:58:32  <ProZone> <Dom> why cant the use the cooper wps anymore?
23:58:42  <ProZone> <Dom> if each sl is one cargo?
23:58:46  <ProZone> <V453000> no
23:58:53  <ProZone> <V453000> if you are full you dont want to split in a copper SL
23:58:55  <ProZone> <V453000> you want to go drop
23:58:59  <ProZone> <Dom> yes
23:59:10  <ProZone> <V453000> so you cant use copper waypoints which are for splitting in copper SLs?
23:59:21  <ProZone> <Dom> no
23:59:33  <ProZone> <Dom> but how many copper sls are there gonna be?
23:59:39  <ProZone> <V453000> 4 max?
23:59:45  <ProZone> <Dom> ok
23:59:55  <ProZone> <V453000> 3 or 4 max depending if X prohibits SL, probably not
23:59:57  <ProZone> <V453000> max 4

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