Log for on 12th December 2012:
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00:08:01  <LoPo> !password
00:08:01  <ProZone> LoPo: slates
00:08:17  <ProZone> *** Game still paused (number of players)
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00:08:18  <ProZone> *** LoPo joined the game
00:10:26  <ProZone> *** V453000 joined the game
00:10:28  <ProZone> <LoPo> omg
00:10:34  <ProZone> <LoPo> you found me :P
00:10:49  <ProZone> <V453000> :)
00:11:07  <ProZone> <V453000> im drawing new wagons though so dont expect much from me :P
00:11:14  <ProZone> <LoPo> nps
00:11:43  <ProZone> <LoPo> ill try to finish my article this week, show it one more time and then publish
00:12:01  <ProZone> <V453000> :)
00:12:01  <ProZone> <LoPo> also i have one quetion about your transfer
00:12:27  <ProZone> <LoPo> in principle it is based on a flickering gate right?
00:12:34  <ProZone> <V453000> what?
00:12:44  <ProZone> <LoPo> your station
00:13:07  <ProZone> <LoPo> well not flickering gate, but a flickering singal
00:13:09  <ProZone> <V453000> since when does a not gate flicker in this configuration
00:13:21  <ProZone> <LoPo> look left of your station
00:13:23  <ProZone> <V453000> just normal release on green
00:13:53  <ProZone> <LoPo> but it is looped
00:14:19  <ProZone> <LoPo> through the station
00:14:27  <ProZone> <LoPo> well doesnt realy matter i think
00:14:30  <ProZone> <V453000> well yeah I know that but idk if that is the same case really
00:14:56  <ProZone> <LoPo> but do you think it will also work with faster logic trains?
00:15:14  <ProZone> <V453000> I dont see why wouldnt it
00:15:26  <ProZone> <LoPo> k
00:15:28  <ProZone> <V453000> you cant rlease another train to the station because there are trains inside
00:15:48  <ProZone> <V453000> hm
00:16:02  <ProZone> <V453000> ah yes
00:16:04  <ProZone> <V453000> it should work
00:16:12  <ProZone> <V453000> because it resets just after the unloading train leaves
00:16:20  <ProZone> <LoPo> ye
00:16:22  <ProZone> <V453000> which is always sooner than the loaded train left
00:16:40  <ProZone> <V453000> so I think it should work with any trains
00:16:43  <ProZone> <LoPo> they occupy the platforms/green signal
00:16:45  <ProZone> <V453000> but the slow gate is good
00:16:52  <ProZone> <LoPo> k
00:17:02  <ProZone> <V453000> a delay would be better, but slow gate does a similar thing
00:17:20  <ProZone> <V453000> when both conditions are ok (both loading and unloading trains are ready in bays), it waits a little while and then releases them
00:17:27  <ProZone> <V453000> makes almost sure both trains go from 0kmh
00:17:57  <ProZone> <V453000> almost because it depends on the position of the not gate... but generally it takes some time for them to trigger
00:18:11  <ProZone> <V453000> fast gate + delay is one mechanism to add, but it is a lot more precise
00:20:53  <ProZone> <LoPo> yeah
00:21:19  <ProZone> <V453000> btw I will have more animals on flatbeds :P
00:21:33  <ProZone> <V453000> not as WTF as the current ones probably, but still
00:22:00  <ProZone> <LoPo> ? is 48 items to low?
00:22:06  <ProZone> <LoPo> or to high?
00:22:16  <ProZone> <V453000> I mean new wagons
00:22:22  <ProZone> <V453000> not more cargo on the current ones
00:22:28  <ProZone> <LoPo> oky
00:23:02  <ProZone> <V453000> slightly minecraft inspired :)
00:23:12  <ProZone> <LoPo> lol :P
00:48:37  <ProZone> <LoPo> V453000: you still there
00:50:21  <ProZone> <V453000> ofc
00:50:43  <ProZone> <LoPo> because there was another thing i wanted to ask
00:50:57  <ProZone> <LoPo> today i was building a terminus station
00:51:19  <ProZone> <LoPo> but to get trains inside i needed a PF trap
00:51:25  <ProZone> <LoPo> but that was part of the idea
00:51:27  <ProZone> <LoPo> but
00:51:45  <ProZone> <LoPo> then i builded a depot on the end and trains started to enter anyway
00:51:59  <ProZone> <LoPo> i thought trains "hate" depots"
00:52:05  <ProZone> <V453000> ?
00:52:08  <ProZone> <V453000> depot is just a path
00:52:12  <ProZone> <LoPo> but now they saw it as a possible path
00:52:15  <ProZone> <V453000> and in fact lost trains LOVE depots
00:52:21  <ProZone> <V453000> yes depot is a path
00:52:23  <ProZone> <V453000> only a high penalty
00:52:27  <ProZone> <LoPo> oky
00:52:39  <ProZone> <V453000> there is even the penalty setting somewhere in the config
00:52:44  <ProZone> <LoPo> like station high or higher?
00:52:52  <ProZone> <LoPo> yeah i have seen taht
00:52:55  <ProZone> <V453000> depends how you set it, but I think higher by default
00:53:13  <ProZone> <LoPo> but i thought depots would be more like oel ;s
00:53:23  <V453000> !rcon set yapf.rail_depot_reverse_penalty
00:53:23  <ProZone> V453000: Current value for 'yapf.rail_depot_reverse_penalty' is: '5000' (min: 0, max: 1000000)
00:53:30  <V453000> yeah 5000 is a lot
00:53:34  <ProZone> <LoPo> but its the opposite
00:53:38  <ProZone> <V453000> no not at all
00:53:41  <ProZone> <V453000> it is just a path
00:53:51  <ProZone> <LoPo> k
00:53:54  <ProZone> <LoPo> funny
00:54:05  <V453000> !rcon set yapf.rail_station_penalty
00:54:05  <ProZone> V453000: Current value for 'yapf.rail_station_penalty' is: '3000' (min: 0, max: 1000000)
00:54:16  <V453000> 5000 vs 3000 here
00:54:20  <ProZone> <LoPo> "cyculair" path on one tile :)
00:54:22  <V453000> but I am not sure how do multiple station tiles work
00:55:48  <ProZone> <V453000> hm
00:55:58  <ProZone> <V453000> interesting
00:56:04  <ProZone> <V453000> 2 stations should be 6000 total
00:56:10  <ProZone> <V453000> yet they prefer the station over 5000 depot
00:56:54  <ProZone> <V453000> 3rd station makes the difference here
00:57:02  <ProZone> <V453000> also, each station tile counts as one
00:57:36  <ProZone> <V453000> but ye, the general penalty doesnt really matter, path/eol does :)
00:59:59  <ProZone> <LoPo> so much stacking :S
01:00:14  <ProZone> <LoPo> what was the general idea of this PZ anyway?
01:00:28  <ProZone> <LoPo> small train srnw refit? :P
01:01:14  <ProZone> <V453000> I just wanted to make 8 cargo srnw with refit
01:01:38  <ProZone> <V453000> plus the secondary refit
01:01:58  <ProZone> <V453000> I tried the concept on stable so I figured it would be suitable to use here
01:02:00  <ProZone> <LoPo> what would be nicer is refit on demand at primaries ;p
01:02:22  <ProZone> <LoPo> well now it cycles, which is almost similair
01:02:52  <ProZone> <V453000> yeah ... well that is a bit taken care of by successful unload of secondary -> try that cargo again
01:03:07  <ProZone> <LoPo> true
01:03:17  <ProZone> <LoPo> but the feetback is much slower
01:03:28  <ProZone> <V453000> it works pretty well id say, not too many trains overflow
01:03:34  <ProZone> <V453000> some do, but not terrible amounts
01:03:44  <ProZone> <LoPo> :)
01:04:39  <ProZone> <V453000> it is a sort of overflow which was in 199 too pretty much
01:04:57  <ProZone> <LoPo> jep
01:04:59  <ProZone> <V453000> X rings (here refit rings), and when train loads there successfully, it tried again
01:05:13  <ProZone> <LoPo> although I wasnt there back then ;p
01:05:20  <ProZone> <V453000> here it is just with lesser effect and randomized by shared goods pickups
01:05:43  <ProZone> <V453000> you should still know the important games if not majority of the "modern" archive :P
01:05:57  <ProZone> <LoPo> i know 199 ;)
01:05:59  <ProZone> <LoPo> dont worry
01:06:02  <ProZone> <V453000> I know
01:06:25  <ProZone> <V453000> it is kind of hard not to esp if it even is mentioned in the srnw wiki page
01:06:40  <ProZone> <LoPo> but i like 180 more
01:06:51  <ProZone> <V453000> it is just a different idea
01:07:19  <ProZone> <V453000> in general 180 is probably more functional due to the effective dealing with train waves from any station
01:07:29  <ProZone> <V453000> splitting it into the 2 directions is pretty effective
01:07:55  <ProZone> <LoPo> well, if you load the game right now there are some mjor jams even
01:08:01  <ProZone> <V453000> 199 is just based on being the cycle of "loaded? try again"
01:08:01  <ProZone> <LoPo> but yes
01:08:12  <ProZone> <V453000> of course there are because openttd has changed
01:08:15  <ProZone> <LoPo> the splitting is indeed very smari
01:08:25  <ProZone> <LoPo> smart*
01:08:27  <ProZone> <V453000> most old games will have serious jams
01:08:33  <ProZone> <V453000> simply because acceleration is a lot slower
01:08:41  <ProZone> <V453000> pzg13 is prime example
01:11:07  <ProZone> <V453000> not to mention the FUCKING FUCKED PBS change which makes one of the SL splits fail
01:11:21  <ProZone> <V453000> one of the most retarded changes in openttd ever
01:11:30  <ProZone> <LoPo> ? :P
01:11:36  <ProZone> <LoPo> what changed then?
01:11:50  <ProZone> <LoPo> thats in PZ09?
01:11:57  <ProZone> <LoPo> 13*
01:12:03  <ProZone> <V453000> that rear of PBS is a safe waiting spot for PBZ
01:12:03  <ProZone> <V453000> PBS
01:12:09  <ProZone> <V453000> which means that PBS bounces into its rear
01:12:17  <ProZone> <LoPo> ah
01:12:20  <ProZone> <V453000> split 06 in psg180 obviously breaks because of it
01:12:40  <ProZone> <LoPo> well, its much slower now ye
01:12:58  <ProZone> <LoPo> still "works", but not as intended i guess
01:13:08  <ProZone> <V453000> trains should really try not to go in the back of PBS ever if possible, just like block signals
01:13:10  <ProZone> <V453000> yeah
01:13:36  <ProZone> <V453000> and I dont think it was actually a fix to anything
01:13:39  <ProZone> <LoPo> on the "other" hand it now gives other possibilities
01:13:41  <ProZone> <V453000> PBS worked better before that
01:13:47  <ProZone> <LoPo> oky
01:14:13  <ProZone> <V453000> the second most dumb thing was the train flipping disable
01:14:21  <ProZone> <V453000> but NUTS has it now so ye, fuck them
01:14:31  <ProZone> <LoPo> flipping?
01:14:37  <ProZone> <V453000> ctrl clicking engines in depot
01:14:47  <ProZone> <LoPo> not possible anymore with other sets?
01:14:50  <ProZone> <V453000> you could do it for any engine in any newGRf formerly
01:14:53  <ProZone> <LoPo> lol!
01:15:03  <ProZone> <LoPo> thats a bigg fail indeed ...
01:15:17  <ProZone> <LoPo> why did they do that, anyways?
01:15:27  <ProZone> <LoPo> did it matter in some sort?
01:15:34  <ProZone> <V453000> but because ONE idiot managed to crash the game with some ONE wagon when reversing it by having some sort of broken newGRF or stuff, it was disabled for all newGRFs by defult
01:15:48  <ProZone> <LoPo> ...
01:15:59  <ProZone> <V453000> you have to explicitly allow it by the newGRF now
01:16:09  <ProZone> <V453000> which NUTS does, also ogfx+ trains and original engines ofc
01:16:17  <ProZone> <V453000> other sets dont
01:16:19  <ProZone> <LoPo> oky
01:16:27  <ProZone> <LoPo> lame tbh ;\
01:16:38  <ProZone> <V453000> completely breaks GEC91 in ukrs
01:17:08  <ProZone> <V453000> the general saying of the devs was "yeah authors will just fix their newGRFs"
01:17:18  <ProZone> <V453000> but for example Pikka just told me he doesnt support UKRS anymore
01:17:20  <ProZone> <V453000> ..
01:17:30  <ProZone> <V453000> it is possible to make a fixing 3rd party override newGRF
01:17:32  <ProZone> <LoPo> why not an option for all train sets then?
01:17:46  <ProZone> <LoPo> to enable it
01:17:49  <ProZone> <V453000> but I would need engine IDs from that and I am not decoding the newGRF to get those
01:17:52  <ProZone> <V453000> because no
01:17:56  <ProZone> <V453000> because fuck you users
01:18:02  <ProZone> <LoPo> lol
01:18:09  <ProZone> <LoPo> relax :P dont get mad
01:18:11  <ProZone> <V453000> and fuck us because there are always retards who report shit
01:18:22  <ProZone> <V453000> im not mad, I was mad about it the time ago, now shit happens
01:18:37  <ProZone> <LoPo> :)
01:18:52  <ProZone> <V453000> as I said, my train set doesnt care about it, and I dont really play wihout NUTS anymore
01:19:28  <ProZone> <LoPo> well, i like the german train set allot aswell :)
01:19:39  <ProZone> <V453000> for PS style games, yes
01:19:42  <ProZone> <V453000> DB set and UKRS are great
01:20:13  <ProZone> <LoPo> but for testing and weird idea games, i use nuts
01:20:19  <ProZone> <V453000> for casual Stable-like games, DB set is pretty awful, and UKRS - despite being the best set if I ignore NUTS, the difference between it and NUTS is still so huge that I dont really play even with UKRS anymore
01:21:06  <ProZone> <V453000> the general utility of cargo classes, and all the way how nuts works is just so comfortable for me, not to mention that nothing is more fun than playing with newly drawn trains
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01:21:54  <ProZone> <V453000> for the classic PS games you can really have almost any newGRF
01:22:12  <ProZone> <V453000> you can usually find at least one train which works +-ok
01:22:18  <ProZone> <LoPo> "not to mention that nothing is more fun than playing with _you own_ newly drawn trains"
01:22:20  <ProZone> <LoPo> :P
01:22:38  <ProZone> <V453000> well no one else updates any train set so often :P
01:22:45  <ProZone> <LoPo> true
01:22:52  <ProZone> <V453000> I dont even know if any train set is actively under development
01:22:59  <ProZone> <V453000> probably yes but a lot slower than nuts
01:23:37  <ProZone> <LoPo> k time for bed....
01:23:37  <ProZone> <V453000> and if you spend weeks drawing some trains, it is just great to play with them :P
01:23:37  <ProZone> <V453000> ye
01:23:37  <ProZone> <V453000> gnight
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01:23:49  <LoPo> see you
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20:54:50  <Dom_> !password
20:54:51  <ProZone> Dom_: bested
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