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Log for #openttdcoop.stable on 5th January 2014:
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00:06:34  <coopserver> *** Game paused (connecting clients)
00:06:40  <coopserver> *** Slicey has joined
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00:06:59  <coopserver> <Cameron> well, look who's back
00:07:10  <coopserver> <Slicey> just checking in :)
00:07:17  <coopserver> <Cameron> ohh
00:07:58  <coopserver> *** Slicey has left the game (Leaving)
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00:53:07  <coopserver> *** TC_X has started a new company #6
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01:16:55  <coopserver> *** tyteen4a03 #1 has joined
01:16:55  <coopserver> *** tyteen4a03 #1 has started a new company #7
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01:30:02  <phatmatt> are we still on the happy new year map?
01:30:08  <coopserver> <Cameron> no
01:30:11  <phatmatt> orly
01:30:16  <coopserver> <tyteen4a03> oh, which IRC channel is this?
01:30:22  <coopserver> <Cameron> new map, sub tropic
01:30:25  <phatmatt> #openttdcoop.stable
01:30:31  <coopserver> <tyteen4a03> also somebody go on public server, bored there :P
01:30:31  <phatmatt> Cameron: thanks
01:30:42  *** tyteen4a03 has joined #openttdcoop.stable
01:30:44  <phatmatt> tyteen4a030923423423: that'll pick up in a few hours
01:30:56  <tyteen4a03> phatmatt, hopefully
01:31:01  <coopserver> <Cameron>  won't :OP
01:32:21  <tyteen4a03> now to wait for my little network to gain revenue...
01:32:58  <coopserver> *** Game paused (connecting clients)
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01:34:12  <coopserver> <phatmatt> no more topical-heightmap maps, huh
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01:36:23  <coopserver> <Maxpm> Hi everyone.
01:36:33  <coopserver> <phatmatt> hey
01:36:36  <coopserver> <TC_X> hi
01:37:01  <tyteen4a03> hi
01:40:17  <coopserver> <Maxpm> Stupid question: How do I rotate a station?
01:40:21  <coopserver> <tyteen4a03> you can't
01:40:25  <coopserver> <Maxpm> Never mind.  Found it.
01:40:29  <coopserver> <tyteen4a03> you need to choose the orientation at the start
01:40:34  <coopserver> <Maxpm> Yeah, I just noticed.
01:44:12  <coopserver> <tyteen4a03> there are no lumber mills... rich guys, mind prospecting some? :)
01:44:37  <coopserver> <TC_X> factorys?
01:44:44  <coopserver> <JoeSchmoe> wood -> factory
01:44:44  <coopserver> <tyteen4a03> yeah, for factories
01:44:45  <coopserver> *** Cameron has left the game (general timeout)
01:46:55  <coopserver> *** phatmatt has started a new company #8
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01:48:26  <coopserver> <phatmatt> one company per person, tyteen4a03
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01:49:26  <tyteen4a03> guess this is more competitive than coop
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02:31:11  <coopserver> <Maxpm> Is there a way to hide trees?
02:31:23  <coopserver> <JoeSchmoe> yes
02:31:32  <coopserver> <JoeSchmoe> settings button
02:31:33  <tyteen4a03> X
02:31:42  <coopserver> <Maxpm> Thanks.
02:31:43  <coopserver> <JoeSchmoe> transparency options
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02:31:58  <tyteen4a03> for one-time toggle, press X
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02:48:31  <coopserver> <Maxpm> What places accept goods?  I have a station in a city, but it doesn't look like it wants them.
02:48:39  <coopserver> <tyteen4a03> a growing city
02:48:49  <coopserver> <Maxpm> And growing cities need passengers and mail, I guess?
02:48:50  <coopserver> <tyteen4a03> so prerequistice: food and water
02:48:55  <coopserver> <Maxpm> Oh, okay.
02:49:04  <coopserver> <tyteen4a03> pax and mail exists in all cities
02:56:23  <coopserver> <Maxpm> Is it bad practice to build a bridge to someone else's continent?  I don't have any food processing plants, and this is the only viable way to get one.
02:56:29  <coopserver> *** Game paused (connecting clients)
02:56:31  <coopserver> <tyteen4a03> nah
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02:56:40  <coopserver> <phatmatt> try to avoid it if you can
02:56:58  <coopserver> <Maxpm> I don't really think I can.
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02:57:08  <coopserver> <TC_X> you could just fund a food processing plant
02:57:14  <coopserver> <phatmatt> beg happy to buy one for you.
02:57:24  <coopserver> <Maxpm> How much does funding one cost?
02:57:34  <coopserver> <phatmatt> 603,515 gbp
02:57:39  <coopserver> <Maxpm> Ouch.
02:57:41  <coopserver> <phatmatt> look at the fund new industry iwndow
02:57:45  <coopserver> <phatmatt> *window
02:57:49  <coopserver> <TC_X> 1.2 mil USD
02:57:50  <coopserver> <tyteen4a03> so yeah... :P
02:58:18  <coopserver> <JoeSchmoe> put a sign where you want one, and happy or i will fund one
02:58:32  <coopserver> <Maxpm> Okay.
02:58:42  <coopserver> <tyteen4a03> can I request a lumber mill too?
02:58:53  <coopserver> <tyteen4a03> there are none in this game
02:59:05  <coopserver> *** happy tran  sport has left the game (Leaving)
02:59:27  <coopserver> <JoeSchmoe> you don't need a lumber mill
02:59:38  <coopserver> <tyteen4a03> how so?
02:59:44  <coopserver> <TC_X> -_-
03:00:00  <coopserver> <tyteen4a03> bear in mind I'm new to actually playing openttd :)
03:00:14  <coopserver> <TC_X> that much is obvious, not in a bad way but...
03:00:18  <coopserver> <Maxpm> Much appreciated.
03:00:43  <coopserver> <phatmatt> you can't need a lumber mill because it's a primary industry
03:00:48  <coopserver> <phatmatt> just feed your factory with something else
03:00:55  <coopserver> <JoeSchmoe> exactly
03:00:57  <coopserver> <phatmatt> ie, rubber or copper ore
03:01:05  <coopserver> <tyteen4a03> oh, my factory can survive without all 3?
03:01:11  <coopserver> <JoeSchmoe> yes
03:01:13  <coopserver> <tyteen4a03> ah
03:01:14  <coopserver> <phatmatt> press and hold on the industry toolbar button and pick "industry chains"
03:01:20  <coopserver> <TC_X> there is a food processing plant on your island as well
03:01:22  <coopserver> <phatmatt> then select "factory" at the bottom bit
03:01:39  <coopserver> <tyteen4a03> I kind of interpreted that chart as "all are needed for this to happen"
03:01:43  <coopserver> <TC_X> nope
03:01:44  <coopserver> <TC_X> also
03:01:48  <coopserver> <TC_X> your stations, super close to each other
03:01:50  <coopserver> <JoeSchmoe> nope only one needed
03:01:55  <coopserver> <TC_X> you want some more distance between your drops and your supplying industries
03:02:41  <coopserver> <tyteen4a03> I could get rid of the rubber bit near the factory but... they're already built
03:03:13  <coopserver> <TC_X> for instance
03:03:24  <coopserver> <TC_X> your copper mill at Porto Velho
03:03:41  <coopserver> <TC_X> would be a prime candidate to take to your Sao Pedro da Aledia Factory
03:04:03  <coopserver> <TC_X> and there is additional copper and rubber on that path you can link in
03:04:20  <coopserver> <TC_X> look one island down and right of yours to see mine, to get an idea
03:04:27  <coopserver> <TC_X> my main factory drop is at the far bottom/right of my island
03:04:43  <coopserver> <tyteen4a03> can't afford the system yet
03:04:58  <coopserver> <TC_X> what is your loan at?
03:05:05  <coopserver> <tyteen4a03> 940000
03:05:12  <coopserver> <Maxpm> ._.
03:05:16  <coopserver> <tyteen4a03> I'm not good at competitive :)
03:05:18  <coopserver> <TC_X> what did you spend so much on, just those stations?
03:05:20  <coopserver> <TC_X> :)
03:05:39  <coopserver> <tyteen4a03> accidental overterraforming
03:05:39  <coopserver> <TC_X> it is not that you are not good at competitive, for brutal honesty you don't have the right concept down yet for moneymaker
03:05:55  <coopserver> <TC_X> you want your initial spend and loan to be a longish ~200 tile haul from primary to drop
03:05:59  <coopserver> <TC_X> something like copper or oil
03:06:10  <coopserver> <TC_X> or at the very least, longer than what you have there
03:06:25  <coopserver> <TC_X> the bottom right of my island to the top left of my island
03:06:28  <coopserver> <TC_X> was my first "moneymaker"
03:06:44  <coopserver> <tyteen4a03> are you suggesting I should start over?
03:06:59  <coopserver> <TC_X> you certainly could, it will probably be dreadful trying to dig out from where you are now, you don't necessarily h ave to
03:07:14  <coopserver> <TC_X> try to build a two track line from Sao Pedro to
03:07:18  <coopserver> <tyteen4a03> I have about 12 idle hours to spend :)
03:07:19  <coopserver> <TC_X> Porto Velho
03:07:28  <coopserver> <TC_X> if you run out of money, i'd probably start over, yes
03:07:39  <coopserver> <tyteen4a03> my original plan is to sleep and repay loan with autoclick
03:07:44  <coopserver> <TC_X> your current setup just doesn't have  a good long haul distance
03:08:40  <tyteen4a03> I shall sleep for a few hours and see if the debt is almost all gone by then
03:09:08  <coopserver> <tyteen4a03> if not, I'll just start over
03:09:53  <coopserver> <TC_X> fair enough
03:10:04  <coopserver> <TC_X> check out Moneymaker wiki article
03:10:07  <coopserver> <TC_X> for future reference
03:13:28  <coopserver> *** Anson has joined company #1
03:13:33  <coopserver> <TC_X> hello Anson
03:13:41  <coopserver> <Maxpm> Hi again, Anson.
03:14:46  <coopserver> <Maxpm> ._.
03:14:56  <coopserver> <Maxpm> What was that for?
03:14:59  <coopserver> <TC_X> ?
03:15:32  <coopserver> <Maxpm> I'm already on a decent start.
03:16:26  <coopserver> <Maxpm> But thanks.  :P
03:18:19  <coopserver> <TC_X> if a town hates you so much that trees and bribes do nothing
03:18:21  <coopserver> <TC_X> really nothing to do eh?
03:18:34  <coopserver> <Maxpm> Jeez, what did you do to them?
03:18:44  <coopserver> <TC_X> bought tiles all around them, bulldozed their land
03:18:51  <coopserver> <TC_X> put a preemptive drop for goods station in
03:18:56  <coopserver> <Anson> try building a station first before you terraform and build tracks
03:18:59  <coopserver> <TC_X> and then tried to build buses and was denied after planting thousands of trees ;)
03:19:10  <coopserver> <TC_X> well, i built the station for goods which would ultimately be the drop
03:19:14  <coopserver> <TC_X> and planned to bus it up to make it grow but
03:19:17  <coopserver> <TC_X> womp womp -_-
03:19:42  <coopserver> <Anson> and only build stations that you will use ... authority rating goes down when you have unserviced stations, and goes up when you have serviced stations
03:19:55  <coopserver> <TC_X> ah, so that is the problem :|
03:20:07  <coopserver> <TC_X> i should have built the bus stations first and just carved out the land i would use for my station
03:31:05  <coopserver> <Maxpm> It doesn't look like one of my fruit plantations is producing any fruit.  Why might that be?
03:31:19  <coopserver> <JoeSchmoe> which station?
03:31:24  <coopserver> <Maxpm> Juiz de Fora Valley.
03:31:37  <coopserver> <Anson> forgot to refit the train ?
03:31:49  <coopserver> <JoeSchmoe> yup
03:31:55  <coopserver> <JoeSchmoe> thats the prob
03:31:56  <coopserver> <Anson> that's the usual reason when my trains don't load ...
03:32:04  <coopserver> <Maxpm> I don't think so.  I'm using flatbeds, which, according to the depot descriptions, carry fruit...
03:32:19  <coopserver> <TC_X> but they need to be refit first
03:32:24  <coopserver> <JoeSchmoe> the trains that were there were goods trains
03:32:25  <coopserver> <Maxpm> Aah, you're right.
03:32:35  <coopserver> <Anson> easily happens when using a filter to select wagons, and then the wagon is bought with a default cargo and not the filtered cargo
03:32:44  <coopserver> <Maxpm> Thanks.
03:38:59  *** Firestar has joined #openttdcoop.stable
03:39:04  <Firestar> hai
03:40:53  <coopserver> *** Game paused (connecting clients)
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03:41:01  <coopserver> <Firestar> hai
03:41:06  <coopserver> <phatmatt> 2U2
03:44:15  <coopserver> <Maxpm> Why do industries say stuff like "67% transported" when my trains are always waiting around for their production?
03:44:43  <coopserver> <Firestar> because the percentage tells you how a factory thinks of your company
03:44:46  <coopserver> <JoeSchmoe> all industry don't ship everything they make
03:51:25  <coopserver> <Maxpm> So what's with all the custom trains and rails?
03:52:00  <coopserver> <Anson> PURR are universal rails ... any traintype can use them
03:52:23  <coopserver> <Maxpm> That seems kind of overpowered.
03:52:33  <coopserver> <Anson> and for some train types, the color makes a difference (as can be seen in the description of MEOW trains in the buy menu)
03:53:31  <coopserver> <Anson> without universal rails, you would have to build all tracks again when you change from rail to mono and to maglev
03:54:23  <coopserver> <Anson> this server is mostly about building (big) networks, not about destroying rails and rebuilding them when switching railtypes
03:54:32  <coopserver> <Maxpm> I guess.
03:54:42  <coopserver> <TC_X> PURR doesn't become particularly useful anyway until late game
03:54:46  <coopserver> <TC_X> you can run electric pretty much forever anyway
03:54:48  <coopserver> <JoeSchmoe> brb
03:54:54  <coopserver> <TC_X> maglev and mono get nerfs to cargo space and loading speed
03:54:58  <coopserver> <TC_X> so it is a tradeoff
03:55:09  <coopserver> <Anson> universal rail is the most expensive railtype
03:55:17  <coopserver> <TC_X> and IIRC maglev has the slowest time to full acceleration
03:56:30  <coopserver> <Anson> trains still behave like normal on their proper railtypes ... they only are allowed to use the universal rails instead of needing to build new tracks all the time
03:57:00  <coopserver> <TC_X> well, for what it's worth I still remember playing the original TTD
03:57:06  <coopserver> <TC_X> have fun upgrading from rail to monorail
03:57:07  <coopserver> <TC_X> and then later to maglev
03:57:08  <coopserver> <TC_X> manually
03:57:27  <coopserver> <Anson> btw : wet trains get a penalty of -30% to speed, power and TE when they don't drive on wet rails
03:58:29  <coopserver> <Anson> yes, and on original TT, mines would have died until you were done converting everything
03:58:39  <coopserver> <TC_X> yes T_T
03:58:58  <coopserver> <TC_X> ah...the bad old days :)
03:59:06  <coopserver> <Anson> to avoid that, people might build lots of direct connections instead of networks
03:59:47  <coopserver> <Anson> I'm not sure, but did the original TT have the ability to place a whole track, or did you need to place every single tile ?
04:00:00  <coopserver> <TC_X> only straight paths drag, at least in TTD
04:00:04  <coopserver> <TC_X> not sure about original TT before TTD
04:00:13  <coopserver> <TC_X> no one way signals in original TT
04:00:14  <coopserver> <TC_X> so what's the point ;)
04:00:23  <coopserver> <TC_X> have fun building a network
04:00:43  <coopserver> <Anson> really nasty, and also a mousebutton killer to build 10000 rail pieces, then delete them, build 10000 monorail, delete them, and build 10000 maglev ...
04:00:53  <coopserver> <TC_X> yes, and to remember how they were connected too
04:00:59  <coopserver> <TC_X> sometimes you would have nasty junctions even in TTD
04:01:03  <coopserver> <TC_X> and rebuilding them perfectly tile for tile
04:01:04  <coopserver> <TC_X> what a pain
04:01:54  <coopserver> <Anson> that's the advantage of the universal rails ... no difference in gameplay, but only much easier to handle by the builder
04:02:17  <coopserver> <TC_X> convert tool is also the biggest godsend ever
04:02:48  <coopserver> <Maxpm> The Logic Engine's face scares me.
04:03:13  <coopserver> <Anson> and the option to let rail, mono and maglev run on the same rails at the same time might look like an overpowred advantage, but what happens when you let slow rail engines and fast maglev drive behind each other ? .-)
04:03:37  <coopserver> <Maxpm> I guess.
04:04:18  <coopserver> <TC_X> yeah
04:04:27  <coopserver> <TC_X> i think calling universal rail OP is really not a good argument
04:05:10  <coopserver> *** Game paused (connecting clients)
04:05:26  <coopserver> *** BiG MeeCh has joined
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04:05:37  <coopserver> <Firestar> hey meech
04:05:43  <coopserver> <BiG MeeCh> yoooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
04:06:08  <coopserver> <Firestar> ey meech ya see the mess im making atm? xD
04:06:45  <coopserver> <BiG MeeCh> I see a shit ton of trains jammed in a hideous loop
04:06:51  <coopserver> <BiG MeeCh> if that is what you mean
04:07:02  <coopserver> <Firestar> thx damn depot -.-
04:07:14  <coopserver> <BiG MeeCh> why is that depot even there??
04:07:24  <coopserver> <Firestar> dont ask me i just joined today
04:07:46  <coopserver> <Anson> someone created the food trains with bad orders :-(
04:07:49  <coopserver> <Anson> fixed now
04:08:01  <coopserver> <BiG MeeCh> I blame V453000
04:08:51  <coopserver> <BiG MeeCh> that fixes things even more
04:08:54  <coopserver> <Maxpm> ._.
04:08:56  <coopserver> <BiG MeeCh> congrats
04:09:04  <coopserver> <TC_X> lol
04:09:19  <coopserver> <TC_X> i hate when that happens ;)
04:10:16  <coopserver> <Anson> whoever had created the food trains sent them to the wrong depots
04:10:52  <coopserver> <phatmatt> cool jam, bro
04:11:11  <coopserver> <Anson> service after loading would work well ... fixed now ... only need to get rid of the few trains that are still on their old routes
04:11:47  <coopserver> <TC_X> so
04:11:56  <coopserver> <TC_X> what happens if you have two factories within station drop distance
04:12:05  <coopserver> <TC_X> but only one pickup station within one factory distance
04:12:21  <coopserver> <TC_X> does the one within range for pickup get the most production if the other factory has produced prior, but has never been used to pickup with?
04:12:48  <coopserver> <TC_X> I created sign !question to give an idea what i'm talking about
04:12:59  <coopserver> <TC_X> i am trying to fund a new factory within the confines of that purchased space
04:13:07  <coopserver> <TC_X> and build a pickup to the left of it
04:13:43  <coopserver> <BiG MeeCh> do you know how to station walk?
04:13:49  <coopserver> <TC_X> yes, but it becomes too spread
04:13:50  <coopserver> <BiG MeeCh> I wouldnt build another factory
04:13:56  <coopserver> <Maxpm> Station walk?
04:13:57  <coopserver> <BiG MeeCh> oh i see
04:14:06  <coopserver> <TC_X> and the problem is that it has to be far south enough of the water
04:14:09  <coopserver> <TC_X> to give room to have an exit merge
04:14:12  <coopserver> <BiG MeeCh> I would move the drop in the middle as much as possible
04:14:30  <coopserver> <Anson> no need to do station walk in ottd ... you can use ctrl-click to build joined and separate stations
04:14:31  <coopserver> <BiG MeeCh> if you build another factory in the middle
04:14:45  <coopserver> <BiG MeeCh> the stuff droped will split 50/50
04:14:55  <coopserver> <TC_X> ah ok
04:14:57  <coopserver> <TC_X> thanks, that makes sense
04:15:01  <coopserver> <BiG MeeCh> if the other area is cached
04:15:06  <coopserver> <TC_X> perhaps I will walk the current station down to the new factory then
04:15:08  <coopserver> <BiG MeeCh> you could de-cache the area
04:15:16  <coopserver> <BiG MeeCh> the factory will die eventually
04:15:29  <coopserver> *** BiG MeeCh has started a new company #9
04:16:12  <coopserver> <BiG MeeCh> or you could do something like that
04:16:16  <coopserver> <BiG MeeCh> station 1 could be drop
04:16:20  <coopserver> <BiG MeeCh> station 2 could be pick
04:16:34  <coopserver> <TC_X> meh
04:16:35  <coopserver> <BiG MeeCh> staiton spread is 12
04:16:39  <coopserver> <TC_X> will do something slightly diff i think
04:16:40  <coopserver> <BiG MeeCh> so i think you owuld be alright
04:16:46  <coopserver> <TC_X> yeah, dunno
04:16:50  <coopserver> <TC_X> sort of weird crappy factory location
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04:17:07  <coopserver> <BiG MeeCh> I think its not too bad
04:17:09  <coopserver> <BiG MeeCh> out of the way
04:17:12  <coopserver> <BiG MeeCh> yet still usable
04:17:32  <coopserver> <BiG MeeCh> and its only a 2x8 factory not a 4x8 factory
04:17:53  <coopserver> <BiG MeeCh> I mean 2x4 not 2x8
04:18:02  <coopserver> <BiG MeeCh> bbiab
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04:24:10  <coopserver> <TC_X> bah, i wish industry funding placement was existent
04:24:13  <coopserver> <TC_X> i.e. placement grid
04:36:14  <coopserver> <Maxpm> Oh dear.
04:36:34  <coopserver> <BiG MeeCh> lmao
04:36:40  <coopserver> <BiG MeeCh> noobs
04:36:53  <coopserver> <Anson> nite to self : avoid alternating tracktypes and rebuilding while trains are not stopped
04:39:00  <coopserver> <Anson> there is a glitch when you delete or add rail pieces in a block that has reserved pathes ... some reserved path may stay even without trains, or others may not be reserved and thus trains go there and then crash
04:39:26  <coopserver> <BiG MeeCh> lame excuse
04:39:51  <coopserver> <BiG MeeCh> :)
04:40:01  <coopserver> <Anson> only a reason, no excuse ... i should have stopped trains to avoid this
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04:44:17  <coopserver> <TC_X> meech, what do you mean by not synched
04:44:43  <coopserver> <BiG MeeCh> not synced means that the rail line length is not equal
04:44:57  <coopserver> <BiG MeeCh> i could join and show you what i mean
04:45:30  <coopserver> <TC_X> hmm
04:45:37  <coopserver> <BiG MeeCh> its still not right
04:45:47  <coopserver> <BiG MeeCh> plus your signsals are pretty bad
04:45:52  <coopserver> <TC_X> ok, i will be back in about 5-10 minutes maybe you can join up and show me what you are talking about ?
04:46:02  <coopserver> <BiG MeeCh> sure
04:46:03  <coopserver> <BiG MeeCh> hb
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04:46:26  <coopserver> <Anson> when you have a double bridge, trains need to enter on the left rail with a diagonal to the right, and exit on the right rail with a diagonal from the left ... or the other way around
04:46:38  <coopserver> <Anson> thus both have the same number of tiles and diagonals
04:47:50  <coopserver> <Anson> reason : mathematical diagonals are sqrt(2) long, and diagonals in ottd are similar although not exatly that length ... but quite different from straight tracks
04:50:18  <coopserver> <Maxpm> What's the tightest curve typically allowed on sideline hubs?
04:50:27  <coopserver> <BiG MeeCh> depends on train length
04:50:43  <coopserver> <Maxpm> In my case, it's 4 tiles.
04:50:44  <coopserver> <Anson> the tighter, the slower
04:50:51  <coopserver> <BiG MeeCh> 2 seems pretty tight
04:50:56  <coopserver> <BiG MeeCh> 3 is about normal
04:51:16  <coopserver> <Maxpm> What is that a measure of?  Number of diagonal pieces?
04:51:22  <coopserver> <Anson> @@(clcalc rail 2
04:51:33  <coopserver> <Anson> @@(clcalc rail 2)
04:51:34  <Webster> coopserver: A rail Curve Length of 2 (3 half tiles) gives a speed of 132km/h or 82mph
04:52:09  <coopserver> <Anson> if your trains are shorter than 2 tiles or slower than 132 kph, they will go full speed in such a curve
04:52:46  <coopserver> <Anson> there are several articles in the wiki about curves
04:52:54  <coopserver> <Maxpm> Alright, I'll check there.
04:53:12  <coopserver> <Anson> CL is the distance between two 45 degree turns which turn in the same direction
04:53:34  <coopserver> <Anson> turns in opposite directiion are only S-bends and son't slow down trains
04:55:52  <coopserver> <TC_X> hey meech do you have teamspeak?
04:55:57  <coopserver> <BiG MeeCh> no , sorry
04:56:03  <coopserver> <TC_X> meh, no worries
04:56:07  <coopserver> <TC_X> just figured it might be easier
04:56:10  <coopserver> <BiG MeeCh> i think you'd pick up on it quick though
04:57:09  <coopserver> <TC_X> how do you private message?
04:57:17  <coopserver> <BiG MeeCh> open the client list
04:57:28  <coopserver> <BiG MeeCh> click on the name, hold, select private message
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04:59:19  <coopserver> <Anson> also very useful are all the shortcuts with CTRL ...
04:59:21  <coopserver> <Anson> http://wiki.openttd.org/Ctrl
05:00:40  <coopserver> <Anson> there is also an option in the advanced settings, whether ENTER starts chat to team or to all (and CTRL-ENTER does the other)
05:00:52  <coopserver> <Maxpm> If I have a path signal before a switch whose options both have a signal that is far away...can both options be occupied at once?
05:01:06  <coopserver> <Maxpm> (Look for the "!Signalling question" sign for an example.)
05:02:44  <coopserver> <Anson> this is how signals work : the whole net is divided into blocks, and there can be only one train in each block, except for the path signaled blocks, where trains look for a free path instead
05:03:10  <coopserver> <Maxpm> So...yes, then?
05:03:15  <coopserver> <Anson> thus there only needs to be free space along the path, up to the next "safe waiting point" (at signals etc)
05:03:21  <coopserver> <Anson> yes
05:03:31  <coopserver> <Maxpm> Okay.  Thanks.
05:03:38  <coopserver> <Anson> switch on a setting in the advanced options to show the reserved pathes
05:03:48  <coopserver> <Maxpm> Ooh. cool.
05:05:58  <coopserver> <Anson> presignals and PBS can mostly do the same ... but presignals allow for more tricky solutions, while pbs uses less space and is faster to build
05:06:10  <coopserver> <Maxpm> I see.
05:07:08  <coopserver> <Anson> btw : if there is no specific reason, better use 1wy pbs signals instead of 2way pbs ... else trains from the backside can pass them and crash with other trains
05:07:22  <coopserver> <Maxpm> Right.
05:09:30  <coopserver> <Anson> in those two examples, the PBS signal allows onger trains (or same trains, using less space), and it might be a split second faster for the following train since the last wagon didn't have to go 1 more tile after the split to free that block
05:10:20  <coopserver> <Maxpm> Makes sense.
05:10:22  <coopserver> <Anson> but all the other tricks like prios, overflows, etc require presignals
05:10:52  <coopserver> <BiG MeeCh> connect more stuff? :)
05:11:23  <coopserver> <Anson> best to have a habit of using block signals all the time, presignals when needed, and pbs if space is tight or other special conditions occur
05:15:49  <coopserver> <Anson> TC_X  : except for the last game, towns on this server may not build roads or crossings, and thus there is no need to fence a town to restrict its growth
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05:16:14  <coopserver> <BiG MeeCh> just told him, anson :)
05:16:49  <coopserver> <Anson> that's the disadvantage of private/team chat
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05:17:17  <coopserver> <NightmareRofls> !rules
05:17:17  <coopserver> Server rules can be found here: http://wiki.openttdcoop.org/Quickstart/Stable
05:17:27  <coopserver> <Anson> sometimes, i even don't see team chat, when i use the entire screen without console and look at IRC instead
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05:20:56  <coopserver> <Anson> i think, the overflow at Goiânia East might not work
05:21:55  <coopserver> <TC_X> interesting
05:22:23  <coopserver> <BiG MeeCh> you dont need roro for everything :)
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05:22:38  <coopserver> <Anson> TC_X : there are several tricks with the overflow .-) ... first is that on this server, red 2way signals are always treated as end-of-line or dead ends ... that setting has to be done in the console and is not the default of ottd
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05:23:38  <coopserver> <TC_X> you weren't talking about one of my overflows though, correct?
05:23:43  <coopserver> <Anson> with those red 2way signals, trains pass them and select the next ... and when there are three, it first checks only the first and second and then advances ... thus might pass the split to the reverser before it checks the third
05:24:04  <coopserver> <Anson> Goiânia East, a station of TC_X
05:24:33  <coopserver> <TC_X> i don't see it
05:24:45  <coopserver> <TC_X> oh
05:25:04  <coopserver> <TC_X> PBS instead?
05:26:11  <coopserver> <Anson> since at "decision for platform 3" it has passed reverser and platform 1, it would be stuck at platform 2 or 3
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05:26:47  <coopserver> <Anson> put the reverser at the last decision point ... in this case it would be the opposite side of the station
05:26:57  <coopserver> <TC_X> oh
05:27:13  <coopserver> <TC_X> well, all of mine have been like this, so...woops ;)
05:27:33  <coopserver> <Anson> thgere are some difficulties now with the reverser on that side ....
05:28:07  <coopserver> <TC_X> ugh
05:28:16  <coopserver> <TC_X> i feel like i'm an idiot at this game even after years of playing ;)
05:28:33  <coopserver> <TC_X> this would only overflow to outside not back to track selection, correct?
05:28:45  <coopserver> <TC_X> i mean, how can you make it go back to a station tile without being available at the beginning
05:28:59  <coopserver> <TC_X> for instance
05:29:34  <coopserver> <Anson> with a depot on that same side as the reverser, it probably will be visible to the network, and an emergeny exit for lost trains might have a tighter corner
05:29:47  <coopserver> <Anson> but you can leave the depot just where it was
05:30:00  <coopserver> <TC_X> which, the original reverse depot or hte new one?
05:31:38  <coopserver> <TC_X> but yours is still available to pathing
05:32:01  <coopserver> <TC_X> there is still a direct entrance from the entry line in your example
05:32:06  <coopserver> <TC_X> i can see how it would work if you removed that
05:32:07  <coopserver> <TC_X> one tile
05:32:21  <coopserver> <TC_X> fair enough
05:33:33  <coopserver> <BiG MeeCh> the only issue with that sorta station is that the entering trains or exiting trains will slow down substantially
05:33:48  <coopserver> <BiG MeeCh> if they are choosing the far platforms
05:33:57  <coopserver> <TC_X> oh terminus? of course
05:34:07  <coopserver> <TC_X> these are my entry level beginning game setups really
05:34:16  <coopserver> <TC_X> once traffic picks up i usually convert to roro
05:35:00  <coopserver> <Anson> most of the time, 2 platforms work well for quite some time, and 4 platforms terminus are good until 1200
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05:36:44  <coopserver> <Anson> but all these overflows are to be taken with care ... if you put too many trains in them, they easily flood the network even more when there is a jam somewhere
05:36:54  <coopserver> <BiG MeeCh> it doesnt need an overflow if you just add trains till it hits capacity
05:37:10  <coopserver> <BiG MeeCh> most stuff this early doesnt need overflow
05:37:27  <coopserver> <Anson> production may decrease even if the station is serviced well
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05:38:09  <coopserver> <BiG MeeCh> there shouldnt be any maitnencene needed at all
05:38:15  <coopserver> <TC_X> when new trains come out
05:38:17  <coopserver> <TC_X> there is
05:38:22  <coopserver> <Anson> badly serviced = 66% chance for decrease, 33% for increase ... good service = 66% chance for increase and 33% chance for decrease
05:38:43  <coopserver> <BiG MeeCh> oh, you dont need that order for maitnence at all
05:38:46  <coopserver> <BiG MeeCh> there are no breakdowns
05:38:50  <coopserver> <TC_X> right
05:38:56  <coopserver> <TC_X> but it is nice to be able to upgrade trains across the network with mass replace
05:38:59  <coopserver> <TC_X> without having a huge spike in your graph
05:39:09  <coopserver> <BiG MeeCh> Oh I get what you're saying
05:39:21  <coopserver> <Anson> thus even the worst service can get you a resource with high production, and even the best service might get you a low production or even death of the resource
05:39:22  <coopserver> <TC_X> can you build an overflow at this goods pickup and show me how you would do it with this sort of setup
05:39:27  <coopserver> <BiG MeeCh> if you have invisible depots, which they would be behind your primary stations, you dont need that order
05:40:11  <coopserver> <Anson> most "professionals" use invisible depots and no overflows
05:40:17  <coopserver> <BiG MeeCh> I'm not very good at the kind of overflow that station could use
05:40:36  <coopserver> <TC_X> so just a depot on the exit line is all that takes for it to be invisible?
05:40:40  <coopserver> <Anson> i started to like these overflows, and added the service orders
05:40:46  <coopserver> <Anson> reason :
05:41:20  <coopserver> <Anson> on these servers, breakdowns are always off (or should be), and thus also maintenance is off
05:41:47  <coopserver> <Anson> when you do an autoreplace, maintenance is used again
05:42:28  <coopserver> <Anson> but if trains have maintenance orders (btw: american maintenance, english service .-) they do it only when they encounter that order
05:42:43  <coopserver> <TC_X> yes i like that very much
05:42:46  <coopserver> <TC_X> that is how i have been doing all trains
05:42:57  <coopserver> <TC_X> non stop full load no unload, non stop nearest depot maintain, non stop unload all no load
05:43:04  <coopserver> <Anson> thus trains never will go to random depots and get stuck there or cause jams, but always do the replacing at a specigfic depot
05:43:12  <coopserver> <BiG MeeCh> well from now on you're not gonna need that middle order
05:43:30  <coopserver> <TC_X> -_-
05:45:04  <coopserver> <Anson> if you don't have the service order, trains can start going across the whole network when you accidentally have one single visible depot
05:45:43  <coopserver> <Anson> and when placing a depot, it will connect in all directions automatically and you have to remove a rail piece to make it invisible
05:46:17  <coopserver> <Anson> if you forget that or if a train happens to JUST in that moment do the decision to go to a depot, you migght get trouble
05:47:59  <coopserver> <Anson> with service order, you don't need invisible depots, and thus can build overflow depots without reversers
05:48:18  <coopserver> <TC_X> yes, i very much like the maintenance orders
05:48:24  <coopserver> <TC_X> meech I think we will have to agree to disagree on that
05:48:26  <coopserver> <Anson> thus it is simpler and also faster (no going back and forth, and blocking the entrance to the station all the time)
05:49:55  <coopserver> <Anson> BUT i use that only for simple small stations ... for larger pickups and drops, there are other much better overflows
05:51:09  <coopserver> <Anson> you also might want to add some brake space between the 2way signals and the station
05:54:29  <coopserver> <Anson> TC, you saw that last version without reverser and with brake space ?
05:54:34  <coopserver> <TC_X> no
05:56:04  <coopserver> <TC_X> oh, yes
06:05:49  <coopserver> <TC_X> how is the most efficient way to add things to groups?
06:06:00  <coopserver> <BiG MeeCh> usually duplicate an existing train
06:06:06  <coopserver> <BiG MeeCh> then just change the orders
06:06:15  <coopserver> <BiG MeeCh> after you unshare the orders
06:06:21  <coopserver> <TC_X> err...what?
06:06:25  <coopserver> <TC_X> that doesn't make any sense to me
06:06:34  <coopserver> <BiG MeeCh> for example
06:06:39  <coopserver> <BiG MeeCh> if you were to make another water pick
06:06:46  <coopserver> <BiG MeeCh> clone an existing water train
06:06:51  <coopserver> <BiG MeeCh> unshare the orders
06:06:55  <coopserver> <TC_X> oh
06:06:56  <coopserver> <TC_X> fair enough
06:07:03  <coopserver> <BiG MeeCh> change order 1
06:07:15  <coopserver> <BiG MeeCh> easiest for me at least
06:12:10  <coopserver> <BiG MeeCh> cool
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06:12:39  <coopserver> <TC_X> thanks for the help meech
06:13:17  <coopserver> <BiG MeeCh> i think you need to do an slh and ml soon
06:13:35  <coopserver> <TC_X> yes, that is where my main problem lies, not knowing how to properly do them and transition into them
06:13:50  <coopserver> <BiG MeeCh> sure well you can look at the line going to the town drop
06:13:57  <coopserver> <BiG MeeCh> and there are a bunch of primaries hooked to it
06:14:13  <coopserver> <BiG MeeCh> you can group some of them together
06:14:41  <coopserver> <BiG MeeCh> like marechal deodoro valley could be connected to that one water line
06:15:16  <coopserver> <TC_X> water line goes one way, marechal goes the other
06:15:21  <coopserver> <TC_X> they aren't true three ways
06:15:24  <coopserver> <TC_X> i guess obviously i could change that
06:15:31  <coopserver> <BiG MeeCh> oh right
06:15:39  <coopserver> <BiG MeeCh> well the SLH would make it gohave choice either way
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06:18:09  <coopserver> <Maxpm> Would anyone experienced with junctions mind taking a look at this 4-way hub I might use?  It's marked "WIP."
06:18:26  <coopserver> <BiG MeeCh> 4-way hub sounds painful
06:19:36  <coopserver> <BiG MeeCh> there are a few signal gaps in that configuration
06:20:45  <coopserver> <TC_X> welp, i think i am going to call it a night
06:20:49  <coopserver> <TC_X> thanks again for the help meech/anson
06:21:02  <coopserver> <BiG MeeCh> sure seeya later
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06:23:11  <coopserver> <Anson> back ... had to take a biobreak for pickup and drop :-)
06:23:22  <coopserver> <Anson> about the cloning :
06:24:06  <coopserver> <Anson> when you clone a train it is only copied ... and that can be done by cloning in thestation window, or on a train window
06:24:29  <coopserver> <Anson> when you clone and hold CTRL while doing so, you get a clone with shared orders
06:24:54  <coopserver> <Anson> thus no need to unshare if you just clone the train
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06:27:33  <coopserver> <Anson> without looking at the details, such a junction always grows pretty big pretty quickly, but still is only for single lines
06:28:06  <coopserver> <Anson> if you do a junction for doubled or triple lines, such a 4way is a real pain, and rarely needed
06:28:18  <coopserver> <BiG MeeCh> doing 2x slh would be easier
06:28:29  <coopserver> <BiG MeeCh> or msh or whatever you want to call it
06:28:45  <coopserver> <Maxpm> Hmm.
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06:29:12  <coopserver> <Maxpm> I'm just trying to have a more organized, systematic approach to this one intersection that I know will become major later on.
06:29:16  <coopserver> <Anson> better do training for your skills by building SLH (connection from sideline to mainline), eg a single or double track for the ML, and connecting a single SL to it ...
06:29:52  <coopserver> <Maxpm> This hub is based on a really old (~2009) OpenTTD coop blog post.
06:31:56  <coopserver> <Anson> if you want to see a really big hub, look at the archive ... we had a game with only a big cross, where two mainlines had a junction where all incoming rails were connected to all outgoing rails ....
06:32:23  <coopserver> <Anson> i think it was 4 or 5 lines per direction at first, thus 20 incoing and 20 outgoing :-)
06:32:54  <coopserver> <Anson> later, 2 more were added, although those two mostly were connected only amongst themselves and to a few others
06:33:05  <coopserver> <Anson> total size was 128x128 tiles :-) LOL
06:33:22  <coopserver> <Maxpm> Wow.
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06:35:27  <coopserver> <Maxpm> This station will only accept goods if it's right in the middle of the city, which I can't do.
06:35:32  <coopserver> <Anson> at the WIP junction, several improvements would be needed to make it really fast
06:35:42  <coopserver> <Maxpm> Any way around that, other than to have a supplementary truck line?
06:35:50  <coopserver> <Anson> lots of signals before and after the splits and merges
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06:36:20  <coopserver> <Anson> and also better waiting spaces, so that an entire train can wait there without blocking something
06:36:36  <coopserver> <Maxpm> Right.
06:38:17  <coopserver> <Anson> such a symmetrical layout is also only theory ... you will have to adjust to landscape, and may build asymmetrical, giving better/shorter routes through the junction for the more important connections
06:39:16  <coopserver> <Anson> best to start training by building a mainline and doing a proper sideline hub (SLH) ... then doing a SLH for a doubletrack mainline
06:49:17  <coopserver> <Anson> max, so you want to see a real hub ? ... look at sign SLH01
06:49:33  <coopserver> <Maxpm> How do I go to a sign?
06:49:44  <coopserver> <Anson> open the list of signs and click one
06:50:29  <coopserver> <Anson> there is one setting to show/hide competitor signs ... thus you might have to enable that option to see signs of other companies
06:50:36  <coopserver> <Maxpm> I'm looking at it.
06:50:45  <coopserver> <Maxpm> This is involved.
06:51:07  <coopserver> <Anson> that is a hub for a sigle sideline connected to a double mainline, but it is not finished yet
06:51:37  <coopserver> <Anson> compare that to your 4way hub, and it might be the same or even bigger complexity ...
06:52:00  <coopserver> <Maxpm> Yeah, but how do I know I even want a doubled main line?
06:52:07  <coopserver> <Anson> can you see what is wrong/not yet done at SLH01 ?
06:52:18  <coopserver> <Maxpm> No, it's beyond me.
06:52:24  <coopserver> <Anson> when the main line is full and always is jammed, you need to double it
06:52:25  <coopserver> <Maxpm> Other than the track that's a dead end.
06:52:38  <coopserver> <Anson> when the doubled mainline is jammed, you need to triple it
06:52:56  <coopserver> <Maxpm> Well, here's what I don't get about doubled main lines:
06:53:31  <coopserver> <Maxpm> Obviously trains never know which track is currently more "dense," so won't they just pick the shorter route at the hub and always go to the same track?
06:53:36  <coopserver> <Anson> to the right side, the mainline is not yet doubled, but the rails are already prepared at the SLH to not have to rebuild it later again too soon
06:53:45  <coopserver> <Maxpm> So you end up with an empty track parallel to a full one?
06:54:18  <coopserver> <Anson> do you see the sign "choice" ?
06:54:34  <coopserver> <Maxpm> Yes.
06:54:53  <coopserver> <Anson> at that split, there is waiting space for exactly one train for each ML track
06:55:24  <coopserver> <Anson> the first train might always go to one side, but if that bay is full, the next trains go to the other
06:55:52  <coopserver> <Maxpm> So a doubled mainline only becomes useful if a single mainline is backed up all the way to the hub?
06:56:29  <coopserver> <Anson> the weakest link of a chain determines its entire strength
06:56:48  <coopserver> <Anson> same for tracks : the slowest part determines the entire possible throughput
06:57:39  <coopserver> <Anson> if you double most part of a mainline, the throughput is still only that of the single line which was not doubled yet
06:59:15  <coopserver> <Anson> just added the three main problems that still need to be built ...
06:59:35  <coopserver> <Anson> lol ... i didn't add the problems ... i only added signs for them :-)
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07:03:22  <coopserver> <Anson> still studying the SLH ? did you recognize what the problems were ?
07:03:43  <coopserver> <Maxpm> Oh, no, I left to look at the junctionary on the wiki.  Sorry.
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07:05:32  <coopserver> <Anson> the junctionary is only a collection of examples ... lots of them are several years old and not "state of the art", and most can't be just copied, but serve only as examples
07:05:54  <coopserver> <Maxpm> Oh.
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07:32:20  <coopserver> <Anson> 2 of 3 problems solved
07:34:09  <coopserver> <Maxpm> I still don't get overflow depots.  Why is the arrow-looking track off to the side needed?
07:37:22  <coopserver> <Maxpm> Right.
07:38:09  <coopserver> <Maxpm> In my "WIP" junction, or in general?
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07:41:42  <coopserver> <Maxpm> Well, when's the rule-of-thumb for when you need waiting spaces?
07:41:47  <coopserver> <Maxpm> Is it after every single choice?
07:42:12  <coopserver> <Maxpm> Yeah, I noticed that.  That's clever.
07:43:44  <coopserver> <Maxpm> So basically, you just don't want trains to be able to block switches.
07:45:40  <coopserver> <Anson> that's the purpose of mainlines : go on without slowing down or even be stopped
07:45:55  <coopserver> <Maxpm> Right.
07:46:14  <coopserver> <Anson> thus trains splitting off from the mainline should always have enough space to wait outside the mainline and not block it
07:46:42  <coopserver> <Anson> sounds basic when said, but it's a bit harder to always think on building like that .-)
07:46:53  <coopserver> <Maxpm> Mmh.
07:54:14  <coopserver> <Anson> tyteen : where are your diamond mines ?
07:54:27  <coopserver> <Anson> i see two trains waiting to load ....
07:56:42  <coopserver> <Anson> probably dies and thus the trains and track only cost money now ... btw: 90 degree curves are forbidden on this server, and thus trains can't reach the depot when they come from Chapecó Mines
08:00:51  <coopserver> <Maxpm> How many diagonal tracks does it take to fit a 4-tile train?
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08:19:40  <bug_sniper> !password
08:19:40  <coopserver> bug_sniper: Free entry, no passwords needed
08:19:48  <bug_sniper> !users
08:19:52  <bug_sniper> !version
08:19:53  <coopserver> bug_sniper: The current (running) version of this Supybot is 0.83.4.1.  The newest version available online is 0.83.4.1.
08:20:10  <bug_sniper> !dl
08:20:10  <coopserver> bug_sniper: !download lin|lin64|osx|ottdau|source|win32|win64|win9x
08:20:11  <coopserver> bug_sniper: http://www.openttd.org/en/download-stable/1.4.0-beta1
08:24:28  <bug_sniper> !players
08:24:32  <bug_sniper> @players
08:24:41  <bug_sniper> @help
08:24:41  <Webster> bug_sniper: (help [<plugin>] [<command>]) -- This command gives a useful description of what <command> does. <plugin> is only necessary if the command is in more than one plugin.
08:25:31  <bug_sniper> !playercount
08:25:31  <coopserver> bug_sniper: There are currently 3 players and 2 spectators, making a total of 5 clients connected
08:25:35  <bug_sniper> !player
08:25:49  <bug_sniper> http://puu.sh/6accP.png
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08:27:48  <coopserver> <Anson> maxpm : just count them :-) ... the diagonals go from middle of a tile to another middle ... total of 2 diagonal rails per tile
08:28:15  <coopserver> <Maxpm> Yeah, I tested it.
08:28:46  <coopserver> <Anson> wagons are drawn a bit longer ... but if you want to count the signals needed, it is just 1 tile = 2 halftiles = 2 short diagonals
08:30:08  <coopserver> <Anson> it would be a task for einstein, to calculate the relativity of lengths and speeds :-)
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09:20:57  <coopserver> <Maxpm> How do I liquidate my company?
09:21:10  <coopserver> <Anson> sell all vehicles and leave the company
09:21:30  <coopserver> <Anson> companies without vehicles and active players are automatically deleted
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09:22:00  <coopserver> <Anson> or buy something costly (if available, ships or planes on this server) and go bankrupt
09:23:02  <coopserver> <Anson> you can also remove the password and rename the company to something like "delete me" or "i give up" so that anybody else can take over
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09:23:29  <coopserver> <Anson> (if you don't want to start over with a new company yourself)
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09:29:50  <coopserver> <Maxpm> What's the point of the reverser track before overflow depots?  Someone mentioned it makes them invisible to the pathfinder, but...why is that a desirable thing?
09:30:22  <coopserver> <Anson> when trains go to a depot at some random time, they might pick a random visible depot
09:30:54  <coopserver> <Maxpm> So?
09:30:57  <coopserver> <Anson> if that is in some sideline or at some station, they can get stuck for some time, or even be lost and block other trains
09:31:00  <coopserver> <Maxpm> Oh.
09:31:44  <coopserver> <Anson> thus the usual method is to have all depots invisible, except some specially suited depot, eg with some extra waiting space etc, at a mainline
09:32:03  <coopserver> <Maxpm> Hmm.
09:32:35  <coopserver> <Anson> after i tested how maintenance works and the maintenance orders, i decided to try using those orders to send trains only to specific depots
09:32:49  <coopserver> <Anson> by giving the order when they are near that depot
09:33:28  <coopserver> <Anson> and thus they would not all go to random depots, or all 500 trains would queue at the same depot, but each train would go to a depot right next to its pickup station
09:34:43  <V453000> http://blog.openttdcoop.org/2012/11/18/train-servicing-settings/ more info there :)
09:34:44  <V453000> also hi
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09:36:27  <coopserver> <Anson> hallo, V
09:36:46  <coopserver> <Anson> just reasding that wiki page ... how do you set the interval to 5 ?
09:37:09  <coopserver> <Anson> the lowest i could achieve during a map was 30, and the lowest on the main ottd screen was 15
09:37:13  <V453000> manually I think
09:37:17  <V453000> just doubleclick the number
09:37:29  <V453000> in your settings
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09:38:28  <coopserver> <Anson> just tried it, and it diesn't work
09:38:54  <coopserver> <Anson> in this map, values below 30 are ignored completely, nit even rounded up to 30
09:39:50  <coopserver> <Anson> the lowest i can achieve during a map is 30 for train/RV/ship, and 40 for planes
09:41:08  <V453000> idk, try in main menu and make sure you have it in days not %%
09:41:21  <V453000> 30 is still okay though
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09:42:27  <coopserver> <Anson> you wrote that the value applies only to new trains ... that probably was true a while ago, but ottd now has a setting of "default" for trains which takes the default interval and thus also changes the interval of any train that is set to default
09:42:44  <V453000> interesting
09:42:51  <coopserver> <Maxpm> Why are signals typically placed every two blocks on these servers?  If density is so important, why not every single block?
09:43:02  <coopserver> <Anson> if you change the value on a specific vehicle, it will be changed for that vehicle only, and no longer follow changes to the default interval setting
09:43:20  <V453000> every single block wont help you, you still need t o be able to make junctions where cant be signals and so they would be bottlenecks ;)
09:43:33  <coopserver> <Anson> the weakest link of a chain ...
09:43:52  <coopserver> <Anson> when you have a split or merge, you automatically have only spacing 2 at that spot
09:43:59  <coopserver> <Maxpm> Ah.
09:45:19  <coopserver> <Anson> at specifi locations, you mighgt want to speed things up and use spacing 1, but in general it would make no sense, and increase the work you have to do (remove a signal just to place a split or merge)
09:47:37  <coopserver> <Anson> yes, i agree with that wiki page now ... seems to have been rewritten partially since i last read it :-)
09:49:10  <coopserver> <Anson> two details could be added ... the above default setting for intervals ... and that you can give orders for maintenance
09:50:06  <coopserver> <Anson> any train with any service order (even when that order can't be reached because of conditionals etc) will not go to a depot by itself but trust the orders and that it will be sent to a depit by them
09:51:05  <coopserver> <Anson> thus i use one such order on every train now, and can even determine to which depot the train goes, thus spreading the load of depots and not having all trains autoreplace at only a few depots
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09:52:51  <coopserver> <Anson> this method requires discipline on giving orders, but allows stupid visible depots to be built without harm :-)
09:52:55  <coopserver> <Maxpm> Are there any differences between the PURR tracks?
09:53:07  <coopserver> <GriffinOneTwo> colors
09:53:18  <bug_sniper> there are differences if you use meow trains, from what I can see
09:53:20  <coopserver> <Anson> hehe
09:54:29  <coopserver> <Anson> all trains can go on universal rails, no matter which color ... meow trains get specific bonus from different colors, and wet trains get a penalty when not driving ion wet rails
09:56:12  <coopserver> <phatmatt> anson, the human FAQ answerer
09:58:31  <coopserver> <Anson> V, one important setting you missed in that article : the setting of "min money" from the autoRENEW section applies also to autoREPLACE
09:59:25  <coopserver> <Anson> YOU will rarely notice that, and in the late game it doesn't matter, but in the early game, people might wonder why trains never autoreplace
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10:15:16  <coopserver> <Maxpm> I'll look in a second.  Just finishing up my first line.
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10:26:01  <coopserver> <bug sniper> so how do you know if you need more than one train?
10:26:27  <coopserver> <Anson> you need more than ine traun almost always :-)
10:26:33  <coopserver> <GriffinOneTwo> if you are not picking up atlest about 70% of a resource
10:26:47  <coopserver> <bug sniper> ok than
10:26:53  <coopserver> <Anson> one train should always be waiting for a load at the station while another transports caergo to a drop
10:27:08  <coopserver> <bug sniper> looks like 1 train is enough for some lines then
10:27:42  <coopserver> <Anson> how can one train wait at the station while another transports cargo, when you only have one train on that route ?
10:28:17  <coopserver> <bug sniper> under the previously mentioned goal of having a rating higher than 70%
10:29:16  <coopserver> <Anson> the station rating depends on many factors, among them are the speed of the trains, how much cargo has piled up at the station, and when a train last arrived
10:29:46  <coopserver> <Anson> http://wiki.openttd.org/Game_mechanics#Station_rating
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10:32:52  <coopserver> <Anson> you get up to 17% from using fast trains (up to 255 kph), 10% from building statues (but remember that you can never delete the statues again), and +16% to -35% depending on how much cargo is waiting
10:33:46  <coopserver> <Anson> thus a second train is always useful, to keep the piles down to 0 and get +16% rating instead of having 1500+ cargo waiting and get -355
10:33:54  <coopserver> <Anson> *  -35%
10:38:35  <coopserver> <Maxpm> Is it possible to make an overflow depot for a ro'ro' station?
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10:39:28  <coopserver> <Anson> yes
10:39:38  <coopserver> <Anson> it is the same as an overflow for terminus
10:39:56  <coopserver> <Maxpm> Okay.  Thanks.
10:42:30  <coopserver> <Anson> look at the sign "simple overflow" for my roro with a primitive visible ierflow depot
10:44:11  <coopserver> <bug sniper> do you sometimes transfer goods to get them over towns?
10:44:44  <coopserver> <Anson> but use such visible depoits (and also the visible depots behind the roro) only when you take measures against lost trains, eg service orders on trains
10:45:39  <coopserver> <Anson> you mean if the drop station it too far outside of town and the station doesn't accept the goods/food ?
10:46:06  <coopserver> <bug sniper> I mean, to transport oil when the only possible route cuts through a town
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10:46:39  <coopserver> <bug sniper> at the sign
10:46:56  <coopserver> <Anson> did you try everything ? building tunnels under the town ?
10:47:29  <coopserver> <bug sniper> the town is near the water level
10:47:46  <coopserver> <Anson> there is enough space to go around the town ...
10:49:34  <coopserver> <Anson> although excessive station walk shouldn't be done, no teleporting, etc, i don't think anybody would complain if you build the drop station at my sign, and then use a single tile to get into reach of 4 tiles from the factory
10:50:21  <coopserver> <bug sniper> I think it would look better to have a train cut through the town than to do that
10:50:25  <coopserver> <Anson> when you remove a coastline, water can flood land, but you can dig a bit and build a tunnel at sea level
10:50:39  <coopserver> <bug sniper> I'll try that
10:52:18  <coopserver> <Anson> you see my three sugns with hints ? for an example of a tunnel, the location of a drop, and the extra tile
10:56:45  <coopserver> <Anson> bug, you might want to use "full load any" orders for your trains to keep them waiting in the station
10:57:32  <coopserver> <Maxpm> Am I doing hidden overflow depots correctly?  Sign: "Baby's First Overflow"
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11:00:50  <coopserver> <Maxpm> Yeah, accidentally deleted it.  Try now.
11:01:05  <coopserver> <Maxpm> Also, ignore the train that's just moving back and forth there.  I haven't given it proper orders yet.
11:03:42  <coopserver> <Anson> three small details, see signs
11:04:11  <coopserver> <Anson> one big problem : trains from the reverser will not go to the depot, but leave the station completely
11:04:29  <coopserver> <Anson> you may not have a path from the reverser to the exit of the station
11:04:29  <coopserver> <Maxpm> That is a big problem.
11:06:02  <coopserver> <Maxpm> Thank you.
11:06:07  <coopserver> <Maxpm> That helps a lot.
11:07:11  <coopserver> <Anson> the last 2 rail pieces that i added are for the emergency exit, so that lost trains can leave the station ... else they would go to a random platform or reverser and eventually deadlock there
11:07:40  <coopserver> <Maxpm> I see.
11:08:26  <coopserver> <Anson> the signal at the entramce HAS to be a block signal, or else trains would wait there until a platform becomes free
11:09:16  <coopserver> <Maxpm> So then what should the signals by the platforms be?  Regular block signals, as well?
11:09:29  <coopserver> <Anson> read the signs :-)
11:09:38  <coopserver> <Maxpm> Oops, didn't see.  Sorry.
11:11:09  <coopserver> <Maxpm> Why must the platform signals be exit signals?  Is it because the signal built into the depot acts as an entry signal?
11:11:22  <coopserver> <Anson> exactly
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11:12:00  <coopserver> <Anson> exit or combo ... but they need to be 2way to trigger the "end of line" (dead end) effect
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11:13:57  <coopserver> <Player #1> !name [FR]Syl59
11:13:57  <coopserver> *** Player #1 has changed his/her name to [FR]Syl59
11:14:10  <coopserver> <[FR]Syl59> Hello there
11:14:19  <V453000> hi
11:14:24  <coopserver> <Cameron> ello
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11:15:27  <coopserver> <Anson> if you add a service order ("2: maintain at nearest depot"), that depot will always be used to do autoreplace after the train has loaded
11:15:35  <Taede> mornin
11:15:45  <coopserver> <Maxpm> Oh, that's cool.
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11:16:29  <coopserver> <Anson> then no other visible depots will hurt these trains, and they won't get lost
11:17:25  <coopserver> <Maxpm> Will the trains ALWAYS visit the depot, or will they  only go if they need to be replaced?
11:17:47  <coopserver> <Anson> set it up and you will see automatically :-)
11:18:20  <coopserver> <Anson> just insert the order to go to nearest depot
11:18:53  <coopserver> <Anson> then you will get the button to change the "goto" to a "maintain" which will be skipped unless needed
11:19:37  <coopserver> <Maxpm> Conditional order jumps seem powerful.  Have they ever been used to do something interesting?
11:19:57  <coopserver> <Anson> yes, on refitting networks
11:20:07  <coopserver> <[FR]Syl59> There are interesting on refiting network
11:20:09  <coopserver> <[FR]Syl59> (too late :) )
11:21:06  <coopserver> <Anson> goto pickup, goto drop, refit, pickup secondary, test if full and unload/fullload, goto start again, or goto secondary drop and then restart"
11:21:26  <V453000> http://wiki.openttdcoop.org/ProZone:Archive_-_Games_21_-_30#gameid_22
11:21:26  <V453000> this.
11:21:33  <V453000> (:
11:21:44  <coopserver> <Anson> you can also look at my train 23
11:21:54  <V453000> maxpm, you may want to join our irc so you could click on links ;)
11:22:04  <coopserver> <Maxpm> Alright.
11:22:37  <coopserver> <Anson> it unloads goods/food at the drop and takes cargo ... then checks whether it could unload or the town no longer accepts it, then unloads unconditionally
11:23:10  <coopserver> <Anson> thus the train will transport and pile up cargo when the station no longer accepts it and then transport it from near end to far end when it accepts again
11:23:42  <coopserver> <Anson> to skip the movement to far end when the train could unload all, the test is needed
11:24:01  <coopserver> <Anson> another version would be to send those trains to a nearby depot and stop there
11:25:37  <coopserver> <Anson> btw : to use near end and far end orders, the station needs to be longer than the trains, else it might leave the station and do a tour around the network until it comes back to the far end
11:26:37  <V453000> found the irc button at openttdcoop.org yet ? :P
11:26:38  <coopserver> <Anson> Baby, it has worked :-) ... a train just parked in the overflow .-)
11:26:52  <coopserver> <Maxpm> :D
11:27:52  <coopserver> <Anson> for bigger stations, you might later build better and bigger overflows too ... like at Campina Grande Heights ...
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11:51:11  <coopserver> <Anson> you had asked about interesting conditionals ... i just chenged orders on train 117 : one conditional to skip unloadin empty trains, and one conditional to decide whether the train should go through the reverser to the overflow for autoreplacing
11:52:12  <V453000> just see pro zone game 22 if you want conditionals (: nuff said
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12:09:10  <coopserver> <Maxpm> When does production increase?
12:09:38  <coopserver> <chester> if you service well
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13:02:51  <V453000> !date
13:02:51  <coopserver> May 19 1999
13:12:43  <coopserver> *** Game paused (connecting clients)
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13:15:02  <coopserver> <Maxpm> Why would a town just randomly stop accepting food?  D:
13:15:23  <coopserver> <GriffinOneTwo> population decreased near station
13:15:25  <coopserver> <chester> all citizens are fed
13:16:37  <coopserver> <Maxpm> Well, what can I do about it?
13:18:07  <coopserver> <chester> they need something more than just maize and fruit
13:50:29  <coopserver> *** Game paused (connecting clients)
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13:52:27  <V453000> nuts 063 on bananas (:
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13:53:30  <coopserver> <chester> V hi
13:53:38  <coopserver> <chester> ive got a question
13:53:53  <V453000> you can have a question but until you share it with me I cant do much about it :)
13:54:01  <coopserver> <Maxpm> Lol.
13:54:34  <coopserver> <chester> when i just joined there were no optionss in town window
13:54:49  <coopserver> <chester> but advertisement campaigns
13:54:57  <coopserver> <chester> now they have plenty of
13:55:14  <coopserver> <JJens> they are only there when you can afford them
13:55:15  <coopserver> <chester> what affects them
13:55:23  <coopserver> <chester> aa ic
13:55:27  <coopserver> <chester> thx
13:55:52  <coopserver> <Maxpm> Something has gone disastrously wrong with an overflow depot I tried to make and I can't figure it out.  Anyone care to take a look?
13:56:07  <coopserver> <Maxpm> Sign: Overflow Mistake
13:56:55  <coopserver> <chester> i'll show
13:57:16  <coopserver> <chester> let join
13:57:22  <coopserver> *** chester has joined company #11
13:59:12  <coopserver> <chester> lets see
14:00:39  <coopserver> <chester> he choses wrong
14:05:12  <coopserver> <chester> they dont like
14:05:55  <coopserver> <GriffinOneTwo> OOPs
14:06:37  <coopserver> <chester> lets see
14:07:27  <coopserver> <Maxpm> Hang on, let me try something.
14:07:32  <coopserver> <chester> ok
14:08:11  <coopserver> <Maxpm> Dang.
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14:16:52  <coopserver> <chester> ah my
14:17:08  <coopserver> <Maxpm> Well, at least they're driving onto the reverser now.
14:17:32  <coopserver> <chester> they dont
14:17:40  <coopserver> <chester> they turnaround
14:18:34  <coopserver> <chester> now they do
14:18:59  <coopserver> <chester> why dont they like another branch
14:19:21  <coopserver> <Maxpm> I haven't the slightest idea.
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15:32:16  <coopserver> <Maxpm> Oops.
15:32:21  <coopserver> <GriffinOneTwo> OOPS
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17:04:44  <happy_> hi all
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17:20:48  <coopserver> <JoeSchmoe> hey slicey
17:20:51  <coopserver> <Slicey> yo
17:21:02  <happy_> hi
17:21:18  <coopserver> <JoeSchmoe> Slicey: good work while i've been away
17:21:32  <coopserver> <Slicey> i havent done shit this map :)
17:22:12  <coopserver> <Slicey> did you see the last map?
17:22:19  <coopserver> *** Slicey has joined company #2
17:22:29  <coopserver> <JoeSchmoe> at the start yes
17:22:51  <coopserver> <Slicey> wish you would have the the final
17:23:14  <coopserver> <JoeSchmoe> sorry was in the hospital with the wife and new baby #2
17:23:29  <coopserver> <Slicey> congrats man
17:23:32  <coopserver> <JoeSchmoe> ty
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17:24:12  <coopserver> <StepanBarth> hi
17:24:21  <happy_> hi
17:25:15  <coopserver> <JoeSchmoe> Slicey: you gonna be on a bunch this map?
17:25:22  <coopserver> <Slicey> should be
17:25:30  <coopserver> <Slicey> for sure next
17:25:57  <coopserver> <JoeSchmoe> shall i convert the factory to normal drop and pick?
17:26:13  <coopserver> <Slicey> i think its fine now
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17:27:31  <coopserver> <Slicey> my bad
17:27:36  <coopserver> *** Slicey has joined company #2
17:28:11  <coopserver> <Slicey> hmm
17:28:40  <coopserver> <Slicey> alright
17:30:51  <coopserver> <Slicey> ok
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17:33:16  <coopserver> <Slicey> joe did you refit train to right cargo?
17:34:32  <coopserver> <JoeSchmoe> its possible that if they were in the middle of the switch they are not correctly refitted
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17:35:15  <coopserver> <Slicey> thank god im going to stable connection in 20mins
17:35:21  <coopserver> *** Slicey has joined company #2
17:35:32  <coopserver> <Slicey> ill just refit
17:35:36  <coopserver> <Slicey> to universal
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18:28:44  <skyem123> No room for me. :-(
18:29:20  <coopserver> *** Game paused (connecting clients)
18:29:22  <skyem123> Actually...
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19:47:36  <coopserver> <chester> V are you here?
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20:23:35  <coopserver> <JoeSchmoe> it is our 2nd girl
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21:18:54  <coopserver> *** Game paused (connecting clients)
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21:38:50  <coopserver> <Cameron> 100%
21:39:21  <coopserver> <chester> 100% what
21:39:32  <coopserver> <Cameron> transported 1st time ever
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21:54:09  <coopserver> <bug sniper> why are houses forming not along a road?
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22:17:37  <coopserver> Dong! reply took 0:00:00.145226
22:19:35  <coopserver> <Anson> too many trains that you needed to get rid of ? :-)
22:19:55  <coopserver> <chester> experimenting
22:20:15  <coopserver> <bug sniper> how does prospecting work?
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22:20:32  <coopserver> <chester> you dont know exactly where will it appear
22:20:41  <coopserver> <Anson> you fund it at a random location when prospecting
22:20:44  <coopserver> <bug sniper> oh, I see
22:21:34  <Speedy-> where to get that strange grf and where to put it?
22:22:12  <coopserver> <bug sniper> so someone must have prospected a lot of rubber
22:23:01  <coopserver> <bug sniper> and oil refineries too
22:23:13  <coopserver> <chester> maybe not
22:23:22  <Taede> strange grf?
22:23:28  <coopserver> <chester> game spawns from time to time
22:24:14  <Speedy-> GRVTS v1.3	52571201	CDE6D7FCDEB3FB2E3D6F6E9F0122C3AE
22:25:27  <Speedy-> tried these from http://grfcrawler.tt-forums.net/index.php?do=search&q=52571201
22:25:28  <Webster> Title: GRFCrawler (at grfcrawler.tt-forums.net)
22:26:20  <coopserver> <chester> i have downloaded whole pack with all versions included
22:30:11  <Speedy-> maybe I use wrong dir
22:30:26  <Taede> is it not on bananas?
22:31:11  <coopserver> <chester> http://www.tt-forums.net/download/file.php?id=123493
22:31:32  <coopserver> <chester> version 1.3 is inside
22:31:43  <coopserver> <chester> put to newgrf folder
22:31:57  <coopserver> <chester> which is in my documents/openttd folder
22:32:02  <coopserver> <chester> for windows
22:34:40  <coopserver> *** Game paused (connecting clients)
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22:34:57  <coopserver> <chester> see
22:35:00  <coopserver> <Speedy> gr8
22:36:03  <coopserver> <Speedy> same dir where I was
22:36:25  <coopserver> <Speedy> only wrong files :)
22:50:14  <coopserver> <chester> why
22:50:58  <coopserver> <chester> wanna join?
22:51:35  <coopserver> <chester> if you will grow cities i'll have no place
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