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00:00:06 <Bjarni> it appears to work well now 00:00:40 *** dp__ [n=dp@p54B2F1FC.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 00:00:59 <Turulo> yeps 00:01:17 <Turulo> then i will release a devel version, so people can test it 00:01:33 <Turulo> Bjarni do you have any tips for creating low load servers? 00:01:45 <Turulo> more than decreasing map size, and veichles number? 00:01:56 <Bjarni> hmm 00:02:02 <Turulo> also maybe some net_frame_freq changes are requiered? 00:02:13 <Bjarni> max number of companies and connected players as well 00:02:17 <Turulo> psp isnt too fast so i got desync errors somethimes 00:02:27 <Bjarni> but the network stuff.... I always play in single player 00:02:41 <Bjarni> ahh got the new coal truck 00:02:47 <Turulo> lol 00:03:07 <Turulo> well supporting it isnt bad, and handled gamers like it 00:03:59 <Bjarni> actually now that I think about it, I have only tried OTTD on lan 00:04:14 <Bjarni> I haven't played decent sized games online 00:04:45 <Turulo> im wanting to keep servers using 512x512 maps for psp players 00:05:06 <Turulo> i also dont like big maps 00:05:18 <Darkvater> Turulo: well that's nice, but even for a handheld and 2-3 players 256x256 is more than enough :) 00:05:22 <Fujitsu> Yeah. 00:05:24 <Darkvater> 512 will become too long 00:05:37 <Turulo> i would like to support 10 players 00:05:43 <Turulo> if psp clients can handle it 00:05:51 <Turulo> so i need some testing 00:06:08 <Turulo> otherwise i will decrease maps to 256 and less players 00:06:17 <Bjarni> how do you compile for PSP? 00:06:36 <Turulo> there is a sdk 00:06:45 <Turulo> and patches for gcc/binutils/gdb 00:06:57 <Turulo> done by the ps2dev guys 00:07:04 <Bjarni> if it is done in gentoo, then we can (quickly?) add it to the nightly build server 00:07:27 <Turulo> yes it can be done on gentoo 00:07:36 <Turulo> or almost on any other unix like 00:07:44 <Turulo> it works on mac 00:08:17 <Turulo> well last release is clean code 00:08:29 <Turulo> using #if defined(PSP) 00:08:40 <Turulo> trying to hack as less as posible 00:08:40 *** Tobin [n=Tobin@c211-28-197-129.eburwd7.vic.optusnet.com.au] has joined #openttd 00:08:42 <Bjarni> make a diff and try that diff on the newest revision 00:08:54 <Turulo> but gui changes arent very friendly ;( 00:08:56 <Tobin> Hello people. 00:09:00 <Turulo> hiz 00:09:07 <Bjarni> I have already left 0.4.5 00:09:16 <Bjarni> hi Tobin 00:09:32 <Bjarni> Tobin: did you try the change in the full screen cocoa driver? 00:09:44 <Tobin> Which change? 00:09:47 <Bjarni> I made it a lot faster yesterday 00:09:53 <Tobin> Ah, not yet. 00:09:56 <Bjarni> a speedup of 1000% 00:10:02 <Bjarni> you should be able to notice that 00:10:26 <Tobin> Bjarni: I'll try it. 00:10:32 <Tobin> Bjarni: In the latest nightly? 00:10:57 <Tobin> Is everyone enjoying this DmitryKo guy as much as me? 00:11:05 <Tobin> Hilarious. 00:11:24 <Bjarni> Tobin: yeah, but you will gain even higher speed by compiling yourself 00:11:33 <Bjarni> I mean the nightly build is compiled for G3 00:11:43 <Tobin> It isn't universal> 00:11:45 <Tobin> ? 00:11:51 <Bjarni> not the nightly build 00:12:06 <Bjarni> the compiler farm do not yet support x86 based OSX binaries 00:12:15 <peter1138> does 00:12:24 <Bjarni> *doesn't 00:12:48 <Bjarni> the releases are universal since I compile them in OSX 00:13:19 <Bjarni> also I just added the ability to compile tripple binaries so it's also optimised for G5 00:13:19 *** Cipri [n=Cipri@c-24-129-101-95.hsd1.fl.comcast.net] has joined #openTTD 00:13:24 <Tobin> Bjarni: That reminds me, did you use lippo to put the universal binaries together (from the Makefile) or does it set both -march i386 and -march ppc when compiling? 00:13:26 <Fujitsu> Nice. 00:13:34 <Bjarni> lipo 00:13:36 * Buggi wonders if there is a better way to handle pre-signal placement 00:13:47 * Tobin looks in the Makefile 00:14:06 <Bjarni> it's in os/macosx/Makfile and os/macosx/Makfile.setup 00:14:14 <Bjarni> bah 00:14:17 *** dp-- [n=dp@p54B2DDBC.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 00:14:17 *** dp__ is now known as dp-- 00:14:22 <Bjarni> *Makefile 00:14:30 <Bjarni> and Makefile.setup 00:14:42 <Bjarni> how can I make the same typo twice??? 00:15:07 <Tobin> Bjarni: Is there a good reason not to set both architectures when compiling? 00:15:15 <Bjarni> yeah 00:15:16 <Bjarni> it failed 00:15:19 <Bjarni> that's why 00:15:23 <Tobin> Really? 00:15:37 <Bjarni> don't ask me why 00:15:44 <Bjarni> I can't remember, but it did fail 00:16:08 <Bjarni> but it was with Xcode 2.1. 2.2 should handle such cases way better 00:16:24 <Bjarni> but then I had already written the working makefile based on lipo 00:16:58 <Tobin> Seems like a bit of a kludge. 00:17:20 <Bjarni> anyway lipo is needed for the tripple binary anyway 00:17:26 <Buggi> hmm... where was a help area for presignals... *ponders the url* 00:17:57 *** bp0 [i=pburt0@watertownDHCP-2.216-254-231.iw.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 00:17:57 <Bjarni> Buggi: the forum or even www.ttdpatch.net . They work the same way 00:18:59 <Buggi> ^>^ thanks 00:19:00 <Bjarni> Turulo: I think we can say that the server keeps working 00:19:05 <Turulo> Bjarni you can disconnect when you want, thnks for helping 00:19:31 <Turulo> yes, i still have to test it with multiple psp players 00:20:12 <Bjarni> unless you changed something directly in the network code, it should work by now 00:20:18 <Turulo> thnaks for help :P 00:20:30 <Bjarni> you should not be able to tell what OS or hardware I use 00:20:35 <Bjarni> the packages are the same 00:20:46 <Turulo> yes the only problem 00:20:48 <Turulo> is psp speed 00:20:55 <Turulo> it will produce desync with server 00:21:00 <Buggi> possible to create a signal widget window? 00:21:03 <Turulo> is psp has high load 00:21:37 <Bjarni> it's not like you can fix that if the issue is lack of CPU power 00:21:58 <Turulo> yes 00:21:58 <Bjarni> you should go ahead and make it ready to add to svn 00:22:09 <Turulo> but i should know the limits 00:22:19 <Bjarni> we will learn 00:22:27 <Turulo> to properly maintain some servers that would be "psp friendly" 00:22:46 <Turulo> Bjarni the only problem i have to integrate code into svn 00:22:49 <Turulo> are gui changes 00:23:02 <Fujitsu> That could be a problem, Turolo... 00:23:05 <Bjarni> oh those.... 00:23:06 <Fujitsu> *Turulo 00:23:21 <Turulo> there arent too many changes 00:23:24 * Buggi fears the widget system 00:23:32 <Turulo> but all save/load windows were resized 00:23:37 <Turulo> map, and some others 00:23:38 <Bjarni> send me a diff so I can see what you do to the GUI 00:23:42 <Turulo> ok 00:23:47 <Turulo> hold on a sec.. 00:24:07 <Turulo> Also there are some hacks 00:24:11 <Turulo> related to psp 00:24:11 <Darkvater> gn all 00:24:28 <Fujitsu> Night. 00:24:33 <Turulo> as some firmware versions allow game to be run on kernel mode, and others no 00:24:36 <Bjarni> night Darkvater 00:25:40 *** Belugas_Gone [n=Jfranc@216.191.111.226] has quit [Excess Flood] 00:25:45 *** Belugas_Gone [n=Jfranc@216.191.111.226] has joined #openttd 00:26:05 *** GoneWacko [n=gonewack@c18041.upc-c.chello.nl] has quit ["So long and thanks for all the fish"] 00:27:20 <ln-> survey to all: what's the best computer science book you've read? 00:27:51 <Bjarni> hmm 00:28:13 <Bjarni> can you be a little more specific than just computer science? 00:28:37 <Bjarni> I guess you want to get a book, right? 00:28:42 <Buggi> the grey and white bars just look way to close together in color 00:28:47 <Buggi> hard to see the difference 00:28:59 * Buggi seems to be talking to no one who cares, but oh well :D 00:29:00 <ln-> no, i've got my own favorite already, Modern Operating Systems by Andrew Tanenbaum. 00:29:54 <Bjarni> Buggi: the difference between you and a teacher is that you notice that nobody listens :p 00:30:20 <Bjarni> ln-: then why made such a survey in the middle of the night? 00:30:38 <Tobin> Bjarni: The Cocoa video driver does seem faster. The game still only runs at about 120% CPU time though (in fast forward). 00:30:51 <Buggi> lol!! 00:30:54 <Buggi> gee thanks man 00:31:15 <Turulo> Bjarni: what do you prefer dcc or mail? 00:31:25 <Bjarni> dcc 00:31:37 <Bjarni> Tobin: it is only improved in fullscreen mode 00:31:57 <Tobin> Bjarni: You said that earlier. 00:31:59 <Turulo> sending, let me know if you can recive it 00:32:09 <Bjarni> Turulo: failed 00:32:14 <Turulo> note that patch is agains 0.4.5 00:32:20 <Bjarni> --- DCC RECV connect attempt to Turulo failed (err=Invalid argument). 00:32:37 <Turulo> ok the give me mail, please 00:32:37 <ln-> Bjarni: because i noticed everyone isn't sleeping yet. 00:32:43 <Turulo> it must be due to me firewall 00:32:45 <Bjarni> copy paste one of the GUI changes on pastebin.com then 00:32:47 <Tobin> Bjarni: OK, juts tried that too but I can't switch to fullscreen mode. 00:32:58 <Turulo> Bjarni is a large patch... 00:33:02 <Turulo> hold a sec.. 00:33:16 <Bjarni> Tobin: you can't? 00:33:22 <Bjarni> why not? 00:33:39 <Tobin> Seg fault. 00:33:45 <Bjarni> o_O 00:33:51 <Tobin> Hang on, I'll start the game in GDB. 00:34:16 <Turulo> Bjarni 00:34:18 <Turulo> here is the patch 00:34:20 <Turulo> http://nixgeneration.com/~jaime/psp/openttd-psp.patch 00:34:42 <Turulo> some files have been also added 00:34:54 <Turulo> and it uses separate Makefile 00:36:25 *** Tobin [n=Tobin@c211-28-197-129.eburwd7.vic.optusnet.com.au] has quit [] 00:36:29 *** GoneWacko [n=gonewack@c18041.upc-c.chello.nl] has joined #openttd 00:36:57 <Bjarni> why? 00:37:00 <Fujitsu> Squite a large patch... 00:37:11 <Bjarni> we really prefer to use the same makefile for all OSes 00:37:19 <Turulo> yes i know 00:37:19 <Bjarni> it makes it easier to maintain 00:37:34 <Bjarni> add one file to the makefile and it's added for everybody (except windows) 00:37:36 <Turulo> but i didnt felt like to be hacking that huge makefile 00:38:10 *** Tobin [n=Tobin@c211-28-197-129.eburwd7.vic.optusnet.com.au] has joined #openttd 00:38:15 <Bjarni> wb Tobin 00:38:27 <Tobin> Thanks. 00:38:53 *** XeryusTC is now known as Xeryus|sleep 00:39:11 <Tobin> I stupidly let the game crash in full screen while running in gdb, when meant it wasn't closed automatically and I was stuck with a fullscreen app I couldn't move. 00:39:43 <Tobin> I'd also forgot to turn on the ssh server so I couldn't kill it from another machine. 00:39:51 <Tobin> Hooray for stupidity! 00:39:57 <coppercore> owned 00:39:58 <Bjarni> :p 00:40:17 <Tobin> OK, let me try this again. 00:40:37 <Fujitsu> ssh servers are always useful :) 00:41:50 <Tobin> Bjarni: Have you ever used the remote debugging tool? 00:41:58 <Bjarni> no 00:42:19 <Bjarni> but use another computer to log in with ssh and then run gdb openttd from that one 00:42:34 <Bjarni> it worked well for egladil 00:42:38 <Tobin> That's my plan. 00:46:39 *** FR^2 [n=frquadra@e180009242.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit ["Connection reset by caffein depletion..."] 00:47:27 <Tobin> Well that was useless. 00:48:00 <Tobin> Bjarni: Something is going wrong with a call to memcpy. 00:48:25 <Bjarni> in QZ_DrawScreen() ? 00:48:31 * Tobin digs some more 00:48:51 <Bjarni> and I would like to know what "something" is 00:48:54 <Tobin> QZ_DrawScreen() doesn't seem to be on the stack. 00:49:06 <Tobin> Don't rush me. :) 00:49:26 <Bjarni> :) 00:50:43 <Tobin> I'm rebuilding the game with DEBUG set. Think it'll help? ;) 00:51:20 <Tobin> Bjarni: Lots of warnings for video/cocoa_v.m 00:52:58 <Bjarni> I don't get any 00:53:26 <Bjarni> except I did when I tried to make a universal binary this evening 00:53:36 <Tobin> I do, "video/cocoa_v.m:845: warning: 'LockPortBits' is deprecated" etc. 00:53:44 <Bjarni> which means it's something to do with i686 00:53:50 <Bjarni> but we already knew that 00:54:17 <Bjarni> probably hardcoded big endian or something 00:54:31 <Tobin> Nasty. 00:54:44 <Tobin> Anyway, I've got a useful backtrace now. 00:56:25 *** Zahl [n=SENFGURK@dslb-082-083-208-193.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit ["YOU! It was you wasn't it!?"] 00:56:38 <Tobin> QZ_DrawScreen () at video/cocoa_v.m:1498. 00:56:56 <Tobin> bbl 00:58:24 <Bjarni> I had a feeling that it failed on that one 00:58:29 <Bjarni> but it works on powerpc 00:58:33 <Bjarni> weird 00:59:23 *** ^Cartman^ [n=Eric_Car@ti100710a081-3876.bb.online.no] has joined #openttd 01:02:19 <Bjarni> Tobin: ahh, now I think I know what goes on 01:04:57 <Bjarni> then again 01:05:07 <Bjarni> this is a part that I didn't touch 01:06:04 *** Forexs [i=Forexs@x1-6-00-0f-b5-14-63-5f.k136.webspeed.dk] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 01:07:37 *** MKV [n=Markavia@82.109.228.38] has joined #OpenTTD 01:08:03 *** MKV is now known as Markavian 01:08:13 *** Forexs [i=Forexs@x1-6-00-0f-b5-14-63-5f.k136.webspeed.dk] has joined #openttd 01:13:47 *** RoySmeding [i=1000@c514451cb.cable.wanadoo.nl] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 01:16:11 *** MKV [n=Markavia@82.109.228.38] has joined #OpenTTD 01:17:15 *** Markavian [n=Markavia@82.109.228.38] has quit [Nick collision from services.] 01:17:29 *** MKV is now known as Markavian 01:24:40 *** Markavian` [n=Markavia@82.109.228.38] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 01:27:48 *** Spoco [n=Spoco@dsl-062-197-163-31.lohjanpuhelin.fi] has quit [] 01:32:28 *** coppertop [n=copperto@dpc691922010.direcpc.com] has joined #openttd 01:33:45 *** stefan [i=stefan@home.stefan.id.au] has quit [Nick collision from services.] 01:33:59 *** stefan [i=stefan@home.stefan.id.au] has joined #openttd 01:35:35 *** stefan [i=stefan@home.stefan.id.au] has quit [Nick collision from services.] 01:35:47 *** stefan [i=stefan@home.stefan.id.au] has joined #openttd 01:36:23 <Bjarni> Tobin: eventually try revision 3669 (the one before the optimised video driver) and see what happens. It got the same warnings and I didn't touch that part of the code 01:36:47 <Bjarni> I will analyse the code for endian issues really soon though I don't see any reason why there should be any 01:36:55 <Bjarni> except that it fails, that is ;) 01:36:57 <Bjarni> goodnight 01:36:59 *** Bjarni [n=Bjarni@0x50a41666.virnxx14.adsl-dhcp.tele.dk] has quit ["Leaving"] 01:44:56 *** iridium`nh [n=iridium@host-84-9-199-48.bulldogdsl.com] has joined #openttd 01:45:38 *** Singaporekid [n=notme@cm93.epsilon121.maxonline.com.sg] has joined #openttd 01:47:11 *** coppercore_ [n=copperco@dpc691922010.direcpc.com] has joined #openttd 01:47:14 *** coppercore [n=copperco@dpc691922010.direcpc.com] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 01:47:32 *** coppercore_ is now known as coppercore 02:04:41 *** PAStheLoD [n=pas@catv-56656dbc.catv.broadband.hu] has quit ["( www.nnscript.de :: NoNameScript 4.01 :: www.XLhost.de )"] 02:13:18 *** stefan [i=stefan@home.stefan.id.au] has quit [Nick collision from services.] 02:13:28 *** stefan [i=stefan@home.stefan.id.au] has joined #openttd 02:19:55 *** Torrasque_ [n=chatzill@34.122.76.83.cust.bluewin.ch] has joined #openttd 02:21:01 *** ThePizzaKing [n=chatzill@c211-28-163-5.eburwd2.vic.optusnet.com.au] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 02:24:52 *** GoneWacko [n=gonewack@c18041.upc-c.chello.nl] has quit ["So long and thanks for all the fish"] 02:26:19 *** stefan [i=stefan@home.stefan.id.au] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 02:26:49 *** stefan [i=stefan@home.stefan.id.au] has joined #openttd 02:28:24 *** Singaporekid [n=notme@cm93.epsilon121.maxonline.com.sg] has quit ["Raah raah"] 02:31:54 *** iridium`nh [n=iridium@host-84-9-199-48.bulldogdsl.com] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 02:38:29 *** ^Cartman^ [n=Eric_Car@ti100710a081-3876.bb.online.no] has quit ["Que?"] 03:15:28 *** Osai [n=Osai@p54B34995.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 03:33:17 *** Torrasque_ [n=chatzill@34.122.76.83.cust.bluewin.ch] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 03:40:26 *** eQualize1 [i=lauri@dyn14-161.dsl.spy.dnainternet.fi] has joined #openttd 03:54:24 *** eQualizer [i=lauri@dyn12-172.dsl.spy.dnainternet.fi] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 03:54:24 *** eQualize1 is now known as eQualizer 04:09:37 *** stavrosg [n=stavrosg@athe730k-2073.otenet.gr] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 04:10:35 *** jnmbk [n=ugur@88.240.20.234] has joined #openttd 04:13:08 *** Angst [n=Angst@p549455AE.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit ["n8"] 05:08:54 *** Forexs [i=Forexs@x1-6-00-0f-b5-14-63-5f.k136.webspeed.dk] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 05:11:37 *** jnmbk [n=ugur@88.240.20.234] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 05:13:02 *** stefan [i=stefan@home.stefan.id.au] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 05:13:53 *** stefan [n=stefan@home.stefan.id.au] has joined #openttd 06:04:09 *** Tobin [n=Tobin@c211-28-197-129.eburwd7.vic.optusnet.com.au] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 06:19:10 *** ThePizzaKing [n=chatzill@c211-28-163-5.eburwd2.vic.optusnet.com.au] has joined #openttd 07:08:25 *** Aankhen`` [n=pockled@59.144.179.96] has joined #openttd 07:30:10 *** Nubian [n=nubian@mrkvovy.kokotko.sk] has joined #openttd 07:35:38 *** iridium`nh [n=iridium@host-84-9-199-48.bulldogdsl.com] has joined #openttd 07:48:10 *** Osai^2 [n=Osai@p54B3746B.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 07:50:36 *** stefan [n=stefan@home.stefan.id.au] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 07:51:20 *** stefan [i=stefan@home.stefan.id.au] has joined #openttd 08:02:54 *** Osai [n=Osai@p54B34995.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 08:06:36 <Tron> " I can tell you that - I've got it from reading the manual for a UNIX System V R4 (I recall it was FreeBSD)." 08:06:57 <Tron> where does this guy get this bullshit from? 08:07:22 <Tron> the BSDs are exactly not SysV derived 08:10:11 <Diablo-D3> is this the multithreading bullshit? 08:10:18 <Diablo-D3> sysv could multithread apps 08:10:30 <Diablo-D3> since the dawn of unix, apps could multithread 08:11:27 <Diablo-D3> (seeing as, you know, unix was designed to be a multi-process OS, and multithreading is a hop skip and a long jmp away from running multiple apps at once) 08:12:17 <Diablo-D3> you know what the cheapest way to do threads is? 08:12:59 <Diablo-D3> make the OS pretend its a new application, and the called function is really it's main(), but give it the main thread's memory space but with a new stack allocated elsewhere 08:13:12 <Diablo-D3> (there are people who will shoot me for that simplifaction, but you get the idea) 08:14:37 <Tron> <Diablo-D3> since the dawn of unix, apps could multithread <--- er, no 08:15:28 <Diablo-D3> Tron: exggaguration 08:15:36 <Tron> by ten years 08:15:47 <Diablo-D3> unix multithreading is still older than I am 08:15:50 <Diablo-D3> and I'm 22. 08:16:19 <Tron> breaking news: world existed before Diablo-D3's birth! 08:16:40 <Diablo-D3> Tron: gasp! no shit! 08:16:48 *** Bjarni [n=Bjarni@0x5358901d.virnxx14.adsl-dhcp.tele.dk] has joined #openttd 08:16:49 *** mode/#openttd [+o Bjarni] by ChanServ 08:16:49 <Diablo-D3> when I was born I created the universe in my image! 08:17:02 <Diablo-D3> and then I created a planet full of people! 08:17:32 <Diablo-D3> and then you fuckers couldnt shut up about it 08:17:42 <Diablo-D3> you can stick your religion up your ass 08:18:00 <Tron> Bjarni: + PPC_CC:=$(shell ls /usr/bin/powerpc-apple-darwin*-gcc* | tail -n 1) 08:18:07 <Tron> that's overcomplicated 08:18:08 *** iridium`nh [n=iridium@host-84-9-199-48.bulldogdsl.com] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 08:18:15 <Tron> echo /usr/bin/powerpc-apple-darwin*-gcc* 08:18:21 <Diablo-D3> lol 08:18:26 <ThePizzaKing> Why would I want to put religion in my donkey? 08:18:58 <Diablo-D3> ThePizzaKing: the same reason you have a donkey as a mascot for a political party 08:19:16 <Bjarni> Tron: what if somebody got two different versions of GCC installed. I only want one of them ;) 08:19:27 <Tron> i just meant the ls 08:19:35 <ThePizzaKing> yeah, vote one Jeff, I mean ThePizzaKing, my real name isn't Jeff 08:19:53 <Tron> you of course have to fill in the stuff around it 08:21:30 <ThePizzaKing> Vote no for Republic, stay in the British Empire, because the queen's cool :) 08:22:21 <Bjarni> Tron: ok it's just two different ways to get the same info. Both appears to work 08:23:19 <Bjarni> Tron: however there is one thing I really wonder about. video/cocoa_v.m:1498.... memcpy crashes on x86 OSX but works on PPC OSX 08:23:25 <Bjarni> and I have no idea why 08:24:52 <Bjarni> I get some warnings when compiling for x86, but it turns out that they were present even before this change and AFAIK it worked before the rewrite of QZ_DrawScreen() 08:24:53 <Tron> of course it works, you can go to your neighbour the other way round the world, that would work, too, it's just a 40.000km longer way 08:25:24 <Tron> and the warnings are? (why do i always have to explicitly ask this?) 08:25:45 <Bjarni> I was actually getting them right now 08:25:45 <Bjarni> video/cocoa_v.m:850: warning: 'LockPortBits' is deprecated (declared at /Developer/SDKs/MacOSX10.4u.sdk/System/Library/Frameworks/ApplicationServices.framework/Frameworks/QD.framework/Headers/Quickdraw.h:1652) 08:25:45 <Bjarni> video/cocoa_v.m:852: warning: 'GetPixBaseAddr' is deprecated (declared at /Developer/SDKs/MacOSX10.4u.sdk/System/Library/Frameworks/ApplicationServices.framework/Frameworks/QD.framework/Headers/QDOffscreen.h:364) 08:25:48 <Bjarni> stuff like that 08:30:07 <Bjarni> http://pastebin.com/572968 <-- that's all of them 08:31:38 <Tron> the first assignment of height is unused 08:31:58 <Tron> you assign num_dirty_rects, then you don't use it in the test for == 0 08:32:52 <Bjarni> fixed 08:33:30 <Bjarni> but that's not the cause of the crash... I don't get why it works on PPC and fails on Intel 08:33:50 <Bjarni> since it's internal stuff, it should not be affected by endian issues 08:35:00 <Tron> case NSLeftMouseDown: 08:35:08 <Tron> something seems wrong aroud there (about line 520) 08:36:05 <Tron> what kind of crash, i need more information 08:37:13 *** ^Cartman^ [n=Eric_Car@ti100710a081-3876.bb.online.no] has joined #openttd 08:37:51 <Bjarni> I understood it as read/write outside of the array, but Tobin left in the middle of the bug investigation :( 08:38:07 <Tron> *sigh* 08:38:13 <Tron> the exact symptoms 08:38:26 <Tron> SIGBUS, SIGSEGV 08:38:57 <Tron> what does the debugger say? about the addresses? 08:39:03 <Tron> s/?// 08:40:41 * Bjarni opens the log from last night 08:41:37 <Tron> does it always crash? immediatly? or just after some time? 08:41:54 <Bjarni> Seg fault 08:41:55 <peter1138> mornninginging 08:41:57 <Bjarni> that's all he said 08:42:10 <Tron> (btw: do you properly handle resizing? i.e. do you clear the dirty rect list) 08:42:35 <Tron> peter1138 knows how two start writing "morning", he just doesn't know when to stop 08:43:03 <Bjarni> sounds like an old record with a scratch in it 08:43:27 <Tron> you mean thos big, black, analog CDs? 08:44:25 *** tokai [n=tokai@p54B8483E.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #openttd 08:44:56 <peter1138> :) 08:45:02 <peter1138> Bjarni: "main()" ? 08:45:41 <Tron> Bjarni: does the destination buffer have to be locked? is it properly locked? 08:47:43 <Bjarni> hmm 08:47:51 <Bjarni> good question 08:48:34 <Bjarni> but if that is the problem, then why did it used to work and why do it work for PPC 08:51:28 <Bjarni> video/cocoa_v.m:847: warning: 'GetPixBaseAddr' is deprecated (declared at /Developer/SDKs/MacOSX10.4u.sdk/System/Library/Frameworks/ApplicationServices.framework/Frameworks/QD.framework/Headers/QDOffscreen.h:364) 08:51:38 <Bjarni> it actually could look like this is the cause of it 08:51:51 <Bjarni> it might try to write the bytes in the wrong place 08:52:01 <Bjarni> now the question is how to get rid of those warnings 08:52:13 <Tron> <Bjarni> but if that is the problem, then why did it used to work and why do it work for PPC <-- it's called "pure luck" 08:53:27 <Tron> "Any QuickDraw routines that your application uses after calling GetPixBaseAddr may change the base address for the offscreen pixel image." 08:54:08 *** tokai [n=tokai@p54B8483E.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit ["It's like, wah."] 08:54:13 <Tron> "If the offscreen buffer has been purged, GetPixBaseAddr returns NIL." 08:54:44 <Bjarni> what exactly does it mean that it's "deprecated"? 08:55:04 <Diablo-D3> Tron: that sounds a lot like directdraw 08:55:17 <Diablo-D3> thank god I use SDL which fixes all of that 08:55:48 <Tron> Bjarni: you shouldn't use it, because it will go away in the future 08:56:10 <Bjarni> ok... 08:56:31 <Bjarni> that leaves a real problem in this driver 08:57:39 <Tron> Darkvater: wake up, you lazy mutt 08:59:57 *** tokai [n=tokai@p54B8483E.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #openttd 09:05:35 *** ThePizzaKing [n=chatzill@c211-28-163-5.eburwd2.vic.optusnet.com.au] has quit ["Let's got to London!!!"] 09:07:08 *** ThePizzaKing [n=chatzill@c211-28-163-5.eburwd2.vic.optusnet.com.au] has joined #openttd 09:08:24 *** GoneWacko [n=gonewack@c18041.upc-c.chello.nl] has joined #openttd 09:12:15 *** Celaway is now known as Celestar 09:12:31 *** Wolfensteijn [n=wolf@a61229.upc-a.chello.nl] has quit ["( www.nnscript.de :: NoNameScript 3.81 :: www.XLhost.de )"] 09:25:37 *** angerman [n=angerman@e181079229.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #openttd 09:27:03 * peter1138 ponders patches with irrelevant changes 09:27:08 <peter1138> -if (sprite != 0) { 09:27:08 <peter1138> +if (sprite) { 09:27:14 <peter1138> like that's so useful o_O 09:27:50 <Buggi> that's just bad programming 09:27:52 <hylje> unbloat 09:28:11 <peter1138> i suspect that's someone merging their patch but not quite understanding what they're doing... 09:28:48 *** |Jeroen| [n=users@dD57729A7.access.telenet.be] has joined #openttd 09:29:07 <hylje> i think if (thing) {} is more readable than if (thing != 0) {} 09:29:11 <hylje> :| 09:29:36 <peter1138> only if thing is a boolean 09:29:49 <angerman> hmm does anyone know who runs the Darksoon server? 09:29:57 <angerman> They kinda need a reboot i'd say. 09:30:13 <angerman> they are running 2090 now for over a day... 09:31:54 * angerman thought OTTD would restart the game automatically ... :/ 09:32:28 <peter1138> only if it's told to 09:33:05 <angerman> so one has to wait for the server admin to restart the game, huh= 09:34:47 <peter1138> yes...? 09:34:59 <angerman> damn ... 09:35:17 <angerman> why can't there be some *voting* system? 09:35:18 <Tron> hylje: if (cheese_is_tasty) vs. if (colour_of_house) 09:35:24 <peter1138> - * @param f weight 09:35:26 <peter1138> + * @arapm f weight# 09:35:27 <peter1138> hmm 09:35:29 <Tron> the latter just makes no sense 09:35:39 <peter1138> updating patch == reverting trunk changes? heh 09:35:43 <angerman> like say: if all player from all companies vote for a restart... 09:37:10 <hylje> Tron: well yes, badly written vars usually dont make any sense. the colour_of_house should be house_is_coloured 09:37:20 <Tron> no, no 09:37:29 <Tron> the variable is supposed to hold the colour of a house 09:37:41 <Tron> the same thing as for the sprite thing peter1138 mentioned 09:37:52 <hylje> :/ false if uncoloured, colour if coloured 09:37:57 <Tron> no 09:38:06 <Tron> sprite doesn't contain if it is a sprite 09:38:12 <Tron> it is a sprite number 09:38:18 <Tron> same for the house colour 09:38:30 <hylje> yes? 09:38:45 <Tron> if (colour_of_house) makes no sense 09:38:50 <hylje> i thought anything but "",0,false is true as in perl 09:38:53 <Tron> if (colour_of_house != BLACK) is sensible 09:39:11 <Tron> of course it is, but from a semantic point it doesn't make sense 09:39:23 <Tron> maybe the symbolic name BLACK equals 0 09:39:58 <Tron> but if you just read if (colour_of_house) you have to know that to get the interpretation that it test if the house has not the colour black 09:40:23 <Tron> that's Bad Style(tm) 09:43:16 <Tron> peter1138: what patch are you looking at? 09:44:17 <peter1138> the physics acceleration one 09:44:38 <peter1138> i think i'll give up and ask him to learn how to update stuff... 09:47:37 *** Spoco [n=Spoco@dsl-062-197-163-31.lohjanpuhelin.fi] has joined #openttd 09:52:23 *** Mukke [n=Mukke@x1-6-00-02-1e-f6-09-41.k607.webspeed.dk] has joined #openttd 10:04:56 *** jnmbk [n=ugur@85.107.164.177] has joined #openttd 10:05:07 *** Wolfensteijn [n=wolf@a61229.upc-a.chello.nl] has joined #openttd 10:10:23 *** stavrosg [n=stavrosg@athe730k-2073.otenet.gr] has joined #OpenTTD 10:12:21 *** FR^2 [n=frquadra@e180009242.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #openttd 10:15:19 *** thgergo [n=th_gergo@dsl51B789A5.pool.t-online.hu] has joined #openttd 10:22:08 *** FR^2 [n=frquadra@e180009242.adsl.alicedsl.de] has left #openttd ["Connection reset by caffein depletion..."] 10:36:03 *** DJ_Mirage [n=djmirage@biggetje.xs4all.nl] has joined #openttd 10:39:25 *** Singaporekid [n=notme@cm93.epsilon121.maxonline.com.sg] has joined #openttd 10:41:44 *** GoneWacko [n=gonewack@c18041.upc-c.chello.nl] has quit ["So long and thanks for all the fish"] 10:43:03 *** GoneWacko [n=gonewack@c18041.upc-c.chello.nl] has joined #openttd 10:45:17 *** angerman [n=angerman@e181079229.adsl.alicedsl.de] has left #openttd [] 10:46:56 *** GoneWacko^ [n=gonewack@c18041.upc-c.chello.nl] has joined #openttd 10:46:56 *** GoneWacko [n=gonewack@c18041.upc-c.chello.nl] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 10:47:33 *** Osai^2 is now known as Osai 10:49:04 *** Xeryus|sleep is now known as XeryusTC 10:52:56 *** Jenkz [n=nobody@80-192-44-21.stb.ubr05.dund.blueyonder.co.uk] has joined #openttd 10:55:18 <Tron> hmhm, you can remove the roads when there are road works 10:55:37 <Tron> and then build other stuff, a bulldozer on a piece of rail looks interesting 10:55:51 *** stefan [i=stefan@home.stefan.id.au] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 10:58:58 *** stefan [i=stefan@home.stefan.id.au] has joined #openttd 11:00:35 <Tron> ok, which brainiac added the "depend" target to the list of targets which should not depend on the dependency files? 11:01:29 * tokai wasn't it. :) 11:02:14 *** A1win [i=a1win@loota.fi] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 11:03:23 <Bjarni> hmm 11:03:34 <Bjarni> tokai was the only one to reply to that question 11:03:35 <Bjarni> :p 11:04:45 <hylje> thus everyone but tokai is guilty 11:05:09 <Bjarni> ok 11:05:14 * Bjarni blames hylje 11:05:30 <tokai> i have clean hands, because i have no svn access:) 11:05:41 <Bjarni> hmm 11:05:47 <Bjarni> prove that 11:05:54 <Diablo-D3> I have dirty hands, but I was eating fried chicken 11:06:09 <Diablo-D3> fried chicken repells soap, i kid you not 11:06:17 <Diablo-D3> you can only wear the grease off 11:06:18 <Tron> "Can't remove road from here... road reconstruction is in progress" <-- is this acceptable english (the part after the ...) 11:06:21 *** A1win [i=a1win@loota.fi] has joined #openttd 11:06:33 <tokai> Tron: for me, yes. 11:06:34 <Vornicus> looks fine to me. 11:06:44 <tokai> Triffid_Hunter: would work w/o is too 11:06:54 <tokai> road reconstruction in progress 11:07:05 <tokai> i think:) but i'm not native speaker 11:07:10 <Diablo-D3> tokai is right, actually 11:07:21 <Diablo-D3> road reconstruction in progress is more formal 11:07:22 <Tron> tokai: your TLD is .de, so i rank your opinion as bad as mine (; 11:07:31 <Diablo-D3> and change Can't to Cannot 11:07:40 <Tron> that string already exists 11:07:51 <Diablo-D3> then it needs to be changed 11:07:58 <Diablo-D3> Can't is a horrible thing to use in computer programs 11:08:03 *** stefan [i=stefan@home.stefan.id.au] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 11:08:05 <Bjarni> <Diablo-D3> you can only wear the grease off <-- then you have never been in a workshop with grease and oil and stuff like that. Surely you can get it off, but you might need something stronger than normal soap 11:08:10 <Prof_Frink> Cannot remove obstacles on land! 11:08:19 <Diablo-D3> Bjarni: I swear I'm getting some of that industrial shit 11:08:20 *** stefan [i=stefan@home.stefan.id.au] has joined #openttd 11:08:25 <Diablo-D3> Bjarni: just for when I have fried chicken 11:08:55 *** GoneWacko^ [n=gonewack@c18041.upc-c.chello.nl] has quit ["So long and thanks for all the fish"] 11:10:06 <Bjarni> Diablo-D3: it's enough just to get something like they have at car repair shops, not some fancy industrial stuff... that could be overkill and unhealthy for your hands 11:10:52 <Bjarni> one way to solve this issue is to use some soap with sand in it. The sand will tear the surface of the fat and then the soap can do it's work to get it off 11:11:13 *** eQualize1 [i=lauri@dyn12-172.dsl.spy.dnainternet.fi] has joined #openttd 11:11:15 <Bjarni> tip: don't go outside to get regular sand... it might have side effects 11:12:53 <ThePizzaKing> On the other hand, if you do go out and get it, there might be cat poo in it and you wouldn't have to pay for the soap part. 11:15:30 <Bjarni> so you think cat poo is better than chicken grease? 11:16:08 <ThePizzaKing> depends 11:16:31 <Bjarni> ahh found the issue on x86 OSX 11:16:40 <Bjarni> they didn't port the lib to x86, only PPC 11:16:52 <Bjarni> that could explain the crash on x86 OSX 11:17:19 <Bjarni> now the question is: what to do instead 11:18:57 <Bjarni> maybe eglandil made a wise choice by leaving for a few days.... adding PPC only carbon libs to a universal cocoa driver.... that's a big don't 11:18:59 <Bjarni> ;) 11:19:38 *** Mukke [n=Mukke@x1-6-00-02-1e-f6-09-41.k607.webspeed.dk] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 11:23:50 *** eQualizer [i=lauri@dyn14-161.dsl.spy.dnainternet.fi] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 11:23:51 *** eQualize1 is now known as eQualizer 11:24:09 *** jnmbk [n=ugur@85.107.164.177] has quit ["Konversation terminated!"] 11:26:56 *** stefan [i=stefan@home.stefan.id.au] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 11:26:57 *** Fujitsu [n=fujitsu@c211-28-183-112.eburwd7.vic.optusnet.com.au] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 11:27:42 *** A1win [i=a1win@loota.fi] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 11:27:49 *** A1win [i=a1win@loota.fi] has joined #openttd 11:29:22 *** ThePizzaKing [n=chatzill@c211-28-163-5.eburwd2.vic.optusnet.com.au] has quit ["Let's got to London!!!"] 11:29:30 <Bjarni> why London? 11:34:39 *** AmiX2 [n=Michal@90.80-203-44.nextgentel.com] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 11:36:07 *** stefan [i=stefan@home.stefan.id.au] has joined #openttd 11:38:35 *** Scia [n=Scia@AveloN.xs4all.nl] has joined #openttd 11:47:39 *** GoneWacko [n=gonewack@c18041.upc-c.chello.nl] has joined #openttd 11:52:31 *** DarkSSH [n=plop@5354EC24.cable.casema.nl] has joined #openttd 11:52:35 <DarkSSH> Ok, this sucks :( 11:52:49 <DarkSSH> I can't log into the university comp to reattach Darkvater 11:53:13 <Bjarni> we got a runaway 11:53:26 <Bjarni> :p 11:53:30 <Bjarni> why do it fail? 11:53:36 <DarkSSH> jlaksjf 239084rfj 11:53:41 <Bjarni> ahh 11:53:45 *** mode/#openttd [+o DarkSSH] by ChanServ 11:53:45 <Bjarni> I know that problem 11:53:49 <DarkSSH> fucking nickserv 11:54:30 <Bjarni> do anybody know how it is going with the 32 bit graphic engine? 11:54:50 <Bjarni> I need it 11:55:02 <Bjarni> but for a totally different reason than everybody else :p 11:55:43 <Bjarni> I just learned that we need to get rid of the QuickDraw stuff in the cocoa video driver since they are stopping support on it and it fucks up on x86 OSX 11:56:11 <Bjarni> but if we use Quartz instead as we are told to do, we can't use 8 bit coloured stuff anymore :( 11:56:36 <Bjarni> it's like they didn't think that anybody needed it anymore 11:57:38 <Tron> why can't you use it? 11:57:50 <Tron> (8 bit stuff) 11:58:05 <Bjarni> their 8 bit support is limited to grayscale 11:58:15 <Tron> and the problem is? 11:58:29 <Bjarni> I don't want to play OTTD in grayscale 11:58:45 <Celestar> bah 11:58:47 <hylje> then port the gfx to 16 or 32bit 11:58:49 <Celestar> I hate changing vehicle.h 11:58:58 <Tron> surface_with_32bpp[pixel_coordinate] = palette_8_to_32[internal_ottd_framebuffer[pixel_coordinate]] 11:59:12 <Bjarni> hylje: that's what I started to say 11:59:30 <Tron> which basically already happens in windowed mode in your Quartz backend 11:59:55 <Bjarni> and it really eats CPU power 12:00:07 <Tron> not more than on any other platform, which does that 12:00:58 <hylje> eats either cpu power or memory 12:01:16 <hylje> depending where the porting happens 12:01:50 <Tron> we still need palette animation, so an internal 32bpp framebuffer is not feasible 12:04:04 *** e1ko [n=31k0@a02-0432c.kn.vutbr.cz] has joined #openttd 12:04:05 <Bjarni> but if the conversion is done in the game and is sending out 32 bit, it needs to redraw everything every time the palette changes 12:05:25 <Tron> uh... where's the news? 12:05:28 <Tron> that already happens 12:05:33 <Bjarni> yeah 12:05:36 <Vornicus> is the palette change deterministic? 12:05:54 <Tron> the moment you don't have an 8bpp surface we do this 12:06:03 <Bjarni> but in full screen it changes OS settings to 8 bit and tells the OS about the palette 12:06:05 <Bjarni> much faster 12:06:13 <Tron> Vornicus: it happens every soandso many ticks 12:06:34 <Tron> Bjarni: and? if that's not possible, it's not possible 12:06:50 <Vornicus> If so you can prerender the various repaletted things in 32bpp and use those. 12:07:00 <DarkSSH> *pom*pom* and it turns out cocoa isn't faster at all ;P 12:07:31 <Bjarni> DarkSSH: SDL will end up having the same issue 12:07:47 <DarkSSH> there goes the 10000% speed increase ^^ 12:07:51 <Bjarni> which might also be why I had so many problems with SDL for the x86 port 12:08:05 <Bjarni> DarkSSH: it's only 1000% 12:08:26 <Tron> 1000%? i doubt that very much 12:08:31 <DarkSSH> blathijs: you were busy with the makefile, right? Does this tell you anything, or what the expected outcome should be? http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?p=410796#410796 12:08:34 <Tron> the SDL guys are not complete morons 12:09:19 <Kuja^> <@Bjarni> but in full screen it changes OS settings to 8 bit and tells the OS about the palette <- oh ok, now i know why it is looking wired when i use alt + tab in fullscreen :D 12:09:21 <Bjarni> the 1000% speed increase was when I changed the cocoa driver to only redraw dirty rectangles instead of the whole screen all the time 12:09:50 <Tron> uh, that was a bug in your cocoa driver 12:09:56 <Bjarni> sending 32 bit to the system will make me send the whole frame each time and kill that speed 12:09:57 <Tron> the SDL driver already handles this correctly 12:10:09 <Bjarni> yeah and using 32 bit will implement that bug again 12:10:16 <Tron> huh? 12:10:33 <Tron> i don't understand 12:11:01 <Bjarni> whenever the palette changes, all the new colours needs to be redrawn 12:11:10 <Tron> and the bug being? 12:11:20 <Celestar> something with multistop is really really faulty 12:11:27 <Bjarni> which means it takes ages to copy the whole frame buffer 12:11:34 <DarkSSH> Celestar: morning :) 12:11:38 <Bjarni> and it takes even longer if it is 32 bit instead of 8 bit 12:11:43 <Tron> maybe i repeat myself, but: and the bug being? 12:11:53 <Bjarni> it takes ages 12:12:10 <DarkSSH> Bjarni: if it needs to be done because there is no other possibility it needs to be done. You can do nothing about it 12:12:26 <DarkSSH> the fact that for example Windows does this for you automatically doesn't mean it's not happening 12:12:46 <Tron> look, it's quite complicated and resource intensive to shoot somebody to the moon, but nobody says it's a bug in the universe that it so diffcult 12:13:14 <Tron> the graphics system of OSX is the universe in this case 12:13:36 <Tron> and if there is no other way, there is no other way (what genious insight!) 12:13:47 <hylje> clever 12:13:57 <Tron> that's no bug, it's just the way it is 12:13:58 *** PAStheLoD [n=pas@catv-56656dbc.catv.broadband.hu] has joined #openttd 12:14:13 <Bjarni> it's lack of creativity 12:14:15 <Celestar> morning DarkSSH 12:14:26 <Celestar> DarkSSH: doing progress :) 12:14:38 <Celestar> bbl food 12:14:44 <DarkSSH> I read the !mail thingie. Good thing I was there in time because I don't get any email fromthere 12:14:50 <Bjarni> one solution would be to mark places with animated pixels dirty when the palette changes 12:15:14 <Tron> Bjarni: walking this list takes even longer than just unconditionally dumping the whole screen 12:15:15 *** SchAmane [n=schamane@p5498D691.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 12:15:29 <DarkSSH> Bjarni: I don't see the big problem though. Every other OS has to do this when openttd is running in a 32bit environment 12:16:13 <Bjarni> the problem is that the cocoa driver used 75% of the time allocated to OTTD to just copy the frame when it copied the whole frame each time 12:16:19 <Bjarni> that's too slow 12:24:11 *** Angst [n=Angst@p54946C36.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 12:31:05 <blathijs> DarkSSH: dunno, it might be that he didn't use those settings when making, only when make installing or something 12:31:15 <blathijs> we need a show-paths command line option :-) 12:31:45 <DarkSSH> we need a trimming on all the braindead paths :) 12:31:54 <DarkSSH> data_dir, second_data_dir? jezus 12:31:55 <blathijs> trimming? 12:32:04 <blathijs> ah :-) 12:32:12 <DarkSSH> all it needs imho is 12:32:13 <blathijs> wel, we need a data_dirs option then ;-) 12:32:14 <Bjarni> DarkSSH: the mac port uses both data paths by default 12:32:46 <DarkSSH> PREFIX, CUSTOM_DATA_DIR and PERSONAL_DIR 12:32:47 <blathijs> DarkSSH: enables per-user newgrf I guess 12:32:51 <Bjarni> well one of them is working dir, but still, it needs two data dirs 12:32:55 <DarkSSH> prefix is where the game gets installed with all its data files 12:33:06 <DarkSSH> custom_data_dir is for your own personal newgrf files 12:33:09 <DarkSSH> hmm not even 12:33:21 <blathijs> prefix should be prefixed to everything, not just datadir 12:33:34 <blathijs> ie, /usr/local 12:33:37 <DarkSSH> only PREFIX and PERSONAL_DIR. Prefix is where the game gets installed and Personal_dir where saves, config, newgrf gets saved 12:33:54 <DarkSSH> I think imho this is the only two you need 12:33:57 <blathijs> yes, but other stuff should be configurable too 12:34:06 <blathijs> where under prefix to install things? 12:34:18 <DarkSSH> prefix would be /usr/local/openttd 12:34:20 <DarkSSH> for example 12:34:22 <Bjarni> all the path options were added by request, so I guess some people use them. The problem is that now we got so many options that nobody can figure them out 12:34:28 <DarkSSH> it is <prefix>/openttd 12:34:39 <blathijs> /usr/local/games/openttd/data for datafiles, but /usr/local/share/icons for icons perhaps 12:35:01 <DarkSSH> /usr/local/games/openttd/data <-- yes if /usr/local/games is PREFIX 12:35:21 <blathijs> no, because icons don't go into /usr/local/games 12:35:23 <DarkSSH> ok and an icon dir for the hardcore gamers 12:35:26 <blathijs> (on debian anyway) 12:35:28 <blathijs> :-) 12:36:06 * Vornicus personally hates the very existence of /usr/local. 12:37:23 <Bjarni> LOL, nobody replied to Horse.... his question was yelling for no reply after all :) 12:37:44 <Bjarni> "I know you can't build vehicles before 1920, but how do I make vehicles, that starts before that date?" 12:37:50 <blathijs> ah, /usr/games for the binary, /usr/share/games/openttd for the data, /usr/share/pixmaps for the icons on debian :-) 12:38:06 <blathijs> So, stuff needs configurability, but the essential point is that there needs to be a sane default 12:38:18 <blathijs> you need to be able to do make install and it should Just Work 12:38:42 <peter1138> Celestar: yes, it is :/ 12:38:44 <Bjarni> yeah while you should still be able to just run the game as you do now in the same dir 12:38:50 <blathijs> yup 12:38:58 <peter1138> i've got a 3 stop station with 1 full stop and 2 stops with 1 space free 12:39:12 <peter1138> i have an rv that loops but keeps trying to go to the full stop 12:39:38 <DarkSSH> blathijs: your first two would be solved by just using PREFIX=/usr/share. data goes into /usr/share/openttd/data binary to /usr/share/openttd 12:41:04 <Vornicus> Bjarni: I think his question shows a misunderstanding of why there's no vehicles before 1920. 12:44:11 *** Torrasque_ [n=chatzill@229.112.76.83.cust.bluewin.ch] has joined #openttd 12:48:54 <DarkSSH> http://darkvater.openttd.org/makefile_install.txt 12:49:01 <DarkSSH> ok read and weep 12:49:03 <DarkSSH> weap 12:49:04 <DarkSSH> ? 12:59:41 <Tron> the less magic in the Makefile the better 13:02:48 <DarkSSH> hmm... I am not that knowledgable in *nix conventions...but probably there needs to be a DATA_DIR or something as well cause you don't seem to put the binary in the same place as the data 13:03:53 <Tron> the binary normally goes to some directoy designated for binaries, /usr/local/games on most systems for ottd 13:04:35 <Tron> the data typically in /usr/local/share/$NAME (share, if it's machine independent data, think of NFS exported file systems) 13:04:59 * Tron is away: lunch 13:20:03 <Bjarni> <DarkSSH> http://darkvater.openttd.org/makefile_install.txt <-- nice solution except it will break the bundle build on OSX 13:20:34 <DarkSSH> Bjarni: wait, rewriting 13:20:37 <Bjarni> it uses working dir for everything except the 2nd data dir and lang dir 13:21:05 <Bjarni> so I need access to set those two and still use the working dir for everything else 13:22:35 * Tron is back (gone 00:17:35) 13:25:58 *** AKX [i=akx@a84-230-248-170.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has joined #openttd 13:26:25 <AKX> Hey... eh, I need a bit of gameplay help... How can I build any stations near cities? I always get "refuses to allow this".. 13:26:45 <DarkSSH> Bjarni: http://darkvater.openttd.org/makefile_install.txt 13:27:00 <Triffid_Hunter> AKX: that usually happens when you've blown up too many roads or buildings and the city council gets annoyed with you 13:27:13 <Vornicus> So you have to make them happy. 13:27:16 <Vornicus> Trees help. 13:27:19 <AKX> OK... Trees. 13:27:22 <AKX> How many trees? 13:27:28 <Vornicus> Cheesetons of trees. 13:27:32 <AKX> Very well. 13:28:00 <AKX> TREES, TONDBOROUGH BAY! PREPARE FOR THE INVASION OF TREES! Mwhahahaha! 13:28:30 <Bjarni> DarkSSH: it will still break the bundle :( 13:28:48 <tokai> DarkSSH: for morphos all must go to progdir: (aka the same dir the binary is), btw. 13:29:07 <DarkSSH> tokai: you can set that in my example 13:29:08 <DarkSSH> Bjarni: why? 13:29:09 <AKX> OK, I can't even make anymore trees.. and still no dice 13:29:10 <Tron> Bjarni: what exactly is necessary for a bundle? what is a "bundle" anyway? 13:29:20 *** jnmbk [n=ugur@85.107.164.177] has joined #openttd 13:29:30 <Vornicus> Come back later, then. 13:29:33 <Vornicus> a bundle is a packaged binary. 13:29:49 <tokai> DarkSSH: the path will be compiled into the bin, then it will not work. there is no "." dir in MorphOS. 13:29:54 <Bjarni> the bundle is a directory containing the binary, icon, app info and so on 13:30:01 <tokai> +If 13:30:09 <Vornicus> It includes OS X binaries for PPC and x86, the public GRFs, and other data. 13:30:28 <Bjarni> other data is all the lng files 13:30:29 <Tron> Bjarni: so basically all path variable DarkSSH mentioned are set to the same value? 13:30:44 <Bjarni> no 13:30:58 <Vornicus> nope. The bundle is actually a directory in its own right. 13:31:01 <Bjarni> everything is set to the working dir except 2nd data dir and lang path 13:31:11 <DarkSSH> tokai: hmm I might change the default setting though. setting DATA_DIR is an absolute path, and setting nothing will go to prefix/share/whatever 13:31:14 <Tron> i don't understand 13:31:19 <Tron> tokai: uh... WTF?! 13:31:22 <DarkSSH> Bjarni: you can change the bundle no? 13:31:38 <Bjarni> I can, but it would spoil the drag-n-drop installer 13:31:43 <tokai> <flood> 13:31:46 <tokai> misc:downloads/openttd-0.4.5-morphos> dir 13:31:46 <tokai> data (dir) 13:31:51 <DarkSSH> Bjarni: you can change the drag&drop installer, no? 13:31:51 <tokai> docs (dir) 13:31:53 <tokai> lang (dir) 13:31:56 <tokai> scenario (dir) 13:31:56 <tokai> save (dir) 13:32:01 <tokai> docs.info hs.dat 13:32:01 <tokai> openttd openttd.cfg 13:32:06 <tokai> openttd.info 13:32:07 <tokai> </flood> 13:32:11 <Bjarni> DarkSSH: then people will complain for making a simple task overly complicated 13:32:18 <Bjarni> and people would include me 13:32:25 <tokai> there is nothing openttd related outside the openttd dir (similiar like the bundle on osx) 13:32:36 <DarkSSH> tokai: so it would be example1 but with some exception on the DATA_DIR=. 13:32:37 <Tron> Bjarni: i still don't understand what the problem is, please be more specific 13:32:42 <blathijs> DarkSSH: You need a BIN_DIR, as Tron suggested. Also, where is the USE_HOMEDIR option? 13:32:54 <blathijs> and I need an ICON_DIR for debian installs 13:33:03 <DarkSSH> blathijs: ..have you read the file? 13:33:08 <tokai> DarkSSH: "." doesnt work in morphos 13:33:15 <DarkSSH> there is PREFIX, DATA_DIR, PERSONAL_DIR and ICON_DIR 13:33:18 <DarkSSH> tokai: but besides that 13:33:26 <Bjarni> yeah USE_HOMEDIR went missing. You need to use that one to make the game get the homedir at runtime instead of at compile time ;) 13:33:30 <tokai> it does, but only in ixemul (unix emulation layer), but openttd doesnt use that. 13:33:37 <Bjarni> writing some stuff about bundles... one moment 13:33:44 <Tron> tokai: and how do you refer to the directory you're in atm? 13:33:54 <DarkSSH> PERSONAL_DIR *IS* HOME_DIR 13:34:04 <blathijs> DarkSSH: sorry, missed the the ICON dir 13:34:15 <tokai> Tron: "" ? :) which translates to PROGDIR: (the dir from which a process is launched) 13:34:30 <blathijs> DarkSSH: yes, but how to tell whether to put ~/ before homedir? 13:34:41 <Tron> don't use ~ 13:34:46 <Tron> that's shell magic 13:34:50 <tokai> current way works.. but if "." gets compiled into bin, it will break. 13:34:57 <blathijs> Tron: conceptually :-) 13:35:13 <DarkSSH> http://darkvater.openttd.org/makefile_install.txt 13:35:19 <DarkSSH> oops 13:35:37 <blathijs> DarkSSH: also, you should specify some sane defaults, which is the key to making this work :-) 13:35:39 *** RoySmeding [i=1000@c514451cb.cable.wanadoo.nl] has joined #openttd 13:35:59 <DarkSSH> blathijs: isn't your HOME_DIR an absolute path? 13:36:06 <Tron> "or example when PREFIX is /usr/local/ the OpenTTD binary gets put in there (/usr/local/openttd(.exe)" <--- not good 13:36:20 <DarkSSH> const char *homedir = getenv("HOME"); <-- this tells me /home/tfarago 13:36:22 <Tron> the default binary directory should be $PREFIX/games 13:36:24 <blathijs> DarkSSH: It should depend on the user running the game, of cours 13:36:44 <Tron> DarkSSH: this should work on all *nix work-alikes, i'm not sure about windows though 13:36:45 <DarkSSH> Tron: I am not good with defaults, just wrote something down as an example-default 13:36:53 <blathijs> Tron: I think $PREFIX/$BIN_DIR would be better.. 13:37:29 <DarkSSH> but to continue my point (forgetting icon_dir) for a moment, prefix, data_dir and personal_dir should be enough 13:37:32 <Tron> BIN_DIR should be an absolute path 13:37:34 <DarkSSH> more than enough either 13:37:52 <Tron> PREFIX (defaulting to /usr/local) 13:38:04 <Tron> BIN_DIR (defaulting to $PREFIX/games) 13:38:19 <Bjarni> http://pastebin.com/573166 <-- I think this explains what goes on 13:38:22 <Tron> DATA_DIR (defaulting to $PREFIX/share/openttd) 13:38:35 <Tron> PERSONAL_DIR should probably be scrapped 13:38:57 <Tron> try to get $HOME (or similar for other systems) and if not availible use the current directory 13:39:12 <DarkSSH> Bjarni: I can live with dropping backwards compatibility if it solves the confusion we have currently 13:39:20 <hylje> $HOME/.ottd ? 13:39:25 <Tron> blathijs: what would be a good default path for icons? $PREFIX/...? 13:39:48 <blathijs> dunno, debian uses $PREFIX/share/pixmap 13:39:50 <blathijs> s 13:40:25 <Bjarni> DarkSSH: I didn't say it have to be unchanged in the makefile, just that the end result have to be the same 13:40:30 <Tron> blathijs: that sounds sensible 13:41:17 <blathijs> Tron: though FHS doesn't say anything about icons 13:41:18 <Bjarni> if we change how the bundle works, then we will drown in people asking why drag-n-drop was removed 13:41:24 <blathijs> AFAICT 13:41:50 <Tron> $PREFIX/share/pixmaps is good for me 13:41:58 <blathijs> Tron: PERSONAL_DIR should probably stay I guess 13:42:06 <blathijs> defaulting to .openttd 13:42:14 <Tron> what for? 13:42:33 <blathijs> either that or we hardcode the .openttd directory name in the Makefile 13:42:34 <Tron> multiuser systems have some kind of $HOME 13:42:43 <blathijs> and probably be prefixed (at runtime) with your homedir 13:42:45 <Tron> and single user systems usually use the current directory 13:42:58 <blathijs> I think we should have 2 sets of defaults 13:43:09 <blathijs> for installinging and for running from source dir 13:43:29 <blathijs> probably triggered from specifying a PREFIX (or not) 13:44:54 *** Scia [n=Scia@AveloN.xs4all.nl] has quit ["kwiet"] 13:45:03 <DarkSSH> 14:37 < Tron> PREFIX (defaulting to /usr/local) 13:45:05 <DarkSSH> 14:38 < Tron> BIN_DIR (defaulting to $PREFIX/games) 13:45:23 <DarkSSH> isn't this a bit strange? defaultly it would mean openttd binary goes into /usr/local/games/openttd(.exe) 13:45:40 <Tron> that's totally correct 13:45:44 <DarkSSH> at least on suse I've never seen a games/ directory 13:46:01 <DarkSSH> hmm, scrap that 13:46:04 * DarkSSH hits hiself 13:46:25 <Tron> /usr/ contains the majority of user utilities and applications 13:46:26 <Tron> games/ useful and semi-frivolous programs 13:46:31 <Tron> *g* 13:46:40 <blathijs> Summarizing the default options: BIN_DIR=. DATA_DIR=. PERSONAL_DIR=. ICON_DIR is unused when PREFIX is unspecified. BIN_DIR=$PREFIX/games DATA_DIR=$PREFIX/share/openttd PERSONAL_DIR=$HOME/.openttd (where $HOME/ is prepended at runtime) ICON_DIR=$PREFIX/share/pixmaps when PREFIX is set to something. 13:46:42 <DarkSSH> but the binary would be in /usr/(local/)bin right? 13:46:44 <Tron> from man hier (hierachy) on my box 13:46:51 <Tron> that's for system supplied games though 13:47:00 <Tron> there's the variant in /usr/local, too 13:47:02 <blathijs> DarkSSH: no, /usr/local/games would contain the binary 13:47:03 <DarkSSH> at least that's how it is here 13:47:20 <BurtyB> FHS says /usr/local/games - "Local game binaries" 13:47:25 <DarkSSH> if I take matlab the binary is in /usr/local/bin and the data files are in /usr/local/matlab7/ 13:47:41 <Tron> no, /usr/local/games is the directory for game binaries (and NO data files) 13:47:51 <Tron> DaleStan: matlab is no game 13:47:52 <blathijs> DarkSSH: I think those data files should be in /usr/local/share/matlab7 13:48:08 <blathijs> DarkSSH: since they are shared, machine independent data (I presume) 13:48:17 <Tron> s/DaleStan/DarkSSH/ 13:48:20 *** angerman_ [n=angerman@e181106127.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #openttd 13:48:21 <DarkSSH> no they're in /usrlocal/matlab7 13:48:33 <blathijs> DarkSSH: emphasis on "Should be" 13:48:33 <Tron> that's the problem of matlab, not ours 13:49:42 <blathijs> DarkSSH: Also, don't forget to keep the $INSTALL prefix thing in 13:49:55 <blathijs> DarkSSH: I need it for making a package (and I presume other packagers too) 13:50:18 <DarkSSH> he, I am not going to change the makefile ;P 13:50:22 <Bjarni> http://pastebin.com/573181 <-- this should work as long as the C code still listens to those flags. If we use that diff, we can keep the bundle functionality and clean up Makefile.config at the same time 13:51:02 *** jnmbk [n=ugur@85.107.164.177] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 13:51:04 <DarkSSH> Bjarni: there will not be SECOND_DATA_DIR AND CUSTOM_LANG_PATH 13:51:56 <Bjarni> why not. I removed them from Makefile.config to make it easier to set up your stuff 13:52:23 <blathijs> Actually I think my package could use them too... 13:52:24 <DarkSSH> because it's nonsense. We would use PERSONAL_DIR for both these two 13:52:33 <Bjarni> and other stuff 13:52:46 <Bjarni> those two excludes stuff like savedir 13:54:03 <blathijs> DarkSSH: Currently, sysadmins installing the game need to install the TTD datafiles in /usr/share/openttd, which should be the domain of packages only. Technically, the OpenTTD supplied datafiles should go into /usr/share/openttd/ and the TTD datafiles in /usr/local/share/openttd (but that's probably too much effort to be correct...) 13:54:39 <DarkSSH> whaat? That's just stupid imho 13:54:39 <Bjarni> I spend the time from 0.2.1 to say 0.3.0 or something like that to get the bundle/different installers to work in a way so people could figure out how to use them. I'm not going to change that now that it actually works 13:56:14 <Tron> CUSTOM_LANG_PATH? 13:56:21 *** jnmbk [n=ugur@85.107.164.177] has joined #openttd 13:56:23 <Tron> that's supposed to be good for what? 13:56:40 <Bjarni> Tron: http://pastebin.com/573166 <-- read this 13:57:07 <Tron> and? 13:57:11 <Tron> i read it 13:57:15 <Tron> i don't see the point 13:58:03 <Tron> DATA_DIR is $FOOBAR/OpenTTD.app/Contents/ in your case (probably starting with /opt/...) 13:58:38 <Bjarni> ... 13:59:18 <Bjarni> first of all $FOOBAR is working dir (you can place ti where you want) and 2nd, it needs two data dirs, one for user stuff and one inside the bundle 14:00:05 <Tron> are we talking about installation or not? 14:00:48 <Bjarni> we are talking about how OpenTTD uses paths to find the needed files 14:01:15 <Tron> *sigh* i give up 14:01:22 <Bjarni> make install is not used on mac and never will be 14:01:39 *** irCuBiC [n=ircubic@ti231210a080-1914.bb.online.no] has joined #openttd 14:02:24 <Tron> ok, so why are you participating in the discussion about installation paths at all if it's moot on OSX? 14:02:38 *** GoneWacko [n=gonewack@c18041.upc-c.chello.nl] has quit ["So long and thanks for all the fish"] 14:02:38 <DarkSSH> lol 14:03:01 <Bjarni> because the OSX app needs to use two of the paths that was originally made for make install 14:03:02 <Tron> if it's only working on a "start at the current directory"-basis, you have no need for any fixed installation paths 14:03:22 <Bjarni> and if they are removed, the mac port will fail to find those files 14:03:27 <Vornicus> I was under the impression that the configured paths actually get hardcoded into the binary as it's built. 14:03:45 <Vornicus> this would be, you know. "bad". 14:03:48 <DarkSSH> Bjarni: if PREFIX is not set, then everything is run from the current directory 14:04:05 <Tron> PREFIX will not end up in the binary 14:04:25 <Tron> only the specific paths, like DATA_DIR 14:04:42 <Tron> PREFIX is just there to construct default names for the other paths 14:04:45 <Bjarni> let me make one thing clear: everything runs from the working dir with the exception of those two paths. That's why those two paths needs special path setup 14:05:05 <Tron> i really don't understand 14:05:14 <Tron> if there is no fixed path for installations 14:05:20 <Tron> how do you know them then? 14:05:35 * Vornicus tries to describe the problem he sees. 14:06:04 <Bjarni> it uses those two paths compared to the working dir (relative paths) 14:06:22 <Tron> ok 14:06:29 <Vornicus> If you change the directory of something in configuration, the program has to know the new place for it, and that usually gets compiled into the binary, right? 14:06:36 <Tron> and these paths are defined by you, because you made the bundle this way 14:06:49 <Tron> so now tell me: what is the problem if you know these paths anyway? 14:06:55 <Bjarni> they are defined to fit the bundle structure, yes 14:07:17 <Tron> #define OSX 14:07:22 <Tron> uh... 14:07:25 <Tron> #ifded OSX 14:07:32 <Tron> // OSX directory chant 14:07:35 <Tron> #else 14:07:39 <Tron> // rest of the world 14:07:40 <Tron> #endif 14:07:55 <Vornicus> ooh, a chant. 14:08:02 <Bjarni> it affects the bundle app only, not the dedicated server 14:08:14 <Bjarni> also it needs to know $(OSXAPP) from the makefile 14:09:07 <Bjarni> I really don't see the big problem in keeping the current code for those two paths 14:09:22 <Bjarni> but I can see huge problems if we remove them 14:10:21 <Bjarni> this is weird. We got a piece of code that works really great and still some people want to remove it... 14:11:22 *** jnmbk [n=ugur@85.107.164.177] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 14:12:16 <Bjarni> Maybe you should have tried to use what we got before building the bundle this way to fully understand how great an improvement it is compared to not having it 14:12:45 *** GoneWacko [n=gonewack@c18041.upc-c.chello.nl] has joined #openttd 14:13:06 <GoneWacko> oops. 14:13:07 *** GoneWacko [n=gonewack@c18041.upc-c.chello.nl] has quit [Client Quit] 14:13:35 <DarkSSH> http://darkvater.openttd.org/makefile_install2.txt <-- makes sense? 14:14:30 <Tron> Bjarni: ok, now i'm fully confused, what's special about the dedicated only version? it's no bundle? 14:15:15 <Tron> DarkSSH: PREFIX should be /usr/local 14:15:25 <Tron> BIN_DIR should not contain /bin at the end 14:16:05 <Tron> and not /openttd either 14:16:25 <Tron> DATA_DIR: $PREFIX/games is for executables only 14:16:57 <Tron> it should be $PREFIX/share/openttd 14:17:39 <Tron> if PREFIX defaults to something, it cannot be not specified 14:18:28 <DarkSSH> that is true :) 14:19:28 <Tron> OSX example: BIN_DIR should probably be OpenTTD.app/MacOS 14:19:55 <Bjarni> <Tron> Bjarni: ok, now i'm fully confused, what's special about the dedicated only version? it's no bundle? <-- the dedicated server is not a bundle since it's a CLI only app. It can't start from finder 14:19:56 <DarkSSH> I just did what Bjarni had in the pastebin 14:20:26 <Tron> but i guess BIN_DIR is moot for the OSX bundle 14:20:39 <Tron> it's just an installation path which gets not stored anywhere 14:20:43 <Bjarni> <Tron> but i guess BIN_DIR is moot for the OSX bundle <-- not needed as the bundle can handle that on it's own 14:20:49 <Tron> especially not in the ottd executable itself 14:21:07 <Tron> finally one point Bjarni and me agree on (: 14:21:10 *** irCuBiC [n=ircubic@ti231210a080-1914.bb.online.no] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 14:21:18 <Bjarni> OSX is only affected by hardcoded paths in the binary itself 14:21:34 <Tron> - BIN_DIR: the directory where the openttd binary will reside 14:21:34 <Tron> Defaults to $PREFIX/games/openttd/ with perhaps a softlink to /usr/ 14:21:39 <Tron> scrap the openttd/ 14:21:43 <Bjarni> the bundle structure is created in os/macosx/Makefile 14:21:49 <Tron> $PREFIX/games directly contains executable files 14:22:05 <DarkSSH> no wonder people can't write normal software for *nix. Behold how difficult it is to agree on an install ;) 14:22:25 <Tron> %ls -l /usr/games/ 14:22:26 <Tron> total 184 14:22:26 <Tron> -r-xr-xr-x 1 root wheel 6600 12 Feb 08:11 bcd* 14:22:26 <Tron> -r-xr-xr-x 1 root wheel 6392 12 Feb 08:11 caesar* 14:22:26 <Tron> -r-xr-xr-x 1 root wheel 33620 12 Feb 08:11 factor* 14:22:49 <Tron> (just an example, i have no games installed in /usr/local, these are just the system supplied "games") 14:23:26 <Tron> ("factor" is actually a program to find the prime factors of numbers) 14:24:30 <Bjarni> DarkSSH: hehe 14:24:37 *** Zr40 [n=Zirconiu@2001:960:786:0:20e:a6ff:fe46:99df] has joined #openttd 14:25:21 <Bjarni> - DATA_DIR=OpenTTD.app/Contents <-- would that make it read in ./data/ and then OpenTTD.app/Contents/data/ if the first read fails to find the file? 14:25:47 <DarkSSH> yes 14:26:02 *** AmiX2 [n=Michal@90.80-203-44.nextgentel.com] has joined #openttd 14:26:05 <DarkSSH> ifyour PERSONAL_DIR is . 14:26:20 <Bjarni> ok, then it could work 14:26:42 <Bjarni> though I would need to test it to be sure 14:27:12 *** Singaporekid [n=notme@cm93.epsilon121.maxonline.com.sg] has left #openttd [":o"] 14:27:34 <Bjarni> also the makefile should set it to $(OSXAPP)/Contents to be consistent (and easier to change the name in the future if needed) 14:28:02 <DarkSSH> DATA_DIR=$(OSXAPP)/Contents 14:28:14 <Bjarni> yeah 14:29:50 *** XeryusTC is now known as Xeryus|shower 14:30:17 <Bjarni> if I understand it right, I think we finally got a design we can agree on :) 14:31:07 <Bjarni> now we just need it to be coded and then we can start all over because of misunderstandings and people, who aren't here right now and stuff we didn't think about :p 14:31:10 <DarkSSH> now that I look at it it just throws out second_data_dir and custom_lang and unifies them in home_dir which is general 14:34:41 *** ^Cartman^ [n=Eric_Car@ti100710a081-3876.bb.online.no] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 14:35:05 <Bjarni> so what did we actually gain from this? 14:35:31 <Bjarni> we joined two flags into one and nothing else? 14:37:18 *** ^Cartman^ [n=Eric_Car@ti100710a081-3876.bb.online.no] has joined #openttd 14:37:49 <DarkSSH> Bjarni: and got rid of USE_HOMEDIR and I see a lot of source-cleanup in the fileio part of unix handling 14:38:30 *** Diablo-D3 [i=diablo@pool-72-73-69-102.ptldme.east.verizon.net] has quit ["do coders dream of sheep()?"] 14:38:31 <Bjarni> well as long as you don't break anything for me and you know what you are doing... 14:41:28 <Tron> what about DEST_DIR? what's that? 14:42:01 <DarkSSH> no idea 14:42:17 <Tron> blathijs: you should know the answer 14:43:46 *** glx [i=glx@Mix-Aubervilliers-105-1-213.w193-249.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #openttd 14:47:03 *** Xeryus|shower is now known as XeryusTC 15:00:00 *** axadhus [n=mav@ganymed.inf.tu-dresden.de] has joined #openttd 15:22:18 <DarkSSH> Celestar: ping 15:25:58 *** glx [i=glx@Mix-Aubervilliers-105-1-213.w193-249.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit ["Chatzilla 0.9.70 [Firefox 1.5.0.1/2006011112]"] 15:31:17 *** Tron_ [n=tron@p54A3E1B2.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 15:31:32 *** Tron [n=tron@p54A3DDAD.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Nick collision from services.] 15:31:35 *** Tron_ is now known as Tron 15:50:20 *** jnmbk [n=ugur@85.104.149.183] has joined #openttd 15:54:06 *** angerman_ [n=angerman@e181106127.adsl.alicedsl.de] has left #openttd [] 16:01:24 *** Born_Acorn [n=bornacor@ACCB74A7.ipt.aol.com] has joined #openttd 16:19:59 *** Eddi|zuHause [i=johekr@p54B753CB.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 16:22:48 *** eQualize1 [i=lauri@dyn14-161.dsl.spy.dnainternet.fi] has joined #openttd 16:37:11 *** eQualizer [i=lauri@dyn12-172.dsl.spy.dnainternet.fi] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 16:37:12 *** eQualize1 is now known as eQualizer 16:39:30 *** Eddi|zuHause2 [n=johekr@p54B771A0.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 16:51:20 *** DaleStan [n=Dale@12-202-240-195.client.insightBB.com] has quit [Connection timed out] 16:56:57 *** Jenkz [n=nobody@80-192-44-21.stb.ubr05.dund.blueyonder.co.uk] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 16:58:48 *** XeryusTC is now known as Xeryus|food 17:15:19 *** Xeryus|food is now known as XeryusTC 17:19:41 *** e1ko_ [n=31k0@a02-0432c.kn.vutbr.cz] has joined #openttd 17:21:32 *** XeryusTC [n=irc@cc480157-a.sneek1.fr.home.nl] has quit ["So Long, and Thanks for All the Fish"] 17:21:37 <DarkSSH> can I ask you one thing though? Until I sort this out, please don't commit any more accessors to 'fuel the fire' 17:21:44 <DarkSSH> oops 17:22:34 <blathijs> Tron: It's used for package installs 17:25:34 *** XeryusTC [n=XeryusTC@cc480157-a.sneek1.fr.home.nl] has joined #openttd 17:26:09 <blathijs> Tron: You don't want to install into your real root when packaging 17:26:30 <blathijs> Tron: but you don't want to stuff something into your PREFIX either, since that will get compiled into the binary 17:32:53 *** e1ko [n=31k0@a02-0432c.kn.vutbr.cz] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 17:38:04 <Tron> blathijs: doesn't this happen in a chroot? 17:38:59 *** Markavian` [n=Markavia@82.109.228.38] has joined #OpenTTD 17:39:39 *** DaleStan [n=Dale@12-202-240-195.client.insightBB.com] has joined #openttd 17:41:51 *** DarkSSH [n=plop@5354EC24.cable.casema.nl] has quit ["Lost terminal"] 17:43:44 *** eQualize1 [i=lauri@dyn12-172.dsl.spy.dnainternet.fi] has joined #openttd 17:48:19 *** stefan [i=stefan@home.stefan.id.au] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 17:48:30 *** stefan [i=stefan@home.stefan.id.au] has joined #openttd 17:54:26 *** Markavian [n=Markavia@82.109.228.38] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 17:55:54 *** eQualizer [i=lauri@dyn14-161.dsl.spy.dnainternet.fi] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 17:55:55 *** eQualize1 is now known as eQualizer 17:58:15 <Tron> - _map2[tile] = ((_map2[tile]&7) <= 1) ? 6 : 7; 17:58:15 <Tron> + _map3_hi[tile] |= ((((_map3_hi[tile] & 0x70) >> 4 ) <= 2) ? 7 : 6) << 4; 17:58:17 <Tron> hmhm... 17:58:39 <Tron> is it just me or is <= 1 ? 6 : 7 something different that <= 2 ? 7 : 6 ? 17:58:44 <Tron> s/that/than/ 17:59:35 <Tron> and oring... 18:00:31 *** Zr40 [n=Zirconiu@2001:960:786:0:20e:a6ff:fe46:99df] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 18:01:48 <blathijs> Tron: no 18:02:00 <blathijs> Tron: could be, but this is a poor man's chroot :-) 18:02:44 <blathijs> also this makes sure you can have your source directory outside of the chroot (or DESTDIR fake chroot) 18:03:12 <Tron> ok mr. Celestar, you have something to explain, when you're back... 18:03:47 <Tron> blathijs: interesting 18:04:56 *** glx [i=glx@Mix-Aubervilliers-105-4-113.w193-249.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #openttd 18:07:00 *** Jenkz [n=nobody@80-192-44-21.stb.ubr05.dund.blueyonder.co.uk] has joined #openttd 18:07:59 *** Osai [n=Osai@p54B3746B.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [] 18:11:32 * peter1138 smirks at CobraA1's post 18:12:06 *** stefan [i=stefan@home.stefan.id.au] has quit [Nick collision from services.] 18:12:22 *** stefan [i=stefan@home.stefan.id.au] has joined #openttd 18:12:27 <Turulo> does anyone know wich value should i change on openttd.cfg to change date limit on dedicated servers? 18:21:00 *** Mukke [n=Mukke@x1-6-00-02-1e-f6-09-41.k607.webspeed.dk] has joined #openttd 18:21:30 <Turulo> i was using restart_game_date = 1 18:21:39 <Turulo> instead of restart_game_date = year 18:21:44 <Turulo> lol, sorry 18:25:45 <blathijs> Tron: See the need for the DEST_DIR var? 18:28:47 *** sw4y [n=sw4y@snat2.arachne.czfree.net] has joined #openttd 18:32:59 *** Osai [n=Osai@p54B3746B.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 18:34:06 *** glx [i=glx@Mix-Aubervilliers-105-4-113.w193-249.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit ["Chatzilla 0.9.70 [Firefox 1.5.0.1/2006011112]"] 18:44:51 *** stefan [i=stefan@home.stefan.id.au] has quit [Connection timed out] 18:54:22 *** AKX [i=akx@a84-230-248-170.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has quit ["This is a quit message."] 18:54:44 *** Aankhen`` [n=pockled@59.144.179.96] has quit ["Sleep and all that [Time wasted online: 11hrs 46mins 26secs]"] 18:55:00 <Tron> Bjarni: "As for C++ additions, we will have the problem with the nightly build server. It can't handle C++ code as it is now." <--- WTF? 18:55:12 <Tron> and what exactly is dmusic.cpp and bemidi.cpp then? 18:57:12 <blathijs> Tron: It can't handle it for all platforms 18:57:14 <blathijs> I think 18:57:18 <blathijs> ie it can for windows 18:57:36 <Tron> Windows and BeOS at least 18:57:43 <Tron> and BeOS is as exotic as it gets 18:58:03 <blathijs> hmm, true 18:58:05 <blathijs> dunno then 18:58:18 <blathijs> (Do we have BeOS nightlies, though?) 19:00:20 <Tron> *shrug* i never really cared for the nightly builds 19:01:00 <Tron> except when i provided some directx headers to truelight to set the stuff up 19:02:10 *** Brianetta [n=brian@82-39-48-88.cable.ubr03.benw.blueyonder.co.uk] has joined #openttd 19:02:14 <CIA-5> bjarni * r3676 /trunk/ (3 files in 2 dirs): 19:02:14 <CIA-5> -Change: [OSX] changed info about package to how to install the game 19:02:14 <CIA-5> the package is long gone and people don't read a doc about a missing package when they don't expect to find one 19:02:14 <CIA-5> the doc is called install even though it's not a real install and have nothing to do with make install. People just read it the first time they see it when it's called install ;) 19:03:17 <Tron> bj 19:03:18 <Tron> Bjarni: 19:03:19 <Tron> +The game adds some items by itself when it runs, like a save folder and a setting file 19:03:20 <Tron> \ No newline at end of file 19:03:22 <Tron> twice 19:03:55 <Bjarni> are the newlines important in a text doc? 19:03:57 <Tron> ok, just once, the other file got removed 19:04:24 <blathijs> missing newlines make it impossible to just add lines without changing the last line 19:04:41 *** Zr40_ [n=Zirconiu@2001:960:786:0:20e:a6ff:fe46:99df] has joined #openttd 19:05:11 <Bjarni> <Tron> and what exactly is dmusic.cpp and bemidi.cpp then? <-- there are a few exceptions like those. They trigger some OS specific stuff and somehow it works, but it's not full C++ support 19:05:23 <Tron> btw: for C files it's not a valid ANSI/ISO C file, if the newline is missing 19:05:28 <Bjarni> give it a random C++ file and it will likely fail 19:05:32 *** Zr40_ is now known as Zr40 19:05:34 *** jnmbk [n=ugur@85.104.149.183] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 19:06:03 <Tron> Bjarni: that looks like "there was no need to implement it so far, so it wasn't done" to me 19:06:25 <Bjarni> more like TL got huge issues with it 19:06:30 <Tron> not like some fundamental reason why it can't/won't/whatever be done 19:06:38 *** Brianetta [n=brian@82-39-48-88.cable.ubr03.benw.blueyonder.co.uk] has quit [Client Quit] 19:06:59 <Bjarni> TL gave a reason, but since I forgot it, I can't tell you what it was 19:07:21 <peter1138> damn 19:07:22 <Bjarni> but he mentioned something about trying again when he get time to do so 19:07:24 <peter1138> i need rv waypoints 19:08:00 *** stavrosg [n=stavrosg@athe730k-2073.otenet.gr] has quit ["alcohol RULZ"] 19:08:27 *** |Jeroen| [n=users@dD57729A7.access.telenet.be] has quit ["Leaving"] 19:08:29 *** |Jeroen| [n=jeroen@dD57729A7.access.telenet.be] has joined #openttd 19:09:02 <Bjarni> <Tron> Bjarni: that looks like "there was no need to implement it so far, so it wasn't done" to me <-- well officially the crosscompiler for OSX can't be made, but that didn't stop us 19:09:23 <Tron> context? 19:10:00 <Bjarni> oops, meant reply to <Tron> not like some fundamental reason why it can't/won't/whatever be done 19:10:13 * Bjarni hides 19:11:12 <Bjarni> anyway it might be possible to handle C++ code in the future, but we can't be sure until we actually got the crosscompiler to do it 19:11:53 <Bjarni> bbl dinner 19:12:09 *** Head [n=Head___@P8cf6.p.pppool.de] has joined #openttd 19:27:19 *** XeryusTC [n=XeryusTC@cc480157-a.sneek1.fr.home.nl] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 19:31:00 *** XeryusTC [n=XeryusTC@cc480157-a.sneek1.fr.home.nl] has joined #openttd 19:35:58 *** Coder`TuX [n=codertux@85.204.17.98] has joined #openttd 19:36:33 *** DarkSSH [n=plop@5354EC24.cable.casema.nl] has joined #openttd 19:36:36 <DarkSSH> something's fishy 19:36:39 <DarkSSH> tfarago@Arrakis:~> ssh ssh.liacs.nl 19:36:41 <DarkSSH> ssh_exchange_identification: Connection closed by remote host 19:37:11 <DarkSSH> Celestar: pingie 19:38:03 *** mode/#openttd [+o DarkSSH] by ChanServ 19:38:17 *** mode/#openttd [-o DarkSSH] by DarkSSH 19:38:25 <DarkSSH> now how do I set autoidentify with irssi? Very annoying 19:38:55 *** Mucht [n=Mucht@chello080109200215.3.sc-graz.chello.at] has joined #openttd 19:40:23 * Prof_Frink tries to remember how he does it 19:41:31 *** Coder`TuX [n=codertux@85.204.17.98] has quit ["Windows, the best game ever: Try to see how many blue screens you can get per hour and then try to beat that record!"] 19:41:40 <Prof_Frink> DarkSSH: see /help network 19:41:58 <DarkSSH> 20:41 No help for network 19:42:03 <Prof_Frink> -autosendcmd is the option you're after 19:42:30 <Tron> DarkSSH: works here 19:42:48 <Tron> (irssi 0.8.10) 19:43:00 <DarkSSH> hmm.. where is this autosendcmd? I think it's not a /set cmd? 19:43:27 <DarkSSH> or I have to start it with irssi -autosendcmd? 19:43:46 <DarkSSH> ah there 19:43:47 <DarkSSH> found it 19:43:53 <Prof_Frink> no, it's an option under /network 19:44:35 <DarkSSH> hmm 19:44:41 <DarkSSH> 20:44 -!- Irssi: Unknown command: network 19:45:26 <Prof_Frink> How very strange 19:45:44 <Tron> irssi version? 19:45:48 <Tron> /version 19:45:50 <DarkSSH> yes...perhaps I should compile it myself instead of relying on some crappy supplied version 19:45:52 <Prof_Frink> 0.8.9 19:45:57 <DarkSSH> 20:43 -!- Irssi: Client: irssi 0.8.9 (20031210 2316) 19:46:14 <DarkSSH> hmm 2003 19:46:25 <DarkSSH> but this is so basic, should've been in irssi for ages 19:46:50 <Prof_Frink> Maybe it was left out by whoever built it 19:46:59 <DarkSSH> let's get a newer version 19:47:01 <Tron> or it was renamed 19:47:08 <DarkSSH> brb 19:47:09 *** DarkSSH [n=plop@5354EC24.cable.casema.nl] has quit ["leaving"] 19:49:10 *** Forexs [i=Forexs@x1-6-00-0f-b5-14-63-5f.k136.webspeed.dk] has joined #openttd 19:50:15 *** DarkSSH [n=plop@5354EC24.cable.casema.nl] has joined #openttd 19:50:19 *** mode/#openttd [+o DarkSSH] by ChanServ 19:50:30 *** DarkSSH [n=plop@5354EC24.cable.casema.nl] has quit [Client Quit] 19:51:46 *** DarkSSH [n=plop@5354EC24.cable.casema.nl] has joined #openttd 19:51:47 *** mode/#openttd [+o DarkSSH] by ChanServ 19:51:59 <DarkSSH> ah that's better 19:52:12 <DarkSSH> 20:52 -!- Irssi: Client: irssi 0.8.10 (20051211 0941) 19:52:15 <DarkSSH> thx@all 20:01:19 *** Osai [n=Osai@p54B3746B.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [] 20:07:45 *** glx [n=glx@Mix-Aubervilliers-105-1-47.w193-249.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #openttd 20:09:29 *** SchAmane [n=schamane@p5498D691.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit ["Ciao"] 20:11:16 *** Osai [n=Osai@p54B3746B.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 20:11:22 <hylje> /network was /ircnet in 0.8.9 20:13:51 <Prof_Frink> aah 20:13:58 *** glx [n=glx@Mix-Aubervilliers-105-1-47.w193-249.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit ["Chatzilla 0.9.70 [Firefox 1.5.0.1/2006011112]"] 20:14:15 <Prof_Frink> silly people using old versions 20:14:25 *** Zr40 [n=Zirconiu@2001:960:786:0:20e:a6ff:fe46:99df] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 20:15:16 * Prof_Frink notes that the version here is irssi 0.8.9 (20031210 2316) 20:15:50 <hylje> you silly person! 20:16:13 <Prof_Frink> But I am not usong the version here 20:16:39 <Prof_Frink> I am using the version on frinktop upstairs 20:22:58 *** AciD [n=gni@unaffiliated/acid] has quit ["Connection not reset by peer."] 20:46:47 <peter1138> hmm, is there any particular reason why buoy numbers start at 9? heh 20:47:13 <hylje> first 8 are taken 20:47:18 *** Head [n=Head___@P8cf6.p.pppool.de] has quit ["Verlassend"] 20:47:44 *** alastair [n=agh@220-244-72-6.static.tpgi.com.au] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 20:48:53 <XeryusTC> peter1138: i have seen buoys with 7 and 8 20:49:04 *** Markavian` is now known as Markavian 20:49:15 <peter1138> yes 20:49:18 <peter1138> but they *start* at 9 20:50:59 <XeryusTC> true 20:51:08 *** alastair [n=agh@220-244-72-6.static.tpgi.com.au] has joined #openttd 20:59:32 <TL|Away> [20:00:20] <Tron> *shrug* i never really cared for the nightly builds <- and you shouldn't; I just once told people that C++ is not supported on all targets, and never will (some really are impossible). so if they start adding C++ code, they can expect the nightly platform to fail. Of course it never ever should hold back development. although it was a good one to hold back C++ in the PBS branch, 20:59:36 <TL|Away> which really sucks 20:59:44 <TL|Away> hmmz, that became long ;) 21:00:05 <hylje> too long 21:00:07 <hylje> didnt read 21:01:18 <Tron> hm, i'm not going to ask about the "impossible" part 21:01:43 *** DJ_Mirage [n=djmirage@biggetje.xs4all.nl] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 21:02:05 <TL|Away> Tron: hehe :) The answer is pretty simple: glibc fails on multiple targets, and then g++ fails too :p 21:02:28 <TL|Away> although with tricks and trucks g++ can be compiled, it fails over too many things 21:03:26 <Tron> good i didn't ask 21:03:42 <TL|Away> yup :) 21:04:17 <Tron> who uses glibc? 21:04:26 <TL|Away> tunnelbridge_cmd.c: In function `CmdBuildBridge': 21:04:27 <TL|Away> tunnelbridge_cmd.c:351: warning: comparison between signed and unsigned 21:04:27 <TL|Away> tunnelbridge_cmd.c:357: warning: comparison between signed and unsigned 21:04:35 <TL|Away> Just for your information 21:05:07 <Tron> 357 is bogus 21:05:10 <TL|Away> Tron: I dunno what exactly fails, never wanted to check why... partly it is the cross-gcc-compile script I use, which just refuses to go on if glibc isn't installed 21:05:20 <TL|Away> Tron: bogus or not, it is giving warnings on it :) 21:05:24 <Tron> the type of both operands to != are the same 21:05:31 <Tron> gcc 2.95? 21:05:44 <TL|Away> yup 21:05:48 <TL|Away> always tha bitch 21:05:54 <Tron> that's broken beyond repair 21:06:00 <Tron> GetRoadBits(ti.tile) != (direction == 0 ? ROAD_Y : ROAD_X)) { 21:06:01 <Tron> , 21:06:08 <Tron> GerRoadBits returns a RoadBits 21:06:13 *** Mukke [n=Mukke@x1-6-00-02-1e-f6-09-41.k607.webspeed.dk] has quit [] 21:06:19 <Tron> and ROAD_[XY] are from that very enum 21:06:19 <TL|Away> true true.. signed unsigned blabla is rarely valid 21:06:30 <TL|Away> maybe direction and 0? :p Hehehehe :p 21:06:43 <TL|Away> (okay, shoot me :)) 21:06:57 * Tron shoots TL|Away 21:07:01 <Tron> YAFIYGI 21:07:17 <TL|Away> You Are ... In Your ... ... 21:07:21 <TL|Away> I almost decrypted it 21:07:25 <TL|Away> I should work for NASA 21:07:37 <Tron> You Asked For It, You Got It 21:07:40 <TL|Away> You Asked For It, You Got It 21:07:41 <TL|Away> hehe 21:07:45 <TL|Away> just looked it up :) 21:08:16 <TL|Away> But anyway, I couldn't get g++ to work for target x86_64 on host i686 21:08:59 <TL|Away> glibc compiled, but then g++ failed... maybe I check it out some day... 21:11:10 <Tron> which version of gcc? 21:11:33 <TL|Away> 3.3 and 3.4 21:12:03 <TL|Away> I should upgrade to 4.0, maybe thatone gets the job done 21:12:24 <TL|Away> let me try to compile thatone on the nightly system 21:12:26 <TL|Away> who knows 21:12:38 <TL|Away> (on the other hand, it might break anything, but who cares about the x86_64 binaries anyway!) 21:12:45 <TL|Away> just good for 64bit warnings/errors 21:13:40 <TL|Away> takes some time to compile, hehehe 21:14:48 <Tron> hm 21:15:03 <Tron> i have gcc 4.1 20060217 sources here 21:15:33 <Tron> let's see if it can spit out a PPC cross compiler 21:16:04 <Qball> gcc 4 + x86_64 works 21:16:39 <TL|Away> Qball: you missed the talk :p 21:17:07 <Qball> like always 21:17:08 <Tron> powerpc-unknown-none 21:17:09 <Tron> hmhm 21:17:09 <TL|Away> Tron: PPC isn't that hard, GCC has a nice target system :) 21:17:21 <TL|Away> Tron: just forget making a macosx or morphos target 21:17:29 <TL|Away> GCC refused most of the patches for the target 21:17:49 <TL|Away> So you need the source for Apple and stuff :s Sucky world ;) 21:17:53 *** sw4y [n=sw4y@snat2.arachne.czfree.net] has quit ["Odletam do paralelniho vesmiru..."] 21:17:58 <Tron> *** Configuration powerpc-unknown-none not supported 21:18:01 <Tron> uh... 21:18:04 <TL|Away> lol 21:18:10 <Tron> what does not support it? 21:18:16 <Tron> ./configure ran fine 21:18:16 <TL|Away> powerpc-unknown-linux-gnu (works) 21:18:57 <TL|Away> yeah, it can spit out warnings and errors at weird places 21:19:02 <TL|Away> one target once gave the error at around 50% 21:19:06 <TL|Away> liberty I believe failed 21:19:09 <TL|Away> really nice 21:20:20 <Tron> powerpc-unkown-freebsd 21:20:26 <Tron> if this works, i'm impressed 21:20:44 <Tron> Please update *-*-freebsd* in gcc/config.gcc 21:20:47 <Tron> interesting 21:20:57 <Tron> update what and how in particular? 21:20:57 <TL|Away> lol 21:21:16 <tokai> TL|Away: morphos stuff actually should build with default ppc/elf target stuff 21:21:26 <TL|Away> tokai: yeah, but not optimized 21:21:34 <TL|Away> which makes the 4.0 binaries more crappy then the 2.95 21:21:36 <tokai> right 21:22:37 <TL|Away> tokai: and the header files you gave me won't work on it I guess :) 21:22:45 <TL|Away> which you need for all the morphos stuff 21:23:00 <TL|Away> morphos with his 2 systems ;) 21:23:20 <TL|Away> tokai: is morphos an active system, or is it dying? (no offense ment btw :) Just I never saw it running on a PC) 21:24:17 <Tron> fascinating 21:24:17 <TL|Away> blathijs: no, we don't have BeOS target, I wanted to, but nobody supplied me with the needed libs and header-files :) 21:24:30 <Tron> ppc-freebsd gives a strange error, ppc-linux seems to work 21:24:42 <TL|Away> September-13-2004 21:24:42 <TL|Away> Update: "new" website online. More to come. 21:24:42 <TL|Away> (from morphos.com) 21:24:46 <Bjarni> we also stop having BeOS binary releases since nobody compiled them 21:24:48 <TL|Away> I take that as a dead thing :) 21:24:57 <Tron> there's no real difference between them from a compiler's point of view, is there? 21:25:18 <TL|Away> Tron: between ppc-freebsd and ppc-linux? 21:25:24 <Tron> yes 21:25:41 <TL|Away> I assume there isn't, but I have no idea in detail 21:26:12 <Tron> ../.././gcc/gengtype-lex.l:31:27: gengtype-yacc.h: No such file or directory 21:26:15 <Tron> interesting 21:26:42 <TL|Away> gcc doesn't need any external header files, so that is really bad :) 21:26:53 <TL|Away> glibc starts needed external header-files (of the target itself) 21:27:10 <tokai> TL|Away: its big endian.. and pretty much limited to Pegasos PPC and Amiga PPC type computers atm., well.. and it's dead since years of course ;) 21:27:28 <TL|Away> tokai: yeah, that is what I thought, so it is nice to know tha tfor sure :) 21:27:58 <TL|Away> also, what is the difference between Amiga and the other? 21:28:17 <TL|Away> just the hardware I assume? 21:28:20 <tokai> a apple port would be possible, but apple switches to x86.. so it doesnt make much sense anymore:) 21:28:33 *** XeryusTC [n=XeryusTC@cc480157-a.sneek1.fr.home.nl] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 21:29:07 <Tron> maybe gcc is more happy if i feed it a bison 21:29:09 <tokai> TL|Away: yes. on amiga ppc was a big patch.. and max 604@240Mhz... pegasos is like a real pc, just with powerpc cpu.. and up to g4@1Ghz currently 21:29:26 <TL|Away> I see :) 21:30:05 <tokai> the speed blows u away:) 21:30:18 <tokai> have osx on a 400 mhz faster machine and it crawls. 21:30:32 <TL|Away> I should rebuild this nightly stuff from scratch, it is a bit out-dated... 21:30:34 <tokai> when some program needs more than 2 seconds to load i get impatient already:) 21:30:45 <TL|Away> hehe 21:30:48 <TL|Away> so they did a nice job :0 21:30:56 <TL|Away> tokai: does it has a 'dl' implementation? 21:31:09 <tokai> TL|Away: well, but we have no memory protection.. old amigaos heritage:) 21:31:11 <Qball> lol. 21:31:28 <tokai> TL|Away: yes and no. 21:31:35 *** XeryusTC [n=irc@cc480157-a.sneek1.fr.home.nl] has joined #openttd 21:31:37 <TL|Away> lol 21:31:55 <tokai> TL|Away: there is no public one. 21:32:22 <tokai> the kernel itself has memory protection, but the user space doesn'T else non of the old amiga stuff could run. 21:32:25 <TL|Away> tokai: but there already exists an implementation, tha is good news :) 21:32:44 <TL|Away> tokai: 'dl' is about dynamic loading, I don't care if it is memory protected or not ;) 21:33:05 <Tron> hm, with a bison gcc seems to be more happy 21:33:12 <TL|Away> Tron: lol :) 21:33:13 <tokai> TL|Away: but i don't know how good it is:) 21:33:31 <TL|Away> Tron: you really use: a bison. that makes me think of the animal, I see it in front of me :) That makes me laugh :) 21:33:36 <Tron> although it explicitly told me it doesn't necessarily need one 21:33:36 <tokai> Tron: weird.. u would think apache would be happy with bison :) 21:33:39 <Tron> *shrug* 21:33:41 <TL|Away> tokai: k :) Maybe we check it out one time :) 21:33:53 <Tron> TL|Away: that was intended (: 21:34:17 <TL|Away> Tron: hehe :) Okay, then we at least are in eachothers spectrum (wavelengths, whiieeee ) :p 21:34:58 <Tron> now let's wait for half an hour till gcc is compiled... 21:35:08 <TL|Away> hehe, gcc always is fast... 21:35:09 <TL|Away> 3 phases 21:35:10 <Tron> considering that tcc needs less than 10 seconds *sigh* 21:35:10 <TL|Away> whoho 21:35:18 <TL|Away> Tron: but tcc here fails to give gdb symbols 21:35:21 <Tron> 3? it's a cross compiler 21:35:26 <TL|Away> really annoying (and it also makes it useless) 21:35:55 <TL|Away> btw, compiling times of tcc are amazing! It is fast...... 21:36:15 <TL|Away> saidly their cross-compile support is non-existing :) 21:36:25 <Tron> it's relocation is seriously broken on FreeBSD 21:36:28 <TL|Away> you can compile it via mingw, or on linux... but not on linux for minw ;) 21:36:52 <TL|Away> so clearly I was not the only one with problems :) 21:36:57 <Tron> it produces binaries which make the linker think that main is at 2 times the address of main 21:37:10 <TL|Away> Igor2 tried to mail the people, but they weren't really helpful 21:37:17 <TL|Away> auch 21:37:29 <Tron> s/linker/loader/ 21:37:30 <TL|Away> (okay, they told him to fuck off) 21:37:44 <Tron> uh... 21:37:51 <TL|Away> ("it worked here the last time, and if it doesn't work for you, make a patch for it.") 21:37:53 <TL|Away> very helpful :) 21:38:30 <Tron> let's hope compiling gcc uses less than 300MB disk space 21:38:30 <TL|Away> oh well, it might be udnerstanding, if you don't have a big community ... 21:38:38 <TL|Away> lol, doubtful 21:38:56 <TL|Away> btw, what did suprise me is that gcc and tcc are the only C compilers I could find out there.... yeah, one other, which failed compiling at all... 21:39:04 <TL|Away> are there really so little? 21:39:09 <Tron> tcc is written by the same maniac who writes qemu 21:39:09 <TL|Away> (or does Gentoo just not support them ;)) 21:39:18 <TL|Away> ah, that explains ;) 21:39:20 <hylje> intel c compiler? 21:39:27 <Tron> c compilers? there are quite some 21:39:37 <Tron> gcc, tcc, djgpp, tendra, icc, lcc, msvc 21:39:39 <TL|Away> Gentoo Portage has only 2... 21:39:51 <TL|Away> MSVC, lol, Tron, we were talking about COMPILERS 21:39:55 <Tron> just of the top of my head 21:39:57 <TL|Away> not stupid pieces of software :p 21:40:00 <TL|Away> k, let me check some 21:40:12 <TL|Away> saw djgpp before, it has a very nice docmentation of their binaries! 21:40:16 <TL|Away> (PE COFF mostly, very nice) 21:40:41 <Tron> gmake[2]: *** Keine Regel vorhanden, um das Target »/usr/local/bin/ppc-linux-as« 21:41:03 <Tron> i guess that's the nice way of telling me "you need the binutils first, you dumbass" 21:41:14 <TL|Away> yup :p 21:41:35 <TL|Away> ah, gentoo has icc, which is masked... :) 21:42:12 <TL|Away> DJGPP is a complete 32-bit C/C++ development system for Intel 80386 (and higher) PCs running DOS 21:42:13 <TL|Away> lol 21:42:56 <peter1138> yeah 21:42:57 <Tron> yep, _the_ compiler if you want to target DOS 21:43:21 <TL|Away> hehe 21:43:23 <TL|Away> yeah 21:43:24 <TL|Away> maybe not 21:43:27 <peter1138> usually uses good ol' DOS4GW, heh 21:43:44 <hylje> i think compilers are generally software 21:43:48 <TL|Away> I hadn't heard that name in a long long long time 21:43:55 <hylje> havent seen or heard about hardware compilers :| 21:43:56 <peter1138> heh, people still use dos ttd... 21:44:09 <peter1138> hylje: what? 21:46:18 <TL|Away> anyway, I got to go 21:46:19 <TL|Away> night all 21:46:37 <Matt-W> wow DOS4GW 21:46:37 <Tron> hylje: well, there's stuff like that 21:46:42 <Matt-W> such memories... 21:47:06 <Tron> hylje: you put in a specification and it generates a plan for an FPGA or the whole show 21:48:51 *** Osai [n=Osai@p54B3746B.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [] 21:52:26 *** |Jeroen| [n=jeroen@dD57729A7.access.telenet.be] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 21:56:01 *** Osai [n=Osai@p54B3746B.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 22:07:25 *** tokai|noir [n=tokai@p54B80EE0.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #openttd 22:08:02 *** tokai|3 [n=tokai@p54B80EE0.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #openttd 22:11:06 *** thgergo [n=th_gergo@dsl51B789A5.pool.t-online.hu] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 22:14:26 *** KritiK [i=Maxim@ppp83-237-234-228.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #openttd 22:20:18 *** ^Cartman^ [n=Eric_Car@ti100710a081-3876.bb.online.no] has quit ["Que?"] 22:20:35 *** tokai [n=tokai@p54B8483E.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Connection timed out] 22:21:08 *** tokai|ni [n=tokai@p54B8483E.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 22:28:15 *** tokai|noir [n=tokai@p54B80EE0.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 22:28:21 *** RoySmeding [i=1000@c514451cb.cable.wanadoo.nl] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 22:29:19 *** tokai [n=tokai@p54B80EE0.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #openttd 22:38:21 *** stavrosg [n=stavrosg@athe730k-2073.otenet.gr] has joined #OpenTTD 22:39:36 *** Spoco [n=Spoco@dsl-062-197-163-31.lohjanpuhelin.fi] has quit [] 22:50:09 *** Jenkz [n=nobody@80-192-44-21.stb.ubr05.dund.blueyonder.co.uk] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 22:52:13 <XeryusTC> interesting... 22:52:52 *** e1ko__ [n=31k0@a02-0432c.kn.vutbr.cz] has joined #openttd 22:52:52 *** e1ko_ [n=31k0@a02-0432c.kn.vutbr.cz] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 22:52:59 *** e1ko__ is now known as e1ko 22:53:12 <Tron> checking for C compiler default output file name... configure: error: C compiler cannot create executables 22:53:15 <Tron> fascinating... 22:54:00 <SpComb> what's the point in a compiler that can't create executables? 22:55:18 <tokai> the linker creates the executable, not the compiler ;) 22:55:20 * tokai runs 22:56:51 <coppercore> rofl 23:00:11 *** XeryusTC is now known as Xeryus|bed 23:00:41 <SpComb> true 23:02:44 <Born_Acorn> DarkSSH, this "action 13" you have planned, do you think it could support newgrf airport graphics changing, for different styles? 23:07:24 <DarkSSH> changing? like over-time? 23:07:37 <DarkSSH> or just other types of graphics for airports? 23:10:29 *** Mucht is now known as Mucht|zZz 23:11:27 <Born_Acorn> Other types of graphics for airports. 23:11:49 <Born_Acorn> Like "Dulton Airport" has a different graphics set than "Mulberry Airport". 23:12:07 <DarkSSH> ah..like newstations? 23:12:27 <Born_Acorn> Pretty much, yes 23:12:56 <DarkSSH> as soon as peter makes support for it I think it might be possible although I have no idea as of yet how 23:24:20 <Prof_Frink> Sionide: Yes, I know about openTTD :p 23:24:54 <Sionide> oh 23:24:58 <Sionide> course 23:28:02 *** Angst [n=Angst@p54946C36.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [""cal 9 1752""] 23:37:05 *** PAStheLoD [n=pas@catv-56656dbc.catv.broadband.hu] has quit ["( www.nnscript.de :: NoNameScript 4.01 :: www.XLhost.de )"] 23:48:46 *** tokai [n=tokai@p54B80EE0.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit ["Don't give me logic, give me emotions!"] 23:55:30 <DarkSSH> ls 23:56:09 *** Diablo-D3 [i=diablo@pool-72-73-69-102.ptldme.east.verizon.net] has joined #openttd