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It was you wasn't it!?"] 01:21:55 *** Andrew67 [n=andrew67@206.248.80.224] has joined #openttd 01:25:02 *** CobraA2 [n=Jeremiah@cpe-024-088-000-194.sc.res.rr.com] has joined #openttd 01:29:38 *** CobraA2 [n=Jeremiah@cpe-024-088-000-194.sc.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 01:30:21 *** bp0 [i=pburt0@watertownDHCP-2.216-254-231.iw.net] has joined #openttd 01:32:09 *** bp0 [i=pburt0@watertownDHCP-2.216-254-231.iw.net] has left #openttd [] 01:35:03 *** fusey [n=fusion@220.142.171.66.subscriber.vzavenue.net] has quit ["Peace and Protection 4.22"] 01:40:16 *** CobraA2 [n=Jeremiah@cpe-024-088-000-194.sc.res.rr.com] has joined #openttd 01:40:41 *** CobraA2 [n=Jeremiah@cpe-024-088-000-194.sc.res.rr.com] has left #openttd [] 01:43:00 *** fusey [n=fusion@220.142.171.66.subscriber.vzavenue.net] has joined #openttd 01:48:20 *** glx [i=glx@bny93-6-82-245-156-124.fbx.proxad.net] has quit ["Bye!"] 02:04:33 *** Osai [n=Osai@p54B37C03.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 02:07:48 *** Andrew67 [n=andrew67@206.248.80.224] has quit [Client Quit] 02:16:37 *** Forexs [n=forexs@x1-6-00-0f-b5-14-63-5f.k136.webspeed.dk] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 03:00:27 <CIA-3> belugas * r4493 /trunk/ (8 files in 2 dirs): 03:00:27 <CIA-3> Newgrf : Action 04. Beginning of implementation. 03:00:27 <CIA-3> Some TODOs left, but the core is there. 03:00:27 <CIA-3> Thanks to Peter1138 for code, advice and patience 03:00:27 <CIA-3> And to Patchman for letting us define a lot of langids :) 04:38:56 *** Skiddles^ [n=notme@cm214.epsilon120.maxonline.com.sg] has joined #openttd 04:50:08 *** CobraA2 [n=Jeremiah@cpe-024-088-000-194.sc.res.rr.com] has joined #openttd 04:51:41 *** CobraA2 [n=Jeremiah@cpe-024-088-000-194.sc.res.rr.com] has left #openttd [] 05:18:36 *** shintah [i=bebble@bebble.olf.sgsnet.se] has joined #openttd 05:33:21 *** ThePizzaKing [n=thepizza@c211-28-155-182.eburwd2.vic.optusnet.com.au] has joined #openttd 05:37:09 *** SchAmane [n=schamane@p5498F028.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 05:40:33 *** stillunknown [n=unknown@82-168-177-167.dsl.ip.tiscali.nl] has joined #openttd 05:43:00 <Naksu> whee 05:43:12 <Naksu> more newgrf support 05:43:16 *** christooss [n=matic@clj20-83.dial-up.arnes.si] has quit ["Leaving."] 05:43:54 <Naksu> i bet the ttdpatch folk wont like this 05:45:40 <peter1138> they'll just invent new crazy features 05:47:20 *** christooss [n=matic@clj20-83.dial-up.arnes.si] has joined #openttd 05:49:34 <Naksu> it'd be nice to have a wiki page where you'd have every newgrf action thingy and some sort of ottd progress on it 05:52:13 <peter1138> we've got the source ;) 05:53:35 *** Xeryus|bed is now known as XeryusTC 05:59:26 <stillunknown> what is this source i hear people speak of so often? :-) 05:59:57 <stillunknown> imo: source is not always a manual, depends of how well documented something is 06:00:16 <stillunknown> (some functions are explained, some are not) 06:04:15 <Naksu> and sometimes you'll run into functions that do everything conceivable depending on the arguments 06:12:50 <stillunknown> is it sane to include headers in just one function? 06:24:30 *** tokai [n=tokai@p54B845F2.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #openttd 06:27:05 *** Jenkz [n=nobody@80-192-44-21.cable.ubr05.dund.blueyonder.co.uk] has joined #openttd 06:30:44 *** Head [n=Head___@p508A2C4A.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #openttd 06:51:36 *** AciD [n=gni@unaffiliated/acid] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 06:55:55 <CIA-3> peter1138 * r4494 /trunk/newgrf_text.c: - NewGRF: Clean up and reset custom texts 07:03:45 <CIA-3> peter1138 * r4495 /trunk/newgrf_text.c: - NewGRF: Implement conversion from old language IDs (bitmask) to new language IDs (value) 07:06:41 <CIA-3> peter1138 * r4496 /trunk/ (newgrf.c newgrf_engine.c newgrf_engine.h): 07:06:41 <CIA-3> - NewGRF: switch custom engine names from storing a char* to using the new StringID based text system. Vehicle name 07:06:41 <CIA-3> translations now work. 07:07:14 <peter1138> (dbsetxl in german :D) 07:07:49 <peter1138> (and french, spanish, and english) 07:11:35 *** Skiddles^ [n=notme@cm214.epsilon120.maxonline.com.sg] has left #openttd ["Leaving"] 07:12:25 *** StarLite [n=Star@StarLite.xs4all.nl] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 07:13:40 *** Aankhen`` [n=pockled@203.101.13.112] has joined #openttd 07:19:09 *** tokai [n=tokai@p54B845F2.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit ["It's like, wah."] 07:19:48 *** tokai [n=tokai@p54B845F2.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #openttd 07:19:56 *** WolfLaptop [n=wolf@213.196.14.87] has joined #openttd 07:41:52 <Darkvater> TL|Away around? 07:46:23 *** Morlark| [n=Sean@82-71-32-147.dsl.in-addr.zen.co.uk] has joined #openttd 07:47:14 <Darkvater> peter1138: nice going :) 07:47:25 <Darkvater> so what was the plan on doing it? 07:47:27 <Darkvater> no source here 07:52:43 *** Scia [n=sciapode@AveloN.xs4all.nl] has joined #openttd 07:55:10 *** SchAmane [n=schamane@p5498F028.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 07:56:45 *** SchAmane [n=schamane@p5498F2F7.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 08:00:44 <peter1138> hmm? 08:01:30 <Darkvater> what was the implementation? 08:04:44 *** Morlark|Yarr [n=Sean@82-71-32-147.dsl.in-addr.zen.co.uk] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 08:04:48 <peter1138> add the string to a list, get a unique for that string 08:05:39 <peter1138> then when drawing look up the string in the list, and find the appropriate language 08:05:41 <Darkvater> which list? 08:05:47 <peter1138> a new list 08:05:56 <peter1138> just for these strings 08:06:45 <Darkvater> ah ok, so not changing the .lng fils 08:09:26 <peter1138> nope 08:09:33 <peter1138> can't do that really 08:09:48 <peter1138> as some IDs are reused by different GRFs 08:09:57 <peter1138> so it needs to be mapped anyway 08:10:49 <Darkvater> you mean NEW ID's are reused by differen't GRF's? 08:11:53 <CIA-3> peter1138 * r4497 /trunk/ (newgrf_text.c newgrf_text.h): 08:11:53 <CIA-3> - NewGRF minor fixes: (Rubidium) 08:11:53 <CIA-3> - Remove a define in favour of using the lengthof() an array. 08:11:53 <CIA-3> - Fix typos in language names enum. 08:11:53 <CIA-3> - Add Brazilian ISO code. 08:15:21 <peter1138> Darkvater: e.g. 0xD000, yes. 08:15:38 <peter1138> we assign a unique id per stringid & grfid 08:15:41 <peter1138> so they're not reused 08:16:46 <peter1138> btw 08:17:00 <peter1138> are you doing more to the settings list code, or is it unintentionally broken? 08:17:21 <peter1138> settings.c:803 needs to change from item->value to item->name to work 08:19:30 <peter1138> Darkvater: but finally i replied to michael blunkc :) 08:19:36 <peter1138> *ck 08:20:30 <Darkvater> peter1138: hmm, that is very very ugly, and should be forbidden 08:20:34 <Darkvater> peter1138: it's not done yet 08:20:43 <Darkvater> or you mean it's broken now? 08:21:06 * Darkvater checks 08:21:11 <peter1138> i mean it's broken now 08:21:26 <peter1138> it is ugly, but that is the spec 08:22:00 <Darkvater> ah yes that part...working on it 08:22:00 *** Head [n=Head___@p508A2C4A.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 08:22:30 <peter1138> In addition, TTDPatch defines the following generic text IDs for this action: 08:22:40 <peter1138> D0xx: Miscellaneous graphics texts, unique to each .grf file. At the moment used for callbacks 19 and 1D. 08:25:39 <Darkvater> peter1138: you can change it to item->name if you want and commit, i won't be able to till tonight. 08:25:55 <peter1138> ok 08:27:33 *** RichK67 [n=RichK67@194.164.100.143] has quit [] 08:33:58 *** roboman [n=robotboy@c211-30-120-227.carlnfd2.nsw.optusnet.com.au] has joined #openttd 08:36:11 <ThePizzaKing> hey, it's roboman 08:36:15 * ThePizzaKing waves 08:36:51 <roboman> hello 08:37:56 <Scia> hello robotboy 08:38:12 <roboman> hello 08:45:02 *** joed [n=James@CPE-143-238-5-209.vic.bigpond.net.au] has joined #openttd 08:50:55 *** jong [n=jong@flipflip.student.utwente.nl] has joined #openttd 08:51:11 *** jong [n=jong@flipflip.student.utwente.nl] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 09:00:44 *** joed_ [n=James@CPE-60-228-98-103.vic.bigpond.net.au] has joined #openttd 09:16:22 *** joed [n=James@CPE-143-238-5-209.vic.bigpond.net.au] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 09:18:47 <CIA-3> peter1138 * r4498 /trunk/settings.c: - Use an item's name instead of value when parsing configuration lists. 09:21:41 *** Scia [n=sciapode@AveloN.xs4all.nl] has quit ["Leaving"] 09:31:54 <MiHaMiX> -last miham 09:32:11 <MiHaMiX> oops :) 09:32:13 *** egladil_ibook [n=egladil@frukt.csbnet.se] has joined #openttd 09:32:31 <Darkvater> hi MiHaMiX 09:32:33 <Darkvater> hi egladil 09:33:00 <egladil_ibook> hello 09:33:15 *** Sacro [n=Sacro@adsl-83-100-175-204.karoo.KCOM.COM] has joined #openttd 09:33:21 <egladil_ibook> though i've already been here a while :) 09:33:21 <Sacro> morning all 09:33:35 <ThePizzaKing> morning Sacro 09:33:55 <Darkvater> egladil_ibook: inactive though ;) 09:34:09 <egladil_ibook> true 09:34:50 *** egladil [n=egladil@duregladil.csbnet.se] has quit [Nick collision from services.] 09:35:18 *** egladil_ibook is now known as egladil 09:37:03 <Sacro> morning ThePizzaKing, you ok? 09:37:17 <Sacro> egladil: are ibooks any good? 09:37:24 <ThePizzaKing> yes, well I think so anyway 09:37:45 <egladil> i think so 09:38:01 <egladil> (that ibooks are good that is) :) 09:39:01 <Sacro> im thinking of getting an intel based mac, they look nice 09:42:06 *** dp_ [n=dp@p54B2D895.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 09:42:09 *** TPK [n=thepizza@c211-28-155-182.eburwd2.vic.optusnet.com.au] has joined #openttd 09:42:37 *** ThePizzaKing [n=thepizza@c211-28-155-182.eburwd2.vic.optusnet.com.au] has quit [Nick collision from services.] 09:42:49 *** TPK is now known as TPK|Venturering 09:43:07 <egladil> imac or macbook pro? 09:43:21 <Sacro> im not entirely sure, whats the difference? 09:43:42 <egladil> the second one is a laptop :) 09:44:00 <Sacro> ahh :) well im gonna want to use it for games, boot camp is the thing that grabbed my attention 09:44:20 <MiHaMiX> hi all :) 09:44:30 <hylje> mbp does good gaming under windows 09:44:34 <MiHaMiX> and bye all, bbl evening(?) 09:44:45 <Sacro> mbp? 09:45:08 <hylje> makcbook pro 09:45:27 <Sacro> ah right 09:45:54 <Sacro> didnt realise how expensive OSX is, is that per version? 09:46:35 <hylje> and apple releases new versions quite often (see: microsoft w/ vista) 09:47:06 <hylje> its rather expensive to upgrade, but usually it gets faster while having cool features 09:47:16 <Sacro> hmm true, just found a nice shiny universal binary logo on the apple site, maybe it could be used for OTTD 09:47:19 <hylje> os x, that is 09:47:59 <Sacro> yeah, i suppose thats true 09:50:33 <Sacro> right, bbl all 09:50:34 *** Sacro [n=Sacro@adsl-83-100-175-204.karoo.KCOM.COM] has quit [" HydraIRC -> http://www.hydrairc.com <-"] 09:51:29 <Patrick`> gerra intel mac mini 09:53:49 *** joed_ [n=James@CPE-60-228-98-103.vic.bigpond.net.au] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 09:58:39 *** dp-- [n=dp@p54B2D43C.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 09:58:40 *** dp_ is now known as dp-- 10:02:24 *** bp0 [i=pburt0@watertownDHCP-2.216-254-231.iw.net] has joined #openttd 10:06:18 *** stillunknown [n=unknown@82-168-177-167.dsl.ip.tiscali.nl] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 10:36:43 *** bp0 [i=pburt0@watertownDHCP-2.216-254-231.iw.net] has left #openttd [] 10:36:59 *** WolfLaptop [n=wolf@213.196.14.87] has quit ["( www.nnscript.de :: NoNameScript 3.81 :: www.XLhost.de )"] 10:38:46 *** BJH [n=chatzill@e176125235.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #openttd 10:41:29 *** roboman is now known as robodinner 10:44:07 *** mike[F] [n=mikef@nat-stujcr.magd.ox.ac.uk] has joined #openttd 10:59:57 *** kujeger_work [n=kujeger@pc-99-88.p52.hio.no] has quit ["Konversation terminated!"] 11:00:44 *** kujeger_work [n=kujeger@pc-99-88.p52.hio.no] has joined #openttd 11:06:46 *** Patrick` [n=pitt2@i-195-137-14-213.freedom2surf.net] has quit ["Lost terminal"] 11:10:58 * KUDr needs help! -> YAPF for trains spends 50% of time in GetSlopeZ() 11:22:03 *** stillunknown [n=unknown@82-168-179-194.dsl.ip.tiscali.nl] has joined #openttd 11:22:38 *** robodinner is now known as roboman 11:25:42 *** tokai|noir [n=tokai@p54B84C2A.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #openttd 11:27:05 <blathijs> KUDr: That either means the rest of YAPF is pretty darn fast, or something is going wrong ;-) 11:27:58 <KUDr> blathijs: hmm, dunno. I am confused. And dunno if i can use TileHeight() instead 11:28:28 <KUDr> with TileHeight() the YAPF is 2x faster then with GetSlopeZ() 11:28:29 <peter1138> possible 11:29:00 <peter1138> getslopez() gets the height at the position within the tile 11:29:15 <KUDr> yes, i used center position 11:29:28 <KUDr> for current and previous tile 11:29:42 <peter1138> ah 11:29:48 <peter1138> hmm 11:29:52 *** joed [n=James@CPE-143-238-28-222.vic.bigpond.net.au] has joined #openttd 11:30:04 <blathijs> KUDr: how do NPF/NTP do it? 11:30:05 <KUDr> it seems as bad idea 11:30:05 <peter1138> but does TileHeight take account of foundations... 11:30:22 *** tokai|3 [n=tokai@p54B84C2A.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #openttd 11:30:23 <peter1138> (no) 11:30:24 <peter1138> hmm 11:30:30 <peter1138> damn those implicit foundations 11:30:51 <Darkvater> amen 11:31:11 <KUDr> blathijs: NTP: if ((track & 7) <= 1 && (_is_upwards_slope[GetTileSlope(tile, NULL)] & (1 << track)) ) 11:31:28 <KUDr> it's bit cryptic for me 11:31:34 <blathijs> it says 11:32:14 *** RoySmeding [n=Roy@c514451cb.cable.wanadoo.nl] has joined #openttd 11:32:21 <blathijs> if (we are on a diagnal track) and (the slope of this tile combined with our trackdir is upwards) 11:32:38 *** Eddi|zuHause2 [i=johekr@p54B7600B.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 11:32:50 <KUDr> hmm 11:33:08 <blathijs> anyway 11:33:12 <blathijs> I'm outta time 11:33:14 <blathijs> cya! 11:33:19 <stillunknown> how is yapf doing? 11:33:20 <KUDr> but it looks like GetTileSlope() is also not very fast 11:33:44 <KUDr> stillunknown: tunning performance bottlenecks 11:33:51 <Darkvater> -n 11:34:10 <KUDr> blathijs: cya 11:36:51 *** CobraA2 [n=Jeremiah@cpe-024-088-000-194.sc.res.rr.com] has joined #openttd 11:39:44 *** tokai|ni [n=tokai@p54B845F2.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 11:39:47 *** CobraA2 [n=Jeremiah@cpe-024-088-000-194.sc.res.rr.com] has left #openttd [] 11:40:38 *** tokai [n=tokai@p54B845F2.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 11:42:09 <stillunknown> are #include's ok in just a function instead of file, or is this undesirable? 11:43:02 <KUDr> heh, why do you need that (some macros?) 11:43:31 <peter1138> very undesirable 11:44:28 <stillunknown> i'll remember that 11:48:55 <stillunknown> strange, am i not allowed to declare arrays in header files? (i moved the include and things broke) 11:49:59 <stillunknown> uint32 array[5]; for example 11:52:05 *** Eddi|zuHause [i=johekr@p54B75B97.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 11:52:47 <KUDr> then linker can complain about multiple instances of 'array' 11:53:50 <KUDr> use 'extern uint32 array[5];' in header and 'uint32 array[5]' in c file 11:53:59 <Darkvater> shit 11:54:02 <Darkvater> boss-alert 11:54:36 <SpComb> hmm 11:54:59 <SpComb> we need to standardise some boss key 11:55:14 <SpComb> then you could have a workplace-safe software label 11:55:54 <SpComb> for instance the N game has such, hitting tab puts it in boss mode (blank grey screen), and hitting Q closes it immediatly in that mode 11:55:59 <SpComb> So Tab + Q and it's gone 12:02:33 <peter1138> if (everyone(wrote in) == code) { 12:02:50 <peter1138> then[it] = "wouldn't look" + much_different; 12:02:51 <peter1138> } 12:07:12 <TL|Away> Darkvater: now I am here :p 12:09:15 * XeryusTC greets TL|Away o/ 12:12:20 *** black_Nightmare [n=Husky_dr@modemcable254.254-201-24.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #openttd 12:13:17 <black_Nightmare> just curious about it but in the standard (is that its name?) map .. what engines do you like the most? [with or without breakdown if you want] 12:14:07 <black_Nightmare> for me...if breakdown was off I like the dmu, SH125, U37, Floss, TIM (but wouldn't pick some of these all the times with breakdown on due to reliability issue) 12:15:50 * stillunknown hasn't played default in a long time 12:16:01 <stillunknown> (default units) 12:24:10 *** Born_Acorn [n=bornacor@ACCA4282.ipt.aol.com] has joined #openttd 12:26:19 <peter1138> Born_Acorn! 12:26:55 *** Tobin [n=Tobin@c211-28-197-129.eburwd7.vic.optusnet.com.au] has joined #openttd 12:26:59 <peter1138> i tend to play with UKRS 12:27:12 <peter1138> though i should give NARS & dbsetxl another bash 12:27:45 *** TPK|Venturering is now known as ThePizzaKing 12:27:46 <black_Nightmare> heh well..when breakdown is off (or their reliability is fair enough) I oftenly like to use the SH125 as quickly as I can..... 12:27:55 <Darkvater> NARS? 12:28:03 <peter1138> north american renewal set 12:28:10 <black_Nightmare> replaced by tim's when they finally come out (since the SH125 isn't fastest anymore by then) 12:28:24 <black_Nightmare> I never used the SH40 that much except when breakdown is on normal difficulity ^_^ 12:28:32 <Darkvater> ah USSET 12:33:17 <peter1138> no, not the usset :) 12:33:31 <peter1138> it's similar, but it's all company coloured 12:33:37 <Darkvater> ah 12:33:46 <roboman> yeah 12:39:25 <Born_Acorn> peter1138! 12:41:10 <Born_Acorn> newstations! 12:42:32 <Born_Acorn> Action 4? Don't vehicles already change their names? 12:42:58 <Born_Acorn> Or is this for station names, bridge names etc 12:43:47 *** Qrrbrbirlbel [n=Qrr@p54A7F9CA.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 12:50:17 <stillunknown> i'm working on a variable running cost system, let's say you have a very good freight train with a running cost of 20000-25000 a year, what would be acceptable running costs if it (on it's own) carried a total weight of 3000 tonnes 12:50:44 <peter1138> Born_Acorn: yes, and vehicles... 12:50:56 <peter1138> vehicle names now don't have to be english, heh 12:51:16 *** glx [i=glx@bny93-6-82-245-156-124.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #openttd 12:51:58 <Born_Acorn> So bridge texts will finally change? No "Wooden" for the brick bridge? :p 12:53:25 <peter1138> no ;p 12:53:58 *** Cheery [i=Henri@a81-197-61-21.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has joined #openttd 12:55:04 <peter1138> unfortunately our stringids are quite different to ttdp's 12:55:12 <peter1138> so there'll need to be some sort of mapping in place 12:55:50 <Darkvater> I thought belugas did that 12:56:24 <peter1138> no, this is different 12:56:37 <peter1138> where we've added strings over time, our actual string ids don't match 12:57:35 * stillunknown doesn't see the need of conforming with ttdpatch 12:57:48 <Darkvater> yes but I thought he alrady added the string-mapping tables 12:57:59 <peter1138> not that i know of 13:00:25 <peter1138> it would be a big list... 13:00:55 *** joed [n=James@CPE-143-238-28-222.vic.bigpond.net.au] has left #openttd ["Client exiting"] 13:01:05 <peter1138> it could be done though 13:01:47 <Darkvater> hmm not THAT big 13:01:55 <Darkvater> the wiki has the list; only a 100 orso strings 13:02:01 <peter1138> ... 13:02:11 <Darkvater> of cousre if they start with STR_BRIDGES+421 13:02:14 <Darkvater> then we're fucked 13:02:15 *** black_Nightmare [n=Husky_dr@modemcable254.254-201-24.mc.videotron.ca] has left #openttd ["bye"] 13:02:17 <peter1138> http://wiki.ttdpatch.net/tiki-index.php?page=TextIDs 13:02:24 <peter1138> that's a big list 13:03:23 *** ThePizzaKing [n=thepizza@c211-28-155-182.eburwd2.vic.optusnet.com.au] has quit ["And he disappears, like a fox, in the night."] 13:03:34 <Darkvater> peter1138: I was just thinking of the string-types. eg company-strings and offsets thereof 13:03:51 <Darkvater> although you can't be sure of correctness 13:04:17 <peter1138> for instance, in 5000 Tunnel and bridge strings 13:04:24 <peter1138> we've remove 5002 and 5004 because they're empty 13:04:29 <peter1138> so ours list doens't match 13:05:33 <peter1138> heh, we also need to map the ttd control codes to our own 13:06:43 *** ^Cartman^ [n=Eric_Car@ti100710a081-1660.bb.online.no] has joined #openttd 13:16:56 *** Scia [n=sciapode@AveloN.xs4all.nl] has joined #openttd 13:17:57 <Naksu> somehow it seems easier if you just exported some sort of a scripting api and made a newgrf module 13:18:13 <Naksu> but then again i have the programming ability and experience of a sack of potatoes 13:23:29 <peter1138> easier in what way? 13:24:59 <Naksu> in the way that to me it seems you're already hooking random stuff and implementing random translation layers inside ottd code :) 13:25:22 <Naksu> of course, i haven't read any of your patches nor could i decipher them :) 13:31:59 <stillunknown> i doubt it is random 13:41:30 <peter1138> uh huh 13:41:43 <peter1138> mapping string ids from one game to another is not random, but... annoying 13:44:18 <stillunknown> maybe create a reencoder for grf files, with the right mapping? 13:45:37 <glx> that will not solve the problem :) 13:46:43 <stillunknown> but it would prevent the need for a runtime "converter" 13:54:01 *** christooss [n=matic@clj20-83.dial-up.arnes.si] has quit ["Leaving."] 13:54:01 *** ZsoL_ [i=zsol@login09.caesar.elte.hu] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 13:54:21 <Darkvater> hmm I think someone is right and a runtime converter is if not impossible then very hard 13:54:37 <Darkvater> because you will need to keep your translation table up-to-date with ever string-change 13:55:03 *** ZsoL [i=zsol@login09.caesar.elte.hu] has joined #openttd 13:56:32 <peter1138> yes 13:56:46 <peter1138> i think i shall support a few common ones though 13:56:51 <peter1138> renaming bridges, for example 13:56:51 *** ZsoL [i=zsol@login09.caesar.elte.hu] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 13:56:56 <peter1138> but not a list of everything 14:00:08 *** ZsoL [i=zsol@login09.caesar.elte.hu] has joined #openttd 14:00:20 <peter1138> nobody needs to change STR_02F8_EVERY_3_MONTHS, heh 14:00:48 *** Tobin [n=Tobin@c211-28-197-129.eburwd7.vic.optusnet.com.au] has quit [] 14:01:09 <Darkvater> peter1138: hmm i was thinking (again) about the common ones, but that would need new newgrf support 14:01:33 <Darkvater> how much easier would it have been to have had an action4 applying to a bridge-ID instead of changing a global stringID 14:01:48 *** Belugas_Gone is now known as Belugas 14:01:59 <Darkvater> I mean that is totally unneeded for ttdp because well, they don't need it, but we do 14:03:22 <peter1138> well 14:04:04 <peter1138> yes 14:04:09 <peter1138> like with bridges 14:04:11 <peter1138> errrrrr 14:04:16 <peter1138> like with stations and vehicles 14:06:39 <Darkvater> and all others 14:07:00 <Darkvater> There is no point in changin 'Pause' or any other general texts, no? 14:07:05 <peter1138> not really 14:07:15 <peter1138> thing is, bridges already have a name parameter, hehe 14:07:32 <peter1138> called "material" 14:07:44 *** Jango [n=Jango@mettab.demon.co.uk] has joined #openttd 14:09:01 * peter1138 ponders 14:10:31 *** |Jeroen| [n=users@dD57729A7.access.telenet.be] has joined #openttd 14:10:43 <Jango> how good is this physics patch? i've never tried it 14:15:56 *** Nubian [n=nubian@mrkvovy.kokotko.sk] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 14:16:59 <stillunknown> there is a small bug in it which i mentioned in the thread(i may have indirectly caused when i was updating it compile with trunk, because he may have used my patch as a place to begin again) 14:17:23 *** Nubian [n=nubian@mrkvovy.kokotko.sk] has joined #openttd 14:17:26 <stillunknown> apart from that it's nice (imo) 14:17:34 <roboman> gnight 14:17:47 *** scia2 [n=sciapode@AveloN.xs4all.nl] has joined #openttd 14:18:04 *** roboman [n=robotboy@c211-30-120-227.carlnfd2.nsw.optusnet.com.au] has quit ["bedtime"] 14:18:24 <Jango> is it in the IN? 14:20:18 <stillunknown> i don't know 14:21:24 <stillunknown> probably not, since it has smoother realistic acceleration (looking at list) 14:21:52 <peter1138> "realistic" 14:22:03 <peter1138> it's just a minor mod to the existing one 14:22:15 <Jango> whereas the physics patch is much better? 14:22:22 <peter1138> well, it's different 14:22:36 <peter1138> stillunknown's fixed the resolution issue it had 14:23:50 <Jango> cool 14:23:53 <Jango> well 14:24:24 <Jango> hopefully work will continue on it, so that it is appropriate for inclusion 14:25:04 <peter1138> tractive effort! \o/ 14:25:27 <Jango> just don't put the brakes on it ;) 14:25:59 <Jango> not sure i agree with the option to remove max-speed 14:26:06 <peter1138> well, i don't 14:26:14 <peter1138> i wouldn't include that 14:27:08 <Jango> actually, IMO, we need to reduce patch options rather than add them... there comes a point where the game is so configurable that it takes days to configure it 14:27:28 <glx> it's not a new patch option 14:27:40 <Jango> if you install the patch,it adds 5 options 14:27:58 <glx> just for acceleration? 14:28:06 <Jango> http://home.tiscali.nl/mwdifa10/openttd/patch_physics_ss1.png 14:28:36 <peter1138> 5hmm 14:28:50 <peter1138> well, i did make a version of it 14:28:55 <peter1138> but i didn't add any patch options 14:29:12 <peter1138> i didn't include the RV part though 14:29:15 <Jango> btw, you know the max numbers of vehicles, they shouldn't be necessary if we are growing the pool dynamically? 14:29:38 <glx> I don't see utility af disabling speed limit 14:29:41 <peter1138> they're there for a game limit, not implementation limit 14:29:49 * stillunknown is making a patch which compensates for the ability to go faster than max speed 14:30:11 <Jango> stillunknown: which does what 14:30:29 <stillunknown> variable running costs, and trust me it will make running an engine beyond recommended max speed expensive :-) 14:30:30 <Jango> peter1138: i suppose that's particualrly useful in MP? 14:30:35 <glx> how a vehicle can go faster than it's max speed? 14:30:37 <peter1138> probably 14:30:54 <stillunknown> a vehicle which carries nothing will go faster than a mamoth train 14:30:59 <peter1138> glx: down hill when the brakes fail? :) 14:31:16 <Jango> when you got a eurostar pulling a jinty 14:31:22 <peter1138> personally i would remove all the patch options 14:31:36 <peter1138> and have a single realistic accel option that applies to rvs & trains 14:31:43 <Jango> yes 14:31:45 <Jango> i would agree 14:31:50 <glx> same for me :) 14:31:51 <Jango> although i still hate breakdowns :) 14:32:01 <Jango> probably cos they always break down on junctions 14:32:15 * stillunknown has been thinking of converting the patch to a no option system 14:32:31 <Jango> stillunknown: is the physics patch yours? 14:32:35 <stillunknown> no 14:33:04 <Jango> peter1138: a lot of the options should eventually be abstracted to "easy / medium / hard" tbh 14:33:12 *** Scia [n=sciapode@AveloN.xs4all.nl] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 14:33:12 <Jango> Celestar said that a LONG time ago 14:33:52 <peter1138> yes 14:33:53 <Darkvater> I am fine with simplifying the GUI patch options and doing sane defaults for all other invisible ones that the user can change in the console or config file if he/she wants 14:33:58 <peter1138> well, i use gnome.... 14:34:16 <Jango> Darkvater: yes, maybe that's a good compromise 14:34:29 <peter1138> yeah 14:34:42 <peter1138> and no "advanced..." button in the gui 14:34:56 <Darkvater> definitely not 14:34:58 <Darkvater> too much work ;) 14:35:04 <Jango> :) 14:35:08 <Darkvater> if you are so advanced, go edit a text file 14:35:45 <peter1138> ever seen xine's gui options? 14:35:49 <Jango> yes 14:35:54 <Jango> and they are dreadful 14:36:03 <Jango> wmp puts it to shame 14:36:20 *** scia2 is now known as scia 14:36:41 <Darkvater> no 14:37:16 <Jango> i think the writers were a bit too used to configuring sendmail or something 14:38:54 <Darkvater> ss anyone? :) 14:39:01 <Darkvater> I don't have xine, only mplayer at home 14:39:39 <Jango> gmplayer's options aren't greatly better 14:41:50 *** RoySmeding [n=Roy@c514451cb.cable.wanadoo.nl] has quit ["kthxbye"] 14:42:27 <Darkvater> I am not using gmplayer...hate the GUI 14:42:36 <Darkvater> and it's not even working properly 14:42:41 <Darkvater> so I just stick to cli 14:53:02 *** egladil [n=egladil@frukt.csbnet.se] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 14:54:16 *** egladil [n=egladil@frukt.csbnet.se] has joined #openttd 15:03:10 *** kujeger_work [n=kujeger@pc-99-88.p52.hio.no] has quit ["Konversation terminated!"] 15:08:29 *** Sacro [n=Sacro@83.100.253.27] has joined #openttd 15:08:32 <Sacro> afternoon all 15:11:13 *** Mukke [n=Mukke@x1-6-00-13-8f-3d-00-a9.k146.webspeed.dk] has joined #openttd 15:12:44 <peter1138> Darkvater: no screenshots, but it's got a "difficulty" option, 'novice', 'beginner', 'advanced' etc... to display a different number of options 15:12:55 <peter1138> (not exactly those words, but pretty much) 15:14:28 <Darkvater> ah, ok. so hides options in easy 15:15:06 <peter1138> yeah 15:15:23 <peter1138> but there are several levels (4 or 5 iirc) 15:15:56 <Darkvater> I see 15:17:22 <stillunknown> what is more desirable, some kind of console setting or no patch settings at all? 15:18:24 <Sacro> what about a cfg file? 15:19:01 <Sacro> maybe with an external cfg editor 15:19:06 * Sacro hides 15:20:37 <Darkvater> yaay, going home :D 15:21:04 <Darkvater> stillunknown: console setting is automatic if you add a member to patches part of the settings 15:21:10 <Darkvater> see you peepz around 15:21:24 <Jango> ciao 15:21:28 <peter1138> back later i hope? :) 15:21:39 <XeryusTC> i like the idea of being in control of what is going on in a game, along with it's settings :) 15:23:20 <stillunknown> @Darkvater: how do you set patches in console? 15:23:42 <Celestar> back 15:23:44 <Jango> wb 15:23:45 <Celestar> hi peops 15:24:11 <XeryusTC> hi Celestar 15:24:23 <Celestar> so whats new, hows progress? 15:25:01 * stillunknown wonders if there is a command to list patches 15:25:50 <Celestar> cat trunk/settings.c? :P 15:26:20 <Sacro> stillunknown: "list_cmds" ? 15:26:43 <stillunknown> that will list commands, not patches 15:27:12 <Celestar> hopefully :P 15:28:09 <Celestar> Tron's still gone? 15:28:31 <Celestar> WHY do we have num_orders? 15:29:03 <Celestar> it is pretty redundant information 15:29:26 <peter1138> remove it then 15:29:32 <peter1138> (Hello celestar :)) 15:30:45 <Celestar> well. basically it's ok to have it, but the information stored there can become wrong 15:31:27 <Celestar> http://bugs.openttd.org/task/129 <= see here 15:32:13 *** CobraA2 [n=Jeremiah@cpe-024-088-000-194.sc.res.rr.com] has joined #openttd 15:32:29 *** CobraA2 [n=Jeremiah@cpe-024-088-000-194.sc.res.rr.com] has left #openttd [] 15:34:10 *** ZsoL_ [i=zsol@login09.caesar.elte.hu] has joined #openttd 15:34:10 *** ZsoL [i=zsol@login09.caesar.elte.hu] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 15:34:29 <peter1138> scary 15:41:09 *** tokai|noir [n=tokai@p54B84C2A.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit ["Don't give me logic, give me emotions!"] 15:41:16 *** tokai [n=tokai@p54B84C2A.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #openttd 15:42:33 *** Qrrbrbirlbel [n=Qrr@p54A7F9CA.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 15:43:36 <Celestar> peter1138: yeah. 15:43:42 <Celestar> peter1138: but has been there for a long time 15:43:51 <Celestar> it surfaces very scarcely it seem 15:43:52 <Celestar> s 15:44:24 <Celestar> :o Seagate has a 750GB HDD 15:45:14 <Sacro> impressive 15:49:02 *** ZsoL [i=zsol@login09.caesar.elte.hu] has joined #openttd 15:49:02 *** ZsoL_ [i=zsol@login09.caesar.elte.hu] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 15:49:49 <Celestar> well. 15:49:58 <Celestar> how can the linked list become unlinked :S 15:50:24 <Celestar> ArmEagle: still working on your bug 15:51:13 <ArmEagle> ah 15:51:21 *** |VillageIdiot| [n=jurgen@d51A43FD0.access.telenet.be] has joined #openttd 15:51:21 <ArmEagle> yeah i wish i could give more info about that ;) 15:51:33 <Celestar> any older autosaves? 15:51:56 <ArmEagle> you mean autosaves between the one autosave where everything is ok and the broken savegame? 15:52:17 <ArmEagle> i could check. 15:52:23 <Celestar> er ? 15:52:28 <Celestar> oh :) 15:52:39 <Celestar> is there any way to reproduce what you did? :) 15:52:52 <ArmEagle> not that i know of yet ;) 15:53:26 <Celestar> it reeks of buffer overflows :S 15:53:52 <ArmEagle> ..still need to find a way to get less cpu% for midi-playback.. 15:54:11 <ArmEagle> looks like it is using all software 15:54:18 <ArmEagle> but midi and linux is tricky it seems 15:54:47 *** Jango [n=Jango@mettab.demon.co.uk] has quit ["Using KVIrc 3.0.1 'System Virtue'"] 15:55:14 <Celestar> yeah 15:55:20 <Celestar> timidity is kinda strange 15:55:45 <ArmEagle> couldn't find a config file for it yet. need to check other places than my ~/ 15:56:34 <glx> did you tried /etc/timidity/timidity.cfg ? 15:57:12 <Celestar> ArmEagle: did you have any newgrfs loaded? 15:58:42 <Celestar> peter1138: what is newgrf_engine.c:252 ? 15:59:03 <peter1138> switch (dsg->variable - 0x80) ? 15:59:26 <peter1138> or 259? 15:59:51 <Celestar> the switch 15:59:58 <Celestar> I mean what does it do? 16:00:30 <peter1138> it picks a parameter based on the variable 16:00:36 <peter1138> in ttdp the variable is just an array index 16:01:00 <Celestar> but how can a newgrf modify the current order? 16:01:05 <peter1138> it can't 16:01:14 <ArmEagle> glx: yeah was going to check /etc in a bit 16:01:19 <ArmEagle> Celestar: how would i check that? 16:01:25 <CIA-3> KUDr * r4499 /branch/yapf/ (5 files in 2 dirs): 16:01:25 <CIA-3> [YAPF] - performance optimization: SlopeCost() for trains 16:01:25 <CIA-3> - more detailed performance measurement options added 16:01:54 <Celestar> ArmEagle: ok then you didnt :) 16:02:25 <Celestar> KUDr: is NPF really that much slower than OPF? 16:02:33 <ArmEagle> Celestar: i think the problem might have to do with me moving around one of the 2 stations. Adding 'non-parallel' tracks etc. 16:02:42 <KUDr> yes 16:02:46 <Celestar> "moving around"? 16:02:48 <ArmEagle> i did that a lot to get a new station like i wanted it. 16:02:54 <Celestar> KUDr: strange. I never noticed. 16:03:04 <Celestar> peter1138: you do know that PackOrder is 32 bits? 16:03:09 <KUDr> now it is 10 : 2 : 1 (times for NPF : YAPF : NTP) 16:03:31 * peter1138 nods 16:03:35 <ArmEagle> yes first had a 2x4 station. removed one track of 4. then build a shadow station of that about 6 coords away. then 4x5. And finally removed the last 1x4 16:03:52 <Celestar> ArmEagle: er? can you try to reproduce. 16:04:00 <ArmEagle> yeah will do. 16:04:06 <Celestar> KUDr: so YAPF is 5 times faster than NPF? :o 16:04:09 *** ^Cartman^ [n=Eric_Car@ti100710a081-1660.bb.online.no] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 16:04:19 <KUDr> Celestar: seems to be 16:04:43 <KUDr> Celestar: but i am at beginning only - t will be fater 16:05:06 <Celestar> KUDr: that's a sound I like :) 16:05:19 <KUDr> now i want to add 'segment cost cache' 16:05:37 <Celestar> KUDr: it works for all vehicles now? 16:05:54 <KUDr> it spends 90% of time in segment cost calculations 16:06:23 <peter1138> Celestar: nothing checks that var anyway, heh 16:06:39 <KUDr> Celestar: yes, but for trains there are still mising some checks like owner/railtype/and so on 16:07:22 <Celestar> KUDr: ah I see. so mostly minor stuff. 16:07:37 * Celestar wonders how well one can merge the "bridge" and the "yapf" branch :P 16:08:25 <peter1138> :) 16:08:25 <Born_Acorn> peter1138! newstations! 16:08:35 <peter1138> never! 16:08:38 <Born_Acorn> yeser! 16:08:44 <KUDr> Celestar: yes - minor. With that bridge - i must learn how it works, then it should not be a problem 16:09:11 <Celestar> Born_Acorn: I think peter's doing some progress with it, inne? 16:10:16 <Celestar> ok I'm out a bit 16:10:31 *** Andrew67 [i=andrew67@206.248.80.224] has joined #openttd 16:19:20 <peter1138> KUDr: have you got tunnels working? 16:19:30 <KUDr> yes 16:20:51 <peter1138> then bridges won't be a problem 16:21:01 <KUDr> good 16:21:26 <KUDr> so from beginning i jump to the end? 16:21:38 <Celestar> yes 16:21:42 <KUDr> fine 16:21:53 <KUDr> and no signals on bridge? 16:21:57 <Celestar> ArmEagle: which station on you working on. 16:22:09 <Celestar> KUDr: not yet, a possibly not in near future (apart from bridge heads) 16:22:17 *** AciD [n=gni@tehpwnz.org] has joined #openttd 16:22:21 <KUDr> ok 16:22:29 <Celestar> bridge heads will have signals 16:22:30 <ArmEagle> Celestar: that was Lower Credston (sawmill) 16:22:34 <Celestar> ArmEagle: ok 16:22:41 * Celestar goes digging for the bug. 16:22:44 <ArmEagle> though i think it could also be caused by replacing the engines 16:22:53 <KUDr> then PBS can make the signals on bridge unneccessary 16:23:20 <KUDr> the same for tunnels 16:23:42 <ArmEagle> from double Ginzu 'A4' to double SH '8P' 16:23:56 <ArmEagle> but i just did it like i did it before. and no problem atm 16:24:04 <ArmEagle> trying to let some years pass.. 16:24:10 *** ^Cartman^ [n=Eric_Car@ti100710a081-1660.bb.online.no] has joined #openttd 16:24:46 <peter1138> KUDr: not if you've got two long one-way bridges next to each other 16:24:59 <peter1138> then you might want one-way signals spaced along them 16:25:25 <Born_Acorn> I heard signals on bridges! 16:25:27 <Born_Acorn> woo! 16:25:43 <peter1138> shush 16:25:50 <KUDr> peter1138: this i want to handle by pbs - long linear one-way segments 16:25:51 * Born_Acorn tells everyone and gets their hopes built up, and puts all responsibility for it on peter1138 16:25:51 <peter1138> go and finish your graphics 16:26:21 <Born_Acorn> Now if there are not any signals on bridges, an angry mob will castrate you! 16:26:42 <Born_Acorn> (no pressure) 16:27:18 <Celestar> ArmEagle: I hope you have monthly autosaves? ;) 16:27:57 <ArmEagle> no sorry ;P 16:28:01 <ArmEagle> but will change that now.. who nows.. it might happen again 16:29:23 <Eddi|zuHause2> KUDr: how do you plan to handle breakdowns then? 16:29:33 <Celestar> Eddi|zuHause2: breaking distance 16:29:49 <Celestar> distance between 2 trains == 2.5x breaking distance 16:30:04 <Celestar> BAH 16:30:18 <Celestar> what is this ReplaceVehicle function? 16:30:25 <Eddi|zuHause2> what is the breaking distance between 2 ICE3? 16:30:28 <KUDr> Eddi|zuHause2: the same like traffic jam - train is there and doesn't move 16:31:08 <KUDr> Eddi|zuHause2: distance will depend on the speed of both trains 16:31:09 <Celestar> Eddi|zuHause2: realistically? 4km. 16:31:15 <Celestar> er 4 minutes. 16:31:20 <Eddi|zuHause2> KUDr: what i meant is: if one train breaks down, how do you tell the other train to stop? 16:31:32 <Celestar> Eddi|zuHause2: so you can compute that for yourself at about 80m/s 16:31:42 <Celestar> 19km. 16:32:02 <Eddi|zuHause2> see... that is far beyond any visual control 16:32:11 <KUDr> Eddi|zuHause2: the same like red signal 16:32:31 <Celestar> Eddi|zuHause2: an ICE3 from 350km/h needs about 5km to a stop in emergency-brake mode. 16:32:43 <KUDr> there will be automatic virtual signals 16:32:51 <Celestar> and about 10km to a stop in lets say a less destructive braking action. 16:33:01 <Celestar> Eddi|zuHause2: ICE3 don't have or use signals ;) 16:33:02 <peter1138> 17:30 < Celestar> what is this ReplaceVehicle function? 16:33:08 <peter1138> presumably it replaces vehicles... 16:33:09 <Eddi|zuHause2> then all passengers are in the front vehicle ;) 16:33:12 <Celestar> peter1138: it does this weirdly :) 16:33:40 <peter1138> it buys a new vehicle... 16:33:55 <peter1138> so that could be fucking up your orders 16:33:56 <KUDr> Eddi|zuHause2: who cares about passengers that paid already 16:33:58 <Celestar> well, normally we FIRST sell the vehicle, and THEN buy a new one. 16:34:19 <Celestar> Eddi|zuHause2: you can't watch signals at 80m/s :) 16:34:25 <peter1138> ah 16:34:29 <Celestar> actually. you don't need a drver at 80+m/s 16:34:33 <peter1138> i think orders are precisely the reason it buys then sells 16:34:38 <peter1138> if you sell first, you lose the orders 16:34:46 <ArmEagle> Celestar: check at that speed you simply have controllers ;P 16:34:55 <Celestar> peter1138: no, we have "BackeuppedOrders" 16:35:02 <peter1138> hmm 16:35:15 <Celestar> but that loses the cargo .. hmmz 16:35:39 <Celestar> .oO(it's not that one would replace a wagon full of passengers, but wth) 16:36:01 <Eddi|zuHause2> we need a "replace vehicle" button in the depot... 16:36:06 <Eddi|zuHause2> not just autoreplace 16:36:19 <Celestar> Eddi|zuHause2: make one :) 16:36:22 <ArmEagle> hmm got another bug, maybe related.. 16:36:33 <Celestar> ArmEagle: go ahead? 16:36:35 <ArmEagle> if got train 6 swith shared orders to 7 and 8. 16:36:43 <Eddi|zuHause2> the functions are all there in autoreplace, right? 16:36:54 <ArmEagle> i put 6 in depot, sell locomotivs 16:36:54 <Eddi|zuHause2> so all it needs is a proper gui 16:37:02 <Celestar> Eddi|zuHause2: and a command. 16:37:10 <Celestar> ArmEagle: ok. 16:37:15 <ArmEagle> buy 2 new ones. put those in front of the wagons, 16:37:18 <ArmEagle> then ahve a new train 6. 16:37:27 <ArmEagle> then 6 has the old orders. but usnhared 16:37:34 <ArmEagle> and 7, 8 have one empty order. 16:37:40 <Celestar> ArmEagle: :o 16:37:46 <ArmEagle> i can delete that empty order, but can't delete the shared orders 16:37:49 <Celestar> standby trying to reproduce. 16:37:53 <Celestar> ArmEagle: I think you have it :) 16:38:49 <ArmEagle> though i'm not sure whether that other problem was caused exactly the same way. but i guess this should satisfy enough for now ;P 16:39:00 <ArmEagle> hmm perhaps.. 16:39:26 <ArmEagle> testing one more thing.. 16:39:36 <ArmEagle> that is adding both statiosn to 7 & 8 again.. 16:39:48 <Celestar> ArmEagle: 7 and 8 do not have an empty order for me in that case. 16:40:01 <Celestar> ArmEagle: give me the savegame you are working on an talk me through 16:40:17 <ArmEagle> let me try to reproduce it again after i try this one thing 16:40:33 <Celestar> ArmEagle: wait 16:40:36 <Celestar> I *think* I have it 16:40:47 * Celestar makes a debug build 16:41:06 <ArmEagle> ah check. now 7&8 stillhave a null order 16:41:21 <Celestar> ArmEagle: you *may* have found a way to reproduce one of the longer residual bugs. 16:41:48 * ArmEagle is tempted to cheer too early ;P 16:42:24 <Celestar> ok 16:42:26 <Celestar> yes. 16:42:28 <Celestar> that's it 16:42:35 * Celestar tries to reproduce what happens 16:42:40 <ArmEagle> ..later i replaced engines. by buying new ones first. add those to the original train. then delete the old ones 16:42:49 <ArmEagle> that didn't cause problems 16:43:34 <Celestar> I know what causes the problem 16:43:37 <Celestar> : 16:43:38 <Celestar> ) 16:43:39 <ArmEagle> good 16:44:24 <ArmEagle> hmm.. though now the game doesn't crash when i add a new order.. 16:45:45 <ArmEagle> (to train 7/8's shared orders list, when they don't have a 'next order' selected.) 16:46:25 <ArmEagle> ..that originally did crash the game. if i skipped orders so one was selected again, i could add a new order again. 16:47:02 <ArmEagle> (selected here is not that the order is 'white' but that one number order has that arrow pointing to it..) 16:47:10 <ArmEagle> *numbered 16:47:49 <Celestar> peter1138: ping 16:48:12 <ArmEagle> anyway, you go fix the bug you found. that will prevent it anywayi guess. 16:49:03 <Celestar> yes it will 16:49:05 <Celestar> it's the same bug 16:49:22 <peter1138> pong 16:49:29 <ArmEagle> ..well i meant that it doesn't crash now.. thats still weird 16:50:17 <Celestar> peter1138: help needed. 16:50:50 <Celestar> with problem-in-question 16:51:05 * Celestar tries to reproduce on a new savegame 16:51:13 <ArmEagle> ;) 16:52:50 <Celestar> WTF? 16:52:52 <Celestar> I can't 16:52:54 <ArmEagle> hmm doesn't go wrong on this brand new game.. retrying ;) 16:53:38 <Celestar> so .. 16:54:19 *** glx [i=glx@bny93-6-82-245-156-124.fbx.proxad.net] has quit ["Bye!"] 16:54:43 <ArmEagle> hmm funny. still doesn't go wrong ;) 16:55:34 <Celestar> so something might be wrong in the "noprob" game already :o 16:55:44 <ArmEagle> yup 16:57:43 <ArmEagle> check. goes wrong in a 'good' savegame. 16:57:49 <ArmEagle> funny ;) 16:57:52 <Celestar> hm :S 16:58:05 <ArmEagle> oh wait.. hmm.. 16:58:21 <ArmEagle> ok.. well. 16:58:29 <ArmEagle> if i delete both engines of train 6 here. 16:58:41 <ArmEagle> then 7 & 8 lose their orders (empty #1) 16:58:57 <ArmEagle> but if i add a new engine creating train 6 again, then they get the order back.. 16:59:21 <ArmEagle> lets see whether that stil lgives a null order.. 16:59:31 <ArmEagle> ..nope all ok. 17:01:14 <Vornicus> hm 17:01:25 <Vornicus> is the mini_in patch on the forum the most recent one? 17:02:20 <Celestar> ok got it 17:02:29 <Celestar> it goes wrong when selling the first vehicle 17:02:54 <CIA-3> peter1138 * r4500 /trunk/newgrf_engine.c: - NewGRF: When running a callback with no vehicle, use the purchase list 'cargo' type first, and then fallback to the default if needed. 17:04:06 <Celestar> oh even better 17:04:09 *** |VillageIdiot| [n=jurgen@d51A43FD0.access.telenet.be] has quit ["Leaving"] 17:04:12 <Celestar> I can trigger an assertion :o 17:04:23 <ArmEagle> hmm got a game now where i sold engines from train 6, rebought 2. traisn 7&8 have shared orders. and train 6 has normal orders. but if i delete an order from 6, then tis deleted from 7&8 too.. 17:06:09 <Celestar> peter1138: RFC: train_cmd.c:1313ff. copy of prev_shared && next_shared missing. 17:06:13 *** DJ_Mirage [n=djmirage@biggetje.xs4all.nl] has joined #openttd 17:06:54 <peter1138> hmm 17:06:59 <peter1138> looks bad, yeah 17:07:20 <peter1138> DrawStringMultiLine() would be far more useful if it returned the number of lines drawn... 17:07:42 <Celestar> peter1138: that doesn't solve the assertion tho :O 17:07:46 <ArmEagle> ..though this still all goes ok, when i try to reproduce in a brand new game. (though i keep all engines simply in the depot). 17:07:47 <peter1138> hmm 17:08:05 <ArmEagle> .. s/engines/trains/ 17:08:06 <Celestar> peter1138: I kow why. 17:08:30 <Celestar> peter1138: in that very same case, the prev_shared and next_shared VEHICLES need to have updated next_shared and prev_shared pointers :o 17:08:45 <peter1138> yup 17:09:47 <ArmEagle> just an idea.. but wouldn't it help if you create an order queue (and can manage them). And then assign trains to the orders? 17:10:35 <Celestar> ArmEagle: we have an order queue. just no GUI to it :P 17:11:17 <Celestar> WEE 17:11:19 <Celestar> it seems to work 17:12:15 <Celestar> committing fix. 17:12:32 <peter1138> oh, i got 4500 :D 17:13:34 <ArmEagle> still.. weird that i've seen it go bad in different gradations.. ;) 17:13:58 <Vornicus> dammit! 17:14:15 <Vornicus> the mini_IN doesn't build on my computer! 17:14:44 *** jnmbk [n=ugur@81.213.71.218] has joined #openttd 17:15:10 <CIA-3> celestar * r4501 /trunk/train_cmd.c: 17:15:10 <CIA-3> -Fix: (FS#129) When, in a train that head multiple engines in front, the _first_ 17:15:10 <CIA-3> of those engines is sold, all the orders are copied to the second engine (to 17:15:10 <CIA-3> ensure "seamless" operation). However, during this operation, it was forgotten 17:15:10 <CIA-3> to update the prev_shared and next_shared pointers of the new head engine AND 17:15:11 <CIA-3> the next_shared and prev_shared of the share partners. 17:15:46 <Celestar> .. 17:15:47 <Celestar> ... 17:15:55 <Celestar> does that commit message make ANY sense at all? 17:16:16 <hylje> too, incorrect grammar 17:16:17 <Celestar> Darkvater: this time, you screwed it ^^ 17:16:28 *** jnmbk [n=ugur@81.213.71.218] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 17:16:34 <Celestar> bah, been on a conference the past days, can't think straight :P 17:17:05 <ArmEagle> i think it does.. to one of the programmers ;) 17:17:22 <Celestar> that "one" being me? 17:17:40 <Celestar> WEE one critical bug down 17:17:52 * ArmEagle cheers for Celestar 17:18:09 <Celestar> well, it was worth the effort :) 17:18:12 <ArmEagle> though.. why doesn't it totally mess up in a brand new game? 17:18:26 <Celestar> well it does. 17:18:35 <ArmEagle> not when i tried ;) 17:18:43 <Celestar> it just implies that you have two engines behind one another 17:19:48 <ArmEagle> ..i did make multi-headed trains there.. 17:19:50 <ArmEagle> made two ctrl-clones 17:20:11 <Celestar> which engine did you delete first? 17:20:14 <ArmEagle> gave orders to 2 stations. 17:20:22 <ArmEagle> 'binned' the 2 engines of the first train (last engine first) 17:20:33 <ArmEagle> and other 2 traisn kept their orders 17:20:36 <Celestar> yes 17:20:47 <Celestar> you will only trigger it, if you delete the FIRST engine first. 17:20:52 *** jnmbk [n=jnmbk@81.213.71.218] has joined #openttd 17:20:58 <Celestar> s/,// 17:20:59 *** _Red [n=Red@81-86-117-11.dsl.pipex.com] has joined #openttd 17:21:00 <ArmEagle> hmm i'm pretty sure i've always deleted the second engine first 17:21:03 *** Angst [n=Angst@p54944870.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 17:21:10 <Celestar> ArmEagle: I'm pretty sure you didn't 17:21:13 <ArmEagle> ;P 17:21:19 <Celestar> or at least the replace vehicle system didn't 17:21:25 <ArmEagle> ok.. how do i get the svn? 17:21:52 <Celestar> svn co svn://svn.openttd.org/trunk $YOUR_DESTINATION_DIRECTORY 17:22:30 <ArmEagle> btw.. after i've compiled.. is there any way to remove alll sources, and jsut keep the 'binary' stuff? 17:22:39 <Celestar> rm *.[ch] 17:22:43 <Celestar> but why do it? 17:22:49 <ArmEagle> yeah dunno ;) 17:23:34 <Celestar> it's not that they eats lots of disk space. 17:23:37 <ArmEagle> anyway, should go make dinner. will try to reproduce the bug again ;) 17:23:41 <Celestar> this isn't the linux kernel 17:23:45 <Celestar> ArmEagle: k :) 17:23:46 <ArmEagle> hehe 17:24:06 <ArmEagle> bah.. already finished compiling.. ;) 17:24:44 *** Red [n=Red@81-86-117-11.dsl.pipex.com] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 17:26:01 <Celestar> me wonders when the 2.9 kernel will be released. 17:28:12 <ArmEagle> hmm k, well looks ok. gratz ;) 17:28:33 <Celestar> peter1138: http://bugs.openttd.org/task/65 <= does this make any sense to you? 17:29:46 <Celestar> KUDr: how much do you know about OPF? 17:30:07 <KUDr> not much - i know how it works 17:30:26 <KUDr> but not all flags are known to me 17:30:54 <Celestar> could you make up what "disable_tile_hash" might do? 17:31:11 <Celestar> and KUDr did you play around with the Makefile in yapf? 17:32:01 <Celestar> I get tons of warnings :( 17:32:10 <KUDr> Makefile - not much - it works with some warnings - i am not makefile guru so i can't repair it 17:32:25 <Celestar> ok 17:32:29 <Celestar> I'll see what I can do 17:32:47 <KUDr> i am stupid mouse-clicking windoze user 17:32:57 <KUDr> sorry for that 17:34:23 <Celestar> np^^ 17:34:45 *** Brianetta [n=brian@82-39-48-88.cable.ubr03.benw.blueyonder.co.uk] has joined #openttd 17:34:45 *** ledow [n=ledow@jaimejwalker.plus.com] has joined #openttd 17:35:20 <Celestar> peter1138: do you mess around in Makefiles sometimes? 17:35:35 *** ledow [n=ledow@jaimejwalker.plus.com] has left #openttd [] 17:36:00 <Vornicus> makefiles are evil 17:36:57 <Celestar> hm KUDr some RV problems I have here? 17:37:22 <KUDr> good - describe and provide savegame 17:37:30 <Celestar> yes will do 17:37:35 <Celestar> trying to isolate first 17:37:54 <KUDr> the biggest problem i have now is that i have no testers 17:38:44 *** sw4y [n=sw4y@snat2.arachne.czfree.net] has joined #openttd 17:40:34 *** MeusH [n=MeusH@host-ip18-138.crowley.pl] has joined #openttd 17:41:04 <MeusH> hello 17:41:55 <Celestar> KUDr: accept DCC, observe purple busses (the 4 ones in the center of the screen) doing weird things 17:42:40 <KUDr> no incomming DCC 17:42:47 <Celestar> bah 17:42:52 * Celestar kills DCC 17:42:54 <KUDr> try it again 17:43:41 <Celestar> now? 17:44:21 <KUDr> got 17:44:29 <Celestar> good 17:44:37 <Celestar> bah I need a fatter uppipe 17:47:36 *** mike[F] [n=mikef@nat-stujcr.magd.ox.ac.uk] has quit [] 17:50:08 *** x87 [n=x87@tor/session/external/x-5ef19d7cccbe6369] has joined #openttd 17:51:04 <CIA-3> celestar * r4502 /trunk/ (ai/default/default.c viewport.c): -Cleanup: Remove code unused since rev1. (Rubidium) 17:51:47 <Sacro> KUDr: set up a windows binary and a network server :) 17:52:34 <KUDr> Sacro: don't understand 17:53:02 <Celestar> KUDr: http://bugs.openttd.org/task/84 <= Request for comments 17:53:11 <Sacro> KUDr: ask on the forum, run a server, get people to test, worked for elrails 17:53:19 *** xahodo [n=xander@xahodo.demon.nl] has joined #openttd 17:53:42 <KUDr> Sacro: i need SP tests first 17:53:55 <KUDr> then the forum will help i hope 17:53:56 <Sacro> KUDr: what vehicles? 17:54:11 <KUDr> nearly all types 17:54:17 <KUDr> trains are incomplete 17:54:27 <KUDr> but will work soon 17:54:29 <Celestar> hm 17:54:32 <Sacro> well i mainly use trains, but then thats cos the RV pathfinder used to be pants 17:56:14 *** e1ko [n=31k0@161.157.broadband2.iol.cz] has joined #openttd 17:56:22 <Celestar> where's RichK? 17:56:26 <Celestar> haven't seen him in a while 17:56:36 <MeusH> he was here yesterday 17:56:50 <MeusH> or today. Whatever, he was here ~midnight 17:57:17 <Celestar> ok 17:58:10 *** meeps [n=Azio@host86-138-154-44.range86-138.btcentralplus.com] has joined #openttd 17:58:18 <Celestar> I really really like the terragenesis stuff 17:58:18 *** SmileyG [n=tim@pdpc/supporter/student/SmileyG] has joined #openttd 17:58:24 * meeps holds #openttd 17:58:35 <meeps> :D 17:58:38 <SmileyG> azio? 17:58:42 <meeps> :> 17:58:43 <SmileyG> :D 17:58:46 <meeps> i have been discovered 17:58:47 * meeps hides 17:58:54 <SmileyG> get your butt in #freenode and #spinhome :P 17:59:06 <meeps> oh 17:59:07 <meeps> no kiddding 17:59:12 <meeps> your on freenode usually? 17:59:18 <SmileyG> yes 17:59:21 <SmileyG> ask lilo :] 17:59:22 <Celestar> what exactly are you talking about? 17:59:37 <SmileyG> sorry Celestar, i know meeps from quakenet, he pointed me here and to the game... 17:59:43 <Celestar> ah :) 17:59:44 <SmileyG> is it easy for noobies to start? 17:59:55 <Celestar> if you have the original game yes :) 18:00:05 <SmileyG> ahahah nope 18:00:08 <SmileyG> i've never heard of it/. 18:00:18 <Celestar> but you (still) need the original data files :( 18:00:37 <Celestar> the rest is rather easy 18:00:39 <KUDr> [19:55:05] <Celestar> KUDr: http://bugs.openttd.org/task/84 <= Request for comments <-- yes, it is understandable and seems to be correct solution 18:00:42 <SmileyG> you do? :( 18:00:51 <SmileyG> well thats errr bugged it up :( 18:01:24 <Celestar> SmileyG: yeah, there are efforts to create own artwork. 18:01:31 <Celestar> but they're not finished. 18:01:39 <SmileyG> ok, could i legally get the files ? 18:01:54 <Celestar> purchase the game :P 18:02:01 <Celestar> (which is close to impossible) 18:02:16 <SmileyG> hum 18:02:22 <Celestar> the legal status of the data files is unknown. 18:02:24 <SmileyG> and how frowned upon is an illegal copy? 18:02:49 *** tokai [n=tokai@p54B84C2A.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit ["It's like, wah."] 18:03:01 <SmileyG> as i would love to try the game 18:03:04 <SmileyG> but heh 18:03:16 <Celestar> then "borrow" the datafiles of a friend who has the game :) 18:03:17 <Sacro> SmileyG: it is available... 18:03:48 *** Trippledence [n=Trippled@cust183-dsl52.idnet.net] has joined #openttd 18:03:49 <SmileyG> ok let me put it simpl;ly 18:03:54 <Celestar> ^^ 18:03:56 <SmileyG> i can't grab torrents, and limewire doesn't work 18:03:59 <SmileyG> >_< 18:04:04 * SmileyG realises something and rushes off 18:04:08 <Celestar> SmileyG: the datafiles are like 4 MB :P 18:04:12 * Sacro taps his foot, looks around, and coughts http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?t=3407 under his breath 18:04:23 <Sacro> s/coughts/coughs 18:04:29 <SmileyG> Oh.... i think i might just errm visit this forum 18:05:03 <Sacro> SmileyG: you should, its got some quite ...interesting information 18:05:30 * Celestar browser further through the bug reports. 18:05:43 <Celestar> peter1138: dyou have any newstats diff I could test? ;) 18:05:46 * Sacro pictures Celestar with a room full of printouts 18:05:58 <SmileyG> :D 18:06:01 <SmileyG> erm 18:06:04 <Celestar> Sacro: that pictures is not far from reality 18:06:05 <SmileyG> this is a big list... 18:06:22 <Celestar> Sacro: only that I'm not in a room full of bug reports :) 18:06:33 <SmileyG> as im in linux, i can't use an exe right? 18:06:53 <Celestar> no 18:06:56 <SmileyG> heh 18:07:04 <SmileyG> how would i go about getting the files then :op 18:07:05 <Celestar> but there are linux binaries and the source code :P 18:07:06 <Sacro> yeah, wine 18:07:07 <SmileyG> am i being dumb or something 18:07:10 <SmileyG> wine? 18:07:14 <SmileyG> i aint installing wine - 18:07:14 <Celestar> SmileyG: nope. 18:07:18 <Celestar> you need the orignial DATAFILES. 18:07:25 <Celestar> (sounds, pictures and stuff) 18:07:31 <SmileyG> so i need to install it somewhere... 18:07:32 <SmileyG> hum 18:07:39 <Celestar> sample.cat and trg*.grf 18:07:50 * Sacro makes sure noones paying attention to the previous link, especially the Transport Tycoon Deluxe (Windows) section... 18:07:50 <SmileyG> Also includes the sample.cat file, for if you want to install OTTD. 18:07:53 <SmileyG> something which said that? 18:08:22 <Sacro> and they come in handy - dandy zipped files 18:08:23 *** webfreakz [n=Ronald@195.73.147.226] has joined #openttd 18:08:32 <Celestar> hey webfreakz 18:08:38 <webfreakz> ey 18:09:01 * Celestar points SmileyG to http://wiki.openttd.org/index.php/Main_Page 18:10:03 *** Andrew67 [i=andrew67@206.248.80.224] has quit [Client Quit] 18:10:08 <webfreakz> celestar: do you have any idea on how I should use this function? http://svn.openttd.org/cgi-bin/trac.cgi/changeset/4485 18:11:07 <Celestar> webfreakz: YAPF? 18:11:23 <webfreakz> yes 18:11:34 <Celestar> webfreakz: you mean the pathfinder or the performance timer? 18:11:44 <webfreakz> the timer 18:11:54 <Celestar> ask KUDr, it's his timer ^^ 18:12:05 <webfreakz> i did 18:12:15 <webfreakz> but he's away or something 18:12:18 *** Andrew67 [n=andrew67@206.248.80.224] has joined #openttd 18:12:19 *** Andrew67` [n=andrew67@206.248.80.224] has joined #openttd 18:12:19 <webfreakz> ^^ 18:12:20 *** Andrew67 [n=andrew67@206.248.80.224] has quit [Client Quit] 18:12:20 <Celestar> well if you have a debug build, all the stuff gets printed to stdout. 18:12:23 *** Andrew67` [n=andrew67@206.248.80.224] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 18:12:33 *** Andrew67 [n=andrew67@206.248.80.224] has joined #openttd 18:12:33 <webfreakz> how can i use stdout? 18:12:41 <webfreakz> just the openttd-in-game-console? 18:12:46 <KUDr> here 18:12:46 <Celestar> what platform are you on? 18:12:52 <webfreakz> WinXP 18:12:57 <webfreakz> and i've got MSVC6 18:13:06 <webfreakz> so i thougt: give it a try :) 18:13:07 <Celestar> KUDr: help webfreakz I have no idea what "stdout" is on XP ;) 18:13:24 <KUDr> yeah will try 18:13:44 <KUDr> webfreakz: PM? 18:13:45 <Celestar> great \o/ 18:13:48 <webfreakz> KUDr: 18:13:55 <webfreakz> you said this in SVN commit: NPF : YAPF(type 2) : NTP = 30 : 3 : 1 18:14:09 <webfreakz> and i was wondered how i could calculatie this myself... 18:14:44 <KUDr> it should be 10 : 3 : 1 (corrected next commit) 18:14:51 <KUDr> but you see it 18:14:56 <KUDr> try ~ 18:15:02 <KUDr> you will see console 18:15:20 <peter1138> Celestar: no 18:15:28 <peter1138> Celestar: got big changes coming up to support them though 18:15:51 <webfreakz> when i open the console, i will see them immediately? 18:15:59 <Celestar> peter1138: cool stuff. 18:16:06 <Celestar> nice 18:16:10 <Celestar> BTTF on TV 18:16:27 <KUDr> webfreakz: they will come continuously if you have some vehicles 18:16:36 <webfreakz> ok, thx 18:16:48 <webfreakz> i will see tonight, gotta go to the movies now :) 18:17:22 <webfreakz> bye 18:17:23 *** webfreakz [n=Ronald@195.73.147.226] has left #openttd [] 18:18:39 *** KritiK [i=Maxim@ppp85-140-142-80.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #openttd 18:18:59 <Sacro> Celestar: channel? 18:19:44 <Sacro> to view stdout, either pipe to a text document, or run it under cmd 18:20:06 <Celestar> maybe 18:20:11 <Celestar> can't test, will not 18:20:17 <peter1138> oh good, the nightly built 18:20:22 *** Trippledence_ [n=Trippled@cust183-dsl52.idnet.net] has joined #openttd 18:20:22 <Celestar> peter1138: ? 18:20:36 <peter1138> well, there's been a lot of changes recently... new files etc 18:20:40 <Vornicus> hm. TGPerlin makes for tall coasts. 18:20:52 <Celestar> there have? 18:21:08 <peter1138> Celestar: well, newgrf vehicle names now pick the correct translation 18:21:12 <peter1138> that's one change 18:21:24 <Celestar> ok 18:21:28 <Celestar> nice 18:21:29 *** Zahl [n=SENFGURK@dslb-082-083-208-177.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #openttd 18:21:47 <Celestar> can't say I care because I usually run my system en_US 18:21:50 <Celestar> (= 18:21:51 <peter1138> well, english / german / french or spanish 18:21:54 <peter1138> heh 18:21:57 <peter1138> en_GB, please :P 18:22:32 <Celestar> peter1138: not mucho difference 18:23:14 <peter1138> colour 18:23:43 <Celestar> yeah I know 18:24:30 <Celestar> does anyone have the music files at his disposal? 18:24:39 <peter1138> yeah 18:24:51 <peter1138> i think 18:24:56 <Celestar> can you xmit them? 18:25:08 <peter1138> hmm 18:25:12 <peter1138> apparently i don't 18:25:20 <peter1138> ah. found 'em 18:25:27 <Celestar> I have them somewhere 18:25:32 <Celestar> but beagle doesn't find em 18:25:36 <peter1138> heh 18:25:42 <Sacro> xmit? 18:25:51 <peter1138> transmit 18:28:06 <Sacro> ahh, txmit 18:28:15 <Sacro> or just tx actually 18:28:56 <Celestar> hm 18:29:28 <Celestar> still no music volume set :( 18:30:50 <Celestar> food time 18:32:17 *** Qrrbrbirlbel [n=Qrr@p54A7F0A0.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 18:32:31 <peter1138> does my patch not work? :( 18:35:52 <SmileyG> ok guys i've got the base files 18:36:01 <SmileyG> the gm_* files in a /gm/ ,,,,, 18:36:06 <SmileyG> tim@beast ~/ttd $ ls 18:36:06 <SmileyG> gm sample.cat trg1r.grf trgcr.grf trghr.grf trgir.grf trgtr.grf 18:36:28 <SmileyG> i gotta mov ethem somewhere? 18:36:38 <C-Otto> data 18:36:42 <C-Otto> gm is music afaik 18:37:00 *** Trippledence_ [n=Trippled@cust183-dsl52.idnet.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 18:37:08 <SmileyG> ....# 18:37:10 <SmileyG> ih 18:37:12 <SmileyG> oh fek 18:37:22 *** Trippledence_ [n=Trippled@cust183-dsl52.idnet.net] has joined #openttd 18:37:31 *** Trippledence [n=Trippled@cust183-dsl52.idnet.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 18:37:48 <SmileyG> what about grf? 18:38:03 <C-Otto> data. 18:38:29 <SmileyG> so is that it? or is there some dir called data? 18:38:42 <C-Otto> just have a look 18:40:13 <SmileyG> tim@beast /usr/share/games/openttd/data $ ls 18:40:13 <SmileyG> autorail.grf dosdummy.grf opntitle.dat trkfoundw.grf 18:40:13 <SmileyG> canalsw.grf openttd.grf signalsw.grf 18:41:14 <C-Otto> notice anything? 18:41:22 <C-Otto> reading the man page would help too 18:41:23 <SmileyG> yeah 18:41:27 <SmileyG> i think i sorted it 18:41:33 <Qball> SmileyG: you need the orininal data files 18:41:40 <Qball> original 18:41:56 <Qball> sample.cat and some grf files 18:42:12 <SmileyG> tim@beast /usr/share/games/openttd/data $ ls 18:42:12 <SmileyG> autorail.grf openttd.grf signalsw.grf trghr.grf trkfoundw.grf 18:42:12 <SmileyG> canalsw.grf opntitle.dat trg1r.grf trgir.grf 18:42:12 <SmileyG> dosdummy.grf sample.cat trgcr.grf trgtr.grf 18:42:22 <SmileyG> ? 18:42:28 <Qball> that looks better 18:42:39 <SmileyG> :] 18:42:44 <SmileyG> it works 18:42:46 <SmileyG> :D 18:42:56 <Qball> so now what was the problem? 18:43:12 <SmileyG> notuhubg :] 18:46:08 *** Neonox [n=Neonox@ip-80-226-223-107.vodafone-net.de] has joined #openttd 18:48:08 <Sacro> damnit, just use $lol in php 18:49:17 <SmileyG> well im gonna have to learn to play that later :] 18:49:26 <SmileyG> u play online too? 18:51:32 <Sacro> i play online 19:01:41 *** Aankhen`` [n=pockled@203.101.13.112] has quit ["Error: Mouse not found. Do you have cat? (Y/N) [Time wasted online: 11hrs 48mins 12secs]"] 19:01:56 *** Andrew67 [n=andrew67@206.248.80.224] has quit [Client Quit] 19:04:24 *** BJH_ [n=chatzill@e176126063.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #openttd 19:04:57 *** Torrasque [n=jerome@166.212.186.195.cust.bluewin.ch] has joined #openttd 19:09:46 <SmileyG> is there any guide for noobies 19:09:54 <SmileyG> i looked at the wiki and i see one for installing... but not for playing 19:10:18 <MeusH> multiplayer :) 19:10:30 <MeusH> See how do other players play 19:10:35 <MeusH> ask questions on chat 19:10:42 <MeusH> or ask specific questions here 19:10:47 <SmileyG> can you spectate the multiplayer? 19:10:50 <MeusH> yes 19:10:53 <SmileyG> ah awesome 19:12:00 <SmileyG> theres no body playing :D 19:12:16 <SmileyG> is the idea to err provide transport to everyone? 19:13:06 <peter1138> pretty much 19:13:20 <SmileyG> :D 19:13:21 <SmileyG> ok 19:13:22 <SmileyG> hehe 19:17:12 *** MagicJohn [n=magical@host81-156-146-212.range81-156.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 19:17:44 *** MagicJohn [n=magical@host81-156-249-38.range81-156.btcentralplus.com] has joined #openttd 19:19:52 <SmileyG> heh thats weird ; 19:20:05 <CIA-3> KUDr * r4503 /branch/yapf/yapf/ (follow_track.hpp yapf.h yapf_node_rail.hpp yapf_rail.cpp): 19:20:05 <CIA-3> [YAPF] Fix: roadvehs and trains can't find a path through short (zero-length) tunnels (thanks Celestar) 19:20:05 <CIA-3> Add: PF for trains now takes in consideration track owner and rail type 19:20:05 <CIA-3> Add: penalty for nearby red signals 19:22:19 <Celestar> nice KUDr :) 19:22:22 <Celestar> how did you find that one :) 19:22:34 *** BJH [n=chatzill@e176125235.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 19:22:37 *** Torrasque [n=jerome@166.212.186.195.cust.bluewin.ch] has quit ["Ex-Chat"] 19:23:11 <KUDr> by tracing in debugger 19:23:21 <Celestar> ^^ 19:23:26 *** Trippledence_ [n=Trippled@cust183-dsl52.idnet.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 19:23:30 *** Trippledence_ [n=Trippled@cust183-dsl52.idnet.net] has joined #openttd 19:24:00 <Celestar> you still haven't decided between YAPF1 and YAPF2 ? 19:24:24 *** e1ko [n=31k0@161.157.broadband2.iol.cz] has quit ["Chatzilla 0.9.67+ [SeaMonkey 1.0.1/2006040400]"] 19:24:34 <KUDr> YAPF2 is my candidate if 90-deg turns allowed 19:25:02 <KUDr> if 90-deg disabled, then 3 (like 1) 19:26:02 <KUDr> the problem is, that if you disable 90-deg turns then Tile/ExitDir as a node key is insufficient 19:26:12 <Eddi|zuHause2> why do 90° curves make such a difference? 19:26:37 <Eddi|zuHause2> ah, i see... 19:26:41 *** Torrasque [n=jerome@166.212.186.195.cust.bluewin.ch] has joined #openttd 19:26:44 <KUDr> type 1 is like reference - if something doesn't work in type 2, i try it there 19:27:16 <Eddi|zuHause2> grr... these PBS are driving me nuts... 19:27:22 <MeusH> KUDr: I think we should decide about 90deg turns. I'm with removing them totally and saving you, and other developers from doing more work 19:28:08 <KUDr> MeusH: it is not more work for me - i use C++ templates 19:28:19 <MeusH> allright, as you wish 19:28:23 <KUDr> so compiler does the hard work for me 19:28:24 <MeusH> you're developer here :) 19:30:15 <Eddi|zuHause2> i could never adapt to design without 90° turns 19:30:19 <Eddi|zuHause2> i am too used to it 19:31:24 <SmileyG> 90degree turns in what? 19:31:25 <SmileyG> roads? 19:31:32 <Celestar> WTF? 19:31:32 <Eddi|zuHause2> rails 19:31:36 <SmileyG> ah 19:31:41 <SmileyG> ok then yeah i see why its errr 19:31:43 <SmileyG> debated 19:31:51 <KUDr> and ships 19:33:36 <peter1138> i dislike those 90° bends 19:33:41 <peter1138> looks nasty 19:34:03 <KUDr> same hee 19:34:08 <KUDr> here 19:34:29 <Celestar> yes. 19:34:53 <peter1138> unions: do we have to name them? 19:35:33 <CIA-3> KUDr * r4504 /branch/yapf/yapf.txt: [YAPF] Add: comments about train YAPF types 19:36:19 <KUDr> peter1138: i guess not, but i noticed some GCC problems with unnamed structs and unions 19:36:40 <peter1138> i'm using named structs 19:36:59 <peter1138> (they're defined separately, else it would be a two/three page union :)) 19:37:26 <KUDr> i meant unnamed struct inside unnamed union - to have all different flags and one byte that contains them 19:37:36 <peter1138> mmm 19:38:12 *** Jenkz [n=nobody@80-192-44-21.cable.ubr05.dund.blueyonder.co.uk] has quit [] 19:38:52 *** Rubidium [n=rubidium@rubidium.student.utwente.nl] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 19:39:05 *** blathijs [n=matthijs@katherina.student.utwente.nl] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 19:39:12 <KUDr> like: 19:39:13 <KUDr> union { 19:39:13 <KUDr> struct { 19:39:13 <KUDr> byte flag1:1; 19:39:13 <KUDr> byte flag1:2; 19:39:13 <KUDr> byte flag1:3; 19:39:15 <KUDr> }; 19:39:17 <KUDr> byte flags; 19:39:19 <KUDr> }; 19:39:41 <KUDr> oops :1 always 19:39:44 *** vondel [i=vondel@margo.student.utwente.nl] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 19:40:06 <peter1138> flag2:1 i presume :) 19:40:14 <KUDr> yes 19:40:38 <KUDr> too old and tired 19:40:41 <peter1138> hmm, can you use the :n syntax on named enums? 19:40:52 <peter1138> (more to the point, should you avoid it) 19:41:05 <Celestar> KUDr: please be award that we cannot use these types. 19:41:14 <KUDr> hmm can't imagine how 19:41:30 <KUDr> Celestar: why? 19:41:30 <Celestar> because Big Endian machines reverse the order. 19:41:37 <KUDr> and? 19:41:46 <KUDr> it must be saved as bits 19:41:50 <KUDr> not as byte 19:42:00 <KUDr> then everything will be ok 19:42:09 <KUDr> but code will be much cleaner 19:42:15 <Celestar> or you make two definitiions. 19:42:24 <Celestar> one for big endinan, one for little endian. 19:42:27 <KUDr> yes - also the common way 19:42:38 <KUDr> like in tcp.h or ip.h 19:42:40 <peter1138> or if you don't need to save it, don't worry :) 19:42:49 <KUDr> yes 19:43:07 <Celestar> yeah 19:48:05 <CIA-3> celestar * r4505 /trunk/ship_cmd.c: -Fix (FS#94) Ships can now be used to set up feeders as well. 19:48:16 <Celestar> one more bug report down 19:49:54 <MeusH> nice job 19:50:40 <Celestar> KUDr: about OPF, have you any idea what disable_tile_hash could be ? ;) 19:51:14 *** sk is now known as mowl 19:51:29 <KUDr> Celestar: i guess it disables open/closed lists 19:51:35 <Celestar> KUDr: and that means? 19:51:46 <KUDr> not real pathfinding 19:51:57 <Celestar> please elaborate 19:51:58 <KUDr> it should be good for special cases 19:52:16 <KUDr> like searching for all signals around segment 19:52:19 <KUDr> or so 19:52:30 *** Red [n=Red@81-86-117-11.dsl.pipex.com] has joined #openttd 19:52:35 <Celestar> so for normal pathfinding'? 19:52:54 <Celestar> no disable_tile_hash? 19:52:58 <Celestar> (ships use it) 19:52:59 <KUDr> hmm, i guess it is not for pathfinding 19:53:05 <KUDr> really? 19:53:07 <Celestar> yes. 19:53:19 <KUDr> then it is kind of optimisation 19:53:20 <Celestar> and road vehicles if the look for a depot. 19:53:30 <KUDr> hmm 19:53:31 <Celestar> but then they don't find the depot here and there. 19:53:40 *** x87 [n=x87@tor/session/external/x-5ef19d7cccbe6369] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 19:53:40 <Celestar> that's why I'm going to disable the disabling. 19:53:48 <KUDr> heh 19:53:56 <KUDr> try it and will see 19:54:12 <KUDr> now we have much faster machines than in the DOS era 19:54:36 <Celestar> KUDr: have a look: (wait) 19:55:52 <Celestar> DCC 19:56:04 *** StarLite [n=Star@StarLite.xs4all.nl] has joined #openttd 19:56:25 *** Trippledence_ [n=Trippled@cust183-dsl52.idnet.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 19:57:10 *** _Red [n=Red@81-86-117-11.dsl.pipex.com] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 19:58:39 <Celestar> http://bugs.openttd.org/task/120 <= this is weird. 19:58:51 *** scia [n=sciapode@AveloN.xs4all.nl] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 20:00:56 <KUDr> Celestar: what is that opf.sav? 20:01:02 *** Zerot [i=Zerot@g35026.upc-g.chello.nl] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 20:01:02 *** Zerot_ [i=Zerot@g35026.upc-g.chello.nl] has joined #openttd 20:01:13 <Celestar> a savegame (a similar one to the one I sent you before) 20:01:24 <Celestar> watch the 4 purple buses. they should be circling 20:01:35 <Celestar> then observe the order of such a bus 20:01:38 <KUDr> it is normal with opf 20:01:48 <KUDr> the destination is too far 20:01:52 <Celestar> no 20:01:56 <Celestar> it doesn't find the DEPOT 20:02:00 <Celestar> which is RIGHT THERE 20:02:11 <KUDr> aha 20:02:44 <Celestar> and if I enable the tile hash, it works nicely 20:03:04 <KUDr> ok, then you are big guru 20:03:14 <Celestar> nah. 20:03:17 <Celestar> I was just guessing 20:03:26 <KUDr> but good guess 20:03:29 <Celestar> because normally the RVs use the tile_hash 20:03:36 <Celestar> so enabling it is a good idea? 20:03:42 <KUDr> better than false assumption 20:04:08 <KUDr> it will be bit slower but if it works better, why not? 20:04:27 <KUDr> but do it for that case only 20:04:31 *** Andrew67 [n=andrew67@206.248.80.224] has joined #openttd 20:04:33 <KUDr> not generally 20:04:46 <KUDr> it can cause problems elsewhere 20:05:11 <Celestar> yes 20:05:15 <Celestar> of course 20:05:38 <Celestar> (the only case where it is used is for ships now) 20:08:03 *** _Red [n=Red@81-86-117-11.dsl.pipex.com] has joined #openttd 20:08:27 <CIA-3> celestar * r4506 /trunk/roadveh_cmd.c: -Fix: (FS#95) Use the tile hash when pathfinding to a depot. Eats a tiny bit of performance, but the likelihood that the depot is found is greatly increased 20:09:03 *** Mucht|zZz [n=Mucht@chello080109200215.3.sc-graz.chello.at] has quit ["I'll be back!"] 20:10:55 <CIA-3> celestar * r4507 /trunk/roadveh_cmd.c: Just a comment 20:10:59 *** Angst_ [n=Angst@p54947156.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 20:11:34 *** Jango [n=kvirc@puritan.demon.co.uk] has joined #openttd 20:14:07 *** Rubidium [n=rubidium@rubidium.student.utwente.nl] has joined #openttd 20:14:12 *** Mucht [n=Mucht@chello080109200215.3.sc-graz.chello.at] has joined #openttd 20:15:28 *** Red [n=Red@81-86-117-11.dsl.pipex.com] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 20:15:29 <Celestar> ok 20:15:32 <Celestar> question: 20:16:11 <Celestar> some raw materials are delivered to a station, and there are two industries within like 30 tiles which can accept them. which one should get it? 20:16:16 *** vondel [i=vondel@margo.student.utwente.nl] has joined #openttd 20:16:19 <Celestar> I vote for just the closest. 20:16:30 <hylje> hmm 20:16:35 <Celestar> currently it sucks 20:16:42 <hylje> distribute? 20:16:53 <XeryusTC> split it up between those two 20:16:59 <Celestar> the one which comes later in the array gets all 20:17:10 <Celestar> I don't think that splitting is a good idea. 20:17:17 <KUDr> Celestar: i vote to give them both something or have a choice (new gui) 20:17:33 <Celestar> new gui. 20:17:39 <Celestar> I need a quick bugfix. 20:18:20 <Celestar> that's why the game in the original version does NOT allow close-by industries. 20:18:27 <KUDr> then the closest one or if one has transpotred product, give it to this one 20:18:33 *** Angst [n=Angst@p54944870.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 20:18:34 *** blathijs [n=matthijs@katherina.student.utwente.nl] has joined #openttd 20:18:36 <Celestar> (of same type) 20:19:24 <Celestar> first of all, I make closest and I add a todo item for some better solution :) 20:19:33 <KUDr> ok 20:19:54 *** xahodo [n=xander@xahodo.demon.nl] has quit [] 20:19:55 <MeusH> consider this: 20:20:00 <MeusH> one industry is 10 tiles away 20:20:06 <MeusH> the second one is 20 tiles away 20:20:26 <MeusH> the first one may get 67%, the second one 33% 20:20:48 <KUDr> maybe 20:20:54 <Celestar> well 20:21:12 <MeusH> but it would require more computing, I know 20:21:24 <Celestar> we should only deliver to industries which are withing the catchment radius. 20:21:38 <KUDr> but in real life it will be taken by thi one that needs it more (will pay more for it) 20:22:28 <KUDr> Celestar: catchment radius can be configured, or not? 20:22:36 <Celestar> nope 20:22:44 <Celestar> the station spread can be configured 20:22:47 <Celestar> but I found the problem 20:22:51 <KUDr> aha 20:23:29 <Jango> has anyone ever heard of electrical interference (from PCs / monitors) breaking WLAN connectivity? 20:24:07 <KUDr> Jango: yep - close the PC case 20:24:07 <Jango> brb 20:24:16 <Jango> it's pretty much closed 20:24:33 <KUDr> then change CPU freq 20:24:38 <KUDr> it can help 20:24:57 <KUDr> or set spectrum spreading 20:25:10 <KUDr> in bios setup 20:25:26 *** Mucht [n=Mucht@chello080109200215.3.sc-graz.chello.at] has quit ["I'll be back!"] 20:25:38 <CIA-3> celestar * r4508 /trunk/economy.c: -Fix: (FS#125) Fixed a problem that caused DeliverGoodsToIndustry to not work as intended. Note: write something better for this entire function 20:26:17 <Celestar> Jango: switch channel 20:26:50 * Celestar fixed 4 bugs today \o/ 20:28:36 *** Mucht [n=Mucht@chello080109200215.3.sc-graz.chello.at] has joined #openttd 20:28:43 <KUDr> real guru 20:29:04 <Sacro> any yorkshire folk or nhs people - http://www.doncasterwestpct.nhs.uk/uploads/reports/GlossaryforInternationalRecruits.pdf 20:30:05 *** Angst_ [n=Angst@p54947156.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 20:30:48 <Celestar> er 20:31:00 <Celestar> http://bugs.openttd.org/task/130 <= has this been fixed? I cannot reproduce it. 20:33:07 <KUDr> do you have cygwin? 20:33:19 <Celestar> nope 20:33:27 <Celestar> but I cannot image that to surface only on cygwin 20:34:46 <KUDr> who knows 20:34:48 <Celestar> do you think Tron has a problem with me commiting stuff? 20:35:12 <Celestar> in the bridge branch 20:36:11 <peter1138> no 20:36:28 <peter1138> isn't that what it's for? :) 20:38:20 <Sacro> what is the bridge branch? 20:38:25 *** _Red [n=Red@81-86-117-11.dsl.pipex.com] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 20:38:44 <MeusH> and does it have a IRC channel? 20:39:05 <MeusH> Sacro: have you seen a screenshot of high bridge with level crossing and tunnel undernath? 20:39:11 <CIA-3> celestar * r4509 /branch/bridge/tunnelbridge_cmd.c: -Fix: compilation problem with 2 different declarations for GetBridgeHeight 20:39:30 <peter1138> http://195.112.37.102/ottd/bridge.png is the bridge branch 20:41:48 <KUDr> very nice pic 20:42:00 <Celestar> well. 20:42:01 <Celestar> it works. 20:42:03 <Celestar> .. 20:42:05 <Celestar> partially. 20:42:13 <MeusH> what do you mean? 20:42:14 <MeusH> partialyl 20:42:17 <MeusH> bleh 20:42:17 <hylje> buggy 20:42:21 <Celestar> there are problems. 20:42:30 <MeusH> yeah, what problems? 20:42:48 *** Jango [n=kvirc@puritan.demon.co.uk] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 20:42:50 <Celestar> heigh computations, vehicle reverse. 20:42:56 <Celestar> some others which I haven't found yet ^^ 20:43:04 <Celestar> I mean its very new a diff. 20:43:09 <Celestar> s/diff/branch 20:43:48 <MeusH> ahh allright 20:43:57 <MeusH> height computations are horrible 20:44:20 <MeusH> I'd like to know details on height computations developement 20:44:38 <peter1138> implicit foundations-- 20:44:42 <MeusH> Celestar: it doesn't work well on slopes, eh? 20:44:47 <Celestar> peter1138: http://bugs.openttd.org/task/82 <= I like that patch 20:44:54 <Celestar> MeusH: haven't tested yet. 20:45:08 <peter1138> you think it's worth doing? 20:45:21 <Celestar> peter1138: I WANT 4 corners per tile. 20:45:40 <Celestar> peter1138: yeah why not. it seems not like a HUGE effort. 20:47:03 <hylje> "if a boolean isn't true or false, then we have some bigger issues to address, no?" 20:47:17 <Celestar> hylje: lol 20:48:56 <Celestar> http://bugs.openttd.org/task/79 <= RFC 20:49:04 <Qball> when a boolean isn't true or false, it isn't a boolean 20:49:14 <MeusH> FS#82: "BEGIN_TILE_LOOP(tile_cur, MapSizeX(), MapSizeY(), 0);" <= seems like it goes through whole map 20:49:22 *** DJ_Mirage [n=djmirage@biggetje.xs4all.nl] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 20:49:24 <MeusH> fields are not spread all over the map 20:49:28 <peter1138> MeusH: yes, it needs fixing there 20:49:31 <MeusH> the tile loop may be reduced 20:49:35 <peter1138> MeusH: well spotted :) 20:49:45 <Celestar> how? 20:50:52 <MeusH> fields planting function is limited so fields don't get created everywhere 20:51:12 <MeusH> same limit should be applied to the tile loop that looks for fields to delete 20:51:26 <Celestar> ah that you mean. 20:51:26 <Celestar> true 20:52:09 <Celestar> http://bugs.openttd.org/task/63 <= some windows user, please test. 20:53:08 <MeusH> static void MaybePlantFarmField(const Industry* i) 20:53:15 <MeusH> some magic numbers are there 20:53:24 *** Forexs [i=Forexs@x1-6-00-0f-b5-14-63-5f.k136.webspeed.dk] has joined #openttd 20:53:25 <Celestar> I *hate* those "Maybe" functions. 20:54:00 <MeusH> FS#63: I'll download the music and check it 20:54:13 <MeusH> however, the bug is reported in 0.4.5 20:54:25 <MeusH> I'll be testing in the current svn version 20:55:23 <Celestar> http://bugs.openttd.org/task/26 <= KUDr ? :) 20:56:18 <peter1138> hmm! 20:56:21 <peter1138> ElectricFence Aborting: Allocating 0 bytes, probably a bug. 20:56:23 <peter1138> 166+> vl->sort_list = malloc(n * sizeof(vl->sort_list[0])); 20:56:25 *** Qrrbrbirlbel_ [n=Qrr@p54A7F0A0.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 20:56:29 <peter1138> n = 0 20:56:36 <peter1138> because i have no vehicles yet... 20:56:39 <Celestar> peter1138: you seem to like EFence? :) 20:56:48 <MeusH> do 16s in MaybePlantFarmField mean TILE_SIZE? 20:56:52 <peter1138> i found the gdb config for it 20:56:56 <peter1138> far nicer than plain efence 20:57:06 <Celestar> you did? :o 20:57:18 <hylje> Celestar: yep, Maybe boolean 20:57:27 <peter1138> /usr/share/doc/electric-fence/README.gdb on my box 20:57:28 <Celestar> hylje: ? 20:57:37 <hylje> liek, true, maybe, false 20:57:40 <peter1138> run [c]gdb, then type efence, then run :D 20:57:58 <KUDr> [22:57:26] <Celestar> http://bugs.openttd.org/task/26 <= KUDr ? :) <-- seems correct 20:58:36 <Celestar> ok 20:58:45 * Celestar is going to bed an will continue patching later. 20:58:53 <KUDr> you can commit another fix :) 20:58:58 <Celestar> I can? 20:59:07 <CIA-3> peter1138 * r4510 /trunk/ (newgrf.c newgrf_engine.c): 20:59:07 <CIA-3> - NewGRF bounds checking: 20:59:07 <CIA-3> - check Engine ID is within range 20:59:07 <CIA-3> - don't try setting a vehicle name if the string id is not a valid Engine ID 20:59:22 *** Red [n=Red@81-86-117-11.dsl.pipex.com] has joined #openttd 20:59:28 <KUDr> Celestar: BIGMULS 20:59:39 <Celestar> 2morrow. 20:59:40 <Celestar> cu 20:59:47 <KUDr> gn 21:00:22 <MeusH> goodnight 21:03:34 *** Neonox [n=Neonox@ip-80-226-223-107.vodafone-net.de] has quit ["muss wech"] 21:05:23 *** BurtyB [n=chris@cpc3-nwrk1-0-0-cust410.nott.cable.ntl.com] has joined #openttd 21:08:54 *** Belugas is now known as Belugas_Gone 21:10:20 *** black_Nightmare [n=Husky_dr@modemcable254.254-201-24.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #openttd 21:10:34 <black_Nightmare> anyone know how to remove a co password? (in multiplayer yeah and its my own co) 21:11:29 *** Osai [n=Osai@p54B36EFE.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 21:11:55 <MeusH> try changing password to nothing 21:11:56 <MeusH> aka "" 21:12:04 <MeusH> or put the password in the name of the company 21:12:10 <black_Nightmare> ty anyhow 21:14:12 *** Qrrbrbirlbel [n=Qrr@p54A7F0A0.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 21:15:14 *** sw4y [n=sw4y@snat2.arachne.czfree.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 21:17:54 *** Bjarni [n=Bjarni@0x50c79abe.virnxx14.adsl-dhcp.tele.dk] has joined #openttd 21:17:57 *** mode/#openttd [+o Bjarni] by ChanServ 21:18:12 <MeusH> hey Bjarni! 21:18:18 <Bjarni> hi MeusH 21:18:38 *** ledow [n=ledow@jaimejwalker.plus.com] has joined #openttd 21:19:30 *** Zahl [n=SENFGURK@dslb-082-083-208-177.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit ["YOU! It was you wasn't it!?"] 21:20:06 <CIA-3> KUDr * r4511 /branch/yapf/ (62 files in 5 dirs): Sync with trunk (4454:4510) 21:21:40 <Bjarni> KUDr: I have been wondering about yapf and got an idea 21:22:08 <KUDr> what idea 21:22:23 <Bjarni> instead of naming the junctions 0,1,2,3...., assign them numbers like in a hash, so you can make junction routing based on destination number 21:22:31 <Bjarni> kind of like how internet routers work 21:23:18 <Bjarni> if it is set up correctly, it would be fast, but I see a lot of problems I haven't found a solution to yet 21:23:23 <KUDr> hmm, not sure that i understand 21:23:47 <KUDr> you mean nodes in A*? 21:24:13 <KUDr> or you mean what we discussed month ago about optimizing? 21:24:48 <Bjarni> say you got a train entering a junction and it is heading for junction 583. The junction will then send it to a certain path since the destination is between 285 and 630 21:25:12 <hylje> :o 21:25:24 <hylje> so junction-based pathing? 21:25:28 <Bjarni> I'm not really sure if it is related to the talk we had earlier. This idea just came to me during a boring lecture 21:25:30 <KUDr> hmm, so caching the best path 21:25:39 <Sacro> ooh, and sigal numbering, and ooh ooh ooh, a signal controller mode 21:26:21 *** Qrrbrbirlbel_ [n=Qrr@p54A7F0A0.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 21:26:27 <KUDr> still not sure if i can cache the path 21:26:34 <Bjarni> <KUDr> hmm, so caching the best path <-- something like that, but instead of caching the best way to each junction, you cache the best way to a pool of junctions 21:26:40 <KUDr> i will need experimet with that 21:27:17 <KUDr> hmm, hard to imagine that 21:27:49 <Bjarni> I will make a drawing (or at least try to do so) 21:27:56 *** Osai is now known as Osai^bathing 21:28:46 *** Sian^_^ [n=Devilen@cpe.atm2-0-74539.0x50c6d2c6.virnxx17.customer.tele.dk] has joined #openttd 21:28:55 <KUDr> yeah, it would help i guess 21:30:36 <TL|Away> http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?t=24702 <- oh my goodness 21:30:39 <TL|Away> what a ...... 21:30:48 <TL|Away> can I call him a morron? 21:30:51 <Sacro> DaleStan? 21:30:59 <peter1138> tee lee 21:31:01 <peter1138> er, 21:31:01 <MeusH> maybye not. I hate such kind of wars 21:31:08 <MeusH> he helped OpenTTD a bit 21:31:08 <peter1138> hee, even 21:31:15 <MeusH> maybye I'm too gentle 21:31:17 <peter1138> different thread :P 21:31:18 <MeusH> but I wouldn't do so 21:31:28 <Sacro> i think my tinterweb is down :( 21:31:42 <MeusH> ahh 21:31:55 <MeusH> Sacro, you messed in my mind 21:32:01 <MeusH> TL|Away: he's yours 21:32:22 *** Red [n=Red@81-86-117-11.dsl.pipex.com] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 21:32:57 *** Red [n=Red@81-86-117-11.dsl.pipex.com] has joined #openttd 21:33:24 <Bjarni> http://www.student.dtu.dk/~s991088/ideas/ugly_drawing.png 21:33:35 <Bjarni> I thought that name fits my drawing :/ 21:34:06 <TL|Away> MeusH: tnx ;) 21:34:14 <valhallasw> it's so pretty, Bjarni 21:34:28 <Bjarni> anyway, image that a train reach junction 28 and it is heading for #5, it will then go north since junction 28 sends everything north if it is heading for less than 20 21:34:35 <KUDr> So list of best directions by node (or hash map) 21:34:53 <Bjarni> at junction 1 sends it to the right since it's less than 10 21:35:06 <Bjarni> yeah, kind of like a hash map/table/something 21:35:16 <Sian^_^> hmm ... dtu ... my brother is researching and doing some teaching there ... 21:35:21 <KUDr> but it will not work with just ranges 21:35:26 <Bjarni> junction 28 and 1 do not know where 5 is, but they do know how to forward the train in the right direction 21:35:29 *** Nubian [n=nubian@mrkvovy.kokotko.sk] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 21:35:38 <KUDr> you can have multiple paths to each node 21:35:55 <Bjarni> I know and I still wonder about that one 21:36:11 <KUDr> so map<node, direction> 21:36:42 <KUDr> it can be good for RVs 21:36:59 <KUDr> but trains must take in consideration signal states 21:37:38 <KUDr> then the best direction can change offten 21:38:01 *** Andrew67 [n=andrew67@206.248.80.224] has quit [Client Quit] 21:38:39 <KUDr> if it changes often, i don't know how to keep that map in sysnc 21:38:56 <KUDr> sync 21:39:10 <stillunknown> is there a way to determine important junctions? 21:39:41 <KUDr> stillunknown: good idea, hmm, but how to? 21:40:05 <stillunknown> can i tell my basic idea first? 21:40:12 <KUDr> stillunknown: this could help a lot for ships 21:40:25 <KUDr> there is still unsolved performance problem 21:41:03 *** Trippledence [n=Trippled@cust183-dsl52.idnet.net] has joined #openttd 21:41:15 <Bjarni> <stillunknown> can i tell my basic idea first? <-- go ahead 21:41:45 <KUDr> Bjarni: http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?t=24703 <-- can you stick it please? 21:41:46 <stillunknown> a rail network with a 100 trains will have maybe 10-20 main junctions/points in a network, let the main junctions do pathfinding to each other nearby junction 21:42:17 <stillunknown> once a train leaves the path the junction would take --> switch to individual pathfinding 21:43:14 <stillunknown> either because a piece of track is very busy or because the train is on the way to station 21:43:55 <stillunknown> travel by junction and let the junctions do most of the pathfinding, a lot of trains (i think) could follow that path 21:44:07 <stillunknown> and would "share" pathfinding 21:45:23 <stillunknown> identification of junctions would have to be determined by the amount of connected track in a region (i know this doesn't help for ships, but i may have an idea for that too) 21:45:47 <KUDr> stillunknown: yes, this is what i thought about month ago 21:45:55 <KUDr> but not so easy 21:46:06 <KUDr> they must load-balance and so on 21:47:27 <stillunknown> what if you store for each junction what junctions are directly connected to that junction 21:47:45 <KUDr> this is planned next phase 21:47:57 <KUDr> to skip segment cost calculations 21:48:13 <KUDr> as it takes 90% of CPU time now 21:48:28 <KUDr> so it can speed it up a lot 21:49:08 <stillunknown> how about storing in each junction the following things 21:49:24 *** Qrrbrbirlbel [n=Qrr@p54A7F0A0.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 21:49:52 <stillunknown> the combination of junctions need to get to any junction on the network and a combination of supertiles(4x4,8x8,16x16, etc) 21:50:11 <stillunknown> a train would take the smallest supertile and check for a junction in range 21:50:19 <stillunknown> otherwise it takes a bigger one 21:50:35 <Bjarni> what do you mean by supertiles? 21:50:37 *** Sacro [n=Sacro@83.100.253.27] has quit [" HydraIRC -> http://www.hydrairc.com <-"] 21:50:44 *** Trippledence [n=Trippled@cust183-dsl52.idnet.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 21:50:53 *** Trippledence [n=Trippled@cust183-dsl52.idnet.net] has joined #openttd 21:51:04 <Bjarni> you mean an area of say 16x16 tiles should be treated as one tile when routing long distances? 21:51:05 <stillunknown> basicly a number to identify a group of tiles 21:51:14 <Bjarni> ahh 21:51:25 <KUDr> this is very usefull for ships 21:51:46 <Bjarni> a bit like my idea to make junctions next to each other have IDs close to each other 21:52:22 <Brianetta> KUDr: Did you use ideas from the PDF I linked you to? 21:52:49 <Bjarni> can I see that pdf? 21:52:52 <KUDr> Brianetta: i tried, but seems bit unusable 21:52:56 <Brianetta> ah 21:53:01 <KUDr> but thanks 21:53:04 * Brianetta wasn't useful ): 21:53:09 <KUDr> can help in next life 21:53:32 <KUDr> anyway i learned a lot from it 21:53:50 <Brianetta> You're cacheing scores, though, so you must be doing some similar enhancement to A* 21:54:10 <stillunknown> what you basicly do is make priorities, paths that are often used are more optimised, every junction stores the combination of junctions which can be used to travel to any junction, every junction does pathfinding to nearby junctions (more if often used) 21:54:14 <KUDr> not scores 21:54:19 <KUDr> only segment costs 21:54:29 <KUDr> this will be next step now 21:54:30 <Brianetta> Isn't that a score? 21:54:45 <KUDr> there was score to the destination 21:54:51 <Brianetta> right 21:54:53 <KUDr> but i have many destinations 21:55:10 <Brianetta> stillunknown: Junctions aren't entities, so that's pretty difficult 21:55:13 <KUDr> so it is like partial score, yes 21:56:03 <stillunknown> perhaps an enhancement to indicate important junctions (which are built to take lots of trains) in the game 21:56:46 <stillunknown> and do an estimate based on track layout in the area(i know this is not easy) 21:57:23 *** ThePizzaKing [n=thepizza@c211-28-155-182.eburwd2.vic.optusnet.com.au] has joined #openttd 21:57:43 <KUDr> stillunknown: if i can tell what nodes are most used (it is possible to count passing trains or so), then i would rather try to balance its load and redirect some other trains to more expensive but free paths 21:58:28 <stillunknown> i assume when a track splits up it gets a special state? 21:58:34 <stillunknown> how are nodes determined? 21:58:54 <KUDr> node is combination of TileIndex and ExitDir 21:59:02 <KUDr> or TileIndex and TrackDir 21:59:05 <Bjarni> I just got an idea (I'm not sure how CPU friendly it is though). How about (on new day event or something) each junction gain a score for each train trying to get in (waiting at red signal) and reduce the score if nobody is trying to get in. This way if all the trains decide to go the same way, the trains that could easily have picked another way will select the other way quickly. Another bonus from this is that everybody will avoi 21:59:05 <Bjarni> d a deadlock since it will get 0xFFFF score/penalty quickly since it never drops. Everybody will avoid such a large penalty and a news item can warn about it 22:00:04 <MeusH> very good idea 22:00:19 <MeusH> unclear at first, but re-reading it made it clear 22:00:21 <KUDr> heh - looks good 22:01:07 <KUDr> it can be used mostly for load balancing 22:01:21 <KUDr> for multi-line tracks 22:02:16 <Bjarni> it also mean that if a train got the same length for two options in it's route, it will pick the least trafficked one 22:03:29 <Brianetta> s/junction/signal block 22:03:32 <Brianetta> Make it general 22:03:40 <Brianetta> then you don't have to try to define a junction 22:03:44 <KUDr> now i do simpler thing: i count signals on the path and for each red one i add a penalty = const >> num_signals_passed 22:03:47 <Brianetta> or get confused by a crossing 22:04:01 <Brianetta> KUDr: Somebody wrote a patch that did that to NPF 22:04:04 <Brianetta> it worked really well 22:04:15 <KUDr> really? 22:04:31 <KUDr> and i was proud that i found such nice idea ;) 22:05:18 <stillunknown> i think this is it: http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?t=24469 22:07:41 <stillunknown> i had an idea 22:09:31 <stillunknown> what if the first few trains to travel a route do individual pathfinding --> store routes and once you have many routes you can check where they cross --> add those to a junction pool and once a train has traveled a route once or twice 22:09:46 <MeusH> goodnight everybody 22:09:47 <MeusH> later 22:09:56 *** MeusH [n=MeusH@host-ip18-138.crowley.pl] has quit ["Goodbye"] 22:10:11 <stillunknown> you can identify the first and last junction and actually let the junctions do pathfinding once it reaches a junction 22:11:30 <KUDr> stillunknown: it works so now - the pathfinding runs just before each junction 22:11:54 <stillunknown> so between junctions pathfinding is already shared? 22:12:05 <KUDr> no 22:12:12 <KUDr> it runs again and again 22:12:28 <KUDr> because it can produce fifferent results 22:12:32 <stillunknown> maybe i can make a drawing 22:12:37 <stillunknown> of what i mean 22:12:39 <KUDr> the path changes between runs 22:17:18 *** jnmbk [n=jnmbk@81.213.71.218] has quit ["Konversation terminated!"] 22:18:50 <stillunknown> http://img152.imageshack.us/img152/4186/drawing12hl.jpg 22:19:34 <stillunknown> imagine that two trains have had the same path a few times, the green part is shared, in that part the trains could use the same pathfinding because they travel the same route 22:19:37 <Bjarni> what if there are two equally good ways that could be the green arrow? 22:19:48 <stillunknown> the green is shared route 22:20:07 <Born_Acorn> peter1138! newstations! 22:20:07 <Bjarni> it would mean that all trains use the same track 22:20:13 <peter1138> yeah yeah 22:20:17 <Bjarni> !slap Born_Acorn 22:20:19 <jmp_ghli> >Bjarni> Bjarni has a picture about Born_Acorn getting a used pair of superman underpants as a birthday present. 22:20:27 <Bjarni> we are talking pathfinding, not sprites 22:20:40 <Prof_Frink> Born_Acorn! something! 22:20:45 <Born_Acorn> I don't have a lower torso! 22:20:49 <Born_Acorn> I lost it in the war! 22:21:04 <stillunknown> what you want is pathfinding that scales, especially on mainlines 22:21:53 <stillunknown> once a train has trouble reaching destination you do a second complete pathfinding to conform that the stored route of junctions is ok 22:22:00 <stillunknown> *confirm 22:22:54 <KUDr> stillunknown: pathfinding is not abou finding a path but it must dynamically find the BEST path 22:23:03 <KUDr> and the BEST is very important 22:23:27 <KUDr> as it can mean that the path will be always different 22:23:41 <KUDr> based on the signal states and so on 22:23:46 <Bjarni> finding A path is easy and quick. Finding the BEST part is tricky 22:23:57 <KUDr> yes 22:24:10 <Darkvater> he, back 22:24:16 <KUDr> hi 22:24:42 <Bjarni> hi Darkvater 22:25:02 <KUDr> http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?t=24703 <-- can somebody stick it, please? 22:25:16 <stillunknown> assume that you already know junctions (or nodes as you call them), does the system do i prescan of somekind which indicate the rough path? 22:25:27 <Bjarni> KUDr: done 22:25:31 <KUDr> thanks 22:26:57 <stillunknown> what about scanning the path once, store nodes it passes, at each node scan if path is still as good as before and then put the train in a pool which is going from node X to node Y? 22:27:34 <stillunknown> *at each node scan if the path to the next node is as good as before 22:28:02 <KUDr> stillunknown: it is the same as planning the path for each train - but path states change each tick 22:28:16 <Born_Acorn> I remember there was another thread that got stickied. Nobody read it, because they weren't expecting it up there. 22:28:32 <KUDr> hmm 22:28:44 <KUDr> hopefully it will not be the case 22:28:48 <Born_Acorn> Was that one of your threads Darkvater? 22:29:24 <Born_Acorn> I remember it happened, but not whose thread it was. 22:30:06 <KUDr> till now 50 - it is not bad 22:30:37 <Bjarni> <Born_Acorn> Was that one of your threads Darkvater? <-- no, it was mine 22:30:44 <Born_Acorn> Ah. 22:31:11 <Bjarni> nobody wrote anything in it and once it got unstickied, it got a zillion replies in no time 22:31:14 <Born_Acorn> When you unstickied it and posted a message in it, people started noticing. 22:31:14 <Bjarni> o_O 22:31:20 <Born_Acorn> Yeah 22:31:52 <stillunknown> KUDr: so the actual path finding is close to maximum performance as it is? 22:32:18 <KUDr> stillunknown: no, but it is full and dynamic 22:32:43 <KUDr> the performance improvements should not go against that requirements 22:32:54 <KUDr> but are welcome 22:33:13 <KUDr> like what i plan now - the segment cost cache 22:33:44 <KUDr> can't be used for nearby trains, but after let say 10 signals passed it can be used 22:34:32 <Darkvater> KUDr: stickied 22:34:44 * stillunknown is going to bed, if i think of anything i will let you know 22:35:00 <Darkvater> KUDr: although to get it tested you will probably need binaries with it 22:35:01 <KUDr> Darkvater: thanks 22:35:03 <Darkvater> hm 22:35:05 <Darkvater> TL|Away: ping 22:35:23 <KUDr> for windows or more 22:35:38 <Darkvater> windows definitely since windows users don't know how to compile 22:35:42 <Darkvater> the majority at least 22:36:05 <KUDr> true 22:36:22 <Born_Acorn> People might flood you with binary requests! 22:36:52 <KUDr> i will do that, thanks for note 22:37:17 *** Prof_Frink [n=proffrin@cpc1-shep3-0-0-cust920.leic.cable.ntl.com] has quit ["/quitiup\"] 22:39:18 *** Brianetta [n=brian@82-39-48-88.cable.ubr03.benw.blueyonder.co.uk] has quit ["Tschüß"] 22:44:39 *** Prof_Frink [n=proffrin@cpc1-shep3-0-0-cust920.leic.cable.ntl.com] has joined #openttd 22:48:37 *** Cheery [i=Henri@a81-197-61-21.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has quit ["Leaving"] 22:49:22 <Born_Acorn> Celestar, peter1138, do you two know why custom catenary graphics cannot be loaded? Is it intentional or not intentional? 22:51:13 <Born_Acorn> Ive been trying to make this new dutch catenary work, but it shows MB's all the time 22:51:43 <Darkvater> Born_Acorn: elrailsw.grf is hardcoded to load up 22:51:57 <Darkvater> it might work if you delete it and put in the dutch catenary with the elrailsw.grf name 22:52:08 <Born_Acorn> no, I tried that, it didn't. 22:52:29 <Born_Acorn> "cannot load erailsw.grf" was the error when I tried that 22:52:39 <Darkvater> hmm, MD5 error? 22:53:30 <Darkvater> Born_Acorn: are you sure? 22:53:32 <Born_Acorn> hmm. strange. this time it's loaded 22:53:47 <Darkvater> .. 22:53:59 <Born_Acorn> Ooh. The graphics are pretty 22:54:10 <Darkvater> ss! 22:54:50 <Born_Acorn> I'll upload one 22:55:54 <Born_Acorn> http://graphics.tt-terminal.co.uk/dutchcat1.png 22:56:20 *** Neonox [n=Neonox@ip-80-226-186-228.vodafone-net.de] has joined #openttd 22:57:20 <Darkvater> ohoooh 22:57:42 <Darkvater> pretty... 22:57:51 <Darkvater> what's the stone-bridge? 22:58:00 <Born_Acorn> Thats Pikkabird's 22:58:23 <Born_Acorn> http://www.pikkarail.com/ttdp/ukrs/download.htm 22:59:21 <Born_Acorn> Replaces the wooden one with an 80mph brick viaduct bridge. More expensive than a Steel Girder bridge though. 22:59:26 <Darkvater> ah 23:00:16 <Darkvater> o:) 23:00:24 <Darkvater> http://graphics.tt-terminal.co.uk/guiexample.PNG 23:00:27 <Darkvater> like this mockup ;) 23:00:59 <XeryusTC> Darkvater: having something like that would be nice :) 23:02:14 <Darkvater> http://graphics.tt-terminal.co.uk/guimocks/railguimock.png 23:02:17 <Darkvater> this one as well :) 23:02:18 <Born_Acorn> Yeah, I've imagined TTD having a more modern GUI, something more visual than text only. 23:02:37 <XeryusTC> Darkvater: that one's cool too :) 23:02:39 <Born_Acorn> So I made some mockups. 23:03:13 <XeryusTC> Darkvater: is there a documentation available for ottd? 23:03:21 <Darkvater> what kind? 23:03:42 <XeryusTC> something doxygen like preferably :) 23:03:52 <Darkvater> yeah 23:03:57 <ArmEagle> ..not that i want it.. but how do you get electric 'rails' supported by the game? 23:04:00 <Darkvater> http://docs.openttd.org/ 23:04:08 <Darkvater> ArmEagle: nightly 23:04:18 <XeryusTC> Darkvater: nice :) 23:04:28 <Darkvater> although it is not complete 23:04:33 <ArmEagle> yeah sorry, i'm lazy ;) 23:05:10 <Darkvater> np 23:05:15 <ArmEagle> doh sorry that link wasn't for me ;) 23:05:27 <Darkvater> ArmEagle: no, your link is nightly.openttd.org 23:05:35 <XeryusTC> ArmEagle: http://xeryustc.cjb.net/openttd/openttd.rar <- my (old) custom build :) 23:05:47 <ArmEagle> hmm nightly.. just compiled the svn. anyway i like it the way it is now ;) 23:05:57 <ArmEagle> was just wondering 23:06:13 <Darkvater> ArmEagle: svn is good as well 23:06:19 <Darkvater> nightly is svn 23:06:22 <Darkvater> at night 23:06:40 <ArmEagle> ;) 23:07:02 *** Qrrbrbirlbel [n=Qrr@p54A7F0A0.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 23:07:37 <XeryusTC> docs.openttd.org has a weird layout, mine looks like the standard: http://xeryustc.cjb.net/doxygen 23:08:01 <XeryusTC> well not completely standard, but sort of 23:08:35 <Darkvater> donnu why it's like that, ask celestar or truelight :) 23:09:00 <|Jeroen|> tetn 23:09:05 <XeryusTC> they're both sleeping i guess :( 23:10:41 *** Mucht is now known as Mucht|zZz 23:11:04 *** Andrew67 [n=andrew67@206.248.80.224] has joined #openttd 23:11:11 *** shintah [i=bebble@bebble.olf.sgsnet.se] has quit ["<volcone> tycker inte man borde få idrotta i skolan, eftersom man springer så jävulskt mkt i wow"] 23:11:23 *** |Jeroen| [n=users@dD57729A7.access.telenet.be] has quit ["bla"] 23:11:39 *** Sian^_^ [n=Devilen@cpe.atm2-0-74539.0x50c6d2c6.virnxx17.customer.tele.dk] has quit [] 23:13:02 *** Osai^bathing [n=Osai@p54B36EFE.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [] 23:13:58 <XeryusTC> http://graphics.tt-terminal.co.uk/aquamock.png aquaduct \o/ 23:15:30 <ArmEagle> ah doh.. this new svn apparently converted my tracks to electric tracks automatically.. 23:15:32 <Eddi|zuHause2> why is that thing called .png when it's actually a .bmp? 23:15:56 <Eddi|zuHause2> ArmEagle: yes, it does that, when an electric engine is present in old savegames 23:16:00 <XeryusTC> to make your browser do weird things 23:16:28 <Eddi|zuHause2> well... if you count "open paint" as "weird", then yes... 23:16:51 <Eddi|zuHause2> guys... we must do something about these refit costs 23:16:56 <XeryusTC> opera just loads it from bottom to top 23:17:28 <Eddi|zuHause2> it is plain ridiculous to pay 7000 to refit a wagon which costs 3000 from coal to ore 23:17:41 <Eddi|zuHause2> where all you have to do is fill something different in 23:18:11 <XeryusTC> you want it to cost more or less? 23:18:27 <Eddi|zuHause2> less! 23:18:58 <Eddi|zuHause2> i am pretty sure there are actually reasonable refit costs defined in the newgrf 23:19:44 <Eddi|zuHause2> oh... and for comparison: a ship that costs 70000 costs only 1000 to refit to ore 23:19:48 <XeryusTC> it seems sensible to me that it should cost more, you first have to remove the old stuff in the wagon, then prepare it for the new stuff and build the new stuff in 23:20:51 <Eddi|zuHause2> it is a damn open wagon... you don't prepare anything... you just throw the stuff in it 23:21:36 <Eddi|zuHause2> why would the wagon care if it is carrying ore or coal? 23:21:40 *** Sacro [n=Sacro@adsl-83-100-150-126.karoo.KCOM.COM] has joined #openttd 23:22:14 <XeryusTC> because coal is heavier iirc 23:22:41 <Eddi|zuHause2> you completely miss the point... 23:22:51 <Eddi|zuHause2> it is not that it costs something... it is the RELATION 23:22:52 <Born_Acorn> XeryusTC, peter1138 asked me to draw that a while back. He must have something in mind. 23:23:12 <XeryusTC> no i don't, i get that you want to say that they are completely the same 23:23:41 <Eddi|zuHause2> yes, in that particluar case the cost should really be 0 23:23:50 <XeryusTC> Born_Acorn: you're talking about the aquaduct? 23:23:55 <Eddi|zuHause2> for others, it should not... 23:24:18 <XeryusTC> Eddi|zuHause2: that's true, lomo lets you use one wagon for multiple cargo types 23:24:29 <Eddi|zuHause2> in any case... it should not be twice the cost of the entire wagon 23:24:31 <Born_Acorn> Yes 23:24:32 <XeryusTC> that is one thing that i want to see in ottd 23:24:48 <Born_Acorn> and as peter1138 told me, its spelt "aqueduct" :p 23:24:55 *** Mukke [n=Mukke@x1-6-00-13-8f-3d-00-a9.k146.webspeed.dk] has quit [] 23:25:06 <XeryusTC> :P 23:25:26 <Eddi|zuHause2> i don't pretend to know latin, but i would spell it aquaeduct 23:25:51 <Eddi|zuHause2> (because it's "Aquädukt" in german) 23:25:58 <Prof_Frink> What have the romans ever done for us? 23:26:09 <Born_Acorn> The health system 23:26:13 <Born_Acorn> roads 23:26:15 <Born_Acorn> :p 23:26:18 <XeryusTC> http://dictionary.reference.com/search?r=2&q=aqueduct 23:26:24 <XeryusTC> so it's aqueduct 23:26:28 * Born_Acorn got that reference 23:26:57 * Prof_Frink says "Ni!" at Born_Acorn 23:27:06 <Born_Acorn> The Life of Brian, Prof_Frink! 23:27:15 <Eddi|zuHause2> "Latin aquaeductus" <- see, i was not that far off ;) 23:28:03 <Born_Acorn> The knights of Ni! 23:29:23 <orudge> ni! 23:30:10 * XeryusTC greets orudge 23:30:13 <Prof_Frink> Ecky-ecky-ecky-ecky-p'tang-zoo-boing-goodem-zu-owly-zhiv! 23:30:30 <XeryusTC> "Ushi says hi" 23:32:21 <orudge> Hello 23:33:48 <Darkvater> ey owen 23:36:54 <vondel> this will learn to turn off autosave: an evening of playing --> openttd freezes 23:38:34 *** Bjarni [n=Bjarni@0x50c79abe.virnxx14.adsl-dhcp.tele.dk] has quit ["Leaving"] 23:40:35 <orudge> Hello people 23:40:50 * XeryusTC greets orudge again ;) 23:40:56 <orudge> Hello more people 23:41:40 *** ^Cartman^ [n=Eric_Car@ti100710a081-1660.bb.online.no] has quit ["Bunchie!"] 23:42:46 *** BJH_ [n=chatzill@e176126063.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit ["ChatZilla 0.9.61 [Mozilla rv:1.7.12/20050915]"] 23:56:09 *** Trippledence [n=Trippled@cust183-dsl52.idnet.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 23:56:42 *** Trippledence [n=Trippled@cust183-dsl52.idnet.net] has joined #openttd