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00:00:38 <RichK67_> glx: any thoughts on how i can repaint the update window? 00:00:58 <glx> still compiling :) 00:05:01 <RichK67_> ive tried allsorts - the window is there, and is getting updated, but it doesnt get repainted. if i call UpdateWindows() it throws an error "invalid string id0 in GetString" ... i think it is when it tries to repaint the cash amount in the status bar 00:13:35 <glx> RichK67_: why did you put 00:13:36 <glx> SetWindowDirty(w); 00:13:36 <glx> MarkWholeScreenDirty(); 00:13:36 <glx> in window paint? 00:13:58 <RichK67_> guessing 00:17:33 <glx> there's a warning in main_gui.c 00:20:03 <RichK67_> saying what? 00:20:36 <glx> 'ResetLandscape' defined but not used 00:20:47 <glx> line 1087 00:20:53 <RichK67_> ah - ignore it.... doesnt matter (for now) 00:22:44 *** Trippledence__ [n=Trippled@cust183-dsl52.idnet.net] has joined #openttd 00:22:44 *** Trippledence_ [n=Trippled@cust183-dsl52.idnet.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 00:36:35 *** Trippledence_ [n=Trippled@cust183-dsl52.idnet.net] has joined #openttd 00:38:18 *** Sacro [n=Sacro@adsl-83-100-157-228.karoo.KCOM.COM] has quit [" HydraIRC -> http://www.hydrairc.com <- The professional IRC Client"] 00:39:54 <black_Nightmare> brianetta..if you're there I got something to say in the game :p 00:42:41 <XeryusTC> http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?p=436163#436163 :) 00:43:42 *** RichK67_ [n=RichK67@194.164.100.143] has quit [] 00:44:05 <Vornicus> glx: there's a lot of those. 00:44:39 <glx> Vornicus: about what? 00:48:35 <Vornicus> defined but not used warnings. 00:48:35 <Vornicus> I get more than 100 when I build. 00:48:42 <glx> only this one for tgp 00:49:06 <glx> and I don't get any in trunk 00:49:32 <Vornicus> I get lots about airports in trunk. 00:50:31 *** jong [n=jong@flipflip.student.utwente.nl] has quit ["Konversation terminated!"] 00:51:49 *** Trippledence__ [n=Trippled@cust183-dsl52.idnet.net] has quit [Connection timed out] 00:55:25 *** lyovyn [i=user@209-6-130-90.c3-0.sbo-ubr1.sbo.ma.cable.rcn.com] has left #openttd [] 01:07:23 *** Born_Acorn [n=bornacor@AC8D6533.ipt.aol.com] has quit [] 01:16:51 *** BJH_ [n=chatzill@e176127142.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit ["ChatZilla 0.9.61 [Mozilla rv:1.7.12/20050915]"] 01:38:48 <Brianetta> OK 01:40:01 *** Osai^2 [n=Osai@p54B3740C.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 01:44:07 *** KritiK [i=Maxim@ppp85-140-142-232.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit ["Miranda IM! Smaller, Faster, Easier. http://miranda-im.org"] 01:59:20 *** Brianetta [n=brian@82-39-48-88.cable.ubr03.benw.blueyonder.co.uk] has quit ["Tschüß"] 02:11:33 <black_Nightmare> just wondering but like when you think the electric rails would be in the release? (not just the nightly build) 02:23:20 <Vornicus> When they make a new release. 02:23:56 <glx> I think it's no new feature before 0.5, but I can be wrong 02:27:05 <black_Nightmare> hm ok thanks anyhow 02:27:07 <black_Nightmare> was just curious 02:27:21 <black_Nightmare> say..any of you tried pikka's uksr transets? 02:27:40 <glx> yes, it's not bad 02:27:47 <glx> I like DBSetXL too 02:28:49 <black_Nightmare> heh I like the variety finally :p 02:28:57 <black_Nightmare> sometimes a bit hard to pick which one to use but who cares :)) 02:29:08 <black_Nightmare> oh yeah and I have one farm that has two seperate lines to factory because... 02:29:17 <black_Nightmare> the grain cars can move faster than the livestock one does ^_^ 02:29:19 <black_Nightmare> kinda more fun 02:29:42 <glx> with recent svn changes you can now know for what an engine is designed 02:29:56 <black_Nightmare> yeah...I already do so quickly 02:30:05 <black_Nightmare> BR HST pulling a short passenger train quickly and... 02:30:21 <black_Nightmare> doubleheaded DR 2-10-0's hauling a heavy grain train 02:30:56 <glx> btw with wagon speed limit, there's no need to put a fast engine in front of a cargo train 02:31:14 <black_Nightmare> like I was saying :p 02:31:37 <black_Nightmare> the 2-10-0's are only 104km/h but they sure can take any loads you want to throw at them 02:33:34 <black_Nightmare> oh and the two tiny engines are amusing 02:34:03 <black_Nightmare> there's either a 0-4-0 saddle steam engine for 56km/h or the class 09 shunter for 40km/h but both are dirty cheap 02:34:23 <black_Nightmare> well I'm going to bed...bye till tomorrow ;) 02:35:59 *** black_Nightmare [n=Husky_dr@modemcable065.248-200-24.mc.videotron.ca] has left #openttd ["bye"] 02:41:33 *** Tobin [n=Tobin@c211-28-197-129.eburwd7.vic.optusnet.com.au] has joined #openttd 02:49:34 *** glx [i=glx@bny93-6-82-245-156-124.fbx.proxad.net] has quit ["Bye!"] 03:02:48 *** Zahl [n=SENFGURK@dslb-082-083-210-165.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit ["YOU! It was you wasn't it!?"] 03:21:41 *** Angst [n=Angst@p54946F6A.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit ["n8"] 03:23:01 *** DaleStan_ [n=Dale@12-202-240-195.client.insightBB.com] has joined #openttd 03:23:12 *** DaleStan [n=Dale@12-202-240-195.client.insightBB.com] has quit [Nick collision from services.] 03:33:02 *** Tobin [n=Tobin@c211-28-197-129.eburwd7.vic.optusnet.com.au] has quit [] 03:36:00 *** Trippledence [n=Trippled@cust183-dsl52.idnet.net] has joined #openttd 03:36:42 *** Trippledence_ [n=Trippled@cust183-dsl52.idnet.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 03:44:57 *** Trippledence [n=Trippled@cust183-dsl52.idnet.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 03:45:13 *** Trippledence [n=Trippled@cust183-dsl52.idnet.net] has joined #openttd 04:03:14 *** ThePizzaKing [n=thepizza@c211-28-155-182.eburwd2.vic.optusnet.com.au] has left #openttd [] 04:07:42 *** ThePizzaKing [n=thepizza@c211-28-155-182.eburwd2.vic.optusnet.com.au] has joined #openttd 04:30:17 *** DaleStan_ is now known as DaleStan 04:42:16 *** jnmbk [n=jnmbk@85.101.209.68] has joined #openttd 04:53:34 *** jnmbk [n=jnmbk@85.101.209.68] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 04:53:37 *** jnmbk [n=jnmbk@85.101.209.68] has joined #openttd 04:56:17 *** Trippledence_ [n=Trippled@cust183-dsl52.idnet.net] has joined #openttd 04:56:17 *** Trippledence [n=Trippled@cust183-dsl52.idnet.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 05:01:47 *** tokai|ni [n=tokai@p54B82C1E.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #openttd 05:04:04 *** Trippledence_ [n=Trippled@cust183-dsl52.idnet.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 05:04:30 *** Trippledence_ [n=Trippled@cust183-dsl52.idnet.net] has joined #openttd 05:13:14 *** tokai [n=tokai@p54B81692.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 05:37:06 *** joed_ [n=James@CPE-203-51-167-192.vic.bigpond.net.au] has joined #openttd 06:11:20 *** Tron_ is now known as Tron 06:14:19 <Tron> <Celestar> http://bugs.openttd.org/task/142 <= should we fix this for 0.4.8 ? <-- technically it's not a bug 06:14:57 <Tron> the upper train just starts a little bit earlier 06:18:59 <Tron> <Darkvater> Celestar: donnu why you backported 4304,4309,4310,4312 and 4313 though. It was only code cleanup <-- at least 4312 is a bug fix, i just failed to mark it as such 06:38:45 *** ^Cartman^ [n=Eric_Car@ti100710a081-2454.bb.online.no] has joined #openttd 06:39:15 <Tron> KUDr: your last commit seems incomplete. there are at fource places in tunnelbridge_cmd.c which change the tracks (build/remove bridge/tunnel), but you only added one callback 06:39:26 <Celestar> Tron: morning 06:39:31 <Tron> s/at fource/four/ 06:39:41 <Tron> never change a sentence halfway through 06:39:49 <Celestar> lol 06:40:07 <Tron> Celestar: did you read my comment about #142 a few lines up? 06:40:23 <Celestar> yes I do 06:40:39 <Celestar> and I agree 06:40:52 <Celestar> but it's annoying. 06:40:52 <Celestar> however, there is no way to fix it with the current system. 06:41:18 <Celestar> so possibly that's for 0.5.0 or even later. 06:41:33 <Celestar> Tron: did you happen to have a chance to look at my new tile types? 06:42:02 <Tron> %svn di svn://svn.openttd.org/branch/0.4 svn://svn.openttd.org/trunk | wc -l 06:42:02 <Tron> 69288 06:42:03 <Tron> ... 06:42:21 <Tron> i'm not sure what you're talking about 06:42:27 <Vornicus> what's "di" do? 06:43:37 <Tron> di(ff) 06:43:46 <Celestar> Tron: http://www.fvfischer.de/newtiletypes.diff <= I'm introducing specific tile types for road and rail bridges. The idea being that MP_RAILWAY and MP_RAILWAY_BRIDGE have the same internal layout (save for the 4 bits for bridge type) which should result in much less special casing. 06:43:47 <Vornicus> aah 06:44:44 <Celestar> (same for MP_STREET and MP_STREET_BRIDGE) 06:44:49 <Celestar> me->breakfast(); 06:54:21 *** Cheery [i=Henri@a81-197-22-81.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has joined #openttd 06:56:20 *** jnmbk_ [n=jnmbk@85.101.209.68] has joined #openttd 06:56:33 *** tokai [n=tokai@p54B82C1E.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #openttd 06:56:54 *** jnmbk_ [n=jnmbk@85.101.209.68] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 06:57:09 <Celestar> Tron: RFC? 06:57:12 *** jnmbk [n=jnmbk@85.101.209.68] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 06:59:32 <Tron> probably yes, but not now 07:04:03 <Celestar> explain 07:04:34 <Celestar> *munch* 07:18:23 <Celestar> *munch* 07:20:46 *** jnmbk [n=jnmbk@88.240.59.109] has joined #openttd 07:25:57 *** Nubian [n=nubian@mrkvovy.kokotko.sk] has joined #openttd 07:27:00 <CIA-3> peter1138 * r4616 /trunk/newgrf_spritegroup.c: - NewGRF: when evaluating a variable adjustment, give our value the correct type after rather than before it has been adjusted. 07:28:00 *** angerman [n=angerman@e181120118.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #openttd 07:31:03 <KUDr> [08:37:12] <Tron> KUDr: your last commit seems incomplete. there are at fource places in tunnelbridge_cmd.c which change the tracks (build/remove bridge/tunnel), but you only added one callback <-- thanks, i will look at it again 07:32:05 <Celestar> KUDr: I've done some more performance testing. 07:32:21 <KUDr> and results? 07:32:38 <Celestar> trains pose no problem in basically any situation, will switch to RVs next, and then ships 07:32:58 <KUDr> ships are slow 07:33:04 <Celestar> and I'm still trying to find the goddamn owner leak. 07:33:15 <KUDr> you know - the A* as it is is not the best algo 07:33:27 <KUDr> aha 07:33:30 <Celestar> KUDr: if you limit the maximum distance to whatever OPF had, how's the performance then? 07:33:44 <KUDr> in the tracks under AI removed bridge? 07:33:48 <Celestar> KUDr: yes. 07:34:00 <Celestar> the AI calls the normal CMD_REMOVE_BRIDGE 07:34:19 <KUDr> I dunno how OPF has it 07:34:30 <Celestar> so I guess 142 cannot be solved for 0.4.8. and 109 will be kinda difficult :S 07:35:29 <Tron> if the pathfinder does the necessary magic GetTileTrackStatus() could just return 0 for rail depots 07:36:07 <Celestar> yeah. 07:36:10 <Celestar> I know. 07:36:15 <peter1138> like for road stops? 07:36:16 <Celestar> I just don't like the "magic" part (= 07:36:30 <Tron> like road stops, road depots, yes 07:36:56 <Tron> the track status simply has no notion for "dead end", that's the problem 07:37:17 * peter1138 nods 07:38:05 <KUDr> hmm 07:38:17 <KUDr> in the YAPF i did it opposite way 07:38:34 <Celestar> KUDr: opposite? 07:38:37 <KUDr> i added tracks into road depots and stops 07:38:48 <Tron> this leads to all kinds of problems 07:38:49 <KUDr> to have it the same as rail 07:38:55 <KUDr> and less magic in YAPF 07:38:59 <Tron> like towns building roads at the back side of road stops 07:39:23 <KUDr> hmm 07:39:55 <Celestar> Tron: KUDr: maybe a proper solution would be some kind of "dead end" marker? 07:39:58 <KUDr> but navigating vehicle somewhere, where are no tracks also causes problems 07:39:58 <TSC> KUDr: I think you've made a tiny mistake in line 74 of yapf_costcache.hpp 07:40:11 <TSC> There's a backtick at the start of the line 07:40:55 <Tron> Celestar: is there a savegame for the ai bridge problem? 07:41:04 <KUDr> TSC: this line?: 07:41:05 <KUDr> if (pC != NULL && last_rail_change_counter != Cache::s_rail_change_counter) { 07:41:36 <TSC> Yes 07:41:38 <Celestar> Tron: yes. but there it already happened. 07:41:47 <TSC> There's a ` at the start of it in SVN 07:41:52 <Celestar> http://bugs.openttd.org/task/55 <= Tron this savegame. 07:42:08 <Tron> ^M 07:42:09 <Tron> // delete the cache sometimes...^M 07:42:09 <Tron> ` if (pC != NULL && last_rail_change_counter != Cache::s_rail_change_counter) 07:42:09 <Tron> {^M 07:42:13 <KUDr> TSC: thanks, i see 07:42:14 <Tron> not to mention the CRs 07:42:25 <Celestar> CRs? I don't have any? 07:42:41 <KUDr> EOL flag? 07:42:55 <Tron> %svn pl yapf_costcache.hpp 07:42:56 <Tron> % 07:43:17 <KUDr> what is pl? 07:43:32 <Tron> proplist 07:43:44 <Celestar> right it isses for some. 07:43:50 <KUDr> i will repair it 07:43:51 <Celestar> ok who adds the stuff? 07:44:01 <Celestar> KUDr: you miss the keywords also it seems 07:44:18 <KUDr> hmm 07:44:41 <Celestar> add a line "/* $Id$ */" as the first line of each source file and set property svn:keywords to "Id" :) 07:45:15 <KUDr> will try 07:45:16 *** MeusH [n=MeusH@host-ip18-138.crowley.pl] has joined #openttd 07:45:25 <Celestar> the amount of crap on German's TV is unbelievable. 07:45:45 <MeusH> hi] 07:45:48 <Celestar> lo 07:47:10 <Celestar> BAH all these accessor functions make debugging really difficult 07:47:29 <Tron> huh? 07:47:44 <Celestar> because the debugger jumps into about 150 functions in a single line :P 07:48:02 <Tron> DEBUG=2 07:48:09 <Tron> -> -fno-inline 07:48:16 <MeusH> Celestar: not only on German's TV. The worst things in Polish TV are TV shopping and stupid games (call us first and you may win 800$* {SMALLFONT}Dial price 3$ per minute) 07:48:34 <Celestar> yeah 07:48:36 <Celestar> Tron: I know. 07:48:41 <MeusH> or "call us and solve the equation" which is totally dumb 07:48:45 <Celestar> but I'd like to swap debug levels 2 and 3. 07:48:52 <MeusH> like 3x = 6+x 07:48:54 <Tron> huh? 07:49:41 <Celestar> Tron: we have those game shows as well. 07:49:43 <Celestar> ^^ 07:49:57 *** sw4y [n=sw4y@snat2.arachne.czfree.net] has joined #openttd 07:50:06 <Tron> Celestar: the "huh?" was a reply to your last line 07:51:06 <Celestar> Tron: so that you can have a binary without optimized-out values, but still inline functions. 07:51:36 <Tron> and the use of that would be? 07:51:50 <Celestar> Tron: the "newtiletypes.diff" fixes some minor problems in the bridge branch as well. 07:52:01 <Tron> `-fno-inline' 07:52:01 <Tron> Don't pay attention to the `inline' keyword. Normally this option 07:52:01 <Tron> is used to keep the compiler from expanding any functions inline. 07:52:01 <Tron> Note that if you are not optimizing, no functions can be expanded 07:52:01 <Tron> inline. 07:52:04 <Tron> last sentence 07:52:12 <Celestar> Tron: easy, somehow my gdb cannot access optimized-out variables. 07:52:21 <Celestar> hm 07:52:27 <Celestar> good point. 07:52:33 <Tron> of course it cannot 07:52:54 <Celestar> you didn't get the british humour in the last sentence did you? :) 07:52:56 <Tron> if a value only lived in a register, but that register is already overwritten with another value... 07:53:11 *** ^Cartman^ [n=Eric_Car@ti100710a081-2454.bb.online.no] has quit ["Bunchie!"] 07:53:12 *** ^Cartman^ [n=Eric_Car@ti100710a081-2454.bb.online.no] has joined #openttd 07:53:47 <Tron> use DEBUG=3 if you really need every bit of information 07:54:06 * Celestar resumes working on newtiletypes. 07:54:08 <Tron> then gcc spills every value etc. 07:54:13 <Celestar> yeah 07:58:02 <Tron> hm 07:58:10 <Tron> an AI just removed a bridge over my rail 07:58:14 <Tron> i still own that rail 07:59:45 <Tron> without an exact revision number i cannot tell if there _was_ a bug 08:01:05 <Celestar> Tron: yeah I figured that much. :( 08:01:11 <Celestar> I've spent hours on that bug 08:01:45 <Tron> Upper Sinnington is strange, too 08:01:48 <Tron> it has no signals 08:02:36 <Celestar> wee! newtiletypes now load old savegames. 08:04:06 * Celestar activates 7 AIs and puts maximum game speed. 08:04:56 *** Morlark [n=Sean@82-71-32-147.dsl.in-addr.zen.co.uk] has joined #openttd 08:05:19 <Celestar> ROFLMAO 08:05:28 <Celestar> Tron: flexible tiles under bridge does NOT prevent the AI from being stupid :P 08:05:40 <Tron> ? 08:06:28 *** Azio [n=Azio@host86-142-58-77.range86-142.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 08:07:19 <Celestar> http://www.fvfischer.de/ai_bridge.png 08:07:34 <Celestar> hilarious (= 08:08:05 <peter1138> lol 08:09:01 <KUDr> nice 08:09:03 <Celestar> I wonder whether the AI just builds TOTALLY randomly or whether ther is some logic behind it (= 08:09:24 <Tron> something is very strange with that savegame anyway 08:09:31 <Celestar> BANG 08:09:40 <Celestar> Error: !Disconnecting train 08:09:44 <Celestar> I hate that message. 08:10:23 <Tron> this happens when a train reverses on a bridge 08:11:11 <Celestar> well I didn't reverse. 08:12:41 <Celestar> very weird. 08:12:51 <Celestar> when I stop the train for one gameday it doesn't happen :o 08:13:43 <Tron> save please 08:14:11 <Tron> the AI problem must be in r3610 or before according to the time stamp of the bug report 08:14:55 <Celestar> Tron: I can give you a savegame but it's with my diff ... 08:15:08 <Celestar> the train tries to reserve at the end of a bridge for no apparent reason. 08:15:18 <Tron> screenshot please 08:15:23 <Celestar> ok. 08:15:25 <Celestar> standby 08:17:44 <Celestar> http://www.fvfischer.de/prob.tgz <= it's all there, screeny, diff, savegame. 08:18:25 <peter1138> 90° bends? 08:18:35 <Celestar> peter1138: yes? 08:18:43 <Celestar> it's the AI (= 08:18:57 <peter1138> are they disabled? 08:19:09 <CIA-3> KUDr * r4617 /branch/yapf/ (33 files in 3 dirs): 08:19:09 <CIA-3> [YAPF] Fix: flags (EOL=Native, Keyw.=Id) set 08:19:09 <CIA-3> Fix: makefile: missing -lrt in unittest 08:19:22 <Celestar> no, and the problem doesn't appear anywhere near a 90° bends. 08:19:36 <Celestar> KUDr: I _hope_ you set svn:eol-style to native 08:19:40 <Tron> explain the screenshot 08:19:46 <Celestar> it must be exact. also caps. 08:20:03 <KUDr> Celestar: EOL=Native 08:20:10 <Celestar> KUDr: baaaaad. (= 08:20:14 <Tron> that's totally wrong 08:20:19 <KUDr> hmm 08:20:23 <Tron> it must be svn:eol-style native 08:20:34 <Tron> just like for every other file 08:20:48 <Celestar> Tron: the train is about to enter a bridge. when it tries to leave the bridge, it can't (GTTS problem probably) and reverses. you know what follows next. 08:20:50 <KUDr> it IS like for every other file 08:20:57 <peter1138> Property svn:keywords set to Id 08:21:00 <peter1138> that's ok 08:21:06 <peter1138> Property svn:eol-style set to native 08:21:08 <KUDr> i dunno property name 08:21:09 <peter1138> that's ok 08:21:16 <KUDr> I am mouse clicking user 08:21:21 <peter1138> i guess you're using some lame gui tool ;p 08:21:22 <Celestar> it's ok. 08:21:30 <KUDr> yeah 08:21:34 <Celestar> tortoisesvn seems strange (= 08:21:46 <peter1138> you didn't set eol-style on every file, though 08:21:50 <KUDr> it is SmartSVN 08:21:54 <Celestar> oh (= 08:21:57 <Tron> Celestar: leaving the bridge or entering the ramp tile? 08:21:59 <Celestar> peter1138: which file is missing? 08:22:03 <peter1138> loads 08:22:13 <peter1138> hmm, unless they were there anyway 08:22:21 <KUDr> <peter1138> you didn't set eol-style on every file, though <-- on sources only 08:22:27 <Celestar> Tron: leaving the ramp actually. 08:22:31 <KUDr> are 08:22:43 <KUDr> there where there for some files 08:22:44 <KUDr> yes 08:22:47 <Tron> Celestar: so leaving the ramp tile and entering the first normal rail piece? 08:22:51 <Celestar> Tron: yes. 08:23:09 <Celestar> Tron: but if I stop the train for a couple of days, it works. <= I have no logical explanation for that. 08:23:14 * peter1138 off 08:23:33 <Celestar> unless there is some serious serious bug. 08:24:33 <KUDr> Celestar: hunting that owner leak? 08:24:43 <Celestar> KUDr: not at the moment. hunting down a bridge bug. 08:24:50 <Tron> # 08:24:51 <Tron> branch/yapf/openttd.dsp 08:24:51 <Tron> * Property svn:eol-style changed from native to CRLF 08:24:53 <Tron> *BZZZT* 08:24:54 <Tron> wrong 08:25:04 <Tron> native was perfectly correct 08:25:17 <Celestar> native is mostly perfectly correct. 08:25:20 <KUDr> Tron: Native was only problem 08:25:26 <Celestar> why? 08:25:30 <Celestar> native is CRLF on windows. 08:25:34 <KUDr> VC6 adds many blanks at the end 08:25:34 <Celestar> LF on *nix 08:25:44 <KUDr> and i must correct it manually always 08:25:51 <KUDr> it is anoying 08:26:03 <Celestar> you cannot commit trailing whitespace ... 08:26:10 <KUDr> why? 08:26:18 <Celestar> because it's annoying (= 08:26:21 <KUDr> if it is added by stupid program? 08:26:36 <KUDr> .dsp is NOT edited manually 08:26:39 <Celestar> actually svn commit should block any attempt to do so. 08:26:41 <KUDr> so why Native? 08:26:52 <Celestar> well, for the .dsp I don't really care (= 08:26:57 <KUDr> then it is wrong 08:27:00 <Tron> because it IS edited manually 08:27:05 <KUDr> i can't repair VC6 08:27:20 <Celestar> Tron: when? 08:27:27 <KUDr> so then we must remove the blanks checking 08:27:36 <Tron> adding new files without VS 08:27:40 <Celestar> I don't add anything to VC6 even if I add a file. 08:27:45 <Celestar> someone else has to do it. 08:28:02 <KUDr> yes and can also test it 08:28:08 <Celestar> vici@rivendell:[/home/vici/openttd/branch/bridge]> svn pg svn:eol-stype openttd.dsp 08:28:11 <Celestar> vici@rivendell:[/home/vici/openttd/branch/bridge]> 08:28:22 <Tron> KUDr: nobody has mentioned this issue before and the trailing whitespace check is in place for >1 year, so i suspect the problem is on your side 08:28:38 <Celestar> er typo 08:28:50 <Tron> %svn pg svn:eol-style openttd.dsp 08:28:50 <Tron> native 08:28:56 <KUDr> At home and also at work? I have last SP for VC6 08:29:00 *** Nubian [n=nubian@mrkvovy.kokotko.sk] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 08:29:03 <KUDr> what more can I do? 08:29:16 <Celestar> lets see 08:29:42 <Celestar> there is no trailing whitespace in openttd.dsp in trunk. 08:29:55 <KUDr> i removed it always 08:30:04 <KUDr> manually 08:30:11 <KUDr> at least 10x 08:30:15 <Celestar> whoa 08:30:17 <KUDr> it is crazy 08:30:27 * Celestar wonders whether it is time to finally drop VC6 support. 08:30:33 <Celestar> (= 08:30:46 <Celestar> this good-for-nothing IDE causes nothing but trouble.... 08:30:53 <KUDr> heh good idea for me, but not for many others i guess 08:31:20 <Celestar> which dev uses VC6? 08:31:44 <KUDr> i would just let it != Native so blanks are not checked and no problems occur 08:31:55 <KUDr> many users 08:32:09 <KUDr> no dev i guess 08:32:33 <KUDr> VC6 has also very bad compiler 08:32:43 <Celestar> yeah 08:32:50 <KUDr> many things i cannot do in C++ 08:33:08 <KUDr> it is far from the C++ compliance 08:33:20 <Celestar> is there any C++ compiler that adheres to the standard on this planet? 08:33:25 <Celestar> hm .. 08:33:31 <Celestar> f*ck VC6 support. 08:33:42 <KUDr> others are much more close to it 08:33:51 <Celestar> I guess. 08:34:17 <KUDr> I would vote for dropping it 08:34:21 <Celestar> me too. 08:34:24 *** angerman_ [n=angerman@e181124250.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #openttd 08:34:48 <Celestar> I've spent soo much time solving VC6 problems, it's not worth that. 08:34:50 <KUDr> who has only VC6, he can install MinGW 08:34:57 <KUDr> so there is a solution 08:34:57 <Celestar> and MinGW is free. 08:35:02 <KUDr> yes 08:35:23 <Celestar> Tron, peter1138 and Darkvater will have to agree 08:35:32 <KUDr> so we don't close door for such users 08:37:05 <Celestar> also I'd like to have then consent of other people who do lots of development at the present time. 08:37:23 <Celestar> like Belugas_Gone and Rubidium 08:42:02 <Celestar> KUDr: will YAPF be any better/faster/cleaner without VC6 support? 08:42:31 <KUDr> not faster, just simpler a bit 08:42:38 <KUDr> sources 08:42:43 <Celestar> well still ;) 08:43:01 <KUDr> it is now too compicated 08:43:14 <Celestar> and that's because of VC6? 08:43:24 <KUDr> nested templates up to level 6 of recursion 08:43:30 <KUDr> it is not nice 08:43:35 <KUDr> yes 08:43:55 <KUDr> VC6 doesn't know template as template argument 08:44:06 *** angerman [n=angerman@e181120118.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Nick collision from services.] 08:44:09 <KUDr> so it is more complicated 08:44:14 *** angerman_ is now known as angerman 08:44:14 <Celestar> I see. 08:44:37 <KUDr> also many methods must be public 08:44:47 <KUDr> even they should not be 08:44:54 <Vornicus> okay. I've heard of four-star programming, and I've seen three-star programming, and five-star programming is The Stuff Of Legends... but six-angle-bracket programming? Cripes and cookiedough. 08:45:02 <KUDr> and many such minor things 08:45:04 <Celestar> Vornicus: er what? 08:45:40 <Celestar> I guess Tron and Darkvater care crap about VC is general. 08:45:40 <KUDr> also const static member initialization in class body is not possible 08:46:02 <KUDr> Darkvater uses VC8 08:46:02 <Celestar> and also peter1138'll prolly give a damn 08:46:10 <KUDr> and it is very good compiler 08:46:22 <Celestar> it's a decent compiler 08:46:32 <Vornicus> often the complexity of C code is measured in how many times you can dereference a pointer before getting to something other than a pointer. 08:46:39 <KUDr> better than GCC in some aspects 08:46:41 <Celestar> Vornicus: trice :) 08:46:48 <Celestar> gcc has some problems here and there. 08:46:52 <Celestar> but every compiler has. 08:46:55 <Celestar> icc has too. 08:46:58 <KUDr> minor problems 08:47:05 <Vornicus> So if you can dereference a pointer three times, it's three-star code. 08:47:07 <Celestar> I use icc sometimes for openttd. 08:47:10 <KUDr> it doesn't hurt 08:47:18 <Celestar> Vornicus: so openttd is 3 star (= 08:47:25 <KUDr> icc == intel? 08:47:46 <Celestar> Vornicus: and all because of me :P 08:47:48 <Celestar> KUDr: yes. 08:47:51 <Vornicus> The complexity of templated C++ code can be measured by the nesting of angle brackets. 08:48:15 <Celestar> I'm not sure complexity is good (= 08:48:26 <Vornicus> I believe that without modifications, the STL is either 2 or 3-angle-bracket code. 08:48:33 <KUDr> Vornicus: yes - but is now worse than it should be in the YAPF because of VC6 08:48:36 <Celestar> static void FindRoadStationSpot(bool truck_station, Station* st, RoadStop*** currstop, RoadStop** prev) 08:49:07 * Vornicus eyes that 08:49:15 <Vornicus> madness 08:49:27 <Celestar> Vornicus: I already did a 5-star pointer once, but meanwhile I've reduced it to something sane. 08:49:40 <Celestar> 5-dimensional array. 08:50:00 <Vornicus> I don't know if arrays count. :P 08:50:19 <Celestar> ^^ 08:50:20 <Celestar> not really. 08:50:35 <KUDr> many nested templates reduce readability 08:50:48 <KUDr> and i would like to keep YAPF simpler 08:50:54 <Celestar> Vornicus: if you have any better idea for that triple-pointer, go ahead (= 08:51:06 <Vornicus> Three-star programming is just fine. 08:51:36 <Vornicus> I tend to avoid it, personally, but I rarely code in straight C 08:51:59 <Celestar> the entire function is kinda magic. any C-newbie would run straight away. 08:54:21 <Celestar> it's like a 12 line function which you have to read through several times to understand what it does. 08:55:46 <Vornicus> Where is it, I'd like to test my skill. :) 08:56:26 <Celestar> station_cmd.c 08:57:29 * Vornicus fiddles 08:57:48 <Vornicus> Okay. st, it appears, is the station to find a parking space at? 08:58:27 <Celestar> nah.. 08:58:32 <Celestar> it's used when building a stop. 08:58:46 <Vornicus> ohhh 08:58:47 <Vornicus> okay. 08:58:50 *** YoG [n=zevele@bzq-88-154-112-44.red.bezeqint.net] has joined #openttd 08:59:41 * Vornicus ....tries to reinterpret this. 08:59:59 <Celestar> CmdBuildRoadStop <= start here. 09:00:03 <Celestar> it then becomes clear 09:00:19 <Vornicus> gah 09:02:23 <Vornicus> Oh, I see what it's doing. 09:02:58 <Vornicus> ...I think 09:05:58 *** sw4y [n=sw4y@snat2.arachne.czfree.net] has quit ["Odletam do paralelniho vesmiru..."] 09:06:55 <Vornicus> you're iterating over the stops list to find the end of it, and then when the function is done you're pointing at the end so you can just put the stuff there. 09:07:03 <Vornicus> Currstop and Prev are outputs. 09:08:37 <Vornicus> Did I get it? 09:09:24 *** jong [n=jong@flipflip.student.utwente.nl] has joined #openttd 09:09:40 <Celestar> yeah 09:09:42 *** CobraA1 [n=Jeremiah@cpe-024-088-000-194.sc.res.rr.com] has joined #openttd 09:10:07 <Vornicus> yey 09:10:13 <Celestar> I'm not yet sure why I needed all that nexting tho :P 09:11:52 <Vornicus> ...god, it's been a while since I dealt with that stuff 09:11:56 <Celestar> nesting. 09:12:03 * Celestar goes documenting that entire crap 09:12:14 *** jong [n=jong@flipflip.student.utwente.nl] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 09:12:39 *** jong [n=jong@flipflip.student.utwente.nl] has joined #openttd 09:20:21 <Celestar> BAH HELP 09:21:44 <Vornicus> meep? 09:22:42 *** shintah [i=bebble@bebble.olf.sgsnet.se] has joined #openttd 09:22:43 *** Born_Acorn [n=bornacor@AC8D6533.ipt.aol.com] has joined #openttd 09:23:22 <Celestar> I don't get that function anymore :P 09:23:26 <Celestar> not the details (= 09:24:13 <Vornicus> The number of stars confuses me. 09:25:12 <Celestar> *currstop = &(**currstop)->next; 09:25:15 <Celestar> this is just lovely. (= 09:25:57 <Vornicus> ...you guys do some evil shit with pointers. I think I'll leave it at that 09:26:26 <Celestar> hehe (= 09:27:01 <Celestar> a colleague recently said "anything that can be done with pointers can be done without pointers as well". 09:27:10 <Celestar> I wonder how :P 09:29:12 <CIA-3> KUDr * r4618 /branch/yapf/tunnelbridge_cmd.c: [YAPF] Fix: missing 'track layout changed' notifications when building/destroying tunnel/bridge (thanks Tron) 09:29:29 *** Osai^2 [n=Osai@p54B37CA3.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 09:30:21 <Vornicus> References, probably 09:31:02 <Vornicus> Personally I'd have thrown out all sorts of this crap and made a relatively uniform linked list system a ways back, so you don't have to do it yourself all the damn time. 09:31:39 <KUDr> STL 09:31:50 *** Torrasque [n=jerome@241.150.186.195.cust.bluewin.ch] has joined #openttd 09:33:32 <Vornicus> I saw that coming 09:35:20 <Celestar> ^^ 09:35:34 <Celestar> KUDr: I somehow believe that STL might help in this specific problem 09:36:06 <Vornicus> But yeah. One of the advantages of STL is that you can make a thing that knows how to deal with its own complexities 09:36:15 <KUDr> for all containers it can help 09:36:23 <Vornicus> C++ rater 09:36:25 <KUDr> except hash_map i guess 09:36:39 <Vornicus> STL is just frightening sometimes 09:36:49 <KUDr> as it is not part of all distributions 09:37:19 <KUDr> Vornicus: you must use it carefully 09:37:47 *** Sacro [n=Sacro@adsl-83-100-181-201.karoo.KCOM.COM] has joined #openttd 09:38:25 <Sacro> morning all 09:38:44 <KUDr> Sacro: same to you 09:38:58 <Celestar> morning Sacro 09:39:10 <Celestar> we still haven't got any further with the dropping discussion 09:39:38 <Sacro> signals? 09:39:48 <KUDr> dropping VC6? 09:39:57 <Sacro> oh right, didnt hear about that discussion 09:40:19 <KUDr> Sacro: what compiler do you use? 09:40:26 <Sacro> KUDr: cygwin 09:40:33 <KUDr> then ok 09:40:34 <Sacro> or gcc under linux 09:40:56 <KUDr> need to hear from somebody using VC6 09:41:04 <Sacro> i did use it for a while 09:41:25 <KUDr> if it will hurt much to remove VC6 support 09:41:43 <Celestar> what is RichK using? 09:43:08 <Tron> KUDr: is there any case where that callback is not used with UpdateSingalsOnSegment()/SetSignalsOnBothDirs()? (or the other way round: these functions without the callback) 09:43:20 *** dp__ [n=dp@p54B2E09D.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 09:43:21 <Sacro> Celestar: no idea 09:43:50 *** Brianetta [n=brian@82-39-48-88.cable.ubr03.benw.blueyonder.co.uk] has joined #openttd 09:43:54 <Celestar> Tron: what's your opinion on VC6 ? 09:44:04 <Tron> i don't care about it 09:44:17 <Celestar> ok guys I needa go in 2 minutes, so please try to decide whether to drop VC6. 09:44:19 <Celestar> Tron: so entered. 09:44:20 <Celestar> ;) 09:44:53 <Celestar> so cu 09:45:13 <Sacro> remove the VC6 only files, see how many complain 09:46:27 <Brianetta> Mornining! 09:47:00 <KUDr> Sacro: i need to do lot of code cleanup in YAPF and it can be done much better if i don't need to be VC6 compiler compliant 09:47:41 <Sacro> Brianetta: morning 09:47:50 <KUDr> Brianetta: gm 09:47:50 <CIA-3> celestar * r4619 /trunk/station_cmd.c: 09:47:50 <CIA-3> -Codechange: Rename FindRoadStationSpot into FindRoadStopSpot and try to document it a little. 09:47:50 <CIA-3> if anyone comes up with an idea on how to simplify this thing a bit, I'd be grateful 09:47:53 <Sacro> KUDr: hmmmm 09:48:04 *** Osai^2 is now known as Osai 09:48:15 *** Nubian [n=nubian@mrkvovy.kokotko.sk] has joined #openttd 09:58:41 *** Scia [n=sciapode@AveloN.xs4all.nl] has joined #openttd 10:01:12 *** dp-- [n=dp@p54B2E62B.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 10:01:12 *** dp__ is now known as dp-- 10:02:11 *** joed__ [n=James@CPE-143-238-5-54.vic.bigpond.net.au] has joined #openttd 10:07:34 *** YoG [n=zevele@bzq-88-154-112-44.red.bezeqint.net] has quit [] 10:13:13 *** Mukke [n=Mukke@x1-6-00-13-8f-3d-00-a9.k146.webspeed.dk] has joined #openttd 10:15:44 <MeusH> I think dropping VC6 supports is allright, because VC6 doesn't load .dsp files (or did someone fix that?) 10:15:52 <MeusH> there are many other alternatives 10:16:01 <MeusH> free (read: legal) 10:16:29 <KUDr> VC6 doesn't load .dsp files? How can i reproduce this? 10:16:49 <MeusH> load openttd.dsw, it will crash when auto loading openttd.dsp 10:17:11 <KUDr> try it from /branch/yapf 10:17:18 <MeusH> It was some time ago, just when LKRaider wrote his tutorial on how to set up MinGW 10:17:35 <MeusH> okay KUDr, I'll try it 10:17:41 <KUDr> thanks 10:17:59 <KUDr> i am wondering why i didn't notice that problem 10:18:08 <MeusH> however, I'm using MinGW and metapad right now. And here is my question, does anyone have idea on a nice editor with good search (search in files) function, possible syntax highlight? 10:19:56 <KUDr> MeusH: for me it is not big issue to support VC6 project, but i have most issues with its compiler - if anyone can integrate VC6 IDE with free VC8 command line compiler, it would be great 10:23:05 *** joed_ [n=James@CPE-203-51-167-192.vic.bigpond.net.au] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 10:23:33 *** black_Nightmare [n=Husky_dr@modemcable065.248-200-24.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #openttd 10:23:34 <black_Nightmare> hey 10:24:01 <Celestar> hey ho 10:24:16 <Celestar> damnit I cannot find my bridge bug. 10:24:22 <black_Nightmare> what you up to now? 10:24:36 <MeusH> KUDr: doesn't work 10:24:37 <black_Nightmare> me just got up a while ago...loading the nightly build openttd into brianetta's server again :p 10:25:03 <KUDr> MeusH: do you have SP5 installed on top of VC6? 10:25:15 <MeusH> I don't know if it is well configured, but I did it as said on the wiki, and on my previous system it worked just fine 10:25:19 <MeusH> what's SP5? 10:25:27 <Triffid_Hunter> service pack 10:25:28 <Celestar> weird weird 10:26:24 <KUDr> webfreakz uses VC6 too and afaik it works for him too 10:27:10 *** Jenkz [n=nobody@80-192-44-21.cable.ubr05.dund.blueyonder.co.uk] has joined #openttd 10:27:26 <MeusH> Service pack for VC6, you mean? 10:27:44 <MeusH> I've recently uninstalled WinXP SP2 because it's the biggest crap I've ever seen 10:27:49 <MeusH> I messed with my internet connection 10:28:02 <hylje> what did you expect 10:28:17 <hylje> its security the microsoft way -- if you cant get it work, you cannot get it 0WNED 10:29:27 <Celestar> this bug is weird. 10:29:33 <KUDr> MeusH: yes VC6 SP5 10:29:46 <Celestar> when the train goes over the brige in april, it crashes, if it goes over the bridge in may, it works. 10:30:01 <hylje> :D 10:30:02 <KUDr> heh 10:30:04 <MeusH> fool's day :D 10:30:19 <MeusH> KUDr: I'll take a look at it, but not right now. I'm sorry I g2g 10:30:19 <Celestar> so either I'm stupid or something weird happens on monthly roll-over. 10:30:22 <MeusH> cleaning and stuff 10:30:36 <KUDr> MeusH: it is OK 10:30:40 *** MeusH is now known as MeusH[away] 10:30:53 <Celestar> bah we should enumify the response from VehicleEnterTile 10:34:28 *** BJH [n=chatzill@e176127142.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #openttd 10:38:45 <Celestar> ARGH 10:41:02 <Tron> hmhm 10:41:10 <Tron> Celestar: any insights in your bridge problem? 10:43:53 <Celestar> Tron: yes. (see above about the months) 10:45:33 <Tron> the train even returns at different point if you stop it for different amounts of time 10:47:15 <Celestar> bah we need some more debugging functions in console 10:47:29 <Celestar> like "print vehicle 1701" 10:49:22 <Celestar> how do I set a watchpoint? 10:50:43 <Celestar> ah 10:50:52 <Celestar> er ... 10:51:32 <Sacro> can someone please look at the bug when trying to autoreplace elwagons 10:51:47 <Celestar> Tron: found reason. 10:52:06 <Celestar> pathfinder cannot seem to find path and therefore tries to reverse the train direction 10:52:52 <Celestar> WEE 10:52:54 <Celestar> gdb segfaulted 10:53:07 <Tron> and why doesn't it find a path? 10:53:15 <Tron> the train heads for the depot directly ahead of it 10:53:27 <Celestar> dunno 10:53:32 <Celestar> problem goes away with NPF 10:54:00 <Tron> the question is: does your change cause the problem? 10:54:29 <Celestar> that I don't know yet 10:54:37 <Celestar> but I will investigate 10:55:04 * Celestar starts another game with vanilla branch 10:55:11 *** Angst [n=Angst@p54946FC2.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 10:55:33 <Celestar> Tron: but I guess it is the change :) 10:55:43 <Celestar> my left ball tells me it is 10:57:31 <Celestar> hm .. 10:57:35 <Tron> btw: i checked r3610, i can't find a reason for the AI bridge problem there either 10:57:39 <Celestar> getting other problems with vanilla. 10:57:50 <Tron> (r3610 is the same day as the problem was reported 10:57:52 <Tron> ) 10:57:55 <Celestar> yes 10:58:15 <Celestar> the AI never sets the tile owner directly from what I can tell 10:59:05 <Tron> Rubidium: . 11:00:37 <Celestar> Tron: right when the train is on the bridgehead tile, the vehicle orders seem to have changed for some reason 11:03:47 <Tron> fascinating 11:05:41 <Celestar> which "seems" to be normal. 11:05:55 <Celestar> but the pathfinder cannot find the path to the station 3 tiles away. :S 11:13:26 <Celestar> Tron: problem (hopefully) solved :) 11:13:32 <Celestar> investigating further 11:16:31 <Celestar> I had improper modifications of bridge_map.c 11:20:34 <Celestar> do the AIs ever manage to make money? 11:21:26 <Xaroth> hardly 11:21:42 <Xaroth> give em a full map where there's millions of possibilities and they still go bankrupt.. 11:22:35 *** Hackykid [n=Hackykid@ip5655e868.adsl-surfen.hetnet.nl] has joined #openttd 11:23:03 <Celestar> Hackykid: :o 11:23:12 <Celestar> *waves* 11:23:17 <Hackykid> lies! 11:23:20 <Hackykid> heya :-p 11:23:33 <Celestar> how's life been treating ya? 11:23:40 <black_Nightmare> xaroth..I barely ever used the ai at all 11:23:41 <black_Nightmare> :p 11:23:47 <Celestar> the AI is great. 11:23:54 <Celestar> for testing all the weird track combos one can buil.d 11:24:19 <Hackykid> oh i'm doing ok :-) 11:25:57 <Xaroth> black_Nightmare: True, but -if- you use it.. they should at least be some kind of an opponent :P 11:26:29 <Celestar> Hackykid: whatcha been up to lately? 11:27:12 <Hackykid> mostly with my studies, an trying to get a job now 11:27:24 <Celestar> hows success? 11:28:41 <Hackykid> studies are going well, and i might have a job by next week 11:28:59 <Hackykid> i need moneys lol :-p 11:29:30 <Hackykid> so, what have you been up to? 11:30:57 <Tron> <Tron> KUDr: is there any case where that callback is not used with UpdateSingalsOnSegment()/SetSignalsOnBothDirs()? (or the other way round: these functions without the callback) 11:31:29 <Celestar> Hackykid: much work 11:31:33 <Celestar> Hackykid: some coding (= 11:31:37 <KUDr> Tron: guess not 11:31:54 <KUDr> wanna join 'em? 11:32:11 <Tron> sounds reasonable 11:32:15 <Celestar> been playing with bridges, Hackykid (= 11:32:18 <KUDr> yes 11:32:28 <Hackykid> Celestar: what about bridges? 11:32:34 <KUDr> but different cases -> different functions and args 11:33:00 <KUDr> Tron: i didn't know how to deal with it 11:33:06 <Celestar> Hackykid: http://www.fvfischer.de/ai_bridge.png 11:33:14 <Celestar> me->lunch 11:33:28 *** Jango [n=kvirc@puritan.demon.co.uk] has joined #openttd 11:33:44 <Hackykid> ah 11:34:11 <Celestar> ok 11:34:15 <Celestar> cu laters. 11:34:20 <KUDr> cu 11:34:30 <Jango> Celestar: did you get my pm yesterday 11:34:57 <Celestar> Jango: nope due to a network crash 11:35:08 <Jango> ok 11:35:10 <Celestar> Tron: we MUST enable crossing bridges, the AI will be even better with that (= 11:35:29 <Jango> well, it was just a few suggestions on signals 11:35:30 <Tron> ... 11:35:36 <KUDr> Celestar: even more stupid? 11:36:15 <Celestar> yes. 11:36:27 <Celestar> the AI managed to crash two of its trains :o 11:36:27 <Tron> well, 2 perpendicular crossing bridges is technically possible without needing any more storage, but graphics wise... 11:36:35 <Tron> huh? 11:36:37 <Celestar> Tron: I'll draw something up 11:36:39 <Tron> that shouldn't be possible 11:37:02 <Xaroth> Celestar: That track looks odd :P 11:37:05 <Xaroth> AI or summat? :P 11:37:05 <Jango> has someone been working on the AI? 11:37:07 <Tron> the AI never uses the command to force a train through a red signal 11:37:08 <CIA-3> KUDr * r4620 /branch/yapf/ (10 files in 2 dirs): [YAPF] Code cleanup: some classes moved to their own files 11:37:50 <Celestar> Tron: I know. 11:37:59 <Celestar> http://www.fvfischer.de/crash.png 11:38:21 <Tron> how did that happen? 11:38:37 <Xaroth> lol 11:38:37 <Celestar> Tron: the train left the depot. 11:38:47 <Tron> is this your changed version? 11:38:50 <Celestar> yeah. 11:38:51 <Celestar> (= 11:38:56 <Celestar> more investigation. 11:38:57 <Tron> maybe signal updating problems 11:39:10 <Celestar> but before the train left, the signals pointing into the block were red 11:40:18 <Hackykid> heh, quite a few new branches i see :-) 11:40:37 <Celestar> yeah 11:40:38 <Celestar> back later 11:40:46 <Celestar> (much later, maybe tomorrow) 11:40:51 <Celestar> Tron: want diff and savegame or not? 11:41:02 <Jango> welcome back hackykid 11:41:17 <Tron> Celestar: no, atm i'm investigating at #55 11:42:12 <Tron> Celestar: but slowly i'm coming to the conclusion to classify it as random disturbance of the force 11:42:16 <Hackykid> heya Jango 11:42:23 <Celestar> ok 11:42:41 <Celestar> http://www.fvfischer.de/probs2.tgz anyway 11:42:44 <Celestar> cu 11:54:08 *** Tobin [n=Tobin@c211-28-197-129.eburwd7.vic.optusnet.com.au] has joined #openttd 11:55:57 *** ledow [n=ledow@jaimejwalker.plus.com] has left #openttd [] 12:01:16 *** joed__ [n=James@CPE-143-238-5-54.vic.bigpond.net.au] has quit ["Client exiting"] 12:02:24 *** Zahl [i=SENFGURK@dslb-082-083-251-191.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #openttd 12:11:12 *** ledow [n=ledow@jaimejwalker.plus.com] has joined #openttd 12:16:51 <Sacro> anyone around, i got a signal bug on brianettas ukrs nightly server 12:17:14 <Sacro> n/m, fixed it 12:18:41 <KUDr> diff? 12:18:50 *** jnmbk [n=jnmbk@88.240.59.109] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 12:25:19 <Sacro> KUDr: built a missing signal :) 12:25:50 <KUDr> aha, so bug not in sources :) 12:27:31 <Hackykid> what kind of pathfinding algo does YAPF use? 12:27:41 <KUDr> A* 12:27:53 <KUDr> but is bit faster than NTP 12:28:14 <Hackykid> ah 12:28:19 <KUDr> and much than NPF 12:28:29 <Hackykid> cool 12:28:47 <KUDr> but still in prototype phase 12:29:36 *** TinoDidri is now known as Jezral 12:30:31 <Hackykid> but it sounds promising :-) 12:31:04 <KUDr> hopefully 12:31:29 <KUDr> but still not good for ships 12:31:40 <Hackykid> whats the main difference between npf an yaps that make yapf so much faster? 12:31:46 <Hackykid> *yapf 12:31:48 <KUDr> there are milions of nodes visited 12:31:57 *** Eddi|zuHause [i=johekr@p54B76A70.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 12:32:33 <KUDr> 1) YAPF is in C++ (using templates -> static binding) 12:32:51 <KUDr> 2) segment is part of node 12:33:03 <KUDr> 3) segment cost cache 12:33:06 *** jnmbk [n=jnmbk@88.240.59.109] has joined #openttd 12:33:30 <Hackykid> nice nice 12:33:41 <Hackykid> hmm, templates are cool :-) 12:33:56 <KUDr> but make it hard to read 12:34:06 <KUDr> i need to do something with it 12:34:20 <KUDr> it must be understandable 12:34:25 <KUDr> not cryptic 12:34:25 <Hackykid> hmm, true 12:35:03 <KUDr> i don't want to be only one who can maintain it in the future 12:37:21 * ThePizzaKing pictures KUDr 80 years old and still programming YAPF 12:37:43 <KUDr> hehe it could happen :) 12:38:07 *** Torrasque [n=jerome@241.150.186.195.cust.bluewin.ch] has quit ["Ex-Chat"] 12:38:26 <ThePizzaKing> After that commenty thing, I'm off to bed 12:38:59 *** SchAmane [n=schamane@p5498D14B.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 12:39:08 <blathijs> 14:34 < KUDr> not cryptic <-- is that a reference to NPF? 12:39:27 <KUDr> to current YAPF 12:39:42 <KUDr> i am not satisfied w/ its readability 12:39:45 <izhirahider> KUDr: Are you using Doxygen with it? 12:39:55 <KUDr> sometimes 12:40:03 <KUDr> but it is not the problem 12:40:13 <KUDr> nested templates are the problem 12:40:32 <KUDr> too much nesting 12:40:46 <Jango> is the segment cost cache done now? 12:40:57 <KUDr> yes 12:41:07 <Jango> makes a big speed difference? 12:41:19 <KUDr> it is now faster than NTP 12:41:31 <KUDr> so YAPF is now fastest PF 12:41:47 <Jango> ah, and it looks ahead much further than OPF? 12:42:05 <Tron> does this include the cost for updating the cache? 12:42:14 <KUDr> it finds any existing path - and the best path always 12:42:32 <KUDr> Tron: yes 12:42:45 <KUDr> cache is updated on the fly 12:42:54 <KUDr> as side effect 12:43:49 <Tron> i mean the cost for the callback 12:43:57 <Tron> is this included in your measurement? 12:44:35 <Jango> hmm, the PF in this game r4575 is going a bit potty 12:44:39 <KUDr> this callback happens only when you build something and contains only one line: counter++ 12:44:47 *** tokai|noir [n=tokai@p54B80925.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #openttd 12:45:36 <Tron> only when you build something? 12:45:43 <Tron> why is it used in train_cmd.c then? 12:45:43 <KUDr> or remove 12:45:44 *** Eddi|zuHause2 [i=johekr@p54B76A12.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 12:46:29 <KUDr> hmm, i was blind probably - in removing crashed wagon 12:46:36 <Hackykid> hmm, so segment costs wont take into account signal states then? 12:46:44 <KUDr> you are right - it can be removed 12:47:18 <KUDr> Hackykid: only first 10 signals are counted and last one 12:47:50 <Hackykid> i see 12:48:22 <KUDr> after 10 signals passed the cache is used 12:48:22 *** Hackykid [n=Hackykid@ip5655e868.adsl-surfen.hetnet.nl] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 12:48:53 *** Hackykid [n=Hackykid@ip5655e868.adsl-surfen.hetnet.nl] has joined #openttd 12:48:58 <Hackykid> argh 12:49:16 <KUDr> Hackykid: after 10 signals passed the cache is used 12:49:26 <Hackykid> ah, like that 12:49:56 <Hackykid> thats smart :-) 12:50:14 <KUDr> thanks 12:53:56 *** DjViper [i=djviper@mishima-empire.h-nett.no] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 12:54:09 *** DjViper [i=djviper@mishima-empire.h-nett.no] has joined #Openttd 12:57:51 <Hackykid> but you may not have a true A* compatible cost function then, cause the cost of a signal depends on the route being taken to that signal 12:58:18 <Hackykid> but hehm the NPF cost function is also flawed like that, and you usually dont notice it 12:59:20 <KUDr> Hackykid: YAPF cache has two different segments for each real segment (depends on direction you enter) 12:59:58 <Hackykid> hmm, so? 13:00:01 <KUDr> if it is 11th signal or more 13:00:16 <KUDr> why it should depend on the previous nodes? 13:00:34 <Hackykid> say theres a signal 13:00:42 <KUDr> the fist anwer was from my misunderstanding 13:01:02 <Hackykid> 1 route which has that signal as 1st signal, so it generates some penalty 13:01:16 <Hackykid> 1 route which has that signal as 11th signal, so it generates no penalty 13:01:56 <Hackykid> so, the cost of the signal depends on the route being taken to it 13:01:59 <KUDr> Hackykid: first 10 signals are calculated always and not cached 13:02:24 <Hackykid> yeah 13:02:28 <Hackykid> so? 13:02:37 <KUDr> so it cannot happen 13:02:47 *** tokai [n=tokai@p54B82C1E.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 13:02:53 <KUDr> all signals in cached segments are 11th or more 13:03:12 *** tokai|ni [n=tokai@p54B82C1E.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 13:03:23 <KUDr> and reused only when 10 signals were passed already 13:03:58 <Hackykid> how does this contradict what i said? 13:04:31 <KUDr> [14:58:59] <Hackykid> 1 route which has that signal as 1st signal, so it generates some penalty <-- this is never cached 13:04:39 <Hackykid> so? 13:04:41 <KUDr> so it generates penalty 13:04:46 <Hackykid> its not about caching 13:04:50 <Hackykid> yes, it does 13:04:57 <Hackykid> [15:01] <Hackykid> so, the cost of the signal depends on the route being taken to it 13:05:15 <KUDr> yes 13:05:25 <KUDr> and it is ok, and should be so 13:05:27 <KUDr> or not? 13:06:12 <Hackykid> well, A* required that the same node always has the same cost, independant on the route being taken to that node 13:06:32 <Tron> that's not true 13:06:35 <Hackykid> but well like a said, NPF suffers from the same thing 13:06:36 <KUDr> are you sure? 13:06:37 <Hackykid> hmm 13:06:37 <Hackykid> ok 13:06:46 <Hackykid> Tron: really? 13:06:53 * Hackykid goes do some checking 13:06:57 <Tron> A* just requires that the estimate to the destination is always lower than the real cost 13:07:08 <Tron> that's called "valid estimate" 13:07:10 *** CobraA1 [n=Jeremiah@cpe-024-088-000-194.sc.res.rr.com] has left #openttd [] 13:07:21 <KUDr> exactly (lower or equal) 13:07:48 <Tron> there's also "monotonic estimates", but that just gives some extra properties, but is not necessary for a valid result 13:07:59 <KUDr> so i can't apply bonuses (negative costs) 13:08:06 <Tron> valid in the sense of A* means: find the cheapest path, if it exists 13:08:12 <Hackykid> ah 13:08:40 <blathijs> "cause the cost of a signal depends on the route being taken to that signal" <-- I talked to a friend of mine yesterday, who hacked on an NPF feature: giving every red signal a penalty, the closer the signal the higher the penalties. That resulted in trains taking stupid detours all the time, to increase the distance between themselves and the red signals... 13:09:02 <Born_Acorn> Hackykid! REMIND. 13:09:09 <Born_Acorn> peter1138! newstations! 13:09:14 <Hackykid> well, i once got npf to give me a not-cheapest path, and after discussing it with blathijs and truelight i think, truelight said the problem was the cost function 13:09:29 <Hackykid> oh well, was a long time ago :-p 13:09:35 <Tron> blathijs: read what i just wrote about the estimate! 13:10:11 <blathijs> Tron: I know how A* works, I was just illustrating a funny side effect of applying penalties... 13:11:48 <Hackykid> hmm, yeah, i think i get it now 13:12:26 <KUDr> Hackykid: so i misunderstood you twice 13:12:48 *** Torrasque [n=jerome@241.150.186.195.cust.bluewin.ch] has joined #openttd 13:12:52 <Hackykid> KUDr: and i was remembering something wrongly :-p 13:13:06 <KUDr> ok, now it's clear 13:14:15 *** webfreakz [n=Ronald@195.73.147.226] has joined #openttd 13:14:22 <Hackykid> the thing was, in npf the first signal gets a higher penalty if its red 13:14:26 *** DaleStan_ [n=Dale@12-202-240-195.client.insightBB.com] has joined #openttd 13:14:36 *** DaleStan [n=Dale@12-202-240-195.client.insightBB.com] has quit [Nick collision from services.] 13:14:38 <KUDr> YAPF too 13:14:48 <Hackykid> so a train would prefer to take a detour that first went to a green signal and then to that red signal 13:14:53 <KUDr> also it has that look ahead as blathijs described 13:15:16 <Hackykid> which kinda suprised me at the time heh 13:15:28 <KUDr> Hackykid: it must be so - load balancing 13:15:28 *** |Jango| [n=kvirc@puritan.demon.co.uk] has joined #openttd 13:15:31 <Hackykid> yeah 13:15:41 <Hackykid> its not really bad when you think about it 13:15:56 <Hackykid> some situation just give slightly weird results 13:16:03 <KUDr> yes 13:16:26 <KUDr> can call it feature - not a bug (as M$ does often) 13:16:36 <Hackykid> :-) 13:17:58 <Tron> this reminds me of space invaders 13:18:45 *** webfreakz [n=Ronald@195.73.147.226] has quit ["Leaving."] 13:19:08 *** webfreakz [n=Ronald@195.73.147.226] has joined #openttd 13:19:31 <Hackykid> hmm, space invaders, why is that? 13:20:01 <Hackykid> ack! 13:20:02 <Cipri> Maybe he wants to equip trains with blasters, so they can shoot trains off the track and always get the fastest route... 13:20:17 <Tron> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Space_Invaders <--- section "Implementation", first paragraph 13:20:28 <Tron> oldest "it's not a bug, it's a feature" known to me 13:20:30 <Tobin> Heh, according to the Nokia N73 technical specifications the Sales Package contains an N72. Now that's a handy accessory. 13:21:02 <Hackykid> hehe, thats interesting indeed :-) 13:24:28 *** _Jango_ [n=kvirc@puritan.demon.co.uk] has joined #openttd 13:27:51 *** Torrasque [n=jerome@241.150.186.195.cust.bluewin.ch] has quit ["Ex-Chat"] 13:31:45 *** Dred_furst [i=nn@82.37.135.45] has joined #openttd 13:32:46 *** Jango [n=kvirc@puritan.demon.co.uk] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 13:33:23 *** Bjarni [n=Bjarni@0x50c79a16.virnxx14.adsl-dhcp.tele.dk] has joined #openttd 13:33:27 *** mode/#openttd [+o Bjarni] by ChanServ 13:37:17 *** YoG [n=zevele@bzq-88-154-112-44.red.bezeqint.net] has joined #openttd 13:39:18 *** |Jango| [n=kvirc@puritan.demon.co.uk] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 13:42:55 *** SchAmane [n=schamane@p5498D14B.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit ["Ciao"] 13:43:38 <Darkvater> blathijs: about DepotID/StationID. It is a bit of a mix but since trains have StationID orders I have made the depots into StationID as well seeing them as a somewhat 'obfuscated' station 13:44:36 *** coppercore [n=copperco@dpc691919178.direcpc.com] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 13:45:16 <CIA-3> bjarni * r4621 /branch/yapf/Makefile: -Fix: [OSX, YAPF] removed -lrt (again), this time only for OSX 13:45:34 <KUDr> thanks Bjarni 13:45:49 <Tron> Celestar: ok, i checked a range of about 1500 revisions and i have absolutly no idea what could cause the tile owner to change 13:46:14 <Tron> Rubidium: ? 13:46:17 <Bjarni> how far into the future is 0.4.8? 13:47:07 *** YoG [n=zevele@bzq-88-154-112-44.red.bezeqint.net] has quit [] 13:48:03 <Sacro> Bjarni: its next :) 13:49:40 <Darkvater> bla bla, too much talk; what did I miss? :) 13:49:57 <webfreakz> something about space invaders :) 13:49:58 *** tokai|mdlx [n=tokai@p54B84106.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #openttd 13:50:46 <Darkvater> Bjarni: check the ottd dev forum for a post called '0.4.8 preparations' and see if you agree with the backports and if stuff is missed out 13:50:57 <black_Nightmare> darkvater..got a link 13:51:13 <black_Nightmare> I want see (I already am crazy about the nightly build stuffs thats not even in 0.4.7 LOLOLOL) 13:51:17 * black_Nightmare laughs 13:52:26 <Darkvater> no link,should be around the top somewhere 13:53:48 *** mode/#openttd [-o Darkvater] by Darkvater 13:53:55 <Bjarni> ok, I guess I better take a look at the issue in 0.4.7 that caused saving problems on OSX 10.3 (fixed in the trunk) 13:54:52 <Darkvater> Bjarni: look at the list and see if it is in there. If not reply to topic with rev 13:54:53 <black_Nightmare> ok one second..let me look :-D 13:55:21 <black_Nightmare> ah found it 13:56:02 *** Red747 is now known as Red^gone 13:58:03 *** jnmbk [n=jnmbk@88.240.59.109] has left #openttd ["Konversation terminated!"] 13:59:01 <blathijs> Darkvater: I'll make them DepotID for my new pools, since that is required to make the pool work right 13:59:12 <blathijs> Darkvater: same for WaypointID 14:00:18 <Darkvater> Don't see too much point in it. Will give troubles if/when switching to C++ about incompatible types 14:00:55 *** _Jango_ [n=kvirc@puritan.demon.co.uk] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 14:03:40 *** black_Nightmare [n=Husky_dr@modemcable065.248-200-24.mc.videotron.ca] has left #openttd ["bye"] 14:10:29 *** angerman_ [n=angerman@e181124127.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #openttd 14:10:29 *** tokai|noir [n=tokai@p54B80925.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 14:14:16 <Sacro> amusement peoples: http://www.fhm.com/site/bigeye/link.asp?http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v-Lsj4GwqRU 14:15:36 <CIA-3> KUDr * r4622 /branch/yapf/yapf/ (yapf.hpp yapf_costrail.hpp): [YAPF] Fix: trains can't find route to the waypoint (thanks webfreakz) 14:16:17 *** Forexs [i=Forexs@x1-6-00-0f-b5-14-63-5f.k136.webspeed.dk] has joined #openttd 14:18:21 *** angerman1 [n=angerman@e181124199.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #openttd 14:20:00 *** glx [i=glx@bny93-6-82-245-156-124.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #openttd 14:20:35 *** angerman [n=angerman@e181124250.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 14:21:25 *** Maedhros [n=jc@gentoo/developer/Maedhros] has joined #openttd 14:21:28 *** MeusH[away] is now known as MeusH 14:25:19 *** tokai|noir [n=tokai@p54B83D10.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #openttd 14:28:01 <Sionide> how come there's no plain simple linux-i386.tar.gz file of 0.4.7 ?? 14:29:01 <Noldo> you mean binary? 14:29:36 *** angerman_ [n=angerman@e181124127.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 14:29:40 <Sionide> err yeah 14:30:16 *** Hackykid [n=Hackykid@ip5655e868.adsl-surfen.hetnet.nl] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 14:30:51 <Sacro> do u want one doing? 14:30:56 <Sacro> i did one for 0.4.5 14:31:12 <Sionide> it's alright, i've compiled myself just never really had to before.. 14:31:20 <CIA-3> Darkvater * r4623 /trunk/ (7 files in 2 dirs): - Codechange: s/byte/PlayerID 14:31:21 <Sionide> compiled *it* myself, heh 14:32:26 <Brianetta> Two-way single-track line with stations as passing places and the odd single-platform station. How many trains would you expect to fit on there? 14:33:38 *** Aankhen`` [n=pockled@203.101.2.100] has joined #openttd 14:33:57 <Brianetta> The fifth one jammed it. 14:33:59 <Brianetta> ): 14:35:34 *** Dred_furst [i=nn@82.37.135.45] has quit [Read error: 131 (Connection reset by peer)] 14:37:34 *** pittyplatsch [n=tokai@p54B81B08.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #openttd 14:38:24 <CIA-3> bjarni * r4624 /branch/0.4/ (4 files in 3 dirs): (log message trimmed) 14:38:24 <CIA-3> -Backported r4149 from trunk 14:38:24 <CIA-3> main reason is that it fixes the load/save issue for OSX 10.3.9, but the other stuff in this commit can't be taken as it's a result of the fix 14:38:24 <CIA-3> full commit log entry: 14:38:24 <CIA-3> -Codechange: [OSX] rewrite of how universal binaries are compiled 14:38:26 <CIA-3> Now OSX stores object files in .OSX and instead of making FAT object files, there are one for each architecture 14:38:31 <CIA-3> Each architecture got their own targets to make a non-FAT binary and in the end, lipo will merge them into one binary 14:38:34 <CIA-3> glx * r4625 /branch/yapf/Makefile: [YAPF] Fix: removed -lrt for MINGW 14:39:00 <Brianetta> Fixed - five trains sharing duplex track 14:39:19 <Bjarni> "but the other stuff in this commit can't be taken as it's a result of the fix" <-- oops, it's the other way around. The fix is a result from the other changes, but it's the reason why I made the other changes 14:39:21 <Bjarni> oh well 14:41:24 *** tokai|mdlx [n=tokai@p54B84106.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 14:42:49 <CIA-3> bjarni * r4626 /branch/yapf/Makefile: -Cleanup: [YAPF makefile] changed a comment in the makefile to reflect glx's commit regarding Mingw (the line no longer applies to OSX only) 14:43:15 <Bjarni> glx: now that's how to create a lot of new revisions: make then a few lines each and yet they are connected ;) 14:43:24 <Bjarni> :p 14:44:17 <glx> oups I didn't see that comment :) 14:45:43 <Bjarni> I added it an hour ago (in rev 4621) 14:47:50 <KUDr> how it will be for cygwin now 14:47:53 <Darkvater> hmm can someone refresh my memory why we have p->money64 AND p->player_money? 14:47:56 <KUDr> will it work? 14:48:33 <Bjarni> KUDr: I have no idea. It's windows stuff 14:48:36 <KUDr> p->player_money is for compatibility with old savegames? 14:48:55 <Darkvater> KUDr: no it's only a hacked 32-bit version of your real money 14:48:59 <KUDr> Bjarni: yes, but -lrt is invalid for windows 14:49:02 <Darkvater> I think it was for some 'preformance' reasons 14:49:04 <KUDr> i guess 14:49:09 <Darkvater> but I really see no point in keeping it 14:49:21 <glx> KUDr: I don't know about cygwin 14:49:28 <KUDr> ok 14:49:48 *** tokai [n=tokai@p54B82B59.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #openttd 14:51:26 <Darkvater> and what the heck is SubtractMoneyFromPlayerFract() ? 14:51:43 <Bjarni> bbl 14:51:45 <KUDr> it should be probably removed for all Win32 14:51:54 *** Bjarni [n=Bjarni@0x50c79a16.virnxx14.adsl-dhcp.tele.dk] has quit ["Leaving"] 14:52:04 <Darkvater> hmm, I'll return when more animo is present to discuss this ;) 14:52:15 <Darkvater> I'll have some nurishing food first 14:52:26 <KUDr> good apetite 14:52:39 <Darkvater> thx 14:52:59 *** DaleStan_ is now known as DaleStan 14:58:04 *** tokai|noir [n=tokai@p54B83D10.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 15:04:13 <MeusH> bbl 15:04:14 <MeusH> cya 15:04:25 *** MeusH [n=MeusH@host-ip18-138.crowley.pl] has quit ["Goodbye"] 15:04:31 *** Andrew67 [n=andrew67@206.248.80.224] has joined #openttd 15:08:34 *** pittyplatsch [n=tokai@p54B81B08.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 15:09:15 *** Hackykid [n=Hackykid@ip5655e868.adsl-surfen.hetnet.nl] has joined #openttd 15:18:37 *** tokai|noir [n=tokai@p54B8108E.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #openttd 15:19:23 *** tokai|noir [n=tokai@p54B8108E.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 15:19:25 *** tokai|noir [n=tokai@p54B8108E.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #openttd 15:36:52 *** tokai [n=tokai@p54B82B59.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 15:59:21 *** tokai [n=tokai@p54B8300E.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #openttd 16:03:50 *** tokai [n=tokai@p54B8300E.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Client Quit] 16:04:36 *** tokai [n=tokai@p54B8300E.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #openttd 16:04:56 *** Tobin [n=Tobin@c211-28-197-129.eburwd7.vic.optusnet.com.au] has quit [] 16:13:26 *** tokai|mdlx [n=tokai@p54B8164B.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #openttd 16:18:36 *** tokai|noir [n=tokai@p54B8108E.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 16:20:54 * Sacro kicks the british education system 16:22:53 *** KritiK [i=Maxim@ppp15-33.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #openttd 16:25:21 *** tokai|noir [n=tokai@p54B82534.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #openttd 16:25:53 <Eddi|zuHause> you always kick on people that are already on the ground? :p 16:27:18 <Sacro> you cant get anywhere in this country without a shedload of hassle 16:30:05 *** tokai [n=tokai@p54B8300E.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 16:32:29 *** Hackykid [n=Hackykid@ip5655e868.adsl-surfen.hetnet.nl] has quit [] 16:33:02 *** Hackykid [n=Hackykid@ip5655e868.adsl-surfen.hetnet.nl] has joined #openttd 16:36:55 *** Trippledence [n=Trippled@cust183-dsl52.idnet.net] has joined #openttd 16:38:05 *** Trippledence_ [n=Trippled@cust183-dsl52.idnet.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 16:40:20 *** webfreakz [n=Ronald@195.73.147.226] has quit ["bye!"] 16:44:20 *** tokai|mdlx [n=tokai@p54B8164B.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 16:54:24 *** Netsplit calvino.freenode.net <-> irc.freenode.net quits: guru3 16:54:48 *** Netsplit over, joins: guru3 16:56:04 <hylje> what expenses go under the "other" heading 16:57:59 <Sacro> money transfers 17:05:26 *** Andrew67 [n=andrew67@206.248.80.224] has quit [Client Quit] 17:05:29 <Sionide> Sacro, what bit of the british education system you kicking? 17:05:33 <Sionide> i managed not too badly ;) 17:06:36 <Sacro> Sionide: im wanting to go to uni and make something of my life 17:06:50 <Sionide> ah, i've already got over that herdle 17:07:01 <Sionide> hurdle* 17:07:09 *** Cipri [n=cipri@a47034.upc-a.chello.nl] has quit [] 17:07:39 <Brianetta> I dropped out of uni 17:07:55 <Sacro> ive dropped out of college twice 17:08:24 <Sionide> i might drop out if i don't do some bloody revision right about now 17:08:27 <Sionide> exams in a week >_< 17:08:33 <Brianetta> Drop out 17:08:35 <Brianetta> Join us 17:08:40 <hylje> how can i get rid of town-owned bridges :x 17:08:47 <Brianetta> hylje: Cheat 17:08:54 <hylje> right 17:11:06 <Scia> hylje: allow removal of more town-owened roads, bridges, etc 17:11:11 <Scia> its a patch option 17:11:27 <Scia> and when you have excellent rating or so you can demolish a bridge 17:14:43 *** ShadowJK [n=jk@ludicrous.sby.abo.fi] has quit ["Leaving"] 17:14:56 *** tokai|mdlx [n=tokai@p54B840AD.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #openttd 17:17:01 *** Zahl22 [n=SENFGURK@dslb-082-083-238-103.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #openttd 17:18:22 *** Zahl [i=SENFGURK@dslb-082-083-251-191.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Nick collision from services.] 17:18:22 *** Zahl22 is now known as Zahl 17:21:37 *** ShadowJK [n=jk@208.53.150.226] has joined #openttd 17:24:03 *** tomahawk [n=tomahawk@abrc234.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has joined #openttd 17:35:33 *** pittyplatsch [n=tokai@p54B85059.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #openttd 17:35:39 *** tokai|noir [n=tokai@p54B82534.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Connection timed out] 17:49:43 *** sw4y [n=sw4y@snat2.arachne.czfree.net] has joined #openttd 17:55:01 *** Bjarni [n=Bjarni@0x50c79a16.virnxx14.adsl-dhcp.tele.dk] has joined #openttd 17:55:04 *** mode/#openttd [+o Bjarni] by ChanServ 17:55:53 *** tokai|mdlx [n=tokai@p54B840AD.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 17:57:54 <hylje> :X the gentoo ebuild for ottd still has quite a lot of dependencies 17:59:11 <Maedhros> what, sdl, png, zlib, and alsa-utils/timidity++? :-P 17:59:49 <Brianetta> New nightly any moment (: 18:00:04 <Scia> :) 18:00:05 <hylje> several media libs, qt, etc 18:00:23 <Scia> qt? o_0 18:00:28 <Maedhros> hylje: qt?! it really shouldn't be depending on that... 18:00:47 <hylje> [ebuild N ] x11-libs/qt-3.3.4-r8 18:00:55 <hylje> [ebuild N ] x11-libs/gtk+-2.8.8 18:01:09 <Brianetta> 4623 18:02:21 <Maedhros> hylje: echo 'media-sound/timidity++ -arts -gtk -gtk2' >> /etc/portage/package.use 18:02:32 <Maedhros> that should sort out qt and gtk+ anyway 18:04:40 <hylje> im still longing for a dependency-light dedicated build 18:05:16 <Maedhros> well, use the dedicated USE flag ;) 18:05:17 <Brianetta> hylje? 18:05:36 <Brianetta> Oh, you're on Gentoo 18:05:43 <Brianetta> It sucks for stuff like that 18:05:49 <hylje> Maedhros: well, it doesnt make the dependencies any less 18:06:03 <Brianetta> I wanted an xpilot server, but the ebuild tried to merge X libs because the client comes with it 18:06:13 <hylje> ill look if compiling it manually could make it a bit lighter 18:06:20 <Brianetta> hylje: It does 18:06:30 <Brianetta> Don't use an ebuild 18:06:49 <Brianetta> because they suck for any application that has a variable amount of dependencies 18:06:49 <hylje> ebuild's for .4.0 anyway 18:07:01 <Maedhros> hylje: with USE="-png -zlib dedicated" the only dependency is sdl 18:07:04 <Brianetta> They assume the largest number of dependencies 18:07:16 <Brianetta> Maedhros: You don't even need SDL 18:07:33 <Brianetta> Like I said, avoid the ebuild 18:07:49 <Brianetta> Use it for system stuff, but OpenTTD is more flexible than Gentoo 18:08:02 <Brianetta> My nightly server, BTW, is a Gentoo box 18:08:13 <Brianetta> I know what I am talking about (: 18:08:17 *** egladil [n=egladil@frukt.csbnet.se] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 18:09:56 <Maedhros> well, i know Gentoo better than i know OpenTTD, so i'll shut up now ;) 18:11:09 *** egladil [n=egladil@frukt.csbnet.se] has joined #openttd 18:11:45 *** Scia [n=sciapode@AveloN.xs4all.nl] has quit ["out of gasoline"] 18:15:03 <hylje> zlib should be the only dependency for dedicated? 18:16:12 <Sacro> and that isnt required 18:16:19 <hylje> :> 18:16:26 <Darkvater> it's pretty useless without zlib 18:16:39 <hylje> that was what i meant 18:17:44 <hylje> the source tarball doesnt have really much compiling docs 18:17:56 <hylje> ie. compile-time configuration 18:18:11 <Sacro> im after a decent war game, kinda like settlers/cossacks, any recommendations? 18:19:38 *** tokai|noir [n=tokai@p54B835B7.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #openttd 18:20:36 <hylje> hmm, there isnt a ./configure option 18:21:08 <hylje> whats the way im supposed to give it the configuration 18:21:09 <Sacro> i was looking into autoconfigure for openttd 18:21:16 <Sacro> hylje: edit Makefile 18:23:52 <hylje> .x 18:24:47 <Tron> $EDITOR Makefile.config 18:28:46 *** YoG [n=zevele@bzq-88-154-112-44.red.bezeqint.net] has joined #openttd 18:34:47 *** cobratbq [n=borgirc@dsl236-102-100.fastxdsl.nl] has joined #openttd 18:35:08 <cobratbq> hi guys, got kind of a weird sound problem with OpenTTD 18:35:19 <cobratbq> I've already searched the forums and didn't get an anser 18:35:22 <cobratbq> answer 18:35:52 <cobratbq> symptoms: OpenTTD takes 2 to 3 times longer than it's supposed to to start up 18:36:05 <glx> what OS? 18:36:08 <cobratbq> I don't hear any sound effects nor music (nor anything else you can think) 18:36:10 <cobratbq> WinXP 18:36:12 <cobratbq> SP2 EN 18:36:32 <Brianetta> Updated http://ppcis.org/nightly/ to include previous saved games for download. 18:36:39 <Darkvater> do you have soundcard? 18:36:56 <cobratbq> Terratec Aureon 7.1 Space 18:37:24 <cobratbq> but when I disable the music (-m null) I still don't get sounds 18:37:33 <cobratbq> but it does startup at normal speed 18:37:53 <glx> maybe a bad sample.cat 18:38:10 <Darkvater> does the soundcard work properly otherwise? 18:38:11 <cobratbq> can't, I'm using the same files on a laptop and it works fine there 18:38:23 <Darkvater> have you tried the other options for music/sound? 18:38:25 <cobratbq> yes, haven't got a single problem/crash or whatever with my soundcard 18:38:26 <cobratbq> yep 18:38:34 <Darkvater> eg the one in the list if you start openttd with -h 18:38:37 <cobratbq> when i -m null openttd starts up at normal speed 18:38:42 <cobratbq> but 18:38:47 <cobratbq> I stilll don't get sound 18:38:53 *** pittyplatsch [n=tokai@p54B85059.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 18:39:00 <cobratbq> have tried -s win32/sdl and -m win32/dmusic 18:39:16 <Sacro> cobratbq: latest sound drivers? 18:39:19 <Darkvater> and '-m dmusic' 18:39:22 <Darkvater> or -m win32? 18:39:35 <cobratbq> Sacro: yep 18:39:40 <cobratbq> Sacro: non-beta 18:40:26 <cobratbq> start with no add. options: very slow, no music, no sound, get ticking sound after about half a minute 18:40:39 <cobratbq> start with dmusic: the same 18:40:52 <glx> dmusic is the default 18:41:00 <cobratbq> start with win32: start immediately but no music/sound/whatever 18:41:22 <cobratbq> start with null: starts immediately, but no sound/whatever 18:41:36 <Darkvater> that is weird..I think it's your sound driver 18:41:41 <glx> can you hear the music when you open the .gm in a player? 18:41:50 <Darkvater> I have two winxp SP2 machines here and I get music both with dmusic and win32 18:42:12 <glx> smae here, just a problem with music volume 18:42:21 <Sacro> cobratbq: which version of OpenTTD? 18:42:39 <cobratbq> glx: i hear music playing with mplayer2 18:42:55 <cobratbq> 0.4.7 and nightly 18:43:01 <cobratbq> but had it months ago too 18:43:09 <cobratbq> with nightly then and with 0.4.3 i think 18:43:47 <hylje> does the .4.7 installer cleanly upgrade from .4.5 18:43:56 <hylje> as in, any possible issues 18:44:21 <cobratbq> (btw problem still exists if I don't copy the GM-folder) 18:44:26 <YoG> hi, when I open the map, the games gets real slow... does anyone knows anything about that? 18:44:39 <glx> YoG: map size? 18:44:49 <YoG> even with the smallest 18:45:04 <YoG> glx: thats 64x64 right? 18:45:19 <glx> that's the smallest yes 18:45:58 <YoG> glx: worth mentioning: I'm running it on a linux handheld 18:46:04 <Maedhros> for anyone interested, i've filed a Gentoo bug about openttd depending on libsdl when building a dedicated server: http://bugs.gentoo.org/131704 18:46:13 <glx> YoG: CPU maybe :) 18:46:32 <YoG> glx: 400MHz 18:46:51 <glx> you have sound or not? 18:47:02 <YoG> glx: with sound 18:47:15 <glx> try without ( -m null -s null) 18:47:31 <YoG> glx: checking... 18:48:00 <Darkvater> yeah timidity is a bitch 18:48:22 <Darkvater> cobratbq: did other versions work properly? eg 0.4.6 or 0.4.5 with sound? 18:48:26 <Darkvater> eh music I mean 18:48:40 <cobratbq> havent tried .4.6 and .4.5 but I suspect they don't 18:48:48 <cobratbq> because .4.3 and the nightly then didn't work either 18:49:05 <YoG> glx: nope... still stuck, without the map the game runs just fine 18:49:10 <Tron> start 0.4.7 in a console 18:49:18 <Tron> with openttd -d driver=9 18:49:59 <cobratbq> DirectMusic: Get object failed (lots of times :p) 18:50:04 <cobratbq> sound probed @ win32 18:50:44 <Tron> copy&paste the all you entered + the full output somewhere 18:50:46 <Tron> NOT IN THIS CHANNEL 18:51:00 <cobratbq> hehe, let me guess... flooding :P 18:51:01 <glx> or screenshot 18:51:02 <Tron> pastebin or something 18:51:13 *** jnmbk_ [n=jnmbk@88.240.59.109] has joined #openttd 18:51:29 <glx> because copy/paste from ottd windows console is impossible 18:51:29 <YoG> glx: another idea? 18:51:39 <Darkvater> glx: no it's not 18:51:51 <cobratbq> nope it isn't when u use 'edit' option of the console window 18:51:57 <Tron> even the windows shell can do copy&paste 18:52:07 <Darkvater> glx: only winxp's c&p sucks 18:52:23 <Tron> it's way more complicated than from xterm/rxvt/any other terminal emulator, but it's possible 18:52:25 <Darkvater> in win2k you could just drag and copy, XP has this totally braindead and retarded method 18:52:40 <Sacro> grrrrr, cant get nightly past zonealarm 18:52:48 *** jnmbk_ is now known as jnmbk 18:53:15 <cobratbq> 4 lines output: 18:53:16 <cobratbq> dbg: Loading drivers... 18:53:16 <cobratbq> dbg: Successfully probed sound driver "win32" 18:53:21 <cobratbq> dbg: Successfully probed music driver "dmusic" 18:53:21 <cobratbq> dbg: Successfully probed video driver "win32" 18:53:26 <cobratbq> dbg: DirectMusic: Get object failed 18:53:27 <cobratbq> etc. 18:53:30 <cobratbq> (5 lines :P) 18:53:34 <hylje> liar 18:53:48 <cobratbq> get object failed keeps repeating 18:53:50 <Sacro> hylje: who? 18:54:44 <hylje> :p 18:54:55 <hylje> not anyone really 18:55:04 <cobratbq> directx 9.0c 18:55:12 <hylje> but that "4, oh 5 lines" ;) 18:55:36 <glx> cobratbq: where did you put the .gm ? 18:56:03 <cobratbq> in a folder 'gm' in the gamefolder 18:56:16 <cobratbq> d:\games\OpenTTD\gm 18:56:20 *** jnmbk [n=jnmbk@88.240.59.109] has left #openttd ["Konversation terminated!"] 18:56:45 <hylje> the console commands wiki page doesnt really have anything concerning a custom new game 18:57:30 <hylje> liek making it in subarctic instead of temperate 18:58:00 <Brianetta> Not sure it's possible 18:59:02 <hylje> :| 19:00:34 <Sacro> grr, ISP's b0rkified 19:00:38 <cobratbq> (installing in default directory doesn't work either) 19:03:12 *** tokai|mdlx [n=tokai@p54B82E7E.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #openttd 19:04:06 <cobratbq> trying a reboot, brb 19:04:07 *** cobratbq [n=borgirc@dsl236-102-100.fastxdsl.nl] has quit [] 19:04:25 <Darkvater> Tron: we should've printed out the error code in the debug message :) 19:04:37 <Tron> i didn't write that stuff 19:04:51 <Tron> i just f...iddled with it until it really worked 19:04:58 <Darkvater> :) 19:05:02 *** BJH_ [n=chatzill@e176122186.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #openttd 19:05:48 *** tomahawk [n=tomahawk@abrc234.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has left #openttd [] 19:06:04 *** YoG [n=zevele@bzq-88-154-112-44.red.bezeqint.net] has quit [] 19:07:25 *** cobratbq [n=borgirc@dsl236-102-100.fastxdsl.nl] has joined #openttd 19:07:50 <cobratbq> reboot, start openttd without using any kind of sound/music device in advance doesn't work either :-s 19:08:19 *** jnmbk [n=jnmbk@88.240.59.109] has joined #openttd 19:08:44 *** Aankhen`` [n=pockled@203.101.2.100] has quit ["Quote: We (heart) comic sans... and we'll kill animals to prove it [Time wasted online: 4hrs 35mins 16secs]"] 19:08:58 <Darkvater> cobratbq: I suppose you don't have a compiler/debugger at hand :) 19:09:15 <cobratbq> well... 19:09:37 <cobratbq> at the moment not 19:09:50 <cobratbq> I could install VS2005 but haven't done it yet... 19:10:29 <cobratbq> If it could help I would like to try it, but not today... :) 19:10:38 <Darkvater> shiiit, updated opera and lost all my bookmarks :S 19:10:39 <Darkvater> dammit 19:10:52 <Darkvater> cobratbq: well you are the only one that can help becuse it works for us 19:10:58 <hylje> opera sux like that 19:11:21 <cobratbq> yeah i figured I was a loner in this problem :P 19:11:27 <Triffid_Hunter> maybe its just using a different directory for your settings? if so, just close, copy bookmarks, and reopen 19:11:32 <cobratbq> well guys, thanks for now, I'll try that another time 19:12:19 <Triffid_Hunter> it does that on windows if i remember correctly 19:12:28 <Darkvater> np 19:12:41 <Darkvater> dude wtf 19:12:44 <Triffid_Hunter> in linux it just uses ~ 19:12:46 <Darkvater> a 19:12:48 <Darkvater> oh shit 19:12:50 <Triffid_Hunter> ~/.opera 19:12:51 <Darkvater> he, remember now :P 19:12:59 <Darkvater> I installed opera as administrator and then ran it 19:13:04 <Darkvater> of course all thes ettings were gone :P 19:14:13 <Triffid_Hunter> heh that'll do it 19:15:55 * Darkvater installs bash-wdiget 19:17:00 <cobratbq> for the record: via a Win2K VMWare virtual machine there's no problem :P 19:17:07 *** tokai|noir [n=tokai@p54B835B7.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 19:17:58 <Darkvater> cobratbq: that uses a normal soundcard :p 19:18:09 <cobratbq> yeah i know 19:21:26 *** BJH [n=chatzill@e176127142.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 19:26:17 <Sacro> bbl all 19:26:20 *** Sacro [n=Sacro@adsl-83-100-181-201.karoo.KCOM.COM] has quit [" HydraIRC -> http://www.hydrairc.com <- Leading Edge IRC"] 19:26:53 *** fusey [i=fusion@220.142.171.66.subscriber.vzavenue.net] has quit ["Peace and Protection 4.22"] 19:26:54 *** jnmbk [n=jnmbk@88.240.59.109] has left #openttd ["Konversation terminated!"] 19:28:18 *** cobratbq [n=borgirc@dsl236-102-100.fastxdsl.nl] has quit [] 19:32:58 *** Tron_ [n=tron@p54A3DA12.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 19:33:06 *** Tron [n=tron@p54A3FC74.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Nick collision from services.] 19:33:08 *** Tron_ is now known as Tron 19:37:19 *** fusey [i=fusion@220.142.171.66.subscriber.vzavenue.net] has joined #openttd 19:37:49 <Bjarni> do anybody know if the gentoo liveCD contains GCC? 19:38:32 <Maedhros> Bjarni: i don't think so 19:38:51 <Bjarni> hmm 19:39:02 <Bjarni> then which CD image should I pick when I want to compile stuff? 19:41:01 <Maedhros> i don't think any of the Gentoo CDs contain gcc, as they're only really there to be able to chroot into an environment with a compiler 19:41:22 <Bjarni> :( 19:41:29 <Bjarni> then how do I get started? 19:41:41 <Maedhros> slax seems to come with gcc though: http://slax.linux-live.org/ 19:43:54 <Bjarni> hmm, what is slax? 19:44:08 <Maedhros> a slackware based livecd 19:45:02 <Maedhros> the gentoo livecds are pretty much pointless unless you want to install gentoo with them, or for some basic system administration 19:46:27 <izhirahider> Bjarni: pick one live-cd from distrowatch.com list :) 19:47:40 <Darkvater> ~grrr 19:50:48 *** MeusH [n=MeusH@host-ip18-138.crowley.pl] has joined #openttd 19:51:12 <MeusH> hello 19:53:52 <Bjarni> hi MeusH 19:56:47 *** angerman1 [n=angerman@e181124199.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Client Quit] 19:58:48 *** black_Nightmare [n=Husky_dr@modemcable065.248-200-24.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #openttd 19:58:50 <black_Nightmare> hey :p 19:59:22 <XeryusTC> hi 20:00:51 <black_Nightmare> any of you heard of a DBSet 2005 Grf? 20:02:18 <Bjarni> no 20:02:27 <Bjarni> what's a Grf? 20:02:37 <Bjarni> please enlighten us 20:02:38 <black_Nightmare> graphic files 20:02:39 <Bjarni> :p 20:02:42 <black_Nightmare> are you new here? 20:02:43 <hylje> no really 20:02:53 <Bjarni> !slap black_Nightmare 20:02:54 <jmp_ghli> >Bjarni> Bjarni drops black_Nightmare into river Danube with six debian install CDs. 20:03:09 <Bjarni> I have been part of the developer team since 0.1.4 20:03:16 <black_Nightmare> hehe.... :)) 20:04:00 <Bjarni> I meant more like sure we know the DB set 20:04:12 <Bjarni> it was kind of a silly question 20:04:41 <black_Nightmare> well was just looking at server list from 0.4.7 and thought I'll try this one only the title said "[1920-2050]DBSet 2005 Grf needed" so..meh 20:04:49 <black_Nightmare> bjarni..fair enough, no actual harm meant ;) 20:05:19 <Bjarni> ahh, you are asking for an URL to get it 20:05:24 <Bjarni> that's something different 20:05:26 <Bjarni> MB made it 20:05:31 <black_Nightmare> MB..hm ok ty 20:05:37 <black_Nightmare> should be easier to search for..brb 20:05:53 <XeryusTC> http://grfcrawler.tt-forums.net 20:05:58 <Bjarni> http://www.ewetel.net/~michael.blunck/ttd/ 20:06:09 <black_Nightmare> ooo... I never noticed that xeryus....ty 20:06:10 <Bjarni> black_Nightmare: no need to search, I just linked to it 20:06:32 <black_Nightmare> I know but I mean...a grf search link...I'll have to remember that for other times 20:08:30 <Bjarni> <XeryusTC> http://grfcrawler.tt-forums.net <-- when did we get that one? 20:08:34 <Bjarni> I never noticed it before 20:08:52 <XeryusTC> Bjarni: it comes by in the ttdp graphics forums once in a while 20:10:21 <XeryusTC> signals and the electric poles are placed at the same spot sometimes *makes screenshot* 20:11:30 *** tokai|mdlx [n=tokai@p54B82E7E.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit ["It's like, wah."] 20:12:10 *** tokai [n=tokai@p54B81CFA.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #openttd 20:12:25 <Bjarni> "Thomas the Tank Engine Set" <-- hehe, some people make untraditional grf sets :) 20:12:29 <XeryusTC> http://xeryustc.cjb.net/openttd/elec.png <- if a dev would take a look 20:12:40 <XeryusTC> Bjarni: that set looks awesome 20:12:54 * XeryusTC is going to try it when it is released :) 20:12:57 <black_Nightmare> one dumb question... 20:13:09 <black_Nightmare> can you select different graphic files before starting your own map? 20:13:17 *** Sacro [n=Sacro@adsl-83-100-181-201.karoo.KCOM.COM] has joined #openttd 20:13:20 <black_Nightmare> or do you have to like edit the openttd file beforehand each time? 20:13:32 <XeryusTC> you need to edit the config file 20:13:39 <Sacro> evening all 20:13:54 <XeryusTC> heya sacro 20:13:56 <MeusH> hey Sacro 20:14:06 <Sacro> what have i missed? 20:14:17 <black_Nightmare> xeryus...ah hm thanks anyhow 20:14:28 <MeusH> black_Nightmare: AFAIK, not YET possible 20:14:47 <black_Nightmare> xeryus..would putting two graphic files together mean you'll have all vehicles from both files in one single list? 20:14:53 <black_Nightmare> or no..its only one at a time? 20:14:56 <XeryusTC> sometimes it does 20:15:01 <black_Nightmare> hm..thanks 20:15:04 <XeryusTC> sometimes one overwrites the others IDs 20:15:15 <black_Nightmare> think I'll stick to this pikka set but in case I want some change I'll consider it 20:15:45 <XeryusTC> i had that problem with tracks/tunnels yesterday, i put the enhanced tunnel graphics before the gray track graphics, the result was that the enhanced tunnel graphics were replaced by the grey track tunnels 20:16:43 <MeusH> :P 20:16:48 <black_Nightmare> quick question.. 20:17:02 <black_Nightmare> do you still need new grfs even to just speculate on a server that uses them? 20:17:10 <XeryusTC> yes 20:17:38 <Darkvater> spectate 20:17:55 <black_Nightmare> sorry...I sometimes spell weird for no reason 20:18:00 <XeryusTC> unless it is at the beginning of the game and there isnt anything used from those sets yet 20:18:11 <Sacro> KUDr: you around? 20:18:28 <KUDr> moment... must look 20:18:34 <KUDr> i seem 20:18:51 <KUDr> yes 20:18:54 <KUDr> i am 20:19:04 <Sacro> just want to say, on http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?t=24703&start=20 , the train should go straight on rather than branch, as branching goes next to the station but not into it 20:19:19 <KUDr> i know 20:19:23 <black_Nightmare> bjarni... 20:19:25 <KUDr> but i need savegame 20:19:33 <Sacro> ahh right :) 20:19:41 *** Trippledence [n=Trippled@cust183-dsl52.idnet.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 20:19:53 <black_Nightmare> I looked at that website and there's both 'db set xl (V0.82)' and 'db set (V0.5)' 20:19:58 <black_Nightmare> I'm guessing I would need the latter? 20:20:11 *** Trippledence [n=Trippled@cust183-dsl52.idnet.net] has joined #openttd 20:20:49 <XeryusTC> black_Nightmare: i think that there is a difference between "db set" and "db set xl" 20:23:01 *** Trippledence [n=Trippled@cust183-dsl52.idnet.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 20:23:33 *** Trippledence [n=Trippled@cust183-dsl52.idnet.net] has joined #openttd 20:26:20 <Bjarni> black_Nightmare: I think people use XL. It's newer and uses more advanced features 20:26:51 *** tokai [n=tokai@p54B81CFA.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit ["It's like, wah."] 20:27:16 <black_Nightmare> hmm ok I'll try put XL in 0.4.7 and join this server and see 20:27:19 <Bjarni> I think the other one is kind of backward compatible or something. It was made once for old versions of the patch so it just stayed online or something 20:27:21 <black_Nightmare> ty and..brb 20:30:28 <black_Nightmare> this would be the right format at bottom of the openttd file? '[newgrf]' then next line is the filename of the db set? 20:30:58 <Bjarni> [netgrf] 20:31:05 <Bjarni> name of grf file.grf 20:31:17 <Darkvater> hmm I have bought this tender for my train in tropicsetw.grf 20:31:19 <XeryusTC> [newgrf] Bjarni :P 20:31:20 <Brianetta> s/t/w/ 20:31:20 <Darkvater> does it do anything? 20:31:38 <XeryusTC> Darkvater: look at stats? 20:31:48 <Brianetta> Darkvater: UKRS brake vans do nothing but impose their speed limit 20:31:53 <Darkvater> all it says is weight 45T 20:32:01 <Brianetta> Simetimes you add something because it's right 20:32:06 <Brianetta> and your train ain't one without one 20:32:21 <Sacro> it'll make sense with realistic braking 20:32:59 <Brianetta> Sacro: You can add one to a 100km/h train running with many 70km.h trains and it won't keep running ahead and stopping at red signals 20:33:16 <Brianetta> then taking an age to accelerate 20:33:17 *** Cheery [i=Henri@a81-197-22-81.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has quit ["Leaving"] 20:33:18 <Darkvater> OMG 20:33:21 <Brianetta> and delaying even the slower ones 20:33:24 <Darkvater> I think the balance of this set is a bit off 20:33:26 <Brianetta> DV? 20:33:46 <Darkvater> 1946 and I get a new vehicle proposal for an engine that costs half a million pounds o_O 20:33:58 <Brianetta> Sounds right 20:34:01 <MeusH> inflation, eh? 20:34:04 <Brianetta> War time steel shortages (: 20:34:11 <Darkvater> hmm weight it costs only 2300 pounds in buy-list 20:34:13 <Darkvater> :p 20:34:13 <MeusH> hmm I'm 1946 right now and I'm waiting 10 years for a new vehicle 20:34:21 <Bjarni> goodnight 20:34:35 <Darkvater> I think peter1138 forgot to update the preview-window 20:34:55 <Bjarni> <XeryusTC> [newgrf] Bjarni :P <-- ok, I made a typo, but I guess black_Nightmare is clever enough to detect that. I mean, he is in Canada, not USA 20:35:00 <Bjarni> ;) 20:35:32 <XeryusTC> hehe, i was just "mierenneuken" (*calls Darkvater's to translate*) 20:35:56 <Bjarni> anyway I'm out of here (for today) 20:36:05 <Brianetta> later, Bjarni 20:36:09 *** Bjarni [n=Bjarni@0x50c79a16.virnxx14.adsl-dhcp.tele.dk] has quit ["Leaving"] 20:36:12 <XeryusTC> laterz 20:36:13 <black_Nightmare> hmm....guess the db grf does work..I'm spectate on the map and so far no problem 20:49:25 *** Trippledence [n=Trippled@cust183-dsl52.idnet.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 20:49:45 <Brianetta> I have music in my game (: 20:49:46 <Brianetta> yey 20:49:48 <Xaroth> Hm, Maybe i'm missing a part of the wiki, but is there a command line arg that automatically starts a multiplayer game (and join a server for instance) 20:49:50 <Brianetta> I made MP3s 20:50:00 *** Trippledence [n=Trippled@cust183-dsl52.idnet.net] has joined #openttd 20:51:03 <glx> Xaroth: -n [ip#player:port] 20:51:05 <XeryusTC> Xaroth: -n <address> iirc 20:51:12 *** tokai [n=tokai@p54B81CFA.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #openttd 20:52:09 <Xaroth> #player as in, 'use that player name' ? :o 20:52:36 *** coppercore [i=copperco@1Cust5066.an3.cle11.da.uu.net] has joined #openttd 20:52:51 <hylje> obviously 20:56:10 <glx> Xaroth: player number indeed 20:57:33 <black_Nightmare> hehe having two E62 electric engines just chugging along with a somewhat-long freight trains.... 37mph :p 20:57:37 <black_Nightmare> but they earn nice profits somehow 20:57:50 *** Dred_furst [i=nn@82-37-135-45.cable.ubr01.telf.blueyonder.co.uk] has joined #openttd 20:58:00 *** Hackykid [n=Hackykid@ip5655e868.adsl-surfen.hetnet.nl] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 20:58:06 <glx> black_Nightmare: freight wagons may have speed limit :) 20:58:15 <black_Nightmare> nah its the engine... 37mph itself 20:58:23 <black_Nightmare> wagons are good to 50 20:58:27 <glx> ha ok :) 20:58:27 <hylje> not enough kW 21:00:20 <hylje> btw, which engine got the best pulling power 21:00:29 <black_Nightmare> E62: 73t .. 966hp .. 37mph .. ,502/yr .. 96% reliability (breakdown are reduced) 21:00:35 <black_Nightmare> thats what this little engine is :p 21:01:05 <black_Nightmare> best would be the BR 194 but its veryyyy expensive buy price this early on lol 21:01:31 <black_Nightmare> 4400hp tho 21:04:11 <black_Nightmare> and I'm alone on this server 21:04:27 <black_Nightmare> I guess most people in germany are at work still or something 21:04:52 <XeryusTC> most people in germany are watching a movie on tv or something like that :) 21:04:56 <black_Nightmare> lol :p 21:07:18 <Xaroth> germany? it's 11pm there :P 21:08:13 <XeryusTC> i know, thats why they're watching movies :) 21:08:54 <black_Nightmare> 11pm .. hm that figures 21:09:24 <black_Nightmare> wonder why they left this server on at year 1951 when it'll probably end by the time anyone wakes up 21:10:52 <Celestar> yo 21:11:17 <Celestar> Tron: well that makes two of us 21:11:27 <Tron> ? 21:11:46 <Celestar> about the having checked 1500 revisions and not knowing what the owner-leak is caused by 21:12:05 <Tron> i ran a server with 7 AIs for several hours now 21:12:11 <Tron> no sign of owner corruption 21:12:20 <Tron> whereas in that save it was all over the place 21:12:32 <Celestar> I see you have the same ideas about finding the problem as I do (= 21:13:02 <Tron> though tests can never proof the absense of bugs, only their presense 21:13:24 <Celestar> that is true. 21:13:30 <Tron> but even more than an hour of code review didn't bring a single hint 21:13:55 <Celestar> Tron: I was thinking it happens when a player gets deleted (bankrupcy) ... 21:13:57 <Celestar> but . 21:14:31 *** sw4y [n=sw4y@snat2.arachne.czfree.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 21:14:32 <glx> Celestar: http://glx.dnsalias.net:8080/openttd/depot_signal(109).diff <-- this one works better than my previous try 21:15:18 *** Trippledence_ [n=Trippled@cust183-dsl52.idnet.net] has joined #openttd 21:15:36 <Celestar> Tron: .... 21:15:38 <Xaroth> hmf.. after fucking around with C# for about 2 years now, c/c++ still puzzles me.. you 'think' you get it... but then within 2 lines you have absolutely no clue anymore :P 21:15:49 <Celestar> Tron: economy.c:334 21:15:55 *** tokai [n=tokai@p54B81CFA.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 21:16:28 *** Trippledence [n=Trippled@cust183-dsl52.idnet.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 21:16:57 <Celestar> Tron: hm .. even that shouldn't cause it .. 21:17:16 <Celestar> Tron: but wait. one AI is taken over by another AI. 21:17:27 <Tron> mom... 21:18:19 <Tron> Celestar: the wrong tile owner is the _human_ player 21:18:29 <Celestar> Tron: maybe the human player bought the AI? 21:18:46 <Celestar> what happens to tunnelbridge_cmd.c:1086 then. 21:18:47 <Celestar> ? 21:19:04 <Celestar> and especially how did that line look in previous versions. 21:19:18 <Tron> the human player can't buy two pieces of an AI track where a train is on 21:19:55 <Tron> mom, going back to r3610 21:20:20 <Celestar> and yet, this is as good as an idea I have. 21:20:20 <black_Nightmare> hmm a question re newgrf's again....could you still use maps/servers that relay on the original vehicles still? 21:20:29 <black_Nightmare> (just checking if I was right) 21:20:43 <Tron> i remember fixing something in ChangeTileOwner_TunnelBridge 21:20:50 <Tron> but afair it was harmless 21:20:53 <Celestar> well. 21:20:59 <Celestar> maybe you assumed it was harmless? 21:21:55 <Tron> mom, checking log 21:22:27 <Tron> r3906 21:23:24 <Tron> yes, it is harmless 21:23:34 <Tron> it always thought it was a transport route under a bridge 21:23:35 <Celestar> agree. 21:23:53 <Tron> so it changed grass to grass (because it assumed it was rail) 21:24:19 <Tron> and changed the owner of water to OWNER_NONE (because it assumed it was a road) 21:25:17 <black_Nightmare> another question..if a passenger-carrying engine mentions 'powered wagon: +679hp' does that mean adding one passenger coach to this engine would give it more hp there? 21:25:26 *** RichK67 [n=RichK67@194.164.100.143] has joined #openttd 21:25:30 <Tron> the code doesn't trigger for a bridge middle part when the stuff under the bridge is not owned by the deleted player 21:25:31 <Celestar> hm what about r3837 ? 21:25:39 <Celestar> hey RichK67 21:25:43 <RichK67> heya 21:26:12 <XeryusTC> heya RichK67 :) 21:26:18 <Tron> no, the code before was cryptic, but correct 21:26:22 <MeusH> hey RichK67 21:26:28 <Celestar> Tron: my left ball tells me it has something to do with players being removed. 21:26:39 <black_Nightmare> I asked because it states that the engine itself is only 1hp meh (weird heh) 21:26:40 <RichK67> celestar - i tried to add a "terrain progress" meter, but it cant display in the middle of processing - the screen doesnt update 21:26:46 <MeusH> RichK67: were you asked about your compiler yet? :) 21:26:51 <Tron> RichK67: (eg. railtype vs. railtypemask - both describe what railtypes there are, but one uses 2x as many bits, but is far more flexible.) <-- they serve a different purpose, one is in no way a replacement for the other 21:26:55 <MeusH> Do you use VC6? 21:27:06 <RichK67> no - i use MingW32 21:27:18 <MeusH> hood 21:27:21 <MeusH> good* 21:27:52 *** Trippledence_ [n=Trippled@cust183-dsl52.idnet.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 21:27:53 <glx> RichK67: did you read my PM? 21:27:56 <RichK67> tron - i was trying to explain the difference between a simple 2 bit thingy and the 4 bit thingy... 21:27:59 <Celestar> hm Darkvater you there? 21:28:11 *** Trippledence [n=Trippled@cust183-dsl52.idnet.net] has joined #openttd 21:28:12 <Celestar> RichK67: I know. forget it. 21:28:15 <Darkvater> yeah 21:28:18 <Tron> Celestar: it can't be buying a player, because the rail route in that savegame was removed 21:28:22 <Celestar> RichK67: unless you feel like rewriting the GUI. 21:28:24 <Darkvater> playing RichK67's africa scenario :) 21:28:27 <Tron> Celestar: if you buy a player you get his rails 21:28:40 <RichK67> glx - err... hang on... i went to bed last night, and ive been out all day (& most of this evening) photographing a wedding... give me a couple of mins to catch up :) 21:28:46 <Darkvater> it's a good way of finding bugs in the game, just sit down and play; don't worry about anything else 21:28:50 <Celestar> Darkvater: do you vote for or against dropping VC6 support ? 21:28:53 <Tron> RichK67: your example was plain wrong 21:29:11 <Celestar> Tron: and what if you remove those rails later? maybe the chain of events causes it? 21:29:35 <Darkvater> Celestar: I never quite liked VC6. It is stupid and has required several workarounds to work properly. But it was always managed with a little work to keep compatible with it 21:29:56 <Tron> Celestar: if nobody buys the the AI though, the rails get removed 21:30:01 <RichK67> tron: ok, in detail, but that it was the purpose of bit-encoding vs. value encoding i was trying to explain to Mr D. so, i chose a bad example; bah!! :) 21:30:06 <Xaroth> Hm, the master server uses UDP for the game listing, correct? 21:31:00 <Darkvater> yes 21:31:13 <Tron> Celestar: yep, that AI got removed 21:31:14 <Celestar> Darkvater: but we're running into more and more and more problems. 21:31:19 <Xaroth> explains why my router's firewall is going berserk... 21:31:26 <Tron> Celestar: Check Under Sarninghall 21:31:30 <Darkvater> Celestar: such as? 21:31:34 <Celestar> Tron: then we have to identify the problem on what happens with an AI is removed. 21:31:42 <Tron> Celestar: click the sign and look at the player colour 21:31:48 <Tron> Celestar: there's no player with that colour 21:31:50 <RichK67> glx: thanks - yes, i read your one about how it could work via threading... that is (currently) about 25 miles way above my knowledge, so I think easiest thing is to put debug output in the routine, so if someone wants to see progress, they run openttd -d 0 21:32:12 <Celestar> Darkvater: 1) KUDr has quite some uglyness in YAPF due to VC6 and openttd.dsw is causing more problems as well. 21:32:27 <Darkvater> openttd.dsw NEVER caused any troubles in the last 2 years 21:32:44 <Darkvater> although I can believe the YAPF troubles 21:32:45 <RichK67> DV: did you come up with a solution to the saving-scenario-with-current-network-player-set problem? 21:32:48 <Tron> RichK67: debug level 0 is always printed 21:33:10 <Darkvater> hell, openttd.dsw is even easier to edit than openttd.sln 21:33:10 <Celestar> unless you have -DNO_DEBUG_MESSAGES 21:33:25 <Celestar> Darkvater: then sync with KUDr about the problems (= 21:33:31 <RichK67> tron: yup, but only if you run from a dos window... if you run direct, its hidden isnt it? 21:33:32 <Tron> then there is no way to print debug messages at all 21:33:46 <Darkvater> RichK67: he, yes, but haven't hd time/will/cats to fix it yet..will do so sooon 21:33:56 <Celestar> Tron: maybe if you kick the computer hard enough? 21:33:58 <RichK67> okies 21:33:59 <Darkvater> RichK67: you can redirect it to the console with 'developer 2' :) 21:34:17 <Tron> Celestar: DEBUG() is a null macro with that define 21:34:18 *** coppercore [i=copperco@1Cust5066.an3.cle11.da.uu.net] has quit [Success] 21:34:26 <RichK67> what is the format? i would like to use that 21:34:28 <Darkvater> now if you excuse me I have to get back to my network 21:34:28 <Celestar> Tron: so do we agree that something went wrong with deleting the AI? 21:34:35 <Celestar> Darkvater: have fun. 21:34:37 <Celestar> cu tomorrow 21:34:39 <Darkvater> :) 21:34:48 <Tron> Celestar: i'm not sure, maybe it happend shortly before 21:34:48 <Darkvater> tropic is haaard 21:34:50 <RichK67> lol - happy gamers :) 21:35:02 <Tron> Celestar: i'm also worried about the stray rail tiles everywhere 21:35:04 <Darkvater> I have a major headache now though 21:35:17 <Celestar> Tron: I think the problem is related ? 21:35:28 <Darkvater> I solved the first one today: giving a face to the manager (time required: 20 minutes to get the right face and not click through) 21:35:43 <Darkvater> now I'm picking a spot for my HQ...very important decision 21:35:45 <RichK67> DV - have you looked at the minimap terrain view - i sculpted the rivers even when they dont have water in... its pretty accurate too... took HOURS!! (days really) 21:36:11 <RichK67> they appear as faint trace lines - check out the congo basin :) 21:36:18 <Darkvater> yeah...pretty amazed at that africa map 21:36:21 <Darkvater> really really cool 21:36:43 <Tron> Celestar: look at the tiles NW of Upper Sinnington 21:36:44 <RichK67> when i/we sort out multi-climates, i will do the same with the USA 21:36:52 <Tron> Celestar: they have the wrong owner, too 21:36:56 <Darkvater> you could've put more oil wells in Iraq though ;p 21:37:23 <Tron> Celestar: but it's impossible there was a bridge above, because normally those tiles should have signals (but they are missing) 21:37:32 <RichK67> lol - this is a post-Bush, post-insurgency map ;) 21:37:50 <Darkvater> hehe 21:38:19 <Tron> Rubidium: ? 21:38:23 <LIIT> are theese maps available somewhere online ? Would love to see them :-) 21:38:33 <Celestar> Tron: yeah. something in that savegame is extremely broken. 21:38:35 <RichK67> we are going to HAVE to code the MacDonalds in every town over 50 pop patch ;) 21:38:37 <Darkvater> LIIT: it's bundled with the release 21:38:48 <LIIT> lol, oki 21:38:51 <Celestar> Tron: and I have never seen something remotely similar. 21:39:08 * LIIT slaps himself for not noticeing 21:39:17 <Celestar> even tho I've been sitting through hours of AI games. 21:39:32 <Celestar> and I have seen AIs to go broke in the dozens 21:39:32 <Darkvater> LIIT: although you'd better get the scenarios zip from sourceforge 21:39:45 <Darkvater> the africa and canyonero map are broken in the release 21:39:47 *** coppercore [i=copperco@1Cust6613.an1.cle11.da.uu.net] has joined #openttd 21:39:51 <LIIT> Darkvater: roger roger 21:40:05 <Celestar> Darkvater: the new ones should be in 0.4.8 as well. 21:40:09 * RichK67 blushes... damn PNGload :( 21:40:17 <Darkvater> yep 21:40:20 <Celestar> ok we have a number of "bugs" we can hardly solve for 0.4.8 21:40:41 <hylje> :< 21:40:48 <Tron> Celestar: which are? 21:40:49 <Darkvater> I had Tron asking earlier if we should put the reworked MS into 0.4.8. 21:40:55 <Celestar> Tron: 1) the one we're talking about. 21:41:00 <Celestar> Tron: 2) the combo signal problem 21:41:03 <Darkvater> it is a new feature but actually not and it does work a lot better 21:41:06 <RichK67> DV: can you test a TGP map to see if it has the same problem; i use the PNGload "VOID" tile code... so i could have same problem 21:41:25 <Darkvater> RichK67: which one? 21:41:49 <Tron> 1) i think it's some kind of hiccup, some custom patch, nuclear weapons tests, ufos, cosmic rays, dust, the usual causes for stuff breaking 21:41:50 <RichK67> any - just d/l TGP, and see if it creates a bad map 21:42:00 <Darkvater> hmm 21:42:05 <Celestar> Tron: 3) dunno about the wrongfully bad signal problem. glx has done some work. 21:42:07 <Tron> 2) the one with the two trains? 21:42:22 <RichK67> http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?p=405297#405297 21:42:28 <Darkvater> RichK67: not good 21:42:31 <RichK67> i dont know how to check it 21:42:31 <Celestar> RichK67: we NEVER compute a TileIndex from X and Y coordinates manually. 21:42:51 <RichK67> aaaaaaaaaarrrrrrrrrrggggggggghhhhhhhhhh... i created TGP when you still did..... 21:43:05 <Celestar> Tron: yes. there no way the info could propagate to required signals with the current system. 21:43:15 <LIIT> hmm, 2) is my bug, and it really annoys me *sniff* 21:43:22 <Darkvater> RichK67: http://darkvater.openttd.org/fix_map.patch < just use this to test 21:43:23 <Celestar> RichK67: I mean things like x * MapSizeX() + y 21:43:30 *** egladil [n=egladil@frukt.csbnet.se] has quit [] 21:43:37 <Tron> Celestar: it's technically no bug, the signals works exactly according to their specification 21:43:39 <RichK67> if there was a guide called "how to convert your old map accessors to the new format" - i would be happy :) 21:43:43 <Darkvater> RichK67: and to fix if you uncomment that line. Yes ugly hack, but works 21:43:46 <Celestar> LIIT: yes me too, but without a whole new signalling concept it won't work. 21:43:48 <RichK67> ty DV 21:43:48 <Celestar> Tron: agree. 21:44:00 <Celestar> Tron: it is rather annoying anyways (= 21:44:08 <Darkvater> RichK67: easier than me getting a whole new checkout, patching, compiling etc :) 21:44:10 <LIIT> Celestar: I was actually not sure if it was a bug, or if the signals really are supposed to work like that 21:44:13 <Celestar> LIIT: and technically it is no bug. 21:44:16 <RichK67> okies - thanks 21:44:27 <Celestar> LIIT: the signals are supposed to work like that (see Tron's statement) 21:44:43 <Tron> <Darkvater> it is a new feature but actually not and it does work a lot better <--- it changes the savegame format though, we have to be _very_ careful not to mess up 21:45:03 <Darkvater> damn I always forget some things 21:45:17 <Darkvater> 20:18 <Tron> we have to be _very_ careful with changes which change the savegame revision 21:45:19 <RichK67> sorry DV... i dont quite follow that patch (im not console-aware ;) ) 21:45:29 <Celestar> LIIT: and yes I agree that it has to be changed, but there is NO chance that this will happen before 0.5.0. 21:45:34 <Darkvater> RichK67: just goto the console and type 'scrollto 1' 21:45:43 <RichK67> ok 21:45:46 <Darkvater> it will check all edge-tiles for validness 21:45:53 <Darkvater> scrollto-abuse 21:45:56 <RichK67> ok-dokey :) 21:45:59 <LIIT> Celestar: okis *sniff* But it will give me something to look forward too :-D 21:46:29 <Celestar> LIIT: yeah there's tons of other stuff to look forward to in 0.5.0 (hopefully) 21:46:49 <LIIT> hehe, I look forward to 0.4.8 already :-) 21:46:54 <Celestar> hehe (= 21:47:07 <Celestar> we have a number of features we HOPE to have in 0.5.0 that will improve gameplay 21:47:09 <LIIT> But PBS will be nice aswell - and electric rails 21:47:21 <Celestar> PBS is rather 0.5.1 but it shall be seen. 21:47:45 <Celestar> Tron: tomorrow, I'll have a look at the signal problem I've had (created) today, and the reverse train on bridge problem, k? 21:47:49 <LIIT> Haven't tried PBS, switched from ttdpatch to ottd before it was added 21:48:04 *** MeusH [n=MeusH@host-ip18-138.crowley.pl] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 21:48:15 *** MeusH [n=MeusH@host-ip18-138.crowley.pl] has joined #openttd 21:49:17 <glx> Celestar: http://glx.dnsalias.net:8080/openttd/depot_signal(109).diff <-- this one works better than my previous try 21:49:21 <RichK67> DV: if scrollto 1 doesnt bomb with the patch, does that mean it is OK? 21:49:32 <Celestar> glx: I'll have that checked tomorrow. 21:49:51 <glx> Celestar: it's available only when I'm online 21:50:21 <Celestar> Tron: can you have a look at glx' patch. 21:50:26 <Celestar> ? 21:50:33 <Celestar> because I havew no time today 21:50:41 <Tron> no, page does not exist 21:50:44 <Tron> or some other kind of error 21:50:50 <Tron> it's french and has no error code 21:51:15 <RichK67> do you guys have a holiday on monday, or is it back to work for you? 21:51:18 <Darkvater> RichK67: yes if you don't get an assert it's ok 21:51:32 <glx> Tron: what does it says? 21:51:34 <RichK67> DV: fantastic - all OK then... phew.. TGP passes :) 21:51:35 <Tron> oh, there is the error code: very _tiny_ in the middle of the text 21:51:36 <Tron> 404 21:51:39 <Celestar> ok. 21:51:43 *** egladil [n=egladil@frukt.csbnet.se] has joined #openttd 21:51:46 <Celestar> I'm out. 21:52:17 <Celestar> Hackykid's gone again ? 21:52:18 <Celestar> (= 21:52:49 <glx> Tron: I renamed it http://glx.dnsalias.net:8080/openttd/depot_signal_109.diff 21:53:33 <Celestar> ok cu 21:53:40 <Tron> that just pretends depots are one-way rails 21:53:50 <Tron> which isn't the truth either 21:54:29 <Tron> (and btw: there are symbolic names for this) 21:55:50 <glx> yes I should use TRACK_BIT_X and TRACK_BIT_Y 21:57:32 <RichK67> Celestar: i dont think TGP needs a progress meter - even 2048x2048 only takes 30secs to do the TGP part... its the rest that add towns, industries etc that are the problem, and i have no idea how i can get it to display & update in the middle of the generation routine 21:58:05 *** egladil [n=egladil@frukt.csbnet.se] has quit [] 22:02:25 <Vornicus> um 22:02:53 <Vornicus> Game generation /desperately/ needs a progress meter. 30s is a /very/ long time to appear to hang someone's computer. 22:04:24 <Sacro> even a %age displayed 22:04:45 *** egladil [n=egladil@frukt.csbnet.se] has joined #openttd 22:05:18 <glx> but you can't display any window while generating 22:05:29 <RichK67> vornicus: nope, 3 mins is a looooooooooong time... TGP is positively super-speedy ;) 22:05:52 <RichK67> yup - best i can offer atm is an output in the debug channel 22:05:56 <Vornicus> 10s is a long time. 22:06:30 <Xaroth> anything slower than 'instant' is long for some people... 22:06:34 <black_Nightmare> there any reason for tenderless steam engines being randomly placed backward? (first and only engine on the train) 22:06:51 <Vornicus> especially if the thing appears to freeze. 22:07:32 <Sacro> cant you thread it? 22:08:33 <RichK67> vorn: nothing can be (currently) done about it... once the processing thread enters generation (or any other routine), the screen update thread ceases. it can be threaded i suppose, but to answer the question: No, <i>I</i> cant thread it... i havent the foggiest how to 22:09:05 *** Jenkz [n=nobody@80-192-44-21.cable.ubr05.dund.blueyonder.co.uk] has quit [] 22:09:43 <Sacro> have a look at how the saveload function does it 22:09:46 <RichK67> i actually have the routine currently updating a dialog that displays the % done in 10% steps; but the screen update isnt done until the thread is complete... so all you see is (eventually) TGP: 100% done 22:10:32 <RichK67> no thanks, sacro. i have better things to spend time on right now, than trying to understand complex C intricacies i dont understand... leave it to those that do 22:11:27 <RichK67> what i can do is add a dialog box that reports (albeit silently) the progress. someone else who understands can solve how it gets displayed 22:11:48 <Tron> RichK67: there are no different threads which hang like you're talking about 22:11:52 <Tron> it's just one thread 22:13:11 <MeusH> RichK67: It's difficult, but you could take a look and try to reproduce the map-downloading progress bar 22:13:12 <glx> RichK67: it's like I explained in the PM 22:13:23 <RichK67> ok - if i force a call to DrawDirtyWindows() or whatever it calls (code not infront of me right now)... it hangs when attempting to update the status line bar with the currency amount 22:14:06 <RichK67> since there is no balance yet defined, it bombs with a invalid string id 0 for GetString error 22:15:13 <RichK67> solving this is waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay beyond what i feel i can cope with right now... so if anyone wants to take a look at the code, and try to solve why it doesnt display, i will gladly mail it to them 22:15:47 <glx> there's only one way to solve this: put the generation in a separate thread 22:16:07 <RichK67> ok - would you do it for me? i dont know how 22:17:31 <XeryusTC> threading isn't that hard, the hard part is preventing deadlocks 22:17:33 <Darkvater> oh yeah, good job doing that... you need a backup copy of the whole _m[] struct or else it won't work 22:17:40 <Eddi|zuHause> [29.04. 23:27] <black_Nightmare> another question..if a passenger-carrying engine mentions 'powered wagon: +679hp' does that mean adding one passenger coach to this engine would give it more hp there? <- you need to read the readme of the DBSet, it explains how to use engines like the ET 87 22:17:44 <Darkvater> probably of the cities/industries/about everything else as well 22:19:06 <RichK67> DV: so is this a dead duck? I wont cry :) 22:19:27 <glx> Darkvater: why backup _m[] ? 22:19:33 <Darkvater> well not dead but needs a lot of thinking...or of course you can pause the background game in the meantime and only update the windows 22:19:41 <Darkvater> then you save yourself all the backupping :) 22:20:11 <glx> in map generation the game should be paused anyway 22:20:20 <RichK67> DV: its during terrain generation. is there any way to get the blitter to just blit the one window 22:21:53 <RichK67> that would be a neater solution 22:21:55 <Darkvater> hmm possibly such a force-update would be possible 22:22:18 <Darkvater> perhaps 22:22:45 <RichK67> thats what i tried with DrawDirtyBlocks()... but it tried to draw stuff the data wasnt ready for (and it also draws the new map screen as well :( ) 22:23:09 <Darkvater> you need to dirty the right parts :) 22:23:32 <Darkvater> but of course it's possible, even probably so that a LOT of the calls set the dirty blocks 22:23:45 <RichK67> yup they do 22:24:56 <RichK67> i think things like the status bar are drawn dirty, so that on first screen refresh everything gets painted 22:25:00 <glx> RichK67: MarkWholeScreenDirty <-- maybe this is too much 22:25:14 <Darkvater> hmm, some sets don't really work together I think..I got an oil ship that is a truck :P 22:25:36 <RichK67> glx: tried that - does nothing as the drawdirty isnt called 22:26:35 <glx> I know but if you call DrawDirtyBlocks() after MarkWholeScreenDirty() you redraw unwanted windows 22:26:48 <RichK67> as i say, simplest solution is to force blitter to repaint just the specified window 22:27:14 <glx> you could set dirty the progress window 22:27:20 *** Andrew67 [n=andrew67@206.248.80.224] has joined #openttd 22:27:45 *** Hendikins [n=wolfox@pdpc/supporter/student/Hendikins] has joined #openttd 22:27:46 <RichK67> glx: yup, current routine does: 22:27:46 <RichK67> ShowTerrainProgress(); 22:27:46 <RichK67> RedrawScreenRect(250, 250, _screen.width - 250, _screen.height - 250); 22:27:46 <RichK67> fprintf(stderr, "here 3\n"); 22:27:47 <RichK67> DrawDirtyBlocks(); 22:28:16 <RichK67> ShowTerrainProgress is the gui call, that on repaint, marks itself dirty with SetWindowDirty() 22:28:45 <RichK67> the RedrawScreen isnt really necessary, but has some interesting effects i was hoping would work. 22:29:20 <RichK67> lets face it, this is dev code... im hacking it really as i dont know what to do to make it work in the obvious way (as it does everywhere else) 22:29:56 <glx> fprintf(stderr, "here 3\n"); <-- you could use debug("here 3"); to do the same :) 22:30:38 <RichK67> argh... yeah, so i havent learnt to use debug yet... heck, i code with a notepad clone... im not exactly hi-tech ;) 22:32:04 *** ^Cartman^ [n=Eric_Car@ti100710a081-2454.bb.online.no] has quit ["Bunchie!"] 22:35:06 <Sacro> brb all 22:35:10 *** Sacro [n=Sacro@adsl-83-100-181-201.karoo.KCOM.COM] has quit [" Try HydraIRC -> http://www.hydrairc.com <-"] 22:36:17 *** Trippledence [n=Trippled@cust183-dsl52.idnet.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 22:36:57 * SimonRC suspects debug() will help in the long run anyway, e.g. to re-target debugging output to the game console 22:38:05 *** Sacro [n=Sacro@adsl-213-249-240-39.karoo.KCOM.COM] has joined #openttd 22:38:11 <RichK67> yeah - perhaps its time to go hi tech... and use an IDE 22:38:24 <glx> no need to use an IDE 22:38:26 <Sacro> cat too much hard work? 22:38:28 *** Andrew67` [n=andrew67@206.248.80.224] has joined #openttd 22:38:32 *** Andrew67` [n=andrew67@206.248.80.224] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 22:39:08 <MeusH> RichK67: wouldn't it be better if repaint gets called each actual progress change, not each tick? 22:39:42 <glx> RichK67: I just tried what you paste, assertion failed: bottom > 0 :) 22:39:47 <RichK67> thats why i would like to force it... my routine only tries to update the window when the progress ticks from 9% to 10% etc 22:41:13 *** Maedhros [n=jc@gentoo/developer/Maedhros] has quit ["sleep"] 22:42:20 <RichK67> glx: it was only a small snippet of the code; but yes, it isnt bombing in my window, or even in the redraw of my window; its some other window/dirty object that it blows up trying to draw (good excuse, huh? ;) ) 22:42:36 <glx> :) 22:44:19 <RichK67> when it pops up the invalid id 0 error for me, as i move the error window around, it repaints areas underneath.. hence me saying i think it is the uninitialised finance amount that is the problem; the status bar is halfdrawn, with only the current balance not displayed... 2+2=5 ;) 22:45:06 <RichK67> of course, this may be solved by initialising finances first, before terrain gen 22:45:14 <RichK67> but i think it does anyway... 22:47:51 <Eddi|zuHause> hmz... when chosing a platform, a train should chose one where it can go to the next target from... 22:48:32 <MeusH> 15 coal mines connected, 5 left... 22:48:45 <Sacro> Eddi|zuHause: waypoints 22:48:52 *** coppercore [i=copperco@1Cust6613.an1.cle11.da.uu.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 22:49:03 <Eddi|zuHause> that is not the point :p 22:49:22 <Eddi|zuHause> currently, i do it by leaving out that station in the orders... 22:49:46 <Eddi|zuHause> but that is only a workaround... it might fail in some situations 22:52:02 <MeusH> Eddi|zuHause: trains look for patch only to their next destination 22:52:35 <MeusH> however, it may be enchanced to look for more destinations, but it would require more computing power 22:52:44 <Eddi|zuHause> MeusH: notice the word "should"? it indicates a suggestion ;) 22:53:21 <MeusH> yeah, I agree 22:53:24 <MeusH> they should 22:53:33 <MeusH> and they may, in the future 22:54:36 <MeusH> cya 22:54:40 *** MeusH [n=MeusH@host-ip18-138.crowley.pl] has quit ["Goodbye"] 23:01:08 <Brianetta> Sacro: You went bankrupt 23:03:45 <XeryusTC> lol, how could you possibly go bankrupt? I only succeded to be broke for 3-4 months in a row 23:04:06 <XeryusTC> succeeded* 23:05:03 <Sacro> Brianetta:damn :( 23:05:19 <Sacro> XeryusTC: i had 4 trains 23:07:36 <XeryusTC> Sacro: that *should* make a profit 23:10:15 <Sacro> XeryusTC: they where 23:10:24 <Sacro> unless the economy overtook me 23:18:56 <RichK67> woohoo... found where.. just need to solve how.... screen repaint dies repainting the status bar; specifically the (null) company name 23:19:16 *** ThePizzaKing [n=thepizza@c211-28-155-182.eburwd2.vic.optusnet.com.au] has left #openttd [] 23:27:47 <RichK67> bah humbug... ok, i have got DrawDirtyBlocks to not fail (cure was not reprinting null company name when _generating_world set)... but the screen still doesnt refresh. even MarkWholeScreenDirty + DrawDirtyBlocks doesnt redraw... im beginning to think i am wasting my time here :( 23:28:40 <glx> yes :) 23:29:01 <RichK67> LOL 23:29:49 <RichK67> does the loading map progress bar MeusH mentionned only work because saveload is in a separate thread? 23:30:19 <glx> no the network code works with events 23:30:48 <glx> so map download is not a blocking thing 23:30:55 <RichK67> ok - i think i will push this back onto wish list then 23:32:30 <glx> but I don't see why you modified SelectScenarioWndProc() 23:33:37 *** ThePizzaKing [n=thepizza@c211-28-155-182.eburwd2.vic.optusnet.com.au] has joined #openttd 23:40:38 <RichK67> glx: ah... yes, it is the weird and wonderful world of _opt_newgame vs _opt. when in the ScenGen, it directly uses _opt for its game vars. when doing a New Game, it uses _opt_newgame. my updated AskResetLandscape routine (yes, i should have created a new gui rather than hijack the existing one), uses _opt_newgame (i think), so it needs to ensure that the correct vars are passed across to it. put it this way; with the code it works, without it, it doesnt 23:43:45 <glx> hmm but old lanscape generator uses opt 23:45:19 <RichK67> old landscape generator didnt have a gui panel that needs to be initialised with game variables 23:46:02 <RichK67> and the panel needs to be shown in both New Game mode and Scen Gen mode... it wasnt fun finding and debugging that stuff 23:46:30 <glx> MakeNewGame sets the correct opt values 23:48:01 <RichK67> but only in GM_NORMAL mode... not in ScenGen 23:50:28 <glx> hmm is AskResetLandscape only for newgame ? 23:51:06 <RichK67> not any more... it is used by both New Game and Scen Gen's GENRANDLAND 23:51:24 <glx> and it uses _opt 23:51:59 <glx> so it should not be a problem to use original calls (MakeNewGame() ...) 23:53:48 <glx> and you can display the tgp settings window in GenerateWorld() 23:54:29 <glx> it's the first common part between newgame an scenario AFAICS 23:54:51 <RichK67> well, when i coded it in feb, i remember i found a few really good reasons why not... but its late, and i cant remember them now... anyway, bottom line is that part of TGP works - i think... its late, can we discuss some other time 23:55:07 <glx> ok 23:56:02 <RichK67> i always prefer to reuse code if possible, so i dont think i would have turned down a gift-horse like MakeNewGame without a good reason 23:56:46 <glx> I'll try what I said to see :) 23:57:05 *** Mukke [n=Mukke@x1-6-00-13-8f-3d-00-a9.k146.webspeed.dk] has quit [] 23:58:00 <RichK67> AFAICR - the switch into TGP mode is made in GenerateLandscape which is in GenerateWorld which is in MakeNewGame... so its probably used in that path anyway 23:58:36 <glx> GenerateWorld is only called for scenario I think