Config
Log for #openttd on 7th October 2006:
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00:04:32  *** Brianetta [~brian@82-39-52-234.cable.ubr03.benw.blueyonder.co.uk] has joined #openttd
00:26:59  <SpComb> Logs: http://zapotek.paivola.fi/~terom/logs/openttd
00:26:59  <Born_Acorn> !logs
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01:02:03  <Serriaromeo_> it would be nice if we had an advanced vtol for later in the game.
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01:32:49  <Irokenics> yerh vtol lol
01:33:13  <Irokenics> something with huge passenger capacity that can land on oil rigs
01:33:24  <Irokenics> wait can ferrys dock at rigs?
01:40:31  <glx> yes they can
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06:21:55  <MeusH> hi
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06:50:23  <Irokenics> hi
06:50:54  <Irokenics> is it ever profitable to have double engine trains in the begining of the game?
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07:07:35  <PandaMojo> Irokenics: Using newgrfs and/or a higher cargo weight patch modifiers, maybe
07:07:40  <PandaMojo> !seen Celestar
07:07:43  <_42_> PandaMojo, Celestar (~Jadzia_Da@galadriel.td.mw.tum.de) was last seen quitting #openttd 4 weeks 3 days 19 hours 59 minutes ago (05.09. 11:08) stating "Quit: leaving" after spending 37 minutes there.
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07:20:06  <Wolf01> hi
07:24:50  <CIA-1> miham * r6675 /trunk/lang/ (4 files in 2 dirs):
07:24:50  <CIA-1> WebTranslator2 update to 2006-10-07 09:24:13
07:24:50  <CIA-1> bulgarian - 17 fixed by kokobongo (17)
07:24:50  <CIA-1> norwegian - 76 fixed, 511 changed by jhsoby (587)
07:24:50  <CIA-1> slovak - 46 fixed by lengyel (46)
07:24:51  <CIA-1> spanish - 3 fixed by eusebio (3)
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08:24:15  <CIA-1> bjarni * r6676 /trunk/ (depot_gui.c vehicle.c vehicle_gui.c): -Fix: [vehicle list windows] mass start/stop now works correctly in shared orders and station lists
08:39:37  <CIA-1> bjarni * r6677 /trunk/depot_gui.c:
08:39:37  <CIA-1> -Codechange r6651: [depot window] disabled the check for the correct cache in the depot window
08:39:37  <CIA-1>  Nobody had problems so far, so we can assume that InvalidateWindowData() is used everywhere where it's needed
08:39:37  <CIA-1>  The check is just disabled, not deleted so it's quick to reenable if we change some code and wants to check this again
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09:02:57  <CIA-1> bjarni * r6678 /trunk/train_gui.c: -Code cleanup: [train build window] made an enum with widget names and fixed some incorrect indents
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11:25:09  <lolman> Afternoon :)
11:25:49  <Wolf01> boys -> http://dsquake.blogspot.com/ :O
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11:42:40  <MeusH> nice Wolf01
11:42:46  <MeusH> altough I don't have DS
11:42:56  <Wolf01> http://www.dual-soft.com/doomds/about.html <- there is also doom :O
11:42:58  <MeusH> never seen it methinks
11:43:31  * MeusH googles for DS images
11:43:32  <MeusH> Ohh, actually I saw it
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11:46:50  <SpComb> and there was me thinking that I had finally found a game that was able to use multiple monitors :(
11:48:07  <Wolf01> i wonder ottd on ds
11:50:19  <ln-> how much bureaucracy is needed to get an *english*/american string changed?
11:55:03  <Tron> a proportonial amount to your misplaced cynism
11:55:56  <Wolf01> tron, magic bridges!
11:56:07  <Wolf01> peter1138, custom bridgeheads!
11:56:39  <Sacro> ln-: heh, contact MiHaMiX
11:56:47  <Wolf01> Wolf01, learn c!
11:57:03  <Tron> i don't know when/if i work on ottd agai
11:57:04  <Tron> n
11:57:20  <Wolf01> :(
12:02:29  <ln-> are you serious?
12:10:06  *** eQualizer [~lauri@dyn15-55.dsl.spy.dnainternet.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
12:11:20  <ln-> and did you somehow happen to take the word "bureaucracy" personally?
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12:12:28  <Sacro> ln-: me?
12:14:50  <ln-> not you.
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12:21:27  <webfreakz> hi
12:21:40  <Sacro> hi
12:21:45  <webfreakz> why does openttd crash here sometimes when i open the message-history window?
12:22:08  <webfreakz> Error!
12:22:08  <webfreakz> !invalid string id 0 in GetString
12:26:50  <Triffid_Hunter> webfreakz: perhaps it doesn't properly check if there are no messages?
12:28:00  <webfreakz> Triffid_Hunter: it's funny you mention that, because at the time i clicked the message window open there was a new message on the messagebar saying 'aircraft waiting in hangar'
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12:36:33  <webfreakz> ok it happened again
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13:07:43  <lolman> When does OTTD get surround sound? :P
13:08:07  <webfreakz> When does OTTD get 3d view? :P
13:08:13  <webfreakz> WHEN IT'S DONE!
13:08:16  <webfreakz> ;)
13:08:22  <lolman> LOL!
13:09:28  <Sacro> oh noes, its lolman
13:09:34  <webfreakz> lol
13:09:36  <lolman> Oh noes...
13:10:13  <eQualizer> IT'S DONE WHEN IT'S DONE!
13:10:17  <lolman> Oh, OSX finished downloading lol
13:10:34  <lolman> Need to find a DVD to burn it to now...
13:10:41  <webfreakz> downloaded OSX?
13:10:43  <hylje> hackintosh
13:10:44  <hylje> :o
13:10:46  <lolman> =D
13:10:55  <webfreakz> didn't get it when you bought your mac? :P
13:11:02  <lolman> What Mac?
13:11:04  <lolman> lol
13:11:12  <webfreakz> lol with lolman ! :D
13:11:14  <hylje> i downloaded more ram
13:11:20  <lolman> HAHA
13:11:24  <webfreakz> -_-
13:11:54  <lolman> I downloaded a Core 2 Duo...
13:11:59  <lolman> Spec sheet <g>
13:13:32  <peter1138> hi
13:13:37  <webfreakz> hi
13:13:54  * lolman hates the fact none of his music is in surround
13:13:57  <lolman> Ello peter1138
13:15:07  <Darkvater> crap, cannot run Syberia with wine :(
13:15:09  <Sacro> hmm, i spy a move to simutrans
13:15:45  <lolman> Sacro, nooooooo
13:16:30  <Sacro> but it has 3rd/4th rail support...
13:17:02  <lolman> Code it into OTTD ;-)
13:17:12  <lolman> And NOOOOOO!!!!!
13:17:25  <Sacro> heh, "this is some sort of brain enhancer... in france they call it a guillatine"
13:17:26  <lolman> Windows Update is fecked here! NOOOOO!!!
13:17:31  <peter1138> wouldn't be too hard
13:17:54  <Sacro> peter1138: i think Bjarni said it'd just need the grfs doing, and a new railtype adding
13:18:07  <lolman> The french HAVE brains to enhance?!?!
13:18:13  <peter1138> Sacro: right
13:18:20  <peter1138> Sacro: so can you draw?
13:18:33  <Sacro> peter1138: havent you seen my sub-surface underground stock?
13:18:50  <webfreakz> bjarni?
13:18:52  <Bjarni> I said what about grf?
13:18:54  <peter1138> no
13:18:59  <Sacro> http://www.tt-forums.net//files/london_transport_6th_may_1966_242.png
13:19:03  <Sacro> my A stock
13:19:42  <Sacro> original colours... i also did refurb'd
13:20:14  <lolman> £2bill in 1966?
13:20:20  <peter1138> hmm
13:20:25  <peter1138> so can you draw 3rd/4th rail?
13:20:50  <Sacro> lolman: used cheats, its for replicating the London Underground in OTTD
13:20:56  <Sacro> peter1138: i can have a good go
13:20:57  <hylje> what would a 3rd/4th rail be
13:21:05  <lolman> Sacro, was wondering ;-)
13:21:54  <Darkvater> hmm, my perl is a bit rusty. If I have a regexp like $_ =~ /$_[1]\: (.*)/;
13:22:05  <Darkvater> and then do something like: $a =  or die "blaaa";
13:22:10  <Darkvater> it dies if  is 0 :(
13:22:17  <Darkvater> (the number zero)
13:22:24  <Sacro> hylje: electrification without overhead wires
13:22:32  <hylje> :o
13:22:42  <Darkvater> it should only die when the the saved regexp doesn't exist, is null
13:22:43  <Darkvater> ideas?
13:23:06  <hylje> hmm
13:23:17  <hylje> perl thinks 0 is false
13:23:23  <peter1138> well it is
13:23:30  <peter1138> you need to test the regexp, not the assignment
13:23:41  <peter1138> (how you do that, i haven't the foggiest)
13:24:10  <Darkvater> he, thanks peter1138 ;p
13:24:23  <peter1138> useful as ever :D
13:24:35  <Darkvater> I love you :>
13:25:53  <Darkvater> hmm if I do if ($_ =~ /$_[1]\: (.*)/) << would that error out  properly?
13:27:13  <Tron> you probably want the || die in the match line
13:27:45  <Darkvater> good, even better.. I was doing else
13:27:52  * Darkvater shakes fists at perl
13:29:52  * Sacro downloads simutrans
13:36:30  <webfreakz> http://video.google.nl/videoplay?docid=-1065100896569041740
13:36:31  <webfreakz> :D
13:38:43  <Sacro> hmm, i have a road, but no vehicles...
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13:58:27  <CIA-1> bjarni * r6679 /trunk/ (lang/english.txt train_gui.c window.h):
13:58:27  <CIA-1> -Feature: [train build window] added filter for wagons, engines or both in the display
13:58:27  <CIA-1> -Codechange: [train build window] to get rid of a really ugly hack, the train build list is now generated in one loop and stored in an array
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14:30:16  <CIA-1> bjarni * r6680 /trunk/ (engine.c functions.h train_gui.c window.c window.h): -Codechange r6679: [train build window] only generate the list when the window data is invalidated or the window is generated, not on each redraw
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14:45:36  <MeusH> Darkvater: tile measurement! :)
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14:53:29  <peter1138> newtilemeasurement
14:57:31  <MeusH> why new?
14:57:50  <ln-> does size matter?
14:58:03  <MeusH> no
14:58:13  <MeusH> (volume does, in case you check my things)
15:04:33  <CIA-1> bjarni * r6681 /trunk/ (engine.c train_gui.c):
15:04:33  <CIA-1> -Fix: when vehicles never expire they will stay at peak reliability instead of the lowest to make them useful even when old
15:04:33  <CIA-1> -Fix: when retiring an engine design, invalidate the build windows and invalidate the build window data
15:04:33  <CIA-1> -Fix: mark build windows dirty when engine reliability changes
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15:15:27  <Sacro> god im bored
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15:18:59  <MeusH> me too
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16:17:54  <Sacro> jonty-comp!
16:18:02  <jonty-comp> lies
16:18:29  <Sacro> :o
16:29:08  <Sacro> !seen lolman
16:29:10  <_42_> Sacro, lolman (~admin@cpc2-leds2-0-0-cust888.leed.cable.ntl.com) was last seen quitting #openttd 1 hour 43 minutes ago (07.10. 14:45) stating "" after spending 2 hours 13 minutes there.
16:29:17  <Sacro> !seen aol
16:29:18  <_42_> Sacro, aol? hmm... I'm trying to remember... maybe... I'm not sure... no. I don't remember aol.
16:30:29  <Wolf01> !seen intelligence_in_sacro
16:30:30  <_42_> Wolf01, Hum... don't you think this nick is a bit long? ^_^
16:30:46  * Wolf01 kicks _42_
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16:50:17  <wanze> what map do you guys play?
16:53:07  <Sacro> wanze: random
16:53:16  <wanze> okay
16:53:20  <wanze> thanks
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17:08:02  <MeusH> Darkvater, hi
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17:28:02  <peter1138> hmm
17:33:07  <MeusH> my cat cut my wrist vein :o
17:33:20  <MeusH> fuck
17:33:22  <MeusH> i'm bleeding
17:33:23  <MeusH> cu
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17:33:36  <Sacro> hmm, an emo with a pet...
17:36:41  <CIA-1> miham * r6682 /trunk/lang/ (danish.txt french.txt hungarian.txt polish.txt):
17:36:41  <CIA-1> WebTranslator2 update to 2006-10-07 19:35:57
17:36:41  <CIA-1> danish - 7 fixed, 44 changed by ThomasA (51)
17:36:41  <CIA-1> french - 6 fixed by glx (6)
17:36:41  <CIA-1> hungarian - 6 fixed by miham (6)
17:36:43  <CIA-1> polish - 6 fixed by meush (6)
17:36:50  <eleusis> hahaha
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17:38:07  <Sacro> lws1984!
17:38:23  <lws1984> Sacro!
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17:38:37  <eleusis> people!
17:38:47  <Sacro> eleusis!
17:38:56  <Sacro> Wolf01!
17:39:01  <eleusis> me!
17:39:09  <Sacro> you!
17:39:26  <eleusis> :D
17:39:41  <Wolf01> hi
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17:49:46  <MeusH> back
17:50:08  <Sacro> MeusH: you ok?
17:50:52  *** Darkscythe [~mike@84-245-30-97.dsl.cambrium.nl] has quit []
17:50:54  <MeusH> I hope so
17:51:05  <MeusH> fortunatelly the scar is on the skin, and vein is allright
17:51:06  <MeusH> I think
17:51:12  <MeusH> I'm not bleeding that much...
17:51:47  <MeusH> it just doesn't look nice :)
17:53:16  <Sacro> scars usually dont
17:53:28  <MeusH> bad word, it's a wound
17:53:32  <MeusH> ohh, nevermind
17:53:49  <MeusH> it'll be ok. I was just scared because it's right over the vein
17:53:57  <ln-> think about all the bacteria that may be circulating in your veins right now.
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17:54:36  <MeusH> :o
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18:01:00  <MeusH> goodnight
18:01:04  <MeusH> I'm off the party :)
18:01:16  <MeusH> I'll tell peeps that wound is because of shaving accident :D
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18:18:44  <Sacro> shaving your arm...?
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18:43:14  <chu_> hi
18:43:59  *** Trenskow [~outlet@85.218.142.227] has joined #openttd
18:44:16  <chu_> wouln't it be better, if the new filter in the train build window be just below the title bar of that window
18:44:32  <chu_> so many buttons at the bottom of the window is rather confusing
18:48:41  *** Neonox_ is now known as Neonox
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19:03:03  <Bjarni> chu_: stop leaving when I want to talk to you
19:03:12  <Bjarni> it would make conversation easier ;)
19:04:21  <Bjarni> <chu_>	wouln't it be better, if the new filter in the train build window be just below the title bar of that window <-- hmm... one moment. I will upload a screenshot of what the window looks like in my next patch
19:06:15  *** Sacro [~ben@adsl-213-249-225-191.karoo.KCOM.COM] has joined #openttd
19:06:39  <Bjarni> http://devs.openttd.org/~bjarni/build_window.png
19:07:00  <hylje> wow
19:07:05  <hylje> then some spotlight sweetness
19:07:17  <Bjarni> it's not done yet
19:07:35  <Bjarni> the assending/decending thing is not working yet
19:07:55  <Bjarni> and I lack strings
19:08:15  <Bjarni> and currently I can only sort by EngineID (like the trunk does now) and price
19:08:21  *** Osai^b4tH is now known as Osai^city
19:08:47  <Gonozal_VIII> you shouldn't talk about your underwear in a public channel
19:09:09  <Bjarni> ...
19:09:17  <Bjarni> wtf are you talking about?
19:09:36  <Gonozal_VIII> your lack of strings
19:10:01  <ln-> Gonozal_VIII: it's completely normal that a man does not have strings.
19:10:24  <Sacro> and your ascending/descending thing not working...
19:10:37  <Gonozal_VIII> but it's not that normal to complain about it
19:10:45  <Bjarni> http://devs.openttd.org/~bjarni/build_window2.png
19:10:52  <Bjarni> the other sort option ;)
19:11:08  * Bjarni hits Gonozal_VIII
19:11:30  <Bjarni> I'm talking about code, not about myself
19:12:06  <Bjarni> back to the real topic here: is it confusing with all those buttons and the button placements?
19:12:15  <Gonozal_VIII> as i am unable to code, i tried the being funny thing instead
19:12:40  *** Wolf01 is now known as Wolf01|AWAY
19:13:11  <Bjarni> well, you manage to get feedback, but that's like the comedian, who gets feedback by people thowing tomatoes at him :P
19:13:43  <Gonozal_VIII> any feedback is good feedback.. sort of
19:14:01  <Bjarni> well
19:14:12  <Bjarni> in that case, I would like some feedback on my question
19:14:27  <Bjarni> 	<Bjarni>	back to the real topic here: is it confusing with all those buttons and the button placements?
19:14:29  <Gonozal_VIII> looks perfectly clear to me
19:15:02  <Bjarni> yeah, me too
19:15:33  <Bjarni> it will need a string in the sort by widget, but that's on the TODO list
19:18:31  <chu_> Bjarni: perhaps you could replace those 3 buttons with 3 icon-buttons - like in the station-list-widget
19:18:53  <chu_> then those 3 icon-buttons would fit into the same row as the sort-button
19:21:01  <Bjarni> hmm
19:21:03  <Bjarni> maybe
19:21:30  <chu_> it would look a lot better and be consistent with other windows
19:22:19  <Bjarni> actually it would not be consistent with the other windows as the locomotive icon means pressing it will open a vehicle list window
19:22:43  <chu_> yes you are right
19:22:56  <chu_> but at the moment it wast's a lot of space
19:23:01  <chu_> and it's not really useable
19:23:36  <Bjarni> anyway chu_: try to create an account on bugs.openttd.org and tell MiHaMiX what goes wrong
19:23:44  <Bjarni> also I can make an account for you if needed
19:23:55  <chu_> when selection wagons or engines, one has to move the mouse all the way down to the buttons and then back to the list
19:24:08  <chu_> i think i got an email from the bug-tracker recently
19:24:26  <chu_> iirc i have an account in the meantime
19:24:41  <chu_> comercials are over - back to tv ;-)
19:24:49  <Bjarni> ...
19:24:58  <Gonozal_VIII> that's a matter of personal taste
19:25:34  <Bjarni> so you are saying that we are just better than the commercials so you used us to kill your time or ?
19:28:00  <Gonozal_VIII> both is preselected?
19:28:01  <Sacro> Bjarni: heh, i do
19:32:18  <Bjarni> yeah, I had to pick one of them, so I decided to pick the one, that gives the current behaviour
19:33:15  <Gonozal_VIII> good
19:34:12  <Bjarni> hurrah, I just added a string and wrote {BLACK} and then I noticed that the background turns black when it's selected, so it should be {WHITE}
19:34:19  <Bjarni> now it compiles all over :/
19:36:45  <Gonozal_VIII> i don't know what it's all about with those {} but i'm not surprised that "black" makes something turn black :-)
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19:55:17  <chu_> Bjarni: in fact i was translating strings when i noticed the 3 new buttons
19:55:43  <chu_> and before i forgot it, i just wanted to tell you what i think of them
19:58:01  <Gonozal_VIII> there should be a 1337 lang file
19:58:11  <peter1138> make one
19:58:35  <Sacro> Gonozal_VIII: heh, get MiHaMiX to add it
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20:10:54  <Sacro> lws1984!
20:10:57  <lws1984> Sacro!
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20:14:03  <Bjarni> hmm
20:14:12  <Bjarni> EngineID, cost, power, speed
20:14:17  <Bjarni> what else to sort for?
20:15:21  *** BJH2 [~chatzilla@e176115095.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
20:16:08  <Bjarni> ahh, intro date
20:16:39  <Bjarni> Maybe I should just sort by intro date instead of EngineID
20:16:44  <Sacro> Bjarni: name?
20:16:52  <Bjarni> hmm
20:16:58  <Bjarni> how to sort strings....
20:17:06  * Bjarni will think about that one
20:19:23  * Bjarni stops wondering and starts to steal name sorting code from vehicle list sorting
20:19:57  <Bjarni> it works, so why try to recreate it ;)
20:22:38  <Sacro> heh, clever
20:23:05  <Sacro> Bjarni: can you sort by running costs?
20:23:42  <Bjarni> not yet ;)
20:23:53  <wanze> does anybody know an easy map wtih hell lot of factories and stuff so you can make a lot of big train networks?
20:24:29  <Bjarni> I'm sure people on the forum might take a look at it
20:25:51  <Bjarni> hmm
20:26:08  <Bjarni> I think I recall somebody requesting power/running cost radio sorting
20:26:18  <Bjarni> anything else?
20:26:33  <Bjarni> it's not useful to sort by say weight, right?
20:26:41  <Sacro> hmm... it might be with TE
20:26:46  <Sacro> but then you'd use power/weight sorting
20:27:12  <Bjarni> reliability
20:28:01  <Bjarni> will anybody use sorting by reliability?
20:28:02  <Sacro> hmm, dunno if its used much
20:28:37  <Serriaromeo> wanze, just create a map,  use the create senario option, and you can make the map anything you want it to be.
20:29:00  <Bjarni> life length.... not really useful now that we got autoreplace and autorenew
20:29:05  <peter1138> heh
20:29:19  <peter1138> reliability means nothing when everyone turns breakdowns off
20:29:39  <Bjarni> I never turn breakdowns off
20:30:21  <peter1138> i do, they're too frequent
20:30:35  <Bjarni> yeah
20:30:53  <Bjarni> eventually I think I will redo the whole breakdown system
20:31:20  *** Rens2Sea [~Rens2Sea@213.211.185.168] has joined #openttd
20:31:42  <CIA-1> KUDr * r6683 /trunk/train_gui.c: -Fix: '<' signed unsigned mismatch produced by VC8
20:32:54  <wanze> Serriaromeo: would be easier if somebody already has
20:33:20  <Born_Acorn> Breakdowns rarely happen even with 150 year old steam engines.
20:33:30  <Born_Acorn> in  RL, at least.
20:34:44  <Sacro> :o KUDr COMMITAGE :D
20:35:08  <Sacro> Born_Acorn: how about we stop breakdowns for "Wrong type of snow"
20:35:54  <Serriaromeo> i would love to see some things like a cross between the disaters and the breakdowns,  i.e. accidents like derailments, or loading accidents that osha and dot would shut a station down to ivestigate for a few weeks/months , or what ever the revelant body is for europe.
20:36:01  * peter1138 curses Bjarni for changing all english.txt
20:36:05  <peter1138> -all
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20:40:21  <Nigel> anyone know when passenger destinations will be added to miniin?
20:40:57  <peter1138> or even if...
20:41:06  <Sacro> Nigel: when a) RichK returns, or when b) someone else with commit rights adds it
20:41:25  <peter1138> well, it's richk's 'little' project
20:41:52  <Sacro> ooh, link'd
20:43:19  <hylje> feature request: scriptable livery colors
20:43:35  <hylje> or rather "change the livery every 5 seconds"
20:51:00  <Bjarni> *	peter1138 curses Bjarni for changing all english.txt <-- I got great news for you. I got a modified english.txt in my local copy
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20:57:41  <lws1984> question, how do you comment out a .grf file in openttd.cfg?
20:58:12  <hylje> #
20:58:29  <lws1984> ah, figures it's something obvious
20:58:30  <lws1984> thanks
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21:24:37  <Serriaromeo> dist_local_authority = 20 <- does anybody know what this setting does,  minin, 6500
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21:37:21  <Bjarni> I guess it's tell how far from a town centre the town cares for tree cutting and so on
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21:38:42  <Bjarni> something tells me that my newly designed name sorter is not that good
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21:39:09  <Bjarni> it's consistent, but it looks a bit random how it sorts
21:39:45  <Bjarni> 75, 38, 18, 01, 85, 45, 05
21:39:56  <Bjarni> to me, that's not sorted in assending order
21:40:55  <Gonozal_VIII> maybe the randomness ascends through the numbers
21:41:59  <Gonozal_VIII> 05 is obviously much more random than 75
21:45:51  *** Zr40 [~Zirconium@zr40.xs4all.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
21:47:00  <Bjarni> ahh, now I know what went wrong
21:47:31  <Bjarni> I switched two strings so when it said it sorted by name, it actually sorted by the date the engine were designed in
21:48:04  <Bjarni> hence the consistent, but apparently random order of strings
21:48:34  <Bjarni> now that I figured that out, I will try to restore my function and kill all debug code
21:49:00  <Sacro> lol
21:50:53  <Bjarni> and now it works again
21:53:25  <peter1138> o_O
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22:04:43  <Sacro> Bjarni: we might have an endian issue here
22:05:39  <Bjarni> :(
22:06:30  <Sacro> yup
22:07:07  <lws1984> actually, it's my issue, but for some reason I can't connect to Peter's server, I keep gettting a "connection  lost" error
22:07:51  <Bjarni> networking should transmit everything byte by byte to avoid endian issues
22:08:11  <peter1138> yeah, but afterwards...
22:08:20  <lws1984> aye, it's after I connect
22:08:21  *** Progman [~progman@p5091D74B.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
22:08:28  <Bjarni> ok
22:08:31  <Bjarni> hmm
22:08:31  <lws1984> I get the map, but it freezes for about 10 seconds
22:08:44  <lws1984> then it knocks me off with either "connection lost" or "sync failed"
22:08:48  <Bjarni> clean nightly build?
22:08:54  <lws1984> aye, just downloaded the latest
22:09:01  <Bjarni> hmm
22:09:01  *** ln- [lauri@192.194.168.130] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
22:09:13  <Bjarni> sync can very well be an endian issue
22:09:40  <Bjarni> but... I don't know where to start looking
22:09:42  <peter1138> could be endian, could be savegame problem, could be newgrf calculation issue
22:10:13  <peter1138> hmm, it's not syaing it's a desync though
22:10:24  <lws1984> well, only got sync failed once
22:10:31  <lws1984> about.. eh, 5 times or so, wasn't it?
22:10:40  <lws1984> it was connection lost for all times except one
22:10:44  <Bjarni> that reminds me of a game where I desynced at a certain time each time. In the end, ludde wrote a patch to save an uncompressed savegame each tick and then we compared md5 and found the first savegame, that was different
22:10:57  <Bjarni> turned out that we didn't handle an overflow identically
22:10:59  <peter1138> Client #27 is dropped because it took longer than 500 ticks for him to join
22:11:14  <lws1984> i assume i'm client #27?
22:11:17  <peter1138> yeah
22:11:25  <lws1984> yay me.
22:11:31  <Bjarni> maybe you lack too much
22:11:35  <lws1984> lack?
22:11:35  <Sacro> ooh, just popped me knee out
22:11:37  <peter1138> lag
22:11:39  <Bjarni> lag
22:11:40  <lws1984> aah
22:11:48  <peter1138> what speed is your connection?
22:11:53  <lws1984> 5mbps
22:12:01  <Bjarni> try to ping peter
22:12:19  <peter1138> o_O
22:12:23  <peter1138> should be plenty
22:12:23  <lws1984> what??
22:12:24  <Prof_Frink> lws1984: 200s between individual bits? That'd be the problem.
22:12:32  * peter1138 ups it to 1000 ticks
22:12:34  <peter1138> try again
22:12:35  <lws1984> 118:12 [oftc] CTCP PING reply from peter1138:
22:12:42  <lws1984> nothing after the number!
22:12:44  <lws1984> ah, i'll try then
22:12:58  <lws1984> err. name, not number :p
22:13:27  <lws1984> also, on this one, OpenTTD keeps freezing randomly for some reason
22:13:38  <lws1984> for only about a second or 4
22:13:58  <Bjarni> the game freezes when it waits for the server to say ok to move on to next tick
22:14:06  <Bjarni> that's how speed is kept in sync
22:14:31  <lws1984> no, at the start screen
22:14:44  <Bjarni> the server sends a package with "ok to proceed and execute the following commands"
22:14:51  <Bjarni> or something like that
22:15:58  <Bjarni> lws1984: it takes me 130 ms to ping you
22:16:07  <Bjarni> and 70 ms to peter1138
22:16:08  <lws1984> godamnit... Messgae: "Network-Game connection lost"
22:16:18  <peter1138> Client #30 is dropped because it took longer than 1000 ticks for him to join
22:16:21  <peter1138> o_O
22:16:33  <lws1984> O_o
22:16:36  <Bjarni> enable pause while joining
22:16:44  <peter1138> it is
22:16:49  <Bjarni> ...
22:16:52  <peter1138> *** Lewis has joined the game
22:16:52  <peter1138> [All] Server: Game paused (incoming client)
22:16:52  <peter1138> Client #30 is dropped because it took longer than 1000 ticks for him to join
22:16:52  <peter1138> dbg: [NET] Closed client connection
22:16:52  <peter1138> *** Lewis has left the game (connection lost)
22:16:54  <peter1138> [All] Server: Game unpaused
22:16:59  <lws1984> i think it is, I got a "Game paused: new client joining" before it left
22:17:18  <Bjarni> odd
22:17:32  <peter1138> i upped it to 5000, but i suspect there'll be no effect
22:17:37  * lws1984 tries
22:17:39  <peter1138> 5000 ticks is ... alot
22:17:57  <Bjarni> it's not a huge map, is it?
22:17:58  <lws1984> that's 5000 ms, right?
22:18:16  <peter1138> Bjarni: no... 512x256
22:18:21  <lws1984> hmm.. just thinking.. could the fact that i'm playing on a 600Mhz iBook have any effect on anything?
22:18:29  <peter1138> not 5000ms, 5000 ticks
22:18:35  <lws1984> how long's a tick?
22:18:36  <peter1138> where a tick is 30ms
22:18:39  <lws1984> aah
22:18:52  <peter1138> = 150s? heh
22:18:57  <Bjarni> it could be due to the low CPU power
22:19:02  <Bjarni> but still...
22:19:15  <peter1138> shouldn't be, it's only at the start and there's not much going on
22:19:17  <Bjarni> joining should not take that long
22:19:20  <lws1984> i've played multiplayer before on this machine without any issues
22:19:21  <peter1138> mine's only 800MHz
22:19:23  <lws1984> in older versions
22:20:09  <Bjarni> which revision is the nightly build?
22:20:16  <lws1984> 6682
22:21:01  * Bjarni decides to compile a nightly build and try to join
22:21:09  <Bjarni> what newgrf stuff?
22:21:50  <peter1138> http://fuzzle.org/o/
22:21:57  <peter1138> that stuff
22:22:08  *** Zr40_ [~Zirconium@zr40.xs4all.nl] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
22:22:26  <lws1984> ooh, I made it in!
22:22:29  <lws1984> but it's frozen...
22:22:39  <peter1138> then kicked out again
22:22:39  <lws1984> aargh
22:22:41  <lws1984> aye
22:22:52  <lws1984> well, I made it in for a bit longer :p
22:22:58  <peter1138> [210349] Client #32 is slow, try increasing *net_frame_freq to a higher value!
22:22:58  <peter1138> Client #32 is dropped because the client did not respond for more than 4 game-days
22:23:05  <peter1138> you say it pauses in the intro screen...
22:23:12  <lws1984> aye
22:23:23  <lws1984> also can't move the pointer for when it's frozen
22:23:41  <peter1138> everything else runs fine at that time?
22:23:45  <peter1138> (or is it fullscreen..)
22:23:49  <lws1984> no, not fulscreen
22:23:56  <lws1984> and when i'm paused, everything else is fine
22:24:00  <peter1138> this seems like a general issue rather than network related
22:24:01  *** ln- [lauri@ksenos.fi] has joined #openttd
22:24:06  <lws1984> heck, was just paused when i was typing this
22:30:22  *** Mucht [~Mucht@chello080109200215.3.sc-graz.chello.at] has joined #openttd
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22:32:06  <Bjarni> so whatever the issue is, it appears not to be an endian issue
22:32:14  <Bjarni> it works just fine for me
22:33:05  <Bjarni> lws1984: OSX 10.4 or 10.3?
22:33:20  <lws1984> 10.4.8
22:33:31  <Bjarni> ok, that ruled out that issue as well
22:34:10  <Bjarni> try to start a singleplayer game  @ 64x64
22:34:15  <Bjarni> any pauses?
22:34:15  <lws1984> who, me?
22:34:18  *** Trenskow [~outlet@85.218.142.227] has quit [Quit: Read error: Connection reset by sortepeer]
22:34:21  <lws1984> :p duh
22:34:22  <lws1984> k then
22:34:27  <Bjarni> yeah you with the issue :P
22:34:31  <lws1984> just random nap?
22:34:32  <lws1984> map, even
22:34:35  <Bjarni> yes
22:34:55  <Bjarni> just to see if it works without pauses
22:35:05  *** tokai [~tokai@p54B80CCD.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #openttd
22:35:06  *** mode/#openttd [+v tokai] by ChanServ
22:35:06  <lws1984> well, i'm getting pauses in the dialog box..
22:35:13  *** Trenskow [~outlet@85.218.142.227] has joined #openttd
22:35:13  <Bjarni> ...
22:35:31  <Bjarni> somehow that sounds wrong
22:35:54  <Bjarni> and you are not out of swap space or something like that?
22:35:59  <lws1984> ...then this'll sound really wrong
22:36:02  <lws1984> it just crashed
22:36:05  <lws1984> hmm.. notsure
22:36:12  <lws1984> i'll check
22:37:15  <lws1984> off to dinner, be back later
22:40:34  *** Maedhros [~jc@host86-137-68-253.range86-137.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Quit: leaving]
22:40:48  <peter1138> o_O
22:41:18  <Bjarni> I left on purpose ;)
22:41:28  <Bjarni> went back to coding
22:41:55  <Bjarni> but yeah, he tried to join a game and now he left for dinner
22:42:27  <Bjarni> logically he would have joined if it just worked, started building a little and then left for dinner
22:43:56  *** Trenskow [~outlet@85.218.142.227] has quit [Quit: Read error: Connection reset by sortepeer]
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22:58:30  <CIA-1> bjarni * r6684 /trunk/ (lang/english.txt train_gui.c window.h): -Feature: [train build window] added sorting options for the engines
22:59:51  *** Sacro [~ben@adsl-83-100-141-177.karoo.KCOM.COM] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
23:01:48  *** phrands [~ko@0x57313fc9.esnxx5.adsl-dhcp.tele.dk] has joined #openttd
23:02:08  <phrands> Hello..
23:02:50  <phrands> I might be dumb or something, but how do i make a one way signal lights?
23:03:35  <peter1138> use the signal tool on an existing signal
23:05:04  *** lws1984 [~lwslade@ip68-9-157-1.ri.ri.cox.net] has joined #openttd
23:05:44  <phrands> I don't seem to have a signal tool.. It's in a box left of the track tool right?
23:05:48  *** Frostregen_ [SADDAM@dslb-084-058-150-180.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #openttd
23:06:05  <peter1138> if you can place signals you have a signal tool...
23:06:06  <lws1984> Bjarni or peter1138 still here?
23:06:33  <peter1138> yes but not much longer
23:06:43  <phrands> Just the regular signal tool?
23:07:05  <peter1138> eys
23:07:09  <peter1138> ... yes
23:07:21  <peter1138> in fact, i'm not here any more
23:07:36  <lws1984> :p
23:07:37  <lws1984> bye
23:07:44  <phrands> Arh okay.. Thanks alot peter! ;)
23:08:11  <Bjarni> <lws1984>	Bjarni or peter1138 still here? <-- no, I'm all over here
23:08:17  <Bjarni> on the other side of the Atlantic
23:08:24  <lws1984> :p
23:08:37  *** Sacro [~ben@adsl-83-100-141-177.karoo.KCOM.COM] has joined #openttd
23:11:12  <Wolf01|AWAY> 'night all
23:11:15  *** Wolf01|AWAY [~wolf01@host159-232-dynamic.9-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit []
23:13:11  *** Frostregen [SADDAM@dslb-084-058-185-203.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
23:13:28  *** Frostregen_ is now known as Frostregen
23:13:57  <lws1984> Bjarni, thought of anything yet? just wondering
23:14:19  <Bjarni> yeah
23:14:43  <Bjarni> you found a filesharing application and went crazy and filled your HD, so there is no swap space left
23:14:56  <lws1984> negative :p
23:15:08  <lws1984> i've got 9.24 GB available on a 10GB drive
23:15:35  <Bjarni> err
23:15:45  <Bjarni> you got an OS of less than a GB?
23:16:01  <lws1984> what?
23:16:10  <lws1984> nope
23:16:25  <Bjarni> by default the swap space is on the system partition
23:16:53  <lws1984> aye, but 9.24 GB should be enough, shouldn't it?
23:17:02  <Bjarni> it should
23:17:19  <lws1984> that's what I thought
23:17:45  <Bjarni> but if it's a 10 GB drive and it's the OS partition, then it sounds wrong that it got 9,24 GB free
23:17:55  <lws1984> well, there's only one partition
23:18:05  <lws1984> wait.. did I say 10 GB?
23:18:10  <lws1984> oh stupid stupid me
23:18:13  <lws1984> it's 20 GB!
23:18:23  <Bjarni> then it makes more sense :)
23:18:27  <lws1984> true
23:18:34  <lws1984> but 9.24 should still be more than enough
23:19:30  <Bjarni> then the problem is something else
23:19:41  <Bjarni> (wow, what an insight!)
23:19:43  <lws1984> aye, I figured as much
23:19:54  <lws1984> Great teachings from Our Father of the Holy Port, Bjarni
23:20:11  <Bjarni> try to open activity monitor and place it somewhere where you can see it
23:20:22  <Bjarni> kill all activity that you do not need
23:20:26  <Bjarni> NOT IRC!!!!
23:20:26  *** Spoco [Spoco@dsl-083-102-036-103.lohjanpuhelin.fi] has quit []
23:20:26  <lws1984> k then
23:20:32  <lws1984> no, of cousre not IRC
23:20:33  <lws1984> :p
23:20:54  <Bjarni> somebody did that in a case like this and ended up on top 100 on bash.org
23:21:02  <lws1984> teehee
23:21:11  <lws1984> k, activity monitor open..
23:21:18  <lws1984> killing all non-essential processes now
23:21:40  <Bjarni> once you are done with that, set it so you get CPU history
23:21:59  <Bjarni> then start OpenTTD in window mode and see if there is a connection between CPU load and the pauses
23:22:06  <lws1984> ok then
23:22:28  <mikk36> hey :)
23:22:35  <Bjarni> I'm not sure how to act on the answer to that one yet, but it's always a good place to start
23:22:46  <Bjarni> check if the CPU might be the bottleneck
23:22:53  <lws1984> k, OpenTTD loading..
23:22:59  <lws1984> full capacity, frozen now
23:23:24  <lws1984> ok, and it's unfreezing itself at.. about..94 precent or so
23:23:32  <Bjarni> actually the most important part is to check for freezes when it's not overloaded
23:24:10  <Bjarni> disable full animation to free some (a lot) of CPU cycles when drawing
23:24:12  <lws1984> hmm.. only freezes at 100%
23:24:24  <lws1984> k then, disactivating
23:24:30  <lws1984> wait.. how do you do that from the main screen?
23:24:38  <lws1984> or should I try a random game again
23:24:40  <lws1984> ?
23:24:49  <Bjarni> right now the goal is to figure out why it uses so much CPU power
23:24:52  <Bjarni> new game
23:24:55  <Bjarni> just a small one
23:24:55  <lws1984> k then
23:25:31  <lws1984> hmm. .. here it's starting the freeze at 100% then going down to 70% or so before unfreezing
23:25:48  <Bjarni> hmm
23:26:09  <Bjarni> no, I didn't commit anything with such a massive slowdown lately
23:27:00  <lws1984> wtf??
23:27:06  <lws1984> I'm on a 64x64 map
23:27:08  <lws1984> no  freezing!
23:27:15  <lws1984> i'm building stations and railways and such
23:27:17  <lws1984> no freezes
23:27:36  <Bjarni> what is the CPU load?
23:27:54  <lws1984> 73 percent
23:28:14  <lws1984> it's hovering around 70-75%
23:28:39  <mikk36> what cpu ???
23:28:50  <lws1984> PowerPC G3, 600 Mhz
23:28:54  <mikk36> uhm, ok
23:29:04  <lws1984> Mac ;)
23:30:13  <mikk36> ya
23:30:20  <mikk36> running what ?
23:30:26  <mikk36> macos or smth else ?
23:30:33  <lws1984> MacOS X 10.4
23:30:38  <mikk36> 8|
23:30:46  <lws1984> aye, 10.4.8
23:30:52  <mikk36> enough fast for that ?
23:31:01  <lws1984> well, it used to work in earlier revisions
23:31:23  <Bjarni> lws1984: DCC
23:32:41  <lws1984> Bjarni: 19:32 DCC no file offered by Bjarni
23:32:44  <lws1984> ???
23:32:49  <Bjarni> :(
23:32:53  <lws1984> try it again
23:33:01  <lws1984> 19:32 [oftc] DCC can't connect to 80.164.108.22 port 49469
23:33:02  <lws1984> bugger
23:33:24  <Bjarni> maybe my router blocks it
23:33:35  * Bjarni decides on ftp instead
23:33:51  <lws1984> you got MSN or something?
23:33:58  <Bjarni> basically my idea is to make you try the binary, that should be the same, but isn't because I compiled it
23:33:59  <lws1984> aah, ftp might work
23:34:04  <lws1984> hmmmm
23:34:05  <lws1984> k then
23:34:27  <Bjarni> the nightly build is crosscompiled
23:34:39  <Bjarni> it should be ok for OSX 10.4, but you never know
23:34:47  <Bjarni> and right now I'm out of ideas for anything else
23:35:07  <lws1984> eh, try it, what have I got to lose?
23:35:14  <Bjarni> bandwidth
23:35:21  <Bjarni> hmm
23:35:21  <lws1984> :p
23:35:28  <Bjarni> now my ftp upload stalled
23:35:29  <lws1984> got enough of that already
23:35:54  *** Sacro [~ben@adsl-83-100-141-177.karoo.KCOM.COM] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
23:36:01  <Bjarni> and now it started again
23:36:57  <lws1984> weird
23:40:07  <Bjarni> you only got that mac?
23:40:26  <lws1984> well, it's the only one I can get to right now
23:40:41  <lws1984> will be for a while, too
23:40:47  <Bjarni> close enough
23:41:03  <lws1984> what?
23:42:41  <Bjarni> I just wondered if it turns out to be the nightly build server, that produces odd binaries, then you might have to compile yourself
23:42:49  <lws1984> hmm
23:42:58  <lws1984> well, I could always install xcode on here
23:42:59  <Bjarni> but it will take 10-15 minutes to do so
23:43:08  <Bjarni> on that CPU
23:43:17  <lws1984> well, would all of the nightlies be odd or just this one?
23:43:23  <Bjarni> upload half done
23:43:37  * Bjarni hates his ISP for setting a 128 bit upload cap
23:44:27  <Bjarni> they got insane upstream prices and it's take it or leave it because they own the phone cables so they will get their money even if I use a different ISP
23:44:37  <lws1984> that's just great
23:44:44  <lws1984> what, no broadband?
23:45:06  <Bjarni> and the only kind of net connection I can get here is modem, ISDN or ADSL
23:45:15  <lws1984> pity
23:45:16  <Bjarni> I got the latter, but it's not that much broadband when uploading
23:45:22  <mikk36> 128bit not 128Kbit ?
23:45:25  <lws1984> hmm
23:45:30  <Bjarni> Kbit :p
23:45:32  <mikk36> :P
23:45:41  <Bjarni> I'm not actually counting bytes
23:45:42  <mikk36> it aint that bad :)
23:45:56  <Bjarni> it is compared to a 2 mb downstream
23:46:01  <Bjarni> and the price I pay for it
23:46:08  <mikk36> how much do u pay then ?
23:46:29  <Bjarni> I mean I learned that I can for less get 8/1,5 mbit ADSL in NL
23:46:51  <mikk36> 1.5 up ??? no way for adsl
23:47:06  <Bjarni> I think it was 1,5
23:47:10  <Bjarni> maybe it was just 1
23:47:16  <Bjarni> but really fast for ADSL
23:47:37  <mikk36> ADSL max is 8/1
23:47:55  <mikk36> ADSL2 is 12/1
23:48:02  <Bjarni> Denmark got twice the price for ADSL as as Sweden
23:48:10  <Bjarni> and Sweden is not a cheap ADSL country
23:48:15  <mikk36> ADSL2+ is 24/1
23:48:30  <mikk36> ADSL2+ Annex M is 24/3.5
23:48:30  <eQualizer> mikk36: 24/3.5?
23:48:48  <mikk36> ITU G.992.5 	ADSL2+ 	24 Mbit/s 	1.0 Mbit/s
23:48:48  <mikk36> ITU G.992.5 Annex L[1] 	RE-ADSL2+ 	24 Mbit/s 	1.0 Mbit/s
23:48:48  <mikk36> ITU G.992.5 Annex M 	ADSL2+ 	24 Mbit/s 	3.5 Mbit/s
23:49:11  <eQualizer> From wikipedia? :)
23:49:13  *** phrands [~ko@0x57313fc9.esnxx5.adsl-dhcp.tele.dk] has quit []
23:49:17  <mikk36> Standard name 	Common name 	 Downstream rate 	 Upstream rate
23:51:10  <glx> with my ISP 28 Mbit/s 1 Mbit/s
23:51:20  <mikk36> ??
23:51:27  *** Rens2Sea [~Rens2Sea@213.211.185.168] has quit []
23:51:35  <mikk36> u sure it's adsl ?
23:51:51  <glx> yes if you disable some error checks
23:52:28  <glx> and it's ATM
23:52:34  <mikk36> ?
23:53:10  <glx> ISP here gives ATM rate :) (IP is a little less)
23:54:23  <eQualizer> glx: All error checkin is disabled, or only when you use full bandwidht?
23:54:49  <glx> when you want the maximum you disable the checks
23:55:07  <glx> but if you want TV you keep them :)
23:55:37  *** tokai [~tokai@p54B80CCD.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
23:55:41  <glx> anyway I can't get more than 4Mbit because I'm too far from the central
23:57:12  <Bjarni> lws1984: http://devs.openttd.org/~bjarni/openttd-r6682-osx.dmg
23:57:21  <lws1984> ah, thanks
23:57:36  <Bjarni> I don't know how long ago it finished. I left the computer ;)
23:57:36  <eQualizer> How the url tag worked in most of the forums? [url=http://hereistheadd.res]and this is what you see[/url] ?
23:57:52  <glx> yes
23:58:51  <Bjarni> hmm
23:58:52  *** tokai [~tokai@p54B8098F.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #openttd
23:58:52  *** mode/#openttd [+v tokai] by ChanServ
23:58:54  <eQualizer> Thanks.
23:59:08  <Bjarni> lws1984: I just got a theory about what might be stealing your CPU time: YAPF
23:59:41  <Bjarni> try to disable it

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