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00:02:21 <CIA-1> rubidium * r7782 /trunk/Makefile.in: -Fix (r7779): do really check whether there are files to copy in the directories, not just test whether the directories exist. 00:04:32 *** Digitalfox [~digi@bl8-41-120.dsl.telepac.pt] has joined #openttd 00:08:38 *** Progman [~progman@p57A1D546.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:13:29 *** PandaMojo [~panda@c-67-183-223-161.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #openttd 00:14:34 *** Aloysha [~Aloysha@ppp233-166.lns3.syd7.internode.on.net] has joined #openttd 00:17:33 *** Digitalfox [~digi@bl8-41-120.dsl.telepac.pt] has quit [] 00:22:29 <Wolf01> 'night all 00:22:39 *** Wolf01 [~wolf01@82.58.194.234] has quit [] 00:22:52 <CIA-1> Darkvater * r7783 /website/templates/ (footer.tpl footer_nightly.tpl): [Website] Update copyright information to 2007 00:26:45 <CIA-1> rubidium * r7784 /branches/newhouses/ (65 files in 7 dirs): [NewHouses] -Sync: with trunk r7727:7758. 00:26:56 <Darkvater> OMG WinXP crashes with a BSOD when I try to debug a crash.dmp file 00:26:58 <Darkvater> o_O 00:27:11 <Darkvater> twice in a row now 00:27:15 <Darkvater> do I dare a third time? :) 00:34:04 <Bjarni> 3rd time is the charm 00:34:15 <Bjarni> then you will not be able to recover from it again :P 00:34:30 <Bjarni> or it will work 00:34:36 <Bjarni> so it's a win-win 00:35:46 <Bjarni> http://www.bash.org/?117991 <--- such dreams can really be bad for you 00:35:53 <Bjarni> and/or your family 00:36:50 <Darkvater> and a third time :D 00:37:07 * Darkvater removes kerio personal firewall since khips.sys belongs to that program 00:37:10 <Darkvater> bleh 00:37:24 <Darkvater> the question is...will it do so a fourth time ^^ 00:37:57 <Bjarni> it's windows, remember ;) 00:38:49 <ln-> Let's vote. 00:39:34 <CIA-1> rubidium * r7785 /branches/newhouses/ (564 files in 38 dirs): [NewHouses] -Sync: execute the same script for /branches/newhouses as was done for /trunk in r7759. 00:40:06 <Bjarni> <gedamo> Some of our customers used to call their computer boxes the "brain" and it led tothem calling up saying things like "My brain isn'tworking" <--- somehow I guess they used windows 00:43:25 <BFM> What's the most old school emo con anyone can think of? Not unlike T_T 00:43:33 <CIA-1> rubidium * r7786 /branches/newhouses/ (11 files in 6 dirs): [NewHouses] -Sync: with trunk r7759:7782. 00:44:19 <Smoovious> BFM... would "!ps -fu BFM" count? 00:44:46 <BFM> Umm, could you explain that one Smoovious? 00:45:20 <Smoovious> well, back in the 80's, we said that as basically a non-obvious f*ck you 00:46:21 <BFM> Maybe not that oldschool 00:46:33 <Smoovious> okee 00:46:47 <Smoovious> =8> 00:46:49 <Darkvater> so 00:46:50 <Darkvater> gn 00:47:02 <Rubidium> good night Darkvater 00:47:33 <Bjarni> night Darkvater 00:47:47 <Bjarni> http://www.bash.org/?392288 <-- parential control online.... in a whole new way :D 00:49:14 <Sacro> Bjarni! 00:50:28 <ln-> Bjarni! 00:50:46 <ln-> Cmd <-> Ctrl 00:53:03 * Bjarni still wonders about that reply 00:53:34 <Bjarni> Cmd and Ctrl are two different keys, I know 00:53:38 <Bjarni> but 00:54:06 <Bjarni> what relationship does that have to a parent using the internet to find his kid smoking weed? 00:54:07 *** roboboy [~Leo@c211-30-116-5.carlnfd2.nsw.optusnet.com.au] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:58:22 <ln-> Cmd -> Ctrl, Ctrl -> Cmd 00:59:10 <Bjarni> whatever 00:59:13 <Bjarni> goodnight 00:59:15 *** Bjarni [~Bjarni@0x50a46ac4.virnxx14.adsl-dhcp.tele.dk] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 01:06:53 *** GoneWacko [~gonewacko@c18041.upc-c.chello.nl] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:06:57 *** GoneWacko [~gonewacko@c18041.upc-c.chello.nl] has joined #openttd 01:16:38 <BFM> I do I insist on eating a whole large pizza, every time pizza is served =\ 01:18:30 <ln-> BFM accepts Food. 01:23:31 *** _42_ [truelight@openttd.org] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 01:24:53 *** Zuu [~leif@c-383c71d5.025-58-6e6b702.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #openttd 01:27:07 <Zuu> I have reported a bug on bugs.openttd.org (about the game crashing when building airport). I have happend to found out that the bug was not becuse of Toyland but because of station_spread set to a value < size of airport. Should I create a new entry and link back to the old entry in the database since it will make the report more clear? 01:28:31 *** Aloysha [~Aloysha@ppp233-166.lns3.syd7.internode.on.net] has quit [Quit: Aloysha] 01:28:36 <glx> http://bugs.openttd.org/task/508 <-- lol 01:32:33 <ArmEagle> hmm, but what if you 4xplant then remove and then 4xplant again? .. 01:33:34 <DaleStan> Zuu: Personally, I'd leave it as is, and let TPTB change the title as they see fit. 01:36:06 <Zuu> DaleStan: Okay. 01:36:37 *** _42_ [truelight@openttd.org] has joined #openttd 01:37:09 <Zuu> ArmEagle: I think that would work too, but would take lots longer time.. 01:42:26 *** Tobin [~Tobin@c58-107-61-130.eburwd7.vic.optusnet.com.au] has joined #openttd 01:42:53 *** ChrisM87 [~ChrisM@p54AC526F.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:02:46 <ln-> what'shappeningwhydoesn'tanyonetalkanythingiseverybodysleepingalreadyatthistime? 02:03:24 <glx> is your 'space' key broken ln- ? ;) 02:04:59 <ln-> i've been told english used to be written without spaces in the past. 02:05:16 *** Frostregen_ [~sucks@dslb-084-058-163-234.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #openttd 02:05:37 <ln-> and that's why they came up with the idea to write 'I' with capital so it would be more recognizable. 02:07:44 <Zuu> Cool, found a way to solve my reported bug in the RC2-code, which I hope works in the trunk too.. but it's 3 AM here.. and I better sleep :) 02:08:02 <Zuu> (the bug about airports) 02:12:41 *** Frostregen [SADDAM@dslb-084-058-130-040.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 02:12:56 *** Frostregen_ is now known as Frostregen 02:31:30 *** Eddi|zuHause2 [~johekr@p54B76695.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 02:37:30 *** Peakki [antti@cs181000195.pp.htv.fi] has quit [Quit: Lähdössä] 02:37:56 *** Eddi|zuHause [~johekr@p54B75A84.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 02:53:57 *** RockerTimmy [~RockerTim@a82-92-123-126.adsl.xs4all.nl] has quit [] 03:03:00 *** setrodox [~setrodox@83-65-234-231.dynamic.xdsl-line.inode.at] has joined #openttd 03:11:05 *** GoneWacko [~gonewacko@c18041.upc-c.chello.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 03:26:52 *** glx [glx@bny93-6-82-245-156-124.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Quit: bye] 03:36:54 <Smoovious> ugh... trying to register on flyspray (bugs.openttd.org) and I can't... keep getting errors on the page saying confirmation code was sent, but never gets sent 03:44:34 *** Smoovious [~smoovious@c-71-205-140-67.hsd1.mi.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 03:48:24 *** Smoovious [~smoovious@c-71-205-140-67.hsd1.mi.comcast.net] has joined #openttd 03:49:20 <Smoovious> if someone answered, I didn't see it 03:50:37 *** dp [~dp@p54B2E5FD.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 03:57:32 *** dp_ [~dp@p54B2E50B.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 04:19:09 *** Alltaken [~chatzilla@203-97-223-241.cable.telstraclear.net] has joined #openttd 04:21:57 *** Aloysha 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[~chatzilla@CPE-60-227-105-136.nsw.bigpond.net.au] has joined #openttd 06:13:09 *** setrodox [~setrodox@83-65-234-231.dynamic.xdsl-line.inode.at] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 06:19:58 *** Sacro [~Ben@adsl-213-249-186-101.karoo.KCOM.COM] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 06:32:43 *** Gonozal_VIII [~Gono@N780P018.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 06:33:35 *** Gonozal_VIII [~Gono@N880P013.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has joined #openttd 06:43:37 *** Empero [empero@host-212-149-222-156.kpylaajakaista.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 06:44:59 *** DJ_Mirage [~sexybigge@biggetje.xs4all.nl] has joined #openttd 06:50:36 <CIA-1> miham * r7787 /trunk/src/lang/ (7 files in 2 dirs): (log message trimmed) 06:50:36 <CIA-1> WebTranslator2 update to 2007-01-03 07:49:50 06:50:36 <CIA-1> czech - 2 changed by joeprusa (2) 06:50:36 <CIA-1> danish - 80 changed by MiR (80) 06:50:36 <CIA-1> esperanto - 1 fixed, 3 changed by LaPingvino (4) 06:50:36 <CIA-1> estonian - 54 changed by kristjans (54) 06:50:36 <CIA-1> japanese - 177 fixed, 65 changed by ickoonite (242) 07:32:17 *** Aloysha [~Aloysha@ppp233-166.lns3.syd7.internode.on.net] has joined #openttd 07:35:22 *** GoneWacko [~gonewacko@c18041.upc-c.chello.nl] has joined #openttd 07:57:08 *** roboboy [~Leo@c211-30-116-5.carlnfd2.nsw.optusnet.com.au] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 08:05:33 <peter1138> morning 08:06:28 <Rubidium> morning 08:17:04 *** Osai [~Osai@pD9EB545D.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 08:18:21 <KUDr> gm 08:18:51 <peter1138> Rubidium: problem with langs 08:18:58 <peter1138> if one lang fails, it doesn't continue with the rest 08:19:06 <Rubidium> hmm 08:19:20 <peter1138> currently it gets to czech, so i don't get an english.lng 08:20:34 <CIA-1> rubidium * r7788 /trunk/Makefile.lang.in: -Fix (r7759): do not stop compiling languages when one language fails to compile. 08:20:39 <peter1138> heh, gets further if you specify -j to make :) 08:20:39 <Celestar> *yells* goooooood morning #openttd 08:20:43 <peter1138> that was quick 08:20:48 <Celestar> peter1138: try -k 08:21:56 <KUDr> Celestar: gm sir 08:21:57 <peter1138> too late :) 08:23:15 <Celestar> WTF 08:23:20 <Celestar> 3300 lines of changelog?! 08:24:00 <Celestar> I was away for about 12 hours 08:25:33 <blathijs> as in, commit log? 08:25:41 <blathijs> or IRC backlog? 08:25:45 <Celestar> commit log 08:26:05 <Celestar> ah I see, you moved around a fuckton of files 08:26:08 * blathijs has stopped readin all commit logs some months ago :-) 08:26:34 <Celestar> Rubidium: do you feel like syncing cbh and bridges with trunk, cuz I dunno shit about the makefile rewrite 08:27:04 <peter1138> bridges is no longer needed, is it? 08:27:17 <Rubidium> Celestar: if you do a sync up to (including) r7758 first, then I'll do the rest 08:27:22 <Celestar> peter1138: well, for crossingbridges I could do a new branch 08:27:25 <Celestar> Rubidium: ok no problem 08:27:34 <Celestar> Rubidium: and leave out bridges for the time being 08:27:49 <peter1138> don't reuse branches :) 08:28:45 <Celestar> peter1138: ok I won't 08:28:51 <Celestar> so shall we remove the bridge branch? 08:30:26 *** roboboy [~Leo@c211-30-116-5.carlnfd2.nsw.optusnet.com.au] has joined #openttd 08:32:13 <Celestar> Rubidium: your branch 08:32:19 <Celestar> Darkvater: ping 08:32:25 <CIA-1> celestar * r7789 /branches/custombridgeheads/ (66 files in 7 dirs): [cbh] - Sync with r7720:7758 from trunk 08:33:08 <Rubidium> Celestar: ok 08:36:31 <Celestar> KUDr: I'm getting "train is lost" messages on a test game (many trains), with NTP only. do you want to have a look? :) 08:37:05 <KUDr> Celestar: we have much bigger problems now 08:37:26 <KUDr> when leaving the bridge wormhole 08:37:39 <KUDr> and there is red signal on the head 08:37:52 <Celestar> BOOM 08:37:54 <Celestar> ? 08:38:03 <KUDr> we must stop train before entering head and stay in the wormhole 08:38:14 <peter1138> train controller 08:38:28 <KUDr> it will totally mangle controller 08:38:51 <KUDr> vehicle still has track==0x40 08:38:59 <peter1138> the controller should already han... hmm 08:39:06 <KUDr> so we can't reuse the existing code as it is 08:39:37 <Celestar> KUDr: what about moving the signal on the tile so that the vehicle can get off-bridge before? 08:40:08 <KUDr> it is not about its position 08:40:22 <KUDr> it it about that vehicle can't be on ramp 08:40:26 <Celestar> KUDr: or drop signals on bridgeheads for the time being and rewrite the bridges according to caladan and stillunknown 08:40:27 <peter1138> v->u.rail.track isn't tested there, afaics 08:40:32 <Celestar> why not on bridge ramp? 08:40:35 <KUDr> otherwise it will make one more signal red 08:40:43 <KUDr> after the bridge 08:41:00 <peter1138> oh, i see 08:41:11 <peter1138> none of it's executed if it's 0x40 08:41:26 <peter1138> tum te tum :) 08:41:43 <KUDr> peter1138: but now it is so that we leave wormhole and it gets executed 08:41:55 <KUDr> but we need to exec it before leaving 08:42:22 *** Empero [empero@host-212-149-222-156.kpylaajakaista.net] has joined #openttd 08:42:49 <Celestar> back in 5 08:42:58 <peter1138> right well, better you than me :) 08:43:00 <KUDr> Celestar: so you mean put there bridge index into tile? 08:43:19 <peter1138> this is where you start to wonder if you could change gtts and everything else to use a 3D coordinate system 08:43:43 <KUDr> peter1138: why 3d? 08:44:12 <peter1138> so that when you've got 3 levels of bridges........ 08:44:15 <caladan> goodmorning 08:44:20 <KUDr> ahh 08:44:32 <KUDr> but ramp can't be over ramp 08:44:34 <caladan> that waiting with implementing signals on bridges may be a god idea 08:44:58 <peter1138> KUDr: not currently, no, heh 08:45:16 <KUDr> peter1138: and later? 08:45:28 <KUDr> ramp over ramp is nonsense i guess 08:45:28 <Celestar> caladan: do you have that image of yours again? 08:45:35 <caladan> yes 08:45:45 <Celestar> peter1138: I'm wondering that as well. 08:45:53 <caladan> http://salo.ath.cx/files/openttd/bridges2.png 08:46:00 <Celestar> KUDr: check that link of caladan :) 08:46:03 <Celestar> peter1138: you too 08:46:16 <caladan> that piece should be 4x2, not 4x3, my wrong, didnt correct it 08:46:22 <Celestar> caladan: (the bridge map is still too large) 08:46:25 <Celestar> damnit ... beat me to it 08:46:55 <caladan> ok, i'll correct it now ;] 08:46:58 <caladan> wait 08:47:06 <KUDr> heh, crossing on bridge? 08:48:08 <KUDr> i must get coffee but i like that pic 08:48:23 <Celestar> ROFL 08:49:48 <CIA-1> rubidium * r7790 /branches/custombridgeheads/ (532 files in 37 dirs): [cbh] -Sync: execute the same script for /branches/custombridgeheads as was done for /trunk in r7759. 08:51:11 *** [ufoun] [~ha@b07-305a.kn.vutbr.cz] has joined #openttd 08:51:16 <Celestar> Rubidium: thanks, checking 08:51:43 <Celestar> KUDr: that'S a concept stillunknown caladan and I came up with concerning bridges and tunnels 08:52:19 <Celestar> Rubidium: is Makefile.config still used btw? 08:52:31 <Rubidium> no 08:52:33 <Celestar> ok 08:52:35 <Celestar> nice :) 08:52:45 <Rubidium> use sources.list :) 08:52:50 <caladan> The basic idea is here, just a simple bridge: http://salo.ath.cx/files/openttd/bridges.png 08:53:03 <caladan> But if we have map we can do it better, like here: http://salo.ath.cx/files/openttd/bridges.png 08:53:08 <caladan> But if we have map we can do it better, like here: http://salo.ath.cx/files/openttd/bridges2.png 08:55:16 <CIA-1> rubidium * r7791 /branches/custombridgeheads/projects/ (openttd.vcproj openttd_vs80.vcproj): [cbh] -Fix (r7790): forgot to run projects/generate, so the MSVC project files were not in sync with sources.list. 08:55:19 <Noldo> the second one has no orange tiles, is that a mistake? 08:55:24 <KUDr> caladan" it is relly nice and seems doable 08:56:07 <caladan> notice, bridge1.png and bridge2.png 08:56:13 <CIA-1> rubidium * r7792 /branches/custombridgeheads/ (19 files in 8 dirs): [cbh] -Sync: with trunk r7759:7788. 08:56:40 <caladan> must wake up :/ 08:56:43 <Rubidium> Celestar: now it's in-sync again :) 08:57:53 <Celestar> thanks 08:59:10 <Celestar> KUDr: yes it is doable, the only problem would be the GUI 08:59:22 * Celestar highfives caladan: Good Team :) 09:00:01 <caladan> Celestar: I still really helping stillunknown to understand dynamic allocation... 09:00:11 <Celestar> caladan: ^^ 09:00:39 <Celestar> Rubidium: where did the grfs go? 09:00:53 <Rubidium> bin/data 09:00:56 <caladan> Celestar: Thou he seems to understand what I say and there's some progress 09:01:06 <Rubidium> the openttd executable goes to bin/ too 09:02:34 <Celestar> Rubidium: so does the cfg and the saves? 09:02:35 <KUDr> so the only problem(s) would be: 1) how to handle shared ramp (for 2 bridges) 2) how to not waste many tiles when bridge layout is like 50 horizontal tracks, curve and 50 vertical tracks 09:03:18 <Celestar> KUDr: waste it 09:03:31 <Celestar> KUDr: 1) don'T do it for now, 2) waste it, 09:03:50 <caladan> KUDr: Basic idea are straight bridges/tunnels 09:04:03 *** caladan [~caladan@161-be2-6.acn.waw.pl] has quit [Quit: leaving] 09:04:05 <Celestar> KUDr: and for the time being, we just disallow signals on bridgeheads? 09:04:12 <KUDr> Celestar: but if you intro new concept you should never end with "don'T do it for now" 09:04:38 *** caladan [~caladan@161-be2-6.acn.waw.pl] has joined #openttd 09:04:51 <stillunknown> a concept should be introduced doing nothing, then gradually expanded to take over functions and add new stuff 09:05:00 <KUDr> Celestar: then i would recommend to postpone cbh 09:05:11 <KUDr> and do the design change first 09:05:55 *** Aloysha [~Aloysha@ppp233-166.lns3.syd7.internode.on.net] has quit [Quit: Aloysha] 09:06:01 <KUDr> otherwise we will have many dead ends in the development and aslo in savegames etc 09:06:21 <KUDr> and maintenance cost... 09:07:44 <peter1138> do we still need the old LRU? 09:07:48 <peter1138> for the spritecache 09:08:38 <Celestar> stillunknown: yeah 09:09:02 <Celestar> KUDr: peter1138: but how could we do the drawing? we need some kind of hash table that finds all the tiles at a given position? 09:09:08 <Celestar> this is the main thing that worries me 09:09:26 <Celestar> and we needa talk to Darkvater, Rubidium and others because we might want help with the rewrite :) 09:09:38 <KUDr> Celestar: it is not a problem 09:09:54 <Celestar> KUDr: I assume you have some idea on how to do it? :) 09:10:07 <KUDr> there can be supertiles containing list of bridges in them 09:10:24 <KUDr> like 16x16 tiles = one supertile 09:10:34 <Celestar> and those would not need to be stored, but can be computed on the fly upon loading 09:10:42 <KUDr> yes 09:10:45 <peter1138> hmm 09:10:51 <Celestar> I suggest we drop _map then and make kind of a pool of maps 09:10:55 <KUDr> this will be our drawing cache 09:10:58 <Celestar> with no real principal map 09:11:00 <caladan> I dont really get the idea of hashes, twhat for? 09:11:08 <Celestar> caladan: we just dropped it anyway :) 09:11:29 <Celestar> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hash_table 09:11:47 <caladan> Celestar: i know how hash table works, i dont see how we could use it here :P 09:12:14 <KUDr> caladan: when drawing region you need to know what is in this region 09:12:43 <KUDr> but bridge can have both ends somewhere else 09:12:54 <KUDr> so you can miss it 09:13:04 <peter1138> this stuff will work for tunnels too, right? 09:13:11 <caladan> right 09:13:12 <Celestar> peter1138: so the pool of Maps would just contain the pointer to the map, which is allocated separately, and size/position information 09:13:15 <Celestar> peter1138: right :) 09:13:20 <KUDr> peter1138: i would like to do the in one shot 09:13:20 <Celestar> peter1138: that's the idea behind it 09:13:32 <KUDr> yes 09:13:35 <Celestar> peter1138: bridge and tunnels would no longer be wormholes, but rather portals to a new map. 09:13:37 <KUDr> same concept 09:13:43 <KUDr> for both 09:13:51 <caladan> Map struct would be like that: 09:13:52 <peter1138> heh 09:13:56 <Celestar> and vehicles would just have another property showing on which map they are 09:13:57 <caladan> typedef struct BridgeMap { Tile* bt; TileIndex first_tile; uint16 size_x; uint16 size_y; 09:14:00 <caladan> } BridgeMap;typedef struct BridgeMap { Tile* bt; TileIndex first_tile; uint16 size_x; uint16 size_y; 09:14:13 <peter1138> so not BridgeMap then ;p 09:14:19 <Celestar> caladan: drop the "Bridge" in "BridgeMap" 09:14:20 <caladan> } BridgeMap;yeah, old idea of name 09:14:22 <Celestar> :) 09:14:36 <Celestar> ok shall we give it a shot and make a branch for that? 09:14:44 <peter1138> might as well 09:14:58 <Celestar> but first I'll try to write up some procedure, k? 09:14:58 <caladan> Darkvater suggested that yesterday 09:14:59 <peter1138> there seems to be issues with cbh at the moment :/ 09:15:10 <Noldo> SubMap? 09:15:15 <Celestar> Darkvater: suggested to make a branch? 09:15:23 <peter1138> Celestar: but... doesn't this mostly replace the bridge branch? 09:15:31 <caladan> Darkvater suggested making a branch 09:15:32 <Celestar> peter1138: yes :) 09:15:34 <peter1138> which was just merged :P 09:15:52 <Celestar> peter1138: but not fully. I think the bridge branch is a step towards it :) 09:15:55 <peter1138> otoh, maybe it's simpler to continue with the way bridges are currently done 09:15:56 <peter1138> yeah 09:15:58 <KUDr> LayerMap 09:16:05 <peter1138> maplayer 09:16:13 <Celestar> what global map variables do we have? 09:16:18 <KUDr> as it should describe one Z layer 09:16:40 <KUDr> maplayer works too 09:16:42 <peter1138> hmm 09:16:45 <Celestar> KUDr: and if the bridge or tunnels changes z value, we get a new submap? 09:16:45 <caladan> We got height information in each tile 09:16:48 <peter1138> ma player o_O 09:17:00 <KUDr> Celestar: we should 09:17:12 <Celestar> KUDr: agree 09:17:16 <peter1138> yes 09:17:18 <KUDr> Celestar: then we can handle more bridges in one maplayer 09:17:30 <Darkvater> morning 09:17:36 <caladan> So you think that making several layers is better? 09:17:38 <KUDr> morning master 09:18:00 <Darkvater> sorry Celestar didn't have time to test cbh; got caught up in a crash in RC2 and spontaneous XP BSOD's when I tried debugging it :( 09:18:06 <peter1138> i can forsee issues merging/splitting maplayers if you don't 09:18:16 <KUDr> caladan: it is what we wanted to do anyway (map layers) 09:18:57 <caladan> It would mean well, 10times more memory usage for map 09:19:02 <KUDr> 'merging/splitting maplayers' will be needed but it is isolated algorithm 09:19:04 <Celestar> Darkvater: we might have just postponed cbh 09:19:14 <Celestar> caladan: why? 09:19:31 <Celestar> caladan: consider this: less than about 1-2% of the map is covered by bridges/tunnels. 09:19:31 <caladan> One layer(level), one map? 09:19:35 <Celestar> caladan: no no. 09:19:38 <Celestar> no 3d map. 09:19:39 <Celestar> :) 09:19:44 <KUDr> caladan: why? there will be your concept of small maps used 09:20:15 <caladan> KUDr: so i dont get how we would need that Z coordinate 09:20:18 <peter1138> hmm, should a map layer be aligned to the supertiles? 09:20:34 <peter1138> hmm, that wastes memory 09:20:45 <peter1138> Darkvater: ditch old spritecache LRU? does anyone use it? 09:20:55 <KUDr> caladan: it is better than waste whole area for one bridge only 09:21:36 <caladan> KUDr: But each submap would be more-les of the size of bridge 09:22:00 <Celestar> easy 09:22:07 <KUDr> or size/2 * size/2 in worst case 09:22:21 <Celestar> a "submap" is 1 z level below in case of a tunnel tile, and 1 z level above in case of a bridge tile. 09:22:25 <KUDr> it is size^2 / 4 << too much 09:22:44 <Celestar> KUDr: I don't think so. 09:22:50 <KUDr> Celestar: can't be one below or one above 09:23:03 <Celestar> KUDr: because what you are suggesting is essentially a full 3D map. I'm not for that approach :> 09:23:05 <peter1138> the landscape varies 09:23:09 <caladan> Celestar: Ok, thats Ok, we have z index below level if tunnel and +n if bridge 09:23:13 <KUDr> exactly 09:23:20 <peter1138> so it needs to be a fixed z level 09:23:30 <KUDr> yes 09:23:31 <Celestar> ok so the map needs a fixed z level 09:23:33 <Celestar> :) 09:23:33 <KUDr> fixed 09:23:37 <peter1138> therefore a layer can slice the landscape, yum. 09:23:38 <KUDr> and portals 09:23:48 <KUDr> agree 09:23:49 <Darkvater> caladan: did I suggest to make a branch? nice :O 09:24:02 <caladan> Darkvater: yes, maybe that was o joke, but yes 09:24:13 <Celestar> peter1138: no it cannot. because where it does, there is a portal 09:24:39 <Celestar> peter1138: non-reachable tiles would be of type MP_VOID 09:24:47 <Darkvater> peter1138: didn't spritecache LRU was used internally to decide which sprites to throw out once the cache is full? 09:25:07 <peter1138> Darkvater: yes, but have two versions of it, both r1 09:25:11 <Darkvater> Rubidium: can you explain me how adding a new source file now is going to work? 09:25:18 <Darkvater> Rubidium: eg you add the file to sources.list and then? 09:25:29 <peter1138> hmm 09:26:47 <Darkvater> and which one are we using? Or is it configurable? 09:26:52 <Darkvater> which I've never seen an option of 09:26:54 <peter1138> we're using the new one 09:26:59 <peter1138> it's not an option, it's a define 09:27:12 <peter1138> WANT_NEW_LRU 09:28:59 <Darkvater> ah I see, I think I've never seen the WANT_OLD_LRU one :) 09:29:07 <peter1138> me neither 09:29:17 <Darkvater> while you are there, could you also drop the sprite_rotate ifdef thingie? 09:29:55 <peter1138> NEW_ROTATION? 09:29:56 <peter1138> hmm 09:30:12 <Darkvater> if it's called that, then yes :) 09:30:23 *** Celestar [~Jadzia_Da@galadriel.td.mw.tum.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 09:30:24 <Darkvater> Vurlix started that and then just abandoned it 09:30:59 <peter1138> hmm. separate commit. NEW_ROTATION is in a lot more places 09:31:24 <Darkvater> you could call it -cleanup: remove obsolete, never-used code :) 09:32:05 <CIA-1> peter1138 * r7793 /trunk/src/spritecache.c: -Cleanup: Remove obsolute, never-used old spritecache LRU code 09:32:13 <peter1138> obsolute :( 09:32:24 <Darkvater> lol 09:32:24 <peter1138> my ^C didn't work :P 09:33:47 <peter1138> heh, NEW_ROTATION only drew the ground? hehe 09:34:23 *** Celestar [~Jadzia_Da@galadriel.td.mw.tum.de] has joined #openttd 09:34:25 <Celestar> :S 09:34:48 <Celestar> note to self: after a reboot, there's no need to go looking for your SCREEN'ed irssi session 09:34:54 <peter1138> :D 09:35:04 <Darkvater> :) 09:35:12 <Darkvater> that's why I irc from another machine :) 09:35:23 <Celestar> http://www.fvfischer.de/ottd/new_map_concept.txt 09:35:28 <Celestar> guys .. opinions ... 09:36:07 <Darkvater> _map[] is also a global variable :) 09:36:15 <Celestar> true :P 09:36:23 <Celestar> but it's _m not _map 09:36:34 <peter1138> why non-power of 2? 09:36:50 <caladan> I dont think that's required, i would leave it as it is 09:36:58 <KUDr> yes 09:37:00 <peter1138> might cause performance issues... 09:37:05 <Darkvater> I don't like some of the changes there 09:37:07 <KUDr> true 09:37:10 <Celestar> peter1138: because if you have a map that is 33 tiles long, the thing would be 64 tiles? 09:37:14 <Celestar> but ok we can leave that. 09:37:18 <Celestar> Darkvater: like which ones? 09:37:23 * Darkvater is more in favour of some global variables then computing them on the fly 09:37:32 <Darkvater> 3). for example 09:37:36 <Celestar> ok 09:37:42 <Celestar> then drop the text file 09:37:48 <Celestar> just move all the variables into a struct :) 09:37:51 <Darkvater> and also non-power of 2? 09:37:56 <KUDr> Celestar: ahh talking about submaps? 09:37:57 <Darkvater> Your submap can be of any size no? 09:38:10 <KUDr> submaps yes 09:38:16 <KUDr> but map not 09:38:17 <Celestar> KUDr: a submap is identical to the main map, I'd not distinguish between them. 09:38:39 <KUDr> hmm 09:38:40 <caladan> Celestar: True, they have to be well, same 09:38:46 <Celestar> wait 09:39:44 <caladan> and what for is that _map_tile_mask 09:40:01 <KUDr> 'z_level (which is 1!) for the main map' ? 09:40:22 <KUDr> main map should contain surface 09:40:32 <KUDr> nothing else 09:40:32 <peter1138> also, don't pool the main map, heh 09:40:35 <Celestar> KUDr: yes, but we want tunnels under the sea :) 09:40:39 <Celestar> peter1138: why? 09:40:49 <peter1138> performance 09:40:59 <KUDr> sea level can be 4 for example 09:41:09 <peter1138> -1 09:41:14 <Celestar> -1 ? 09:41:14 <caladan> KUDr: Agreed 09:41:20 <peter1138> sea level should be 0 :D 09:41:22 <caladan> peter1138: dont go nto negative values 09:41:26 <peter1138> except when the ice caps melt 09:41:29 <Celestar> :P 09:41:42 <hylje> heh 09:41:46 <hylje> climate change ftw? 09:41:58 <Celestar> so do we want a distingushed main map or do we have them "all equal" ? 09:42:15 <Celestar> peter1138: we pool vehicles ... 09:42:57 <KUDr> Celestar: main map should stay as fast as possible 09:43:02 <caladan> I think we should have one global struct of mainmap 09:43:16 <caladan> and pointer to table od pointers to submaps structs 09:43:22 <Darkvater> I thought the submaps were only for bridges (and tunnels in the future). In that case you do want to distinguishbetween them because they're "special" 09:43:49 <Celestar> hm. 09:43:52 * Celestar goes thinking ... 09:43:57 <KUDr> Darkvater: or submap can be for one Z-level 09:44:22 <KUDr> and contain more bridges/tunnels 09:44:36 <KUDr> think of curves in tunnel or on bridge 09:44:42 <Celestar> KUDr: then you have a 3D map ... 09:44:44 <blathijs> Perhaps you should look at the newmap design, maybe we can use some of that :-) 09:44:47 <KUDr> yes 09:44:50 <Darkvater> so you would have 8 copies of _m[] basically you mean? 09:44:55 <Celestar> Darkvater: 16 :) 09:45:00 <KUDr> 3D map would help in the future 09:45:01 <caladan> Right, lets see that, i mean new map 09:45:11 <Celestar> which would increase memory usage by ... ... ... factor of .... 16 09:45:12 <KUDr> like subway stations and so on 09:45:22 <KUDr> Celestar: NO! 09:45:24 <CIA-1> peter1138 * r7794 /trunk/src/ (functions.h spritecache.c viewport.c): -Cleanup: Remove obsolete, never-used landscape rotation code. And spell obsolete correctly. 09:45:30 <KUDr> not full 3d map 09:45:39 <KUDr> surface + submaps 09:46:05 <Celestar> and place submaps where you need them ... hmm... 09:46:13 <KUDr> yes 09:46:20 <Celestar> I dunno 09:46:27 <Darkvater> peter1138: \o/ 09:46:28 <KUDr> with proper merge/split infrastructure 09:46:34 <caladan> Kudr: that's ok 09:46:55 <Celestar> ok 09:46:55 <Darkvater> KUDr: surface + maps for bridge/tunnel? 09:47:18 <blathijs> So you get one "submap" per bridge / tunnel? 09:47:28 <Darkvater> cause that's not what Celestar was advocating... 09:47:30 <blathijs> and submaps are always rectangular 09:47:36 <KUDr> and portal will describe all Z1->Z2 transitions => one portal for one X,Y 09:47:48 <Darkvater> we can't have bridges over bridges atm can we? 09:48:03 <KUDr> blathijs: probably yes, otherwise it would be slow 09:48:03 <caladan> Darkvater: we can with that 09:48:35 <Celestar> Darkvater: we could, but Tron removed the code :S 09:48:40 <Darkvater> if we're going this way I want deep water :) 09:48:43 <caladan> KUDr: dont need that Z transformation, make sure submap begins at the same level as the surrounding is 09:49:02 <KUDr> Darkvater: map + submaps for level rectangles 09:49:23 <Darkvater> Celestar: well; we do need to think about it. I'd rather not have any locomotion rollercoaster crap debacles 09:49:41 <caladan> KUDr: Noone said submap must be flat 09:49:52 <KUDr> caladanL you maybe rigth 09:50:04 * blathijs thinks the concept of submap is a little too fixed 09:50:09 <KUDr> but submap should be flat 09:50:22 <caladan> KUDr: why? 09:50:25 <KUDr> otherwise it will be problem to locate it i guess 09:50:26 <Celestar> blathijs: ? 09:50:36 <blathijs> just stack tiles on top of eachother instead :-) 09:50:57 <KUDr> blathijs: this is another option, yes 09:51:21 <KUDr> better from some POVs 09:51:28 <Celestar> blathijs: we've seen that the stacked tile approach did not work out well. 09:51:35 <Celestar> it ate a lot of memory 09:51:49 <KUDr> Celestar: bad implementation? 09:52:05 <blathijs> I'd say forcing "submaps" to be rectangular eats even more memory 09:52:17 <KUDr> yes 09:52:19 <blathijs> and I'd say the stacked tiles worked pretty well :-) 09:52:21 <caladan> Yeah, submaps must be as small as possible 09:52:43 <peter1138> i never saw stacked tiles in use ;( 09:52:45 <KUDr> caladan: then no curves in tunnels/bridges 09:53:06 <caladan> KUDr: at first, yes 09:54:45 <caladan> But most bridges would be straight 09:55:34 <KUDr> 'at first, yes' we should avoid design limitations like that 09:55:49 <KUDr> otherwise we will need to do it again soon 09:55:56 <KUDr> it is not simple project 09:55:57 * blathijs agrees with KUDr 09:56:25 <KUDr> half-solution is not solution 09:57:35 <KUDr> blathijs: how your stacking worked? pointer to next and prev? 09:57:37 <blathijs> It can be if a real solution costs too much ;-p 09:57:46 <blathijs> KUDr: only pointers up I think 09:57:55 <KUDr> and cyclicng 09:58:13 <blathijs> no, just a reference to the lowest tile at each (x,y) 09:58:27 <KUDr> aha 09:58:38 <KUDr> and then they were in array? 09:59:06 <blathijs> yes 09:59:10 <blathijs> KUDr: http://wiki.openttd.org/index.php/MapRewriteMatthijsFirst 09:59:21 <blathijs> That has some docs about it 09:59:25 <KUDr> because we can have tiles with the same X.Y in array 09:59:29 <KUDr> will look 10:01:29 <blathijs> KUDr: the page I posted doesn't contain details you are asking for I think 10:01:42 <KUDr> i see 10:01:49 <Celestar> KUDr: currently, I tile is (about) 8 bytes. if you add a next pointer, it's another 8 bytes ... 10:02:03 <KUDr> but: 10:02:04 <Celestar> so that drives up the memory usage by a factor of two without adding anything. 10:02:15 <KUDr> if map is array of pointers only 10:02:20 <caladan> Index to submap is better 10:02:24 <KUDr> it would do the job 10:02:45 <Celestar> KUDr: 1024x1024 = 1M ... that'S 8 megs of only pointers ... 10:02:51 <KUDr> and all tiles in one XY can be in the ordered array 10:02:54 <Celestar> without storing a single bit of data. 10:03:25 <KUDr> Celestar: ok, then indices (4 bytes) 10:03:28 <Celestar> http://www.fvfischer.de/ottd/new_map_concept.txt <= reload 10:03:39 <Celestar> KUDr: indices to submaps? yeah 10:03:53 <KUDr> to array of physical tiles 10:04:23 <caladan> And only portals contain that index 10:04:53 <Celestar> KUDr: we have tried the stacked tile approach. it worked out to be TOTALLY bitchy 10:04:56 <Celestar> :> 10:05:05 <KUDr> and each tile needs only two additional bits indicating if there is a 'prev' and 'next' 10:05:24 <KUDr> Celestar: why? 10:05:45 <Celestar> KUDr: check out the old map branch and see for yourself :) 10:05:46 <Darkvater> I must say it was really slow. Back then we still had a lot of direct map access, but in debug mode a 64x64 (empty) was also almost unplayably slow 10:06:05 *** GoneWacko [~gonewacko@c18041.upc-c.chello.nl] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 10:06:06 <KUDr> in my C++ experiment i had supertiles (instead of one big map) and speed impact was nearly zero 10:06:20 <KUDr> and it should work here too 10:06:30 <Celestar> KUDr: goto branches/map/tile.h 10:06:42 <KUDr> ok 10:07:17 <Celestar> we had a nice union-struct for all the tile types 10:07:24 *** GoneWacko [~gonewacko@c18041.upc-c.chello.nl] has joined #openttd 10:07:24 <Celestar> Darkvater: so .. what's your idea? 10:07:31 <Celestar> submaps, or tilestacks? 10:08:12 <Darkvater> well we've had stacks before so I kinda know what to expect there 10:08:16 <KUDr> Celestar: it would be also good approach to have different tile types stored in different arrays (with different item size) 10:08:32 <Darkvater> but this submap idea is pretty good 10:08:46 <hylje> :> 10:08:57 <Darkvater> just how do you want to handle drawing? Eg you are on tile x,y how do you know if you should draw a bridge above or not? 10:09:17 <caladan> i would divide map to regions like 32x32 10:09:21 <blathijs> How do you link a submap to a tile? 10:09:41 <Celestar> Darkvater: some kind of table where this information is stored. we could also give the user the option to remove the main map, bridges visually for better view. 10:09:43 <caladan> and have list of all submaps in that region 10:09:56 <Celestar> blathijs: by storing the index in _m2 (of the bridgehead) 10:10:04 <caladan> and portals would have indeces 10:10:13 <KUDr> caladan: i had 116x16 as the x and y were 4 bits each so easy to address 10:10:15 <Darkvater> although my question is probably already solved since bridges now are also wormholes and only phyisically stored at the bridge-ends 10:10:17 <Darkvater> no? 10:10:33 <Celestar> Darkvater: yes. there's just a "here is a bridge" bit stored. 10:10:33 <blathijs> so, to get the submap over a tile, you must look around for any nearby bridge heads? 10:10:57 <Celestar> blathijs: that's what we do now. 10:11:11 <blathijs> uh, what? 10:11:23 <Celestar> blathijs: looking around for bridge heads to draw the bridge. 10:11:32 <blathijs> *blink* 10:11:46 <Celestar> Darkvater: so, for the "few" bridge heads, we'd just have a marker "here is a submap" 10:11:51 <blathijs> Is it me, or does that give a huge ass performance penalty? 10:11:51 <Celestar> s/heads// 10:11:57 <Celestar> blathijs: it is not noticable. 10:12:08 <Celestar> or at least not measureable. 10:12:44 <blathijs> still, it's not really a scalable solution 10:12:45 <peter1138> it's always done that 10:13:00 <Celestar> blathijs: un a rather empty map, you have waaay to little bridge to notice it, and on a full map, the pathfinders and vehicle colliders take waaay to much cycles to make the bridges a noticable problem. 10:13:06 <peter1138> but perhaps only for the bridge height... 10:13:17 <Celestar> peter1138: yes 10:13:33 <KUDr> not all pathfinders 10:13:36 <KUDr> :) 10:13:41 <Celestar> peter1138: but it had to traverse memory anyway. if is at the bridge heads, it doesn't matter whether to load 1 or 8 bytes. 10:13:42 <stillunknown> i have to go now, and btw Celestar m2 was not empty on bridgeheads :-) 10:13:55 <stillunknown> the bridgetype was in it 10:13:55 <Celestar> KUDr: not really, but more then the bridge drawing code 10:14:04 <Celestar> stillunknown: it takes < 5 minutes to move it, so worry not. 10:14:11 <stillunknown> already solved 10:14:15 <KUDr> Celestar: drawing is not the problem 10:14:23 <Celestar> KUDr: then what is? :) 10:14:35 <Celestar> drawing is the ONLY thing that worries me. 10:14:39 <KUDr> size of regions 10:14:48 <Celestar> size of what regions? 10:14:51 <KUDr> it is half solution 10:14:59 <KUDr> blathijs is right 10:15:17 <KUDr> we should think more of the stacked option 10:15:27 <KUDr> as it is fully scalable 10:15:38 <KUDr> and not so many limitations 10:15:52 <KUDr> bridge/tunnel regions 10:16:01 <KUDr> or you disable curves 10:16:06 <KUDr> but not for now 10:16:11 <KUDr> forever 10:16:25 *** Lachlan [me@58.164.77.26] has joined #openttd 10:16:28 <Celestar> I don't like the stacked tile approach ... maybe because we had a very much failed attempt 10:16:39 <Lachlan> g'day, I'm after a little help 10:16:43 <KUDr> failed why? 10:16:50 <Celestar> KUDr: slow for example 10:16:54 <KUDr> because it was not done well 10:17:03 <Celestar> and memory intensive 10:17:07 <KUDr> therefore you should try better implementation 10:17:18 <Celestar> the memory usage should not go up noticably 10:17:30 <Celestar> (assuming less than 3% of the map are covered with bridgeS/tunlles) 10:17:35 <KUDr> full rectangular regions will eat the same memory 10:17:54 <KUDr> you will need to layer more things 10:18:10 <KUDr> tunnels, stations, bridges 10:18:23 <Lachlan> concerned with starting a server via SSH 10:18:24 <Celestar> the idea of a submap is that you can place EVERYTHING there 10:18:33 <Celestar> Lachlan: and? 10:18:34 <KUDr> crossings/curves in tunnels/bridges 10:18:36 <Celestar> Lachlan: it works, trust me 10:19:10 <Celestar> ok why don't we try to go to a 3D map and hope that zlib does the rest? :) 10:19:10 <KUDr> but then you need rectangular submaps 10:19:21 <Lachlan> well, Celestar, it's probably something silly to do with permissions or the like, but when I ./openttd it simply tells me that the file or folder does not exist. 10:19:24 <blathijs> Celestar: The attempt failed because we found too much other ugly things to improve, in my opinion 10:19:33 <caladan> heh, zlib will compress it but it's still full size in memory 10:19:35 <KUDr> and if you allow curves it will take way more than 3% 10:19:36 <Celestar> blathijs: possibly 10:19:51 <Celestar> caladan: memory is not really a problem. multiplayer is the problem. 10:19:57 <blathijs> caladan: for writing savegames, an indexed solution can be used that uses a lot less memory 10:20:02 <KUDr> and Celestar: clear tiles can eat 4 bytes instead of 8 10:20:13 <Lachlan> thought, my permissions are 777, so I highly doubt it'd be that... 10:20:18 <KUDr> so with 4 bytes as index it can eat the same memory 10:20:18 <blathijs> KUDr: you still need to allocate the full 8 10:20:26 <KUDr> blathijs: 10:20:27 <Celestar> KUDr: it would be helpful if not all tile types have the same memory usage. 10:20:28 <KUDr> no 10:20:31 <blathijs> Lachlan: what does ls -l openttd say? 10:20:42 <KUDr> you need more pools 10:20:52 <KUDr> one for each tile type 10:20:52 <blathijs> one for each tile type? 10:20:56 <blathijs> :-) 10:20:58 <KUDr> heh 10:21:01 <KUDr> nice 10:21:06 <blathijs> Lot of overhead, though 10:21:07 <Celestar> how many levels of indirection do we have then? 10:21:27 <KUDr> 1 i guess 10:21:31 <KUDr> we can see 10:21:44 <KUDr> it depends how it will be done 10:21:59 <Lachlan> "-rwxr-xr-x 1 whitey whitey 1265036 Jan 3 18:57 openttd" 10:23:20 <Celestar> KUDr: can you conjure up a concept? 10:23:33 <KUDr> i can try it 10:23:46 <KUDr> will need to think more about it but i can do it 10:25:00 <Celestar> KUDr: give it a try, I'm waiting 10:25:43 <KUDr> ok 10:26:01 <blathijs> KUDr: Lemme know how it goes 10:26:12 <KUDr> yes 10:26:23 * blathijs really needs to go away now, I was planning on leaving half an hour ago 10:26:29 <caladan> Maybe we should gather all this ideas in one place, so we can easily compareem 10:26:34 *** XeryusTC [~irc@cc480157-b.sneek1.fr.home.nl] has joined #openttd 10:26:35 <blathijs> but you people caught my attentian 10:26:47 <Lachlan> any suggestions? 10:27:23 <blathijs> Lachlan: what's the exact error? 10:27:26 <caladan> Lachlan: ain't that dir? :D 10:27:59 <blathijs> Lachlan: It looks like it oughta work, at first glance 10:27:59 <Lachlan> "bash: ./openttd: No such file or directory" 10:28:09 <caladan> do cd openttd 10:28:12 <caladan> and then ./openttd 10:28:23 <Lachlan> hmm? 10:28:27 <blathijs> do? 10:28:30 <Lachlan> I'm in the same directory as the files. 10:28:37 <caladan> hmmm 10:29:02 <blathijs> caladan: There's no "d" in his ls -l output, so it's no dir 10:29:28 <Brianetta> oingo boingo 10:29:32 <blathijs> weird... I don't know what it is. No time left, sorry 10:29:48 <Lachlan> thanks for your help, anyway 10:30:31 <Darkvater> Lachlan: what does 'file openttd' say? 10:31:02 <Lachlan> "openttd: ELF 32-bit LSB executable, Intel 80386, version 1 (SYSV), for GNU/Linux 2.6.9, dynamically linked (uses shared libs), stripped" 10:31:23 <Darkvater> can you open it for reading? 10:31:26 <Darkvater> eg vim openttd 10:31:28 <Darkvater> ors oemthing 10:31:36 <Celestar> hexdump is better :P 10:32:03 <Lachlan> a whole lot of A's, ^'s and @'s. 10:32:03 <Darkvater> or try another shell? 10:32:04 <Darkvater> just guessing here ;p 10:32:09 <Lachlan> another shell? 10:32:19 <Rubidium> has openttd the proper executable bits set? 10:32:25 <Celestar> yes 10:32:26 <Darkvater> perhaps your screen session doesn't allow you to execute programs? Does it work outside of screen? 10:32:29 <caladan> yes 10:32:34 <Darkvater> 11:22 < Lachlan> "-rwxr-xr-x 1 whitey whitey 1265036 Jan 3 18:57 openttd" 10:32:35 <Lachlan> nope 10:32:51 <Lachlan> I'll give it another try though 10:32:56 <peter1138> ldd openttd 10:33:01 <peter1138> might be missing libs 10:33:12 <Darkvater> peter1138: then it wouldn't be bash complaining 10:33:13 <Lachlan> no doubt it's something completely stupid. 10:33:40 <Darkvater> what version are you using? 10:33:49 <Lachlan> MiniIN 10:33:52 <Lachlan> ... 10:33:53 <Darkvater> oh 10:33:55 <peter1138> bugger off then ;p 10:33:55 * Lachlan grabs the version 10:33:59 <Darkvater> :) 10:34:09 <peter1138> if it's last nights, then... hmm 10:34:24 <Lachlan> well, if subsidiaries was working elsewhere, I'd be happy to use it. 10:35:43 <Darkvater> compiled yourself? downloaded from somewhere? where? when? 10:36:02 <Lachlan> downloaded off nightly.openttd.org 10:36:37 <Darkvater> link? 10:37:00 <Lachlan> http://nightly.openttd.org/MiniIN/files/ ? 10:37:40 <Darkvater> when? 10:37:49 <Lachlan> yesterday evening 10:38:25 <Darkvater> miniin's are still from dec 31 so it should work 10:38:35 <Darkvater> but I've never used it 10:38:50 <Lachlan> yes, I checked the revision before I started the server 10:40:29 *** ProfFrink [~proffrink@82-43-58-81.cable.ubr04.croy.blueyonder.co.uk] has joined #openttd 10:40:29 *** Prof_Frink [~proffrink@82-43-58-81.cable.ubr04.croy.blueyonder.co.uk] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:40:30 <Darkvater> sorry no idea 10:40:37 *** ProfFrink is now known as Prof_Frink 10:40:46 <Lachlan> Hah... 10:40:59 <Lachlan> thanks for your help anyway 10:41:55 <peter1138> so what did ldd do? 10:42:18 <Lachlan> :o 10:42:22 <Lachlan> permission denied 10:43:24 <peter1138> o_O 10:43:26 <Darkvater> nice find peter1138 :) 10:43:48 <peter1138> any further as root? heh 10:43:51 <Lachlan> hmm... 10:43:58 <peter1138> possible a lib has incorrect permissions 10:44:10 <Lachlan> argh 10:44:53 <Lachlan> darn... I'll just leave hosting the game to other people 10:45:02 <Lachlan> thanks anyway, guys 10:46:52 <peter1138> hmm 10:47:30 <Lachlan> I don't want to go messing around with the server because it's not mine :p 10:48:13 <Lachlan> and hmm.. peter1138, would you like to be on the NSW Set testing list again? 10:48:24 <Lachlan> if anything, just to get an email once a week that you never open? 10:48:49 <caladan> ok, got to go... 10:48:56 <peter1138> ok 10:49:01 <peter1138> do i get to play with ausland too? ;) 10:49:06 <peter1138> or is that separate 10:49:12 <Darkvater> North American Station Set? 10:49:13 <Lachlan> peter1138, yes, you do 10:49:25 <Lachlan> Darkvater, what? 10:49:36 * Darkvater crawls back into his hole 10:53:20 <Darkvater> Lachlan: nothing ;) 10:53:55 <Lachlan> we're talking about the Australian Set, with that's what you mean 10:53:56 <Darkvater> a word of advice: if you make a minidump with code segments, do NOT install kerio firewall on XP cause you'll get a BSOD every time 10:54:25 <Darkvater> ah ok 10:54:34 <peter1138> huh? hmm 10:55:18 * peter1138 benchmarks more 10:55:47 <peter1138> i need to run a couple of dozen tests to get some average results... hh 10:56:20 <Zuu> I'm going to make a patch for a bug I found in RC2, ( http://bugs.openttd.org/task/504 ). As far as I know RC2 is in its own branch != trunk. What is the name of this RC2-branch? 10:56:42 <Rubidium> /branches/0.5 10:56:47 <peter1138> if the bug is in trunk too, make a patch for trunk 10:56:59 <Zuu> Only trunk or both? 10:57:11 <peter1138> only trunk. we can backport 10:57:17 <Zuu> Okay. Thanks 10:57:39 <peter1138> unless it's wildly different, heh 10:58:14 <peter1138> what's the solution, btw? disable building of airports larger than the max station spread might be feasible... 10:59:17 *** Wolfenstiejn [~wolf@h33048.upc-h.chello.nl] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 11:00:06 <Zuu> It is more a fix than a soulution. I'll change RECT_MODE_TRY to RECT_MODE_TEST in the second call to StationRect_BeforeAddRect(..). 11:00:08 <Darkvater> Zuu: just for reference: your linux version "crashes" because you have assertions enabled. The windows one simply ignores the assertion 11:00:30 <Zuu> Darkvater: Okay 11:00:51 <hylje> and we run assertions enabled since we want bugs squashed 11:00:53 <Darkvater> perhaps I should've enabled assertions for release candidates... 11:01:13 <Darkvater> well, next time :) 11:01:53 <Zuu> Another fix would be to change the assertion so that airports will be let though. But I guess is better to redesign the place where the function is called (where the assertion is) than the other way around. 11:03:01 <Brianetta> Darkvater: assertion (assert_enabled) failed... continuing 11:03:34 <Darkvater> mine always crashes :) 11:04:11 <Brianetta> I'm sure there's a way to get the compiler to notify you of failed assertions, rather than halting execution 11:04:16 <Celestar> KUDr: and? any paper on the concept? :) 11:04:29 <KUDr> incomplete yet 11:04:39 <KUDr> do you want to see it? 11:05:34 <blathijs> Brianetta: The thing is, when an assertion fails, the program usually ended up in a very bad state 11:05:50 <Celestar> KUDr: of course :) 11:06:45 <Brianetta> blathijs: That's a judgement call, surely? 11:06:50 <KUDr> Celestar:, blathijs: http://mazanec1.netbox.cz/patches/stacked_tiles.txt 11:06:58 <Brianetta> You might just be asserting that there's a path for a train before it asses a signal 11:07:02 *** Belugas_Gone [~Jfranc@216.191.111.226] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 11:07:09 <KUDr> not yet complete, but we can talk about it 11:07:20 <Celestar> Brianetta: an assert means something bad has happened 11:07:29 <Celestar> Darkvater: want your opinion on this as well 11:07:38 <Brianetta> Celestar: An assert means that the developer assert()ed something, and that wasn't the case 11:08:35 <Celestar> Brianetta: yes, and the developer usually damn well knew why he asserted it :) 11:08:39 <Celestar> KUDr: ok 11:08:43 <Celestar> I understand point 1) 11:08:54 <KUDr> good 11:09:29 <KUDr> as you can see it saves memory 11:09:31 <Celestar> I'm not sure we want the pools, a normally malloc/realloc might be better, because they are much faster 11:09:50 <Celestar> but maybe we should just go for 'small', 'medium', 'large' 11:09:56 <Celestar> 'xlarge' 11:09:56 <Darkvater> so is water now directly inside map or in small? 11:09:57 <KUDr> pool is term for any virtual array 11:10:29 *** Belugas_Gone [~Jfranc@216.191.111.226] has joined #openttd 11:10:30 *** mode/#openttd [+o Belugas_Gone] by ChanServ 11:10:47 <KUDr> Darkvater: if there is bridge over it than in small 11:11:04 <KUDr> otherwise directly in the map 11:11:14 <blathijs> Brianetta: There are probably cases where you can continue after a failed assertion, but 9 times out of 10 the program will segfault or something very soon 11:12:01 <Celestar> so we have 'xlarge' tiles (houses), 'large' (tiles, stations, road, rail) ... and so on 11:12:32 <Celestar> KUDr: I think we should all drop then in one of the 3 or 4 size bins, no matter whether there is a bridge above or not 11:12:56 <Celestar> but we add one level of indirection at least. we need to find out how that impacts performance 11:13:48 <KUDr> Celestar: bridge above would require that [index+1] contains layered tile so it must be different 11:14:03 <blathijs> KUDr: You assumption 4 is nasty, leave it out if you can (the contigious part) 11:14:21 <Celestar> ok .. 10 bytes (xlarge), 8 bytes(large), 6 bytes (medium), 4 bytes(small) 11:14:27 <Celestar> whab about this: 11:14:32 <KUDr> blathijs: right 11:15:01 *** scia [~scia@AveloN.xs4all.nl] has joined #openttd 11:15:04 <Celestar> typedef struct Tile { byte type; void *data; } Tile; 11:15:21 <blathijs> and using implicit tile links can be troublesome 11:15:30 <blathijs> implicit == the tile above is index + 1 11:15:41 <Celestar> so we are flexible and have readable code. 11:16:02 *** Guest56 [~Gono@N880P013.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has joined #openttd 11:16:07 <blathijs> that means you need to either reserver indices for later, or need to move around tiles to different indices with sufficient space around it 11:16:07 <Celestar> and then we basically (cast) data to what it really is. 11:16:28 <Celestar> shall I try that? 11:16:59 <KUDr> <blathijs> and using implicit tile links can be troublesome << no - the same concept as MS CLI has 11:17:33 <blathijs> Microsoft command line interface? 11:17:49 * blathijs thinks MS has not produces any usable CLI's so far, so I'm curious :-) 11:18:02 <KUDr> hehe 11:18:22 <KUDr> but their memory allocation concept is perfect 11:18:25 <Celestar> so what about my idea? 11:18:34 <blathijs> KUDr: Explain the concept? 11:18:40 <KUDr> it makes it faster than java for many cases 11:18:46 <blathijs> Celestar: I'm trying to picture it 11:18:53 <Celestar> blathijs: I'll draw it up, k? 11:18:54 <KUDr> 1) alloc from down to top 11:19:13 <KUDr> 2) once full, you 'compress' it by moving down 11:19:19 <blathijs> Celestar: you mean using a Tile struct for all sizes of tile? 11:19:21 <KUDr> so you fill gaps 11:19:43 <KUDr> and if you need to expand, you simply realloc 11:19:54 <Celestar> blathijs: I'll draw it up, wait :) 11:19:58 <KUDr> no 11:20:05 <KUDr> use largest needed 11:20:11 <blathijs> KUDr: Well, moving tiles is a costly operation (though it can be done by moving pointers in the new pool) 11:20:21 <blathijs> KUDr: but tiles chaning indices is hard 11:20:22 <KUDr> hehe 11:20:23 <KUDr> nope 11:20:31 <KUDr> it happens rarely 11:20:32 <blathijs> KUDr: You need to update _all_ references too 11:20:49 <KUDr> this is another point 11:21:08 <KUDr> not all refs, but only one 11:21:11 <KUDr> in the map 11:21:29 <blathijs> how about vehicle->tile or order->target? 11:21:31 <KUDr> because all = 1 11:21:32 <blathijs> that kinda stuff 11:21:41 <KUDr> they hold index into map 11:21:43 <KUDr> as now 11:21:58 <blathijs> then how do you know at what level your vehicle is? 11:22:01 <KUDr> where is index of pool and index of tile insde pool 11:22:13 *** Gonozal_VIII [~Gono@N880P013.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 11:22:19 <KUDr> what level? 11:22:23 <KUDr> z coord 11:22:37 <KUDr> so you locate your tile easily 11:22:40 <blathijs> so, you include a z coord in all references 11:22:42 <blathijs> hmmkay 11:22:56 *** Prof_Frink [~proffrink@82-43-58-81.cable.ubr04.croy.blueyonder.co.uk] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:22:58 *** FlashFF [~flashff@80-193-4-162.cable.ubr05.gill.blueyonder.co.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 11:22:58 *** Prof_Frink [~proffrink@82-43-58-81.cable.ubr04.croy.blueyonder.co.uk] has joined #openttd 11:23:03 <KUDr> not in references 11:23:17 <KUDr> i don't understand you 11:23:26 <KUDr> who needs it? 11:23:30 <KUDr> vehicles only 11:23:32 <blathijs> references in the general sense 11:23:44 <blathijs> not C++ reference sense 11:23:45 <KUDr> everything else can now be only on surface 11:23:58 <KUDr> and surface is where the index points 11:23:59 <blathijs> You're doing the "only now" thing ;-p 11:24:12 <KUDr> :) not C++ sense 11:24:21 <KUDr> why? 11:24:22 *** Guest56 is now known as Gonozal_VIII 11:24:42 <KUDr> if you need z-coord in depot, you can add it to the depot structure 11:24:46 <peter1138> damn, i need to test unifont 11:24:50 <peter1138> but czech won't compile :P 11:25:09 <blathijs> KUDr: k, agredd 11:25:18 <KUDr> blathijs: you must misunderstood it totally if you tell that it is 'only for now' 11:25:26 <Darkvater> I think what kudr means is that everything is on the surface by default. If a vehicle is on a bridge, it's on a submap, or whatever else anyways, and it has some variable pointing there. Then it doesn't matter if you check stack or submap cause you have to check something 11:25:58 <blathijs> Darkvater: You could just use a direct pointer to a tile, regardless wheter it is surface or not 11:26:07 <blathijs> Darkvater: but, I see the point 11:26:37 <KUDr> : then it is unmovable memory block 11:26:40 <Darkvater> well or something, indirection, direct pointer to stack, etc. 11:26:54 <KUDr> you need managable memory 11:27:21 <KUDr> so no pointers or indices to layers 11:27:39 <KUDr> only tile indices + z coord 11:28:02 <KUDr> an z coord can be part of TileIndex 11:28:05 <Darkvater> < lucnh 11:28:41 <KUDr> < nicotine 11:28:57 <blathijs> KUDr: You need to make a distinction between reference to a tile (including z index) or reference to a XY location 11:29:06 <blathijs> currently those are the same 11:29:52 <Maedhros> morning 11:31:17 <roboboy> ive noticed on MP servers there arent many oil refineries 11:31:50 <peter1138> yes, it's a TGP problem 11:31:55 <peter1138> well, caused by 11:32:13 <peter1138> basically there are not enough flat areas suitable for them.. 11:33:46 <KUDr> blathijs: XY is addressed by one part of TileInex 11:33:53 <KUDr> so no problem here 11:33:59 <CIA-1> peter1138 * r7795 /trunk/src/ (newgrf.c newgrf_config.c): 11:33:59 <CIA-1> -Codechange: [NewGRF] When safety checking, allow an Action E that force 11:33:59 <CIA-1> activates the GRF. Unfortunately this requires knowing the GRF ID in advance 11:33:59 <CIA-1> (before the Action 8) so the static GRFs are now scanned twice on start up, once 11:33:59 <CIA-1> for the GRF ID, and then for the safety check. (This fix allows unifont.grf to 11:34:00 <CIA-1> be used.) 11:34:10 *** Progman [~progman@p57A1F29F.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 11:35:07 <KUDr> <peter1138> basically there are not enough flat areas suitable for them.. << look at subtopical maps << the same concept can be for all climates 11:35:19 <KUDr> only richk67 did't like it 11:35:26 <blathijs> KUDr: yes, but you still need some way to address XY without the Z part :-) 11:35:52 <KUDr> blathijs: is it problem to just ignore the z part? 11:36:01 <KUDr> and you have it 11:36:41 <KUDr> i told you that you misunderstood the point 11:36:44 <KUDr> :) 11:36:48 <roboboy> will it be fixed for 0.5.0 final 11:39:19 <blathijs> KUDr: yes, that is a problem 11:39:37 <blathijs> KUDr: Since it is confusing and spoils memory (even just a little) 11:39:45 *** Lachlan [me@58.164.77.26] has quit [Quit: Lachlan] 11:39:53 <KUDr> no it saves memory 11:39:59 <KUDr> 4 bytes instead of 8 11:40:05 <KUDr> for plain tiles 11:40:35 <blathijs> "Just ignoring the Z part" is confusing and spoils memory 11:40:40 <blathijs> the memory for the z part 11:40:54 <blathijs> I'm saying you should just have a typedef to reference XY locations on the map 11:41:00 <KUDr> no - it fits into 4 bytes of TileIndex 11:41:01 <Celestar> blathijs: KUDr 11:41:05 <Celestar> http://www.fvfischer.de/ottd/new_map_concept.txt 11:41:06 <blathijs> and a seperate typedef to reference XYZ locations on the map 11:41:07 <Celestar> please load 11:41:50 * stillunknown has gotten to the point of making trains aware of their positions on a bridge 11:42:47 <KUDr> Celestar: this wastes memory 11:42:52 <Celestar> KUDr: how so? 11:43:04 <KUDr> typedef struct Tile { 11:43:04 <KUDr> void *data; 11:43:25 <peter1138> mmm, 8 bytes per tile 11:43:26 <peter1138> or 4 11:43:32 <Celestar> peter1138: yes. 11:43:47 <KUDr> my concept sves 4 bytes 11:43:50 <Celestar> similar to TilePtr 11:43:52 <KUDr> saves 11:44:07 <Celestar> KUDr: please remember that the problem is not RAM, the problem is savegame size. 11:44:22 <Celestar> where pointers are converted to indices anyway 11:44:29 <KUDr> it has no influence to map size 11:44:35 <KUDr> huh 11:44:38 <KUDr> savegame size 11:44:39 <Maedhros> heh, this is new map array scheme 12, by the looks of http://wiki.openttd.org/index.php/MapRewrite :) 11:44:50 <Celestar> KUDr: the whole problem is map size is the savegame size. 11:44:58 <Celestar> Maedhros: about yes. 11:45:12 <Celestar> KUDr: the whole problem with map size is the savegame size. 11:45:16 <KUDr> Celestar: savegame size can be the same 11:45:21 <blathijs> Celestar: I think we can really improve on savegame size by just storing the relevant part of a tile, depending on the tile type 11:45:31 <Celestar> blathijs: that's why the void pointer 11:45:34 <KUDr> it doen't matter how you store it in memory 11:45:56 <KUDr> and you need to save RAM as well 11:46:14 <Celestar> depends :P 11:46:16 <blathijs> Celestar: ie, what KUDr does in memory can be in savegames as well 11:46:19 <Celestar> _I_ don't 11:46:29 <Celestar> :P 11:46:42 <Celestar> got 4 gigs in my workstation and 2 gigs in my laptop 11:46:44 <Celestar> :) 11:46:50 <Celestar> where's Darkvater 11:47:00 <Zuu> What other files than the code itself should I edit before I create a patch? 11:47:02 <KUDr> Celestar: but not all users have it 11:47:04 <blathijs> I'm wondering if we should bother with memory savings a lot... 11:47:09 <Zuu> Should I include my name somewhere? 11:47:18 <Celestar> blathijs: we need to bother with savegame savings, not memory savings 11:47:37 <KUDr> Celestar: so why not full 3d map :) 11:47:41 <peter1138> we need to bother with memory savings 11:47:48 <Celestar> KUDr: if you can efficiently store it :P 11:47:53 <blathijs> KUDr: We should not _not_ bother with memory that much 11:47:54 <Celestar> peter1138: yes, but not THAT much 11:48:04 <KUDr> Celestar: of course 11:48:06 <peter1138> simutrans is almost unusable at large map sizes because of it 11:48:15 <KUDr> unused tiles won't be saved 11:48:17 <Celestar> peter1138: simutrans has about 128 BYTES per tile. 11:48:31 <KUDr> heh 120? 11:48:51 <KUDr> too much 11:48:58 <Celestar> I'm talking about less that we have now, plus a pointer. 11:49:42 <KUDr> but if you don't need the pointer (for most tiles) you can use it by data 11:49:46 <stillunknown> Celestar: interrested in a first doing something patch? 11:49:50 <KUDr> and you get my concept 11:49:58 <Celestar> so even with 32 bytes per tile a 1024x1024 map is 32 MBytes. 11:49:59 <KUDr> so what is wrong on it? 11:50:02 <Celestar> stillunknown: go ahead 11:50:06 <Zuu> Just checking, is "svn diff > airport_fix.patch" the preferable way to make a patch? 11:50:23 <blathijs> Zuu: yes 11:50:24 <Celestar> KUDr: I'd say ether TileTypes is the types, or TileTypes is small, medium, large, not a mixture. 11:50:27 <Celestar> Zuu: yeah 11:50:53 <KUDr> Celestar: i don't understand 11:50:55 <blathijs> KUDr: I'd say every tile of a given type has the same size, so we can just use a lookup table 11:51:03 <blathijs> s/KUDr/Celestar/ 11:51:22 <Celestar> blathijs: I don't understand. 11:51:47 *** BurningFeetMan [~chatzilla@CPE-60-227-105-136.nsw.bigpond.net.au] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:52:43 <stillunknown> my usual place is acting up, is there any place patches can be posted? 11:52:55 <peter1138> forums 11:52:56 <peter1138> bugs 11:53:03 <peter1138> pastebin 11:53:03 <peter1138> heh 11:53:06 <Celestar> ^^ 11:53:20 <caladan> is there agreement how the tiles and map should look like? 11:53:27 <Celestar> caladan: nope :P 11:53:34 <Celestar> but a fruitful discussion 11:53:38 <Celestar> :) 11:54:05 <blathijs> Celestar: You can just store the tiletype (station, rail, etc) and determine the size (small, medium, large) from the tiletype 11:54:14 <blathijs> ie, no need to store both 11:54:20 <stillunknown> http://rafb.net/p/NqvD2u27.html 11:54:23 <Celestar> blathijs: have you read my concept? 11:54:24 <stillunknown> @Celestar 11:54:32 <Celestar> stillunknown: having a look 11:54:40 <blathijs> Celestar: Still reading, but I was responding to your 11:54:41 <stillunknown> don't except savegames to work, new or old 11:54:49 <blathijs> 12:50 < Celestar> KUDr: I'd say ether TileTypes is the types, or TileTypes is small, medium, large, not a mixture. 11:55:00 <Celestar> stillunknown: does it work? 11:55:08 <Celestar> :) 11:55:11 <stillunknown> yes, but any old savegame has all bridges wood 11:55:16 <Celestar> stillunknown: wow 11:55:22 <Celestar> KUDr: check out stillunknown's patch :) 11:55:29 <Celestar> stillunknown: that's not much of a problem ^^ 11:55:48 <stillunknown> and the memory manager has no load and save feature 11:56:16 <Celestar> of course it doesn't 11:56:17 <Zuu> Okay Patch uploaded to http://bugs.openttd.org/task/504 11:56:36 <Celestar> peter1138: blathijs: maybe you want to look at stillunknown's patch as well :) 11:56:42 <KUDr> Celestar: this is the submap concept 11:57:01 <caladan> and it has it's own simple memory management 11:57:02 <Celestar> yeah 11:57:16 <Celestar> it is, KUDr :) 11:57:20 <stillunknown> big memory management thanks to caladan 11:57:30 <KUDr> yes, but it is what we talked about - many limitations 11:57:34 <peter1138> would be better with pools 11:57:50 <caladan> i have another idea for that 11:57:52 <stillunknown> pools are complete magic 11:58:01 <Celestar> ok 11:58:09 <Celestar> Darkvater: HELP :P 11:58:40 <stillunknown> if this concept appeals enough, i will expand it to tunnels and other vehicles 11:58:42 <caladan> there should be a *custom* malloc and free 11:58:56 <Athorium> what's the last revision? 11:59:15 <Celestar> stillunknown: standby with coding, we are just discussing how that map should look in the future. 11:59:19 <Maedhros> Athorium: 7795 11:59:20 <Athorium> no more revisions or my tortoise are idiot? 11:59:33 <Athorium> oh, ok 11:59:41 <caladan> what you think of that custom malloc and free? 11:59:59 <blathijs> caladan: New pools have fast malloc/free style interface 12:00:12 <blathijs> caladan: only limitation is that all allocations are of the same size 12:00:15 <caladan> blathijs: if like this, then ok 12:00:27 <caladan> blathijs: if are the same it suxxx :] 12:00:56 <stillunknown> Celestar: i'm away for a while, let me know what comes of this discussion 12:01:00 <stillunknown> by pm 12:01:09 <Celestar> stillunknown: yeah 12:01:14 <Celestar> stillunknown: it will go on for days I think :) 12:01:31 <blathijs> caladan: What requirements do your "custom malloc/free" have? 12:01:46 <caladan> blathijs: alloc ANY needed size 12:01:59 <blathijs> lemme rephrases 12:02:00 <KUDr> stillunknown: how do you avoid overlapping submaps? 12:02:02 <blathijs> s/s$/ 12:02:17 <blathijs> caladan: In what way will your custom malloc/free be different from normal malloc/free? 12:02:21 <stillunknown> KUDr: i don't, bridges over tunnels are possible? 12:02:42 <KUDr> yes, but i mean not one ove another, but same Z 12:02:52 <stillunknown> as should bridges over bridges maybe 12:02:52 <caladan> it will keep track of mallocs, so you can free them if anythinke else forgets to 12:02:59 <stillunknown> the map has no concept of z 12:03:10 <caladan> then if the mem becomes too much fragmented you can just make it whole again 12:03:20 <KUDr> stillunknown: so two bridges can cross at same Z? 12:03:52 <peter1138> a reference count, then 12:03:53 <peter1138> heh 12:03:54 <stillunknown> atm no, because the map is just a concept now, but in the future, probably yes 12:04:02 <stillunknown> not that it should be 12:04:04 <peter1138> i remember when the newgrf stuff had a ref count 12:04:10 <blathijs> caladan: I'd say just do proper deallocating :-) 12:04:10 *** Digitalfox [~digi@bl7-176-135.dsl.telepac.pt] has joined #openttd 12:04:13 <peter1138> i ripped it all out when i replaced it with a pool 12:04:23 <stillunknown> KUDr: adding z awareness is not the issue 12:04:47 <blathijs> peter1138: "it"? 12:04:48 <KUDr> stillunknown: ok, question was if it is there already 12:04:54 <stillunknown> no 12:04:56 <peter1138> blathijs: spritegroup pool 12:05:05 <blathijs> peter1138: what did you rip out 12:05:06 <blathijs> ? 12:05:13 <peter1138> blathijs: originally it leaked memory everywhere, then i added ref counts, then i ripped out it and replaced it with a pool 12:05:21 <peter1138> err. out it -> it out 12:06:12 <stillunknown> i'm away now 12:07:06 <blathijs> peter1138: So, you never free individual items, even if they are unused? 12:07:21 <peter1138> correct 12:07:29 <caladan> huh... 12:07:35 <blathijs> So, you're still leaking, but into a controlled area :-) 12:07:38 <peter1138> no 12:07:38 <caladan> look, we need coherent memory management too 12:07:43 <peter1138> they're only created on start up 12:07:47 <peter1138> during the game it's all read only 12:08:14 <blathijs> hmmkay 12:08:31 <blathijs> peter1138: But you don't know how much items you will have before starting to load them>? 12:08:36 <peter1138> nope 12:08:51 <blathijs> k :-) 12:08:56 <peter1138> but newstatsw uses about 7000 on its own 12:10:32 * blathijs needs to get off again 12:11:49 <caladan> ok, im gone now too :D 12:12:25 <blathijs> Celestar: Why is the next pointer not in Tile* ? 12:12:37 <blathijs> Celestar: I think every tiletype requires a next pointer? 12:15:05 <blathijs> Celestar: Anyway, I like the writeup. It uses pointers, instead of indices, which is good for speed :-) 12:15:32 <blathijs> Celestar: Might require some pimping of the savegame format to properly write out, but that's doable 12:15:49 * blathijs wants more time :-) 12:16:00 <peter1138> get sacked 12:16:21 <blathijs> I don't have a job 12:16:38 <blathijs> And currently I'm not even doing much for studies either 12:16:48 <peter1138> oh 12:16:53 <blathijs> but I like too much things :-) 12:16:59 <peter1138> give them up 12:17:02 <peter1138> make ottd your only hobby 12:17:13 <KUDr> blathijs: Celestar: reload http://mazanec1.netbox.cz/patches/patches_cb.txt 12:17:20 <KUDr> there it is with pointers 12:17:23 <blathijs> i did that during the last map rewrite. Didn't work out ;-p 12:17:46 <blathijs> KUDr: Wrong url? 12:17:59 <KUDr> ohh 12:18:00 <blathijs> Fixes: the issue when non-player-based _patches setting has a callback. When such callback is specified it is not handled properly in MP games. 12:18:11 <KUDr> http://mazanec1.netbox.cz/patches/stacked_tiles.txt 12:18:22 <KUDr> blathijs: Celestar: ^^ 12:18:28 <KUDr> sorry 12:18:48 <Darkvater> you guys talk too much :) 12:19:21 * blathijs really needs to go 12:20:00 <Celestar> http://www.fvfischer.de/ottd/new_map_concept.c 12:20:12 <Celestar> updated 12:20:19 <Celestar> blathijs: because I was wrong. 12:20:56 <peter1138> new map array 2 12:21:24 <Celestar> (foo)bar->qux is the same as (foo)(bar->qux) right? 12:22:03 <Darkvater> yes 12:22:16 <Celestar> \o/ got the associativity right 12:22:26 <Celestar> remove_spelling_errors(); 12:22:42 <Celestar> hm . I get a segfault when I run that file 12:23:11 <Darkvater> Celestar: :O that's from branches/map isn't it? 12:23:22 <Celestar> Darkvater: no, that's what I did just now. 12:24:02 <Celestar> it is fundamentally different 12:24:09 <Celestar> check the "tile" struct 12:25:09 <Darkvater> how do you want to use this contigiously? Eg you hav eno idea how big your data* section will be 12:26:02 <peter1138> use a different pool depending on the size of data? 12:26:14 <peter1138> or just random malloc/frees, heh 12:26:19 <Celestar> Darkvater: you dont. 12:26:31 <Celestar> Darkvater: we run all our accessors just throughout the map. 12:26:58 <Celestar> and hope your MC is fast enough :) 12:27:00 <Darkvater> but you still have to allocate memory for your data pointer 12:27:25 <Darkvater> which is just a waste of 4/8 bytes for nothing as you were opposed to previously for the stacked approach 12:29:16 *** Digitalfox [~digi@bl7-176-135.dsl.telepac.pt] has quit [] 12:29:33 <peter1138> not for void :D 12:29:53 *** Bruno_Faria [~chatzilla@bl7-176-135.dsl.telepac.pt] has joined #openttd 12:29:55 *** Bruno_Faria is now known as Bruno 12:29:56 <Darkvater> meh? 12:30:03 <Darkvater> it's still a pointer to somewhere your real data is 12:30:23 <peter1138> MP_VOID that is 12:30:28 <Celestar> http://www.fvfischer.de/ottd/new_map_concept.c <= this compiles and runs. 12:30:36 <Darkvater> he, *slap* 12:30:37 <peter1138> sorry, i'm being silly 12:30:43 *** Bruno [~chatzilla@bl7-176-135.dsl.telepac.pt] has quit [] 12:31:18 <Celestar> well. we can put the data back to where *data; is if you guys prefer :P 12:31:47 <Darkvater> next* pointers? 12:32:00 <Celestar> to whatever is above 12:32:34 <Darkvater> so back to stack? :p 12:33:00 <Celestar> dunno 12:33:04 <Celestar> I favour the submaps 12:33:56 <Celestar> I guess we shouldn't use bitfields anyway :P 12:34:35 *** Digitalfox [~chatzilla@bl7-176-135.dsl.telepac.pt] has joined #openttd 12:34:58 <peter1138> hmm, ok, pool or realloc... 12:35:11 <Darkvater> flip coint 12:35:14 <Darkvater> eh 12:35:14 <Darkvater> -t 12:35:24 <Celestar> the question is stack or submaps :P 12:35:39 <peter1138> heads 12:35:43 <peter1138> is that pool or is that realloc? :p 12:35:50 <Darkvater> lol 12:35:53 <Celestar> whatever is faster 12:36:00 <Celestar> hm.. 12:36:06 <Celestar> what about this. 12:36:07 <Darkvater> peter1138: for which is this btw? 12:36:11 <peter1138> spritecache 12:36:13 <Darkvater> sprite/aplette? 12:36:27 <peter1138> getting on to that, yes 12:36:45 <Darkvater> the most important part is access speed 12:36:54 <Darkvater> I think realloc will win with that 12:37:13 <Celestar> ok so we've discussed for hours now and what was the result? peter1138 KUDr blathijs ? 12:37:20 *** ChrisM87 [~ChrisM@p54AC76CF.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 12:37:53 *** DennisS [~dennis@kleekamp.stosberg.net] has joined #openttd 12:39:12 <Darkvater> Celestar: do you really think you'll get an answer this soon? :) Thiking back to maprewrite where this took at least a few wwke 12:39:15 <Darkvater> s 12:39:25 <Celestar> :) 12:40:56 <KUDr> i would switch all to C++ first and then _m[tile_index] can still work with any layout 12:41:18 <KUDr> and then we can try different layouts 12:41:39 <KUDr> and composed indices (with z coord) 12:42:02 <KUDr> so it will get isolated from the rest of code 12:42:21 * Celestar is outta this discussion for a moment 12:42:40 <Darkvater> hehe C++ must be some magic word :p 12:43:03 <KUDr> it is << everybody hides 12:43:28 * peter1138 TIC/TOC benchmarks 12:43:33 <Celestar> hm 12:43:36 *** Sacro [~Ben@adsl-213-249-186-101.karoo.KCOM.COM] has joined #openttd 12:43:40 <peter1138> these figures don't add up 12:43:54 <Celestar> ok we don't do a map rewrite, right? 12:44:16 <KUDr> Celestar: not as it was before 12:44:23 <KUDr> smaller steps would be better 12:44:49 <KUDr> but area submaps is step aside 12:44:55 <KUDr> not forward 12:47:23 *** gass [~any@81.84.150.238] has joined #openttd 12:47:58 <Celestar> _m[tile_index] still works with any layout 12:48:05 <Celestar> why do we need C++ for that? 12:48:18 <KUDr> not with any 12:48:29 <KUDr> like different sizes 12:48:54 *** roboboy [~Leo@c211-30-116-5.carlnfd2.nsw.optusnet.com.au] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:49:14 <KUDr> sizeof(Tile) can be variable 12:49:30 <KUDr> and tiles can be stacked 12:49:49 <Celestar> isn't that possible in C99 ? 12:50:01 <KUDr> we should break the current limitations 12:50:10 <KUDr> how? 12:50:20 <Celestar> I'm not sure 12:50:49 <KUDr> i can't imagine how CPU could know what item in the array has what size 12:51:06 <KUDr> when accessing array 12:51:25 <Celestar> I'm not sure we'Re all happy with C++ :P 12:51:33 <KUDr> but with http://mazanec1.netbox.cz/patches/stacked_tiles.txt like access it can be simpler 12:51:53 <KUDr> Celestar: code can still be C 12:51:58 <Celestar> hehe 12:52:19 * qball hacks a array size estimators and array size estimator estimator in the next intel 12:52:21 <KUDr> only for some special cases (where you can benefit from it) it will use C++ syntax 12:52:30 <Celestar> as_number? 12:52:38 <KUDr> it will hold the code simple 12:52:40 <pv2b> i can see the point in using c++ just for the templates. 12:53:13 <KUDr> pv2b: here it can help with overloaded {} indexing operator 12:53:18 <KUDr> [] 12:53:27 <pv2b> ugh. overloading :-) 12:53:31 <Celestar> KUDr: can you go on with that model? like telling me how TILE_SMALL and so on would look? 12:53:49 <pv2b> at least it makes sense for operator[] 12:53:52 <KUDr> yes, it is used heavily and is better readable than functions 12:54:12 <KUDr> Celestar: as current tiles 12:54:25 <Celestar> KUDr: and where do we put the bridge then? 12:54:27 <KUDr> except that they will need 4 more bits 12:54:34 <KUDr> in layers 12:54:52 * Celestar scratches head .. I don't get this 12:54:52 <Darkvater> http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?t=29325&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=0 12:54:57 <KUDr> do you want to see accessor for the layered tiles too? 12:54:58 <Darkvater> haha awsome thread 12:55:03 <Darkvater> peter1138: read it : 12:55:05 <Darkvater> ) 12:55:12 <Celestar> KUDr: yes.. I want to know how big a normal 1024x1024 map is :) 12:55:28 <Darkvater> that depends on what is on it 12:55:28 <KUDr> 4 MB 12:55:46 <Celestar> now how do you compute the 4 MB? 12:55:55 <Celestar> 4 bytes per clear tile? 12:56:00 <peter1138> heh 12:56:08 <peter1138> ok 12:56:21 <peter1138> my total usage going from 1.5% to 2.5% must be spurious 12:56:30 <KUDr> Celestar: each basic (simple) tile has 4 bytes (just TileInMapArray) 12:56:36 <peter1138> as with TIC/TOC() i get a 7% increase 12:57:01 <peter1138> which is 1.5% to 1.6% total 12:57:09 <Celestar> KUDr: ok could you generate some more code? like how a bridge looks .. and how we move from one bridge tile to another? 12:57:12 <KUDr> Celestar: or it can be 8 bytes (as now) 12:57:14 <peter1138> that's debugging... 12:57:20 <Darkvater> OMG 12:57:21 <peter1138> 2.6% 12:57:31 <Celestar> just like tile += GetNextBridgeTile(direction) should be possible 12:57:33 <Darkvater> I just heard we're going to switch to vista :s 12:57:36 <Celestar> KUDr: or more :) 12:57:37 <peter1138> o_ 12:57:38 <peter1138> O 12:57:43 <Celestar> Darkvater: have fun :P 12:57:47 <peter1138> hmm 12:57:49 <Darkvater> peter1138: you did tic/toc in release mode, irhgt? 12:57:57 <KUDr> Celestar: i can try... 12:58:01 <Celestar> Darkvater: I've decided that this department will not allow Visa on any computer before 2009 12:58:04 <peter1138> yes 12:58:29 <peter1138> our makefile setup doesn't allow profiling without in release mode 12:58:33 <peter1138> -out 12:58:52 <Darkvater> BUG!\ 12:59:18 <Darkvater> you can do vs2005 profiling though, the instrumentation/sampling method there works like a charm 12:59:25 <peter1138> hmm 12:59:30 <peter1138> wiat 12:59:37 <peter1138> i was TIC/TOCing the wrong thing :P 12:59:44 <peter1138> (realloc vs pool, not original) 12:59:49 <Celestar> KUDr: ok we need up to 10 bytes per tile 12:59:56 <Darkvater> hehe 12:59:56 * peter1138 adds in original figures 13:00:14 <KUDr> Celestar: 10 bytes? 13:00:22 <Brianetta> 10 bytes? No room for expansion. 13:00:39 <KUDr> for signals we will need more soon 13:00:54 <Celestar> KUDr: signals? in house tiles? 13:01:06 <peter1138> Darkvater: suck 13:01:14 <KUDr> house? 13:01:19 <Darkvater> blow 13:01:24 <Celestar> KUDr: house is the biggest tile (see newhouses) 13:01:29 <peter1138> Darkvater: compared to the current code, with realloc is 21.5% slow and pool is 24.7% slower 13:01:30 <Celestar> KUDr: rail is rather small. 13:01:41 <KUDr> now 13:01:54 <Celestar> KUDr: we don't need 32 more bits in rail ... 13:01:58 <Celestar> at least I hope not 13:01:59 <KUDr> but newsignals will need storage for negotiation data 13:02:05 <Darkvater> peter1138: ok; but that's really specific to only that part of the code. Total impact would be smaller of course 13:02:08 <Darkvater> but 13:02:15 <Darkvater> peter1138: how can realloc be 20% slower? 13:02:25 <Darkvater> I would've thought 5% max or something 13:02:28 <Celestar> KUDr: why store it in map? why not store it in the vehicle? 13:02:35 <peter1138> Darkvater: discrete arrays -> struct 13:02:38 <Celestar> realloc 20% slower than WHAT? 13:02:39 <peter1138> perhaps? 13:02:39 <Darkvater> or it's cause the compiler can't use fixed values anymore 13:02:46 <peter1138> possibly that 13:02:55 <KUDr> Celestar: it is property of signal, not vehicle 13:03:06 <Celestar> KUDr: and what do you want to store? the vehicle index? 13:03:17 <Darkvater> peter1138: :O you coded Born_Acorn's buffer? Looking mighty good 13:03:32 <KUDr> Celestar: maybe 4 veh indices 13:03:39 <Darkvater> although half-snow-buffer-tile would be great ^^ 13:03:49 <KUDr> for 4 signal/direction combinations 13:03:59 <Celestar> KUDr: you have a very different idea on newsignalling than I do :) 13:04:16 <KUDr> heh maybe 13:04:20 *** GoneWacko [~gonewacko@c18041.upc-c.chello.nl] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:04:29 <Celestar> I need about 4 bits for what I have in mind for newsignalling 13:04:41 *** GoneWacko [~gonewacko@c18041.upc-c.chello.nl] has joined #openttd 13:04:43 <Brianetta> newsignalling (: (: (: 13:05:12 <KUDr> Celestar: and therefore you think that your concept is better and less limiting for the future? 13:05:41 <Celestar> KUDr: I'm just not fond of the idea of having 4 bytes of vehicle indices in the map array :) 13:05:41 <peter1138> Darkvater: i did, yes 13:05:41 <KUDr> I am talking about design, not first step 13:05:53 <Celestar> KUDr: what will the signal need the vehicle index for? 13:06:11 <KUDr> Celestar: if map array can be dynamic-sized why not 13:06:15 <Celestar> KUDr: but even theoretically, I'd say a maximum of 2 vehicle indices. as there cannot be more than 2 trains per tile. 13:06:36 <peter1138> Darkvater: heee, in debug mode, realloc is 8% slower, and the pool 16% 13:06:45 <peter1138> guess the optimisation really helps with the fixed array 13:06:58 <Brianetta> Celestar: How many ships can there be? 13:07:05 <Brianetta> I'm sure there can be four road vehicles 13:07:06 <Darkvater> :) 13:07:07 <Celestar> ships don't have signals 13:07:30 *** KritiK [~Maxim@ppp85-141-227-143.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #openttd 13:07:39 <Brianetta> Ships should explode when they touch, like trains 13:07:49 <Brianetta> That'd fix perfrmance issues with busy shipping lanes 13:08:03 <peter1138> heh 13:08:03 <Darkvater> lol @Brianetta 13:08:05 <KUDr> iCelestar: therefore i have variable tile size 13:08:11 *** GoneWacko [~gonewacko@c18041.upc-c.chello.nl] has quit [] 13:08:22 *** GoneWacko [~gonewacko@c18041.upc-c.chello.nl] has joined #openttd 13:08:24 <Celestar> KUDr: yeah ok ... :) 13:08:30 <Celestar> KUDr: I'd still like to see more code :) 13:08:32 <Tuzzy> ships capacities and speeds are out of touch with reality 13:08:38 <Darkvater> peter1138: that ~20% is then the impact during gameplay? Or did you add init to it as well? 13:08:48 <Brianetta> Tuzzy: Think of them as rowing boats 13:08:58 <Celestar> Tuzzy: I think speeds are ok, but capacity .... :S 13:09:06 <Tuzzy> well, a rowing boat might hold as much as some of these ships 13:09:08 *** RockerTimmy [~RockerTim@a82-92-123-126.adsl.xs4all.nl] has joined #openttd 13:09:10 <KUDr> Celestar: i would like to work on it but we are still discussing and i am not multithreaded (old model) 13:09:20 <peter1138> Darkvater: i skipped the bit that does loading, so just gameplay 13:09:27 <Darkvater> bummer ;) 13:09:32 <Celestar> KUDr: ok I'll leave you in peace for a bit 13:09:38 *** Brianetta [~brian@82-39-52-234.cable.ubr03.benw.blueyonder.co.uk] has quit [Quit: Tschüß] 13:09:43 <Celestar> peter1138: the whole game is 20% slower? 13:09:48 *** Brianetta [~brian@82-39-52-234.cable.ubr03.benw.blueyonder.co.uk] has joined #openttd 13:09:59 <peter1138> no, just GetRawSprite() 13:10:00 <stillunknown> slower with what? 13:12:29 <Darkvater> http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?t=29397 << rofl 13:12:57 <Darkvater> Celestar: peter1138 said something about a total impact of 1.5% 13:14:13 <peter1138> lol 13:14:19 <Celestar> Darkvater: what's the benefit? 13:14:29 <Darkvater> nothing 13:14:41 <Darkvater> but with another 20% penalty we'll get 500 million sprites ;p 13:14:52 <Celestar> hm.. 13:14:56 <Celestar> peter1138: how big is the diff? 13:15:16 <peter1138> 8KB for this bit 13:15:18 *** tokai [~tokai@p54B84A92.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 13:15:26 <Celestar> peter1138: can I have a look? 13:15:27 <peter1138> Darkvater: you can keep the static array 13:15:43 <Darkvater> sprites = malloc(500000000); 13:16:20 <peter1138> but the penalty then is... about 2.8 GB 13:16:42 <Darkvater> I don't mind a little swapping 13:16:44 <peter1138> hehe 13:16:52 <Darkvater> and its effect on savegame sizes is 0 13:16:56 <peter1138> the best bit is when it does the LRU loop 13:16:57 <Darkvater> so gog \o/ 13:17:10 <peter1138> it'll loop all those once every couple of seconds 13:17:13 <peter1138> it's a bit slow 13:17:33 <peter1138> obviously i limit the LRU loop to the number of sprites loaded, not the number of possible sprites... 13:17:41 *** glx [glx@bny93-6-82-245-156-124.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #openttd 13:17:43 *** mode/#openttd [+v glx] by ChanServ 13:18:12 <peter1138> Darkvater: savegames sizes? well i don't think anything saves sprites... 13:18:21 <peter1138> i hope that eyecandy patch has moved on since then... 13:18:29 *** tokai [~tokai@p54B84442.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #openttd 13:18:30 *** mode/#openttd [+v tokai] by ChanServ 13:18:35 <Darkvater> I was joking since Celestar said we should only worry about savegame size ;p 13:18:39 <peter1138> i know 13:23:31 * Celestar punches Darkvater 13:23:40 <Darkvater> :> 13:24:03 <peter1138> damn 13:24:07 <peter1138> i like this debug/release thing 13:24:40 <Darkvater> I almost filed a bugreport about it yesterday. Changed --enable-debug from 3 to 0 and the source just didn't want to rebuild 13:24:50 <Celestar> why not? :P 13:24:53 <Darkvater> then I realized it was in a different folder and all it did was copy the binary 13:24:59 <peter1138> it didn't need to rebuild :) 13:24:59 <Celestar> lol ok 13:28:48 <Celestar> where are those folders? :o 13:28:52 <Darkvater> bin/ 13:29:02 <Darkvater> or you mean objs/debug and objs/release 13:29:06 <Celestar> bah 13:29:09 <Celestar> stupid me 13:29:26 <Celestar> KUDr: I think I'm slowing beginning to understand what you aim for :) 13:29:59 <KUDr> hmm, slowing or beginning? 13:30:06 <Celestar> slowly beginning :P 13:31:08 <KUDr> look now at TileHeader 13:33:33 <peter1138> http://fuzzle.org/o/spritecacherealloc3.diff 13:33:42 <KUDr> it is hard to express fixed-position bitfields in C 13:35:03 <Darkvater> (sc->lru != -32768) ? 13:35:28 <peter1138> hmm 13:35:46 <Darkvater> is that some magic number for invalid lru? 13:35:48 <Darkvater> a2 13:35:50 <Darkvater> grr 13:35:51 <Darkvater> a2 13:35:54 <peter1138> pass 13:35:54 <Darkvater> jezus 13:36:06 <hylje> WTF 13:36:15 <hylje> yapf road vehicles are fucking crazu 13:36:22 *** gass [~any@81.84.150.238] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 13:36:23 <peter1138> crazu! 13:36:25 <hylje> they get confused if the roads have loops in them 13:36:46 *** gass [~any@81.84.150.238] has joined #openttd 13:40:38 <stillunknown> Celestar: did you and KUDr reach some kind of agreement? 13:40:58 <KUDr> stillunknown still discussing 13:41:01 <qball> hmmm what algorithm does YAPF use? 13:41:04 <KUDr> don't hurry 13:41:15 <KUDr> qball: A* 13:43:05 <stillunknown> KUDr: you talked about something called stacked tiles 13:43:44 <KUDr> yes, blathijs's idea 13:43:53 <stillunknown> are there docs on that? 13:44:00 <KUDr> and seems better (more flexible) 13:44:14 <KUDr> at least for the future improvements 13:44:53 <stillunknown> anything written down about how that would be done? 13:46:11 <KUDr> working on it 13:54:05 <Celestar> stillunknown: there was some early prototype two years ago or something 13:54:12 <Celestar> and we're reviving it 13:55:34 <CIA-1> rubidium * r7796 /trunk/ (config.lib src/strgen/strgen.c): (log message trimmed) 13:55:34 <CIA-1> -Fix (r7759): cygwin does not need to rewrite the paths for strgen. 13:55:34 <CIA-1> -Fix (r7759): supply the correct flags to cygwin to make it compile. 13:55:34 <CIA-1> Note: cygwin itself is 'broken'. Known issues with cygwin are: 13:55:34 <CIA-1> - bash does not work when including files that have dos line ending (\r\n). 13:55:36 <CIA-1> This causes the strange errors in config.lib. The solution is running: 13:55:38 <CIA-1> dos2unix config.lib 13:57:35 *** Purno [~Purno@5351CE08.cable.casema.nl] has joined #openttd 13:57:35 *** DennisS [~dennis@kleekamp.stosberg.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:57:35 <Sacro> Rubidium: or telling people to choose the right line endings when installing cygwin 13:57:51 <KUDr> Celestar: stillunknown: some update, still incomplete >> http://mazanec1.netbox.cz/patches/stacked_tiles.txt 13:58:09 *** Purno [~Purno@5351CE08.cable.casema.nl] has quit [] 13:58:31 *** Purno [~Purno@5351CE08.cable.casema.nl] has joined #openttd 13:58:45 <Rubidium> Sacro: bash should work with either '\r\n' and '\n', especially on windows 13:59:03 <Sacro> Rubidium: its strange that it doesnt actually... 13:59:33 <glx> KUDr: little error in struct ClearTile 13:59:50 <KUDr> :) 13:59:56 <KUDr> more errors 14:00:27 <KUDr> should be TreesTile 14:00:33 <glx> indeed it's the second ClearTile that is a TreesTile (and the hdr has wrong type) 14:00:35 <KUDr> the second one 14:00:50 *** Digitalfox [~chatzilla@bl7-176-135.dsl.telepac.pt] has quit [Quit: Bye Bye...] 14:00:59 <KUDr> ahh 14:01:06 <KUDr> reload 14:01:56 <glx> better :) 14:02:34 <glx> of course all *Tile struct should be typedef to be used in struct Tile ;) 14:02:59 <KUDr> no 14:03:03 <KUDr> they will be C++ 14:03:07 <KUDr> :) 14:04:07 <KUDr> in C++ you can make fixed bitfields (i.e. lowest 2 bits will be always size_category) 14:04:33 <KUDr> or we can use C and accessors for all members 14:04:42 <Celestar> KUDr: reading 14:05:02 <KUDr> Celestar: GetUpperLayer() 14:05:08 <Celestar> no bitfields for savegames 14:05:12 <Celestar> KUDr: back in 10 14:05:15 <Celestar> *reading* 14:05:29 <KUDr> reload 14:06:55 <KUDr> Celestar: the main reason why we should switch to C++ (at least formally) is type safety 14:07:56 <KUDr> and then many other benefits of course like eliminating enumaration marcos (FOR_ALL_VEHISLES and so on) 14:09:15 <Athorium> how a town without any transport can reach 72.000 pob? :S 14:11:19 *** Belugas_Gone is now known as Belugas 14:13:35 <stillunknown> KUDr: you want to store two pointers in every tile on the map? 14:14:13 <KUDr> no 14:14:44 *** Hadez [~chatzilla@151.244.broadband7.iol.cz] has joined #openttd 14:15:03 <KUDr> stillunknown: where do you see that? 14:15:18 <KUDr> regular tile can be 4 bytes only ionstead of 8 14:16:24 <stillunknown> no misread, but now i wonder how you will know which tile is small, medium or big and what tile is what? 14:16:47 <KUDr> lowest 2 bits are size_category 14:17:00 <KUDr> TileSizeCategory 14:17:20 <KUDr> when used as pointer, you clear those 2 bits 14:17:46 <stillunknown> regular tile will still be 8 bytes if it contains a pointer 14:17:46 *** Mizipzor [~Mizipzor@c-b66370d5.020-16-6b736810.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #openttd 14:17:56 <KUDr> when used as SimpleTile it must have those 2 bits shared - also defined as size_category; 14:18:09 <KUDr> can be 4 14:18:18 <KUDr> pointer has 4 bits 14:18:30 <KUDr> (at least on 32 bit systems) 14:18:43 *** DennisS [~dennis@kleekamp.stosberg.net] has joined #openttd 14:18:51 <glx> KUDr: you mean bytes 14:18:52 <KUDr> on 64 bit systems you don't care about few megs RAM 14:18:56 <KUDr> yes 14:18:58 <KUDr> sorry 14:19:07 <KUDr> didn't sleep enough ;) 14:19:34 <stillunknown> i care :-) 14:19:52 <KUDr> but is is not mandatory to keep tile size on 4 bytes 14:19:57 <KUDr> just an option 14:20:18 <KUDr> stillunknown: on 64 bit OS you care about few megs? 14:21:12 <stillunknown> i always keep an eye on memory usage, but if the improvement is worth it, i don't mind 14:21:21 <KUDr> then switch to 32 14:21:28 <KUDr> and you save a lot 14:21:48 <KUDr> 64 bit OS consumes so much and no improvement at all 14:22:13 <KUDr> so what you just told became nonsense 14:22:32 <stillunknown> i'll consider is if/when i reinstall my os 14:22:51 <KUDr> you can have 2 OS installed 14:22:56 <KUDr> or more 14:23:15 <KUDr> what kind you use (win or linux) 14:23:20 <stillunknown> linux 14:23:25 <KUDr> ahh 14:23:35 <KUDr> so then it is not so much consuming 14:23:46 <stillunknown> setting up a new os is not fun 14:24:02 <stillunknown> it took me a long time to get it were i want 14:24:25 <stillunknown> but i guess you are right 14:24:35 <stillunknown> i shouldn't complain about memory 14:24:42 <stillunknown> knowing pointers are twice the size 14:25:21 <KUDr> yes, having longer pointers is your choice, not dev's 14:26:07 <stillunknown> but still the size of the struct should become 8 bytes on a 64 bit system 14:26:24 <stillunknown> otherwise strange things happen :-) 14:27:04 *** scia [~scia@AveloN.xs4all.nl] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 14:28:22 <KUDr> yes 14:28:44 <stillunknown> KUDr: "your" idea, can that be put into the game gradually 14:28:45 <KUDr> or you can use indices (30 bits) instead of pointers 14:28:57 <KUDr> yes 14:29:12 <KUDr> and can be extended later 14:29:40 <KUDr> but would be much easier to do it in C++ 14:29:59 <KUDr> this is only the reason why i didn't do it already 14:30:09 <KUDr> that here C++ is unwanted 14:30:20 <stillunknown> does openttd even compile "as c++"? 14:30:30 <KUDr> no 14:30:38 <KUDr> needs many typecasts 14:30:43 <KUDr> the code is dirty 14:30:54 <KUDr> because C doesn't care 14:30:59 <Darkvater> it has been stained. We need vanish ultra!\ 14:31:03 <KUDr> and C++ does 14:31:27 <stillunknown> can't the map be written in c++ and provide wrapper functions in headers for the c part? 14:31:31 <Celestar> KUDr: the N_corner_z are the offsets? 14:31:46 <KUDr> Darkvater: good ide, i will tell my wife to clean it 14:31:58 <Celestar> KUDr: to base_z ? 14:32:03 *** Gonozal_VIII [~Gono@N880P013.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 14:32:11 <Darkvater> KUDr: ^^ 14:32:14 <KUDr> Celestar: i dunno, it can be offset in corner 14:32:23 <KUDr> or whatever you like 14:32:24 <Darkvater> sorry I'm a bit ....eh 'stoned'-like 14:32:32 <Celestar> KUDr: ok but make that 2 bits :P 14:32:36 <Darkvater> had a read in the tt-forums off-topic section really screws with you 14:32:39 <KUDr> i don't care about how height is stored 14:32:49 <Celestar> KUDr: neither do I (at the moment) 14:33:12 <stillunknown> KUDr: can't the map be written in c++ and provide wrapper functions in headers for the c part? 14:33:15 <KUDr> Celestar: or it can be lookup table based (16 types) 14:33:19 <Celestar> int GetTileIndexZCoord(TileIndex tile) 14:33:19 <Celestar> { return GB(tile, 28, 4); 14:33:20 <Celestar> } 14:33:26 <Celestar> how is this supposed to work? 14:33:52 <KUDr> stillunknown: it can, but you lost inlining in many cases (from C to C++) 14:34:05 <KUDr> so it can be performance hit 14:34:10 *** Gonozal_VIII [~Gono@62.47.47.144] has joined #openttd 14:34:26 <KUDr> and you can't use overloaded [] operator 14:35:09 <KUDr> <Celestar> int GetTileIndexZCoord(TileIndex tile) << yes, for composite indices (xyz) 14:35:21 <KUDr> to tell also z 14:35:57 <KUDr> lower 28 bits is just index into map array 14:36:08 <Celestar> KUDr: ok suppose I'm on a tile. it has two crossing bridges on it. I'm on the upper of those two and try to find the Tile which stores the next bit of the bridge. How do I find it? 14:36:12 <KUDr> and highest 4 bits are requested Z 14:36:19 <Celestar> KUDr: I see 14:36:39 <KUDr> but it can be stored separatelly 14:36:39 <Celestar> but I'd make that 5 bits :P 14:36:41 *** scia [~scia@AveloN.xs4all.nl] has joined #openttd 14:36:43 <Celestar> don't care 14:36:47 <KUDr> ok, 5 14:36:51 <KUDr> we can have 8 14:36:59 <KUDr> 24 bits will be ok for index 14:37:14 <Celestar> well, ... details details 14:37:33 <KUDr> start your imagination 14:37:46 <KUDr> what more details you need to know 14:38:07 <KUDr> memory allocation management? 14:38:10 <KUDr> or what? 14:38:21 <Celestar> KUDr: 1) the question above 14:38:47 <Celestar> and I'm not sure what this _asnumber & ~0x3 stuff is .. 14:38:52 <Celestar> but ok, go on :) 14:39:03 <KUDr> aha 14:39:08 <KUDr> 'which stores the next bit of the bridge'? 14:39:22 <KUDr> like connected rail piece? 14:39:24 *** setrodox [~setrodox@83-65-234-231.dynamic.xdsl-line.inode.at] has joined #openttd 14:40:00 <KUDr> you have your tile index+z stored in "TileIndex tile;" 14:40:21 <KUDr> and you do += TileOffsetByDir() 14:40:37 <KUDr> and then call Tile* GetTile(TileIndex tile) 14:40:45 <Celestar> so it should be easy and fast, right? 14:40:47 <KUDr> to get the tile itself 14:40:55 <KUDr> should be 14:41:00 <KUDr> slower than now 14:41:03 <Celestar> that's all I care about :P 14:41:04 <KUDr> of course 14:41:17 <Celestar> yeah, the question is.. how much slower :) 14:41:48 <KUDr> but should be same speed as my supertile based map in the past (C++ experiment from one year ago) 14:41:55 <KUDr> and it was fast enough 14:42:02 <stillunknown> one thing i do not get, the ground map contains pointers to special tiles if needed 14:42:13 <CIA-1> peter1138 * r7797 /trunk/src/spritecache.c: -Codechange: Replace static _sprite_ptr and associated arrays with dynamic array to allow variable number of sprites. This does not change the sprite limit. 14:42:15 <stillunknown> but where do the pointers to Z>0 go? 14:42:49 <KUDr> Celestar: it depends, we can make t even faster than now if inside functions we will use Tile* instead of TileIndex 14:43:04 <Celestar> yeah 14:43:07 <KUDr> and for accessors arguments too 14:43:17 <Celestar> KUDr: how difficult would it be to convert the current map to this is the question 14:43:20 <KUDr> one more line usually 14:43:26 <KUDr> and faster access 14:44:04 <KUDr> having it already in C++ it is like one month 14:44:21 <KUDr> with C like 3 moths 14:44:26 <Celestar> the question is .. how many platforms will we break? 14:44:27 <KUDr> or more for me 14:44:30 <Celestar> hehe 14:44:35 <Celestar> we could join forces 14:44:42 <KUDr> platforms? 14:44:50 <KUDr> C++ is fully portable 14:44:54 <Celestar> do we have any idea where YAPFs compiles and where it doesn't ? 14:45:18 <KUDr> if you find any system that doesnt support C++ then i wouldn't call it 'platforms' 14:45:24 <Celestar> lol 14:45:49 <Celestar> KUDr: but that would postpone scripting and newsignalling, right? 14:45:51 <Celestar> :P 14:45:54 <Darkvater> we don't break any supported platforms with C++. Perhaps PSP, XBOX or something, but that was always some user-hobby that showed up once 14:45:56 <KUDr> squirrel is also written in C++ 14:46:08 <Celestar> .oO(I don't care about scripting, I just care about signalling) 14:46:36 <stillunknown> if a complete new map system is mase 14:46:38 <stillunknown> *made 14:46:49 <KUDr> Celestar: you should not orient to one thing only and stay blind to others 14:46:53 <stillunknown> it would be unwise to start with signalling 14:47:53 <Celestar> stillunknown: that is true 14:48:01 <KUDr> how? 14:48:15 <stillunknown> how what? 14:48:18 <KUDr> with new map we will not need signalling? 14:48:27 <Celestar> KUDr: if Darkvater and peter1138 are ok with that, I'd say start a branch asap, and I'll join as soon as I understand what is going ok :) 14:48:44 <KUDr> hehe 14:48:47 <Celestar> KUDr: no he meant it's no good to do signalling now and map later, rather the other way round. 14:48:49 <stillunknown> KUDr: you don't even have map API stability yet 14:48:54 <Celestar> Darkvater: peter1138: what's your opinion? 14:49:10 <KUDr> aha 14:49:13 <KUDr> ok then 14:49:25 <Darkvater> so what are we wanting to do now? 14:49:28 <Darkvater> Another map-rewrite? 14:49:29 <KUDr> ask also others 14:49:43 <KUDr> C++ first 14:49:48 <KUDr> then map 14:49:59 <KUDr> and then bridges maybe 14:50:39 <stillunknown> how much performance gain does inlining give approx? 14:50:46 <Celestar> depends, can't tell 14:50:59 <Celestar> Darkvater: we can give it another try, yes :) 14:51:01 <Celestar> Darkvater: or not? 14:51:43 <Celestar> but with custombridgeheads and enhancedtunnels we run in soo many limitations ... it's getting ugly 14:51:53 <Celestar> and then we start hacks and hacks and hacks 14:52:01 <stillunknown> it's already ugly 14:52:02 <Celestar> and it's getting more ugly 14:52:14 <Darkvater> enhancetunnels aren't really my concern, I don't see them as a must-have 14:52:32 <Celestar> but undergroundstations would be cool, no? :> 14:52:36 * Darkvater is just afraid another maprewrite will halt development again 14:53:00 <Darkvater> what I'd love is see newhouses/newindustries in and then start converting 14:54:48 <Celestar> Darkvater: I won't work on newhouses/newindustries anyway cuz I dunno shit about it. the only question is ... go for custombridgeheads (without signals) or halt it till after the maprewrite? 14:54:59 <Celestar> KUDr won't do newgrf stuff either I think. 14:55:10 <Darkvater> what's the cbh status without signals? 14:55:16 <Celestar> Darkvater: working with yapf 14:55:22 <Celestar> mostly working with NTP 14:55:25 <Celestar> not working with NPF 14:55:28 <Darkvater> and NTP/OPF? 14:55:43 <Celestar> OPF doesn'T exist for trains anymore 14:56:14 <Celestar> Darkvater: it needs testing tho 14:56:17 <Darkvater> but for signal propagation 14:56:36 <glx> Celestar: newhouses adds a byte to current map array 14:56:53 <Celestar> signals states are propagated (will test), just signals on bridgeheads can'T really work 14:57:03 <Celestar> glx: yes, but newmap doesn't care a lot about it. 14:57:11 <Darkvater> just disable building those for the time being imho 14:57:15 <Celestar> glx: we'll just bear that in mind 14:57:17 <Celestar> Darkvater: I will 14:57:18 <Darkvater> it's not *that* vital 14:57:41 <Celestar> Darkvater: it's just commenting out a line 14:57:55 * peter1138 is updating sprite limit patch 14:58:06 <peter1138> then i shall deal with newcargos, i think 14:58:10 * Darkvater is cleansing flyspray 14:58:36 <Celestar> Darkvater: will you do a couple of tests with cbh ? 14:58:51 <Darkvater> yeah, will test it this evening :) 14:58:58 <Celestar> ok 14:59:11 <stillunknown> btw, what happened during/after the last map rewrite? 14:59:12 <Darkvater> although... a C++ conversion can be done withouth interfering with the branches too much 14:59:14 <Celestar> Darkvater: I will interdict the construction of signals 14:59:29 <Celestar> Darkvater: I'd say the map stuff would be branch? 14:59:32 <Darkvater> all internal data stays the same, theere'll only be needed some cast-changes 15:01:11 <Darkvater> map should definitely be a branch as it can change a lot 15:01:18 <CIA-1> celestar * r7798 /branches/custombridgeheads/src/rail_cmd.c: [cbh] - Codechange: Disable the construction of signals on bridge heads, because they prove to be ... problematic. Actually this has re-started the discussion of a map rewrite, so stay tuned 15:01:35 <Darkvater> commit message as announcement :O 15:01:43 <Celestar> Darkvater: now cbh is ready for testing (yapf and ntp) 15:01:51 * Celestar waits for Darkvater to slap him 15:01:56 * Darkvater slaps Celestar 15:02:20 <Celestar> thank you 15:02:32 <Brianetta> cbh (: 15:02:35 <Brianetta> newsignals (: 15:02:37 <Celestar> Darkvater: do we want cbh for roads? :) 15:02:54 <Brianetta> funky bridges that can be built over houses and stuff (: 15:02:58 <peter1138> i did it for roads 15:03:04 <peter1138> it's useful 15:03:07 <Maedhros> Celestar: i want it, definitely ;) 15:03:10 <Celestar> peter1138: it's possible, but I'll cost a day or two :P 15:03:12 <Brianetta> for roads (: 15:03:23 <peter1138> bah, it was easier back in the day of real bridges :P 15:03:26 <Brianetta> At least there's no signals 15:03:31 <Celestar> peter1138: I have work :P 15:03:42 <Brianetta> peter1138: What's unreal about these? 15:03:46 <Celestar> peter1138: if I hadn't, it'd be somewhat working tonight 15:04:13 <Darkvater> Celestar: of course we want it for roads 15:04:42 <Celestar> KUDr: ok what about this: 1) we finish cbh (rail + roads, yapf + ntp/opf), 2) we merge this, 3) we start the map rewrite as you suggested. 15:05:02 <Darkvater> KUDr said C++ first :) 15:05:18 <Celestar> er yeah 15:05:22 <Celestar> thats 2.5) 15:05:34 <Celestar> (not to self: always start numbering in increments of 10) 15:06:04 *** Tobin [~Tobin@c58-107-61-130.eburwd7.vic.optusnet.com.au] has quit [Quit: Tobin] 15:06:16 <stillunknown> what exactly needs to be cast (in general) before it will compile as c++? 15:06:21 <peter1138> -rw-r--r-- 1 peter peter 626925 2007-01-03 15:03 sprlimit7.diff 15:06:22 <peter1138> o_O 15:06:26 <Celestar> nice peter1138 :) 15:06:51 <peter1138> Brianetta: bridges weren't portals when i did cbh 15:06:59 <Darkvater> performance impact numbers? ;) 15:07:09 <peter1138> none! 15:07:10 <peter1138> it's all lies! 15:07:54 <Celestar> lol 15:08:00 <pv2b> heh. aircraft behave rather ... strangely... when landing at an airport at an altitude of 550 meters 15:08:04 <pv2b> :-) 15:08:26 <Smoovious> when it comes to NewGRF sets... are there any that anyone would recommend to try out first? (in the MiniIN?) 15:08:43 <peter1138> ukrs :D 15:08:44 <Brianetta> ukrs 15:08:55 <Smoovious> ok... but I'm not in the UK :D 15:08:59 <peter1138> so? 15:09:15 * Smoovious grins. 15:09:29 <Brianetta> Smoovious: ppcis.org/standard 15:09:29 <Smoovious> I take it that would be more complete than others? 15:09:31 <Darkvater> and let's remove NPF, no? 15:09:33 <Brianetta> Just grab that set 15:09:48 <Celestar> Darkvater: don't care 15:09:49 <Brianetta> Does NPF really have no redeeming features? 15:09:50 <Darkvater> it's only use is for ships (where yapf defaults to off) and it is most horrible there 15:09:53 <Celestar> pv2b: yes they do 15:10:42 <Darkvater> Brianetta: it had PBS ;p 15:10:57 <Darkvater> but no it has none. It is in every way inferior to yapf 15:11:01 <Brianetta> Darkvater: Oh, right, well cleary it can stay because of that (: 15:11:02 <peter1138> dbg: [sprite] Increasing sprite cache to 20480 items (245760 bytes) 15:11:03 <Darkvater> blathijs: please correct me if I'm wrong 15:11:03 <peter1138> :D 15:11:09 <Darkvater> :D 15:11:16 <stillunknown> who made the first version of ottd? 15:11:23 <Darkvater> ludde 15:11:53 <Celestar> is there ANY way to not have make spit out whole paths?! 15:11:57 <stillunknown> the name seems vaguely familiar 15:11:57 <Darkvater> look in the about box 15:12:09 <Smoovious> stillunknown... ludde made µTorrent 15:12:11 <peter1138> stillunknown: uTorrent? 15:12:14 <Darkvater> stillunknown: utorrent 15:12:18 <peter1138> lol 15:12:28 <Darkvater> stillunknown: and the lucasarts vm thing 15:12:30 <Brianetta> Never heard of it 15:12:31 <Darkvater> forgot the name :( 15:12:42 <peter1138> scumm? 15:12:49 <Darkvater> Brianetta: OMG. it's the best, fastest, less resource-hungry torrent program ever 15:12:57 <Darkvater> which btw works flawlessly with wine 15:12:58 <Celestar> I *hate* static 15:13:00 <Darkvater> peter1138: yeah scum 15:13:03 <Darkvater> +m 15:13:11 <peter1138> heh 15:13:14 <Smoovious> and, it has Tetris! 15:13:17 <peter1138> i don't use torrent 15:13:18 <Brianetta> Darkvater: I fire up my official Linux bittorrent client about once a year to download a new ISO. 15:13:24 <peter1138> i only know of utorrent from here ;p 15:13:36 <Darkvater> Brianetta: utorrent is better 15:13:49 <peter1138> besides, isn't utorrent official now? 15:13:54 <Darkvater> in fact I've read the the original author of bittorrent contacted utorrent to work together 15:13:57 <peter1138> it's still windows only, heh 15:14:08 <Celestar> Rubidium: ping 15:14:28 <Rubidium> Celestar: pong 15:14:31 <Smoovious> yeah, Bram Cohen and BitTorrent, Inc bought µTorrent several weeks ago... something most of the rest of us on the support team aren't happy about 15:14:42 <blathijs> Darkvater: NPF has more elegant code :-) 15:14:50 <Darkvater> Smoovious: support-team of what? 15:14:54 <Celestar> Rubidium: when I get an error, make spits out full filenames, is there any way to have it spit out relative file names? 15:14:54 <Darkvater> blathijs: it leaks! 15:14:56 <Smoovious> µTorrent 15:14:57 <blathijs> Darkvater: At according to KUDr, it has a few details extra over YAPF I think 15:15:17 <Rubidium> Celestar: compile time or run time? 15:15:27 <Darkvater> Smoovious: ah, I see; cohen pays badly? 15:16:07 <Celestar> Rubidium: when compiling 15:16:22 * peter1138 wonders how many sprites he can get loaded.. 15:16:23 <Smoovious> dunno what ludde and DirectriX got paid... non-disclosure... the rest of us aren't included... our beef with Cohen tho, is we don't trust him 15:16:24 <Darkvater> I don't get path-information 15:16:44 <Celestar> /nfs/home/fischer/openttd/branches/custombridgeheads/src/road_cmd.c:273: error: <= this is too long 15:16:54 <Smoovious> and I mean a very active distrust... not just some 'we don't know him so we don't trust him' kind of thing 15:16:56 <peter1138> hmm, 19907 sprites, with 5 grfs 15:17:00 <Darkvater> Smoovious: ;o gimme the dirty stuff! 15:17:04 <Smoovious> so, we'll see what he does with it 15:17:30 <Brianetta> OpenTTD needs animated points (: 15:17:36 <Smoovious> well, basically, Bram has been among the loudest detractors against the advancements µT and Az were making together 15:17:52 <Darkvater> detractors? 15:18:10 * Darkvater looks up word 15:18:10 <stillunknown> utorrent is supposedly decent/good, but azureus is a joke 15:18:14 <Smoovious> yeah... like protocol encruption for one 15:18:48 <Darkvater> azureus is so much crap. I can't even run it normally on my pc. It's java suckyness brings my whole pc to a crawl 15:18:54 <Smoovious> Azureus is ok... it is just aimed at a different niche... it plays well with others and the trackers, so we consider it a good client... if you have the resources to run it 15:19:15 <Darkvater> ah critict 15:19:16 <Darkvater> -t 15:19:23 <Sacro> Smoovious: how do i stop utorrent from complaining about nvappfilter.dll 15:19:46 <Smoovious> why would it complain about it to begin with? 15:19:50 <peter1138> dbg: [sprite] Currently 22144 sprites are loaded 15:19:53 <peter1138> hmmz 15:20:00 <Celestar> peter1138: ? 15:20:00 <Sacro> Smoovious: it doesnt like my onboard lan ports 15:20:18 <peter1138> Celestar: > 16384 :D 15:20:24 <Darkvater> hehe 15:20:25 <Celestar> peter1138: oh . right . 15:20:25 <Smoovious> ahh... well, then I guess I'd just have to say... fix nvappfilter.dll 15:20:27 <peter1138> Darkvater: hee, i have 19000 sprite groups... 15:20:32 <Celestar> peter1138: ? 15:20:42 <peter1138> hmm? 15:20:43 <Darkvater> good thing you increase the group-size 15:20:45 <peter1138> yeah 15:20:47 <Darkvater> eh block-size 15:20:53 * Maedhros plays with diagonal crossings... http://dev.gentoo.org/~maedhros/openttd/diagonal_crossings-r7795.diff 15:20:57 <Smoovious> seriously tho, that's the first time anyone has even mentioned that dll 15:21:07 <Celestar> Error: Tried to load non-existing sprite #16383. 15:21:09 <Darkvater> did you try usset yet? I think that's pretty bug 15:21:12 <Celestar> I think I made something wrong :P 15:21:15 <Maedhros> now i just have to get activating both halves at the same time working :-/ 15:21:23 <Sacro> Smoovious: hmm, its an Asus M2N-SLi board 15:21:25 <Darkvater> good luck 15:21:51 <Darkvater> hmm 15:22:17 <Rubidium> Celestar: hmm, removing the absolute paths is not going to work; then you'll get ../../src/... or ../../../src/... (last for OSX universal binaries) 15:22:23 <Darkvater> peter1138: about the tunnel-signal-bug that KUDr fixed for branches/bridge then I backported to 0.5 then you reverted; has that been fixed? 15:22:26 <Smoovious> Sacro... well, if µT is complaining about it, then there is something wrong with it... if it was communicating in a standard way like everything else, there wouldn't be a problem... µT doesn't care about specific hardware 15:22:40 <Celestar> Darkvater: I think it was fixed in cbh, wasn't it? 15:22:44 <peter1138> Darkvater: it's fixed in the next couple of commits 15:22:51 <Sacro> Smoovious: its strange, cos i dont even use LAN, or have it enabled in windows... i use wifi 15:22:52 <Darkvater> ok 15:22:54 <peter1138> Darkvater: although the incompatible railtype stuff isn't in yet 15:22:55 <Biff> Maedhros: only that patch? 15:22:58 <Biff> Maedhros: no grf? 15:23:05 <Smoovious> wifi is still considered LAN 15:23:05 <peter1138> because to do that requires updating signals when converting 15:23:26 <Darkvater> Celestar: that doesn't help with 0.5 :) 15:23:26 <Maedhros> Biff: http://dev.gentoo.org/~maedhros/openttd/dcrossingsw.grf :) 15:23:34 <Biff> okey 15:23:38 <Biff> is that oldgrf? 15:23:39 <Biff> :P 15:23:44 <Smoovious> Sacro... what is the specific error message you get? 15:23:45 <Rubidium> Celestar: the 'main' problem is that I don't want to break the error stream; all stderr from gcc should go to stderr, not to stdout 15:23:46 <Darkvater> but I wasn't sure anymore cause there was a shitload of commits around there and I wasn't around 15:23:55 <Celestar> Rubidium: true 15:24:51 <Celestar> ok Darkvater customroadbridgeheads tomorrow 15:25:02 <Celestar> Darkvater: please test customraildbridgeheads today thne :) 15:25:05 * Osai may we have shift + enter for teamchat? 15:25:16 <Rubidium> maybe we could make it 'make SHOW_REL_PATHS:=1' which merges stderr to stdout and then throws it through sed 15:25:16 <Darkvater> Osai: it's already is 15:25:35 <Darkvater> or is it ctrl+enter, can't remember 15:25:42 <Osai> its ctrl + enter 15:25:51 <Sacro> Smoovious: "µTorrent is not compatible with 'NVIDIA Firewall' (nvappfilter.dll) that appears to be installed on your computer. That program contains severe bigs, and might case µTorrent to crash or behave strangely, including but not limited to using up all your RAM and freezing. Please uninstall that program if you experience any problems" 15:25:51 <Darkvater> then it stays ctrl+enter 15:26:07 <Osai> ctrl + enter toggles the fullscreenmode on mac os x :/ 15:26:14 <Osai> so you can't use it 15:26:35 <Darkvater> why did bjarni use a differnet shortcut there? 15:26:37 <Smoovious> ahh, ok... don't use NVIDIA Firewall then... it isn't a µT issue... 15:27:02 <Sacro> Smoovious: its part of my motherboard drivers afaik 15:27:04 <Smoovious> it should be on the incompatable software list 15:27:05 <Darkvater> Osai: you can change a patch setting to prefer-team chat. Then enter will be team if you have team mates and shift+enter all (as it was) 15:27:49 <Celestar> Osai: and poke bjarni to get it fixed :) 15:27:58 <Osai> works 15:28:11 <Osai> I'll poke him ;) 15:28:18 <Darkvater> Osai: does alt+enter interfere with anything in OSX causing it to be not used? 15:28:41 <Smoovious> Sacro... are you actually experiencing any problems with it, not counting the warning message? 15:29:05 <Sacro> Smoovious: no issues as yet, but then im using a netgear ma101 to connect via wireless 15:29:24 <Osai> alt + enter should work too 15:29:29 <Smoovious> that doesn't matter... the issue is the NVIDIA Firewall it found... nothing else 15:30:06 <Smoovious> so if you aren't having any problems, then ignore the warning message... you'll continue to get it as long as µT detects that firewall on your computer 15:30:07 <Darkvater> Osai: good, then I'll change the code at home 15:30:11 <Darkvater> and hope it compiels ;p 15:30:14 <Celestar> :P 15:30:19 <Celestar> ok guys I'm off 15:30:25 <Osai> but shift+enter has the best usability as you have shift right under enter 15:30:35 <Celestar> KUDr: I hope you're content with the workflow above? 15:30:48 <Smoovious> (yeah, but the Alt/Ctrl keys are on the edge without other keys in the way :D ) 15:31:07 <Darkvater> Osai: it was modelled on different games mainly wc3 and ut ( I think) and ctrl+enter was team there 15:31:15 <Celestar> Darkvater: let me know any problem you find with cbh on rails (and KUDr as well if it is pathfinding related) 15:31:31 <Darkvater> kk, will do :) 15:31:33 <Osai> I always thought wc3 uses shift+enter ^^ 15:31:46 <KUDr> Darkvater: you want to merge it? 15:31:58 <Darkvater> Osai: nop :) 15:31:58 <Celestar> KUDr: nah he wants to test it :) 15:32:06 <Darkvater> no, test it first 15:32:06 <KUDr> ahh 15:32:19 <KUDr> its not complete i think 15:32:21 <Sacro> mergy mergy! 15:32:29 <Celestar> neither do I 15:32:38 <Celestar> roads are missing and NTP has some lost trains. 15:32:40 <Celestar> ah 15:33:08 <Osai> okay, thx. maybe ctrl + enter will work with mac os x too, if Bjarni can fix it 15:33:38 <Darkvater> shit, I missed my bus 15:34:01 *** MUcht [~Mucht@p57A0ED1F.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 15:34:02 <Celestar> BAH 15:34:04 <Celestar> BUG 15:34:18 <Celestar> running bin/openttd sets the working directiory to bin/. not . 15:34:28 <Darkvater> that's good 15:34:31 <Celestar> nope 15:34:32 <Darkvater> all your data is in bin/ 15:34:42 <Celestar> http://www.fvfischer.de/ottd/test.sav <= KUDr please test with NTP 15:34:50 <KUDr> ok 15:35:04 <blathijs> Celestar: Why does it change your working dir? Does openttd do that? 15:35:21 <Celestar> well, not the shell's but ottd's 15:35:26 *** Hadez [~chatzilla@151.244.broadband7.iol.cz] has quit [Quit: Chatzilla 0.9.77 [Firefox 2.0/0000000000]] 15:35:28 <blathijs> AFAICS that shouldn't happen 15:35:45 <Smoovious> Brianett... all 15 of those NewGRF's work well together? 15:36:15 *** GoneWack1 [~gonewacko@c18041.upc-c.chello.nl] has joined #openttd 15:37:07 <Belugas> map rewrite... looks quite interesting. 15:37:32 <peter1138> quick, merge newhouses! 15:37:56 <Rubidium> Belugas: newindustries must be finished before the maprewrite (Darkvater's orders :)) 15:38:01 <Celestar> peter1138: ? 15:38:07 <Rubidium> or maybe 'wishes' 15:38:08 <Celestar> ok guys cu 15:38:19 <peter1138> bye 15:38:33 <Darkvater> KUDr: yapf doesn't do any checks for a path that would make a train cross itself, does it? 15:39:02 <peter1138> damn 15:39:11 <peter1138> i forget to investigate that yapf problem 15:39:40 *** Mucht_ [~Mucht@p57A0FB41.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 15:39:55 <Belugas> newindustries... 15:39:58 <KUDr> Darkvater: doesn't 15:39:59 <Belugas> pffff... 15:40:14 <Darkvater> chop, chop, hop to it! 15:40:18 <Belugas> yeah, i might getback on track, i guess! 15:40:33 <Belugas> i think i'v been a bit lazy lately :D 15:40:50 * peter1138 ponders accidentally commiting this "small" patch 15:40:57 <Belugas> as for newhouses... i don't think it is ready yet 15:40:58 <Darkvater> you better get working Belugas or I might 'accidentally' remove you from my friends list 15:41:07 <Belugas> :P 15:41:17 <Belugas> i tough i was already out of it! 15:41:18 *** GoneWacko [~gonewacko@c18041.upc-c.chello.nl] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 15:41:19 *** GoneWack1 is now known as GoneWacko 15:41:24 <GoneWacko> But then you wouldn't have any friends left Darkvater 15:41:30 <Darkvater> peter1138: which yapf problem? 'small' hehe 15:41:33 <Darkvater> Belugas: desync! 15:41:35 <Belugas> Darkvater: You did not wished me happy new year! 15:41:50 <Darkvater> has canada passed over already? 15:41:52 <Darkvater> sweet 15:41:52 <peter1138> Darkvater: sometimes it picks the wrong path 15:42:00 <Darkvater> Happy New Year Belugas \o/ 15:42:02 <peter1138> only noticed it after bridge merge, however 15:42:10 <KUDr> peter1138: need case 15:42:14 <peter1138> i know 15:42:27 <peter1138> i damned 5 minutes ago ;) 15:43:08 * peter1138 ponders keeping statistics about grfs 15:43:20 <peter1138> pointless though 15:43:30 <peter1138> especially as there's no limits 15:43:43 * Belugas wonders if peter1138 was talking about the newcargo "small" patch! 15:43:48 <peter1138> no 15:43:51 <peter1138> much smaller than that 15:43:51 <Belugas> :( 15:43:53 <Darkvater> Belugas: even smaller 15:43:54 <Darkvater> hehe 15:44:26 <peter1138> Darkvater: with all those grfs loaded, ottd is still under 10MB 15:44:46 <Darkvater> sure beats my reading in of MS Mincho font :) 15:44:55 <peter1138> hehe 15:45:01 <peter1138> Belugas: this one is only 600+KB 15:45:05 <Darkvater> 35MB per font-face 15:45:19 <peter1138> it's way smaller than rubidium's merge... 15:45:34 <Belugas> well... accidently wold not apply to such a "small" patche then.. 15:46:01 <Belugas> Happy new Year to you too, Darkvater 15:46:16 <Darkvater> I see canada is far away; what a lag :+ 15:46:42 <Darkvater> but, I'm off for home 15:46:45 <Darkvater> :) 15:47:13 <qball> :D 15:47:49 <peter1138> ah, he's gone 15:47:55 <peter1138> let's do this commit ;) 15:48:01 <Rubidium> peter1138: my merge wasn't that large :) 15:48:29 <peter1138> uh huh 15:48:37 <peter1138> 14 MB or so? 15:48:53 <Rubidium> that was the diff, because diff doesn't understand files moving 15:49:58 *** Naksu [naksu@anime.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 15:54:11 <Brianetta> Smoovious: All 15 work well together, yes. 15:54:36 <Brianetta> Two train sets, one designed as an add-on to the other. One road vehivle set, one ship set, one plane set and a load of stations. 15:54:49 <Brianetta> Oh, and a bridge. 15:55:31 <Smoovious> ok cool... good set to start with then, thanky, helps a lot 15:56:07 *** Naksu [naksu@anime.fi] has joined #openttd 15:57:25 <Smoovious> um... are there limitations to which climate they're usable in? (not counting toyland) 16:00:35 <peter1138> temperate and arctic i think 16:03:33 *** Zavior [~Zavior@d195-237-7-207.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has quit [Quit: ( www.nnscript.de :: NoNameScript 4.02 :: www.XLhost.de )] 16:06:53 <Maedhros> peter1138: do you still have that varaction 2 procedure patch you were working on anywhere? 16:07:46 * caladan back :D 16:09:20 *** Digitalfox [~chatzilla@bl7-176-135.dsl.telepac.pt] has joined #openttd 16:09:49 *** Zaviori [~Zavior@d195-237-7-207.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has joined #openttd 16:12:05 *** PandaMojo [~panda@c-67-183-223-161.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: PandaMojo] 16:13:47 <peter1138> yes 16:14:47 *** Vikthor [~Vikthor@snat2.arachne.cz] has joined #openttd 16:20:10 <Digitalfox> So how's the debate about the map rewrite? 16:23:48 <peter1138> we got bored and did something else 16:25:47 *** Born_Acorn [~bornacorn@zernebok.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:30:06 *** Born_Acorn [~bornacorn@zernebok.com] has joined #openttd 16:32:37 <Smoovious> hmm... #comments look like they're being stripped out of openttd.cfg ... 16:33:55 <hylje> obviously 16:34:16 <Smoovious> they shouldn't be... according to the wiki... 16:36:38 <CIA-1> rubidium * r7799 /trunk/config.lib: -Fix (r7759): gracefully handle cases where the directory libz.a is in is given via --with-libz. 16:49:15 <peter1138> hmm 16:49:17 <peter1138> quiet :P 16:51:00 <Digitalfox> peter-> "We got bored and did something else" so it stays has it was..?? 16:51:25 *** helb [~helb@84.244.90.159] has joined #openttd 16:52:11 <Digitalfox> Or just gave up on signals on bridges.. 16:53:10 <peter1138> no, just a throwaway remark because no-one said anything 16:54:26 *** Digitalfox [~chatzilla@bl7-176-135.dsl.telepac.pt] has quit [Quit: Bye Bye...] 16:55:57 <Athorium> hey, is possible to remove the fucking bribe failure? 16:56:01 <peter1138> no 16:56:06 <Athorium> no? 16:56:27 <Smoovious> no 16:56:33 <peter1138> that was a yes/no question, the answer is no 16:56:39 <Athorium> sure?? :( 16:56:51 <Smoovious> boolean's don't leave a lot of wiggle room in answers 16:57:07 <qball> :D 16:57:20 <peter1138> yes, no, file not found 16:57:28 <Athorium> -_- 16:57:37 <qball> yes, no, maybe 16:57:51 <Athorium> fucking regional investigator... I can't send a assasin and kill them? :D 16:57:52 <Smoovious> that wouldn't be a boolean then 16:58:01 <SpComb> sure is 16:58:05 <qball> Smoovious: depends, tri state logic 16:58:09 <SpComb> file not found is very important 16:58:13 <SpComb> you can't just disregard it 16:58:23 <Smoovious> that'd be a troolean then 16:58:28 <qball> owh soryr 16:58:42 <qball> and with tristate its more like: yes, no, what my neighbour sais 16:58:51 <peter1138> troolean, heh 16:59:12 <Smoovious> or "yes, no, I don't give a f*ck" 16:59:43 <Smoovious> or maybe "yes, no, google is your friend" 16:59:48 <Smoovious> same diff tho 17:01:26 *** Rens2Sea [~Rens2Sea@213.211.185.168] has joined #openttd 17:05:20 *** Sacro [~Ben@adsl-213-249-186-101.karoo.KCOM.COM] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 17:14:32 *** Rens2Sea [~Rens2Sea@213.211.185.168] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 17:16:44 *** Rens2Sea [~Rens2Sea@213.211.185.168] has joined #openttd 17:19:28 *** |Jeroen| [~jeroen@dD5772982.access.telenet.be] has joined #openttd 17:20:30 *** Digitalfox [~chatzilla@bl7-176-135.dsl.telepac.pt] has joined #openttd 17:20:37 <SpComb> Logs: http://zapotek.paivola.fi/~terom/logs/openttd 17:20:37 <Digitalfox> !logs 17:27:06 <ArmEagle> tis there any way to see whether a vertain placement of your station will be able to 'catch' resources from a certain industry? 17:27:13 <ArmEagle> *-t 17:27:38 *** Sacro [~Ben@adsl-213-249-186-101.karoo.KCOM.COM] has joined #openttd 17:27:52 <ArmEagle> ..since it often isn't clear what the base tile is. 17:30:57 <ArmEagle> (hmm k, factories seem to accept on all, but refineries and sawmills only accept on specific tiles. So how would one even know about producing-only industries.. 17:30:59 *** Digitalfox [~chatzilla@bl7-176-135.dsl.telepac.pt] has quit [Quit: Bye Bye...] 17:31:11 <Biff> ArmEagle: fixed some more 17:31:17 <ArmEagle> ah 17:31:18 <Biff> dirty hack actually :p 17:32:06 <Biff> ArmEagle: http://discrete.eimot.no/~magne/openttd/fast_forward_fix3.diff 17:32:11 <Eddi|zuHause2> ArmEagle: production is always on all tiles, accepting is not on all, but is shown when you place the station/in the station window 17:32:26 <ArmEagle> Eddi|zuHause2 ok thanks 17:32:37 <Biff> now fast forward never happens here when alt-tabbing 17:33:11 <Rubidium> + * (still can go into fast-forward for 1/10 second) 17:33:20 <Rubidium> :) 17:33:21 <Biff> yes, i didnt update the comment 17:33:22 <ArmEagle> Biff yeah i had something like that in mind too. But didn't realyl find it neat enough :) 17:34:33 <Biff> think its the only way 17:34:47 <ArmEagle> and what about the very unusual moment that you keep the button pressed for a couple of years (ie counter overflow :) 17:35:00 <Biff> how will it be a counter overflow? 17:35:10 <ArmEagle> oh wait 17:35:14 <Biff> it just makes a copy of ticks 17:35:29 <ArmEagle> is that 'ticks' seconds since 1970-ish? 17:35:37 <Rubidium> after 2^32*30 milliseconds it'll overflow 17:35:38 <ArmEagle> or time of buttonpress? 17:35:57 <Biff> game ticks 17:35:59 <Biff> Rubidium: how? 17:36:00 <ArmEagle> Rubidium yeah i know.. very completely unlikely :) 17:36:12 <Biff> oh yes 17:36:32 <Biff> + 1000 17:36:35 <Rubidium> last_active_tick > 2^32 - 1000 17:37:16 *** pecisk [~pecisk@62.85.44.54] has joined #openttd 17:37:30 <ArmEagle> hmm doc says that the value wraps if the program runs for more than ~49 days 17:37:36 <ArmEagle> (value returned by function) 17:37:37 <Rubidium> a well, that will happen after about 100 years in non-fastforward mode :) 17:37:55 <ArmEagle> apparently not returning a uint32 17:38:00 <Rubidium> ArmEagle: what doc, where? 17:38:08 <ArmEagle> http://docs.mandragor.org/files/Common_libs_documentation/SDL/SDL_Documentation_project_en/sdlgetticks.html 17:38:13 <ArmEagle> hmm does return uint32.. 17:38:25 *** Sacro [~Ben@adsl-213-249-186-101.karoo.KCOM.COM] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:38:38 <Biff> Rubidium: but it will overflow anyways? 17:38:45 <Biff> atleast the tick counter 17:38:46 *** Hadez [~chatzilla@151.244.broadband7.iol.cz] has joined #openttd 17:38:50 <Biff> only 1000 ticks later 17:39:16 <Rubidium> hmm, I was mistaking it for another tick counter :) 17:39:28 <Rubidium> that makes 1000 ticks much more sensible :) 17:39:42 <ArmEagle> according to that page the tick counter will overflow when you run the game for ~49days. So IF you run a game that long AND you happen to alt-tab at that exact moment.. 17:40:06 <Hadez> MiHaMiX: Is there any way of removing dead cases in WT2? I added them in Manage page in order to show them in Edit page, but they didn't show up :-( 17:40:52 <Hadez> I wanted to delete the old stupid .news and .subs strings... 17:41:07 <peter1138> ah ha 17:41:09 <peter1138> it's your fault! 17:41:14 <peter1138> :D 17:41:34 <peter1138> if they're supposed to go, i can delete them 17:41:55 <Hadez> But will they get deleted also in WT2's DB? ;-) 17:42:01 <peter1138> should do 17:42:12 *** Sacro [~Ben@adsl-213-249-186-101.karoo.KCOM.COM] has joined #openttd 17:42:16 <Hadez> Alright, you can try. 17:42:21 <peter1138> if not then it's a WT2 bug 17:42:39 <Hadez> It seems that there are more bugs. 17:42:51 <stillunknown> WT2? 17:43:00 <Hadez> Translator system. 17:43:06 <Biff> ArmEagle: true 17:43:30 *** scia [~scia@AveloN.xs4all.nl] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 17:43:36 <Rubidium> hmm, I'm not really happy with the diff 17:43:50 <Biff> i'm trying to fix some more 17:43:52 <Rubidium> tab now doesn't work the first second after reacquiring the focus 17:44:06 <Biff> yes, it needs a lower value 17:44:07 <Rubidium> and last_active_tick is really last_inactive_tick or so 17:44:10 <Hadez> peter1138: And thanks for fixing using of Unifont :-) 17:44:10 <Biff> yes 17:44:11 <Biff> true 17:44:21 <Rubidium> and sdl_v.c:426: warning: 'cur_ticks' may be used uninitialized in this function 17:44:31 <Biff> yep, i fixed that 17:44:33 <ArmEagle> yeah could make it shorter than a sec though 17:45:44 <Biff> http://discrete.eimot.no/~magne/openttd/fast_forward_fix3.diff updated 17:46:12 <Biff> 250 seems to work well 17:46:57 <Biff> trying some different values 17:47:41 <CIA-1> peter1138 * r7800 /trunk/src/lang/czech.txt: -Fix (r7787): Remove Czech strings with .news or .subs case. 17:48:31 <Biff> 150 seems ok, 100 then it sometimes goes into fast_forward 17:49:52 *** Sacro [~Ben@adsl-213-249-186-101.karoo.KCOM.COM] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:50:16 <Biff> better now? 17:51:30 <Biff> so, if its 150, that means there are a time slot of 150ms where it can overflow right? 17:51:49 <Rubidium> yeah, but don't worry about that :) 17:52:52 <Hadez> One thing to Makefile and stuff: I wonder why strgen isn't placed to bin/? 17:53:06 *** helb [~helb@84.244.90.159] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:53:11 <ArmEagle> well might want to make it 200 then. that's still quite short and a bit more on the safe side 17:53:24 *** Bjarni [~Bjarni@0x50a46ac4.virnxx14.adsl-dhcp.tele.dk] has joined #openttd 17:53:27 *** mode/#openttd [+o Bjarni] by ChanServ 17:53:27 *** helb [~helb@84.244.90.159] has joined #openttd 17:53:28 <Biff> yes, sounds reasonable 17:53:43 <SpComb> Logs: http://zapotek.paivola.fi/~terom/logs/openttd 17:53:43 <Bjarni> !logs 17:53:46 <Biff> in 0.2s you wont be able to fast_forward 17:54:01 <Naksu> Smoovious: did you say you were on utorrent support team? 17:54:20 *** helb [~helb@84.244.90.159] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:54:40 *** helb [~helb@84.244.90.159] has joined #openttd 17:54:45 <Bjarni> people are so odd 17:54:47 <Biff> doesnt next_tick also overflow? 17:54:50 <Darkvater> Bjarni: ! 17:54:55 <Eddi|zuHause2> <Hadez> One thing to Makefile and stuff: I wonder why strgen isn't placed to bin/? <- because strgen is not needed to run the game, it is just some intermediate program 17:54:58 <Bjarni> people started talking in a 2 year old thread o_O 17:55:11 <peter1138> and you continued! 17:55:28 <Hadez> It is usable for translators even after compiling. 17:55:36 <Darkvater> Bjarni: can you help truelight out with making the nightly compile farm compatible for 10.3? Cause right now it doesn't work 17:55:58 <Bjarni> <peter1138> and you continued! <-- I supported DV, so we show a clear unified policy ;) 17:56:08 <Darkvater> I closede the thread 17:56:10 <glx> Hadez: not true for nightlies from compile farm 17:56:32 <Bjarni> Darkvater: I asked him to fix that for months and told him what to do... for some reason it have yet to be done :s 17:56:35 <Bjarni> I will try again 17:56:52 <peter1138> has 17:57:07 <Darkvater> Bjarni: yes, but do stay around this time :). It's hard to fix it if you can't test it 17:57:11 <Hadez> I thought there was strgen packaged with NB before...? 17:57:32 <Smoovious> Naksu... yes, I did... tho I think I said µTorrent... not utorrent... :P 17:58:24 <Bjarni> Darkvater: I don't have 10.3 installed anywhere anymore :s 17:58:41 <Hadez> Nah, I will look for some path setting. Just about the fact that strgen is a binary, not needed only for compiling... 17:58:52 <Darkvater> hmm, can't you install it or something in an osx vmware thingie? 17:59:29 *** Wolf01 [~wolf01@host234-194-dynamic.58-82-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #openttd 17:59:46 <Wolf01> ello 18:00:10 <Eddi|zuHause2> Hadez: it should be in objs/lang 18:00:11 <glx> Hadez: compile farm only compiles strgen for linux (as it only needs this one) 18:00:44 <Hadez> Alright. 18:00:57 <Naksu> Smoovious: i'm too lazy to find µ on the charmap 18:01:00 * Hadez will look for that path and won't bother about this anymore. 18:01:00 <Naksu> anyways 18:01:13 <Naksu> do you know if utorrent development will stall because of this? 18:01:14 *** Sacro [Ben@adsl-213-249-186-101.karoo.KCOM.COM] has joined #openttd 18:01:36 <Naksu> i understand bram cohen isn't too keen on people modifying His Divine Protocol 18:02:29 *** Hadez [~chatzilla@151.244.broadband7.iol.cz] has quit [Quit: Chatzilla 0.9.77 [Firefox 2.0/0000000000]] 18:06:48 <Smoovious> well... he's been pretty... evasive... on what will happen from this point on... we speculate he wanted µT because it was still closed source, as his own client is open source (and pretty crappy too) 18:06:52 <CIA-1> rubidium * r7801 /trunk/src/ (console_cmds.c openttd.c): -Feature: add command line option to prevent saving of highscore and configuration on exit and a console command to manually initiate a configuration save (Aloysha). 18:07:10 <Wolf01> http://hackedgadgets.com/wp-content/verizoncheck-mum-the-weiser.jpg OMG LOOOL 18:07:12 <Smoovious> if there are going to be any more releases of it, and for the short-term, we expect there will, we just don't know what direction they're going to go... 18:07:43 <Smoovious> I've been telling people that build 483 is the last of the ludde builds, and they should just stick with that, as we have no idea what direction Bram is going to go in 18:08:50 <Smoovious> we're pretty unhappy about the whole situation... when the rest of us joined in to help with the project, we were told that when ludde got tired of programming it, he would open-source it... well, he got tired of it... and sold it instead... 18:09:11 <Smoovious> its not that we don't want him to make a buck with it... we're more upset over who he sold it to 18:09:12 <peter1138> well 18:09:19 <peter1138> no need to complain here in a channel not about it 18:09:31 * Smoovious shrugs. 18:09:53 <Smoovious> he did ask tho... but yeah... wanna know anymore, go to the official channel on p2p-net... 18:09:59 <Biff> yawn 18:10:07 <Biff> just use bittornado 18:10:13 <Biff> problem solved 18:10:28 <Smoovious> bittornado has its limitations... tho it is good in its own right 18:10:38 <Biff> pfft 18:10:49 <Biff> it has newer failed me 18:10:52 <Biff> never* 18:11:08 <Smoovious> not a question of failing you... I just don't want 400 bittornado instances running 18:11:10 <Darkvater> http://tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?t=29410&start=0&postdays=0&postorder=asc&highlight= 18:11:13 <Darkvater> hehe 18:11:15 <Biff> you dont need it 18:11:24 <Biff> btlaunchmany.bittornado 18:11:30 <Biff> monitors a folder 18:11:42 <Wolf01> Rubidium, many thanks for the cygwin fix 18:11:50 <Biff> then use my excellent python program to put files into that folder (over tcp/ip) 18:11:52 <Smoovious> wouldn't be practical 18:12:04 <Biff> so you just click the links in the browser 18:12:14 <Biff> and they download without bothering you 18:12:20 <Rubidium> Wolf01: most of it is 'workarounds' :( 18:12:57 <Wolf01> but i can't understand it well, i should install cygwin with dos style line endings or with linux line endings? i always installed it with the linux option as it is default 18:13:17 <Biff> linux sounds like the smartest option 18:13:38 <Biff> you cant assume all *nix programs understand crlf 18:14:03 <Rubidium> Biff: bash ported to cygwin should understand crlf 18:14:10 <Biff> yes 18:14:24 <Rubidium> even worse, configure itself does work, it only fails when including other files 18:14:33 <Rubidium> so it works partially 18:14:36 <Biff> ok 18:14:46 <Biff> why do people use cygwin btw? 18:14:57 <Biff> for compiling openttd 18:15:03 <Rubidium> that is why configure with crlf and config.lib with only lf does work 18:16:18 <Rubidium> because it is easier to set up than MinGW + MSys (my experience) and harder to install than MSVC (and it has some nice 'issues' to complain about) 18:16:34 <Biff> ah 18:16:39 <stillunknown> Smoovious: rtorrent :-) 18:16:41 <Biff> ok 18:16:51 <stillunknown> oh, forgot you wanted a windows app 18:16:59 <Darkvater> I really hate cygwin 18:17:10 <Darkvater> then I'd rather run a linux OS in vmware player 18:17:39 <Biff> or just have an os that doesnt give you so many headaches :P 18:18:00 *** nix0r [elita@wlan-ppp-16.axpan.net] has joined #openttd 18:18:09 <Rubidium> and ofcourse cygwin's makedepend doesn't work :( 18:18:52 *** nix0r [elita@wlan-ppp-16.axpan.net] has quit [] 18:20:12 <Biff> finally some snow 18:21:21 <stillunknown> who did those new makefiles? 18:21:26 *** NeXuS [~pwn@dyn-83-156-158-100.ppp.tiscali.fr] has joined #openttd 18:21:31 *** NeXuS is now known as NeXuS` 18:22:09 *** scia [~scia@AveloN.xs4all.nl] has joined #openttd 18:22:36 <Rubidium> stillunknown: initially TrueLight (now TrueBrain) and I finished & merged it 18:23:13 <stillunknown> please make --prefix an acceptable option as well 18:23:32 <stillunknown> and consider turning on ignore unknown options by default 18:23:36 <Biff> doesnt --prefix work? 18:23:46 <stillunknown> Wolf01: good one 18:23:47 <stillunknown> no 18:24:03 <stillunknown> i had to do a little sed'ing to get it to work 18:24:20 <Biff> oh 18:24:42 <stillunknown> and there are other problems 18:25:01 <Rubidium> ignoring unknown options by default is bad, it will just continue and people are going to complain about '--prefix' did not work, whern there isn't a --prefix 18:25:19 <Rubidium> now it will immediatelly tell them that 18:26:11 <stillunknown> everything seems to be non-standard 18:26:36 <stillunknown> --data-dir instead of --datadir 18:26:42 <stillunknown> and many more 18:27:16 *** FlashFF [~flashff@80-193-4-162.cable.ubr05.gill.blueyonder.co.uk] has joined #openttd 18:27:20 <Rubidium> stillunknown: where can I find that standard? 18:27:28 <FlashFF> zomg i was teh diskernected! 18:27:44 <stillunknown> i don't know, i just know that the gentoo defaults work out in 98% of the time 18:27:58 <stillunknown> so they be documented somewhere 18:28:05 <FlashFF> ewww gentoo 18:28:06 <stillunknown> i'll ask someplace and see if they know 18:28:34 <Rubidium> I just based the names on the names in the old makefile 18:28:59 <Rubidium> but if there really is a standard, I would like to comply to that as good as possible 18:29:13 <Eddi|zuHause2> i have a suggestion: place a dummy makefile in src that calls make in .. 18:29:18 <CIA-1> rubidium * r7802 /trunk/src/openttd.c: -Feature: make it possible to override the bind address and port of a dedicated server from the command line. 18:29:26 <FlashFF> quick Q: in a game, i just did an advertising campaign to beat a competitor, and it actually reduced the amount i was getting from the coal mine wtf is with that 18:29:47 <Maedhros> Rubidium: the "standard" is probably whatever autoconf creates 18:30:26 <Darkvater> FlashFF: luck 18:30:40 <Biff> FlashFF: the amount it produced went down? 18:30:43 <Biff> or you got less? 18:31:11 <FlashFF> i got less 18:31:16 <FlashFF> and my competitor got more 18:31:37 <FlashFF> and he didnt get advertising or do anything particularly meaningful 18:31:49 *** NeXuS` [~pwn@dyn-83-156-158-100.ppp.tiscali.fr] has quit [] 18:35:45 <FlashFF> sick 18:35:50 <FlashFF> now he gets nearly all of it lol 18:35:58 <qball> maybe he is preforming better? 18:36:15 <Eddi|zuHause2> usually, the person with higher rating should get more 18:36:38 <FlashFF> rating as in town rating or rating as in league table? 18:36:40 <Eddi|zuHause2> but i did not play with competition since TTO 18:36:41 <glx> except if someone bought exclusive rights 18:36:46 <FlashFF> and which town lol 18:36:49 <Eddi|zuHause2> rating as in station rating 18:37:05 <FlashFF> cos i have my station in the same town as the mine his is in a diff town based on its name 18:37:58 <Eddi|zuHause2> click on the station, then on rating, and it should say something like: 'coal: 76% (good)' [names may differ] 18:38:33 <Wolf01> mmmm now cygwin works 18:38:41 <FlashFF> yeah his is higher 18:38:43 <Wolf01> without changes 18:38:48 <FlashFF> and what is supposed to affect that? 18:38:55 <Wolf01> i only downloaded the missing libs 18:38:59 <stillunknown> Ribidium: can't find any docs so far, but as a start i would rename --prefix-dir to --prefix and --data-dir to --datadir (and all the other --*dir's) 18:41:24 <CIA-1> miham * r7803 /trunk/src/lang/ (6 files in 2 dirs): (log message trimmed) 18:41:24 <CIA-1> WebTranslator2 update to 2007-01-03 19:37:39 18:41:24 <CIA-1> bulgarian - 5 fixed by groupsky (5) 18:41:24 <CIA-1> croatian - 72 fixed by knovak (72) 18:41:24 <CIA-1> danish - 25 changed by MiR (25) 18:41:26 <CIA-1> italian - 1 changed by sidew (1) 18:41:26 <CIA-1> norwegian - 2 fixed by oletk (2) 18:41:51 <MiHaMiX> slovenian - 241 fixed, 143 changed by Necrolyte (384) 18:42:15 <Darkvater> MiHaMiX: hehe, need some manual help? ;) 18:42:39 <MiHaMiX> Darkvater: CIA-1 is covardly refused to annotate the whole commitlog :D 18:42:45 <Darkvater> hehe 18:43:12 <Darkvater> MiHaMiX: did you have time to look at flyspray yet? Various people cannot register and are getting php-errors/warnings 18:43:47 <MiHaMiX> Darkvater: yeah, I know the problem 18:44:30 <MiHaMiX> Darkvater: way too many people want to register with jabber notification, which is disabled, but on the register page that's somehow enabled, so I'll modify the source 18:44:50 <Darkvater> he great :s 18:45:11 <MiHaMiX> Total percentage: 18:45:12 <MiHaMiX> 92% - 7177 bad strings out of 96288 strings (2832 strings / language) 18:45:14 <Eddi|zuHause2> what exactly is jabber anyway? 18:45:26 <Darkvater> some gay instant messenger 18:45:33 <MiHaMiX> http://www.jabber.org/ 18:45:36 <qball> google thingy uses it 18:45:37 <qball> gtalk 18:45:48 <MiHaMiX> qball: not exactly 18:45:55 <MiHaMiX> qball: GTalk != jabber 18:46:30 <qball> well I can connect to gtalk with my jabber client, and send from my jabber account to gtalk adresses 18:46:35 <qball> so atleast it works with it 18:47:01 <Eddi|zuHause2> bäh, way too many websites break when you change the font size 18:47:18 <Smoovious> MiHaMiX... I wasn't able to register with email notification 18:47:27 <stillunknown> openttd is a bitch to install 18:47:44 <MiHaMiX> qball: a whole lot other IM clients works with GTalk 18:47:56 <MiHaMiX> Smoovious: PM your email address pls 18:49:00 <qball> using the jabber protocoll. 18:49:47 <Biff> stillunknown: why? 18:50:48 <stillunknown> because i have made quite a few ebuilds in my life, and rarely do i encounter non-default names, i can't give a list, but i do know those 18:51:49 <peter1138> most programs use autoconf, of course 18:52:54 <stillunknown> quite a few i suppose 18:53:20 <Biff> ok 18:54:08 <stillunknown> the original ebuild was a mess as well (which i found somewhere), but i can't even get this to work anymore 18:54:19 <stillunknown> won't pick up my datadir, even though i am giving it 18:54:39 <MiHaMiX> anyone else having problems registering to bugs.openttd.org ? 18:55:09 <peter1138> stillunknown: why is this suddenly a problem, anyway? 18:55:12 <peter1138> we've had configure for ages... 18:55:36 <stillunknown> the previous ebuild seemed to feed all sorts of data into make 18:55:49 <stillunknown> and i never used configure before the change 18:56:28 <Maedhros> i tried to make an ebuild for 0.5.0_rc2, but i got fed up of it spending ages compiling and the failing to install 18:56:34 <Maedhros> s/the/then/ 18:56:39 <stillunknown> btw, how do i get custom bridgeheads? 18:57:09 <Darkvater> branches/cbh 18:57:11 <glx> svn co svn://svn.openttd.org/branches/custombridgeheads 18:57:16 *** thgergo [~th_gergo@dsl51B7A1B2.pool.t-online.hu] has joined #openttd 18:57:30 <stillunknown> i mean, how do i built them 18:57:38 <glx> configure && make 18:57:40 <stillunknown> i wanted to test, but i just get normal bridges 18:57:53 <Maedhros> just build railway track over the top of the bridgehead 18:58:22 <peter1138> hee 18:58:24 <Darkvater> the name is much more exciting than the feature itself 18:58:29 <peter1138> i changed cargo slot 0 to be coal 18:58:54 <peter1138> my bus stations take coal :/ 18:58:59 <Darkvater> that's not good :) 18:59:55 <Wolf01> /usr/src/openttd/trunk/src/fontcache.c:17:22: ft2build.h: No such file or directory 18:59:55 <Wolf01> /usr/src/openttd/trunk/src/fontcache.c:18:10: #include expects "FILENAME" or <FILENAME> 18:59:57 <Wolf01> mmm 19:00:14 <Rubidium> stillunknown: could you post you ideas about the parameter namings of makefile rewrite in http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?t=29411? 19:00:29 <Rubidium> Wolf01: read the wiki! 19:00:49 <stillunknown> i'll let it sink in for a moment, maybe i'll think of some more 19:01:04 <Wolf01> i read the wiki, i'm compiling! 19:01:24 <Rubidium> oh, hmm... I think I forgot to add something :) 19:01:43 <peter1138> Darkvater: think that's how it's supposed to work... the original slots are still hardcoded in functionality, but you can change them 19:01:49 <Wolf01> oh, maybe i forgot to add --disable-static 19:02:14 *** Sacro [Ben@adsl-213-249-186-101.karoo.KCOM.COM] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 19:02:18 <Rubidium> libfreetype2's freetype-config --cflags does not have ft2build.h in the 19:02:19 <Rubidium> path include search path. The workaround for this is to copy 19:02:19 <Rubidium> /usr/include/ft2build.h to /usr/include/freetype2/. Also linking does 19:02:19 <Rubidium> not work for static builds as freetype-config does not support that. 19:02:23 <Rubidium> You have to add the '--disable-static' flag when running './configure'. 19:02:40 <Rubidium> will update the wiki later tonight 19:02:45 <Rubidium> bbl :) 19:04:07 <Wolf01> cya 19:04:43 *** GoneWack1 [~gonewacko@c18041.upc-c.chello.nl] has joined #openttd 19:04:54 <Wolf01> ok, now i must sync all my patches 19:04:54 *** GoneWacko [~gonewacko@c18041.upc-c.chello.nl] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:04:58 *** GoneWack1 is now known as GoneWacko 19:06:22 <stillunknown> Celestar: custom bridge heads work with yapf, but that's about the only one that seems to do ok 19:06:47 <KUDr> i am working on NTP 19:07:33 <stillunknown> otherwise a pretty feature 19:07:55 <stillunknown> not so usefull without signals on bridges 19:08:03 <Wolf01> mmm cygfreetype-6.dll not found when running the compiled ottd 19:08:40 *** Sacro [Ben@adsl-213-249-186-101.karoo.KCOM.COM] has joined #openttd 19:09:31 *** GoneWack1 [~gonewacko@c18041.upc-c.chello.nl] has joined #openttd 19:10:22 *** Tefad [~tefad@c-71-63-10-125.hsd1.va.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 19:11:37 *** GoneWacko [~gonewacko@c18041.upc-c.chello.nl] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 19:11:37 *** GoneWack1 is now known as GoneWacko 19:11:51 <MiHaMiX> ok, jabber is no longer available option 19:14:24 *** Sacro_ [Ben@adsl-213-249-186-101.karoo.KCOM.COM] has joined #openttd 19:15:23 <SpComb> for what? 19:15:52 <peter1138> you 19:16:46 *** Sacro [Ben@adsl-213-249-186-101.karoo.KCOM.COM] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 19:17:21 <stillunknown> SpComb: notification of bugs 19:17:28 <stillunknown> when signing up 19:17:52 <stillunknown> i must admit, some pretty small junctions can be built with cbh 19:22:55 <stillunknown> woo, found a bug with yapf 19:23:12 <stillunknown> ooh, no 19:23:14 <stillunknown> my fault 19:23:15 <KUDr> fix it! 19:23:42 <stillunknown> it was going in circles, but it turns out a signal was in the wrong direction 19:24:31 <KUDr> stillunknown: there is built-in looping also for two way red signals 19:24:56 <KUDr> to allow to use 'waiting loops' like airplanes do 19:25:21 <KUDr> because stopping trains is normally very expensive 19:25:39 <peter1138> ... 19:25:47 <peter1138> i'm fairly sure trains stop more often than loop... 19:26:09 <KUDr> true 19:26:14 <KUDr> but in ottd too 19:26:43 <stillunknown> KUDr: so ottd is going to be converted to "C++" 19:26:57 *** Purno [~Purno@5351CE08.cable.casema.nl] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:27:15 <KUDr> stillunknown: i am not the only one who can decide and do it 19:27:21 <KUDr> we must agree 19:27:40 <KUDr> or at least i can start working on it and we will see 19:28:04 <KUDr> but if there are objections that would prevent merging i would like to know it before 19:28:18 <KUDr> but it will not be C++ 19:28:23 <KUDr> it stays as it is 19:28:48 <KUDr> but will allow to use some C++ stuff easily where it will be optimal 19:29:07 <KUDr> case by case we will discuss it 19:29:10 <stillunknown> it will be c++, but not class based 19:29:20 <stillunknown> got an assertion :-( 19:29:23 <KUDr> not that we will do all OO 19:29:51 <stillunknown> openttd: /storage/tempstorage/downloads/openttd5/custombridgeheads/src/train_cmd.c:3150: TrainController: Assertion `chosen_track==1 || chosen_track==2 || chosen_track==4 || chosen_track==8 || chosen_track==16 || chosen_track==32' failed. 19:29:51 <stillunknown> Aborted 19:29:53 <KUDr> subset of C++ 19:29:56 <stillunknown> any idea what that is? 19:29:58 <KUDr> well known as C 19:30:16 <KUDr> yes 19:30:20 <KUDr> cbh related 19:30:24 <stillunknown> known bug? 19:30:41 <KUDr> one of many 19:30:49 <KUDr> what position was train in? 19:31:18 <KUDr> leaving wormhole / entering cbh with choice? 19:31:29 <stillunknown> it was blocked 19:31:35 <KUDr> on signal 19:31:40 <stillunknown> yes 19:31:40 <KUDr> red 19:31:47 <KUDr> but 19:31:47 <stillunknown> and on turn around it asserts 19:31:56 <KUDr> signal on cbh is disabled now 19:32:11 <stillunknown> you want screenshot? 19:32:11 <KUDr> aha 19:32:15 <KUDr> reversing 19:32:21 <KUDr> on bridge 19:32:25 <stillunknown> yes 19:32:26 <KUDr> yes it is known 19:32:31 <KUDr> ok, thanks 19:33:54 <Rubidium> Wolf01: that library should be somewhere on your system; just copy it to the directory where openttd's binary is placed (bin) 19:41:42 *** Digitalfox [~digitalfo@bl8-41-120.dsl.telepac.pt] has joined #openttd 19:41:45 <Wolf01> ok, all the dll found, ottd doesn't work... black screen with the mouse pointer 19:41:48 <SpComb> Logs: http://zapotek.paivola.fi/~terom/logs/openttd 19:41:48 <Digitalfox> !logs 19:43:06 <Rubidium> stupid crappy cygwin 19:44:16 <Darkvater> whee I think I found the cause of the intermittent news-message crashes 19:44:23 <Darkvater> which I fixed before half-way 19:44:25 <Wolf01> going back to msys :P 19:45:14 <Darkvater> basically WP(w, news_d).ni points into _news_items[] but those can shuffle around when items are deleted and now news_d->ni can point to the wrong news_item struct 19:45:17 <Darkvater> he 19:49:44 <Wolf01> i was thinking if is possible to pass a name at a town when placing it in the editor instead of generate it, and so don't use custom town names which are limited to 512 19:50:26 <Darkvater> if it's not generated it's custom 19:50:33 <Darkvater> doesn't matter if you pass it or rename it later 19:50:58 *** mosfet [~opera@AC8F1AA0.ipt.aol.com] has joined #openttd 19:50:59 <Wolf01> maybe chose it from the town name list 19:51:31 <Digitalfox> I read something on the logs today from irc, that peter wanted to insert a patch in trunk, anyone knows what it fix or add? 19:51:48 <Darkvater> it's a secret 19:52:06 <Rubidium> peter wants to commit a lot of patches 19:52:29 <Darkvater> fuckers 19:52:35 <Darkvater> I think my tv just broke :( 19:53:06 <MiHaMiX> Darkvater: literally into pieces, or just broke down? 19:53:20 <MiHaMiX> Darkvater: turn on the patch-setting: no TV breakdowns :) 19:53:24 *** Sacro_ [Ben@adsl-213-249-186-101.karoo.KCOM.COM] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 19:53:35 <Digitalfox> Rub-> Peter wants to commit a lot of patches.. Sure but i was refering to one some talked this afternoon 19:53:38 <MiHaMiX> sorry, I know it's not funny if it's really broken down 19:54:02 <Rubidium> Digitalfox: he talked about at least 4 I think 19:54:10 <Digitalfox> ok Rub :) 19:54:18 <Digitalfox> I was just curious 19:54:57 <Darkvater> T_T 19:55:09 <Darkvater> dammit 19:55:14 * Darkvater doesn't have money for a new tv 19:55:51 *** Sacro [~Ben@adsl-213-249-186-101.karoo.KCOM.COM] has joined #openttd 19:56:16 <peter1138> more time for coding? :D 19:56:36 <Darkvater> :) 19:59:05 <Eddi|zuHause2> i have a spare WinTV card 19:59:18 <Sacro> Eddi|zuHause2: me too 19:59:29 <Belugas> Darkvater : sell commits right, you'll be able to buy a new tv 19:59:41 <Sacro> just gone from a WinTV PCI-FM to a HVR-1300 19:59:57 <Darkvater> Belugas: hehe 20:00:13 <Eddi|zuHause2> mine does not have FM 20:00:33 <CIA-1> KUDr * r7804 /branches/custombridgeheads/src/train_cmd.c: [cbh] - Fix: [NTP] suppress false 'Train is lost' message if destination tile was found 20:01:00 <Darkvater> KUDr: what did you do! 20:01:14 <KUDr> fix 20:01:15 <Darkvater> you're supposed to ask before a commit first and pay a fee 20:01:23 <KUDr> hmm 20:01:27 <KUDr> soryy 20:01:33 <KUDr> can i commit, please? 20:01:54 <Darkvater> what's your offer? 20:02:03 <KUDr> 20:02:13 <Darkvater> hmm, anybody else offering more? 20:02:27 <Bjarni> what are we buying? 20:02:32 <Darkvater> commit rights 20:02:40 * KUDr sends Darkvater 20:02:44 <KUDr> thanks 20:02:59 * Darkvater wasn't done with the auction yet :/ 20:02:59 <KUDr> now go and buy TV 20:03:00 <Bjarni> aren't enough 20:03:13 <Darkvater> no it aren't enough 20:03:19 <KUDr> why? 20:03:46 <Bjarni> because we want more 20:03:53 <KUDr> you must offer it in the shop 20:03:54 <Darkvater> well no 20:04:03 <Bjarni> k is acceptable, right? 20:04:05 <Darkvater> I want more and I'm not going to share it with you Bjarni 20:04:15 <Bjarni> o_O 20:04:16 <KUDr> if they will not have any better offer, they will sell it for 20:04:27 <Bjarni> or not at all 20:04:56 <KUDr> depends on DV's diplomatic skills 20:05:02 <Darkvater> I was me getting one of those lcd tv's me knows. Savvy cost are bit more than you knows 20:05:22 <KUDr> ahh 20:05:24 <KUDr> LCD 20:05:34 <KUDr> hmm 20:05:48 * Darkvater greatly appreciates KUDr's donation though 20:05:53 <KUDr> aiming too high i guess 20:05:57 <Darkvater> and grants him eternal commit rights 20:06:05 <KUDr> many thanks my master 20:06:06 <Darkvater> (until revoked) 20:06:52 <KUDr> but any revocation must be delivered to my advocate first 20:06:57 <Bjarni> actually.... in my svn log, KUDr did some stuff and now we are selling commit rights to him... what's going on? :) 20:07:08 <Darkvater> you will hear from my lawyer then in due time 20:07:14 <KUDr> ok 20:07:42 <KUDr> Bjarni: it was my mistake i forgot to ask before 20:07:54 <Darkvater> and an injunction order of course 20:08:27 * Darkvater tries turning on tv 20:08:46 <Bjarni> Darkvater: want to know what I did when my TV burned? 20:08:57 <Darkvater> peed on it? 20:09:02 <Darkvater> doesn't work 20:09:03 <Darkvater> bleh 20:09:16 <Born_Acorn> http://darkvaterturnson.tv 20:09:18 <Bjarni> I unplugged it and took it outside right away, but after that 20:09:33 <Bjarni> server not found 20:09:35 <Bjarni> :P 20:09:42 <Born_Acorn> Can't you read? 20:09:43 <Born_Acorn> [20:09:55] <Darkvater> doesn't work 20:09:49 <Born_Acorn> Therefore, it won't work! 20:09:58 <stillunknown> KUDr Celestar: i found a problem, the bridgehead can't be changed with a train on it, is that intentional? 20:10:09 <stillunknown> because one tracks seems like it's there 20:10:14 <stillunknown> but the train won't go on it 20:10:25 <KUDr> stillunknown: it is another bug only 20:10:46 <KUDr> we must check the real position of the train 20:10:52 <Bjarni> Darkvater: you got a job, right? 20:11:03 <KUDr> not only that it is on the bridge as now 20:11:06 <Darkvater> if you wish to call it that yes :) 20:11:15 <Darkvater> problem is, it barely covers my monthly expenses 20:11:35 <Bjarni> hmm 20:11:38 <Belugas> wait until you have a wife... 20:11:42 <Belugas> and a kid! 20:11:50 * Darkvater doesn't think that's going to help 20:11:55 <Bjarni> prostitution is legal in NL... quick money... 20:11:59 <Belugas> nope... not at all! 20:12:00 <Darkvater> I could sell them though.. 20:12:08 <Belugas> In the contrary mon capitain 20:12:18 <Darkvater> who wants to be my wife? 20:12:30 <qball> not me 20:12:31 <Belugas> with your salary??? Forget it! 20:12:33 <qball> sorry 20:12:35 <KUDr> Darkvater: wait i must ask my wife 20:12:43 <Eddi|zuHause2> 20:12:49 <KUDr> Darkvater: she wants photo first 20:13:33 <Darkvater> http://wiki.openttd.org/index.php/Darkvater 20:13:37 <Darkvater> +3 years 20:13:54 <KUDr> hmm, she refused ;) 20:14:04 <Darkvater> oh that w#$JQW#$ OQIWJ(RVQP#uwqe9- 20:14:04 <Darkvater> ruvqw 20:14:16 <KUDr> no pedofile... and so 20:14:22 * Darkvater instructs lawyer to send letter of injunction to KUDr 20:14:24 <Sacro> Bjarni: i can move abroad and sel my body? 20:14:29 <Darkvater> 23 is not pedophile 20:14:44 <Rubidium> I am also the caretaker of the Windows 'port', and supply the nightly builds for Windows. <- Darkvater, you still provide nightly build? 20:14:57 <KUDr> Darkvater: she told you seem to be much younger 20:15:00 <Darkvater> I was 20:15:11 <KUDr> 20? 20:15:15 <Darkvater> yeah people say that all the time 20:15:31 <Darkvater> http://darkvater.homeip.net/~tfarago/eurostart.jpg 20:15:38 <Darkvater> that's....hmm 20:15:47 <Darkvater> 2 years 20:15:48 <Darkvater> ago 20:15:56 <KUDr> looks better :) 20:16:00 <Belugas> Darkvater, if you want more cash, cut out on the lawyers ;) 20:16:03 <KUDr> maybe we will make a deal 20:16:05 <Bjarni> http://wiki.openttd.org/index.php/Bjarni <-- I like this page. I never touched it and it appeared on it's own 20:16:11 <Bjarni> all of a sudden it was there 20:16:13 <Darkvater> KUDr: she can do part-time :) 20:16:33 <KUDr> cleaning and cooking? 20:16:48 <Darkvater> how is that going to make me money? 20:16:49 <Sacro> :o Bjarni is old 20:16:50 <Wolf01> one of my friends get this error compilimg with cygwin: /usr/lib/gcc/i686-pc-mingw32/3.4.4/../../../libfreetype.a(ftbase.o):ftbase.c(.text+0x2f90): undefined reference to '_setjmp' 20:16:55 <KUDr> this i want her to do here 20:16:55 <Darkvater> no, I'm selling her, remember? 20:16:58 <Sacro> !calc 2007-1745 20:16:59 <_42_> Sacro: 262; 20:17:00 <Bjarni> Sacro: well, I'm older than you 20:17:07 <Sacro> 262 years old it seems 20:17:07 <KUDr> aha! 20:17:12 <KUDr> ok 50/50 20:17:17 <Darkvater> KUDr: the poor wife. You are being very cruel to her 20:17:33 <KUDr> why do you think so 20:17:35 <Bjarni> maybe it's for her own good to be sold and get away from KUDr 20:17:39 <KUDr> you don't know her 20:17:49 <Rubidium> Wolf01: disabled static? 20:17:54 <KUDr> Bjarni: yes 20:18:04 <KUDr> making money by having fun 20:18:14 <KUDr> what more she can wish? 20:18:23 <Darkvater> you're a cruel man 20:18:27 <KUDr> nono 20:18:34 <KUDr> she wants some change 20:18:34 <Bjarni> actually one of the reasons why some people disagreed to open the borders to new EU countries (and why they should not be EU countries) is that they sell women... we don't want that 20:19:13 <caladan> ?? 20:19:27 <caladan> in Poland we dont seel women 20:19:35 <KUDr> Bjarni: she will sell herself and than bring us money 20:19:38 <Darkvater> you trade them for cows? :) 20:19:40 <KUDr> it is different case 20:19:47 <Sacro> where can i buy a woman? 20:20:09 * Sacro goes to sainsburys 20:20:09 <KUDr> Sacro: thailand 20:20:12 <Darkvater> internet 20:20:29 <Bjarni> I find this argument interesting: We should not accept Romania until they got a well working justice system. Now they are in EU, so we can help them to get one, but originally it was a demand for them to get one before joining.... so much for the demands o_O 20:20:59 <Bjarni> <Sacro> where can i buy a woman? <-- Ukraine, Romania, Russia, Africa... you name it 20:20:59 <Darkvater> oh please, this whole EU-join thing is a facade 20:21:22 <caladan> In Poland there's no good justice system either 20:21:33 <Darkvater> have a look at Croatia: that country would actually CONTRIBUTE something to the EU instead of being a bottomless pit to pour money down in and they don't let them join 20:21:37 <Darkvater> why? 20:21:53 <Darkvater> cause of some fluke about some general that even the croatians don't know where he is 20:23:24 * Darkvater wonders if MiHaMiX's wife is for sale? 20:23:28 <Darkvater> She's still "fresh" 20:23:29 <caladan> huh, they consider him a hero, you know... 20:23:40 * Darkvater hides 20:24:26 <ArmEagle> Brianetta heh i downloaded that whole set. Already like the sounds :) 20:24:27 <Bjarni> EU is for the criminals and the really big companies only. Here is a good example: Denmark banned some sort of toxic from food, later EU defined a limit (not ban, only limit) and will now give penalties to Denmark for "having a law, that prevents free competition"... guys, we are going to eat that stuff. We don't want EU to tell us to eat toxic stuff 20:24:31 <Darkvater> I won't state my personal preference here, but let me put it mildly that I don't really approve of the serbians 20:24:42 *** KritiK [~Maxim@ppp85-141-227-143.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 20:24:52 *** Darkvater was kicked from #openttd by MiHaMiX [can you guess the answer? :P] 20:25:06 <caladan> Sweet :D 20:25:12 *** Darkvater [~tfarago@tin.liacs.nl] has joined #openttd 20:25:12 *** mode/#openttd [+o Darkvater] by ChanServ 20:25:16 <Darkvater> we agree then 20:25:24 <caladan> There are many stupid laws in EU... 20:25:37 <CIA-1> maedhros * r7805 /branches/newhouses/src/ (newgrf_house.c town.h town_cmd.c): 20:25:37 <CIA-1> [NewHouses] -Codechange: Remove town->creating since _generating_world already does that job. Also remove a debug statement that makes it hard to see 20:25:37 <CIA-1> anything else. 20:25:45 <Darkvater> Bjarni: you were lucky. In Hungary ever since we've joined the EU supermarkets have been flooded with banned/old/rotten food 20:25:52 *** KritiK [~Maxim@ppp85-141-227-143.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #openttd 20:26:05 <Naksu> Bjarni: it's sometimes the other way around :D 20:26:06 <Maedhros> hmm. nano-- 20:26:13 <caladan> True, in Poland we found lately rice that was banned in EU 20:26:24 <Darkvater> and waste-shipments from western-europe turning whole villages into waste-dumps 20:26:43 <MiHaMiX> Darkvater: the situation is not so dark, I think 20:26:47 <Bjarni> I thought they used Africa for that 20:26:47 <caladan> Like Germans in eastern Poland.... 20:26:51 <Darkvater> I'm telling you: none of the eastern/middle-european countries should've joined the EU 20:27:00 <caladan> No, to far to transport that stuff :/ 20:27:08 <Bjarni> I'm not sure the whole EU idea is a good one 20:27:09 <MiHaMiX> Darkvater: and the law regulations will be make more strict to prevent selling rotten food 20:27:10 <Darkvater> MiHaMiX: have you seen the report on DunaTV? The news guys got chased away 20:27:15 <Digitalfox> I vote for Portugal to become the only country in UE, others are banned.. But we keep the money that is the banks for UE organization.. ;) 20:27:17 <Naksu> Darkvater: slovenia should've 20:27:25 <Naksu> maybe poland too 20:27:34 <MiHaMiX> Naksu: poland? bah 20:27:38 <Bjarni> there is a difference between cooperation and ... well what they are doing 20:27:48 <caladan> What do you mean exactly? :> 20:27:56 <caladan> That meat affair with russia? 20:28:28 * Darkvater moves to... Canada to his big friend Belugas 20:28:34 <SpComb> 1) energy markets 2) ??? 3) world domination 20:28:35 <SpComb> yawn 20:28:38 <caladan> Huh, they dont want our meat, cause some Americans forged papers 20:28:42 <Digitalfox> But serioulsy, sorry to new countries, but 27 is too much.. And there should more restirt laws and condicions to become a UE country 20:28:43 <Naksu> anyways, it's sometimes the other way around with eu regulations 20:28:54 <hylje> SpComb: you forgot profit!! 20:29:02 <Naksu> as per eu regulations you wouldnt be able to sell finnish fish on the domestic market 20:29:06 <MiHaMiX> Digitalfox: EU.. 20:29:12 <Naksu> but we got an exception, yay for us 20:29:37 <Digitalfox> UE -> União Europeia in portuguese.. Sorry about that 20:29:44 <Darkvater> so people 20:29:51 <Darkvater> LET'S GET BACK ON TOPIC 20:29:55 <Darkvater> -------------------------------------------------- 20:30:04 <Darkvater> MY TV BROKE! 20:30:04 <hylje> . 20:30:11 * caladan can fix it :D 20:30:39 <Bjarni> Naksu: well, it's good that you got fish because there was a proposal in EU that Finland is too far to the north to do farming... it would be way better for the economy if Finland imports all food and don't produce anything themselves... That proposal came from Spain (go figure) and was rejected 20:30:47 <Bjarni> but it tells a story anyway 20:31:31 <Bjarni> some people/countries will use EU to hurt other countries so they can increase their own profit 20:31:47 <Bjarni> Spain would benefit if all food sold in Finland should be grown in Spain 20:32:02 <Bjarni> but I fail to see how Finland would gain anything from that 20:32:18 <Naksu> we would gain more free space 20:32:24 <Naksu> because we have so very little of that :) 20:32:44 <hylje> finland is hueg 20:32:45 <caladan> Oh come on, you have no plase to live or what? 20:32:53 <Bjarni> yeah, but if Spain decides not to sell anything to Finland, you would have no food 20:33:21 <Darkvater> Bjarni: then they would have even _more_ free space 20:33:25 <Darkvater> it's a win-win situation 20:33:33 <Noldo> Bjarni: to do farming? 20:33:57 <Bjarni> yeah... growing wheat, potatoes and whatever... should be banned in Finland 20:33:59 <Wolf01> why ottd compiled with cygwin require so many dlls in its folder? 20:34:11 <Bjarni> according to some Spanish EU guy 20:34:14 <Naksu> (i was being sarcastic, we have like... huge tracts of land utterly devoid of anythin) 20:34:18 <caladan> Cause EU said it should be like that :P 20:34:21 <Darkvater> cause cygwin spells gay in kabuchto in reverse 20:34:23 <Noldo> Bjarni: your source? 20:34:24 <glx> Wolf01: they just need to be somewhere in path 20:34:30 <Bjarni> the news 20:34:31 <Rubidium> Wolf01: because it couldn't link libfreetype etc statically 20:34:38 <Bjarni> I don't have a link though 20:34:42 <Bjarni> it was a few years ago 20:34:43 <Naksu> but well 20:34:48 * Darkvater tries the tv once more 20:35:03 <caladan> Darkvater: What's wrong with TV? 20:35:10 <Naksu> we'd probably have a civil war or seccession from the EU on our hands if we were prohibited from farming 20:35:19 <Naksu> considering the madmen in charge 20:35:39 <ArmEagle> hmm, any chance the F1-12 keys could toggle the menus instead of just opening them? 20:35:44 <Bjarni> Darkvater: it's like the guy with the car, that got a broken battery. Nomatter how many times he turns the key, the engine will not start 20:36:58 <Belugas> [15:29] * @Darkvater moves to... Canada to his big friend Belugas <---- GOOD friend, please... big... pfffff 20:37:25 <Bjarni> Naksu: how about making a Nordic trade union (or actually just improve the current one) instead of that EU stuff. EU would be screwed since they get their money from us 20:38:02 <Bjarni> Belugas: don't care about Darkvater. He just think that you are Big Foot or something 20:38:10 *** Peakki [antti@cs181000195.pp.htv.fi] has joined #openttd 20:38:10 <Naksu> Bjarni: i think it'll be a possibility in the future 20:38:24 <Bjarni> we used to have one, but then EU broke it 20:39:45 <Bjarni> you can travel across boarders in EU without showing your passport if you are an EU citizen. The problem is that the only valid identification that EU agreed on using is.... your passport 20:40:05 <Bjarni> so unless you show a valid passport, you can't show that it's ok for you not to bring your passport 20:40:41 <Bjarni> at least that agreement worked in Scandinavia until EU broke that 20:41:23 <hylje> :p 20:41:52 <Bjarni> so people. What do you think? When EU scandalise train signals in the whole of EU, will it be Siemens' signal systems that will be mandatory everywhere (by Germany's request)? 20:42:24 <Bjarni> they talk about doing something like that in 2009 20:42:33 <Naksu> well 20:42:35 <Bjarni> or was it 2008... can't remember 20:43:02 <Naksu> the nordic battlegroup will probably go for a "anything but GERMAN BONUSENGINEERING"-stance 20:43:47 <Bjarni> actually Siemens do a great job in building signals 20:43:49 <Naksu> nothing german except 70-80's bmw's and mercedes-benz cars works in finland 20:43:55 *** mosfet [~opera@AC8F1AA0.ipt.aol.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 20:44:00 <Bjarni> unlike some other companies in EU 20:44:06 <Naksu> Bjarni: they do a great fucking job at building stuff that implodes during winter 20:44:15 <Bjarni> lol 20:44:31 <Bjarni> who built your signal system? 20:44:54 <Naksu> no idea 20:44:58 <Naksu> but the thing is 20:45:06 <Naksu> the trams in helsinki are "quality german engineering" 20:45:10 <CIA-1> miham * r7806 /trunk/src/lang/ (lithuanian.txt unfinished/lithuanian.txt): [Translations] Lithuanian is no longer unfinished, thanks for the current translators! Good work, keep it up! 20:45:27 <Naksu> they need to be shipped to germany like once a month to be serviced because they fucking explode during winter 20:45:41 <Bjarni> :D 20:47:11 <Bjarni> how could do you get it during the winter? 20:47:21 <Naksu> and the new nuclear reactor in olkiluoto is a year late because of "oh lol, there's winter"-problems in every stage of the construction so far 20:48:31 <Bjarni> reminds me of the Metro in Copenhagen. They are without drivers, so they got sensors that will stop them if "something" is on the tracks. Turns out that "something" is not only humans, but also: fog, snow, leaves, rain..... 20:49:11 <CIA-1> miham * r7807 /trunk/projects/ (langs.vcproj langs_vs80.vcproj): [Translations] Fix: r7806. Forgot to generate project files to include lithuanian 20:49:26 <Naksu> also, apparently areva-siemens thinks they're building a playhouse 20:49:40 <Bjarni> I consider the nuclear plant in Olkiluoto (I presume that you got the name right) to be a big mistake 20:50:00 <Naksu> it is 20:50:24 <Naksu> not only is the technology horribly outdated but areva-siemens has done nothing right so far 20:50:41 <Naksu> i'm surprised if the reactor doesnt explode during a test run 20:51:04 <hylje> lol, winter 20:51:13 <Bjarni> nuclear power have proven to be pretty dangerous. Even though the risks aren't that great, they are still there and what about radiative waste? We know what to do about it for the next say 200 years, but they need to protect it for like forever 20:51:43 <hylje> the majorly soviet technology-based Loviisa reactors have been working flawlessly now 20:51:52 <Naksu> Bjarni: i don't think nuclear power itself is bad 20:51:54 <Naksu> just that 20:51:58 <Bjarni> majority... 20:52:22 <hylje> and there's half of the components needed for Loviisa III been warehoused around the plant 20:52:30 <Naksu> EPR is basically a rehash of old 60's technology 20:52:33 <Bjarni> so we should accept 5% of them to be insecure? 20:53:03 <Naksu> still, i think they should've built a VHTR-style reactor 20:53:50 <Naksu> Bjarni: the 4th generation reactor as pretty flawless when it comes to meltdown etc. security 20:54:22 <Darkvater> bleh 20:54:26 <Bjarni> Sweden once built a nuclear plant next to Stockholm. They then figured that it was too close to their capital and it was torn down. They built one next to Copenhagen instead though... 20:54:55 <Bjarni> now they are closing that one as well 20:55:00 <CIA-1> rubidium * r7808 /branches/masterserver_updater/: 20:55:00 <CIA-1> [MasterServer-Updater] This branch is an effort to make the masterserver and 20:55:00 <CIA-1> website's serverlist updater use the same base-code for the networking part 20:55:00 <CIA-1> as trunk does. It also tackles the current 'misdesign' that the masterserver 20:55:00 <CIA-1> updates the game information of the website's serverlist instead of only the 20:55:02 <CIA-1> server state (online/offline). 20:55:22 <Naksu> or wait 20:55:24 <Darkvater> Rubidium: can you tell me how one adds new source or language file? 20:55:31 <Naksu> i think the pebble-bed vhtr reactors are called just htr :E 20:55:39 <Naksu> anyways, those are nice 20:55:44 <Naksu> just fucking expensive to build 20:56:12 <Bjarni> I consider the main issue with modern nuclear power to be the radioactive waste 20:56:12 <Rubidium> source files are added to sources.list. When languages and/or sources are added, you have to run projects/generate 20:56:36 <Bjarni> we should not generate it without knowing how to deal with it until it's not harmful anymore 20:57:09 <Rubidium> sources.list has the MSVC groupings 'encoded' in itself, so you have to find the correct location to place the file. 20:57:21 <Darkvater> Rubidium: so but I see MiHaMiX changed langs.vcproj. What about that? 20:57:23 <caladan> Naksu: Wow, how do you know nuclear plant so well 20:57:34 <Rubidium> Darkvater: also done via projects/generate 20:58:01 <Bjarni> caladan: terrorists always figure out how to strike at the weakest link when it's most unexpected 20:58:04 <Bjarni> :P 20:58:05 <Naksu> yes 20:58:18 *** thgergo [~th_gergo@dsl51B7A1B2.pool.t-online.hu] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 20:58:33 <Darkvater> Rubidium: but where do you add them? 20:59:02 <Rubidium> you don't 20:59:15 <Rubidium> it just looks at the src/lang/ directory 20:59:33 <Rubidium> it basically adds src/lang/*.txt 20:59:55 <Darkvater> ah good 21:00:10 <Darkvater> so you add a file, then run projects/generate and then commit? 21:00:11 *** BFM [~chatzilla@CPE-138-130-140-81.nsw.bigpond.net.au] has joined #openttd 21:00:30 <Rubidium> yes 21:00:51 <Rubidium> also if you update one of the projects/*.in files 21:00:56 *** scia [~scia@AveloN.xs4all.nl] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 21:00:56 <Darkvater> how does one do this in windows ;p 21:01:09 <Rubidium> mingw/cygwin? 21:01:16 <Darkvater> if you don't have that 21:01:20 <hylje> you get that 21:01:25 <Darkvater> I'm not 21:01:31 <hylje> oh yes you are 21:01:36 <Darkvater> no I'm not 21:01:46 <Rubidium> Darkvater: as you did before 21:02:39 <Darkvater> in the project file itself which will be overwritten unless also sources.list is updated 21:03:01 <Darkvater> not that I won't shell into somewhere *nix-like to run generate, but just being a general ass ;p 21:03:43 <Rubidium> that's because windows doesn't supply you with powerfull enough out-of-the-box tools to do it automatically 21:04:00 <Darkvater> yes it does! bat files! 21:04:13 <Darkvater> well whatever 21:04:14 <hylje> windows command line is inferior 21:05:22 <glx> Rubidium: and with mingw it fails :) 21:05:34 <glx> (eol conflicts) 21:06:19 <Rubidium> glx: could be solved by making all project files svn:eol-style unix :) 21:06:34 <glx> yes but msvc won't like it 21:07:44 *** [gen2]niki [~niki@p50909FCD.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #openttd 21:07:55 <Rubidium> what about unix2dos after generate? 21:09:05 *** Osai [~Osai@pD9EB545D.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 21:09:11 <glx> same problem :/ 21:12:22 *** Osai [~Osai@pD9EB7AF7.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 21:14:55 <Darkvater> it seems I'm not getting back the tv anytime soon so I'll just do some coding 21:19:52 *** DJ_Mirage [~sexybigge@biggetje.xs4all.nl] has quit [Quit: www.sexybiggetje.nl] 21:31:16 <peter1138> bye 21:31:37 <peter1138> i'm gonna fix up some issues with sprlimit... 21:33:39 *** Rexxie [~rexxars@ti131310a080-16111.bb.online.no] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 21:34:00 <Bjarni> Darkvater: when my TV broke, I bought a TV tuner for the computer... it was a valid price for me, specially compared to what a real TV costs. Also it turned out that using a digital tuner to catch a digital signal and using it on a computer totally outranks normal TV, so that's a bonus 21:34:15 <Bjarni> I can watch one channel and record another if they are in the same multiplex 21:34:19 <Bjarni> highly recommended :) 21:34:32 * ln- has been doing that for over 2 years 21:34:58 <Darkvater> Bjarni: I need the tv to watch dvd's or xvid's streamed from the pc 21:35:08 <Darkvater> haven't used it for anything else much in years 21:35:14 <Darkvater> peter1138: gn peter1138 :) 21:35:28 <Bjarni> so you need a bigger monitor? 21:35:35 <ln-> what's the digital tv situation in the netherlands? 21:35:39 <Darkvater> sucks 21:35:46 <ln-> elaborate 21:36:10 <Darkvater> bigger monitor doesn't help cause one can't sit around it or put it in the centre of the room 21:36:28 <Bjarni> we only got 3 channels so far, but they got plans to extend it... I didn't lose any analogue channels that I miss though 21:36:36 <Darkvater> well we have digital tv but it costs a lot, you need to pay a lot more oif you want more channels and 21:36:43 <Gonozal_VIII> why would one do such a thing with a monitor? 21:37:00 <Darkvater> but I think this is general; you need 2 decoders if you have 2 tv's and want to watch seperate channels on each 21:38:57 <caladan> TV suxx, it uses so much money... 21:38:59 <caladan> and time 21:39:00 <Gonozal_VIII> "sit around it or put it in the centre of the room" <-- that's what you do with fire.. but tv? 21:39:02 *** |Jeroen| [~jeroen@dD5772982.access.telenet.be] has quit [Quit: Whoopsy] 21:39:25 <Darkvater> Gonozal_VIII: you want to eat it or what? 21:39:47 <caladan> did any one spot something like that: 21:39:50 <caladan> ===> Compiling music/extmidi.c 21:39:50 <caladan> ===> Linking openttd 21:39:50 <caladan> fontcache.o: In function `LoadFreeTypeFont': 21:39:50 <caladan> fontcache.c:(.text+0x1eb): undefined reference to `FcFini' 21:40:28 <Darkvater> --disable-static? 21:40:40 <caladan> ok 21:40:50 <Darkvater> just guessing from what I've read from Rubidium 21:40:58 <Gonozal_VIII> i put it in front of me... what would be the point in putting it in the center of the room? was your tv some kind of holographic 3d all side view thingie? 21:41:27 <Darkvater> fine, in the centre in front of the wall 21:41:33 <Darkvater> why do you have to be so anal? 21:41:47 <Brianetta> I'll get a TV when I don't have to apply for a license 21:41:51 <Gonozal_VIII> because i'm good at that 21:41:51 <Brianetta> I'd fail the test anyway 21:42:14 <Rubidium> Darkvater: no, caladan use a newer fontconfig, your one it too old (should be detected though) 21:42:35 <caladan> so it wasnt 21:42:48 <caladan> no errors prior to that 21:43:47 <Darkvater> https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?func=detail&atid=636365&aid=1623073&group_id=103924 21:43:51 <Rubidium> caladan: what does 'pkg-config fontconfig --modversion' say? 21:44:10 <Darkvater> did someone do anything to town-road-building? It looks like in RC1 a town overbuilt a bridge or something 21:44:14 <Bjarni> <Darkvater> but I think this is general; you need 2 decoders if you have 2 tv's and want to watch seperate channels on each <--- the DVB standard allows devices with one tuner to get more than one channel if they are in the same multiplex. DVB-T got a limit of 5 (I think), while DVB-S and DVB-C got way higher (15?) 21:44:36 <Bjarni> imagine being able to watch 15 channels at once (or record if you like) with a single tuner 21:44:40 <Darkvater> Bjarni: then we're ripped off with crappy decoders cause they say you need a second one 21:44:54 <Bjarni> :P 21:45:12 <Bjarni> I recorded 3 different movies at once at one time with a single tuner 21:45:18 <caladan> Rubidium: 2.2.3 21:45:42 <Rubidium> and ./configure didn't complain? 21:45:51 <caladan> no config made 21:45:59 <caladan> i was told yestarday make is enought 21:46:06 <caladan> that it is done 21:46:09 <Bjarni> but I have yet to see a tuner directly for TVs, that can do that. All the tuners with that ability that I have seen so far have been for computers 21:46:19 <Rubidium> caladan: you're using 0.5.0-rc2? 21:46:31 <caladan> yes 21:46:36 <caladan> trying to compile thatr 21:46:41 <Rubidium> hmm, ok, that doesn't complain about it 21:46:51 <Darkvater> Bjarni: ah ok then; that explains 21:47:37 <caladan> so shall i upgrade that fontconfig? 21:47:50 <Rubidium> you need to either update libfontconfig to 2.4.x or disable fontconfig in Makefile.config; for the last there must be an entry in Makefile.config like WITH_FONTCONFIG, remove the version number from that line 21:48:06 <pv2b> are jets OK at commuter airports+ 21:48:08 <pv2b> ? 21:48:12 <caladan> rgr 21:49:46 <Bjarni> Darkvater: when you think about it, it's actually somewhat logically. You will need a computer with a decent HD and decent CPU power to handle multiple MPEG-2 streams realtime 21:50:54 <Bjarni> and don't think about adding multiple hardware MPEG-2 decoders... that could be expensive compared to how often they are used 21:51:08 <Darkvater> Bjarni: MPEG2 is peanuts, so many el-cheapo dvd player can handle it 21:51:23 <Darkvater> I still think it's a rip-off 21:51:33 <Bjarni> me too 21:51:35 <Bjarni> but 21:51:43 <Darkvater> you get all hyped up for digital tv and then have to buy a zillion decoders just to be able to watch it at home 21:51:55 <Darkvater> and I haven't seen too many tv's out there with a decoder built in 21:52:01 <Bjarni> I have yet to figure out a good way normal TVs can benefit from this, but... we pay them to figure that out ;) 21:53:42 <blathijs> Darkvater: Dunno, we got one for free. Quality is a lot better than analog, even on a ordinary TV 21:53:53 <Bjarni> to benefit for the nice stuff in digital TV signals, you got to have a decoder, that can handle all of the incoming stuff. Whenever I record something, I record the incoming stream, so if it contains multiple languages, multiple video angles (not used yet here), subtitles and so on, I can control that when I play it, rewind and try again with a different setting if I like 21:54:18 <Bjarni> also setting 16x9 or 4x3 at playback time 21:54:25 <Darkvater> blathijs: UPC or Casema? 21:54:43 <blathijs> Darkvater: Neither. We have the "Centrale Antenne Inrichting Harderwijk" :-D 21:54:49 <Darkvater> .. 21:55:07 <blathijs> We were one of the first to have a choice in cable internet too :-) 21:55:21 <blathijs> But I think UPC gives away a decoder as well? 21:56:03 <Darkvater> I have Casema 21:56:17 <Darkvater> they say digital tv is for free but you have to pay about 90 euros 21:57:13 <Darkvater> m het digitale signaal te ontvangen, heeft u een digitale ontvanger nodig (verkrijgbaar vanaf EUR 99,--) en een Casema DTV-pack (EUR 29,95). 21:57:27 <Darkvater> so goodby and fuck you sir 21:57:54 <blathijs> hmm.. 21:58:06 *** Belugas is now known as Belugas_Gone 21:58:16 <Belugas_Gone> on those kind words, good night all 21:58:21 <Darkvater> but wait, 99 is just the basic decode that does nothing. for only 399 you can buy a better one 21:58:21 <BFM> Night mate! 21:58:27 <Darkvater> Belugas_Gone: gn Belugas! :D 21:59:14 <Maedhros> night Belugas_Gone 21:59:31 <Darkvater> and if you want any HDTV signal you're cut back 299 21:59:37 <Darkvater> sad; just sad 22:00:10 <Darkvater> I'll stick to xvid and dvd-r, thank you 22:00:15 <Noldo> I've heard that the "full feature" cards are not worth it 22:00:23 <Darkvater> at least when I get a new tv :) 22:01:31 <pv2b> bah. tv. an antiquated method of one-way media distribution. 22:02:25 <Bjarni> true 22:02:52 <Bjarni> but it's well established by now 22:03:01 <pv2b> we'll see how long it lasts. 22:03:10 <Bjarni> years 22:03:13 <Bjarni> many years 22:03:14 <Noldo> is there a better one for one-way media distribution? 22:03:14 <pv2b> i for one haven't owned one fo years 22:03:37 <pv2b> Noldo: if you want to do one-way media distribution at a specific time, tv is actually a pretty good technology 22:03:50 <pv2b> it's an excellent technology for live coverage of world events, sports, etc 22:04:12 <Bjarni> here we got a law that states that two certain TV channels have to be reachable by everybody because in case of the government needs to tell the people something, they should be able to quickly access everybody 22:04:17 <Bjarni> like wartime and whatever 22:04:36 <Bjarni> really nasty weather 22:04:46 <pv2b> for tv shows, movies, etc, i definitely don't want to be the slave to the television channels deciding what to watch when 22:04:50 <Bjarni> burning chemical factories and so on 22:05:01 <pv2b> Bjarni: in sweden, we do that on the radio, much more sensible 22:05:02 <Noldo> pv2b: agreed 22:05:10 <Bjarni> they use the radio for that as well, just to really be able to access everybody in no time 22:05:19 <pv2b> after all, are you likely to have TV reception in the cellar -- or even TV? :-) 22:06:06 <Bjarni> at one time, I didn't watch TV or heard radio, and then they needed to get a message out to me anyway 22:06:17 <Bjarni> so they started the air alarm thing 22:06:25 <pv2b> if something really impotant happens they start the air alarm here too 22:06:26 <Bjarni> then the radio told what was going on 22:06:30 <pv2b> as well as testing it four times a year 22:06:33 <Darkvater> is that a private kinda thing? :) 22:06:41 <Bjarni> turned out somebody had dug into a main gas pipe (oops) 22:07:03 <Bjarni> really main one, so they started evacuating people due to the amount of gas in the air 22:07:28 <Bjarni> Darkvater: the air alarm? 22:07:53 <glx> here they test it every first wednesday of month 22:07:59 <Bjarni> you know it.... whenever you see anything on TV from WW2 and you hear the incoming bomber alert, they use that kind of thing 22:08:14 <Gonozal_VIII> every saturday noon 22:08:30 <Bjarni> here they used to test it every Wednesday at 12:00 22:08:42 <Bjarni> now it's just once a year because people complained that it was too noisy 22:08:48 <Noldo> Bjarni: here every Monday about 12:00 22:09:02 <Bjarni> they do make silent tests each week though 22:09:07 <Gonozal_VIII> should be 4 am or something :-) 22:09:25 <Bjarni> yeah 22:09:33 <Bjarni> hmm 22:11:07 <Bjarni> reminds me of a church person (not the priest) in Norway, who thought he should let the bells ring all Christmas day. After 5 hours he began to wonder if that was right and started reading the rules and then rushed to the church to turn them off 22:11:32 <Bjarni> issue, that made him wonder: his kids could not sleep 22:13:39 <pv2b> Bjarni: huh? :-) 22:14:04 <Bjarni> some guy misread the rules and let the church bells ring for 5 hours 22:16:02 <Wolf01> night 22:16:05 *** Wolf01 [~wolf01@host234-194-dynamic.58-82-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [] 22:16:41 <pv2b> Bjarni: and nobody complained? 22:18:06 <Darkvater> his kids :) 22:18:26 <Brianetta> Nobody feels justified complaining about church bells 22:18:48 <Brianetta> despite the fact that they're exceeded in sheer teeth-grinding annopyingness only by Scottish bagpipes 22:19:12 *** Sacro [~Ben@adsl-213-249-186-101.karoo.KCOM.COM] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 22:20:00 <caladan> Rubidium: thx, its working now :-) 22:20:08 <Darkvater> holy crap 22:20:15 <Darkvater> tons of RC2 servers 22:20:35 <blathijs> We probably have a lot of those people 22:20:38 <blathijs> "user" 22:20:39 <blathijs> +s 22:20:58 <Darkvater> it's good to see though 22:21:05 <Darkvater> one 0.4.5 server... 22:21:06 <blathijs> indeed 22:21:17 <Darkvater> think the guy forgot he had a server running or something? 22:22:08 <blathijs> or never bothered to upgrade: "It works, right?" :-) 22:22:29 <Darkvater> we should crash his server ^^ 22:22:36 <Darkvater> I still have test's exploits 22:22:50 <pv2b> do they allow arbitrary code execution? 22:23:10 <pv2b> you could hack it with some shellcode goodness and upgrade to rc2 for him 22:23:10 <pv2b> :-) 22:23:18 <Darkvater> I think some did yes 22:23:26 <Darkvater> %s vulnerability 22:23:38 <Darkvater> and several missing checks with which you can crash a server 22:24:16 <Darkvater> http://nvd.nist.gov/nvd.cfm?cvename=CVE-2006-1998 22:24:18 <hylje> :o 22:24:39 <CIA-1> glx * r7809 /trunk/projects/generate: -Fix: convert \r to \n before parsing files with awk in projects/generate so it works using mingw/msys 22:25:18 *** Gonozal_VIII [~Gono@62.47.47.144] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 22:26:20 <Darkvater> or even a better one: if you have a malicious server advertised to the master server any affectd clients will not be able to see the master-server list and get kicked out immediately to main menu 22:26:26 <Zuu> Have anyone seen my patch yet? 22:26:37 <Zuu> Or is it to hidden? 22:26:47 <hylje> :D 22:26:57 <Zuu> too* 22:27:11 <hylje> nice sploits 22:27:23 *** Gonozal_VIII [~Gono@N944P022.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has joined #openttd 22:28:55 *** Sacro [Ben@adsl-213-249-186-101.karoo.KCOM.COM] has joined #openttd 22:30:55 <Darkvater> Zuu: what's your patch? 22:31:07 <Zuu> It's a bugfix for the airport-thing. 22:31:17 <Darkvater> ah, the radiusone 22:31:28 <Darkvater> I'll might take a peek 22:31:30 <hylje> i want a -1 by -4 airstrip 22:31:39 <Darkvater> although KUDr is the actual responsible one ;p 22:31:47 <Darkvater> <- evil 22:31:50 <KUDr> ? 22:31:51 <hylje> :o 22:32:04 <Zuu> I uploaded it to the bugreport, and then I noticed that you can create patch entrys in the tracker :/ 22:32:15 <hylje> btw kudr, you are aware that road vehicles with yapf might get lost in an infinite loop 22:32:22 <hylje> in a city with looped roads 22:32:26 <Zuu> Darkvater: :p 22:32:35 <Darkvater> KUDr: remember the remembered station acceptance areas? It doesn't play nicely some times with certain stations and asserts 22:32:50 <KUDr> hylje: no, do you have some simple case? 22:33:15 <hylje> i could reproduce it three times 22:33:21 <KUDr> Darkvater: the same. Need simple test case 22:33:22 <hylje> ill try to do so again in a clean environment 22:33:27 <Darkvater> Zuu: ^ 22:33:43 <KUDr> hylje: would be nice 22:33:57 <hylje> actually, i bumped into it four times 22:34:30 <Zuu> Darkvater: ? 22:34:41 <Darkvater> Zuu: show testcase to KUDr 22:34:42 <KUDr> Zuu: what number? 22:34:57 <Zuu> http://bugs.openttd.org/task/504 22:35:13 <Zuu> Includes patch redy to apply ;) 22:35:44 <Zuu> Lot of text to read if you want too :) 22:36:39 <Zuu> KUDr: A better way to reproduce: set station_spread=4, build any airport bigger than 4. 22:36:57 <KUDr> ok 22:37:01 <KUDr> will try 22:40:29 <Zuu> I think the patch I made does not include any new bugs and indeed it works. (the assertion is not executed). But I guess you want to have a look on it too as it is 'your' area. 22:41:56 <glx> hmm when I decrease station spread with rail station build window open, max platform/length is updated, but it's not updated when I increase station spread 22:43:29 <Bjarni> heh 22:43:49 <ln-> cmd <-> ctrl 22:44:30 *** [gen2]niki [~niki@p50909FCD.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 22:46:45 <blathijs> 23:32 < Zuu> I uploaded it to the bugreport, and then I noticed that you can create patch entrys in the tracker :/ <-- If the patch fixes a bug, it's better placed with the bugreport 22:47:00 <Zuu> blathijs: Ok. 22:49:52 <Zuu> [design dilema] Should one be allowed to build arports larger than station spread? Guess no, but it is not trival. 22:50:46 <Bjarni> you mean you want to decrease the station spread to a level where the largest airports aren't allowed? 22:52:29 <Zuu> I played a MP game yesterday with station_spread = 4, and today I host a similar one. I see it as a difficulty option rather than memory option when it is set so low, and having a intercontinental airport when you can only have 4x4 railway-stations are a bit odd. 22:53:10 <Zuu> On the other hand having only small airports is a bit limited.. but I think that would be better than all airports. 22:53:45 <Zuu> I counted intercontinental to 11x[someting <11] and deafault station_spread is 12. So it does not affect defualt settings. 22:54:48 <Zuu> But I see that it requires updates to the GUI if airports are dissabled due to station_spread is set low, which might require some hours to fix. 22:55:33 <SpComb> ....uuuu 22:55:36 <Zuu> So for 0.5 I think just fixing the assertion => leting one build any airport, will be enoght. 22:55:49 <Zuu> Or am I out in the wild now? 22:55:55 <CIA-1> KUDr * r7810 /trunk/src/station_cmd.c: -Fix: FS#504 Building airport whose size exceeds max station spread-out caused assert. (Zuu) 22:56:07 <KUDr> Zuu: can you test it please? 22:56:34 <Zuu> KUDr: Sure.. If you just did apply my patch I have ran a server with it for 6 hours or so.. :) 22:56:40 <KUDr> no 22:56:43 <Zuu> Okay. 22:56:46 <KUDr> different one 22:56:50 <Zuu> Okay. 22:57:00 <KUDr> thanks 23:02:07 *** init [~init@c83-250-168-180.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #openttd 23:04:05 <Zuu> KUDr: Works like charm :) 23:05:13 <KUDr> thanx 23:06:45 *** GoneWacko [~gonewacko@c18041.upc-c.chello.nl] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 23:07:04 *** GoneWacko [~gonewacko@c18041.upc-c.chello.nl] has joined #openttd 23:11:45 <ln-> does anyone have a spare HP JetDirect or similar? (a parallel <-> ethernet print server) 23:15:40 <BFM> hp laser jet 5100 here 23:16:02 <BFM> oh, server, my bad 23:18:32 *** Rens2Sea [~Rens2Sea@213.211.185.168] has quit [] 23:19:40 *** init [~init@c83-250-168-180.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Quit: leaving] 23:19:41 *** Gonozal_VIII [~Gono@N944P022.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:27:55 *** Sacro [Ben@adsl-213-249-186-101.karoo.KCOM.COM] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 23:29:50 *** Gonozal_VIII [~Gono@62.47.61.246] has joined #openttd 23:31:52 *** Sacro [~Ben@adsl-213-249-186-101.karoo.KCOM.COM] has joined #openttd 23:32:29 *** Osai is now known as Osai^zZz 23:36:44 *** Peakki [antti@cs181000195.pp.htv.fi] has quit [Quit: Lähdössä] 23:37:34 <CIA-1> rubidium * r7811 /branches/masterserver_updater/ (22 files in 6 dirs): [MSU] -Add: initial file structure, makefiles and copying of some files from /trunk that are useful for the masterserver and updater. 23:37:43 <Darkvater> \o/ 23:39:32 *** gass [~any@81.84.150.238] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 23:39:35 <Sacro> ooh a new branch 23:39:57 *** Neonox [~Neonox@offb-590ebd96.pool.einsundeins.de] has joined #openttd 23:43:58 *** nairan [~Maui_key@p5498F892.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 23:46:42 <nairan> good morning 23:50:16 *** Gonozal_VIII [~Gono@62.47.61.246] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 23:53:01 *** Gonozal_VIII [~Gono@N712P031.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has joined #openttd 23:53:26 <CIA-1> glx * r7812 /trunk/src/rail_gui.c: -Fix: rail station build window was not correctly updated after station_spread change 23:54:52 *** Sacro [~Ben@adsl-213-249-186-101.karoo.KCOM.COM] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 23:55:39 <CIA-1> rubidium * r7813 /trunk/config.lib: -Fix (r7799): it is $with_zlib, not $zlib. 23:56:48 <Darkvater> glx: nice one... 23:56:56 <Darkvater> that whole thing on one line 23:57:01 *** Sacro [~ben@adsl-213-249-186-101.karoo.KCOM.COM] has joined #openttd