Log for #openttd on 21st January 2007:
Times are UTC Toggle Colours

00:01:11  <izhirahider> actually, the only thing different that I can think of was that I was burning a CD while playing
00:01:24  <Rubidium> that should not interfere
00:01:49  <Rubidium> unless the burner process writes in OpenTTD's memory
00:01:53  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: bjarni * r8293 /trunk/src/ (6 files):
00:01:53  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: -Codechange: overloaded ShowVehicleListWindow() so it can open all types of vehicle lists (depending on arguments)
00:01:53  <CIA-1> OpenTTD:  - Also removed some unneeded arguments
00:01:53  <CIA-1> OpenTTD:  - this also allows removing an if-else cascade in ShowVehicleListWindowLocal()
00:13:27  <izhirahider> also, weird thing is the last saved game seemed to have some changes that I didn't made, but probably might be the advanced at night that is making me confuse things
00:13:44  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: bjarni * r8294 /trunk/src/ (vehicle.cpp vehicle.h):
00:13:44  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: -Fix: deleting a vehicle with shared orders, but no orders would fail to reset prev_shared and next_shared
00:13:44  <CIA-1> OpenTTD:  -As a result, vehicles in the game could end up having prev/next pointers to vehicles, that was no longer in the game
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00:19:55  <Ailure> j,,
00:19:57  <Ailure> hmm
00:20:08  <Ailure> I wonder if I should remove the server password from this private game of mine D:
00:23:41  <iamaway> bb#
00:23:48  *** iamaway is now known as Davis`
00:25:39  <Eddi|zuHause> hm... either my keyboard, or my ps/2 port broke...
00:26:08  <Eddi|zuHause> either way it's probably bad
00:30:25  <Ailure> heh
00:30:30  <Ailure> I have a extra keyboard just becuse of that
00:30:36  <Ailure> and that I don't trust my wireless stuff fully
00:30:57  <Ailure> and I could use my laptop mice as well if the wireless mouse breaks
00:31:17  <Ailure> I kinda overdid with the purchase of the laptop mice
00:31:26  <Ailure> I bought one of thoose luxary "gaming" mouses. xD
00:31:37  <Ailure> and I hadn't really played that much games
00:31:40  <Ailure> with it
00:32:04  <Ailure> It's one of thoose where you can change sensitivity while using it
00:32:09  <Ailure> which is apparently useful for FPS games
00:32:31  <Ailure> but I could imagine it being useful if you design graphical stuff as well
00:36:38  <setrodox> i really like my razer diamondback also when i don't play games ^^
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01:07:20  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: bjarni * r8295 /trunk/src/ (vehicle.cpp vehicle.h vehicle_gui.cpp):
01:07:20  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: -Cleanup: merged arguments station, order and depot_airport_index for GenerateVehicleSortList() and BuildVehicleList() into one uint16 argument
01:07:20  <CIA-1> OpenTTD:  It turned out that all 3 arguments were the same at all the places those functions are called, so there was no point in having more than one
01:11:17  <Ailure> 12qqwe
01:12:00  <ln-> Bjarni: did you have a look at the opengl blitter?
01:14:39  <Bjarni> not yet
01:14:50  <Bjarni> I have been busy with vehicle lists
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01:23:40  * Smoovious perks.
01:23:43  <Smoovious> vehicle lists? :)
01:26:07  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: bjarni * r8296 /trunk/src/ (vehicle.cpp vehicle.h):
01:26:07  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: -Fix: GenerateVehicleSortList() tried to put a TileIndex into an uint16
01:26:07  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: -Fix: CmdMassStartStopVehicle() tried to put a TileIndex into an uint16
01:26:07  <CIA-1> OpenTTD:  Those two bugs were unrelated to each other and unrelated to r8295, even though that commit touched the code in question
01:26:20  <Bjarni> yeah
01:26:28  <Bjarni> we got them for a while now
01:26:51  <Bjarni> those lists where you get all the vehicles with a certain station in their orders or all of one type and so on
01:27:11  <Bjarni> I'm cleaning up the code right now
01:28:55  *** Belugas is now known as Belugas_Gone
01:29:03  <Smoovious> that's cool... save a lot of work trying to find all the trains with 'station' in their lists...
01:30:03  <Bjarni> we got that list for a while now...
01:30:12  <Bjarni> you should not be surprised to see it now
01:34:04  <Bjarni> goodnight
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01:51:10  <Maedhros> night
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01:57:07  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r8297 /branches/masterserver_updater/ (15 files in 4 dirs): [MSU] -Codechange: move all SQL related functionality out of the server code.
01:57:51  <Naksu> sql-related?
01:58:57  <Rubidium> yup, for the masterserver
01:59:52  <ln-> is that open source?
02:00:01  <ln-> the master
02:01:02  <Rubidium> yes, though this is a rewrite of the original masterserver
02:01:15  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r8298 /branches/masterserver_updater/src/shared/ (server.cpp server.h sql.cpp sql.h): [MSU] -Fix: set svn:eol-style and svn:keywords (svn propset totally fails on directories)
02:02:44  <Rubidium> why wouldn't it be open source? you can even get the sources of the website
02:07:24  <Naksu> Rubidium: out of curiosity, exactly where did you move the sql-related functionality?
02:08:09  <Rubidium> to its own files :)
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04:11:22  <SpComb> Logs: http://zapotek.paivola.fi/~terom/logs/openttd
04:11:22  <Digitalfox> !logs
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04:26:34  <Ailure> INTERENT IS TUBES
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06:36:14  <Tefad> mmm segfault.
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08:04:18  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: tron * r8299 /trunk/src/water_cmd.cpp:
08:04:18  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: -Fix
08:04:18  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: Remove unreachable code
08:21:17  <Tron> peter1138: GetEngineColourMap() in vehicle.cpp, is there a reason to directly use _engine_info?
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08:33:57  <Tefad> i can't seem to remember how to make trains share their orders
08:34:02  <Tefad> has it changed recently?
08:34:32  <hylje> ctrl-click to clone shared orders
08:37:21  <Tefad> right but where
08:37:32  <Tefad> do i select goto then ctrl the source train?
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08:38:11  <Tefad> ctrl+click i mean
08:43:34  <hylje> yes
08:43:57  <hylje> the to-be-shared train should have empty orderlist first
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08:45:26  <Tefad> eh it didn't seem to matter much
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09:11:58  <peter1138> Tron: no
09:12:33  <Tron> k, just noticed it while investigating to move the railtype from EngineInfo to RailVehicleInfo
09:13:20  <Tron> peter1138: is running_cost_base a sensible property for a wagon?
09:15:56  <peter1138> hmm
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09:39:38  <Wolf01> ello
09:39:54  <peter1138> hi
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09:45:19  <MiHaMiX> Darkvater: I tested the japanese changes with strgen, and since the changes were sent to me by the original japanese translator, I thought, they are correct. Was I wrong/
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10:11:54  <Maedhros> morning
10:12:05  <hylje> hey
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10:15:09  <Celestar> morning ...
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10:15:45  <Celestar> how is everyone
10:15:54  <hylje> i think everyone is rather fine
10:16:05  <Purno> I'm fine
10:16:08  <Purno> how's you?
10:16:20  <Celestar> I've been better ...
10:16:27  <Purno> how come?
10:16:41  <Celestar> a friend of mine decided to jump off the roof of a 12-storey building
10:17:03  <Purno> ah I'm sorry to hear :(
10:17:07  <Celestar> gravity 1, friend 0
10:17:17  <Purno> I'm sorry :(
10:17:34  <Celestar> well, life needs to go on
10:17:39  <hylje> i suppose there'll be no rematch
10:17:41  <Purno> not for him... :/
10:18:22  <Celestar> true
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10:19:52  <Celestar> hylje: nope, no rematch :P
10:20:25  <Purno> well, we can only hope he's happier in the place he's now...
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10:21:35  <Celestar> Purno: yeah
10:21:47  <Celestar> maybe I should do some coding to get other ideas into my mind
10:22:26  <Purno> perhaps...
10:22:29  <Purno> it's worth a try
10:22:58  <Celestar> yeah :)
10:26:25  <Smoovious> any of ya hear of a bug in RC4, where new stations, won't register the cargo you're picking up?
10:27:14  <Ailure> hmm
10:27:38  <Celestar> Smoovious: no, do you have a savegame where this is reproducible?
10:27:43  <Ailure> one useful feature would be able to measure company value growth D:
10:27:46  <Ailure> as a derivata or something
10:27:49  <Ailure> or whatever it is in English
10:28:23  <Smoovious> I can send a savegame... I'm hosting... also, I wasn't the first player to notice it... one of my players mentioned it... and I encountered it myself...
10:28:35  <Smoovious> no idea about it being reproducable, or when it started
10:28:44  <Celestar> Smoovious: please send me the savegame and give me the station/industry we are talking about.
10:28:48  <Smoovious> hang on... getting the savegame
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10:33:02  <Smoovious> sorry took so long... putting a sign by each station I know about
10:33:15  <Celestar> Smoovious: multiple stations? :o
10:34:24  <Smoovious> yes... a player, said something about one of his stations... and a little later, when I changed one of my train routes, to refit for goods, come back and pick up goods, and leave, I noticed the station still lists nothing under ratings,
10:34:30  <Smoovious> just like the first player who mentioned it
10:34:36  <Celestar> I see
10:34:41  <Celestar> I needa debug it
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10:34:46  <Smoovious> it'll still accept cargo, but won't give it out... older stations are just fine
10:36:22  <Smoovious> it uses pb_av8w and pb_nars
10:36:32  <Celestar> ok
10:36:52  <hylje> CONGRATULATIONS! YOU ARE THE MASTER OF NOT MOVING YOUR TAUREN
10:37:52  <Smoovious> smoke brb
10:37:59  <Celestar> Smoovious: I still need the savegame :P
10:38:44  <Smoovious> um... hang on, lemme check my flags
10:39:25  <Smoovious> no DCC's?
10:39:43  <Celestar> appears to work
10:40:08  <Smoovious> okee
10:40:53  <Smoovious> I still have the game up, but paused, at that same point in time, if you need to look at it first-hand... tho dunno why you'd need to
10:43:51  <Celestar> Smoovious: ok I'm at that "2nd station encountered"
10:44:22  <peter1138> woo
10:44:26  <peter1138> won on the lottery
10:44:37  <Celestar> peter1138: 3 pounds?
10:44:40  <peter1138> 10 ;(
10:44:48  <Smoovious> ok.. got a sign on the 1st one too
10:44:58  <Celestar> Smoovious: I don't really see the problem?
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10:45:39  <Celestar> Smoovious: the station does get goods for me
10:45:44  <Celestar> (at least on trunk, testing RC4?
10:46:06  <Smoovious> it is showing goods in the ratings?
10:46:14  <Smoovious> and passengersin the ratings on the 1st one?
10:46:28  <Celestar> goods are shown
10:46:29  <Celestar> here
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10:46:35  <Celestar> where is the first one approximately?
10:46:38  <MeusH> heya
10:46:39  <Smoovious> huh... not here...
10:46:49  <Smoovious> Cheedingstone
10:48:17  <Celestar> ok
10:48:22  <Celestar> I see the problem there
10:48:23  <Celestar> interesting
10:48:54  <hylje> peter1138: i won the lotery too. i dunno how much, lol
10:52:28  * Wolf01 wonders why the waypoints gui is broken
10:54:06  <Bjarni> Wolf01: we decided that it would be a good task for you to solve, so we broke it :P
10:54:11  <Bjarni> now go fix it
10:55:34  <Wolf01> now i'm playing, i'm trying to double the single line which crosses the 2048^2 map without going always straight but doing a panoramic tour around the mountains
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11:01:31  <hylje> :o
11:01:36  <hylje> youre silly
11:07:35  <Wolf01> i'm for realism, not for making more money as i can
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11:08:02  <Maedhros> hmm. why is there sign list stuff in graph_gui.cpp?
11:08:21  <Wolf01> (but i must see that every train income is about 100M$ each travel)
11:08:51  <Wolf01> *see->say
11:09:28  <hylje> :o
11:09:34  <hylje> how long trains
11:09:41  <Wolf01> 13+engine
11:10:19  <Wolf01> and i'm at 30 oct 1950 (i'm playing with daylength to 32x)
11:10:48  <hylje> a maglev route that long could be amusing
11:10:49  <Wolf01> so i'm playing since 2 hours and i'm always at the same year i'm started to play
11:11:48  <Celestar> Smoovious: do you have some savegame where station #1 still worked?
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11:17:48  <Celestar> Smoovious: is it possible that there was a crash anywhere nearby at some point?
11:17:55  <Smoovious> station #1 never worked, from the time it was built... and I don't think I have one further back... I've been autosaving monthly and it has been over ayear
11:18:44  <Celestar> Smoovious: it NEVER worked? :o
11:18:49  <Smoovious> a crash? don't think so... last crash I saw was a plane, and I've done a lot of station building since then
11:18:54  <Smoovious> not from the time it was built, no
11:19:00  <Smoovious> I don't think
11:19:02  <Smoovious> lemme make sure
11:20:11  <Smoovious> give us a few... he apparently chose now to hit the can...
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11:40:39  <Smoovious> he said he never was able to pick up passengers from it, from the time it was first built... (which wasn't that long ago... but longer than the autosaves would have captured)
11:41:36  <Celestar> Smoovious: I have a hunch
11:41:42  <Celestar> Smoovious: We're after it
11:42:48  <Celestar> it's a rating problem
11:42:57  <Bjarni> sounds like the time when planes didn't always clear airport blocks when leaving them
11:43:01  <Celestar> manually setting the station rating to 1 repairs it
11:43:33  <Bjarni> oh, you mean the vehicles can use it, but nothing shows up?
11:43:44  <Celestar> yeah
11:43:56  <Tron> Smoovious: known problem, happens when you unsucessfully bribe the local authorities
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11:45:33  <Smoovious> vehicles can drop off, but not pick up
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11:46:01  <Smoovious> Tron, k, but I haven't bribed anyone... and this involves more than one company...
11:46:59  <hylje> yes, sometimes a station fails to establish any service for pax/mail
11:47:52  <Smoovious> that would sound right for the other player's train station... he's feeding pass... for my station, it was goods
11:48:37  <Rubidium> all cargo (including passengers) are sent to the two stations with the highest rating, so it could be that your station's rating is not high enough
11:49:06  <Rubidium> (the two stations within some radius ofcourse)
11:49:23  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: maedhros * r8300 /trunk/src/ (7 files in 2 dirs):
11:49:23  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: -Codechange: Add a prototype for DrawPlayerIcon to players.h and include that
11:49:23  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: instead of using externs. Also move DrawPlayerIcon from graph_gui.cpp to
11:49:23  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: players.cpp.
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11:50:12  <Smoovious> Rubidium... if that was the case, then he should still at the very least show a passenger rating in the ratings view... as I should see a goods rating... his station only competed with one of mine... my goods station competed with nobody
11:50:39  <Darkvater> morning
11:50:45  <MeusH> hello Darkvater
11:51:17  <Rubidium> Smoovious: did some vehicles crash in the neighbourhood of that station?
11:51:25  <Smoovious> will ask
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11:51:57  <Darkvater> Celestar: I'm here
11:52:21  <Smoovious> --> zoney35: umm i think i ran a few offer ya
11:52:24  * Smoovious rolls his eyes.
11:52:39  <Smoovious> I think he's saying that he thinks he ran over a couple of my road vehicles near there
11:53:59  * Darkvater hmms at R8293
11:54:22  <Darkvater> Bjarni: why did you move the default to the bottom? DID I NOT TELL YOU SHOULDN'T DO THAT AND EXPLAIN WHY?
11:54:28  <Darkvater> wtf's wrong with people
11:55:45  <Rubidium> and it's zoney35's station that doesn't give passengers?
11:56:41  <Celestar> correct
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11:56:52  <Smoovious> Rubidium... zoney35's station is not giving up passengers... and my station not giving up goods... tho, from what Darkvater said a while ago, I think mine is only a symptom since it looks ok on his load of my savegame...
11:57:28  <Celestar> Smoovious: try to increase station spread and see what happens
11:57:49  <Smoovious> its already at 25... will try
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11:58:57  <Smoovious> welp... my factory is suddenly brimming with goods... no pqassengers on his station tho
11:59:23  <Celestar> Smoovious: two different problems
11:59:32  * Smoovious nods.
11:59:49  <Maedhros> would it be better to move the sign list stuff from graph_gui.cpp to signs.cpp or make a new file signlist_gui.cpp?
12:01:06  <Smoovious> brb
12:01:28  <Bjarni> <Darkvater>	Bjarni: why did you move the default to the bottom? DID I NOT TELL YOU SHOULDN'T DO THAT AND EXPLAIN WHY? <-- I added return, so it should be good enough. At least I don't get any warnings
12:02:08  <Bjarni> do you have a problem?
12:04:30  <Rubidium> Maedhros: I would opt for signs_gui.cpp
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12:05:37  <Maedhros> ok
12:09:28  <Tron> Bjarni: it was perfectly fine the way it was
12:10:31  <Bjarni> no, it was executing train code if it entered default and asserts were disabled
12:10:34  <Smoovious> ib
12:11:27  <Tron> Bjarni: and? everything is fouled up at this point anyway
12:11:34  <Bjarni> also I prefer default to be last. Now with the return, I really don't get what the problem should be
12:12:26  <peter1138> you should fix the bug that makes the default case happen
12:12:31  <peter1138> not make it so the default case continues fine
12:12:47  <Bjarni> that's why it's default: NOT_REACHED()
12:13:04  <Bjarni> default: NOT_REACHED(); return;
12:13:24  <Bjarni> I still fail to see what's wrong with this
12:13:57  <Bjarni> right now it's unreachable and it simply protects against bugs in future additions to the code
12:14:24  <Tron> it does not protect, it covers up
12:17:12  <Bjarni> right
12:17:24  <Bjarni> anyway what is the problem?
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12:24:06  <Darkvater> Bjarni: yes, I do. First of all you added a return to UNREACHABLE CODE, second of all it has worked perfectly before you changed it.
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12:24:35  <Darkvater> Bjarni: what I find particularly upsetting is that you ask for advice, you are given it, and you ignore it and go ahead anyways
12:24:41  <Darkvater> >> very very FUCKING upset
12:27:40  <Bjarni> you talked about getting a warning regarding w, so I added return (it should be there anyway), so I figured that's good enough. Clearly you don't think so, so you better tell me why the order is so important
12:31:46  <Darkvater> I talked to you about NOT changing the code
12:34:35  <Bjarni> default needed changing anyway because if asserts were disabled, it would execute train specific code (no break or return)
12:35:06  <Darkvater> do I have to tell you this the third time?
12:35:14  <Darkvater> if the code gets there, everything else is fucked up
12:35:25  <Darkvater> and even with asserts disabled you precious return will not execute
12:35:39  <Darkvater> msvc says NOT_RECHED() _assume(0)
12:35:50  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: maedhros * r8301 /trunk/ (7 files in 3 dirs): -Codechange: Move the code relating to the sign list window from graph_gui.cpp to a file of its own: signs_gui.cpp.
12:35:57  <Darkvater> that means it will not generate code for the default value but for one of the cases there
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12:37:23  <Darkvater> michi_cc: ping
12:44:25  <Bjarni> which would be really wrong. We need to ensure that the vehicle type in question is in fact that vehicle type or we will get problems
12:44:25  <Smoovious> Celestar... gonna quit the game and start up a new one, if you don't need me to keep it available anymore
12:44:25  <Celestar> Smoovious: I have the savegame, that's enough
12:44:25  <Smoovious> okee... lemme know how it goes...
12:44:25  <Celestar> I shall
12:44:25  <Darkvater> Bjarni: let me tell you this ONE FINAL TIME: if the code gets there with a wrong value the whole game is already fucked up. Now you are doing NOTHING else than to cover up (possibly) buggy code
12:44:25  <Wolf01> there is a reason why the buttons for the climate selection are still present in the intro gui?
12:44:25  <Bjarni> Wolf01: nobody removed them
12:44:25  <Bjarni> that why
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12:44:25  <Rubidium> a) they look nice, b) it's makes OpenTTD easier recognisable as TTD descendant
12:44:25  <Rubidium> -'s
12:44:25  <Wolf01> but they are totally useless
12:44:25  <Darkvater> so?
12:44:25  <Tefad> holy crap, is that a "send all trains to depot" button i see?!
12:44:25  <Bjarni> we can't see your monitor, so it's possible
12:44:25  <Bjarni> at least I made one ;)
12:44:25  <Wolf01> if you apply the transparency options to trunk i'll not remove those buttons :)
12:44:25  <Bjarni> blackmail?
12:44:25  * Darkvater doesn't remember Wolf01 has commit access ;)
12:44:32  <Tefad> having?
12:44:45  <Wolf01> i don't have it, and i'll never have it
12:44:58  <Bjarni> why?
12:45:04  <Bjarni> you don't plan to code anymore?
12:45:16  <Wolf01> that's why i'm asking for the transparency gui
12:45:39  <Wolf01> no, because you won't allow me
12:46:27  <Bjarni> Darkvater: what I don't get is: if I move default to the top, how will it fix stuff? Right now I can't see that it should give a different result compared to what it does now
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12:46:48  <Bjarni> and I consider it a nice style to put default last
12:47:03  <Darkvater> Bjarni: exactly your fix doesn't fix anything, just makes it worse
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12:48:01  <Bjarni> I don't get how it gets worse
12:48:52  <Rubidium> now it doesn't crash when it happens with asserts disabled (so no way to see whether it happened and no way to debug with a (mini)dump)
12:49:49  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r8302 /branches/masterserver_updater/src/ (8 files in 3 dirs): [MSU] -Codechange: remove some global variables
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12:51:47  <Bjarni> so do we want the return or not?
12:52:03  <Darkvater> revert the change and don't mess with something you don't understand
12:52:11  <Darkvater> or ask, and use the advice given
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12:53:49  <buberss> hi all, do you know anything bout SAC's INFRA graphics?? Is she still working on it??
12:53:55  *** bubersson [~sicair@ip-85-160-142-231.eurotel.cz] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
12:53:55  <Darkvater> yes
12:54:05  <Darkvater> http://web.telia.com/~u19311493/INFRA.html
12:54:29  <buberss> jj I saw this page, but I didnt know if it was new
12:54:31  <Bjarni> yesterday you talked about not setting w, hence the return, so I did follow the advice. Clearly there are something more to this, but you are not making yourself clear on what the issue is, only that you consider it to be very important
12:54:49  <Darkvater> I did not tell you about any return
12:54:53  <Darkvater> I told you to leave it alone
12:55:20  <Bjarni> you said it was because then w was not set
12:55:35  <Darkvater> I have enough of this discussion
12:55:39  <Darkvater> read back the log if you want
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12:58:41  <Tefad> how to remove sign left by waypoint?
13:00:03  <Tefad> also charts are interesting now
13:00:13  <Tefad> .. glitches galore ..
13:00:51  <Maedhros> yeah, i'm going to attempt to fix the operating profit graph today
13:00:58  <Maedhros> are there any others that are broken?
13:01:00  <Rubidium> Tefad: first one: wait, they should go away in a month or so
13:01:25  <Tefad> Rubidium: ok thanks.
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13:15:24  <roboboy> gnight
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13:16:35  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: bjarni * r8303 /trunk/src/vehicle_gui.cpp: -Codechange (r8293): default is moved to the front of the switch in ShowVehicleListWindowLocal()
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13:26:07  <Darkvater> Bjarni: that's better :)
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13:44:33  <peter1138> tum te tum
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13:48:18  <Neonox> http://bash.org/?244321
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14:00:22  <Wolf01> rofl
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14:09:20  <MeusH> hello glx
14:09:28  <Wolf01> uhm, i need a little help, i still get this assert: assert((uint)mode < lengthof(saveload_captions));
14:09:49  <Wolf01> i added a button to edit a scenario in the intro gui
14:10:04  <glx> so you added a SL_MODE
14:10:11  <Wolf01> yes
14:10:53  <Wolf01> SLD_EDIT_SCENARIO
14:10:55  <MeusH> Wolf01, nice one :)
14:11:03  <MeusH> the qdb
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14:11:53  <glx> Wolf01: you need to add a stringID in saveload_captions for this new mode
14:12:39  <Wolf01> 		STR_4012_EDIT_SCENARIO,
14:12:51  <Wolf01> in the static const StringID saveload_captions[] = {
14:13:54  <Wolf01> i already done all like the LOAD_HEIGHTMAP or LOAD_SCENARIO
14:14:01  <glx> show me the diff (will be easier to find what's wrong)
14:14:11  <Wolf01> ok, wait a minute
14:14:32  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: truelight * r8304 /trunk/ (config.lib configure source.list):
14:14:32  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: [WinCE] -Add: added configure detection for WinCE.
14:14:32  <CIA-1> OpenTTD:  Compiling doesn't work, neither does running, but it is a first step in developing an official WinCE port
14:15:34  <Wolf01> http://wolf01.game-host.org/OTTD_related/patches/edit_scenario_8287.patch
14:15:43  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: truelight * r8305 /trunk/src/ (aircraft_cmd.cpp airport.h):
14:15:43  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: -Codechange: defining 'static const' in a header is a bit weird.
14:15:43  <CIA-1> OpenTTD:  Above that, wince-gcc gave "unused variable" on every file which included airport.h... pretty annoying ;)
14:19:21  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: truelight * r8306 /trunk/src/ (saveload.cpp stdafx.h): [WinCE] -Fix: some functions don't exists in WinCE, so give an alternative where possible
14:19:47  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: truelight * r8307 /trunk/src/driver.cpp: [WinCE] -Fix: for now disable sound and music. That will be done later.
14:21:35  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: truelight * r8308 /trunk/src/fios.cpp: [WinCE] -Revert r5764: in case of WinCE, use the code for FileExists as it was in pre-r5764 for Win32 (tnx Darkvater)
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14:29:29  <MeusH> bye
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14:32:22  <Tefad> what would cause something to want to go to a red exit signal after presignal?
14:32:47  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: truelight * r8309 /trunk/src/ (video/win32_v.cpp win32.cpp):
14:32:47  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: [WinCE] -Fix: WinCE doesn't know resolution changing
14:32:47  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: -Fix: WinCE doesn't know GetKeyboardState
14:32:47  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: -Fix: made a replacement of GetCurrentDirectory, where CurDir is assumed to be the dir the executable is located (esoftinteractive.com)
14:32:47  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: -Fix: the GCC compiler is more happy if the WinMain is called that
14:32:48  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: -Fix: a really old typo (missing ')') ;)
14:32:50  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: -Fix: GdiFlush() isn't supported on WinCE
14:36:12  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: truelight * r8310 /trunk/src/video/win32_v.cpp: -Fix r8309: it is wise to put #endifs in the right place ;)
14:36:17  <Bjarni> Darkvater: ping
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14:44:29  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: truelight * r8311 /trunk/config.lib: [WinCE] -Fix r8304: GDI wasn't enabled by default on WinCE
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14:47:12  <glx> Wolf01: I found why it asserts :)
14:47:19  <Wolf01> oh, great
14:48:09  <glx> put SLD_EDIT_SCENARIO before SLD_NEW_GAME and it should be ok
14:48:43  <Tefad> ah right
14:48:58  <Tefad> it's been so long i forgot exit signals should be bidirectional
14:49:50  <Wolf01> in the functions.h enum, you mean?
14:50:27  <glx> yes
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14:53:44  <Maedhros> has anyone got a savegame which is making ridiculous amounts of profit that they could send me?
14:53:47  <Wolf01> ok, it works, many thakns glx
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15:03:42  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: maedhros * r8312 /trunk/src/graph_gui.cpp:
15:03:42  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: -Fix (r8038, sort of): Operating profit and the company value can be negative,
15:03:42  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: so don't put them in an unsigned variable before drawing them in the various
15:03:42  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: graphs. Although the code didn't change, this only seems to have broken since
15:03:42  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: we started compiling it as C++.
15:04:29  <Maedhros> now to try to fix the y scaling with negative values...
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15:15:01  <Brianetta> Is there any way to protect scenario roads from demolition?
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15:15:20  <Brianetta> The first thing some players do is demolsih them to make room for rail stations
15:16:07  <Tron> hm, probably another pseudo-player is necessary
15:16:31  <Brianetta> Perhaps a newgrf that makes blowing up roads coast 50,000 before inflation...
15:16:36  <Brianetta> or more
15:18:02  <Wolf01> Brianetta, i want a realistic game too, a game where cities don't grow if not some houses per year, cities that don't build roads and the terrain static, so is not possible to level a mountain to build an airport or a big junction
15:18:33  <Eddi|zuHause2> yeah, removing town stuff should be really expensive, and less dependent on ratings
15:18:43  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: truelight * r8313 /trunk/config.lib: [WinCE] -Fix: -lws2 wasn't included in libraries, so network couldn't be linked
15:18:50  <Brianetta> Eddi: Scenario roads aren't owned by towns
15:18:54  <Brianetta> They're owned by N/A
15:19:02  <Brianetta> and can always be destroyed
15:19:09  <Brianetta> even if the town was built on top of them
15:19:23  <Brianetta> Bridges, too
15:19:36  <Brianetta> Any bridges I build in the S/E are totally demolishable
15:19:44  <Eddi|zuHause2> hm, i once heard of a patch that made scenario roads owned by towns, what happened to that?
15:19:56  <Brianetta> Wasn't committed, probably
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15:31:25  <Eddi|zuHause2> i don't see the problem to loop through all towns whenever you place a road
15:35:19  <Brianetta> You might build a closer town later on
15:35:53  <Eddi|zuHause2> yes, building a town has to check every nearby tile
15:36:49  <Maedhros> mx = (mx + 7) & ~7;
15:37:00  <Maedhros> why?! what does it do, and why does it do it?!
15:37:43  <peter1138> it rounds to 7
15:37:46  <Eddi|zuHause2> smells like obscure rounding ;)
15:37:58  <peter1138> probably actually 8
15:38:07  <Maedhros> hmm, ok
15:38:38  <caladan> yes, to 8
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15:47:48  <Tron> Maedhros: round up to the next multiple of 8. use the ALIGN() macro
15:47:55  <Tron> where is the code from?
15:48:13  <Maedhros> Tron: it's in graph_gui.cpp
15:48:16  <Tron> got it
15:48:57  <peter1138> a lot of graph_gui is still "original", heh
15:48:57  <Tron> mx = ALIGN(mx, 8)
15:49:31  <Maedhros> yeah, i'm very tempted to see if i can just rewrite it
15:49:44  <Tron> hf&gl
15:50:15  <Maedhros> heh
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15:54:17  <Brianetta> peter1138: http://ppcis.org/standard/
15:54:23  <Brianetta> Note the new grf that's notin the current game
15:55:13  <peter1138> what, buffers?
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15:57:03  <peter1138> you've not updated to ukrs 3.04 either :D
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16:04:19  <Tron> hm, the build train window somehow looks different
16:07:59  <buberss> I have a question, are you guys working on increasing sprite limit? (because now I can't use Av8, LV4, newbridges, newships and some trainset in MiniIN)
16:08:10  <peter1138> nope
16:08:20  <peter1138> i don't see a need for more than what we've got
16:08:23  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: tron * r8314 /trunk/src/ (engine.cpp engine.h newgrf.cpp table/engines.h vehicle.cpp):
16:08:23  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: -Fix
16:08:23  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: -Codechange: Move the railtype from EngineInfo to RailVehicleInfo, because having a railtype for non-rail vehicles isn't that useful
16:08:54  <Tron> "<peter1138> 16 million sprites ought to be enough for everyone"
16:09:04  <Tefad> hehehe
16:09:29  <Wolf01> i have some GUI improvements which are ready to be added to trunk: http://wolf01.game-host.org/OTTD_related/patches/GUI_improvements.diff
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16:11:10  <peter1138> don't mix different changes
16:11:19  <peter1138> and i told you before, don't use uint32 for a SpriteID
16:12:06  <Bjarni> Darkvater: forget the ping. I figured it out on my own
16:12:07  <Wolf01> mmm that variable is useless
16:12:25  <Wolf01> i thought i removed it
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16:14:09  <Bjarni> <Tron>	hm, the build train window somehow looks different <-- explain. I'm currently merging it with the aircraft window (but I haven't committed that yet)
16:18:05  <buberss> ok, but what about "tried to load too many sprites (max. 16383)" - sorry if thats only problem MiniIN r8236
16:18:35  <buberss> (error message, which I get)
16:20:42  <Rubidium> the current trunk has 16 million sprites as maximum. However, since that is not going to be in 0.5.0, it is not going to be in MiniIN any time soon.
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16:23:33  <buberss> okok, thanks
16:23:53  <Digitalfox> Rubidium: We know that the MiniIN will be based in 0.5.. But to keep it to live longer, i ask you to at least insert the 16 milion sprite code, so itt will last a lot more time.. :)
16:24:00  <Tron> peter1138?
16:25:17  <buberss> I thought that MiniIN r8236 is synchronized with nightly r8236... It seems, that I'm wrong.
16:27:25  <Rubidium> Digitalfox: no. If I do that, people want feature X, Y and Z that are in trunk in MiniIN too. The decision has been made to stay with 0.5 and that will stay so, until somebody else takes over the development of MiniIN.
16:29:26  <Rubidium> you might think backporting that patch is easy. Merging that patch with NewHouses 'only' took an hour or so to do and test, when there was just 1 functions that was not converted. In MiniIN that will be a whole load more.
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16:30:44  <DirtYiCE> hi everybody
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16:31:24  <Digitalfox> Rubidium: I understand.. But try to understand that what i'm trying to say is to increase the life of MiniIN not by inserting new options or features, just letting more newgrf to be loaded.. I hope understand what my point of view is going :)
16:31:57  <Digitalfox> Rubidium: Since more and more newgrf already by it uses all sprites available in MiniIN
16:32:15  <peter1138> http://loliserv.org/imageboard/images/4311a94ac07c207ac7bb2196405517dd.jpg
16:32:44  <Maedhros> heh, nice :)
16:33:33  <Tron> hrhr
16:34:19  <caladan> Just like comment about gets in manual :D
16:36:20  <Bjarni> Tron: what about the build train window? What looks different?
16:37:05  <Tron> dunno, somehow it looks different
16:37:12  <peter1138> there's more space at the bottom than there used to be
16:39:23  <Rubidium> Digitalfox: it is too much effort for little gain; people will only think that the development of MiniIN is not stopped as patches to keep it alive are being backported.
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16:40:49  <peter1138> miniin is unsupported by the devs. why should we extend its life?
16:41:07  <Rubidium> and another problem is that there were several, quite intrusive, patches done before the sprite limit increase patch has hit trunk. So it is not feasible to backport it.
16:43:10  <Ailure> http://194.47.44.229/openTTD/Granley%20Transport,%2013th%20Apr%201940.png
16:43:21  <Ailure> I love it when there's a area full of railways going here and there :)
16:45:50  <Wolf01> peter1138, better now? http://wolf01.game-host.org/OTTD_related/patches/GUI_improvements.diff
16:46:31  <Wolf01> mmmm i forget one instance of "img"
16:49:39  <Wolf01> *one->some
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17:09:37  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: truelight * r8315 /trunk/src/gfxinit.cpp: -Fix: use ShowInfo over fprintf(stderr, as Windows doesn't always have a stderr visible/available
17:29:46  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r8316 /trunk/src/ (4 files in 2 dirs): -Codechange: move the GRF ID and MD5 checksum from GRFConfig to GRFIdentifier so it can be reused.
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17:34:59  <Brianetta> 1938, two bankuptcies.  There are two slots available on the Standard Server.
17:39:05  <izhirahider> what version does it use?
17:41:02  <peter1138> RC4
17:41:24  <Brianetta> http://ppcis.org/standard/
17:42:13  <peter1138> not a lot of industry
17:42:25  <Brianetta> no
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18:03:37  <illu> hi
18:06:43  <Digitalfox> hi!
18:07:40  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: maedhros * r8317 /trunk/src/graph_gui.cpp: -Codechange: Remove GraphDrawer::bg_line_color since it was the same everywhere it was set.
18:07:54  <michi_cc> Darkvater: yes? sorry, was out
18:07:59  <Maedhros> step one of about 40,000 to making this file legible ;)
18:07:59  <Darkvater> ah yes
18:08:19  <Darkvater> michi_cc: there's quite a few #ifdef WIN32 code, where there is no || WIN64 next to it
18:08:29  <michi_cc> win64 defines win32 as well
18:08:35  <Darkvater> michi_cc: for example the opendir/readdir/closedir code; does tha twork out of the box for win64?
18:09:02  <Darkvater> michi_cc: so actually all the || WIN64 are obsolete?
18:09:58  <michi_cc> Darkvater: if coupled with a WIN32, currently yes. but of course there's no guarantee that it's always going to be this way
18:10:09  <Darkvater> 'coupled with win32'?
18:10:24  <Darkvater> compiled on win32 you mean?
18:10:46  <Darkvater> michi_cc: can you undef WIN32 for me and make a patch that compiles and works?
18:11:02  <michi_cc> I meant WIN32 || WIN64, if the specific part is only suppossed to be for win64, of course not
18:11:44  <Darkvater> yeah, that was what I was talking about
18:11:59  <Darkvater> eg I see only #ifdef WIN32 for the posix opendir/readdir/closedir functions
18:12:19  <Darkvater> but you are saying the WIN64 compiler also does a /D "WIN32" somewhere so it works/
18:13:08  <michi_cc> Darkvater: yes, that's the way it is right now. Microsoft might change that someday, but I think ww don't need to worry before that
18:13:43  <Darkvater> kk, so WIN32||WIN64 can be WIN32 only
18:25:43  <michi_cc> Darkvater: I've checked right now, and I can say that WIN64 is indeed completely superfluous right now, as it is nowhere defined. I was confused, the MS defines are _WIN32 and _WIN64 (note the underscore). The WIN32 one is our own
18:26:36  <Darkvater> michi_cc: yeah WIN32 is ours
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18:27:34  <michi_cc> the VS project files define it for both targets
18:27:37  <Darkvater> michi_cc: so I will remove those and only leave the win64's which are alone and are prefixed
18:28:30  <michi_cc> Darkvater: yes, the underscore ones are the important ones
18:29:03  <Darkvater> thanks :)
18:29:05  <Darkvater> gn all
18:29:07  <Maedhros> gah! all the colours in DrawGraph have been given the same value, it's just that they look different as some are in hex and some are decimal
18:29:12  <Maedhros> night Darkvater
18:29:20  <Darkvater> Maedhros: good luck with the graph :)
18:29:35  <Maedhros> hehe, thanks :)
18:29:38  <Darkvater> http://darkvater.homeip.net/~tfarago/openttd/economy_graph_v2.diff
18:29:41  <Darkvater> this might help
18:30:04  <Darkvater> no idea what I did there anymore though, I think I int64'd income and expenses in PlayerEconomyEntry
18:30:31  <Maedhros> ok, thanks
18:30:36  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: miham * r8318 /trunk/src/lang/ (5 files in 2 dirs):
18:30:36  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: -Update: WebTranslator2 update to 2007-01-21 19:29:35
18:30:36  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: brazilian_portuguese - 10 changed by fukumori (10)
18:30:36  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: polish - 5 fixed by meush (5)
18:30:36  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: simplified_chinese - 9 fixed, 191 changed by Fishingsnow (200)
18:30:38  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: slovak - 1 fixed by lengyel (1)
18:30:38  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: slovenian - 1 changed by ThePianoGuy (1)
18:30:54  <Darkvater> hmm it includes some style-changes as well..
18:30:55  <Darkvater> bleh
18:30:59  <Darkvater> really wip ;p
18:31:16  <Darkvater> I had plans to make the graph dynamic (eg not only start from 0, but got distracted)
18:31:30  <Darkvater> anyways, off
18:31:35  <MiHaMiX> Darkvater: bye
18:32:29  <Darkvater> oh
18:32:32  <Darkvater> michi_cc: one more question
18:32:40  <michi_cc> yeah?
18:32:41  <Darkvater> michi_cc: AskExitGame
18:32:46  <Darkvater> #if defined(_WIN32) SetDParam(0, STR_0133_WINDOWS);
18:32:47  <Darkvater> ...
18:32:50  <Darkvater> #else
18:32:50  <Darkvater> 		SetDParam(0, STR_0134_UNIX);
18:32:51  <Darkvater> #endif
18:32:57  <Darkvater> does it say quit to unix?
18:33:00  <Darkvater> for you
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18:33:46  <michi_cc> Darkvater: no, _WIN32 is always defined
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18:34:20  <Darkvater> also on win64?
18:34:32  <imaginner> hi everyone
18:35:21  <michi_cc> Darkvater: yes, on every current windows platform. probably even windows ce
18:35:37  <Darkvater> ah ok
18:35:38  <Darkvater> thx
18:35:40  <Darkvater> < really gone
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18:42:23  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: maedhros * r8319 /trunk/src/graph_gui.cpp: -Codechange: Remove the remaining colours from GraphDrawer as they're also the same everywhere.
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18:46:22  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: tron * r8320 /trunk/src/train_cmd.cpp:
18:46:22  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: -Fix
18:46:22  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: Simplify TrainPowerChanged() somewhat by eleminating code duplication
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18:59:02  <Tuzlo> ever see railroad tracks get destroyed on their own?
18:59:16  <Tuzlo> I have a cpl areas on a map that they keep disappearing on
18:59:45  <Maedhros> have you got disasters on? coal mine subsidance and UFOs will destroy railway tracks
19:00:11  <Smoovious> hey, how is autopausing supposed to work? I can't seem to get it to pause the game
19:00:39  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: tron * r8321 /trunk/src/ (engine.h table/engines.h):
19:00:39  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: -Fix
19:00:39  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: Reduce the size of EngineInfo (from 28 to 24 bytes) by moving one of its attributes
19:01:25  <Tuzlo> aye they weere, why the asme spot on the rail lines though?
19:04:52  <Maedhros> i don't know... they're probably not using particularly random values
19:19:30  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: maedhros * r8322 /trunk/src/graph_gui.cpp: -Codechange: Rename unk61A and unk61C to something a little more descriptive.
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19:27:56  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: miham * r8323 /trunk/src/lang/unfinished/simplified_chinese.txt: [Translations] -Fix: removed untranslated strings from chinese language, fixed a wrong plural param
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19:31:42  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: miham * r8324 /trunk/src/lang/ (simplified_chinese.txt unfinished/simplified_chinese.txt): [Translations] -Change: Declared simplified_chinese as officially available language (number of missing strings is far less than 100)
19:32:42  <MiHaMiX> ok, finished with the daily language administration
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19:38:37  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r8325 /branches/masterserver_updater/src/ (6 files in 3 dirs): [MSU] -Add: support for requesting and receiving NewGRF names.
19:40:45  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: truelight * r8326 /trunk/ (4 files in 2 dirs):
19:40:45  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: -Fix r8304: forgot to update projects/generate to keep in mind the new WINCE tag in sources.list
19:40:45  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: -Fix: MSVC doesn't order files itself, so put win32.cpp in the right place ourself
19:40:45  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: -Update: update the MSVC projects files for r8324 (MiHaMiX)
19:42:55  <Rubidium> Brianetta: have you experienced any desyncs with 0.5.0-RC4?
19:43:03  <Brianetta> Rubidium: Yes
19:43:09  <Brianetta> but they have not been persistent
19:45:26  <Rubidium> so it is at least a lot better, right?
19:45:40  <Brianetta> yes
19:45:42  *** Wolf01|AWAY is now known as Wolf01
19:46:47  <Rubidium> did desyncs happen pretty soon after joining or when they were connected for a (long) time?
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20:07:58  <caladan> No problems with desync for me
20:08:04  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: bjarni * r8327 /trunk/src/vehicle.h: -Codechange: though overloading, IsPlayerBuildableVehicleType() now works with the type given as a byte as well as a vehicle pointer
20:13:07  <imaginner> What is the OTTD roadmap for music?
20:13:42  <hylje> dunno. i suppose it would be to create a documented api for the built-in music player
20:13:56  <hylje> and have people write plugins for it to winamp et cetera
20:14:16  <imaginner> would we maybe have some OTTD-specific music?
20:14:40  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: maedhros * r8328 /trunk/src/graph_gui.cpp: -Codechange: Remove some magic numbers in the graph drawing code.
20:14:41  <imaginner> like, mp3 versions of original midis?
20:14:47  <hylje> copyrighted work
20:14:53  <imaginner> gah
20:14:55  <hylje> we'd need some people recreating em
20:15:15  <imaginner> so it's not okay to recreate them?
20:15:36  <DaleStan> And we've already got the original MIDIs. What benefit does MP3 provide over MIDI?
20:15:54  <imaginner> am I violating copyright by making mp3s from those midis and publishing them?
20:16:08  <hylje> yes
20:16:21  <DaleStan> ... Well, besides the timidity-is-a -CPU-hog thing.
20:16:23  <hylje> but its somewhat impropable that you'd get RIAA'd up
20:16:57  <imaginner> so should I publish these on tt-forums or should I remove them at once?
20:17:51  <imaginner> DaleStan: If you do the mix the right way, you can get much much better quality
20:18:39  <Smoovious> CPU-hog?
20:18:49  <hylje> publish them on a vague webhost in a even vaguer country
20:18:51  <caladan> eats up cpu
20:19:12  <Smoovious> midis dump most of the music-playing to the sound card... all a midi contains is instructions on what notes to play, how to play them, and which instrument...
20:19:29  <caladan> not if there's no normal midi support
20:19:31  <Smoovious> with an mp3, you're constantly decoding and pushing the data to the sound card
20:19:37  <caladan> many modern soundcards dont have synthesiers
20:19:45  <imaginner> okay
20:19:55  <DaleStan> So says Brianetta. I don't have any experience with timidity.
20:19:59  <caladan> and CPU must generate sound, by mixing all things
20:19:59  <Smoovious> I would argue that if a modern sound card isn't capable of midi, then it isn't a modern sound card
20:20:22  <caladan> My PC (AMD64-3200, 1024MB RAM) is loaded at 10% by timidity
20:20:39  <Smoovious> 10%? ouch... that's horrible
20:20:54  <imaginner> I would rather say that older soundcards were more midi-capable than new ones
20:20:59  <caladan> true
20:21:03  <imaginner> depends all on the soundcard
20:21:09  <caladan> people dont like midi now, cause it has a low sound wuality
20:21:13  <caladan> quality*
20:21:16  <Smoovious> well, don't buy cheap...
20:21:18  <Smoovious> jeez...
20:21:21  <caladan> lol, i;ve got integrated
20:21:26  <imaginner> again, depends on the soundcard
20:21:38  <Smoovious> gonna spend that kind of money on a good motherboard, shell out the extra  for a good card
20:21:57  <Smoovious> so you got integrated... go into the cmos, disable the thing, and plug in your own
20:22:10  <caladan> but i need midi only for ottd :D
20:22:25  <caladan> it has gameport
20:22:28  <caladan> it gets midi messages
20:22:29  <Smoovious> oh, I see what you're saying... ottd isn't worth it
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20:22:38  <DaleStan> Oh, how I wish I could pull that trick for my integrated vid-card.
20:22:46  <caladan> i can play it wioth timidity as well
20:22:47  <imaginner> the difference between integrated and top-shelf is hard to distinguish for untrained ears (when it comes to waves)
20:22:50  * Smoovious grins at DaleStan
20:23:17  <caladan> i was looking for hardware midi yesterday
20:23:25  <imaginner> timidity is what plays MIDI for OTTD, right?
20:23:27  <caladan> didnt find it :/
20:23:27  <DaleStan> But some bright spark decided that an AGP port was unnecessary (computer was purchased in June 2002)
20:23:40  <Smoovious> the midi music sounds so good if you have an AWE card with a good GS instrument set loaded
20:23:42  <caladan> imaginner: yes
20:23:47  <imaginner> caladan: hardware MIDI meaning what?
20:24:03  <caladan> it works like with video card
20:24:17  <hylje> imaginner: hardware-accelerated sound processing
20:24:17  <caladan> if midi is in software, then the CPU makes the whole thing
20:24:28  <hylje> much like software rendering is slooooooooooooooooooow
20:24:28  <imaginner> ah, see
20:24:30  <caladan> if its hardware, you just send messages like: play note, turn volume up
20:24:36  <Brianetta> 20:19 <Smoovious> I would argue that if a modern sound card isn't capable of midi, then it isn't a modern sound card
20:24:47  <Smoovious> might as well be playing mod, 669, s3m, xm, it, etc files then
20:24:50  <Brianetta> Smoovious: Your argument is, then, that you can't buy a sound card for under £100
20:24:58  <Bjarni> I'm not sure about hardware midi. Using software midi ensures that it sounds somewhat similar on all computers. The hardware on the other hand will for sure not sound identically
20:25:08  <Brianetta> because practically no new sound cards under that mark have any MIDI hardware
20:25:10  <imaginner> go for this: find a card with MIDI OUT port
20:25:18  <imaginner> and buy a MIDI module
20:25:22  <imaginner> connect
20:25:27  <caladan> Brianetta: that's what i just said, noone need midi anymore..
20:25:27  <imaginner> and voila
20:25:40  <caladan> imaginner: you must not know what you are talkin about
20:25:45  <Brianetta> Pro musicians need it, but they'll pay for that gear
20:25:46  <Smoovious> Brianetta... no, it isn't... I didn't speak of price... and I don't know what the conversion is between us, but - will get you a good card... not great, but certainly capable of midi
20:25:50  <caladan> it would mean buing synthesier :D
20:25:59  <Brianetta> Smoovious: Really?  What brand?
20:26:11  <caladan> i can buy some sb32 for like 10$, but is it worth?
20:26:21  <caladan> i got 5.1 in my integrated
20:26:36  <Smoovious> caladan... sb32awe? yes it is... I still use mine
20:26:45  <imaginner> caladan: that's what I was talking about :) not very sensible, but works
20:26:59  <imaginner> much too expensive for OTTD-use
20:27:03  <Smoovious> Brianetta... not sure what brand... I haven't needed to buy one...
20:27:19  <Brianetta> Smoovious: I'll accept your claim when I see any evidence
20:27:26  <Smoovious> imaginner... so, you're saying OTTD isn't worth it? :)
20:27:52  <imaginner> Smoovious: didn't say that :P
20:27:57  <Smoovious> :D
20:28:07  <caladan> Come on! I dont crunch that much data i cant use 10% of my cpu for MIDI
20:28:13  <caladan> why to buy a new card?
20:28:22  <imaginner> hold on, 10%?
20:29:05  <imaginner> AMD64-3200?
20:29:09  <caladan> yes
20:29:13  <caladan> i can check it now
20:29:14  <imaginner> wow
20:29:56  <imaginner> how do you check it?
20:29:59  <caladan> top
20:30:01  <caladan> 15%
20:30:23  <Smoovious> 15%... yeah, that's insane
20:30:56  <Brianetta> http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?p=544097#544097 <-- interesting breakdowns fix
20:31:22  <Wolf01> yeah, i found a lost tunnel with a family of homeless, should i demolish it or leave it there?
20:31:47  <imaginner> what the
20:31:56  <imaginner> ?
20:32:13  <Wolf01> artifacts of an old railway
20:32:17  <caladan> dont take their home away!
20:33:04  <imaginner> you should get them a new home and get rid o the tunnel
20:33:12  <Wolf01> is about 50 tiles from the nearest town
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20:34:11  <imaginner> hey caladan, how did you measure that cpu use?
20:34:20  <Wolf01> potatoes
20:34:28  <Wolf01> ;)
20:34:33  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: maedhros * r8329 /trunk/src/graph_gui.cpp: -Codechange: Remove the the horribly abused j and k variables completely, and make i local to each loop it's used in.
20:34:44  <caladan> using top
20:34:49  <caladan> that's why i said top :D
20:35:41  *** robobed is now known as roboboy
20:35:43  <caladan> it's a linux tool
20:36:10  *** michi_cc is now known as michi_cc-away
20:36:41  <imaginner> ah, right :)
20:36:54  <imaginner> forgot, too much windows for me
20:39:11  <imaginner> I wonder though, why I don't have such high percentage
20:39:12  <caladan> it was little less suing time
20:39:23  <caladan> 120s real vs 12 user
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20:54:34  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: maedhros * r8330 /trunk/src/graph_gui.cpp: -Codechange: Remove num_x and num_dataset from DrawGraph.
20:55:33  * Brianetta sees imaginner
20:55:42  <Brianetta> imaginner: http://tcl.tk/
20:57:58  <Tron> Maedhros: it's really not performance critical, but in general local variables make a compiler's life much easier (keyword: aliasing)
20:58:26  <Tron> it's good somebody takes care of the graph code, it really needs some lovin'
21:00:31  <Smoovious> hey... isn't there a limit of adjoining road-vehicle stations, of 8? (bus and/or truck)
21:00:46  <Tron> 16
21:00:59  <Smoovious> oooo... it got increased. :D nice
21:01:04  <Smoovious> gonna be all over that. :D
21:01:07  <Bjarni> on top of that, it also makes the code more developer friendly when you can see the whole scope of the life of the variables
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21:05:33  *** DJGummikuh [~joey@clx-ac2-59-3.westend.com] has joined #openttd
21:05:43  <DJGummikuh> hey there quick question how can I unset a variable inside the dedicated server console?
21:05:49  <DJGummikuh> I accidentially set a pw and want to unset it
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21:08:20  <DJGummikuh> nobody here? :(
21:10:58  <buberss> and I also have small quick question, is there any dedicated server for win32?? (like making it from gui trunks or whatever)
21:12:10  <DJGummikuh> buberss: I believe if you run openttd with the -D flag it's dedicated no matter if its windows or linux
21:12:13  <DJGummikuh> just run it in a command shell
21:14:04  <Brianetta> Turned off "improved" laoding algorithm on my server
21:14:15  <Brianetta> Many players build stations with more than two platforms
21:14:29  <Brianetta> and extra platforms garner no benefit witht hat setting on
21:16:02  <Smoovious> they could try making longer trains instead of more of them. :)
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21:22:30  <buberss> DJGummikuh: thanks ... so now I wonder why there are builded Dedicated servers for linux and macos??
21:23:17  <Rubidium> because there you've got the option for non-GUI
21:23:28  <Rubidium> at least in linux
21:23:54  <Rubidium> a non-GUI environment I meant by that
21:24:09  <buberss> so they are smaller (in KB)??
21:24:18  <Maedhros> hmm, i think that's enough graph code cleaning for tonight :)
21:24:37  <buberss> or whats the advantage?
21:24:38  <Rubidium> not really
21:24:49  <setrodox> buberss, when you don't have a graphical environment on linux you can't start a normal build of ottd at all
21:24:51  <Rubidium> you do not have to install libsdl and such on your server system
21:25:12  <ln-> startkeylogger
21:25:17  <setrodox> well, yeah, when you would install sdl then it would work, but who does that on a non graphical system? ^^
21:25:25  <buberss> oh, I see... didnt realised shell linux
21:32:30  <caladan> LOL
21:32:34  <caladan> not shell linux
21:32:39  <caladan> it's pure linux :D
21:32:48  <caladan> Xorg is just a server :D
21:35:06  <Kosma> in fact, pure linux is nothing but a kernel
21:36:17  <caladan> Kosma: yes, your right :D
21:41:11  <Maedhros> night
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21:42:08  <buberss> ok :) I don't really see through linux stuff... (but I know about kernel and things like KDE...)
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21:43:32  <buberss> ) and it desyncted
21:43:42  <buberss> sry - wrong post
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21:46:23  <caladan> buberss: you see, we usually *dont* have those servers at home, so we use ssh to log onto them, wherever they are
21:46:34  <caladan> no graphics, it would only make problems
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22:20:59  <[gen2]niki> ive got a question
22:21:04  *** Tino|Home [~Tino@i5387CB75.versanet.de] has joined #openttd
22:21:07  <[gen2]niki> in my settings, ending date is 2100
22:21:14  <[gen2]niki> why doesnt the game restart after that time
22:21:16  <Brianetta> Well, that's my server's webcam out in the open and GPL'd
22:21:37  *** Tron [~tron@p54A3D732.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd
22:21:38  <Brianetta> [gen2]niki: That time is simlpy when the game shows the high ranks table to the players
22:21:45  <[gen2]niki> ah
22:21:57  <[gen2]niki> one more thing
22:22:04  <Brianetta> You need restart_game_date =
22:22:09  <[gen2]niki> k
22:22:11  <Brianetta> or
22:22:11  <[gen2]niki> one more thing:
22:22:15  <Brianetta> restart_game_year =
22:22:19  <[gen2]niki> my height level is 1
22:22:20  <Brianetta> depenfding on your revision
22:22:22  <[gen2]niki> thats normal
22:22:31  * Brianetta nods
22:22:31  <[gen2]niki> but the map is really high and hilly
22:22:34  <Bjarni> guys, I got a question for you
22:23:03  <Brianetta> [gen2]niki: Not sure about the height thing.  I tend to prototype map settings in my PC first.
22:23:09  <Brianetta> Bjarni: Shoot
22:23:17  <[gen2]niki> its on my rootserver
22:23:21  <[gen2]niki> cant really prototype
22:23:30  <caladan> no problem
22:23:32  <Brianetta> You can. You can copy the parameters to your config file
22:23:35  <caladan> make on your pC and upload
22:23:36  <Brianetta> I do that
22:23:40  <Bjarni> as a little sideeffect on some work I just did, I made the build vehicle window resizable in horizontal direction. Do you think I should keep it like that or work on forcing it to stay resizable in one direction only?
22:24:24  <Brianetta> Bjarni: Horizontal is optional.  For consistency, I'd say drop it.
22:24:47  <Brianetta> It's not like the depot window, where you can't see the whole train.
22:24:50  <Bjarni> consistency with what?
22:24:56  <Brianetta> Bjarni: Older releases
22:25:05  <Brianetta> and other windows
22:25:23  <Bjarni> ok
22:25:28  <Brianetta> If only scrolling on one direction is rare, keep it
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22:28:54  <Smoovious> if there's no compelling reason not to resize in the horizontal, why prevent it?
22:29:06  <Eddi|zuHause2> <[gen2]niki> cant really prototype <- that's the cool thing about the new generator, if you input the same random seed, you get _exactly_ the same map, including towns and industries, so you can generate a map on your local computer, and then regenerate it on the server, if you like it
22:29:19  <[gen2]niki> ah
22:29:20  <[gen2]niki> :o
22:29:31  <[gen2]niki> can someone help me debugging my config file btw
22:29:34  <[gen2]niki> x-x
22:29:45  <[gen2]niki> i used my old one for 0.5 and it got messed up
22:29:49  <Brianetta> debugging?
22:29:51  <[gen2]niki> values set two times
22:29:56  <[gen2]niki> and things like that
22:30:12  <[gen2]niki> btw why does the game overwrite the file if you edit the .cfg file while its running?
22:30:13  <Brianetta> Just load it into the game locally, edit the settings and quit.
22:30:26  <Bjarni> <Smoovious>	if there's no compelling reason not to resize in the horizontal, why prevent it? <-- I wondered about that as well, hence the reason I asked ;)
22:30:29  <Brianetta> It overwrites it even if you don't
22:30:38  <Brianetta> I do believe you can specify -x to prevent this
22:31:07  <Smoovious> figure, always leave room for other sets... just cuz the current ones have enough space, maybe later sets will be longer
22:31:25  <Smoovious> (but then, I'd also like to set city/station/vehicle names longer too :) )
22:31:32  <Bjarni> articulated trains... good point
22:31:37  <[gen2]niki> hmm
22:31:40  <Bjarni> they can be up to 8 units long... or something
22:31:41  <[gen2]niki> when will rc5 be out?
22:31:44  <Bjarni> in the code
22:31:51  <Bjarni> [gen2]niki: when it's done
22:31:56  <Smoovious> (it seems to limit the length of the name based on the rendered length instead of # of characters)
22:32:08  <Bjarni> that as well
22:32:23  <[gen2]niki> well
22:32:24  <[gen2]niki> gnight ;p
22:32:28  <DJGummikuh> hey what's the variable for disabling breakdowns in openttd.cfg?
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22:33:02  <Bjarni> we are not going to release anything soon, so I might as well commit the resizable version and see if people like it
22:33:20  <Bjarni> I can always add protection against this later if it turns out to be an issue
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22:34:32  <DJGummikuh> hey anyone? what do I have to set so that vehicles won't break down?
22:34:45  <Smoovious> difficulty settings...
22:35:28  <Wolf01> diff_custom = 0,0,0,1,500,2,0,0,0,0,3,0,2,1,1,1,0,0
22:35:40  <Wolf01> one of these is the breakdowns
22:35:50  <Brianetta> The tenth one
22:35:56  <Brianetta> it can be 0, 1 or 2
22:36:02  <DJGummikuh> Brianetta: cool thanx
22:36:08  <Brianetta> which are none, reduced and normal, respectively
22:36:46  <Brianetta> I ste my diff_custom by doing it on the game on my PC, then copying the line it saves from openttd.cfg
22:37:46  <Smoovious> DJGummikuh... the 10th number in that line is breakdowns
22:37:52  <Smoovious> Brianetta beat me to it
22:39:05  <Brianetta> I know because I posted this exact info onto the forum about two days ago
22:39:20  <Brianetta> I couldn't tell you, off hand, what any of the others are (:
22:40:09  <Brianetta> Interestingly, there's no way to modify any of these settings from the console during the game
22:40:16  <Eddi|zuHause2> it's easy, they are in the same order as on the difficulty setting window
22:40:34  <Brianetta> I think it'd be nice if the devs provided patch settings that provided additional access to these variables
22:40:53  <Brianetta> Eddi: Easy if you have a GUI in front ofyou
22:40:57  <Eddi|zuHause2> they should just be split into several variables
22:41:06  <Brianetta> They should
22:41:11  <Brianetta> Ideally, they should be like the other patches
22:41:19  <Brianetta> Patch is such a silly name for "option"
22:41:34  <Brianetta> I hope that changes by 1,0
22:41:51  <Eddi|zuHause2> the "patches" should be split into difficulty and options, and then the normal difficuties added as variables
22:41:56  <Smoovious> <Brianetta> I couldn't tell you, off hand, what any of the others are (: <-- far as I can tell, they go in the same order as the difficulty level menu
22:42:08  <Smoovious> Eddi|zuHause2 beat me to that one. >sighs<
22:42:08  <Brianetta> Smoovious: Beaten by Eddi
22:42:11  <Brianetta> Sae response
22:42:16  <Brianetta> Dedicated server has no menu
22:42:31  <Eddi|zuHause2> you are too slow for this world, Smoovious :o
22:42:43  <Smoovious> hey, I'm busy playing OTTD...
22:42:45  <Smoovious> :P
22:43:05  <Brianetta> I'm busy making helpful and insightful posts to te forum
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22:50:48  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: bjarni * r8331 /trunk/src/ (6 files):
22:50:48  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: -Feature: the train and aircraft build windows are now resizable in horizontal direction as well
22:50:48  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: -Codechange: merged train and aircraft build window code
22:51:06  <Bjarni> ok, now you can test the resizable build windows
22:51:23  <Bjarni> hopefully everything else regarding those windows remain the same
22:52:12  <Bjarni> Smoovious: you look like you would like to try this :)
22:53:30  * Bjarni goes back to an issue he detected earlier today
22:53:47  <Bjarni> wtf DrawAircraftImage() is doing in build_vehicle_gui.cpp
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22:57:59  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: bjarni * r8332 /trunk/src/ (aircraft.h aircraft_gui.cpp build_vehicle_gui.cpp): -Codechange: moved DrawAircraftImage() and CcBuildAircraft() from build_vehicle_gui.cpp to aircraft_gui.cpp
22:59:45  <Digitalfox> Bjarni: Thank you very mutch the resize windows feature is great :) I haven't tested yet because i'll have to wait for nightly, but thanks.. :)
22:59:58  *** tokai [~tokai@p54B82EC2.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
23:01:12  <Bjarni> you really wanted the resizable build window?
23:01:22  <Bjarni> I mean, was it really something that you missed?
23:02:05  <Digitalfox> yeah because of text passing the margins of windows with newgrf
23:03:22  <Wolf01> what i can't understand is why i don't get appreciment (if not from 2 or 3 people) for my patches... and there are more than 2 or 3 people which play with them :|... however good work Bjarni, i really missed this feature
23:03:48  * Smoovious looks.
23:04:02  <Bjarni> another sideeffect of this is commit is that resizing the window later (the start size, that is), is just a matter of changing one number in one line
23:04:56  <Bjarni> Wolf01: I know the feeling. You do a great deal of work and then it's like nobody cares
23:04:58  <Smoovious> Bjarni... will have to try it later... don't wanna shut down the game I'm hosting right now. :)
23:05:11  <Bjarni> heh
23:05:13  <Bjarni> good point
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23:13:52  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: bjarni * r8333 /trunk/src/ (build_vehicle_gui.cpp window.h):
23:13:52  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: -Codechange: when invalidating a build window list, set a flag instead of rebuilding the list and then rebuild it the next time it's redrawn
23:13:52  <CIA-1> OpenTTD:  This should save CPU time in the (maybe unlikely) event that the list is invalidated more than once between two redraws
23:17:31  <Wolf01> 'night all
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23:24:30  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: bjarni * r8334 /trunk/src/build_vehicle_gui.cpp: -Fix (r8331): build window buttons now both resize as intended
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23:53:58  <Tuzlo> if youn wanna ship good fromma a factory they factory requires steel, livestock and grain, do they all have to be delivered on the same train to make the goods?
23:54:21  <glx> no
23:55:00  <Tuzlo> guess it helps iof I have cars converted to goods.... DOH
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