Times are UTC Toggle Colours
00:00:06 <Sacro> but i have west ^ and north \/ 00:00:09 <Rubidium> no, one the ceiling ofcourse, much easier to read it from your bed that way :) 00:00:15 <Rubidium> s/one/on/ 00:00:30 <Eddi|zuHause2> no, if you have it on a desk, you usually have ^ up, \/ down 00:00:52 *** hrada [ty@b07-305a.kn.vutbr.cz] has joined #openttd 00:01:10 <Eddi|zuHause2> · east, x west 00:01:16 <Sacro> :o 00:01:36 <Eddi|zuHause2> (that is the official notation) 00:02:02 <Eddi|zuHause2> x if the arrow is going away from you 00:02:10 <Eddi|zuHause2> · if it is coming towards you 00:02:16 <Digitalfox> Could you people help with this topic.. http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?t=30349 00:02:19 <Sacro> i know :p 00:02:22 <Digitalfox> Thanks :) 00:02:23 <Sacro> im noy dupid 00:02:27 <Sacro> though i cant type 00:02:42 <Eddi|zuHause2> i will not accept that statement unproven... 00:02:44 <Digitalfox> It's about the "Official release" and "Full Release" 00:08:24 *** ufoun [ty@b07-305a.kn.vutbr.cz] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 00:19:27 *** Neonox [~Neonox@offb-590eaea1.pool.einsundeins.de] has quit [Quit: bin wech....] 00:25:13 *** Twofish [~Twofish@195.204.107.4] has joined #openttd 00:31:05 <KeeperOfTheSoul> interesting, is there a particular problem with two stations having the same name? 00:31:18 *** |2rB [~Twofish@195.204.107.4] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 00:33:37 <Rubidium> KeeperOfTheSoul: it would show up multiple times in the station list 00:33:45 <Rubidium> but technically it shouldn't matter 00:34:07 <KeeperOfTheSoul> that's what I thought, since I found a way to get duplicate names 00:34:43 <Rubidium> those aren't duplicate to OpenTTD though :) 00:34:47 <KeeperOfTheSoul> heh 00:34:59 <KeeperOfTheSoul> they look the same to the user :) 00:35:12 <Rubidium> assuming you 'renamed' the station in-game ofcourse 00:45:27 *** BJH2 [~chatzilla@e176122169.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.61 [Mozilla rv:1.7.12/20050915]] 00:56:24 *** nairan [~Maui_key@p5498CB88.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 00:57:13 *** nairan [~Maui_key@p5498CB88.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 01:05:03 *** GoneWack1 [~gonewacko@h157014.upc-h.chello.nl] has joined #openttd 01:05:04 *** GoneWacko [~gonewacko@h157014.upc-h.chello.nl] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:05:08 *** GoneWack1 is now known as GoneWacko 01:18:02 *** Digitalfox [~chatzilla@bl8-41-193.dsl.telepac.pt] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 01:21:42 *** hrada [ty@b07-305a.kn.vutbr.cz] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 01:22:06 *** Bjarni [~Bjarni@0x53589005.virnxx14.adsl-dhcp.tele.dk] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 01:23:38 *** Osai [~Osai@pD9EB43DA.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 01:39:04 *** BFM [~chatzilla@CPE-144-131-69-85.nsw.bigpond.net.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 01:43:02 *** Frostregen_ [SADDAM@dslb-084-058-161-037.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #openttd 01:46:08 *** Frostregen [SADDAM@dslb-084-058-133-152.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 01:46:12 *** Frostregen_ is now known as Frostregen 01:48:29 *** mikk36[EST] [~mikk36@ip63.cab84.tln.starman.ee] has joined #openttd 01:48:29 *** mikk36 [~mikk36@ip63.cab84.tln.starman.ee] has quit [Killed (NickServ (GHOST command used by mikk36[EST]))] 01:48:29 *** blindwaves [~woogleman@cm173.sigma118.maxonline.com.sg] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:48:30 *** Sionide [sionide@217.147.86.20] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:48:30 *** mikk36[EST] is now known as mikk36 01:48:44 *** Digitalfox [~chatzilla@bl8-41-193.dsl.telepac.pt] has joined #openttd 01:49:04 *** Sionide [sionide@217.147.86.20] has joined #openttd 01:49:53 *** Digitalfox [~chatzilla@bl8-41-193.dsl.telepac.pt] has quit [] 01:50:12 *** Digitalfox [~chatzilla@bl8-41-193.dsl.telepac.pt] has joined #openttd 01:54:39 *** Digitalfox [~chatzilla@bl8-41-193.dsl.telepac.pt] has quit [] 01:55:23 *** Digitalfox [~chatzilla@85.241.41.193] has joined #openttd 02:02:29 *** KritiK [Maxim@ppp85-141-224-9.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 02:09:13 *** Digitalfox [~chatzilla@85.241.41.193] has quit [Quit: Bye Bye...] 02:31:33 *** ThePizzaKing [~jeff@c211-28-162-213.eburwd2.vic.optusnet.com.au] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 02:31:39 *** Eddi|zuHause3 [~johekr@p54B75CBA.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 02:32:46 *** BFM [~chatzilla@CPE-138-130-149-27.nsw.bigpond.net.au] has joined #openttd 02:38:05 *** Eddi|zuHause2 [~johekr@p54B75C7D.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 02:41:33 *** G is now known as Nigel 02:53:51 *** ThePizzaKing [~jeff@c211-28-162-213.eburwd2.vic.optusnet.com.au] has joined #openttd 03:07:27 *** Sacro_ [Ben@87.102.80.3] has joined #openttd 03:09:22 *** Sacro [~Ben@87.102.80.3] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 03:09:54 *** Sacro_ is now known as Sacro 03:11:23 *** ThePizzaKing [~jeff@c211-28-162-213.eburwd2.vic.optusnet.com.au] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 03:11:29 *** GoneWacko [~gonewacko@h157014.upc-h.chello.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 03:32:25 *** ThePizzaKing [~jeff@c211-28-162-213.eburwd2.vic.optusnet.com.au] has joined #openttd 03:52:12 *** BFM [~chatzilla@CPE-138-130-149-27.nsw.bigpond.net.au] has quit [Quit: Chatzilla 0.9.77 [Firefox 1.5.0.9/2006120612]] 04:01:17 *** Sacro_ [Ben@87.102.80.3] has joined #openttd 04:01:18 *** Sacro [Ben@87.102.80.3] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 04:03:01 *** Sacro_ [Ben@87.102.80.3] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 04:05:37 *** roboboy [~Leo@c211-30-195-152.carlnfd4.nsw.optusnet.com.au] has joined #openttd 04:07:26 *** ThePizzaKing_ [~jeff@c211-28-160-244.eburwd2.vic.optusnet.com.au] has joined #openttd 04:08:18 *** ThePizzaKing [~jeff@c211-28-162-213.eburwd2.vic.optusnet.com.au] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 04:17:54 *** Frobozz [~kvirc@dialin02.cv.nrao.edu] has joined #openttd 04:27:30 *** glx [glx@bny93-6-82-245-156-124.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Quit: bye] 04:33:18 *** setrodox [~setrodox@83-65-237-146.dynamic.xdsl-line.inode.at] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:40:38 *** Osai [~Osai@pD9EB43DA.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: Osai] 05:03:02 *** Frobozz [~kvirc@dialin02.cv.nrao.edu] has left #openttd [So Long, and Thanks for All the Fish!] 05:38:32 *** Born_Acorn [~bornacorn@zernebok.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 05:54:20 *** Born_Acorn [~bornacorn@zernebok.com] has joined #openttd 05:57:16 *** blindwaves [~woogleman@cm173.sigma118.maxonline.com.sg] has joined #openttd 06:00:41 *** Osai [~Osai@pD9EB43DA.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 06:10:27 *** Tron_ [~tron@p54A3FE34.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 06:14:54 *** Tron [~tron@p54A3F119.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 06:14:58 *** Born_Acorn [~bornacorn@zernebok.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 06:21:08 *** Tron_ is now known as Tron 06:38:36 *** DJ_Mirage [~sexybigge@biggetje.xs4all.nl] has joined #openttd 06:43:57 *** McHawk_away [~hawk@p5489F6A6.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 06:44:53 *** GoneWacko [~gonewacko@h157014.upc-h.chello.nl] has joined #openttd 06:52:46 *** roboman [~Leo@c211-30-195-152.carlnfd4.nsw.optusnet.com.au] has joined #openttd 06:52:47 *** roboboy [~Leo@c211-30-195-152.carlnfd4.nsw.optusnet.com.au] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 06:55:09 *** McHawk_away [~hawk@p5489FB86.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 07:27:31 *** Jezral [~projectjj@nat.kollegienet.dk] has joined #openttd 07:41:23 *** XeryusTC [~irc@217.123.58.238] has joined #openttd 07:43:05 *** Osai [~Osai@pD9EB43DA.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: Osai] 07:48:18 *** ThePizzaKing_ is now known as ThePizzaKing 07:52:45 *** roboman [~Leo@c211-30-195-152.carlnfd4.nsw.optusnet.com.au] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 07:52:45 *** robotboy [~Leo@c211-30-195-152.carlnfd4.nsw.optusnet.com.au] has joined #openttd 07:59:39 *** ThePizzaKing [~jeff@c211-28-160-244.eburwd2.vic.optusnet.com.au] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 08:02:46 *** PandaMojo [~chatzilla@ip72-197-231-130.sd.sd.cox.net] has quit [Quit: Chatzilla 0.9.74 [Firefox 1.5.0.9/2006120612]] 08:03:22 *** iPandaMojo [~panda@ip72-197-231-130.sd.sd.cox.net] has joined #openttd 08:04:25 *** ThePizzaKing [~jeff@c211-28-160-244.eburwd2.vic.optusnet.com.au] has joined #openttd 08:11:34 *** GoneWacko [~gonewacko@h157014.upc-h.chello.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 08:24:47 *** ThePizzaKing [~jeff@c211-28-160-244.eburwd2.vic.optusnet.com.au] has quit [Quit: ThePizzaKing] 08:38:12 *** tokai [~tokai@p54B818F9.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 08:38:51 *** roboboy [~leo@c211-30-195-152.carlnfd4.nsw.optusnet.com.au] has joined #openttd 08:40:58 *** tokai [~tokai@p54B80190.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #openttd 08:41:02 *** mode/#openttd [+v tokai] by ChanServ 08:49:32 *** XeryusTC [~irc@217.123.58.238] has quit [] 08:58:32 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: celestar * r8648 /trunk/os/ (linux/ mandrake/ suse/ suse/openttd.spec): -Codechange: Renamed os/linux to os/mandrake because that's what is is about. Added another spec file for suse (early version) which will be used to create rpms 09:00:26 *** Purno [~Purno@5351CF18.cable.casema.nl] has joined #openttd 09:05:09 *** ThePizzaKing [~jeff@c211-28-160-244.eburwd2.vic.optusnet.com.au] has joined #openttd 09:09:49 *** Vikthor [~Vikthor@snat2.arachne.cz] has joined #openttd 09:24:04 *** robotboy [~Leo@c211-30-195-152.carlnfd4.nsw.optusnet.com.au] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 09:29:39 *** hrada [~ty@b07-305a.kn.vutbr.cz] has joined #openttd 09:29:58 *** Tobin [~Tobin@c58-107-61-130.eburwd7.vic.optusnet.com.au] has joined #openttd 09:30:05 * Tobin waves 09:31:40 *** hrada [~ty@b07-305a.kn.vutbr.cz] has quit [] 09:45:49 *** peter_ [~peter@svn.bucks.net] has joined #openttd 09:45:54 *** peter_ is now known as peter1138 09:58:37 *** peter1138 [~peter@svn.bucks.net] has quit [Quit: yum sucks] 10:01:22 *** Wolf01 [~Wolf01@dns1.netanday.it] has joined #openttd 10:01:27 <Wolf01> hi! 10:03:34 *** Desolator [Desolator@86.126.43.192] has joined #openttd 10:03:43 <Desolator> OTTD crashed 10:03:44 <Desolator> http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?p=551920 10:04:52 *** Desolator [Desolator@86.126.43.192] has quit [] 10:04:58 *** Desolator [Desolator@86.126.43.192] has joined #openttd 10:05:19 *** Desolator [Desolator@86.126.43.192] has quit [] 10:09:32 <ThePizzaKing> Wait, a bog? 10:10:33 <Smoovious> what's a bog? 10:11:10 <Rubidium> Smoovious: a poorly drained usually acid area rich in accumulated plant material, frequently surrounding a body of open water, and having a characteristic flora (as of sedges, heaths, and sphagnum) 10:11:19 <ThePizzaKing> I don't know, but there's on in autoreplace (according to that link) 10:11:35 <ThePizzaKing> s/on/one 10:12:04 * Rubidium wonders why one would autoreplace ships in a bog though :) 10:12:25 <ThePizzaKing> a good question 10:13:31 <Smoovious> wierd... 10:13:46 <Smoovious> next thing he'll be trying to say his computer is being infested with insects 10:28:12 *** setrodox [~setrodox@85-124-46-95.dynamic.xdsl-line.inode.at] has joined #openttd 10:29:10 *** Nigel_ [~nigel@202-154-145-102.ubs-dynamic.connections.net.nz] has joined #openttd 10:29:33 *** Nigel [~nigel@202-154-145-102.ubs-dynamic.connections.net.nz] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 10:30:10 *** Born_Acorn [~bornacorn@zernebok.com] has joined #openttd 10:30:42 *** Tron_ [TXBphBHS@nat-1.rz.uni-karlsruhe.de] has joined #openttd 10:36:06 *** Roel [~roel@e74036.upc-e.chello.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 10:39:04 *** Aloysha [~Aloysha@ppp12-250.lns2.syd7.internode.on.net] has joined #openttd 10:39:07 *** Aloysha [~Aloysha@ppp12-250.lns2.syd7.internode.on.net] has quit [] 10:39:09 *** HMage [~HMage@85.21.179.41] has joined #openttd 10:48:45 *** Roel [~roel@e74036.upc-e.chello.nl] has joined #openttd 10:52:30 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r8649 /branches/0.5/ (31 files in 2 dirs): [0.5] -Fix (8630): accidentally removed strings that were still in use for by 0.5 and forgot to add new languages to langs*.vcproj. 10:53:15 *** gass [~any@81.84.150.85] has joined #openttd 10:58:29 *** gass [~any@81.84.150.85] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:04:35 <tokai> when i u click "search servers" in LAN mode there is a stray dbg message in RC5. maybe should be fixed. 11:05:22 <Rubidium> what kind of debug message? 11:07:33 <Rubidium> ah, I see; that one has been there for ages 11:08:56 <tokai> seems it confuses some morphos players:) 11:09:12 <tokai> on morphos it opens an extra window for stdout/err in that case:) 11:10:00 <Rubidium> ah, ok 11:10:32 *** Sacro [~ben@87.102.80.3] has joined #openttd 11:13:07 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r8650 /branches/0.5/network_udp.c: [0.5] -Fix: 'Searching Server' is not worthy of debug level 0, as this opens an extra window on MorphOS for no reason. 11:14:21 *** boekabart [~boekabart@c97171.upc-c.chello.nl] has joined #openttd 11:14:42 <tokai> Rubidium: thx:) 11:15:10 <boekabart> rubidium: so is that fix going into RC6? :) 11:15:25 <tokai> 0.5.0 final is next i heard:) 11:15:43 <Rubidium> tokai: I said 'hopefully' :) 11:16:29 *** Sacro_ [~ben@87.102.80.3] has joined #openttd 11:16:30 *** Sacro [~ben@87.102.80.3] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:17:13 <Eddi|zuHause3> and that change does not apply to trunk? 11:17:53 <Rubidium> no, as it isn't level 0 in trunk anymore, probably changed during some refactoring 11:17:56 *** Sacro_ is now known as Sacro 11:27:14 *** HMage [~HMage@85.21.179.41] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:29:52 *** HMage [~HMage@85.21.179.41] has joined #openttd 11:31:45 *** ThePizzaKing [~jeff@c211-28-160-244.eburwd2.vic.optusnet.com.au] has quit [Quit: ThePizzaKing] 11:34:15 *** HMage` [~HMage@85.21.179.41] has joined #openttd 11:39:58 *** HMage [~HMage@85.21.179.41] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 11:46:50 *** Progman [~progman@p57A1C474.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 11:48:55 <Brianetta> tokai: Any release candidate hopes to be final, but each remains only a candidate. The release of 0.5.0 will be the last release candidate, unchanged except for the version number. 11:49:41 <Brianetta> So, either RC5 will become the release, or a later one will. If RC5 has bugs, there will be an RC6. 11:51:25 <Eddi|zuHause3> tagging 0.5.0 just means "we're tired of this, the next RC will be called 0.5.1" 11:58:11 *** Wolf01 is now known as Wolf01|Lunch 12:01:50 *** HMage` [~HMage@85.21.179.41] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:05:20 *** HMage [~HMage@85.21.179.41] has joined #openttd 12:05:43 *** Eddi|zuHause3 [~johekr@p54B75CBA.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 12:05:58 <tokai> Brianetta: ah.. good to know. I'm not so much in this unix versions scheme thingy. on amigaos your program just has a version and a revision. if you find a bug you bump the revision: 1.0 1.1 1.2 ... 1.12 1.13 etc. :) if its contains majore new things you bump the version and revision resets to zero. 12:06:25 <Brianetta> That's how Linux stuff works 12:06:31 <Brianetta> with the exception of a stable release 12:06:37 <tokai> but it has 4 levels:) 12:06:43 <tokai> crazy:) 12:06:49 <Brianetta> Stable releases are intended to be free from all but the most minor bugs 12:07:10 <Brianetta> Version 1.0 is traditionally the first feature-complete release 12:07:54 <Brianetta> 0.5 is a stable release, and after it's released, any amendments will be 0.5.1, 0.5.2... 0.5.138 ... etc 12:08:01 <Brianetta> but they will have the same feature set 12:08:45 <Brianetta> My own project, autopilot, has version numbers as you describe 12:08:50 <tokai> Brianetta: but what difference does it make to just bump the build instead releasing release candidates? ppl will just use latest version anyway usually 12:09:04 <Brianetta> It's a matter of pride 12:09:11 <Brianetta> The release candidates aren't "versions" 12:09:18 <Brianetta> they're candidates to be that version 12:09:30 <Rubidium> tokai: about 50% of the servers is still 0.4.8 12:09:30 <tokai> ah.. so unix programmers are chickens:) I see:P 12:09:35 <Brianetta> no 12:09:41 <Brianetta> actual development is continuing in parallel 12:09:56 <roboboy> I read that as Brianettum 12:09:58 <Brianetta> the trunk revision is more advanced, with more features 12:10:18 <Brianetta> and nightly build of trunk are available 12:10:36 <Brianetta> but 0.5 will be free of obvious bugs 12:10:49 *** scia [~scia@AveloN.xs4all.nl] has joined #openttd 12:10:57 <Rubidium> look for example at samba; it has 3.x.y for it's current stable stuff, but they are already working (for quite some time on) 4.0.0, which will be a completely different architecture. 12:11:23 <Brianetta> Or the Linux kernel itself 12:11:28 <Rubidium> and the 3.x.y version is still being developed too, i.e. the x is incremented sometimes 12:12:52 *** ChrisM87 [~ChrisM@p54AC6B2A.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 12:14:23 <roboboy> gnight 12:14:50 *** roboboy [~leo@c211-30-195-152.carlnfd4.nsw.optusnet.com.au] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 12:15:31 *** Eddi|zuHause [~johekr@p54B76BE9.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 12:19:16 *** Bjarni [~Bjarni@0x53589005.virnxx14.adsl-dhcp.tele.dk] has joined #openttd 12:19:20 *** mode/#openttd [+o Bjarni] by ChanServ 12:48:13 *** Osai [~Osai@pD9EB43DA.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 12:54:12 *** setrodox [~setrodox@85-124-46-95.dynamic.xdsl-line.inode.at] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 13:01:17 *** Bjarni [~Bjarni@0x53589005.virnxx14.adsl-dhcp.tele.dk] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 13:03:30 *** green-devil [~rendmig@0x573556db.vgnxx6.adsl-dhcp.tele.dk] has joined #openttd 13:08:03 *** setrodox [~setrodox@83-65-236-104.dynamic.xdsl-line.inode.at] has joined #openttd 13:08:51 *** Wolf01|Lunch is now known as Wolf01 13:27:36 *** iPandaMojo [~panda@ip72-197-231-130.sd.sd.cox.net] has quit [Quit: iPandaMojo] 13:46:50 *** glx [glx@bny93-6-82-245-156-124.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #openttd 13:46:54 *** mode/#openttd [+v glx] by ChanServ 13:51:48 *** HMage [~HMage@85.21.179.41] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:56:03 *** HMage [~HMage@85.21.179.41] has joined #openttd 13:58:31 *** Osai [~Osai@pD9EB43DA.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: Osai] 14:06:26 *** Zavior [~Zavior@d195-237-7-217.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has quit [Quit: ( www.nnscript.de :: NoNameScript 4.02 :: www.XLhost.de )] 14:08:20 <Wolf01> bbl 14:08:23 *** Wolf01 [~Wolf01@dns1.netanday.it] has quit [] 14:10:54 *** egladil [~egladil@frukt.csbnet.se] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 14:10:54 *** Zavior [~Zavior@d195-237-7-217.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has joined #openttd 14:13:07 <Belugas> Tron : Ping 14:14:10 *** egladil [~egladil@frukt.csbnet.se] has joined #openttd 14:27:03 <HMage> omg - http://media.www.studentprintz.com/media/storage/paper974/news/2007/01/23/Opinion/Scientists.Cure.Cancer.But.No.One.Takes.Notice-2667600.shtml 14:27:26 <Brianetta> http://petitions.pm.gov.uk/maglev/ 14:40:33 *** Eddi|zuHause [~johekr@p54B76BE9.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 14:40:43 *** Eddi|zuHause [~johekr@p54B77FE6.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 14:44:39 *** HMage [~HMage@85.21.179.41] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 14:57:44 *** Tobin [~Tobin@c58-107-61-130.eburwd7.vic.optusnet.com.au] has quit [Quit: Tobin] 15:08:02 *** _42_ [truelight@openttd.org] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 15:13:06 *** Belugas [belugas@openttd.org] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 15:15:30 *** Sionide is now known as Siiionide 15:16:49 *** Belugas [belugas@openttd.org] has joined #openttd 15:17:20 *** Frostregen [SADDAM@dslb-084-058-161-037.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Quit: und weg] 15:17:31 *** Siiionide is now known as Siioniide 15:18:03 *** mode/#openttd [+o Belugas] by ChanServ 15:18:03 *** _42_ [truelight@openttd.org] has joined #openttd 15:19:21 *** Frostregen [SADDAM@dslb-084-058-115-221.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #openttd 15:20:17 *** GoneWacko [~gonewacko@h157014.upc-h.chello.nl] has joined #openttd 15:26:18 *** green-devil [~rendmig@0x573556db.vgnxx6.adsl-dhcp.tele.dk] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 15:40:03 *** boekabart [~boekabart@c97171.upc-c.chello.nl] has quit [Quit: Your eyes grow heavy.. you grow very sleepy..... zzzz...] 15:45:48 *** orudge` [~orudge@8afbfebe.resnet.st-andrews.ac.uk] has joined #openttd 15:49:23 *** orudge [~orudge@8afbfebe.resnet.st-andrews.ac.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 15:50:53 *** Bjarni [~Bjarni@0x53589005.virnxx14.adsl-dhcp.tele.dk] has joined #openttd 15:50:55 *** mode/#openttd [+o Bjarni] by ChanServ 16:02:11 <ln-> Bjarni: http://www.iltasanomat.fi/uutiset/ulkomaat/uutinen.asp?id=1315468 16:03:27 <Bjarni> oh, so that's what it looks like 16:03:39 <Bjarni> I heard it on the radio and thought "wtf" 16:04:24 <Eddi|zuHause> and i look at this and say "wtf"... so what is the difference? 16:10:34 *** Osai [~Osai@pD9EB43DA.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 16:10:47 <Bjarni> the difference is that some Swedes have complained about that video 16:11:09 <Bjarni> 1: they talked about a Danish video that 7 million people have seen (but not me) 16:11:32 *** YOYO [~YOYO@ip51cc9a76.speed.planet.nl] has joined #openttd 16:11:35 <Bjarni> 2: some Swedes have complained about a movie recorded in Denmark and is on a Danish homepage 16:11:40 <YOYO> Hello 16:11:56 <Bjarni> 3: I don't get that video based on what they said about it 16:11:56 <YOYO> im looking for Brainetta :) is he here? 16:12:01 <Brianetta> No 16:12:02 <Brianetta> I'm not here 16:12:07 <Brianetta> I'm over there --> 16:12:11 <Brianetta> next channel 16:12:11 <YOYO> can i speak you in private plz :) 16:12:18 *** Brianetta was kicked from #openttd by Bjarni [now he isn't here] 16:12:20 <Bjarni> :P 16:12:24 <YOYO> :P 16:12:25 <YOYO> lol 16:12:29 *** Brianetta [~brian@82-39-52-234.cable.ubr03.benw.blueyonder.co.uk] has joined #openttd 16:12:31 <Brianetta> )-: 16:12:37 * Brianetta flicks bogeys at Bjarni 16:12:53 <Eddi|zuHause> i have never seen so much op abuse in my life 16:13:05 <Brianetta> YOYO: In channel's fine 16:13:09 <YOYO> ok 16:13:24 <YOYO> you know i posted about an IP thats sending packages? 16:13:30 <Brianetta> Yes, you did 16:13:38 <YOYO> well i tracked it 16:13:41 <YOYO> and this is the source 16:13:42 <Brianetta> Well done (: 16:13:52 <YOYO> hostname sarah.ppcis.org 16:13:58 <Brianetta> Interesting 16:14:07 <YOYO> idd 16:14:33 <Eddi|zuHause> so this is like "i get hacked by someone at 'localhost'"? 16:14:36 <Brianetta> The only UDP packets my server is sending on that port are to the master server, and packet type 1 to servers 16:14:44 <YOYO> hmmm 16:14:46 <Brianetta> with that CGI based thing 16:15:01 <YOYO> its sending through verious ports 16:15:02 <Brianetta> You probably use my little graphic in your forum signatures? 16:15:07 <YOYO> last port is 1896 16:15:12 <Brianetta> The source port will change, yes 16:15:17 <YOYO> indeed 16:15:28 <Brianetta> but only one packet type is ever sent 16:15:37 <YOYO> hmmm 16:15:50 <Brianetta> Of course, you're free to look at the source 16:16:00 <YOYO> the consoles on both servers are almost full with the report: Recieved invalid packet type 173 16:16:01 *** valhalla1w [~valhallas@a62-251-30-68.adsl.xs4all.nl] has joined #openttd 16:16:41 <YOYO> hmm any idea why it keeps spamming my pc? 16:16:45 <Brianetta> http://ppcis.org/standard/banner/banner.tcl 16:17:30 <Brianetta> puts $server_socket [binary format sc 3 0] 16:17:35 <Brianetta> That's the only thing it sends 16:17:51 <Brianetta> Three bytes 16:18:03 <Brianetta> 00, 03, 00 16:18:15 <Brianetta> a 16 bit int and a char 16:18:15 <YOYO> hmmm dont believe its the banner cause i get the messages since i started the server today 16:18:19 <Rubidium> and none of the bytes will ever be 173, even when the bits are send in the reverse order 16:18:27 <YOYO> and i have the banner for more then 3 weeks now 16:18:41 <Brianetta> Give me a minute 16:18:44 <YOYO> k 16:18:47 <Brianetta> I'm going to log on as root 16:18:54 <Brianetta> and make sure there's nothing od running 16:18:55 <YOYO> we landed around port 1900 16:19:18 <YOYO> k ty :) 16:21:12 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r8651 /trunk/src/ (town.h town_map.h): -Codechange: group the functions related to getting and setting the town index and move one function that is not related to the map array out of town_map.h. 16:22:55 <Brianetta> YOYO: Which port? 16:23:01 *** valhallasw [~valhallas@a62-251-30-68.adsl.xs4all.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 16:23:01 <YOYO> last port 1920 16:23:09 <Brianetta> :1848 is closest 16:23:17 <Brianetta> and that's a listener 16:23:21 <YOYO> :S 16:23:27 <Brianetta> and it's an openttd server 16:23:42 <YOYO> last ports in console: 1909 to 1920 16:24:17 <YOYO> 1921 3 times now 16:24:42 <Brianetta> OK, I have the sniffer going 16:25:01 <Brianetta> | UDP (105 bytes) from 84.163.104.50:3979 to 87.117.209.194:1924 on eth0 | 16:25:07 <YOYO> port 1924 on the moment 16:26:00 <YOYO> not my IP btw 16:26:02 <Brianetta> Invalid or not, your server responded with a 105 byte packet 16:26:07 <Brianetta> not yours 16:26:15 <Brianetta> right 16:26:15 <YOYO> nope not my IP 16:26:24 <YOYO> mine according to Master server 16:26:26 <YOYO> 81.204.154.118 16:26:39 <Brianetta> | UDP (113 bytes) from 81.204.154.118:3978 to 87.117.209.194:1926 on eth0 | 16:26:44 <Brianetta> Again, your'e responding 16:26:56 <Brianetta> It looks like legitimate OpenTTD traffic from here 16:26:59 <YOYO> thats mine 16:27:04 <YOYO> but the first isnt 16:27:30 <YOYO> hmm what can create that link? 16:27:43 *** Desolator [Desolator@86.126.43.192] has joined #openttd 16:27:45 <Brianetta> My graphic CGI or a player 16:27:50 <Brianetta> since there are no players on my server 16:27:53 <Brianetta> it's the CGI 16:28:02 <Desolator> did any developer see my bug report? 16:28:05 <YOYO> hmmm 16:28:17 <YOYO> strange never hade it before untill this morning 16:28:33 <Brianetta> Nothing changed 16:28:35 <YOYO> both my RC 5 and RC3 picked up that report 16:28:43 *** Desolator [Desolator@86.126.43.192] has quit [] 16:29:00 <Brianetta> Can you try to capture the packet you receive? 16:29:05 <YOYO> how? 16:29:12 <YOYO> not that good in networks :) 16:29:17 <Brianetta> use a sniffer program 16:29:49 <YOYO> i will search 16:29:58 <Brianetta> wait a second 16:30:05 <YOYO> can i run such computer on any PC in the network or does it have to be the server it self? 16:30:08 <YOYO> k 16:31:02 <Brianetta> http://ppcis.org/standard/udp_info.cgi?ip=81.204.154.118&port=3978 16:31:04 <Brianetta> http://ppcis.org/standard/udp_info.cgi?ip=81.204.154.118&port=3979 16:31:21 <Brianetta> Refresh those URLs and see if they generate your warning 16:32:18 <YOYO> k lemme see 16:33:32 *** YOYO [~YOYO@ip51cc9a76.speed.planet.nl] has quit [Quit: ItŽs easier to fight for oneŽs principles than to live up to them.] 16:34:37 *** YOYO [~YOYO@ip51cc9a76.speed.planet.nl] has joined #openttd 16:35:01 <YOYO> hmm Server 2 seems to respond on it indeed 16:35:35 <Brianetta> Well, we know the cause 16:35:43 <Brianetta> My Tcl script confuses the server a little 16:35:55 <Brianetta> but it gets a response, because the page is populated with those data 16:35:58 <YOYO> seems yes :) 16:36:15 *** Twofish [~Twofish@195.204.107.4] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 16:36:24 <YOYO> lemme see what happends if i restart the empty server 16:36:57 <YOYO> ok should be out now 16:37:00 <YOYO> and restarting 16:37:21 <Brianetta> http://ppcis.org/standard/screenshot.png 16:37:22 <Brianetta> sweet 16:38:05 <Rubidium> a screenshot of a part of a station? 16:38:39 <YOYO> hmmm didnt help 16:38:56 <YOYO> Server 2 again recieves an invallid packet type 173 16:43:50 *** Digitalfox [~chatzilla@bl7-181-217.dsl.telepac.pt] has joined #openttd 16:44:19 <YOYO> port 2339 16:46:49 <Rubidium> Brianetta: does it send the type 173 (if you check it with the sniffer)? 16:47:22 <Brianetta> Rubidium: I don't believe so, but I don't have a very good network monitor on there 16:48:40 <YOYO> should i run a sniffer? 16:49:12 <Brianetta> If you like 16:49:32 <YOYO> can it run on any PC on the network or does it have to run on the server it self? 16:49:52 <Brianetta> It's easiest to run it on the server 16:51:47 <YOYO> k hold on 16:53:26 <YOYO> hmmm 16:53:30 <YOYO> where to look for? 16:53:49 * Brianetta is attempting to compile snort 16:55:24 * Belugas attemps to snore while compiling 16:55:43 <YOYO> lol 16:55:56 <YOYO> strange the Sniffer doenst get youre IP adress :s 16:56:50 <Brianetta> Does it give any ip address? 16:57:11 <YOYO> yeah my internal and 88.196.137.84 16:57:14 *** |2rB [~Twofish@195.204.107.4] has joined #openttd 16:57:22 <YOYO> last could be the player on my server 16:57:27 *** |2rB [~Twofish@195.204.107.4] has left #openttd [] 16:57:33 <Brianetta> Well, refresh those URLs I gave you 16:57:39 <Brianetta> That'll send the packets to you 16:57:46 *** Twofish [~Twofish@195.204.107.4] has joined #openttd 16:58:20 *** Twofish [~Twofish@195.204.107.4] has quit [] 16:58:42 *** |2rB [~Twofish@195.204.107.4] has joined #openttd 17:00:04 <Brianetta> Well, snort failed 17:00:09 <Brianetta> not that I know how to use it 17:00:31 <YOYO> as far as i can see the renewall of the pages doenst allert the sniffer 17:00:45 <Brianetta> You should see something 17:00:47 <YOYO> only IP's are the intern and that outside one 17:00:56 <Brianetta> Remember, it's UDP 17:01:01 <Brianetta> so you won't see a connection 17:01:06 <Brianetta> UDP is single packets only 17:01:32 *** Born_Acorn [~bornacorn@zernebok.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 17:02:34 <YOYO> ah gotcha 17:02:45 <YOYO> yep youre IP is in there 17:04:32 *** Rens2Sea [~Rens2Sea@213.211.185.168] has joined #openttd 17:04:36 <Brianetta> OK, I'm a-sniffing 17:05:38 <Brianetta> unalocated.leighctc.kent.sch.uk.3981 17:05:49 <Brianetta> I wonder if that school knows they're running a server... 17:06:01 <YOYO> lol 17:07:20 <YOYO> lot of UDP's are passing 17:07:52 <YOYO> hmmm whats this 17:08:26 <YOYO> Source 192.168.2.1 17:08:31 <YOYO> aint that an internal ip? 17:08:37 <Brianetta> yes 17:08:39 <Rubidium> looks like it 17:08:40 <YOYO> if so it isnt my network range 17:08:48 *** Eddi|zuHause [~johekr@p54B77FE6.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 17:08:55 <Brianetta> It's between you and the internet, then 17:08:58 <YOYO> mine is ranging around the 10.0.0.*** 17:09:07 <Brianetta> Might even be on the other side of your router, but within your ISP 17:09:19 *** GoneWacko [~gonewacko@h157014.upc-h.chello.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 17:09:20 <YOYO> hmmm port 1900 17:09:36 <Brianetta> OK 17:09:42 <YOYO> Destination IP 239.255.255.250 17:10:06 *** Born_Acorn [~bornacorn@zernebok.com] has joined #openttd 17:13:42 <YOYO> hmm youre request comes in at the regular gaming ports 17:13:51 <Brianetta> yes 17:13:53 <YOYO> but seems to leave at a different one 17:13:56 <Brianetta> yes 17:14:40 <Brianetta> origin port doesn't matter an awful lot 17:14:50 <Brianetta> but replies must go to it 17:15:02 <YOYO> hmm any idea why my server is acting like this? 17:15:19 <Brianetta> 17:15:15.336460 IP sarah.ppcis.org.2676 > ip51cc9a76.speed.planet.nl.3978: UDP, length: 3 0x0000: 4500 001f 0000 4000 4011 2554 5775 d1c2 E.....@.@.%TWu.. 0x0010: 51cc 9a76 0a74 0f8a 000b cd5f 0300 00 Q..v.t....._... 17:15:25 <Brianetta> That's a packet I sent you 17:15:33 <Brianetta> The last three bytes are the content 17:15:39 <Brianetta> the rest is headers, etc 17:15:52 <Brianetta> 0300 00 17:15:56 <Brianetta> That's normal 17:15:58 <Brianetta> but this: 17:16:05 <Brianetta> 17:15:42.656063 IP sarah.ppcis.org.2677 > ip51cc9a76.speed.planet.nl.3978: UDP, length: 1 0x0000: 4500 001d 0000 4000 4011 2556 5775 d1c2 E.....@.@.%VWu.. 0x0010: 51cc 9a76 0a75 0f8a 0009 c662 0a Q..v.u.....b. 17:16:10 <Brianetta> 0a 17:16:12 <Brianetta> length 1 17:16:19 <Brianetta> I've no idea 17:16:32 <YOYO> hmmm see the 0300 00 bit here 17:17:24 <YOYO> but that last one not on the moment 17:17:40 <Brianetta> That last one isn't a valid openttd packet 17:17:50 <Brianetta> a valid one has at least two bytes 17:17:50 <YOYO> hmmm 17:17:58 <Brianetta> and if it only has two bytes, it has no content 17:18:11 <Brianetta> so three bytes is really the minimum 17:18:17 <Brianetta> a one-byte packet is meaningles 17:18:20 <YOYO> so my Server is handeling youre request on a wron way? 17:18:24 <Brianetta> no 17:18:33 <Brianetta> I don't know where that other packet is coming from 17:18:39 <YOYO> hmmm 17:18:46 <YOYO> not from me or is it? 17:19:09 <Brianetta> It's to you 17:19:19 <YOYO> hmmm 17:19:57 <Brianetta> Every single one sends it 17:20:00 <Brianetta> aha 17:20:07 <Brianetta> I think I have it 17:20:19 <YOYO> ah :) 17:20:20 <Brianetta> 0a 17:20:26 <Brianetta> it's so damned obvious 17:20:28 <Brianetta> it's a newline 17:20:40 <YOYO> uhh maybe for you but doenst say much to me :) 17:20:48 <Brianetta> It's ascii 10 17:21:04 <YOYO> a web lang? 17:21:07 <Brianetta> Ctrl-J 17:21:14 <Brianetta> Carriage return 17:21:26 <YOYO> is that for me? 17:21:34 <Brianetta> It shouldn't be being snet 17:21:36 *** Digitalfox [~chatzilla@bl7-181-217.dsl.telepac.pt] has quit [Quit: Bye Bye...] 17:21:54 *** Digitalfox [~chatzilla@bl7-181-217.dsl.telepac.pt] has joined #openttd 17:22:04 <YOYO> hmmm 17:22:59 <Brianetta> ok 17:23:08 <Brianetta> There 17:23:09 <Brianetta> All fixed 17:23:23 <Brianetta> Man I'm a lame-ass 17:23:34 <YOYO> yeah :) 17:23:40 <Brianetta> oy 17:23:47 <YOYO> see the sniffer react but the server console stays empty 17:23:47 <Brianetta> you can't agree unless you know what happened (: 17:24:01 <YOYO> :P 17:24:26 <Brianetta> Is that you refreshing? 17:24:28 <YOYO> well its gone ty Branetta :) 17:24:35 <YOYO> yeah a few times 17:24:39 <Brianetta> OK (: 17:24:46 <YOYO> but the console stays clear now :) 17:24:47 *** Eddi|zuHause [~johekr@p54B75B3A.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 17:24:58 *** BobingAbout [~BobingAbo@adsl-213-249-239-223.karoo.KCOM.COM] has joined #openttd 17:25:01 *** BobingAbout [~BobingAbo@adsl-213-249-239-223.karoo.KCOM.COM] has quit [] 17:25:11 <Brianetta> Tash 17:25:14 <Brianetta> very brief 17:26:21 *** GoneWacko [~gonewacko@d130006.upc-d.chello.nl] has joined #openttd 17:26:54 *** BobingAbout [~BobingAbo@adsl-213-249-239-223.karoo.KCOM.COM] has joined #openttd 17:26:56 *** BobingAbout [~BobingAbo@adsl-213-249-239-223.karoo.KCOM.COM] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:28:18 <Brianetta> Rubidium: Sorted. I forgot to supress the newline on Tcl's puts function, when writing the packet to the socket. This resulted in a second packet with only a newline in it. I imagine the 173 came from junk, as OpenTTD read past that single byte. Is there an overflow exploit risk, do you think? 17:30:25 <YOYO> oww Brianetta you dont have to answer the PM now :P 17:30:37 <Brianetta> YOYO: Yeah, I figured that out (: 17:30:42 <YOYO> :) 17:30:49 <Brianetta> In any case, I wouldn't have known 17:30:55 <Brianetta> because I don't use Windows 17:31:04 *** BobingAbout [~BobingAbo@adsl-213-249-239-223.karoo.KCOM.COM] has joined #openttd 17:31:04 <YOYO> wel would probally never noticed :) 17:31:05 *** BobingAbout [~BobingAbo@adsl-213-249-239-223.karoo.KCOM.COM] has quit [] 17:32:08 *** BobingAbout [~BobingAbo@adsl-213-249-239-223.karoo.KCOM.COM] has joined #openttd 17:32:12 *** BobingAbout [~BobingAbo@adsl-213-249-239-223.karoo.KCOM.COM] has quit [] 17:33:18 *** BobingAbout [~BobingAbo@adsl-213-249-239-223.karoo.KCOM.COM] has joined #openttd 17:33:20 *** BobingAbout [~BobingAbo@adsl-213-249-239-223.karoo.KCOM.COM] has quit [] 17:33:20 <YOYO> k having dinner cya and ty again brianetta 17:36:10 *** BobingAbout [~BobingAbo@adsl-213-249-239-223.karoo.KCOM.COM] has joined #openttd 17:36:11 *** BobingAbout [~BobingAbo@adsl-213-249-239-223.karoo.KCOM.COM] has quit [] 17:37:30 *** |Jeroen| [~jeroen@dD5772982.access.telenet.be] has joined #openttd 17:38:50 *** BobingAbout [~BobingAbo@adsl-213-249-239-223.karoo.KCOM.COM] has joined #openttd 17:38:55 *** BobingAbout [~BobingAbo@adsl-213-249-239-223.karoo.KCOM.COM] has quit [] 17:39:33 *** BobingAbout [~BobingAbo@adsl-213-249-239-223.karoo.KCOM.COM] has joined #openttd 17:39:34 *** BobingAbout [~BobingAbo@adsl-213-249-239-223.karoo.KCOM.COM] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:40:31 *** orudge` is now known as orudge 17:40:34 *** Wolf01 [~wolf01@host20-233-dynamic.14-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #openttd 17:40:48 <Wolf01> ciao! 17:40:52 *** Rens2Sea is now known as Rens2Eat 17:43:17 <stillunknown_> So, what's new? 17:43:46 <Brianetta> Just a new RC 17:44:50 <Rubidium> Brianetta: there is no overflow exploit risk, it will read a maximum amount of data per packet and the packetsize will always be truncated to the packetsize 17:45:34 *** bubersson [~bubersson@mnisek.casablanca.cz] has joined #openttd 17:46:19 <bubersson> Is this sea-level road a bug or a feature?? http://img253.imageshack.us/img253/9240/bug06fw0.png 17:47:21 *** McHawk_away is now known as McHawk 17:47:35 <McHawk> rehi 17:48:15 <Eddi|zuHause> bubersson: it's sea level canals, that is a feature 17:49:14 <bubersson> Eddi|zuHause: ok, because i do like like it ;) 17:51:49 <bubersson> it screenshoted from new miniIN http://nightly.openttd.org/MiniIN/files/ (I know.. a little advert, but someone may not notice bout miniIN RC5) 17:54:00 <Rubidium> bubersson: feature 17:54:40 <Rubidium> though it is also in all RCs for 0.5.0 17:55:47 *** Vikthor [~Vikthor@snat2.arachne.cz] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 17:56:12 *** valhallasw [~valhallas@a62-251-30-68.adsl.xs4all.nl] has joined #openttd 17:57:38 *** Osai [~Osai@pD9EB43DA.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: Osai] 17:58:25 *** e1ko [~L@161.157.broadband2.iol.cz] has joined #openttd 17:59:52 *** bubersson [~bubersson@mnisek.casablanca.cz] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 18:01:58 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r8652 /branches/newhouses/docs/Howto_compile_lng_files_from_CLI.txt: [NewHouses] -Fix (7730): a file was not removed (moved properly) during the sync. 18:03:04 *** valhalla1w [~valhallas@a62-251-30-68.adsl.xs4all.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 18:04:13 *** Desolator [Desolator@86.126.43.192] has joined #openttd 18:04:18 <Desolator> hello! 18:04:23 <Desolator> any developers online? 18:07:03 <Rubidium> I'm not going to debug savegames with any users custom builds. 18:07:19 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r8653 /branches/newhouses/src/ (newgrf.cpp town_cmd.cpp town_map.h): [NewHouses] -Cleanup: @result -> @return, comment style, spaces before function definitions. 18:12:19 <Wolf01> have somebody set up an svn server under windows without apache? 18:13:11 *** BJH2 [~chatzilla@e176100038.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #openttd 18:18:18 *** Desolator [Desolator@86.126.43.192] has quit [] 18:18:32 *** Ailure [Gamefreak@194.47.44.229] has joined #openttd 18:18:40 <Ailure> I think I got a classmate addicted to openTTD 18:18:53 <Ailure> I probably spent more time helping him with some advanced features 18:18:57 <Ailure> than on the lecture itself 18:19:10 <Ailure> (we were not doing anything anyway, just setting up some UML thing in netbeans) 18:23:40 *** Digitalfox [~chatzilla@bl7-181-217.dsl.telepac.pt] has quit [Quit: Bye Bye...] 18:24:14 *** mikk36 [~mikk36@ip63.cab84.tln.starman.ee] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:31:16 *** Tron_ [TXBphBHS@nat-1.rz.uni-karlsruhe.de] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 18:38:32 *** Progman [~progman@p57A1C474.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:41:00 *** peter1138 [~peter1138@217.151.109.196] has joined #openttd 18:41:45 <Belugas> hello peter1138 18:42:03 <Belugas> welcome among the addicted :) 18:42:11 <peter1138> hullo 18:42:59 *** GoneWack1 [~gonewacko@d130006.upc-d.chello.nl] has joined #openttd 18:42:59 *** GoneWacko [~gonewacko@d130006.upc-d.chello.nl] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:43:02 *** GoneWack1 is now known as GoneWacko 18:43:02 *** KD19 [~KD19@tor-irc.dnsbl.oftc.net] has joined #openttd 18:43:50 <KD19> hello there 18:43:58 *** e1ko [~L@161.157.broadband2.iol.cz] has quit [Quit: bye, Im going off] 18:44:14 <KD19> Why is there no replays feature? 18:44:18 <KD19> That adds so much to a multiplayer game! 18:44:28 <KD19> (forgive me if it's there or and I missed it) 18:44:30 <peter1138> who what? 18:44:39 <peter1138> what is a 'replays' feature? 18:44:46 *** |Jeroen| [~jeroen@dD5772982.access.telenet.be] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:44:48 <KD19> well 18:44:54 <KD19> you load it and it plays 18:44:56 <KD19> for you 18:45:00 <KD19> the game 18:45:10 <KD19> at x1 x2 x4 x8 x16 etc speeds 18:45:15 *** Rens2Eat is now known as Rens2Sea 18:45:19 <KD19> then you can show games you played to your friends 18:46:46 <Ailure> hmmm 18:46:51 <Ailure> seeing how openTTD multiplayer works 18:46:51 <peter1138> doesn't seem very useful to me 18:46:57 <Ailure> that actually a quite possible feature 18:47:07 <KD19> Of course it's possible 18:47:16 <Ailure> Infact, that's how emulators do it 18:47:28 <KD19> in it's most basic form it's as simple as recording initial state and recording all network traffic 18:47:31 <Ailure> I mean, the way openTTD does multiplayer 18:47:35 <Ailure> reminds me how most emulators do it 18:47:38 <Ailure> over the internet 18:47:41 <KD19> ah : ) 18:47:49 *** e1ko [~L@161.157.broadband2.iol.cz] has joined #openttd 18:47:55 <Ailure> and it's also the same way some emulators records movies 18:47:57 <Ailure> such as zsnes 18:48:00 *** GoneWack1 [~gonewacko@d130006.upc-d.chello.nl] has joined #openttd 18:48:11 <KD19> I know nothing yet of OpenTTD internals 18:48:18 <KD19> just remember playing the real thing long time ago 18:48:20 <Ailure> I would actually think it's fun to see a game being replayed from start to end 18:48:22 <KD19> somebody said it now had multiplayer 18:48:28 <KD19> yeah! : D 18:48:39 <KD19> I think basically you just keep a list of actions 18:48:44 <KD19> same things you send of the network 18:48:49 <Ailure> well 18:49:03 <Ailure> it just need to record 18:49:04 *** Wolf01 is now known as Wolf01|AWAY 18:49:06 <Ailure> what actions happens on what frames 18:49:13 <KD19> ya 18:49:17 <KD19> that's how a lot of games do it 18:49:19 <Ailure> That's what multiplayer works infact 18:49:22 <KD19> and record the chat 18:50:04 <Ailure> heh that's easy 18:50:12 <KD19> ^^ 18:50:23 <Ailure> I think Brianetta does that on his servers even 18:50:33 <KD19> ah 18:50:42 <KD19> record it in the replay file 18:50:43 <KD19> ^^ 18:50:46 <KD19> with proper frames 18:50:48 <KD19> so chat plays back too 18:51:04 <Ailure> unfortuantly I only know how it would be done theortically :P 18:51:09 <KD19> It's good way to prevent abuse too 18:51:16 <KD19> ah 18:51:17 <KD19> then 18:51:25 <KD19> you're already halfway there 18:51:31 <KD19> : P 18:51:34 <KD19> I'm willing to help but I'm completely new to opentdd internals 18:51:56 <KD19> maybe you can post it to a mailinglist 18:51:59 <KD19> ; ) 18:52:22 <Ailure> Neither do I 18:52:26 <Ailure> I mostly peeked around in the source 18:52:29 *** GoneWacko [~gonewacko@d130006.upc-d.chello.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 18:52:29 *** GoneWack1 is now known as GoneWacko 18:53:28 <KD19> It's really funny 18:53:35 <Ailure> I have experienced with both assembly and Java 18:53:39 <Ailure> but not much with C++ 18:53:40 <KD19> usually the community builds a replay host somewhere 18:53:47 <KD19> and replays get rated 18:53:49 <KD19> etc 18:53:52 <KD19> the speed-up is essential though 18:53:59 <KD19> hehe 18:54:09 <Ailure> how many frame are a day now? 18:54:25 <Ailure> or what about a year? 18:55:23 <KD19> no clue... 18:55:24 <KD19> : P 18:55:37 <KD19> aren't there any developers here? 18:55:47 *** Purno [~Purno@5351CF18.cable.casema.nl] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:55:50 <KD19> Belugas, Bjarni, Darkvater, glx, tokai --- Ping! 18:56:55 <KD19> hehe 18:58:14 <Belugas> pong 18:58:52 <KD19> hey 18:58:55 <KD19> are you a developer? 18:59:07 <Belugas> sometimes, when life permits it yes 18:59:21 <KD19> : ( 18:59:23 <KD19> is that often? 18:59:31 <KD19> Is life permitting 18:59:36 <Belugas> since last december, not really ;) 18:59:46 <KD19> aww 18:59:54 <KD19> You got married last december? ; ) 18:59:55 <Belugas> but go on, how can i be of help? 19:00:13 <KD19> ah, do you think a replay feature would be a nice addition? 19:00:21 <Belugas> nope 19:00:24 <KD19> I find it odd it hasn't been brought up before! (and implemented) 19:00:28 <KD19> aww 19:00:29 <KD19> why? 19:01:12 <Belugas> too much work to record everything that the user will do, too less gain out of it 19:01:18 <Belugas> in my humble opinion 19:01:25 <KD19> Ah.. 19:01:33 <Belugas> egladil started a patch about that a while ago, though 19:01:42 <Belugas> jut don't remember how far he went 19:01:43 <KD19> you only have to hook slightly above the network layer 19:01:46 *** YOYO [~YOYO@ip51cc9a76.speed.planet.nl] has quit [Quit: Let He who taketh the Plunge Remember to return it by Tuesday.] 19:01:53 <KD19> you're already record everything the user does 19:01:56 <KD19> to sent it over the network ; ) 19:01:59 <Belugas> hehe 19:02:03 <KD19> make a local copy + of what you receive 19:02:16 <KD19> And the gain.. I think is enormous 19:02:21 <KD19> usually replay communities form 19:02:32 <Belugas> looks like you've got yourself a very good work assigment :) 19:02:36 <KD19> is egladil stopped working on it? 19:02:39 <KD19> sure 19:02:56 <peter1138> yeah, like doom... where a replay lasts 30 seconds... 19:02:59 <Belugas> i do think that egladil has some real life issues as well as a lot of 32bp to work on 19:03:14 <KD19> peter1138 30 seconds? What do you mean? 19:03:26 <KD19> peter1138 games don't last 30 seconds!!! 19:03:40 <KD19> hmm 19:03:42 <peter1138> anyway, i'm off 19:03:45 <Belugas> game != replay... 19:03:53 *** peter1138 [~peter1138@217.151.109.196] has quit [] 19:04:05 <KD19> The point of a replay is to replay the game... 19:04:11 <Brianetta> Ailure: I do what on my server? 19:04:18 <KD19> record chat 19:04:20 <KD19> : ) 19:04:31 <Ailure> Or I thought he did 19:04:46 <Brianetta> I could, but I don't 19:04:56 <Brianetta> well, my IRC client could log it, too 19:04:56 <KD19> Brianetta what is your opinion? 19:05:02 <Brianetta> on what? 19:05:09 <Brianetta> All I saw is the line that had my name in 19:05:13 <KD19> Do you think a replay feature would be good? 19:05:25 <KUDr> KD19: the biggest problem with replay is that it works only with exactly the same game version 19:05:33 <KUDr> like MP 19:05:34 <KD19> KUDr ah : ) 19:05:39 <Brianetta> Replay 19:05:44 <Belugas> KD19, we do have a lot of stuff on our workload. If you think it might be usefull, go ahaed and code it if you want. Nobody's going to stop you. 19:05:45 *** Wolf01|AWAY is now known as Wolf01 19:05:45 <Brianetta> as in, a demo recording? 19:05:52 <KUDr> this is something we can't workaround 19:06:05 <KD19> KUDr I think we can. Let me think about this for a while. 19:06:12 <Ailure> [20:05] <KUDr> KD19: the biggest problem with replay is that it works only with exactly the same game version 19:06:17 <Ailure> That's usually the case with most games 19:06:21 <Ailure> that supports playback 19:06:22 <KD19> KUDr worst case scenario is store version in the replays. 19:06:34 <KUDr> no 19:06:37 <KD19> KUDr (and have seperate playback routines for each version) 19:06:40 <KUDr> it doesn't help 19:06:58 <KD19> ah 19:07:00 <KD19> care to explain? 19:07:09 <KD19> How often is a new version released that breaks the replays? 19:07:10 <KUDr> newer game version have usually different begavior 19:07:30 <KUDr> and you can't make the code compatible with all older versions 19:07:44 <KD19> In another game I keep a patcher around to patch to older versions to watch replays 19:07:46 <KUDr> nighly 19:07:51 <KD19> ah~ 19:08:04 <KD19> That would need some work then. Now I see why it hasn't been done yet 19:08:09 <KUDr> any change to any logic would break it 19:08:33 <KUDr> only comments or formal changes don't influence it 19:08:40 <KD19> hmmmm 19:09:04 <KD19> <haven't looked at the code> 19:09:13 <KD19> logic goes through a central engine, right? 19:09:25 <KUDr> every other changes would then need to be conditional 19:09:36 <KUDr> central engine? 19:09:44 <KD19> hmm 19:09:44 <KUDr> there is nothing like that 19:09:47 <KD19> well : ) 19:09:52 <KD19> I guess waht I am saying is 19:09:53 <KD19> how large % is 19:09:55 <KD19> logic 19:09:56 <KD19> in the code 19:09:57 <KD19> ? 19:10:04 <KUDr> any change in the code could break the MP compatibility 19:10:14 <Belugas> in every corner available ;) 19:10:14 <KUDr> the same it would be with reply 19:10:29 <Belugas> every section of the code has some kind of logic level 19:10:41 <KUDr> 90% of changes are in the logic 19:11:01 <KD19> hm 19:11:19 <KUDr> simply it is impossible to keep it compatible across versions 19:11:33 <KUDr> the cost would be inacceptable 19:11:51 <KD19> I see 19:11:55 <KUDr> and such replay that is broken every night makes no sense 19:11:55 <KD19> it's not as quick a hack as I thought 19:12:02 <KD19> yeah 19:12:35 <KD19> It's not as easy as I figured 19:12:38 <KD19> I will get aquainted with OpenTDD source and look into it personally. 19:12:53 <Belugas> and deeply... 19:13:19 <KUDr> if you bring some usable idea how to cross this problem, we can do 19:13:34 <KD19> hope so ^^ 19:13:40 <KUDr> good 19:14:00 <Belugas> I wonder if the benefits of the feature would outgain the work involvefd 19:14:25 <KUDr> simple replay take not so much work 19:14:34 <KD19> Personally I value a replay feature highly 19:14:39 <KUDr> only the problem is that it would be useless 19:15:15 <KD19> so I will do it myself. Apparently the work involved is large enough that I can't expect anyone else to do it, so I will have to learn the source. 19:15:23 <KD19> I'm positive that we can find a workaround 19:15:42 <KUDr> ok, good luck 19:15:49 <KD19> anyway.. if I fail we are no worse off, right? ; ) 19:15:49 <KUDr> and enjoy it 19:15:59 <KUDr> yes 19:16:07 <KUDr> any idear are welcome 19:16:12 <KD19> I don't really have a clue of the full challenge, since I don't know how openttd works 19:16:14 <KUDr> ideas 19:16:21 <KD19> I can give better status once I learn it 19:16:34 <KUDr> good 19:17:22 <KD19> Basic idea what I'm thinking about now (lot of work) 19:17:34 <KD19> is to build another layer between logic and what happens 19:17:47 <KD19> logic -> chooses action -> action gets executed 19:17:51 <KD19> then you can record the actions. 19:18:25 <KD19> That would require a complete rework of design and every new feature would addition would require extra work 19:18:35 <KD19> but perhaps some abstractions can simplify it a bit 19:18:36 <KUDr> this is how it works already (at least in MP) 19:18:40 <KD19> anyway, I don't know the code at all 19:19:14 <KUDr> so the amount of work is not so big 19:19:27 <KD19> ah if that is true, then logic changes only choose a different action, and you can still record the actions. 19:19:37 <KD19> but when you obsolete an action, you can't throw it out 19:19:41 <KD19> : ) 19:19:44 <KD19> that's the loss 19:19:52 <KUDr> not in SP, but it is easy to switch 19:20:11 <KD19> hmm 19:20:26 <KUDr> in MP mode all actions are serialized and sent to the server 19:20:39 <KUDr> and server distributes it with the frame number 19:20:44 *** tokai [~tokai@p54B80190.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 19:20:51 <KD19> Then what do you mean all changes in logic break replays? 19:21:04 <KUDr> so all clients can execute it at exactly the same game time 19:21:11 <KUDr> yes 19:21:22 <KD19> how do they break it? 19:21:27 <KUDr> any change in logic changes the timing 19:21:38 <Ailure> they do stuff diffrently? 19:21:41 <KUDr> so train can be at different position and so on 19:21:45 <Ailure> and the game won't be the same on all clients 19:22:14 <KD19> KUDr yeah what I mean is, put actions between that too 19:22:21 <KUDr> all clients must do the same actions at the same time and the rest is on the game logic that must be also the same 19:22:23 <Ailure> reminds me on old Doom replays 19:22:26 <KD19> put a layer in between 19:22:26 <Ailure> if you used the wrong version 19:22:33 <Ailure> the desync could be rather funny after awhile 19:22:50 <KD19> Put an abstraction in between, so that you don't break compatibility across versions 19:22:56 <KD19> at least for playback 19:22:58 <KD19> can be a lot of work in some cases though 19:23:13 *** Digitalfox [~chatzilla@bl8-41-193.dsl.telepac.pt] has joined #openttd 19:23:14 <KUDr> it doesnt help to put another layer there 19:23:32 *** tokai [~tokai@p54B84425.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #openttd 19:23:33 *** mode/#openttd [+v tokai] by ChanServ 19:23:38 <KUDr> this layer will never be so smart to corect the logic differencies 19:23:38 <Ailure> well heh 19:23:43 <Ailure> if a replay feature was ever implented 19:24:00 <KD19> KUDr hmmm 19:24:01 <Rubidium> the replay would be broken after a few revisions 19:24:33 <KUDr> yes, this is what KD19 doesn't want to understand 19:24:34 <Ailure> Or rather, old movie files would be heh 19:24:46 <KD19> well, it's no use if they break overnight 19:24:50 <KD19> we have to find a work-around 19:25:06 <Rubidium> KD19: there is no workaround except not changing the code! 19:25:17 <Ailure> yeah 19:25:19 <KD19> Rubidium there's always a workaround : ) 19:25:30 <KUDr> no 19:25:37 <Smoovious> KD19... some things you can't work around 19:25:39 <KUDr> not in this case 19:25:56 <Rubidium> KD19: keeping old routines into infinity is the other one, which is even worse than not changing the code 19:25:58 <Ailure> I woukdn't mind a simple replay feature, but making it work over revisions would require like 19:26:00 <Ailure> 100x more work 19:26:08 <KD19> Rubidium that's worse case : ) 19:26:11 <KD19> worst case 19:26:21 <KD19> I'm thinking about solution~ 19:26:41 <Rubidium> there is no other solution 19:26:47 <Ailure> I might look into it later as well, but i'm not as optimistic about it. :P 19:27:04 <KD19> other solution is create abstraction layer at low level, but that will grow replay size significantly, and it's a lot of work 19:27:25 <KUDr> KD19: you don't need to understand the OpenTTD code to see that it is impossible 19:27:42 <Ailure> Anyway, going for a bit 19:27:49 <Ailure> gonna get some CD-r's 19:27:53 <Rubidium> KD19: oh, you want to make replay as incremental diffs of savegames? 19:28:04 <KD19> hm 19:28:13 <KD19> no~ 19:28:22 <KD19> well depends on how savegames work : P 19:28:25 <KD19> I don't think so 19:28:51 <Rubidium> there is no level between sequential commands and sequential (diffs between) savegames 19:29:03 *** KritiK [Maxim@ppp85-140-204-252.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #openttd 19:30:10 <KD19> this is a challenge, yes. 19:30:16 <KD19> I was very wrong in assuming quick hack 19:31:03 <Rubidium> sequential commands will work perfectly if you replay with exactly the same version 19:31:10 <KD19> yeah 19:31:17 <KD19> but if it breaks overnight it's no use 19:31:55 <KD19> even if people only upgrade between releases, it would be nice to be compatible with old versions 19:34:57 <KUDr> then whole game (all procedures) would need to be there several times 19:35:10 <KUDr> and linked dynamically together 19:35:24 <KD19> KUDr that's the worst case solution 19:35:28 <KD19> it's still possible 19:35:34 <KD19> by using a plugin system 19:35:35 <KD19> and keeping around the old plugins 19:35:38 <KD19> they're not that big 19:35:42 <KUDr> something like that game containing whole SVN history and compiler 19:35:49 <KD19> but.. it's not an elegant solution 19:36:00 <KUDr> it is even not possible 19:36:22 <KUDr> the game would occupy 100GB on your HDD 19:36:22 <KD19> Basically, you could put an interpreter that takes really basic commands, then have a compiler translate the higher level actions to the lower-level commands. This engine wouldn't have to change often, and the logic would only have to emit different low-level commands. 19:36:41 <Rubidium> the nicer solution would be to let the user download the older version to replay a specific replay 19:36:50 <KUDr> yes 19:37:05 <KUDr> do old game replays with old binaries 19:37:13 <Rubidium> KD19: 'really basic command' translates into saving the diffs between savegames between frames 19:37:15 <KD19> Rubidium.. yes that's what I mean. You put the engine in plugins, and when it's an old replay, he downloads the plugin for an old engine (perhaps temporarily) 19:38:47 <KD19> Rubidium really? Aren't you exaggerating a bit : ( 19:39:19 <KD19> For example, flash translates higher level commands into lower level commands, and it's still quite powerful. Flash games can have their logic changed, and flash version changes only rarely. 19:39:20 <Rubidium> no, as a command is translated directly to changes in the savegame 19:39:24 <KD19> Still, it can make very diverse games with powerful logic 19:39:29 *** Desolator [Desolator@86.126.43.192] has joined #openttd 19:41:37 <Rubidium> KD19: those 'lower level commands' would translate to changes to internal structures in OpenTTD. 19:42:24 <KD19> hm 19:44:16 <KUDr> yes, this can work 19:44:24 <KUDr> but would be much more work 19:44:32 <Desolator> has anyone seen my bug report?> 19:44:39 <KUDr> than just catch and save commands 19:44:45 <Desolator> http://bugs.openttd.org/task/604 19:45:20 <KD19> yeah 19:46:34 <KUDr> then it would be good to implement it together with 'undo' commands 19:46:52 <KUDr> as most of the code would be the same for both 19:46:55 * Desolator waits 19:47:06 <KUDr> Desolator: ask Bjarni 19:47:11 <KUDr> it is his part 19:47:44 <Desolator> sent him a query 19:49:07 <KUDr> then you can continue waiting i guess :) 19:51:01 <Desolator> I'm currently talking with him 19:51:08 <KUDr> good 19:51:46 *** XeryusTC [~irc@217.123.58.238] has joined #openttd 19:52:05 <KUDr> hi XeryusTC 19:52:11 <Desolator> Not usre what it might be, all I can say is that YAPF & NPF make the game slows down when I have shis 19:52:13 <Desolator> *ships 19:52:14 <KUDr> how is TE going? 19:52:25 <XeryusTC> KUDr: it is not being worked on by me atm 19:52:31 <XeryusTC> i was working at TRoS though :P 19:52:53 <KUDr> hmm 'TRoS' ? 19:53:06 <XeryusTC> The Realms of Sawan, TE's engine 19:53:09 <Desolator> BTW, who is working on PSB signals? 19:53:12 <KUDr> ahh 19:53:43 <KUDr> Desolator: i think nobody atm 19:54:41 <Desolator> Alright, I'll say here then...the usual signals could be PSB directly 19:55:04 <XeryusTC> Desolator: yes, if you code PBS 19:55:33 <Desolator> With Green, Yellow, Red, red = no pass, yellow = PBS, green = safe 19:55:40 <Desolator> XeryusTC: Wish I knew C++ 19:55:46 <KUDr> this is the expected direction with newsignals 19:56:07 <Desolator> good 19:56:07 <KUDr> that all signals will work as PBS 19:56:36 <Desolator> though they seem unrealistic, yellow makes it be quite realistic 19:57:07 <KUDr> why? 19:57:24 <Desolator> what train driver would pass a danger signak? 19:57:25 <KUDr> you don't have yellow on normal signal in real life 19:57:27 <Desolator> *signal 19:57:31 <KUDr> byt they are PBS 19:57:43 <XeryusTC> KUDr: they do here, it means that the next signal is red 19:57:56 <KeeperOfTheSoul> gives trains time to slow down 19:57:58 <Desolator> Yes, yellow is for cars, but in OTTD cars can't crash in each other, so signals are useless 19:57:58 <KUDr> it is something else 19:58:01 <XeryusTC> which means that the train has to start slowing down 19:58:20 <KUDr> here only few signals have also yellow 19:58:32 <Desolator> PBS would be pretty realistic if trains would slow down and go at reduced speed 19:58:32 <KUDr> as it is useless 19:58:35 <Ailure> I like the idea of yellow signal = train slowing down 19:58:41 *** michi_cc-away is now known as michi_cc 19:58:54 <KUDr> driver can't slowdown if he is not sure that he will need to stop 19:58:59 <Ailure> only becuse seeing faster trains speeding up and stopping competly 19:59:04 <KeeperOfTheSoul> Desolator: why? in reality trains wouldn't ever need pbs since the tracks are only linked in one direction 19:59:04 <KUDr> it would be too expensive 19:59:05 <Ailure> before a slow train 19:59:08 <Ailure> is painful :/ 19:59:48 <Desolator> PBS graphics in TTDPatch look like road rignals :S 19:59:53 <KUDr> Ailure: this needs even different solution 19:59:59 <Desolator> This game me an idea of a truck locomotive! 20:00:00 <Ailure> In reality, trains wouldn't be be able to run through it's own vans ;) 20:00:17 <KUDr> heh 20:00:30 <Desolator> Ailure: True, that makes me have some good funb with a train with 500 20:00:37 <Desolator> *500+ vans 20:00:46 <Ailure> why vans? 20:00:49 <KUDr> true, but then all pathfinders must be 'own wans' aware 20:00:49 <Ailure> why not engines? ;) 20:00:53 * Ailure digs through screenshots 20:01:07 <Desolator> Too expensive when I wanna do that 20:01:37 <Desolator> KUDr, I must say that YAPF rocks, why isn't it for planes? 20:01:45 <Desolator> they go funny on airports 20:01:49 <KUDr> planes? 20:01:52 <Ailure> http://194.47.44.229/openTTD/Denville%20Transport,%2031st%20May%201950.png 20:01:59 <Desolator> yes 20:02:08 <Ailure> I never tried to make it drive into itself though 20:02:14 <KUDr> planes don't use pathfinder 20:02:23 <KUDr> this is made different way 20:02:27 <Ailure> why would they need to? 20:02:31 <Desolator> They should use one...they go funny on airports 20:02:34 <Ailure> they can just go straight to a certain destination 20:02:42 <Desolator> Ailure: LMFAO! 20:02:45 <Bjarni> planes looks at where they are and where they want to go and plot a line, right? 20:03:00 <Desolator> yes, AFAIK 20:03:16 <Bjarni> no obstacles to avoid so a strait line should always be the shortest 20:03:25 <KeeperOfTheSoul> i like the idea of path finding for planes, then towns could institute no fly zones and things :) 20:03:45 <Desolator> but in real-life, planes go directly on the airport, not taking unnecessary paths 20:03:53 <Bjarni> planes would be able to hit each other in mid air, so they need to avoid each other 20:04:02 <Desolator> ships too 20:04:08 <Bjarni> <Desolator> but in real-life, planes go directly on the airport, not taking unnecessary paths <-- no 20:04:12 <Desolator> its' weird to see them passing through each other 20:04:25 <Desolator> Bjarni, I mean stupid patch 20:04:28 <Desolator> *paths 20:04:36 <Desolator> I'll make a screen-shot 20:04:45 *** GoneWack1 [~gonewacko@d130006.upc-d.chello.nl] has joined #openttd 20:04:47 <Bjarni> planes plot a course going from A to B though "corridors", so they go A->C->D->B 20:05:28 <Bjarni> this is used to control the flow of aircraft. If they all move at the same speed and in the same direction, the risk of collisions aren't that great 20:05:53 <Bjarni> but it means that they have to ensure that those corridors do not cross (in the same height) 20:06:15 <XeryusTC> <Desolator> but in real-life, planes go directly on the airport, not taking unnecessary paths <- there are waiting lines at airports, and also waiting spots in mid country 20:07:11 <XeryusTC> there was a plane crash ones because the plane was waiting it mid air for more than 2 hours 20:07:26 <XeryusTC> and it ran out of fuel just before it reached the airport, where it had to wait even more 20:07:58 <KeeperOfTheSoul> that sounds like the pilot didn't notify atc correctly or language problems with atc 20:08:05 <Bjarni> stupid air traffic controller 20:08:06 *** Mucht_ [~Mucht@p57A0DE8C.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 20:08:12 <Bjarni> he should be aware of such issues 20:08:33 <XeryusTC> the pilots said that they needed priority, not that there was an emergency 20:08:35 <Bjarni> language problems could also be a part of it 20:08:41 <XeryusTC> that was the tower controls defence 20:09:42 *** MUcht [~Mucht@p57A0CE6E.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 20:10:27 <KD19> What is the legal status on OpenTTD btw? 20:10:47 <KD19> Even though I despise of copyright law, it is fact, and it seems OpenTTD does infringe it. 20:10:50 <Brianetta> OK, How do I load a scenario from the command line? 20:10:58 <Brianetta> Because RC4 did it OK 20:10:59 <Desolator> here is what i mean 20:11:03 <Brianetta> but RC5? oh no 20:11:17 <Rubidium> Brianetta: nothing should have changed to that 20:11:27 <KUDr> KD19: why do you think so? 20:11:36 <KD19> ah~ 20:11:44 *** GoneWacko [~gonewacko@d130006.upc-d.chello.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 20:11:44 *** GoneWack1 is now known as GoneWacko 20:11:59 <Desolator> ...hmmm...copies link 20:11:59 <Brianetta> hmm 20:12:06 <KD19> It is a deliberate clone 20:12:15 <Desolator> http://tinypic.com/view/?pic=2dj293p here 20:12:18 <KD19> It's very dirty room 20:12:51 <KD19> To do it cleanly, one usually disassembles, write spec, and have another guy work off the spec. That decreases liability significantly 20:12:53 <KUDr> KD19: clone... hmm... hard to prove 20:13:22 <Rubidium> Brianetta: it seems to work for me 20:13:38 <KD19> KUDr actually openTTD history is well documented 20:13:43 * Desolator says the pkanes should take a good path, but also avoid http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tenerrife_dissaster 20:14:02 <KUDr> KD19: we all think so, but it is not enough 20:14:08 <Digitalfox> KD19: I don't think that anyone cares about the legal stautus.. Microprose was bought by another company, and that company doesn't care about TTO or TTD.. 20:14:24 <KUDr> current SVN doesn't contain the original code 20:14:34 *** KD19 [~KD19@tor-irc.dnsbl.oftc.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:14:42 <Digitalfox> KD19: We are talking about a game with 11 years 20:15:06 <Rubidium> KUDr: SVN has never contained original code 20:16:08 <Digitalfox> KD19: And unless some company makes the 10 or 20 aniversary of tto or ttd no company cares more about tt, it's not being sold anymore ( maybe in ebay only ) 20:16:19 *** Desolator [Desolator@86.126.43.192] has quit [Quit: bye] 20:16:36 *** KD19 [~KD19@tor-irc.dnsbl.oftc.net] has joined #openttd 20:16:38 <Rubidium> Digitalfox: that link is wrong, and it was simply human error; starting take off when you do not have clearance 20:16:40 <KD19> oops~ 20:16:44 <KD19> sorry ^^ 20:17:13 <KD19> Is debian still hosting openttd? 20:17:32 <Noldo> still? 20:17:50 <KD19> oh 20:17:53 <Wolf01> gnight 20:17:55 <Digitalfox> Rubidium: I didn't post any link it was Desolator :) 20:17:56 <KD19> has debian ever hosted openttd? 20:17:57 *** Wolf01 [~wolf01@host20-233-dynamic.14-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [] 20:18:05 <Rubidium> oh, sorry :) 20:18:17 <Digitalfox> Rubidium: no problem ;) 20:18:32 <Rubidium> KD19: no, but that is due to the original graphic files 20:18:50 <KD19> yeah 20:18:55 <KD19> that annoys me too ^^ 20:19:04 <KD19> WIP right? 20:20:42 <Rubidium> if someone comes up with a free sprite replacement pack for _all_ sprites in the original files, the problem would be solved 20:22:16 <KUDr> yes 20:22:23 <KUDr> it would be great 20:22:36 <KUDr> then nobody can complain anymore 20:23:10 <XeryusTC> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Avianca_Flight_52 <- that was the plane crash i was talking about before 20:23:15 <Digitalfox> Could things like ttrs3 and other set's work that way?? It would be just like a free sprite replacement.. 20:23:41 <Brianetta> OK, every time I load a game or a scenario I get the title scenario 20:23:43 <Brianetta> Fort Pondworth Falls Transport 20:24:05 <Rubidium> non-ASCII characters in the path and using windows? 20:24:09 <Brianetta> Linux 20:24:14 <Digitalfox> Offcourse the owners would have to gice their permission, but i guess the problem would go away :) 20:24:19 <Digitalfox> give 20:24:38 <Brianetta> svn://svn.openttd.org/tags/0.5.0-RC5 20:25:56 <Rubidium> Brianetta: really strange, as it works flawlessly on my Linux 20:26:08 <Brianetta> Rubidium: I can't get it going properly at all )-: 20:26:13 <Brianetta> This is dediated build 20:26:21 <Brianetta> I might have to just download the binary 20:26:29 <Brianetta> because I've rebuilt it many times now 20:27:08 <Rubidium> well, lets try it with dedicated on my linux (recompile in progress :)) 20:29:26 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r8654 /branches/newhouses/ (123 files in 15 dirs): [NewHouses] -Sync with trunk r8540:r8651. 20:30:44 <XeryusTC> woow :D 20:31:34 <hylje> omg 20:33:11 <Rubidium> Brianetta: it seems to work properly for my dedicated build too 20:33:53 <Brianetta> So why do I keep getting the title screen as the scenario? 20:34:11 <Brianetta> OK 20:34:17 <Brianetta> How did you buildit? 20:34:26 <Brianetta> Because I'm obviously getting something very wrong 20:34:37 <Brianetta> Revision: 8653 20:34:40 <Brianetta> Is that correcT? 20:35:14 <Rubidium> svn info, is the URL tags/0.5.0-RC5, then any revision > 8640 is good (i.e. last changed rev should be 8640) 20:35:28 <Brianetta> Last Changed Rev: 8640 20:35:29 *** Purno [~Purno@5351CF18.cable.casema.nl] has joined #openttd 20:35:46 <Brianetta> Yes, that's the tag 20:38:55 <Rubidium> Brianetta: weird, _very_ weird 20:38:55 *** Twofish [~Twofish@195.204.107.4] has joined #openttd 20:39:47 <Brianetta> Want to take a look? 20:41:21 <Rubidium> why not? 20:41:39 <Brianetta> I need an ssh key 20:41:42 <Brianetta> a public one 20:41:48 <Brianetta> then youlo can jump in 20:41:52 <Rubidium> hmm 20:42:21 <Rubidium> where to get that :) 20:42:39 <Rubidium> ~/.ssh/id_rsa.pub? 20:42:40 <Brianetta> You use ssh? 20:42:42 <Brianetta> yeah 20:42:46 <Brianetta> that's fine 20:42:49 <Brianetta> paste the contents 20:43:04 <Rubidium> http://rubidium.student.utwente.nl/openttd/id_rsa.pub 20:43:33 *** |2rB [~Twofish@195.204.107.4] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 20:43:42 <Brianetta> ok 20:43:46 <Brianetta> autopilot@ppcis.org 20:44:09 * Ailure yawns 20:44:09 <Brianetta> just connect and run screen -x 20:44:30 <Rubidium> someone has a very small screen :) 20:44:37 <Ailure> Bored D: 20:44:51 <Brianetta> I can see what you're doing (: 20:45:09 <Brianetta> You can grow the screen if you like 20:46:15 <Ailure> shit haha 20:46:25 <Ailure> Brianetta freaked me out before I realized what he talked about 20:46:50 <Ailure> Running x-server remotly? Or what are you people doing. D: 20:47:51 *** Sacro [~ben@87.102.80.3] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 20:48:06 <Ailure> and bah, no intresting servers up 20:48:25 *** davis [~rofl@dtmd-4db5ce2b.pool.einsundeins.de] has joined #openttd 20:54:45 <Smoovious> just for sake of conversation, what qualifies a server as 'interesting' to you, Ailure? 20:54:58 <Ailure> newGRF's 20:54:58 <Ailure> D: 20:55:05 <Ailure> I'm bored on the orginal vehicle set 20:55:10 <davis> :s 20:55:10 * Smoovious nods. 20:55:17 <Smoovious> my server is using newgrf's. :D 20:55:32 <Smoovious> and no ships, cuz it makes the game too sluggish 20:55:39 <Ailure> Well I kinda only looked at 0.5.0 with RC5 20:55:50 <Ailure> I thought it only get's sluggish if you turn YAPF for ships on 20:55:52 <Smoovious> ahh. I haven't upgraded yet until the current game ends 20:56:09 <Smoovious> it still gets sluggish if I have it off too... just not as much so 20:56:12 <hylje> :o 20:56:32 <Smoovious> but then I'm using 1kx1k maps too :D 20:56:40 <KD19> ok 20:56:50 <KD19> I'll probably hopelessly fail 20:56:51 <KD19> but I'll give it a shot 20:56:53 <Smoovious> well... 1023x1023 maps (0-1022) 20:57:02 <KD19> you probably have me have me popping in here with questions over the next few months 20:57:07 <KD19> : P cya : ) 20:57:13 *** KD19 [~KD19@tor-irc.dnsbl.oftc.net] has quit [Quit: Chatzilla 0.9.77 [Firefox 1.5.0.9/0000000000]] 20:57:34 <Brianetta> Rubidium: Any thoughts? 20:57:40 <Rubidium> not at this moment 20:57:50 <Smoovious> stab KD19? 20:58:04 <Rubidium> however, not I can reproduce it :) 20:58:27 <Ailure> hehe 20:58:27 <Ailure> reminds me about my classmate 20:58:31 <Ailure> who asked why his game went so sluggish 20:58:49 <Ailure> he was using a 2048x2048 map 20:58:50 <Ailure> xD 20:58:53 <davis> hm i noticed 20:58:54 <Ailure> on a rather crappy laptop 20:58:59 <davis> my nick isnt reserved anymore 20:59:00 <davis> great 20:59:01 <davis> :D 20:59:20 <Smoovious> granted, my running on a P3/733 has something to do with it too, but the ships are just using way more power for pathfinding than everything else combined... so... .. . 21:00:08 <Brianetta> make clean failed to remove all .o files 21:00:12 * Brianetta rms them 21:00:19 <Smoovious> like, running 1000 road vehicles, makes the game crawl compared to early-game... but just a few ships brings it to its knees 21:03:12 *** green-devil [~rendmig@0x573556db.vgnxx6.adsl-dhcp.tele.dk] has joined #openttd 21:03:22 *** Desolator [Desolator@86.126.43.192] has joined #openttd 21:03:59 <Rubidium> Brianetta: looks like it only happens with -D; will investigate it later tonight :) 21:04:15 <Brianetta> Rubidium: Cool; I'll do a random game for now. 21:04:23 *** Sacro [~ben@87.102.80.3] has joined #openttd 21:05:37 *** Desolator [Desolator@86.126.43.192] has quit [] 21:19:17 *** scia [~scia@AveloN.xs4all.nl] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 21:34:08 *** Purno [~Purno@5351CF18.cable.casema.nl] has quit [Quit: Life is a game of pick-up-sticks, played by fucking lunatics.] 21:37:25 <Belugas> byebye, have a nice weekend 21:42:12 <Rubidium> Brianetta: that problem with loading scenarios/games from the command prompt for dedicated servers seems to be in 0.5.0-RC4 and trunk too 21:47:02 *** michi_cc is now known as michi_cc-away 21:55:44 *** tokai [~tokai@p54B84425.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 21:58:22 *** tokai [~tokai@p54B82F93.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #openttd 21:58:26 *** mode/#openttd [+v tokai] by ChanServ 22:04:03 <Rubidium> Brianetta: I found the reason 22:04:42 <Rubidium> it looks like it doesn't load the savegame because the GRFs do not (exactly) match 22:04:42 *** GoneWacko [~gonewacko@d130006.upc-d.chello.nl] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:04:59 *** GoneWacko [~gonewacko@d130006.upc-d.chello.nl] has joined #openttd 22:07:16 <Brianetta> Rubidium: I thought it did a magic load? 22:07:32 <Rubidium> except when in 'networking mode' 22:07:43 <Rubidium> and server apparently is networking mode too :) 22:08:15 <KeeperOfTheSoul> damn those networked servers 22:08:38 *** Osai^2 [~Osai@pD9EB43DA.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 22:10:00 *** GoneWack1 [~gonewacko@d130006.upc-d.chello.nl] has joined #openttd 22:13:16 <ln-> oh, the video is available too: http://www.iltasanomat.fi/videot/?id=1315490 22:15:45 <Brianetta> dbg: [NET] Sync error detected! 22:16:15 <Brianetta> That's what I get when I give up and try to play the title screen 22:16:24 *** GoneWacko [~gonewacko@d130006.upc-d.chello.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 22:16:24 *** GoneWack1 is now known as GoneWacko 22:16:25 <Brianetta> It clearly doesn't load its grfs 22:17:05 <Rubidium> it gives you the title screen as game? 22:18:35 <Rubidium> hmm, it does 22:19:40 *** Desolator [Desolator@86.126.43.192] has joined #openttd 22:19:53 *** Desolator [Desolator@86.126.43.192] has quit [] 22:20:17 *** Desolator [Desolator@86.126.43.192] has joined #openttd 22:20:28 <Desolator> O.o 22:21:30 *** Desolator [Desolator@86.126.43.192] has quit [] 22:32:44 *** Sacro [~ben@87.102.80.3] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:34:55 *** DJ_Mirage [~sexybigge@biggetje.xs4all.nl] has quit [Quit: www.sexybiggetje.nl] 22:41:04 *** green-devil [~rendmig@0x573556db.vgnxx6.adsl-dhcp.tele.dk] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 22:43:18 *** Sacro [~Ben@87.102.80.3] has joined #openttd 22:51:32 *** Osai^2 is now known as Osai 22:52:54 <Brianetta> Rubidium: Hopefully the last release candidate... devs should know better than to put stuff like that in writing! 22:54:10 <Rubidium> well, I don't know what problems might arrive when just continueing to load the savegame when in 'network_server' mode 22:54:42 <Rubidium> but in my opinion, it should just load old scenarios and such for a network server too, i.e. it should only fail for network clients 23:01:57 * Brianetta nods 23:02:17 <Brianetta> Well, if it's any help, it all worked flawlessly in RCs 1-4 23:02:25 <Brianetta> so some backport broke it 23:02:28 *** ThePizzaKing [~jeff@c211-28-162-213.eburwd2.vic.optusnet.com.au] has joined #openttd 23:02:57 <Rubidium> do you have exactly the same GRFs in both directories? 23:03:30 <Brianetta> which both? 23:03:46 <Rubidium> RC4/data and RC5/data 23:04:37 <Brianetta> AV8 was updated, thinking about iut 23:05:26 <Brianetta> but that doesn't help when the server fails to load its own saved game 23:05:45 <Brianetta> and that was an RC5 random game that didn't laod 23:06:01 <Brianetta> so the players are on their second game this evening 23:06:18 <Rubidium> that's very weird 23:06:20 <Smoovious> how long ago was av8 updated? 23:06:21 <Brianetta> I know 23:06:31 <Brianetta> Smoovious: Yesterday, I think 23:06:45 <Smoovious> okee, thanky... >scribbles on his to-do< 23:09:53 <Rubidium> Brianetta: nothing changed with respect to GRFs/loading files _except_ sending and checking the GRF IDs and checksums before downloading the map 23:10:17 <Rubidium> but that does not have any influence on your loading problems 23:13:13 <Brianetta> In which case, I shall just have to get the binary version from the download page 23:13:22 <Brianetta> Not something I've ever done before! 23:13:37 *** Tino|Home [~Tino@i5387D0CD.versanet.de] has joined #openttd 23:14:20 *** ChrisM87 [~ChrisM@p54AC6B2A.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:14:27 <Rubidium> Brianetta: that most likely doesn't solve it 23:15:34 <Brianetta> oh 23:15:38 <Brianetta> well, not to worry 23:16:04 <Brianetta> I'll look at it again tomorrow 23:16:12 <Brianetta> with another new scenario 23:16:55 <Brianetta> So how does it manage to load up the title screen as a scenario? 23:17:14 <Brianetta> Weirder than that, how does it do that after a TGP generation obviously takes palce? 23:19:06 <Rubidium> Brianetta: don't know 23:19:50 <Brianetta> (: 23:20:13 *** TinoM| [~Tino@i5387CFEE.versanet.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 23:20:59 *** e1ko [~L@161.157.broadband2.iol.cz] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:24:14 <izhirahider> TTD had a 'Demo' mode, where we could see how to jump start on the basics. Is there something like this (online or as a patch) for OpenTTD, that I can show someone new to the game? 23:25:44 <Brianetta> No, sorry 23:26:06 *** Neonox [~Neonox@offb-590eaea1.pool.einsundeins.de] has joined #openttd 23:28:43 *** nairan [~Maui_key@p5498CB88.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 23:30:04 *** nairan [~Maui_key@p5498D7E7.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 23:34:52 <izhirahider> I see 23:35:49 <izhirahider> thanks 23:36:38 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r8655 / (76 files in 10 dirs): [32bpp] -Sync r7900:8032 from trunk. 23:36:43 *** Rens2Sea [~Rens2Sea@213.211.185.168] has quit [] 23:40:09 *** Tobin [~Tobin@c58-107-61-130.eburwd7.vic.optusnet.com.au] has joined #openttd 23:41:22 <Sacro> izhirahider: there was a patch actually 23:41:50 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r8656 /branches/32bpp/src/ (316 files in 11 dirs): [32bpp] -Sync r8033 from trunk. 23:50:29 <DaleStan> http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?p=552184#552184 <-- Your brain isn't the only one that hurts, Sacro. 23:52:42 <Sacro> DaleStan: oh im glad :) 23:57:36 <KeeperOfTheSoul> heh, why do so many people think changing an applications language is a trivial task? 23:58:31 <Bjarni> I wondered about that quote (even before it became a quote), but decided to ignore it 23:58:51 <Bjarni> even the basic idea of it hurts 23:58:57 <Smoovious> lets switch to Dibol. :) 23:59:07 <Bjarni> using java.... when we have a perfectly good C/C++ code 23:59:20 <Smoovious> java? 23:59:21 * Bjarni sets Smoovious to ignore 23:59:25 <Smoovious> ick... 23:59:34 <Smoovious> ok, no dibol... how about PL/1? 23:59:48 <Bjarni> try the link DaleStan posted